Pod Save America - “Biden grieves, Trump tweets.”

Episode Date: May 28, 2020

The two candidates mark the pandemic death toll reaching 100,000 Americans in starkly different ways, a masked Biden emerges from his home, and both campaigns compete for black voters amid new incidents of racism and violence. Then Obama veteran Paul Tewes talks to Jon about recruiting an army of organizers to beat Trump in 2020.Adopt A State: http://votesaveamerica.com/adopt

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's pod, I talk to one of the Obama campaign's most legendary organizers, Paul Tooze, about the 2020 election and how you can make a difference. Dan, you should see Paul's beard. He looks like Santa Claus. It is outrageous. Is that pandemic related or did he happen to have that beard in a pandemic happen to happen? You know, with Tooze, it could be either. You don't know. related or did he happen to have that beard in a pandemic happen to happen?

You know, with twos, it could be either. You don't know. Before that, we'll talk about how the president marked 100,000 American deaths from coronavirus with a deranged Twitter meltdown and Joe Biden's first public appearance and interview outside of his home since the pandemic began. But first, be sure to check out Pod Save the World this week. Tommy and Ben explain how China is trying to crush dissent in Hong Kong and how the Trump administration is increasing the risk of nuclear war by walking away from decades-old bipartisan arms control agreements. Also, check out Dan's latest Good and Bad 2020 ads video, this time with special guest David Plouffe. This is exciting. Yeah, it was with special guest, David Plouffe. This is exciting.

Yeah, it was great. As usual, Plouffe is super smart. We broke down an ad from the Biden Super PAC, an ad from the Trump campaign, and the much requested Lincoln Project ad, Morning in America. All right, so everyone go check that out on youtube.com slash crooked media. Finally, if you haven't adopted a swing state,

what are you waiting for? Dan, would you like to make a pitch for your adopted state of North Carolina since Lovett and Tommy and I all did ours on Tuesday's pod and you've had some complaints about that, that North Carolina was not giving a fair hearing on that pod? Look, my complaints about this date back before

that podcast. You may remember you had a little podcast called The Wilderness. I did. Which was very focused on Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan. You even went to Florida, if I recall correctly. Yet you ignored. Dan, I only had

money for four focus groups. Yeah, and you've and you made choices. And those choices included ignoring the state of North Carolina. Not only have I adopted North Carolina, it is a Pfeiffer family project. Because in 2008, Hallie Pfeiffer was an organizer in North Carolina when Barack Obama won the state and turned it blue for the first time in a very long time. Here is why I think people should pick North Carolina when Barack Obama won the state and turned it blue for the first time in a very long time. Here is why I think people should pick North Carolina. Look, adopt any state. We will take whatever states get us to 270, but here is why North Carolina is important. It's a three-first state. It is a state where you can defeat Donald Trump, elect Cal Cunningham, and rip the gavel from Mitch McConnell's ghoulish clause and flip the state

legislature towards the Democrats. Reason number two, the Google North Carolina Republicans, they make the folks in Wisconsin look like the Lincoln Project. They are on the forefront of rigging democracy and stealing elections. And these people should be nowhere near power. And so we have to do that. And this is a state that I think maybe most importantly, above all the reasons, except the one that Hallie used to work there, is that this is a state that is entirely about mobilization. There are more than enough unregistered Democratic voters in North Carolina to win the election. So if there are sufficient volunteers, sufficient activism, we can win the state. That is the path Obama used in 2008. We can win it again. And so join Team North Carolina.

You have me, you have Elijah, you have Shaniqua, you have Yale. We have a core group of the best content creators and staff at Crooked. And it's going to be an uphill climb. We don't get enough attention. There's a lot of focus on Florida. And everyone loves Wisconsin. And Arizona was hipster like four months ago, but now it's super mainstream. And so if you want to be on the leading edge of the new emerging Democratic majority in this country, you're going to be on the Team North Carolina. Look, I think you made a lot of compelling arguments there, none more so than join team north carolina because of the content creation

you know what we live we live in a meme and video world and when and and have you seen have you seen the videos that elijah's yeah if you guys follow elijah on twitter you'll uh he's really been spending most of his work day making... Defeating Donald Trump? Are you going to dock his pay? But also, look, if you want to flip the state that once made Joe Arpaio sheriff,

you know, come join Team Arizona. That's my pitch. Hey, look, I'm not against winning Arizona. No, I'm not against winning North Carolina. But I would like people on my team. And in fact, you know, many, many, let's just say many people are saying that many volunteers have signed up for Team Arizona. Anyway. Have the Arizona Democratic establishment rushed to Team Arizona? Look, Kirsten Sinema, Mark Kelly, if you're out there, I'm pretty thirsty on Twitter.

I'm trying to get you guys to tweet about this. Haven't heard anything yet. So that's okay. That's okay. This is a grassroots. It's a marathon. This is a grassroots movement. All right. Anyway, go to Vote about this. Haven't heard anything yet. So that's okay. That's okay. This is a grassroots. It's a marathon. This is a grassroots movement. All right.

Anyway, go to votesaveamerica.com slash adopt. Pick a state and we will send you specific calls to action that you can do right from your couch between now and November.

It is super important. This is what you can do to help win this election. All right. Let's get to the news. As of Wednesday, just over three months into this pandemic, more than 100,000 Americans have died from COVID-19, easily one of the worst tragedies our country has ever endured. We have already lost more people to

COVID than we did in Vietnam, the Persian Gulf, Iraq, and Afghanistan combined. It's stunning. Many media outlets and elected officials from both parties marked the grim milestone in some way yesterday on Wednesday. Here's a video clip from former Vice President Joe Biden. There are moments in our history so grim, so heartrending that they're forever fixed in each of our hearts a shared grief. Today is one of those moments. 100,000 lives have now been lost to this virus. To all of you who are hurting so badly, I'm so sorry for your loss. This nation grieves with you. Take some solace from the fact we all grieve with you. So we don't have a Trump clip because he didn't say a word on Wednesday about the fact that 100,000

Americans have died. Instead, he played golf over the weekend, falsely accused Joe Scarborough of murder, falsely accused Barack Obama of spying on him. Falsely accused Democrats of trying to steal the election. Falsely claimed that vote by mail is fraudulent. Falsely accused Twitter of interfering in the election because they fact checked his claim about vote by mail. Retweeted some truly vile insults about Nancy Pelosi, Stacey Abrams and Hillary Clinton. Celebrated the news that the Atlantic is laying off 20% of its staff and that the Dow hit 25,000. And this morning on Thursday, he shared a tweet where a Republican County commissioner in New Mexico said,

quote, the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat. So Dan, do you think that the president has struck the right tone for the moment? I know, I know people like to analyze tone. Yeah. I will say this to you right now, John.

The optics are not good. The optics are not good, Dan. Like you read that completely insane list of things and your choices are laughing and crying. And it is just stunning. And there are two things that are stunning at the same time. And I think the scale of the challenges are such that they're hard to actually grapple with in a real way,

which is one, you went through the numbers that 100,000 Americans have died in a few months. And at the exact same time that that national tragedy and a preventable national tragedy happened, the person who is our president is someone who not for one second has seemed to think about the scale of that tragedy, has tried to heal the nation, has wrestled with the idea that some of the decisions he made or did not make contributed to that. He has only sought to elude blame for the problem that he allowed to happen. And for everything else we talked about in this election and healthcare and taxes and civil rights

and all the other important issues on the ballot, what ultimately comes down to is presidents are the head of state of this country and we are going to face tragedies again. And we should just be very, very clear that it is highly likely based on the history of pandemics like this and the pace at which vaccines are usually developed that the person who was sworn in in January of 2021 will be president at a time which coronavirus still exists. You can either have someone who had a message like the one Joe Biden had, who clearly, in a heart wrenching and raw way, was dealing with what is actually happening in this country. And you have someone who, as opposed to trying to solve the problem, is simply trying to distract people from the problem.

Yeah, I mean, I found Biden's video moving and powerful, not just because of the particular words or Biden himself. But I guess I hadn't realized how much just as an American, I wanted a leader to talk to us during a difficult time. And in the past, every time the country's been through a tragedy, whether you agreed with the president in power or not, whether you're from the same party or not, you could want that person out of office immediately. But at the very least, the president would step up and speak to the nation and comfort the nation and offer some solace and remind us that we are one country and that we have more in common than that which divides us. And it was, you know, the first thing to be really sad about is obviously 100,000 Americans dying. And sort of a second order thing is just the fact that we've lost this sort of sense of national leadership that sort of a second order thing is just the fact that we've lost this sort of sense of national

leadership that sort of brings us together as a country during these really difficult times. And, you know, it makes you pretty enraged that we have a president like this. Why do you think he seems even more unhinged than usual? Or I guess I should say, do you think he seems even more unhinged than usual? I mean, even some of his right wing media pals at the Washington Examiner, the Wall Street Journal editorial board criticized the Scarborough thing. this he's been on this like multi-day rampage spreading some deranged conspiracy theory about a cable news host um that just has no basis in reality whatsoever and he just won't give it up like what is going on with him i think just to be so people have the information they need we should explain why the scarborough conspiracy theory is false and what the facts are, which is that when Joe Scarborough was serving in Congress many years ago, he had a 28-year-old intern who died in the office from a head injury. The medical examiner determined that the woman passed out and hit her head due to an undiagnosed heart condition. The law enforcement accepted that explanation. The family accepted that explanation.

And we've moved on. This has been a conspiracy theory that has been swirling on the nether reasons of the internet for a long time. And Donald Trump, because he saw it in his political interest or to deal with the grievance of being criticized for his performance as president, decided to use the presidential bully pulpit to communicate this to millions of people without any regard for the family of the woman who passed away. I just I mean, I'm glad I'm glad.

Thank you for providing all the facts about that. So people know. But it's just like, again, it is, you know, from the day that Donald Trump started running for president until maybe the outbreak of the pandemic, we talk about these little these tangents, these crazy conspiracy theories of Trump's, you know, every time we have a podcast. seems even more bizarre and deranged that he continues to talk about this shit while the nation is going through one of its worst crises in history. I do understand from the Trump campaigns, just from a pure political perspective, they have decided we want to pretend the pandemic doesn't exist anymore. We don't want to talk about it because it's not helping Donald Trump because people think that he fucked it up. We want to focus on reopening

and the economy and Trump's going to be the leader of the recovery, blah, blah, blah. But they can't even they can't even focus on that message because every day he just goes off on 10 other tangents on Twitter. Like I just, you know, like I just recited and I'm just I guess he's just incapable of a message. Is he just extra angry? Like, I don't understand it. Yeah, look, I think the behavior is the same, but the backdrop has changed. Right. Right.

This has not changed him in any way. This crisis has literally not changed him a bit. If we were to go back and read the outlines of Posse America pods for the last three and a half years, a large number of them begin with some period of Trump insanity on Twitter, right? A rainy weekend where you guys had to go through all the tweets that he sent when he wasn't golfing, his like, you know, on a Monday pod, him going crazy and us talking about like, this happens all the time. But it feels different when you have 40 million Americans losing their job and 100,000 Americans dead than in normal times. Yeah. Even still, even having said that, I still think as a nation and a political culture and a media culture, we are still way too okay with this. Like, I tried to describe how we go about life in America with a president like this, who is completely deranged, deeply dangerous, without a doubt, one of the worst people

in America. He is just a horrible individual, cares about nothing other than himself. The best way I could come up to describe it is that we are uncomfortably numb. Like we all know this is bad. We know, you know, put aside the MAGA hat wearing base, the majority of the country, even people who support Trump are uncomfortable with his behavior. But this, the short term danger of him being president, the long term consequences of the fact that someone like Trump could become president are like too much for us to wrestle with. So even in a pandemic, you know, this is treated as a news story, but not sort of the cataclysmic event that it would move people's opinions about who our president is and what he's doing. I mean, you know, when I woke up and saw him share the tweet about that asshole in

New Mexico who said the only good Democrat is a dead Democrat who, you know, and it's of course, this is all classic Trump. And the guy was like, oh, I didn't mean that literally. And then he goes on to say, oh, but I would give Gretchen Whitmer and and Ralph Northam a choice, either hanging or firing squad, you know, so whatever. But like I saw that I'm like, oh, this will be the thing that like people will be talking about this, this is going to dominate Twitter. Then I'm like scrolling, I'm reading other news stories. And you know, people are mentioning it here and there, but it's not a big deal. And I'm thinking like, you know, we've we went through the tragedy in El Paso, in right before the midterms in 2018. Sort of, you know, we saw pipe bombs sent to Democratic leaders,

violence that was inspired by, the perpetrators of violence said they were inspired by some of the things that Trump said. And like, we made a bigger deal of it then. And now it's happening again. And we're just like, well, we just got to move on to the next thing.

Also, you know, he's signing an executive order to, because he's mad about Twitter and he's going to try to, like, go after social media companies now. So we have to talk about that, too. I mean, I guess the question is, like, how what is the most effective message to voters about this kind of behavior? Because there's people like us and a lot of people listening who pay attention to this and get exercised about this every single day. And there's a lot of Americans, most Americans, who are going about their lives trying to make sure they're healthy and don't get COVID, trying to make sure that they keep their job or get another job if they've lost theirs, trying to put food on the table. Like, how do we talk about this to people who are going to vote in November? talk about this to people who are going to vote in November? We have to make Trump's actions be about Trump. We have to explain that it is a message of Trump first, America last, that at a time in which Americans are dying, people are losing their job, he's not focused on

preventing the spread of the pandemic or fixing the economy. He is focused entirely on rewarding himself, getting reelected and punishing his enemies. That he is always Trump first, always America last, which has two benefits. One, it helps create motivation for the behaviors that he's demonstrating because simply etiquette violations or not being a normal president or saying untoward things is not in and of itself a powerful re-election message. What you have to do is you have to demonstrate how it affects people's lives. And we could be doing all these other things, except we have a president who wakes up every day thinking about himself, not thinking about the country. If he suddenly becomes a little more disciplined, or at least if his campaign becomes disciplined in the messages that they're putting out there through advertising.

Do you think it's possible that they can achieve their strategic goal of changing the narrative from the pandemic to sort of this economic recovery? You know, there was a story in Politico about how some Democrats are worried about, you know, if we do have this V-shaped recovery because, you know, we have massive job losses in the spring, massive, you know, contraction of the economy. But then as the economy reopens, you know, maybe we bounce back. And so you have GDP numbers and jobs numbers that seem like they are like the biggest job growth that we've seen, the biggest GDP growth that we've seen. Even if it doesn't bring us back anywhere close to where we were when the pandemic hit. But just the numbers themselves and Trump's touting of those numbers would somehow boost his reelection chances. Like, what did you think of that story? And also, do you think that Trump's going to be able to sort of change the narrative

and change the focus, people's focus over the next four or five months? and change the focus, people's focus over the next four or five months? I mean, as we know, things get flushed down the memory hole very quickly. Now, this is a much, much bigger deal than anything that we've ever put to that test before. This is not a brief government shutdown. This is not even impeachment. It is a national crisis unlike anything we've seen in a century. national crisis, unlike anything we've seen in a century. And so, but, you know, if we are in a situation where you have a resurgence of the virus in the fall, it kind of gets shut down again, that'll, that obviously is going to dictate the terms of this. What I think, I read that story,

and I went into it thinking I should panic, but I adhere to our adage of worrying and not panicking. went into it thinking I should panic, but I adhere to our adage of worrying and not panicking. And so a couple things about it. One, we know from having worked in the White House for President Obama in 2009 and 2010, where we had some months with large job increases because of the Recovery Act. And it also happened to fall at the time in which the Commerce Department was hiring census workers, which is a temporary inflation of the jobs numbers. And those numbers did not change people's impressions of the economy at all, because they're looking at it from their personal perspective, right? Despite what, you know, either the stock market or some jobs number says, you're living the reality of it. And the fear and anxiety you have for your family and your job certainly outweighs some headline you may or may not see. And certainly in this media environment,

it's going to be harder to see that. Now, my caveat to that and the reason why I do worry is we know, as we talked about last week, that the only thing that is propping Trump up is his economic approval rate, that voters give him credit on the economy that we do not believe he deserves in any way, shape or form, because I do not think someone should go on Mount Rushmore for not fucking up Barack Obama's economy until he did fuck it up. But I think the way to like we can't we don't know what's going to happen in the fall. We don't know what the number is going to look like. But the way to limit whatever gains he can have is to define right now what economic recovery means to Trump, like who he's trying to help, right? That he is celebrating as his

idiot son, Eric Trump did yesterday on the day 100,000 people died, celebrated the Dow Jones getting to 25,000. Right. Right. So that this is about him helping big business corporations, the wealthy and not average everyday people. And so if you can define who Trump is fighting for and who Biden's fighting for, then you will fare better in an environment where Trump has some headlines or information that he can weaponize to make a case that he is sort of leading some sort of comeback, even if we know that's bullshit.

Yeah, I think the central question of the election has to be what kind of recovery do you want? Do you want a recovery that benefits Trump and his friends and Mitch McConnell and his friends? Or do you want a recovery that benefits you not only financially, but also keeps you healthy, keeps you healthy, safe and with a job that pays the bills? And that's and that's what that's the case that Biden and the Democrats have to make. All right, let's talk about what Trump's opponent has been up to. Joe Biden made his first public appearance in two months when he visited a veterans park in Delaware for Memorial Day. Veterans Park in Delaware for Memorial Day. Biden, his wife Jill, and his staff all wore masks to the wreath-laying ceremony. The former vice president, whose late son Beau served in the military, told reporters, quote, never forget the sacrifices that these men and women made. Never, ever forget.

Later that day, Trump retweeted Fox pundit Brit Hume mocking Biden for wearing a mask, and then said to a reporter, quote, he was standing outside with his wife, perfect conditions, perfect weather. And so I thought it was very unusual that he had one on. He also shared a tweet this morning that said the image of Biden in a mask, quote, endorses culture of silence, slavery and social death. The fuck? Biden, in his first in-person interview since the pandemic began, told CNN's Dana Bash that Trump is an, quote, absolute fool and that his opposition to masks is macho stuff that's costing people's lives. All right. Before we get to the mask issue, what did you think of Biden's decision to leave his

home and do a Memorial Day event? Should he do more things like this? I mean, it was it was great to see him out there. I think it got tremendous amount of attention. It seems like the fact that he had been in his house or there's a the candidate, but the Secret Service, the staff and everyone who has to travel with a presidential nominee. And I think we will – I don't know of any specific plans, but I think we will begin to see some more things like that. But it's going to be limited given the constraints at which he's under. But it obviously will ramp up over time. Yeah, I mean, look, and in Delaware, they're starting to relax some of the social distancing

regulations that they've put in place, some of the restrictions. And so has every state at this point. Now, I think all 50 states have some tentative plans for reopening. I think in Delaware, Governor Carney announced on Tuesday that outdoor gatherings of up to 250 people are allowed with precautions, face covering, social distancing, etc. But like to figure out, you know, public events that are not in his house that are creative in the sense that they show Biden out on the campaign trail, but also make sure to protect him and the people around him, like you said. All right. Let's talk about the masks. So the latest Navigator tracking poll shows that nearly 75 percent of Americans are in favor of wearing masks, including more than half of Republicans. Two thirds of Americans disapprove of Trump's refusal to wear a mask.

And the vast majority of people in both parties want their elected officials to wear masks inside. So why is Trump trying so hard to make this some kind of polarized culture war? Is there a strategy here? Is he just being an asshole? Like, what do you think? Well, I think probably both.

So I think on the asshole front, I think he just has this natural instinct for trying to find wedge issues. Like, he knows he does better in a period of time of division. He succeeds through polarization. And so he's trying to create this wedge between people who don't want the virus and scientists and local officials and his voters. It's not really clear. Now, I'm not a political expert on any level, but I'm pretty sure that on a 75, 18% issue, you do not want to choose the 18% side. But that's where he is. I think to the extent that there's a strategy, and I always think Trump's decisions are more instinctual than intellectual.

I think that's probably a patently obvious thing to say, and instinctual may be giving him too much credit. I think it's probably apparently obvious thing to say and instinctual maybe giving him too much credit. But is like if you are trying to pretend like the virus either never happened or is not here, right? Is that we like if you believe you need to return to normal to be able to get the economy going and return to your really comfortable 44% average approval rating, then having people wear masks is a constant reminder of potentially your failure to prevent the virus from spreading as it did. And so I think that's why he naturally does not want people to be wearing masks around him because it reminds perhaps himself of his failure, but also reminds the public of his failure. I thought I was looking for some Trump ally official to actually give an explanation of why he keeps shitting on mask wearing and why this has become a fucking thing on Fox News and all the rest of the wackos on the right. Eric Beach, who is the co-chairman of one of trump's super PACs said this to the washington post quote there is this capitulation that biden seems to have believe the science don't question

anything and don't show any leadership whereas trump understands that we should question science and should question data i mean it that's it that's's it. Biden, we are criticizing Biden because he believes in science. And Trump knows what real leadership is not believing in science. Do you think Trump and Eric Beach, whoever he may be, questions gravity? A real leader says to themselves themselves is the world really round yes president kairi irving up here so i mean on a sort of the broader culture war sense which the culture war thing by the way gets me annoyed because the way the media portrays it is that everyone is automatically polarized everyone is already divided by a culture where everything's left, right, red, blue, blah, blah, blah. They love

this. But we're not divided over masks. Republican voters are the only ones divided over whether to wear masks. Democrats are fully supportive. Independents are fully supportive. Half the Republican Party is fully supportive. You know, the very, very conservative governor of North Dakota made like an emotional plea for people to wear masks. Mike DeWine, governor of Ohio, has been making a plea. Like there are Republican officials out there. The only people that are divided about this right now are the Republican Party, though of course Donald Trump will try to make this an issue where, you know, your allegiance to the Republican Party is dependent on whether you approve or disapprove of masks. But that's the whole point.

He tries to polarize these things. We are not naturally divided as a country. We are not naturally polarized as a country. We are polarized because we have a president that tries to polarize us every single day. And there's another party that is not trying to do that, that is actively trying to make sure that we all do something that would protect us. And there are Republican officials who are trying to do that as well. So that's the polarization thing. But, you know, Axios had a piece the other day where they said that this is part of a larger strategy. You know, Trump is out and about, masks be damned. Watch for plenty more

mask-free outings from Trump, hyping the reopening of the economy and avoiding discussions of social distancing and death counts. And watch for a visual contrast between the two party conventions in August. Two sources close to the president say they hope to have a boisterous live crowd. They want to have more people there physically than at the Democratic convention. So you can see what Trump wants to set up for the fall, right? He is the guy who is championing the opening of the economy. He's going to go and have his rallies with his big crowds. He's strong and tough and he doesn't worry about any virus. And he wants people to just live their lives and be normal and stuff like that.

And there's weak, cowardly Joe Biden and the Democrats hiding indoors, doing their virtual events, not doing a rally. They want you to stay home. They don't want you to live their lives. That seems to be what the contrast he wants to set up for the fall. What do you think about that? Can it be effective? I mean, can we just stipulate that even if you looked at this, as Trump does, through his pure self-interest, which we presume is centered around getting reelected, there is no dispute to this. The more people who wear masks, the less spread of the virus is. The less spread of the virus there

is, the more economic activity. The more economic activity, the faster the economy grows, and the more jobs are created. The more economic growth in jobs, the better chance Trump has of being reelected. Yet he has decided to say, nope, because I think either I look funny in a mask, Yet he has decided to say, nope, because I think either I look funny in a mask or I'm going to be some sort of culture warrior, even though that's a complete misuse of the term culture war. Media, great job. That he's going to make it more likely that we have a resurgence in the fall, which makes it more likely that he will be defeated.

The strategy could have used a little bit of scrutiny from either the Trump campaign or the reporters writing about it because it makes almost no sense. But to the extent that like buried in the absurdity that the Trump campaign has put forward is the idea that they are trying to say Biden is old and frail and not up to the job. Like that is a huge part of the messaging from Trump, his Twitter account, Fox News, which is his Twitter account on TV. And the one way to do that is a contrast of images of Trump in factories or in front of crowds and Biden in a mask in his basement or whatever else. I don't think the Biden campaign is going to allow that to be the exact contrast, but they're trying to show that Trump is up to

the task and that even if you have questions about Trump, Biden is definitely not up to the task of getting the country out of this mess. And they're trying to, which is not bad political strategy. I think it's a tough task, is to flip the crisis on its head and turn it into an asset for Trump as opposed to a weakness. asset for Trump as opposed to a weakness. Yeah. And all I would say is, you know, Republicans want the frame to be, you know, Trump wants everything open. Democrats want everything closed. And then they want to force Democrats to either say, yes, things should be closed because we want to keep people safe or no, we're opening some stuff, but we want to you know, they want they want the frame to be open, closed. And I think Democrats need to pull it out of that frame and say that Trump wants to do nothing about the crisis, except things that help his reelection. That's the only, he has no plan. He has no plan for jobs.

He has no plan to stop the spread of the virus. He has no plan to put you back to work. He has no plan to help you in any way. He has one plan, and that plan is to get reelected. Democrats want to keep you safe, keep you healthy, put you back to work, make sure you can pay your bills. We want to do something about this crisis that is both a health crisis and an economic crisis. He doesn't want to do anything. And he has proved that he hasn't done anything yet, which is why we're still in the mess that we're in. So I just think it's like, we can't let it be a frame of they're open, we're closed, which, as you saw from the lazy reporting on this, the media is very, you know, they're willing to like buy into that frame that it's red, blue America, culture war, masks, no masks. You can see how the media is going to eat this up. And I think we're going to have to work harder to sort of pull it out of that frame.

I agree with everything you said, except that we're not for one addendum, which I think we should give Trump two plans. Get reelected, help his wealthy friends and corporations. Because I think the public assumes with some reason that every politician wants to get reelected. So that's not necessarily a deficit. But if you can point out the plutocratic economic part of this, I think that also will help.

That's right. That's right. But the point of that is that requires Democrats to also have a plan, a specific plan for real. Yes, it does. I have no doubt that the Biden campaign is working on somewhere, but we're going to can't plan always beats no plan. Right. And currently we're in a no plan versus no plan world. And so we need a plan. Yeah. And when we say plan, you know, we don't mean you're like 20 page policy prescription that's on your website somewhere, like a plan that every voter or at least every organizer can recite to every voter easily. So the Trump campaign is also attacking Biden for comments he made at the end of an

interview on The Breakfast Club last Friday with Charlamagne Tha God. He said, quote, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black. Biden later apologized in a call with black business leaders and told him that he shouldn't have been so, quote, cavalier, saying, quote, I know that the comments have come off like I was taking the African-American vote for granted, but nothing could be further from the truth. I've never, ever done that, and I've earned it every time I've run. Of course, Trump campaign is already running digital ads and selling you ain't black T-shirts. Very subtle as usual. Dan, what was your reaction to Biden's comments? You know, as someone who has staffed many, many interviews for political

candidates and presidents, I don't think I've ever seen someone make a mistake so close to the finish line. I thought that too. I woke up and I heard about it on Twitter and I watched the 18-minute interview and I'm like, wait, where is this? Where is this? And then I'm like, they're leaving. They're ending the interview.

I don't see it. Did someone make a mistake? And I was like, oh, there it is. There it is at the very end. Yeah, yes. It was after he said bye, he made the mistake. And it was very clearly a mistake. It was obviously the wrong thing to say. I did think as the day went on that you can understand the media ecosystem incentives that cause some politicians to never apologize,

mostly Republican politicians. Now, I want a politician, a president, a presidential candidate who is willing to admit they were wrong and to apologize when they cause offense. So I think it's the right thing to do. But I'm sitting there, this happens, you know, the Trump campaign puts out the t-shirts, everyone is reacting to it, there's a Twitter swirl. You know, the world kind of moves on a little bit, at least in terms of the online conversation about it. And then I'm holding my phone in my hand and I get nine news alerts. That's like Biden apologizes, Biden apologizes, Biden apologizes, Biden apologizes. And so you see that somehow we live in a world where Biden gets a hundred times more coverage than

Trump for saying the wrong thing and apologizing than Trump does for saying the wrong thing and never apologizing. And like Biden was right to apologize. It is the morally right thing to do, obviously, and the medium and long term, the politically right thing to do. But like it is not treated the same way or fairly. And there's a real asymmetry in how these things are covered. Yeah, I mean, it's back to the conversation we've had a million times about like 2016 and how there haven't been many lessons learned from 2016 at all.

And I think it is a we we can yell about it and yell about media coverage, but it's going to be a dynamic that we all have to deal with between now and November that any time Biden makes a mistake, it will be on somewhat of an equal plane as Trump mistakes that are a thousand times worse. But, you know, this goes to why Trump thinks he can benefit politically from this. Like, I think the Trump people know that he's one of the most racist people to ever hold office. I mean, he says racist things 10 times a day. And yet they think this will benefit them politically. Why? What's their strategy here? You know, there's a whole bunch of stories that like behind the curtain stories about the Trump campaign effort to court African-American voters.

And they're very in-depth. And I think, in fairness to the reporters, pretty skeptical of both the efficacy and sincerity of these efforts. But they're putting real resources behind this. They have a show on the Trump app that is called Black Voices with Katrina Pearson and others. There's a lot of merch. They're putting up signs and storefronts in African American communities. And so they're putting resources behind it. I think the question is, and I think this is true for the vast majority of Republican party efforts to court black voters, is are they trying to get more African-Americans to vote for them? Or are they trying to convince white moderates who are uncomfortable with Trump's racism

that he's not as racist as they might think? The question isn't the strategy. It's what the target audience is. And and so I think that is how to analyze this necessarily. I also think they don't necessarily think they can get a lot of black voters to cast their ballots for Trump, but they do think that they can get some small percentage of black voters, particularly young black voters, who do not have a long time attachment to the Democratic Party, as older black voters do, to stay home, right? Which is what they tried to do in 2016 with some success. And if you look at the places where we need to win,

in 2016 with some success. And if you look at the places where we need to win in Michigan, around Detroit, in Pennsylvania, around Philadelphia, and, you know, a little less so in Wisconsin, I think. But there are places where they think if they can shave the margin just a little bit, that can make the difference. And I do, you know, my issue with Biden's comments, which he was, you know, I'm glad he apologized for is, I think for a lot of, at least this is what the data shows, I think for a lot of older black voters, they probably care less about that. They do have a longtime attachment to the Democratic Party. And they understand that, you know, of course, we're not going to vote for Trump, and they have an affection for Joe Biden. But I think there's a lot of young people of color, and this is true of young people in general, who don't really have an attachment to either party.

And the reason they don't have, they could have very liberal progressive values. But the reason that they don't have an attachment to either party is they don't see that anyone has done anything for them to make their life better over the last several years. And they're worried about their job prospects. They're worried about police brutality and police violence, which we're going to talk about in a second. They're now worried about how they've been disproportionately impacted by this virus. And again, they look around and they see no one seems to care.

And all these politicians say the same thing around the election time. And yes, Trump's racist. And I get that. But where are the Democrats? Where is Joe Biden? What have they done? And so when you hear Joe Biden say, you know, you ain't black, they think, well, you know what? And this is what Charlemagne said to him. Charlemagne's like, this isn't about Trump. I don't like Trump. I'm wondering, as president, what are you going to do for my community? How many times have politicians shown up in Black communities to ask for votes? And then after the election, nothing happens. And we can say that Democrats have been fighting really hard to improve life in Black communities. And that the reason that it doesn't happen is because Republicans have obstructed us in Congress,

and they've stopped us at every turn and all that kind of stuff. And it's all true. But again, when all you see is a bunch of politicians talking and then you don't see improvement come to your community, over time, you're going to have less of an attachment to that party. And to me, that is and it goes way beyond what Biden said and apologize. That's that's fine. But I think a big challenge in this election, I mean, you know, black turnout went down between Obama and Hillary, and that's somewhat understandable. He's the first black president. And then already in polls, you know, Joe Biden is not receiving the same share of the black vote in polls that Hillary Clinton did. And particularly that's that's concentrated in young voters. And we've talked about this

before in the in the universe of up for grabs voters. They are disproportionately young and disproportionately people of color right now. And, you know, I think the question is, aside from this gaffe, aside from what the Trump campaign is doing, what would Biden not taking black voters for granted actually look like? I mean, I think based on a lot of the people who have been hired by the campaign and a lot of things we know is that this is something I have no reason to believe that they have any plans to take African-American voters for granted, despite what Joe Biden said that from the campaign's perspective, it is about organizing in the community with local people now.

It is about outreach now. It's not waiting until – like the complaint you always hear is that Democratic Party politicians come in a month before the election and focus on GOTV. It is about doing real organizing right now that begins with conversations about what needs to be done in the community. And I think that that has to be done. Now, that is much more challenging in a pandemic context where you can't go door to door, you can't go to community meetings. It's much harder, but it has to be done. And I think you're exactly right that the Trump campaign's goal is not to get more black voters. It's to make sure that Joe Biden gets fewer black voters.

And it's not about the margin. It's about the aggregate number of total voters. And if I was in the Trump campaign, if you look at, you always want to find sort of the inefficiency in the system that you can exploit, right? And so if you know that you only have to move a group of voters two points to change the outcome, that is a very efficient way to spend money. And so that is why they are focused on it. Because if you just, you change that number by two or three points in Wisconsin or Michigan or Pennsylvania or North Carolina, for example, you're going to win as opposed to losing. And we have to be very wary of that. And we can, not just Joe Biden,

but the entire party can take nothing for granted. And we have to be, and it is not enough to just yell that Donald Trump is racist. We've actually seen research that shows that that is one of the least persuasive arguments with African-American voters who we need to get bring back into our camp. In fact, it's more persuasive to white liberals than most African-American voters. Yes, because they understand that, and this is part of our next topic, they understand that racism is structural and is much bigger than just Donald Trump's tweets. Well, and on that note, you know, the other important thing to note here as we're having this conversation, you know, there have been a series of very horrific instances of racist violence and discrimination over the last several weeks. We're now in the third day of protests in Minneapolis over the murder of George Floyd, a black man who died after he was pinned down and suffocated by police while he begged for his life.

his life. I would highly recommend listening to Akilah Hughes talk about this on Wednesday's episode of What A Day. It's very powerful. The officers have been fired but not charged with anything yet. On Tuesday, Biden called for a civil rights investigation into the killing, which he said was, quote, part of an ingrained systemic cycle of injustice that still exists where black lives are under threat every single day. Later, Trump tweeted out a call for an expedited investigation, but didn't mention systemic racism. To me, the way Biden handles this is far more important than how he deals with his Breakfast Club comments. What do you think? I think that's right. I think this is a very important conversation to have. And it's a very different one than we normally have. I think it has to be one that's very honest, which is most of the time in the context of

Pod Save America, we talk about these things. We talk about them in terms of how winning the election will change things, right? Where you're concerned about whether the ACA is around or whether more Americans should get access to health care or whether we're going to stop destroying the planet, try something different. And electing Joe Biden and Democrats in the Senate, Democrats in the House, up and down the ballot, all of that is a solution to those problems. We should, like, no one should be naive. No white liberal should suggest that somehow winning this election is going to fundamentally change the dynamics that are at play here, right, between the racism we saw in Central Park, obviously the police violence that has plagued our communities for a very long time that we're only paying more attention to now because

of smartphone videos are showing it. It's not going to change that. Will Joe Biden do a much better job of trying to address both the root causes and some of the behaviors that lead to this? 100%. Even the steps, you know of the behaviors that lead to this? 100%. Even the steps that were taken in the Obama administration around police violence against minority citizens were, I have no doubt, not enough and later than they should have been. But even those steps were undone by Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump in the first few days. And Joe Biden would put those in and go beyond it. And I think he has to have a very specific plan for it. And I know he's talked about a bunch of this stuff during the primary and should talk about

it again now. But this is the country in the world in which we live in. And I think it's really important for folks like us to listen to Akilah, to read some of the things that Brittany and a lot of other people have said about this and try to understand the right way for white liberals to respond to this, that fully understands the fear and despair and grief that comes from this from the African-American community. And I think a lot that really needs to be thought about is the sharing of these videos that Akilah talked about

that you would never share in any other context. And we don't think about that enough because I think people share them and they think, you know, despite maybe some subconscious sense of showing the world that they are woke, it's that we want the world to know this happens. But as Akilah points out, just so passionately and powerfully in her remarks,

that's not what's changing things, right? And you have to think about who is here and there. And it's impossible to put ourselves in those shoes. But I think about the comments from Christian Cooper in the New York Times, where he is the person who was in Central Park as a birdwatcher and got in this altercation with a woman about her dog being off the leash. And he talked about how his passion is birdwatching and that he has to think every day that he has chosen a hobby that has him crawling through the bushes with a metal object in his hands. And that if he comes out from behind the bush in the wrong way or at the wrong time, his life is at risk.

And that is something that is much bigger than this election or anything else. And it goes beyond any of these videos. It is the fundamental reality that a huge portion of Americans are living in. And addressing that, it's bigger than tweets and it's bigger than everything else we're talking about here. Well, I mean, back to our earlier conversation about, you know, sort of needing a president who can help the country grieve during a time like this. Right. There is Biden, of course, needs plans for this and he'll have plans. And I don't doubt that he will. And he'll say the right things and he'll and he'll have the right kind of plans to address this, hopefully. But more important than that, maybe even more important than that, is speaking about it in an honest way and showing that he gets it, that he gets at the core what this is really about, that he you know, that I mean, we have now seen protests in Minneapolis over the last couple of days.

There are protests here in L.A. about this. This could continue. And as the country is sort of going through this turmoil and especially as the black community is sort of demanding rightfully that people understand what they have been going through and fearing for so long in this country. We need to have a president. We need to have leaders who show that they understand that and that they can help heal the country and help find justice. And that is not, like I said, that is more than just plans. That is constantly talking about this, making this part of your message, making this part of the everyday discussions you have, not siphoning it off so that you're only talking about it when something pops up in the news, but that you're talking about it through this whole campaign. And, you know, like it's just getting the message out there. It's like what we've been talking about with

everything else. And so I do think that's that's something that the Biden campaign needs to be focused on. One last question on this. Do you think any of this will impact Biden's VP selection? Should it? I don't know. Obviously, none of us know. And it's always the always important stipulation and discussion about rumors, reporting around VPs is in almost every, in every case, the people who talk don't know and people who know don't talk. So you hear reporting about Biden's down to these two people or this person's every favorite. No one actually knows. And I actually frankly think Joe Biden does not know right now who his shortlist is because he said last night at a fundraiser he would probably make a decision around August 1.

shortlist is because he said last night at a fundraiser, he would probably make a decision around August 1. And so if you just base on schedule, it's unlikely that the vetting and other processes and certainly the interviews have happened yet. I don't know whether this will have an impact on it. Polling to the extent we've seen it shows that it's not really clear. Some polling suggests that some people may add more to the ticket. There's a story out today that some polling that Stan Greenberg, a Democratic pollster, did says that Elizabeth Warren would be the best option. I've seen polling that says it doesn't make a huge difference. specifics of these individual things is like, what is the impact of a sort of a larger meta conversation in our politics about Joe Biden specifically not picking a woman of color? Yeah. Right. Where you have very clearly qualified people in those positions to do it,

right? Like it's not an abstract question. It is someone like Kamala Harris or Stacey Abrams who are on the quote unquote rumored shortlist, right? So you're picking someone other than them. Even if right now polling shows that people don't have strong feelings one way or the other, or ambivalent, or it all comes out on the wash in terms of who people pick, what is the impact of that meta conversation? And one that will certainly be weaponized by the Trump campaign, right? And other disinformation outlets to try to deal with the problem that you point out that Joe Biden is doing less well as of right now than previous Democratic nominees have done. And, you know, it is complicated.

You know, you mentioned the political story about Stan Greenberg's polling, which pointed to Warren as the best option. Morning Consult did a poll this week that found Warren would have the biggest net positive impact on Biden's candidacy among all voters, but particularly among black voters and young voters, more so than Kamala Harris or Stacey abrams though it's fairly close with black voters um and you know also we have to recognize that elizabeth warren's name id name identification is greater than kamala harris or stacy abrams especially stacy abrams um but so you know first you have to understand like we don't know for sure that picking a woman of color in this scenario when you have elizabeth warren would attract more voters of color in this scenario when you have Elizabeth Warren would attract more voters of color to the ticket. We just don't know that as we're sitting here today just being pundits. I will say of all of the potential picks, you know, Politico has a

story this week quoting black activists who don't want to see Amy Klobuchar as the pick. And the Washington Post, Jonathan Capehart points to a 2019 headline from their paper that read, as a prosecutor in heavily white Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar declined to go after police involved in fatal encounters with black men. I do think with this happening in Minneapolis right now, the fact that Amy Klobuchar was the Hennepin County attorney for a long time, that is obviously going to raise some questions about her as a potential pick for, or could raise a lot of questions for her as a potential pick among a lot of voters of color. So I think it's unclear the effect it has on Warren versus Harris

versus Abrams, but I do wonder if it does have some effect on Amy Klobuchar. I mean, I just, this is my guess, but it's an educated guess just based on having known and worked with Joe Biden for a long time is his first and foremost test is going to be, are they ready? passes that test easily, right? That they could step, because just for, even if you didn't have a presidential nominee who was nearing 80 in a time of pandemic, you need to have someone who can step into the role. And I think the second one, which is closer really is who is the best governing partner, right? And that is going to take precedence over the politics of it with him for just, he's been vice president. He knows how important it is to have someone you can work with. The relationship with Barack Obama was so critical to him and his experience there and the contribution they were able to make to

the country. And he's been around long enough to see how that works when they get along and when they don't get along. But this is an election. It is the most important election in history. The politics will matter some. I think it'll be secondary, but these are going to be close calls where people are going to look at all of these things. And there'll be no obvious choice, and you're going to have to make a gut because it's not a thing you can know in advance. Polling is not going to tell you who the right political choice is. It'll be how that choice is received. It'll be how that person performs on the campaign trail and how that person performs at the conventions and at the debate with Mike Pence. Yeah. Presumably Mike Pence is allowed to attend. All I can do is guide you. Just ask John McCain. All right. When we come back, we'll have my conversation with Paul Tooze from Organizing Together 2020. I am joined today by the man who ran Iowa for the Obama campaign in 2008 and is now the head of Organizing Together 2020, the legendary Paul Tooze. Welcome to the pod. Well, I'm very excited to be with you. I think I did this once before with you guys back when Tommy was doing an Iowa series.

And it seems about every four years I'm popular for about two weeks when people start talking about Iowa. So it's good to be not just talking about Iowa. That's why we thought we'd bring you back. We don't want to pigeonhole you like that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you you so much i do appreciate that um so i want to dig into organizing but first i want to get your perspective on the overall state of the race where do you think things stand right now what are biden's biggest challenges and what are trump's biggest challenges? 30,000 foot view here. 30,000 foot. Well, listen, I'm optimistic.

And I think, you know, about our chances. And I do think people should be optimistic. You know, I think this is going to be an election that's obviously a referendum on Trump. And I think, you know, from all the polling you see and, you know, and just in conversations, you know, people aren't satisfied. They're not happy. They're, you know, they're, they want to make a different choice. So I, you know, I feel optimistic. I do think,

you know, it's just incumbent upon and, you know, apropos to this conversation that people do their part. You know, this isn't, you know, I think a lot of people, you know, sit around and say, hey, let's wait for this Biden campaign to get going. Let's get moving. You know, Biden's actually probably further ahead than where Obama was in the wait. You know, we didn't start really getting going till July, August in the general. So, you know, I think he's further ahead there. in the general. So I, you know, I think he's further ahead there, you know, but I think it's, it's incumbent upon all of us and, and what we can do to affect this election. You know, that's really what organizing is about. You know, that's where people come in on a day-to-day basis, talking to their neighbors, talking to their friends, you know, and not being afraid to have

that conversation and not being afraid to have an opinion. And so, you know, I feel, conversation and not being afraid to have an opinion. And so, you know, I feel, I actually do feel optimistic, you know, about our chances, not only with Biden, but, you know, for Democrats as a whole. And, you know, it's just a function of working hard and working from the heart and getting out there and communicating with people and listening to people. Well, let's talk about that. You know, a lot of our listeners are all signed up, ready to organize. But I think there's some other people. It to people. Well, let's talk about that. A lot of our listeners are all signed up, ready to organize. But I think there's some other people. It's great. But I think there's some other people out there who are thinking, all right, I'll vote. But Biden won the primary with the smallest field organization of anyone in the race. So maybe it doesn't make that much

of a difference. What do you say to that? Why is field, why is organizing so important? Well, I think you can ask Al Gore when he lost by, what, 320 votes. You can ask Hillary Clinton when she lost in, I think it was collective 80,000 votes in three states. Every vote matters. It really does. And organizing is important because I still believe,

and I think most people should believe this, that politics is still about people. You know, it's still about human interaction. It's still about how we treat one another. And I think if you care about your community, if you care about your country, anyone can be involved in politics and everyone should be involved. You know, no matter what your opinions are, you know, this country needs that. Your community needs that. And that should be your motivation. You know, I think most Americans do care about what's going on in their communities, what's going on in their neighborhoods, what's going on in their country. And, you know, being involved in political campaigns and volunteering and, you know, it's a good feeling. You know, I just have so many great memories of every campaign office I've ever walked in and you see, you know, volunteers coming in and out and they feel good. They feel good about their role. They feel good about the effort they're making on behalf of the things they care about.

a country when individual citizens just feel great about their role. And, you know, again, every vote matters and every vote matters. And, you know, one volunteer hour here or two volunteer hours there can be the difference. And oftentimes it has been the difference. So, you know, for the sake of your heart, go out and, you know, get involved and for the sake of your country and for the sake of talking to voters, get involved. I mean, you know, that certainly was the case in 2008. We always tell the story, but, you know, you were running Iowa. I was in Chicago. And there were times in the summer of 2007, in the fall of 2007, where the national media narrative was Obama's behind, Hillary's going to win, Obama has no chance. And we were all pretty down in the Chicago headquarters.

And then you come out to Iowa, you'd step into that. It was tough, right? And you'd step into that Des Moines office or one of the offices or one of the field offices in all the different counties in Iowa, and you'd feel this energy and enthusiasm that was just electric and it made you feel better about the race um because I think when you're on the ground talking to people doing that work it's such a different experience than sitting at a desk reading tweets reading the news looking at the polls all that bullshit it really is it sort of it does something to you yeah no listen and that's the thing you know i think you know i think especially you know even this is now

12 years later you know when i mean boy you see a new poll every five minutes it seems you know that that people can affect change right in front of them that you know obviously there's a bigger picture but you know i think most people want to know that what they're doing is making a difference. And that's very local, you know, um, all politics are local and, you know, your ability to affect change happens neighbor by neighbor, friend by friend, community by community. And I, you know, I think that's the attitude people have to have in order to, in order one, to satisfy their own hearts and why they're doing this and two, to affect change. Worry about and think about and focus on the things that are right in front of you. Let's talk about organizing

together 2020. You guys set this up before the primary was over to make sure that whoever won the nomination would have an organizing staff ready to hit the ground running. How was this informed by 2016? Yeah, so it was created, you know, Organizing 2020 was really created by, you know, a few national unions, NEA, SEIU, and asked me, and then they went and through the strategic victory fund. You know, it was, it was kind of this idea that, you know, the number one challenge of organizing is time. You know, it always is, you know, it's, it's decided, you know, I think, you know, back to 08, where Obama got good, and nobody really talks about this is, you know,

we had to run a campaign in 50 states before the general election. We had this is, you know, we had to run a campaign in 50 states before the general election. We had time to, you know, train volunteers, work with volunteers, get people energized, get people organized. So it's a function of time. So, you know, our whole mission here was, you know, we wanted to get organized early, number one, in these states. Get organizers trained up. Give volunteers a home. Give them something to do. And then third is to kind of create a little unity out there.

I think we have organizers from 13 different presidential campaigns. As they came off of their own campaigns, you know, as they, you know, came off of their own campaigns, you know, we hired them up and put them to work, you know, to develop some continuity. You know, so listen, it's an idea, you know, borne out by these unions that, you know, who know organizing better than anybody, that we just got to get ready and get going. And the general election will happen. Biden's in a good place. They're probably ahead of the curve. They're not behind.

And we just want people to be ready and give them something to do. So that's what we're doing. So you've always been someone who loves to send organizers out to knock on doors, to make phone calls. You believe in the team spirit of organizing, doing it side by side with other people. How are you thinking about ways to capture that spirit if we have to do much of this campaign from home because of the pandemic? Well, yeah, listen, I still think it's community. You know, it's still, you know, campaigns are community. You would just have to be a little more creative with things like Zoom and, you know, virtual offices and, you know, and getting people together as best they can in this situation.

thing when I first started in politics, you know, boy, that was a long time ago, John, you know, five years ago, three years ago. No, is, you know, back then, you know, the phone call, the phone was your weapon. You know, we would set up phone banks, and that was your way to communicate with voters. So in a way, while technology has advanced so much, I still think there's a lot of ways to talk to voters, you know, whether it be through a phone call, whether it be through text message, text messaging, you know, a lot of people communicate through Facebook and, and, you know, wherever you create content, and they go out and put their own personal touch on it. And, you know, so a volunteer, there's still a lot of things you can do to affect change. And so, you know, we've built out tools and platforms around all those things.

But it's still about community, and it's still about getting involved. And along the way, you meet a few people, and you enjoy your time. It's an invigorating experience. As you know, as you can attest to. I sure can. You know, we hear from a lot of people.

We're doing this Adopt-A-State program. People are adopting one of the six battleground states. And, you know, a lot of people say they're concerned about volunteering outside of their communities and maybe being perceived as an outsider. How do people avoid that if you're sort of calling into or reaching into another state? I think a couple things I'd say. One is always be respectful. You know, always be respectful to the voter you're talking to. Even, and respect starts with listening. You know, just listen to people.

I think we need more of that in our politics, not less. And, you know, I think, you know, people across the country, you know, they have different stories to tell. You know, but there's a theme that runs through it. They care about a lot of the same things, family and, and, uh, you know, their community and jobs and, and, you know, uh, their own security. But, you know, so start with, start with a proposition of respect, listen, and don't be afraid to tell your own story. You know, don't read from talking points, tell your own story. Why do you care? Why are you taking time to do this? Um, And if you say it in a respectful way, I think people listen. I do. And that's important.

So every voice matters. This is a country. We're not a collection of 50 states and thousands of communities. We're one country. And so I think people should feel empowered, whether you're from California or New York or Vermont or Wyoming to make a difference. And they can. So one of Biden's biggest challenges is getting young people out to vote, especially young people of color. The pandemic makes this even harder. You know, some college kids may not even be on campus this fall. even be on campus this fall. How can we organize in a way that gets young people excited to actively participate in this election and not be bystanders?

Listen, it starts with young people talking to young people. I think that, you know, sending me, maybe you could do it, sending me in to talk to young people, boy. But, you know, it's that. I'm on the edge at this point. Yeah, right? I think, but it is. Like, I think it's the idea that, you know, this next generation and leaders in there and people that want to be leaders in there need to take it upon themselves to realize

what's at stake in this election, to get their fellow citizens, younger citizens, engaged and active. And I think also there's onus on Biden, too, to speak to those issues. And I'm sure he will. So I think it starts with those two propositions. I think it's got to be young people talking to young people about what's at stake. And then Biden at some point, and I know he's already done this, really speaking to what they care about.

Because that'll get them you know yeah last question for you that i've been asking people uh what's keeping you up at night about this election and you can't say everything um i think participation is going to be the biggest thing um you know and i think you know at organizing 2020, what we're trying to do now is, you know, across these states, fortunately in our states, they're, you know, they're all have pretty good vote by mail rules. what their options are in voting, guiding them through the process. Folks like you and me and probably most of your listeners think about politics and campaigns 365 days a year. The normal American doesn't. We're not normal. Yeah, the normal American doesn't.

They may think about it three days before the election and maybe it's too late. So I think these phone calls and this volunteering that you're doing is important to educate people about their options and keep it in the front of their mind about, you know, what are my voting options. So that is what keeps me up at night is that um you know will our traditional folks show up will there be confusion in the process um and are we ready to handle that confusion paul twos organizing together 2020 uh really looking forward to working with you guys hey can i on this initiative can i give a shout out you sure can you gotta put this on the air so uh ashley william Williams is our training director. She's a great training director.

She's going to be guiding everybody through this. She's a big fan of your guys, listens all the time. So Ashley Williams will be handling all the training, and she's probably one of the best in the country. So people can feel good that when they get trained through us that they're going to be in good hands another reason to sign up Ashley Williams will be leading the training she's one of the best in the business you heard it here first uh twos good talking to you man take care thanks John say hi to the boys thanks to Paul twos for joining us today

and uh everyone have a great weekend we'll talk to you next week bye everyone Thanks to Paul Tooze for joining us today. And everyone have a great weekend. We'll talk to you next week. Bye, everyone. Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou, Caroline Reston, and Elisa Gutierrez for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Nar Melkonian, Yale Freed, and Milo Kim, who film and upload these episodes as videos every week.