Pod Save America - Chris Christie's Last Stand (Live from San Diego!)

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

And then there were four. The gloves are off at the fourth GOP debate in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Chris Christie, current last place candidate (and future Pod Save America co-host) is the only one throwing punches at Donald Trump, while Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy set their sights on Nikki Haley. Meanwhile, Trump is planning to use his presidential powers to punish his political enemies and Joe Biden suggests another candidate could also beat Trump. Later, Mayor Todd Gloria joins to talk about his administration’s approach to housing affordability and public safety. And finally, we play Gays vs. Straights: holiday edition.  For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We have an outstanding show for you tonight. The mayor of San Diego, Todd Gloria, is here. We are so happy to have Sam Sanders with us, co-host of the excellent podcast, Vibe Check.

I'm so happy to be here. I love San Diego. All right, let's get to the news. So we had another Republican primary debate this week. While we're all hoping it would be the last, they just announced today there will be three more in January. And after watching Wednesday night's debate in Alabama between

Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Chris Christie, it's hard to see why. The debates will continue until morale improves. I'm just mad I had to go to NewsNation.com to listen. It offended me. It was on the CW on my television.

They were airing it there. That still exists. So despite promises from the moderators that the debate would focus on Trump, the only person who took that seriously was last place candidate Chris Christie. Let's listen. I look at my watch now. We're 17 minutes into this debate and except for your little speech in the beginning, we've had these three acting as if the race is between the four of us. The fifth guy, who doesn't have the guts to show up and stand here, he's the one who, as you just put it, is way ahead in the polls. And yet, I've got these three guys who are all seemingly to compete with, you know, Voldemort.

He who shall not be named. They don't want to talk about it. The fact is that when you go and you say the truth about somebody who is a dictator, a bully, who has taken shots at everybody, whether they've given him great service or not over time, who dares to disagree with him, then I understand why the Thieves Three are timid to say anything about it.

Maybe it's because they have future aspirations. Maybe those future aspirations are now, or maybe they're four years from now. So, yeah, that was Pod Save America guest Chris Christie. Dan, Christie suggested that, as you heard there, that maybe the reason his opponents aren't taking on Trump directly is because they have future aspirations, which is a take directly from the message box. Questions. Did you know he was such a fan? And what do you think Christy was trying to do last night? So when Lovett was preparing to interview Chris Christy,

he came to me and said, can you give me some advice? And I said, I need you to do two things. One, do not fall for him. Do not bro out. Number two, grab his phone and subscribe him to the message box. So one for two is not bad. I just want to say, Dan,

I mean, look, if you tell someone don't fall in love with that guy, he's a bad boy. It's going to happen. It's going to happen every goddamn time. So I want to give Chris Christie, Pod Save America guest, John Leavitt, role model, the benefit of the doubt.

I don't. And I believe he sincerely believes all those things he said about Donald Trump. Now. But I'm sorry, though. Follow up. Okay, go, go, go. If Trump won and wanted to appoint Christie, he would do it. I think no. I think no.

No, I think this dude has shown that he will do whatever he needs to do to stay around. Attorney General? Sam, I want to give you a warning. Do not attack Chris Christie on this stage with these people. You're talking about my friend. Yes. I just don't trust the guy. Don't even say a bad word about Mitt Romney on the stage with these three.

I'll tell you that. I just compare him to like Lindsey Graham. Yeah. Who, when I covered election 2016, in those early debates, talked so much shit about Donald Trump. And then Trump gets in office and Lindsey Graham is just up that man's ass for four years. I don't trust these guys. I don't think you should trust him. Very clear. Thank you.

Chris Christie knows this might have been his last debate. The RNC basically had to rig the polling to get him on that stage because he was hours away from not making it and they had to include a poll they would otherwise not have included.

News Nation was desperate for any sort of entertainment at their one moment in the sun. And so this was the moment to do it. We loved it. You guys loved it, as evidenced by your applause. We have more clips coming from Chris Christie. Yes. But I think we have to recognize that Chris Christie, in the mind of Republicans, is a Democrat. So let me put that in perspective. Chris Christie's approval rating among Republican primary voters in the most recent Monmouth University poll is 12%. Do you know what Barack Obama's approval rating with Republicans was on the last day he was president? 14%. Jesus Christ.

He is not. I'm glad he said it. It's good for the historical record book that he said it. It has zero impact in the Republican primary. I knew that Dan was going to say this. And there was a poll out after the debate that showed they did a pre-debate poll of Republican

voters who watched the debate and a post-debate poll. And the one candidate, when they asked would you be considering this candidate, the one candidate who gained the most out of anyone in the debate was chris christie and then dan said okay well what percentage and i said he went from 21 to 29 huge that's an eight point bump people considering in the 20s donald trump's at 62

um so in terms of polls endorsements fundraising uh nikki haley was the candidate with the most momentum heading into the debate uh which is why she was the target of so many attacks from desantis and vivek uh here's some of that other candidates up here like nikki haley she caves anytime the left comes after anytime the media comes media comes after her. Nikki, you were bankrupt when you left the UN. After you left the UN, you became a military contractor, you actually started joining service on the board of Boeing, whose back you scratched for a very long time, and then gave foreign multinational speeches like Hillary Clinton is, and now you're a multimillionaire. That math does not add up.

Nikki is corrupt. This is a woman who will send your kids to die so she can buy a bigger house love all the attention fellas thank you for that first of all he's mad because those wall street donors used to support him and now they support me i'm glad we i'm glad we stopped in the shot of ron desantis doing the that's what he always does. Ron DeSantis stands there like right before he walked out on stage, someone whispered in his ear,

you have arms, go. Whenever I think of Ron DeSantis, I think of Prince, the artist formerly known as, because they wear the same heels. They wear the same heels. And I've never forgotten that. Sam, how do you think that hayley handled all the incoming uh in this debate because it's probably the the most she's taken in any debate

and do you think any of the attacks from vivek or uh desantis will stick no i think only the base was watching to even think about having their minds changed and I think of all of the men clamoring to take Nikki down a notch it just made her seem like the strongest person in the room and now I just think of it as like Nikki and the boys it's Nikki and the boys and Nikki seems the least crazy Nikki seems the least crazy and so I think she won that debate I think she's got some good money behind her now. But I also think that none of them should get their hopes up. Who listens to The Daily this morning?

Yeah, you did. Second half, they introduce this idea of a factional candidate. Who listens to that? I listened to it. We did. So it's this idea. You get an A. You get an A. You get an A+. They say, fuck the Daily. They listen to the Crooked podcast, What A Day.

Listen to both. Yes. Listen to both. That's right. The rivalry we all care about. Anywho. Long story short, this expert on the Daily lays out the case that Nikki Haley is a factional candidate. She's surging right now, but she'll only be really popular with the faction of the GOP electorate. And she'll never get past that faction. And once you see her as that, you know that the only way she makes it is if something really bad happens to Trump and he's out of there. Otherwise, she ends up like all the other factional candidates in recent history. Kasich, factional candidate. McCain, factional candidate. Jesse Jackson, factional candidate. Bernie Sanders,

factional candidate. And so I think what Nikki Haley has to do, knowing that, is triangulate in a way that Trump does not have to. Because she knows there's a good chance that she'll never be nominee. So she needs to appeal enough to the right groups of people to be able to land somewhere else after this. But I don't know. I think she's surging right now. But unless Trump is like taken away in handcuffs, he's the nominee, right? Still. Well, no, I know that Dan here disagrees because he's on the Haley train, and he thinks she's going all the way. But barring Trump being disallowed from running or put in the jail, what puts Nikki Haley over Trump?

Absolutely nothing. Nothing. Okay. I have been sitting here for weeks now, listening to people talk about surging Nikki Haley and how she's the alternative to Trump. That is mathematical idiocy. Yep. And it drives me insane. Because she's still

30 points behind him. Because look, I get it. The press, they really had in their budget lines a competitive Republican primary. They're not getting that. I think a lot of people would like to live in a country where Nikki Haley, for as bad as she is, could win the Republican nomination, not Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis. That's not the country we live in. Let's put some numbers to this, okay? In a recent NBC poll, they asked voters who their first and second

choice was. Donald Trump is the first or second choice of 71% of voters. That's a lot. That's a lot. Ron DeSantis, who we all make fun of as a ridiculous, awkward nerd. Goober. Goober. Goober. Perfect word. 54%. Nikki Haley, 28%. Consider her as first or second choice. Nikki Haley's approval rating has gone down as she has, quote unquote, surged because more Republican pro-Trump voters have soured on her. Her net approval rating right now, so that your approval rating minus your disapproval rating is 12 points. Donald Trump's 58, Ron DeSantis' 43, right? It's a fiction in creation. She is exactly, as Sam said, a factional candidate who appeals to the 38% of Republicans who say they oppose the MAGA movement.

You cannot get there in a race like this because eventually, this is why all these factional candidates lose. Eventually it becomes a two-person race and the factional candidate can't get to 50%. So I feel better now. so thank you for allowing me to do that we're on the same page i thought sam said fashionable candidate and i was like yeah she dresses pretty well a little bit of feedback was hard to hear that's not a long like yeah

that's dressed amongst the bunch i mean she looks great and we should say why she's a factional candidate because she represents a republican party that mostly doesn't exist anymore. It's a pre-2016 Republican party. It's the Republican party that was more internationalist, less isolationist, more in favor of immigration, more focused on free markets, and like the debt. And she talks about this every debate. She's like very obsessed with the debt and the deficit and like just all kinds of stuff that Republicans used to care about before Donald Trump came along. And so she is, I think, now the natural place for either anti-Trump Republicans

or Republicans who still believe in the party that was pre-Trump. And that's just a third of the Republican electorate, and it just hasn't budged since then. Also, watching the debate, it is a testament to how terrible ronda santos is that she's being treated like oh wow like charisma you know talent like she does fine during this debate there was a moment that i thought was like telling i think chris christie is like the best politician up there he's just offering i. I do believe that. Sorry.

Deal with it. He's my best friend. But he's just offering something they don't want. If he was the best politician, we wouldn't know about Rich Kidd. Let's go right from here to New Hampshire. He's joining the campaign. He's offering something that they don't want. Fine.

But there was a moment where he jumped in to defend Nikki Haley. And it was kind of strange, right? And Nikki Haley and it was kind of strange right and like Nikki Haley just like took the compliment but I think like a stronger person you know she's a better politician than Ron DeSantis but the idea that she just stood there and let Chris Christie defend her as opposed to jumping in what do you do I found it quite patronizing yes it was what do you do in that moment besides just like I don't need you to fucking defend me, Chris Christie, you loser that no one here likes, except for the Pod Save America audience. Exactly.

Also, Chris Christie, you defending me is hurting me with the voters I actually need, so please shut the fuck up. Stop helping me, you unpopular fuck. No. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm arguing with the most annoying person any of us has ever met. annoying person any of us has ever met. But let me take a second to say, and I'm not giving any flowers to Nikki Haley, but to be the only woman on that stage when the men are going after you like that,

you're in a hard bind. You're in a hard bind. So I can totally understand her not responding to Chris Christie patronizing her. I can totally understand any response she gives because they were bullying her because she's a woman. And I can say that and still not like her, but they were bullying her because she's a woman and i can say that and still not like her but like they were bullying her because she's a woman and that was just

like they're still doing that they're still doing that oh can can any of you name the three counties in eastern new jersey that chris christie is from what an insufferable prick who sits there and thinks like oh yeah everyone loves the annoying dickhead who gives geography pop quizzes at debates. Do you think being president is like, sir, where should we land the plane? He's like, repeat something you memorized back in the day, like a far-flung country, Bratislava.

Like, what are you talking about? How did he think this was a good attack? He has the energy of a hospital administrator eagerly denying your claim because you filled out the paperwork incorrectly that hit me hard wow so uh so haley took a lot of incoming from desantis but he took some incoming of his own from chris christie uh for being too afraid to take on Trump. Let's listen to that exchange. Why isn't he just answering the question? The question was very direct. Is he fit to be president or isn't he? The rest of the speech is interesting,

but completely non-responsive. And if we were in a courtroom, they'd strike the answer and say, Governor DeSantis, you're a smart man no they would no they wouldn't they would strike the answer because you're not answering you just don't like you have your you have no is he fit or isn't he no i don't have my thing we don't use the thing i just want to, we're fucked. I just want to say. We're fucked. Horrible.

Oh, my God. Horrible. I only heard it. Now I saw it for the first time. I'm rock hard right now. Don't egg him on. Wait. It's like, what are you saying?

When are we starting? I just think it's amazing to me that Ron DeSantis, through that diatribe, as Christy is just laying into him, he decides to jump in on, no, no, no, the court reporter wouldn't strike it from the record. Actually, actually. You can say anything you want about me, but I am drawing the line at that.

What I said was admissible. It was admissible. Which is, that is his energy. Tommy, to the extent that this debate mattered at all, which I would posit it did not. Sure. It was about whether DeSantis or Haley probably helped themselves more, since they are the ones battling it out for second place right now. Who do you think did better?

Or do you think either candidate actually helped themselves in this debate? I mean, look, again, I don't have my finger on the pulse of the Republican electorate, as you can tell, right? I'm more inclined to think Chris Christie did well. Ron DeSantis,antis for me everything he says is delivered in the tone of a child who thinks he bargained 30 more minutes of tv time you know what i mean he's like no i did it you said i could watch summer slam you know it's like dude like what are we talking about here and so it's hard for me to get past that and how annoying

he is i do think he looked weak there and Christie got him and, you know, he wasn't answering and he made him look kind of ridiculous and like he was ducking the question. For Nikki Haley, I mean, it is very, very hard in debates when everyone is coming after you. I thought she was very strong in the front and then faded a little by the end because she was just getting hammered from every side. I mean, when this little dweeb holds up like Nikki equals corrupt, what do you do with that? Also, you know, her husband is in the military. He's deployed overseas. And Vivek Ramaswamy said to her, she'll send your sons overseas so she can buy a bigger house. To die.

To die. So she could buy a bigger house. Like the meanest things you could possibly say to someone, Vivek Ramaswamy was saying to her. So I think Vivek, you know, look, he had a moment before that first debate. I think his personality has turned off everyone who's seen him speak. I think Haley did well, but took a lot of incoming. And it's not just about, you know, the three or four million people who watched the debate that night. It's about how those attacks get replayed on TV shows the next day, on social media, what gets picked up in ads, what messages get carried forward.

And I think she took some tough shots that she's going to have to answer about some of the corruption allegations that he made. DeSantis might have done better just by virtue of getting less incoming and kind of being out of the fray for more time, but it's tough to tell. But he still has to be Ron DeSantis.

Yeah, he still looks like that. Yeah, but they look that. You look at him and you're just like, oh, this guy. Gotta do something with those arms. But I will say, like, having, if you, like, that, this, whatever, you watch that debate,

and, like, I actually know what Ron DeSantis was doing in that debate. I know what Chris Christie was doing in that debate. I don't, I know Nikki Haley pushed back against a bunch of attacks, but she didn't make as clean an argument for candidacy as Ron DeSantis did as much as Ron DeSantis has to do it using Ron DeSantis's voice weirdly your boy Chris Christie like took some really hawkish positions

he was like yes I would send special forces into Gaza to rescue hostages yes I would go to war with China over Taiwan like DeSantis ducked to that question, and Christie's like, no, let me tell you about all the places I'm gonna fucking attack. Can I, I'm just, like, I have a question for y'all, because I trust y'all's judgment and opinions. I kept thinking, watching this debate, all right, Trump's not here

because he doesn't need to talk to anyone but his base, and he can talk to them whenever he wants, and they look for his words. But all these candidates here are trying in some way to talk to multiple audiences whether it be donors or maybe moderate swing voters or whoever but like if these candidates on that stage last night know that they'll never be president who were they who were they really talking to last night and what do they really want knowing the end game is not going to be the White House for them.

I think that in their minds, they have convinced themselves. I think if you run for president, if you got the staff, you got the donors, you go through the whole thing. You're living your life on the road. You have convinced yourself that there is a path, maybe an unlikely path, but things happen. Trump ends up in jail. Trump drops dead right like this is the kind of things that man's living to be a hundred i mean i'm gonna tell you right now that kind of nasty doesn't die a hundred this is what they're thinking they're thinking

okay if if he's not if something happens to donald trump then maybe i could go to this state in this state and i could get this constituency and i could do this and that the other thing like i think that they're that's in their mind. That's sad, though. And then they're thinking, to Dan's point that he's made, and if that fails, then maybe I'm set up for 2028. I think they're all talking to different audiences. Ron DeSantis, if Donald Trump were to go to prison tomorrow,

Ron DeSantis would be the Republican nominee and it wouldn't be close. Really? He is by far the second choice of most Trump voters. Shut up. By far. It's not even close. By far.

They can't do that. That is true. Not little Ron. And if someone can't get... Not Ronnie. Yeah, he is. We don't like him. He's weird.

He's awkward. He's an asshole to just enough of the right people for Republicans to be their nominee. That is who it is. Nikki Haley is positioning herself for a post-Trump Republican Party. And the problem for her is she started this race as a non-Trump, but she started gaining support as the candidate of the anti-Trump faction.

So that has made her less popular and less viable of a leader in the Republican Party in a 2028 race. Vivek Ramaswamy is talking to Trump directly. He wants a job. It's an audience of one. I am, I have. And it's unhinged. Yeah, I have no evidence for this,

but I would not be surprised to find out that Trump's campaign is encouraging him to stay in the race. Really? Encouraging him to do what he's doing, to just like be a chaos agent there and defend Trump on stage. Wow.

Because at the beginning of that clip we showed, ramaswamy is trying to get in there to defend de santis for not saying trump is unfit to attack chris christie and chris christie is looking for a spot right up here he's either yeah he is like he can't have my seat looking to the person who can provide a sixth chair apparent i actually seriously he's talking to the person who offers contributor contracts at MSNBC. Yeah. Yeah. CNN primetime?

Pull up a chair, Chris. Christie or leave it? All right. I'm going to go ahead and leave it. I'm going to go ahead and leave it, John. That's so funny.

Love is on vacation filling in. It's Governor Chris Christie Let's get into it Our first segment is Bridgegate So the award for the biggest asshole of the night As always goes to Vivek Ramaswamy Who was finally

Stuffed into a locker by Chris Christie In what was Certainly my favorite moment of the debate. Here it is. Okay, you say this, you do this, you do this at every debate. You go out on the stump and you say something. All of us see it on video.

We confront you on the debate stage. You say you didn't say it, and then you back away. And I want to say one. I'll tell you exactly what I said, Chris. I'm not done yet. Now look, this is nonsense. This is not a spirit. This is not a steal this is not a steal nonsense

let me tell you something this is the fourth debate the fourth debate that you would be voted in the first 20 minutes as the most obnoxious blowhard in America so shut up

stop letting straight men run for office love it um you are our chris christie whisperer so obviously we would like to hear more about what you thought about his performance there but on vivek he's been trying to copy trump uh he got a little yeah he got a little notoriety early. There was some buzz around him. Why do you think his shtick hasn't worked as well with Republican voters as Donald Trump's? Well, he just doesn't have it.

I mean, Donald Trump, we don't like talking about his strengths, but he has them. And I think his great skill is that he's a bully you root for. That is his great power. Is it what? He's a bully you root for. And no American of any political persuasion wants to elect the villain from Ghostbusters. And if you ever find yourself in a position where you sound like the villain from Ghostbusters, you're losing. It was the poster in the air for me.

Yeah. Once you do that, you got to go. It's so childish. Nothing good comes from that. Here's another way to think about it. One year ago, Vivek Ramaswamy was the guy

begging to be interviewed on a midday Fox News program. Yeah. Here we are in December of 2023. He has beaten the former Vice President of the United States, the governors of North Dakota, Arkansas. He is currently beating the former governor of New Jersey.

And I don't think he really wants to be president. I don't think he got in to be president. He got in to be famous. We know his name. Or sell anti-woke investment products. Yeah, all the things. The really mean HOA president. He has...

That's what he feels like. He has exploited the worst elements of our political system to gain what he wants to help himself. That was his plan in the beginning, and he has succeeded at that. I think that was his plan. I think then he flew a little too close to his son. Yes, he got a tail.

Everyone. All day today, apparently, there was a story about this on Fox. They were shitting all over him on Fox. All the Fox hosts were mad at him. They were saying he's a clown. Why did he do this? Blah, blah, blah.

Like I think he's in danger now of like ruining his future career that he aspired to by doing that. People get impressed in races all the time knowing they're probably going to lose. And they're in it. They're just like, I'm going to do it. I got a case to make. I just want to be out there. And then there's always one moment, it could be like five minutes,

where they believe they might actually be president, and it fucks with their head for the rest of their life. And that is the price you will pay for this. That is correct. All right, we'll leave it there. When we come back, we'll talk to the mayor of San Diego, Todd Gloria. And joining us to tell us more about his administration, Todd Gloria, Mayor Gloria, welcome to Pod Save America. Hello, East County. How you guys doing?

When you won your election in 2020, you became the first ever person of color and member of the LGBTQ community to be elected to that office in a city, in a part of the state that has a long history of electing Republicans. Talk to me a little. That is definitely something worth applauding. People love Todd. Talk a little bit about how you won that race and what advice you would give to other Democrats trying to break historical barriers all around the country.

Yeah, well, first off, thank you to a lot of the folks in this audience who didn't just help on that particular election, but for 20 plus years, built the infrastructure to make that possible. We were once Richard Nixon's lucky city to elect the son of a maid and a gardener the gay person of color mayor of the city took a tremendous amount of work I think about the people who sat in an apartment in North Park to figure out the maps for the first time we could do citizen redistricting in the early 1990s that created a district that was reasonably possible to elect an openly gay person.

I won that seat a generation later and put me on a path. And to your question, I mean, first off, to any wannabe candidate who may be watching or listening to this, I mean, you got to do the two things your mom told you not to do. Knock on strangers' doors and ask for strangers for money, right? But really and truly, I and ask for strangers' money, right? But really and truly, I mean, for someone like myself, it's to make sure that the vast majority of the eighth largest city in this country think that someone who may be

significantly different from them actually cares about the same things as them. You know, I'm a tenant in this city, and the housing is too damn expensive, and we need to make it easier for working people to afford to live in San Diego. That you can be a person of color, but you understand that while we call out for police reform, we also need to keep people safe, and we have to have public safety that is

responsive and picks up your calls when you call 911. And importantly, that there's too many damn potholes, and we have to fill them and fix the streets. And if that can include a bike lane and some pedestrian facilities, that's fine. But long story short, there are a lot of people that spent a lot of time through citizen redistricting, through runoff elections, through the opportunities to allow for someone like me to be able to sit in this role is something I don't forget on any day of the week. And I appreciate this opportunity. Thank you all for the chance to leave my hometown. You brought up affordable housing.

I know it's a centerpiece of why you ran. It's a centerpiece of what you've been trying to accomplish. Talk a little bit about what your plan is to deal with housing. It's something we hear about, obviously, everywhere we go in California, but frankly, across the country these days. Well, I'm glad you say that because it's not just a California thing. You know, one of the best parts of my job is I get to be involved in the U.S. Conference of Mayors, an extraordinary organization, nonpartisan. We just come together frequently to talk about issues, and it's striking to me that across this country, this is a common concern. There are homeless people all throughout this country, not just in big urban cities on the coast where the weather's good. And with regard to housing, you know, I know this personally, I'm a tenant in my,

I'm the mayor of the city, but I don't own a home in my city. It's not because I don't want to, but it's because the cost of entry is so ridiculous. And you all pay me plenty. I'm not complaining about my salary, but I am complaining about the fact that we are simply not building enough housing. So Dan, the answer to your question is we must build more homes, period, full stop. Please call my office in the morning. We can work on that. So how do you do that? Well, a number of things.

Number one is you have to zone for it. And I think one of my challenges is that I have a city and a city council that's willing to zone for this stuff. I heard someone say ADUs, granny flats, casitas, whatever your favorite term is. That's a form of housing that we don't invest in. There's no taxpayer money in it. But it does represent new housing that is reasonably attainable that doesn't exclude people who make too much for low-income housing but can't afford the luxury stuff that we build aplenty. So you have to zone for this. You have to permit for this.

I heard the comment about permits. And I would say that one of the things that I've been a part of is making sure that we are actually staffing the government correctly. Dan, when I took over as mayor three years ago, 20% of the positions in our permit department were vacant. No one was working there. So if you were calling about your permit, you had a one in five chance that no one was ever going to return your call. So guess what? You have to pay your public employees enough to actually want to do the job. It's pretty simple. So you do the zoning, you do the permitting so that you actually get a permit a reasonable amount of time.

Quick story, in my State of the City address this year, I've signed an executive order saying that we would permit 100% affordable housing projects in 30 days or less. Shout out to our city employees. They're doing it in 12 days, Dan. They're doing it. It's possible. Zoning, permits, and then we have to have folks step up and move forward and it does necessarily require change in neighborhoods that's really challenging i was with a group of folks this morning that aren't very happy about that but the answer is is that we can't just get ours and then pull up the the drawbridge and say good luck to you we have to leave the door of opportunity open for folks who are willing to work hard. And that's where my mind is at as mayor.

So people who advocate for more affordable housing, for building, for zoning, run into obstacles all across the place. The San Diego City Council rejected your wide-ranging housing plan recently. What happens now? Why did they reject it? What happens now? What are you going to do to try to get it through? Well, they did reject it, but watch this space because next week they're going to pass it. We've got to do this. The council knows that. We had an honest disagreement about a couple of, essentially three technical issues.

The challenge with politics, particularly local government, is that we have to have open meetings. Our work is done out in the open. And when people are grumpy or have a bad day or just have an honest disagreement, that happens in front of everyone's highs. And so we will bring that back and we'll get it done. But, you know, ultimately, what we have is a council to a person that understands we have to build more housing. And while we can quibble about small things like inclusionary zoning offset requirements and like facilities. At the end of the day, no one on that council is unaware of the fact

that we must build more homes. And I believe when we bring this before the council next week, it'll pass. Fun fact, we call it our housing action package 2.0 because 1.0 was passed. It has been implemented 2.0. And you better believe there will be a 3.0 and a 4.0 until we get a functional

housing economy in the city where working people who want to be here can actually find a place they can afford and importantly, buy. Because what I'm really concerned about is too many folks maybe be able to find a way to rent, but then they can't find a place to buy. And the inability to build wealth, raise a family, find a future for themselves is one of the ways that cities like mine will not win the future. This is why I am so animated about making sure that we can build housing that people can afford. One of the narratives about California

that the right-wing media likes to push is to talk about the homelessness crisis in the state. The way it's always talked about is that no one is trying to do anything about it. I know it's something that you ran on, something you worked on. Talk about what you've been doing to alleviate homelessness in San Diego. Yeah. Well, let me say very clearly that homelessness is the most complex problem for which people

crave a simple solution, and there isn't one. You might get charlatans that try and suggest that there are. We have a former president running around talking about concentration camps out in the wilderness for people. That is not going to work. These people are not criminal. They're poor. They're sick. They need help. And they're still citizens in our government, in our community. They can't be incarcerated for simply being poor. What we're doing is exactly right. Exactly. What we're doing as a city is an all-hands-on-deck approach. So we talk a lot about housing is an all-hands-on-deck approach. So we talk a lot about housing because housing is what ends homelessness,

but building housing is not quick, even when you expedite stuff, right? And we have people who have urgent needs today. So in the last three years, we have grown our shelter capacity in the city of San Diego by over 70%. We're diversifying our portfolio to have congregate, non-congregate, senior-only, women women only, LGBTQ youth. We've stood up our first safe sleeping sites, which is sanctioned outdoor encampments. Dan, I want to tell you, this is not something personally I'm very comfortable with.

I feel like in an organized society, you live indoors. But what I know is this form of shelter options is actually really attractive to this population. And we're often told no for some other options. Folks are saying yes to this option. And the best part about that is that when they come into these safe sleeping sites, we provide the wraparound services that address the underlying causes of their homelessness and get them on their way to permanent housing that ends their homelessness. Long story short, outreach, shelter, housing, that's how you do it. And I recognize that it is fun to demonize cities. They make it about democratic cities.

They make it about coastal cities. They make it about cities with great weather. But the fact of the matter is every city is dealing with this. And while it's fun to say that no one's doing anything, I'm the chair of the California Big City Mayors Coalition, the biggest 13 cities in the state of California. All of us are working aggressively on this issue. None of us have found the perfect solution, but all of us, including my city, are getting thousands of people off the streets every single year. And that's something that's to be applauded and shout out to every homeless shelter worker, outreach worker. Those people do incredible work and they

don't get nearly enough thanks or pay because most of these people are minimum wage workers. This problem would be infinitely worse without their hard work. All of them are doing that work. We're doing that work. They get thousands of people off the streets. But Dan, I will tell you that last year in the city of San Diego, for every 10 people we get off the streets, 13 become homeless. Our growing housing crisis in terms of affordability means that this year that number is for every 10 I get off the streets, 16 become homeless. We've got to build more housing that is affordable for everybody, working, middle, and low-income folks. How has the local community reacted to your efforts in particular the safe sleeping encampments? It's a great question because it's a

present concern i got i got a call from the in-laws the other day because we're proposing a shelter near them and we'll see if i get invited to christmas we'll find out dan here's what i have to tell you and i really want to appreciate the chance to share this with your audience particularly the san diegans who are here when we proposed our first safe sleeping site at the corner of 20th and B at an old city operations yard, it's in the neighborhood of Golden Hill, great neighborhood I represented on the city council. There were extreme concerns from that community. We opened the shelter, and I'm here to tell you that for three, four months into operation, there are no concerns. It is operating

well. Olat, our second one, it's in Balboa Park, our city's crown jewel. You know Central Park, you know the Smithsonian, they've got nothing on Balboa Park. It is better than both of those places. When Olat was proposed, the institutions were also very, very concerned. It's now operating. It is doing well. The concerns are not there. And what has happened is the folks who were previously encamped in Balboa Park or in Golden Hill are not there anymore. They're inside safe. They're getting the services and they're getting on their pathway to getting into permanent housing. We have to do more of that. We have to do it over and over again until there's no one that's living on our sidewalks. We are too wealthy a city, a state, and nation to have people living in filth on our sidewalks, in our parks, in the public right of way. One of the issues that voters all across the country are talking about, pollsters say it is,

they're telling pollsters it's a top concern right below inflation and immigration, is crime. What are you hearing from your constituents about crime and what do they want you to do about it? There are a lot of concerns. San Diego showed a 7% reduction in violent crime in the last year. I'm very proud of our police department and everyone working in the effort of both preventing crime and responding to it. But when I tell that to San Diegans, I recognize a lot of them don't believe it. And it's largely, I think, because of the homelessness crisis. While being homeless is not a crime, it does convey a level of disorder that is concerning to people.

And I'm here to say that we have to be very clear as progressives, as Democrats, as mayors, to say very simply that we will not lawlessness, will not rule the day in our cities. If you're a criminal, that there will be consequences. I think there's a lot of concerns about whether or not there's consequences for significant crimes and even for modest ones. Organized retail theft is a problem. You want to go to Target and get a bottle of shampoo

without having to call somebody to come get it for you. That is not too much to ask in this country. And that's not where we're at today. And I think there's a lot of reasons why that's happening. Some of it's about policy. Some of it's about the way those retailers operate but altogether we have to do more about this and that means we have to fully fund our police department we have to make sure that there are consequences for illegal behavior and yes we have to make sure

that we work on the prevention side and on the treatment side on the back end but comprehensively we have to own this issue I refuse to let a party that allows weapons of war and illegal guns into our neighborhoods claim that they are anti-crime. They are not anti-crime. We are anti-crime. We will keep Americans safe. So the mayor has very graciously agreed to play a game with us a little later in the show. has very graciously agreed to play a game with us a little later in the show. It's a ridiculous game. Sorry, I apologize in advance.

But, please give, he'll be back in a little bit, but first, please give it up for your mayor. When we come back, more news. All right, guys, let's talk about the only two candidates who actually have a chance of winning the 2024 election, at least as of right now. Joe Biden and Donald Trump. So the president said at a fundraiser this week that, quote, if Trump wasn't running, I'm not sure I'd be running. When asked the next day if he believed any other Democrats could beat Trump, Biden said, quote, probably 50 of them. I'm not the only one who could defeat him, but I will defeat him.

Meanwhile, Donald Trump participated in a town hall hosted by Sean Hannity, who tried to give Trump a chance to deny reports that he intends to rule like a dictator if he wins. Let's see what happened. But I want to be very, very clear on this. To be clear, do you in any way have any plans whatsoever, if reelected president, to abuse power, to break the law, to use the government to go after people? You mean like they're using right now? You are promising America tonight. You would never abuse power as retribution against anybody.

Except for day one. Except for? He's going crazy. except for day one except for he's going crazy except for day one meaning i want to close the border and i want to drill that's not a drill that's not that's not retribution all right it's not retribution before you just they'd never seen stools before they'd never sat on them before they don't know how to sit in stools uh their legs were crazy to be fair stools are scary st were crazy. To be fair, stools are scary. Stools are very scary. Sam, what did you make of that answer? Was it a joke? Was it a troll?

Was it a refusal to state clearly that he would suspend the Constitution? This is the thing about Donald Trump, and we should know this by now, from the team that brought you the almost coup. Donald Trump walks like a joke, and he talks like a joke, and he quacks like a joke,

but once he's there, it's not a joke. It's a joke till it's not. And he said it. He said it. And I just feel like, who's fooled by this at this point? We know what he did. It was not a joke when he literally tried to kick out

every trans person in the military. Remember that? It was not a joke when he tried to block residents from seven Muslim countries. It was not a joke when he put kids in cages. It's not a joke.

And so like, just because it's funny doesn't mean it's a joke. Donald Trump is funny. He is not a joke. He's not he's not so biden's campaign uh jumped all over this right away they responded by saying donald trump has been telling us exactly what he'll do if he's re-elected and tonight he would have bought greenland if he could what's that remember that greenland he was like i want to buy greenland if he could have done it he? Remember that? Greenland? He was like, I want to buy Greenland.

If he could have done it, he would have done it. I forgot about Greenland. Remember that? Yeah. Well, I mean, sorry. I'm a broken clock. I'm a stop now. So...

Greenland. He's been telling us exactly what he'll do if he's reelected. And tonight he said he'll be a dictator on day one. Americans should believe him. Dan, what do you think about the Biden campaign's decision to hit back on this? Do the Biden folks want this fight?

How would you talk about it if you were them? I think the Biden folks want to wake up every single day. And their main goal is to remind people of what Donald Trump in the White House is like. Because all the polling shows that a significant percentage of the population has forgotten that fact. And because, you know, Biden always says, don't compare me to the Almighty, compare me to the alternative. Right now, people are comparing Joe Biden to the Almighty. It's an up or down referendum on whether they are happy with the state of affairs in this country. Not a choice between a good, decent person who has done a really good job under tough circumstances, and a narcissistic

clown who ran this country on the ground and wants to get an office so we can take away your healthcare, take away your reproductive freedom, and do a whole bunch of other really terrible shit. And so I think that is the right choice. The dictator comments from Trump is a trap. We've all worked for candidates. We can all sort of see the strings behind the puppet here and what happened, which is everyone knew this question was coming. I'm sure Hannity told them it was coming. Definitely told them, yeah.

And so they told the Trump campaign advisor, the Trump campaign advisor said, the way to do this is to say you're going to abuse authority for really popular things like securing the border and making gas cheaper, which is what drill would be drill is not actually for, but that's what it means to some set of segment of people. And so the trap here is strength is, so the way I would talk about this as a banking man is we have to recognize that strength is the vector upon which American politics is decided, right? The candidate who wins in the polling as the stronger leader almost always wins the election up and down the ballot.

And right now, Donald Trump has an 11 point advantage over Biden on strong leader. In 2020, Biden had a four point advantage. And if what, if the way we talk about this is Donald Trump later. In 2020, Biden had a four-point advantage. And if the way we talk about this is Donald Trump's going to come in, he's going to abuse authority, he's going to do all these things, that communicates strength to some segment of voters. Not us, not the Chris Christie fans out there, but a segment of voters. And in a world in which, you know, Bill Clinton once said, when people are uncertain and they feel anxiety, they would rather choose strong and wrong than weak and right. And that is the most trenchant analysis of how Donald Trump has come to power in the United States is that right there. And so when we talk about Donald

Trump, we cannot amplify strength. We have to explain that his authoritarian impulses, the fact that he's a bully, comes not from strength but from weakness, that he is insecure, the fact that he's a bully comes not from strength but from weakness. That he is insecure. That he is a coward. That he bows down to dictators. He takes his marching orders from CEOs. When times get tough, he hides behind his Twitter account or his social account these days.

That's who he is. So I think that's why we talk about him. Two, when we talk about how Trump would abuse power, we have to make it a matter in people's lives, right? If it is just about how he's going to, in the esoterically weaponized government, to attack his opponents, it has to be about how it really affects people. Because, and this is the third thing we have to be very careful of, is we all say that Donald Trump is going to destroy democracy, he's going to light it on fire. And that is an absolutely true statement. But for a significant portion of the American populace, when we say

that, we are talking about the fact that what Donald Trump is going to do is he's going to upend a political system that many of them feel is corrupt and not serving their interests. And so that's why you have to make it a matter to people, right? It can't just be about that Donald Trump's going to destroy democracy because that makes us the defenders of the status quo. It's going to have to be what him destroying democracy does affects you. And so there are a couple of ways to do that. One is to explain that Donald Trump is, he is going to abuse power to help himself and

his rich friends and not you. He's going to be so obsessed with re-litigating the 2020 election, he's not gonna help you lower your costs, raise your wages, make your healthcare more affordable, make your air cleaner, your water cleaner, or any of those things. And the other way is that Donald Trump supports a extreme unpopular agenda

that could not pass Congress, right? So he's going to use every lever of power in the federal government who will violate every norm to put that agenda into place, which is what he basically said in this interview. So what is he going to do? If he can't get Congress to pass a federal abortion ban,

he's going to use the federal government to put a de facto federal abortion ban in place. If he can't repeal the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act, he is going to use the federal government to allow people to pollute our air and water. And if he can going to use the federal government to make to allow people to pollute our air and water and if he can't even if he can't get the congress to repeal the affordable care act he is going to make it almost impossible to get to access affordable

quality care in this country it's going to affect you he cares so much about himself he's not going yeah i do think i mean the challenge is talking about donald trump attacking democracy and talking about defending democracy it can be a bit of an esoteric topic and say what does democracy mean i think if you ask people like do you want to live in a dictatorship, the percentage that say yes, probably higher than we'd like. But also, a big, huge majority would say no. And sure enough, like, there was a report about this whole dictatorship thing where Trump's campaign apparently is, like, getting a little nervous about this. And they don't want him to be called a dictator. And so they like called up all their allies on Capitol Hill and they were like, you have to push back on the whole dictator stuff. And we've been talking about the Heritage Foundation.

They're doing this Project 2025 where basically they're laying out all of what Trump's plans are going to be in the White House and how he's going to get rid of the civil service and all the non-political employees and just stack the whole government with Trump loyalists and apparently Trump's campaign manager called them and yelled at them and was like do not report on your plans because if you tell people he's going to abuse power and do all this shit we're not too happy about that like we don't think it's going to help us in a general election so they are worried about it but you're, like, when we talk about it, every time you talk about it, you have to connect it to how it could affect people's lives. And I do think, like, living in a dictatorship is affecting people's lives directly. But all the other things he's going to do are also affecting people's lives directly. And, by the way, that's why I thought it was smart that he turned it to drilling and closing the border because he was like, oh, they're calling me a dictator.

I'm a dictator because I just want to I want to control immigration and I want to and I want to make sure that, you know, that we're we're energy independent. Well, that's what that's what being a dictator is. Sure, I'm a dictator. But I think laying out how bad of a dictator Trump would be is not enough. And I feel like Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have a number of opportunities to showcase what they're doing for actual American people. And I'm like, I want to hear it more. I want to hear it more. This week, they just forgave how many more billions of dollars of student debt? How many more billions? I forget the exact number, but a lot.

Eight. There you go. Just a few weeks ago, Papa Joe was out there with striking auto workers in solidarity for higher wages. Just this week, the Biden White House is talking about seizing drug company patents to lower drug prices. Sing it from the rooftops. And also abortion.

I just like, it will never be enough to tell people how bad Donald Trump is, because everyone already knows, and they still voted for him. And I don't know what it takes for Joe Biden and his crew to really glom onto a strong affirmative message.

What does it take? I mean, yeah, you're right. But also it's really hard to get it covered, especially when, you know, you have the showman on one side,

you have this primary fake primary happening on this. There's just like, it's a crowded space, but you're right. I mean, if more people knew about what he'd done, I do think they would like it. Yeah.

I also, but the challenge is elections are always about the future and not the past, and they're always about a choice. Except when you have your student loans forgiven. I don't know. It's the future. It's your future. Right. But if you're someone who hasn't had your student loans forgiven,

and you hear that other people have, and you're like, where the hell are my student loans? Then you're going to go into the ballot box, and're going to say all right i have a choice between two candidates and what the biden campaign needs to do is say look we have been fighting to relieve your student loans we did it for some people you put us back in office we're going to do more yeah what they're going to do is everything we've done to uh uh forgive student loans they're going to undo it right everything we did to make prescription drugs cost lower they're going to undo it, right? Everything we did to make prescription drugs costs lower, they're going to undo it.

They've promised that they're going to do it. So you can vote for us, and we're going to keep fighting to help people just like you, even though we haven't done enough yet. We've had a down payment on it. We're going to keep fighting. And if you do that, we're going to go back, and they're going to undo everything that we did.

They're going to take away your health care. They're going to make sure there's a nationwide abortion ban right so i just like everything has to be the choice and it has to be like what's going to happen not just what has happened yeah i think um tommy axios is reporting that trump wants a cabinet and white house full of people uh who have demonstrated a commitment to quote stretch legal and governance boundaries. Great way of putting it. Cool.

And he and his team are already floating some names. Stephen Miller for Attorney General. Steve Bannon for Chief of Staff. Kash Patel for CIA. And apparently Melania Trump's pick for vp tucker carlson now tommy do you think democrats can and should make an issue out of who might serve in a in a second trump administration or is this just fodder for all of us here and they should just stick to Trump himself? I mean, the challenge, right, is he hasn't officially named these people

so they could deny it or say, what are you talking about? You're being hysterical. But let's play it out and talk about how you might make these people the main character, because Republicans are very good at making fringe characters the main character, right? We spent years at the Obama White House watching Fox News demagogue random people we worked with in the EEOB or whatever. So Steve Bannon and Kash Patel, you guys probably might not know who Kash Patel is. He's this guy who worked for Devin Nunes. He was installed in various national security jobs. He was steve bannon's podcast recently and they were talking about how they are going to go after judges lawyers members of the media and prosecute them for i guess accurately reporting that joe biden won the 2020 election

like this is this is literally the conversation they had and they're bragging about it. They're boasting about it. Like this is the message they want to put out there is this like vindictive, you know, we are going to punish the people you hate message. I don't think folks will like that. I think that's something that's worth talking about. I think the idea of Tucker Carlson as vice president, like it's just like so manifestly unserious. This is a man who got fired by Fox news. I don't think people will like that outside of like a small sliver of a MAGA base. So I do think you can make these personnel part of a broader story about the

extremism of a second Trump term and how much worse it could be, but it will take some serious education and it will take like a media apparatus, like a Fox news to really educate people about who these folks are first and then why they should care. Yeah. Love it. Congrats. You get the Joe Biden question. His two comments about running got a lot of coverage. Do you think he said anything new there? And what is his best answer to that question about other democrats beating trump aside from just saying that there are 50 so i found this whole thing very silly and stupid

i understand why it got pulled out and kind of turned into a story but really he's just was saying in a slightly different way what he said for literally years since before 2020, which is he was motivated to run in 2020 because he genuinely believed that Donald Trump presented such a danger and that he believed he was the right person, despite the objections of a lot of people in the media, a lot of people in the Democratic establishment, a lot of people that doubted that Joe Biden was the right figure. Joe Biden said, no, I'm going to fight for this whole country. I believe I'm the right person. And he wins the nomination and he wins the presidency.

And he does, if nothing else, save the country from Donald Trump. He does that. And a lot of people said he couldn't, and he did it. We end up in this situation where he says he's going to pass the torch, and we get closer and closer, and he decides, no, he's going to run again. Why? Well, because the same logic that applied in 2020 applied now. He looked out and he thought, given the threat that the Republicans pose, given the threat that Donald Trump poses, the same logic applies. And so he's being honest. What he's saying is I am running because I believe Donald Trump is this threat. And if I,

and if, and if he wasn't in the race, I might not do it because I'm a very old fucking man. I'm a very old man and I'm running for president and I'm a little too old than I should be. But I'm the best you've got and I'm going to fucking win. And that's what he's saying. Now, when he says other people could also defeat Donald Trump. Fine. When he's saying he would stay in the race, otherwise fine. I just, ultimately, this is a news cycle in the same way that the fake Republican debate is a news cycle because we're marching towards Trump versus Biden and reporters are a little bit bored.

Yeah, but I think this is practice for a general. And I think if Joe Biden walked into this general arguing logic and not mojo, he's in trouble. And I think that that whole shtick of, well, 50 other people could do it. The first thing I respond with is, well, then why not them? You can't do that. I don't know. I don't like it. I don't think it's good. And I think that like if I were advising Joe Biden, I'd say I'm running again because I have the most experience. I'm a proven leader. I've done all these things and I want to do more. Well, you said,

that's exactly what he said. But then just say that. Don't say, don't say there are 50 other guys. Who are the 50? Don't say there are 50 other guys. Can we name them? No, I don't think there are 50.

I think it's Josh Shapiro. You love that guy. I love that guy. Chris Christie. A Jew that can fix a highway in two weeks? Sign me up. I just feel like given the issues that already exist around the way voters think about his age and fitness for office,

everything you say from now until next November should be aware of that. Yeah. And saying there's 50 other guys ain't the way, buddy. It's not the way. Sorry. The Times did a longer story on this, and they interviewed Ron Klain, Biden's last chief of staff, and they asked him, and he was like, yeah, maybe there are other democrats in the country that could do it but joe biden's the only person who has beaten donald trump and so i think he can say that

again i'm like yeah that's the answer that's the right answer there are 50 other guys yes i think that look there's a certain mode joe biden has when he's walking out of a room while people are shouting and the door's about to close. And and that's and that's when he tries stuff. That's when he gets loose. That's what he does. That's when he does his material. That's when he tests out his road stuff.

And like sometimes it plays and sometimes it doesn't. As the door closes, he'll say something like, God, love him. It's always the last. Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Always the last question that gets you. The whole thing is so stupid. It's so fucking dumb.

Because as Lowe pointed out, this was the exact thing that Joe Biden said in 2019 when he decided to run. And I think definitely he could have answered the cleanup of the question better by simply saying, yes, other people could beat him, but I think I give us the best chance. Full stop. Yeah, that's it.

But it doesn't matter. Joe Biden is going to be the nominee. And all of these questions are entirely theoretical and unanswerable. Because either Joe Biden wins and he has proven that he's the one who gave us the best chance to beat Trump, or he loses and we'll never know if someone else could have done better. That is the thing. Like, that is just how it is. Dean Phillips erasure.

Another friend of the pod the the i don't know that he likes you guys no i don't but that's a one-way one-way show with chris christie yeah but the uh i do think that like it's there are there are certain theoretical questions that seem to kind of kind of excite political journalism right now and i do think it's like the theoretical questions around Biden and what would happen if he wasn't running are more interesting than the fact that Trump and his associates are basically saying they're going to prosecute journalists. And I do think at a certain point, I wish that that theoretical possibility would be as exciting.

And maybe it will be. The amount of news that came out of that comment from Joe Biden is a massive indictment of just how bored the press corps is right now. Yeah. But also what we're going to face for a year. Plus. Plus. Yeah. are more consequence for the future than joe biden's decision making process on a decision he has already made to in a race in which the primary deadlines have passed for most of the states so it's like what are we doing yeah i just i just feel like though and i know i'm being a

dead horse every bit of bad tape is an attack ad every bit of bad tape just like stop doing that joe well he can't he's been doing it for 50 fucking years i know i know but you know what i still hold our hope he's he's he's 81 he's 81 years old and he's doing his best but i well and i think to like love it's point about trying things out like i really do think that all of these comments are about sort of him he's facing all of this like why are you doing this again you're very oh blah blah like he does have a rationale like you can tell is that the the man genuinely believed he is genuinely scared of a second trump term he he thinks that democracy is at stake i do not doubt that at all and i'm sure he has weighed in his mind yes maybe i'm not the one to do it but also is there someone

else who can do it i've already beaten don Trump, and I feel so strongly about this, and I feel so strongly about protecting the country and saving democracy, that even knowing all the risks, I feel like I should do this. And by the way, that is exactly what he was saying when he made the point that they took out of context, and is what he will be saying for the rest of this race. And at some point, and at some point, look, do I wish Joe Biden were younger? I wish it every morning. But at some point, that's your first wish. But at some point, look, do I want Joe Biden to be a little better on message? Sure. Another thing I wish for every morning, about as likely as getting younger. But but some of this isn't Joe Biden biden's problem it's our problem and i do think that like once we get to the point if we assuming we are heading towards this when it is joe biden

versus donald trump the time for questions about should joe biden have run will is he the right person all that stuff our job was must be to do everything we can to make that fall away and make it a focus on the actual threat donald trump and the actual choice, as John pointed out. That's our job. That is exactly right. Look, Joe Biden is making a very big bet that he can overcome the very serious and legitimate, I think, concerns about his age with a large swath of the electorate. He absolutely can. But we also have to recognize that there is no person walking this planet that we were to if Joe Biden were to say, I'm not running, we were there's no primary. We just lay hands on that person and we say this person is a Democratic nominee.

Okay, I didn't that was out of my bingo card. Dean Phillips's wife is here, right? But no matter who we pick has a very, very real possibility of losing to Donald Trump. We live in a polarized country with electoral college that skews Republican. And so it doesn't matter if it's Joe Biden, Josh Shapiro, Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton,

Barack Obama, there's a chance in that race, Donald Trump could win. And there, so there is no, there's no option that means no anxiety for 2024. There's no work for 2024. And so

that is the reality in which we live. All I'm saying is, and I'm going to leave it here, I promise. All I'm saying is next time Joe gets asked a question like that, maybe Joe just says I'm the only one who's ever beaten Donald Trump and I'm the only one who can do it again.

How about that? That would be good. How about that? Well, he's a frequent listener. I'm sure he's going to hear this. So we're good. When we come back... They print it out for him.

Wow. And we push our interview request back another week. When we come back, it's time for a game. And we're back. Now, we wanted to play a game with all of you in this holiday season, but before we do, it is the first night of Hanukkah. Producer Kira is going to come on out. Kira! We have a menorah, a Hanukkiah.

All right, here we go. First night of Hanukkah. Take us away. All right. And please join in if you know the words. Baruch atah Adonai. Eloheinu melech haolam. Asher ki tshanu bat mitzvotav. B'tzivanu.

L'hadlikner Shel Hanukkah My mom is getting stoked. As our ancestors did all those years ago, we pressed the button on the on the target

menorah and light light the first candle. We did it. Here, everybody. All right. All right, everybody. The holiday season is upon us, and with it brings the perfect synergy of gay and straight culture.

Cutting down a tree with an ax and then decorating it with twinkling lights. Braving the ice and snow to sing three-part harmonies outside an old folks' home. The fact that French Santa is called Papa Noel. I don't get that one. So we thought it would be a perfect opportunity

to bring back a beloved Ponce of America game, Gays vs. Straight, this time for a very Gays vs. Straight holiday edition. First up, we have our straights. You know them. John, Tommy, and Dan. My sweet boys are going to go over here. Sam, you might go over there, please.

Sam will be joined by the mayor. Please come on out. Gays for the win. And we would love where's Punnett gonna go and we would love if somebody can we bring the lights up for a second

and we would love if somebody from the audience whose sexual orientation is anything other than crate and barrel registry that's anything less straight than that does count Olivia is out there. Someone right up here, Olivia.

And you better be gay-gay. Come on up. Come on up. For real gay. Nice. I like the bells. Hi. Hi.

We got a check. We got a check. We got a check. Hi, what's your name? Um, bisexual. No, no, sure. What a beautiful name. Is that Eastern European? Do I have to prove it?

You don't have to say your name. Wait, can you? Where's the woman? No, you can give any. No, I'm saying, what's your name? Oh, can you... Who's the woman? No, you can give any... No, I'm saying, what... You can just... What's your name?

Oh, my name is Hailey. Hailey, great. Thank you. Hailey, we have a test for you. Okay. To prove your queerness. Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready.

Name two Troye Sivan songs. Oh, Rush and... Beep. Yeah, that's true. That beep was hard. What did I listen to in... What did I listen to in middle... What did you listen to in middle school? That's bisexual enough.

We're good. Okay, thank you. All right. We're going to count it. Here's how the game works. Vi is only like 50% gay, right? So do I get 50% of that answer? I can't jump into that one.

That's for y'all. The gay team will answer the straightest Christmas questions we could muster and the straight team will naturally queen out with some gay questions. Alright. Are you ready?

The dog is gay. Come on over! Come on, sweetie. We gotcha. She's definitely gay. Alright. Oh my goodness. I'm going to start with the gays It's that easy Time for the first question for the gays

This season, a Christmas song hit number one on the Billboard 100 65 years after its release in 1965 The longest journey for a song to become a number one hit What is the song? Haley? You got it

By Brindley Alright boys song. Haley? Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree. You got it. Yes. Barbara Lee. Brindley. Alright, boys. My beige stallions. Sorry. I regretted it. I just gotta try stuff. Brindley's Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree dethroned what extremely gay Christmas song from the top of the Billboard Holiday

Chart this year? Mariah Carey. You got it. dethroned what extremely gay Christmas song from the top of the Billboard holiday chart this year? Oh. Mariah Carey. You got it. You got it. All right, gays. And bisexuals. Mayor gays.

And noted bisexuals. Thank you. We see you. You're here. Gays and gays. That's just, I like that one. This year, Shudder released a gay slasher film in which like that one. This year,

Shudder released a gay slasher film in which the... Wait. This year, boys. This year, Shudder released a gay slasher film in which the protagonist meets an evil angel in a play on a classic Christmas movie set in Bedford Falls, New York. What is this queer-ass parody called? I'm sorry.

There's a parody gay film. I'll give you a hint. It's an old film. All right? It's a play on It's a parody gay film. All right. I'll give you his an old film. All right. So in it, there's a play on. It's a wonderful life. You're so close to play on. It's a wonderful life. It's a wonderful wonderful wife.

So all try a rhyme. Oh, it's nice. Yes. Tommy, you got it. Thank you. Tommy. Good job. We got a lot of help there. We got a lot of help from love. It was. It's a wonderful knife. Yes, Tommy got it We got a lot of help there you got a lot of help from love it it was it's a wonderful knife as streets do it's a Wonderful knife never heard of it

straight culture All right Gays and bys and days And the dog and the dog what goat like? Thank you. And the dog. And the dog. What goat-like anthropomorphic beast from European folklore reportedly assists St. Nicholas each December

by beating naughty children with a birch rod? The mayor's... You know this. Hayley, you know this. Is it... What's the one in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe? No. Krumpus?

Aslan? Wait, say... Krumpus? Krumpus? Yes! You got it! What is Krumpus. Krumpus. You got it. What is Krumpus? In the 2020 lesbian Christmas movie

Happiest Season, Kristen Stewart's planned proposal for Mackenzie Davis is thrown for a loop by what beloved bisexual actress? That's right. I'll give you a hint. She was on Parks and Rec. They get a lot of hints.

Yeah, they do get a lot of hints they're straight and this is America wow wow I think it's only fair for the next question y'all are allowed to just tell us the answer Parks and Rec Deadpan not an Esplanade

but a Aubrey Plaza Correct There we go I didn't know Aubrey Plaza Famous Delawarean Aubrey Plaza If you know it

whisper loud There is nothing gayer to my gay team than making a cake that looks like something else What is a Bouch Noel and what does it look like? I may have said it wrong

Shut up I'm Jewish A Bouch Noel? Bouch Noel? Bouch Noel? Bouch Noel What is a bouche de Noël and what does it look like? I may have said it wrong. Shut up. I'm Jewish. A bouche de Noël? A bouche de Noël? A bouche de Noël? A bouche de Noël? Shut up! What?

A log. A log. It looks like a log. It's a log. Yay! Log. There we go. Yeah. Thank you.

That was very Great British Baking. Cher went number one with a single off her brand new Christmas album titled simply Christmas, meaning she has gone number one with at least one Billboard chart in seven decades. Number one in seven fucking decades. That's cool. Cher's cool. What is the name of this most recent song? I'm going to read you a few options.

Okay. Perfect. Is it A, DJ Play A Christmas song. B, I like Christmas. C, drop top sleigh ride with Tyga. Or D, Christmas. D? D? I know which one it is.

D? What do you got? Yeah. D. No. No. A. It. A. It is A.

DJ play a Christmas song. It's a horrible song and I love it. Your instincts are gay. In the 2000 Jim Carrey film The Grinch, who stole Christmas? I said that wrong. Listen. Wow.

Oh my God. Crushing this. Crushing this. Crushing this game. Here we go. Here we go. It's great to be in Phoenix. All right. The Grinch experiences a connection with Who Woman.

That's actually correct. That one just sounds weird. Martha May Juvier. She is played by what incredible character actress? This is not a game where you shout out things you know. Yes, it is. What is it? It's Christine Baranski.

It is Christine Baranski. Yes. That was a straight question? I don't know what happened to the straight question. It's Christine Baranski. That's a straight question? I don't know what happened to the straight question. It's Christine Baranski. That's a great question. They're all gay questions. They're all gay questions now.

The future liberals won. Yeah, this is the future liberals won. Which Christmas song features the lyric, Don we now our gay apparel? We wish you a Merry Christmas. Oh, Dan Gahal. Oh, wow. Wow.

War on Christmas right there. Jesus Christ. Nothing worse than anything. Confident but wrong. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Reminds me for whatever reason of, confident or wrong reminds me of

strength plus experience equals change. Remember that? Hillary Clinton slogan from back in the day. Deep cut. So good of strength plus experience equals change. Remember that? Hillary Clinton slogan from back in the day? Deep cut. So good. Strength plus experience equals change. Change divided by strength plus experience equals one. Strength minus change equals negative experience.

Which people wouldn't know. All right, final question. Whoever gets it right wins the whole fucking thing. We're winning. We're already winning, though. What does it feel like, Haley? But what about us? I thought we were winning. This is the mayor of San Diego.

We're winning. Bam. Good point. Okay. Also, we're gay, so we have to win. And bisexual. Thank you. And I voted for him. win. Yes. And bisexual. Thank you. And I voted for him.

Oh, nice. Thank you. Thank you. I love it. Let's get it. In 2021, Netflix released a gay Christmas rom-com in which a man played by Michael Urie asked his best friend played by, played by, I don't even know who this is. Doesn't matter.

To pretend to be his boyfriend at his nosy family's Christmas party with adorable results. What is the name of that rom-com? That's right. But I'll give you a hint. The title is a play on words referencing a Christmas song. That's what they said. That's what they said.

Yes. And just like that, the queers have it. That's so funny. Give it up for the mayor of San Diego. We won. He won. You won. You're fine.

Fine. The gays win. The gays win. The straights get nothing. That's our game. And that's our show. Thanks to the mayor of San Diego. That's to Sam Sanders.

Thank you, Haley. Thank you for coming. Thanks to Pundit. Thanks to our mayor of San Diego. That's to Sam Sanders. Thank you, Haley. Thank you for coming. Thanks to Pundit. Thanks to our bisexual. Good job, Pundit. Bye. Love you, Mina. Hot Save America is a Crooked Media production.

Our producers are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producer is Farrah Safari. Writing support from Hallie Kiefer. Reid Cherlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, David Toles, Kirill Pelleviv, and Molly Lobel. Subscribe to Pod Save America on YouTube to catch full episodes and extra video content. Find us at youtube.com slash at Pod Save America. Finally, you can join our friends at the pod subscription community for

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