Piers Morgan Uncensored - 'You Never Had a Girlfriend LIE About You?!' Andrew Tate & Tristan Tate Extradition | With Dr Phil

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

President Trump and Secretary of State Marco Rubio have confirmed they will not block the extradition of Andrew and Tristan Tate to the UK, where they face 59 serious charges, including sexual assault and sex trafficking. The decision is a significant setback for the Tate brothers, as they rely on the argument that the charges against them are politically motivated to secure U.S. intervention. Joseph McBride, the attorney for the brothers, has been actively portraying them as political prisoners, making a direct appeal for the President’s empathy. The situation has sparked intense debate among conservatives regarding the movement's association with the Tates. While Andrew Tate maintains a vocal following and strong support for Donald Trump, his public profile - including his history of provocative statements - has left many questioning whether the movement’s values are being compromised. Is the Tate case truly a form of "lawfare," or are these serious criminal allegations that must be allowed to play out in court? Piers Morgan speaks to Matt Jury, the lawyer representing the alleged victims in the UK, before examining the implications of this extradition for the conservative right and the wider questions of principle vs. political alliance with Michael Knowles, Adam Sosnick and Pearl Davis. He also speaks to Dr Phil for his insight. 00:00 Introduction 04:53 Tate prosecution lawyer Matt Jury interview 09:10 Should the Tates do a life sentence? 12:13 Panel debate begins 13:05 Michael Knowles on the charges against the Tates 15:36 Shapiro slamming Fuentes, Carlson and the Tates as ‘Muslim pornographers’ 19:52 Pearl Davis on the Tates’ innocence 23:50 The volume and severity of the charges being dismissed 26:25 Sosnik: ‘I remember when Tate wasn’t a Muslim and the UK wasn’t Muslim’ 29:00 The multiculturalism and murder rates of London 33:47 If the Tates were convicted, where would that leave the conservative right supporters? 36:30 Are women worse drivers than men? 40:54 Doctor Phil on the Tate brothers 45:10 Why are young men seduced by the Tates and the manosphere? 47:15 Dr Phil on visiting the White House to see the next tranche of UFO files to be released Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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So, consider this your invite. Bacardi, do what moves you. Tap the banner to shop now. Live passionately, drink responsibly. I think the extradition was a stunning reversal of the UK's longstanding policy never to prosecute Muslims for trafficking or rape. For Ben Shapiro, it's pretty hypocritical of him to crucify the Tate's when the Daily Wire has ex-porn stars on their platforms. I'm old enough to remember when Andrew Tate was not a Muslim, and I'm older up to remember when the UK was respected and also not a Muslim. I grew up in South London.

You're great. On the mean streets. I worked to live on the mean streets of two teens. The main streets are Black. Wonsworth, Brixton. You fuck life, Pierce. My wife, sheep does Uber, whatever. You know, she's getting an Uber.

My wife gets a female drive. I'm not joking. She will cancel it. When that clip went viral and it was getting all the headlines, my wife said, she goes, Mac, you left out very important context. And which is true. I think our government, they've been lying to the American people for 79 years. President Trump, our Secretary of State Marker Rubio, say they will not block the extradition of Andrew and Tristan

and Tate to the UK, where they face 59 serious charges, including rape and sex trafficking. It's a massive blow for the Tate Brothers because only they hold the authority to block extradition if they consider the charges to be politically motivated. That's why Joseph McBride, attorney for the Tate Brothers, I spent this week portraying them as political prisoners.

There was a very direct appeal for the president's empathy. The man that I voted for office who's currently in office had millions of charges slanded against him all over the place. Some of them he beat, some of them he didn't beat. Most people who understand the process know that that was a load of crap. Most people who see this for what it is know that it is the same exact thing. Now, I have no idea whether the Tate brothers will eventually be proven guilty or not guilty, as I've said repeatedly, including to their faces.

I do know enough to say the case against him is not the exact same thing as the so-called lawfare against President Trump. I can also say with some confidence that the resignation of Kia Starrman's prime minister this week had nothing to do with Andrew Tate. Stimer just retired or is retiring. I'm sure he's mad that Andrew and Tristan Tate had a lot to do with his fall in Great Britain. And there's a new guy in there right now. But this is the last vestige of attack of a prime minister who didn't do a good job.

And he continues to do bad work. And I'll just leave it there. Innocent tool proven guilty, we're going to let the court process play out here the way that it should. We're happy to be here. Just to reiterate, Keir Stammer's resignation had zero. to do with the tape brothers, not 0.0.0.1%, but a big fact, zero. Conspiratives aside, innocent until proven guilty, is correct and it's important. I interviewed Andrew Tate in September, just minutes after a smaller case against him had been dropped.

Every time we speak, there seems to be some new case against me, and you quite, you know, rightly say, we'll wait to see what happens in court. And here we are four or five years later, and they all fall by the wayside. This is just one step closer to my complete exoneration, sir. Correct me if your understanding is different to this. As I understand it, this is one case involving four women who are concurrently running a high court civil case against you. So they will have their case in a civil case, but it won't be criminal now. But that doesn't impact the other constabulary,

which brought 21 charges against you and your brother Tristan early this year, right? That's still ongoing and still separate to this. That's correct. Well, none of us has any ideas of prosecution will succeed. The case might be baseless or a legal mess. Equally, they might be facing a lifetime behind bars. What we do know is that many US conservatives are facing tough questions on why their movement adopted potatoes in the first place.

Republicans of 20 years ago would have blown their gaskets about Andrew Tate in particular. He may or may not be a criminal, but he's a self-described Muslim pornographer with a listening of outreactual. outrageous statements and misdeeds. He's also extremely popular and a vocal supporter of Donald Trump. And that might explain, while Trump administration helped him to leave Romania in the first place and allows senior officials to make appearances like this.

Hi. Hello, Alina. Hi. Nice to meet you. I'm a big fan. Well, nice to meet you. I'm a fan. You're the one saving Trump.

You're doing more important work than me. America. America, not just Trump. And I agree with everything you just said. And I think that your anger is the same that President Trump has for our country and the time is now for us to stop being wimps. Well, whether people like the Tate are welcome and necessary for winning coalition or whether Prince of all should always come first is the subject of our debate.

But we begin with the lawyer representing four of the alleged state victims here in the UK, Matt Dury. Matt, welcome to Uncensored. Thanks for coming in. No, thanks for having with this. This is a very complex case. It's been rumbling on for many years. One, why is it so complex? Two, why is it taken so long for justice to be done either way? Well, firstly, I would say all prosecutions,

investigations of prosecutions, crimes of this nature, this seriousness are going to be complex, and they're going to take a reasonable amount of time. But one, this is not an extraordinary case, and it isn't any more complex necessarily than other cases. involving allegations of rape and sexual assault. So where are we right now with this tape case in totality?

Well, the question is which tape case? Because obviously there are prosecutions in multiple jurisdictions. How many at the moment? So we have the ongoing prosecution in Romania. We have the charges that have been authorized in the UK for which the tapes are pending extradition. We have an investigation, not prosecution, but in the US by the DOJ, which we don't know what the status of that is.

So that's three jurisdictions. But the Romanian courts have explicitly ruled that the Tates must finish their criminal proceedings in Romania and trial before they can be extradited to the UK to face separate British charges. Is that correct? No, almost, but not. What the Romanian court has actually ordered

is that the Tates cannot be extradited from Romania to the UK. But they could from the United States. But they can be from the United States. So is the most likely scenario now, pending any appeal by the Tate's? that they will be extradited from the US direct to the UK. Yes, I believe so. And when would you imagine we could be looking at a trial?

In the UK? Yeah. Well, the statistics are from charge to trial and prosecution, the average is 18 months, around that amount of time. How long is it going to take to get them from the US to the UK? That's a different matter. They're in custody. They're in custody.

So they won't be going anywhere. They have a bail hearing next week, is my understanding. And they have a right. to appeal? They do, correct. And if that was to happen, how long does that all take? Speaking to American colleagues, I think it's going to be a matter of six months. Right. I think it's probably a fair estimation. So we could be looking at a trial potentially sometime in 2027 or would it take longer? I'd say 2028. But that's only best guess. Now, the Tate's argument will be, where's our fair due process here? We've been at the center

of these investigations and multiple charges in multiple jurisdictions now, for many, many years. That doesn't feel, to me, normal. Is it to you? No, I don't think it's normal. But I think it's as a consequence of ineffective investigation being carried out by the UK authorities

for close to a decade in respect of our clients' original criminal complaints that were made in 2014, 2015, and a litany of errors and mistakes that are taking place as a consequence of that. You've got the Tate Brothers lawyer, Joseph Brickbride, who we heard earlier. The Tate brothers are American citizens who deserve full American constitutional protections.

There should be no extradition of American citizens when the charges are unclear and political. What do you say to that? Well, there's quite a bit to unpack there. I mean, firstly, yes, they're American citizens, but they're also British citizens. They both have dual citizenship. They're dual nationals. Yeah. Correct.

The alleged victims are British. The alleged crimes were committed on British soil. So the UK courts have got jurisdiction. There's no argument. about that at all. Now, as to whether, as to Mr. McBride's statements that this is some sort of political persecution, well, you can go ahead and say it's a political persecution, but it doesn't make it so. On what basis is he saying that? He's offered no explanation as to why this is a political persecution. How compelling to you is the evidence against the Tates? Based purely on the four women you represent. Based purely on my opinion and the evidence I've seen, I believe my clients.

I believe the evidence is compelling and there is an abundance of it. If they're convicted, I had a guest on earlier this week who said that they would face life imprisonment. Would that be your understanding if they're convicted of the majority of these charges? I have to confess, sentencing guidelines are so nuanced. I really wouldn't want to pass comment. I don't want to say I think it would be for an extraordinary long period of time. Do you think they deserve life imprisonment on what you've been told by your clients? Do they deserve life in prison?

I'm not going to comment on that. I'm not the one who's passing sentence. Your clients, obviously, they've made the allegations. They've been at the centre of this, but they remain anonymous, rightly. But how are they coping with the fact that their case is being discussed and debated around the world? It's not a normal case. This has got huge global attention. It's horrific and it's traumatising.

But that only speaks to their... courage and their bravery and continuing in the face of that. But the fact is they were dealing with that before they stepped forward to challenge Tate and to campaign to ensure that Tate faces justice here in the UK and is held to account and faces the allegations being made against him. Because for years they had to bear witness to Tate's rise on social media and in the public domain as an individual of influence. There's been a lot of intimidation from Tate's supporters against anyone that takes them on.

Have you had it yourself? Yes, very much so. And what's that like for as a lawyer to receive that? Well, look, I've spent 20 years as a public interest litigator. And I have represented victims of terrorism against terrorist organizations, state sponsors of terrorism, rogue states. So you're used to threats? I'm used to threats and I'm used to intimidation. And I've got to confess this is of another level.

Really? Yeah. Even to that stuff you just mentioned. Yeah. I've been put under surveillance. Really? Yeah. Who bide you then? I have to be careful because I've only got my... There's the conclusions that I reach, which are reasonable conclusions, that I was put under surveillance by those associated with Tate. At their behest?

That would be my conclusion based on my opinion and belief, yes. And any direct threats? What, physical violence? Yeah. No. But threats of... It's harassment and intimidation. Just... Insults, etc. Yeah. And you've never had this before in your career. Not to this level. No.

What does that say about... Not to the level where someone's outside your house, no, for a matter of weeks. And what does that feel like? It's deeply unpleasant. For weeks they're outside your house. Yeah. That's horrific. Yeah. Yeah. I had my personal information unlawfully obtained, which is how they found me in the first place. Because given my career and my history, I'm very careful about what information is in the public domain. My address is not a matter of public record.

And I know that my personal information was obtained unlawfully. That was the subject of a police investigation. Did you hesitate before coming on on doing this interview? No. Why? Because I've got a job to do. Matt Jury, thank you very much. Thank you, peers.

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of the Tate brothers, Adam Sosnik, and a late addition, and returning to the show is longtime conservative Tate supporter, Pearl Davis. Well, welcome to all of you. Michael Knowles, this is, as we've just been hearing. It's a complex case. It's been running for many years. More and more charges have been leveled at the Tate's. But what was interesting about this, I think, politically,

is the way many on the Conservative right wholeheartedly embrace the Tates. So we've got a couple of supporters on the panel here now. notwithstanding the sheer volume of very serious charges that were continuing to be leveled against them. And now we have this extradition call from the UK, which the US looks like it's not going to try and counter. What do you feel about this? Well, I think the extradition was a stunning reversal

of the UK's longstanding policy, never to prosecute Muslims for trafficking or rape. That really surprised a lot of people, I think. You get the grooming gangs report come out. I just interviewed Sammy Woodhouse, one of the victims of that. And you think, well, this went on for decades and decades. The UK not only neglected it, they intentionally turned a blind eye. They knew what was going on in many cases.

They ignored the victims. So that's one thing that raises eyebrows about the prosecution of the Tate's. All of that said, though, not only is there, I think, a fair bit of evidence that the Tate's committed all sorts of crimes, but they did brag about a lot of this activity. You know, if the crime or one of the allegations that relates to some of the crimes is that they were pimps, you know, they prostituted women, Andrew Tate did brag about that. You know, he did brag about his degree as a Ph.D., a pimp and hose degree. They are open about having run pornography businesses. In some of the cases here, you have allegations from women who say that Tate raped them or abused them, and you have very consistent allegations here.

But then, of course, in some of the allegations, you have women who say that they were abused by Andrew Tate over a period of years. In other words, they were in a relationship with Tate for years, but some of his behavior was abusive or even criminal. And I think all of that can be true. So I understand why people raise their eyebrows at an investigation, prosecutions that have gone on in multiple countries for multiple years. But we should be clear about the facts here. You know, they have been open about a lot of very shady, dodgy and possibly criminal activity. they are Brits who moved to Romania. Brits never moved to Romania to do good stuff. You don't move to Romania to go bake a pie for the widow, okay? You move to Romania to do really sketchy, dodgy stuff

that they've been very open about. And so the reason I think people on the right, in the American right, have in some cases embraced or defended the Tates is because in certain cases they have the same enemies, the same kind of liberal, woke, globalist agenda. That's true. And also because these institutions of global liberalism

have been corrupt. So that gives an opening to the defense attorneys and the states to say, well, look, just as Trump was a victim of the corrupt institutions, so am I. It can be the case that they're guilty as sin, and the institutions that are prosecuting them are corrupt as well. I think both of those things can be true and very likely are. Adam Southington, welcome back to Unsensit. I want to play a clip from Ben Shapiro, who this week attacked Nick Fuentes, Tucker Carlson, Candice Owens, and others for defending what he said were the Muslim pornographers, Andrew and Tristan Tate. Let's listen to what he said.

Tucker, as I've mentioned, devoted hours of airtime proclaiming Tate's innocence. So did Candice. The vice president followed the Tate Brothers on X. Is this a coincidence? It's all the same people. It's all the same people. These are the conspiracy theorists.

These are the reactionary right, horseshoe theory people. These are the Jews did the pornography. and did the Holocaust really happen? Simultaneously, hugging Muslim pornographers who allegedly raped white women. Nick Fentes is constantly claiming to hate pornography. I mean, that's when he's not, you know, having a window open with trans pornography on it. He claims to despise the Jews for supposedly having spread a pornographic culture,

despite the fact that Judaism opposes pornography and finds it a sin. The point of his later comments, Adam, were attacking what he said was the hypocrisy of people like Nick Fuentes, Tucker Carlson, Candace Jones, for defending Muslim pornographers, as he put it. What do you feel about that? Well, you have, you know, I have massive respect for Ben Shapiro, and as well as Michael knows, I thought he crushed it right there. And I'm also friends with Andrew Tate.

You can have diverging opinions in your life and still respect both parties right there. But I've known Andrew Tate for at least five years. I've been a fan of Ben Shapiro for God knows how long. Maybe if there was a cross-section of two people, it would be someone like Ben and someone like Tate. So you could be a masculine, strong, powerful guy and still have values and conservative principles and standards and respect women. Now, I watch Ben all the time. I saw him do a 45-minute episode on Andrew Tate. I know he's not a fan of Andrew Tate.

I don't think Andrew Tate or Tristan Tate, who I've known for quite some time, consider themselves conservatives. I think where they both align is that they can confidently say that the Labor Party of the left or the Democratic Party of the Left in America are ruining the country and are ruining the world. And if you can team up to get someone like Trump elected, I think that's where all these forces kind of came together. Now, Ben Shapiro, if he had his opinion, he probably would have never had Andrew Tate endorsement. But that's irrelevant because Alina Habo you just showed, I believe. I think you showed Donald Trump Jr. I think Baron Trump is a fan of Tate.

So they'd say have a big tent. For me, the Republican Party is a big tent. As long as you love America. Now, Tate is an American. He's also a Brit. He's also moved to Romania. I think we've interviewed the Tates at least five times on the PBD podcast. And I'll tell you one story that made me a little more confident in the Tates.

You ready? So, by the way, they've been charged with or allegations of some of the most heinous absurd, horrible, ridiculous crimes and they've never been convicted of anything. But one time in Fort Lauderdale, when they were able to fly in and he sort of challenged DeSantis, he said he had to go back to Romania

and I asked him, why do you need to go back? You're here in the States. He goes, I'm going to man up and I'm going to show up and I'm going to be there in trial and I'm not on the run. That made me a little bit like, wow, this guy really believes in what he's doing.

Paul Davis, welcome back to Uncensored. I mean, I've always felt with this case against the Tates. that ultimately it will come down to the issue of consent, that they are going to, I suspect, say, yeah, we had relationships with these women and everything that was conducted in those relationships was consensual.

I may be wrong, but that's my feeling about the way this is all going to play out, including the webcam business they ran and so on. But how can you be sure, from the outside, given you weren't there when this was all going on, how can you be sure they never crossed that line? Well, I obviously can't be sure if I wasn't there. I don't know. But if there's facts that come out that back up the girls, then I'll go with it.

But I think a lot of men in this country can relate. I mean, you guys have ex-girlfriends, don't you? You've never had an ex-girlfriend make up a lie about you or you've never had that happened to a friend of yours. And for Ben Shapiro, it's pretty hypocritical of him to crucify the Tates when the Daily Wire has ex-porn stars on their platforms. So they've had Nala Ray. They had on Lawrence Southern.

He accused a bunch of it. Yeah, I know. Is Lauren Southern a foreign star? That's news to me. Maybe not technically, but she falsely accused a bunch of guys from the conservative party. Like it's, you know, women will do the most egregious of sins and do the most egregious things. And you guys all put them on your platforms. There's no, like, there's no second, there's no question about it.

But if a guy, no, there are a lot of questions in interviews that go on for a long time. But there are a lot of, that's what an interview is. But then also, I think the crucial point you're missing for it is that it's one thing to put on people who have reformed and repented. You give them softball interviews that you would never give a guy and there's never any penance for it. So it's like it's pretty hypocritical that they're crucifying the Tates for making money off of cam work when you don't crucify the porn stars that come on your platform that also made money off of cam work. Like there's a bunch of only fans out there. I agree. That's true. We try that to do that. But I think you're making an apples and oranges comparison.

I know you think it's funny, but like this is a claim from like three years ago. This is a claim from like 10 years ago. So it's like we're a bunch of But Paul, that doesn't make it automatically untrue. I know. And what we now have, we now have nearly 60 charges. And these

aren't just trivial charges. These involve human trafficking, rape, sexual abuse, forming an organized crime group. We've just heard from a lawyer representing four of the women who says on the evidence he's seen, it's extremely compelling, extremely detailed, and that when people see the full details,

they will understand what is really happening here. I just think there's got to be an end date to it. You cannot keep dragging people to court from stuff from a decade ago. So if the evidence comes out, and I'm wrong, I'm wrong. You can based on the statute of limitations, right? Isn't that how the law works? I know. in the UK, it's, it's...

Well, no, every jurisdiction has some statute of limitations on certain crimes. I just, I don't really understand what you're arguing for. Are you objection to the extradition? My objection is to the hypocrisy. I just think when he played the clip of Ben Shapiro, I just couldn't think, I couldn't stop thinking about how hypocritical it is, because you guys have ex-porn stars on your platform, and you give them these softball interviews,

and yet then you crucify a guy doing a thing. Pearl, I think you hit a glitch, because you're repeating yourself, but I'm just asking what the hypocrisy is. If one is to do an interview with someone who's repentant or even not repentant, just anybody, you know, you can interview Osama bin Laden or something. That's the job of a journalist. But how does that relate to your objection to the extradition of the Tate brothers for the alleged crimes? I don't see.

I get that you don't like Ben Shapiro. Let me just jump in. I agree with Michael. I'm not, she made her point about the Daily Wire. I think we can move on and focus on the Tates here. That's right, right? Well, I mean, my thing about this is you've got. So many people on the right, I interviewed clavicular, yes, you know, on Monday.

And he was like, none of this is true. It's all a political stitch up, blah, blah. He has no, absolutely no evidence that any of that is true that he said. He just happened to hang out with the Tate's in Miami a few months ago, which became notorious because they played the Kanye Heil Hitler song and they were all seen dancing along to it. Yeah. You know, but there are a lot of people racing to defend these guys.

I've interviewed Andrew Tate five times, I think, maybe more. And I've always made the point, look, until you're proven guilty or something, I believe in due process, and anyone is entitled to be innocent to proven guilty. But, you know, my point, I think, Adam, about this, is that the volume of the charges

and the severity of the charges means the prosecutors must be confident they have a pretty strong case here. And these are really serious allegations. And so the rather trivial way that are many on the conservative right in America have simply dismissed all this as political stuff, I think is ridiculous.

I just find it hard to believe it if they were in a relationship with him after. Well, hang on, Paul. I'll come to you, but just, Adam, first of all. Yeah. Yeah, I hear you. Look, I can't tell you how much content and interviews legitimately with both dates I've done on this.

And what I realize, there's three camps. There's the camps that are going to say, put them to jail. They're a rapist. I can't believe them. They're such scumbags. Toxic masculinity, you're not going to convince those people of anything. There's the people who are going to say, bro, he's innocent, straight up.

It's all a hit chop. It's a political warfare. This is what's going on. It's weapon. You're not going to convince those people otherwise. What I hope in America and around the world is there's still reasonable people who are willing to look at what's called facts. I believe Ben Shapiro talked about facts, not feelings, and legitimately see what happened here. Here's my experience.

I remember three years ago, when we first interviewed Andrew Tate, I want to say, in Spain, Madrid. We had a meet at a secret location with PBD. Then we, that's when he got canceled. Then we had to fly to Romania to their compound after I was on house arrest. I remember all these different situations and everyone saying this is what's going to happen. This was what's going to happen. What happened in Romania specifically? Let's do this.

In Romania, he was charged with the most hands. Anus crimes, human trafficking, rape, minors, money laundering, trying to start basically a organized crime. And what happened with all those allegations, Pierce and all my other friends out here, zero convictions. Zero! Not like, well, we got you on one, like Diddy. So you have super famous people who have been found guilty.

Well, it is on, yeah, but hang on, Weinstein, Epstein, and the Tates are still innocent. But Adam, the Romanian process is ongoing. So it's not like they've been cleared of everything in Romania. They haven't. On go. How much time do they need? I thought there's a lay-up case.

I think there are legitimate questions about how long this is all taken. How many years do they need? No, I agree. I believe in a fair and speedy trial. I'm not sure what's going on in the UK these days and the hypocrisy with the grooming gangs and everything going on here. But I'm old enough to remember when Andrew Tate was not a Muslim. And I'm older up to remember when the UK was respected.

and also not a Muslim. So let's be fair here, and whether it's Romania and the UK, get it over with, not just because of the Tates, because there's some victims here that need justice. When you say, when you say the UK is Muslim, what you, I think, meant to say is that 5% of the UK is Muslim. Did you miss out the percentage, or was there some reason for that?

You know we like to have fun in the show, and you know that we're joking. But there's also some truth in every joke. Well, there's no truth in the fact we're a Muslim country. There's 5% of the population is Muslim. 95% are not. And it's going great. The rape gangs, the free speech, everything's going great.

We had a real issue, but as Michael, I mean, you talk about hypocrisy. I just encourage you to clean it up. Michael hit the nail absolutely on the proverbial head. He's one of the sharpest guys out there, Michael. Of course he is. That's why I always have him on. Come on.

But this point, there is a stunning hypocrisy that many on the conservative right in America have been attacking the UK relentlessly. Elon Musk and others have been doing this, saying, you guys, you protect these Muslim sex criminals, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, of course, Andrew Tate and his brother, they're Muslims now are charged with various serious sex crimes

against women. And suddenly it's all like, well, they're all trumped up, it's all political, whatever. Imagine if people in the grooming scandal has said the same thing. Yeah, there is a real peril about the hypocrisy here. I have to answer this real quickly. Michael, sorry, if I may.

Michael, please. And I'm going to give you the floor. Pierce, number one, Tristan is not Muslim. Andrew Tate's been Muslim for 15 minutes. Whatever's been going on in the UK is a systemic problem. I couldn't remember if Tristan was or not. The Tristan is not, he hasn't converted. It's only Andrews.

Pierce, I'm in Jerusalem right now and I was in Tel Aviv. I can't tell you how many Brits have come up to say, hey, big fan, see you on Pierce. He's the man, love you. We're moving the hell out of lunch. for fear of our lives. And the number is in five, ten. It's dozens of people.

Well, I'm saying the hell in London and I haven't feared for my life. I haven't fear for my life once. I'm going to take that credit. You live in a nice part. I don't live in a nice part. I live. I actually live. Hang on.

It's amazing. I can tell you, I can tell you, I grew up, I grew up in South London. You're great. On the mean streets. I worked to live on the mean streets of two tink. The main streets of that is. Brickston, right? West London is a very mixed environment.

You're not there now. The problem with you Americans is you don't actually come over here to look for yourselves. I lived in London for three years, Pierce. I've lived there. And you don't think West London has people from... My ex-wife is British, Pierce. I've seen this.

West London is the nice part. I lived in the heat. Let's get back to the series. Yeah, because you can't gaslight what we see with our eyes, pierce. What do you think you see with your eyes? You said, I mean, poor old Adam says he can't, apparently London is a terrified of the country. That is absolutely not true, at least not in London.

And I could tell you, just walking around London for three years. What do you think? This is what commentators do. They want to say, believe my statistics. Don't believe what you see with your eyes. No, I'm asking you to believe what I see with my own eyes. That was a good one. I've lived in London since I was 20 years old.

I'm now 61. In the nice part, because you made money out. There's no way you are living in London. I have never once, Fierce for my life. There's no way. You did not live in East London. There's no way. I got to agree with that. I worked in East London.

I worked in East London. I worked in East London. I worked in East London for 16 years. I worked in East London for 16 years. But not now, see. How long ago, Pierce? Well, it's a bit like saying, look, I've got a home in Los Angeles. Pierce, you're dating yourself, baby.

I'm 61, but I look 50. You just said Americans don't try for us side. You do. You look great, but you also worked there 40 years ago, Big No. It's the same. I have a home in L.A. There are parts of L.A. where you might fear for your life, most of the places you don't.

Same with London. Pierce, next thing you're going to tell me that L.A. is doing just fine as well, and there's no not. I don't like the way L.A. is gone at all. Let's come back to the taste. Let me bring in I love you so much. There's a one of a show to be had about

about whether Britain is it's so terrifying. Everyone has to leave. It's bullshit. Anyway, by the way, let's not even get into. Andrew Tate is the one of... Let me ask you one question.

Let me ask you one question. Which city are you all currently in? Mike, were you? I'm in the free air of Nashville, Tennessee, but to your point, I was just with you peers in London. Yes, you were. And I did survive. But, well, the one thing is,

because I'm Sicilian, I might pass for like a North Pakistani. They might have me off the hook. I don't know. I didn't have any danger when I was there. You never fear for your life. Where are you at him at the moment? Miami? Well, I'm born and raised Miami.

I just happen to be in Jerusalem right now. That's why I gave you all those people who are basically saying they're trying to leave London. So that's my experience here. That's my lived experience, fears. It's just my lived experience. It's my truth. I spent three years in London. Where are you now?

And now I left because it actually was. was so bad. Where are you now? And now I live in, I live in Dallas. So you want me to believe that the Dallas murder rate, for example, is better than London's? I don't know what the murder rate is. Let me help you. The murder rate in every American major city is infinitimally worse than it is in London. I can't, I can't. Let's go to the rape statistics. Let's go to the knife attack statistics. Yeah. Look, you were talking about the Muslims being in London, and it's only 5%. And I said that is absolutely not true. No, I said 5% in the UK. Yeah, whatever it is in London. How much in London, though, bears. And it's a completely different experience. As it is in most

as it is in most American citizens. Slightly, oh my God. Let me bring, let me bring things back. You know what, there's a bigger show to be had about the murder rate in America compared to London. Trust me, we will win. But let me come in, let me bring it back to the Tate's. So, Michael, let's talk about where we are with this case, because they are likely to be extradited, I would say, within the next six months, whatever happens. Back to the UK.

They're likely to then face quite a lengthy trial, probably, as we heard from a lawyer for some of the alleged victims, in 2028. So this could get wrapped up sometime in 2028. It is, to me, an unfeasibly long time from start to face. finish this, but at least there seems to be some light at the end of the criminal tunnel, if you like, for these two guys. If they were to be convicted on multiple counts and receive a life or very long sentence, where would that leave everyone on the conservative right in the

U.S. in particular that were so happy to jump on board with them, knowing there were a lot of accusations out there about them? They probably wouldn't look all that great. You know, that The thing is, the great thing about being a political commentator or an influencer is you never have to admit you were wrong about anything. That's true. They have the attention span of a fruit fly. The one area, though, where I think people could really be justified in not opposing a conviction of the Tates, but of demanding something more be done is to the point on hypocrisy. Not the hypocrisy of journalists, you know, asking questions or anything, but the hypocrisy of these institutions. because the way that the Tates are defending themselves

is they're saying, yeah, look, maybe our behavior was reprobate, but it wasn't technically illegal. Yeah, maybe I had this abusive relationship with this girl, but it was a relationship that went on for two years. That is their argument, yeah. Yeah, that is their argument. And so you can take that to the political level, which is all of the attacks on the Tates are that they're pornographers.

Okay, I hate pornography. I agree. I think we should ban it. But it is legal. I think you should prosecute pornographers. But yeah, but, you know, looking at pornography is a lot of. as an industry, the tates are small potatoes.

Why aren't they going after the big guys who are actually playing in pornography? If you're talking about trafficking, yeah, trafficking is really bad. They may have trafficked girls. Why don't we go after the cartels and the organizations that are actually trafficking people? You have at least in my country in America

and actually in your country too. You have the left-wing parties who are facilitating that kind of stuff. You want to take rape seriously. Obviously, we've been talking about the grooming gangs. There's been neglect of that issue here in the United States. So I just say, okay, yeah, great, fine. You know, go after the Tates if they committed the crimes, throw them in jail forever. But what about the broader political

implications? Because that really is a hypocrisy. If you're only going after it when it's some online influencer, but not the far more widespread and egregious problems that are systemic. Yeah, that's a fair point. Now, look, on the subject to traffic, and this is a clumsy segue, way, but it's because you were in the news, Michael, weren't you, for your views about Uber drivers this week, in which you said this. My wife comes to me. Sheep does Uber, whatever, you know, she's getting an Uber.

For me, I get a female driver, I say, whatever, it's going to take me longer to get to the airport, but it's fine. My wife gets a female driver. I'm not joking. She will cancel it. No. Yes. I am stoked when I get a female Uber driver because I'm not going to get murdered, okay?

You know? Well, they have a new one now because, yeah, because women are afraid of being, like, kidnapped or murdered or something. But, like, so they have this new one where women can request female drivers. And my wife, she actually goes, she was like, man, are they going to do one where I can only request a male driver, please? Is this what your wife sounds like? Exactly. I mean, it's an amazing. Now, other than your extraordinary impression of your wife, which I'm not quite sure how she would take that, but were you basically using her but quietly believing the same thing?

I mean, do you yourself ever have a female Uber driver? How could you suggest such a thing, Pierce? When that clip went viral and it was getting all the headlines, my wife said, she goes, Mac, you left out very important context, which is true. The context I left out is that she hates getting the female Uber drivers in part because I'm so chatty. So I'm talking to them,

and the women are much more likely to get distracted than the men. So I think my point still totally stands. I am late to the airport when I have a female Uber driver. They miss the exit. They're not, but I take some responsibility for that as well. I'm very gregarious. I like chatting with them. Adam?

Adam? Pierce, if you want an argument on the show, you're going to get it with Adam and Michael right now, by the way, sir. Go on. Michael knows you're a legend. But question for you, how often do you take Uber? All the time. I take Uber constantly. Okay.

Okay, gotcha. I'm just checking in. because I haven't, the reason I wanted to chime in is I haven't had a car in 15 years. All I do is Uber. Like DJ Callet, all I do is when? All I do is Uber. I don't care if it's a man, a woman. I don't care if they're a he, she, whatever they got going on these days.

Do they speak English? That's my number one thing these days. Because in America right now, there's a lot of Uber drivers. No, I'm Spanish. I live in Miami. And never persons that conduct, the coaches, Abla English. None of them speak English.

People have been here from Cuba, from Colombia, from Venezuela, from all over the world, Haiti, no English. Now, I speak multiple languages. But please, if you're going to come to America, man, woman, he, fee, she, whatever you're identifying as,

learn the language. Well, I do think, I do think, to be fair. And please don't make Michael Nose late to the airport and getting a fight with his wife, please. Yeah, I do think it's reasonable to expect any cab driver, Uber or otherwise, to speak the language as a country. they're in because they're having to deal with people who want to go somewhere and want to have

that conversation. I think that's not unreasonable. And maybe, Pierce, they could even have an ID. Right. But do you not think that what Michael Nol said is brazenly sexist? I mean, I have terribly offensive. I have no problem with female Uber drivers. I would prefer a male Uber driver. Why? Because women are more likely to get in a house. Well, hang on. Is there any statistical evidence that female Uber drivers, is crash cars more than men. I don't know if it's by Uber driver, but women do get into accidents more

when you look at how much they drive. So men technically get into accidents more, but it's because they drive a lot more, but women do get into accidents for how much more. Is that actually true pro raster? I don't think it is. I think women famously are deemed to be safer. Well, you can name one famous sports car driver,

race car driver, and that's Danica Patrick. All the rest are dudes. There's an evolutionary reason. I think it's my case right there. Men are better drivers. It's something with spatial awareness. I can't remember exactly what it is, but there's an evolutionary reason for it.

Well, you know what I do? I managed to resolve this whole problem by getting a driverless car. When I get to L.A. soon, I get Waymo, which have neither male nor female drivers. They have nobody. They have an empty driver's seat and it drives you on its own.

And I've got to say, first few times it freaks you out, and then you get into it. And then by the end, I was ordering them... I was ordered them on my own, literally getting it to pick me up from a restaurant, take me home on his own. And it is the weirdest thing. But actually,

there's no chat problem, Michael, for you to worry about. No chat problem for your wife to worry about. They have so many senses. I saw one of them, one of the Waymo's, pull a stunt in front of me to avoid having a collision with a car that I honestly think 95% of human drivers, if they'd been in that car, they would have crashed. And that was extraordinary to watch. So I think it is the future will be Michael Knows' dream scenario, which is there's nobody sitting there. It's just no one chatting. It protects you from crashes, missed flights, and from sexism.

Isn't that the most important thing of all? We've got to leave it there. Fascinating conversation. Thank you all very much. Good to see, Pierce. Thanks as always, Pierce. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple.

Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save. Get a quote at Bel Air. direct.com. Well, I'm joined that by the author-broadcaster and clinical psychologist, Dr. Phil McGrath. Dr. Phil, great to have you back on our sensitive. It's good to see you, Pierce. How are you? Well, how are you?

Good. Busy, but good. That's a good thing. Well, it's an unusual segment today. I'm going to talk to you about the Tate's and then about aliens. Some would say the two may be connected, but we won't make the connection today. Let's start just with this saga of the Tate Brothers. So they rose to extraordinary global, I don't know what you would call it, popularity, infamy,

by presenting themselves as old-fashioned guys with old-fashioned male values, keep fit, mentally fit, physically fit, you know, but also began to become increasingly, in my estimation, misogynist and keep women at home, don't give them the vote, all that kind of stuff. But underlying all this for the last few years has been this ongoing, series of increasingly serious allegations about alleged criminal conduct that's now exploded with them being arrested in the United States, almost certainly going to be extradited back to the UK, where they're facing up to 60 charges of rape and sex trafficking,

sexual abuse, and so on, which could depth charge them completely if they're found guilty. At the same time, you have a lot of people on a conservative right in America saying, I don't believe a word of this. They're political prisoners, et cetera, et cetera. What do you make of this? Well, you know, I've followed this from a distance because I've been concerned at how many young men have plugged into this and followed this.

And, you know, I think sometimes that they filled a void, they filled a vacuum of, a strong male role model in their lives. And so many of these young men have been devoid of relationship skills. They've been devoid of any real relationship skills, interactions in the real world because they live their lives virtually on a screen. And so here come these guys that, you know, they're kind of like carnival barkers, you know, they are out there as hustlers, street hustlers, promising this, promising that. And, you know, I think it's a message that a lot of young men would find seductive.

Like, you know, do this and you'll have all these women, do this, you'll have all of these exciting experiences. and I think it's been kind of like a Pied Piper. And it's a hollow message. It's an empty message. It doesn't pay off. And I think by the time that's discovered by those that follow along, you won't be able to find these two guys with two hands and a flashlight. So I think it's just my opinion.

I think they're just con men. And I think they've been laughing all the way to the bank. And I can't believe that they actually believe what they're saying. I think they just say what works. And they say, look, the more outrageous we are, the more claims that we make, the more show of this fantasy life, the more outrageous, the fantasy life we show, it gets more followers. So I think they've just been reading the market and selling what people buy, what these young guys buy. And I think it's a very dangerous message.

And I'll get a lot of hate mail for saying that, but that's what I believe. I think it's a dangerous message. And I think it's going to leave a lot of disappointed young men that are going to be behind the curve and have to get out and develop real skills and real relationships with real potential partners in their lives. And I think that's going to set them back a good ways. It also begs the question, why are so many young men, why do they feel so disenfranchised by society that they gravitate to people like this? Because there's a wider picture. I've talked a lot to Jordan Peterson about this, about this kind of lost generation of young men who feel like there's nothing in life for them. Well, you know, there isn't much in life for them if they live their lives on a two-inch screen.

Look, nothing great is ever going to happen on a two-inch screen. It's going to happen if you get out and as some of the others out there say touch grass, which used to be kind of a put-down saying, yeah, you're so crazy, you can get out and touch grass, get off of this and go touch grass. But it's now a positive movement saying put down your devices, go out there and get in the real world. And there isn't much for those that live virtually. But if they will put down the devices, they'll go out and just go to their church, get in a youth group, go get in a softball league, go hang out with friends, go do something where they're challenged to have to interact. They're challenged to have to answer questions, ask questions.

They're challenged to have to groom. They're challenged to have to take a shower. get dressed, go out, engage in conversation, have something interesting to say, ask some interesting questions, go participate in a group activity. They're not developing those skills and you're not going to get a hit if you're not swinging. You're not going to get rewarded. They say, you're not going to catch a fish if you don't have your hook in the water. You've got to get out there and get in the game. And if they will, they will close this gap. I'm the incurable optimist. I'm the incurable but you're set back if you don't ever get out in life

and give yourself an opportunity to win. A hundred percent, as always, you speak such common sense about this, Phil. Let's turn to aliens, because I didn't realize you were quite so immersed in all this, but you were invited by the White House to review the latest tranche of UFO files before it reached the public. So what did you see and what should we brace ourselves for? Well, you know, I'm not a Johnny come lately to this. I've been following this for a long time.

I started doing some interviews about this over a year ago. And I have to say, the thing that first impacted me when I started studying, there have been four releases so far. I did get an exclusive look at the fourth one before it went public. And I think because I've had some conversations with those involved in the current administration and from a psychological perspective, look, I'm not an aerospace guy. I've been a pilot since I was a teenager, so I've spent a lot of time in airspace. And I understand radar and tracking systems and how you can get false signals and what the differences are between false signals and real signals. And also I have some experience with that.

But my primary interest in this is from a psychological perspective. Because if in fact there is credible, reliable, valid information, and validity and reliability are two important but very different concepts, if we have valid information that is reliable, that there are phenomenon that cannot be explained with our technology. And so we have to start to come to grips with the fact that we're not alone in this universe and that there may be things going on in our atmosphere on planet Earth that we just simply can't explain and therefore we're not alone in this universe. That can have a profound impact on people's thinking. Now, 71% of people in one study said, hey, I kind of figure we're not alone in this universe. That's a big difference from having it confirmed that there may be intelligent, non-human life that is on this planet with us right there.

In your studies, when you were asked by the White House to look at the UFO files and say, was there anything that you saw where you thought, wow, okay. That, to me, looks alien. I have seen electronic evidence that I believe indicates that there are aircraft that are doing things that we don't have the technology to do. that there are aircraft that are aircraft that are making maneuvers at speeds and G-forces that we simply don't have the capability to do.

And it's not a close call, peers. You know, I've flown with the Blue Angels and they go to like 7.5G, 7.49 G forces. I think the most that a human has been recorded and it was on a sled where it was unbelievable acceleration up to like 25 Gs for a half a second. There may have been one experiment with approached 50 Gs for just a micro second. But you get up into double digit G forces and depending on whether they're straight or in a turn.

we don't have the ability to withstand that. And we've seen some aircraft on radar screens and tracking. And they've also been visually confirmed by credible observers, military pilots, commercial aircraft pilots, and seen by different people and on different tracking devices that would be making maneuvers that G-forces would be like 10,000. We don't have that capability. There's no explanation for that. And of all the sightings that are out there that I've seen going through these four different

groups of disclosure documents, about 40 percent of them are just simply not explainable by our own technology. So, Phil, is it not like, I mean, I would absolutely be in the 70% who think there must be other life in the universe of some kind. I mean, why would we be singled out this tiny pinprick in something the size of the universe and be the only things that exist? It seems to me, I would have thought, 100% nailed down certainty. Are you as convinced as me that there must be alien,

life, Alan? Well, I am convinced that, well, I would say this. It makes common sense. It makes scientific sense. From the things that I have seen so far, I'm, and I was very skeptical going into this. And, and Pierce, I'll tell you this. I think our government, they've been lying to the American people for 79 years. Not only have they been lying by omission and withholding information, I think there has been an active program of misinformation and misdirection. Really? And I don't think that's by accident.

I think it's been planned. And if you go back and look at the documents that have been released, it's very much like when you get into the documents from meta and some of the big. companies, social media companies. You find in their own documents that, hey, yeah, we know this is addictive. We know that this creates mental and emotional problems for preteens and teens, but we're doing it anyway. So you don't have to speculate. You can read their own documents admitting that they know it and they're doing it anyway and the algorithm is sensitized to that so they can get more advertising dollars. I look at that as being analogous to what I'm finding

in these government documents where you go back to that. to 1947 where they were burying information. 1949, there's a classified conference in Los Alamos where they were spotting these things appearing over America's nuclear weapon sites, but they're saying, no, no, no, there's nothing to it. The Robertson panel in 1953 convened and recommended a public education campaign built on one strategy,

publicize the cases that, that have already been debunked and say nothing about the ones we can't explain. I mean, that was their strategy. And then they, in 53, they put out J-NAP 146 and then followed it with 146E, which penalized people, threatened them with jail time, prison time, and ruining their careers with very high fines if anybody spoke about these things that they had seen. So they knew it and they were threatening people if they talked about it. I'll ruin your career, you'll never fly again, and you could go to prison under the Espionage Act if you talk about it.

Why are they hiding this? I mean, it's insulting to me. These people that are in government, they don't have any particular wisdom. They don't have any insider vision. They were everyday people working in jobs just like the rest of us. But then all of a sudden, we're not smart enough to know what they know. You know my theory, Phil? I don't get it.

We've got to wrap, Sally, but my theory is it could be because the people that are doing the cover-up are actually aliens. Well, that would be a stretch, but I suppose it's possible. Who knows? Maybe the aliens are here, but they look like us, and we just don't realize because we're not aliens. Well, maybe that's true, but I think more likely as you follow the money and they're trying to reverse engineer propulsion systems or whatever, Because if you do that and you can do the maneuvers that we're seeing, boy, oh boy, have you unlocked a really important key to energy and energy management? And I want to be sure that as a government, we're making plans to support certainly vulnerable parts of the population that would have a bad reaction to this if it gets confirmed.

and that we're really thinking carefully about those that would really be upset by this. And if human exceptionalism has to be recalculated that we're there for those people, whether it's religious groups or elderly or those that are perhaps easily destabilized mentally or emotionally, that we have the resources to help those people readjust their thinking. And right now, our resources are 100% absorbed. If there's a big movement that needs help, we're not ready for it, and we need to get ready for it. We do.

Dr. Phil, always great to have you on Our Sensor. Thank you so much. Pierce, good talking to you. I hope I see you soon. All the best. You too. Pierce Morgan, On Sensor, it is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me.

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