Piers Morgan Uncensored - 'You're a Spokesman For TERRORISM' Netanyahu Asks For Pardon | Dave Smith vs Jonathan Conricus

Episode Date: December 2, 2025

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has formally requested a pardon from President Isaac Herzog, soon after President Trump voiced his enthusiasm for the idea. Meanwhile, Israel is deeply divided over the scale of a war that is now reckoned to have killed 70,000 Palestinians - just as America (and increasingly, the MAGA base ) remains divided over US support for Israel. Piers Morgan is joined by host of Part of the Problem Dave Smith and retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus to discuss. Piers Morgan Uncensored is proudly independent and supported by: Tax Network USA: Call 1-800-958-1000 or visit https://TNUSA.com/PIERS to speak with a strategist for FREE today Superpower: No more guessing your health. Visit https://Superpower.com today! ExpressVPN: Right now you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN for free. Just scan the QR code on the screen, or go to https://ExpressVPN.com/PIERS and get four extra months for free. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon? The thing that's wildest about it is the context of this coming after two years in the destruction of Gaza. For most people, Pierce, they're thinking of the tens of thousands of babies that he's murdered. You know, in a rare occasion,

I think I have to agree with some of your remarks. The moment they're inside, they get shot dead. This seems like a prima facie war crime. The level of interest, scrutiny and alleged care about what happens, it is mind-boggling. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in this way, and every single time they lie through their teeth about it. An important detail in the horrific Gaza war is that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is facing trial for corruption and bribery. Many Israelis believe that he prolonged and even escalated the war, often ceding ground to the extremists who hold together his government, in order to delay a trial that may end his

reign for good. And it was in that context that many Americans expressed disappointment when President Trump said this a few weeks ago. Hey, I have an idea. Mr. President, why don't you give him a pardon? Give him a pardon. Well, right on cue, Netanyahu has now formally requested a pardon from Israeli President Isaac Herzog. Automatic absolution for his crimes would, he says, bring the country together in the national interest? The truth is that Israel's deeply divided over the scale of a war that's now reckoned to have killed 70,000 Palestinians, that is America, and increasingly the MAGA base

remains divided over US support for Israel. Joining me to discuss this and more, Dave Smith, hosted part of the problem, and Jonathan Goldrickers, the retired lieutenant colonel and IDF spokes. Welcome back to both of you to uncensored. Dave Smith, it almost read like a parody when I saw that Benjamin Netanyahu, the current prime minister of Israel,

had written to his own president, requesting that he be pardoned for crimes, to his alleged abuse of power, given that the very action of asking him to be pardoned was, you could say, an abuse of power. Yeah, I thought you're, I retweeted your tweet on this, which essentially just said that. And I don't know that there's much more you could add to it. I mean, it's just so indefensible and right in front of you. I guess, like, the thing that's wildest about it is the context of this coming after two years

and the destruction of Gaza and support for Israel. absolutely collapsing around the world, that in the wake of all of that, like for most people, Pierce, when they think of the crimes of Benjamin Netanyahu, they're thinking of the tens of thousands of babies that he's murdered. They're thinking of destroying all of Gaza, which we can only reasonably deduce that the whole goal of the thing was what they're, you know, like when you were arguing with Dave Rubin and they dismiss Ben Gavir and Smotrich's ministers or whatever. But the only thing you can deduce from this is that the plan all along was exactly what they said to make Gaza unlivable and try to drive all the Palestinians out of there. But in the wake of that, the guy who's clearly at the very least has this real problem with incentives where the war continuing is in his political interest and think about how disgusting that is.

But now he's going to say, oh, what, it'll bring. It'll bring unity to Israel to absolve me of my crimes. Well, that's awfully convenient now, isn't it, Pierce? Jonathan Comrickus, surely you can't defend this, can he? Well, as you know, peers, not a spokesperson for my prime minister, and never was. I spoke on behalf of my military. And, you know, in a rare occasion, I think I have to agree with some of your remarks.

And, you know, I think head of opposition in Israel, he made the point that this isn't really a pardon request because there's no admittance of guilt. and there's no repentence, repentance. So I think it's mostly a political issue. I try to stick in my lane to speak about things that I actually know a little bit about. Military affairs are enemies, et cetera.

And I wouldn't wander too much into it. And of course, you have your opinions on it. And that's fine. Well, to be honest, look, their opinions that were pertain to any world leader, just to be clear. I mean, to remind people of what these charges are, And, you know, he would have been on trial by now if it wasn't for the war.

And as I said at the start, many people believe... Oh, he actually is on trial, appears. He is on trial a few times a week. He's in the... Sorry, yes. I'm sorry. Just to clarify, I meant it would have all been sorted by now if it hadn't been for the war, likely, right?

I mean, we can't say for sure, but it's likely it would have been dealt with. It was paused for a significant length of time. I think we can agree that it would have been faster, But, I mean, the proceedings are ongoing. They're interrupted every day. I understand from various notes in the courtroom and that the prime minister has to leave because of events and he's tending to state affairs

and he gets notes from his assistance. And many of the proceedings have been canceled. So definitely the court and the court proceedings have been delayed by the fact that the defendant is actually running a country at war. Right. But of course, there, right there is the incentive for him to carry on warmongering. I mean, you could, if you were being cynical. I'm not saying that's my view.

I'm saying if you were being cynical, you would say there's the incentive right there. Now, just to remind viewers of what the charges are, the first involves fraud and breach of trust. The allegation is that he and his wife, Sara, received various goods from an Israeli Hollywood film producer, an Australian billionaire worth $200,000 in return for favorable economic and political treatment when Netanyahu was in government. Another fraud and breach of trust as a set of charges pertaining to a newspaper owner offering favorable coverage to Netanyahu and his family,

alongside less favorable coverage for his political opponents in Israel's largest newspaper. In exchange, Netanyahu allegedly used his influence to promote legislation that would impose restrictions on rival publications and bring significant financial benefits to the paper owner in question. And then in relation to the other charges of bribery fraud and breach of trust,

Netanyahu is accused of using his powers and authorities as a public servant to promote a telecom company, Bezegh, under the alleged arrangement, the owners of a telecom company exerted substantial and continuing pressure on editors of its publications to change his coverage in line with various demands made by Mr. Netanyahu and members of his family. Now, I don't care if it's Benjamin Netanyahu, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, the president of France, it could be anybody, right? It doesn't matter who the world leader is.

These are serious charges of bribery, fraud, and corruption. which should be treated as the serious things that they are for a world leader to be committing these kind of offences. Nor be he wasn't the actual leader of the country at the time most of this went on, but he was certainly one of the power people in the country. This is an abuse of power that he's accused of. And it seems to many, including me, Jonathan,

if I'm brutally honest, I sit at the top, that it's a further abuse of power to try and get yourself off the wrap while you are the serving prime minister, And that's the problem. And I would say that whoever it was. And I would agree. And I would say that if someone wants a pardon, then there's an established norm for pardon,

and that is to accept responsibility, admit guilt, and ask for forgiveness by doing so, begging for pardon. That's the way I, someone who is not a legal scholar and an expert understands it, and that's what I read, is the acceptable norm. That isn't what we're seeing. What we're seeing is part of a, it's a political move at a very select point of time towards the president in order to apply pressure there. And eventually to get rid of something that definitely appears to be a quite burdensome nuisance for the prime minister. That's what I read into it.

And yeah, as a citizen, you may call me naive, but I actually have trust in my legal system. I've seen previous sitting Israeli prime ministers be charged with corruption and sent to jail and serve time in jail. Not two weeks, like in France, but actually served more than a year and a half. A guy that you had on here, Olmelt, was convicted of corruption, and he was summonsed to jail and he served jail time. We have a former president, which is far less executive power, but nevertheless, a head of state, he was charged and convicted. of sexual misconduct and things of that nature. What you've never had is, you've never had a serving Prime Minister, using the fact that he's on trial for criminal charges,

using the fact that he's the Prime Minister to get himself off the hook. And Dave Smith, to bring you back in there, and he was... No, never a serving one and a very powerful one at that, I agree. Well, look, I'm glad that you've conceded on that ground. Dave, he was the Minister of Communications on this has. So he was a member of the government. Like I said, we discussed the abuse of power and the irony of another abuse of power to do it.

How relevant or otherwise is the pressure that Donald Trump brought to bear on this, urging Isaac Hertz of the president to fully pardon Netanyahu before this? Because you can't imagine that Netanyahu would have done this if Donald Trump hadn't preemptively said what he said. Maybe he would have, but certainly it's a pretty big deal when the president of the United States of America, the head, the commander-in-chief of the world empire, and of course, you know, the country that props up Israel inserts himself in their domestic politics like that. I mean, that is no small deal. So it's certainly noteworthy. I think it's also noteworthy that in that same trip that you're talking about, Pierce, is when Donald Trump joked around about how Miriam

Adelson, his biggest donor, prefers Israel to the United States of America, only to then a week or so later, after he made the demand that Israel simply not annexed the West Bank, the Knesset voted to annex the West Bank while J.D. Vance was in Israel. So I don't know. I mean, I actually love Pierce that at this point when we do these panels, the first question that you asked the pro-Israel guest is just, you can't defend this, right? To be fair, to Jonathan, though, but I would say the reason I like having Jonathan, but the reason I like Jonathan coming on unscensored, I do think he's been, far more intellectually honest about some of these issues

than many other people on the Israeli side. He's not afraid to say when he thinks things are wrong. You may not agree with a lot of the things he defends, but he's not afraid to be critical. Many of the others are blind, on both sides, by the way, can be blindly non-critical of whatever their side does. Well, let me, in that spirit, Pierce, I will say, and I do, I appreciate Jonathan acknowledging what he did up front there.

But I would say just at maybe something we all could agree on. The idea that Netanyahu has put, it's obviously very self-serving, but the idea that Netanyahu is saying, well, you have to pardon me because that's what's best for national unity. You know, that's how we move on from these divisive times. I could say, as an American, I remember Barack Obama, as I'm sure you remember, Pierce, making this exact pitch about not prosecuting Bush administration officials for war crimes. There was a lot of pressure on Barack Obama from his left-wing activist base when he first got elected and took office in 2009 to prosecute some of the war crimes that had clearly happened,

clearly been committed by the Bush administration, torture and lying us into war, all types of stuff. He said, no. We're not going to do that because we have to move on because that's what's best for national unity. And how has that worked out for us, peers? We entered into the most divisive times, certainly in my lifetime,

I think undeniably in modern American history. And I would just say that if you ever want to see national unity or if you ever want to see times of political, divisiveness come to an end. The only answer is to hold criminals in government accountable. That's what actually would get people to believe in the system. I would ban the pardon system in America apart from where there is a clear and egregious and provable miscarriage of justice. I would just ban it. I think the moment that you can basically pardon, if you're in office, anyone on your side who's done anything, that is in a way, it's an endorsement of crime.

I just don't understand why people think that is a good system. And it gets abused by the left, it gets abused by the right. It gets abused by everybody. It's understandably. I want to just switch, Jonathan, to this appalling video that emerged from the West Bank of Israeli security forces shooting dead to Palestinians who, it appeared, from the video that's come out, come out, and they pull up their shirts to show that they are not carrying weapons. They put their arms in the air to surrender.

This was during an ongoing Israeli military operation in the city of Agenin. And you can quite clearly see them surrendering. Then you see the Israeli security forces pushing them or urging them to go back inside. And the moment they're inside, they get shot dead, executed. Now, just on the face of it, this seems like a prima face, a war crime. If you have people surrendering like that and you then shoot them dead, that is an illegal execution, isn't it?

Yeah, so if the video is unedited, which I believe that it is, and I don't have any evidence to suggest that it has been edited, and I take it at face value, and if indeed what we see in the video happened, then it is a dramatic deviation from anything. that is acceptable in the IDF, in combat activity, or otherwise. And what currently is going on in Israel is that this is being investigated by the highest levels. The Israeli chief of staff, the commander-in-chief of the Israeli military, General Zamir, just put out a statement after having visited the place himself. This is just a few minutes ago. It's out on Israeli media, and I'm sure you'll see it soon on international media, where

So he says that by initial assessment, this is a, it raises significant questions and that this needs to be investigated deeply. And if there indeed was, if this appears to be true, then there need to be consequences and there will be consequences. Now what's going on is that there's an investigation. The troops who are involved here are actually part of the police. They're a police special counterterrorism unit. that operates under the military in military operations in Judean Samaria,

fighting Palestinian terrorists. The raid or the activity specifically here was many hours of hunting down terrorists that were planning attacks, and one of them had executed attacks against Israeli civilians. And they finally surrendered after they understood that they couldn't fight anymore, and then this allegedly happened. I don't like it at all, if it is indeed what happened. then I think there should be drastic measures against those involved. This type of behavior cannot be condoned.

And I'll remind everybody that we've had similar but different instances in the past in 2015 or 16, I believe it was. An Israeli soldier wrongfully shot, illegally shot a Palestinian terrorist who had tried to attack Israeli troops. That was also caught on camera. and that soldier was investigated, stripped of his ranks, and thrown into military jail. Have any of them, Jonathan? It was a heated political debate. Again, I admire your candor about this, and I'm glad you say what you've said, but two observations I would make.

One is that the IDF actual spokesman, Lieutenant Colonel Nadav Shoshani, said shots have been directed toward the two men as they exited a building. Now, we can all see that is not what happened. So that's a lie. So you've got an IDS spokesperson on the record lying about what we... How is that a lie, peers? Because they were not shot as they exited a building. They've been shoved back under the building by the Israeli...

It's a pretty big omission. Yeah. Yeah. But they came out and surrendered. And then were pushed back in. Really? And they executed. They weren't shot as they exited the building.

And the second thing I would say is you've got our old friend Ben Gaviv. a national security minister, who gave his full backing to the officers involved, saying, terrorists must die. And Dave Smith, I'll bring you in here. Right here, you've got two of the biggest problems in this whole war. One is that we only know about this because it was called on camera, and it begs the question how many more incidents like this have been going on that we don't know about. Once again, I'll remind people, and Jonathan, I know you agree with me about this.

it is outrageous that the international media remain banned from the ground in Gaza, where they could verify what's been going on there, even though we're seven weeks into a ceasefire, albeit one which has continued to have a lot of violence within it, but it is a ceasefire, and you still won't let the journalists in. I think it's outrageous that the Israeli government continues that ban. So you can't verify what's going on. But again, this only came to our light because of a video that was taken. And then you have people like Ben Gavir and Smodrich who don't give Adam.

They would happily see all the Palestinians out of there. That's what their stated mission is. And the question then becomes how much of their stated mission, which everyone on the Israeli side always tries to downplay. They're not that important. They're not. Well, they're senior members of the government. And I think Netanyahu only got back into power by jumping into bed with these people.

And I think he's been pushed ever more to the right in terms of, his outlook on this. So you've got all this going on as the backdrop to this. What do you think about this video and what it represents? Well, that's right. I mean, I think you hit a lot of it exactly right, Pierce, which is that, right, look, it's not just that the incident happened, which is horrible enough, but then the way that IDF spokesman and the highest ministers in the government just lie through their freaking teeth about it. Like, they've been caught so many times, Pierce, and you're absolutely right. There's a whole lot we don't know about. And I think when you won't let the media,

in it reasonably leads to a presumption of guilt. The presumption is that you're trying to hide a lot of things. But just look at what we do know, Pierce. We know that there's been multiple doctors in Gaza who have reported that toddlers have been used as target practice. We know that the IDF has admitted multiple IDF soldiers and the Israeli government has admitted that they were firing live rounds into sites

where people were desperately trying to get a little bit of food. Hundreds of Palestinians have been killed in this way. We know about the where's daddy program, we know about all types of like indiscriminate killing of innocent civilians and every single time they lie through their teeth about it and so i'm sorry jonathan can phrase this as like that's not the idf people should be held responsible there's an international uh yeah well it seems to really often be exactly what the idf does and nobody ever seems to be held responsible i mean it's very hard jonathan it is very hard to maintain a position that the IDF, and these security forces were operating, as you say, under their command,

that the IDF is the most moral army in the world when you see them literally breaching the Geneva Convention on tape. You see them executing people who have just surrendered. That is a breach of a Geneva Convention, specifically set up to prevent these kind of crimes. If you owe back taxes to the IRS, they can garnish your wages and levy your bank accounts. They can even seize your retirement or take your home. Don't let the IRS target you. Call the professionals a Tax Network USA.

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Your biology decoded. Your blueprint activated with superpower. Pierce, I think, you know, a moment of honesty here, if we all may. It is actually quite tremendous, you know, the level of scrutiny. of the IDF and of Israel, of Prime Minister, which I'm not here to defend, but I am speaking on behalf of my country in a sense. I think that the level of interest, scrutiny, and alleged focus and care about what happens, it is mind-boggling to see how much people allegedly care when it comes to dealing with issues

that are related to Israel. And I think that one, you know, there's marriage to what you've been saying, and and, of course, seeing a video like this, it looks horrible, and that is what I said, what I said, and I believe in it. And I also believe that just like in the past, and the name of that soldier was Elor Azaria, you can check it up, what happened to him, how the IDF dealt with the issue, internal pressures,

political pressures, that, by the way, weren't very unsimilar to the current situation that the IDF is dealing with, with a complex political environment, where everything is sensitive, where it is Israel fighting, against terrorist organizations and where we have politics that are involved in fighting. But at the end of a long process and public debate, that soldier was held accountable for his

deeds. And I believe that if these policemen are indeed at fault, which the video looks like they were, but we shouldn't be hasty in delivering a sentence here, then they will too face justice and they will face consequences. There are no other problem, though. Jonathan. And he's just in a surrogate. When you fight, but, Pierce, when you fight, but, but, I know what you're going to say, but let me just say this. Here's the problem. Yeah, but, but, but, I mean, let me say it, you know, when you look at the amount of engagement,

the amount of attacks, the amount of activity that Israel is forced to do every day and every night in order to defend itself, a very small percentage of activity doesn't go exactly as it is supposed to. Yeah, but I just got your word. Jonathan, Jonathan, hang on. We just have your word for that. Because the Israeli government continues to ban all international journalists, even though there's been a ceasefire,

but nearly two months. That isn't true either, Pierce, and you know it. There's been more than 60 journalists inside Gaza since the ceasefire. There are people from friendly, there are people from Israeli government-friendly media taken in, embedded, and they do... No, no, international journalist. Really? Well, why is...

International journalist, Pierce. Well, Clarissa Ward... 6.0 crews have gone in, including CNN and... Okay, well, Clarissa Ward... I'm glad you mentioned CNN. Clarissa Ward is one of the top people at CNN, one of their top international journalists. She said, this is your schedule reminder she posted today. The international journalists are still not allowed to report freely and independently inside Gaza.

We're more than seven weeks into this ceasefire. The previous excuse given by Israeli authorities for the banning of journalists was it was a security consideration. which was seen by many as a smokescreen, as articulated by the Committee to Protect Journalists. For two years, Israel sought to control the narrative on Gaza with a range of measures that are unprecedented compared to any war in modern memory, since CBJ, CPJ, CEO, Jody Ginsburg.

This includes targeted killings of Palestinian journalists, attacks on media facilities, the banning of news outlets, and the prohibition on independent media access. With a ceasefire now in place, Israel cannot be allowed to normalize this unlawful behavior. And yet here we are, she says, on Monday, December 1st,

an international journalist still cannot report freely and independently inside Gaza. And the problem is, Jonathan, and I know you agree with what I've said about us before. The problem is, it leaves us, we have to then take your word for it about how the IDF has operated because we can't get independent word for it.

It's only when these videos come out that it looks like actually, they're not the most moral army in the world at all. Pierce, that Clarissa Ward that you're quoting and singing her praise is the same Clarissa Ward that I remember shooting a selfie video with big crocodile tears over a Palestinian social-called journalist. She got jubed.

Who, in fact, I forgot his name. Yeah. Well, no, she didn't get duped. And I don't think she did. And I don't think that she ever owned up to her mistake. She made a mistake. Did she own up to her? her mistake?

Did she own up to it and say, oh, I call this Palestinian terrorist a journalist and I sang his praise when in fact he was a known. They made no, they made no pretense that it was a mistake and they got duped. But she remains one of the outstanding foreign correspondents of her entire era. So to question her word. What I think she remains is someone who has clearly shown her bias, clearly shown her personal bias. No, she got dup. It happens.

The Israeli conflict. Well, did she do a fancy video saying, I got duped, and I said something that was wrong, and I misled my millions of followers on Instagram? I don't think she did. I think I would have seen that video if she would have, but she didn't, which shows you exactly a type of bias that Israel deals with.

All right, let me bring in Dave. Let me bring in Dave. Bias and double standards like no other country. Okay. Present people included. All right, Dave. Okay, let me just respond to a bunch of stuff that you've said there. And you called for a moment of honesty here, which I think I'm honest every time I'm on this show.

But in the spirit of this moment of honesty, let me just be honest with you, okay? This tactic that you just used, that we all just witnessed, where first you're saying, we have let the media in. I don't know what you're talking about. 60 different crews have been let in. And then Pierce shows you a CNN foreign correspondent saying, let me just finish my point here. Then he shows you a CNN foreign correspondent saying, hey, we're not allowed in. and then you immediately turn to a character attack on her. You immediately turn to, oh, she's a bad person.

You see, she's sympathetic to Hamas or hates the Jews or something like that. People are on to that, and they're over it. Let me give you some more honest information here. For you, I'm an American. Just like you said, you're defending your country, Israel. I'm an American. Your country is on my country's welfare. We have financed and given you the weapons and the diplomatic cover and the literal protection

and vetoed the resolutions at the UN, we have protected and propped up Israel. And you have a lot of nerve to turn around and then say that we scrutinize what you do too much. I am forced against my will to pay for the destruction of Gaza, to pay for the military occupation of Palestine. And yeah, when I see videos of the military occupiers murdering a couple of surrendering people, yeah, I'm going to scrutinize that. I'm going to have an opinion on that. just absolutely outrageous that you guys sit here. When the whole world, when the whole world is watching, sir, let me be honest with you. When the whole world sees you describe the IDF as fighting terrorism,

we're all going, I don't know how dumb you think we are. The IDF, you were a spokesman for the biggest terrorist organization in the region, objectively the worst. And it's a region full of terrorist organizations. And the IDF is the worst one. The moment, I mean, you had my ear and attention and a bit of my respect until you said that nonsense, the last part of what you said. You're entitled to, that's fine. You're a spokesman for a terrorist organization, sir. I don't care about your respect. You're entitled to your opinion sitting in your comfortable office in New York or wherever.

You're entitled to have your feelings and opinions. The fact that you have them doesn't make it right. And the fact that you call the military of a nation state, a terrorist organization, I think shows how ungrounded you. are, and frankly, it's ridiculous. Yes, I made that specific remark about Clarissa. You might as well have just been quiet for 30 seconds. I said, I said, I said, I said, specifically what I said, government is a terrorist

organization. I said what I said about Clarissa, because I think it is very relevant when people who are, when people who have the role and the power as the main conduits of information that shape hearts and minds and that really tell the story of what's going on, allegedly what's going on in Gaza, when they are shown and exposed to have a very clear anti-Israeli bias, yes, that is part of the story. You didn't show that. You claimed that she got a story wrong. And people should know about that. Because I think, no, it isn't only that. And again, had it only been getting a story wrong and owning up to the mistake and saying, well, I sure got this story wrong and maybe I should look at the

other stories I got wrong, then I wouldn't have a mention it. But I mention it because I think it is part of the issue. The level of scrutiny that Israel is under by so-called journalists who are basically opinion people that have big accounts on Instagram and corporate funding in terms of networks is unprecedented. Clarissa Ward is absolutely. I will defend, listen, Jonathan, Jonathan, I will defend Clarissa Ward. She is not, as you're categorized. they got duped and CNN conceded they got duped right it was an elaborate sting to this guy to pretend to be somebody who wasn't and they got juped it happens in news and CNN immediately held their hands up and said when they investigated we got juped but when it comes to investigations I'm glad you raised that because there have been myriad investigations launched by the IDF launched by the Israeli government into allegations against the IDF and you know they almost almost universal common denominator. We never get to hear what happens to them.

We never get told the findings of all these investigations. I read out dozens of them a few months ago. Unresolved. It's just we're investigating and then they just hope everybody moves on. Did you read, Pierce, did you see on Friday? Did you see the UN committee on torture on Friday

just released a new report saying there's widespread torture of Palestinians. Hundreds of them have died. from torture in the last couple years. It's just widespread. Like, what are we even talking about you? Israel's under too much scrutiny? Yeah, the reason is... You're torturing people to death.

Well, the reason, Jonathan, that Israel is under so much scrutiny is precisely because it goes out of its way to avoid scrutiny. Right? It literally bans... I don't think that's the reason. If you're honest, it's the reason... I don't think that's the reason at all.

Well, let the journal is in. Let the journalist in the Gaza. There's a ceasefire. There's a ceasefire. I agree. And as I said, the bullshit excuse it is for the journalist's own safety, which was always bullshit because they've all reported from all sorts of wars zones, including, Florissa, who's a very, very courageous journalist.

And we've spoken about it a lot of people. Let them go in and do their jobs. I agree. I agree. And that's why you get screwed to life. No, that isn't why we get scrutinize. That isn't why international network, peers, that isn't why international networks have their biggest out of London or out of U.S. offices in Jerusalem, out of all places in the world.

That isn't why the amount of international journalist per people here is the highest ratio in the world. That isn't why news editions around the world and internet and TV and shows like yours have such a tremendous focus on Israel. It isn't because Israel tries to evade scrutiny. It has to be different things. It goes back deeper. It is rooted in history. It is rooted in the land that we're in, it's probably related to that old hatred against my people and many other things. But at the end of day, I'm not saying. All right, hang on.

Can I just respond to your please? Dave, I will let you come in, but I'm going to give it a peg to come in because actually you've perfectly timed that, Jonathan, where you try and conflate scrutiny of the Israeli government and criticism of the Israeli government with people hating Israelis or hating Jews because the anti-Semite of the year nominees have just been revealed. Christmas is peak time for online shopping sprees, but that also means it's peak time for hackers and data brokers who steal information online.

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all for $3.49 a month. It's a no-brainer. I use it, and you should too. Right now, you can get an extra four months of ExpressVPN if you go to ExpressVPN.com slash peers. That's ExpressVPN's lowest price ever, plus four extra months of service. To scan the QR code on the screen, or go to expressvpn.com What's quite interesting about this list is organized by the Stop Anti-Semitism Watchdog is just the ones that I know who have come on this show, Tucker Carlson, Cheng Yuga, Anna Kasparian, just those three alone, I've never heard them express their hatred for Jewish people. Why would they be branded anti-Semitic, even if they've been aggressively critical of the Israeli government? Now, Dave, I'll let you respond to that, because it,

really flies to the, it flies to the ongoing running sore I have about this. Because I get branded anti-Semitic, purely because I criticize Netanyahu's decision-making, which I think is completely outrageous. But it's done to silence legitimate debates. It's so pathetic, man. Like you, I think the list there, I think those are the three people I know on it, too, are Jank, Anna, and Tucker. And it's just, no, they're not anti-Semites at all.

They've never once said anything about the Jews. They've all bent over backwards to say that's not what I'm about. Miss Rachel, as far as I understand, just makes little kids like programming and feels bad for the Palestinians. It's insane that they go after her. But to Jonathan's point, even when he tied this together, look, Pierce, like, just look at these facts objectively, okay? Like, I'm trying to remove my opinion from it as much as possible. Over the last two years, Israel has essentially destroyed all of Gaza. They've expanded settlements on the West Bank in their occupied territory.

their military occupation there, and a bunch of people have been killed over there. Despite what Dave Rubin doesn't know about anything, Pierce, you were absolutely correct. There have been settlement expansions. Israel has also bombed Yemen, Lebanon, Syria, and Iran. I think I'm missing one. I think there was a seventh over the last two years. Might that be why there is some scrutiny on them, Pierce? Maybe it's not just everyone's hated by anti-Semitism. What's, okay, fine. Might there be a reason why Israel bombed at day? Did anybody attack Israel?

One second. Jonathan, I was trying to remove my own opinion and just state the objective facts. We could have that whole argument. The point is there is another reason than just every, you're talking here with Pierce Morgan, isn't a Jew hater? And me, who is Jewish, and you're invoking anti-Semitism whenever Israel gets criticism.

Maybe it's just that you guys are a rogue regime that's killing tens of thousands of people. and violating international law and also attempting to drag my country into more and more conflicts, exerting an undue amount of influence on my government. Maybe that's what's going on. And maybe you should admit this. You know, it's like you're like the person who's like a serial gambler and then says, the reason I'm losing everything is because everyone's against me.

Look at your own behavior, man. Jonathan? So I'll say this. The only thing that, you know, is worth of, I think, having a debate here is, what you said about your country, the U.S., and the relationship with Israel. And I think that's an interesting point to look into. And I would say almost the opposite. I think that Israel is, as of 1967, when Israel started winning and defeating enemies very gloriously

on the battlefield, that is when the U.S. said, hey, I like these tough guys in the Middle East. I'm going to give you weapons, and I'm going to give you diplomatic support. And I'm sure that I won't be telling you any news, but that wasn't the case when Israel was founded in 48 up until 67. We had scrap leftover weapons that we bought secondhand from the Second World War in Czechoslovakia, and we got French weapons. Some of it we manufactured by ourselves. And we had all British and American tank surplus from the Second World War fighting against advanced Russian weapons. But when we started winning, the U.S. said, oh, we like those guys in the military. Middle East, maybe they could be useful for us. And inasmuch as lots of people like to spin that

tired trope against Israel as if the dog, as if the tail is wagging the dog, it is exactly the other way around. Israel is a, you could look at it from external perspectives, and if you'd speak with Arabs, you'd probably get that point of view. Israel is like a little aircraft carrier, an American unsinkable aircraft carrier that is advancing America's goals in the Middle East and doing most, if not all, of the heavy lifting. Yes, we get American support. Yes, we get and buy American weapons.

Yes, we get American air cover in a hostile UN Security Council. But what we're doing is defending ourselves and doing very useful things for U.S. foreign policy. If you don't like the U.S. foreign policy, you as an American can vote differently, and you can have other people with other ideas in power. But as long as bipartisan support for Israel is...

All right, but just to be... Well, actually, you can, and it's been tried. But bottom line here is that what Israel is doing is actually... But Jonathan, just for the record, Jonathan. That said lobby as well. Just for the record, Jonathan. Can you just clarify that you do not think either Dave Smith or me are anti-Semites? Definitely. If you're a Jew, it's difficult to be anti-Semite, and I personally don't think that you are an anti-Semite. And I will say that you have had a truckload of anti-Semites on your show. And I would say that there is a definite dealing with anti-Semitic tropes on this show. And I think it is very, it's very interesting for people. It sells. It gets views. It gets clicks. And that constant rage baiting about Israel.

What's interesting is the Palestinian side say exactly the same thing about many of the pro-Israeli guests I've had. And that right there is the real issue. I platform people from both sides who have passionate views and the other side views many of them. I would love to debate Palestinians on your show. Yeah, but the other side views many on the pro-Israeli side as extremists. And in some cases, with good reason. So, you know, you've got to be careful how you frame these things. things like this show. This show, I would say, of all the shows in the world, I've had the most

balanced debates on this. And for that, I get it from all sides. And you know what? I wouldn't have it any other way. Jonathan, Dave, great to see you, though. Thank you very much. Thanks, Pierce. Thank you. Pierce Morgan Unsensit is proudly independent. The only boss around here is me. If you enjoy our show, we'll ask only one simple thing. Hit subscribe on YouTube and follow Pierce Morgan Unsensit on Spotify and Apple Podcast. And in return, we will continue our mission to inform, irritate and entertain.

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