Pod Save America - Bill Maher on Hating Donald Trump, the Far Left and 69ing

Episode Date: February 23, 2025

Bill Maher, the revered—and often reviled—political commentator, comedian, and host of the Club Random podcast and Real Time with Bill Maher, goes head to head with Lovett over wokeism, government fraud, and trans rights. A self-described liberal, Maher’s been hating on Democrats since before Joe Biden made it cool. He and Lovett debate whether Democrats have changed too much, the discourse around Israel and Gaza, and who should have a say over gender-affirming care. Is Maher peddling the right's propaganda, or is this the tough love Democrats need to face Trump 2.0?

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What are some relationship green flags? Those are positive actions or traits in your partner and loved ones. We hear about red flags often that we should avoid, but what do we focus more on looking for green flags in friends and partners? If you're not sure what they look like,

therapy is there to help you identify green flags, actively practice them in your relationships, and embody the green flag energy in yourself, whether you're dating, married, building a friendship, or just working on yourself. It's time to form relationships that love you back. Hey Tommy, what are some of my green flags to you? Boundless enthusiasm, hilarious, whip smart, sick body.

Oh wow, great hair, great hair, but the hair I bought, the hair, there is a doctor that gets a green flag for the hair. Well, Tommy, I is a doctor that gets a green flag for the hair. Well, Tommy, I just really like the cut of your jib. BetterHelp is fully online. It's helpful for learning positive coping skills, how to set boundaries, and empowers you to be the best version of yourself.

It isn't just for those who've experienced trauma. It's true, BetterHelp is fully online, making therapy affordable and convenient, serving over five million people worldwide. You can easily switch therapists anytime at no extra cost. You can access a diverse network with more than 30,000 credential therapists with a wide range of specialties.

Everybody needs therapy, especially you. Discover your relationship green flags with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash PSA to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash PSA. Welcome to Pond Save America. I'm Jon Lovett. We're up and running with our Sunday shows. These episodes are going to be coming out every other weekend. We'll give Jon, Tommy, Dan and me a chance to have deeper conversations with a range

of interesting people. My guest this week is television host, political commentator and standup comedian, Bill Maher. Welcome Bill. That's the audience cheering. Oh yeah, that's the huge, yeah. So what do you do if you have a guest who has no arms? Well, we do have boom mics. How do you, how did that, oh, then you just put it on.

We'd go to a boom mic. Could I get that? You want the boom mic? No, I'm kidding. I'm just fucking with you. No, it's an important, honestly, that's why you're here. No one's ever asked us that question before. But after an hour, doesn't your arm get tired

of holding the mic? I shouldn't say that I've been a standup committee in my whole life. All I do is stand on stage and hold the mic. You can switch hands. But it's different when you're standing. You don't hold the microphone. Yeah, I do.

So I'm sorry. You got this. Go ahead, ask me your hard-hitting questions. Stop interrupting. I started, all right, welcomed you. Okay, that's done. We like to start each episode with a land acknowledgement. We are on the land once occupied by Jeffrey Katzenberg and Quibi.

That's funny. I did it. I just did a special on HBO and, uh, I did a whole thing about land acknowledgement. And I mean, it is just the epitome of, and I see that at the recent DNC meeting, they still did it. Like talk about not getting it after the election laws. Yeah, I thought you might not like a land acknowledgement. No, I mean, they still actually did it for real.

Well, you know, teach your own. Yeah, I mean, keep going down that road and see where it leads you, but you know, it's just, people are not politically savvy. I don't feel in America, but they have, they, they know when you're full of shit and it's like, you know, land acknowledgement, either give it back or shut the fuck up.

Yeah. I think is what most people are thinking. Yeah. I thought it might touch off. It seems like it worked. All right. So now I want to start with this because I just I think is what most people are thinking. Yeah, I thought I might set you off. Seems like it worked. All right, so now I wanted to start with this

because I just realized that Politically Incorrect is about to be 30 years old. More, because it started in 93 and I think we're in 25. So it's 93? Yeah. Well, I remember watching it, it was on Comedy Central then it moved to ABC. Correct. Well, I remember watching it. It was on Comedy Central then it moved to ABC. Correct.

But I could only watch it because Comedy Central re-aired it in the afternoons. I didn't know that. And so I would, it has to be true. But I would come home from school. Wow. And I would watch it every day when I got home from school. Well, I did it for the kids.

It felt like that. It felt like that. it felt like that. I mean, some nights it did. Some nights it was just so ridiculous. Well, it was very, I actually was thinking about it, it was very formative for me, and I went back and I watched the first episode of Politically Incorrect. The very first one.

The very first episode. Who was on? Jerry Seinfeld. Right. And Jerry, you on Jerry Seinfeld. Right. And Jerry, you, you, you asked Jerry Seinfeld a, about a question about, uh, whether or not pedophiles should have to have signs on their lawns. And it gives you this look like I'm here as a fucking favor. I do jokes about corn flakes. What are you doing to me? That's hysterical. I don't remember. I remember Jerry, of course, such a great friend forever.

Great guy, never changed. Absolutely. And he was at, you know, his show was doing great. So it was a great favor. And I don't remember the question about the... But we didn't ask questions. We presented topics. On that old show, every question, I wrote the first season, I had wrote them all myself word for word.

Did we even have writers? I think we had a couple, but we had like, this is before the people look shit up on the internet. Like we had researchers who had to like go to the stacks or something. I don't know. It seems like it was from the middle ages, but we would just, I would present a provocative,

not saying things that I didn't believe or think should be discussed. I wasn't just doing it for the sake. And it would always end with, does anybody have a problem with that? And when we put out a book from the show, it was called, you know, the best of politically incorrect.

Does anybody have a problem with that? So like a pedophile stand on, what was it? They should stand on. Put a sign in their lawn, something to that effect. I mean, don't they kind of do that anyway now? I mean, don't you have to register? I think that's what this was about. It was about registering and people being,

it was about public shaming and who should be shamed and who shouldn't be shamed. It was very 90s. John, isn't it so fucking quaint that we lived in an era where that was the kind of problem, as opposed to the things, the shit show that's going on now and the things that are so much more existential, shall we say?

Not that it isn't an issue, but come on. No, there was something about it. And that's why I wanted to get to it. And we'll get to it, because Seinfeld is like, what the fuck am I doing here? And then Ed Rollins, who was Perot's campaign. Ed Rollins. He was on? Yes.

And it really put me back into a different time. But there is one moment where Seinfeld lights up because it was about polling and focus grouping and whether it was about polling and focus grouping and how, whether it was valuable or not valuable, and suddenly there really was an interesting moment. But it was- There was many interesting moments. What sort of backhanded uncompliment is that?

No, I'm not saying- Unbelievable. Take a compliment. I'm saying I'm watching the episode and all of a sudden the pilot, you suddenly see the magic that you were trying to get in this show. I wasn't saying it was the only moment,

I'm saying there was a moment amongst several. Okay, are you okay? Not really, but okay. Okay, fine, I don't care. Where all of a sudden you have Ed Rollins and you have Jerry Seinfeld talking about what they both know about, which is polling and focus grouping and where it works

and where it doesn't work. Right. What I was wondering is what you were trying to get out of having comedians and celebrities sitting across from politicians and experts. I always described it as a designed train wreck. That's why it was funny. And as you say, sometimes there was great

enlightenment from that. The idea was everyone in America votes. We all get to vote, whether we're Harvard educated, although a few people are that stupid, or, uh, you know, the lowliest, uh, mechanic who's, uh, only finished eighth grade or something. We all get to vote. We don't all know the same thing or come from

the same background, but this is a democracy. And let's pair the least likely people to ever be in the same room together at the same cocktail party and have them talk. And yeah, what was great about that show was that when it was good, like you said, there were moments that were really good, but even when it was bad,

it was like the bad was kinda good in its own. It's uncomfortable, it's interesting. Right. It really was, I really did watch it every day when I got home from school. Yeah. And. I mean, some nights it was so awful,

it was like you had to, you reveled in the awfulness. The, but there was, you know, you talk about how things have changed, and I wanna talk about how the media has changed and also how the parties have changed, but in terms of the media, there was an episode where, it's really interesting,

you brought on Sarah Silverman, and you brought on this. What? No, I'm just the, I mean, I love Sarah, and she's still a friend, but I mean, it's just funny to hear these names from the past. And I don't remember her on that show. I remember her on Real Time, but she was on. She was on, well, what was really interesting.

She must've been really young. She was, and it was, and you brought her on and an activist. He was an Asian American activist who was angry about a joke she told that used the word chink. I think that was Real Time. I don't think that was, no? No, it was politically incorrect.

Okay. I'm sure of it. And it was really important to you, they'd both been criticizing each other in public and gone back and forth. Well, can I give you a little of the history? Sarah made a joke. Look, it was a different era. I think she has since, Mia, culpilled about that.

She's gone back on a lot of stuff. You know, she says, she went more toward like, oh, no, I shouldn't have said that as opposed to some comics who were like, we've gotten too sensitive, that would be me. Right, yeah, clearly. Yeah, no, I get that. Yeah, and we have.

And I'm right about that. Sure, okay, that's easy. But you know, everybody has their truth. Most probably, she have thought about it. Just take it. Uh... Most surprised she have thought about it. Like, just take it, in the most generous sense, she thought about it and evolved on it. Even if we wouldn't do it today, do we have to go back and dig up the past

and yell at ourselves when, here's the thing, like, whatever it was back then, like, most people were okay with it. It wasn't mean-spirited. She got in trouble also once for a sketch she did, which was an anti-racist sketch. Mm-hmm. Okay, but we sort of glossed over nuance

at a certain point. And so, you know, I don't know if it was necessary to be like, I'm history's greatest monster because I did this. Like, no, I thought I was doing the right thing. And at the time, usually nobody else said anything. So it was obvious that's where the country was. Anyway, she did a joke with some sort of Asian reference.

I don't remember what it was. And the person from the Asian, you know. The media organization that was critical of the way Asian people were portrayed. Right, correct. He objected and so I guess I had them on to hash it out? Yes, and look, I think people evolve, I like, you know, they went back and like stopped airing

certain episodes of The Golden Girls and cut things out of certain shows, and I think that's ridiculous, right? Cause let's just, this was the past and it was different. Even though shows look modern and maybe we should be able to see those things. That's obvious, but I wanted to- The Golden Girls? There was a pretty racist episode of the Golden Girls,

but let's just, there was, but I think let people see it, who cares? I'm not talking about that. I wanna talk about this specific episode, for sure. And like when they're like putting warnings on Gone with the Wind, it's like Gone with the Wind sucks, but not because it's racist. It is racist, but that's not why it sucks.

It's awesome, it doesn't suck. Okay, but we'll get back to it. We'll get back to Gone with the Wind. We'll talk about movies at the end. I'm just, let's challenge our assumptions. But the reason I bring up the Sarah Silverman moment, who I love and think is an incredible comedian, and she's sharp in that debate as well,

is it was really important in that moment where you said, you know what, let's have the debate right here and have it in front of everybody and let people hash it out. And you talk about how things are different and what's striking is like you think about that moment and there wasn't public forums for people to have debates. There was television, there was radio and television, some newspaper op-eds, people could write a letter to the editor. But for the most part, political conversations on television weren't about or next to the political culture.

They were the political culture. And if you got people together and had the debate, it would, the 1,000 people that got to have an opinion on television would see it and it would impact them, right? And there was a, you could, you could really feel the impact of debate and we don't live in that world anymore. It's a very different world. We do on my show. Well, that's- I love doing that. I mean, and, and you're right, most shows don't live in that world anymore. It's a very different world. We do on my show. Well, that's-

I love doing that. I mean, and you're right, most shows don't do that. I mean, you don't see much debate on cable news. I mean, CNN has a panel, but you know, that guy who I, what did I call him? Lonely Scott? The one, Lonely Scott, what is his name? Yeah, I did.

Anyway- Lonely Scott Jennings, haven't we talked about? Yes, yes. Scott Jennings. It's like six people, Lonely Scott, what is his name? Yeah, I did. Anyway. Lonely Scott Jennings, isn't that what you're talking about? Yes, yes. Scott Jennings. It's like six people, and then after like they all, whatever they're gonna say, and usually I agree with those people, then Lonely Scott gets to talk.

But you know, I do like having an actual debate. I mean, this idea that they have some people that you shouldn't platform. You know, I mean, I've lost fans certainly, and even like people who were friends kind of, because they were so mad at me that I had on real time people like Ted Cruz and Bill Barr. Okay, he was the attorney general.

You know, I'm not gonna talk to this man? Yeah, we've talked about that here, and I think in the early years of this company, we were much more reluctant, in part because we were trying to, I think, be just a platform for progressive voices, but as we've grown, we've realized that we want to have more conservative voices on to challenge them

because we want to be at the center of that kind of a debate. And maybe be challenged. And maybe, and of course be challenged. And of course be challenged. But the reason. And I'm not one of them, you know, they think the far left thinks I am.

I, I, I, I put out a book and a standup special in the last six months, both to make the point and in great detail. You've changed, not me. Yeah. I want to, I want to come back to and in great detail. You've changed, not me. Yeah. I want to, I want to come back to that in a second. I want to stay on debate only because what I felt when I was watching those old episodes is a kind

of nostalgia for a culture where debate matters. Like you still do the kinds of debates you did back down there. You do have more kind of serious people as fewer. Correct. Christine O'Donnell popping up. Correct, that's the difference. Right.

It's not Carrot Top with Bob Dole. Well, there was another, on that episode where Sarah Silverman and this activist are talking, at what point I forgot he was even there, David Spade was sitting there in fucking silence and you turned to David Spade and you're like, so David Spade, what do you think?

And he's like, fuck you, Bill, how about that? I don't wanna be here, what am I doing here? I'm in Tommy Boy, so David Spade, what do you think? And he's like, fuck you, Bill. How about that? I don't wanna be here. What am I doing here? I'm in Tommy Boy. Why are you asking me this really hard question? That's always what was so, I mean, you said Seinfeld basically had the same reaction.

Like, what am I doing here? Yeah, but you know, when you drag people out of their comfort zone, it does produce a kind of real television that unfortunately, yeah, you don't get a lot and of course, you know, it's not everybody's cup of tea. Yeah, it used to exist more in the old, before they went live to tape, when like Carson was truly live and there were just things would go wrong, right?

No, Carson was not live. When there would be like moments early on in the early years and there were just, things would go wrong, right? There'd be. No, Carson was not live. When there would be like moments early on, in the early years, and there'd be, you got, you got like, just like drunks on the stage. And he's like, I gotta get outta here. Drunk. There was an episode where like,

I wanna say like Peter, what's his name? Peter Lawford. Peter Lawford, and two other people in a movie that we've all forgotten are on their promotional tour and they're just drunk. They're just drunk on that stage. I just don't think they thought it was that awful. And by the way, it's happened since then.

I don't know if you remember the Cheers finale. I'm not sure what year that would be. Cheers. But I remember that when they were all just blitzed. Blitzed to the gills. Yeah, it was good stuff. This is Leno hosting and they were just falling all over each other on the couch drooling and laughing.

And I mean, poor Jay was like he was not in on the private jokes between this cast, who were in an emotional state after doing this groundbreaking show for 10 years of whatever it was. And now they had their finale, and then they had their party. And now they're on with Jay. And they were drunk. So I don't think- I think they talk later about how the mistake was

there wasn't a meal. There needed to be food. Yeah, I mean, they were young and drunk. And it's funny. Drunk is funny. Drunk is funny. Yeah. But no, but-

I mean, of course it can be sad, but we don't have to always just dwell on the sad. Dean Martin was funny. Yeah. And he wasn't even really drunk. A lot of the times he was really drunk. There was a, no, I don't think he was. I think he, I think that was a big myth. You think?

Yes, he, yes, I think that was an act. Dean was like, he played golf and then he was in bed at nine. He was that guy. Maybe when he was younger, I don't know. Frank was a big drinker. Yeah, there was a, I sometimes think that like the reason there's such a focus on cancel culture is because it used to be more fun to be a celebrity.

Like you could drive your car through a plate glass window and like tip somebody 500 bucks and nobody heard about it. Yeah, Frank and Ava shot up Palm Springs once and it was just like. Just under the rug. Well, I mean, there's people do things today. I mean, Kanye, come on. Well, he's not exactly, we know about it. I know, but like he wasn't canceled for it. He did. He said Hitler was, I love Hitler and nobody pulled his Superbowl ad like three days later.

So it seems like you think cancel culture is needed. I'm just saying some people get away with shit that other people don't. It's very uneven. culture is needed. I'm just saying some people get away with shit that other people don't. It's very uneven. ["The Daily Show Theme"] Today's episode is sponsored by Acorns. Do you ever feel like you're not making

the most of your money? Yes. If you're leaving it all in savings, or if you're just spending it or leaving it in a checking account, you're definitely not making the most of your money. Acorns is a financial wellness app that makes it easy to start saving and investing for your future. You don't need to be an expert.

Acorns will recommend a diversified portfolio that matches you and your money goals. You don't need to be rich. Acorns lets you get started with the spare money you've got right now, even if all you've got is spare change. You can create an Acorns account and start investing in just five minutes. Financial wellness doesn't have to feel impossible. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track.

Basically Acorns does the hard part so you can give your money a chance to grow. Here's what I'd say to you guys. I remember when I left the administration, I had no savings, I had no investments, anything I didn't have a 401k or an IRA or anything. I just had the thrift savings from the government. The thrift savings from the government, I had no savings. I had no investments or anything. I didn't have a 401k or an IRA or anything. I just had the thrift savings from the government. Thrift savings from the government.

I had that too. And it felt really hard to do and it felt scary to open something. And then I did it and it was super easy. And this was a different service because it was a decade ago, but Acorns has made it exponentially easier. So what you got to do, you got to sign up for Acorns, you got to start saving now and you will be so, so

glad you did it later on when you retire because interest compounds and that is your friend. Sign up now and join the over 13 billion all-time customers who have already saved and invested over $22 billion with Acorns. Head to acorns.com slash crooked or download the Acorns app to get started. Paid non-client endorsement, compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier three compensation provided, investing involves risk. Acorns advisors, LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash crooked.

Where's your head on social media right now? What do you mean? Well, like is it, are you using it? You know, I feel conflicted about it. I think it's a corrupt force destroying the human soul, but I also get good recipes from it. Good recipes? Yeah, TikTok, get good recipes. There's a viral Turkish pasta I made.

Have you heard about the viral Turkish pasta? Yeah, no, I'm from a different generation and I got a shit ton of money. I got cooks and chefs and I don't need social media. I got assistance. I'm so glad that I'm that. Yeah, it sounds good. It's awesome.

It is. And it just seems like a bunch of hatred and vitriol. And yes, of course, can you learn things? I don't have enough time in the day to read and absorb the things I do wanna read read. And, you know, um, I want to read the New York Times, even though I, it's not the paper I grew up with and it's crazy slanted, but I also want to read Andrew Sullivan and I want to read the free

press and I'm a, I don't, I'd rather be in that world of smart people. I want to listen to your podcast and Sam Harris' podcast. You know, smart, engaging conversation, mostly from people who are not ideologically captured. That's what I want to immerse myself in. I don't want to immerse myself in that world. And I'm just very bad at technology.

I, it's not native to me because of when I grew up, I'm 70 basically. You're 70? Not really, but I'm saying that because it's next year and I can't, 69 is a funny bit in my special about that. When you're 69, it's just everybody just puts their elbow on your ribs like it's funny and it's just a terrible number.

So- Oh, because of the sexual position? That's my bit. Is it because of putting, uh, because you flip around and then it's head to genitals? Everyone like talks about it as if anyone has ever done it or enjoyed it or can do it. It's a multitasking thing that you can't do. We've all tried. I've tried.

It doesn't work. You know, if someone, you can't go down on a girl while she's sucking your dick. I just can't think about it. They're just too hard. Anyway, that's the point about that. So yes. I was going to get to 69 and later, but we've just covered it so that we can move on.

Yes. The point is like, I'm not native to a lot of this stuff and the more I, I mean, how many books does Jonathan Haidt have to put out about it? How many times do I have to have guests who talk about how, how awful and vitriolic it is and what it's doing to young kids? Why would I jump into this pool?

Right. No, that seems right. I mean, if there's one turd in the pool, bad enough, this just seems like a pool of turds. Yeah, I think that's right. I think you don't need to go there, especially with the chef, cause then you don't need the recipes, because I go for the recipes. I definitely don't need the recipes.

You should tell your chef about the viral Turkish pasta. I don't eat pasta. You don't eat pasta? No. Is that a keto thing? What are we eating? Well, we're not eating carbs, like not bread,

not pasta, not rice. Wow. I mean, occasionally, you know, I'm not a crazy person, but no, just I, I wouldn't want to keep that around the house or have them, not pasta, not rice. Wow. I mean, occasionally, you know, I'm not a crazy person, but no, just I wouldn't want to keep that around the house or have them, someone's gonna cook for me, they're gonna cook good, you know. I've said to her, look, I'll never get mad at you

if I don't like, if it's not an appealing dish, I'll only get mad at you if it's not healthy. And do you worry about losing touch? No, not at all. Really? Like what, should I be going to Ralph's and that would elucidate me somehow? Maybe.

Well, here's what I actually think. I do go to the supermarket once in a while. I do like to purposely see what's out there and see if there's food out there, especially that I'm not aware of that they, because I don't know, yes, you do have to do that, but I am not out of touch, no. Well, there's a lot of new kinds of Oreos.

They're doing new flavors all the time. Yeah, Oreos I wouldn't eat. I already made that decision about Oreos decades ago. No Oreos. That's too bad. Well, you know what? When you're 70, first of all, you're on a much shorter leash health-wise.

You gotta be very, you can stay exactly and live exactly as you always did. It's funny, when I was your age, I would have never thought I'd be like this at 70. I thought life would be completely different because that's how Americans presented. Like you're completely decrepit and you're like one foot in the grave.

And my father was, you know, he would go out to the basketball court, the court, the driveway, and shoot one basket and be like, oh, and he was 53 or something. It just doesn't have to be that way. I found out when I got there, you know. Of course I never got married, so that's a big difference. You know, you become like something different

and as opposed to just always staying the same. But you gotta get out there. Why? Well, just you gotta be out there. You gotta be single. You gotta be. Yes, I had the tiger. Yeah, you gotta stay fit. You gotta stay hot. You gotta stay hot.

You don't wanna be out. You do the best you can. That's all you can do. Because here's the thing, when you fall in love with somebody, you stop caring what they look like. But you gotta get through that first step. Did that happen to you?

Not yet, not yet. Thanks for asking. Obviously not. Look how good I look. Nothing I have to really worry about yet. Yeah, you look great. Oh, thanks for saying that. How old are you?

I am 42. That's, you look great for 42. I look great for 42. I'm a gay 42. You have a youthful look about you. Yeah, I don't think that what I do works if I get older. I don't think that's a good attitude to go into. Probably not.

No, I really don't. I think that's, I agree. No. No. And by the way, AI is going to fix all this. I hope so. Totally. I mean, there is a chance that even me at 70,

wink, wink, not quite, um, will not die. Like saying, because you could live to a hundred in 30 years. I'm, I can't imagine AI, which is working exponentially. What was that thing that Google just came up with that I just read this, that it figured out something that super computers before this

would have taken something like 10 septillion million years or whatever it was older than the time of the universe to figure out what now it did in five minutes. Right. They had that new quantum computer that I find intimidating. That's what I'm talking about. Yes.

The quantum computer. Yeah. Maybe that'll fix it. Well, there's that guy that's trying to seem young. You know that guy? I had him on my podcast. He seems out of his fucking gourd. He's not. I'd rather live to a hundred,

I would rather die at 70 living the way I live than live to 250 the way he lives. You wouldn't say that when you're 69, first of all. Nice. And also, and also he's not crazy, although he is a little crazy. And I said the same thing. I said, I said, Brian, and he's a sweet guy.

I liked him a lot. I said, Brian, like, Brian, and he's a sweet guy. I liked them a lot. I said, Brian, like, okay, so he's 46, but he's like, uh, chronologically he's 37. I said, so you go to bed at eight 30, you never eat anything except like these fucking pebbles or whatever the fuck you're eating. He's eating kind of, kind of human chow, like a kibble. I eat pretty strictly, but I still enjoy eating and you can do that. And goes to bed at eight 30 and all this. I said, all this to shave nine years off.

I said, you know, people think I look a little, a little younger than my age. So like I apparently shaved six or seven years off by smoking pot and not getting married and drinking too much when I was younger. So like, what's the point? Well, also, you know, all the studies also show that like the mo what's, what's the key to longevity. It's happy, close relationships.

It's a bunch of like social, uh, uh, things. And I gotta say it, who wants to hang out with the guy that's like, I gotta go to bed. It's eight 30. Got to get him in the morning and eat my kibble. You know, it's not like a friend. It's not like a great friend situation. You know what I'm saying? Let me say this in his defense.

First of all, I'm glad he's my new best friend because this guy is working more than anybody else to find out where the cutting edge is on keeping us, uh, healthy. He gave me some of the stuff that he uses and sells and some of this, much of it, I've been doing my own self for quite a while. I don't think most people take glutathione,

but I get it and I had it and he uses it. So I'm, but he's going to tell me he's going to hit me to everything I need to know that I can do not in the levels that he does it. But, and also here, listen to this. I said, you know, we're leaving and I have my podcast in my, where I party and it's, it's, it's whole, it's a different house. I wouldn't party in my own house knowing me.

What a life. But, uh, so, and he's in touch and I am in touch and I said, you know, it's too bad, Brian, you know, I have parties here. Sometimes the cameras are off and we just enjoy it. I had this for 20 years and I partied here before we made it into a podcast studio. It's too bad you go to bed at 830. It doesn't usually get going till 10 or 11.

And he said, here's what I'll do. I'll go to bed, I'll get my REM sleep. So you need REM sleep and deep sleep. And then I'll wake up from my REM sleep. I'll come here for an hour and a half and party with you and I'll go back and I'll get my deep sleep. And I thought that's a guy who's willing

to kind of bend a little. Sure. Yeah, yeah. To get up from your REM sleep, party with me and go back to your deep sleep. And he's having a tea or something, I assume. Well, he's definitely not going to be drinking and smoking with him. Yeah, sounds like a great hang.

No, said the same thing. But in his defense. You know you're all gonna die. But in his defense, he talks about his amazing erections. Yeah, yes. A lot. Yes, first of all, good to hear that that's happening in person as well, because he also talks

about his son's erections. Yeah, right. I know, I know son's erections. Yeah. Right. I know. I know. This got weird. I'm sorry. I gotta go. So now you talked about you not really changing

and that actually was- Well, politically. Politically. No, I'm not, no, politically. Well, that's what I took away going back and watching some of the original shows, which is that like, you say that your politics hasn't changed, that the right went where it went,

and the left went super woke, and that you're the same. And it's like, how often are you using, it's not you, it's me when you're breaking up with somebody. That's a good question, that's funny. Are you serious about that? Take a political answer or a human answer. Well, I'm not gonna get very specific about this because this is like personal life stuff and I like to keep that opaque.

But, you know, look, if somebody is my age, and we remember what that is because it keeps coming up, and they've never been married. And you've never been married. Right. It's either for one or two main reasons. Either they don't like girls, or they like them a lot. Okay. I'm just gonna keep it vague like that.

So let's talk about politics. Happy to leave that vague. We got a lot of 69 talk earlier. And there's nothing vague like that. So let's talk about politics. Happy to leave that vague. We got a lot of 69 talk earlier. And there's nothing wrong with that. And there's nothing wrong with that. Why can't everybody, you know, it's so funny, if I came out as gay tomorrow, the whole town here in Hollywood would be like,

oh my God, that's the greatest thing in the world. Because we all should just be who we are. I was born that way. Remember when that was, yeah, this is how I was born. That's how I was drawn. This is what I want. I never wanted to get married. Um, I never thought it worked.

And what I mostly see is that it, when it does, it, even when it works, it works at what I consider a tremendous price. I mean, you said longevity. What did you say before? It was like. Having healthy relationships contributes to longevity. So does sex, which is sometimes in confrontation with healthy relationship.

With a long term relationship where the love is deep, it's very hard to keep that going with the sex part going. Not with that attitude. I mean it's what I wish that it was just attitude that could solve it but but every marriage in the world will tell you that it's not just attitude. Pod Save America is brought to you by Quince. Elevating your style used to mean breaking the bank but with Quince you can get high-end versatile pieces

at prices you can actually afford. Now you can upgrade your style by snagging killer luxury essentials that sync with your vibe and wallet. Quince has all the must haves like Mongolian cashmere crewneck sweaters from $50, iconic 100% leather jackets and versatile flow-knit active wear.

The best part of all, Quince items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands by partnering directly with top factories. Quinn's cuts out the cost of the middleman and passes the savings on to us. And Quinn's only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing processes,

along with premium fabrics and finishes. We love that. I love Quinn's. I have great sheets from Quinn's, I have great sweats from Quinn's, super comfortable, really well-made. It's really affordable. It's a great option. You should just open up a Quinn's tab, you know?

You're darting around the internet, trying to fill the time between dinner and fitful sleep. So open up a tab, put Quinn's on that tab and see what it has to offer. What are you, too busy? Everyone's pretending to be busy. The whole, the greatest myth in the history of the society is that everyone's busy.

There are busy people, you may be one of them, and if you are, I'm not talking about history of the society is that everyone's busy. There are busy people. You may be one of them. And if you are, I'm not talking about you, but how could everybody be so busy while also having six hours of screen time? The point is, Quince has good stuff. Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to quince.com slash crooked.

I'm so busy. Let me see your phone. Let me see your phone. You looked at Instagram for two hours. quince.com slash crooked for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash crooked to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

Quince.com slash crooked. Onto the politics. You brought it up. I did bring it up and I know that and everyone's hearing they know that they know that I brought it up People like this. They like people. They're like politics small ethics. Yeah, let's keep it loose that we're keeping it loose It's bill we don't feel like fucking always and we can go right to the politics because that's what I love about Podcasting. Yeah, we can do whatever we want. There's no, we can, we'd. Look at all the cards you have there. Yeah.

There's like, do we have to get all through all those before I can go? No, no, I'll skip. I'll skip. Don't, hey, don't worry, we'll skip through some. Cause these are, that's a lot of cards. Let's see, let's see. There's one later that just says trans. Your staff, your staff makes these for you?

Yes, they do. They do a great job. They're all, they're right over there. It's a great team. Yeah. It's a great team. So let's talk about how the Republicans have changed. You said in your special, Trump got the White House again,

but he's not gonna get your mind. How's that resolution holding up? Not that well. I gotta say it lasted. I also said I wouldn't pre-hate anything, which is true. I didn't pre-hate, but boy, does the hate come around quickly. I mean, has it been only a month?

Yeah. It's been one month. One month. One month. I mean, has it been only a month? Yeah. It's been one month. One month. One month. I mean, I didn't think it could, some of the things, and there are things that other things, I made a list. Like here's what I already hate, here's things I don't hate yet.

I can, I mean, there are things that like, the idea that Gaza could be Dubai instead of this hell hole that it's been. Other people have suggested that by way of us taking it over, no, you know, starting a new American empire, no, this insanity of Zelensky is the dictator. And the- Outrageous.

I mean, opposite day kind of shit with the Western Alliance. I mean, there's a whole, it's just, yeah. So that resolution is being battered already. Well, it is, I mean, look, there are some people that claim that they're not surprised by how bad it's been so far. I find that hard to believe because in all the, if we knew in October that

the planes were going to start bumping, we would have maybe said something, right? Like I don't, nobody was like, Hey, and then we may invade Panama. Like that wasn't anything that and Kamala Harris wasn't out there being like, and don't forget we might invade Panama. Now that and Canada that that's, that shit all came up. Yeah. I think after the election was won, I don't think it was even strategic.

I think you give Trump sometimes too much credit for playing four dimensional chess, and it's no, he just happened to think of it then. I really, I don't think he planned, I'm gonna spring this after the election. It's no, like the last guy he talked to said some shit about Canada, and he was like, let's take it over.

But a lot of this does seem to like, you know, the fucking, I think, there's not just a lack of knowledge, but there's a disdain for knowledge that leads, whether it's Elon wandering around government bureaucracies, he knows nothing about cutting at random and then discovering that, oh, that person was working on bird flu, we should probably get him back, or Trump sprouting off about the Middle East.

There's a lack of appreciation for expertise and nuance, which is very, very fascist, very authoritarian, which is to say, you know what? Yeah, democracy is sometimes slow and complicated, but there's a reason, and there are good reasons. There's a good reason that uh, that this is not how we've done things in the past. There is value to stability.

There's value to the slow and sometimes frustrating work of compromise and changing the government. That is my biggest complaint about Trump is that he does not care about how the American system works or even care to learn how it works. That in his view, it's just like they elected me. I'm the leader. I talked to other leaders.

I'm the leader. Everything else is sort of just background noise, Congress or whatever. I mean, some of these things he's done, he has the Congress, he has a Republican Congress. He could do it through Congress. No, he just does it by executive order, but there's always like, you know, a seed of truth in the other side.

Yes, government should be slow, but you know, the frog in the pot analogy that we use with global warming, which I still think is true. It's the slow. I'm not sure that that isn't also the case with a government that ever grows bigger. Nothing is ever canceled, the debt, I mean, we've been talking about it since Ross Perot. At some point, and it seems like, well, you know, we keep talking about it,

but nothing ever happens. I feel like at some point, just like with global warming, something catastrophic is gonna happen. That it's the biggest thing now. And so, like, again, do I hate the idea of someone going through the government? I mean, Al Gore wanted to do it, and they didn't do it

well, but of course, the way he does it. First of all, just like you said, with a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel. You can picture a way they could have done it. He could have just shut up for three months while he audited it and then come out with findings That's not the way these people work. That's the bad part of them the instinct to do it the instinct to like Have Gaza not be what it always has been

And and by the way some of this kind of works because now you see that five different countries, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, Egypt, they're all they all said okay you know what Trump's gonna jump in and turn it into a golf course okay we're working on a plan. Yeah somebody has to have a plan for Gaza and the idea that in the past, these Arab countries that surround Palestine or the Syrian civil war and wouldn't take any refugees and just wouldn't seem to be wanting to get involved at all to the people who they claim are their brethren and who are the, did a million Syrians really fit better in Germany than they would have in Saudi Arabia?

There's a, uh, there was a congressman, Tom Malinowski, I think, and he, he said this on the bulwark and it stuck with me, and he said that, uh, Trump understands our power, but not our values, and Joe Biden understands our values, but not our power. And it really stuck with me because, uh, there are, there are moments where, yeah, Nixon playing crazy,

Donald Trump says things that change the contours of a debate, but he does it by proposing ethnic cleansing and some of those ghastly policies that any American president has ever talked about. You talk about, yeah, we need to reform the government. Yeah, Barack Obama wanted to reform the government, stupidly try to do it through Congress,

big mistake that was, but you talk about, oh, we need to do some of these things, we're worried about the deficit. We know what the source of the deficit is, we know. It's actually not. The debt. The debt, we know the source of the debt, we know the source of the deficit.

The number of federal workers has not increased as a share of the population, that's static. So there's not some big behemoth of federal workers has not increased as a share of the population. That's static. So there's not some big behemoth of federal workers. It's lower than it was in the 90s as a share. No, I don't think workers is the main problem. The main problem is as the budget office put out, we, there's, they said between 236 and 521 billion. Billion.

Right, and what is the source of that? There's four drivers. Of fraud. Well, no, it's not fraud. The source is- Well, just stuff that, monies that's stolen, basically. The source of our deficit and debt are the tax cuts, the Bush tax cuts, the Trump tax cuts,

the cost of Medicare, the cost of Medicaid, the cost of Social Security, and the cost of the military. That's what drives the cost, that's it. Then there's cuts to be made and fraud to be found, for sure, but that's the cost. Yeah, I didn't say this was like the number one issue of our time, but do I think that $236 billion at the low end each year, just going out the door to fraudsters and thieves is something we should

live with and just accept? I don't. Of course not. So the instinct to do something about it, and again, it's all nullified when they do it horribly, which he did. But the part of this too is it's not, obviously they have, they don't really respect debate,

right? Like Donald Trump isn't interested or respectful of debate. Nor does he need it anymore because he won. And I mean, in the past, I mean, he did have to like show up to debate. He debated Harris. He, uh, he, he, he debated Joe Biden. Um, he debated.

Tried to kill him with COVID. Remember? Like three days later, like, yeah, I had a positive test. Whoops. It's like, you tried to fucking kill Joe Biden. Again, I think you're giving him too much credit.

I just think he didn't think about it. Um, I think he tried to fucking kill Joe Biden. Again, I think you're giving him too much credit. I just think he didn't think about it. Um, I think he wanted to run against Joe Biden. Anyway, he shouldn't have, he lost. Um, and he wouldn't admit that, which is my biggest problem with him. But, but you host a show that's about the value of debate and one of the two sides no longer, they'll use a debate when it's useful.

They'll use politics, normal politics when it's useful, but they'll cast it aside, right? They'll go through Congress when they can, they'll ignore a debate when it's useful. They'll use politics, normal politics when it's useful, but they'll cast it aside, right? They'll go through Congress when they can. They'll ignore it when they can't. They'll come on your show and make a case when they can, but they'll say, uh, you're a, an evil Marxist and all should be ignored when it's not useful. That's really dangerous.

And I, and so yeah. Yeah. I agree. The speech that Vance made to the Germans, not the part about the semi Nazi party, but the part about free speech was very valid in my view. They have gone to places in Germany and in England now with free speech that I don't want to

live in that country. I mean, did you see the 60 minutes piece on Germany last week? I didn't. Really? A 60 minutes like too old hat for you. I just say, you know, I, I, I catch it now and again, but I'm not like, I'm not, and I'm not

like click, click, click. I'm not like waiting for the sound every Sunday like I used to when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I watched it every Sunday. Really? It wasn't a cool kid. It was a lot of, it was a lot of Bill Maher in 60 Minutes

and wondering if I was going to get invited to prom. The answer, I was not. Okay, let's get on to yours next, Larry. Okay, so, but they did a piece and I found it chilling. Now, of course, Vance's thing about free speech is he has no grounding to stand on because Trump is suing 60 minutes. 60 minutes for the crime of editing an interview.

And he's suing an Iowa newspaper for putting out a poll he didn't like. You know how many presidents had lawsuits before him? None. Presidents don't sue people. You don't have to. He's doing it. So they don't have a leg to stand on there. And as far as like canceling elections, I mean, that was the first I heard about Romania

canceled the election. I'd have to do more research on that, but yeah, I don't think it's a great idea to cancel elections, but of course that's what they tried to do and he still has admitted he lost the one in 2020. Okay. But the idea that in Germany,

they can knock on your door because you insulted somebody. And they use the example of pimmel. Yes, I said it. What did you say, pimmel? Pimmel, apparently it's the German word for calling somebody a dick. Oh. And you can get arrested for that,

or they'll take your phone. And the UK also has arrested, I think, people for just insulting basically or like Islamophobia. Well, you know, one person's Islamophobia is another person's just talking plainly and honestly about Islam. Can I not do that? If I have any critique of Islam, I saw you roll your eyes. Really? There's no. I didn't roll your eyes, really, there's no. I didn't roll my eyes.

Oh, okay. I'm more thinking, I'm more just like, we're not in Germany, we're here. I know. They have their problems, famously. Right, but we don't care about other people's problems and sometimes those problems don't come here and we shouldn't comment on them?

No, no, of course, but I guess I just, we have a lot of problems in America. We've got the vice president going to Europe to complain about sort of German social dynamics. And it's like, okay, I mean, this is about a larger project of the right. Free speech is kind of a big thing, and it should be to you especially.

Of course. You make your living doing it. Of course, of course, but as you said, these are people that are right now in our own country attacking free speech every day. So I take it a bit disingenuously when JD Vance is in Germany. I just said that. I know, I agree with you.

That's why I'm rolling my eyes. I'm rolling my eyes at the situation, Bill. Okay. But hey, look, I'm not trying to be a pimmel. It's fucking pimmel over here. But I mean, that is chilling. That is very chilling. And it's funny because some of these places are, you know, Canada, New Zealand, they're, they're,

they have a woke quotient that exceeded ours. We're going to take a quick break. But before we do that, a reminder that during Black History Month, Vote Save America is supporting black led organizations and candidates of color through our anxiety relief program. One candidate is Kimberly Pope Adams, who's running for a Virginia state house seat this

year, a critical opportunity to expand the Democrats slim one seat majority. Your recurring donation in any amount helps build progressive power for 2025 and beyond. Join us and make an impact at vote save America dot com slash donate paid for by vote save America vote save America dot com not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee votes and beyond, join us and make an impact at votesaveamerica.com slash donate, paid for by Vote Save America. Vote saveamerica.com, not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee, votesaveamerica.com. ["Vote Save America"] Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix.

I love my Helix mattress. It is incredibly comfortable. It's in our guest bedroom. My mom just visited. Again, she ranted and raved about how comfortable the bed was. And you know what else was great about my Helix mattress? When we ordered it, it showed up at the house.

Super easy, unpack it, it's there, you're done. How will you know which Helix mattress works best for you and your body? You take the Helix sleep quiz and you find your perfect mattress in under two minutes. I took the quiz and I was matched with a Dawn Luxe because I wanted something that was firm. I'm a stomach sleeper, so it all just worked out.

The Helix lineup offers 20 unique mattresses, including the award-winning Luxe and Ultra Premium Elite collections. Helix Plus is a mattress designed for big and tall sleepers. Helix Kids is a mattress designed for growing bodies endorsed by child sleep experts. Helix knows there's no better way to test out a new mattress than by sleeping on it in your own home. That's why they offer a 100 night trial and a 10 to 15 year

warranty to try out your new Helix mattress. Plus your personalized mattress is shipped straight to your door free of charge. Go to helixsleep.com slash crooked for 27% off site-wide. That's helixsleep.com slash crooked for 27% off site-wide. This is their best offer, not 25%, 27%, exclusive to our listeners and only available by visiting helixsleep.com slash crooked. So let's talk about our woke question a little bit. Let's talk about the woke mob.

You say that the Republicans went the way they went and the Democrats went the way they went and you're still right where you were. Is it just, and I don't mean this, and I'm genuinely asking, is it really just the social questions? I mean, it's not about the Inflation Reduction Act and monetary policy when you say the Democrats.

It's just about- I mean, it's like about like the inflation reduction act and like monetary policy when you see the damage. It's just about. I mean, it's like, if you name so many, I can name so many issues where I will give you what the lib, the old school liberal, which is what I mostly align with position was, although even I can show you from back in the politically incorrect days, places where I was with somebody who would think more conservatively on certain things.

I was always hard to pin down and that's the way I like it. I, everything is, I don't want to be captured ideologically, but mostly that's what I was. Let's take, we're talking about Israel. What has been the old school liberal position forever on Israel, two state solution. Right. That is not the position of the woke.

Their position is from the river to the sea. It's not the position of the far left. Excuse me. Right. From the river to the sea. That's their position. That's what they're chanting on campus. That's the woke position. And it, it goes a lot further than just the kids on campus.

That is not the two state solution. That is not the two-state solution. That is, I don't know, the Jews moved to Greenland? I'm not sure what it is, and I don't think they think it through, because they're living in this world, as many people have pointed out, of oppressor and oppressed. They don't really think past that.

The Jews in Israel, I mean, they talk about them like they have no standing in that country when actually they're the Indians. Uh, okay. But they've been always from 1947 on. Now, of course, you leave a deal on the table for 75 years, people do get a little tired of, of having the deal not taken, but traditionally

Israel has tried to make that happen for a very long time. It accepted the idea of a partition and a two-state solution, and the other side never did and somehow the woke found themselves. They do this all the time. They're so progressive that they do things that are completely anti-progressive. Yes, let's align with the people who give women no rights because we're the liberal people. Let's align with the river to the sea, no,

so again, I'm where it always was, two state solution. Other people have gone to a different place. There's always been a center, a center left and a left that's always been the case. There were things that the Vietnam protesters said that was anathema to what was mainstream for Democrats at the time. But put aside the specific of the issue.

Joe Biden was for a two-state solution. Kamala Harris was for a two-state solution. Most mainstream Democrats are for a two-state solution. Donald Trump has embraced Benjamin Netanyahu and no two-state solution, Most mainstream Democrats are for a two-state solution. Donald Trump has embraced Benjamin Netanyahu and no two-state solution, no deal on the table. I agree, but that's not what we were talking about. But what I'm trying to understand is- To always bring in Trump.

Well, I'm not trying to bring in Trump. Let's just stick with it. We're gonna agree that we don't like Trump. Then great, ask and answer, ask and answer. But my question is then about- But you're not addressing the question that you find more difficult to answer. What is the question?

Which is what I put to you're not addressing the question that you find more difficult to answer. What is the question? Which is what I put to you. It's like the woke position, and it's again, not just kids on campus. I could quote you things from like, you know who PAN is? The organization, PEN. Yeah, they had to withdraw an invitation, right?

That's the... It's a free speech organization that doesn't understand free speech. That same with the ACLU in some cases. The reason I, so, Paz, say America, I've taken a lot of shit from, for what I've said about Israel, my belief in a two-state solution,

my horror at what Benjamin Netanyahu has done, but my belief that we ought to be critical of Israel, not just because of what it has done in Gaza, and not just what it has done to the Palestinians, but because it is not in the interest of Israel to create the conditions that they're creating. I'm not what you would call woke on this topic. But neither are- More woke than me.

But not what elected Democrats are saying, which I think represent the people that would ultimately be wielding power. So are there issues where you see which I think represent the people that would ultimately be wielding power. Are there issues where you see the mainstream Democrats, elected figures, not people on college campuses or organizations that have moved left because they're captured by whatever lefty part of their staff or whatever? I know where you're going and I agree mostly, which is that the democratic politician is generally not a crazy person. The crazy, if you talk about crazies, I used to say the difference between the

parties is that the Republicans have found a place for their crazies. Unfortunately, that place is elected government and it's kind of true. Like there's no equivalent quite of Marjorie Taylor Green on the left, although there are people like Elon Omar and AOC who I don't agree with on a lot of stuff and I think are crazy on a lot of stuff and say things that are real eye rolls. Fair enough, I don't agree with that.

But I just don't. But the- I'm not saying they're, I just said they're not as bad but they are eye rolly, absolutely. They're things you disagree with. And I disagree with and they're, I just said they're not as bad, but they are eye-rolly, absolutely. There are things you disagree with. And I disagree with and also just, you know, I mean, it's one thing to be a, have interest in another country. It's another thing to sort of be the Palestinian

representative in the Congress, as opposed to representing Michigan. Yeah, well, maybe she feels an obligation, a moral obligation that the best way that she can represent her values is to be this one voice. But she's in the American government. Right. There's 430, there's 434 other members of the house.

So one should be from Palestine? I'm not saying one should be from Palestine. I'm saying that she can in an important debate. Well, it's what it seems like and what it is. She's obviously representing her constituents. She has a lot of Palestinian constituents, but also feeling like that is a role that she can play in an important debate,

that she is not just a member of Congress for one district, but she is representing a point of view that she doesn't feel like is often represented. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, even when, by the way, I have been extremely critical of what she has said. But back to the two elected Democrats, I think the reason I'm bringing this up

is sometimes I feel like you have Democrats, there is an entire Republican apparatus that exists to lift up the dumbest, most extreme, campus professors, organizations, also mainstream politicians who say something stupid that comes off terribly, and have that represent Democrats, and that it actually has an impact, and then we end up in a, yeah, I'm just, do you think that's true? that comes off terribly and have that represent Democrats

and that it actually has an impact. And then we end up in a, yeah, I'm just, do you think that's true? I think it's true, but I also think it's their obligation to squawk back at those people and they don't do it enough. To your point, which I think is correct about the mainstream democratic politician, take something like defund the police.

The Republicans thought they could catch the Democrats on that and they put it up to a vote. I don't remember what the exact vote was or what the bill was. They didn't get any, I think they got one. Like the Democratic politician did not take the bait on defund the police. And yet, the public, if you just ask the man

on the street, probably thinks that a lot of Democratic politicians did sign on to that. Yeah. So that's a good example of something that was put out there by, like you say, organizations and the fringe and college professors and people in the media. But did the Democratic congressmen

from your district sign on to that? No, they did not, at least not in a bill. So, but you know, they'll put up a quote from Kamala Harris at the time in 2020 that it makes it look that, and people did go overboard in 2020. Okay, so that's the problem, is that the Democratic politician

did not make it clear to the voter Yeah, we're not for defunding the police We think that's stupid the police are important and they're especially important in neighborhoods with a lot of people of color Well, so who did not want to defund the police? So I I largely agree with that But I think sometimes we lay the blame at the feet of Democrats for two reasons. One, there's bias in the media, but one of the ways the media is biased

is that it treats Democrats as the protagonist and Republicans as the antagonist. So Democrats have agency, they're people you can reach, they're people you can persuade, they're people you believe will try to do the right thing, and they're people that'll actually respond to you. Wait, are you saying they are or that's how they're portrayed?

I think that's how they, I think when people feel that there's a liberal bias and a lot of mainstream coverage, one of the manifestations of it is that they are treated like the protagonist. Republicans are, if not villains, they're kind of other and removed. Correct, yes. And Democrats are meant to be the people that respond.

In the New York Times, it's like assumed we are the good people. We are the good people who know the right answers to everything and they are the people who are not good. Yes, that assumption and that attitude is something that very much fosters resentment and I don't blame the people. Like I always say, you can hate Trump,

you can't hate everybody who voted for him, it's half the country. But one of the things that I- And that's a lot of the reason why they do. Well, one of the other things it does though, is it means Republicans aren't held as much accountable for their own decisions. Not at all.

And I think part of it too, the other piece of it, is that people are just uncomfortable with saying, hold on a second. Yeah, Democrats should do a better job of tamping down misinformation and lies, but we're drowning in it. We're drowning in it. Yeah, I wish Democrats were better at pushing back

against this bullshit, but we're kind of asking them to solve for a society problem. You got like Jerry Connolly as the minority leader in this House committee raising his hand to beg Nancy Mace to stop saying a slur, and it's like, we can't win a fight that way. We're not gonna be able to, like, these people don't care what you have to say.

They want the fight. They want you to yell at them for saying the wrong thing. They don't care what you have to say about any of this. Yeah, and don't take debate. I mean, that's what a lot of Democrats are coming around to. I think I was talking about this on my show last Friday about, wasn't it, uh, you know, people you've probably worked with, I think David Axelrod and somebody else like that said, um, on USA.

Oh, I know we had on a Congressman Ryan. And I was quoting Axelrod and somebody else who said, you know, on USAID, don't make, don't, that's not a hill I'm going to die on. I think that was exactly. And I just read a list of things to Congressman Ryan, who I think is going to run for governor of Ohio saying, tell me what else is a hill you will or won't die on. That's what the Democrats, I think, should be talking about with each other. What are the hills we're going to die on and what are the hills we're not? And it was kind of interesting to hear his response to this list. Yeah. And I think there are, like, those are the political questions, the strategic questions we have to ask, but I think it's also worth saying, hold on a second. The Trump administration is illegally shutting down

a government agency that is our counterweight to China around the world. Yeah, true. And we all kind of understand that it's hard to tell people why it's important and nobody's gonna understand is you gotta let that one go. I made that point. I said, what's about leadership?

What about saying the people aren't here and it's our duty to that as politics. That's what we're supposed to do is lead them to a place. Cause the Republicans never shrink from leading people to a place where the people aren't that never intimidates them. The people were for a public option for a very

long time with the healthcare debate. And they were like, yeah, we had 20 points in the polls. We could flip that. So there is that argument, but you know what? Do you want to win another election? Is there even going to be another election? I mean, that was my original thing about Trump. When everyone was saying I was crazy, he doesn't con...

I said, he's never going to get seated in an election. I just feel like that we probably have already crossed the Rubicon on this. I just don't see this crowd ever really giving up power because they really believe in their bones. And again, I could go through a lot of things that make me understand why they think that way, although I'm not with them of course on it,

but they think that the left is so crazy and so dangerous, and some of their ideas are so aggressively anti-common sense, and they are. They think that it is their duty to preserve power, to just not ever let those people near the levers of power because it's just too crazy. Yeah, it's so dangerous. That is dangerous.

That is what they say they believe. But come on, Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and Akeem Jeffries and Kamala Harris, these are mainstream figures that are not dangerous at all. They have persuaded, they're lying to themselves, persuading themselves to believe that Democrats pose a threat because it is part of the project of denying the legitimacy of democratic politics in full. Okay, well, we could argue about a lot of issues there, but I'm sorry. Joe Biden, I think never stood up to the far,

far fringe of his party from, from day one. He was just like too feeble, too old. These people are too mean, too powerful. I don't want to even have the fight. What was something he did, but like, I'm not, I'm not, what's something he did that you- I mean, like, like, like we are an outlier in the trans.

So let's talk about that. With, with other countries. I mean, the UK, the Nordic countries all pulled back on that as far as like puberty blockers and, and operations for kids under 18, letting kids, children self-diagnose, keeping it from parents. All this stuff has gone on and still goes on in America. If it's something like on and still goes on in America.

If it's something like that and you're a parent, which I am not, and I'm glad I'm not, that issue is a lot closer to home to you than Ukraine. Ukraine, I didn't even know where it was five years ago, and now I care more about that than this issue. That kind of stuff. I wanna talk about the transition. Let's talk about it, but before we do,

are there other, that's the one people come to. Is there another example in your mind of Joe Biden that somehow was super woke to the- DEI, race. I mean, they put that in every department immediately. Like day one, that was the most important thing. And now you see a lot of corporations pulling back from it. I mean, like everything does go too far.

I mean, a university having 200 DEI officers, a university which is already one of the most liberal places in the world, you know? And, you know, it's one of those jobs where you'd have to admit there was progress or else the answer is, well, maybe I shouldn't have this job anymore. And whoever does that. So let's talk about, let's go, let's talk about, maybe I shouldn't have this job anymore. And whoever does that. So let's talk about, let's go, let's talk about,

I got to my card that says trans. Let's talk about it. The position, like other countries have national health services. The democratic position is, leave it up to parents, doctors, just leave, it's not the government's decision. That's the democratic position.

What's wrong with that position? Wait, say that again? The democratic position, right? Joe Biden, like his- Well, the democratic position in this state has been that you can, the kid can, the school has the right to hide it from the parents. That is something that is not going to go well

with the average voter. And again, I'm not even a parent and I get it. Okay? I mean, I think the governor here used the word snitch. If I'm wrong, I didn't say it. I think I read that. So, look, there are delicate problems here. But wait, wait, there's delicate problems here.

And there's a delicate problem where you have a kid, all right, who is either non-binary or trans, who feels scared at home, feels unsafe at home. Those things do happen in the world. There are things that happen in the world. But for the most part, that's not what we're talking about. For the most part, what we're talking about is a teenager who has felt that they have

a gender dysmorphia, so what they feel like is that they feel deeply unhappy, depression, all really rampant, and they go to their parents. They feel that, and then they blame it on the thing that has been put in their mind way too much that it may be because of you're in the wrong body, to put it probably wrongly,

but that we understand what that means, okay? Now it could be that case. When Trump said there's only two sexes again pendulum swinging way too far to stupidity okay obviously sex is more complicated than just two sexes there are people who absolutely you know are quote-unquote in the wrong body but when you're a kid when even a teenager and you're that confused about everything and you have no idea and you're upset for many other reasons, the idea that they put it... Let me just finish. I'm not saying it. I know. I could see you already. I could see you pulling back the bow. And the fact that they put

this in their head too much. That's my thing. Should you tell a kid? Look, there's a default setting for humans, male and female, but there are variations. That's absolutely true. Some people are attracted people of their own sex and some people are actually in the quote unquote wrong body. And that does happen. But the amount that they emphasize this, I compared it once on my show to entrapment. See, there you go. I said when we finished. I disagree.

I'm sorry, is that not the end? Is it? I thought entrapment had a period at the end. Could I explain it though? Yes, explain. I mean, I think we all get it, but yeah, explain it, entrapment. I don't think everybody does get it.

Okay, explain it. Okay, well, what is entrapment? Entrapment is when you suggest something to people that they weren't ordinarily gonna do. I use the example of after 9-11, the FBI got caught basically entrapping some people, which is what they went to people who were, excuse me, I'm not done.

Right, I'm sorry. You're right, honestly, that was rude. That was rude. That was rude. Bill, finish, you're explaining how being trans is like being recruited into Al-Qaeda. Sorry. You're right. You're right. Honestly, that was rude. That was rude. That was rude. Bill, finish. You're explaining how being trans is like being recruited into Al-Qaeda.

Well, that's glib and- Absolutely. 100% glib. Stupid and glib. It is. Yes. Because it's not true. And you didn't even let me get through the thing.

You're right. And now I gotta go. You're just gonna leave? We're in the middle of a debate. Yeah. No, okay, I'll finish this. Entrapment. Okay, so they go to somebody, We're in the middle of a debate. Yeah. No. Okay. I'll finish this. Entrapment. Like, okay. So they, they go to somebody, they go to a group of guys.

They did this in a group of poor black guys in Miami and were unhappy with America. And you know, Hey, wouldn't it be great if we blew up the Sears tower in Chicago? And these guys didn't even have a gun. And it's like, yeah, I hate America or I got problems with America. That does sound kind of cool. And Hey, well, we can get you the explosives. And that's like, yeah, I hate America or I got problems with America. That does sound kind of cool. And hey, well, we can get you the explosives and that's in trap. Okay.

You put an idea in people's heads that wouldn't been there otherwise. Do I think in most of America, they did that in schools? I don't, but I think in enough of them, in enough far left places, they did constantly have this idea in, in enough far left places, they did constantly have this idea in the minds of children

that maybe you're not in the right body. I mean, the New England Journal of Medicine advocated for taking sex off of a birth certificate, I believe. It was like, it's your assigned sex advert. Assigned sex advert. Assigned. Yeah. You're assigned. I think that's right. Well, I was assigned it by your assigned sex advert. Assigned sex advert. Assigned. You're assigned?

I think that's right. Well, I was assigned it by my dick, okay, when I was born. Yes. And again, to tell kids it doesn't always have to be and isn't always the default setting, but that's a different mentality than they put in the minds of kids. And that's why this debate goes on. And the fact that you think, or a lot of people on the left think that

even if you just have this debate, it makes you a bigot, you just have to roll over. That was, you asked about the Biden administration. That was their position. If you even question this, you're some sort of a bigot. And this is new science and it has to do with children. And it's not gonna look good in the future, that position. Can I just respond to something?

Now you can. Now I can respond? All right, can you just? I gotta go. Just, all right. Let's just see. I said my piece. You definitely said your piece.

Just say your bullshit while I'm in the bathroom. Just stay here for one second. Okay, I'm kidding. Unbelievable. I'm kidding. All right, no, no. Okay, a lot of things there. First of all, this is gonna sound confrontational.

For a long time, people said, oh, older gay people are recruiting kids to be gay. And they wouldn't really be gay. They were being recruited, they were being groomed, that they were being drawn. That was their conservative position, the Christian right position for a long time, was the reason you didn't wanna have gay teachers

is they're going to recruit. That the gay lifestyle is going to look so enticing and so exciting that it's going to bring these poor defenseless boys, mostly boys, into the gay lifestyle and destroy their lives. But of course that wasn't true. Really all gay teachers were an example. Right?

Yeah. Look, there are a few examples of people getting older and realizing that they shouldn't have transitioned. That happens, it's real, that's real. Yeah, more than a few. But there are also really important surgeries that people get for their heart, and they go wrong and somebody dies.

And nobody says we must stop the cardiologists. No one says we must stop the surgeons. We say, let's just. That's your analogy? Well, my analogy is only that, wait, let me finish. I'm just. Can I finish? Yes.

Is it my turn to talk? You're right. And what you say is, let's make sure that this version of it is being practiced well. We don't get rid of the specific surgery. We don't throw out a whole field of medicine. We say, let's make sure we're doing it in a way that's healthy.

The science, the research, all right, makes clear that yes, there are exceptions, yes, there are people practicing it in ways that maybe go too far, but for the most part, study after study shows that gender-affirming care saves, wait, let me, I'm talking, it's my turn, I was so quiet for so long after I interrupted

a few times. Well, you were, but okay. But once I stopped talking, boy, I was good at it. And that gender-affirming care saves a lot of lives. after I interrupted a few times. But once I stopped talking, boy, I was good at it. And that gender affirming care saves a lot of lives. And the truth is, we talk about these edge cases, talk about athletes, talk about locker rooms, but for the most part, what we're talking about is a very small group of people

that just want the opportunity to live and express themselves. And there is a war on that group of people from the right to make salient extreme cases, edge cases, not for the purposes of stopping those, but for doing what the Trump administration is doing entirely, which is stopping all gender affirming care altogether and making trans people fucking nervous

when they have to pee at the airport, right? Which is the end result of all this. Of course, that's awful and I agree with all that, except the part about the studies. There was a very big story this year It was in the front page in the New York Times a woman I forget her name and she had done like it was a 10-year study Did not release it on purpose because she said it would weaponize The argument from the other side. So in other words it came out not the way you wanted the study to come out.

Not what you said that it's, oh, every, all the studies show that no, it is a mixed bag. That's true. Some people, yes, it's the right thing. But to take that risk at that age before you know shit about anything, yes, sometimes it's pretty obvious that this should, it's a very hard call to make. And again, this was a very long study, very thorough, and they wouldn't release it because it came up with the wrong conclusion. But because it is a hard question, because it is a serious question.

It is a personal question. I don't want Donald Trump deciding, I want parents and doctors. You just said parents can get shut out. Well, I don't think parents can get shut out. Well, I don't think parents should get shut out. There are rare exceptions. Look, we all believe that parents should have

the decisions over their children, but we also recognize that some parents do such a bad fucking job that the kids are in danger. That happens outside of trans issues. That happens all the time. It's terrible. Some parents are fucking terrible. Somehow the fact that there are terrible parents

in the world gets erased on these questions. Do I think that schools should, as a baseline, be keeping a secret from parents? Of course not. No one thinks that. No one thinks that. Well, apparently that's not true. People do think that. And there is no perfect answer to this.

It's, as many naughty questions, the least bad answer. And the least bad answer is to not have the government decide from above. It's just to leave it up to people and parents and the kids and the doctors. Right? You want the government to ban gender-affirming care for kids? You want to lose every election? Just keep coming down on the side of parents coming in second in a who gets to decide what goes on with my kid contest. First of all, I'm not talking about winning or losing elections.

I agree that there's a salience to this issue. I agree that this has been weaponized. I agree with all of that, but I'm just talking about the issue itself. What does that card say? Can I take this one home as a souvenir? I'm gonna put it in my scrapbook. Let me see if I hit all my points

that I want to make about this. Okay. Boy. Like, they don't even see, couldn't they have started? It says, um, I guess this week it's tough. I'm going to say that Bill Maher, Bill, couldn't they have started this on the next card? I should think that

word bill should have been started on the next card. No, I'm not trying to get anybody in trouble. Um, let's not, you want to go? That's it. You're just leaving. Yeah, I'm just leaving. Bill Maher everybody. Thank you. I had questions more. I had other questions. We could do it all day. Well, I guess not.

We could. All right, good. Bill Maher, everybody, get outta here. If you wanna listen to Pod Save America ad free or get access to our subscriber Discord and exclusive podcasts, consider joining our Friends of the Pod community at crooked.com slash friends or subscribe on Apple Podcasts directly from the Pod community at crooked.com slash friends, or subscribe on Apple podcasts

directly from the Pod Save America feed. Also, be sure to follow Pod Save America on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for full episodes, bonus content, and more. And before you hit that next button, you can help boost this episode by leaving us a review and by sharing it with friends and family. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.

Our producers are David Toledo and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Reed Cherlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madeleine Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroote is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our Executive Assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hefkote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel,

Kirill Pellaveve, and David Tolles. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.