Pod Save America - "Everything’s Coming Up Brandon."

Episode Date: August 9, 2022

The Senate passes the biggest climate change legislation in history to cap off the best week of Joe Biden’s presidency, Donald Trump wins the CPAC straw poll after sharing the stage with fellow autocrat Viktor Orban, and later, Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes joins to talk about his campaign to replace Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson this November. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. 

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vito. Oh, wow. Okay, we got some stuff to get to right now. Let's go. Let's go. On today's show, the Senate passes the biggest climate change legislation in history to cap off the best week of Joe Biden's presidency. Donald Trump wins the CPAC straw poll after sharing the stage with fellow autocrat Victor Orban. And later, Lieutenant Governor Mandela Barnes joins to talk about his campaign to replace Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson this November. Before we get started, if you'd like to help get women around the country registered to vote and you enjoy being caffeinated, do we

have a new Crooked Coffee product for you? What is it? It's called the Cold Brewer, Tommy. Oh, yeah, that looks cool. Actually, I saw that. It's a sleek bottle that makes brewing your own cold brew at home super easy. And like all of crooked coffee, a portion of the proceeds will go to register her to mobilize women in underrepresented communities to get registered to vote and have their voices heard. Both the dark and medium water day roasts are perfect for cold brew. And this bottle makes it so simple. It's much better than a $6 cup at Starbucks. I like that we're going directly at Starbucks now. David and Goliath. Yeah, we're doing some contrast ads now.

Okay, get your cold brew now at crooked.com slash coffee. Alright, let's get to the news. Breaking news. I don't think we can use this. It's fair use. This is parody. We're talking about it. Here's what I love about this song. It rules. Anyway,

let's get to the breaking news. This is Monday afternoon here in LA. It's Monday afternoon. It's 4 p.m. Pacific Coast time. Sure is. You're hearing this Tuesday morning. But just minutes ago, before we walked into the studio, we got word that the FBI has searched Mar-a-Lago. And the reason we got word of that is because there was some reporter from

florida who couldn't quite confirm it and then donald trump confirmed it via state with a long statement yeah this is a reporter i wanted to get some highlights of the statement a reporter from florida said i'm hearing reports that mar-a-lago has been raided but i'm not a strong enough reporter to confirm it i've never seen anybody do that before i really respect the humility speed kills in this instance and he knew i gotta get that out there and then trump got his statement out and he said that they've even uh they've even they even broke into his safe yeah i think they got his uh ketchup stained pornos it's probably worth reading some of this statement shouldn't we yeah i mean you probably all know it by now but uh but let's we're we're still in this in surprise territory right

here yeah as you're as you're listening to us i mean the gist is he's very mad they broke into his safe he's upset that hillary clinton stole furniture from the white house decades ago as if apparently as if hillary's never had a run-in with the fbi um yeah that's about it pretty remarkable although you know our friend uh well i've never met the guy pop Popat on Twitter. He makes the point that to get a search warrant, what it means is that to get a federal search warrant, a federal agent submits an affidavit under oath to a federal magistrate judge setting what they want to search for, what items and what probable cause there is that are apparently evidence of a federal crime and then the magistrate tends to require thorough specifics well-documented applications to prove it and then you can get the search warrant so someone thinks there's something there in the criminal justice system this is what this is what you're getting from us at this moment we could spend the next half

hour just reading takes on twitter it's's amazing. This is just happening. They'll feel old by tomorrow but right now it'd be fun. There is a piece of me that wonders if this is specific to the classified material that he just had

sitting in boxes. That could be something. That could be something. That seems like something you'd rate. Again, this will date itself poorly probably this guess. Yeah, maybe.

Look, we've given Merrick Garland a lot of shit but he's eaten some he's definitely taken his legal blue shoes and he's getting... And he's up. This is the dark brain in me.

He's loose. This is going to take him up to a new level now. Hey, Biden's passing bills, Trump's passing FBI agents in the hallway. I'm telling you. Wow, wow. We're a little giddy. Okay.

We got him, people. We got him. Anyway, we'll talk about everything else. Great. Everyone continue to monitor. You two continue to monitor Twitter. Meanwhile, it's a turn to have to do giddy okay we got them people we got them anyway we'll talk about everything else great everyone continue to monitor uh you do continue to monitor twitter meanwhile it's turned out to have to do with like melania shoe brand or something yeah yeah all right uh other news on sunday the senate passed the inflation reduction act of 2022 a bill that will do more to fight climate change than any action by the u.s government in history it will allow medicare to negotiate for more affordable

prescription drugs for the first time in history. It will prevent health insurance premium increases for people who get their coverage through the Affordable Care Act. It will reduce the deficit and will pay for it all by cracking down on rich people who cheat on their taxes and billion-dollar corporations that don't pay any. The final vote, a 50-50 split that required Vice President Kamala Harris to break the tie, came after a few days of last-minute negotiations with Kyrsten Sinema and Republican antics that almost derailed the bill multiple times. But it's done. It's expected to pass the House later this week and then head to President Biden's desk where he will sign it into law. How about that, guys? I know we talked through most of the provisions in the initial Manchin-Schumer deal on last week's episode, but how are you both feeling about the, guys? I know we talked through most of the provisions in the initial mansion Schumer deal on last week's episode.

But how are you both feeling about the final product? It's a surprising feeling that it didn't completely collapse, right? We were like once again presented with a mansion compromise that seemed possible. And then we were waiting to see what cinema would do. Obviously, cinema did require that it be worse uh that's the that's the deal she made with private equity and the devil but uh it largely remained intact from what they announced there were some of the tax changes a couple things uh which uh it's a it's uh it's good it's wait i don't know what's the hesitation here I don't know hold on give me a

second if only you knew you'd be required to give a reaction to the bill for the fourth time I don't know why I thought that something better was going to come out that's good hope springs eternal you you heard it here first folks this is the analysis that you'd come for it's good let me let me let. I think once we when we heard the deal was announced, I think we were surprised by how good the climate provisions were on the whole and how much of what was in Build Back Better was preserved. I think we were nervous about what would happen next. We were nervous about what cinema would do. We were nervous about what happened when it hit a voterama and Republicans were proposing a bunch of amendments that could could have derailed the whole thing. And Republicans were proposing a bunch of amendments that could could have derailed the whole thing. I think it was a pleasant surprise that Democrats held together and that Sinema did make some demands for changes that made some of the tax provisions worse, you know, there's plenty of criticisms that we can talk about and we will talk about. But like the fact that we were able to get this done when a month ago it was dead, it was dead a month ago.

And then in a matter of days, we find out the deal exists and is now heading to the House and likely to President Biden to sign like that. That is great. That is a great thing that this happened because the alternative was it not happening. Which people seem to forget. Yeah, you gotta set your baseline to zero because that's kind of where we're coming from here. Much like the Recovery Act is built, is really divided into three parts. Oh my God.

That's a joke for four people. Yeah, well, two of them are right here and you triggered them. The climate change piece is, it gets us 80% of the way to the pledge we made at the Paris Climate Accord. So huge step forward. Obviously, we're going to have to build on.

But that's a big deal. I mean, it reduces emissions by 40% below 2005 levels. It's 2005 when we peaked. Not as a country. That was a bad year. That was personally? Well, 2005 was Brad and Jen divorced. Russell Crowe threw a phone at the front desk.

I had a hotel. And then Tom Cruise bounced on a couch, Oprah's couch. Wow. That was 2005? Yeah. Wow, what a year. Early a That was 2005? Yeah. Wow. What a year. Early aughts sucked.

Yeah. What a year. But was that when it peaked emissions wise? I don't know if it's exactly when it peaked, but we've been going down from around that time. And this will help us get to hopefully 40% reduction. We were on our way probably something like 25, 30 already. So it's a big step forward on top of where we're heading.

Yeah. And also, I mean, the US is responsible for a huge chunk of emissions through the industrial revolution, but per year, it's about 15% of global emissions. And so that means other countries are obviously gonna have to make cuts to get to where we need to go. This investment should lead to new technologies that we can sell or give to other countries and help them reduce emissions. And then the US, Biden has the next COP, the next climate change summit in, I think, Egypt in like three months. And now we can go and say, hey, look, we actually did something and push other countries to do more. So that's just enormous. And there's also like $60 billion worth of money for environmental justice provisions.

There's some things in there that suck. The leasing is frustrating. There's some, you know, things that will increase fossil fuel use in the short term but i think on balance um the renewables will hopefully drastically reduce demand for fossil fuels the u.s government spending 400 billion dollars uh to fight climate change is going to be transformative and the reason i know it's going to be transformative is because a bunch of independent experts people who do this for a living who studied this for a living ran the numbers and say that. And they all kind of found the same thing.

Yeah. You know, they're really lining up the like expert groups that are modeling it all out. And like, you know, I always, I of course think we need to do more. I think everyone who passed the bill knows that we need to do more. But like you said, it wasn't a choice between more and this bill. It was a choice between nothing. Nothing. And this bill it was a choice between nothing nothing in this bill and this and the reason we have this bill is because uh a guy from a coal state that donald trump won by 30 points uh was

willing to basically sign the death warrant for the biggest industry in his state uh because this is going to make clean energy more profitable than fossil fuels even though it does help fossil fuels in the short term unfortunately but in the long term it's going to make uh clean energy more profitable than fossil fuels, even though it does help fossil fuels in the short term, unfortunately. But in the long term, it's going to make clean energy more profitable by dumping all this money into the economy. And Joe Manchin was willing to go along with it. Coal state senator that went for, you know, a state that went for Trump by 30 points. So that's pretty amazing. It's amazing. That's pretty amazing. And there's also, you know, the healthcare piece. I mean, the prescription drug piece is huge. It is just crazy that our That's pretty amazing. that they can negotiate for, and that'll increase to 20 drugs. So that will save us a lot of money. 13 million people will be able to not see a huge premium increase if they get their healthcare insurance through the ACA. And then the tax provisions, I think, are really interesting

and transformative, the 15% minimum tax. And then this excise tax on stock buybacks is estimated to raise 73 billion or more over a decade. Yeah, so just so people... It's a huge deal. So Sinema demanded that they remove the provision closing the carried interest loopholes. This is a favor to private equity. But instead, they put this 1% tax on stock buybacks.

Stock buybacks are something where basically companies kind of enrich themselves and buy their stock back. And something that helps... Large shareholders. where basically companies kind of enrich themselves and buy their stock back. And something that helps large shareholders, like people that have- You buy your own stock, so there's fewer shares outstanding, so the price goes up. And so it basically is something that benefits fantastically wealthy people. So they replaced a tax that we really should fix that benefits extremely wealthy people for a different tax that will also tax really wealthy people. Both should be in there. We should be doing all of them. But I didn't see actually a

lot of people reporting on that, that there was this change. But also hopefully incentivize actually investing in R&D or CapEx. Like Apple spent over $400 billion on stock buybacks over the last decade. That's nearly double what they spent on R&D or capital expenditures. So hopefully this means they'll now be incentivized to spend more money on things that create more jobs. Yeah. So she helped the hedge fund folks with the carried interest loophole. She helped some private equity folks by exempting them from the corporate minimum tax, but then she put back in the stock buybacks, which I guess was Mark Warner's idea to get it back in the bill to fill the hole that she left when she took that other stuff out.

She also added, by the way, more climate money for drought mitigation in Western states. Five billion. A good thing that she did. And then the other things that changed from the initial deal, Republicans successfully killed a $35 cap on insulin per month since it didn't qualify for reconciliation under the budget rules. And so it didn't qualify. Democrats decided to keep it in the bill anyway, which then would require 60 votes to pass, not 50, because it didn't comply with reconciliation rules. And Democrats got 57. They got seven Republicans on board, but they needed three more. Some people were like, why didn't Schumer just ignore the parliamentarian?

Well, they did. They put it in the bill. They needed 60. Otherwise, you can't just, the only way you could do that otherwise is if you ignore the parliamentarian, but then Manchin and Sinema have said that if you completely ignore the parliamentarian,

that you wouldn't get their votes anymore. The reason we can't do it is because of the same fucking mess we've been in for years. Yeah. Yeah. It's the same problem. And again, to clarify that, what we failed to do was cap out-of-pocket insulin costs for people who have private insurance. We did cap it for Medicare recipients. Very good point. Yeah. And

similarly, another thing the parliamentarian did, Democrats wanted to require drug companies to pay rebates if the price of medicine rises faster than inflation. And they wanted this to cover patients under both Medicare and private insurance. parliamentarian ruled it can only apply to Medicare patients. So the rebate goes to Medicare patients too. Again, anything that affects the federal budget is fair game and reconciliation. Anything that goes to the private sector, they have a harder time passing through reconciliation, unfortunately. Bernie Sanders was not thrilled with the final bill, even though he still voted for it. And, you know, we saw a number of progressive activists share similar sentiments

on Twitter and elsewhere. What would you guys say to people who might be disappointed by where we ended up? Love it. You know, I went, you look at what Bernie actually said in full. I feel like there were sort of kind of two kinds of criticisms that I saw. One was, you know, Bernie largely, he criticized the fossil fuel subsidies and the parts of this that will do increased leasing and fair enough. But the lion's share of his criticism was basically saying we should be doing Build Back Better. There are a lot of really important things in Build Back Better. And there was both a policy critique and a political critique.

The policy critique is these are things this country needs. There is inflation. There are these incredibly high costs. We are failing to address them because we lack two votes. And he's very frustrated by that. And he just wanted to make a kind of final plea for doing the larger build back better plan. And fair enough, there was really good stuff in that plan for pre-K, for child care, for health care across the board. Then there's this criticism on the climate provisions themselves. And the fact that this is a climate crisis, this is the biggest investment in American history. But in reality, we haven't made very many investments in this in the past. And when you compare it to other things we call priorities like the military, it's still a paltry amount compared to the scale of the crisis. And

fair enough. My view on this is, yeah, we should do more of what was in Build Back Better. We need more senators to do it. And on the question of these climate provisions themselves, just looking at the climate proposals themselves, I actually think it's important that we declare a victory, not the victory, not the final victory. But after such a long time of being unable to do anything, you want Congress to do more? Absolutely. You want Congress to do more on social safety? Absolutely. On climate? Absolutely. But like, I get saying they don't go far enough. Of course, we need to do more. But I do think it's important as a movement that we take moments to kind of celebrate victories, to celebrate hard fought wins that will make a difference.

Like we just no one wants to be part of a movement where every every happy moment is cringe and every victory is a secret loss. It's just not a way to do politics that brings more people in that's persuasive, that makes people want to be part of a movement. We should declare a victory, not the final victory, but a victory nonetheless. I was just going to say the celebration is not about the job being done. The celebration is to tell people that you can make progress and to inspire people to continue making progress because we can actually see the gains, which is what this bill is doing right now. We're actually seeing real progress happen. And that's why you celebrate. You don't celebrate to say, oh, we did enough and that's it.

You can tweet that you like Maggie Rogers' new album. And that's not a criticism of Beyonce's new album because you didn't also tweet about that. They're separate issues. Did you get in trouble? I might have gotten a little feedback. Did you get in trouble? I might have gotten a little feedback. I'm sorry.

I missed that. It's okay. But again, you reelect a Democratic House. We have two more Democratic senators who are willing to get rid of the filibuster. We're going to get more progressive policies. You know how we know that? Because everyone else on the Democratic Party in Congress signed off on the three and a half trillion dollar bill. You know what I'm saying? So we know this.

It's not, we don't have to take them for their word. They all voted for this shit. We're two senators away now if we really like the Democratic House. So that's good news. And to clarify, Beyonce's album is also great. I think so too. I want the B-hat to know that. I think so too. No, I would never. I think that. The lessons for me are the climate activists, again, they should take the win because they won something, which was drive climate to the top of the agenda. So while all this other stuff was

getting cut out, Medicare expansion to include dental, vision, hearing, paid medical leave, like all these other things got stripped away, but climate stayed in. And that was because of great work and activism and because the planet's burning. Two, having majorities in the Senate and the House is everything. It's everything. We can't kick Joe Manchin out of the party. We need his vote. This is why. Lastly, the thing that frustrates me the most in all of politics is the people who say all politicians are bad, all the parties are bad, they're all the same. No, they are not. Every Republican voted against this bill. Within the Democratic Party, there are really great politicians and there are some kind of shitty ones. Anyone who tells you they're all the same is lazy, stupid, or trying to mislead you.

Do not listen to them. Listen to the climate experts and what they're saying about the impact of this bill. Also, there are some politicians who are really great sometimes and shitty other times and great on some issues and shitty on other issues. People are complicated. You don't have to have them be your heroes or your villains. They work for you. They work for you. They are instruments of progress or not. And it's our job to continue pushing them.

And guess what? That happens on Election Day. It happens between Election Days. Voting is important. Public pressure is also important. And so you just got to keep up the organizing and keep up the pressure. So Joe Biden, Joe Biden. Heard of him.

And the Democratic Congress have now passed a climate change bill, a health care bill, a prescription drug bill, a COVID relief bill, a bipartisan infrastructure bill, a bipartisan gun violence bill, a bipartisan bill to expand health care for veterans who've been exposed to burn pits, and a bipartisan bill to help America compete with China for semiconductor jobs. This has led Politico Playbook, the publication we trust and value the most. And go to. As everyone has known for a long time here at Pod Save America, what we think about Politico Playbook. They called Joe Biden, quote, one of the most legislatively successful presidents of the modern era. Damn.

You know what I think? What? I think Biden's passing bills, Trump's passing FBI agents in the hallway. You said that joke earlier, right? Yeah, I did. Okay, good. I just wanted to say. Also, in just the last 10 days, Biden also took executive action to protect abortion access,

announced the successful mission to kill an al-Qaeda leader, and is presiding over an economy where inflation is still high, but gas prices are falling and unemployment is at record lows. Everything's coming up, Brandon, guys. And he did a lot of that. Everything's coming up, Brandon. He did that when he had COVID. Yeah, he was in isolation. I saw some meme yesterday. Some meme said, defeated COVID twice.

I mean, that's another accomplishment. They finally found a meme that works for them. They settled on it. That's not easy. Do you want to talk about the dark Brandon thing for a second? I barely know what it is. I had to read a Slate story about it. How'd that go?

I only understand it just a little bit more now. But the White House is tweeting it out. They got Joe Biden with glowy eyes. Layers layers of irony on irony he had a good week yeah there's think pieces about it yeah good week think pieces about the dark brandon meme anyway i just i would i would pay a lot of money to hear someone in the white house explain to joe biden the dark brandon me that's what i want because where does that explanation begin like what is a meme what is the web? Dark Brandon.

What's with my eye? Why did you tweet out my eyes like that? What's a tweet? In Bletchley Park, they made something called the Enigma Machine. Is that where it starts? No. Okay. All right.

I'll do a more serious question. Sure. So, obviously, we have no idea whether the string of good news will affect the midterms. But if you are in the White House or if you're running a Democratic campaign, how do you talk about all these accomplishments? How do they change your strategy, if at all? Are we back to hashtags Democrats deliver? It's not. No, no, we're not. Good. Yeah. I was thinking about this. I feel like there's a spectrum and it runs from Obama early 2009 to Trump all the time. Like Obama 2009 is having an incredibly successful legislative period, passing a recovery act, passing a student loan

bill, passing a healthcare bill, passing a wall street bill. But you know, we, we, we went through this and where the, the, the, the economy was still doing terribly, you couldn't tell people that you'd solve their problems. And you also can't brag about how much worse things could have been but for your interventions. And so you're really careful about how you talk about your accomplishments. That runs all the way to Trump. So many caveats. So many caveats. Five paragraphs of throat clearing about how tough it is out there before you get to your first accomplishment.

Before the three parts of the recovery. And by the time you get to there, the CNN has switched. CNN is gone. They're out. They're out. And then you have Trump that just declares victory. Of course, that didn't really work for him. People can see with their eyes.

It doesn't really work. So you need to find something in the middle. And I do think that based on how Republicans have been behaving, with a kind of like imperiousness and assumption that they will face no political repercussions for virtually any decision. I think it's just about the choice. You just lay these things out. Democrats, you know, all of these bills, even the ones that had the most bipartisan support, were opposed by the majority of Republicans, right? You can try to call them, they are on some level bipartisan, but Republicans whipped against the manufacturing bill. They have tried to stop every single one of these. They lost some people,

but they did try to stop them. And so you just make the choice. Here's what we tried to do. They tried to, they stripped out our ability to make insulin cheaper for everybody. We wanted to make America more competitive. They voted against the bill. We wanted to stop gun violence. Most of them voted against the bill. You just paint the picture of the choice that they're making. They threw in a fit of pique, tried to stop us from helping veterans, right? That's what's at stake. Yeah. I mean, the hard part of this bill, like you alluded to, is that like the Affordable Care Act, it will take years to be felt. It will take years to go into effect. So it's not like you can run on, hey, Joe Biden just sent you a check, like cash or stimmy vote for me, whatever.

And so we have to sell, I think, a narrative that Democrats get things done while the Republican Party is obstructionist and extreme in all these ways. We tried to cap the cost of insulin, Republicans blocked it. Republicans voted against healthcare from veterans who got sick inhaling toxic fumes in Iraq and Afghanistan, Democrats got it done. And so I think that's the core message is sort of talking about momentum and all the things the Democratic Party did. And I think that's kind of where the take the win message comes in, because we have to buck our own party up because a lot of people are understandably bummed out and disappointed about the lack of progress of a year of getting

mentioned. But then just talk about the contrast and the choice. I mean, that's what elections are. It's about, you know, imperfect choices. And I think, unfortunately, part of this will be a little bit luck of luck because we need gas prices to keep going down in the short term. And that is probably going to have less to do with anything that happens in Washington than like China's COVID policies and whether they still have a COVID zero policy and they lock down their economy constantly and it disrupts demand. But hopefully the Fed's interest rate increases will work. Inflation will go down. These jobs numbers were really good. But there is a bit of like a sentiment, feelings about the economy that is hard to drive if you're the president, but it goes a long way towards contributing to whether people think

the country's on the right track or the wrong track, whether they support you or they don't. And that's why I think, too, as president, your job is not to be the daily barometer of how the economy is doing or not. It's who's fighting for you, right? Democrats are fighting for what people care about, right? Your number one issue is inflation. Absolutely. We're trying to lower the cost of your energy bills, the cost of your healthcare bills, cost of your prescription drugs. And Republicans voted against all that shit. And you know what they care about? They're out there trying to criminalize abortion. They're coming after gay marriage, right? They're not even paying attention to the issues that you care about most, which is the cost of everything in

your life right now, which Democrats are fighting for. And they're off because they're so extreme. They're trying to do all this other shit. And that's what they're going to do if they if they take power. It's so funny that we're talking about how Joe Biden should sell like the greatest legislative success since FDR and Trump's out there announcing an FBI raid on himself. It's a real competing strategies here. It's quite a contrast. All right. Well, just so we don't get too optimistic about politics, let's talk about the conservative political action conference known as CPAC that was held in Dallas, Texas over the weekend. CPAC is now for the hardest of hardcore MAGA fans. Donald Trump spoke and was once again the overwhelming favorite of the attendees. 69% said they want Trump to be the

GOP nominee in 2024, while 24% chose Ron DeSantis. That's a bigger margin for Trump than he got at February's CPAC conference in Orlando. A straw poll conducted by his pollster at a conference run by Matt Schlapp and his wife, Mercedes Schlapp, who also worked for Trump. So I don't know that we put a lot of stock in this poll. Well, okay. Well, all the public polls still have him ahead too. But the fellow authoritarian who stole the CPAC spotlight from Trump wasn't DeSantis, wasn't a potential 24 rival. It was the prime minister of Hungary, victor orban here's a clip hungary shall protect the institution of marriage and the union of one man and one woman we don't need more genders we need more rangers less drag queens and more chuck norris

the globalists can all go to hell i have come to texas we must coordinate the movement of our és Chuck Norris. A globalista mindenki mehet a helyre, én is tettem Texasba. A munkákat kell különbözni, mert a különböző kérdésünk van. Az előadás a közvetlen elején van. És az Európai Parlament

előadása van. Ezek a két helyet a két helyet a veszélyes civilizációhoz year. These two locations will define the two fronts in the battle being fought for Western civilization. Today, we hold neither of them. Yet, we need both. Tommy, why the hell was the Hungarian Prime Minister invited to CPAC? And for our listeners who aren't yet worldos, can you talk about why Orbán is such a dangerous figure? Sure. What did he say about Chuck Norris? He was trying to Texas it up a little bit.

So he said, we need not more genders, more rangers. And then he said, not more drag queens, more Chuck Norrises. Man, that's really dated. It's dated, a little complicated. According to the first Google result on DuckDuckGo, the Chuck Norris meme also emerged in 2005. So it's a real theme. Viktor Orban sucks. He is the prime minister of Hungary.

He spent the last decade crushing their democracy. He basically took over the free press by putting his sycophants in charge. He gerrymandered their elections. In April, his party got 54% of the vote, but 83% of the district. So it's a far more extreme gerrymander than ours. And he's changed the constitution to a trench's power and stuffed the courts full of his cronies and basically created this kleptocratic mafia-like state where businesses have to support the Fidesz party, his political party, or else they can get taken over or shut

down or harassed by the tax authorities. He's anti-gay, he's anti-immigrant, and he demagogues George Soros in a way that it's incredibly anti-Semitic. And so Orban, none of this is secret. He's been like this for a long time, but a few weeks ago he gave a speech where he said, we Hungarians are not mixed race and we do not want to become a mixed race. That's pretty specific. Yeah. I mean, his own advisor called it, quote, a purely Nazi diatribe worthy of Joseph Goebbels. But CPAC still welcomed him.

And that doesn't really surprise me because Trump loves Orban. He endorsed him. The Maganots want to emulate Orban and do what he did to Hungary here. And Orban is in many ways a much smarter, more effective Trump and someone we should be really worried about. Trump invited him

to Bedminster on Tuesday. Yeah, and look, Orban's speech was like, we basically autocrats, these white nationalists need to coordinate to crush our enemies, the Democrats.

And, you know, that's where CPAC is where the Republican Party is going. You know, they're more extreme and more authoritarian. It's a fascist organization. CPAC is now a fascist. It's an outpost for international fascism. This was an international fascist conference. That's why you have Victor

Orban. He's talking about a international fascist movement taking wants that he wants to connect and collaborate between Europe and the United States and around the world. This is, you know, saying we, you know, attacking transgender people saying we need fewer drag queens and more rangers or whatever it's just pure fascist rhetoric uh that's what the conference has become that's why you see a kind of and and it is you know like fascism isn't isn't coherent it doesn't have to be it's a permission structure for people to be their absolute most vile selves and that is why it kind of spreads from the top down it's why you see reporters being harassed at this conference and being kind of yelled at and followed around by people smiling and jeering at them it is a kind of spreading vicious ideology and this is the

outpost the united states of america and it's um you know we we should just call it what it is they were interviewing uh attendees about orban's mixed race comments too. And you had a bunch of attendees saying things like, Ooh, I don't know about that. That's, that's a little uncomfortable. And then they called one back and they're like,

but you know what? He's pretty perfect. Otherwise it's pretty great. The whole package is great. I don't know about that, but you can see how it's just like, yeah, yeah,

yeah, that's fine. That's the other thing about it too, is that they're all part of the team. They're there as part of the team. They have to defend themselves. There's no, there's no comments. That's, that's too, yeah, that's fine. Well, they know. That's the other thing about it, too, is that they're all part of the team. They're there as part of the team. They have to defend themselves. There's no comment that's too extreme for them to. And it's also a very old idea.

They're both in on the joke. And the attendees at CPAC, they are both being misled, but they know it. And they feel as though they're part of the team doing the misleading. Yeah, and they love that in 2015, he was the harshest on migrants coming from places like Syria or Afghanistan. I mean, basically Muslims. And, you know, in 2014, he said the new state that we are building in Hungary is an illiberal state. So all this gerrymandering and sort of, you know, legalized autocracy is kind of what he's overtly for.

And I think what Republicans want. And also why you see now increasingly Republican candidates, when they're not vilifying reporters from mainstream outlets, they're no longer even talking to them. Yeah, they don't even engage. They don't let them in. They don't let them into their events. It's all part of the same kind of permission structure for abandoning all the kind of liberal values that have been at the core of, you know, the thing we pretended America was at least for a while. Well, so yeah, speaking of America, Trump delivered a version of the new stump speech he first gave in D.C. a few weeks ago, where he now casually proposes the death penalty for drug dealers in 10 cities for people experiencing homelessness.

Which he probably stole from Rodrigo Duterte over in the Philippines. Right, of course. Here's a clip of Trump's almost two-hour speech at CPAC. If you instituted the death penalty for drug dealers, traffickers, I believe that drug dealing would go down 50% on day one. I'll tell you one thing, if I'm a drug dealer, I'm going to say no thanks, I'm going someplace else. The only way you're going to remove the homeless encampments and reclaim our downtowns is to open up large parcels. Create 10 cities. You have to have it. We have to abolish the Green New Deal. Ronnie Jackson, my doctor.

He loved looking at my body. It was so strong and powerful. He loved looking at my body. It was so strong and powerful. I ran twice, I won twice, and did much better the second time than I did the first, getting millions and millions of more votes. And now we may have to do it again. I did not. Love looking at my body. Love looking at my body. I think he's being funny. Legitimately funny.

He's being funny. That is Trump where he's actually charming and funny. He's like making fun of himself as a good joke yeah he made it yeah it's yeah you were saying orvon's a more effective trump but i do think trump's funnier yeah orvon's jokes he commands that was uh i did not uh watch this speech nor did i um but i saw i was scrolling through twitter when it was on and our pal tim miller said i hate to ruin everyone's weekends, but this is absolutely the speech of someone who was running for president again. And definitely in, in pole position leading the field here and has a very strong grip on the party.

He writes something more about it for the bulwark today. And I could not agree more. I was definitely like over the last couple of months flirting with the like, can DeSantis do it? Can DeSantis take them down? I don't know. I don't know. You watch a speech like that and you see the crowd.

And I know that CPAC and I know they're like special mega hardcore fans, but that's a it's going to be tough for Ron DeSantis to take him down. I think I'd like to see him try. I think maybe he could do it. I think the question of will Trump run again? To me, the way to answer that is, what does he have to do that's a better use of his time? Unless this FBI raid goes really, really well. Right. I mean, they just took all his pornos. So now what's he have to do that's a better use of his time? Unless this FBI raid goes really, really well. Right. I mean, they just took all his pornos.

So now what's he going to do? Yeah. I mean, he basically says, he says America's on the edge of an abyss and our movement is the only force on earth that can save it. It's so apocalyptic. That's not something he's planning. And so I'm handing it over to Ron DeSantis.

I don't think so. What if the FBI raid is Ron DeSantis in like a FBI costume jacket? I mean, this is is all like our this is our horse race speculation about it but the real danger here is that the republican primary is going to end up being or could end up being trump desantis and others just trying to out fascist each other oh absolutely right look we they're all it's it's all these forces are just pulling them further and further to the right, further extreme so that each one of them has to paint a darker image of America. You know, I mean, that's what's really scary about that. Yeah, I mean, look, you know, we there's this little, you know, obviously there's this kerfuffle about the DCCC running ads for a for a right wing goon and in Michigan.

and in Michigan. And the problem here is there are plenty of places all across the country where the D-triple-T didn't have to run an ad for the Republican base to choose the most despicable, vile human beings on earth. You know, we talk a lot about what we need to do to preserve democracy, but like this larger threat, it is hard to have a democratic society in a country where huge preponderance of people aren't Democrats, small d Democrats. And like the Republican primaries across the country are now fucking pasta makers that take in dough and extrude these fucking fascists, no matter what they went in looking like. At the risk of getting a job on the New York Times op-ed page, I am concerned that both sides rhetorically,

the right, they have this apocalyptic vision, like the great replacement theory, the left is going to destroy us. And then on the left, we're like, these people are trying to destroy our democracy. And I believe that very much to be true,

but it's frightening to hear these two competing visions of like the world ending. Well, I'm not sure how that strikes like the average voter who pays attention to politics for like the two weeks before an election i think about that a lot because i like you genuinely believe that this is a threat to democracy as do not just a bunch of like

wild-eyed liberals like us but a lot of former republicans like our friend tim miller like other people who had once been conservatives and are people like liz cheney who are still extremely conservative on most issues but are still worried that that donald trump and the movement is a threat to democracy right cheney dick yeah we got fucking someone wheeled dick cheney out literally and he was yeah it took him out of a fucking that fucking giant mechanical so i know but i i wonder you know i think average people going about their day may not see that threat who don't pay as close attention to the news as we do and don't consume this stuff all day long and don't pay attention to what's happening at CPAC. But people should start paying attention. into the streets. You know, it's not like El-Sisi in Egypt. It's you get a two-thirds majority in parliament so you can change the constitution. So you gerrymander the districts. You pack the courts and ignore the ones you don't like. And your cronies take over the media so no one hears

from the opposition. Like that's the slower, long lead time version of an illiberal state. Yes. Well, and you know, you pose this thing, well, what do we do when like, you know, the two visions are these two extremes. One is a fascistic vision for the future of this country. The other is a group of people desperately trying to raise the alarm about the fascistic threat to this country. And you say, well, how do we end up, how do we end up in this mess? Right? Like what were the weaknesses that allowed us to be in a situation where it's basically a controversy, right? Which of these two polls is going to win out. And one of the reasons we were weak to fascism is because the mainstream press in this country cannot be honest about the threats that

we face. They are enamored of a kind of objectivity that has left us vulnerable, that it has made it seem as though it's a partisan exercise to defend democracy. And when we look back on this era and we see mainstream outlets spending way too much time worried about trans swimmers and pronouns and woke politics and cancel culture on college campuses and what happened to dave chapelle because these people didn't know their fucking enemy staring them in the face this will be why this will be one of the reasons it either got so close or we fell over the edge yeah but i think um that fewer people are reading those terrible new y York Times op-eds than you might imagine. No, no, no. It's not a force.

I think a much bigger problem is not like we can all yell about the mainstream media, and you've heard me do it plenty of times. There are just an enormous number of people in this country who are not consuming that media. And if Maggie Haberman and Peter Baker and all the rest of them got together and said, Trump is a fascist, let's put it on the headline of the New York Times, I do not know that it would make much of a difference at this point with all the people in this country who are consuming all kinds of horrible propaganda from the right. Of course, of course. I'm not saying these specific things would solve the problem,

but as part of a collective failure of all the kind of institutions that inform people to be honest about the threat, to focus on the threat that involves. Yet, like, look, the New York Times remains the kind of like assignment editor for a lot of press across the country. It affects what becomes the lead story about national politics on local news, what happens on local news stations, many of which are now conservative, is a lot of the ways people get information.

All of these different things are failing to properly talk about the threat that is one of the great weaknesses we have and the fact that all of our news is then kind of mediated through these social media platforms that only that only exactly that only getting their news from tiktok who's who's moderating that one right that only lifts up the most extreme thing dark brandon runs that shit now that's what's no the solution is we democrats need to make sure that we attack others within our party who have marginally different policies than us all day every day that is how we're gonna get i was like wow we got the bill done the the fights about it we're just like instantly onto him like everyone take a fucking breath for 10 seconds and just i think that to your point i mean that's

like 100 people that just it is it is it people. But unfortunately, there are people who have some influence on the elite opinion. All right. Speaking of Trump, we're somehow still getting new tell-all books about him. Speaking of insular conversations also, Maggie Habermans will be out in October. I'll read it. But Axios reported today that her book will include a story about how the White House resident staff periodically found documents that Trump tried to flush down his toilets. Unfortunately for all of us, there were pictures. Who snapped that photo?

Excuse me. You walk into the president's shitter and there's a piece of paper that says Stefanik on it. You take a picture. I take a picture and he's like, of course you would. That's where his ass was. That's the piece of paper. We included this story this morning. I feel like the FBI raids really overshadowed this documents in the shitter story.

I think you're safe. You're on safe ground with that assessment. Meanwhile, Maggie's colleague at the Times, Peter Baker, I also just mentioned, along with his wife, Susan Glasser of The New Yorker. They have a new book out that says Trump once asked Chief of Staff John Kelly, why can't you be like the German generals in World War Two? why can't you be like the german generals in world war ii that's which is such a funny because kelly kelly's next sentence is uh you do know they tried to kill hitler three times which is a very funny response and i hope he actually said but it's such a funny statement you just step back obviously it's it's madness but it's like they tried to kill hitler and then they lost there's a there's a movie about it yeah that's where his head went i don't think he was thinking that far ahead someone rent

valkyrie for the guy yeah he's just thinking i need generals like that that's all he's thinking every time you watch valkyrie like this time yeah come on they're gonna get him at the time i don't know i mean back to our conversation we were just having like i i feel like the shock of these revolutions just it's wearing off but but at the same time the guy seems like he's ready to run again and they should matter and we should figure out a way to make these revelations matter. Here's the thing. So the New Yorker piece that's an excerpt from this book leads with a scene where Trump tells his team he wants an Independence Day parade.

He wants a military parade through Washington, D.C. with like tanks and shit, like a good old dictator. And it quotes Trump saying to his chief of staff, John Kelly, I don't want any wounded veterans in the parade. That doesn't look good for me. We've seen that reported before, but it was like kind of not in quotes. It was backgrounds. If John Kelly, four-star Marine general who lost his son in combat, goes on TV, does a interview about Trump saying this to him on camera, that is powerful. That could be potentially devastating for Trump. But if the Committee to Save America guys just go to, what's the fancy place in Georgetown called that we always make fun of? Thank you, John.

Cafe Milano. And whisper on background to New Yorker feature writers. It's just going to be the endless cycle of everything. Every bad revelation about Trump is fake news and it gets denied. And then the New York Times says a diner in Cleveland is full of people who have never heard of the story. And they're right. And we're on to the next thing. I guess what I feel about this is a lot of this is actually just sort of giving more color and kind of detail to stories we'd already known. I mean, we're a nerd to it, but there have been many reports of Trump having collected works of Hitler at his bedside table.

The one book he went back to. That's right. And it's also the summer of 2022. So it's like if we're going to hear more from John Kelly, if we can hear more from Mattis, we're gonna hear more from from from any of these generals. I'm all for it. Let's I'd love to see it in September of 2024. I was going to say, I think that I think the key is not you're right, Tommy, that people like John Kelly have to go out and say this publicly. But he just needs to be a constant drumbeat all the time, every day.

We're a couple of weeks out from the last episode of Insurrection. Doesn't it already feel like it's starting to become too distant of a memory, the January 6th hearings? And I'm like, no, no, we had it for a moment. It felt like, yeah, it's right there. It's like Liz Cheney should run a hearing every day. Can we have her run a hearing every day from now until 2024? I hope she does. There's this book by Ishiguro called The Buried Giant and it's about a fog that falls over England

that makes them all lose their memories and we live under that fog. Oh God, yeah, every day. And it's just, we live under it and things do not last. And so it's like, gonna we're gonna do with trump it's not gonna matter for a year or more yeah uh one right unless he goes to fucking jail again again any updates any updates let me let me refresh unless unless garland takes

some of this compound v and fucking drags trump out of that fucking gauche hotel throws him in a fucking cell what is compound v it's the it's the it's the liquid from uh the boys that makes you a superhero another boy's reference um it's the same boy's reference i'm getting left behind okay last item cultures one right-wing monster who didn't attend cpac was alex jones uh who a jury just ordered to pay 45 million dollars in punitive damages to the parents of a six-year-old boy who was murdered in the sandy hook shooting jones had previously been found liable for defamation and, quote, intentional infliction of emotional distress against the parents for repeatedly lying and

spreading conspiracies about the massacre, the victims, and their families, including that they were all just crisis actors who made it up, and it was a false flag operation by the federal government. Here is a clip of the judge addressing Jones during the trial. This is not your show. Do you understand what I have said? Yes, I believe what I said was true. So I guess you believe everything you say is true, but it isn't. Love it. What was your what was your reaction to that? I thought it was very interesting that you point out this isn't your show. Yeah. This isn't your show. So, first of all, it seems hard to, he should be charged with perjury.

And it will be strange if that doesn't happen, given how many times the judge had to instruct Alex Jones to stop lying on the stand. There's something that, you know, you're obviously under oath in a courtroom. obviously under oath in a courtroom, but also just beyond that, there's a kind of rhythm to a court proceeding that can't be kind of overwhelmed by like pizzazz and showmanship and lies. You know, like you can go on television and you can say all you want, the two plus two equals five, two plus two equals five. But then you get in that courtroom and you have to, you are under oath, your lawyers are officers of the court. There are these, it's this bastion where the kind of, the rules of gravity being suspended no longer apply.

And once just a little bit of their fucking coat gets caught in the Greek years of the justice system, they get kind of ground up, you know, discovery happens. The lawyer hands over the fucking text. Now those go to January 6th. You know, the big lie attorneys, you know, the Kraken attorneys, they lie attorneys, you know, the cracking attorneys, they go in front of a judge.

The judge says, have you found fraud? They have to say no, right? Like once that kind of, it's hard to get these people in a courtroom and it's been hard to get Trump in a courtroom. And it's been hard to get Giuliani in a courtroom. But once we get them in a fucking courtroom,

uh, their powers, uh, uh, leave them. Yeah. I mean, I think what I took away from this trial was,

um, Alex Jones did what he did for money. There was a point where InfoWars was making $800,000 a day, a day. And what he would do was he would sell his listeners on this barrage of like the paranoid delusional fantasies. And then he'd sell them supplements or like doomsday prepper packs or whatever other gold, like apocalyptic fantasies and i was listening i played a clip for you guys in our office earlier in may he literally berated his audience for not spending enough in the info war store saying if you don't support us you're

helping the enemy and then what we learned at this trial is he lied about everything because his idiot lawyer turned over his a copy of his phone for two full years to the defense counsel, to the other counsel for some reason. And what we know is, you know, Alex Jones lied to the press. He lied to his audience. He lied to the lawyers, to the San Diego parents. He lied to the court. He is the scum of the earth. What drives me crazy about Alex Jones is there is a there's a group of people who treat him like he's funny or harmless or you can ironically like him because he's putting on a show that Joe Rogan is kind of in this category. No, this man tortured the families of six year old kids who were murdered.

People went to their homes and harassed them. And then he uses insane conspiracy theories to bilk the audience. He's he's constructed through these theories for cash. And he's a scumbag. And I agree. I think he perjured himself and he will likely get prosecuted for this. But Infowars should be shut down. There's nothing First Amendment protected about spreading, knowingly spreading lies about the death of six-year-olds. And now we know that his texts were turned over to the January 6th committee. There's a report in the Daily Beast that Tucker Carlson is terrified

about his text chains with Alex Jones leaking. So a lot more could come from this hearing. You hear the daily episode about it today? Yes, it's heartbreaking. That's what I took

from this whole thing. I mean, I knew all this, of course, but so often I think the media coverage focuses on Alex Jones and his conspiracies and disinformation. And it's sort of just like esoteric concept. And you hear the father of this six year old talk about dropping him off and holding his dead. I mean, it was called a crisis actor.

It is horrifying. What like these are just lies. Lies seems like to a benign of a word. Conspiracy seems like to benign of a word. Conspiracy seems like too benign of a word. You know, it's like when you hear what these parents and what these families who have lost their children have gone through because of this fucking man who was just trying to make money off them. It is horrific. Horrific. Scum of the earth.

Absolutely scum of the earth. Just scum of the earth. Bad guy, Alex Jones. Bad guy. And also, like, you know, InfoWars was seen as fringe and it didn't matter, but it really did. absolutely scum of the earth just just scum of the earth bad guy alex jones bad guy and also like you know we make info wars was seen as fringe and it didn't matter but it really did drive a a narrative in a in a subset of like the maga fortune q anon world that is it did damage to the country you know and alex jones that's what's called that's the media that's causing fascism

in the clips of alex jones on january 5th and 6th, telling people they're going to war, cheering them into the attack of the Capitol. Well, they're preying on, look, there are these disenchanted, broken, mostly men who are looking for someone to confirm their kind of violent, angry, solipsistic worldview. And the far right is co-opting these people and kind of slowly pulling them down the rabbit hole from, you know, Ben Shapiro to Tucker Carlson to some of the more French. With the help of all the algorithms. Until they get down to Alex Jones. Again, I don't, I actually, I don't think that like, this is what is, I mean, this is, is it, this is like the, this is what makes a group of fascists dangerous like, this is what is, I mean, this is, is it, this is like the, this is what makes a group of fascists dangerous. This is not what is, look, Fox News and the larger right-wing ecosystem is what is propelling the rise of fascism in this country. What Alex Jones is doing is capitalizing on that audience and making a part of it far more dangerous and

caustic and violent. Well, you know, who's going to take care of it? Dark Brandon. Dark B. Yeah. And you won't be able to take care of it if you're not caffeinated crooked.com slash coffee when we come back he's moving a lot of merch this fucking asshole what are we doing we gotta get into the we gotta get into the gold game like ron paul i don't think we should do that when we come back love it and i talk to lieutenant governor mandela barns who is about to be the democratic nominee for senate in wisconsin joining us now is wisconsin's lieutenant governor and future Senator Mandela Barnes. Welcome back to the pod. Man, so happy to be back. Appreciate the invite. Really happy to talk about this race.

Yeah. I mean, before we get to the race, I wanted to ask you, the Senate just passed the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 on Sunday. Senator, you're running to replace Ron Johnson, voted against it. What do you think about the bill? Well, I am so shocked that he voted against it, right? I mean, it's ridiculous. Anything that does good for people, especially young people, or just the future of this country. I mean, given the fact that he's attacked Social Security and Medicare, even for our Asian population. He's just not been there for us. But I'm incredibly excited that the Senate has done something to get to work for the American people. I've always lived with the fact that the Senate is broken because the real perspective and

American experience is missing. I can't think of many more out of touch places, right? This is a millionaire's club. And that's just not the reality for a majority of people in the state of Wisconsin, not a reality for a majority of people across this country. And to see the Senate act on such a significant piece of legislation is something that does make me excited. But it also gets me amped up for the work that's still, the work that's yet to come. Yeah, I wanted to ask because, you know, another senator who's endorsed you, Bernie Sanders,

voted for it, but said it would have minimal impact on inflation, said it turns its back on working families. What do you make of Bernie's criticism and just, you know, progressive activists who might be out there and say, you know, a little disappointed, I wish we could have done more? Well, I'll say there's always more to do. And we've been held up from progress for far too long, having to always sit out and wait to wait for a deal that works for Kyrsten Sinema or a deal that works for Joe Manchin. When so many more people across this country, the overwhelming maturity of people across this country support

things that are more significant. I get it. The fact is, that's why this race is so important. That's why this cycle is so important. I would have certainly voted for it with the understanding, with the idea that, yeah, we should still push for more, but we won't get more until we have a U.S. Senate that is more reflective of who we are as a country. And that starts this November 8th when we flip Pennsylvania, we flip Wisconsin and whatever other state that's in the cards for us. But there's a lot of hard work ahead and people get what's at stake here. And the fact is Ron Johnson is going to be a reliable no on anything that moves us forward. And I'm incredibly proud of the support that I've

gotten all throughout this campaign. Bernie Sanders was an endorser, but we have expanded our support to include the entirety of the Democratic Party, people like House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn, Senator Elizabeth Warren, Senator Cory Booker. And I'm excited to have a chance to work with them to push for push forward for the people of this country who have been waiting for so much more than we've been getting. So speaking of Ron Johnson as a reliable no vote, your future colleague, Senator Tammy Baldwin, introduced the Respect for Marriage Act. She's trying to wrangle up 10 Republicans. And all of a sudden you see Ron Johnson say he sees no reason not to support it, which was surprising because he's a fucking dipshit. So but then all of a sudden this week he's starting to backtrack. Were you surprised that Ron Johnson seemed to be open to it? Or does it feel like now?

And does it feel like now he's returning to form? What do you think? Well, I'll tell you, I was surprised when he said he was open to it. It just didn't. It very out of character. And over the last couple of days, you see now Ron Johnson choosing to take a position that we always expectedrich environment. There's quite a few ways you can go at him. What do you think is the most succinct and effective case against Ron Johnson? Man, this dude is so out of touch. That's the problem here. Just a couple of months ago, I'm not sure if you all caught it, but there was Oshkosh Defense. They got the contract for the next generation postal vehicles. And Ron Johnson is from Oshkosh. And this company decided that they wanted to send those jobs that should have

been for Wisconsin workers down to South Carolina. I got nothing against South Carolina, but what I'm saying is I'm running to represent Wisconsin. I'm Lieutenant Governor of Wisconsin. We're fighting to keep those jobs here. Ron Johnson's response was, we have enough jobs. I cannot think of a more out-of-touch position to have. We're talking about 1,000 family-sustaining union jobs. This is a person who cannot be more out-of-touch. And it feels like every week there is something. As you mentioned, we had him voting against capping insulin costs. Just last week, there was the threat to Social Security, threats to Medicare. Also voting against benefits for our veterans who were impacted by burn pits. He has left every single community in this state behind.

But again, that is who he is. Our thing, though, with the campaign, as much as there is, you know, against him, he's truly been a poor representative for the people of this state. But we have to lead with our values. We have to lead with our vision because people aren't going to decide at the ballot box based solely on how bad he is. People know we need to know we stand for as Democrats. And that's one thing I feel that we've sort of struggled with in previous election cycles, where people don't necessarily know where we're coming from, what we're up to. And Republicans have taken that time to define us for the American people before we've had a chance to do it. So we're getting out front. We're talking about our plan to rebuild the middle class, to bring back good paying jobs, to bring back opportunity in every corner of the

state of Wisconsin, all across this country. My story is a very Wisconsin story. My granddad moved to Milwaukee after serving in World War II. He got a job as a union steel worker, walked into the factory, walked back out 35 years later. He was able to lay a foundation for the family. My dad followed in his footsteps. But the opportunities for people in my generation to get into the middle class, it feels like those there are fewer and fewer. It feels like they're significantly less entry points to the middle class than there were even back then. And that's the real problem we're experiencing right now. But as Democrats, we have to have a plan to hold corporations accountable that send our jobs overseas and also make sure that the wealthy are paying their fair share. So everybody has a fair shot at the American dream. So let's talk about jobs from Wisconsin across the country.

Can we please put the map up? We have an important map I need to show you. This is a current map of Culver's locations in the United States. All right. Now they've expanded. This is Wisconsin-based Culver's. They have a butter burger. They have cheese curds. It's amazing. It's fantastic. Do you see that there's these two big states, New York and California, some of my favorite places to live exclusively? You're currently lieutenant governor. You've done a great job kind of representing Wisconsin, building Wisconsin. What's happening here? What do we need to do to get this map more blue in more places? You got to get a map that shows the expansion in the last four years since we've been in office. Taking credit for the Culver's expansion.

What do I need to do to put you? I need a Culver in Los Angeles. I can't live like this anymore. Well, I'll tell you, man, we win the Senate race. We're going to start the expansion. And I'll tell you, for all the other fast food restaurants out there, this is our great replacement theory right here. There'll be Culver's on every corner. That's right. That's right. Don't hear Ron Johnson talking about that. He never talks about that. That's for sure. He's afraid of that.

All right. I'm here to derail the interview. No, which was successful. I added myself to this interview. I added myself for this purpose. um all right so we well now that i'm here to derail the interview no i want you to know that i i added myself to this interview i added myself for this purpose i'm thinking of the segue back into i don't even have speaking speaking of the economy just say speaking of the economy anyway so clearly uh you said you made the case against ron johnson uh republicans have already previewed the case they intend to make against you which is that they're going to say you're too progressive on issues like immigration and policing you're too close to progressives like

Bernie and AOC and the squad. I know you've said this isn't about labels, but would you characterize your views as progressive? Well, I'll tell you, Republicans said the same thing about Tammy Ball when she ran for U.S. Senate two years ago, and she's been proving them wrong ever since. And I've seen some very, And she's been proving them wrong ever since. And I've seen some very some self-defined moderate candidates get the same attacks lobbed at them. And the way we overcome this is by generating real enthusiasm across the state. And people are concerned about that. People want to know who has your back. Right. Like I tell you, Wisconsin goes in so many different directions. We have Tammy Paul and Ron Johnson in the U.S. in so many different directions.

We have Tammy Paul and Ron Johnson in the U.S. You know, we went for Obama twice, voted for Donald Trump. We went from Scott Walker to Tony Evers. The fact is people are going to show up for the person they know is going to show up for them. And in Wisconsin, it's not about, you know, the urban verse rule. It's not always left or right. It's about the people who have consistently been at the top and everybody else who's been left behind at the bottom and who is going to actually show up for these populations that continue to be ignored.

There was a real powerful moment during one of the primary debates where you shared your mother's abortion story. What prompted you to share that? And how central of an issue do you think abortion should be in this campaign? How central do you intend to make it? Yeah, I'll be very honest. So it first came up, we've been hosting a series of roundtable discussions about many different issues during this campaign. And we did have an abortion roundtable. And in that discussion, I shared my mother's story.

There was a reporter there who was, you know, very, you know, he was very professional about it. He said that he would not write about it unless I got my mother's approval. And, you know, I'd known about it, you know, for a while. And I had to talk with her and she was more than willing to share her story. She actually, she's featured in one of our most well-received commercials, actually. She said that she shares her story so others can know that they are not alone. And I think that having her strength, her courage has helped me throughout this campaign. And being able to share that on the stage was, you know, certainly a very intimate moment. But I do want people to know

how serious this issue is, how close it is to each and every single one of us. And I do think that this is the big issue in this election cycle now, because we're talking about a fundamental right, a constitutional right, 50 years of precedent being overturned. When you take away people's rights to bodily autonomy, when you take away people's rights to bodily autonomy, when you take away people's rights to make their own decisions, people show up in kind. And we saw that in Kansas. You've been serving as lieutenant governor in a state where one of the most gerrymandered legislatures in the country has tried to strip Democrats of all power, including the governor. You look at Wisconsin and people say that that could be the future for the rest of

the United States if we go down that anti-democratic path. How does Wisconsin get out of this mess if Republicans have such a lock on the legislature? I'm sure you've thought a lot about this in your time as lieutenant governor. I'll tell you, it's a sample of what's to come. I don't think we would have seen a President Donald Trump if it were not for Governor Scott Walker here in the state of Wisconsin, a person who made his whole political career on the backs of war, on division, keeping people separate, making working people the enemy of one another. And I'll tell you, people ask all the time, if you're ready for the chaos of the U.S. Senate or the chaos of Congress, have y'all seen the state legislature in Wisconsin? But the way out of that is through Congress, through the U.S. Senate. You know, we can pass H.R. 1. We can pass significant democracy reforms that include outlaw and

banning of partisan gerrymanderingmander will be in a much better place as a country. I mean, this is not who we are, the sort of representation we've been getting. I can tell you, I want to say in 2020, Assembly Democrats won over 50 percent of the popular vote and came away with 38 percent of the seats. That's what Jerry Penner has done to this state. And it has led to some very extreme legislation coming out of the assembly and the Senate. Fortunately, we do have the veto pen that stopped much of that from becoming law. But again, this is not what the people of Wisconsin have called for. People of Wisconsin support universal background checks for firearm purchases, band of assault weapons. People in Wisconsin support universal background checks for firearm purchases,

band of assault weapons. People support marijuana legalization. People support a higher minimum wage. We still have a $7.25 minimum wage in Wisconsin. You know, all these issues that an overwhelming majority of the people here support, but do not even get a public hearing because of gerrymandering. And anytime people ask, you know, what's holding up progress, it is quite simply the legislature and also the state Supreme Court that acts as a partisan extension of the Supreme Court. And at the same time, we have Ron Johnson in the U.S. Senate that is doing the same exact thing that they're doing in the state capitol. And he wants to see a partisan takeover of our elections. He wants things to be worse. They are not bad enough for Ron Johnson. Things are not bad enough for him.

But it sounds like the answer then is things have to get bad enough that people vote in enough numbers to overcome the gerrymander. Well, that's the thing. The thing is, if we get a majority, if we get a couple extra seats, get rid of the filibuster, get to work, see significant democracy reforms, including banning a couple extra seats, get rid of the filibuster, get to work, see significant democracy reforms, including banning a partisan gerrymandering through Congress, then our maps will change. So you'd be the second youngest United States senator after that haircut from Georgia. And you would, just just joking with us.

We love us. We love us. You would double the number of senators younger than me and to a lesser extent, John. Fuck. Care to comment? I would also I would also plunge the network, the media network, like it would descend like so far. It was cut in half. So like, you know, we talk a lot about the dangers of living in a gerontocracy. Why does it matter to have sort of a new generation in the Senate? What's the difference between having a young

representative, a new representative and someone who's been in the Senate for a very long time? It's all about perspective. You know, any governing body needs an accurate perspective of the people that are being represented. Now, the fact is, our generation is, you know, the first is going to have fewer opportunities than the one before us. And if we aren't in seats of power, if we aren't in positions of power, none of that changes. I'm not saying we need a whole millennial Gen Z takeover. What I am saying is that we do need at least some voices to say, well, no,

I don't think that's a good idea. We need people who understand things like social media, understand what it's like to have gone through multiple economic crises, having lived through a pandemic, having all these things thrown at us that has made life substantially more difficult without leadership in place to help us truly see it through. And then on top of it all, a working class perspective, that is missing as well. We see the Senate typically stall when it comes to bold legislation that comes out of the House, and it's because that working class perspective isn't there. Things like the child tax credit, expanding the earned income tax credit, significant,

substantial, immediate action on the climate crisis, you name it. It's because people haven't had to experience life as the majority of people do. And our generation is, quite frankly, had it tougher than most. Thank you for including me in your generation. We're the same generation. No, I agree. No, you and I are contemporaries completely. Love it. We'll be 40 in just a few weeks. Yeah, but it's like a young 40. It's an LA 40. It's an LA 40. Honestly,

West Coast 40 is a Midwest 47. Let's face it. Wow. Take it. Deal with it. It's from the cheese. It's because of all the cheese. It was tough. Mandela Barnes, thank you for joining whatever this was. Thank you for being here.

It's good to see you. Congrats in advance on Tuesday, and good luck in the months to come. And wait, one more. What can people do right now listening to help your campaign? What's the best thing people across the country can do? Absolutely. You can go to the website, MandelaBarnes.com. Follow us on social media as well.

All right. And the other Mandela is the Twitter and Instagram handle. Perfect. Yep. All right. Take care. Thank you so much. A great follow, you know.

All right. yeah perfect yep all right take care thank you so much a great follow you know all right thank you to Mandela Barnes for joining us today and we'll be in Nashville Friday Friday night for a show so that's the next Pod Save America

you'll hear that's right hopefully we'll know more about this whole FBI thing yeah hopefully we'll have something to talk about. Maybe bring a little more. We'll talk to you then. More information. Context. Knowledge. Bye everyone.

Maybe. Maybe we'll bring Popat. Let's get Popat on the blower. Popat, where you at? Can we get... Just cut it. This is the end of the show. Can I have a real name? Yes. Please. Mr. Popat's my father. Mr.

Popat. I don't know what's going on. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producers are Olivia Martinez and Haley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis

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