Pod Save America - “Dan’s imaginary SuperPAC.” (LIVE in Durham)

Episode Date: February 11, 2019

Shutdown negotiations falter as Trump takes his demagoguery to El Paso, Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar formally launch their presidential campaigns, and “The Best of Enemies” star Taraji P. Henson joins Jon, Jon, Tommy, and Dan live on stage in Durham, North Carolina.

What's up Durham? What's up Durham? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. Guys, Brittany Packnett wanted to be here, but she got stuck in Minneapolis, I think.

Yeah. Snowstorm. We probably should have routed her through Atlanta. Yeah. Not Minnesota. She tried every flight she could. She's very sad. She says hello.

I know. But later in the show, we will talk with the star of the upcoming film, The Best of Enemies, which is based on events that took place right here in Durham. Taraji P. Henson is here. But first, here's something fun. We are less than a week away from another government shutdown. So, Congress has Friday, just kind of

snuck up on us, didn't it? Congress has until Friday to reach a deal on border security funding, and both parties are currently saying that negotiations have broken down over Republican demands for more barriers and more detention beds that would allow ICE to detain more immigrants. President Trump has threatened to declare a national emergency if he doesn't get somewhere around $5 billion in wall funding, which is a non-starter for Democrats. And either way, Congress still has to agree on how to fund the Department of Homeland Security and seven other government agencies by the end of the week,

or we're in another shutdown. Dan, what do you think the likeliest outcome is here? And what should the Democratic negotiating position be? I have no idea, John. I mean, if we were in a normal world with a normal president, normal Republican Party, there's a very obvious solution, which is they're working on a deal. There's no reason they couldn't pass another short-term funding extension for another week or two weeks or three weeks until they came to a

conclusion. In a normal world, that's what would happen. We just don't know whether that's something that Trump will accept and whether he will put us in another shutdown. I think Democrats have to remember that they have all the leverage here and that we should be reasonable and we should try to get the government open, but we should not feel this pressure to give Trump more than is good policy just to meet them halfway because they started all the way over here. So we don't have to get halfway to Trump. We should just be willing to move a little bit in their direction but not in a way that compromises our principles. Yeah, and it seems like what Democrats are saying here is Republicans are asking for more detention beds because they want ICE to be able to, you know, detain all of these immigrants. And I guess what Democrats are saying is, no, we should, we want ankle bracelets or other ways of getting people to their detention hearing or their immigration hearing, aside from just locking people up indefinitely, which is what we've been doing right now. And Republicans are saying, oh, no, no, that's a non-starter.

We don't want to do that. But it feels like Democrats should probably hold on that position, right? Yeah, I think they can. It's just a question of what the consequences of that will be. I don't think there's appetite among Republicans other than Trump for another shutdown. And it'd just be a question whether this will be the one time they're willing to buck him.

Yeah, I mean, it's easy to forget because he talks about it so much and he demagogues it so thoroughly that the wall is unpopular. Most of the country does not want more walls. The wall is even less popular if you say, should Trump declare a national emergency to get funding for the wall? So to Dan's point, we have the leverage. You just have to sustain a whole bunch of gratuitous attacks from the President of the United States on Twitter, which is doable. It also doesn't seem like, yeah, that seems doable. We can do that, right?

It doesn't seem like the Senate Republicans really have an appetite for another shutdown, right? Well, nobody does, except, nobody does. There's only the one person. At the center of this, there's one terrible person. You know, in reading, it's always so strange, right? The way, it's fascinating to live through someone like Donald Trump being president after the terror and the sadness.

After that. Because you see how normal things can be around everything except the most abnormal piece of all of this. You know, all these articles running you through the negotiations, you wouldn't be surprised to find similar paragraphs in articles about George W. Bush or Barack Obama. But of course, all of this is really a show, right? Like there is a legitimate policy and ideological debate about what to do at the border. And that argument does take place on the Hill. And there'll be a question as to how many beds there should be and how much money should be. Trump, the White House wants 5.7.

We want zero. It'll land at two. It'll land at three. That's all the normal politics, and that's all playing out. But at the core of this, the reason this debate is even happening, the reason the short-term extension of funding of one bureau of our massive federal government is at the core of this debate that we're having and goes to the question as to whether or not the government will even remain opening

open is because donald trump believes immigration is his only winning issue that's why we're talking about it that's why this debate is taking place so ultimately you know what should senate democrats do what do senate republicans do it seems like they in the same way that people at the white house seem to behave as though donald trump't president. You walk around behaving like normal. She's right. What? She said he's an asshole. That's the nuanced take that we bring.

But the other problem, though, is when Donald Trump, when the asshole isn't in the Oval Office and he's watching TV and tweeting on the toilet until 11 a.m., which is what he does most days, noted Duke grad Stephen Miller is doing everything he can to blow up any reasonable negotiation that might meet in the middle and prevent the government.

Right, that's ultimately the point, that all of this is a show. No matter what the number is, no matter what the negotiators say, no matter what comes out of it, no matter the huffing and the puffing what at the end of the day there will be a moment where donald trump says yes or no and it's very hard to know based on what we're seeing right now whether he'll do that that's all what time of day it's based on debate where is he on his fucking feeding schedule like how many you know what what aspect of the dollar menu has he plowed his face through? Well, I mean, one hint. Hash brown. It's an image.

It's an image. It's lovely. One hint that he is not taking these negotiations very seriously is on Monday, he's holding a campaign rally on the border in El Paso, Texas, in which I'm sure he'll call for a thoughtful compromise and appeal to our better angels. What does it say about Trump's 2020 strategy that his very first campaign rally, his very first MAGA rally of the reelect is an immigration rally at the border? I mean, does he want, doesn't it seem like he wants

this, the issue of the wall more than he wants the wall itself? It doesn't say something. It says everything about his campaign strategy. At its absolute core, Trump's campaign strategy is to scare as many white people as he can that non-white people are going to take their jobs, take their homes, commit crimes to their community. And that is what he wants to do. Even if we built the wall tomorrow, Trump would not give up the idea, the sort of... We need a bigger wall.

Yeah, add bars to the wall, make it taller. He cannot, as part of his political rationale, give up the dark story of trying to scare people like that. That always has to be there because that is the part that excites his, the 36% of voters who are his base. And that's what he needs to even make it to the starting line. And there's plenty of evidence. Like this is not a hypothetical situation. Democrats went to Donald Trump and offered him five times as much money

or four times as much money in exchange for... For border funding. For border funding in exchange for protecting the Dreamers. And it was scuttled by Trump and the right-wing fascists inside the administration

who cannot accept a deal like that. They can never accept any kind of deal. So let's talk about how Democrats should respond. So Trump's going to go to El Paso on Monday, Monday night. Potential Trump 2020 opponent Beto O'Rourke will also be speaking Monday in his hometown of El Paso at an event that's just a stone's throw away from Trump's rally. In a Medium post over the weekend, Beto's place of choice to write.

It's his canvas, John. It's his canvas. Beto wrote, Monday we will welcome the president to one of the safest cities in the United States, safe not because of walls and not in spite of the fact that we are a city of immigrants,

safe because we are a city of immigrants and because we treat each other with dignity and respect. He then goes on to list a series of detailed immigration proposals. What did you guys think of Beto's post? And broader, what is the best way for the Democratic candidates to engage on an issue that Trump sees as his strength in 2020? I thought Beto's post was good. I mean, it was very substantive. He was using the little paste-in graphs function on Medium, which, you know, is good. It's nice. But the other thing he

does, I mean, he offered some concrete policy steps and solutions. But then one thing that he never leaves out is um is trying to push both parties to stop dehumanizing immigrants and using language that is insightful it's designed to fear people all things dan was talking about which i think is an important piece of the puzzle that democrats don't always do because we can be scared of the issue so i do like the way he talks about he talks beto talks about immigration with the confidence of someone who grew up on a border town and has lived these issues his entire life and is not scared of the politics of it, which I think makes that approach a model that's worth emulating. Yeah. What do you think, Dan? So I think Democrats generally are going to be dealing with immigration the whole time.

So I think there's sort of three parts to how you deal with it. The first is we have to talk about it from a position of confidence, as Tommy said. Despite all of the tweets and the inflammatory Fox News segments and talk about the wall, the majority of Americans and a good portion of Republicans agree with Democrats on a comprehensive solution to immigration. We have to remember that always because you just read the press. It's like, oh, Trump is using his winning issue again. And that's not actually what voters think if we handle it the right way.

Well, we also, we just had an election. We just tried this out, right? He spent all of October scaring people about the caravan. Everyone got all whipped up. They said, this is Trump's strength. This is immigration. Democrats are on the run. What's going to happen?

Maybe Republicans are going to hold the house now. And it didn't work. So that's exactly right. The second part of how I think Democrats should do it is you can't let Trump set the four corners of the argument. Too often, I think Democrats, because we have approached this from fear, we immediately accept Trump scares people. And now we have to feel like we have to address that fake fear that he has driven. And so we instead of talking about the contribution that immigrants make to America and the broader issue here, we exist around this sort of fake invasion that Trump is suggesting at the border. So we can't let him decide it. And the third thing is there are other issues other than immigration. So I think we have to take it head on and then pivot. Right. And I think the way to do that is not to

like construct something where it's like Trump was talking about immigration. Immigration is also an economic issue. And here's my economic plan. I think we have to call out the game of what Trump is doing. He is trying to scare you because he wants to distract you from the fact that while he's been president, the biggest companies and the richest people have gotten richer and wages have stayed the same. That while he is screaming about the wall, he is allowing companies to make your air dirtier and your water dirtier, right? Like we have to call out what he's doing. And I think that's the way to handle as opposed to allowing him to draw us into this extended, we can't run from the argument and we can't live within this extended immigration only discussion because there's so many more things that matter to so to draw us into this extended, we can't run from the argument and we can't live within this extended

immigration only discussion because there's so many more things that matter to so many more people. Yeah, I mean, how do you think that, how do you think the Democrats should handle the issue specifically of ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement? On one hand, we know that a majority of Americans disagree with some Democratic activists and now presidential contenders who want to abolish ICE. On the other

hand, ICE is still as out of control as ever. Just this week, 200 undocumented immigrants were arrested right here in North Carolina, even though many of those immigrants lack any kind of criminal conviction or pending charges. What should Democrats do here? What should they say about ICE? Since it's clearly, like you said, it's not an issue that we're going to be able to avoid completely because Donald Trump is going to be talking about this all the time. He was in the State of the Union. He said, let's never abolish the heroes of ICE, et cetera. I think it's a really hard question to answer in a vacuum,

for the same reasons that it's hard to answer Trump's attacks on immigration in a vacuum. You know, I think to Dan's point, we shouldn't be afraid of the issue. But there's another aspect of the way Democrats are afraid of the issue. We tend to, you know, the immigration system is broken. It's been broken for a very long time. We've been talking about comprehensive immigration for a very, very long time. So much of the conversation is about how do you, how do you account for the brokenness and the consequences of that brokenness as it's existed for 30 years? That means, that means people that came here illegally. That means the children of people who came here illegally. That means people who've overstayed their visas.

That means brokenness at the border. That means enforcement inside the country. That means caps on the number of people that can come in and other kinds of rules that have no basis in our current economy and actually don't make sense at all. And so into that soup of brokenness, we end up getting dragged into conversations around the border. And then at the same time, we see terrible abuses by agencies that are kind of run amok and also kind of the thing that's sitting on top of

this entirely broken framework. And so to me, the most important thing these candidates can do is you don't need to start by taking on these little aspects or these subsets of the policy problem. What is your vision for immigration? What do you believe? If we were to do comprehensive immigration reform, what do you believe the visa system should look like? What should happen to people who overstay their visas? What should happen if we have a better system for people who do come into this country illegally? Be honest about it. Be honest about the kind of immigration you think we should have when we've dealt with the problems of the past and built something better.

And then in that context, I'm very interested to hear what candidates would say about whether it's abolishing ICE or reforming ICE or breaking ICE up, figuring out how to make the enforcement of our immigration laws more humane without giving up on the idea that we are a country that will have borders and restrictions on immigrations of some form when this is all done. And I think one of the, one thing that happened in 2016 is we only had half the conversation. We had the, we had the conversation about how to help people that have been fucked by the immigration system, people like Dreamers. And we had the conversation about how to combat Donald Trump's hateful rhetoric, but we didn't have the positive side. But what a good immigration policy, which will include enforcement, looks like, what does it actually look like? And I think if somebody can articulate that, then whether they want to abolish ICE, whether they want to reform

ICE, their views for ICE, I'm very interested in hearing. But to just talk about it in a vacuum, I think is ultimately not a good idea. Yeah. The problem is it's not a good idea, but it's a bad idea of our own making. We know that abolished ICE does not pull well. I remember talking to a bunch of Democratic candidates running Republican districts in California,

and I said, what's the one thing that you want the national party to do better for you? And they said, please stop talking about the abolished ICE movement. We're hearing about it at every event. I'm not saying that it's that makes the policy wrong, but it was just an interesting data point for me at the time. But I also think it's important to remember that ICE wasn't like mandated in the Constitution. It's an agency that emerged after 9-11 as opposed to hodgepodge of reforms. You can easily break apart and reconstitute some of the key core functions of the agency so that the really important thing they do to stop human trafficking and other law enforcement

components that we want to continue can continue, and we can try to curtail some of the really abusive things that are happening, like John was talking about in north carolina because it doesn't matter if you're republican or democratic president like there was there were stories of ice uh doing things that were completely inappropriate during the obama years and it didn't matter how many times someone from the white house called over there said cut that shit out they didn't necessarily do it so it's going to take some a lot of work i think our job is to not get caught up in slogans. And it's like, we can say very clearly when we talk about immigration, Democrats are not for open borders. We've never been for open borders. And by the way, we're also

for immigration enforcement, but we will not turn a blind eye to human rights abuses that are committed in our name by government agencies. Right. And nothing wrong with saying that. And and it's like you don't have to say you're going to abolish ICE but if there's an agency that has like run amok that's out of control which we know they were doing in the Obama administration they were not always following directives from the top and they did some horrible things in the Obama administration and now they're doing it in the Trump administration because they're being encouraged from the top and I think we need to rethink what enforcement looks like in this country, right? And do we need enforcement? Do we need to be doing workplace raids? Do we need to be setting up fake education classes so people go in

and undocumented immigrants go take a class and then use that as an excuse to arrest a whole bunch of people and deport them when they've never done anything wrong and they've been in this country forever? Like, is that what we want our immigration to be of course not so like you can easily make that argument without saying because the problem is when you tell people do you want to abolish ice and ice is how we enforce our laws in this country a lot of people are going to be like yeah i don't know if i want to abolish that no of course not and it's like it's you know i always think like when you're when you're presented with two bad options right maybe you maybe you sincerely and by the way there's incredibly good reasons for saying

if Democrats get behind a plan that involves reforming the immigration system that includes abolishing ICE, that's a really good thing. But when you're presented with two options, you can talk about abolishing ICE or defend ICE. That sucks. There's a third option. A bigger vision for what you want our immigration

system to look like. And by the way, one that I think... You've always been a champion of a third way. I love a third way. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing, guys. As a centrist, here's the deal. Let's say you have a friend and that friend wants sushi and you have another friend that wants Italian.

Some people say there's no answer. There is an answer. You take some raw tuna. You pour marinara sauce on top of it. All right? Some Parmesan cheese, little kimchi just from another culture. You know? And you have a third-way poke bowl.

Trump does have another vulnerability on this issue. The Washington Post reported this week about how Trump's golf course in Bedminster, New Jersey, was basically built and operated with the help of dozens of undocumented immigrants whose status was known to their managers the whole time. In the past several months, Trump's business fired undocumented employees from five courses after reports surfaced about their immigration status. Is this something that Democrats should be talking about in 2020? Sort of just went under the radar. We see this story and it's like... Sort of just went under the radar. We see this story and it's like... It is an example of how hard it is

to prosecute a political case against Trump in this media environment. This is a piece of information that would be very persuasive to a lot of people. They'll never see it because huge things are happening. The Mueller investigation, the government might shut down, the state of Virginia is lighting itself on fire. It's just impossible to ever focus on it for a second, right? Like, I mean, we often joke about my imaginary super

pack, but were it to exist, and if there are billionaires here, let's talk afterwards. But like what a smart Democratic campaigner super pack would do is they would run digital ads showing this story to a group of voters in key battleground states who believe that immigration is a top issue for them, but they're lukewarm on Trump. Because this is a story that is also just about Trump and immigration, but it's about something bigger as well, which is that Trump's platform is not America first, it's me first. He cares about immigration until he needs cheap labor. Yeah, I mean, no more visas for people unless

it's for Chinese investors that want to work with Jared and Ivanka and stuff like that. Or work in his winery. Right, exactly. Let's remember that. He's fine for immigration and undocumented immigration if it benefits him. But for political purposes, to get reelected,

he knows he has to be against it. Showing Trump as complete bullshit and someone who broke his promises because he wanted to do anything to get himself reelected and to enrich himself seems like that's the path. Well, that's a very important point because just saying Trump is a liar is not going to get us anywhere

because everyone knows he's a liar. And the people who voted for him knew he was a liar and they were willing to take that risk because they think all politicians are liars and he was just different. But you have to show why he's lying, right? You have to show what the end result of hypocrisy is and that it's greed. Do you think that that's a more compelling message than pointing to the fact that he said, I'm going to drain the swamp, I'm going to drain the swamp, like we're going to throw the D.C. fat cats out of town.

And then he named a lobbyist to run basically every single agency. I mean, do you think that sort of anti like calling bullshit on this change message is better than the immigration one i think calling bullshit with an actual reason is very important in different parts we're gonna matter different people right and i think the corruption piece of it is there are a lot of voters who voted for like the reason why trump did better in North Carolina than Barack Obama, did better here than Mitt Romney did or John McCain is there were first-time Trump voters. He turned out people who don't normally vote. And the hardest part when you turn out a first-time voter is to have them believe their vote mattered.

And you can show that they cared because they thought he would drain the swamp. You can show that that's not what he did. But you have to show what the consequence of that is to their life. And again, Tommy, to your point, that's an example of something that benefits him. Drain the swamp was a good political message to get him elected, but when he needed to staff the government, he wanted to put a bunch of lobbyists in there that were loyal to him

so that he could help him out. Everything is fucking about him, and everything else is just a bullshit political message to get elected. That, to me, is the... Yeah, I agree. Two quick points. One, I'm sick of how imaginary this super PAC is.

I'm fucking sick of it. Like, sitting on this stage with this guy for two years, he's got all these great ad ideas. It's imaginary. Get it together. Make one. It's America. There are billionaires everywhere.

Stop trying to run as fucking third-party candidates. Donate to a super pet. You know, American oligarchy is throwing off a new billionaire every five minutes. Grab one of them. Grab one of them. You know, and look, if I know one thing about these billionaires, they are some gullible people. You get them in a room, all right, get a good slick PowerPoint going. They'll part with their money.

That's the first point. Second point. I think one other part of the immigration story that I think Democrats fail to tell is a compassionate one about what exactly now has happened because of this system we all built together. You know, what's happening at these Trump golf courses is the story writ large

of the broken immigration system in America, which is, as a country, all of us live in a system that benefits off the labor of basically second-class citizens that we told, come here illegally. If you make it, you can stay as long as you want. There'll be work. You'll have to live in the shadows, but your kids will go to school here. You can build a life here, but you'll be paid poorly and you won't have recourse if your employer abuses you. And we'll do that for 30 years. And then when it becomes politically palatable to turn these people into a scapegoat, all the pain of that system that has benefited consumers, that has benefited corporations, that benefit all of us that are citizens of this country when we have cheap food at restaurants and cheap goods in our stores and all kinds of cheap services

built on the backs of this undocumented labor system. That when it comes time to crack down, it's not the businesses that pay a price. It's not consumers that pay a price. It's these people who just were playing by the set of shady gray area rules that we made over 30 years. And I think that to me is why, like when people talk about a path to legalization, it's worth remembering that there's a moral case for it and that it is the right thing to do. That people say, oh, shouldn't they have to wait in line? And shouldn't these people have to get to the back? We told people to come here.

They're not here. They didn't break our laws by accident. They weren't doing this against our will. We wanted people to break the law as a country we decided we'd rather have a system where people broke the law than were able to follow the law that's why these people are paying a price for and i just it's always worth remembering that that's who gets the pain all right uh we'll have some more news later but first we're gonna play a little game now it's time All right. We'll have some more news later, but first, we're going to play a little game.

Now it's time for a game called OK Stop. We'll roll a clip, and the panel can say OK Stop at any point to comment. Ralph Northam, he's the governor of Virginia and a man who definitely thought La La Land should have beaten Moonlight. That is a good joke. This weekend he sat down with Gayle King to make his case for staying in office. The sympathy for Gayle? Let's take a look. Well it has been a difficult weekend. And, you know, if you look at Virginia's history, we're now at the 400-year anniversary. Just 90 miles from here, in 1619, the first indentured servants from Africa landed on our shores in Old Point Comfort, what we call now Fort Monroe.

Also known as slavery. Okay, stop. Also known as slavery. I know where you are in your life, doesn't matter what's happening, if someone is correcting you and saying the phrase, also known as slavery, you have fucked up so badly. Honestly, also just like the perfect tone from Gail right there. Yeah. She could have gone so much harder, but she was like, no, I'm just going to.

Yeah, you fucking idiot is what I said. And you know, while we have made a lot of progress in Virginia, slavery has ended. Schools have been desegregated. Okay, stop. Wait, is it? Nope. Sorry, John, You take it. No.

Was that him? Virginia ended slavery? Well, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's true. Virginia, slavery was ended in Virginia.

I know he expanded Medicaid, but like slavery? Yeah, you don't say. It's all like, man, on your racism apology fucking press tour, we've made a lot of progress. We ended slavery? Like, how fucking,

that, your bar needs to start later. Much later. It's like the Germans being like, we ended the Third Reich. A little ahistorical.

Take credit there. But yeah, it's just also like... We welcomed Lincoln later on. It's just also like, we're not interested in you placing your Klan blackface photo in the sweep of history. You know? It's like, I see where it is on the timeline. placing your Klan blackface photo in the sweep of history.

You know, it's like, I see where it is on the timeline. We have ended the Jim Crow laws, easier access to voting. It is abundantly clear that we still have a lot of work to do and I really think this week raised a level of awareness in the Commonwealth and in this country that we haven't seen certainly in my lifetime. Okay, stop. You see, it's a positive.

Ralph Northam has... There's a silver lining in that very dark cloud. Ralph Northam has raised awareness. It is true that, you know, fires raise awareness of firefighting. You know, they do. Yeah. How do you think you still deserve this job when so many people are calling for you to step down?

Well, again, we have worked very hard. We've had a good first year and I'm a leader. I've been in some very difficult situations, life and death situations, taking care of sick children. And right now... Because you're a doctor, yes. Right now... Okay, stop. children and right now a doctor right now okay

I love Gail King I love Gail King I just that sorry Dan so perfect I mean I mean there's like so much to say there because totally unrelated points. Yeah. I want to be governor. I've also been in life and death situations. I've saved children. Well, that's the beauty of the Gale interjection of just sort of this kind of like, like, like she's trying to move it along. Like, because you're a doctor.

Yeah, we know that. Yeah, you're a doctor. So it's sort of like, yeah. I mean, there's also something just about how great an interviewer Gail is, which is most people who would do this interview would come in loaded for bear, right? And they would like jump down their throat and interrupt him. It's just a question of she sees that he's doing this to himself.

Well, look, here's the thing about that's the thing about Ralph Northam. of she sees that he's doing this to himself. That's the thing about Ralph Northam. You know, when there's no one asking questions, he'll almost moonwalk. So, you know, like literally left to his own devices. You know, he'll end his own career. You know, you don't need to. You need someone that can heal.

There's no better person to do that than a doctor. Virginia also needs someone who is strong. Okay, stop. This is also, by the way, this whole thing has been the result of what happens when you surround yourself with too many consultants, too many communications professionals, because everything he's been saying sounds like it came from a fucking set of talking points prepared by 40 people at a firm somewhere i am a strong leader i am strong i am a doctor i care about people i understand things it's a a doctor is what we'll need to heal like that is such a it's you can see you can see them preparing the talking points but what's so interesting about that too is it's it's so old-fashioned in a really important way, which is, like, there was this old theory of talking points, of sound bites.

It's that you say this sound bite, and because it's interesting, it breaks through, right? It gets quoted. It's in articles. People see it. But that's not the way things are shared anymore. And, like, what he really actually – it's interesting. It's actually a good thing in a lot of ways. Like, the conversation is more sophisticated.

It may be too heated. That wasn't an interesting point. I'm a doctor. It's actually a good thing in a lot of ways. Like the conversation is more sophisticated. It may be too heated. That wasn't an interesting point. I'm a doctor. It's not. I'm like, like he's not, he met your threshold here. Right,

right. It's like, he doesn't need to make a, we're not looking for a smooth way of him getting through the crisis. Like he actually needs to articulate. Here is my explanation. My sophisticated high level answer for why I should remain in office. Why I'll be able to manage this crisis while I'll make the best of it by, like,

trying to talk about the way in which I fucked up. Like, he needs to make a sophisticated argument, not a PR argument. But there's nobody around him seemingly willing to tell him. Look, the thing you have going for you is a doctor. People like doctors, so emphasize that. Yeah, so basically his strategy is PR mad libs with a dash of Confederate history.

He's, like, one step away one step away from throwing on glasses. Like, would you hit a man with glasses? Who has courage and who has a moral compass. This has been a difficult week. And again, I'm fine. It's been mainly difficult for Virginia in this country. So yes, I have thought about resigning, but I've also thought about what Virginia needs right now. And I really think

that I'm in a position where I can take Virginia to the next level, and it will be very positive. What did you make of the governor's explanation? Well, the interview was at seven o'clock, and he was there ready to go. We were in his house, of course. He was there ready to go, 7 o'clock and he was there ready to go. We were in his house of course. He was there ready to go and he was on time. Gail was definitely the funniest person at OK Stop today. Gail King. What a...

Any good parts of the interview, Gail? Punctuality. Got worse from there. And that's OK Stop! Let's talk about the latest 2020 developments over the weekend where we had two formal presidential announcement events.

One from Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren and one from Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar. Warren made her campaign official at the site of a century-old women-led labor strike in Lawrence, Massachusetts. She talked about Trump as a symptom, not the cause of a rigged system, and that, quote,

it won't be enough to just undo the terrible acts of this administration. We can't afford to just tinker around the edges a tax credit here a regulation there our fight is for big structural change so clearly she's drawing a contrast here um with a more incremental brand of liberal politics. She was also the first candidate to say that getting rid of the filibuster is on the table. What do you think her strategy is here,

and how might it be affected by Bernie Sanders jumping into the race, which he is reportedly planning to do? I mean, I watched the speech today. She's so good at telling a story that helps you understand who she is, where she comes from, her values, and the policies she's fighting for. I mean, going to that factory, talking about the labor movement, the power of collective organizing, it informs you about who she is. Then she told a story about how right before she went to law school, she'd gotten in, but the last thing she needed to figure out was child care. So like five days out, she didn't have it squared away. She had to take her kid to a place to see if she could get child care there. They said only if your kid is potty trained.

So she had to potty train her daughter in five days. And it was like this incredible humanizing story where you look at her and you think, okay, she has lived the same experience that I have. Like she understands me and my values. And I think that makes everything else she says so compelling, incredible. So when she talks about big change and fighting the banks and like all the big meaningful things she wants to do, you buy it. And you really want to get there. Now, I don't know how much she and Bernie occupy the same lane. I was convinced that Dave Weigel, right? I was convinced that Dave Weigel write up an interesting piece great Washington Post reporter about how

policy Bernie is really just like he just sort of rat-a-tat-tats a bunch of policies in a row and like that's his stump whereas Warren is very personal and and is great at the one-on-one politics and meeting people and sort of feeling their pain so like It remains to be seen in my mind how much they'll compete but I have been impressed At every step along the way with Warren's rollout Dan what do you think I think what I think is interesting and important about Warren's approach is that she is trying to bring a level of you're just trying to recognize the crisis in the country and meet it with something that is other than being the flip side of Trump. Right. And to Warren's great credit, even long before she was a senator, she she recognized like this underlying crisis in our economy was affecting

so many people that really wasn't being talked about. And so I think that that's important. I agree with Tommy. I don't really, I don't think anyone knows whether she and Bernie are in the same lane or in different lanes or with a list of candidates longer than the Cheesecake Factory menu. It's not clear that lanes

are a thing that exists anymore, right? Yeah, no, I think, I mean, look, I found it interesting what she talked about. She's not just de-emphasizing Trump, which I think a lot of the candidates are doing, but by saying, like, this isn't just, you know, he's a symptom, not the cause.

The larger cause here is getting rid of a rigged system. And the people who believe that the system is rigged are not just liberal progressive Democrats. They're regular Democrats. They're independents. They're some Republicans, right? Like we know there was a study done, the voters who were Trump voters in 16, who then became Democratic voters in 18. They are more populist than either loyal Democrats or loyal

Republicans. And they believe the system is rigged against them. They believe that Washington is stacked against them. And so even though Elizabeth Warren is thought of as this sort of progressive champion, talking about a rigged system and what it's done to everyday people, what the banks do to people, what big corporations do to people, how they bend the rules, that is a message with very broad appeal. And she has that story down. That's been her life story. That's been her life's work. And she's probably out ahead of almost any of the other candidates running on actually developing policies to answer that problem. And so, like, you know, she's had her wealth tax, which is an incredibly popular proposal. Not with Howard Schultz.

He does not like it. Yes, exactly. Also, wealthy. It's like 70% of Americans, and then Howard Schultz is pissed. and then Howard Schultz is pissed. So per usual, Donald Trump and his spawn welcomed Warren to the race by tweeting and sharing a series of offensive jokes about Native Americans. Last week, Warren apologized to Cherokee Nation leaders

for not having been more sensitive about tribal citizenship. Beyond that, his strategy has been to largely ignore these attacks from Donald Trump. Is this the right strategy here? And how much does Warren need to worry about this line of attack from Trump, which seems like his only line of attack against her? Yeah, it's a real, you know, there's a reason he's doing it.

I think he's learned a lesson from 2016. This is the one place he can get between Elizabeth Warren and the American people. He can't do it on taxes. He can't do it on policy, any kind. He can't do it on corruption, on issue after issue. He loses to her. But on this, he sees something where he can score a point, and it's something he wants us to be talking about. And, you know, I see a lot of people lamenting, oh, did she mishandle it?

And, you know, maybe she did, maybe she did in terms of the DNA test, but would she since apologize? Donald Trump's never apologized for any mistake he's ever made. I think it's also just important for us to remember that Donald Trump wants this to be the story we tell, and it's the story that I think the media wants to tell because for a lot of the political press, women, especially Democratic women, their flaws are news and preoccupying. Their character traits like leadership and intelligence and vision are not. They're just not news.

The flaws are what are news for women. It happened with Hillary. The qualities that would make her a good president fade into the background. All we end up talking about is email. Even with this Amy Klobuchar announcement, it's been overshadowed by the stories about her hurling objects at her staff. Well, maybe that's okay. We'll get to that. Yeah. But to me, I think for us, I think she's going to largely ignore it. I think that's right I think for us it's also good to remember that this may be the story that's on the news But it doesn't have to be the story we tell each other, you know, Elizabeth Warren The reason her campaign is feels fully baked is because she's not it's not a personality driven campaign. It's an ideological driven campaign

She has a set of beliefs and core values that are driving her mission. And it's a mission she's been talking about for a very long time. Elizabeth Warren sounded like Elizabeth Warren before everybody else did. And if she were a man, she'd be considered the intellectual leader of the Democratic Party. It would be conventional wisdom. You know, we have a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau because it was an idea that sprung from her imagination and it was considered so dangerous to Republicans that they basically spent every single day since trying to destroy it. No one else running for president has basically created an entire agency. And the other thing too, and I think it's so easy to get ourselves wrapped around the axle, Elizabeth Warren would be a fantastic president. She would be a great president. We would sleep

like fucking babies knowing that the hard choices that a president had to make would come to her desk. Does anyone in this room believe that they would have to worry about Elizabeth Warren compromising us on behalf of corporations or compromising us for a quick political victory? Not a single person in this room believes that. That doesn't mean you have to support her. We have a ton of great candidates, but I just want us as Democrats to remember that they want us to not like great candidates, but I just want us as Democrats to remember that they want us to not like our candidates, but we can like our candidates and we shouldn't forget why we are very proud of the people running on our behalf.

I mean, to your part about how much Elizabeth Warren has to worry about, you know, it's not really Trump's attacks. It's the issue itself. Right. And I think the challenge for her is that Democrats in every poll say they want someone who can beat Trump. So everyone's very focused on electability for obvious reasons, because this election is so important and very nervous that are we going to nominate someone who could lose to Trump? Now, I don't have a fucking clue, and neither does anyone else in the world, whether this would actually affect her electability. But the challenge for her would be,

will it affect the perception of her electability among Democratic voters? And so how does she deal with that? I don't think she deals with it by talking about it all the time, because there's nothing you can say. There is no good answer to it. There's no upside to engaging with Trump on it, allowing it to, the conversation. Again, the way you can do it is

the only way to do it is to run a really good, really smart campaign and start winning in states like Iowa, in places like that, to show that you are electable, right? Like, that is the key. Just run a really good campaign. There's no answer. There's no Ralph Northam-style interview

to do that's going to make it go. Well, I think it's also, by the way, it's also finding stories to tell policies and issues that take the microphone back onto our side of the conversation. And what's been really interesting, actually, I think because a lot of these liberal policies that we've been talking about, well taxed, 70 percent marginal tax rate, even abolish ICE, the Green New Deal. well taxed, 70% marginal tax rate, even abolish ICE, the Green New Deal. What's interesting is there has been so much room for more progressive policies, and they are still quite interesting to the media. I think two of the things that have been successfully able to wrest the microphone away from Donald Trump, one has been nationwide protests, but in a very fascinating thing, the other is just interesting liberal policy. Interesting liberal policy is newsmaking. That's cool.

That's mostly because AOC is making it, right? Well, I think Elizabeth Warren's wealth tax has made a ton of news, and we've been talking about that. The Green New Deal is, yes, it's Elizabeth Warren-driven. I mean, it's AOC-driven, but it's still something that has become a big part of the conversation.

That's interesting. Also this weekend, Senator Amy Klobuchar announced her candidacy in the middle of a Minnesota blizzard, which still drew a pretty big crowd. Klobuchar has served multiple terms in the Senate and won each of her three Senate runs by more than 20 points, outrunning the average Democrat by 10 points. That means that she's won over a lot of Republican voters. She's also known for working with Republicans in the Senate. She's passed probably more laws than most senators.

And she has a more moderate record than most of the Democrats currently running. She hasn't supported Medicare for All, but she recently just supported the Green New Deal. What is Amy Klobuchar's strategy and path to the nomination here? I don't think anybody... I mean, the problem this year is,

in earlier years when there were three or four candidates, I think you could assign lanes like Dan was talking about earlier. There was a progressive lane, there was a moderate lane, and you could game this stuff out. When you have like six, seven, eight, nine, ten people, the way votes get split becomes sort of impossible to tell. So I'm not sure yet. I mean, she's a good senator. She's really well respected in Washington. I think her colleagues like her a lot. I watched the speech today. I watched the live stream of it and I had to fast forward to an hour and 50 into the live stream before it started. So God bless those people that stuck around. compelling bio and story and narrative that helped me understood how she came to believe what she believes. I heard a lot of Democratic positions and policy issues that I think are likely to be put forward by almost all the candidates So I think it will take some time and work to to break out and stand out in the crowd

I mean, I think her team is selling an electability Platform. Yeah, because they say if you can win in Minnesota, it's more of a moderate state. She's more moderate. She can connect with Iowa voters and people in the Midwest. But that remains to be seen. Yeah, I guess what I should have said is, what's her team thinking in how she gets there?

What's there? The way you understand how these candidates think about it is not what they say on the stump. That helps you understand what kind of president they would be and whether they can give a good speech so understand like why they got in the race and why they think they can win it's what they say when they get in a room with you know potential precinct captains in iowa or donors in new york wherever else and i am pretty sure that what amy klobuchar's team says is she is from neighboring minnesota and therefore she has a very good chance of winning Iowa that she has Midwestern

electability which is by the way is a real thing Barack Obama having been senator from Illinois we knew at the beginning of that campaign he was going to be able to go to Iowa all the time and he knew Iowa because you know western Illinois is very similar to Iowa yeah and but also so because the question one of the people like donors will ask is why you not Kamala Harris Elizabeth Warren and her argument I would assume I don't know this, but I'm guessing the argument they would make is that I'm from the middle of the country. These are the states that Democrats need to win. They're from the coasts, right? This is what, to win Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, you need someone from the Midwest who understands Midwestern issues.

And that's what she brings to the table. Whether that works, whether that's what Democratic voters are looking for, no one has a clue. Yeah. So one challenge Klobuchar faces is that in the week before her announcement, there have been a flood of stories about how she's well-known on Capitol Hill for mistreating her staff, so much so that she's struggled to build a team for her presidential campaign.

Politico's headline here is, Klobuchar's opening pitch sidetracked by staff horror stories. Not a good headline. Not your good out of the... When you're running for president, listen, we've been in politics a very long time, you see the word horror in your announcement headline, and you just realize you may have a problem on your hands.

Some have suggested there's a gender double standard at play here. Others have suggested that it shouldn't really matter if she's mean to her staff. What do you guys think? Well, I have three quasi-related thoughts on this. One, we all work in Democratic politics, and everyone in Democratic politics knows these stories. There is a list of members that you warn people not to work for. And there's two kinds. Men and women. Men and women.

Men and women. And there are members who are demanding, but generally good to their staff. Where you know if you go there, you're going to have to work your ass off. And they'll call you at midnight, but are generally good people. And then there are ones that are, say, really terrible. And there's huge turnover. And Amy Klobuchar's staff is one of those. Yeah.

Second, we should also recognize that issues the issues like this do are affected in how they're covered because of gender stereotypes. Right. This would be treated differently if this was a man. And that's just a fact. It's not to excuse the behavior. But how it will be covered is very different than it would be like, you know, demanding boss who pushes everyone to his level of excellence is just be treated differently than a man. And when we saw that and how Hillary Clinton was was covered we've seen that it was women in politics for a very long time but the third point is i do think it matters not just because you can't build the team but because people who kiss up and kick down are really that's one of the worst traits in people right and we were very very fortunate. Barack Obama was a great boss,

right? He was empathetic. He cared about us. He was loyal to us. And I think that empathy is what made him a great boss is also what made him a great president. And that doesn't mean that Amy Klobuchar would be a bad president because she had done this in her past. George Bush was famously incredibly decent to his staff and he was an absolutely miserable president but it is something that he I think people should consider because that is that how people treat the people beneath them says something about them yeah and also we also know from having worked on the Hill, all of us, and also having worked on presidential campaigns, it is grueling.

You don't get paid very much. And what keeps you going, this is going to sound cheesy, but it's real. What keeps you going is that you believe in the person that you're working for. And you're willing to, you know, sleep four hours a night, travel all over the country, not get paid much, not talk to your friends, not talk to your family, not just because you believe in a certain set of issues, which is true, but that you believe in the person at the top of the ticket that's leading that organization. And we, you know, we've all had bosses that maybe have not met that standard. I think it's fair to say. And we have all shared a boss that did meet that standard. That like

Barack Obama made plenty of mistakes, has plenty of flaws, but he treated his staff like the best you could imagine. Never lost his patience, never yelled at us, never got upset. And then like you said, there's another category of bosses too, where people say they do lose their temper once in a while, they're demanding, but it's worth it because they're... And then there's the category of people who are like, they treat people like shit all the time. And you hear about it all over on Capitol Hill and you hear about it throughout politics. And it's just, it doesn't make you feel good. And you wonder, you do wonder to yourself, like, if the person's public image is one way, but yet the people who work for them all the time

have this, have these stories, and we've all heard these stories, then you stories then you're like well what does that mean that they have this different public persona than they do the way that they treat the people who work for them all the time counterpoint sick of these namby-pamby democrats remembering people's birthdays check it out on when they have the flu i want a fucking nightmare tyrant who runs her office like a goddamn gulag. I want people to look away. I want the favorite to happen in the White House.

Anything that would have taken six months takes five fucking days. Medicare for all, January 27th. Stop it. It's nonsense. I'll say this. Hillary Clinton, who had to deal with an incredible amount of sexism as she ran for president throughout her career,

she is someone who, as we all know, and we've told people when we all got to know her, is famously kind and good to her staff. Tommy, you remember in the White House, you know, when she hurt her arm and had a sling and then you broke your arm and had a sling and she came and signed it for you and wrote a note and she like barely knew you. She's just a nice person. She's a good person, you know. I think that takes people very far in politics. One other just little point about this too.

Like one thing I actually learned from working for Hillary Clinton is actually when you're at that level a lot of what being nice is is actually more than just interpersonal it's actually like systems of niceness like organizations of niceness like how to make sure people get things on their birthday how do you keep track of the people you met like one of the reasons i do think it actually matters how these how people are behind the scenes is that uh lot of the like Hillary Clinton I think especially when you know Republicans decide they hate her whenever she runs for something but when she's in office they don't mind her and one of the reasons that is is because I think she does build these kind of systems of relationships of kindnesses of remembering people's birthdays of

keeping in touch with people of taking a business card and then that business cards get locked and then if you're in that part of the state you get a message saying that she's coming and like that is kind of a a way of behaving a kind of decency that filters down into governing i mean it is something that is uniquely relevant in politics how you treat people who work for you and around you like elon musk is like famously the worst person boss forever right but we're all But we're all like, well, you know, he's like trying to create electric cars and batteries. You can't be nice while you're building an electric car. It's not possible.

Reinvent the subway. Really? Because that's apparently a big deal. But like, you know, people, you get a pass for that in industry. In politics, I think personal relationships are so much of the job and so much of greasing things to get things done

that it matters. I was a little surprised. Like I've heard these stories about center global chart for 10 years because i knew people for a long time but i'm surprised that it's gotten this much attention like maybe it really bled into her coverage today of her announcement usually with your announcement speech you get closer to a clean shot at like who you are what you're talking about what you stand for so that surprised me a bit but's, you know, when there's something this specific and easy to understand, a story like this, and you're relatively unknown, it's even more challenging to do.

I also think the biggest stories are often the things that everyone has known for a really long time, but no one has ever written. Like, every reporter has known this, every staff member has known it, and no one's talked about it, and now they finally let it out. All right. Well, member has known it. And no one's talked about it. And now they finally let it out. All right. Well, that's the news. She is an award-winning actress and the star of the upcoming film,

The Best of Enemies. Durham, please welcome Taraji P. Henson. This side. Oh, good. Thank you. How are you? Hello, everybody. Wow. Wow. Great crowd. Thank you so much for doing this.

Thanks for trying to save the world. Well, you know, when we named the podcast, it was supposed to be ironic, and I feel like that's gotten lost. We're kind of making fun of ourselves. So the movie comes out in a few weeks. It's about some history that happened right here in Durham during the debate about integrating the schools decades ago. Why is this a story you wanted to tell?

For so many reasons. You know, Ann Atwater was a civil rights activist in the 70s here in Durham. Very powerful woman who was a voice for the voiceless, who went up against a lot of men, very powerful men. But they would bark and she barked louder. And she came up against CP Ellis, who was a Ku Klux Klan member. And I mean, we all see what's

going on in the world today. It seems like we're divided right down the middle. And the problem we're having is that everybody's passionate about their side, right? But we're yelling at each other, and no one is sitting back listening. So we're not trying to understand each other. And what happened in this film, how she was able to appeal to this man's heart and change his mind was through love. Love will win every time. I mean, we can go back in history. Hate has never won.

If hate wins, it will be the end of civilization as we know it today because hate is to destroy and kill. Love is life. So the way she was able to appeal to him is she tapped into love and love is the search for understanding so if you're really trying to love the next human you have to try to understand them and that's what's happening right now no one's trying to understand each other so talking about Ann Atwater I mean when you prepare for a role like this again what do you do to to understand her and her motivation and who she was as a human being?

And then what did you learn about her type of activism and how she was so uniquely successful in making meaningful change? Well, her fight came from a fight for her survival. You know, she came from poverty. fight for her survival. You know, she came from poverty. So the things that she had to do to survive as far as, you know, going up against slumlords and figuring out how to have a better way of life, she learned. And by her process of learning, she reached back and taught other people who didn't understand or didn't know how to fight for themselves or didn't know the laws. And that's what makes her so beautiful. Like she could have learned for herself and just took care of her family, but she decided to help her community. Yeah. I can clap for that. So, I mean, Donald Trump's election seems to have given people who might have privately harbored some bigoted feelings and thoughts the license to say those things publicly.

You know, just we talked about the challenges in Virginia this week. We all remember what he did in Charlottesville. He just today used a racist slur to talk about Elizabeth Warren. used a racist slur to talk about Elizabeth Warren. What do you think this film can teach us about how to navigate this very fraught, dark moment we're going to in our history right now? We have to put a mirror up to society. We have to put a mirror up to ourselves. When people try to put down another culture, it's out of fear. You know, C.P. Ellis and men like

that who feel like they have to go to the extreme of hate, that's out of their own fears and insecurities. That's out of a place of I need to feel important. And it's unfortunate because, you know, hate is so easy to hate. It's just easier to do. You know, it's much harder to sit back and try to understand someone you want to hate. You know, and that's what we're being. We have to do that. You see, God is very clever. I'm not trying to force religion on anyone, but God is clever.

He made us all, and he made us all look made us all and he made us all look very different and he made us all have very different backgrounds and beliefs so that we could figure out how make we got to figure this out because there are no cut cards there are no cheat cards there's no way over it we got to go through it and we got to go through it together yeah yeah um and we got to go through it together. Yeah. Like the movie talks about this, this almost impossible seeming story of a civil rights activist becoming friends with someone who was in the KKK and left.

It's one of those stories that is such a happy ending that it can, a movie done poorly, which you guys did incredibly well, could tell that in a way that's almost saccharine and feels like false kumbaya, right? Yeah. Like a white savior came in and he evolved and he said, like, that's not how this movie is. How did you avoid that trap and avoid, you know,

tell a story that felt so real? We stuck to the truth. We stuck to the God honest and sometimes ugly truth. And we, see the beautiful thing about Ann and CP I like to say pay they were one and of the same person they were just as passionate about what they believed in and they literally were a mirror to each other and once and realized she was matching hate with hate she had to check herself.

And she had to appeal to this man's heart. You know, once she brought him down and faced him like a human and, like, it was almost like a scorecard. Like, you're poor, I'm poor. You have kids, I have kids. Like, it's the same things we want. And just because I want and deserve what you have doesn't mean I'm going to take anything from you that doesn't mean you're going to lose anything if I have something you saw the humanity exactly once he made her recognize her as a human then that's when he was able to go you know what this is silly um I know you said before you don't see yourself as

very political but I know during the past month, you've talked about the government shutdown and how it hurt government workers in D.C. You said Trump's wall is bullshit. You were correct about that as well. I mean, because if you draw a map of the wall, what about the waters around? It just really makes no fucking sense. I'm sorry.

It's just, but whatever. I'm not political. I just know right from wrong. Like you, you are, you have this huge platform, a lot of people care what you think and say. How do you go about deciding where and what issues you wanna engage on and talk about and what to sort of take a pass on?

I mean, today you just have to be careful what you say. The climate is just so sensitive and for valid reasons. But I just know who I am. I'm a person of love. I'm a truth seeker. I'm for justice for all people. I love humans. We need each other.

That's the place I operate from so when I do decide to speak up on something it's because it's something that's helping humanity move forward like that's where I'm trying to go I'm trying to make it so our narrative isn't the same like we shouldn't be having

podcasts about shit that doesn't make sense like obvious stuff that we should get you you know what I mean? But until the narrative changes, here we are. How you doing? So half of the Democratic Party is now running for president. I know you've tweeted some stuff about Senator Harris, Senator Booker. Is there anybody out there that's running that really excites you or inspires you or that you want to jump in the race? I really can't help but I'm going to come back.

I think Joe Biden. Is he? He's thinking about it. I know. We need to just like send him love letters and flowers you know I don't know when I tweeted that you know that's in honor of Black History Month and if

Martin Luther King didn't dream then those candidates wouldn't be able to put in a ballot but yeah I just I don't know we gotta figure something out quick sure do the movie is the best of enemies thank you so much for talking with us I don't know. We gotta figure something out. We gotta figure something out. Quick.

Sure do. The movie is The Best of Enemies. Thank you so much for talking with us. Woo, thank you. I heard you might wanna stick around and play a game. Sure, I love games. All right, come on out. North Carolina. First in flight.

Last in voter protection. You're basically the Duke of election integrity. Wow. Can I ask a question? I've recently learned about something called line monitors. Are there any line monitors here today? You narcs. They're tenting over there.

Are you tenting? I just want to understand something. So you go to this place called Duke, right? And you're very excited. And they get to root for one of the best teams, I guess, whatever. I don't know. I can't. I can't. Let's just. I can't.

I can't. There's so much sports for him on this trip. How many times am I going to do this? The point I'm making is you come all the way here. You go to this school. And then to get tickets to go see the team, your team, you have to sleep outside. That's how Duke treats the people that like Duke. All right.

That's funny. Do it for Zion. Ouch. Election integrity was the point of the game. The recent and disturbing case of election fraud unfolding in North Carolina's 9th Congressional District is only part of the story. Because the Republicans have been fucking with your elections for years. And we thought we'd highlight that trend in a game we're calling,

It was the GOP in the 9th district with the absentee ballots. You all have your cards in front of you. Would someone out there like to play the game? As Travis finds a participant, I will just point out that here are some people who went to Duke. Richard Nixon, Ron Paul, Charlie Rose, Richard Spencer, Stephen Miller, and Tim Cook, who took over Apple, and ever since,

none of the plugs plug into anything. They are Duke Dongles. I'm sick of it. Hi, what's your name? Abby. Abby. And are you from North Carolina? Not originally.

I'm from McLean, Virginia. I'm so sorry. Abby, how long have you been here? Ten years. Honestly, the second we call on someone who's not born and raised in the city, you guys want to build a wall, and you should face it. You should face how you are. Abby, are you ready? I'm so ready.

Question one. In 2013, after the Supreme Court knocked down parts of the Voting Rights Act, North Carolina immediately passed new voter restrictions that targeted black voters. They reduced early voting, eliminated out-of-precinct voting, and required voters to show ID,

with one GOP aide even requesting a list of registered voters broken down by race and by who didn't have a driver's license on file. When this law was overturned, how did the judges describe the law? Is it A? Overbaked, underproved, and not very scrummy. Or is it B? They called it the most restrictive voting law North Carolina has seen since the era of Jim Crow, and that Republicans started African Americans with almost surgical precision. Or is it C? They describe the law as interesting

and very law-like. It kind of seems like they didn't do the reading. Or is it D? They were like, if I could pick just one word to describe this law, it would be overturned. Then they high-fived each other for a few minutes before court was adjourned. What do you think, Abby? B. It is. You got it. Question two. Despite there being no evidence of

widespread in-person voter fraud in North Carolina, how did the GOP-led North Carolina state legislature respond to this manufactured issue? Is it A? Legislators passed a constitutional amendment that would require voters in the state to show photo ID before voting. Is it B. Legislators introduced an amendment that was just a picture of Elmer Fudd saying you must be this tall to ride this ride. But tall was crossed out and replaced with white. I should read these before I get up here. Or is it C.

A legislator took an old tomb from an unmarked, unmarkable shelf in the state archives, blew some dust off the cover, opened the voting incantations page, and began chanting until all the voting machines on college campuses broke. Or is it D? Legislators pass a law that says you have to show a poll worker an ID, but then that poll worker can repeatedly follow up by looking into your eyes and saying, but who are you, really, until you're weeping and talking about how you should have been a veterinarian. What do you think, Abby? A.

You got it. All of them. You got it. Question three. Question three. A lot is being made of the North Carolina House race where Leslie McCray Dallas of Bladen County is accused of tampering with absentee ballots by discarding ballots that had voted for Democrat Dan McCready

or by filling out ballots for the Republican Mark Harris without permission from the voters. What is the evidence that this occurred? Is it A? In Dallas' high school yearbook, he was voted most likely to sign on as a witness for absentee ballots in order to steal an election. While several people signed in school yearbook, he was voted most likely to sign on as a witness for absentee ballots in order to steal an election. While several people signed in his yearbook,

can't wait for you to commit those crimes, have a great summer. Is it B, Dallas operates a popular ASMR channel on YouTube and evidence that the fraud took place can be found in his video titled, Whisper it. Binaural relaxing ballot tempering and election fraud with whispering and tapping. Or is the evidence C?

The butler claimed he saw Dallas in the study. But recall that the dowager spotted Dallas in his shirt sleeves just before in the aviary. Seems pretty out of the ordinary for a record snowstorm, wouldn't you say? Only Dallas knew about the butler's affair with the socialite Marguerite, so he must have secured the alibi through blackmail, and Dallas couldn't have covered the groundskeeper with his coat when the body was discovered, unless the coat was already at

the scene of the crime. My friend's Marguerite is telling me the truth, though not about her journey from Salzburg. If we check the pocket of Dallas's top coat, I believe we'll find the absentee ballots. Grab him! You were in some of the best TV and films in recent memory, and we gave you that shit. Or is it D?

Dallas and its staffers frequently signed as witnesses in the absentee ballots so they could deliver them. 61% of the absentee ballots in Bladen County had votes for Harris, despite only 19% of voters in Bladen County being registered Republicans. And in Bladen, Harris's absentee vote margin was 20 points higher than in other counties. In fact, Bladen was the only county where Harris won a majority of absentee votes. This was also true of the primary, where Harris took home 98% of the vote in Bladen County.

You got it, Abby. Fun fact, there have been at least five elections since 2010 where the candidate Dallas was working for one absentee ballots in Bladen County by a huge margin that doesn't match the rest of the district. In 2010, Dallas worked as a political operative for another candidate. The candidate lost by around six points, but still won a majority of the absentee votes. In 2016, three voters filed complaints about absentee ballots collected in Bladen, and one voter reported that Dallas had asked her son... asked her son... Ah, whatever. You get it. He sucks. There should have been a criminal investigation. It didn't happen. Question four.

So after spending years pretending to want to stop voter fraud in North Carolina, the state finally had a clear-cut case on their hands. How are the voter integrity champions in North Carolina's GOP responding? Is it A? Famously, the Voter Integrity Board released a statement entitled Our Bad and moved unanimously to make November 8th statewide Our Bad Day. At the Our Bad parade, every year they throw out handwritten apologies from their parade float to the lower and middle classes. Or is it B?

They have had it up to here with this fraud. That is it. No more voting. North Carolina will get its democracy back when it is demonstrated it's mature enough. Or is it C? After careful deliberation, a GOP spokesperson recommended that the district be placed in the center of the room, and the two candidates will each call the district's name. And whoever the district runs to first is the district's real owner. No treats allowed. Or is it D?

Dallas Woodhouse, the executive director of the North Carolina GOP. Oh, that is high name ID for an executive director of the GOP. You got to be pretty. You get it. D. What else? Dallas Woodhouse is trying to discredit these allegations and saying it's just another example of Democratic voter fraud. He was recently quoted as saying, but you know, Democrats will steal it if they can.

And this is just a test to see if they can steal North Carolina from Donald Trump in 2020. What do you think, Abby? D. You've got it. And you have won the game. It was the GOP in the 9th district with the absentee ballots. Give it up for Abby, who's been here for 10 years.

And you acted aggrieved. And give it up one more time for Taraji P Henson for joining us and go see the movie And for being such a good sport Thank you so much Durham thank you so much for joining us tonight. Thank you for coming. Thank you to Taraji P Henson. We'll see you again soon. guitar solo We'll see you next time. you