Pod Save America - "America’s Next Top Press Secretary." (Live from D.C.!)

Episode Date: April 15, 2022

Guest host Jane Coaston joins Jon, Jon, Tommy, and Dan live in the nation's capital! Donald Trump makes his first major campaign investment while many question if his endorsements are losing their political power, Republicans remain intent on fighting culture wars over abortion, Disney, and LGBTQ rights while voters care most about the economy, and White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki and comedian Mike Birbiglia join for a game called As The President Has Long Said.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.  

All right. What a incredibly long two weeks to slow the spread that was. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jane Koston, host of New York Times The Argument and resident of Navy Yard. Let's go.

I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vsort. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. And also joining us tonight here at the Anthem, comedian Mike Birbiglia and White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. All right. All right. So it's been two years since we've done one of these. So where were we?

All right, Donald Trump. This week, an unemployed exterminator from Ohio named Dustin Thompson became the first January 6th defendant to tell a jury that he stormed the U.S. Capitol with a violent mob because of Donald Trump's own words. Quote, if the president's giving you almost an order to do something, I felt obligated to do that. The New York Times also reported that shortly before the insurrection began, an aide to Roger Stone held a call with Trump supporters where he urged them to

quote, descend upon the Capitol and promised that Trump would impose a form of martial law to keep Joe Biden from taking office. We also learned that the knowledge of Trump's scheme to overturn the election went beyond his inner circle. A book by Jane's colleague, Jonathan Martin, says that Trump told Mitch McConnell that if Brian Kemp decertified Biden's win in Georgia, leaders in Pennsylvania and Michigan would follow. But McConnell kept it all quiet because he didn't want to lose the Senate races in Georgia, of course.

How did that go? Good job, Mitch. You nailed it. A plus. You nailed it. Meanwhile, Trump's former chief of staff and Ginny Thomas text buddy, Mark Meadows, has just been removed from the voter roll in North Carolina as the state investigates.

Yeah, one less voter. Fuck him. Yes, purges. We got him. We got Mark Meadows. He ain't voting there anymore. Wouldn't help Cal Cunningham. Oh, no. Just saying. Tough, but fair. Tough, but fair. Didn got Mark Meadows. He ain't voting there anymore. Wouldn't help Cal Cunningham. Oh, no.

Just saying. Tough. Tough but fair. Tough but fair. Didn't lose by one. Speaking of text buddies, right? Anyway, he's under investigation now. Oops.

That's very... These things are permanent? Oops. All right. So, Jane, I feel like the big question around the January 6th investigation has been just how much responsibility Trump and his inner circle bear for the attack itself. To what extent do you think all these recent revelations strengthen that case? Well, I think that it's important to separate like what is a legal

argument and what actually happened because it's Trump responsible. Like, yeah. yeah yeah we all saw that we were all here we all did this like if you live in DC you remember that day very distinctly because it was like wow there are a lot of National Guard everywhere and we can't go anywhere and everything is locked down and there's a giant fence fun um but I think legally I'm interested by the Trump made me do it excuse um which is again like if you're a defense attorney, you are coming up with whatever will work. And so I like also the note of Trump almost gave me an order. Almost is a very critical word in legal circles, like or or is. But I do think that. Yeah.

And I will tell you the almost it didn't end up working because he was guilty. No, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. But I respect think that, yeah. And I will tell you the almost, it didn't end up working because he was found guilty today. No, it doesn't work. It doesn't work. But I respect the attempt. But I think that here you're seeing the idea, like, when you saw something being put together and you saw people repeatedly saying, like, descend upon the Capitol, let's talk about martial law, like, the way people were using words. And then for people to say like, no, no, no, we didn't mean those words. I think that there's a legal part to

that argument of attempting to remove yourself from culpability. But then there's like, yeah, you did it. And then you told us all about it. And then you tweeted it too. Like, this isn't court. I don't have to listen to you. Yeah. Well, love it. Some people that believed at the time that Trump bore some responsibility and culpability were Republican leaders, including Mitch McConnell. He went from someone who knew about Trump's scheme and said nothing to someone who condemned Trump after the attack to someone who just told Jonathan Swan that he will support Trump if he's the nominee. He's all in. He's on the Trump train. How much culpability does Mitch have here? And is that a tenable position for him and other Republicans to take? Well, let's start with the

second part. Is it a tenable position for Republicans like Mitch McConnell to take? Mitch McConnell to take. Not for God, but fine. But let's talk about, but on earth, no. And sadly, not for a good reason. It's untenable not because like the media will hold him accountable. Don't wait for that. It's untenable because the people that will hold them accountable agree with us that Mitch McConnell is full of shit. They just think he's not fascist enough, right? They're like, wait a second, we don't want somebody who's half in on Trump, who will say he'll support him, but not be for the authoritarian parts. We want somebody that's all in. Trump isn't for this nuance. It's not like Trump's like, oh, you know what? I'm going to be okay with this Mitch McConnell guy now that he said he'll endorse me. No, they're

done. They're done because he didn't go along with the coup for two days in January. Now, as for Mitch McConnell's culpability, I think we have to be fair-minded people. Good setup. What kind of forbearance do we owe Mitch McConnell for three moments in his life? One, December 15th, acknowledging that Joe Biden is the president or has won the election. January 19th, declaring that the insurrection was provoked by Trump. And then three, on February 13th, calling Trump practically and morally responsible before voting to acquit him in the impeachment. Right. And I have great news. We owe him none. No forbearance whatsoever.

You know, you don't. You do you do not in fact have to hand it to mitch mcconnell you don't in fact have to hand it to mitch mcconnell look let's say you have an arsonist and he's sexually aroused by the fire he started in a school wow this took a turn yeah and then there's a brief moment where he where this arsonist feels guilty and calls 911 and says, there's a fire in a school. And then obviously remembers himself and calls back later and says, false alarm. It's a burnt pot roast. As he watches a school in flames crumble before him.

What are we talking about? Where's the arousal? Is Mitch McConnell the pot roast? No, no. He's the arsonist? Is Mitch McConnell the pot roast? No, no. He's the arsonist. Who's aroused here? Mitch McConnell is sexually turned on by getting three Supreme Court seats done during the Trump administration. That's the fire he started.

The school is us. Go to your next question. Go to your next question. I don't think it was a yes or no question. It was a pot roast. What's on these cards? I think that's... Do you know where you are?

We're back. So, Tommy, we have talked before many times about how Trump's two impeachment hearings made for powerful television that ultimately had. I'm being very generous. So was the dropout. Really is good. Powerful television that had ultimately very little political impact. Do you think it's possible that the January 6th committee can avoid that fate when they begin these hearings in just a few weeks?

Yeah, I mean, obviously, I think the hearings are the right thing to do. I think the impact depends, not to duck your question, on what we learn. Congressman Jamie Raskin, who's on the January 6th committee, give it up. He says we'll learn about new crimes that're not in the public domain that's a nice little teaser nice little like arson yeah i don't know that's fucking a pot roast and a fire if the doj charges trump or one of his goons with a crime that would be news that would probably break through but i do think for me the lesson from the last two impeachments were i left feeling like there was a divide between people that paid a lot of attention us and then you guys and then the MAGA types who paid attention for a very

different reason and then there were a bunch of independent voters swing voters or people that weren't really paying attention who kind of caught the edges of what was happening on TV and what they mostly thought was, I don't like all this partisan bickering, right? Because that's kind of like the lazy thing that everyone can say. So I hope I'm wrong. You know, if Mueller doesn't kind of screw the pooch and let Bill Barr completely whitewash his report for a week,

maybe things would be different, but I don't know. I was going to say, Mueller's not involved, is he? No. Where's that guy? Does anyone disagree? Does anyone think that we can get these things to mean something? Look, every congressional hearing

has been incredibly impactful, and no one can prove otherwise. Okay. Well, so Dan... No, I think in seriousness, you have to do it. Doing it is better than not doing it. These are data points, and the question is,

are you actually going to make sure that people know about it? The fact that it didn't work last time is not an argument for not doing it. It's an argument for doing it better. Right, and also, we're talking about this in the context of politics because I guess that's how I asked it. But outside of that context, it's important for the country to know the full story of what happened when our seat of government was attacked and they tried to overturn an election like that's that's an

important story to tell whether it has no political impact especially because the person at the center of it is still obsessed with it happening right he's still like it's always january 2020 for him like it will be for the rest of time and i don't know you know if you follow like there was a story I think last year where Maggie Haberman reported that Trump firmly believed that he would be reinstalled in August and National Review was like yeah he actually does like he straight up thinks he'll be returned to office which as a side note is weird to me because it's not like Trump seemed like he was having that great time as being president anyway like if you can just I just, I mean, if we've learned anything over the last couple of days, it's like, why can't you just go be rich somewhere else?

Totally. Just go be rich. Go hang out. He doesn't know happiness. Well, because it's a vengeance play now. Nobody's just, like, he doesn't want to, he doesn't want to die and be the guy, he's like, in his mind, he's like, I'm going to go out saying that I, you know, he knows that he didn't actually win the election.

Does he? I genuinely think at this point we're in that weird moment. You think he's made himself believe it? I think that we've gotten to a point where he has made himself believe that the Kraken is still coming. I feel like even saying that, I was just like, oh, God. All those words. Sidney Powell's right there. You're going to summon her.

No, no, God. All those words. Sidney Powell's right there. You're going to summon her. No, no, no. But yeah, I think he really does believe in some manifestation that this is all true. Yeah. Well, so Dan, there's this debate within the Democratic Party about how much candidates in these midterms should focus on Trump and January 6th. There's evidence from polling and focus groups

that it's not a priority for most voters. There's also evidence that most voters, a majority of Americans, believe that Trump bears at least some responsibility for the attack as recent as January 22. What do you think? How should Democrats handle this one? Well, first, I'm shocked to hear there's a debate in the Democratic Party. Never had. Yeah, no. First time for everything, I guess. Look, I think as a party, we are dramatically overcomplicating the simple. Of course, we have to talk about Trump. He's the former president of the United States. He's the leader of the Republican Party. And he is a coin flip away from being the future president of the United States. It's insane not to talk about him. The fact that these focus groups and polls show that voters are not interested in the

thing we want them to be interested in is not a reason not to talk about it. It's a reason to talk about it. We know that the only way that we can keep the majority in the Senate, we can win a huge chunk of House seats, and we can keep all the key governorships without winning a single Trump voter from 2020. All we have to do is get the people who voted for Biden to come out again. And the way we do that is to remind them of the stakes. And I think the one lesson here is you have to do it. You can't like half-ass it like Glenn Trumpkin, you have to tell a story. And that story has to be forward-looking, right? It can't just be, we're going to relitigate January 6th. It's not what happened. It's what could happen if these guys get the reign of power. And that's how you have to work Trump into your narrative.

Yeah. And it's not some like, oh, what could happen, theoretical thing. I mean, there are candidates, Republican candidates running all over the country, particularly in key offices for secretary of state, for governor in key states, who have basically not just pledged fealty to Trump, but promised to overturn a future election if given the chance. So January 6th is not something I think that should be framed as just what happened in the past, and we need accountability, and we need a full story, but there is an ongoing threat to democracy, an ongoing assault to democracy by not only Trump, but now most of the Republican Party that is very real.

If it's not central to the election in some way, even though voters rightly are concerned about the economy, inflation, and everything else, but if we don't make that also central, the threat to democracy, then what are we doing? Yeah, and I do think a lot of times we yell at the people who will listen to us it's a lot easier to yell at democrats than it is like feckless mainstream media institutions that are not good at listening to the people uh who are criticizing them but i think sometimes we we take the narratives that

are offered to us the right-wing media offers us one democrats are evil and stupid the mainstream media offers us a second democrats on the defensive, Republicans have put them on their heels. And we realize that this conversation about January 6th is hard to fit into that. And they don't really want to talk about it because it's not as fun and the truth seems partisan. And so they'd rather avoid it. And so we give into that and we try to talk about policies that we know poll better, but that becomes permission for the major institutions that cover politics to go along with what Democrats are saying by changing the subject. And then it's this vicious circle, right? It's a vicious circle where people don't say it's the most important thing. We don't talk about it

as being the most important thing. And the country kind of moves on, even as we creep ever closer to a kind of fascistic right-wing movement taking control of virtually all Republican states at this point. Jane, would you like to respond on that direct attack? I know, I know. I didn't hear. I felt it. I just... I was talking about a lot of other places. I like to think that we are not feckless, we are feckful. Has anyone ever used the word feckful?

I like it. I like it. I think I did it. You coined it. We may make an NFT of it. I'm not talking about the podcast department. Love the podcast department. Mikey Barb's. I mean, one last thing, thinking about the Meadows situation where, you know, Republicans have made voter fraud a central issue now.

And it seems like we can only find Republicans who've committed voter fraud, including one who was the White House Chief of Staff. Republicans, of course, intend to make crime and voter fraud top issues in the midterms, even as people like Trump and Meadow are committing crimes and voter fraud. Is this hypocrisy worth pointing out anywhere besides on Twitter or here in a Pod Save America show? I don't know. I mean, I think it's worth saying crime is bad when anyone does it. Like, the idea of, like, yo, I can commit crimes, but you cannot commit crimes. I think that that's something that we saw, like, during January 6th of people being like, no, no, no, we love cops. Why aren't you letting us hit you with flags and

scream at you and mace you we love cops this is how we show how much we love cops but it's like no no they hate cops but we love them let us love you and like i think that it's really important to make the point of like yeah crime is bad that No one likes crime. I think that there's something to be said of like if you are living in a neighborhood that faces crime, that's bad. But also if you are committing crimes like voter fraud, that's bad. And also if you are a black person

who votes in a different district and you're sent to prison and you're a white person who votes in a different district and you're sent to prison and you're a white person who lives in the villages and people are like oh sweetheart you just didn't know better no like this is where I think ironically like I don't know I feel like crime is crime and crime is bad, and all people who commit crime should receive punishments. And then we should talk about criminal justice reform and talk about prison reform and talk about what an absolute scandal D.C. jail is. But that's a different podcast. It's a different podcast.

Can I float a crime by you? Let's say you're Jared Kushner. You know your mic is live, right? You're the shadow secretary of state. You happen to help your crown prince friend cover up the murder and brutal dismemberment of a journalist. And then you get a $2 billion kickback

six months after you leave the White House. Is that a crime we're talking about? That's a crime. Yeah, and so crime is crime. Okay. I feel like, you know, there's really, like, I feel like crime is crime works as a t-shirt very effective because the argument seems to be from Republicans that, like, no, no, no, like, your crime is worse. Like, it's way worse if you commit crimes over here.

But if I commit crimes over here, well, that's different. Yeah. It's like when they were like, Don Jr., he's just a boy. A 40-something-year-old man. They very much are putting the white and white-collar crime in this decision. I think in all seriousness, I think it is

absolutely critical that regardless of what Merrick Garland does or what comes of this, that we talk about what happened on January 6th and what they are planning to do in 2024 as a crime. Because when we use terms like assault on democracy or stealing elections or election subversion, that leans into the media narrative of everyone other than Jane's colleagues that normalizes these as typical political political tactics right it is not look they found a clever way to win elections by running it's not like they're running clever ads or invented talking points it is they are committing crimes we should and we should if we don't use

that term no one else will you don't think a lot of people are just using the word subversion and casual conversation yeah just well i mean republicans divided over over intense tactics Okay, we will be back with more news in just a bit Now it's time for OK Stop The rules are arcane, opaque, and inscrutable Now it's time for OK Stop. The rules are arcane, opaque, and inscrutable. Most people don't know this, but I found the first OK Stop video on a scroll in the crooked offices. A little bit of brand lore for you there. For those who have not played The Rules Are This, we will watch a video,

and when we have something to say about it, we will say OK Stop. What would happen if a radish was brought to life by a genie that had just read Mein Kampf? Well, his name is Charlie Kirk, and he works for a fascist organization called Turning Points USA, and he had some ideas about real estate. Let's roll the clip. We have a huge housing crisis in our country. Okay, stop. Okay, stop. I would like to note here a couple of things. One, if there were any justice in the world, we would not know who this is.

Yep, for sure. Very good. Very good setup. I long to live. One of the things about the Trump era is that it just introduced all of these people into my mind, and I want them out. I want them all got like Kellyanne Conway. I don't care about your marriage.

No. I don't know. I don't care. You know what's amazing, actually? It actually was like the worst possible outcome, which is this. Trump runs. Nobody that was considered respectable would be part of it. So all the kind of just detritus from

the republican movement just got the big jobs inside of the trump organization then he wins and all the scum sucking craven bastards outside were like well now i want in there's power there so basically the dumbest worst people then also were kind of buttressed by the old hands that all came in after and now we have to know who this fucking asshole is. Let's continue. I've not seen in a long period of time. But I believe that we need to build horizontally, not vertically. It's one of my speeches.

Developers don't like it when I say this, but it's true. Okay, stop. Developers. Yeah. Do you think he knows a lot of developers? I think he's just going up being like, you there, developer, you're going to hate this. Developers hate this one weird trick. For turning the country into a strip mall. Let's continue.

The more liberal the voter. It just is. So if you are, the closer to the ground you are, the more conservative you are. We should encourage people to spread horizontally and not vertically. Look at Denver. The higher the high rises, has Denver become less free or more free? It's become a dystopian nightmare. Okay, stop.

I really like this politics that appears to be based on the book The Wind and the Willows. Badgers and moles, they're down. They stay down. They wear their bow ties. I have to ask, where does he think Donald Trump lives? Yes. You know, those famous...

What do you got? What do you got? Listen, we're doing great, people. What do you got, John? I're doing great, people. What do you got, John? I just like, this is, so this is like, this is his stump speech. He goes around and talks about high rises and that the higher, this is a thing now,

that the higher the building is, the more liberal you are and the lower, that's a thing. That's absolutely right. Shit, that's another thing. My view on this is that conservatives need to get even lower. Forget ground level.

Underground. That is where the real, that's where the real, that is where the real right-wing action has always been. Caves, orcs, sex dungeons. That's where real right-wing conservatism, as it does its best work,

deep, deep underground. Okay, let's go. Know might say, Charlie, that's a correlation with causation. Think about it. If you're on the 32nd floor renting, not owning, if you're not in the weeds and in the yard and understanding what it takes to grow food and to maintain land, are you going to be more or less likely to actually be a conservative? Okay, stop. Charlie, buddy. You really had something there with correlation not causation. He was onto it. You're so close to figuring it out. You almost cracked the code. You're like, wait a second. Maybe ice cream doesn't cause

sunburns. Maybe it's somehow connected to a third reason. Something that happens seasonally. I see a connection between Christmas and snowstorms, but I can't figure out what it is. Also, I just, I really, I want to know where we got into tilling the land talk

from Charlie Kirk, noted. Does he till the land, would you guess? He's not doing a lot of weeding. I'm just going to guess here especially because it just is like the, it's just like word salad but it's not even a good salad. He's not a big fan of renters either.

Charlie's like, you know who should count more? Landowners. Why didn't we think of that earlier? What if only landowners had political power in this country? I'm Charlie Kirk, and that's my idea. Can't believe we haven't thought of that

before. It's an original. It's the first person to think of it. What if just the landowners, just a certain kind of landowner, maybe one per household. I also think you're being very unfair to Charlie Kirk. He knows a thing or two about dirt. He's buried a lot of bodies in his mother's backyard. Wow. Okay. Just something to think about. Just something to think about. Should we continue the clip? The higher the building, every single study shows they become more liberal over time. It's happening in Phoenix, happened in Denverver happened atlanta happened in dallas happened in chicago have everywhere

and yet few people actually say that out loud whatever does he think this is like a brave truth few people are willing everyone's thinking it everyone's thinking say it out loud every study has told us about the notorious liberal heartland of Dallas. When I think, I mean, that's also like Dubai. Have you ever been to, like, if you've ever seen Jerry World, it's very tall. Noted

woke stronghold, Dallas Cowboy Stadium. John, did you know, did you know what had happened to Denver? I didn't know that Denver had become a dystopian nightmare. It's like Denver collapsed and we didn't even read about it in Punchbowl. I don't understand. Denver's lost?

What happened to Denver? It's so sad now. It didn't make Axios. It didn't make even the end of Playbook. It was always a birthday. It didn't even get with the birthdays. It's also just so like we're so, again

because Republicans just for some reason got to be the antagonist in our political system and Democrats have to be the protagonist. They're allowed to just be like, fuck the cities, they're full of assholes and everybody knows it. And there's just no compliment on the other side. We're just not allowed to have the same conversation. They're allowed to

roam the country just making things up about America's cities that were just violent hell holes full of tall buildings filled with communists. Would that it were. We should just attack rural areas. Ridiculous. Anything else, Dan?

Did we finish the clip or did we already did that? We did. I think we did. Is it done? Yeah, it's done. Do you have any other jokes I wanted to tell them? I just, again, I really, if you told me that there was something that we could do that would mean that I would never need to think about Charlie Kirk ever again, I'm in. I'll sign that. Let's do it. That's great. One of those men in black things.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, we missed one. Ready? Everybody ready? Yeah. A lot of us, liberal and conservative alike, did a fair amount of horizontal growing during the pandemic, I'm just saying. And that's OK, stop.

All right, let's talk some more news. Seven months out from the midterms, voters keep telling pollsters that they want their leaders to focus on the economy. But Republicans seem intent on fighting culture wars everywhere they can. In the last year, right-wing attempts to ban books have hit an all-time high. In Oklahoma and Kentucky,

Republicans just banned all abortions with no exceptions for rape or incest. In Florida, Republicans are threatening to retaliate against Disney, the state's largest employer, for merely speaking out against a new law that targets gay and trans kids. Senate Republicans used Judge Ketanji Brown-Jackson's confirmation hearings to question the Supreme Court's 2015 decision to legalize same-sex marriage and attack the judge's mainstream sentencing record as soft on child abuse, a charge that was picked up by Marjorie Taylor Greene, who now calls Democrats the, quote, party of pedophiles, as well as various right-wing pundits who are accusing Democrats of being groomers. Let's take a listen. Grooming.

Groomer. Grooming. Groom. Groomers. Groomer in chief. Grooming. Groomer. Groomer.

Grooming. Groomers. Grooming. Groomers. Groomer. Grooming. Grooming. Groomer.

Grooming. Grooming. Groomers. I think that's enough. Yeah, that's, yeah. Grooming. Half of these people wouldn't know a hairbrush. Fucking.

Fucking. They are on message. Can't be un't know a hairbrush. They are on message. They are all on message. Jane, it seems like Republicans now want government to dictate what we read, what our kids learn, who we marry, what women do with their bodies, and what political beliefs private companies should hold. What do you think happened to the party of individual liberty and limited government? do with their bodies and what political beliefs private companies should hold. What do you think happened to the party of individual liberty and limited government? How much time do you have?

First and foremost, I think that the biggest thing has been that people do things and then people get mad at the people who are doing things and want them to stop and I think that the entire I mean I've talked a lot about I've written a lot about American conservatism and American conservatism has always been this weird grab bag of people who normally don't like each other but they hate other people more so they're like all right we'll hang out for now and I think the biggest though, has been that when people have used freedom and used limited government and they've been like, I am going to be free to be who I am and marry who I want, all their people are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We didn't mean that. That's when you see that Marco Rubio is going after Amazon. He's not

going after Amazon because they make people pee in bottles. It's because they're quote unquote woke. You'll notice that all of these Republicans are not standing up for unions. They're standing up for unionesque. It's sort of like imagine if you went to Ann Taylor Loft but it wasn't Ann Taylor Loft. It was like Ann Taylor Loft adjacent. That's what they want to do with unions. I think a lot of this is about the means by which we control three things kids sex and the idea of any of those things intersecting and i think that

the real tragedy here is not what this is going to do to people politically because we're allowed to swear here right yeah in these issues i don't give a fuck about the politics. Like, the idea, they're like, oh, no, no, this Florida bill, it polls well. I'm like, lots of things poll well. Trans kids matter more than your polls. Like, I was a queer kid in Ohio in the 90s. I did not poll well. You could not have.

I didn't get to poll at all. Indeed. But like, the idea here. Had to wait till college. You got to do it in college? Yeah, you know, I mean... But, like, the idea here, and it's like, you hear about this, and it's like,

it was also interesting how this became this weird kind of, you know, it went exactly the way everybody thought it would go. Where it's like, no, no, no, we're just really concerned about gender identity. And then it suddenly became about gay people because, of course, it did. Of course, the people who really hate trans people aren't like, no, we're totally cool with lesbians. No, that's totally fine. No, it wasn't.

You heard earlier this week Charlie Kirk being like, well, we gave them marriage and now they want to come after your kids. And I'm like, okay, Anita Bryant. Let's bring it back to 1978. But now they want to come after your kids and i'm like okay anita bryant let's bring it back to 1978 but they also but they now they want to take marriage back i mean like john cornan over my dead body like talking about obergefell i was like what the fuck is this no no silly billies no i pay married joint taxes you can no no i, no. I mean. Like, no. I would say, Tommy, like, these positions are morally abhorrent, and you're right, fuck the politics. I would also say, though, like, do you think Republicans,

like, that these are all wedge issues now that are going to help them politically, or have they overreached on a lot of this stuff? Yeah, no, I think, to Jane's point, I mean, culture wars have animated the Republican Party for a long time. I mean, Trump was like a special breed of, did we all call him on the show a truffle pig for culture wars? I think that was, I feel like I'm stealing a joke, but he just shifts around. He finds a fucking thing. But he also was the person who was like, I'm the most pro-LGBT person ever.

Well, he's a line sack of shit too. Yeah. There's that. Well, yeah, that. But also the fact that like the moment he was out of the picture and just so focused on January 20th, you have all the social conservatives who are still mad about the Bostick decision before the Supreme Court and all of them being like, we the workplace or gay rights or civil rights, you see this sort of backlash or this reactionary conservative party. And I think the things we need to remember are, one, like you mentioned Anita Bryant, right? She was a nightmare of a singer celebrity who ran anti-gay campaigns in the late 70s in Florida, where she called gay men groomers or said they were recruiting kids.

The point I would say is we won that fight, right? And we can win it again. The other thing I'd point out is like, you know, anti-choice campaigners, that was not the core of the GOP until fairly recently. It was sort of like a post-Roe, like late 70s, 80s thing. What happened is they organized. So we just need to organize just as much as they did. And so I do think they've overreached on a lot of these issues. Like the Oklahoma anti-abortion law you mentioned, there's no exception for rape or incest. Doctors can get 10 years in prison for performing an abortion. I mean, 60% of the country supports abortion rights. You mentioned Cornyn, John Cornyn mentioning rolling back the Obergefell decision and taking back gay marriage. That polls at 60%.

Mike Braun, Senator no one here has ever heard of, Indiana, I believe. Yeah. He raised concerns about interracial marriage and whether that should be an issue left up to this date. I forgot to bring that one up. Yeah. That is fucking crazy, crazy stuff. I'll be sure and let my parents know. Right.

Yeah. They'll get right back to him. They better keep their heads on a circle we have to lift up the like they they frame this as all we're saving the kids this and i was like that's bullshit we have to lift up these more extreme voices and highlight that and say that is the future this oklahoma city anti-choice bill will be brought to the rest of the country if we don't fight now but i i want to also be really clear here because i think it's important to note here that, one, when you hear someone talking about the Florida bill, HB 1557, and they refer to it as a sex ed bill, it isn't. It doesn't mention sex ed. You could still tell any kid you wanted to,

any number of whatever heterosexual people get up to, but you just can't mention sexual orientation or gender identity. And it's interesting how every conservative writer is like, oh, you couldn't talk about explicit sex acts. I'm like, I see where your mind is. I know what you're up to. But it's very important here that the clear implication of how conservatives talk about this bill is that if gay and trans kids did not know about LGBT life or people or history, they simply wouldn't be LGBT. As if every single LGBT person was straight

until someone like waved something in front of their face. Until we all accidentally walked into a screening of Paris is Burning and we're like, we're in. I'm in. But I do think that it is just a... I think sometimes we spend so much time just sort of pushing back against this. And you're right, this is a moral panic.

These are several moral panics overlapping each other. No, it won't do anything to stop the gay kids from being gay and it won't stop the trans kids from being trans. It just makes pain for them. It makes pain for their gay teachers. It makes pain for their supportive parents. It makes pain for their supportive parents. This is about extracting pain. And so in the end, of course we win.

Of course we win. Those kids will grow up and discover who they are and figure it out, even if it means they have to go through a much more difficult childhood because they are showed a world in which they don't get to exist when they are outside of it. Well, the worst part is that some of those kids won't make it. And that's the thing about this. And some of those kids won't make it. You don's the thing about this. And some of those kids won't make it. You don't have to applaud that.

They just won't. But the point being, because it's false, because it's a moral panic, it can't succeed. It can only hurt. It can fail by hurting a lot of people. That's all. Well, and Jane, to your point about how there's a lot of conservatives who say, oh, it's about, you know, we don't want really young kids learning sex ed. So a Democrat in the legislature offered up an amendment to the

bill and the amendment said, okay, let's just use this language. No sex ed at all for kids K through three. And the Republicans voted. They said no discussions of sexual activity. And Republicans were like, nope, nope. that's not what we mean. That's not the spirit. Not quite specific enough. Yeah, that's not the spirit of the bill. We know what the spirit of the legislation is. The spirit of the bill is gay teachers

need to be fucking terrified that if they mention their spouse or just describe different kinds of relationships that they can be sued by the worst mom in the fucking class. That's what they want to be afraid of. They want teachers to go to bed afraid. They want being a teacher to be terrible

because ultimately they want to undermine the public schools and make them so rancorous and so awful. They want every school board meeting to be a fucking nightmare. Every PTA meeting to be a nightmare. Every teacher to think this job of service, this thing that they do because they care about kids, they want to make it so awful, so terrible, that only, that fewer and fewer people go into it, so that ultimately the public schools fall apart, so they can privatize one more aspect of community, destroy one more aspect

of our society. That is the goal. And also, let's keep in mind that there's a similar bill attempting to go forward in Georgia that would do the same to private schools. It would be, essentially, don't say gay in private schools. Because again, this parental right of action, you'll hear from some conservatives saying like, oh, that's not what the bill will do. Well, it's a parental right of action, so we'll have to find out in court. Right. Again, limited government, private school supporters.

I've always said that, you know. Love free speech. Love, yeah, right. You know, conservatism relies on going to court a lot so dan there was a vice piece this week about the party of pedophile attack in which a few elected democrats said that they don't want to quote give the attacks oxygen and that quote the best thing democrats can do is ignore the attack and focus on the pocketbook issues that polls show Americans care about most. Are they right?

Any piece of political advice that begins with ignore the attack should be ignored. Ignore the attack. If there was an era in which that worked, it was not it is not now and not any time which remember. So I do think it is important that Democrats not accept the premise of the argument and run their ads. That's that just we don't want to repeat the attack. Right. You don't want to all of a sudden, instead of talking about. Hi, I'm not a pedophile. I want to raise a minimum wage. I am very anti pedophile. No, that is not that is not a minimum wage. I'm very anti-pedophile. No, that is not a good approach.

But I think we have to take, and we can't get wrapped around the axle about this one element of it. We have to take this cultural war on full bore because it's idiotic that we divide the world into culture wars, which are terrible and bad and divisive and policy issues, which are what we should talk

about because we serve spinach as a party and you will like it. And think about Another great message. Yes, that's right. We're not putting that in an ad. It is, like I've seen that poll that says that a slight majority of Floridians like they don't say gay, but that is

a shit poll. That is because that poll is asked on Ron DeSantis' terms. Here's what we know. We know that all across the country, these issues that the Republicans are adopting on abortion, on gay rights, trans rights are unpopular. And even for the populations who may be sympathetic or concerned or anxious about some of the changes in our society, they do not think this is a thing we're supposed to be fucking focusing on right now. And that is the argument. If your opponent adopts unpopular positions that are directly removed from the things people should be focused on, you have to talk about it. And you have to highlight the fact that they are doing these things. So I think we have this sort of learned helplessness sometimes as a party that we're going

to run away from these things because this is where republicans are strong it's actually where they are weak because we don't make them pay for it so i hope that we aggressively take these on throughout the country it's the morally right thing to do but it's also the politically smart thing to do i also think it's worth for democrats for saying like because i think that we talked a little bit about book bans and i think that in a couple of states like Democrats have led the charge in some areas of California on attempting to remove books like To Kill a Mockingbird and other ones. Like you can't. No, no, no bans. No bans on books.

I don't even get that. Why? I don't understand that. And especially because, again, this is about an idea of kids that is separate from what kids are like. We've all been children. Have you met children? They ask weird questions and want to read real weird books. And that's awesome and cool and we should let them. And I

think that it's very important to have an ideology and to have a politics that says books are good, book bans are bad. And yeah, your kid's going to read some stuff. Like, I went to Catholic school, so I read a lot of stuff that was weird and scary and I didn't understand, and it was called the Bible. Shit goes down in that book. Again, like, I promise you, I'm no pollster, but I promise you,

if you go around telling people that Republicans want to ban books, that Republicans have talked about rolling back interracial marriage and gay marriage, that is not going to be popular. It's not just something you don't have to be afraid of. It's something that you should actually talk about and go on the attack of

because that is not a fucking popular position in most of the country. Right across the board, jailing teachers, investigating trans kids, jailing doctors and women, going after some of the most beloved people in our society. Not popular. teachers investigating trans kids, jailing doctors and nurses, and going after some of the most beloved people in our society. Not popular.

Just it's a miss. Love it. NBC reported new polling today that shows voters are much less inclined to vote for Republicans when they also, another thing they hear about them, Rick Scott, the guy in charge of winning back the Senate, has a plan. Everyone should be talking about Rick Scott all the time. Every time he leaves the room, people should be like, where's Rick Scott? Where's Rick Scott? Because Rick Scott decided to come out with a plan, much to Mitch McConnell's chagrin.

I don't agree with that. I think he loves it. I think it's a Republican plan. He loves it. I think it's a Republican plan. That will raise taxes on 100 million Americans and eliminate all federal government programs within five years. And then we're supposed to, like, re-up them if we want because Congress passes all kinds of laws all the time, including Obamacare, Medicare, Social Security. So we've got a Republican now, the guy who's in charge of taking back the Senate, who's out there proudly supporting a plan that says, yeah, I'm going to raise taxes on 100 million people and end Obamacare, Medicare, and Social Security in five years. Not popular.

So the poll, surprise, surprise, found that a lot of people, swing voters, everyone, found that when they heard this plan, they were much less likely to vote for Republicans in the midterms. I think... Yay, polls! Sometimes politics is hard to understand. I think the question is, if you're a Democratic campaign,

if you're an activist, if you're an organizer, it seems like this is a message you might want to break through. You only have limited resources. What do you focus on? Do you focus on this message? You're getting all these culture war attacks that we were just talking about from Republicans.

Like, how do you navigate this and still break through with the message that we know is pretty devastating? We were talking about this backstage, that one of the most unpopular moments in Trump's entire presidency was when he was actively fighting to repeal Obamacare. to repeal Obamacare. I think this is the fact that the Republican plan is to take over the government and sunset Medicare and Social Security while raising taxes on virtually everyone who is not rich should be the core of our message, should be the thing we say every day. It should become famous. And that will happen with discipline, everybody repeating it, everybody being on the same page. That is the, you know, as Biden would say, don't judge me by the almighty, judge me by the alternative. That is the alternative. That must be the core of it. However, I think we should not pretend

that we're going to avoid all these culture issues. As Dan said, they are interesting. They are fun to talk about. Ron DeSantis attacking Disney is fun and interesting. It is stupid and dumb and entertaining, and we will talk about it. And I think one thing that we have always said is you have to call out the game,

and I think we have to call out the game. And I think we have to call out the game in two ways. One, they're trying to distract from their deeply unpopular agenda. But also, because these are moral panics, because these are false, I think sometimes we get a little bit too much in the politics and not enough about the consequence. The story in the Texas Tribune, because they are attacking trans kids, there are real cases of abuse that are going unpunished. Because Greg Abbott decided to create us headlines by stopping trucks, real businesses, real companies, real people are being impacted by these shortages

because of the traffic and food rotting in trucks and the supply chain. Because they scapegoat voter fraud and do it all across the country, a random person will be arrested because they had court fees outstanding Because they scapegoat voter fraud and do it all across the country, a random person will be arrested because they had court fees outstanding in some district and they had no idea. And so they get wound up in this fucking ridiculous process of being told they're the problem, they're the voter fraud.

And so I think talking about the fact that A, this is a distraction from their agenda, and B, they're causing real harm to people because these are completely false and misleading attacks because they actually don't care about the consequences of their actions is the thing that is just what I would be talking about. We've talked a lot about these culture issues. Tommy, before we move on, I believe there's one more critical issue that you wanted to raise. Yeah, look, I just think there's culture wars, and then there's culture wars. Some people are doing it kind of half-assed, and some people are doing it right, and I just think we need to be mindful of the attacks that we should be worried about, and that are going to land, and that we need to think like extra hard about, like how to prepare

for it. So we have a clip of that for you. Disney has for the longest time been a children entertainment institution this is a gift card taken last week at a target store what do you see what do you see in that what do you see in that what do you see do you see many in a dress or do you see Mickey holding a penis? The people at Disney are pedophiles. The people at Disney are pushing a satanic, godless, child, predatory perspective. Okay, stop. For those of you at home, for those of you at home, what he thinks he sees in a picture of Mickey and Minnie Mouse is Mickey holding a big blue cock.

Now, when I saw this, doing a little research for a YouTube show I do called Tommy Gets Red Pilled, I was just going deep on YouTube. What did you Google? You don't want to know. Tommy was in an incognito window. That's all I'm saying.

I had the VPN ripping. I thought that this guy was just like a fucking podcaster, Charlie Kirk. This guy's running for Senate, I think. This guy's running for a real office. What? Yeah. That guy's running for Senate? I kind of saw a penis.

I did, too. Oh, I thought that was the point. I definitely saw a penis. For people listening at home, I'm pretty sure it's a penis. They got me. They got me. So that's what Disney's up against. All right. So anyway,

I don't know. There's no segue from that, guys. There's no segue. There rarely is from a giant blue penis. Before we move on, it's important for all of us to remember that no matter how Democratic campaigns choose to handle these issues, we all have a role to play here. And I hope that these last two segments have really crystallized what the stakes are in 2022. Obviously, this is going to be a tough year. And there are a lot of factors that we cannot control. But our team at Vote Save America is focused, as usual, on what we can control.

So if all of you go to votesaveamerica.com slash midterms, you can sign up to get connected with actions that you can take right now. We will host events where we lay out midterm strategy. We will help train you to become organizers. You can pick a region of the country to focus on for the midterms. We have the East, Midwest, South, and West. We are trying to get 40,000 signups by the end of May in order to be ready for November. And each one of us is coaching a region so we can make this needlessly competitive and talk a lot of shit to each other. So everyone, please go to votesaveamerica.com slash midterms and sign up as soon as you can. to votesaveamerica.com slash midterms and sign up as soon as you can.

All right. Please welcome to the stage a good friend of the pod, a really good friend of ours before there ever was a pod, White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki. Hi, guys. Hello. Hello. Hello. You have some fans. That may be my team.

I gave them like $100 each to cheer aloud. So there they are. Some of them are single and ready to mingle i'm happy to talk about it after the show um it's great to be here thank you this is like as we always predicted back in the obama campaign this is how it would end yeah no this is exactly the white house press secretary we're doing a podcast right when we were on a bus eating like jello molds and rolls of turkey and things. Exactly where we thought we would be. This is it.

All right, so I want to start with something that feels a bit newsy. Earlier today, after reports that you guys are considering sending a senior official to Ukraine, a reporter asked the president if he's ready to go to Ukraine himself. And I was watching this clip and then he just said yeah I was like oh oh okay um is is sending the president to Ukraine something that that you guys have like talked about I know there's no plan like is it something that you guys are discussing no okay no so he's ready he's just not like he is ready he's ready, he's just not like... He is ready. He's ready for anything.

The man likes a fast car, some aviators, he's ready to go to Ukraine. It's true, he does. We are not sending the president to Ukraine. What I will tell you is that what Boris Johnson did is he took, I believe, an eight-hour train through a war zone to get to the middle of Ukraine. So no, that is not in the plans for the president of the United States. We should all be maybe relieved about that. He's got a few other things to do.

I was going to say thank you. Yes, you're welcome. You're welcome, America. We need him to do a lot of things. You know what, Jen? My follow-up question was going to be like, all right, we all know what the risks of that would be. Like, what are the rewards?

John, you are undervaluing optics? Yeah, I was going to say, it's like, yeah, we're not going to risk the president for optics. Okay, good. Every poll, which are always correct, tells us that inflation is the top of every voter's mind. This is something you guys have been navigating for a long time. What tools do you guys have or things that you're thinking about doing that can help in the next coming months to help relieve some of the pressure that American families are feeling? Sure. I mean, one of the biggest impacts on inflation and one of the biggest reasons why it's rising is energy prices. No shit, right?

Anybody who goes and puts gas in their car, you know. But if you look at the data that came out earlier this week, it's about 70% of the top line impact. So one of the things we're trying to do is take steps to lower gas prices to have a huge impact in that way. We are also working on the supply chain because if you can get more goods through, this is kind of obvious, and get them on the shelves, then the prices will lower. We're also though, we're still trying to push for getting a bill passed that will lower child care, health care, exactly, things that impact elder care, people's lives. I will say, I know you guys talk about politics a little bit here. I'm going to be careful here because I don't want the Hatch Act police to, like, arrest me outside of the

anthem, but... The most seriously enforced law in the government. Yes. A sternly worded press release may be coming my way. But what I will say is that what Democrats could do better, all of us, I am a Democrat. I am working in the White House. I realize I have a megaphone for this. She's talking to us, John. Yeah.

Well, you guys too. The Republicans have no plan for this, no plan to address inflation. We all agree it's a huge problem. It's the number one issue in polls. Everyone thinks costs are too high. Costs are too high. And oftentimes, we get a little cannibalistic about what our own plans are and whether they're good enough or whether we're passing them fast enough or what have you. And really, if you look at the other side, there's nothing in the cupboard. They have zero plan. We all agree inflation's a problem. They have no plan to address it. We could be saying that more, and I think it would help.

It's a fair point. Yeah, no, that's right. Well, I mean, so to do that, to pass that bill, obviously, you know, we have no Republicans that will give us any help on that at all. We do have to get all the Democrats in line. I won't go beyond that. We've all been down that cul-de-sac before. But one thing, you know, we had Ron Klain on Pots of America a couple of months ago and I asked about student debt relief. debt relief. And he said, we'll either make a decision on that in May, or if we extend the moratorium, then at least we'll make a decision on it before the moratorium ends. So you guys extended the moratorium until I believe August 31st. Yes. So is the president taking executive action to cancel some level of student debt still on the table? And like, when is that going to?

Yes, still on the table, still on the table. So just to play out what Ron Klain was talking about. So as you said, it ends August 31st. We have to then decide whether it's extended. And what you look at is, even though the economy is very strong, we created more jobs last year than any year in history. Even though that's the case, we know, as we've been talking about, costs are too high.

And certainly not having to pay back student loans. Nobody's had to pay a dollar, a cent, anything in student loans since Joe Biden's been president. And if that can help people ease the burden of costs in other parts of their lives. That's an important thing to consider. That's a big part of the consideration. So between now and August 31st, it's either going to be extended or we're going to make a decision, as Ron referenced, about canceling student debt. Now, it is also true that the president's preference has been from the beginning legislative action and a bill. You know why? Because bills are more permanent.

And Congress could send him a bill, $10,000 in canceling student debt, sign it tomorrow, you can all come, you're invited to the South Lawn, we'll sign it, we'll celebrate, we'll have drinks with the money we save. So that's another option. But we'll consider it before the end of August.

Well, yeah, and so people know, that's not passing the buck to Congress, that's ensuring that if there to Congress. That's ensuring that if there's legislation to cancel student debt, it would be more solid and lasting than if Biden does it by executive action, which I'm sure he might. And then, of course, the courts could do what the courts might do. The courts, and God forbid, there's a Republican in the White House one day. I mean, they can overturn these things. This is the thing with executive actions. You can go back and forth and overturn them. And obviously we want something in any of these cases where it's

more permanent. I wanted to ask, you know, you heard our conversation about politics and the midterms. I will ask you this in your personal capacity as a Democrat. Okay. You heard the quote in that vice story that I asked asked dan about which is you know we have all these cultural war attacks and um and some democrats said well you know we should talk about kitchen table issues and we should sort of ignore these how do you think about sort of like a democratic midterm message balancing and you are a message guru like balancing like i worked for dan for many years. This is the secret.

I always knew I'd end up working for you. We see you at the podium now. Balancing a few things. What you guys have accomplished, what is left to be accomplished, what the Republicans won't do, and also these attacks that are coming in on all of these cultural issues.

Yeah. Okay, so I think you can sum up what we should be doing in like a very simple phrase that Joe Biden uses, So these attacks that are coming in on all of these cultural issues. Yeah. Okay. So I think you can sum up what we should be doing in like a very simple phrase that Joe Biden uses, but other people use a lot as well, which is don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. And I kind of touched on this a little bit, but in any of those categories, that's what we need to be doing more of. Every election is a choice. You are choosing between two options. You are choosing between two visions of what the country should look like, what we should be fighting for. I do think, look, one thing on the Republican and their side,

there are some people, and maybe many, and maybe I'm just being overly optimistic, who actually believe we should be doing horrible things and targeting transgender kids. I don't like to think about those people. I don't want to be their friend. But there are also a fair number of them who don't want to talk about inflation, the economy, COVID, any of these issues, because they have no plan and they have nothing to say. And they're like, you know what we should do? We don't know what to do about costs or COVID. Guess what? Let's target transgender kids. And that's a reality as well. And so I actually think we can talk about all of these things. And what we really need to be mindful of is always comparing with what the other option is

and what the alternative is. I would like to state that we have, all of us have been friends for 15 years at least. We've worked together for many years. Longer, longer. I mean, it's because we're like 29, so. That's right. Since we were, we've been friends since we were seven. Since high school. Jen and I met in 2003.

Actually, just a sidebar for a second here, because when we met, the Carrie campaign, everybody was fired from the Carrie campaign or quit. You often say you quit when people are fired, just as like a little secret. But everybody was fired. And we were like 23. I was in Iowa. John was in D.C. And it was like, so, is anybody still working there?

What should we do now in the campaign? I found out Robert Gibbs, one of your predecessors at the White House as a press secretary, he was my boss. I was his assistant. And a couple of people got fired. He quit the campaign.

And he told me, I'm going out for lunch. And I was like, okay, cool. And then I get a call from a CNN reporter. And they're like, can you confirm that Robert Gibbs just quit the Kerry campaign? And I was like okay cool and then I get I get a call from a CNN reporter and they're like can you confirm that Robert Gibbs just quit the Kerry campaign and I was like he told me he just went out for lunch and then Jen called me from Iowa and she's like uh what's happening there are you the only one left in the press office that can help us out in Iowa and I was like

unfortunately yes yeah it's true it was a long. I take us on that tour down memory lane. Just to say that it feels absurd that we were asking you news questions like we're fucking second-rate Chuck Todds up here. Well, we felt like we had to do it. You're the White House press secretary. No, no, please, please. You are the spokesperson for the United States government. I'm hoping we can talk about arson and Republicans.

I wanted to, and then Lovett took it in a really bad direction. You need a chart to get to the bottom of that metaphor. Mickey and Minnie off the table. Lots of things that I wanted to talk about. Does Joe Biden have a plan for that Mickey thing? But, anywho, we have to ask, and we will keep it between us. And these people, every one of whom

is incredibly trustworthy, and does not have access to social media, so it's fine. How much longer can we expect to see you at the podium? Well, I will not be there forever. That is what I can confirm. Oh, a professional spokesperson, I see. You know, I'm not trying to be talking pointy and saying this is the best job I've ever had.

It's amazing in so many ways. Second best job. Second best. Obviously, working for Dan was the number one where I would like supply Dan with, what were those candies? It was like Starburst. There was another kind. I don't remember the ones you like.

Skittles. Skittles. Anyway. What is this, like a Kevin McCarthy, Donald Trump relationship? Yeah. It's really, it's really. I mean, it's on bat. I learned a lotittles. Anyway. What is this, like a Kevin McCarthy, Donald Trump relationship? Yeah. It's really, it's really. I mean, it's on bat. I learned a lot from Dan.

Okay. Anyway, but, and especially in this moment, it's been really this amazing honor because when I came into this job, you know, one of the conversations I had with the president and Dr. Biden, the first lady who's, yes. Thank you. She is a boss. She's amazing. And we've had this conversation. And a big part of it was kind of bringing some stability and calm and returning facts. I know. Go figure. And substance to the briefing room. And following Trump in a crazy way has been this huge honor because it's like trying to play a small role in stabilizing or easing the nerves,

healing the nerves of the public in a little bit, in a small way. But I talked early on about staying for a year. I've obviously stayed longer than a year. My son, who's three, still thinks I work at the Honda dealership. He loves cars. So that's cool. My daughter, who's six and like a little more advanced. The other day, she actually said to me, Mom, did you know there's never been a woman president? I said, I am tracking. I'm true. I said, Hillary Clinton came very close. There's a lot to discuss there. We'll do it later. You know? And then I said, but there came very close. There's a lot to discuss there. We'll do it later. And then I said, but there's a girl vice president. It's awesome, right? So there's a girl.

I mean, girl, you know, she's six. So girl speaker of the house. And she goes, is that you? Are you the speaker of the house? I was like, no. No, I'm not. So anyway, point is, I won't be there forever. If I didn't have two kids who are my most important people, you guys have kids.

You know how it is. I would be there forever. But didn't have two kids for my most important people you guys have kids you know how it is I would be there forever but I need to spend time with them I love them I don't want to miss stuff with them so I don't know I don't have a date or anything like that but at some point I will be watching from somewhere else I would just say that when you got the job there was no question

in our mind that you were the best qualified person on the planet for that job. And you've done it, and you've done it with all due respect to our other friends who've had the job. You've done it better than anyone else. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. And I know people aren't going to believe that because we're friends with you and we're biased, but it's true.

I mean, just track the Socky Bomb hashtags on Twitter. Hashtag Socky Bomb. Josh Earnest, do you hear that? Robert Gibbs? Just kidding. Just kidding. They're our friends and they're amazing. Hypothetically, if you were to leave, what kind of hypothetical advice would you give to your hypothetical successor?

Oh, hypothetically. Okay. A couple of things. One is that, I mean, I came into this job thinking this, but I think it's true even more now. We don't have to underestimate the intelligence of the American people. People are not stupid. We do not need to talk in a way that is like everybody's in kindergarten. People pay attention. We need to make things accessible. That's also true. I believe the best people who are communicators or spokespeople are ones who are also deeply knowledgeable about the issues they're going to talk about. It's not about reading talking points. This is what I would say to any successor. It's not about reading talking

points. You're not like a weather girl. No offense to weather girls. They're great. They tell me the weather, but like it's, it's about being able to answer the ninth question, right. And being able to talk about things. And I would say, I know a number of my amazing team members are here, but I'm a little relentless at times because I want to know how to explain what a javelin, the weapon is so that people can know what it is, right. You want to know how to explain is COVID a problem? the weapon is so that people can know what it is right yeah you want to know how to explain is covet a problem it's covered not a problem so i'd say that's the second thing the third thing which i have learned the hard way and this is the truth if anybody ever hasn't been in the briefing room come to the briefing room whatever it's small and um there are reporters staring at you the entire time even when they're not asking you questions

sometimes and actually the asl interpreter, like the sign language, American Sign Language interpreter said this in a TV interview the other day. They're very repetitive. These questions are very repetitive. They ask her the same question over and over again. And you have to remember, you're not at a dinner party or you're not at a bar, right? So you're not just saying to your friend, listen, I've answered your question nine times, right? You have to continue to provide the same context and information because in the age of social media and Twitter, otherwise, even the best meaning and well-meaning reporters will take one thing you said and make you seem like you're Satan reincarnated. That kind of cynicism has no place here. I know. There's a lot we can talk about at Twitter, all these things. But those would be my three pieces.

And, you know, the last thing I would say is the best thing you can do is know what the president's thinking. I mean, that's ultimately your job is to speak on his behalf, not on your behalf. You're speaking on his behalf with the administration things. If you don't know, you don't know, and you say you don't know, then you call up someone who knows and you go give them the answer. And it doesn't have to be a gotcha situation that was like five pieces of advice so i don't know right exit memo right here there you go it's right it's right okay before we go yeah i have to ask you a question okay because we have to talk about Okay. Okay. Is he a stupid son of a bitch? Or does he play a stupid son of a bitch on TV?

Okay. Well, he works for a network. Okay. That provides people with questions that nothing personal to any individual, including Peter Doocy, but might make anyone sound like a stupid son of a bitch.

Well handled. Can I tell, I don't know if this is not going to be popular in this crowd, but can I tell a nice Peter Doocy story? I mean, come on. Well, here's the thing. The president did call him a stupid son of a bitch, right?

So that happened and it was like... Not in the talking points? It was like, oh, okay, that happened. So what do you do about it? The president called him. He's talked about this a little bit. The president called him and apologized, what have you. So he went on TV that night and I actually watched Sean Hannity to see what he said.

My mind was like really bending and hurting. I mean, there was, if you can imagine, it was like flames, and it was like crime, crime, crime. And Kamala, the vice president's like walking through the flames and crime. I don't even know what was happening. walking through the flames and crime. I don't even know what was happening. But Sean Hannity asked him about the, you know, what the president had said and what he said back. And he could have been like, he's a son of a bitch or I'm standing up for whatever. He could have said anything. And instead he said, you know, he called me. We had a really nice conversation. I'm just asking my questions. He's doing his job. So I will say that was a

moment of grace. You don't have to like everything Peter Doocy says or does, but that is certainly a moment of grace by Peter Doocy. This is why before you were the world famous press secretary, everyone called Jen Psaki the nicest person in Washington. I hate the word nice. I do appreciate, I know, isn't like it's the word, like anything is better than nice. I didn't make it up. I'm just saying what people say. No, no, I know. It's a lovely compliment. Thank you, Dan. I appreciate it. And you have been a brilliant press secretary and public servant. And when we come back, Jen has graciously agreed to stay for a game, and Mike Birbiglia is going to join us as well.

And we're back! Jen, you're a pro. And because we've worked together, you know that I am not. So now it's time for a game. To help us play tonight, please welcome the incredibly funny comedian, Mike Verviglia. Thanks. Hey.

Hi, Mike. Wow, hey. Hi, hi, hi. Welcome, welcome. Thanks for coming. This is really, it's like you're having the Beatles, Jen Psaki, and now Steely Dan. No, now those monkeys.

Here they are. Those monkeys. They went after the Beatles. Thanks for joining us, Mike. Oh, thanks. I'm so glad, by the way, for just the listeners at home, that you were able to gather 3,000 undecided voters. We're going to get them. We're going to get them.

We're going to make our case yeah none of them are vaccinated so 3 000 unvaccinated swing voters in dc of all places hard to find hard to find so mike uh how are you with on the spot questions? Woo. Uh, I'm not as good as Jen is. Uh, Jen is, I mean, I don't know many comedians who could deal with hecklers as well as Jen does. And if she does leave politics,

you always will have a job at go bananas in Cincinnati or Uncle Funny's in Fort Lauderdale. I mean, these are real career options for you. Thank you. It's a good backup plan, something to think about. Something to think about, a switch. So Jen, speaking of hecklers, what would you say is the weirdest question you've gotten in your time in the briefing room?

There are many, but the weirdest question, I think, that sticks with me and sticks with the members of the press team is, will you commit to us today not to euthanize the president's dog? What? Yes. Will you commit that you will not kill the president's dog? Yes, I will commit not to kill the president's dog. No matter how many people he attacks.

Right. We'll sweep him under the rug. Who asked that? Who asked that question? You think Doug had COVID? No, no. He was attacked. I'm so sorry.

We'll cut this. No, we'll leave it in. Jen. The job of press secretary is one of the most public and challenging roles in politics. Every day, the White House press secretary faces tough questions from journalists and Peter Doocy. But who... And you know what? I was backstage, and I heard the nice words.

I'm still doing what's on the card. But who could replace Jen Psaki? Who could fill these shoes? Tonight, we're going to figure it out in a game we're calling As the President Has Long Said. Hold on. I'm supposed to do some vamping.

The vamping has begun. Mike, what brings you to our nation's capital? I'm here at the Warner Theater Friday and Saturday night. Friday and Saturday night at the Warner Theater? I'm doing a show that I wrote called The Old Man and the Pool. That's exciting.

Go see Mike. I have some breaking news for everybody. And Jen, thank you for being willing to do this on stage. I think it's pretty unorthodox. Very. I can say that right now we know that the next press secretary is one of two candidates. One is Tommy Vitor, celebrated podcast host and a former spokesman for the National Security Council who spent a decade on Capitol Hill and in the White House. Thank you.

I'm just standing up because it feels right. This is my fucking podium, buddy. And the other candidate is Mike Birbiglia, a comedian with absolutely no experience whatsoever who famously jumped through a second story window while sleepwalking and now has to sleep wearing oven mitts so he can't, technically speaking, get out. Thank you so much. Gentlemen, we're going to need both of you to answer each question, and at the end, Jen and I will declare a winner who the next White House has legally agreed to make the press secretary. It's like America's Got Talent, but you wouldn't know it from this press pool. Tommy and Mike, are you both ready? Yeah, I think so.

I feel good. Yeah. All right, let's do this. All right, here we go. I'll kick it off. Tommy, what does President Biden say to critics who claim he isn't doing enough to bring down the cost of health care in this country? John, thank you. That's such an important question. I would keep in mind that the American Rescue Plan did more to lower costs and expand access to health care than anything since the passage of

the Affordable Care Act, with families saving an average of $2,400 on their annual premiums. A big fucking deal, as one might say. President Biden also fixed the family glitch by executive order. And unlike the family glitch that produced Don and Eric, this is a problem we can solve. Thank you. Wow. Okay. Okay. Thank you, Tommy. Mike, same question to you. Oh, well,

I think Tommy covered most of what I was going to say. But I'll say this. A few years ago I went for my annual checkup. Which I always dread because I have a lot of pre-existing conditions, which I call conditions because everything is existing, if it does. And everything is pre, unless it happened on the way to the appointment. And when I see that checklist of pre-existing conditions, I circle the whole thing and I cross out pregnant. So the doctor asked me to do the pulmonary test, where you blow into a tube and there's a ball in it that simulates blowing out a candle, which is why I call it the birthday cake test

because it basically tells you how many birthdays you have left. So I did it. I go, whew. And the doctor said, go ahead and do it. And I said, I did. And he goes, do it again. So I gave it a little more. Whew. And I said, I did. And he goes, do it again. So I gave it a little more.

And he goes, I don't know what to tell you, Mike. If I was going by this machine right here, I would say you're having a heart attack right now. And I said, if I were having a heart attack, I would come here. And I would ask you, so am I having a heart attack? He said, I don't think so. I said, I'm going to need a more concrete answer than that. He said, I'm going to send you across town to a cardiologist for a second opinion. I don't enjoy the term second opinion. I was under the impression this first analysis was fact-based. I didn't know we were taking swings in the dark.

If I knew it were opinion time, I'd point out I don't enjoy sitting on paper. It makes me feel like a chicken. And I feel like you could digitize some of those forms in the waiting room. I feel like I filled a few of those out before. of those forms in the waiting room. I feel like I filled a few of those out before. In closing, what was the question?

Wow, I gotta say, Jen. That was unorthodox. And good, I thought. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Interesting approach.

Tommy, President Biden recently extended the pause on federal student loan repayments for a third time, this time through August 31st. Is the president worried about a backlash if he ultimately decides to cancel a portion of student debt held by young people today? I'm not the fucking president. Thank you for that question, Ms. Ducey. Just kidding. Yes. Ducey. Just kidding. Yes. That got weird. It goes with the bit.

Yes, Peter. The president is terrified about this. Nothing frightens him more than the possibility that he will be celebrated by Gen Z, like some kind of silent generation Jojo Siwa. by Gen Z, like some kind of silent generation Jojo Siwa. Joe Biden would hate to be featured in millions of TikToks as the president who simps for financial freedom. No cap. You're right, that's what keeps him up at night.

Wow. Wow. Mike, same question for you. Apparently Tommy got a hold of my notes backstage. That was pretty much my answer. Wow, okay. But additionally, I'll say this. Yep, yeah. Working the podium a little bit.

Is that how you do it? Yeah, it's great. Additionally, I'll say I went to school, you know, at Georgetown down the street here. And I had to take a science requirement. I took a computer science class and it was way over my head. And after the first class, I was like, I'm not going to go to this anymore. So I went to the class before the final to find out what would be on the final. The question was about student loans. Yep. Thank you so much for repeating it.

Jen, I know how you feel where they repeat the question after you're already doing the answer. We're all in the same boat. You know, we're all just doing the same thing up here. So I'm taking this computer science class, and I show up to the class before the final to find out what would be on the final. And the guy sitting next to me says, do you think we'll get back the final? And I was like, oh no, we took the final. And I ran to the computer science department, and there's my professor. And I said, sir, I didn't know his name. true story I go I'm in your class I misunderstood the syllabus I missed the final he didn't even look at me looked at the floor he goes you get the worst grade and I go I get a zero and he goes you get the grade that the person who did the worst on the test got on the test. And I thought that's great news because that's what I would have gotten if I had taken the test. Well, it turns out

the person who did the worst on the test passed the test. So I passed the test and I passed the class and I am proud to be an American. Which is all to say I shouldn't have to pay for that. Once again. That was a really it was a really strong end. I like the America part at the end.

I think what's amazing about it is I think what's amazing about it is look I think obviously Tommy is bringing a lot of technical skill to this. What the fuck? But as we saw in the Olympics, it's not just about technical skill. It's about artistry. It's about creativity. Personal stories. And I'm not saying Tommy,

you're doing, no one's saying you're not doing better, but we are saying that Mike's doing something different. Hey, stick with it, buddy. I think you're doing a good job. You're doing fine, Tommy. You're doing fine, Tommy. You're doing fine. Hurts my feelings.

Okay, Tommy, this is another shot for you. Tommy, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell was unable to articulate, I know, any, but that's not professional. Keep it clean, Tommy. Any moral red lines during a recent Axios interview and said he would support Trump as the Republican nominee, no matter what. What is President Biden's response to this? Does the president have any moral red lines? Does Joe Biden have moral red lines? That's the question. Yeah, of course he does. You know how I know? Because no one's ever asked him that fucking question. You know, you only ask a guy if he has moral red lines when you know he's a fucking sociopath.

Joe Biden is surrounded by moral red lines. He's like Catherine Zeta-Jones in that movie from the 90s with Sean Connery. Entrapment, yep. Thank you, Mike. He is pretty good. You have to keep your word. You have to treat people with respect. Joe Biden always puts the toilet seat down. Joe Biden wipes down equipment at the gym that he did not even use. Joe Biden texts you back and he finds the perfect emoji to put a button on that combo. The point is, Joe Biden thinks Mitch McConnell, he thinks of him as a colleague and a friend who is evil and who he hates.

Wow. That's a good answer. That was actually, that was pretty good. Even for Tommy. That was good. Even for Tommy. Brought a little spirit to that one. A little spirit to it. He's sort of rising. He's rising to Mike's level. Same question for you, Mike. What is President Biden's reaction to McConnell saying he will endorse Trump no matter what? When I was in high school, I joined the wrestling team, which was a huge mistake, my teammates explained to me. Because wrestling practice wasn't like soccer practice where you could sort of blend in. You had to wrestle, or in my case, be wrestled upon

by these young, muscly gentlemen whose crotches would inevitably be pressed up against my face as though they were doing a victory dance. All the while, I'm wearing a women's bathing suit called a singlet, but I was building character, and that character was a lifeguard from the 1920s. Of course, I wasn't strong enough to compete on behalf of the organization, but I would travel with the team. If there was time permitting, they'd send us B-teamers out to wrestle their B-teamers. And when they did this, I developed a strategy to be pinned as quickly as possible

so this portion of my life would be over. The strategy ran into a snag when I encountered an opponent who had the same strategy. So we're out there for a while. We're flashing each other looks with our eyes, like, you can pin me, you know. Here's my knee, here's my head, you know. It was a stalemate. But at one point I found myself pinning this guy. I don't even know how. My teammates were shocked. They cleared the bench. They go, Mike, squeeze! And I squeezed. And all of a sudden there's blood all over the mat. I know.

I thought, I killed this guy. I'm going to be on the run from the law for the rest of my life. For Bigley the wrestling bandit. One pin, one kill. I realize it's my own blood. Streaming out of my nose onto the mat based on no physical injury whatsoever, just from the sheer nervousness of possibly winning anything at all. Ref blows the whistle. He goes, blood on the mat.

They plug my nose. They go, Mike, get back out there. Do what you just did. I had no idea what I had just done. I get back out there, and I'm pinned immediately, and I would be the closest I would ever come what I had just done. I get back out there and I'm pinned immediately and that would be the closest I would ever come to winning a wrestling match for the rest of my life. So I've never won a

wrestling match, but what I do have is character. And you know who doesn't have character? Mitch McConnell. Thank you very much. Wow. I gotta say. I gotta say. Look, I am shocked. Look, obviously we came into this. You and I talked backstage. We thought there's no, I mean,

obviously Tommy's a seasoned pro. There was no chance. I play high school sports. You sure you did. The, the point is, the point is Mike is doing things at this podium. We haven't seen this. I mean, not since the days of DD Myers, have we seen this level? The physicality of D.D. Myers. This isn't figure skating. Tommy, don't be upset. You're doing your best. Mike, a storyteller. A storyteller up there. What is politics if not telling stories? Storytelling.

Storytelling. And physically moving and talking about life. And physically moving and talking. Tommy, final question for you. Sure. Name five cabinet members. Secretary of State, Tony Blinken. Some Tony stans in the house. Secretary of Treasury, Janet Yellen. Secretary of Defense,

Lloyd Austin. Attorney General, Merrick Gardland. Pick up the pace, buddy. Interior Secretary, Deb Haaland. Secretary of Commerce, Gina Raimondo. Oh, I'm so sorry. I accidentally named six. Wow. Okay. Same question for you. I'll give you a hint. There's 17 more options. So it's easy. Go for it. Look, I could name all 500 cabinet members. We all could, right? We're all on the same page about all their names. What is this, a quiz? I mean, any of us could talk about anything that we know about or love. I could talk about pizza for 15 minutes. I love pizza. I love pizza so much I get excited when I see the word plaza. Because the word pizza itself is exciting.

It's got pizza in it. Each of the Z's has two slices. The A is a slice. It's five slices in one word, which is a literary device I invented called onomatopizza. Wow. Here's the thing. So obviously, we have a lot of information,

Jen. It's time for us to make our decision. Two incredible candidates. Obviously, Tommy came into this as the frontrunner. He has a lot of actually spokesperson experience. He actually has a lot of actually spokesperson experience and substantive knowledge and you can't discount that it's a quality

it's a quality, a factor Tommy, we're not saying it's not a factor it's a, yeah it's not me, it's you and he's not bad to look at, Tommy look at that, look at these guns now they're just I mean I'm just trying to butter at these guns. Now they're just...

I mean, I'm just trying to butter them up because I think we know what we have to do, unfortunately. I think we do. We need something fresh and new. Something unexpected. Something that the political press won't be able to... They'll be caught on their heels. Something physical.

Someone who will move around the room. Someone who will shake things up. Shake the Washington game up. You know, flip the board. Catan pieces everywhere. I think it's time. Jen, I think it's time to announce. It's time to announce.

You should do it. The next White House press secretary. It's Mike Birbiglia. Mike! Oh, yes! So sorry, Tommy. We have a winner. And you can see Mike Birbiglia, our next White House press secretary,

at Warner Theatre Friday and Saturday of this week. And at his new show, The Old Man in the Pool at Chicago's Seven Wolf Theatre in May or at the Mark Taper Forum in August in Los Angeles. Mike Birbiglia, thank you so much. Thank you. Jen Psaki, thank you so much. Tommy. Rigged.

That was rigged. That's our show for tonight. A big thanks to Jane Koston for co-hosting. Simone Sanders was supposed to be here. She couldn't be here, but we are going to get her on a show in the future. So we're excited about that. Thank you to Jen Psaki. Thank you to Mike Rabiglia.

VoteSaveAmerica.com slash midterms. Go there now. Sign up. Have a good night, everyone. Thank you so much. Good night, everybody. Bye, everybody. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.

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