Piers Morgan Uncensored - “What’s The Point of YOUR Boycott?” Trump State Visit | With Sir Ed Davey & Winston Marshall

Episode Date: September 18, 2025

State visits by world leaders are a ceremonial exhibition of the very best the British state can mobilise, with palatial grandeur, royal pomp, and military tribute, all capped by a glorious state banquet with the King to cement alliances and mutual respect. Trump this week is receiving the honour for a second time - but not everyone wants to get involved in such a historic occasion. Sir Ed Davey, leader of Britain’s third biggest party in parliament, the Liberal Democrats, has rejected his invitation - and joins Piers Morgan to explain why. Then Piers Morgan discusses the state visit with co-host of The Verdict with Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson, host of the Winston Marshall Show, Winston Marshall and former Conservative MP and Trump critic Louise Mensch. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Ground News: Go to https://groundnews.com/PIERS for 40% off the Vantage subscription and find the truth mainstream media doesn't want you to see. Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to meet with a strategist today for FREE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I have not stopped the king, right? Let me take you through my thinking process. Yes, of course this. So you have to start the king. Do you believe that women can have a penis? I've explained that I think the vast majority of people have the same gender. Not people, women. Well, there are men who want to change and women who want to change.

Can women have a penis? So what I'm saying is... Can me or not? Listen, I'm... Why are you squalling? State visits by world leaders are a ceremonial exhibition at the very best of British State. There's palatial grandeur, royal pomp, a military tribute or cat by glorious state banquet

with a king to cement alliances and mutual respect. Well, Donald Trump's visit this week is steeped in historical significance. He's the first leader to receive the honour twice. You might wonder who on earth could possibly choose to miss out on playing a role in such a momentous occasion. The answer is Sir Ed Davey, leader of Britain's third biggest party in Parliament, the Liberal Democrats, who rejected the invitation and joins me now. Sir Ed, Ed, great to have you. Your uncensored debut.

Yeah. Been a while since we had a chat. Your boycotting the state dinner, you're not the first Liberal Democrat leaders to do it. I think Vince Cable, on your predecessors, did the same thing last time. What's the point of your boycott? Let's be clear.

I actually think the state visit of Donald Trump should have happened. Indeed, I argued it. I think that as the first British politician, even before that famous moment in the White House when the Prime Minister gave the invitation from the King to Donald Trump. So I've absolutely pleased that he's here because we need to influence him in any way we can with it.

It's a pomp and ceremony that you were talking about. And I had every intention of going, partly because I respect the king so much. And I've had a huge honour of going to these events on a number of occasions before. But I also know from those events you don't get to talk to the visiting head of state, unless you're on the top table. Here's a secret. I've never been on the top table. And what changed my mind was over the summer when I kept seeing what's happening in Gaza

with the children who are starving and you can see their skeletons with the children who were killed, Cune for Water, and indeed with the emaciated hostages paraded by the appalling Hamas. And I just kept saying, I'm talking to my wife and saying, I've got to do something.

And I've been raising it at Primus's questions because I think our government's not done enough. But Donald Trump is the one man in the world who could do something. He could not only just ring up Netanyahu, but he could ring up the Qatari government and the other governments, the Gulf states, and say, get Hamas to release hostages. Have you? Well, I'm not present in the United States. Have you rung them? Well, I'm not sure they take my call. I think you know that... Well, you were at the state dinner for the Emir of Qatar, right? Yeah, but they have... But no, it's actually quite different.

What's a different? I'll tell you. And I've been to a number of state banquets. Because I believe engaging, as I said, I actually wanted him to come. So why wouldn't you want to engage with the most powerful one? Well, as I said, you don't get to talk to them. Why go to the others? Well, because I support the king, right, and I respect the king very much. Now you don't support the king? No, I've written to him

privately. I'm slightly struggling to follow your consistency. You know you don't ever get to talk to them. Let me help you. But the only person you're not going to go to and you want to publicly boycott is the President of the United States who, by your own admission, is the guy that can actually most affect change. Yeah, because I'm on your show. I don't think You'd have me on your show. I would have had me today if I hadn't done that.

And that's because I want to talk about his power. And he probably watches your show. You're probably one British show that he watches. And I think he, and indeed the wider public and the pressure on this government is why I did this. He didn't know who I am, right? I'm humble enough to know he's not thinking, oh, where's Ed Davy? No, but you have snub the king? No, I haven't.

Well, who does the invitation come from? No, I've written to him privately. Who did he come from, the invitation? He could have to the king. And what did you say in your lesser of rejection? As you know, it's private matter, if you can correspond. But was it specific to back Gaza? Yes.

Okay. And has he replied? No, I wasn't expecting to reply. Listen, I think he knows, because I've been very privileged to have a number of one-to-ones with our monarch. First, when he was a prince, and then now he's head of state. And I think he's someone who respects people's different views and is engaged in the politics. I don't expect him to say anything publicly on this. Of course not.

but I think he will respect my decision and I respect him but I do think the issue is this, Peers, question. How do we get Donald Trump to do the right thing? I think you will agree. You may disagree. Well, I can tell you with a hundred,

and I've known Donald Trump a long time. We've had ups and downs, we've fallen out, we've fallen back in, I've texted with him this morning, very cordial. I can tell you one thing. The leader of a Liberal Democrat Party in the UK publicly boycotting the state dinner. He won't care, of course.

No, no. The only thing he'll think when he sees it is, well, A, you'll say, who is that guy? Then he'll say, he's boycotting me. It's all about me. He's whacking me. Big negative tick against the UK. That's all he'll think. A top UK politician is trying to make a name for himself, getting on the media, you just said,

you're on here because of this, getting on the media to make a point against me, Donald Trump. You know what he's like. everybody knows what he's like. If you'd said to me, how should I do this? I would have said, go to the state dinner. Engage with him and his team as much as you possibly can. You may not get to talk to Trump,

but you can certainly talk to some of his team. Well, that's an interesting point. My experience of statement is certainly someone in my area doesn't get to even speak to the scene. I went to the state dinner in Qatar for Donald Trump, and I had a long chat with him, Elon Musk, Scott Besant, the Emir of Qatar. But you're very special. You're very special. Not really.

Everybody was... Everyone was having a chat. But you've already told me that you've been a big mate of his for years. I've never met him. And the point is not being on your programme. Lovely, though that is, peers. It's great to be on your programme. Of course.

But the issue is Gaza. And what I want to do is I didn't want him to come to this country. And we talked about tariffs and other things and the pomp and ceremony and not know that British people, and I think there are very many, feel that he ought to act. I mean, I think what's happening in Gaza... What do you want him to do? I want him to pick up the phone to Netanyahu

and I want to say, stop the attacks, get the food in, get a ceasefire. I also want him to... Do I agree with him? Yeah. Well, I think most bright people would that he should make that cool. I think Netanyahu's abused the relationship

that he's had with Trump, frankly, and in an outrageous way. But I also think Trump has the power to influence the Qataris and other Gulf states who have a lot of influence on Hamas. So he's uniquely placed in the world to talk to both sides, to get action on both sides.

I don't disagree with any of that, and I don't disagree with what your view is of the current situation in Gaza. I'm just curious why, knowing how thin-skinned Donald Trump could be, why would you want headlines, you know, Sir Ed Davy, leader of Liberal Democrats,

snubs the king and Trump? First of all, he... The king, by the way, is currently battling cancer. So you've chosen a moment to snub the king when he's very sick, but he's still getting up there to go and do this. and you're snubbing Donald Trump, and that's the only headline that's going to come out.

And I don't think he's going to have anything like the effect you think it is. Well, first of all, I'm humble enough to know that he doesn't know who I am, doesn't care. And the fact I've got liberal and Democrat in the name of my party probably means he's not what he knows. I'm not one of him, right? So that's fine, fine. But I have to question you on snubbing the king. I have not snub the king. But the invitation came from the king, right?

Let me take you through my thinking process. Yes, of course it is. So you have stopped you. But as you told you, I've written to him in private, and I've had the real honour of meeting him on a number of occasions. Did you apologise in the lesson? Let me, let me... Did you apologise?

I did say sorry, I wanted to come, let's be clear, but for the reason I set out that I didn't feel I could accept the invitation this time. But here's the point. I really, really wrestled with this one because of my respect for King Charles III. I talked to my wife about it over the summer in detail. I prayed... I had to be a Christian.

I prayed... about it because it was one of the more difficult decisions I've made. I don't rush to these sorts of decisions, not the way I do politics. I actually advocate for him to come, right? So quite different from, I think, how? But that's what I don't quite understand. Again, you're happy he's come. Yeah.

You're happy that Keir Stama arranged for him to have this state visit. That's all right. You're happy with all this. That's all correct. Absolutely. But when he comes, you, Ed Davy, your contribution to the UK welcoming the most powerful man in the world with all the machinery, as all the pomp and summary is rolled out by the Royal Party. I've never seen the Royals do this for anyone, quite the way they've done it for Trump today.

Your only contribution is to stick a massive two fingers up at it. Well, let me take you through the argument again, if I may. I know the argument, but that's how it's going to be portrayed. I've agreed with everything you've said, right? Everything said about my permission, but this one thing. I know, having gone to a number of state banquets, that I wouldn't have had a talk with the President, where I wouldn't have talked to his senior entourage.

I've had a nice time. It's lovely. I really enjoy them. But I'm saying that I don't want to go to that because I want a debate in this country. Debate with you. A debate in other media that I've had the privilege of view. Can I throw a quizzical spanner into these words? You're bound to. In opposition, I remember Keir Stama, 2018, Trump does not understand the words humanity and dignity. David Lamy, who is, obviously, was foreign secretary, very recently, wrote in 2016. I will be on the streets protesting racist and KKK neo-Nazi sympathizer Trump.

Yvette Cooper, our new foreign secretary, said on X in 2019. So appalled Theresa May has given this man a red-carbid platform to do this. Doesn't help Britain to be lavishing pomp on a president so determined to be divisive, childish and destructive. Now, last time I checked, Kiyosthama, David Lammy and Yvette Cooper have been competing in a sycophancy competition that we're now looking at. grasping the evil man's hand. And doing the complete opposite. I mean, last night, Yvette Cooper, look at this. I mean, 11 seconds with Yvette Cooper,

fawning like Baudrick. I mean, it was one of the most excruciating things I think I've ever watched. Watch. I mean, it goes on, watch. Count. This is the Yvette Cooper who said, I'm appalled.

Theresa May has given this man a red carpeted platform, etc., etc. So my cynical part of me says, all very well, Sir Ed, because you're not in power. But if you actually were in power, would you just be another one of these turncoat toadies

who would suddenly abandon all their thoughts about this and say, oh, President Trump, let me grovel for you. That's why I'm not here to defend the Labour government. It was nausea, do you think? Well, they can speak for themselves. 11 seconds? Here's my point as a leader of an opposition party.

My job really is to influence the government of the day. That's my job because they're the ones who have the conversations, the meetings with President Trump. And I want them to raise the issue of Gaza. I want them to raise the issue of the hostages because he has the power to get the hostess release and to end the humanitarian crisis. And therefore, this is my way if I put more pressure on the government. I've done it at PMQs. I've done it in Parliament. I think in the media, coming on your show and other things, helps ratchet that pressure on our own government.

that's the way I think opposition parties, responsible opposition parties. And to those who say it's just an opportunistic PR stunt, Sir Ed? Well, I disagree with them entirely. If they knew me and knew how hard I've wrestled with this, they wouldn't say that at all. Do you like Donald Trump? No. What do you dislike about it? Well, I don't know him as a person.

You're the one knows him as a person. The bits that I don't like are his policies, particularly, you know, I'm a British, politician, my jobs look off of my constituents and our country. Which policy, don't you like? Well, there are three major wars? Well, let me just throw some at you. Tariffs. He believes in strong... Well, hang on. Tariffs.

Okay, but strong... I'm giving you one. Hang on. I'm also giving Ukraine. I'm also giving you guys. I've got you three major issues. You can be others, but I actually like an American president who wants to forge peace, not war, personally. But let me ask you, do you agree with strengthening... Do you agree with strengthening a border? Yes, of course.

Do you agree with fewer foreign wars? But Do you agree with fewer foreign wars? I've opposed wars in the past, absolutely. So you basically agree with them? Do you agree on the Iraq war, by the way, because I opposed the Iraq war? I opposed it. Well, I'm glad we agreed on that one. Absolutely.

So I'm not being inconsistent at all. What I do disagree, as a British politician, looking after people who vote for me, is a President of the United States who, unlike any of his predecessors, Republican or Democrat, has put tariffs on our country and hit our country economically. Surely, peers, surely it's my right to speak, and my duty, to speak up for my country. Of course. So that's why I don't like him. What do you feel about the issue of trans women and women's sport?

Because he's banned it. Yeah, I think it's up to the sporting bodies. What do you feel personally? Yeah, I think it's up to the sporting bodies. Would you agree with it? Well, I can imagine some sports where it's very, very difficult. Do you imagine a sport where it isn't difficult? Chess.

There's a lot of sport. It's a board game. Can you imagine an Olympic sport? Let me ask you. But I will leave, this is my answer to you. What's your answer? I will leave it to the sporting bodies to make their decisions. I think politicians who get involved in all that sort of stuff are arrogant, frankly.

Well, in May 20203, you told LBC that women quite clearly can have a penis. Well, actually, I didn't say that. What did you say? I was responding to a question. What I actually said was that the vast majority of people identified with the same gender they had at birth. but there are a few who don't. So do you believe, for the record, do you believe women can have a penis? For over 20 years, we've had a Gender Recognition Act, which has said that people who want to change their gender can do so.

And that's been cross-party. And I think this is a difficult issue. It's actually not that difficult. I think there's a lot of toxicity. I'm sure there is. But do you believe that women can have a penis? I've explained that I think the vast majority of people have the same gender. Not people, women.

Well, there are men who want to change and women who want to change. Can women have a penis? So what I'm saying is... Well, can they or not? Listen, I'm asking my question. I'm not squirming at all. I'm giving the answer that I actually gave on LBC, and the answer I gave on LBC was this.

That if you have a different view of your gender from your biological sex at birth, then the Gender Recognition Act gives you that right. But the vast majority of people, as you know, Peters, have the same job. gender as a by and I don't believe that any women can have a penis. You seem to think that some can. Well, I go back to what the law says.

The law is really clear. It's one of the reasons why when the Supreme Court made its ruling, which some people didn't like, I said we accept that ruling. So you now accept women can't have a penis? I accept the ruling of the Supreme Court really clearly. I expect the gender recognition out. Notwithstanding what you feel about Trump,

do you understand people watch this kind of exchange? And they go, what is he talking about? And they understand with Trump... I'm talking about the law. And Trump just goes, actually, men and men are women. And you know what? No more trans athletes in women's sport.

That's it. And they think if you were running the country, what would you do? Ed Davies. I don't think politicians should get involved in something. You do get involved in it. Well, listen, I think there should be debates on the laws. And one of the things I've said after the Supreme Court,

ruling which I've said, is because of some of the issues that are raised in that, because it actually says transgender people's rights should be protected. I've read the 80-paid ruling of the Supreme Court. Do women in your family agree with it, that women can have a penis? Listen, people in my family agree with the law, and the law, whether there's gender recognition act, they call his act, or the Supreme Court's ruling on how those two acts relate together.

My wife's a lawyer, and she believes them holding the law. Have you ever met a woman with a penis? No. There we go. What does that tell you? But the point I'm making is, as a legislative... who makes the law. My only point to you for doing this. I'm not trying to get the law.

I'm not trying to go to you. It's just, I just feel like this whole woke thing about particularly in the trans issue. And I support trans people's rights to fairness, equality, safety. So do I. We're in total agreement. A hundred percent. But you have to start from a position of understanding biology and basic science, which is men and men, women are women. Women don't have penises.

It's interesting you say that because actually that's the answer I've given you. I've said you start with the bylaw... So why can't you just be bold enough to go, you know what? I've thought about my answers. Like Sekeir. Sequeer went from saying the same kind of stuff as you,

then he went to 99% of women don't have penises, and eventually he agreed, none of them do. You seem to be still hesitant on the exact percentage of women who have penises. Quite the contrary. What I'm telling you... What percentage do you think do? What I'm telling you is the law of our country, and I uphold the law of our country.

It's one of the reasons why some people didn't like... The law of the country is now that men are men and women are women. The law of the Supreme Court says on the basis of the Equality Act and the Gender Recognition Act. And having read their ruling, I think we should stick to their ruling. So what does that mean, though? But it does actually leave a number of issues which the regulators are going to put right. I've actually said we should have a full debate about this in Parliament

because the Supreme Court... But what's the debated? Well, in how you make sure that the transgender... gender people and people, women and men who don't, whose biological sex are the same as the gender they have, their rights should be debated to make sure we uphold all people's rights. One thing I'm sure you agree with is we want a society where we don't have toxic debate, where we look after all people fairly, just as you said, and I completely agree with what you said about. Do you know what creates toxicity though when you think that it's okay for biological men to compete in women's sport or go into women's spaces?

Well, I think... That is toxic to many women. Women are like, hang on, no, hang on. But I also think you should bring in the sporting bodies, don't you? No. I think you just do... No. I think there's a reason. Why do you think we separate the sexism in the Olympics? Well, I think the Olympic authorities with a sporting body should make the decision.

But why do you think we separate them? The sporting bodies do, and I uphold that. But why is the Olympics men and women? Because they have different attributes. And the point is... The point is... Do you accept that men have a superior... physical advantage. Of course they do.

Well, isn't that the answer? Well, but sporting bodies sometimes say invest in the... But if you were Prime Minister, why wouldn't you just tell the sporting bodies, this is what we're doing? See, what people want, and why people gravitate to Trump. They may not like him personally. They may not like the way he says things, but they quite like Trumpism

in the sense of the common sense kind of view he has of these things, where he just goes, this is obviously ridiculous. Men are men, women are women. And no, you can't have trans athletes in women's sport. And people voted in the vast... But here's the thing here. People, having thought about Trump for four years out of office, they voted him back in bigger numbers.

Because actually that kind of went, yeah, that makes sense. And I look at you and I think, here's a guy, career politician, desperate to be prime minister one day, or why bother? And when I'd just ask you a basic biology question. I talk about the law. You're like floundering over it. I'm not floundering at all. I'm just talking about the law.

And I thought, surely, that's what you would expect a law maker to do. But the law is clear now in this country. It's settled. Yeah. And I've said I'd be support the Supreme Court. Court judgment. But when I say to you, can women have a penis, you should just say no. Well, the Supreme Court judgment actually

has different interpretations, and we need to make sure that in Parliament we discuss... But the interpretation I make from your refusal to say that is that you think they probably can. No, I think that's wrong to draw that. So they don't? It's wrong to draw that conclusion. What I have said is the Supreme Court has explained how the

Gender Recognition Act and the Equality Act work together. I get it. And I think that's right. But as I'm sure you also... accept because of your support for transgender rights, which I applaud you for, that we should have that debate in Parliament. Can they? Have the debate in Parliament? No.

Can women have a penis? Last chance. I want them to have that. Last chance to answer. Well, I think I've answered. I think your views will see I've answered according to the law. I don't think the viewers have got a clue what you think. Well, let's see.

We'll say. We'll have a poll. Ed Dave, you're good to see you. Lovely to see you. Come back soon. It's not just how the news is told, but what's left out, which concerns me. And when a friend of the business recommended I try ground news, I gave it a go. Quite honestly, I was impressed.

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So don't wait for the next IRS letter. Call 800-958-1000 or visit tnusa.com slash peers. That's tnusa.com slash peers for expert help on your tax. Well, joining me with an alternative view of this historic state visit, our Ben Ferguson, the co-host of The Verdict with Ted Cruz, Winston Marshall, host of the Winston Marshall Show, Louise Munch, former Conservative MP and Trump Critic. Welcome to all of you.

Ben Ferguson, let me start with you. This is a man who wants to be the next Prime Minister of the UK. What do you think? Oh, you're on mute, Ben. You're on mute. Skeleton free man right there. That's what you just witnessed. A guy that's like, I don't believe in anything,

just to like me to something. and then we'll debate it in Parliament instead of giving you my opinion on it. I've seen squishy leaders before Pierce, Pierce, but that's got to be the squishest leader I've seen in 2025 in the UK. So congratulations, golf clap for that guy. Like, we debate if they have a penis or not. Like, I was waiting for you to ask him, like, would you make out with a chick that has a penis? Like, I just like, I don't know how much more you got to be blunt with a guy like that. But the idea that we have to wait until we get to parliament to give you my opinion, isn't that what elections are supposed to be about?

And this is the demise of the left, not just like in the U.S. where I am, all over the world. If you can't define what a woman is and then you say when you're pressed on it, well, we have to have a debate, well, I'm going to defer to the court system. Then why are you a politician? What, like, what is the point of voting for you? And also, I do think, and I'll bring Louise in here as the, I believe, still self-identifying woman. You know, that was sort of fascinating to watch Ed Davy, squirm so much and just still refused to just come out and say it, even though it's now settled law in the UK.

And this guy, you know, he does want to be Prime Minister. What did you make of it? Well, this is the Liberal Democrats, peers. No fence left unsat on. You gave him five minutes to answer a simple question. Do you believe it? I almost were sitting there going, for God's sakes, man. Say that biological women can't and trans women can,

if that's your position, but just tell the truth. Of course, Women do not have a penis and men don't have a womb. And I'm always struck by how close we are to Monty Python's life of Brian, where some going, Stan can't have babies, but he can have the right to have babies. I really hope President Trump wasn't watching that part of your show, because what is he going to think? I was cringing, to be quite frank with you.

Well, and also, I mean, Winston, when I was talking him through the U-turns that all the Labor, government top people have done on Trump, I mean, it is quite entertaining because they've all trashed him for years in opposition, exactly as Ed Davy. Actually, he was a bit more circumspect about Trump, but they all do this in opposition. But the moment they get a whiff of power, actual power, the genuflecting knows no bounds. And I thought Yvette Cooper's 11-second hand clasping last night at Stansted Airport was really quite something.

What should we make of this? Well, I mean, I make of it that none of these people had any principles. that we shouldn't actually take their word for anything. Although I will say, I was a little pleased that they actually acted like adults finally when they came to power. And there's not much support for the Stama government at the moment on many metrics or any,

although it seems that maybe on his behavior at the world stage, he's been a little bit better. But I've got to talk about Sir Ed Davie. That was absolutely hilarious. And I think that why is it that we only hear about this guy and indeed the liberal Democrats, when he's making a total pratt of himself on the national scale. He actually was dishonest with you.

He said that he didn't say quite clearly women have penis, but Nick Ferraria and LBC did ask, so a woman has a... Well, actually, you know what, we've got the clip now, which I wish I'd had at the time, because it was... I knew it was right. Let's play the clip. I think we need to manage this and think about it

and debate it with a bit more maturity and a bit more compassion. Well, that's what Sakea Starmer once said to me, And he never did answer the question, can a woman have a penis? Well, I've just answered that question. They can. Listen, I've made it really clear that if people, the vast majority of people, will have the same gender as their biological sex, but a small number won't. So a woman can have a penis?

Well, quite clearly. Quite clearly. Yeah. I mean, literally, he literally said it and then sat here and had the brass neck to say, I never said it, which is the other great train of politicians. You know, you really actually, the key thing in this whole situation is that he snubbed the king. He's not that he snubbed Trump. He snubbed the king. I agree.

And that's the thing why this is so embarrassing and actually a little bit humiliating for him. There's another bit a dig he made in your interview where he sort of implied that Trump was neither a liberal or a Democrat. I remind you and your listeners that this, Davey, campaigned against Brexit. He campaigned for the EU to have more sort of. over, or rather, for Britain to have less sovereignty. And after Brexit, i.e. nearly 10 years since, he has campaigned against the democratic will of the British people. So he had quite some gall there to accuse Trump of being neither liberal nor democratic. And I'd also like to point out his point about the tariffs.

Now, it is the case that Trump has given Britain a very favourable deal in the tariffs. He gave us a deal before he's, he hasn't even finished a deal with the Europeans yet, the EU yet. And he gave us a 10% deal, which is far more preferable nations around the world. And if Ed Davey took the care to understand why Trump was putting in the tariffs, the whole objective was to help the working people of America, to re-industrialize America to bring onshore back jobs. He might understand that the same problems we have in Britain, the same problems we have in Britain.

There are working people in Britain that over the last 40, 50 years, have had their jobs taken away from. we've offshored a lot of manufacturing, a lot of jobs. If he understood that, he might actually think that such a policy might be suitable here. You know, it's interesting, Louise. I mean, I think you're not in favour of Trump getting all the pomp ceremony of a second state visit. Is that right? Not at all. That is completely wrong.

I'm a dual citizen. I've got two hats on here. As an American, I find it frankly offensive that Ed Davy thinks he can tell us who we elect. as a sovereign choice. And let me say that I voted for Carmel Harris. I am not a Trump supporter. I'm not trying to rewrite history here. But really, that's a sovereign choice of the American people.

Keep your nose out of our business, Mr. Liberal Democrat. As a British citizen, I am ashamed and embarrassed that the leader of one of our still major parties thinks it's a good idea to boycott the president of the United States. This is a state visit. He has his presidential head of state hat on. It is rude. I don't agree with.

you that the important thing is that he's snubbing the king. The king will get over it, quite frankly. I think the important thing here is that he's snubbing President Trump on a visit, which is very, very important to the UK for the reasons that your other guest just gave. The king exercised soft power so well when he wrote to President Trump and continued that correspondence while President Trump was out of office. That was a massive exercise of soft power, which has paid huge dividends for the United Kingdom. And if President Trump is watching, you are so welcome here, Mr President, and I would say that about any President of the United States.

If people could just wind their neck in and keep their toys inside the pram, that would be great. In terms of Yvette Cooper, I think you're a little harsh. Look, time, great healer, lousy beautician. Like J.D. Vance, she's really got to understand that she is in government now, that she's changed her opinion. And what we don't need is British politicians insulting the President of the United States.

Well, I agree. I don't disagree. It was the scale of the sycophancy, the 11-second hand-clasping and slight genuflecting. Ben, my apologies for misrepresenting at the start there, Louise. I thought you were going to be critical, but you weren't. Ben, let me see. You know what's interesting, Ben, about the Trump-so visit. A, very few protests. I mean, literally, just a handful of people running around with silly black cars, right?

Last time, Mahem when he came in the first term. So I think there's a definite change of attitude towards Trump in the UK. Interesting, the Economist magazine came out this week. I said that whilst UK people generally don't like Trump personally very much, they are gravitating more and more to Trumpism. And that's why I went through some of the issues with their Davey. Now, 36% of Britons actually think that Trump's Trumpism, you know, his policies, the way he sees the world,

they agree with it, which is significantly higher than the number who like him personally. And this goes to my general whole belief. You don't have to like Trump personally. to like what he does. Look, I think now he's also a very different man than he was in 16. You were around him in 16, so is I.

I think he's looking at the world differently. I think he's got the right people around him that are helping him. I think he generally wants to make sure that we're not starting wars, but we're making sure that people are safe and people are free and that people can say what they believe in and disagree with and have a grand debate.

I also think that he understands that you need to have great relations with countries like the UK. I go back to your guest a moment ago, And look, real leaders show up and they lead. Fake leaders try to make a moment that they should be in the room, a moment about themselves, and try to raise their name ID. He did that, but I'll make a prediction here. He will not be the man who leads the UK moving forward if this is all he has to offer.

Because great leaders understand that if you want to be in the room with other great leaders to get deals done that are great for your country and you show up for work, you don't run, away from work. This is, I would argue, one of the biggest nights of work for both countries. You get in that room, you talk to each other, you build foreign relationships with one another, and then you have the groundwork and the foundation for other great things moving forward. And by the way, we don't know when the UK and the U.S. are going to have to be like this on a national security issue again, like we were after 9-11. The leaders in that room, they're the ones that can trust each other, and the ones that aren't there, they're putting their national security at risk as well.

So be a Yahoo, but great leaders show up whether you're a liberal or a conservative when things need to get done. And tariffs right now, this is the most important thing I think in the UK. It's also extremely important in the U.S. Why would you not want to be in that game? I agree, I agree.

Get in the damn game or quit your job. The other thing, Winston, I think, I'm really exercised about and I hope this comes up during this visit from Donald Trump, but also Kirstaum, it's free speech. You know, it seems to me... You've got a problem with the UK right now.

Well, there's a problem in America, too, Ben, with respect. You just had Charlie Kirk murdered for his speech, right? We had a comedian arrested by armed police for cracking jokes on social media. That was appalling. But what happened to Charlie Kirk is immeasurably more appalling. And Winston, it goes to the heart of what a democracy is. You know, you either believe a democracy is based on a bedrock of freedom, freedom of speech and freedom of expression in particular, or you don't.

And it seems to me people have lost that ability to understand what free speech actually is. Well, the famous example here, I think, is you're referring to Attorney General Pam Bondi, who said over the last couple of days that there's free speech and there's hate speech. Now, I will note that almost everyone on the American right has come out and criticised Bondi for that comment. She walked it back on social media as well. Trump himself gave a pretty woolly response, actually. I didn't think it was a very good one, but it might be that he didn't land either way.

Her talking about hate speeches is exactly why Britain is in the mess that it is. We have had basically 60 years of hate speech laws accreting, which have culminated, as you say, of Graham Linehan arrested upon arrival for three jokes that he posted on X. I would say generally the Trump administration have been better on free speech in Britain's free speech woes than our own government. And not only has J.D. Vance called out those who have been arrested in Britain for silent prayer, but they sent a secret delegation. The Telegraph reported on this,

they sent a secret delegation to Britain to investigate the silent prayer issue that we've had. You remember at the various meetings, Trump's, it wasn't a state visit. It was a holiday visit up to Scotland about two months ago. Again, that came up. It came up when Bev Turner of G. G.B. News was on the, Air Force One return flight. They had a conversation that came out about Lucy Connolly, the woman who was sentenced to 31 months for tweets after the 2024 riots. It does seem that the Americans understand Britain and Europe's free speech issue better than we do here. This whole issue of free speech is incredibly important, isn't it? Yes, it is. Absolutely. Look, as I've said before, Charlie Kirk, obviously I did not agree with his views, but nothing bad should have happened to him.

And it is so sad that when he was killed, he was there under the slogan, Change My Mind. He was advocating for debate, and that is what is so important. And Trump is, to be fair to him, a real champion of free speech. And hopefully he can influence us in a good way during this state visit. I'm sure that he will bring it up. And he'd be right to do so. Nigel Farage is right to bring this up in the United States. We always used to have free speech in this country.

we should not have laws that criminalize hate speech. If I were in government, I would repeal them. They have been nothing but trouble. We have the armed police arresting a comedian, Graham Linnaham for jokes, by the way, about trans issues and taking him off a plane with guns drawn, and yet we cannot get the cops to come round and police shoplifting, which is an all-time high in the United Kingdom.

It's policing political speech. Yes. That's the problem. It's the political speech. These laws have been abused. And this is where I think the president. Tweets are worse than theft, apparently, according to this government and according to the Metropolitan Police. That has to change.

And what we really need is a wholesale reform of the law. We need to get rid of the law that criminalizes hate speech. In the United States, racism, although bad and condemned, is very specifically protected by the First Amendment. If you want to be an idiot, go ahead and be an idiot. Unless you are inciting violence, that's right. Unless you're citing violence, inciting murder, that's not going to be an idiot. covered. Apart from that, all speech ought to be legal and then let your ideas condemn you. And by the way, that doesn't mean you're not accountable for what you say. So if you're a teacher,

if you're a teacher and you want to glorify in the murder of a young man, it may be that your school board decides you should not be a teacher. And most people would agree with that. That's called accountability. It's about government. It's accountability for your actions, but that applies not just to your speech, but your general behaviour and actions. My panel, I thank you all very much. I'm glad you were here to witness the interview with a man who would be our next prime minister. And Pierce, Pierce, I just want to be clear.

You do know that women don't have penises, right? I just want to make that very clear. I'm just going to check. You're a bigger. We're all clear, but I'm fairly sure that the leader of a liberal Democrats is a little confused. Thank you all very much.

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