Piers Morgan Uncensored - “You Know NOTHING!” Prince Andrew Under FIRE After Epstein Claims In Virginia Giuffre Memoir

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

The Royal Family hoped this week would be about history - King Charles and the Pope, the head of the Church of England praying with the Pontiff for the first time since the Reformation. But that moment has been overshadowed by another royal scandal. Global headlines are once again dominated by Prince Andrew and his ties to Jeffrey Epstein. From revelations that Andrew stayed in contact with the convicted sex offender, to explosive new claims in Virginia Giuffre’s memoir - the controversy continues to deepen. As questions grow over the Epstein Files and the powerful figures still shielded from accountability, fresh scrutiny is also falling on the monarchy. Who is funding Andrew’s lavish lifestyle at the 30-bedroom Royal Lodge? And why can’t even the King strip him of his title? Two years on, the question remains: will Prince Andrew ever come clean - or will he spend the rest of his life in isolation and disgrace? Piers Morgan is joined by host of The Nerve, Maureen Callahan, constitutional expert, author and historian Sir Anthony Seldon, one of Epstein’s victims Rina Oh and Stephen Lynch, Massachusetts Congressman. Then, things get heated when Piers is joined by a panel of journalist and host of The Tara Palmeri Show, Tara Palmeri, royal correspondent Katie Nicholl, author of The House of York, Andrew Lownie, spokesman for the Maxwell family, Brian Basham, and US journalist Michael Tracey. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Mando: Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code PIERS at https://shopmando.com! #mandopod Birch Gold: Visit https://birchgold.com/piers to get your free info kit on gold. Oxford Natural: To watch their full stories, scan the QR code on your screen or visit https://oxfordnatural.com/piers/ to get 70% off your first order when you use code PIERS. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the book, she references several men, former gubernatorial candidate in a Western U.S. state, former U.S. senator, the prime minister. What are two adults, okay? Glenn Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein doing traveling around the world, okay? I have no idea, and it's totally irrelevant. Traveling around the world with somebody else his child. You're linking things together to suit your case. Postumously, she has opened up Pandora's books.

has nothing to hide, then he absolutely needs to be investigated. Prince Andrew, I told you when you got on the gravy train and started to write about him that he was innocent and I sent you evidence that he was innocent. I'm not. I didn't believe your evidence. I tested your evidence and it didn't add up. You know what, Brian, here's the problem with your stoic defence of Prince Andrew. I'm not defending Prince Andrew. Hang on. I carry no brief to Prince. Okay, fine.

I think he's a piece of shit. The Royal Family sorely wanted this week to be about King Charles and the Pope, or the talk, was supposed to be about a moment of history. The head of the Church of England, a leader of 85 million Anglicans worldwide, praying publicly with the pontiff for the first time since the Reformation 500 years ago. Instead, that now looks like a footnote, and the reality could scarcely be in grave of contrast. Global headlines are dominated again by Prince Andrews close ties to the paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein.

First we learned that Andrew lied about staying in contact with Epstein after his conviction. Then came claims in a posthumous memoir by Virginia Dufray, whose claims of abuse by Andrew led to a $12 million settlement. It wasn't just unwanted sex, she wrote, but an orgy with eight other young girls. And when the media began unraveling the scandal, Andrew asked a police protection officer to dig up confidential dirt on Virginia so nobody would believe her claims. The big picture here is, of course, the Epstein files. Many more stories of shocking misdeeds by powerful men remain censored by systemic failure to deliver the transparency of justice that was promised.

And transparency and justice are the issues at hand for the monarchy too. Who exactly is paying for Prince Andrew to live in the 30-bedroom royal lodge with its sprawling 100-acre estate in Great Winter Park? How can it be that even the king has no power to deny him a title of prince? And what more does Andrew know that could help bring others to justice? Andrews ever show much interest in remorse,

I don't expect he'll ever say anything to criminate himself either. But that doesn't mean he can't sit down with the authorities and say, I didn't break the law, but this is who and what I know. Coming clean is surely Andrew's last and only option. The alternative is that he lives out his life and years in solitude and shame and disgrace. What do you want me to discuss all this is Maureen, the host of the nerve? Maureen, you've been writing some pretty excoriating stuff about this, and rightly so.

This is a scandal that gets bigger by the day. and at the center of it in terms of press attention right now is Prince Andrew, who was until recently one of the heirs to the throne. It doesn't get more serious really for the UK or the monarchy. It does not, and I think that's why you're seeing, on both sides of the Atlantic, a resounding cheer to who we all know was the muscle moving Prince Andrew out of the royal family as best he could.

Prince William, who is really showing what he is made of, his metal, and what he will be like as king. As an aside, I think that was also a warning shot fired across the bow to Harry and Megan and Montecito. Keep it up. You're next. Now, the question really is, what, if any, fallout will Virginia Jufreuse posthumously published memoir bring about? I don't know about you, peers, but the longer the skin. candle drags on and really, yes, Andrew will live out the rest of his days in shame and disgrace. As you said, who really is paying for him to live in Royal Lodge? Reports have it that he hasn't paid rent on that place since he moved in in 2003.

Who is subsidizing it? I fear that no man will ever be held to account. Right. I mean, that to me is the nub of this. Epstein took his life if people believe the official version. Others are skeptical. but he died before he could be held accountable. The only person languishing in jail because of his scandal is a woman, Gilay Maxwell.

I interviewed David Boyes recently, who's Virginia Juffray's lawyer, top criminal lawyer in America for many, many decades. He says there are a number of men named in these files who he thinks should be criminally prosecuted. Well, who are they? And why are we not being told this? In the book itself, she talks about all sorts of people being involved with, without naming them, one of whom is apparently a former prime minister of a country.

Right? Now, the sort of rumor mill is swirling about who that is. But these are, you know, it doesn't get more high-powered in terms of a potential criminal who she says raped her than a former prime minister. And yet here we are with a lot of these files still remaining unopened to the public. You know, it really, so to your point in the book, she references several men, not by name. but with enough just enough you know the a former gubernatorial candidate in a western u.s. state anybody who's been paying attention to this scandal knows exactly who that is a former u.s. senator same the prime minister same that name is swirling around social media everyone knows who it is

and she says in the book he raped her so savagely she was left bleeding from every orifice and she She went to Epstein and tearfully begged him, never ever please make me have relations with that man again. I mean, she was raped. And he says to her, you know, sometimes that's what she got. It's the cost of doing business. We're on the heels of the Diddy trial here in the States. Did he got a slap on the wrist.

He was acquitted of the most serious crimes against him, despite all of us having seen the video of him savagely beating Cassie and dragging her back to a freak off. none of the very powerful, rich, famous men and women who were alleged to have engaged in those freak-offs with Diddy, their names never even surfaced. Not a single one wound up with a subpoena to appear in court. It's enough to make you despair. It really is.

And I would just like to say, finally, you know, whether you believe Virginia Jouffre committed suicide or not, I believe these men killed her regardless. Well, she certainly had a very tormented life. A very sad, tormented life. It was tormented before she met Epstein. It was massively exacerbated by her time in his clutches. What should Andrew do now?

I mean, it seems to me we're now into the drip, drip, drip, death in terms of public reputation by 1,000 cuts from these leaked emails from the US Congress, which is investigating this. This could get a lot worse for him. You know, we've already seen in the last week emails come out, which directly contradict what he told Emily Maitliss in the now infamous BBC Newsnight interview. You know, he said that he didn't see Epstein after they were photographed together walking in the park.

It now is clear from the emails that many months later, he's emailing him and talking about, I can't wait for us to play again together. You know, really sinister tone of that message given what we now know, Epstein would deduce on the word play. It's abuse. Now, we don't know what Andrew did. he's categorically denied doing anything wrong, but nor has he allowed himself to be interviewed under oath

by any investigating authorities. And, you know, I remind people that he, in the case with Virginia Dufray, said, I want to have my day in court, I want to clear my name. And at the last minute, he settled that civil case with a massive check. And that doesn't mean he's guilty, but for him to then tell him any about this, I've never met this woman, but give her a check for $12 million, to most people stink.

And I don't think this goes away until he gives a lengthy, full and frank interview under oath to authorities. I wonder, peers, though, does the royal family even want that? Is that in the best interest of the monarchy? Well, it might be in their interest.

Apparently, it was the queen that intervened before. This was her second son and she did not want to have the royal family exposed to what may come out in a cold case. We'd never had a member of the royal family take the stand. But the problem now is, it's getting so damaging for the royal family and the monarchy that it might be the best thing, actually, that could happen to them,

is that they finally get this cleared up one way or another. I think, though, with Andrew, you're dealing with a non-negotiable character. The BBC interview was a complete disaster. He clearly could not take direction or advice from the best in the crisis management business. He has never evinced an iota of these allegations are so horrific that I am mortified to even have my name associated in any way with them. These poor girls and women, nothing, nothing about what a monster Jeffrey Epstein was. We all know it.

You know, I think he has yet to sit to be interviewed by authorities in London, and he's hiding behind his royal status in order to do so. I don't think he cares. The only thing I think he cares about is we saw him very recently with William at the funeral. at the funeral of the Duchess of Ken. Duchess of Ken. And again, zero shame. We all knew he was on the way out.

William cannot stand him. William cannot stand him personally or professionally. And here he goes, knowing the world's cameras are on him, attempting to engage William in conversation for cosmetic purposes so that the world will think everything is copacetic and that Andrew can buy himself some time as still a member of the Royals in good standing. I don't know how you manage this man without fully expelling him.

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Talk to you soon. Thanks for having me. Well, joining me on the panel is journalist and host of the Tara Palmieri show, Tara Palmieri, the Royal Correspondent, Katie Nicol, author of entitled The Rise and Fall of the House of York, Andrew Lani, and the former journalist and close confidant of Gilae Maxwell's family, Brian Basham. Well, welcome to all of you. Kenny Nicol, let me start with you. The ramifications for the Royal Family here are serious. And I think they're beginning to understand the gravity

of this unfurling scandal. We're now six years in with Andrew from when he did that interview. And it's getting worse. You're not getting better. And I don't see any way that it doesn't get even worse if more and more emails and stuff get leaked. But what should the Royal Family do?

I've heard, all right, get him out of the royal lodge, the property, okay, you know, you can do that. You can strip him of more titles, maybe drop the word prince of the king's, but I'm not sure that any of that actually addresses the key issue here with Andrew, which is accountability and a proper interview under oath by investigating authorities. That, to me, is probably more important to the victims than just continuing to shame and ridicule him and remove the trappings. of his royal status.

But what do you think? You just said, didn't you, Peers, more important to the victims. I think everything that Andrew has shown is that he has no empathy towards the victims, no compassion, not once in any of this, has he talked about the victims,

which I think is abhorrent to most people. As for what do the royal family do? Well, I sat on your show this time last week before Friday's bombshell that he was being stripped of those titles, and I said, I think there is real pressure on the king to act and to act now.

I mean, when you consider that he lost those titles, the right to use HRAH back in 2022, it took up until now to actually forbid him from using the title that the Queen bestowed on his wedding day, the Duke of York. He remains a blood prince. It would take acts of parliament

to take that princely status away from him. There's a campaign being led by Labour, cross-bentures to do exactly that. But Charles is in between a rock and a hard place because I think he also recognises that his brother has the potential to be a loose canon. There is no end to what Andrew might do. There could be books, there could be other interviews.

You know, Andrew knows where lots of skeletons are buried too, and I think that's probably why the Queen actually suggested and strongly convinced him to settle, pay out that £12 million for this to go away. But of course it hasn't. On the question of his property, I think it's important to note here that it's not actually correct that he's paid no rent on this.

So I read a BBC report into the official numbers behind this. So it appears that since he moved in, he has paid a total of seven and a half million pounds. We don't know where that money came from, but two and a half million was an upfront payment to assuage of the rental that would otherwise be due annually for the period of the lease. And five million was to go towards upkeep and repairs

of the property, And his argument, apparently, is that contractually, he's abided fully by what he was supposed to do, and that far from not paying rent, he has paid, now it may not be as much as it should have been, but that contractually, it might be very difficult to, pardon the pun, dislodge him, because actually he has paid this amount of money into it. He has, and it was the late Queen's wishes that he stayed there. I mean, obviously, his daughters are grown up, they live their own lives, they have their own homes. but he and Sarah Ferguson, when she's over here, live there.

And the Queen didn't want for him to lose that palatial home. I think it's got 30 rooms. And you consider the future King and Queen, William and Catherine, are living in a very modest four-bedroom house in Windsor and Adelaide Cottage. I mean, they are in the process of moving. That would have been a perfect family home for them. And we know that the King is doing a big shuffle of royal residences. But again, I wonder if he fears forcing Andrew out,

even though the public optics, I think, will be very much supported by the public, It is something that will antagonize Andrew, and I think they are worried about antagonizing him. Yeah, Tara, let me bring you in here because you've been getting quite emotional, understandably, in your recent clips that I've seen, because you actually toured around with Virginia Jufre in knocking on doors of people who worked for Epstein. She talks about this in this posthumous book. Obviously, it was a very powerful and emotive thing that you were doing. You know, for those who haven't read the book, just tell me what you were doing with Virginia and the impact that it had on you. So after Epstein died, Virginia believed that the people that worked for him would feel safe enough to come forward and confirm the horrors of her abuse.

So she thought, you know, why don't we talk to these people? We can go to the pilot, Larry Vassoski, who worked for Epstein for decades on the last week. Lolita Express. We'll go to the houseman, Juan Alessi. We'll talk to the chef, Adam Perry Lang. We'll try to speak to adult models that technically worked for him, you know, and we'll see if they'll actually verify these stories and cooperate her. Because for so long, as you've seen, she's been called a teen prostitute, a liar. And finally, the press was acknowledging her and willing to hear her story. And so she felt that this was the moment to see. it and to try to verify it. And so we went on this cross-country journey together and we knocked on

these doors and we delivered notes and we called people and it was really heartbreaking for her. And she writes in her book that for her, it was really about validation. She didn't believe that these people would completely corroborate her story because it would make them seem culpable. It would make them seem that they were participants in a massive sex crime operation. But she wanted them to at least acknowledge her. And in the book, she does write about being allowed into the home of the house manager. I was there with her. And, you know, he embraced her, recalled the time they spent together. But he said very clearly, no, Virginia, I didn't know what was happening to you, but yes, I cleaned off the dildos afterwards. I mean, that's what he testified to police. And before we

spoke to me, he had never spoken to the press before. But he created these lines that he felt would protect him from any sort of culpability. And I remember when we left the house, I asked her, how are you feeling? And she's like, I feel so happy. And I was like, how do you feel happy? That man was clearly covering for himself the entire time. That was the man who was driving Glenn Maxwell the day when you were recruited, was told to stop so that she could get out of the car and talk to you at the Marlago spa. This is the man who drove you home when you were crying after your first night at Epstein's house. And you feel happy? just because he acknowledged you.

And it was a reminder of the breadcrumbs that she settled for throughout her entire life and how little these survivors are even received. I mean, Alex Acosta admits he didn't even read the victim statements but decided that they would die

under withering impeachment. You know, Cash Patel has never read a victim statement before and yet they've decided what these women are capable of. And it was a really, it was a very emotional thing to see, but she believed in better angels

of people who for so long helped a sex trafficker, whereas I felt very jaded by the whole thing. And Tara, how credible was Virginia? In the time that you were with, you talked a lot about all this stuff. A lot of people have raised issues about her credibility. They cite, for example, the case with Alan Dershowitz, where she made allegations against him

and then conceded that it may have been mistaken identity. In that case, obviously all went away. People have latched onto that to say, well, that shows that she may have got all of this wrong. She might be wrong. about Andrew, maybe he was mistaken identity. You've heard all this. What's your feeling about that?

In those cases when she... There are some things that I can't speak about on the record, but in the cases where she conceded that she may have not known the identity, she was under a lot of pressure, and she made that known in her statements as well. And she wanted the lawsuits to end, and she said what she had to say

to make those lawsuits end. She was incredibly consistent in the time that I spent with her. We used the same fact checkers that they used at the New Yorker for the Harvey Weinstein reporting. We never relied on Virginia as a single source. We made sure to corroborate everything.

I heard much more depravity than we could even include in this podcast, broken Jeffrey Epstein. But I found her to be incredibly credible. Let me get straight to the point. Gold is up by around 40% this year. That's not speculation. That's reality. And some of your savings aren't done.

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That's peers to 9-889-8-8-p Protect your future with Birch Gold. Do you believe, then, that the even-d? notwithstanding what she's put in the book, that there is even more stuff out there involving Virginia and all the others. She has been trafficked to at least three dozen men. She showed me, you know, the list of the men, and it's jaw-dropping. And she doesn't even go, she doesn't even name their names in the book. She doesn't go into it.

I think she knows that it's, what the burden that these women, women have to prove their story is so high. And what she has gone through with Alan Dershowitz, I believe that broke her. I really do. The attacks. She for so long was called a liar. Her story was so unbelievable.

We have to remember that the crown only acknowledged her in 2022 when they gave her that payout. But she started talking about Prince Andrew in 2011, and she was dragged through the press for that. You know, she wasn't the perfect victim. But if you look at her story of abuse, she has been through so many cycles of abuse throughout her life. And then going on to be living, to be homeless, only to try to start her life again and then be spotted by Gillesne Maxwell. She was the perfect prey.

These were the type of broken women that Geline Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein sought out, the kind of girls, the kind of vulnerable women who have a credibility deficit because of how vulnerable they are. because of how broken their homes are, because she was living in a trailer with her friends at the time when they found her. Who is going to believe this girl? There's a reason that they did not target the wealthy daughters of his friends

who he trafficked these girls to. Brian Basham, let's turn to your view of this because I believe your view is that you don't believe that Virginia had any relationship with Prince Andrew, for example, never had sex with him. Well, it's a bit more than that, is, on a random fashion, I've made a bit of money, and I conduct investigations. I decided, after getting a lot of calls from the press, that I'd look into this.

And I was lucky enough to stumble across a chap called Jay Beecher, who is a police-trained investigator who had a website called The Max Sop Fathers. And it was intriguing because he demonstrated me that Virginia Jeffrey was a fantasist and a liar. So I've set up a little publishing company. I've set up a little publishing company and I'm going to publish a book, I hope in the new year. It's entitled, The Prince, the President and the Puppets. And I see that one of Virginia Jeffery's titles refers to puppets because I believe, I'm sure. In fact, I believe that there's been a huge blackmail ring with Prince Andrew.

He couldn't go into the visible. Nonsense to suggest that he did it because he's guilty. He wanted to go into court. I am assured, but the Queen didn't want him to do it. Why? Because it had completely messed up her jubilee year, and quite understandably, and 12 million, to the Queen, who is one of the richest women in the world, not a vast amount of money.

So I am absolutely puzzled why anybody believes a word that Virginia Geoffrey says. we have found 50 completely verified lies that she's told and I've put it to the front of the piece of the book she made, I think, maybe 30 million out of all this.

I'm going to come to you, Tara, to respond to that because you're over this. Go on, do you want me to say something? No, I was just going to say, okay, so Virginia Joufrey is a liar, okay, this is what you're saying. I mean, if you look at this picture of her, from with Naomi Campbell at her party, her 31st birthday party.

That is a young, young girl. But she became venal, she became manipulated, and she became a tool of blackmail. What is, what are two adults, okay? Geline Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein doing traveling around the world. This is in Central Hague. I have no idea, and it's totally irrelevant. traveling around the world with somebody else's child.

You're linking things together to suit your case. You're making money on this like everybody else has made money. And it's evil. She is all over their flight logs. What are they doing? She was a collaborator of Jeffrey Epstein's. What are they doing with somebody else's child traveling around the world with her.

Yes, because she was a collaborator. She was having sex. She was enjoying it. She was having drugs. Okay. She was going to sunny places. You think that a girl that looks like that. She recruited.

I don't know what the... Listen, in the United States, you couldn't even get into a... Let's not talk over each other. Let me stop me there, Brian, please. I want to bring in, because you're reading very patiently, Andrew here, you're the author of the House of York. best-selling book now off the back of Andrew's part in this scandal and his story.

You know, look, most people are accepting that Virginia Dufre's testimony is accurate. I mean, I've let Brian say his piece, and there are people that think that about Virginia Dufre. So you've got to hear the other side of it. But I believe that Virginia Dufre's book is the real story here. What is your view? Well, my view is I'm a Cambridge train to story, and I spent four years on this book. Everything I discovered about Andrew was a lie. Everything that I discovered about Virginia Jiffrey was true.

Many of the things I found were quite separate from what has appeared in her book, but actually backs up exactly what she said in her book. And I think the point we need to make, and she's only part of my book, but Andrew has not offered himself to law enforcement agencies or to the victim's lawyers. He ran up to Balmoral to save a sovereign's being served on him,

and I think personally he should face it. charges, he should be investigated for a whole serious things, quite separate from Epstein, misconduct in the public office. But I think having looked at all the evidence myself, I cannot see that she isn't, with apart from a few inconsistencies, a very valuable contributor to her. And without Virginia Geoffrey, this story would not have come out, and we have to pay tribute to that. And I think, you know, the great justice is that even posthumously here, she is finally bringing to justice some of these men. Right. Andrew, you wrote a great book about Louis Mountbatten, a terrific book with which I gave you some help. With Prince Andrew, I told you when you got on the gravy train and started to write about him that he was innocent,

and I sent you evidence that he was innocent. I'm not. I didn't believe your evidence. I tested your evidence and it didn't add up. So, you know, I know you were trying to influence me. Because you haven't investigated, and I have. You investigated Andrew. I've spent four years investigating the judge. with the help of a police trained investigator who's written a detailed book. He's not as eloquent as you, but he's written a detailed book, and I've been helping him, because I admire him.

He then went off to Ukraine and risked his life. Well, you're entitled to your own view. All I can say is I've got a doctorate in research, so I don't need to have any lessons from Brian Basham. Thank you. Yes, you do, I'm afraid. Well, no, I don't. Because your gravy training, you're joined the dance on Prince Andrews's. I came to this completely independently.

You know what, Brian, here's the problem with your stoic defence of Prince Andrew. Prince Andrew went on... Hang on, hang on. I carry no brief to Prince. Okay, fine. I'm just... I think it's a piece of shit.

Fine, okay. Andrew, let's remind ourselves, went on national television and said he had no more contact with Epstein after the famous walk in Central Park in New York. And then we know from emails late last week that was a lie. He carried on having contact with him for sustained period.

We don't know where this is all going to lead. But certainly, as things stand, when I hear him say, I don't remember ever meeting her, this picture may have been faked and so on, all the credibility around those denials now looks extremely suspect because he's been proven in his own words to have lied about the timeline. Let me just hold the panel there for a moment. Going to be joined now by Sir Anthony Selden, constitutional expert, author and historian. Sir Anthony, great to have you back on Unsensored. Really good to see you. There are potential constitutional implications here. What is your assessment of how damaging this could be

to the monarchy, the royal family? What powers do the king have, for example, to save for argument, say, to strip Andrew of the title of Prince and all other titles or to remove him from his royal property and so on? Today's show is sponsored by Oxford Natural, makers of the optimum day and optimum night, all natural supplements. Thousands of Brits and Americans are already taking them with incredible

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So I think that many people have priced in over many years the fact that Prince Andrew is who he is and how damaging it is to the royal family. It's clearly not good news. I mean, the royal family, I happen to be a supporter, are working extraordinarily hard and with illness in two of the most senior royals not helping, they are working incredibly hard

to promote values of goodness and kindness and charity and support for the vulnerable. And here is something that is absolutely counter to that. So, I mean, it's not good news. Is it going to get rid of the monarchy or significantly rocket? even if more bad stories come out. I'm not so sure about that.

I think people really have, you know, they've priced it in. But, yeah, I think there is a strong case. I mean, ideally, we've heard already that it's very unlikely, but if Andrew himself was to leave the Royal Lodge and to make himself, he says that he is innocent, well, open himself out then to the full investigative, process. And I think that if he doesn't do that, then, well, the king, Prince William, whoever has already acted, then he opens himself up if these stories go on and on with all the unwelcome

noise to yet more decisive action against him. I mean, you know, if Prince Andrew is the person he says he is, somebody who cares about the royal family, somebody with a sense of duty and honour, it's obvious what he does. He leaves the Royal Lodge. He goes somewhere smaller and he opens himself up and helps this investigation process by Ravini what he does know. And that is the obvious thing to do if he cares for the royal family, they're his own family and for the good of the country.

I believe the last time a Dukedom was taken away from a senior royal was more than 100 years ago. in 1919 when Prince Charles Edward, one of Queen Victoria's grandsons, lost the title of a Duke of Albany for fighting on the German side during World War I. Fascinating little historical snippet, I'm sure you were well aware of that. It's obviously a very unusual thing for certainly the senior members of the Royal Family to lose titles. I mean, I think there were two, actually, who lost their Duke terms in 19, following the 1917 Act. So, yeah, I mean, I think that shows, you know, over 100 years what a big deal this is. And in that time, we've seen the loss of the HRHs and we've seen the abdication.

I think it's really unhelpful that this continues. The monarchy, or Andrew himself, he says, but really the monarchy did what it thought it needed to do in losing that dukedom. I think it's now, I think all roads lead to Andrew and for Andrew to do what frankly any, any decent, honest person would do. It's entirely obvious. And if he doesn't, then I think no one will have, not least those people who've been trying to advise him, whoever they are, and who he hasn't been listening to, will feel, well, he just thoroughly deserves whatever ignominy. disgrace with becoming his way. I mean, the funny thing about life is if one actually does the honest and decent thing, it's incredibly painful to do it, but actually it's better for everybody as well as for you

and the people, including his own family, who care most for him. Yeah, I mean, the big problem he has now is that he did that interview with Emily Maitliss claiming, you know, this is the truth, I'm finally speaking out, I'm going to clear my name, and all it did is make it a hundred times worse. And now we have the leaks from the US. Congress of him in his own words in emails directly contradicting what he told Emily Maitlis, therefore he lied to her. And once you know he lied about certain aspects of that interview, you then turn to the big picture claims and denials. I don't remember ever meeting Virginia

Euphrey and so on. And you start to ask questions about all of it. That's the problem he's got. Exactly. Sir Anthony, great to have you back. Thank you very much indeed. Appreciate it. Well, joining me now is the Massachusetts Congressman Stephen Lynch. Welcome to Uncensored Congressman. Good with you, Pierce. There is a process here that's unraveling in the U.S. Congress. We're getting leak after leak coming out of here. We're not quite nowhere it's all going to go.

One of the more mystifying aspects of this is that prior to the election, President Trump and his team were very gung-ho about releasing all the Epstein files, and yet for some reason, that hasn't happened. the drip, drip, drip, drip now of leaks. What would you like to see happen now? Well, we would like to have, obviously, the Epstein files that the FBI put together over a long period of time, fully revealed,

to have full access to Congress first and then also to the public. That would be very helpful. And then bring in those witnesses who might, based on the files, be able to contribute to, to some of the questions underlying this whole stream of abuse. We've had an opportunity to meet and to interview a number of the survivors here.

Those women came in, and by the way, they all had very high confidence in their relationship with Virginia Dufre. Unlike one of your gifts there, there's a real bond there among these victims, and some of them shared that whole experience. There were 36 young women who came forward to allege abuse. So there's more credibility on the witness side here and on the victim's side than some of your guests would acknowledge. The troubling part about Prince Andrew is that his contacts with Jeffrey Epstein are after the fact that Epstein would...

was convicted and was a registered sex offender from his activities in Florida, the state prosecution there. So Epstein was a convicted, registered sex offender at the time that the prince and he were having their association. That's troubling. So I think based on that, the committee, and we have people who are interested on both sides, the Republicans and the Democrats, who would like to gather as much information. And that's why I think we'd be interested in, we'd have the votes if that were a direction

we'd like to go in to ask Prince Andrew to offer what he might know about this whole affair. But you can't compel him to testify, can you, if he's here in the UK? No, not at this point, no. Do you think it would be the honorable thing to do for Andrew to now lay himself open to all investigating authorities? You would hope that that's what someone would do in this position. You know, there are all these victims out there, these survivors.

And so to get to the very bottom of it, it would be helpful. Congressman Lynch, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you, Pierce. Go back to the panel. I mean, Katie, it is a hell of a mess, this, isn't it? And it's getting worse. There are people like Brian Basham who have tried to discredit Virginia Dufre.

The vast majority... I have discredited and I've got the evidence. Well, no. These are your claims. Just to be clear, Brian, these are your claims. I interview Virginia Dufre. I'm going to have my say now. I interviewed David.

I interviewed David Boys. Of course you did. Yeah. Well, he's one of the most well-regarded and successful criminal lawyers in modern American. Do you let me finish, Brian, please. He is David Boyes is one of the most eminent

and well-regarded and successful criminal lawyers in modern American history. Yes, did you ask him how much he's made out of this? He's a lawyer. He gets paid for his work. He doesn't get paid for his work. He's getting about half what is the payout, according to evidence. He could have made with his others maybe...

Why is that a criticism? Why are you criticising him for that? I'm not criticizing it. I'm questioning the motives of everybody involved. Well, I don't question the motives of David Boyce. He represents Virginia Dufray, and he represents a number of... Well, let me speak, please, and a number of other victims of Epstein.

And he made it crystal clear to me, seen the files. He says that Donald Trump is not incriminated, which I thought was interesting. This is two weeks ago we spoke. But there are a number of powerful men who are incriminated, and a number of whom should face criminal prosecution. But he had absolutely no doubt, for example, that the picture of Virginia Dufre with Andrew and Gilein Maxwell

is genuine. They had it forensically tested. It is a genuine photograph. Andrew's tried to discredit that. I believe you've tried to discredit that. No, I haven't at all. I agree that it's genuine. So what's she doing, though, with Andrew upstairs in that house at the age of 17? I don't know.

What would you guess, Brian? He was travelling with Geoffrey Epstein. She was servicing Jeffrey Epstein. in many ways by recruiting girls. At the time, she was, by the way, 17. She was 17 years old. So if he had had sex with her in England, he wouldn't have been wrong, but he didn't.

Right. But she was 17. She was 17. He was 41. Well, I think that's very bad news, but it's not the first time that's happened, has it? Why do you believe that that picture is genuine, but don't believe what Virginia did you francis? He's wife is I don't know.

I mean, it doesn't add up. It's not guilty. When you say, why did he, What you can't say is he did. I'm not saying he did. I'm just saying what is he doing upstairs in a townhouse in London with his armoured, a 17-year-old girl, with Gilein Maxwell, who's now serving a 20-year sentence

for helping traffic young girls with Jeffrey Epstein. What is the Prince Andrew of the British Royal family doing in that incriminating picture with that young girl? You say upstairs, a complying office, It's something to do with bedrooms. I've no idea. Well, you're saying upstairs. It was upstairs, it's a fact.

Yes, I know it's a meuse house. Downstairs, I don't know, it's a garage, but it's, I think that's what I think it's just organized like a meuse house. I think the kitchens are downstairs. I can't remember. I've been in the house. I think actually all the living area is on the first floor.

So when you say upstairs, I think that's just smearland. And you believe that Gilein Maxwell is innocent? I don't have any view about Gilles and Maxwell at all. I do know because I haven't investigated Gillesne Maxwell, and I do not speak for Glyn Maxwell. I don't actually like Gillesne Maxwell very much. I've only met her six times. I tried to help her some years ago with her Terra Mar charity, simply because I'm a scuba diver. She had a genuine love for the ocean, so do I, and I did it pro bono.

It's the only time I've met her. So I don't speak for Gellon Maxwell. I am investigating, and I've investigated many, many companies and people. That's what I do for a living. No, I know your background. Let me come to Kenny Nicol. I mean, Casey, look, you've got someone there who just doesn't believe Virginia Dufre is credible. Tara, who has actually spent a lot of time with Virginia Dufray, has no doubt that she was telling the truth.

And in fact, this may be the tip of the iceberg, this book. There are startlingly damaging, scandalous revelations in there. A former prime minister who raped her, for example. Senators are named, not named, but they're accused and so on. What is your view? I mean, where does this go? Well, it's, I mean, in a posthumously, she has opened up Pandora's box,

and there are many, many names, some of which may come out. I mean, just to bring this back to Prince Andrew, and I think it's very simple that if he has nothing to hide, then he absolutely needs to be investigated, as we just heard from one of your other guests, that can't be in America. But we do know, when we're talking about people

that have tried to discredit Virginia Dufray, Andrew was one of the. and we know that because of one of the many exclusives in the mail on Sunday in which they printed those emails of him asking a PPO, a personal protection officer, who, by the way, the British taxpayer pays for and funds, which is why all of this does lead to a bigger question about monarchy, to dig for dirt on her.

Now, why would you do that for someone that you can't remember meeting? Don't know if you met, don't know if you went upstairs. None of it makes sense. I think if any justice is to be done, it will probably be on British soil, Will it happen with a Met Police investigation? I hate to say it, but I think probably not. As I found also similar material of him trying to smear her using PR people immediately afterwards.

You're the PR people, Andrew. I don't know that, and I've been looking into it. I haven't found any PR people who've tried to smear her at all. I found that Prince Andrew looked into her, and why wouldn't he? He doesn't remember meeting this woman. She's making the most terrible claims about him, which are, I've told you, completely lies. And I can demonstrate that I've written to the chairman of Bertelssohn,

a long letter making the points about the way in which she's lied. And I can't show you that because I've got it in front of a lawyer. Tara, let me bring Tara back here. I mean, look, you've got someone there who just doesn't believe Virginia Dufray. Like I said, there are other people. He also doesn't seem to think that sex crimes against young people are that. serious. In America, she could not have consented. Okay, because we have, what we have higher standards. She couldn't even be in the nightclub that she was at with Prince Andrew that night. She would not have an

ID to get into there. Perhaps we have better standards in terms of protecting children. I don't know if you ever spend any time with teenage girls, but when they are 17 years old, they do not have the same brain development of a grown. I have two daughters and we have and you would be perfectly comfortable with them spending time with a 41 year old man. Of course I'm not. Don't be silly. I'm not saying anything like that at all. You're trying

to smear people with no evidence. Well actually, you're the one doing the smeary. You're smearing Virginia Jufray. No, I'm not smearing Virginia Nogh. You are. You've called her a liar. I'm giving you, I'm giving you my views and if you have the time here's, I'll come to see. you with a fire on inch thick

and show you exactly why I'm stating that she is a liar and not to be believed at all. And why you should possibly say that Prince Andrew is not to be believed because he's lied about one incident or two

incidents in the mate listening to you but believe this woman I can't understand. You're a journalist. You have some standards. Why do you believe him? Why do you not believe him and you do I don't believe him because we've now seen email evidence that he lied. So in his own words, he reveals the truth in the emails that he lied about to Emily Maitlis.

It's categorical. It is unambiguous. He lies and he presents a picture of an ongoing friendship in which they could play together. And we know what the idea of playing was to Epstein involved abusing young girls. Tara? Her story has remained consistent and she is not the only person who has spoken about

no, no, no, but she's not that's what I wrote to the chairman of the only victim. Can you allow her to speak please? What about Joanna Schoberg, okay? She writes about Joanna Schoberg in her piece in her book. Joanna Schoberg is another victim of Jeffrey Epstein

who was in a scene with Prince Andrew in the book and is consistent with the same story that Joanna Schoberg has said about this puppet and how the puppet Glenn Maxwell used it to touch the breasts of the girls. And they planted Joanna Schoberg on Prince Andrew's lap.

There are a number. I spoke to the houseman who said that Prince Andrew was in the house and he got massages too. I mean, how can you say that Prince Andrews spending all this time with a pedophile, with a pedophile who has pictures of young girls all over his house? I can say it because I've investigated it. There is not a chance that Prince Andrew had sex with underage girls. Because if they had, they would have been at him like a swam of hornets for compensation

with the help of David Boynes. It just didn't happen. And that's why I wrote to the chairman of Bartleson. And I gave him a full page of evidence, all attested, always files of sorts of, to say, be careful when you publish this book. He's gone ahead and published it most irresponsibly. Why was Prince Andrew friends with this pedophile Jeffrey Epstein for so long? What value did he see in a relationship?

I have no idea. Maybe because he's a freeloader. You did all of this investigating, but you didn't find out why they're friends? Yes, because I assume I'm not, you can't, I have no evidence as to why. I assume that he was a freeloader who was trying to leech of Jeffrey Epstein, as was his wife. Okay, well, joining me now is a victim of Jeffrey Epstein, Rina O. Rina, thank you very much indeed for joining me. Every conversation about Epstein is emotive.

People get passionate, they get angry, a lot of contrary opinions flying around. First of all, what is your view of Jeffrey Epstein? First of all, I want to thank you, peers, for having me on your show and giving me the space to speak my truth. Jeffrey Epstein was a very complicated man that had many layers. He wasn't just a predator. There are a lot of things about him that the public has yet to discover. I knew Jeffrey in a different way than most of the other girls.

And I also knew back then that someday I was going to paint this big portrait of him. So right now I'm actually working on my own book. And in my book, I paint the big picture, which is something that the government told me when I met with the FBI and the prosecutors who were investigating the Maxwell case. They thanked me for my testimony, and they said that I helped them bring all the pieces of the puzzle together. So they're not just victim testimonies. This man was a very, very evil man who was a very evil man who was a very, collecting information on a lot of people. That's something that I could say is absolutely true. That's something that he did with me.

Right, so let's talk about your experience with him. How did he abuse you? So Jeffrey started by inviting me over to his house, and he used what I loved, which is I'm an artist, and he offered me opportunities. He knew that was my current. My currency was not cash. I did not see $100 bills when I was around Jeffrey.

I was never asked to give him any massages. So when I hear the other victims talk about the massage and massages, I can't really relate to that. Other than that some of the other abusers who participated in my abuse were actually, they were massage therapists, therapist. And there were several women who participated in my abuse. And that's something that he did. And I don't really want to reveal the details. I have children who may be watching the show. And I just, I never want them to hear any of this. He lured me in by offering me a scholarship to go to art school.

That's one of the reasons why I kept going back. He commissioned me to make artwork. And eventually, he provided an art student. and that was his currency that he used on me. Eventually I started seeing the flaws. I had a real teacher. He told me he was going to be my teacher, he was going to be my mentor, and all the flaws just sort of reveal themselves. They cracked.

I was comparing my real teacher who provided an amazing opportunity. I was working on a year-long project at the time. So I had two major art foundations who had foundations who have been supporting my work since I was in high school student. And Jeffrey Epstein was a fraud. What he did with me was nothing but abuse. And he knew that towards the end.

And he knew that I knew. So the last time I saw him, we both looked at each other. And it was almost like I was staring at this con man who just abused me for two years. And he knew that I was never going to come back. You had a very fractious relationship with Virginia Dufray. You were suing her for defamation for falsely laboring you as Epstein's girlfriend and one of his recruiters. In July, a judge ruled the seven and a half million pound lawsuit can be passed onto Virginia's estate despite her suicide. So the litigation is ongoing.

Are you going to pursue this? We are waiting until the estate is established. you know, there are some delays that's what I've heard through her attorneys. I feel betrayed by Virginia. I feel that everything could have happened very differently. She, the way I view Virginia is she's a victim. First and foremost, all the girls began as victims. She went from being a victim to becoming a victimizer.

and all those things that were said about me are absolutely not true. I'm a very credible witness. The government has identified me as being a witness only and not a recruiter or anything else. And I had to file this lawsuit to prove that I was a victim. And I think that that was just, it just took so much time away from my life. I should have been spending all this time healing. and instead I was fighting her false allegations and she kept bullying and bullying and bullying me.

And now I have this amazing team of therapists. I'm a full-time patient. I have five in total. And I just want to move on. We were about to go to trial with these two lawsuits. And unfortunately, it's very sad that she decided to end their life that way. When it comes to what she said about Prince Andrew, and the fact that he settled the millions of dollars out of court with her.

Do you believe what she said about Andrew? I can't really give an opinion or testify to what she said about Prince Andrew. I can only stick with the facts. I never met Prince Andrew. I didn't hear his name when I was around Jeffrey Epstein, so I can't really say, do I believe her? Or, you know, have I met any witnesses that corroborate with her Prince Andrew's story? So I don't really have an opinion about him.

Well, Rina Rowe, thank you very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it. Thank you for having me on your show, Pierce. You go back to Tara, finally here, Tara. You know, a lot of the women I've talked to who were victims of Epstein, they're damaged people from the experience. There's no doubt about that. Some were damaged before they met him and it got worse.

Some were damaged by him and Gilein Maxwell. In the end, you know, I'm not. I don't have reason to doubt the word of Virginia Jufre. Others on this panel clearly do. But it could be in the fog of war, if you like, around this scandal. But not everything is going to be 100% memorized correctly. That doesn't mean that the substance of the overall picture is wrong. It is indisputable that Jeffrey Epstein was a serial predator of so many young female victims.

It is indisputable that Gil A. Maxwell is serving a 20%. a sentence for helping him trapping them. And so from that alone, you know, the idea that someone like Andrew who was hovering around Epstein for a long period of time, many, many years, including after his conviction for being a paedophile, you know, it stretches credulity that he was some blameless bystander for all this time. At the very least, he is guilty of lying about how long he continued seeing a convicted predator. Yeah, I have to agree with you.

And I look back on that period of my life. I mean, 16, 17 years old, I can't tell you what day I did X, Y, and Z. And I wasn't experiencing traumatic abuse daily. I wasn't spending time with adults who I wasn't, you know, that's the period of your life when you're living with your parents still. That's the period of your life when you're supposed to be going to school and growing and and moving on to something great. And this is, these are Virginia, a period of sex slavery, traveling around the world, meeting powerful people.

Maybe that was partially intoxicating, but she had come from such a broken home and such a broken world that she was really holding on to everything. One of the really sad parts about the book. But she's tried to explain to me, which I just have a hard time wrapping my head around, is that she actually had compassion. passion for Jeffrey Epstein. She loved him. A lot of these girls loved him because he was manipulative. He would... He was paying her a lot of money and she was his collaborator. What is an age that seems unacceptable to you, by the way? What is an acceptable age for prostitution for you? We've got to leave you there. Thank you all very much indeed for joining me. I appreciate it.

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