Pod Save America - "Drop Debt Gorgeous."

Episode Date: April 28, 2022

President Biden indicates he is considering student debt relief while Joe Manchin continues to block the rest of the Democratic agenda in the name of bipartisanship, Tucker Carlson and Matt Gaetz turn on Kevin McCarthy after the latest round of leaked tapes, and Hot Take hosts Mary Annaïse Heglar and Amy Westervelt join for a special climate edition of Take Appreciator.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau and filling in for Dan Pfeiffer while he's on vacation, hysteria's own Aaron Ryan. Aaron, welcome. Oh, Jon, it's always great to be here. You make me feel like I fit in like a weapon in Madison Cawthorn's carry-on luggage. I'm glad you're here. We were supposed to be in studio together. But I have COVID. So we are all

we are all isolating at home uh the whole family we're all um we're all fine so far so just annoying very happy to be vaccinated and boosted yeah it's it's like um at this point if you're vaccinated and boosted it's sort of like getting a lottery ticket like all the scratch off options are just terrible and you're like i want the least bad option so it's i'm glad that you've got like the least it sounds like among the least bad options i'm probably the worst in the family and i have like uh i would qualify i would i would classify it as like a bad cold emily is asymptomatic and charlie has charlie has a little cough but is still him still himself.

So there's nothing more humbling than a baby outbraving you, you know? Totally. He was very happy that I came back into the house because I was isolating myself. So he's been like sitting on my lap watching truck videos and YouTube for the last hour before this pod. I'm like extremely needle phobic. Like when I get blood drawn, I have to like lie down and like breathe or whatever.

And the last time my daughter had blood drawn, she took a nap. Like it's embarrassing. She's so much, babies are so much braver. They really are. They really are. Yeah, no, I take a lesson. All right, on today's show,

we got some good news and bad news about Joe Biden's agenda. We got House Republicans in disarray. And later, the host of Crooked's newest pod, Hot Take, join us for a special climate edition of Take Appreciator. But first, if you're not listening yet to What A Day, you're missing out. Crooked's daily news podcast will help break down the most important stories you may have missed in only 20 minutes. Listen to new episodes of What A Day every Monday through Friday, wherever you get your podcasts. And next week, Pod Save America Alive and On Tour will be in Chicago and St. Louis. Tickets are on sale now. Find your city

and date at crooked.com slash events. All right. So let's start with some good news and bad news about Joe Biden's agenda. The good news is that two Democratic House members told the Washington Post that during a meeting with the Congressional Hispanic Caucus this week, the president, quote, gave his strongest indication yet that he is prepared not only to extend the current moratorium on student debt, but poised to take significant action to relieve student loans altogether, a move that could include canceling tens of thousands of dollars in debt for some people and one that he wants to take sooner rather than later. Biden himself confirmed on Thursday that a final decision will come in a few weeks. So that's great. Now for the bad news, also from

the Washington Post, Jeff Stein, Joe Manchin. We haven't said Joe Manchin in so long on this pod. And now now we're back. Joe Man mansion has started meeting with republican senators about a bipartisan energy bill causing quote real fear in the white house that they'll fail to reach a deal with the west virginia senator on a democrat only reconciliation bill that would invest in clean energy lower the cost of prescription drugs raise taxes on the rich and cut the deficit for policies that mansion keeps saying he supports. Let's start with the good. So Erin, what are your thoughts on the student debt news and what do you make of the timing on this? Well, I'm for it. I'm going to say I'm one of those people who had to take out a lot of loans to go to college and paid them all off. I think I paid them all off like in 2018 or 2019. And it

was like a huge burden up until the point that I paid them off. And as someone who paid my loans off, I don't want other people to have to go through that for like the entire young adulthood that they live to like have that sort of burden on their back. So I love this news. And I also want to sort of reframe the conversation on student loans. I think that national media is doing this thing where they're making it seem like or they're giving oxygen to the argument, the Republican argument, that this is a bailout for like pencil necks who keep going to more and more grad school because they – whatever. They're like the elite. But if you take a look at who takes out student loans, who are they? They're people who can't pay for college out of pocket. So they're people who aren't coming from money. They're people who maybe their families didn't plan for them to go to college. They're people who are maybe first

generation college graduates. And so they're people who come from one place and are going to another place. They're upwardly mobile people. They're the future middle class. And I think that it's really important for when we talk about this to keep in mind that people who take out student loans and the people who are most burdened by student loans are the future middle class or people that are trying to better their lives, also disproportionately people of color. So I think that this is only a good move for Democrats, and it's only a good move for Americans. And I just really want to make sure that when we talk about student loans, who we have in mind for who's taking them out is the right picture,

a picture that matches reality. And I do think that it seems like from what Biden has said and what the White House has hinted at, that he might take action to make sure that people who need the help the most get it and that people who are like very wealthy and can afford to pay off their student loans do not get this sort of debt relief. Of course, Republican senators reacted to the story by saying they're introducing a bill that would prevent Biden from canceling student debt. And Mitt Romney called it a desperate bribe on Wednesday.

You think Biden and the Democrats should lean into this fight? Yeah, I also think that it's funny that Mitt Romney, this is, he should be above this. Like doing something that tangibly benefits your constituents is not a bribe. It's called being an elected official representing the public interest. What's a tax cut then? What is getting a contract awarded to your district?

It's not a bribe. It's so funny because, look, Mitt Romney over the last couple of years has made some, I would say, principled and even courageous decisions around Trumpism that I applaud. They were just the right thing to do. I realize the bar is low, but it was still the right thing to do. A lot of other Republicans weren't doing it. But Mitt Romney complaining about student debt reminds me of why we were able to beat him in 2012. And it sort of made me miss that Republican Party that was just so open about how they're for helping. He complained about a wealthlements because Donald Trump was too afraid to do that. And I'm like, bring back that Republican Party and we'll kick their ass. I'm picturing like Mitt Romney,

you know, having his servants get the Sunday newspaper and sitting there reading it in a top hat as someone polishes his shoes. And he's like, too many coupons. There's too many coupons in this newspaper. It's like, come on, man. Like this is not, the way that he's framing his concern with it is so, so cheap. And here's the thing. The only legitimate pushback on the student loan thing,

even semi-legitimate, I'm not even saying I agree with this, is the idea that inflation is something that might be exacerbated by people continuing to have the amount of money that they have to spend, which I don't agree with. But that's like, you know, somewhat legit of an argument. It's a little bit wonky. It's a little bit in the weeds. But it's, you know, that would be a legitimate thing to bring up in the discussion. And this, it's a bribe. Other people, like, does Mitt Romney even know how to fill out a FAFSA form? I would challenge him to.

I don't think he knows what FAFSA is. Yeah. Also, it's like, yeah, no, we're really, this is a bribe. This is like a special dispensation for, you know, hardworking students or people who've worked hard to pay off their student loans. But like, let's think about oil companies getting tax breaks, health insurance companies getting tax breaks. Donald Trump passed a giant tax cut for some of the wealthiest people in this country. Like, they didn't have any problem giving like very big corporations and the wealthiest individuals huge tax breaks that continue to this day.

And they didn't have a problem when Donald Trump was threatening to slow down people getting stimulus checks in the mail because he wanted his signature on the stimulus checks. Of course. It's exhausting. I'm sorry I interrupted you. No, I was just going to say it's also, you know, just to talk about the politics of it, like Harvard, Harvard did a poll this week. It's the Harvard Youth Poll. It's probably one of the best polls of young voters in the country. They surveyed a total of 2018 to 29 year olds. Of that poll, 85 percent said they favor some form of government action on student loan. Only 38 percent favor total debt cancellation, which I actually think this is probably where Biden ends up landing. And they ended up doing focus groups in addition to the poll. And they said that some focus group participants were asking whether a person making hefty wages on Wall Street should have their debts washed clean or whether relief should only be given to those in dire need. So you can see how Biden will probably land on something that means tests

this in some way, just so that it appears as fair as possible to most people in the country. But there is a desire among most young people and probably just most people in the country to have some kind of student debt relief. So it is a popular policy that he should absolutely lean into. relief. So it is a popular policy that he should absolutely lean into. Yeah, I agree. I also think that on the timing of this too, people are like, well, why did he wait so long to do it? Well, I do think there is a risk in doing this by executive order that the court overturns this. And I think that he would have rather had legislation passed to cancel up to $10,000 in student debt. But, you know, we're about to talk about this.

It doesn't seem like the Democratic Congress that includes Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema ever would have gotten that done. And so he sort of had to wait. I'm sure he wanted to do it via legislation first. And when he couldn't do it now, now he's just going to do it via executive action. And there's something here that also kind of sticks out to me. And there's something here that also kind of sticks out to me. So when Republicans want to get something deeply unpopular enacted or overturned, usually they just kind of lean on their shady ass judges and don't try to do it legislatively because what they do now is just gum up legislation and wait for court challenges to undo popular laws, essentially. That's the way that they do things. So the fact that they are proposing counter legislation that's like, we need to stop this from happening, to me, betrays a confidence that they have that their branding of student loan forgiveness will resonate with their voters. They believe that they have successfully made it seem

as though student loan forgiveness is an issue that impacts like, you know, pajama boy style. It's a throwback. Like white liberals, you know, like trigger warning on syllabus, you know, tearing down staff. They believe that their extremely online, angry Twitter, Facebook base will come out to vote for them or be angered by this. So that's one thing that I also am kind of, kind of sticks out to me when we talk about like the timing and the way

that we're talking about it. Yeah. And I think they're just, you know, I think they're sort of misreading the electorate on this one. Again, if they want to introduce legislation to keep people in debt, great, go for it. Run on that. You already have Rick Scott out there saying, I want to raise taxes on 100 million Americans. I want to take away people's health care.

I want to cut Social Security. I want to get rid of Social Security and Medicare after five years, and now we're going to throw onto the pile, oh, and by the way, I want to prevent debt relief for millions of people in this country. Like, great. Run on that. That'd be that'd be perfect. So let's talk about the the less good news here, the mansion stuff. So there's a Politico story from yesterday where former Harry Reid advisor Jim Manley said that if the White House is still hopeful about a deal with Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema, quote, someone is taking too many edibles. If I was like, I don't.

Wait. Yeah. It sounds like somebody doesn't know what edibles do. They don't make me hopeful. That was my that was my reaction. I'm like, is he is he taking edibles? Yeah. Like this make you want to.

I mean, if if legislation was being introduced in like cartoon form, like Rick and Morty memes, I would be like, somebody's taking too many edibles. But regardless, that's nitpicky. But if you're the White House, what at this point do you do about Joe Manchin wasting even more time? Here we are in April of 2022, several months before the midterms. And what do you do about Joe Manchin wasting more time talking to Republicans about a bipartisan energy deal that, let's be honest, does not seem like it will ever come to anything that would actually put a dent in climate change? I mean, here's the thing about Joe Manchin, though. Like, his popularity since he has taken on this role has skyrocketed among the people who have the power to elect him or not elect him.

In West Virginia, I think Trump won by double digits. And he's a Democrat from a deep red state. And in the past year, according to a morning consult poll, his approval rating has risen in his state from 40% to 57%. So in his mind, he's doing all the right things. So what Democrats need to somehow do is to make him understand that he's doing the wrong things. And by that, they somehow need to message to West Virginians. And I don't know what that looks like. I'm not from West Virginia. And I do know that, you know, sending people into West Virginia has had some mixed results. Because Joe Manchin is basically the king of West Virginia at this point, driving around in his Maserati like a goon. Yeah.

On his houseboat. Yeah. Maserati. Car people know that Maseratis are bad cars, right? Like that's like the ultimate douchey car. I know. Like if you see a Maserati, even in Los Angeles, you're like that douche. And this is a city full of Teslas.

Like it's a city full of douches, which I'm like, yeah, that's also true. I mean, it's like it elevates you among the baseline of douchiness of L.A. I can't even imagine the differential in West Virginia. But regardless, he's super popular in West Virginia. So how do Democrats get the message across that Biden's agenda benefits West Virginians without seeming as though they're confronting Joe Manchin or undermining Joe Manchin? Like they have to somehow message around him in a way? I think it's really hard. I mean, I think the question like through the last couple of years has been, what does

Joe Manchin really want? Which is a ridiculously hard question to answer because it doesn't seem like he knows what the fuck he wants half the time. And he'll like say something to reporters one day, something opposite the other day. I've heard that he will tell Democratic senators like, hey, I really love that plan. And then they'll call the White House and say, oh, Joe Manchin wants that, wants my plan included in the reconciliation bill. And then the White House calls Joe Manchin and he's like, no, I never said that. So he's like playing all sides all the time.

And then he recently, he recently apparently told donors at a dinner that he's, that he's running again in 2024. And thinking about the poll numbers that you just cited, like I had always wondered, I'm like, does he really think he's going to win in 2024 in West Virginia in a state that Trump won by that many points when it's only going to get more conservative because we only get more polarized as the years go on. And the fact that not only does he have a 57% approval overall, that poll showed that he has a 69% approval, nice, among West Virginia Republicans. And that's it.

That's the path to re-election is if you have that many Republicans in West Virginia liking you, he actually might be able to get it done in a year where no other Democrat would win in West Virginia. The only thing from totally left field that I could see making Manchin kind of check himself is like a primary challenge from the left. And I know that there are people in West Virginia who are kind of AOC style Democrats. Not many of them, but the ones that are there are like made of pretty strong stuff. Red state progressives are really, really tough. And red state progressives coming out to get a primary challenger who's like far to the left of him to beat him would be something that could, you know, rattle him.

Not that I necessarily want that to happen. I don't want to lose the seat, but that's the only thing that my, you know, poisoned brain can come up with as, as putting any fear into him. But then also, you know,

he can just cry himself to sleep on his bed of millions of dollars that he made off profiting off of pollution and coal interests. Look, I think there is, you know, you mentioned the financial interest there. I also think this guy is just very high on his own supply. the other week, I heard rumors from a couple different people that he's been telling people he might want to run for president in 2024 as the moderate alternative to Joe Biden, which is fucking wild. But also, I think that like this guy has spent time, not too much time in West Virginia, but like too much time in a lot of fucking green rooms. And like, you know, on cable shows and like fucking editorial boards. And he really thinks that like, he's this moderate

champion that's going to fucking save the country. Like I think he's, he's deleted himself. And if, and if that's how he's thinking, I don't see how he jumps in on a Democrat only reconciliation bill at this point, because why would he help out the Democrats when he wants to either be the great bridge builder, you know, between parties, um parties or be able to say, you know, the Democrats went too far left and I was able to kill it. Like, it seems like those are more politically, or at least he thinks those are more politically beneficial stances to take, which is just fucking infuriating. I mean, that's why as any person like rises in the ranks through Washington, Hollywood, any like bullshit heavy space, it's really important for

them to have one person around who they cannot fire who will tell them no. Or like, because I think Manchin has risen past the point where he has fired all of the people who will tell him no. It's like Kanye syndrome in a way. You know, you need somebody who's going to be like this. Your view of what you think people see you as does not match with how you are seen. West Virginia is not a large state. He is immensely popular in a small state that is not necessarily in line with America as a whole. And yeah, that's yikes. That's a yikes. I mean, it's tough for Democrats when your 50th Senate vote comes from a guy who is not only representing an extremely conservative state, but maybe the only state in the country that is

wholly dependent on one of the most damaging fossil fuels that you could imagine. So it's like, it's a pretty rough situation that I think we've all found ourselves in. And I mean, it brings up a question like, you know, Biden obviously promised a fairly sweeping agenda on the campaign trail, most of which has been held hostage by Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. Looking back, do you think there's anything he could have done differently? And then I guess looking forward, how do Democrats sort of energize a base that may be disappointed by what hasn't gotten done? Yeah, I mean, I don't want to, I don't want to Monday morning quarterback this or, you know, next two years later,

April quarterback this. But I think that it was maybe a catch 22 for Biden, because Biden had to either run as a uniter. And if you run as a uniter, then party doesn't matter. And you get to vote, you know, vote for your conscience, vote for who you think is the better person. Even if you're a Republican, come out, you can come out and vote for Joe Biden. He's a uniter. Or you run as like a party person that's like, we need to be in power as Democrats so that we can get the Democratic agenda passed. And I think Joe Biden really tried to walk the line between both where he's had he had this bold progressive agenda as a candidate,

but he also tried to decouple the agenda slightly from the like national Democratic ticket, if that makes any sense, which I think was something that at the time it looked as though he had to do. And I don't I don't know if things would have been different if it would have been like you got to get out there and vote for Democrats, because who could have predicted that we would have ended up with a 50 50 Senate split. But the 2020 election was not good. Democrats underperformed in the House and the Senate in 2020. And I think part of that is because there was like a, you know, party doesn't matter, we can unite, you know, and that's, that's just patently not true. Yeah, I mean, look, could Joe Biden have set expectations lower at the beginning of his

administration, knowing who Manchin is and knowing who Sinem is? Yeah, he could have, but then he would have rightly been accused of not fighting hard enough for democratic priorities by people like us. I'm sure we would have done that, you know. And so he sort of set, you know, he basically said, this is going to be my big agenda and I'm going Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders or Pete Buttigieg or anyone else running would have had an easier time pressuring Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema just because like they get a vote. They represent states where they clearly have made the calculation that thumbing their nose at the National Democratic Party and the president of the United States is not going to hurt them politically at home. Now, Manchin, I think, is correct in that assessment. Kyrsten Sinema, I don't necessarily think is correct, but whatever. That's what she thinks. She's just chaotic. She is a chaotic entity, and it's impossible to figure out what she's doing at any point.

But I think maybe the calculation here was that Biden could put these extremely popular policy proposals out there, and Americans would respond well to them. Like, look how popular this is. And then Sinema and Manchin would be moved by their better angels. And I'm using air quotes because, you know, Biden loves that phrase, to do the right thing. And that's not necessarily what they are going to do or ever have done. And I'd want to just say one more thing. You know, the Lucy with the football comparison that is constantly coming up. It was coming up during the Trump years. Now it's coming up in reference to Joe Manchin.

We need a new reference. I know, it's getting very old. I love Greg Sargent, but stop using that reference, Greg. Lucy with the football. How about Jean Parmesan from Arrested Development? Because it's like you get into a situation and all of a sudden he takes the mask off. It's Gene. Ah!

You know, we get into a situation where we're negotiating. Joe Manchin is along for the ride. He takes off the mask. Ah, it's Joe Manchin. Ah! Except, you know, we're not delighted by it. That's my final thought on the matter. As you can see, extremely highfalutin.

Look, I think that's a, I think it's a great idea. I think when we're looking ahead to the midterms, you know, the best message is you kind of start from like what the truth is. And the truth of the matter is, if we elect two more Senate Democrats, then we don't have to worry about Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema.

And I think if I was Joe Biden, I would have a message that both talks about what he's done, talks about what he hasn't been able to get done, primarily because Republicans won't work with him on anything. Also, because he has two Democratic senators who have been extremely difficult. And if you send him two more Democratic senators and you return a Democratic House majority, he will be able to get all the rest of his agenda passed. And by the way, if Republicans take over, nothing more will get done. And in fact, a lot of harm could possibly come to people because we might not be able to confirm judges and we might be able to confirm all that kind of stuff. So that, I mean, look, it is a more complicated message than anyone would certainly like, but that's sort of the reality that we're in right now. Yeah. And, and, you know, going back

to some of the popular provisions that Biden proposed that Manchin and Sinema have successfully sidelined, the care agenda is such a popular agenda. And it was such a missed opportunity by Democrats. And I think that seriously, if Democrats just ran on, look, parental leave, family leave, a bolstered care economy, like somebody has to take care of all these kids. Somebody has to take care of all these elderly people. Somebody has to take care of all these people who are suffering from long-term disability as a result of long COVID. Like the thing between where we are and where we need to be is literally two senators. And I mean, not where we need to be, but getting on the path to where we need to be

because we're so egregiously behind. I think that that's, you're right. It's not necessarily a straight as an arrow message. You can't really put it on a bumper sticker. You could, but it'd be a long bumper sticker. But that's kind of what we're working with right now. Yeah, I would also bet that if the Manchin thing, if and when the Manchin bipartisan energy bullshit falls apart, and then, you know, if reconciliation should fall apart, you'll probably see a lot more executive actions from Joe Biden in addition to the student debt relief. And then, you know, he'll probably take his case to the voters in the summer

and fall. All right, let's talk about the shit show on the other side. On Tuesday's pod, we came to the conclusion that maybe Kevin McCarthy's political future was safe after his groveling apology to Donald Trump about the audio recording where he told Republican House members that he'd had it with the former president and wanted him to resign. But it turns out there were more audio recordings. Let's take a listen. The other thing that we have to do is these numbers on either whatever position are calling out other members that's that's got to stop especially in this nature so I get up right here I'm gonna call gate tension is too high the country is too

crazy I do not want to look back and think we cause something or we miss something and someone got hurt I don't want to play politics with any of that. A little too late, Kev. As you might imagine, some House Republicans weren't super happy about that clip. Matt Gaetz tweeted that McCarthy demonstrated, quote, the behavior of weak men, not leaders. Congressman Andy Biggs called the comments incredibly undermining. And here's what Tucker Carlson had to say on Fox Wednesday night. We do not mean certainly to suggest that it's only Democrats who favor censorship for political ends. Republican leaders support it, too. In a phone call reported today by The New York Times, for example,

Congressman Kevin McCarthy of California told his close friend Liz Cheney that he hoped the social media companies would censor more conservative Republicans in Congress. Donald Trump, the sitting president, had already been silenced by those companies. But McCarthy wanted the tech oligarchs to do more, to force disobedient lawmakers off the Internet. Quote, quote, can't they take their Twitter accounts away too? Those are the tape recorded words of Congressman Kevin McCarthy, a man who in private turns out sounds like an MSNBC contributor. And yet, unless conservatives get their act together right away,

Kevin McCarthy, or one of his highly liberal allies like Elise Stefanik, is very likely to be Speaker of the House in January. That would mean we will have a Republican Congress led by a puppet of the Democratic Party. Just amazing. Amazing. Why is Tucker Carlson's broadcast voice like the voice of a person reading a storybook to a child? It's like the intonation is like, and that's why we can't let more black people into Harvard. It's like Tucker.

I mean, anyway, that's the thing. The thing about that is Tucker's characterization of Lee Stefanik as highly liberal. Wild stuff. Is absolutely wild. So there's a part of me that thinks, okay, well, I guess if Kevin McCarthy gets out of the way, I don't like Kevin McCarthy whatsoever. I think it'd be fun to watch him be sad and to have his greatest ambitions dashed by, you know, the tiger that he has by the tail in the far right members of Congress that he's trying to wrangle. But on the other hand, I think Tucker makes an interesting point because who are we talking would be Speaker of the House if not Kevin McCarthy?

Like, how crazy are we talking here? I mean, look, I remember Dan and I talking about this when it went from Paul Ryan, who we had plenty of bad things to say about, to Kevin McCarthy. And I remember talking about it when we went from John Boehner to Paul Ryan. Like each incarnation of a Republican House speaker is only going to get more extreme if it's not Kevin McCarthy. Is it Steve Scalise? Like it's, they just, they just get more extreme as you go down the line here. So it's not like, I've, I found myself feeling like how you do, which is,

yes, it's fun to watch Kevin McCarthy feel sad. But if Kevin McCarthy is not speaker, it's not like that's going to be beneficial in any way to the country, because we're only going to have someone who's more extreme. And all of these people are going to have to bend the knee to Donald Trump, and probably Tucker Carlson. Now, look, I guess, apparently, McCarthy went to the House caucus yesterday and met with members for the first time since this audio recording came out and he got a standing ovation. There was a few Freedom Caucus members who were still giving him shit and I think demanded an apology or whatever. But also him surviving this and becoming speaker means that he will only sort of go along with whatever Donald Trump wants and whatever the Freedom Caucus wants and whatever Tucker Carlson wants more so between now and if he ever becomes speaker, God forbid. the veracity of the New York Times story, knowing that there was audio out there or like probably having some inkling that there was audio out there

required an audacity and an ability to just manufacture your own truth that might've been a little bit admirable to members of the Freedom Caucus. In a way, him lying so- Like that's what we need. We're looking for that. Yeah, hell yeah.

Look at this guy complete shamelessness he just demonstrated the type of shamelessness that the modern gop needs in a leader doesn't matter that maybe he was shit talking donald trump as long as he's sufficiently groveled like what we need is a person who can lie knowing that there are audio recordings of him doing the thing that he said he didn't do yeah Yeah. No, he's... Well, so Republican Knives also appear to be out for our good pal Madison Cawthorn. You remember him. I'll keep up with cocaine. A sexual get-together.

A sexual get-together. A sexual get-together. Madison Cawthorn calling orgies a sexual get-together is my favorite quote of the last month, maybe. A sexual get-together? Is that Netflix and chill? Like, a sexual get-together? Is that Netflix and chill? Like, a sexual get-together. He got in some trouble this week for bringing a loaded handgun

to an airport for the second time. And he also may have violated federal insider trading laws because of a pump-and-dump scheme involving, and I'm not making this up, Let's Go Brandon cryptocurrency. Is Madison Cawthorn too good to be true? That's my question.

Yeah. I mean, there's other things that I think that should be mentioned alongside of the Let's Go Brandon cryptocurrency, which is when he lied about training for the Paralympics in a way that was very, very easy for actual Paralympians to debunk. Like he was posting all these things on his social media accounts about how he was training and all these Paralympians were like, no, he's not. He's not training. He's not going to the Paralympics. He's lied about a lot of things. He is not a person who tells the truth very often. He also, I believe, I don't know why I have like brain cells devoted

that have like stuck around that are devoted to memorizing Madison Cawthorn facts, but I think he was in college for one semester and he dropped out because he had like a D average. He had a creepy reputation on campus for taking girls out and being like handsy and way over the top and crossing lines. And there's a lot going on with Madison Cawthorn. There's a lot not going on with Madison Cawthorn. There's certainly not a lot going on. I find it very interesting that Republicans have turned on Cawthorn so quickly and harshly. There's now a super PAC affiliated with Republican North Carolina Senator Tom Tillis that's already running ads against him.

Why do you think they're going after Cawthorn so fast and so harshly and not some of the other wingnuts like your Marjorie Taylor Greene and your Lauren Boebert's and your Steve King's and all those people. I mean, this is going to sound very tinfoil Hattie, but I'm nothing if not a paranoid person or somebody who's always trying to look for a subtext. My thought is that there is something that is well known to Republicans about Madison Cawthorn that they are just like, we need to get this guy out of here. Like there's something about him that I think- Oh, you think there's something even worse than all of the stuff we just talked about? Again, why is my brain, why are there paths in my brain devoted to this?

This is impressive. No, I like this. This is very impressive. I just, it's like a grudge against a clown. Like, I'm remembering, oh yeah, and then he squirts the water out of the flower, and then he does this. He's got squeaky shoes. I think that there must be something else that is damning, disqualifying or harmful about Madison Cawthorn that is known to Republicans or he's going to be seen as somebody who can carry forward more damage than the other people.

than the other people. He's also not a particularly, I would imagine that Marjorie Taylor Greene for all of her wing nuttery is an effective fundraiser for the GOP. She gets people to give money, which is nuts to me. What's that saying about a fool and his money being easily parted by Marjorie Taylor Greene? I think that Madison Cawthorn

is probably not really offering the status quo what it needs and is maybe more of a burden than a help. And maybe Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene are helping them in ways that they're just sort of begrudgingly accepting of. Marjorie Taylor Greene this week, by the way, said that the Catholic Church is being run by Satan because there's Catholic and Christian missionaries that are resettling immigrants and refugees that's that's where marjorie taylor green was this week but like no problem silence from republicans on that but madison cawthorne you know he's he's getting the uh he's getting the boot he's getting the super PAC money uh run against him it's wild wait a second. If the Catholic Church was run by Satan,

why was Easter so chill this year? Easter would have been a banger this year if Satan were running the Catholic Church. The blessing in St. Peter's Square would have been just completely off the chain. It would have been... I do think that people like McCarthy and other leaders of the Republican Party think that Green and Boebert and those people like command a large part of the base or at least are admired by a large part of the base. And Madison Carthorne probably doesn't have that connection. So they can like fuck with him a little bit more, which just goes to show you like who's who's really leading the Republicans, which is just, you know, the most extreme members of the party. And they're fine with that. Yeah, and I did want to add, there was a comment that stuck out to me

in a Madison Cawthorn story, either this week or last, and it was from a former aide of his that was like, Madison Cawthorn is a big old liar who lies about everything. And like the, I don't know, every time I read a story

where someone is like, yeah, but I can't say, I'm just like, there's something out there about Madison Cawthorn that we don't know yet that I think people are just like, let's get this guy out of here. What a headache. Well, stay tuned. Stay tuned. All right. When we come back, we will have a special climate edition of Take Appreciator with the host of Crooked's newest podcast, Hot Take. All right, before we go, we have a special climate edition of Take Appreciator, and we are joined by the hosts of Crooked's newest pod, Hot Take, Mary Ennies Hegler and Amy Westervelt. Welcome to the pod. Thank you.

Thank you. Thanks for having us. We're so excited about Hot Take. It's such a good podcast. I'm so glad we've been thinking about a climate podcast forever. And you guys have done such an amazing job. And we're very happy that you're part of the family. And everyone listening, go please subscribe to Hot Take

if you haven't already. You will not regret it. Thank you. Now this is the part of the segment where i i hand it over to our chief take officer elijah cone hey mary hey amy nice to meet you guys welcome to the network thank you hi we're gonna play a special climate edition of the take appreciators so just so you know how it works i'm gonna share some takes with you from out in the content industrial complex the producers have seen these takes our players have not they'll give their reactions and rate them on a scale of one to four politicos with four politicos being the most egregious john amy and mary are you ready yes scared but ready can you do a half? Can you do a half Politico? Yeah, you can do any decimal point, percentage. There are no rules.

Honestly, a great question. I can't believe none of us have ever thought about doing half a Politico. That's great. I'm into it. Let's see if I actually do it. All right, well, we're going to start with a scorcher here. This one is a clip. All I'll say about it is I'm sorry in advance. Charlotte, go ahead.

And as I've said before and been mocked for it, the simple fact of the matter is over the course of the next hundred years, when you see all these maps and it's like this area will be flooded and all those people will be dead. No, because they won't be living there. Because as it turns out, when the tide rises, people move inland. This is what has been happening throughout human history. Not a huge number of people were killed, presumably, when the land bridge between Russia and Alaska that,

that, from which Sarah Palin could see, right, when, when that land bridge ended up being covered up in water, there weren't tens of thousands of people who died in that because it took thousands of years for that to be covered up by water. Slow moving crises are not crises, they're problems, not emergencies. So. Ben Shapiro. I would recognize. Ben Shapiro. Yes. I would recognize that nasal twang anywhere. That's why I love a welcome to the network. That's how I do it.

Like I said, I'm sorry in advance. Baptism by fire here. Oh, man. Oh, man. What do you even say to that? You guys take it first, please. I'm just, I'm, I've heard this a million times but i'm legit speechless like who like his whole thing is you're supposed to sell when their homes get flooded people will sell them but like so fucking who um and also like

there's only so much livable i this is so stupid this is is so incredibly stupid. But I also don't believe it's stupid. I don't believe Ben Shapiro is actually this stupid. I believe Ben Shapiro is this heartless. And he masquerades it in stupidity.

He knows everybody can't move. He knows, like, he just doesn't care about those people. And he doesn't think that their lives matter. So the bottom line is, fuck Ben Shapiro.

I never want to hear that voice again. But how many politicos, Mary? Four and a half. Wow. That's a full playbook and a half. And a snack. Yeah.

Yes. Yes. I'm like, ugh, my skin's crawling. Yeah, he's gross. Amy? gross oh i'm like oh my skin's crawling yeah he's gross amy i would i would also give it a full playbook because i think that um i agree that ben shapiro is not stupid and i agree that he's heartless but i also think he's strategic and this is like a very compelling talking point for people like oh yeah that's true people will just move how who's gonna help them move do they

have the money to move? And to where are they going to move? And are we going to accept all those people coming into this country that need to move because of sea level rise? Because I'm pretty sure Ben Shapiro says no. So yeah, I agree for maybe 4.25. I'll go slightly less. 2.25. I'll go slightly less than Mary. Yeah. This is one of the more awful Ben Shapiro takes. It is a classic, of course. But yeah, the idea that also just like everyone has the resources to just pick up and move and buy, just move to their second or third homes when their first home floods is completely insane. And it is, I think to Mary, what you were saying, like, home floods is completely insane. And it is, I think to marry what you were saying, like,

he's just so much of climate denial, I think is just justification for not giving a shit because you think, well, in my lifetime, I'm going to get through it and everyone else, well, screw them. That's it. So, uh, yeah, I'm, I'm giving that the full playbook for sure. Yeah. Love it. Agreed. A sweet love starting off with a clean sweep, full playbook. sure yeah love it agreed a sweet love starting off with a clean sweep full playbook and just a little reminder that ben shapiro's company is funded in part by boyle and fracking billionaire so he's not an objective commenter on this topic um not at all shocked uh no i am scared for the next one i know this is where we started well the next one. I know this is where we started. Well, the next one I think is doing this segment. I've learned a lot about the current discussion on climate change. So this next one isn't so much politicos.

We're going to need to change the scale here to science fiction, like one before science fictions. So this is a piece from the New York Times titled What's the Least Bad Way to Cool the Planet? The piece explains that we can stop making climate change worse through reducing emissions, but repairing the damage is its own problem. It leads us to this quote. To cool the planet in this century, humans must either remove carbon from the air or use solar geoengineering, a temporary measure that may reduce peak temperatures, extreme storms, and other climates, uh, climatic changes. Humans might make the planet more

reflective by adding tiny sulfuric acid droplets to the stratosphere from aircraft, whitening low level clouds over the ocean or other, uh, interventions. And then it goes on to explain the merits of solar geoengineering. Guys, I mean, putting sulfuric acid droplets into the sky, is this legit or is this just complete science fiction here? Okay, can I take this one? Because this has literally been going on for like 20 years. These guys trot this idea out every few years. on for like 20 years. These guys trot this idea out every few years. And there is actually,

there's supposed to be a real world experiment with this over Sweden. I don't know if you've heard about this in your research, but Harvard was doing an experiment in a tube for a while. And they're like, we need to do this in the real world. And the people of Sweden, of course, are like, maybe somewhere else. Because one of the many things that's potentially wrong with geoengineering, A, like, we just don't know what other things might happen. This has only been tested in labs. And that's part of why the scientists were saying we need to test this in the real world, because we just don't know. And part of their reasoning also is that they were, I think, probably accurately predicting that at some point, some psychopathic autocrat will be like, fuck it, let's just geoengineer. And we need to know what that will actually do

to the planet. So it is actually a thing that people have been studying for a long time. Unfortunately, I think it's something that a lot of tech billionaires have been investing in because it's like the ultimate get out of jail free card. It's not because it's the best solution. And this is also why I feel like tech billionaires are a problem when they invest in these things in general, because it's basically like pointing policy in a direction that suits them, not necessarily the direction that science says, oh, this is an actually good solution. Looking for the easy way out. Yeah, that's right. It's like the tech equivalent of a bunker in New Zealand. That's it. So I guess four science fictions. Actually, maybe three because it's like legit science and there is some like, you know, validity to the science. And I do actually think it'd be helpful to understand how it works because I agree that I think some psycho will pull the ripcord at some point. But is it a good solution?

No, it's not. solution? No, it's not. My first reaction is that, you know, we have so many tools at our disposal to get out of global warming or not get out of it, but to reduce greenhouse gas emissions that we are simply not using. And so I feel like we got a lot of other shit to try before we go turning off the sun. And so that gives me pause. Just dim it, Mary. Just dim it. And so that gives me pause. Just dim it, Mary. Just dim it. Right. Just, you know, put it on level three or something.

What? But also it's like big tech has disrupted a lot of things. It has not solved a lot of things. It's disrupted the media and created this world where, like, we have different realities, you know. So, like, they've disrupted dating and I want a personal apology for that I don't want them disrupting earth people don't have a good good track record they don't like understand problems before they go solving them so like I want big tech to disrupt itself before it goes disrupting the the ecosystem yes. So I don't know how many science fictions that is.

It's more like a sedan. I'm going to give it two and a half based only on, you know, on Take Appreciators, usually like we give a lot of politicos for people who are like purposely trying to troll. Right. Because they're so bad. And I feel like this article wasn't really trying that hard. like we give a lot of politicos for people who are like purposely trying to troll right because they're so bad and i feel like i feel like this this article wasn't really trying that hard it was just sort of um it was a little bit of wish casting it sounds like from the science so they get they get two and a half just for being a bunch of uh knuckleheads fair well i got a really good trolly one coming up but before we get to it I just wanted to ask you guys, I'm genuinely curious after prepping for this segment, how do you guys view mitigation versus adaptation in that whole debate? It's not a debate. It's a false debate. It's a both and. You have to do both. That's like

the simplest answer is just like, of course, it makes no sense to stop trying to reduce emissions. It also makes no sense to just do nothing about the fact that we're already seeing heat waves and more fires and floods and all of that stuff. You know, you got to do all of that. Right. The fact that that debate still exists means that they're like we're stuck in this world where we don't think global warming has happened. Right. You know, like the Earth has already warmed by a degree. So if you're still debating this in like the 1990s when, well, actually, I think the world hadn't warmed by that point. Not this much though.

Yeah. It's sort of, right, right. Not to this like dangerous point where you're getting hurricanes that evolve overnight. So I think that when we propose mitigation and adaptation as being in conflict with one another, we don't, we're not recognizing how the world that we live in is actually a different planet than the one we were born on. Yes. Good point.

Gotcha. Cool. Well, scary. All right. Troll us. Troll us. Not cool. Here we go.

Here we go. Well, this last one is so hot, it might melt the ice caps itself. It's from Fox News. Oh, man. Elijah. Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry. It's a piece called Climate Change is Saving Hundreds and Thousands

of Lives, or Hundreds of Thousands of Lives. Here's a quote. Can we turn this into okay stuff? This is terrible. Here's a quote. More people died from cold weather than hot a new lancet study reports that while half a million people die from heat per year roughly 4.5 million die from cold global warming has reduced the intensity of extreme cold weather uh now we see fewer cold deaths guys deaths. Guys, who said it? Oh my god. Oh my god.

Who said it? Tucker Carlson? Good guess. Nope. For those not watching on YouTube, Mary is stone-faced right now. Hannity? Not Hannity. I don't know anyone's name over there. Jesse Waters.

Close. Greg Gutfeld. Yeah, there you go. There we go. You just have to go down the list of idiots until you get stupider and stupider. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's a – it's actually – that's a – you know what?

That gets a full playbook for sure because that is just an – I mean, it's a tried and true trick, right? That like it's not the warming. It's the cold. Actually, it's a tried and true trick, right? That like it's not the warming, it's the cold. Actually, it's good for us. Yeah, basing it all on weather. So, but you know what? The way that he did that, saving lives, that's a take to be appreciated. That gets a full playbook.

Yeah. Yeah, that's an intentional troll. It reminds me of there was this period of time. Actually, I think they still do it occasionally um like the hardcore climate deniers would say actually more co2 is good because it'll grow more plants um it's like it's on par with that uh so yeah i agree full playbook it's insane um i'm gonna give it two playbooks what i like this yeah i'm breaking all of the rules breaking all of the rules um and i'm doing so because one it is stupid um but it's also incredibly dangerous and i don't believe it's genuine i don't believe the person who said this i don't believe the person who wrote this i don't believe the person who wrote this i don't believe the person who wrote who produced this segment believes this right i i absolutely 1000 don't

just like they knew that the insurrection you know was dangerous and people like all what we know about what they say in private and what they say in public is wildly different these people are not this stupid they're not this stupid they're just this evil and this craving yeah so yeah two playbooks well and maybe a swift kick in the first two playbook yeah this is definitely our first two playbook plus swift kick in the nuts on take a picture so yes yeah well and then also they're taking legit research in the lancet and trying to spin it as like a proof point of climate denial you know like just gross right so they read the research they know better yeah they know full fucking better i guarantee they're not buying coastal property in florida they're not i guarantee that they have a bunker right now yeah right it's

like what was that what was that republican strategist who like fred luntz all of a sudden it's like my yeah that dude he's like all of a sudden is like my yeah that dude he's like all of a sudden my bad I lied to y'all about climate change knew it the whole time I got a house in New Zealand good luck fuck y'all yeah yeah they know what they're doing of course they do yes and on a purely execution standpoint Greg Gutfeld's just kind of a try hard you know you gotta be more subtle than that in my opinion. Not subtle enough for you, huh? Yeah. I know I played Shapiro earlier.

And I mean, that's the subtle guy out there. Anyway, welcome to the network, guys. And I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Elijah, as always. Thanks, Marianne Hegler and Amy Westervelt. And thank you, Aaron Ryan, for co-hosting today.

Thank you, everyone. Go please subscribe to Hot Take if you haven't already. Have a great weekend and we will talk to you next week. Hot Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producer is Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez is our associatener Bernstein. Our producer is Haley Mews, and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer.

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