Pod Save America - “Beat the Press.”

Episode Date: March 15, 2021

Joe Biden announces vaccines for all by May 1st and Donald Trump wants credit, Tan Suit journalism returns as some political reporters work hard to generate Biden controversies, Andrew Cuomo faces more calls to resign, and progressives are concerned about some of the President’s foreign policy decisions during his first fifty days in office.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/podsaveamerica. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include which podcast you would like.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's pod, Joe Biden announces vaccines for all by May 1st, and Donald Trump wants the credit. The return of tan suit journalism and why progressives are concerned about some of the president's foreign policy decisions during his first 50 days in office. Before we start, Lovett, tell us about this weekend's show. Great, Lovett, or leave it. It was a very funny episode. I had a great conversation with Ed Markey. Ira joined to play Pepe Le Pew. It went very well. James Adomian doing Bernie and the My Pillow Guy.

I basically left and just let him talk to himself for a while. It was so funny. That was the best Bernie Sanders impression I've ever heard from anyone. I was laughing so hard during that segment. It's very, very good. Just check it out. Also, don't forget, incredible segment it's very very good just check it out um also don't forget cricket's new sports podcast take line premieres this tuesday it's smart funny thoughtful so good uh it's hosted by emmy winner jason concepcion and wnba champion turned team owner renee montgomery who talked through all the ways that sports culture and politics intersect on and off the court take line's first guest is jeremy lynn which is pretty cool uh subscribe to take line on apple podcast spotify or wherever you get your podcasts how

great is that guys that's awesome that's a that is just a perfect get for them for the first for the first episode sorry next fans i can't wait finally what better way to make it clear that you support voting rights and abolishing the filibuster than by wearing it on your brand new crooked merch? There are new t-shirts with phrases like organizing works, abolish the filibuster, make democracy easier and more. I'll definitely be wearing an abolish the filibuster t-shirt everywhere. You are an abolish the filibuster t-shirt. These t-shirts are perfect for making your re-entrance into the world. Check them out now at cricket.com slash store.

All right, let's get to the news. So, President Biden marked the one-year anniversary of the pandemic with his first primetime address on Thursday evening. We had heard that there would be some pretty big news in the speech, and the president certainly delivered. Tonight, I'm announcing that I will direct all states, tribes and territories to make all adults, people 18 and over, eligible to be vaccinated no later than May 1. President then followed up with this. Nice. You guys think the air horn was overkill there or no

i thought that was uh i thought that was pretty great i think the problem is it spooked major and bit another bit another agent uh that's pretty big may 1st anyone who wants one can get one now he did say that you um it's not like everyone will get one but the eligibility um the prioritization groups are now everyone as of may 1st which i think is uh is pretty exciting yeah i think it's great i think everybody should get vaccinated as soon as possible so that uh when i go to a las vegas buffet in like late, late June. It's cool. Well said. He also said there was a good chance that by July 4th, we'll be able to have small gatherings. He said it doesn't mean large events with lots of people together, but small groups.

Like considering that we just passed 100 million, we just passed 100 million shots twice as fast as the White House said we would. Do you think this is like another example of them sort of under promising over delivering? Because if I'm getting if people are getting vaccinated or in May, then on July 4th, everyone else is vaccinated. I'm hanging out with hanging out in close quarters. Joe Biden, I love you. Thank you for all the work you've done to speed up this vaccination rollout. Get the fuck out of here with your small outdoor barbecues on July 4th. Nonsense. We are doing whatever we want once we're once we're vaccinated. Like you could have had a small outdoor barbecue last July 4th, right? Like outdoor activity is safe. We I really I get

the like caution. I get why the CDC is warning against sort of non-essential travel at this point, even for vaccinated people. But at some point, I think we need to paint a little bit more of a picture of normalcy and not try to set a bar that we can leap over. Yeah, but I don't actually think that's true. I think that they've done that along the way, but I think that you just start doing the math and you're like, okay, if everyone is eligible by May 1st, and let's say it took six to eight weeks to get everybody there first, and then another three to four weeks to get a second shot for people that are getting Pfizer and Moderna. And then you have a two week window in which it takes to have the immunity that the CDC says you need in order to do all these things. You start to see that July 4th for huge parts of

the country is pushing that deadline, which I think is all they're really getting at. I don't think they're saying you can't have a barbecue with everybody in August. I think they're just being realistic about what July means if you care about following the guidance. He's not even saying it's a diktat. He's just saying you would be able to do this safely, which I think is true, though I think people will, as they have it throughout this year-long crisis, not listen. Yeah.

Also, I realize July 4th is a time for outdoor barbecues, but me and a bunch of my family and friends are vaccinated. Indoor hangs only. 2021 indoor hangs. Listen, love it. Love it. That's fair. Like, you know, there is this weird, annoying thing with most of these vaccines

that it takes like four to six weeks until you're fully vaccinated. I just think that outdoor activities have been safe from like day one. Barbecues have been relatively safe unless you have 30 people from different households there and you're all using the same tongs and you're like close talking or whatever. And, you know, it felt like a bit of an underplaying of where we could all be by July 4th, I hope. But basically, my brain has decided that I am now just going to be angry at negative news that I don't like because there's so much COVID fear porn online and overemphasize all the good things that I'm excited about. Yeah, I mean, I do think it sucks that like Joe Biden has to take on the role of responsible parent who's like, don't climb that fence, totally wash your hands. And then like Fox News is like

weekend uncle that's letting everybody try a beer, you know, and't climb that fence, wash your hands. And then like Fox News is like Weekend Uncle that's letting everybody try a beer, you know? And I think that that sucks. It does. But I don't know a way out of it. Yeah. And look, the CDC, when they put out the guidelines, I think they did a pretty good job

because there is some concern if there's vaccinated people mingling with unvaccinated people, especially unvaccinated people who are very vulnerable, still not positive about, you know, cutting transmission and what if you. Yeah, listen, again, I think I don't want to get yelled out by a bunch of listeners. I'm not I'm not suggesting that anyone do anything irresponsible. I'm not saying go to spring break and like start beer bonging with your unvaccinated friends. I'm

just saying that, like, I think people are smart and they know how to be responsible. They know when they're with high risk people. They know when they're with vaccinated people like we all can just kind of be tommy i will and i will be back i will be beer bonging with my yeah it'll be you and polly sure you know a bunch of gen xers right and look tommy lives his values like i like i i didn't get it but i know that the sex party email he sent out did say you have to bring your vaccination card. You have to drop your card and your keys in the bowl. No invite for me this time, but I'm going to get, you know, just great to have my in-laws here for the last few days. I'm glad they're listeners. I love you guys.

During the speech, Biden didn't mention the name of his predecessor, Donald Trump, though he did criticize the federal government's response in 2020. And he also talked about the steps he's taken over the last 50 days in office to speed up the national vaccination program. This was enough to send Republicans and right wing media into a fit of rage because they think that Biden should have given Trump credit for the vaccines. They even got some real reporters to play along. Let's take a listen to some of these clips. We don't need to go over the 500,000 dead. We had that moment. Let's talk about the future moving forward. Every time he has a chance to praise a previous administration, he not only doesn't praise, he kicks them in the groin. He needs to pick up the phone, I suggest, call Mar-a-Lago and yeah, bring unity to the country as he says he so desperately wants and thank

President Donald Trump. On the development of the vaccines, it was Operation Warp Speed that was invented, executed, initiated under the former president. So in the spirit of bipartisanship and unity last night, as opposed to the first comments, which spoke about the denials in the first days, weeks and months, why don't you say with credit to the previous administration and the former president for putting us in this position, we are glad that we have been able to move it forward. That is an excellent recommendation as a speech writer.

Guys, should we should we all be thanking Donald Trump for saving our lives? Would either of you like to read aloud the statement that NBC's Peter Alexander read to Jen Psaki as an official thank you to Mr. Trump from Pod Save America. No, thanks. Yeah, no, hard pass. I like Peter Alexander a lot. Like, personally, he's a really good reporter, a really good guy. I just think the thing about this Washington debate and so many other Washington debates is who gives a shit? Like, what politician walks around thanking his former rival, the one he just beat in election, especially one as terrible as Donald Trump. I mean, like presidents get blame and credit for things that happen on their watch. And so, yes, I am glad that Trump pre-purchased a bunch of

vaccines. It seems like the obvious move even then at the time, but, you know, good on them, but they didn't invent the science that led to the vaccines being created. Right. They the idea was to pre-purchase vaccines and that would lead to the rapid deployment of the vaccinations once they were ready. But that actually didn't happen. White House. In September of 2020, Mark Meadows said the White House was aiming to have 100 million vaccine doses ready by the end of October of last year and up to 300 million doses ready in January. They missed that goal by the mile. They missed a later goal of 20 million shots in December. So like it's great that they helped get the vaccines developed. But the most important part of that was the distribution. And the Trump team utterly failed on that. And meanwhile, the Biden folks have done some really smart, creative things to increase production. They got Merck to work with Johnson & Johnson to ramp up the production of the J&J vaccine. They've just been competent. They've gotten it

out faster. They've gotten it into people's arms. So you don't get credit for doing half your work. Also, Joe Biden gave them credit for the work that they did. There is that. Back in December, back in January, whenever it was in the winter, he said, yeah, I got to give them some credit for helping to speed the development of the vaccine. That is what they did when it came to distribution. Right. They basically just gave some vaccinations to states and said, all right, go for it. You're on your own. You can do whatever you want now. Yeah. I mean, they dropped it off. They wanted to just sort of drop it off in parking lots. I mean, they didn't really have a plan for how to distribute beyond giving it to the states.

And it created a bunch of bottlenecks that the Biden administration had to come in and fix. I'd also say, too, what has been the greatest contributor, one of the greatest contributors, to the fact that we had this incredible vaccine ready in less than a year, investments in basic science and research that Democrats have fought tooth and nail to protect against antagonism from Republicans, including many of the Republicans demanding fealty to Donald Trump right now for decades. We are very, very fortunate that that basic research was conducted. We are very, very fortunate that that basic research was conducted. Under Barack Obama, the federal government funded a startup that wanted to create an mRNA vaccine.

That startup is called Moderna. I don't see Barack Obama out there demanding his fucking thank you card from Joe Biden. Well, it's funny. It's like it really is that there is this, obviously, there's this hole in our politics that this other person used to fill up. And one of the pieces of coverage that we just lack for now is like the ongoing psychological needs of this one person. And this is a little bit of a return to that. Like, of course, you should thank the previous president. Don't you understand his psychological need? He has a great need to be thanked. Well, it's also like it's another example of the collective amnesia of all of us and especially the press sometimes like some of the very outlets that have been asking the White House these questions, like, why don't you give Trump credit? Headline from these

are headlines from December and January. New York Times, Trump administration passed on the chance to secure more Pfizer vaccine. Remember that? NBC, Trump administration has stopped all transition activities and funding that will slow, if not completely halt, vaccination efforts. We forgot about that. The fucking, there was like a late transition because the president was trying to stage a coup. Yeah, that was bad. You know, I mean, CNBC, Operation Warp Speed at a Crawl. Vaccinating Americans will take 10 years at current pace. So, yeah, like a couple of months ago, everyone was complaining about the Trump administration's vaccination strategy, getting actual shots in arms.

Now, a couple of months later, it's like, why isn't Trump getting a whole bunch of credit? Like, what's fucking wrong with people? One argument in favor of Biden giving Trump some credit on the vaccines, which, of course, he has done in the past, is, you know, some people argue that it might help persuade more vaccine hesitant Trump supporters to take the shot. Love it. Do you think that's worth a few mentions from Biden? Wow, it's quite a bank shot. It's quite a bank shot. You know, we have to figure out how to get, you know, reluctant Republicans to get vaccinated over time. It's important. I think the way, I think there's a number of ways to do that.

You know, I actually interviewed Adam Grant, who's a psychologist about this. And there is actually a lot of research about how you turn people who are against vaccines into people that are willing to get vaccines. It's very little. It's very haranguing. Doesn't work. Telling people that they're bad doesn't work, but actually talking through their concerns and speaking to them under the presumption that they want what's best for themselves and their community is the way you get there. There's actually a lot of like data on the

best way to do this. I don't know how that data is reflected and whether or not Joe Biden needs to pretend to like, you know, that that Donald Trump is the greatest vaccine president to get it done. I do think one thing that would have certainly helped is if Donald Trump sent out a fucking picture with him getting the vaccine, he decided to get it in secret. In fairness to, you know, we are very fortunate that Donald Trump, one of the many positions he could be taking right now is that he thinks the vaccine is a hoax. It's a pure luck thing and his own ego that's preventing that from happening. He's told the many positions he could be taking right now is that he thinks the vaccine is a hoax. It's a pure luck thing and his own ego that's preventing that from happening. He's told the country that he got vaccinated when he did that, you know, two hour thing at whatever you call it, CPAC.

He won't release a picture of it. I actually just think this is going to come down to a lot of Republicans talking to each other. I don't think Joe Biden is the best messenger for these people. Anyone see this? This Frank Luntz focus group. He actually convened a group of vaccine-hesitant Trump voters, and he had convened them all on Zoom. And then he had some Republican politicians delivering messages to them about why they should get vaccines, Kevin McCarthy, a couple others. And then he had Tom Frieden, who ran the CDC for Obama, who just didn't, he didn't talk about his Obama affiliation.

He just said, I'm a medical expert. Here's five facts. You know, the number of doctors who've chosen to get vaccinated is upwards of 90 plus percent, blah, blah, blah. And they were all convinced by Frieden and none of them were convinced by the Republican politicians. And they didn't even think that they wanted to be convinced by Trump because they thought that, like, all politicians are sort of playing politics with the with the vaccine on both sides of the aisle, which is a problem on its own. But it was interesting that just like straight science messages helped persuade these people. Yeah, it does seem like that government involvement in the vaccination effort is one of the biggest impediments to people wanting to get it. And if you just speak to them respectfully, if you provide them information, if they hear about lots of their friends getting the vaccine and not having

problems, I think hopefully this problem will start to work itself out. But yeah, I think Biden politicizing it or, you know, people hectoring others for not wanting to get the vaccine like that, that seems like the worst case scenario to me. Yeah, I do also think one piece of this that's important is it's not just about Republican politicians telling people to get the vaccine. Part of it is the fact that Republican politicians have spent the last year downplaying the virus itself. So simply having Republicans out there saying this is serious and vaccination is what allows us to open up society, I think is actually important, maybe even, you know, one of the most important things that they can do.

Though it was interesting, the one politician that was somewhat effective with the focus group was Chris Christie, because he said, I was skeptical, I got sick, I almost died, I had a couple people I know died. And I realized that sometimes you don't want to trust the government and people play politics. But because of all these personal experiences I've had and because of some of the science that I've heard, I've changed my mind. And like him being persuaded sort of helped them. That's good. So it's interesting. So Biden isn't just getting nagged by reporters over who gets credit for vaccines. The White House press corps has been laser focused lately on what the public wants to know.

Questions like when will Joe Biden let a room full of reporters yell questions at him? Why didn't Joe Biden book any of his staff on the Sunday shows? Who does Joe Biden think he is going home to Delaware for the weekend? These are all these are all real media generated controversies lately. Let's listen to a few more. Just one more. The president has traveled back to Wilmington a couple of times since taking office. The CDC does still urge people not to travel for personal reasons.

Obviously, presidential travel is very different than commercial travel. But should the president be doing more to set an example about personal travel during a pandemic? You promised the White House cat. What happened to that? Where is the cat? Today's a good day for the cat. That's okay. The dogs, immigration and then governor. Another dog's question. Okay, go ahead. Just a quick clarification on the dogs. Can you confirm that it was a Secret Service member who was bitten? And can you also reassure the public that Major Biden will not be euthanized as a result of this? Like, if you really, the briefing isn't your only chance to ask Jen Psaki or the press office a question.

If you desperately need to know whether a dog is getting euthanized, you can send an email, man. That's a crazy thing to ask live. What is wrong with you? Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me. Will the president, can you confirm that the president will not be killing his own dog? Is this like, first of all, the movie Beethoven came out a long time ago.

Our kind of, our feelings about, anyway, but the, the, the man's also striking about that question. This is very silly, but like, I heard that question. I was like, oh, that must be from some kind of right wing outlet. And it did. It was from the Post trying to drum up, make this more serious than it. The New York Post. The New York Post.

New York Post. Not the Washington Post. That right wing rag. Bezos own. But of course, it's a right wing reporter trying to stir that up. But like poor Major's not a democrat poor major is a dog you know i mean the grandkids the i don't it's just a weird weird thing to ask live on tv but it's not i mean so you know has uh has why why do you guys think that uh tan suit journalism

has returned here this is because it's not just the dog you know we talked about uh i mean the the fucking questions about the ap the ap has now ran two stories a couple months apart about joe biden going back to delaware over the weekend and they couch it by saying oh you know the white house is on the defense about this because the president has told people to not uh travel unnecessarily during a pandemic. But Joe Biden, who is, by the way, vaccinated and travels on fucking Air Force One, is somehow a risk or not following his own example by going back to Delaware. Does the AP not have anything better to do? Yeah, that one is bafflingly stupid.

And I find it inexplicable, to be totally honest with you. Well, it's so I feel like it's two things. One's old and one is based on how they covered Trump. I think the part that's based on covering Trump is we did stories about Trump traveling all the time. So now we need to do the same stories for Biden, even though the context is very different. now we need to do the same stories for Biden, even though the context is very different. So there's a lot of kind of performative, performative objectivity, like performative nonpartisanship to kind of cover their bases. And I think one of the challenges, you know, if you want to attack Joe Biden as frequently as you attacked Donald Trump, you have to you have

to really, really, really raise the bar. That is the question is, why do they feel like they have to attack Joe Biden as much as they attack Donald Trump? Why is that journalism that you must strike a balance above all else? I don't think that that's what they feel. I think, look, I think that adversarial journalism is good. They should be hard on Biden. They should ask tough questions. What I think we're starting to see is the fact that Donald Trump was good for the media business and Joe Biden so far maybe isn't. Right. So let's start with the Sunday shows question. Over the weekend, Politico wrote a whole piece about how Joe Biden didn't put someone out on the Sunday shows. And why would you do that if you're trying to sell your covid relief plan? Now, there once was an era when the Sunday shows drove the news, even on Monday. That is just not the case anymore, right?

The Sunday shows today are where you go to ask questions like, who is John Barrasso? Who is Bill Hagerty? Who is Patrick Sullivan? One of those names is a fake senator. Can you guess which one? Hagerty. Nope, that's real.

Patrick Sullivan is made up. There's a Dan Sullivan. I remember when Barrasso showed up. Who does he represent? I remember when Barrasso showed up in the Senate because we were working in the Senate at that time. And I was like, Barrasso, Barrasso. Love it. Don't you remember?

We gave Barack Obama a joke about John Barrasso for the Correspondents' Dinner. We said the joke was something to the effect of who's John Barrasso. Right. That's probably why I remember it. So today, right, the Sunday shows today mostly exist to make Daily Show producer Matt Negrin go insane because Chuck Todd won't ask a question about the fascist mob attack on the Capitol, right? In 2021, though, like the reason this advice was so dumb and bad is because in 2021, not only are the Sunday shows not the best way to reach voters, they almost guarantee you that Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or someone will get an unrelated political question that will then screw up their efforts to make the coverage about the vaccine rollout and all the things they want to talk about. Right. So it's just it's pure self-interest. And I think the press conference question is very similar. You know what, Tommy, what gave that away, what you just said, was the way that Politico wrote

it up because they said the Biden administration didn't book any staff on the Sunday shows. Horrible thing. But, you know, they have a they, of course, Politico quotes a Sunday show producer saying they're leaving a vacuum that's baffling,. Like, oh, that's self-interested, of course. But then they put in parentheses, actually, Anthony Fauci and Marcella Nunez-Smith were on the Sunday shows, but they dismissed them as, quote, medical staff. Medical staff. And then, oh, and by the way, Janet Yellett was on, too. Because, you know what? Actual policy people who have substantive things to discuss, they don't count because they're not political people that you can play gotcha with,

because that's what they fucking want. Well, it's, you know, there's also, I've been away from society for years, so my thoughts are getting more and more wild. I was thinking about the way that Republicans, conservatives, you know, they work the refs, they say that there's a bias in these outlets. And I think that there is some sense in which that's true, which is that like reporters from Chuck Todd to Hugh Hewitt and Tucker Carlson, they're cosmopolitan elites, right? They move in circles. That is real. But I do think that there's this other kind of like cultural bias in how supposedly nonpartisan entities treat Republicans versus Democrat. And I don't mean this in terms of gender. I just mean this in terms of what it feels like in terms of how they're treated. But like Republicans are treated

as if they're masculine and Democrats are treated as if they're feminine. And what do I mean by that is it is assumed that Republicans will be strong, intransigent, confident, and that their needs need to be heard and appeased. And it's Democrats' job to be nurturing, supportive, to listen, and to take care of those needs. It is why the idea of someone asking Mitch McConnell, what are you doing to create unity today? Or asking Ted Cruz, what are you doing to bring the Senate together? Or asking Tom Cotton, why are you not doing more to address the fact that you alienate so many urban Americans?

It's why these questions are so much more unusual than the ones pointed at Democrats. There's like an assumption that Republicans are who Republicans are and it's Democrats' job to kind of nurture and help them figure out how to work together for the benefit of the country. And I think that the insurrection has called like four years of Trump, obviously, but closing with the insurrection has like called that out and made it all seem all the more ridiculous. And the two options can't be like when you have a situation in which nonpartisan and truth are not on the same side, these shows just have to choose. And I think they're really struggling to make that choice. I think that reporters know that Republicans are more likely to lie and more likely to be shameless about it and Democrats,

and they want to hold Democrats to a higher standard. I also do think they're trying to, like Maureen Dowd wrote a column a couple of weeks ago about how like, hey, Democrats, we're not on your team. The press isn't on your team. We're not allies. And all these reporters shared it around to also be performative about like, yes, we're tough on both sides. Like I do think there is this attempt to try to, you know, both sides everything and to be tough, equally tough on both Biden and Trump. And I think the reason it's a problem just from the journalist perspective is there, you know, adversarial journalism is important. Accountability is important. There's plenty of things that you can criticize the Biden White House on. There's plenty of policy issues. We're going to talk about

the MBS sanctions pretty soon. We can talk about the crisis at the border with unaccompanied migrant children. We're about to talk about Andrew Cuomo. Like there are plenty of things that you can talk about and criticize Joe Biden on. When you're down to like dog euthanizing and is he going home to fucking Delaware and why aren't we getting a press conference? Like you're just going to cause people to take you less seriously when you have actual criticisms of the administration that are based in substance,

which they should. So here's an example. Peter Baker tweeted a link about how Joe Biden hasn't done a press conference. He added the following text on top of it. At this point in office, Trump had given five news conferences. Obama had given two,

George W. Bush three, and Clinton five. Biden so far has given zero. Now, again, I think reporters have every right to advocate for access, interviews, press conferences, whatever. But there are a bunch of problems with Peter's tweet. Great New York Times reporter, by the way. First, it is deeply misleading. Four of the first news conferences that Trump gave were right after bilateral meetings with another head of state. Those are not full press conferences where they talk for an hour and it's just Biden up there alone. It's called a one-in-one or a two-in-two where both leaders take a couple of questions from the press. Obviously, Joe Biden

can't hold bilateral meetings right now because of COVID, so those aren't happening. Second, I think making Trump your baseline for access is absurd because what value did we get out of Trump shouting lies or the puffery from Fox News and OAN or from like combat with Jim Acosta and CNN, right? Like Trump would literally scream over a helicopter engine so that no one could ask him follow-ups. And so I realized that combat is good for ratings, but it was not good for people who wanted factual information. And that's why I feel like these criticisms of Biden and the press conference seem annoying in self-interested, right? So again, like be tough on Joe Biden, but like, yes, do not spin this as, you know, me being, uh, wanting the press being

on my side because I'm a Democrat, blah, blah, blah. That is not the argument. The argument is that the press core sometimes has priorities that are about themselves and are not necessarily about what voters want or their readers need from the people they cover. And that's what drives me crazy in these situations. The three of us started an entire media company because we didn't believe the press is on our side or should be on our side. Yeah, I think their problem is the problem that they're having is we've come to accept that they're not on on President Biden's side.

I'll also say this. One one part of of Joe Biden's strategy for answering questions that is not acknowledged in any of this coverage. And I understand why is he also did. He's done two town halls. He did one right after the election and he did one quite recently in which he took a bunch of questions from regular people. And I think one of the challenges that these reporters have in asking for a press conference is that regular people ask better questions than the professionals, which brings us to a segment we call Meet the People slash Beat the Press. We're doing an impromptu quiz, boys. Here's how it works. I'm going to read you a question, and it's going to be a question from a reporter asked of Jen Psaki or a regular person who is not a journalist asked to Joe Biden. I've tried my best to take out what gives it away. And I'm going to alternate. Tommy,

I'll start with you. Considering that hybrid and virtual school instruction has been in place for nearly a year now, what is the plan and recommendation to get students back into the brick and mortar buildings? Was that the people or was that the press? That sounds like a real person to me. You got it. John, over to you. Mexico's President Obrador says the people coming into the U.S. right now see Biden, President Biden, as the migrant president. Do you take that as a compliment? That's got to be a reporter. You got it. Tommy, do you have a plan to vaccinate those who are most vulnerable sooner to give them priority? Person. Correct. John, you're proposing a $15 minimum wage given the lower cost of living and specifically in the Midwest, many business owners are concerned that this will put them out of business, forcing them to downsize their cup benefits. How can you instill confidence

in small businesses that this will benefit the Midwest? Person. Correct. Tommy, the administration has refused to call it a crisis, instead referring to it as a challenge and saying what you call it doesn't make a difference on how we're responding to it. But aren't those the steps that you would take if it was a crisis that you had on your hands? Oh, that's a classic reporter question. Let's get wrapped around the axle about the lexical definition of a word. I love it.

John, that's correct. John, over to you. What will you do so that small mom and pop businesses will survive over large corporate entities? Definitely a person. Correct. Next question for you, Tommy. I was shaken by the attack on the Capitol and our democracy more broadly by your predecessor and his followers.

While I appreciate efforts being made to bring them to justice, I worry about ongoing threats to our country from Americans who embrace white supremacy and conspiracies that align with it. What can your administration do to address this complex and wide-ranging problem? Person? That's right. John, over to you. With all the principles kind of crisscrossing the country next week, it's an interesting list of states.

I'm wondering- Reporter, reporter. I'm wondering, even though this relief package has no support, what have you been hearing or what do you expect to hear from Republicans in these states? Oh, they're so bad. Their questions are, your questions are so bad. You got it. A process question that asked you predict,

to predict. Okay, good. God damn it. They're so bad. Tommy, over to you. Our nation's experience with and through the COVID-19 and other recent tragedies

have strengthened the foundation of division among Americans. What are your immediate and tangible plans to address how deeply divided we are as a nation? I'm going to say a reporter.

No, no, that was a person. That was a person. Okay, you know, listen, I get the question. I find it a little ridiculous and unrealistic, but okay. They're influenced by reporters. That person could be a White House reporter. Right, right, right. That person could get a new job.

And finally, John, Politico ran a poll yesterday. I'm not sure if you saw it. Finding that 53% of Americans think that it should be a ban on transgender athletes competing in women's sports, including 40% of Democratic respondents who agreed that there should be a ban and 49% of independents. But looking at this through his call for unity lens, do you think these opinions are coming from a place of trying to protect women's rights or equity in athletics or just flat out bigoted opinions that the president shouldn't acknowledge at this point in time. I mean, you had me at the political poll, which I know that millions of Americans wake up to every

single day. But the unity lens is a really extra touch. Yeah, that's definitely a reporter. John, you got it. I have to say, only because Tommy was tripped up by a unity question that very well could have come by a reporter, this one goes to John today. This one goes to John today. It was a tough thought. Only one incorrect question. Great job, boys. Well done. Meet the people, beat the press.

Good quiz. Great. We should do that all the time. Great job, boys. Before we leave the press conference question, too, one of the silliest things about this whole episode is that the White house has promised that he will hold a press conference by the end of the month cancel it's coming cancel all these stories all these stories are just about the fact that it hasn't happened yet but it is going to happen also jen takes questions almost every single day from the press biden has done sit-downs with 60 minutes good morning america which will air on wednesday

ron clain engages more on twitter than almost anyone i know the white house chief of staff like there's a plenty of access yeah you can shout quite by biden's taken shouted questions before so the guy's talking plenty the guy's talking plenty i'm radicalized i'm radicalized cancel everything with these people they'll learn it used to be a pool, John. One more thing. Some reporters are also pushing a narrative that the next Joe Biden scandal could be Andrew Cuomo's scandal. It seems like just about every Democratic politician in New York has now called for the governor to resign in the wake of allegations that he covered up the number of COVID nursing home deaths in his state, sexually harassed and groped employees, and cultivated a

toxic work environment. Biden has expressed support for the independent investigation into Cuomo being led by New York Attorney General Tish James. But Axios' Jonathan Swan wrote over the weekend that the scandal is becoming a Biden problem because the president's silence is, quote, increasingly conspicuous. And his position, quote, already seems unsustainable because supposedly Biden is the only Democrat who could get Cuomo to resign. What do you guys think of Biden's position here? He did say, I believe, late last night, someone shouted a question at him about this, and he basically towed the White House line, which is, you know, let's let's see where the investigation goes. Right. I mean, I think both Biden and Jen have said that the allegations are troubling and that

they want to see a swift and thorough investigation of the allegations that is being independent, but it's being led by Tish James, the attorney general. I doesn't that seem like the right answer? I mean, if somehow Cuomo is innocent of these this multitude of allegations, and I'm not suggesting that I believe that's the case, but hypothetically, then obviously some due process is important. I think it actually helps his accusers and everyone involved who want justice to be served here to be able to point to due process and evidence gathered and say, those are facts. You were treated fairly. That is not cancel culture. That is what we learned from an investigation. I mean, you know, that said, in addition to these sexual harassment allegations is the news that broke yesterday that Cuomo's vaccine czar was calling around to try to gauge political support for him. And that seems like just another outrageous abuse of power that might be impeachable in its own right. But it does seem like Biden has taken the appropriate position here and certainly said he's troubled by the allegations.

Yeah, I mean, look, you know, Schumer, Gillibrand, the entire New York congressional delegation, and obviously a ton of politicians in New York have not waited for the investigation. They just called on him to resign. I think Cuomo is clearly incredibly stubborn here. He's given multiple press conferences now where he's basically just like, fuck you people, I'm not resigning. He's not going away if Biden tells him to. So I think the idea that Biden can get him to resign

is not real. It's not, sorry, that's important. That's based on nothing. Like the idea that Biden has some, like a special power here to get Andrew Cuomo to resign, I think is like, why do you believe that? What's the evidence for that? Like Andrew Cuomo has decided it is his interest

not to resign no matter what happens. Unless like, why does Biden change that calculus? I don't think there's any reason to believe it does. Yeah, I think I think the what the White House is probably thinking because he's the president of the United States is that you need to have some certain standards and processes in place before you call on someone to resign. Like like like I think Andrew Cuomo should resign. Great. That's cost free for me. Right. He's a fucking asshole. He should be governor anymore. I'm a podcaster. But like I think that for Biden, like they want to be able to say that an investigate and we all believe in the investigation. Tish James is going to be very thorough. She's an independent source. She has obviously clashed with Cuomo in the past.

Friend of the pod. Friend of the pod. Right. It's not like we would think her investigation would be somehow controlled by Cuomo. It's going to be a very good, tough investigation. You know, Jen said this morning, the White House also wants the investigation to be to happen quickly. I think that like a long drawn out investigation where Cuomo just gets to sit there while their investigation happens is bad, right? You want something quick. But I do think if you're the president of the United States and in the White House, you want to be able to point to something that says there was a process followed, there was an investigation, here was the findings, and now he should go. Because you need to have standards for when there's other claims that happen.

I would say also that Andrew Cuomo is a massive prick. And he has now been embroiled in multiple scandals that should undo his administration. Joe Biden is the president of the United States. And from the very beginning of his, even his candidacy, he has made it a hallmark of how he campaigns and how he governs to try his best not to be central to a bunch of ongoing, even very important controversies. And I think that has behooved him at a number of key points as a candidate, as president. I think he is trying his best to not be the headline in every story in the country. And like, I think that there's value to that. I think there's value to that. And I think, and I do think the due process point that Tommy had made before is important.

And I don't think when allegations like this are raised, they government, whether it's law enforcement, whatever it may be, to give people some faith in the process that goes into sort of airing these allegations and making sure that they're credible and investigated, right? And I think that's sort of where he's at. And I think that's so important for the accusers because we live in a culture now where Donald Trump just calls everything fake news that he doesn't like and denies, denies, denies. And if you have real process and you gather evidence and you lay it all out and make that case, it doesn't matter what they say about it. It doesn't matter if Cuomo calls it cancel culture or Trump calls it fake news. If it's laid out in black and white with clear evidence, then he's going to have to go. Yeah. Okay, so one last issue that we haven't talked much about yet on Pod Save America is President Biden's early foreign policy moves.

So on the domestic side, I think a lot of progressives have been pleasantly surprised by Biden in these first 50 days, especially with the American Rescue Plan. That is less true on foreign policy. In particular, progressives have criticized the administration's failure to impose sanctions on Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman after they released a report explicitly tying MBS to the brutal murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi. They've also been criticized for the failure to get back to the negotiating table with Iran over their nuclear program and Biden's decision to carry out airstrikes against Iran

backed militias in Syria. This has sparked concerns about whether Biden is willing to rethink American foreign policy beyond just rolling back some of the worst moves of the Trump administration. This was summed up in a Daily Beast headline last week that read, Is this the week Biden returned to the blob? The blob, for those of you who don't know, is Ben Rhodes' term for the Washington establishment's mindset on foreign policy. Tommy, what do you think?

How much of the critique is warranted? And why do you think that the Biden folks made some of these decisions? Look, yeah, like re-entering Paris, getting rid of the Muslim ban, those were important things, right? I mean, Paris was largely symbolic. Getting rid of the Muslim ban was obvious and easy to do through executive order, but really important. I do think now is when it

gets complicated. And, you know, look, I am a little worried that the Biden folks haven't yet reentered the JCPOA or the Iran deal. They seem to be stuck in this dance with the Iranians about who will offer concessions first. And, you know, they're listening to attacks from Congress suggesting that they need to expand the Iran deal, that they need to make it about more than just the nuclear program and make it about all of Iran's malign activities in the region. And what I'm worried about is them potentially missing the window to get back into this deal because the Iranians have a presidential election in June that might lead to the election of

a hardliner, right? And then the next big issue they have looming is the Trump administration negotiated a deal to get all U.S. troops out of Afghanistan by May 1st. There's like twenty five hundred to thirty five hundred troops there now. Basically, everyone thinks that trying to pull all of those troops out in the next couple of months would lead to a disaster. And the negotiations, the peace talks aren't going that well. So you could have a scenario where Biden delays that withdrawal and suddenly he is seen as more conservative than even Trump on ending the war in Afghanistan. There's a there's a related conversation about counterterrorism and drone strikes, both the efficacy in the legal authorities of those programs. There's a big surge of asylum seekers on the southern border. So, you know,

Biden has the most leeway to just do stuff on foreign policy, but it also could be where he faces some of the most challenging problems and is less willing or able to appease progressives. So I do think it's something we need to watch. The Iran nuclear deal is the one, you know, I'm most focused on because I do think that is a choice they could get back in tomorrow. And I'm just worried that the blobby people, the Tom Cottons of the world, and even like Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey are going to keep pressuring Biden to take a more conservative line. And what I want from the Democratic Party is to be full-throated and proud of diplomatic solutions to problems.

Talk to Iran, talk to North Korea, get the right folks together to talk about Afghanistan and Syria and all these problems. Be proudly in favor of a nuclear deal that had worked. And let's get past this absurd dynamic in D.C. where it's much easier to be for a war than a diplomatic agreement. It's crazy. I know you guys talked about this on Pod Save the World, but on the Khashoggi issue, why did the Biden administration not take more aggressive action there? And do you think that some of the reasons they didn't were legitimate or like what were their reasons for not doing more? I mean, they made the point that usually when you have diplomatic relations with a major country like a Russia, like a China, like a Saudi Arabia, even when you put sanctions on other

elements of that country for doing some bad thing, you don't end up sanctioning a head of state. Now, Mohammed bin Salman is not the head of state currently, but he's basically the de facto head of state, the next in line to the throne. So they basically didn't want to rupture the entire U.S.-Saudi relationship by personally sanctioning him. I understand that, but I think it was a mistake here because Khashoggi's murder and the treatment of journalists and dissidents by the Saudi government and by countries like Russia and China has become a bigger issue. And candidate Biden was very clear that he would crack down on the Saudi leadership. And then they created this whole new set of sanctions, the Khashoggi sanctions that was designed to target people who go after journalists or dissidents. But they gave

the first one who did it a pass. And I think that just it landed wrong. Yeah. Yeah. It didn't seem too great. Are there are there foreign policy decisions or overall foreign policy directions from the Biden administration that you think progressives should be happy about that you're that you've been happy about? I think you guys would both agree that like putting climate change at the center of everything the U.S. government is doing and all our diplomacy and naming John Kerry to this major position and supercharging efforts to not just get back into the Paris Climate Accords, but to renegotiate a whole set of deals that would actually solve the problem.

It's the existential question we have to deal with after we get through the COVID existential question. So that does make me very hopeful. And he didn't just do the bare minimum. Like he's he's really so far like demonstrated that this is going to be one of the most important things they do, period. Oh, and I know I know one that I thought was promising is that they the White House has endorsed a new authorization for the use of military force because they have we still have the one where

it's just sort of gives the administration, whatever administration, almost unlimited power to sort of conduct military strikes in a lot of the Middle East and everywhere. Obama also came out in support of an AUMF. Getting it actually repealed and getting a new one through Congress is much, much trickier than it sounds because Congress is cowardly and they don't want to tackle hard problems a lot of the time, but it's critical. They have to do that. Well, it's also, I mean, we've now spent 30 years watching Congress cede its authority to the White House and they don't want to be in charge of when we use force and they don't want to be in charge of declaring when we don't.

They want to complain in either direction. Yep, exactly right. And I do think Biden did campaign on restoring some of those congressional prerogatives, and it would be good to see that begin. Yeah, but, you know, you and you and Ben talk about all this, this all the time, like the the opportunity in foreign policy is you're the president, you get a lot more power to do what you want without Congress in a lot of situations. But the challenge is, there is a mindset on foreign policy that is very conventional, that is that takes over both parties, and is sort of resistant to sort of big change. And,

you know, sees every problem as a problem that can be dealt with either militarily or other ways that are not necessarily diplomatic. And that that's a real problem. Yeah. I mean, listen, like we just learned recently about huge hacks on U.S. companies and government infrastructure by the Russians and the Chinese. There's going to be a ton of pressure on Biden to respond in some way. We the U.S. has, you know, preordered most of the vaccines in the world, but there is going to be a need to give some of that back and distribute it to other countries that weren't able to secure those early doses or else we're going to see variants rampaging through other parts of the world and coming back to us. So there's big, complicated political questions ahead of these guys that I think they'll do the right thing on. But you know, they're going to

be fighting against not just Republicans, but this like, blobby mindset in DC. After, by the way, yeah, look, I mean, some of this, we are 60 days into the administration. We were talking about decades old implacable problems after four years of horrific misrule. Like, some of this, you know, it's a sticky wicket. Totally. You know? Yeah, no, these, like, these are, you know, you sort of mentioned this earlier, John. I mean, the challenge of asylum seekers coming to the southern border at this time of year is a perennial one. And there's just a lack of infrastructure in place to deal with that. And there's also just a broken set of laws. Yeah, no, I mean, I was reading the stories on this this morning, like you've got all these

migrant children coming, a lot of them teenagers. And by law, the United States can't just release them into the country, even if it wasn't the law. They're kids. Where are they going to go? What are you going to do? So they're trying to hold them while they try to match them with family in the country somewhere or put them into the foster care system if they can't find families to take them. But in the meantime, while they're holding them, some of the conditions are terrible. They shouldn't be at border facilities, but sometimes the HHS facilities are full. So they're trying to build new ones as fast as they can. But it doesn't it still doesn't mean that the conditions aren't awful, you know, and

that's it's just some of these are just tough problems of governing that are almost non ideological in many ways. It's just about sort of getting government moving and just dealing with these sort of intractable problems of migration and stuff like that. But I do actually think this is what ties back. You know, we joke about the problems in the D.C. press, but I think this is where you come to where you see over a long period of time that there's a real erosion of our ability just to have really hard debates because you look at what took place on the Sunday shows

about this very difficult issue. And a lot of the debate on these shows was about, is Joe Biden responsible for the fact that there's been a surge of migrants at the border? And you have senators like Chris Murphy and others doing heroic work, Nancy Pelosi, like trying to just sort of like, this is a bad situation. It must be addressed. But here's how it happened in the past. You spend so much time like debating bad faith arguments that you rarely get to the substantive, difficult, challenging part of the policy debate. get to the substantive, difficult, challenging part of the policy debate. The question we want answered is, what should we do about the crisis at the border? What should Biden be doing? What is he doing wrong? What could he be doing right? It doesn't mean you

can't criticize him or criticize the response, but trying to just be like, is it his fault or not his fault doesn't get you to the solution. Yeah. Yeah. No, listen, political considerations have, in Florida specifically have led to terrible policy outcomes for decades. Right. I'm I'm very worried the Democrats are going to look at us getting trounced in the Miami area and think, oh, man, we can't go back to Obama's opening with Cuba, even though the Cuba embargo failed decades ago. And it was obviously time to move past it. But, you know, I worry about the political considerations. I worry about people saying, yeah, we got to keep taking a super hard line on Venezuela. We got to sanction the shit out of them every chance we get, even though you have

hospitals in Venezuela that have two hours of power per day, no gauze, no saline, let alone like COVID vaccines. Right. It's like there's real world harm and impact on innocent people in other countries that gets driven through just broken, stagnant political considerations. And I just, I hope we can push through it. It's just, you know, sometimes it takes a long time and it takes a more honest conversation and one that is, you know, not designed for Sunday show appearances, for example. So so in conclusion, Joe Biden, answer the question, is Major going to survive? Great question. That's what we're that's what we're wondering.

And until you until you're if you want to come on the show, talk about it here. You're more than welcome. But we will be challenging you just as much as we challenge a Republican. So, yeah, we're going to have a little clock like it just basically has major. No, I got to stop. I got to stop as major. I'm not doing it. I'm not finishing. No, no, no. All right, everyone. That's our show for today. And we'll talk to you soon.

Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou, Caroline Rustin, and Justine Howe for production support.

And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Narmal Konian, Yale Freed, and Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos every week.