Pod Save America - 1122: Fascist Mile High Club

Episode Date: February 16, 2026

Live from Sydney, Jon, Lovett, Tommy, and Dan discuss the lurid details of The Wall Street Journal exposé on Kristi Noem and Corey Lewandowski's eye-opening behavior at (and high above) the Department of Homeland Security. Then, they look at the latest with Republicans' efforts to steal the midterms, including Noem's promise to make sure "we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders," RFK Jr.'s new war on donuts, and Barack Obama's advice for Democrats on resolving their differences. Then, they stage their own debate about which Democratic presidential hopeful would be the strongest candidate, drawing names from the 2028 Sorting Hat.

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Must be an app member to qualify Booster Juice. Canadian born blending since 1999. What's up, Sydney? Welcome to Pawsave America. I'm John Fabra. I'm John Lovett. I'm Tommy V. Tor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

So this is the final stop on our hopefully just visiting tour. And in the week we've been gone from America, nothing has really happened that makes us want to go back. The president tried to arrest some members of Congress. The Attorney General handled questions about Jeffrey Epstein by screaming about the stock market. The health and human services Secretary declared war on donuts.

And even though the Department of Homeland Security is shut down, the Secretary's deportation plane is reportedly still taking trips to Poundown. That was a twist. It sure is. Making a stop. We'll talk about some of these

stories tonight, as well as Barack Obama's comments on whether aliens are real, and how Democrats can win them over. That's the secret plan. to win the election. Then we're going to stage our very own debate about which Democrat is the best choice

to be the nominee in 2028. So, yeah, something to look forward to. What did you say? Is that Newsom? Gavin Newsom's here. Stop on his way back from Munich. Stop by here. He doesn't miss a podcast.

Did somebody say Newsom? But we're going to start with the question that we keep getting asked. every year we go on this trip, which is, will Donald Trump try to steal the midterm elections? Yeah, the outlook isn't great. As we were boarding our flight the other day, Trump went on one of his insane rants about voter ID. In this instance, it was about Democrats in Congress blocking the SAVE Act, which would require all Americans to present either their passport or their birth certificate in person at an

elections office in order to vote. Trump isn't thrilled that this law is having trouble passing, so he wrote, quote, I have searched the depths of legal arguments not yet articulated or vetted on this subject, and will be presenting an irrefutable one in the very near future. There will be voter ID for the midterm elections, whether approved by Congress or not. That same day, Secretary of Homeland Security, Christy Noem, whose department has no role at administering federal elections in America, nevertheless held an election security event in Arizona,

and here's what she said. When it gets to election day that we've been proactive to make sure that we have the right people voting, electing the right leaders to lead this country. Can you offer us any good examples of this kind of fraud in Arizona? Oh, I'm sure there's many of them, but we want to make sure that we have... Yeah, that's right. So, Lovett, on one hand, really alarming.

on the other hand, she really is stupid? So what do you think? Yeah, I think alarming and stupid has sort of been our decade. So I think she has no role in administering elections

as you pointed out. And we'll talk more about her other roles. Roles later, but what is clear is like, why is she doing this? It's not because she has some secret knowledge about their plan to steal

the election. She's doing this because she thinks this is what Donald Trump wants to see her doing. This is a message event where she's trying to get headlines doing the thing that she thinks is the kind of thing that Donald Trump wants a cabinet secretary to be doing. Everything about what she does is about how it's going to look, the image, her own profile, keeping herself in Trump's favor. So what's alarming to me about this is she's a clawed and she's saying it in the most ham-fisted way possible. She's going beyond, I think, what even a Trump administration official would normally say, but it's revealing because she's saying what she believes Trump wants to hear, and I think that's right. I don't think she's wrong about that. Yeah. Tommy, as for the SAVE Act,

which has passed the House but doesn't currently have enough votes to pass the Senate, Republicans are now toying with the idea of either eliminating the filibuster or if they can't get the votes for that, forcing Democrats to do a talking filibuster where they have to physically stand on the Senate floor and keep speaking indefinitely if they want to block the bill. What do you make of that threat? And is that a good idea for Republicans? So I genuinely find the focus on this confusing. I think what Republicans would say is it's a very popular piece of legislation. They say it's like an 80-20 issue, which might be true. But I think if you asked voters a separate question, which is like, okay, Republicans are going

to blow up the U.S. Senate and the way it functions. Here's a menu of things they could do it on behalf of people would say stuff like, well, let's make some jobs or like fix the economy or make health care more affordable and more housing and not this. So moreover, like it's solving a fake problem. There is not an epidemic of non-citizens voting. I don't know if you guys have heard this, but in America, we can barely get our citizens to vote. I think like less than... Just a few minutes ago, we said Barack Obama was trying to get aliens to vote now. Changing your tune. Less than half the country turned out in the last midterm. election. But this piece of legislation would create real hurdles for citizens to get registered. There's

an organization called the Brennan Center, which is like nonpartisan voting rights activists. They said that like 21 million people could face added hardships because they didn't have easy access to the documents you would need to get registered. For example, like women who are recently married and have and changed their names might have to go through a bunch of hurdles. So it could hurt Republicans as much as Democrats in it. I know Dan is like dug into this. But regardless of Regardless, if Republicans blow up the filibuster to pass the SAVE Act, then I think Democrats will almost certainly respond in kind. And that could mean when Democrats are in charge,

passing universal mail-in ballots federally across the country, same-day registration. Hey, maybe we could take a page out of your book and do a little compulsory voting. I know you guys like that. Taxpayer-funded democracy sausages. Democracy sausage. Yes. Democracy sausage with Bluie.

We can't even get compulsory measles vaccines anymore. Well, baby steps. And then, you know, you could see Democrats passing other legislation that's not related to voting rights. So it seems it's a strange choice to me. Dan, how do you think Democrats should play it? Well, I think it's just worth explaining what this bill actually does. Like to register to vote in the United States, you can do it with only two documents, your passport or your birth certificate. And if you got married and changed your name, your birth certificate does not work.

And so as Tommy points down, I just worth noting, I think this is actually an argument to make to Republicans, because we do not want this to happen. I can make a very compelling argument that this would actually help Democrats in the short term because our base is much more likely to be college educated and wealthy. One in four people who didn't go to college has a passport. One in five people who make less than $50,000 has a passport. Conservative women changed their name after getting married at twice the rate of liberal women. And so... It still sounded pretty good. But we also like democracy, and this would be the greatest step backwards, I think, in recent memory, for voting in America.

The millions of people we disenfranchised by this. And that would... And the people, most likely be disenfranchised to people whose voices need to be heard most in the system. And so I think we have two... We have to try to stop this. I think it is very possible. They will consider finding some way to jam this through because Trump wants it. and they,

it's worth, it's worth known and most of these people are particularly stupid and they don't recognize how bad this would be for them in the short term. And they are fully convinced

because they get all their news from, all their information from Fox News that there is this epidemic of non-citizen voting. All the studies show that it comes out to 0.001% of attempts.

That even people actually voted, but non-citizens attempting to vote all the studies show it is not a thing that happens. And so we have to make a private argument because we don't want this to happen. But the public, argument, I think, is really important to because we want them to feel internal pressure to not do this.

I'm going to feel external pressure about what would happen if they do do it. And I think the argument we want to make is that Donald Trump and Republicans want to pass this law because they want to make it harder for you to vote to take away your power so that billionaires, corporations, politically connected cronies, elites, the Epstein class are the ones who get to call the shots in our government, not you. Right. I think we need to take this and put it into the context of larger narrative about how Trump is helping elites. He's exploiting a broken system, how he's corrupt, instead of trying to make just a pure what's good for democracy argument, because that has not worked out so well for us in recent years. It's crazy because we are nine months from the

midterm elections and, you know, the states administer federal elections. This thing passes. Just the amount of money and manpower it would take for every state to set up a verification system to like make sure they're verifying people's passports and birth certificates. Half the country doesn't have passports. And you think the state department after they've cut as much of the state department as they have is going to start processing passports. This quickly between. They will for red states.

Yeah. That's what's so nefarious about this is you've now taken the thing you need to vote is something the federal government controls whether you get or not. Yeah. But I don't, even if, even if they make it for red states, I think that the argument that Red States are going to be hurt by this and Trump voters are going to be hurt by this is a good one to make because it's true. Like they are like they do this. They're going to disenfranchise a whole bunch of their own voters. But everything will be a disaster. Disaster. Well, this is to register to vote. Right. So there's a question about what happens if you were already registered. But online voter registration gone. Mail and voter registration, definitely gone. Automatic voter registration, gone. To vote right now under this bill, the only way to feasibly register to vote is to walk into an elections office bearing your passport or your birth certificate. which I'm sure you all have in your home, right?

It's crazy. Ridiculous. So speaking to Christyneum, we need to talk about the incredible Wall Street Journal story that shed some light on the long-rumored extramarital affair between the Homeland Security Secretary and her most powerful advisor, former Trump campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski. So these two lovebirds have apparently been flying around

on a taxpayer-funded deportation plane with a private fuck cabin in the back. That's what's going on there. They've also been using the department's massive budget to not only terrorized communities but advanced Noem's presidential ambitions. And they've been firing any government officials who stand in their way,

including apparently a Coast Guard pilot who committed the sin of accidentally leaving Noam's Blanky in the plane. But then they had to hire him back because they had no other way to get home, which tells you everything. You can't fire the fucking pilot before you fly home.

Get another fucking blanket also. You're spending this much money on the plane and the cabin in the back. Have an extra blanket. Favorite anecdotes in this piece, guys? Anyone want to start? Tommy? So just two quick things about this. these individuals. So, Christy Noem, you guys have probably heard that she bragged about murdering her dog.

You know that part? When she was governor of South Dakota, she also greenlit an anti-drug PSA with the tagline, meth, comma, we're on it. So that's the intellectual firepower on that part of the relationship. The other half of the trist is a guy named Corey Lewandowski, who was Donald Trump's first campaign manager who got busted lying about something in the media and had to testify in front of Congress about it. And he said, quote, I have no obligation to be honest with the media. That was a quote to Congress. So these are the people we're talking about. My favorite part of the story is about this guy Corey Lewandowski who desperately wants a gun and a badge because he is a five-year-old and he wants to be a sheriff for Halloween, apparently. And he is so hell-bent on getting this gun and badge issued to him

by DHS that he has fired or pushed out people at the department that tell him he's not allowed to do it. And the reason this is so surprising that he would care so deeply is he was arrested in 1999 for bringing a gun to his office, which was Congress, and he said he forgot that it was in his laundry bag. Fucking idiot. Also, he didn't get, well, also, this is also my favorite anecdote. he used the auto pen to sign the permit to get the gun. Then he did not actually get the gun.

People realized that maybe that was not a good idea. But he's been spotted by and the badge around town. Yeah, he still got the badge. You wears the badge in the bedroom? And the bed in the back? I don't want to think about the roles they're playing. Cops and robbers. Yeah, like the thing that the the, the, the, the,

the desire that she seems to have to want to run for president and the fact that she is truly like she just isn't bright like she's just not capable of putting together the pieces like to me when I like read the piece what you take away from it is this is somebody that is trying to like uh gain like total control over this department but does not have the intellect skills uh capability of actually administering it so it's creating problems all around her and those problems are embarrassing both to her personally and to the president. And so she can only react by trying to fire people, hastily pulled together conferences where she's standing in front of like pallets of supplies or like flying around the country trying to do press conferences to impress Donald Trump.

But like every, everything she touches seems to turn to shit. She's got, she's overseeing a budget that is now the size of the Israeli militaries because they got all this, ICE got all this funding. She is, according to this piece, using the budget or trying to use the budget to run hundreds of millions of dollars worth of ads to burnish her reputation. They were trying to use all the deportations and make sure that they film all the deportations, like all the cruel, awful deportation porn that the DHS is putting out on social media. This was like originally conceived to help Christine Nome's presidential ambitions.

And then when they realized that this actually wasn't helping that much because they killed to Americans, then she decided to pivot to FEMA to the Federal Emergency Management Association and pay attention to that. And so she started going to like, even though she didn't care about that at first, she started going to all these press conferences, although she told everyone when the winter storm was coming, don't say the word ice about the winter storm because you don't want to confuse it for the ice agency because that's not really popular right now. So that's what's going on at DHS right now, which is now shut down temporarily, I guess,

because they don't want to accede to the Democratic. Democrats demands for ICE agents taking off their masks and following the law and the Constitution and making sure that they try to get a warrant before they break into people's homes. Yeah, their red line in negotiation is having warrants from judges, which is a problem because that's also a red line in the Constitution. So they're on the wrong side of a very bright red line. There's also a moment where, and I didn't, I forgot that this had happened, where it was after the killing of Alex Pretti, they're at a cabinet meeting. and in those meetings where Trump goes from person to person,

getting them to praise him, he skipped over Christy Knoem in the meeting, which is basically like getting a kiss on the cheek from fucking Al Capone, you know? But she's still got a job. He hasn't fired yet. Well, it's just worth honing it on just how fucking banana it is that he gave her the job to begin with. His number one priority is immigration. This is one of the most powerful biggest agents in the world.

He picks someone who has no experience in immigration. She's a governor of South Dakota. I've spent a lot of time in South Dakota politics. The only immigration in South Dakota you worry about is people sneaking across the Minnesota border. It is the South Dakota budget. The DHS budget is nine times larger

than the state of South Dakota's budget. And the DHS workforce is 20 times larger than the South Dakota state employees. Wow. Like she's so in over her head over this. And he only gave it to her because his former campaign manager who is her alleged boyfriend

and wants to be her alleged campaign manager who runs for president, convinced him to do something. First dude. First dude. I think he's second. And I think he knows that Stephen Miller is really in charge of the Department of Homeland Security. And I think that Stephen Miller, I know.

And I think Miller probably likes the fact that he's got a dummy running DHS that will do whatever he says. And he wouldn't want someone that was like pushing back and being competent trying to run the thing. Yeah. The like the core mistake is like she was so focused on getting attention and getting pressed that she is the one that was driving. the sensationalist coverage, the big, glossy fucking raids, the helicopters. She's the one that goes down to Sikot, stands there with a gold Rolex on her wrist. She's the one that wants Bovino, and all of that has, like, come back on them so terribly. So she's just tarred from this.

But she's not the one deciding how many people they're trying to deport. That is the administration's policy. She's not doing good PR for them. But Stephen Miller is the reason they have a mass deportation policy. And they can gussy it up. You could swap out Bovino for Tom Homan. If you're trying to deport millions of people, you're going to be deporting people that are just here to do work and do jobs. There's not enough criminals in the world for them to round up.

And so, like, they'll put like a, you know, they'll try to kind of have her be the fall person for this. But they're doing what the White House wants them to be doing. Glad to have someone look terrible while doing it for them. Yeah. All right. We will be back with more news right after this. This episode of Pod Save America is brought to you by Grata. Everyone knows I love to cook for my friends.

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I'm hanging up. Booster Juice names of the day is back. Two names are selected each day. And if your name matches, you can get a free smoothie or an assay bowl. Watch for your name on the Booster Rewards app and social. media must be an app member to qualify booster juice canadian porn blending since 1999 access storage presents team canada snowboarder mark mcmoris it's a huge honor to call myself an olympic medalist and an even bigger honor to be a three-time Olympic medalist to do those all under the maple leaf is incredibly

special and i'm eternally grateful thank you canada for your continued support it's a huge honor to represent our country. Keep cheering. Let's go Canada. Access Storage. Official storage partner of Team Canada. Australia and America. Separated by an ocean, but bound by history. We both rejected the British crown,

some of us more than others. And we rid ourselves of their fussy, uptight accents, instead choosing to let our vowels do whatever. In many ways, we both take pride in being wild countries with larger-than-life people and political mayhem to match, which is why it's time for a game we're calling, Arnard, what a shit char. American and Australian political controversies and scandals. Okay, here's how it's going to work.

I'm going to come out there. I have questions for all of you about American mayhem. I have question for my best boys about Australian political mayhem. And we will see who knows each other. countries better. Okay, everybody ready? All right. To be clear, we are learning the name of this game, the substance of it,

all of this for the first time. They truly have no idea what these questions are. They are learning this in real time. Genuinely, it has been kept from them all day. Okay. All right, who would like to answer a question for Australia?

I would like no expats piece. I better hear the fucking accent. I came a long way. All right, your hand went up. I'm coming all the way up. Here we go. Hi, what's your name? Oh, hi, what's your name?

Olivia. Olivia. Where are you from? Sydney. Cool. All right. In 1979, U.S. President Jimmy Carter was vacationing near his home in Plains, Georgia

when he used a canoe paddle to defend himself against an attacker who had managed to penetrate his secret service perimeter. Who was that attacker? Was it A, a crazed member of the infamous Manson family? B, a swamp rabbit. C, a right-wing militiaman from a nearby compound, or D, a white-dosepherson.

tailed American deer. Okay. So. Wow. Wow. So you're saying be a swamp rabbit. That's correct. It was a swamp rabbit.

In what became known as the, quote, killer rabbit attack, said one Carter-Safford to the Times, the president was swinging for his life. Here is a piece that ran about the incident in the Washington Post illustrated with a parody poster for pause. Now here's something interesting. Only one photo of the incident exists that Carter White House refused to release it, but when Ronald Reagan

took office, his administration released the rabbit files. Nice. Which show here, Jimmy Carter splashing. Over there on the right is the rabbit. Only one photo exists of him trying to keep the rabbit at bay.

All right. Now Bad funny. Bad Nice. All right. John Dan Tommy, the Harold Holt Memorial Swimming Center is a pool in Melbourne, Australia. It is named in honor of Prime Minister Harold Holt after he unexpectedly passed in 1967.

How did he die? Was he, A, bitten by the deadly Sydney Funnel Web Spider while on a bushwalk? Was it, B, a heart attack while traveling from Canberra to Tasmania? Was it C drowned while swimming in rough surf off Cheviot Beach in Victoria, or D stung by the Iroconji jellyfish inadvertently added to marine aquarium at the opening of the since demolished Manly Sea Life Sanctuary?

C. C. It is C. You people named a swimming pool after a prime minister who drowned. That's awesome. Follow up. There has long been a conspiracy theory that Harold Holt did not die in the water that day.

What is the most prominent alternate theory? Is it A, he was abducted by aliens? B, he faked his own death to start a new life in America. C, he actually died in a motel with a prostitute. Or D, he was grabbed by the Chinese. C? C. No, it's D.

The Chinese got him? The Chinese got him? The theory is that he was. was in fact a Chinese spy who escaped Australia on a Chinese submarine. How many people here believe that? Wow, a lot of hands. That's why you need Ocus.

A lot, that's why you need Ocus. You gotta defend yourselves. You don't want those French diesel submarines. Now, his widow, Zara Holt, had to refute this allegation. What did she say to deny that her husband was a Chinese spy? someone called it up she scoffed and said her husband didn't even like Chinese food all right let's come up here we're here would like to answer a question hi what's your name

Margaret Margaret that's that's a thick where are you from where are you from I'm from Bexley North how far is that from here that's half an hour's drive because my my understanding is the further you get from here the thicker the accent. Is that about right? Okay. Depends with direction. I guess out to C, it gets less. In 1992, President George H. W. Bush attended a state dinner hosted by the Japanese Prime Minister. What went wrong? Do you know? I'll give you the, I can give you clues. Was it A, he fell asleep during the Prime Minister's toast. Was it B, he accidentally insulted the Emperor? Was it C, he tried to open a ceremonial urn that was in fact 3,000 years old, cracking it in several

places, or D, did he vomit into the Prime Minister's lap and faint? What do you think? He vomited into the Prime Minister's lap and fainted. That's correct. Nailed it. Yep. George Bush

had a chunder. How's that? That picture is so bad. It really is. What is Barbara doing? I'll tell you what Barbara Bush is doing. She's being a first lady, because she did not care if he lived or died, she was going to hide his face.

She looks like he's trying to snuff him out. Yeah, she really, she doesn't, she jumped. If you watch the video, everybody, she jumps in. She jumps in, like, she dives like in front of a bullet for George, well, in a sense. That's cool. That's cool. Wow. All right, John, Dan, Tommy.

Former Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawk held a Guinness World Record before entering politics. What was it for? Four, was it A, most sausages eaten at a cricket match? B, longest continuous speech on the floor of Parliament. C, fastest consumption of a yard of beer, or D, longest distance swum in open water, not including Holt. What do you think, Dan? What do you think? Speech?

I have no clue, don't look at me. Do you want to weigh in here, John? Hey, stop helping them. Look how Hanson there. They've everything so blessed. What do you think? Can you give us the pounding beer? That's correct.

That's right. The fastest consumption for the help. Thank you for the help. He did it in about 11 seconds. A record he said while studying in Oxford. Hawk later said this feat was to endear me to some of my fellow Australians more than anything else I ever achieved.

Here we have a video of him later. That's amazing. He gets, look at that. Look at that. Gets that whole thing down. Look at this guy. There's a torso. American politicians take note.

I know, really. Follow up. All right. Future Prime Minister Paul Keating was Hawk's treasurer. He recalled arriving for a meeting with the PM in a full suit, sweating to find Hawk in what condition? How did they find? It was a hot summer.

day. Passed out? Nope. Naked? Yep. Naked by the pool, he was naked for their meeting. I feel like that one probably feels less endearing over time, right? Speaking of seeing members in unexpected places,

who in the audience would like to go next? I'll come up there. Someone raise your hand. Someone raised their hand. Someone raised their hand. I'm coming over here. Okay. Hi, hi. What's your name? Elizabeth. In 2007, Republican Senator Larry Craig of Idaho was arrested for lewd conduct in a men's bathroom at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, accused of soliciting sex from an undercover officer in the next stall. He pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct and tried to withdraw the plea.

What was his public defense? Was it A, he was reaching under the stall divider to pick up a fallen piece of paper. he was tapping his foot B to the music on his headphones C, he just has a wide stance Or D, he thought the person in the next stall Was having a medical emergency No

No, you got it wrong It was C, he had a wide stance Wide stance Here he is at the press conferences With his poor sad wife Oh Do you guys remember that? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. That didn't make it to Australia. Do you guys know about this? Wow. It was bleak. It was pretty bleak. There had been a reporter that had been traveling around

trying to find evidence that Larry Craig had done this at other places throughout D.C. Did he get off? I'm not sure. I mean, not that day. Follow up. What happened after he announced his intention to resign? He just didn't. He just never left.

Just stayed till the end of his term. All right. For John, Dan, and Tommy, on the 30th of November of 2022, the Australian House voted to censure former Prime Minister Scott Morrison. Why they don't? Boo. Why was he censured? A, for secretly holding multiple ministerial positions while serving as prime minister. B, for his handling of the

August submarine deal with the United States. C, for his missteps during the COVID vaccine rollout, or D, for vacationing in Hawaii during the country's catastrophic bushfires. All of them? I thought it was for shitting his pants in McDonald's driver. There it is.

There it is. We thought it was for shitting his pants at the McDonald's. What do you think? Was it all of them? It was, actually, it could have been. It could have been, but it was. technically. They're all true, but only one was the reason he was censured.

Oh. Hawaii? No. It actually wasn't. It was for secretly holding multiple ministerial positions. How many extra jobs did he secretly have? It was five. He was the health minister, the finance minister, the resources minister, the home affairs

Minister and the treasurer. Now, I have a question for the crowd. Okay, you censored you censured Scott Morrison. Why did your Governor General not get any fucking shit for secretly signing off on this? Why do you never come

for the King's representative? Why didn't you? Where's the censure for that guy? He's been on this the whole trip. He hates this Governor General. I hate this Governor General thing. You're a proud people here in get rid of the fucking crown it's outrageous

this is one of the greatest cities in the fucking world look what you're building all around you so check with the king to make sure it's okay some okay some thick fingered inbred freak in London finish your revolution

please hey Donald Trump's our president you know yeah I know it makes me so sad all right follow up

John, Dan Tommy. Scott Morrison did face a massive scandal for vacationing during the black summer bushfires and that killed 33 people directly, hundreds more indirectly as a result of smoke. What were some of the criticisms he faced? A, his office did not notify the public, who was acting prime minister, B, his office initially denied he was on holiday in Hawaii. C, for saying, thankfully, we've had no loss of life while visiting Kangaroo Island where two people had died, or D, for saying before he'd even made it back to Australia from his trip, quote, I don't hold a hose mate and I don't sit in a control room. This feels like an all of the above situation.

All the above. You got it. Yeah. All right. Who over here who wants to answer a question about America? You're pointing at people. All right. Where's that Australian confidence? All right. Hi, what's your name? Rachel. Rachel. Texas Republican... Where are you from?

Kangaroo Valley. Woo! You guys have a local chief. Where is that? How far is that from here? Like two hours if you go fast. Okay. By kangaroo. By kangaroo. Right.

There's a, there's Americans, you know, we really kind of, the kangaroo looms large in the child's mind for an American. And I think every American child becomes an adult when we find out that the pouches are gross. What do you think about that? What do you think about that? Yeah, they're gross. Well, you know more about wombat's. We actually don't have to be. Do you know that wombat's poop or cubes?

Yeah, of course, yeah. Cool. They don't know why? No one knows why it's a cube. That woman thinks she knows. All right. She doesn't know. She's a fucking liar.

All right. Texas Republican Ted Cruz faced his own vacation scandal for flying to Cancun during Winter Storm Uri, which knocked out power for millions of Texans and killed an estimated 246 people. He initially blamed his daughters saying he was chaperoning them on a trip they'd asked for, but that was later shown to be false. How was it proven to be false? Was it A, his daughters did an Instagram live to refute the allegation? Was it B, their neighbors leaked the group chat? Was it C, he actually forgot his daughters at home, home alone style?

Or D, Ted Cruz emailed the proposed itinerary to Jeffrey Epstein. That's incorrect. It was the group chat. Yeah, it's always the group chat. It's always the group chat. The leaked group chat showed that Heidi Cruz had organized the trip, inviting others to join them at the Ritz. When asked about the leaf text, Ted Cruz called his neighbors, assholes.

All right, John, Dan, Tommy, Johnny... Oh, there he is. There's Ted. There is Ted. Nice mask. Nice mask. Johnny Depp and his then-wife, Amber Hurd, brought their two Yorkshire terrors into Australia without a quarantine declaration.

Agriculture Minister Barnaby Joyce issued a public threat. What was that threat? Was it A, a $100,000 fine per dog, B, Depp had to film a public apology video or face prosecution. C, leave or I kill the dogs. Or D. Depp was banned from entering Australia for five years. Oh, what do you think? What did Barnaby Joyce threaten Johnny Depp?

Pre-cancellation. Depp. Jack Sparrow. I remember this because there was like helicopter footage of the house where they were staying. It was like a big deal. It was a big deal. Those Yorkies. I think it's the jail or the band?

Kill the dogs? Correct. Wow. Good job. The dogs would be euthanized within 72 hours if Depp didn't take them out of the country. Mr. Depp has to either take his dogs back to California or we're going to have to

euthanize them. The dogs were flown out. Depp later insulted Joyce by saying he looked like he was inbred with what vegetable? You guys remember? Shout it. Tomato. Look at them. I think we read in that.

That's fair. I think we read in that artificially. You know that wrong? Point to Johnny Depp on that one. Yeah, Johnny Depp got him. You're all good. Pod Save America is brought you by Armour Colostrum. Armour Colostrum is nature's original solution.

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Now, it wasn't that long ago that Michelle Obama let a campaign to encourage Americans to eat healthier foods to get more exercise. At the time, Republicans said you could pry the cheese doodles from their cold, dead weak bloated hands. But all that has changed because now we're making America healthy again as only the Trump administration knows how by fucking it up completely. And so it's time for OK, stop.

We'll start with a man, a donut, and a surprise special appearance by an infamous athlete. What are you thinking doing? Process food kills. Remember that. Okay, stop. That is what is happening in

America. War on Donuts. He looks so genuinely pissed. Like that slap does not seem like a stage slap. Do you guys do who Mike Tyson is? He's the scariest motherfucker to walk this planet in whenever it was that he was at his prime. And not one of our most upstanding American either. No.

No. Yeah. I mean, I guess when he technically, Evander Holyfield's ear is not processed. No, it's true. That is true. That's farm to table, baby. There's no joy in that look he's given us right now. Well, he fucking hates donuts.

He hates donuts. It is just wild that they have declared war on donuts. Because can you imagine if, well, Michelle Obama tried to tell people to eat healthy. And she was roundly criticized by the Republican Party. Yeah, imagine the outcry if some bisexual female soccer player did a press conference and knocked a donut at an AOC's hand. and said, we're not eating these anymore. It would just lead Fox News for the rest of our fucking lives. Lives, yeah, yeah.

This just came and went one day. People barely, barely registered. It was on the Super Bowl. Well, yeah, the other one was, yeah. Also, if you're, let's say you're just taking this generous, like you're just taking this at face value. Like, what? You don't know.

If you're like, who is being persuaded to not eat a donut by this advertisement? No one. Like, fear of physical violence. that man will come to your house next up milk you know from cows Trump can tell you all about it specifically whole milk

and we'll let him explain I open a refrigerator say milk with rice and milk with water and milk with everything and I say what kind of milk is it that's what I like right there it's actually a legal definition

whole milk and it's whole with a W for those of you that have a problem most of the media will get up Okay, stop. What is the problem? What problem would they have with the milk with an H? With the W.

I think this is the first time he discovered that. I genuinely do. I think today was the day he learned that whole, meaning the entirety of the item, is not the same as whole in the ground. Yeah. Also, he opens the fridge and sees milk, and he doesn't think that would go well with a delicious cookie

or some cereal. He thinks it pairs with rice. No, no. What I think is he is just discovering alternative milks and he doesn't know what they are. Oh. So it's like oat milk, almond milk, soy milk. Milk with rice. Right. Yeah.

I think he makes it's rice milk. Yeah. I just think he's confused. What? Yeah. Because then he goes, because this is the one I like right here and he points at the jug of milk that is off camera. I like, I realize while watching this video, like, Trump is so disconnected from normal life. Like, forget not driving a car or going.

to a supermarket, does he open fridges? Like, does he know what happened? Like, does he ever, like, maybe other than a drink fridge, like a compact drink fridge filled with diacoges? No, someone brings him a diacrope. Yeah, no one's, he presses a button. He's not doing that himself. So he doesn't open a fridge and look for food to eat.

He presses the Diet Coke button. Right. So I don't think he's thinking, I think when he, I think he thinks in fridges is rice. I also think he probably has not had milk in any form in 70 years. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. Like no cereal, no glass of milk, no milk in your coffee. I don't think he drinks coffee.

He washes down the cookies with Diet Coke for sure. Yeah. I think that part's cool. I mean, this also is worth it is that this was the executive order to allow people to drink raw milk. Right. Which has cow shit in it as far as I can tell. Yeah. Just the natural selection will kick in.

Presumably at some point drinking raw milk straight from the utter. He's not drinking it. That's for sure. Of course, with Trump, as always, best do as he says, but not as he does, because as RFK Jr. has observed, he eats like there's no tomorrow. Who has the most unhinged eating habits? The president. He eats really bad food, which is McDonald's, and then, you know, candy and Diet Coke. But he eats the drinks a diet Coke all times. He is a constitution of a deity. I don't know how he's alive. If you travel with him, you get this idea.

that he's just pumping himself for poison all day long. From your mouth to God's ears. What I like about this, though, is like, is there no part of this that causes RFK Jr. to question his priors? Because there's Donald Trump in his late 70s,

like boundless energy, eating nothing about French fries and burnt ground beef all day, every day, nothing but aspartame, diet coke, and he's, like, running a mile of mineral in the sky. Meanwhile, RFK Jr. never doesn't seem like he's on the verge of collapse. Having nothing but, like, kimchi and raw milk. Yeah, ferments.

He's fermints. Yeah, kimchi, among other fermints, yes. Pumping himself full of poison all day long. I mean, it's also just worth just mentioning, like, what this is all about, right? Like this is the donut thing. RFK Jr. here. The raw milk is the Make America Healthy Again movement,

which has taken over large parts of our politics and is probably the fact that all of these wellness people ended up as Republicans. There's like a massive failure of the Democratic Party. Big time. Yeah. Well, just like the person who is the primary like the number one food influencer in America, this woman named Food Babe. That's her. She was sat behind RFK.

at his confirmation hearings. She was an Obama delegate in 2008, 2012. Oh, wow. And just we, even though, like, we have led on this stuff, we just, like, stop talking to these people. And the, we wouldn't give them, we wouldn't give them raw milk. We wouldn't, well, the people like RFK Jr. pushed them into the, like, like, the algorithm will take you on a journey from, like,

healthy. Vaccine skepticism is where I think of the, yeah, it takes you there. We want our raw milk and we want measles. Well, it starts with, like, how do I get, like, chemical-free sunscreen for my kids? or how do I, you know, how to feed my kids healthy and the algorithm takes you? And then you're at vaccine skepticism. You're at raw milk. Then you're supporting Donald Trump.

And the thing that's crazy is like this, like eating, not eating processed foods, that's a good thing, right? Donuts are kind of delicious, but that's not the point. But is, that doesn't do you any good if you have an administration just lets chemical companies pollute your air and water. Yeah. Like as we've seen in a, like this is like to me a good. example too. Like there was a long-running failure of the establishment to address like legitimate

concerns about the chemicals in our foods and the the proliferation of processed foods. There were no consequences for switching to skim milk. Like, look, there's good reasons for people to not be drinking whole milk every fucking day. But like we cut fat from all kinds of foods and then America gained a trillion pounds. And like we're paying a huge price for it now. And, this now like this there is real reason for people to be like wait a second why didn't we address some of these things why didn't we pull some of these chemicals out of course these people are also going after like what is a threat to our society it's like it's not an occasional donut people should have a fucking fuzzle it's it's measles it's measles it's measles but even on the

chemicals and the food they have done absolutely nothing on the regulatory they've made it worse they've made it worse and so it's all just about like personal responsibility yeah you have a public service message from mike tyson telling you to get the donut out of your mouth Right. Well, it's just forever chemicals all the way down. And you have the president not leading by example. Which is cool. And yes, who better to take health advice from than RFK Jr. A man who always looks, sounds like he's the sole survivor of a cruise ship sinking and was just rescued from a life raft found on the open seas.

I'm not scared of a germ. You know, I used to snort cocaine off a toilet disease. Okay, stop. Again, I just, I want to know the situation where he was snoring the cocaine off the toilet seats. We're presuming he spilled cocaine on the toilet seats. That was what I've been saying. I think that he spilled it on the toilet seat. He says plural. And he was, yeah, well, maybe it happened a couple times.

He needed a flat surface in a, in the studio 54 bathroom. So many other flat surfaces besides the toilet seat. The floor, the tank, his keys. He was going to say, his credit cards. Maybe he likes to cut his. cocaine with butt. Maybe there's something thrilling about it, something dangerous and

exciting about snorting cocaine off a toilet seat. Don't knock until you try it, Dan. Sorry, what was that? Anyway, this is the person in charge of public health. A man who doesn't really worry about germs because of the places

he used to do, cocaine. The donut will kill you though. Yeah, watch out for the donut. Watch out for a little sugar and frosting after, you know, a little treat at the end of the day. Go fuck yourself. And that's okay, stop.

All right, so there's no shortage of Democratic leaders sounding off about what the party should be doing right now. Our old boss, Barack Obama, just sat down for an interview with our with our good friend Brian Tyler Cohen, which is making waves mostly for this exchange.

Are aliens real? They're real, but I haven't seen them, and they're not being kept in, what is it? Area 51. There's no underground facility unless there's this enormous conspiracy, and they hit it from the President of the United States. What was the first question you wanted answered when you became president? Where are the aliens? What are the aliens?

So for some reason that we can talk about, Obama after this took the rare step of clarifying what he meant there in a follow-up post. I can't remember him ever doing this. Where he said that he was, quote, just trying to stick with the spirit of the speed round. Which has always been a passion of his. Yes. and all he meant was that, quote,

statistically the universe is so vast that the odds are good, there's life out there, but that, quote, I saw no evidence during my presidency that extraterrestrials had made contact with us, period, really, period. That should clear things out, I think. Tommy, you've been privy to more highly classified government secrets than the rest of us.

What do you think is going on here? you buying his answer Did someone get to him? I'm wondering that too I mean I look I don't want to disappoint the kind of X-Files ancient alien stands out there

That's what I expect you to say Yeah right Yeah I look I do not think that Barack Obama was just sort of like Casually confirming the existence of aliens In the 44th minute Of a 47 minute YouTube interview in the speed round

Right like I love Brian He's like a actually dear friend of mine I don't think Obama gave him The scoop of the the century in the speed round of the interview. I think what he's referencing there is Lovick can get into this too. The Drake equation, the universe is very large. There's a lot of stars.

There's even more planets. Many of them may be habitable. You do a little math. Dipsy do. Probably some life out there. Maybe they're too far away to contact them. Maybe they came and went and we're all in different eras. We don't know.

Now, maybe I'm an unwitting tool of the. the deep state. And the deep state... The deep state is deeper than we ever could have imagined. But mostly what I learned in government is I believed less and less in

conspiracy theories like this because people can't keep a secret and shit leaks constantly. And if they were... If Donald Trump knew that aliens existed, he would have monetized it by now. They would be an alien crypto coin. Yeah.

They would never tell him. There's, look, there's three possibilities. there are aliens and they didn't tell Barack Obama. There are aliens and they didn't tell Barack Obama. Or there are aliens and they did tell Barack Obama, but they didn't tell Donald Trump. Yeah. Donald Trump would not have been able to keep it secret.

Yeah. I actually, it wasn't until he put out the clarifying statement that I was convinced in my bones that there are aliens and Barack Obama knows about them. 100% of all the things to clarify Have you ever in a decade seen him clarify

something like this? I know exactly what happened here he went from having an entire White House comms office to one guy who was like I'm so sick of dealing with the incoming calls on this shit let's just get an Instagram up

and like do it. Spokesman for the deep state Tommy Vitor It was a fast clarification too We were like 24 hours out of that interview When I said yes What I actually meant was I actually read something about

Fermi's paradox and anyway Obama also had some thoughts on the more earthly challenges that we're facing particularly what the Democratic Party is facing and he talked a lot about that in this interview at some point you age out

you're not connected directly to the immediate struggles that folks are going through Democrats do well when we have candidates who are plugged into the moment, to the zeitguists, to the times. And the particular struggles that folks are thinking about as they look towards the future rather than look backward toward the past. Voters are not going to agree with us 100% on everything. And so it is not a sellout.

it's not a betrayal to say that we're going to shape our agenda and our message in a way that allows us to build a working majority to get stuff done. And I think particularly around social issues, sometimes we get confused around this. Our long-term goals have to be driven by our values and our core beliefs and our ethics and our morals in the sense that every person counts. And short-term, we've got to win elections. are doing such crazy stuff that it shouldn't be hard for our side to coalesce around the areas where we agree on and focus on that.

That is going to happen. If we are effective in winning the midterms, if we then have a robust primary for who's going to be the next Democratic president, we shouldn't be afraid of having a robust debate. So, Dan, at the beginning there, he was talking about Democrats needing younger candidates. And he said he didn't have a hard and fast rule, but that perhaps the party should look to younger candidates. Perhaps. He was trying to be. You were in college during the Dust Bowl.

He was trying to be as polite as possible there, but that's what he was referencing. What did you think about his answer there? Well, it's obviously true, right? I mean, there is, you can trace almost all of the problems the Democratic Party, and frankly, the country have had over the last decade by the fact that the Democratic Party has been led by establishment politicians in their 70s, right? It's just is, and that comes in two forms. One, three forms, actually. The first one Obama makes this really important point, which is the longer you've been in politics, the more detached you are from the everyday struggles of people. Obama used to tell us in 2008 that if he had lost that election, he would not really.

be able to run again four years later because he would have been so removed from what, like, gave him real power was that he and Michelle had just finished paying off their student loans at that point. It had only been a couple years earlier they were struggling to make their mortgage. Like he knew what it was like to struggle. And if you've been in politics for 20, 30, 40, 50 years, you just don't know that, right? Second, you know, we tell you all the time that politics is downstream from culture, and that's kind of a trait saying.

But it is true in that you need candidates who can, who are connected to the cultural zykeyes who can understand who can relate to people who can communicate about things other than just policy issues that relate to people. Obama was great at that. Our last couple nominees have not been great at that. And then the third thing is you need someone, a younger person is inherently going to be better at communicating in the modern way, right? Someone who knows how to communicate and how people communicate now, right? They understand TikTok, Instagram, YouTube. They understand memes. They just can do it in a way that if you've been in politics for 30, 40 years, you cannot. Joe Biden did understand one single bit of how people

communicated now, and that was a huge detriment. Now, I think there's one thing important here, which is young people are more likely to do those things. They're certainly more likely to be culturally connected, to be like maybe even cool. But it's not a guarantee that all younger people are. J.D. Vance is very young. And he is a fucking goober. Good point. Yeah. It is though, it is a function of not just age, but the amount of time you've been in Washington. I do think that is a really good point because when you spend your life in Congress or you spend your life in Washington, like you just, you have a different lifestyle than most people in the country. And even if you got there knowing exactly how people in your district or

where you're from are living, like you just lose touch with that after a while and you see that with people in Congress. Like that's what the way. That's the one exception. He is the exception. I said this because of Bernie actually, right? Because Bernie's are, but like Bernie's lifestyle when he goes back to Vermont is very much the same. Like he's still he's still very much connected with the life that he had before right like Bernie is like and so I don't think it's I don't think it's impossible to be in public service for a long time and and still like and lose touch completely but you still have to work at it and I think Bernie proves like the exception to the rule right there. Um, uh, love it. Do you agree with the, uh, do you agree with Obama on the, on the value of the

inter-party fighting and the robust debate, as he said? Yes. It is absolutely true that I think the Democratic Party that emerged from the primaries in 2007-2008 was a stronger Democratic Party. I think both the party writ large and also the Obama campaign benefited from the fact that Barack Obama campaigned across the country, including through a lot of swing states and built a big organization. I do think, first of all, the differences in politics.

policy between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were much smaller, especially on domestic policy. They just were. But at the same time, those debates got pretty fucking messy at the end. And party had to be stitched back together. Everybody did that. That worked. That's great. I think like we have to have, be honest about the ways in which intra-party fights play out now, and they can be like really, really cutting, really enervating. And that's okay. I just don't want to pretend that that's not the situation. And so to me, okay, that's what social media will do. We can say that's not real life, but it becomes real life.

What is a politician do to address that? And I think it becomes incumbent on anyone who's going to be part of a Democratic primary in 2008, in 27, obviously, to beginning, middle and end, be talking about the fact that at the end of this process, we will be stitching this movement together that we're all on the same side. And I think we have to overcorrect for that in a certain way. And I actually think that often becomes a cudgel used to go after the left to say, like, you need to unify, you need to unify, you need to unify. I think they do. And I think that's a fine argument to make.

But at the same time, I think more center-left politicians should become more comfortable speaking with talking to parts of the party that are not going to be part of their coalition and maybe kind of hostile to them. But even if they get hostility toward them, speak about them as if they're part of their coalition and that their voices matter and are valued. I think that has to be kind of overcorrection that people do because I am worried about what happens in a kind of brutal, long primary in which everyone is extremely anxious, extremely upset about what's happening to the country, extremely worried about our ability to win. And so that to me is part of what it will be, the leader of the party will have to do. I mean, I worry about it from the other side too, from the left. Like, yeah, well, because you, I mean, it's just, it's different arguments, right? the center left, if it's a center left politician, and they will say like, oh, well, the left, the left, the left are politician, the more progressive politician can't win. This is hopeless now.

Why are we nominating this person? This is bad. We're going to lose. They're not electable. And so, like, they have to think about that. On the left, you get, like, this person's a sellout. They're no better than the Republican candidate. So it goes both way. No, no. I told, and I, like, I am confident, like, it is not the leaders. elected leaders on the left that are making those arguments. No, that's true. And there's nobody that fought harder for Joe Biden, even, I think, a little too long than AOC and Bernie,

which is like to their credit. And so like, we can't make every activist or every person do the right thing in either directions. Plenty of people that are, you know, that have loud platforms that are not going to be responsible. That's just part of it. I'm talking about what the elected leaders do. And I actually think they can do a good job of kind of at least modeling the kind

of behavior we need. In fact, I think the two elected leaders that did the best job of modeling that were Biden and Bernie in 2020. Absolutely. Absolutely. They both did a lot of work. Tommy, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, the intra-party fights are always the worst and the most vicious. And that's true for the right and the left. And in part because it's just you care what those critics say. Like when Ben Shapiro calls me like a Tehran Tommy on Twitter, I don't give a shit because I think he's a moron and he's annoying.

But when like, did he do that all the time? But when people on the left criticize you, you're like, oh, that's. hurts. Like, I respect those people. That kind of, that stings of it. I do, though, think, like, I think the biggest mistake of all is when the kind of DC class decides that they're going to anoint someone. And I think that the reason, part of the reason, some of the 2016 fights feel like they will never end is one, if we had won, all is forgiven, but we lost. You guys remember that. But two, there is a feeling that is, I don't think, fully accurate, but not totally unfounded on the left that the primary process was unfair and rigged against Bernie Sanders.

And that has let this perception linger. So ultimately, I think we need messy primaries. I think you can read all the polls you want, but the rubber meets the road when people vote. And that's when we really learn what people care about and what politicians are good. And the 2008 primary stripped a decade off our lives collectively, but it was great for Barack Obama. It made him a better candidate made him a better president. I just, I agree with Love it was saying, like, the thing we have to avoid or just call out is the suggestion that you are immoral or a bad person or it's a character attack if you disagree on policy. That stuff is bullshit. Yeah. I agree with the contours around the debate we should have, but we should be brutally honest. The Democratic Party is in a state of crisis,

right? We have currently have no path to this kind of governing majority we would need to actually defeat MAGA. We have a Senate cap of 53 seats maybe. In 2032, the electoral college is going to move 15 to 20 votes in the Republican direction. Like our current electoral coalition, even if it has improved since Trump lost, is not sufficient to actually build a governing majority. We have to have a giant debate. Our party leadership is out of touch and sclerotic and we don't have the infrastructure we need. We have to have a big, giant, messy debate about who we are, what we stand for and we should be in charge of this party. Because if we don't, we are, we may, we literally, we really could win in 2028 simply because

Donald Trump sucks and JD Vance sucks even more. But that is, that is a, that is just what happened in 2020, which is we, we, we won one presidency. We didn't solve any of our problems and we were right back where we were before. So we need to like think big. And we're only going to think big. We have a big messy primary and we are open to out of the box ideas, candidates who may not seem electable right away. We just have to like have a lot of humility and open.

to a real messy, important debate. Yeah, I agree with that, but a messy debate is, we can't have the future you want without a messy debate, but a messy debate is no guarantee that people show up to the table with what we need. That's right. And so that, like to me, yeah. Well, I think Obama's point there that I found very important is when he said, we have to realize that, you know, not 100% of voters are going to agree with everything we said,

which seems like an obvious point. But I think that wherever you stand in the Democratic Party from your vantage point, you think that like, oh, yeah, my position is actually the position that is most popular in the party and that can carry the whole party. And it's just, and the other politicians don't actually realize that because they're at fault. And the truth is, like, it's a very demographically, politically, diverse coalition. And it has become more demographically and politically diverse, partly because it has to be so broad to beat Donald Trump's coalition right now. Now, like, we are just a much more diverse coalition than Donald Trump's coalition politically, identity-wise, geographically, all of it. And so because of that, there's going to be a lot more argument, a lot of different positions. And whether you're on the left, whether you're on the

center left, wherever you are, you're just going to have to realize that, like, most people in the party aren't necessarily going to agree with all your positions. And that doesn't mean to, like, sand down all your positions so that you can be, like, the lowest common denominator, politician and like have everyone agree with you. But it does mean that like, you know, you have to realize that you're not going to please everyone all the time and you're going to take some positions that piss people off. I mean, you're 100% right. We have like we have to recognize that we need to we need to build a majority and we have to be we have to appeal to people who disagree with lots of things. My just like operating principle going into this primary is

I want to think bigger than just who can win in 2028 because I think if all we do is win in 2028 and then lose after that we are fucked. And so you really have to. think big about who is the candidate who has the potential to change the electoral coalition in the way that Obama did in 2008. Positive America is brought to by dose. While cholesterol is a major focus of modern health screenings, many are moving away from traditional treatments in favor of more natural solutions. Dose for cholesterol meets this demand by offering a gentle, plant, and mineral-based approach

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Over the next year, we have to focus on winning our midterm elections. We can't get sucked into the horse race for an election that is two full years from now, is what we normally say, but not tonight. And so in this hat, we have the names of many of 2028's rumored hopefuls and hopeless. We will each choose a candidate, and we will each make a candidate. our case for that candidate and then we will duke it out. This is real. We are choosing at random and we

will fight for our candidate. At the end, you will vote on who you believe should be the nominee from this field. Okay? In a segment we're calling playing the field. And also, for everyone listening at home, for everyone who

clips this, we are playing a game. We are each playing a role for our candidate. These are called straw man arguments. It does not reflect what each of us actually believe about the candidates. We're just making arguments. I swear to fucking God. And so I will start.

And my candidate is J.B. Pritzker. My candidate is Pete Buttigieg. My candidate is Rahm Emanuel. Cheer for me. My candidate is AOC. Wow. Wow. Okay. All right. We're going to try to

John, take it away for 30 seconds. Okay. I think the case for J.B. Pritzker is that he is an incredibly successful governor of one of the largest states in the country. He has been one of the loudest, fiercest voices against Donald Trump, so he knows how to fight, but he also knows how to govern. He has raised the minimum wage in Illinois. He has also reduced the budget deficit in Illinois. He's passed criminal justice reform. He's protected abortion rights. And so on issue after issue, he has shown that you can actually govern and progressively if you have the opportunity. He has executive experience. He also has, he is very, very rich, which means that he can fund this campaign and he's not going to be beholden to corporate special interests, which is pretty good.

So he's not, and we've had a, we just, you know, class traders are some of the most committed, committed converts. And so I think J.B. Pritzker, the reason that he's been. getting so much attention is because he's out there. He is not afraid to fight Donald Trump. He's not afraid to punch Republicans in the face. And he also has shown in his state that he can protect the people of Illinois from authoritarian like Donald Trump and that he can also govern in a progressive way that actually has improved people's lives in Illinois. Pete Buttigieg. Two things I think we all would I think agree about people to judge. one, no one has done a better job taking the argument to conservative spaces than Pete Buttigieg.

We just went through an election where some of the most important conversations were not five minutes or seven minutes, but they were hour long, hour and a half long conversations. People who have not just a sound bite, but have the ability to actually make a deep and well thought out argument that can appeal to people beyond our base. We know that Pete can do that. That brings me my second reason. Why do we know that Pete Bouda Judge? Because I think we all instinctively view Pete Boutigieg as the smartest, one of the smartest people in Democratic politics. If there's anybody. Now, do I think Pete Bouda judge right now has all the answers for how Democrats win in places we haven't won since Ben Nelson left his seat in Nebraska? No, I don't think Pete Bouda judge has all the answers. But do I think Pete Buttigieg has has the same concern that Dan has and is thinking about it when he's lying awake at night next to a sweet and sleeping chaston i do i do think i think pete is completely aware of this challenge

and is thinking about it and i think knowing that we have a president that is has the capacity to think about these long-term challenges and how to address them and has how to connect it to the policy and the politics of the moment would be quite a reassuring thing for us to have rama manual is the most qualified candidate in the field by far he was white house chief of staff He was a member of Congress. He was the mayor of a city of 2.75 million people. He was the U.S. ambassador to Japan. The man is ready to do the job on day one.

He has seen the nuclear codes. Have you guys seen the nuclear codes? No. None of these clowns have seen the nuclear codes. Also, he's a winner. In 2006, Rahm Emanuel led the D-Triple-C. Democrats won 30 seats. Bill Clinton.

won the presidency two times. Rahm Emanuel was the intellectual firepower behind those campaigns. On top of that, he's a fighter. He's tough. People always say, oh, the Democrats are too nice. Not my ROM. Not my ROM. That's why we need him on that ticket.

How do you guys feel about AOC? Now, here's what some Washington elites are going to tell you. They're going to say she can't win. Do you know who else? whatever is right. Do you know who else I said that about? Barack Obama. They said he couldn't win. You got anything else? Here, I'm going to give you. You know what? Let me make my case. Okay. I just asked. Who'd you have again? I don't even remember. Here's the thing. I think the way in which the Democratic Party can regain the majority in this country, how we can return to our roots is we need a politics that is, comes

from the outside that is reform and that is based on working class people and ideas. And we need a candidate who can actually communicate in this environment, who can go toe to toe with a right-wing media machine. And there is no better communicator and no matter messenger in the Democratic Party than AOC. Does she have hurdles? Yes. She absolutely does.

But I believe she has the talent, the background. She is someone who is a true outsider in American politics. Her time is a bartender's away in which you can relate to working class people. She can appeal to young people and Latinos, the two groups who abandon the Democrats in 2024, which is the difference between the big Obama era coalition we had back 2008, 2012, and the ones in which we barely won in 2020, we lost in 2024. And it is a big bet, right? Because she is an untested candidate compared to some of these other people, like Rahm Emanuel.

You're goddamn right. But it is a bet I'd be willing to make because I think she is the highest ceiling of any candidate in this field. The one candidate we've even talked about is the possibility to truly alter American politics in a way that can defeat Mega. Now, it's the question round. We'll start with J.B. Pritzker. Now, John, J.B. Pritzker is a billionaire. His wealth comes from the Hyatt Hotel chain. Correct.

Chain. He has been wealthy his entire life from the day that he was born. How will he relate to the struggles of working people? I want to know which one of your candidates passed a $15 minimum wage that affected one of the biggest states in the country and millions of people. Rob Immanuel did. Yeah. So Ram didn't. AOC definitely hasn't

and Pete, I don't know if he did it in South Bend So that's a great accomplishment I'm really glad that J.B. And it's weird because he's so rich but he still did that. How is he going to campaign when he's so busy playing poker all the time? All he does is play poker. I have a question.

That's interesting because I think John Lovett wants to hang out with J.B. Pritzker more than any other candidate. Is that what you said? Yeah. That is right. Does he mean he was hanging out with him in the house? It's something.

It's something called the beer test, right? Who would you want to have a beer with? And I believe you have chosen J.B. Pritzker on that. And as the median American voter, gay podcast host from Los Angeles, California. No, but seriously, I agree that J.B. Pritzker has great accomplishments. But sincerely, address the question of how will J.B. Pritzker, someone who has never had to worry about money for a day in his life who's been wealthy since the day he was born? How does he relate to people and their regular everyday struggles? No, it's a great question.

How does a billionaire? relate to a country of working class Americans and get elected by those Americans. I don't know how that happens. Well, well, we do. I don't think Trump is good. Right, because I think he's bad. But is that because he got elected or is that because he didn't pursue policies to improve the economic lives of most people, which J.B. Pritzker has in Illinois.

Can I ask you another question? Sure. I understand your talking points here, but J.B. Prisker is the governor of one of the most Democratic states in the country. Yeah. what is the evidence that he could actually go into a swing state and win? Like the Bronx, right? Well, I'll make,

I'll make, I'm hearing a lot of attacks. Answer, like the Bronx or Chicago or South Bend. Answer the question. When it's your time, you can ask me that question. Because I have a fucking answer.

I guess the transportation department, that was a tough one. I guess the answer for how J.B. Pritzker is going to appeal to the working class is by attacking every other person on the debate stage. I think we need a fighter. Don't we want a fighter? Don't we want someone who's going to hit back? All right, J.B.

There was a two-term president from the same state that J.B. Pritzker is governor of. I think his name is Barack Obama. Many people say, yeah, the white Obama. Does anyone else have a question? I don't know. Like, I'm still waiting for a good, no? I got a question for Pete. Yeah.

So, Pete, you are part of Pete. I am arguing for Pete. You are Pete. We are still ourselves. Tonight you're Pete. In this, we are ourselves, arguing for someone. Love it on the street. It's Pete in the Sheets.

So you were part of the cover-up of Joe Biden's mental decline. Won't that be a problem on the campaign trail? So that's a pretty salacious allegation for someone that was pretty focused on making sure the planes landed and took off, which they almost all did. I had a lot on my plate. He had a lot on his plate. Fuck. He was working on making sure that we had, you know, rail and trains going where they're supposed to go.

And by the way, look, here's the thing. Pete Buttigieg wasn't really like... Wasn't there a big train crash in Ohio? Which he could not stop. Right. Yeah. Look, obviously... So we get most of the planes in the air and most of the trains on the rails.

Obviously, in hindsight, Joe Biden was very old. Yeah What did Pete say after the debate? Did Pete say anything about him after the debate? He said, Boy, We have got to make sure these planes are good. I am focused on the planes.

The planes are also old. Again, not Pete's fault, but he's going to make sure they land safely. It's weird, but it's weird because... Getting our aging, decrepit infrastructure to work as best as it could from the White House to the fucking Amtrak.

Yeah, it's weird though. Pete, I was like, why was he, he was so focused on the trains, but I thought you said he was one of the best communicators in the party. It can go into all the other spaces and talk about politics, but it was just didn't do that with Biden, right? So, just did the plane? And just remind me, when did J.B. Pritzker turn against Joe Biden? Was it before the debate or long after? Definitely before Pete. Well, Pete's in the administration. And again, planes, trains, automobiles. Okay. A couple of questions. So one of the things that was the downfall of Harris was she was in the 2020 primary.

And she stood on state, she felt a lot of questions. She stood on stage and raised her hands for a lot of very, so a lot of issues that are quite unpopular. Pete raised his hand at every single one when Kamala Harris did. What, how worried are you, how worried is Pete about having adopted all these positions in 2020? They were so effectively weaponized against Kamala Harris. So I think it's a really important question. And look, I think the two biggest liabilities Pete Buttigieg will have is A, he is connected to the Biden administration.

And B, he was part of the 2020 primary, which every hand is going up. I do think sometimes that is taken as a, the fact that that was such a liability for Kamala Harris that she could not address, it is therefore a liability others could not address. Kamala had a bigger problem, which was she was unable, to be honest, to articulate a deeper worldview. And she struggled with that in her 107 days. I think she would have continued to struggle with that. Yes, Pete will have to address that.

But I think whatever the tag Pete will have for his being tied to administration, which is legitimate and will be a huge problem for him. I think we all would say that Pete Buttigieg has a kind of a larger worldview that he is going to put forward. He will have to address him. I don't know that it was Bidenism. I think it is a center left kind of technocratic but forward looking, probably abundance style agenda and like whatever that's worth that I think that's be what he would put forward. But yes, he will have to answer for these things. That will be hard for him to do. It will not be as hard for him to do. Kamala made it look harder. than I think it would be like Pete Buttigieg.

One area where, in fairness, Pete is very different from Joe Biden, is that Joe Biden was very popular with black voters. And experienced. And I think you would agree that there's no winning the Democratic primary at all without black voters. Or the White House. Or the White House. And so I'm wondering after his first run where he didn't get almost any black votes

and in the polls now down at on zero and one percent. So what's the, what do you think about that? Nowhere to go but up, John. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. You ever have a jar of pickles and you can open it,

you can open it, you can't open it, but you're loosening it, you know? And one day, boom, black votes. Arguments like that are why Donald Trump's run and train our democracy. You know who didn't run in 2020? Rahm Emanuel.

Blank slate, fresh face. Okay, Ram, I have some questions for you. Sure. Talk to me about how you're going to talk to the, how was Rahm Emanuel going to talk to the country about? Aggressively. Profanely. About Ram's integral role in doing the following things.

Passing NAFTA, passing the Clinton crime bill. Mm-hmm. Adding China to the WTO. Okay, nerd. I would just add to that list is being tied to police abuses during this time as mayor that have led many people to

view him as a sort of a fundamentally unacceptable choice for the Democratic Party. It's Rahm Emanuel, not Machiavelli. First of all, people don't like crime, thus that bill. Okay. Second, NAFTA is half of mostly Canada

and we should be nicer to them, so stop being a dick. But also, chief of staff. member of Congress, Ambassador Japan. He's ready for the job. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. I'm being dead serious, sir, because I was there to see it. Rom, he was a very effective chief of staff for Barack Obama. Very effective. Obama's probably most famous

accomplishment is the passage of the Affordable Care Act. Rom famously, and I was in the meeting where he did it, argued that we should abandon it and take a smaller bill. So like, how is he, he can't even, what is his argument

when he can't even take credit for Obama's top accomplishment? Because what he was, wanted to do was march down to Wall Street, grab a banker, put him on a spit, and roast him like a hog, on C-SPAN, and Obama wouldn't let him

do it. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Oh, I'm sorry, the facts offend you. I assume you have documentation of this. So, Rahm Emanuel, the Tribune of the Working Class in the White House, was stymied by the Neo-Lib Shill Barack Obama.

That's your claim? Who believes in aliens now? That's a possible argument we'll make. Yeah. Okay. I want to say about Pete Buttigieg and black voters. No, keep going. What do you guys got?

So, Dan. This is being recorded, do you know? Yeah, no, I know. I know. I know what your single advantages. Yeah. Never seen someone so cocky pushing on an open door. So of all these candidates, I think that the one with the highest name identification is probably yours, correct?

I would say it's probably Kamala Harris. Of the ones that are on the stage right now? Yes, that's true. I don't, close call with Pete. I think Pete might have higher ID, but it's close. Okay. And who has the worst net approval rating in the country? Romicide.

Who has the highest? Let me ask you this question. Who is the highest approval rating with young voters? Oh, is just young voters voting now in the American election? Well, it would be nice that they voted for us. Oh, is, is, are Wisconsin and Pennsylvania and Michigan just young voters? That's amazing. All right.

Slow down there, okay, billionaire boys. wait, but here's the thing. Sorry, socialist. Go ahead. We love socialist in America. AOC has a high hurdle to prove electability. And I think that one of the tests of elective, and she's going to have to carry that argument in the primaries, in the debates,

and I have great confidence that she has the communication skills to do that. You know, everyone loves her. Well, you're making the argument. What would you make the argument for on electability? How would she has never, go ahead. How would she win an Obama Trump voter in Wisconsin? No one on this stage right now has won a Republican state or district. No, I'm just asking how AOC would.

But I would make the point that there was a large swathing was, you know, 17, 20% of people who voted for Donald Trump and AOC in her last election. Let me ask you. And there's a higher percentage of people, I would say, in her district who voted for Obama in Trump than for J.B. Prisker in Trump. Listen, when's the last time a progressive has ever won a purple district? Can you name a progressive that? a leftist who's ever won a purple district anywhere? Bernie Sanders? Bernie Sanders.

Which one is that? What do you mean by that? In a general election. When is the last time a lefty, DSA, progressive politician has won a purple state, statewide or a district, even a house district. How's that? that AOC's relationship with DSA is something

she's going to have to navigate this. There's no question about that. And the way you do that is you prove it. The same way, and everyone, In 2008, everyone say, when was the, when could a black politician win a majority white state? And Barack Obama won Iowa, and he proved to people that he could do it. The only way that AOC can win the nomination is she has to go whatever the first state is, which is going to most likely be like a Michigan or a Georgia or New Hampshire, whatever it is.

He's going to have to go in and win it. If Rahm Emanuel went to the Munich Security Conference and got asked about Taiwan, he would hit that over the chucker. Is that a thing in cricket now? No. Something else? He would knock it out of the park. There's no question.

What I'm saying is that people should believe people should go with their hearts. But no, John's your point though. I agree, right, that like right now, right, we would say it's an uphill climb for someone on the left as AOC to win a national race. but you would say that she would be a good president, right? Are you now just arguing for AOC so the fucking audience can...

No, no, no, but no, but no, but no, but I'm saying that this is the problem, right? That, like, if what we're talking about is electability, electability is not a, is, electability can't simply be a snapshot of how people view politicians before the primary... Electability is sitting right here. No, for sure it is. But, like, you would have to then be saying not only is she seen as someone who is divisive or to the left in a way that's not a people. to enough people, but that she does not have the capacity to change that. And like, don't we think, like, if we, if we, if things are as dire as Dan is saying in our politics, wouldn't it be worth it to take a chance on the possibility that we can reshape our politics around someone that we all

would view as somebody who has, I guess, I guess, I guess, here's the thing, here's the thing I'll say. It is a, there's no question it's a big risk, but there's no one on the stage who's not a big risk, right? Kamlo-Lap Boudishu is too big at risk. For sure. He's Roman-Omanman manual, whatever. I agree that Rahm Emanuel would be a pretty big fucking risk. J.B. Pritzker is an untested opposition who's never won Republican voters. What I believe is that the way the Democrats have to move is we need a politics based on working class people, working class ideas. And the person in the Democratic Party on this list in this hat best able to do that is AOC. Based on. Based on the fact that based on what? Based on the fact that she has done it.

Where? Where? Barack Obama won Illinois and then he won the country. She's going to have to prove it. Do you think Barack Obama's positions when he ran were to the left or to the right of AOCs right now? Well, I think everyone is the politics have changed, but he was the most left candidate in that field and he won. Because of his position on the Iraq war, right? What else?

He was more liberal on the most, on the biggest issue of the time. And he mugged. And he did mug. He was good looking. And she mocks. And I would love to get a beer with J.B. Pritzker. And I think Pete's brilliant. All right.

This is the final debate stage. Based on the arguments. Based on the arguments. You have heard tonight. Are you voting for J.B. Pritzker? No. Are you voting for Sweet Pete Buttigieg? Are you voting for Rama Manuel?

Wow. Pretty good. and that was it, right? And AOC. Too close to call. The Swing District of Sydney. Listen, let's see how she does in Brisbane. Honestly, she did pretty well.

And that's playing the field. That's our show, Sydney. Thank you so much. If you want to listen to Pod Save America, ad free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash friend. to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review that helps boost this episode and everything we do here at

Cricket. Pod Save America is a Cricket Media production. Our producer is Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reed Churlin is our executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

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with the Writers Guild of America East. Access Storage presents Team Canada snowboarder Mark McMorris. It's a huge honor to call myself an Olympic medalist and an even bigger honor to be a three-time Olympic medalist to do those all under the Maple Leaf is incredibly special and I'm eternally grateful. Thank you, Canada, for your continued support. It's a huge honor to represent our country. Keep cheering. Let's go Canada. Access Storage, official storage partner of Team Canada.