Pod Save America - BONUS POD with Trevor Noah

Episode Date: May 3, 2017

Trevor Noah, host of The Daily Show, sits down with Jon, Jon, and Tommy to talk about how Trump changed comedy, his approach to political humor, and what he's trying to achieve with The Daily Show.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. This is a special bonus episode. When we were in New York on Monday, we recorded a little interview with the host of The Daily Show, Trevor Noah. Yes, we did. Tommy's not here right now. Tommy's not here. This is just Lovett and I. We're just recording an intro for the interview that we did with tommy vitor there there you go you got it anyway we sat down with trevor before we went on the show

he was kind enough to give us some time and we talked to him about you know the stuff we talked to people we also went on the daily show we did yeah go check it out i think it was good did you watch it i felt good about it okay they made one edit that made it seem like I was answering a question that you had answered. They cut out my answer about Hillary Clinton. Right. Which sounded like I answered that. Right. But I did not answer that.

I was answering another thing. My answer was great. I don't know why they cut it. I'm sad that I wanted to. My answer works better after your answer, which is why I was bummed. No one will ever know what I said. But it was still a good interview. Anyway, I'm sure she's coming on our show.

We're going to get her. Okay. Without further ado, here is our interview with Trevor Noah. Welcome to a special episode of Pod Save America with the host of The Daily Show, Trevor Noah. Thank you very much for having me, guys. Thanks for making the time. Okay, so when you took over The Daily Show, a Donald Trump presidency was still a very remote possibility. How have you had to adapt to this new reality? How has it changed what your conception of the

show was going to be? Is it reality? I feel like it's just a nightmare and I'm coping. You know when you get to grips with a nightmare, like in your nightmare, have you ever had those where you go like, alright, I know this is a nightmare, but I'm just going to make things work. You have to deal with it. Yeah, I have that sometimes. You know what, I think the biggest thing that i've had to do and the show has had to do is work in a world where

uh a lot of the things that president trump does would already be jokes or escalations that we would make does that make sense yes so like for instance i remember it happened on the campaign trail for the first time i said it's only a matter of time before Trump kicks a baby out of a rally because he was just kicking out everyone. And I was like, man, this guy's going to kick a baby out. And then he kicked a baby out of his rally. And I went, oh, man, he does the escalation of the joke. So you've got to find another place to take everything. And then you've got to find a way to process the information and give it

to people where they don't think you're being ludicrous with everything you say right right it's that he's parody it's he's beyond power he is the end he's the logical conclusion of every joke basically where do you go from there exactly exactly that's exactly what it is so where do you go from there strangely enough i find you dig deeper into the truth. And then you find that he is not the end, because he is still trapped within the confines of reality. And I know it sounds maybe a little bit heady to say for a joke. But what happens is, you dig deeper into the truth. And then I find that's where the reality of Trump actually exists. So if you stay on the surface with him, then there is nothing you go, ah, the jokes are all gone. But once you stay on the surface with him then there is nothing you go ah the jokes are

all gone but once you get into the policy side of what he's doing once you get into the ideas behind who donald trump is and what he stands for then you find there's always a joke because he takes it to a conclusion that is still sort of safe for him the next level of the joke or the next level of the idea is a space that speaks more to the truth of what's happening this is interesting to me it's it's almost as if i'm like now as you say that that makes sense because it's almost like saying that he is at the end of parody is almost a kind of a seed to his terms right that like that this is as far out as you can get this is as crazy as you can get when that's not true it's not true at all it's not true you you you take it to the next level so

there was a joke for instance um we did last week donald trump got a red button reportedly got a red button put on his desk and when he presses it someone brings coke right right and we were like that sounds like a joke because red button president's desk come on that sounds like a joke so then we went all right where do we take it from there and then we turn the joke into he doesn't even care about the Coke. He just does that because he likes pressing a button and then a butler walks into the room. And the butler is Mitt Romney. And then like so what we then do is now take you back into that world.

And then as Trump, then I'll be like, and the butler is Mitt Romney. And he's like, that's right, Mitt. Just pour it into my mouth. That's right. Like a baby bird. Pour it in, Mitt. Pour it in my mouth. That's right. Like a baby bird. Pour it in, Mitt. Pour it in your mind now. And it's just rather taking you to another place where you go like, oh, yeah, Mitt Romney.

Oh, yeah, he kissed the ring. Oh, just a moment where, you know. Because I don't think we've processed all of the information in and around Trump. I feel like there was like a data dump of everything. It's too much every day. And sometimes it's nice to go back where people have actually said to me, they go, when did he say that? And I go, oh, before you voted, that's when. You talk about waking up into a nightmare.

I mean, you were born into a nightmare of apartheid in South Africa. You lived in South Africa. You lived in Australia, the UK. Does that help you find absurdity in the U.S. political system? And do people who are born and raised here ever get defensive and feel like you're attacking their country? It depends on who and where. You know, one thing that I like about traveling is it gives you the perspective on A, what ideas and rules are truly superficial. You know, so what is offensive in one place and what is offensive

everywhere? What is a norm and what is a cultural rule that people abide by everywhere and what are ideas that politicians in certain places have just sprung on people that everyone have accepted as normal right that's the first thing i think that helps with comedy the the second thing is people do say that sometimes they'll be like oh no you you know who are you to make a joke? You're not from here. And then I go, look, man, essentially, in a strange way, I am from here. In two ways.

One, America's history and South Africa's history are painfully similar. And then the flip side of that is America's been involved in the world for so long. Part of how i speak english is because of american tv shows you know nelson mandela the part of the reason he went to jail was because the cia was part of him being caught like right we have been influenced by this world america brought things to us and taught us how to be america so it is weird how often you say eat my shorts my mom used to think bob simpson was the devil but yeah that's but that's that's like a place where i go like this is the i feel like this is the end goal this

is this is what i was taught by america i wouldn't have dreamed of making jokes about a president or making jokes about my elders or that's american tv that's what america taught me to do is poke fun at authority figures and that's where I've ended up is in the place where I was taught. So you wrote an op-ed in the New York Times shortly after the election called Let's Not Be Divided. Divided people are easier to rule. How do you balance the desire to reach out with the comedic responsibility to go after Trump? Well, I think the mistake a lot of people make is they go, who are you trying to unite? So people go like, oh, are you reaching out to Trump supporters?

I go, hey, man, I'm not an idiot, or I am, but I try and learn from my stupidity. And one thing I've learned is some people will never see your point of view, nor do they wish to see your point of view. Some people are only interested in your oppression or in their superiority. That's something that you can't fight against at some point. When I talk about division, there's divisions even amongst people that claim to be on the same side. There are people fighting over the tiny details of language or of the discourse that we have in and around race, but they have it at the same intensity that they would with a quote-unquote enemy. And so I go, just be careful when you're doing that.

Think about what your intention is. Think about what the other person's intention is, and then figure out your game plan from there. Sometimes I feel like we're in a space where everyone is so uptight that anyone that makes a mistake around them is automatically the enemy. And I go, if that happens, you're going to end up in a world

where there is no opposition to this Trump. There is nothing that can stand up to it because you're spending so much time fighting amongst yourselves. Yeah, it's really interesting that so much, maybe it's partly because of Twitter and social media or just kind of a culture of punditry. But so often it feels as though people's reaction to a clip, to a sentence, to a word is not, here's how I feel about it.

But how could you say this when other people are going to react in this way? Yes. Right? That we're all pundits and none of us are citizens. Yes. Right? And I just wonder, like, how do you break that way of thinking? react in this way yes right that we're all pundits and none of us are citizens right and i just wonder like how do you break that way of thinking like how do you get people to just accept something

on its terms you know the first thing you have to accept is that you can't so i i go i can't change everybody nor do i wish to change everybody i also also understand that the role of comedy a lot of the time is to break the rules. That's what makes comedy fun. You know, that's what comedy is about. I think it was Colin who said comedy or the job of comedians is to find the line and then cross it. And so in that world, what I do and what I try to do on the show is just one joke at a time, win a person over, make you think about something, spark an emotion in some way. And I'm not always trying to spark the same emotion.

Sometimes I want you to groan. Sometimes I want you to laugh out loud. Sometimes I just want you to pause and think and then giggle. Each joke is like a dish in a meal. They're not all meant to do the same thing. And so what I'm trying to do in those instances is work with the people who are with me and carry on that journey. And then along the way, garner new fans who are willing to be in a space of comedy because they understand what we are essentially trying to do. So you have a president whose the truth is under assault. Every day he's deriding them as fake news. be in a space of comedy because they understand what we are essentially trying to do.

So you have a president whose the truth is under assault. Every day he's deriding them as fake news. He's attacking them. Meanwhile, you have this whole generation of young people that are looking to comedians like you, like John Oliver, Sam Bee, for the truth, for their news. Does that change your approach? Does that change the responsibility you feel when you do the show? Or is it still, I'm trying to make people laugh? Well, I think the two are the same

you know good comedy is true comedy in my opinion that's what made south african comedy what it was when we first started out and what a lot of it still is today is that we were in a world where no one was allowed to say anything there's no free speech and then you have democracy and you have an explosion of free speech and one of the things that explodes the most is comedy all of a sudden and what connects with the people is the truth that's contained in jest and i've always loved how a joke connects to people like you don't want to laugh it's an involuntary action you you see people going like oh man i shouldn't be laughing at this or sorry sorry i didn't mean to you You know, that outburst is magic. And that magic is created by a sudden shot of truth.

And so for me, I think if you have a responsibility or if you take comedy seriously, then you take the truth seriously. And some comedians will do it with the benign, you know, whether it's Gaffigan or Seinfeld, the truths of bacon and milk. And then other comedians will do it with the benign, whether it's Gaffigan or Seinfeld, the truths of bacon and milk. And then other comedians, legends like Pryor or Chappelle, will tell you the truth about race and conversations that are in America. But what makes it great is the fact that it's based in the truth.

This is Pod Save America. Stick around. There's more great show coming your way. This is Pod Save America. Stick around. There's more great show coming your way. So there's a story in this month's Atlantic titled, How Late Night Comedy Fueled the Rise of Trump. Sneering hosts have alienated conservatives and made liberals smug. Oh, let's get into it. I'm excited about it. We hate this story very much. Ross Douthat said this in the New York Times during the raise.

Jake Tapper asked Sam Bee about it this weekend. What's your reaction to this? It's a common conservative critique these days. You know what my thing is. First of all, I think we need to step away from the hot takes of one thing causing Trump. Can we just pause that for a moment?

Hillary caused Trump. You know what caused it? The one thing that caused Obama at the White House Correspondents Dinner. That the one thing that caused on obama at the white house correspondence dinner that was the moment that caused oh fox knew that was the thing that oh the white guys we all did it there are many things that contributed to donald trump with regards to the sneering comedy does that alienate some people? Yes. We're all different in our styles of comedy. I'm very different to Sam Bee, who's very different to John Oliver, who's very different to Stephen Colbert.

Yes, we're all operating in the same space. But just like players in a sports team, we're all slightly different. I mean, that was part of the thing with me when I started is people said oh he's not sneering enough right he's not you know angry enough for he's not and i was like yeah well that's not what i'm trying to do um and over time i guess i've grown with an audience now that accepts how i do my comedy but i i don't know if that contributes directly yeah there will there will always be people who feel like they're being, you know, they feel condescended. But I would argue that politicians have more of that power than comedians do. When a politician's out there on the stump, they have the ability to connect.

That's what Obama did really well. You know, it's the difference between saying we're going to shut down coal and saying we're going to make sure your jobs are intact i feel like those are the things i doubt that somebody's at the voting booth going yeah this will show you trevor noah take that take that that'll show you but i want to dig into that for one second because i do think that the idea that there are people voting against uh democrats just to make a point at hbo Comedy Central is ridiculous. But sometimes I do wonder about what we're saying to ourselves, right, that we're kind of speaking a language to ourselves about what's absurd and what's not. And I guess my question would be sort of what are the ways in which you find you're

challenging the mostly liberal audience that's watching your show, right, that you're not making a joke at, say, Trump's expense or conservatives expense, which I love, your show right that that you're not making a joke at say trump's expense or conservative's expense which i love but saying hey you're part of the joke too you deserve to be made fun of too well it it always depends on what the story is and what's going on i very quickly come to learn that false equivalency is not anything i wish to participate in so i'm not going to try and search for something right when there's a when there's a glaringly obvious you know what i mean i'm not the guy where godzilla is coming over the horizon and i'm like yeah but you also double park let's talk about that for a second there has to be some context to what's going on there has to be a level you know and donald trump as the president

in my opinion and in my point of view is the largest issue now you can go i disagree with you trevor and i say yes i understand this is my view and i guess maybe this is my bubble that may be the same filter as many liberal people in america and a lot of the uk and a lot of europe and a lot of australia and a lot of africa and a lot of you know maybe i'm in that bubble then but the uh non-crazy part of humanity bubble i do i do think it's a yeah it's a big group but what i what i try and do though is look for those moments i i i don't try and create them artificially because it'll it literally feel like that where it's like all right i've been i've been hitting on one thing and you know like let me give you an example if i'm doing if i'm in new york and i'm doing jokes

about new york let's say just on stage in a comedy club i'm not going to stop my show and be like all right now let's make jokes about pennsylvania because i mean i spent a lot of time on new york right it's time to know where i am and what's happening is what I respond to as a comedian. And so when I travel, when I go somewhere else, my comedy changes because that what is happening to me is changing as well. And so if I feel this, then this is what I respond to. Otherwise, it wouldn't be authentic. Did you get Obama to loosen up and laugh when you interviewed him? He was always tough. He'd be like, that was good.

Yes, he would. He'd always do the – he'd smile and then he'd be like uh that was uh that was funny that was funny why didn't you laugh thanks boss makes me feel good i was nice i like that i like that um he you know what he he he he relaxed like before and after the interview like that's like obama's super funny i mean you guys know better like he's really funny but when it comes to the interview, then President Obama is there. And you can see that he calculated and he knew that every word could and would be taken or used against him. And so he had to precisely pick every single word he used.

And he does that less than most, too. Yeah. But still. Yeah. But then Trump is just like, I don't know if that's a thing like donald trump is just like words i don't know maybe maybe sometimes you know folks we're the best the greatest you never know whatever pick which he like adds all the words and he's like you guys can make your own paragraph whatever he literally says that take it however you want whatever i say just take it however you feel

these words have no consequences. He's like, just do it. We have separated words from meaning. We are in outer space. Well, that's true. Who was it? I think it was McCain today. Was it McCain who said that?

He said, don't listen to what Trump says. Just watch what he does. And I was like, Jesus in heaven. That is the part of the whole like don't take him literally. We tried that during the campaign. But that is terrifying. Seriously, not literally.

But then Donald Trump is the same guy who says, and I'm out there, folks, and what do they say? They say, oh, he's joking. I don't joke, folks. I don't joke. I say what I mean,

and we're going to build a wall. For people listening, Donald Trump is not here. And the hand motions are perfect yeah i love it trevor noah thank you so much i know you're very busy oh no thank you very much are we done we're done yeah you got a show to do don't we have like five more minutes maybe oh oh man this is fun man you guys are amazing man thank you very much thanks for having thanks for stopping by thank you so much thanks for letting us come to your show now i interview you guys this is gonna be fun thank you very much for being on my show, and thank you for having me on yours.

Cool. Thanks. Thank you, guys. That's our show for today. Thank you, Trevor Noah, for joining Pod Save America. Yeah. I thought that was a wonderful interview. It was interesting.

Yeah, I'd like to have him back. Maybe he'll do the podcast someday. Yeah, I wish we had more time. Yeah, we were a little hurried. We had to go do the show. We had to go promote ourselves. Anyway, thank you for listening to this special bonus episode of Pod Save America. Do you think people realize that we're padding it right now to make

it feel a little bit longer? I don't know. Do you think they'd like this? Do you think they're still listening? What do you think they'll turn off? Do you think they'll like this extra? You know what we should do is we should have a word at the very end that we say, and we say, this is a great idea actually. Today's word is pistachio. And what does that mean? If you made it this far in the podcast, please tweet

Jon Favreau the word pistachio. Oh, thank you for my mentions. Jon Favreau, pistachio. At Jon Favreau's, pistachio. A better way to cook. Thank you.