Pod Save America - 2026's Biggest Questions

Episode Date: January 11, 2026

Will the Supreme Court destroy what remains of the Voting Rights Act? How much influence will America's 250th anniversary have on the midterm elections? If the Democrats win those elections, who in the administration will they investigate first? Jon Favreau and Alex Wagner share their biggest questions for year two of Trump 2.0 in search of some hope for the year ahead.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

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when you use Code Crooked at OneSkin.com slash Cricket. That's up to 30% off with Code Crooked after you purchase. I'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro. And I'm Alex Wagner. I love saying that when I'm here with you.

It makes even better. This is our first Sunday show of the year. You guys ask for more Pod Save America and you got it. There's going to be a new episode in your feed every Sunday in 2026. Oh, my God. How exciting is that? And this year's been 200 years long already. So there should be 200 extra episodes of PUD Save America.

We're all going to take turns hosting, including our newest host, but longtime pal, Alex Wagner, right here in studio. I mean, how lucky am I? Listen, you got to kick the year off right. When the world is melting, you get to a hot place. You get a Cal-Fuckinforia. And I'm so thrilled to be here. Come more often. The snack selection's gotten a lot better since I was last year, I got to say.

I don't know whether that's related to my contract or what. We tried to ask for some healthier snacks. Oh, well, I don't know that I'd say that that's what happened. There's just more of them. Well, we tried to get, we didn't want to take away the unhealthy snacks. We just wanted a little bit more of a balance. Yeah, I noticed more candy. But anyway, I guess we're all blind to, I mean, I'm blind to the healthy snacks.

They just seemed a bounty. And I was grateful. I'm biased, of course, but I'm a huge fan of your new show, runaway country. The newest edition to the Cricket Network. Oh, it is such a good. How's it been going? Well, it's great because you're on it this week. That's why you might be biased.

That's why it was so good this week. Particularly excellent episode. If I just say so myself. Yeah, I got to say, flu-ridden Ben-Rhodes is the best Ben-Rodes? Yeah. Hot. Hot on the mic this week. Everyone was hot.

I mean, we came back to a motherfucker of a year, really. I mean, what a series of events to bear witness to. And runaway country this week focused on Venezuela. We talked to some Venezuelans about their opinions of all of this, which is, interesting and not exactly what you think. And then we got hot, spicy hot takes from John Fabro and Ben Rhodes. It's always great being a guest on a show like that because I'm more measured as a host. You let it rip on them. As I'm moderating. Yeah, you let it rip on that. I didn't have any, you know. You saw that train with no breaks. Did not give. You throttled it up. No fucks. As you mentioned,

you know, the first week of 2026 felt like several lifetimes, none of which I would enjoy. living again. But somehow we have a huge year ahead of us. Yeah. It's America's 250th birthday. That's what I've been thinking. That's what I thought. New Year's Day, man.

I thought, America, you look great for 250. 250, the country is being run by an aging autocrat who is engaged in mind-boggling corruption and hemispheric domination. He's got an army of masked agents on the streets. one just killed an unarmed American citizen. But in November, this November, he will face for one of the very last times in his life, an electorate. Make it so. An electorate that has never been this angry with him over how he's handling the economy.

And their votes will decide just how much of a lame duck Trump is and what the race will look like to finally replace him. So, chill year ahead. Chill. What could go wrong? And as everyone knows here at Pod Save America, we're still not in the prediction business. Though it seems that's like literally become quite a business now, the prediction business. I mean, that's people want any kind of map to be uncertain times. Now we're just betting. Now we're making bets. Yeah, we're polymarking. But I thought what could be useful is we're not going to do predictions, but we could talk about the biggest political questions on our minds for the year ahead.

what we think will be the most consequential, what we'll be paying closest attention to, what we think will tell us the most about where we're headed, that kind of thing. So we're each going to do six questions for 2026. Maybe six and a half. Unless we have more. Right. And aren't too tied for the six to 26 bit. Oh, good.

Then it's just chaos. That's right. We can do what we want. We'll call it six for 26. We'll call it eight for 26. Dude, it's the era of Trump. I really can do whatever we can do whatever we want. Exactly.

But I thought it would be fun to do some questions. So why don't we, you can start us off. Oh my God. What's the first question you have for 2026? Well, I do think the Dems are going to take back the House, right? So my first question involves the interregnum period in and around lame duck, sort of we're already at the end of the year. We're going to rewind to other parts of there.

But I think in terms of like sort of pressing issues when the Democrats take back the house, I'm interested to know which White House official becomes the subject of the first house investigation. And I specifically am interested in whether it's Pete Hegseth for the boat murders, Cash Patel for the FBI purges and what he's done to the department. Or maybe Pam Bondi for Epstein. I mean, there's a lot to choose from. And I do think that there's going to be an enormous amount of interest in terms of how to House Democrats organize themselves. And I'd like to know how they sort of process the air and think about which villain to sort of investigate and haul before Congress first.

That's such a good question. And it raises a number of other questions in my mind, which is do. Do the officials comply? Yep. Do they decide that it's Congress and... Fuck Congress? Yep. You can send your subpoenas and we can ignore them and then what are you going to do?

Get the Justice Department. And what do Democrats do if that happens? And what do Democrats do? Because isn't there some kind of a congressional sergeant of someone can do something there? Yes. I think, well, they can be held in contempt of Congress, right? And we know there's Steve Bannon. I mean, there's...

At some point, though, it probably does have to go to the Justice Department. Yes. Which is Donald Trump's Justice Department. Yes, it's true, which is ironic because we might be investigating Department of Justice officials and potentially the head of the Justice Department. I did look into like the strength of a preemptive presidential pardon and as it intersects with a congressional investigation, it doesn't matter. There are separate branches of the government. You know, I think the question of accountability is going to be a big one if we lose any of Trump's murderers row of idiots. That's such a weird combination of metaphors.

Like if Pete Higgs has leaves or is fired, if Cash Patel leaves or is fired, if Pambani leaves or is fired, do they get pardons on their way out the door? I would assume so. Like if there are departures this year, I think it'll be interesting to see what Trump's strategy is for this administration has absolutely committed crimes. And this could be a good test year to see what the end of the Trump administration might look like in terms of that. So the other option, aside from them just saying, we're going to defy the subpoenas, is what they're. they have been doing this year when they were before Congress, which is they just go and they treat it as a way to perform for Donald Trump and the Fox audience and right-wing audience beyond that and just say whatever they want to say. The value to me in the subpoena power is less about who you get and then

the documents you get. The documents. And that I wonder about because there's a lot of documents that you can get from the administration. That is the substance. That is the meat as it were, John. And that stuff really matters. And that's not something they can prevent from coming out. And then there's the question that they're going to have to wrestle with. You're going to start hearing. Because Democrats will run on affordability. And let's say we win. Right. Then it's going to be like, well, did you win the House? And now all you're going to do is just investigations. And then there's the whole impeachment question. Well, right. That is, that was like a secondary concern because that's obviously.

front of mind with regards to Trump. He's already talked about it in front of the House Republicans who gathered at the Trump Kennedy Center earlier this year. He's terrified of being impeached for a third time. And it's going to be, I mean, I do think that there is, it is without question, a better thing for the health of our democracy to have an opposition party in charge of one branch of government and specifically the Democrats. And if they control at least the lower chamber, there's going to be, I think it'll be a shot in the arm for Democratic organization. And I think the movement right now has proven really robust at the grassroots level, right? The citizen engagement in our politics is undeniable.

But you do need a tip of the spear that has investigatory power, subpoena power, and just is in government. So it will be helpful to have Democrats up there in control of the lower chamber. But there are going to be a lot of questions about how the part, how aggressively the party looks backward to this year and to the year before and in terms of what Trump has done and manages that question. of accountability and whether that's something they want to tackle, which increasingly seems like an academic exercise, even though I don't think it is. I think it is essential to the work of democracy to hold people accountable who occupy positions of power, if not for this generation, then for the next. Especially after this last year that we've had, and especially what we learned from the

administration between the two Trump administrations, you know, as. as Merrick Garland, then the Justice Department. Well, right. I mean, we learned nothing. Right. All right. Here's my first question. Yeah, yeah, man.

How do most midterm voters feel about the economy this summer? Because to me, there's a lot of political science research around this that impressions harden about two to three months before the election, maybe a little before that. There's always exceptions, of course. But that's usually when it happens. And I do think how voters feel about the election. economy is highly, highly correlated with how they feel about Donald Trump and will be highly correlated to how they vote, whether they vote for Republicans or Democrats in the midterm, and particularly

the voters who have not made up their minds. Who are those voters? My God. But anyway, yes. And they could make up their, not just should I vote for a Republican or should I vote for Democrat, but should I vote at all? Should I even come up to vote? Yeah.

And those people will make up their mind. most likely on economic issues. Well, we're going to be awash in Venezuelan oil this summer, so travel's going to be super cheap. And I, you know, bully for Trump. I think, you know, it'll be interesting. I kind of wonder whether that old thinking holds true for a year like this just because we've been, the American public has been so both naturally interested in affordability because they're broke. and there's a sort of the economic pain has been so ongoing, right?

Like January is a month of premium insurance premium hikes. And that's an affordability issue, as it as much as it is, is a question about health insurance and ethics. And I feel like there's going to be a collective burden in terms of the economy that is with the American public in a way that maybe in other more economically healthy years, there necessarily hasn't been. So you know what I mean? Like, I think the summer is going to matter, as it always does.

We have the, what is it, attention span of a, a, a nat. Nat. But I do think it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's the, the, the, the question of economic health and the, the, the, the, the, the sense that Americans can not afford to live the lives they led even two years ago, I think is pronounced and is emotionally resonant through the other months of the year in a way that it isn't necessarily in, in other years. So I'm not trying to refute your question. No, no. But I wonder how meaningful that traditional period of decision making is given how bad things are going to be for the rest of the year. Wow, that was a really fucking long way of saying. No, no.

I've been thinking about this because here's the challenge is that like, I don't know, for 80, 90% of the midterm electorate, elections probably already baked. Yeah, totally. Right? It's already decided. So the people were talking about, and for Democrats to win the House, it's not going to take many seats, obviously. but to get, you know, the number of seats that would feel like blue wave territory, which is obviously going to be smaller than it would be even in 18 just because there are fewer competitive seats because of gerrymandering.

But that means that Democrats are going to have to win districts that Trump won, where a Republican is sitting in the House district right now and Democrats need to win Donald Trump won in 2024 and beat Kamala Harris by five, six points, right? Not just like one or two. Yeah. So then you have to find. people who voted for Donald Trump in 2024 who were like, fuck this.

This is not what I voted for. And again, we're like, what did you think you were voting for? But maybe they were like, I thought he was crazy. Yeah, but I thought I was going to manage the economy. So you need those people. And the question is, how many of those people do you get? And I think another answer to that question depends on a couple things. The Supreme Court is going to decide.

That's my two. It's no question number two. I know. And also, we're recording this, everyone. I know. It's just going to... It could be tomorrow. We're recording this Thursday afternoon, everyone. So if you hear something, no, that's fine. We can just... People, people know what we're doing here. You know that we're not living for podcasting on the weekends. You might be listening to this and then maybe, after this conversation, maybe there's some kind of an extra...

Extra interview. Bonus. I'm going to let you behind the curtain. If we get a tariff decision tomorrow, we might do something extra on this. Well, I mean, that was my second question, which folds directly into your... yours, which is what happens with the Supreme Court in Trump's tariffs. Because by every indication, first of all, Trump's already giving the money away, right? He's already saying, like, we're going to cut checks to the American public from all this. How much did he say we have? Six hundred billion dollars, he said. Yeah, 600 bill, we have taken in and will soon be receiving more than 600 billion dollars in tariffs. That's what he said this week. Just a word to the wise, I think, I believe the

official number is 1,000 companies have already preemptively sued the federal government to get their money back once the Supreme Court rules that the tariffs are not constitutional. That includes companies like Costco, Reebok, Dole, Xerox, Reveloon, and Goodyear. You may have heard of them. They're not upstarts. Unfortunately, they're not in our ad role this season. These are massive companies that have had to fork over lots of money if they haven't passed it on to the consumer and are like, give us our fucking money back. This was illegal. So, you know, it's one thing for Trump to be promising the money. First of all, it's one thing for Trump to think the tariffs are going to stay in place. It's another thing for him to be promising the money. And it's a third for him to

actually give it away. The question is, like, if he does give it away, if he does cut checks or if he does earmark it, like, what happens if it needs to be returned? Does the Supreme Court let the tariffs that were already in place stand? I mean, there's so many questions. And also, what we hear from inside the White House is like, they're going to figure an end run around these tariffs no matter fucking what. Yes. Which is like, how do you do that? And so let's go to this decision, whatever it may be, big deal, for sure. But some of the tariffs aren't subject to that decision, number one. Number two, he was just saying to the New York Times in that interview that he wants to try licensing fees.

It's like Trump Stakes. Yeah, if that doesn't work. And, of course, some of the tariffs have already been lifted. He's already backed off some of the tariffs. So it's muddled there. I do think, and you alluded to this, he also told the New York Times that he does want to send $2,000 tariff checks. And he thinks he can do it without Congress.

And for timing, he said towards the end of the year. Oh, I wonder when. I know. I know. So I am wondering if they're going to like in October just decide we're going to send up fucking checks. Go ahead sue us and see if you be the people that say we're going to take back $2,000 checks from the public.

So I do. I have a little concerned about that. I'm just trying to think of what could change about the economy. Because I think right now, if the election was held right now, we would see some of results we saw in 2025. Absolutely. And I keep wondering, like, how could the, what levers does the administration have to change the economy and what exigent circumstances are out there that could change the economy?

Jerome Powell. At least change how people, yes. So he's going to appoint a new Fed share. So you could get a new Fed share that, I don't know, feels pressured to lower rates, obviously if it's tough fed share. I think you don't need to say, I don't know. I think expressly will be forced. Like, literally, they'll have to wear a T-shirt to the interview that says, I will lower interest

rates. And then the job. And then the question is, there's another Supreme Court decision on whether the president can just fire Fed chairs for no reason or Fed just Federal Reserve members for no reason. And if Trump just gets the Fed chair, which he already is going to have, then the rest of the Fed can say, well, I don't care. Trump's a crazy new Fed share. I'm just, I'm going to vote how I want to vote. But if he's now able to fire people and he puts a whole new Fed in, and then we're in our uncharted territory. I don't know if that's actually going to improve the economy or destroy the economy, but that's,

That's a big one out there. Well, I mean, what it does to independent agencies and the balance of power is fucking shocking. We actually, this was a subject of runaway country before we went left for break. We talked to the plaintiff. She is one of the lead plaintiffs in the cases going to the Supreme Court that will determine whether or not Trump can just fire, you know, the independent heads of these agencies. And it has repercussions, of course, for the Fed and for the American economy. But it's for a fucking any agency that serves in an oversight capacity. to make sure that the American public is not getting fucked over by the federal government and political appointees.

And if the Supreme Court says, yeah, go for it. I mean, that basically guts any real oversight of this particular administration and any fucking administration. It's really, really, really bad. I mean, at the risk of becoming a watered down very, very poor imitation of strict scrutiny, like what is happening at the Supreme Court in the course of the next six months? is going to be hugely determinative, not just for this year, but for the immediate future of our democracy. Yeah. I think that the ideal political scenario for the Trump White House, and this is not all necessarily things that they want, they just don't know what's good for them. But the ideal political scenario economically for the Trump White House is the Supreme Court strikes down the tariffs.

Yeah. The ACA subsidies deal goes through. Yep. They get some kind of compromise. the tax cuts, even though they are somewhat meager for lower and middle of income people, are felt in the spring. And then maybe the job market, it's sort of, hums up, even if it doesn't get worse, right? Like maybe it just sort of putses along.

Sure. And then the AI boom, the AI bubble doesn't pop. It doesn't crash. I mean, that's like that, it doesn't seem that far fetch. That's right. That's what I say. And then like, if people feel even a little. little bit better than they do now, then I would have some concern heading into the fall.

Yeah, but don't, don't forget Trump's ability to royally fuck. I mean, he's on a streak right now, and we say this in the week of Venezuela and the ice shooting of an unarmed American citizen in her Honda, where he can, he doesn't give a shit actually. I mean, he cares about not getting impeached, right? That's his main interest in midterms. But he's in the sort of late stage autocrat, he's running the late stage autocrat ego playbook, where it's just about like big guns, being cruel, owning the libs, politics be damned. So even if, I mean, I don't know, you'd think that we've been here before and people voted him back into office, even if the economy is like, eh, okay, the fact that there could be National Guard troops, there are fact that in a city near you, the fact that American citizens

are getting assassinated by ICE agents in masks, the fact that there are immigration dragnets that are fucking up just communities and labor forces. You know, all of this contribute, and the fact that we may be invading Greenland, all of this contributes to a feel of chaos, lawlessness, and insanity. That, I don't know, it'll be interesting to see how American, I mean, that stuff is, I think, tangible in a way that talking about, you know, fascism as a sort of academic thesis,

as it was perhaps in the 2024 election. I think that stuff because it's unfolding on videos, on streets and in cities all over the country. country resonates in a way and is therefore maybe more meaningful than, you know, the discussion about Trump's autocratic tendencies was in the Biden years. Pod Save America is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. If you're hiring for your company, this is a busy time of year for you because you've got new 2026 goals, which means finding the right people to accomplish them.

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Sundays for Dogs.com slash Crooked 30 or use code Crooked 30 at checkout. Well, that's a good segue to my next question, which is how far will Stephen Miller Oh, good. Take his domestic war against people who don't look like him or believe what he believes. Do you think I will be a resident of the United States of America by the end of year? I mean, I certainly don't look the way he thinks Americans should look. Did you catch the Atlantic profile on Stephen Miller? I taught it on, I caught the first two paragraphs of it, John.

Brutal. Steve Bannon calls him this prime minister, which I think is the prime minister of the government, which I think is apt. Yeah. there was an anecdote from 2024 debate prep. And I've heard the Trump side of this before. I hadn't heard the Miller side of this one before. I don't know if it's new or not. But Miller was going back and forth with someone who was a little more moderate on immigration with him during debate prep.

And Trump was frustrated and interrupted the two men and said, Stephen, if you had it your way, everyone would look exactly like you. Someone familiar with the exchange told the Atlantic. And then Miller responded, that's correct before turning back. to continue sparring. So I do wonder, we are, you know, again, we have seen this week sort of the chaos of Miller's vision becoming realized of a mass deportation force rounding people up. And I wonder what the country looks like if they've come very close to defying the courts. In fact, you could say they have defied the courts here and there, but outright defiance of a

Supreme Court, you know, you've made your decision, John Roberts. now enforce it kind of thing. We haven't seen that yet. Will we? Yeah. Birthright citizenship, speaking of Supreme Court decisions, is out there. Trump said to the New York Times this week that they, he confirmed that they're taking steps to strip Americans of citizenship. Denaturalization. He said Somali of Somali descent. But he said others if they deserve it. Yeah. Well, if you get it on his wrong side, fuck you. You have to get out of here. Now, denaturalization is a, it's a it's a difficult standard to meet legally. You have to basically have lied or committed fraud on your citizenship application process.

Right. It's not just, so some of the, like, Tom Emmer is like, oh. Talk to Tish James about how much fraud you actually need to commit to be found in the fraud. Right. But it's like, like, I heard Tom Emmer over the couple weeks ago be like, oh, all these, all these Somali Americans who committed who were caught in the fraud ring, like, they should be denaturalized. Like, that's not what the law says, that, like, if you are. are a naturalized citizen and you commit a crime. Yeah.

Then you can be denaturalized. That's not what it. But if you lied somehow. But like, you know, they asked for, I believe Stephen Miller and DHS have asked for like 100 to two. Like they asked for a certain minimum number of denatural cases every month. That is, that should send a chill down everybody's spine. And actually my question five was how many migrants have been, well, killed. And how many American citizens deported by the end of the year?

Because that's the collateral damage of all of this. You everybody, like the problem with the Trump administration, it's like they, the, it is the frog boiling slowly. Remember when he was just going to get the criminals out? And now it's everybody's accepted that if you came here without papers, you're a criminal and therefore subject to deportation. Like that was not the litmus test. Even like I'm old enough to remember last year, I should say like in 2024, when that wasn't going to be the criteria by which these dragnets were going to operate. You were going to have to be a violent criminal, not supposed to be here. And then they were going to take you out. Not that I agreed with. that. But all of a sudden, the standard is just if you came here and you didn't have your papers, then we're going to tear you from your family, even if you are in court to try and follow the process. We are going to find you. We may take family members who are here legally and also deport them. I mean, and so when the Trump administration or when the law says you have to have committed some crime or fraud, like everything is fungible. Everything is movable. The goalposts are not stationary on any of this. And so while denaturalization may be legally complicated,

it's a fool's errand to believe in the adverb legally with this administration, right? They change the game all the time. And if they decide they want to take naturalized citizens and rip their fucking passports and their papers away from them, then they will. And like the courts be damned. I will also say this court has been a gross enabler of the worst, most racist impulses of this court, right? The Kavanaugh stops. You can now just stop someone on the street because they're brown.

Like that's the world in which we live. And it is very difficult for me to imagine at the end of 2026. I almost forgot what year it is, that this is not a whiter country that it is as we sit here today in early January. A wider country and I worry just more state-sponsored violence and chaos in the streets. Because I do think there is a – and, you know, this is the issue that I fear the most is what keeps me up at night. but there is a temptation. I felt the temptation over the last couple months before this week where it's like, okay, the Chicago, the midway blitz wound down,

the ice raids here in Los Angeles sort of, it went like city by city for a while, and then we saw that they lost on the National Guard in court, and so they announced they were taking the National Guard out of a lot of these cities, but they're still like, you know, then they sent them to Minneapolis, and now we're dealing with this in Minneapolis, and now they're going to go to other states. cities. And what they want is a reaction. Yep. They want to provoke. They want to provoke reaction. Yep. You hear J.D. Vance in an interview this week saying like, oh, well, we got to, J.D. Vance and

Stephen Miller think they have done poorly on deportations. They think that they are getting heat. They're not listening to the people who are upset about this on the left or the center. No, they're listening to the far, far right. They're listening to the far right, who's like, you have not deported enough people, you have not rounded up enough people. And there are too many people who, I still have citizenship who shouldn't have citizenship here. And J.D. Vance is like, well, once now we get the system in place and the money's coming from all the, from the funding and the big beautiful bill for ICE. Now we're going to start going door to door, he said on Fox. And I think I worry a lot about this for this year because there's no reason for the administration to stop doing it because they don't give a shit what the court say.

They don't give a shit about public opinion on it. public opinion has turned hard against them on deportations. Yeah. They enjoy the violence and the cruelty. Yes. Right? That's why you see when they kill an American citizen on videotape, the reaction is not even, let's let's let the investigation play out. The reaction is let's smear her memory. Let's degrade her humanity. And let's suggest that her death was warranted. I mean, whoa. Right? Like that's where we're at. I will just say by the numbers according to the DHS in December of last year, in President Trump,

first year back in office, more than 2.5 million illegal aliens, their term, not mine, have left the U.S., including an estimated 1.9 million self-deportations and 622,000 deportations. Hard to trust those numbers. Very hard to trust those numbers. But also, that's not. Especially in the self-deportations. Exactly. Is that people that went to go see family and then just couldn't get back in the country?

It's hard to know what that actually means. also 622,000 deportations is a fuck ton of deportations. How many of them were actually people who had papers to be here? But also, that's not the number that they wanted. Yeah. So, like, that should send it. They are very interested in meeting their targeted numbers, and they will stop at nothing to reach them.

So the fact that 622,000 isn't even close to what they wanted should scare us all. And the other shoe that hasn't really dropped yet is, if you remember after Charlie Kirk's assassination, there was the, like, we're going to go after Antifa and all. all the left-wing groups and really cracked down on opposition. Yeah. And it was a lot of like sound infurer and not much came of it. And now this week we've seen, you know, it's like kicking back up again because after they have decided to kill an unarmed American citizen, you know, J.D. Vance at the

White House briefing today was like, we're going to find the people who fund this. And, you know, I still don't know how much of it is bullshit to scare people or how much of it is like suddenly subpoenas are going out and, you know, people are getting sued and dragged to court and that worries me too. Well, yeah, and I didn't put this in as a question, but they are all doing everything in their power to, you know, consolidate the media landscape and the information landscape to suit their own ends, right? Whether it's going after. Okay, you go, you go. Take it away, boss. I didn't put it on.

I didn't know I was one of my list. Our segues are so natural now, so we don't even have to go like next question. It's like we work at the same office. It was like what kind of impact will the Trump MAGA war on independent objective media have. And that, you know, there's a couple dimensions to that, right? That now, again, to the boiling frog thing, like after a year, they, so TikTok is back. Right. You know, the Chinese gave us TikTok and now there's some consortium, right?

So there's some Trump allies that are in there. Elon's still got X. Yeah. And Grock. Right. And the AI overlords have kissed Donald Trump's ass. You know what happens when you kiss ass, John? You just get ass.

You guys have to listen to who don't know that reference. You have to listen to Runaway Country. It's a deep cut. Yeah, it's a deep cut. So they are, he's got them on the team. He's got the Ellisons who now have CBS and are looking to also take. Warner Brothers and CNN or maybe just CNN, who knows, and right-wing propaganda network, that's bigger than ever.

And I guess my question is, like, it's happening, how much of an impact does it have this year? And when does it start, when do you start, and maybe we'll never know, but when do you start seeing it having an influence on public opinion? Yeah. I mean, I think the CBS stuff is a great test case. for that, right? Because that's the most insidious, right? There you have legacy brand. You have someone installed Barry Weiss who is clearly doing the, you know, handywork of the Trump administration.

And in the most, I suppose we can call it skillful because she's, Barry Weiss is smart. She's very articulate. You know, she ran a very successful independent news organization, not as successful as the money they paid her for it. But, you know, she's not, she ain't Sean Spicer, right? And so in that way, it's much more malignant, I think. And Tony DeCopal is not a malignant actor necessarily, but the language he's using the stories he's covering the favor he's currying with the administration is incredibly detrimental. Marco Rubio, we salute you. I know. I mean, right. I mean, I actually, I'm giving it, yeah. This has surprised me, and like, you can call me naive. It wasn't necessarily as naive, but I'm just like, Barry Weiss, whatever. Like, first of all, is it really going to be that blatant? What's going to happen?

The Tony de Cople stuff in this last week is like, are you fucking kidding me? I know. It's... The Margarine stuff is so... I mean, it's just... I don't think that's effective, first of all, but I also think it's just like so embarrassing. It's so embarrassing. I think the great hope is that...

And I say this is someone who worked at CBS and, you know, took pride in working at CBS for a while, that the evening news has become so utterly irrelevant that they can't actually change. It's more of watching a car slowly crash. Lack of intense concern was coming from. Not that I didn't think they would try, but I was like, who's really watching the news. Well, I don't think it's bad that it gets poisoned on the way down, though. Do you know, like, that I don't think it's bad to have news gathering organizations, you know, and the poisoning of it, the irrelevance of it, it's just all fucking bad for information health in our democracy. And that part is really distressing to me, you know, destroying CBS, even if it doesn't have an immediate and practical impact on the, you know, the sort of citizenry. It's just not a good thing for democracy. And to get away with it is, you know, that's just another way of destroying the fourth estate is to just make it so fucking unwatchable and so gross that it doesn't matter anymore. And that's a model for, you know, linear cable, which is increasingly irrelevant, just like map that on to CNN, right?

And then like, destroy that shit and you're done. Like, it's what happened in Hungary. They chose to close these newsrooms, right, which is more aggressive than what the Trump administration is doing. but by installing talentless hacks that nobody believes in it in medium that's increasingly irrelevant, well, then you get rid of like institutional media in a pretty adept way. Yeah, I mean, there's the question of, you know, the sort of right-wing media conglomerate propaganda network out there versus opinion that is more left-leaning, analysis that's more left-leaning, and we obviously think about that a lot here.

But my big question is how many people are out there paying for news gathering? Totally. How much news gathering is going on and how much of it will be able to continue that is not tainted by fear of Trump or just opinionated to sort of match MAGA preferences? Totally. And we're sitting here in the week that I think the Pittsburgh Post Gazette closing down. Shuddering because two psychopaths who own. it are trying to own the libs that work for the paper basically. And I do wonder, like, just from a news gathering perspective, if we're going to be all

takes and opinion and then AI slop and, you know, creators who, God bless them, but, like, are people getting, you know, like, I just, I worry about actual news gathering. Where does that leave us? And who's going to pay. It's just me interviewing some people on Runaway Country. That's not new to guys. That's just me interviewing people. Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix.

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This offer is exclusive to Pod Save America listeners. That's Helixleep.com slash crooked for 27% off-site wide. Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you Helixleep.com slash crooked. America is brought to you by Zbiotics. Let's face it after a night with drinks, I do not bounce back the next day like I used to. I have to make a choice. I can either have a great night

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The conservatives have hated the Voting Rights Act for long time. and now you have a bunch of white people basically suing and saying it's reverse racism to have districts that prioritize minority voices and voters and give them representation in Congress. That's where we're at. And I just think you do away with that. And well, first of all, the South is gone. And one of the most important sort of reparative mechanisms for our long and checkered instituted. racism disappears. And at this moment when we no longer have affirmative action, we have like an administration that says that any kind of civil rights gains are wokeism that need to

be reversed, whether it happened in World War II or yesterday. It's a dangerous time. It's a dangerous time for people of color. It's a dangerous time for people who believe in a more inclusive society. And I think the Supreme Court decision could have like profoundly, profoundly traumatic after effects on American society. Yes, and I don't think it will go well. And I mean, from oral arguments, at least. And I do think the only optimistic part is that I think it's going to be tough for whatever decision they make to be implemented before these midterms.

But that's cold comfort for, you know, generations to come. I also think, and we've seen that this year, with redistricting, that what's going to happen then is sort of a gerrymandering race to the bottom, where if we lose another 10, 15, whatever seats in the South because of this decision, then the blue states again are going to go back and be like, all right, well, we're going to just wipe out all the Republicans in our district. And then you're going to just have this country that is completely split. Yeah. Bad.

What could go wrong? Yeah. All right. I have, will a challenger emerge? who seriously threatens J.D. Vance's chance at the Republican nomination in 2028. Oh, I love this question. It's so juicy. Isn't it Vice Roy Rubio that's going to be the challenger? Or is he the running mate?

I think he's the running mate. I think he's the running mate. Wait, say more. Okay, who else do you think could be that person? So I think one of the reasons that J.D. Vance is just the biggest asshole you've ever seen. In public. That's saying something. Right. Like just really, is I, I think his running theory is no enemies to your right. Because that's where the challenge would come from.

Right. Got it. And he is not as charismatic as his boss, Donald Trump. He is not as charismatic as many of the figures on the right. He's can't order donuts, John. He's like the least charismatic human being in America. But like he needs to, you know, Tucker Carlson, Candice Owens. Right?

Like all of the, and I'm not if he's saying they're, who knows, maybe, but like, he needs those people to like him. Not just like him, but to love him. Yeah. Or at the very least, not to challenge him or not to find challengers for him. And so you have a JD Vance who is, in some ways, his political fortunes are tethered to Donald Trump as their Marco Rubios. And so if, you know, Trump's popular or middling, then like maybe they're fine. But if Trump gets even worse, it gets even less popular, then J.D. Vanch's ambitions are fucked and he can't break from Donald

Trump. And so he has to be as extreme as possible. And I think he happens to believe most of it, too. But even if he didn't, he would have to be if he wants to be president. And I think that someone on the right could say if the Trump administration, if Donald Trump's sitting at like in the 30s by the end of the year, by the end of next year, there's going to be people on the right who are like, that's J.D. Vance that is saddled with that. And not me. Not me. And he's a fucking pudd who, is can't can't excite a crowd awkward

he is no I mean here say this about Trump many things can be said he is incredibly authentic and J.D. Vance does not have an authentic bone in his body the other thing we're discounting is the sickness of Trump he is going to enjoy

the sort of hunger games of the inheritance much like he does with his children very succession vibes he will love play playing Rubio and fans off of each other. And I would guess if there is a challenger from the right, he will entertain that person at Marlago

just to make J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio beg and scrape that much harder. I mean, they will be sick and twisted. Delicious. Lovett and I did John Heilman's podcast right before. I was going to say, you did a show with him or two. Right before the break. And he was down on Vance as a nominee, but was like, what about, he thinks like,

What do you think about Don Jr.? I think that kind of, it's interesting. I think that's tough too. I think they like making money. I mean, like I really think they like being rich, right? I really think they like being rich. Although he seems a little drunk on power. I would not be surprised.

It will be Sophie's choice for Donald Trump because I don't think he actually likes his children. And I think that's a hard. I think it's a hard. I think the Vance Don Jr. thing is hard to like tease out because I don't think Trump Jr. goes after Vance. and I don't think Trump sort of allows that kind of thing. I really do think if there's a challenger to Vance,

which I think is very possible, it is an outsider. It is a Tucker. T.C.? Megan. No. Now let me tell you. No way. She likes that podcasting studio.

They all like it, but wouldn't she like a, you know. She likes being Charlie of Charlie's Angels. She likes being the voice in the box. I can't see that. Tucker. T.C. from the barn to the barn storm. I can see it. I can see that.

Austin just held up a picture of Marjorie Taylor Green. MTV. Flash in the pan. I feel like she's, again, come back to me at the end of the year when she's a fucking nominee.

I just feel like she can't get, like, she's done the thing, she's come out too early against Trump. I just think that that's just a very hard road to hoe.

And I saw her yesterday on TV, not in real life. And I made that stuff like, I was just talking to her yesterday. She's like, eh, I'm not into it. Mikulov Ultras at the local bar. And she just,

she's already, I feel like a discomfort there that is going to get even more pronounced the more real her bid becomes. But, I should shut the fuck up because I also didn't think Donald Trump was necessarily going to win in 2015. What do you got? I got one that is just a complete fucking downer, but it's real relevant.

Will medication abortion still be legal by the end of the year? Oh, gosh. Sorry, I know. We were talking MTV, but this is fucking so real because this is a week in which psychopath, bear killer, like, creatine monster, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has changed the sort of vaccine recommendations for children getting rid of. What did he get rid of? flu, RSV, rotavirus, hepatitis, and meningitis. Who needs to be vaccinated against this thing?

He has done everything he said he wouldn't do in his Senate confirmation. And he never said he wouldn't get rid of Mithprostone. And under the head of the FDA, Marty McCarrey, they have, you know, they pledged to conduct a full review of Mifapristone's safety. This is a gimmee to the hard right. Kennedy has proven himself absolutely fucking chainless. when pandering to the political right and has totally politicized the FDA and HHS and the CDC.

And I could absolutely see a world in which they get rid of Miffipristone, which is the drug used in most medication abortions, which account for as a 2023, 63% of all abortions. We don't talk about abortion. And I think there are a lot of reasons for that, not least among them because it didn't win Democrats 2024, but that doesn't mean the issue isn't insanely earth. urgent and it is a matter of like national health concern and it is just as urgent as vaccine schedules

and MRNA research and everything else he's doing to fuck with American bodies over at his cabinet agency. So I'm curious to know whether that's something that, you know, people can choose by the end of the year. You know, as you started that answer, I thought, okay, I could see it happening. If I were to bet, I would bet against it only because Donald Trump has seemed skittish in going too hard right on that issue for purely political reasons and a bunch of

Republicans in more competitive areas feel the same way for either real reasons or political reasons. But to our whatever question we asked a couple before this on the gerrymandering race to the bottom, as the country

gets more polarized and there are, and it's like, oh, there are a bunch of Republicans in blue states that we're worried about now? Less. Certainly less. And you start to worry that like wouldn't the right who have now outlawed abortion in most red states love to stick it to the blue states.

You can't get pregnant and have a miscarriage in a red state. Right. Right. Like that's where we're at. So the idea that they would make it, if not illegal, very difficult to access medication abortion seems very possible. It would be a stupid fucking thing to do in a midterm year. Yes. I will say.

But could happen in, you know, December. Or in early January. Yeah. If I was, I bet Susie Wiles and Trump himself are like, hey, we want to win the midterms? Let's cool it. Simmer down. Let's just make sure kids can die of polio and results before. That we're okay with.

Yeah, cool. But who knows? Who knows? Pod Save America is brought to you by strawberry.mee. You know that feeling when a new year starts and you tell yourself, okay, this is the year. Work is going to be great. And then two weeks later, you're already burned out again. Yeah, we've been there.

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combe.combe. And try your first coaching session for 50% off that's strawberry. Dot me slash crooked. Is Gavin Newsom still the frontrunner at this time next year? Big question. How was his podcast? You were just up there. I was just up there.

You had told me about this. How was it? For people who are art, people who like street art, there is a rotating series of art exhibits in the governor's mansion, including a collection of Barry McGee surfboards. If you know who Barry McGee, aka Twist is, a former graffiti writer who now is part of the collection at Lackma, he's amazing.

And I walked in and I was like, this is fucking awesome. And he was like, you know who Barry McGee is? And I was like, you know who Barry McGee is? And then I was like, you are never getting elected president. Like, you cannot know who Barry McGee is and get elected president. That's too fucking street smart. Gavin Newsom is a delightful interviewer. I will say we had a great time.

It's really good at it. He is very good, surprisingly good, because most people who are politicians are completely self-involved. And he, I think surprisingly, like, deeply curious. And he's a chatter, you know. I think he has a lot of passion for the job. I think there's going to be just a massive question about the California of it all, right? It's the biggest one for me. It's the biggest one.

I have long thought that you need someone that is as memeable as can drive the meme machine the way that Trump does and has the Zero Fox, Yosemite Sam style arsenal. And he's that dude. He's establishing himself early as by far the most joyful warrior in the pack. I just wonder if it is off-putting to the very early. Democratic Party that looks at the stakes and it's just like it's hard to know. I mean, it's very hard for me to understand how he plays to a party that right now is largely oriented against Trump and has definitely not declared what it is for and how it wants to be for those things, do you know? So I'm not answering your question. No, but I mean. But I mean.

I've been thinking about this for all because I, again, the more I watch Gavin Newsome, get to know Gavin Newsome, like talk to, you know, interview him, be interviewed on his. The more I like him. Yeah. And I really appreciate, like, what he has been doing to fight not just in California, but nationally for the party. As we get closer to an actual Democratic primary, I do, there's part of me that always thinks like, oh, this is like a California governor.

Yeah. This California. Yeah. So California. And it's not about him necessarily. It's just about like. Although he did think, like, should I suggest he wear his hair differently? Like, if he wants a better shot.

That's something. That is something. Cut it shorter? But, like, do. Did you read the Atlantic profile on him? I started to. But I was literally going to meet the man and I just had like a heavy dose of Gavin Newsom that day. And I much respect, Governor.

I just was a lot of you. It's just, there's a couple of things. They talked about the California of it all. And they were like, you know, another reason for hesitation might be that California has other laws that must have the makers of Republican attack ads salivating with anticipation. In 2020, the state passed SB 132, allowing male criminals to self-identify into women's prisons, into women's prisons. One of those transferred to remain Carol is awaiting trial on charges of raping two female inmates. It's like, okay. There you go.

Again, this is just like when I first. Kamala Harris. I know. And again, when I first heard that story, I was like, well, that seems. And you look it up. And you're like, okay, well, there's a law and you get it. And you're like, okay, well, if you're going to provide everyone medical care and then you're going to say that transition care is medical care. You know, like one thing leads to another and it makes sense in context.

But then when you see it, you're like, oh, okay, that's going to be a challenge. Yeah. And he's just very, like, he's very California. Yeah. Like, he fits the bill of a California. You know, it was like they talked about his wedding to his current wife. And it was like, you know, the ceremony was conducted by Carol Simone, a modern day mystic whose website describes her as a medium and astrology. Just like, it's just the most California shit ever.

Right. And like, we elected a serial philanderer. And like he has been married a trillion times and had affairs with porn stars. And yet we're like, don't you dare get married by a mystic. Donald Trump is a good code switcher. And that like he is, you know, Manhattan. He's not Manhattan. He's out of rural.

And he's rich. But he's sort of like he's got a chip on his shoulder about being rich. So he's sort of, you know. So there's, he's got that. Barack Obama had his feet in 10 different worlds. Like Bill Clinton, Oxford. Arkansas, right? Like the people who succeed in politics nationally can identify with the other part of the country, if not by resume and identity, then by just some experience in their life,

some feel. And maybe he has that. Maybe he maybe he can do that. But that's, you know, we haven't seen, I mean, we haven't seen this sort of talking tour yet. He is going to have a memoir come out in February. He will be on tour for that and will be an interesting case study. and his, what does it, press the flesh skills. Yeah. But who else? Who else do you think for the... Listen, I had a conversation with a, you know, Big Dem over the break, and she was saying J.B. Pritzker is who she liked.

Okay. Okay. She thought she had been taking regular doses of Moundjaro in preparation for that. Ooh. Her word's not mine. Okay. I think they're going to see some governors. Josh Piro is going to be up in the mix.

Maybe Gretchen Whitmer raises her hand. I think Wes Moore is out. absolutely going to be on people's dance cards. I mean, it's a, I think it's going to. Maybe Gallego is out there? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe.

I mean, I think it's going to be a pretty big field. Hopefully not, like, so big as to be unwieldy. But listen. No one's, no one's popping out for me ahead of the pack right now. Well, I mean, that's why it's just Gavin Newsom and his tote bags with Kid Rock and the laying of the hands. I think that that is the greatest meme I've ever fucking seen. If you're listening to us, Gavin Newsom's social media team, please make that into a tote bag, people will buy it.

All right, I got my, is this, is this my sixth? Yeah, I have my sixth. I don't even know which number I was on. I'm going to, this is my sixth, well, this is my sixth, but I can continue to ask questions. What will the White House actually look like? Okay, so here's the news. Here's the news, John, today. Actually, this is news of the week, but there's always news about the White House.

The ballroom is going to be now as tall as the main mansion itself. Oh, yes. Which means. Which means. We also have to add on to. The West Wing. Well, exactly. So they're considering a one-story addition to the West Wing's colonnade in an effort to create symmetry with the two-story colonnade that would lead from the White House to the ballroom.

And then there's going to be maybe an office suite for the First Lady, which would be nice since they destroyed any office she once had in a reconstructed White House movie theater. Well, thank God they can screen more Sly Stallone films, I guess, in full 4K HD or whatever the fuck it is. Point is, he is completely rebuilding the White House. Yeah. It is not going to resemble itself by whatever, whenever construction is complete. It's shocking. It's going to look like another Trump Tower. God.

And I would not be surprised if he just puts the fucking name. Trump and gold. I made this joke to Dan on Thursdays Friday's podcast. It's okay. Yeah, it's the, we did this for the. 11 correspondence dinner. We had a big slide up, big picture of, oh, God, if Donald Trump did run for president, this is what the White House would look like. And it's, we wish we should put it up on the screen.

You were Cassandra. It looks very close to. You're in the predictions business. Yeah, right. To what it's, what it's headed. Well, he's got to remember who lives there, right? Isn't that what they're saying is the reason that everything's labeled right now in the White House with this hideous gold lettering that really looks like the kind of lettering you'd see on a restroom door is because he's so adult and so. forgetful and his brain isn't working right that he needs reminders about like this is the

oval office, this is the situation room, and this is the White House where Trump lives. This is where you live, sir. But the, you know, I mean, it's no surprise that architects keep resigning from this project. It's so fucking controversial. And without being like the worst downer in America, it's also symbolic of the work it's going to take to rebuild our fucking country after this person is out of office, right? Like he is fundamentally changing institutions. He's rebuilding our democracy.

I don't want to say rebuilding because he's destroying the democracy, but he's rebuilding American society in a very... In his image. In his image. And it's going to take time. Just like undoing his hideous renovation of the White House is going to take. I don't know. How long is that going to do that?

And who's going to do it with what money? You know, it's a metaphor for everything else he's doing. So I'm curious to see what it looks like in December. Well, it made me think, too, sort of my last, it was like a smaller question. but I started the episode by mentioning this like the 250th birthday for America. And I do wonder how much the birthday, the anniversary, is going to matter in 2026 because they are going to go all out for that.

And I think that in an election year and in a year where people are starting to think about 2028, there is, and this happens in America when there are centennials, bicentennials, like there is going to be a debate over the meaning of America, the meaning of what it is to celebrate America's 250th anniversary. Donald Trump is going to be in control of that, unfortunately. He's got the White House thing. They're going to do firework. Military parade.

This is going to be a big thing. Jingoism, run amok. It's going to be a big thing in the summer. And they're going to want to bait, you know, they're going to, you know, America hating libs. And they talk down the, and so we're going to have to have a good response to that about the America that we love. Well, and also, nobody owns the flag. Nobody owns the flag. Yeah.

Nobody owns the white house. either. Well, I know. I don't see how it went. You know, I wonder if there's a drug that will induce a Rip Van Winkle like state for all of us so we can just fucking wake up at the end of the year instead of living through all of it. Like if this is the first week, stop this train. I want to get off. I look forward to our end of the year Pod Save America episode where you're going to have to come for that. And we can talk about you and I doing these questions. We need to run it back. And MTG will be running the official nominee. We're going to have so many clips to play. Oh, fuck. If we miss any good questions also and you're listening, let us know. Please. I mean, if we, we definitely, definitely miss it.

There was one that I wanted to, not to freak everyone out, but, I mean, maybe it won't. You'll know, you'll know that the Republicans are legitimately worried about losing the Senate. Yeah. And not just the House. Yeah. If, if we start getting retirement from, announcement from our friends Sam Alito and or Clarence Thomas. Oh, fuck. They are definitely going to do that.

They are definitely going to, let me just say, they are going to, at the end of this term, there will be two vacancies in the Supreme Court. No question. I think that's almost without question. Well, but they lose this. So, but it's interesting because if they lose the Senate, they can do it. But if they, if they announced their retirements in June, they can get confirmation started in September. And you know. But it's a gauge a little bit of how confident they are that they'll keep the Senate. I think they're, I think they. Because they could do it in the lame duck even if they lose the Senate. But that's also, imagine, imagine Sam Alito and or and or Thomas announcing their retirement in like November. and then they suddenly get an, I guess they could. Yeah, I think they're going to do it at the end of the term. The problem is like, will the conservative zygote that is going to replace them be fully hatched by then? Because they're going to nominate someone in utero. It's just going to be like an AI chatbot, like a right-wing AI chatbot that's been like trained on fucking Alex Jones.

Live forever. That's it. Live forever. Anyway, on that note, happy 2026. Oh, boy. Alex, this was fun. Was it? Thanks.

I had a good time. I did. I did. I did. Thank you for having me, buddy. Thanks, thanks everyone for listening. We'll be back in your feed with a new episode of Pod Save America on Tuesday. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts.

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