Pod Save America - “Gang of Foxes.”

Episode Date: April 6, 2018

Mueller’s writing a summer blockbuster, Fox and Friends is making immigration policy, and Scott Pruitt is late for dinner. Then the Rev. Demetrius Jifunza of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition joins Jon, Jon, Tommy, and Dan on stage in Clearwater, Florida to talk about voting rights and second chances.

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I think Scott Pruitt may be corrupt. I don't know. Crooked. Hello, Clearwater! Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We have a great show for you tonight.

Later we'll be talking to the founder of the Sarasota chapter of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, Demetrius Difonza. But first we have some news. Because you guys have come all this way, we're going to start with the fun stuff tonight. But first we have some news. Because you guys have come all this way, we're going to start with the fun stuff tonight. We're going to do wild speculation about what our favorite special counsel is up to. Start with the least speculative news and we'll work our way up. Some time ago, Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign manager who's been charged with 32

counts of fraud and conspiracy against the United States, just traffic violation type stuff, he tried to get his indictment thrown out of court. And his argument was that Mueller lacked the authority to investigate the crimes he was charged with. In response, Mueller must have laughed very hard. And then he dropped a memo written by Trump-appointed Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein that said Mueller has the specific authority to investigate Manafort, including, quote, allegations that he committed crimes by colluding with Russian government officials with respect

to their efforts to interfere with the 2016 election. That is quite an actually from Bob Mueller. Dan, how significant is this? I would, to quote the former Vice President Joe Biden, this is a big fucking deal. Yeah. And here's why it is, because much of the discussion around Manafort has been,

even from sort of the Trump-adjacent conservative world, is, yeah, Manafort might be a crook, but what he is, the crimes he committed are about things that happened long before Trump. It was garden variety money laundering. But now that Mueller has implicated, said that Manafort's being investigated for working with the Russians for collusion, help explains why, potentially, this is where we get into irresponsible speculation, that a man with longtime relationships with pro-Putin Russian oligarchs

who had been out of politics for 30 years and was deeply in debt ended up managing Donald Trump's campaign. And so for the first time, it becomes harder for the right to dismiss the Manafort investigation as other crimes. Now, Mueller hasn't proven anything, but he's zeroing in on Manafort as being part of what may be collusion. I also think this helps Mueller keep his job, right?

Because this is not Mueller in a memo saying, I have the authority to investigate collusion. in a memo saying, I have the authority to investigate collusion. This is Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general, who would have to be the one to fire Mueller should Trump want to fire Mueller, basically saying this investigation is legitimate and it is an investigation into this man's potential collusion with the Russian government. Unless Trump fires Rod Rosenstein, too. Which, which of course. Yeah. So there were a few other stories in the Daily Beast and the New York Times about Mueller interviewing Russian oligarchs as they flew into the United States. He just stops them at Dulles Airport and asks them a few questions. That must have been very fun for them. There were stories about how George Nader, who's a UAE advisor and now a cooperating witness for Mueller, how he also has ties to Russian oligarchs and to Putin. Tommy, what is Mueller

looking for here? What do you think? What's all the Russian oligarch stuff about? We don't know. I mean, I do think that's the key with all of this is what we're learning about what Bob Mueller is doing is from people that were interviewed and asked questions, which leads to speculation and second and third hand information that gets us to where we are today. It's very useful. We're learning a lot over time. And he's also indicting a whole hell of a lot of people. But we ultimately don't know what he's looking for. That said, if I were a betting man, I would imagine that he was looking into money laundering or financial ties between Trump and his campaign or campaign advisor and these billionaire oligarchs who are people who

have who are allowed to be billionaires in Russia because Vladimir Putin lets them be billionaires. I think that's an important point. Russian oligarchs don't just you're not weren't just heroes of capitalism. Yeah you didn't create you didn't create a new algorithm that made googling faster right. You were handed an industry by Vladimir Putin during a process and he said to you, you're giving me half of what you make, but I'm going to allow you to live,

basically. Lovett, what do you think? So, so, two quick points. One, reminder about how low our standards are. Dan's point is absolutely correct. The argument in defense of Trump is these many criminals that are surrounding him,

many of whom have pled guilty or are currently facing, you know... Five guilty, please. Dozens of charges. Five. Dozens of charges that Five. Dozens of charges that, obviously, this is ridiculous. These were criminals, but they had done their crimes before and after meeting Trump, not during the time they were specifically working for Trump,

when they were at the highest point in American politics. Point number one. Point number two, it's a little bit, you know, the Mueller speculation, when the oligarchs landing on the tarmac and then just getting met by Robert Mueller, which is awesome because they're not, because it's not like, I didn't text him, did you text him? Oh, he knows where I am he's been thinking about me a lot lately i didn't know that i didn't know i wasn't like oh you were talking to me when you said excuse me sir me oh shit it's me he's looking for me what is this square jawed man seeking i've never seen a jaw so square. Is this my car? Is this curbside?

Are you... I didn't know they let lift onto the tarmac. This Uber has siren. Second point. It's a little bit like, again, to the Mueller on the tarmac, it's a little bit like, again, to the Mueller on the tarmac, it's a little bit like what we see through the witnesses and the people that are talking about what Mueller said to somebody, said to somebody, or what Trump's lawyers are leaking to the Washington Post,

it's a little bit like we're watching Mueller recaps of the episode that was on Sunday night, but then when we see the oligarch thing, we realize that, like, oh, he's already shot the rest of the season. Like, that's definitely a green screen dragon. And that hasn't happened yet.

Spoiler. What's happening in that scene? I was careful to avoid spoilers due to previous incidents. What else, John? Yeah, well, some of it has happened in the past. The last bit of news comes from yesterday's Washington Post, which says that Mueller's team has reportedly told Trump's lawyers that Trump is a subject but not yet a target of their investigation.

Dan, what does this mean? No idea. Well, it could mean several things, right? It could mean that trump is not yet a target right which means a subject generally as i understand it from the attorneys who appear on cable news regularly is that a subject is someone who is who is in the investigation that is being looked at their conduct is being investigated but they have not yet found sufficient evidence to believe that they are likely to be indicted. Right? So

the fact that he's a subject does not mean that he will not be a target at some point. Right. You need a subject and a target and a witness. Yes. You want to be a witness. Yes, yes. I mean, you don't want to be any of these things. You actually want to not be on any of these things. Yeah, it's a binary choice. You're in this fucking thing or you're not.

I was in two FBI investigations of leaks from the White House, and I thank God every day that I was only a witness because it was scary as fuck. Were you met on the tarmac? No, I was not on the tarmac. I was met in the Situation Room in a scary FBI building. Okay, well, that's... Dan, sorry.

Well, I think there's another potential answer here, which is, and this is a larger legal question, which is there is a real debate about whether a sitting president could be indicted. If it is Mueller's belief that you cannot... Who says his presidency wasn't history-making? First for everything. Who are going to break that lowest? First black president, first be indicted, then he will never be a target of the investigation. He will be a subject up until the point when Mueller were to file a report,

presumably to Congress, for Congress to adjudicate whatever crimes they will do. Now, were that to happen, Paul Ryan would be unaware of this until the last possible moment. What? I haven't been paying attention to news. That's a hilarious stretch. Obviously, I've heard that the president was indicted,

but right now I'm focused on privatizing Medicare. And these kinds of White House stories aren't on my radar screen right now. You know, some legal experts have speculated that Trump could end up being named as an unindicted co-conspirator if he was involved in this. That's the closest he could get if they didn't want to indict a sitting president, which is not a great title.

No. Unindicted co-conspirator. I don't think you'd put that on your resume. You wouldn't use that in a real act ad. It's actually, things in your life have to get so bad when that's a relief. But there's also, I mean, like, there was this whole, it was completely partisan as everything is about Trump that's reported these days, but some people are like, oh, what a relief, you know, he's not a target of this investigation, but there's a whole bunch of ways to interpret this. Like, it could be good news, but it

also could be that Mueller doesn't want to tell him that he's a target investigation because he knows he could be fired or that could somehow jeopardize the investigation. There's also a conversation that there's an investigation into collusion, but also a separate investigation into obstruction of justice. So that doesn't make you feel a lot better. And they want to get him to sit down for a conversation with Bob Mueller and his team, which will be unlikely to end well for Mr conversation with Bob Mueller and his team, which will unlikely to end well for Mr. Trump.

So there's a lot of ways this can go. Well, so that leads to the definite bad news in this story, which is Mueller is working on two reports, reportedly. One report is on the Russia stuff, as we call it. And the other report is a report on whether Trump obstructed justice which is slated to be released this summer now originally originally it was supposed to be a love story yeah and it was and it was planned for a December release but then when Cameron got in there and he saw the ship sinking he's like this is

actually this is summer so Robert Costa summer. And they got the rock. So Robert Costa, who wrote the story for the Washington Post, went on TV and said he, her, you know, his reporting told him July or August is when this report is supposedly coming that Mueller is going to finish about whether Trump had corrupt intent when he fired Comey. Of course he did. When he tried to protect Flynn from being fired, of course he did. So will we see these reports? What does he do with these reports?

Well, there are a couple of things about this, which is Robert Costa is a great reporter and he's very well sourced, but Mueller does not leak. So what Costa is reporting on is what reportedly Mueller's attorneys potentially, Mueller's staff potentially told Trump's attorneys in the negotiations around Trump's potential interview. One of whom just quit. Yes. One of Trump's attorneys, yes. And so it's not-

So big caveat on this whole story. Yeah, big caveat there is that- Because Trump's lawyers aren't known for telling the truth necessarily. Yeah, so you have people who, you have Mueller's very crack staff who don't leak and don't show their cards, and then you have a of third-tier attorneys who lie a lot. So it's like the truth is somewhere in the middle. And you'll get drunk at outdoor restaurants in Washington and spout off in front of New York Times reporters. Not a great idea.

I will say one thing, though, that if you read a report about a man in San Francisco spontaneously combusting, about a man in San Francisco spontaneously combusting, it will be the day that I wake up, open up the Axios newsletter, and read that Trump being named an unidentified co-conspirator was a win for him. Get ready for it. Oh, that speculation wasn't fun. But if he does do this report,

it would be a report that he then delivers to Congress, to the leaders of certain committees in Congress. But he does have to give it to both the majority and minority on these committees. So Democrats will see this too. And then I believe if he does not want to make it public, those committees can vote to make the report public. Which again, of course, the Republicans wouldn't do that. We hope they would, but probably not. So that would be one more reason for us to

win Congress back if Mueller does issue such a report but I think that's an important that's an important point about this this target subject thing it's speculative and also ultimately a side point because we've talked about this before but this is politics

impeachment is impeachment is politics but no no but so is the outcome of this report. What Mueller is going to lay out, it's going to make an argument. And what happens next depends on how compelling that argument is and how much pressure it puts on people to act on it, whether he's called an unindicted co-conspirator or just a lovable old racist who fell in with the bad crowd. It is interesting that he is preparing to release, or to release to Congress,

if these reports are true, the report about obstruction of justice before the Russia stuff. And one, I was thinking about this, one potential reason for him doing that is if he releases a report that says that the President of the United States intended to obstruct justice in order to prevent this Russia investigation from going forward, it then becomes much harder for Trump to fire Mueller before he releases the second report about Russia.

Or maybe Mueller just has a flair for the dramatic, and the second report is going to blow our fucking minds, right? We don't know. Maybe in this case the sequel will be better. He's like the godfather. I will tell you, I lost fundamental trust in adults, because I didn't understand that people would just lie about things. When Billy Crystal was doing an interview and he said that City Slickers 2 was going

to be better than City Slickers 1. And I remember seeing that and I got so excited because he was like, this is one of those times where the sequel is even better. And I was pumped. I'm so sorry. Sorry, man. And so in a way, it also prepared me for our current politics. Okay.

So we talked about this a little on the last pod, but it appears that the president plans on sending National Guard troops to the U.S.-Mexico border based on an erroneous news report he saw on his favorite television program. Fox and Friends are in a segment saying that a horde of immigrants are intent on sneaking across our border in order to commit crimes and take all of our social welfare benefits. But that was just who Mueller met on the tarmac. Because they had a White House thing to get to.

get to. So this got Trump very angry watching this Fox and Friends. He's been talking about it nonstop ever since. He's been tweeting about it. Today he was giving remarks on tax reform, something near and dear to just Paul Ryan's heart. And he threw the remarks and said, these are boring. And he threw the remarks and said, these are boring. And instead started talking about this caravan of immigrants and said, this journey coming up, women are raped at levels that nobody has ever seen before. This is what he said about this caravan.

It is, it's not even like it's a lie that is based on a shred of truth that was somewhere that he just sort of exaggerated. He just sort of made this shit up. What is the truth about the migration, all the people that are coming here from Central America? I mean, a lot of them are from Honduras. There was a terrible contested election in Honduras,

so a lot of them are fleeing political oppression. A lot of them are fleeing organized crime or violence, and they might be killed. So this is an annual movement of people north. They band together for safety. They're trying to avoid being raped or killed or robbed. It's literally the reverse of what this horrible person that is our president is saying about them.

They're trying to immigrate maybe to Mexico or maybe the United States, but they're doing it the right way. Even some dickhead at Breitbart clarified for the world that when you apply for asylum in the United States, that's legal migration. That's doing it the right way.

That's getting in line. Breitbart. Breitbart had to correct Fox & Friends and Donald Trump. We're through the looking glass, people. Hug the people you love. He's demagogic. This is why I hate him so much. This is why.

He can punch Low Energy Jeb and little Marco and other powerful people. I kind of like that part of it. The Marco thing is compelling, yeah. But it's like when he pounds on the people who have it the worst, it's when he reveals his true character. When he tells transgender people who are kicked around by society all day long

that they can't serve in the military or people that are fleeing for their lives that they're rapists somehow or that they're doing the wrong thing when they're actually trying to do the right thing, he reveals his true character. And it's all because of a Fox and Friends segment that is just

racist. It's purely racist. I just want... I think that's all right, but it's also, I even think it's a bit more nefarious. I think there are plenty of times where he is lashing out because of something he saw on Fox & Friends, but I do believe there's more intention here because he sees this on Fox & Friends

and his bite-sized brain can latch onto this bite-sized fake thing that he knows will be easily consumed by the base he's trying to rile up at a time in which every headline is bad for him, right? The Mueller headlines have not been good. The Scott Pruitt story reflects poorly. Ann Coulter has turned on him. I was going to say, that probably more than the other headlines is what's really spun him up about this, is that his own base, ever since he signed the omnibus spending bill,

which did not build the wall because somehow he thought that was going, that Congress was going to give him the wall, and they did not, his base started revolting. They said he's not going to actually build this wall after all. He's not serious on immigration. So at the same time, he sees this story,

and he decides, this is where I'm going to make good with the base, and I'm going to latch onto this. And it's disgusting. And, like, my rage is directed at Trump, but it's also directed at the fucking assholes at Fox and Fox and Friends for running the story. Like if you,

if you're in a place where a Breitbart immigration reporter is correcting your news program, like you have sunk to such a low. It's also, this is the immigration reporter at a nativist website. It's like, hey Fox, you might have crossed the racist line there. Yeah.

And also like, we've been talking so much about the politics about this, but you guys should read the story in the New York Times about these people who've made this journey. It's heartbreaking. I mean, the group includes, there's about a thousand people. The group includes 300 kids, 400 women. They're doing this together, and like you said,

they're coming together so that they don't get attacked on the way there themselves, so they can band together for this. They're learning the immigration laws in Mexico and the United States so they can apply for asylum the right way. They're fleeing their homelands in the first place because there was gang violence there. These people are literally doing everything right. They're very courageous. And now they are at the center of this ugly...

It's just gross what Donald Trump is doing. Yeah. It's beside the point. But, Fox & Friends, it wasn't a good show before Trump became president. But, like, I want you to imagine in your life that you have a job, and it turns out, all of a sudden, every day, the president shows up

and just listens to you for an hour. Every single day. It would be an incredible responsibility. You'd take it really seriously. You'd want to say things that were true and that mattered and would help people. You wouldn't want to incite his worst instincts. And these people don't give a fucking shit.

They don't care at all. They are using it for the most despicable purposes. The guys on Fox & Friends don't give a shit about the caravan. They don't care about the caravan. The thing is, they are all facing a problem, both Fox and Friends and Trump, and Republican-based strategists. So the Daily Beast ran a story

that there was a spike in border crossings in March, but the Trump administration recently closed down immigration detention centers on the border because the crossings had been down so sharply. So they're not getting as many people crossing over the border illegally. And this is a problem because they clearly want to run on immigration in 2018. I mean, if there's anything more symbolic of where the Republican base is right now, it's Donald Trump throwing his tax reform remarks over his head because they're boring,

which is what Paul Ryan wants to run on, and saying, I want to talk about this random story about these people coming in through Mexico. That's what they want to talk about in 2018, right? Everyone has a home base, and Trump's home base is to scare white people about non-white people. He always plays the old hits, and that's what it is. And you're exactly right about Fox. Because it wasn't like Fox did this on purpose. They wandered this. They found a point of outrage. And it wasn't just Fox and Friends. All fucking day long, whether it was the news people or Tucker Carlson or whoever else, they gin this up because they're in this symbiotic relationship with Trump of terribleness

where they say something, Trump applauds them for it. So now they report on Trump saying it again. So maybe if they talk about it more, he'll tweet about them. And it is really one of the most dangerous and damaging things to our country is what Fox is doing to our president. I just want to tell a quick story about Fox and Friends. In like 2005 or 2006,

they reported that when Barack Obama was six years old, living in Indonesia, he attended a madrasa. January 16th, 2007. Okay. So, basically... That's pretty good. Basically, Fox & Friends reported

that Barack Obama went to a school for Islamic extremists. And Steve Doocy, there's this incredible clip if you look on YouTube. He goes, this is huge! This fucking moron says this. And so I'm the Senate press secretary at the time. And I call and I yell like I've never yelled before. Like I left my body. I was just screeching at these people. And I got run up to like a pretty high level guy

named Michael Clemente at Fox News. And he told me, calm down. Fox and Friends is not a news show. It's an entertainment show. And this is the show that our president looks to to get his news, not the PDB, not his policy advisors, not anything else, a show that their own network calls an entertainment show. And I will say, just as a coda to that story, if you look on YouTube today at that clip, about 90% of the views of that Doocy clip are me, Tommy, and Robert Gibbs. We have watched that so many times. I made up my ringtone. And he didn't go...

I'm just sorry, just to, again, quote on the coda, it was not a madrasa. No, he failed out. So one last question on this. So this is their plan for 2018. They want to find these stories about immigrants to scare people with,

whether it's a murder that was committed somewhere or a crime or ms-13 or hordes coming over the border how do Democrats respond to this because you could see one school of thought where people say we shouldn't respond to it we shouldn't talk about this we got a pivot and talk about health care and taxes and the economy which of course is our message but then you also see another line of thought which is like we actually have to stand up for this and say that it's wrong. So how do Democrats balance sort of the need to be on,

you know, the economic tax cut healthcare message, but also address these things? I think you have to say it's wrong and then explain why they're doing this. Yeah. Because they don't want you to know about the corruption that's happening all throughout Washington, to what Scott Pruitt's doing,

to how Paul Ryan's wealthiest donors got a huge tax cut and then turned around and gave him a half a million dollar check. So we have to call it out. I was wrong. I do not want to be part of a party that turns a blind eye to this because it is horrendous, racist bullshit and we have to call it out and our voters will be pissed if we don't yeah but don't hide but don't hide but also remember that we don't play into their game right is so call it out and then explain why they're doing this disgusting stuff because they don't they can't talk about these other they don't want these other issues then say what those issues are yeah and i think arm people with the facts of like what the real story is here too because until i was preparing for this podcast i didn't even know you know because all you see is the coverage of the the real story is here, too. Because until I was preparing for this podcast, I didn't even know.

Because all you see is the coverage of the fight, and you don't actually see the facts of what's happening. Credits to BuzzFeed for setting a reporter down with this character, people interviewing them and telling us who was there. Yeah, they did a great job. Dan, you mentioned Scott Pruitt. We call that a segue, John.

It seems as if our EPA administrator is in a bit of trouble. Here are some things that he did. Couldn't see the forest for the trees, John. Don't encourage that. He could do better. He got a special discount on a D.C. condo from a lobbyist who was trying to get approval for a pipeline from the agency that Pruitt runs. You don't have to be an expert to know that that's wrong.

He spent more than $100,000 on first class flights because when he flew in coach, a passenger complained to him about his policies. That passenger, Al Gore. He used a loophole in the Clean Water Act to give his favorite political staffers huge raises even after the White House said he couldn't. I just want to pause and say, I just learned from you that it was from a loophole in the Clean Water Act. Yeah, that's it.

He found that. He was very resourceful. He paid $43,000 for a soundproof phone booth. I don't even understand that. Who uses the phone? I guess you don't care about noise pollution. He was very resourceful. He paid $43,000 for a soundproof phone booth. What? I don't even understand that. Who uses the phone? I guess you don't care about noise pollution. Oh, my God. Like a David Axelrod over here.

If what you're saying is I'm a hilarious, avuncular fellow, fine. If what you're saying is I'm a hilarious, avuncular fellow, fine. He asked them to flip on the sirens in his car so that he could get to a mediocre French restaurant in D.C. on time. I'm saying it's mediocre. We've had to wait at that restaurant for way too long. And then this broke a couple hours ago. Five senior staffers, including his chief of staff and some former Trump campaign officials,

were reassigned or demoted within the EPA when they complained to the White House about Pruitt's conduct and his spending. John Kelly warned Pruitt that the scandals needed to stop. The White House said they wouldn't defend it. One of Pruitt's top deputies resigned today. Why is he still there, guys? What is going on? Zion today. Why is he still there, guys? What is going on? I think he's still there because he was one of the people who came in because he had a close relationship with the Koch brothers, and huge fossil fuel interests installed him in this job to slash regulations that helped them

make a whole lot more money. So there's a lot of big money conservative interests who want to get his back and you and you're seeing them whispering into the ear of people like ted cruz and like hiring pr firms to blast out clips or reporters about all these conservatives who have his back i think it's all one in the same there's also the reality that if trump fired him tomorrow and named someone else to take his job they would have to go through a whole round of hearings and things, and it would just create more problems. Yeah. Dan, what do you think? Well, Tommy is right.

The Kochs spent more than $3 million on lobbying and advertising campaigns to get Pruitt confirmed. They've embedded him in our government to do their bidding. Sort of a waste of money since they also had Paul Ryan to do that, but that's neither here nor there. Which is why you've seen David Shulkin or Tom Price, the VA and HHS secretaries, go down very quickly for, frankly, less scandalous behavior than Pruitt. Yeah. I mean, Tom Price failed to help repeal the Affordable Care Act.

Scott Pruitt succeeded in polluting the environment. So, like, he's a successful polluter. Yes. Well, yeah, Scott Pruitt is in the category of person that Republicans said, yeah, we don't like Trump, but we got Pruitt. You know, this is exactly the kind of guy we want. We got Gorsuch. Yeah, like we got Gorsuch. Right. It's like the EPA is a place where they want to fight these ideological battles, and he was the perfect person to do it for them. Like the way these things always happen, whether it's Republican or Democrat, is people stand by the person until members of their own party from Congress call and say, this person's

got to go because I'm now feeling pressure that I have to come out and say this person has to go, which is what happened with Price. We have like two or three Republican congressmen who have said that he should go now. Two, I believe, from Florida. Two from Florida, yeah. And no one from leadership, right? And it is for this exact reason that he is doing their business. They are doing the Koch's business. They're all part of the same company here.

And so they're not going to call for Pruitt to go probably ever, frankly. And they're not going to get someone confirmed again. That would take time. And destroying the planet cannot wait for such a thing. But it's like, I kind of get their logic here, because if you're sitting in the White House, you're like, well, you know, these Pruitt headlines are a huge pain in the ass,

but if it wasn't that, we'd be talking about Stormy Daniels for another five days. It's not like they're balancing this against a great rollout. You have to be an entirely immoral person to think that like like you're a nihilist essentially yeah no i just i mean they like what they're getting out of him and there's been a lot of focus on the corruption itself but i want to just talk about

some of the major policy moves that he's made this week he announced that prud announced that they're rolling back the Obama fuel economy standards, which would have required American automakers to reach an average fuel economy of 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. That would have saved 12 billion barrels of oil. Cars are, of course, the biggest source of carbon pollution. That's a big deal. They even, because California has set their own high fuel economy standard, Pruitt also said we're going to sue California so they don't even get to determine their own standard.

In part because California is big enough and other states will follow that it will make Pruitt's efforts to pollute ineffective. Even the car companies were like, whoa, that's way more than what we asked for. Yeah. I mean, and then he's trying to roll back the Clean Power Plant Act,

which allows power plants to pollute as much as they want. He rejected a ban on pesticide linked to nervous system damage in children, postponed a rule mandating that chemical plants warn the public about safety issues. I mean, this is some really bad shit here. Mulvaney at the CFPB and Pruitt at EPA are truly like foxes letting other foxes. It's a more sophisticated operation than one fox. It's a gang of foxes. One fox watches for other chickens and reporters while the corporate foxes go in and rip birds' heads off. I mean, we do gloss, we sort of gloss over, like we're very focused on using the sirens to get to the mediocre overrated French restaurant.

But, and that is bad, and we should put it, but we do sort of gloss over the fucking insanity of the fact that one of our parties not only doesn't believe in climate change, but is actively trying to make it worse. Hasten it. I mean, it's so fucking crazy. And here's the thing. Every one of these fuckers knows climate change is real. They're not all idiots who didn't take science, but they are addicted to oil money and coke brothers money and they call the shots and so we live in a world where we're just going to try to end the planet sooner if republicans

are in charge and we've now accepted that within like the confines of dumbed down political discourse as well there are two sides to this issue we know democrats are right but well republicans believe in this so we're just going to make the planet worse. And it's so, it's just so fucking crazy. And they're not just outliers. They are global outliers. The Republican leadership in Washington, Scott Pruitt, they are part of a global outlier.

No other party in the world, even the National Front Party in France, the right-wing Marie Le Pen party, they believe in climate change. But Charles Alassane joined the Paris deal. Kim Jong-un, part of the Paris deal. You were to the right of Kim Jong-un on this. It's not good, guys.

Which is going to really help Kim Jong-un in the Republican primary. Pods of America is brought to you by Parachute. Has anyone, Tommy, ever tried to steal your parachute towels? No. That would be troubling. Yeah, it's like a couple things have got to go wrong. Like a little shit break-in. You know, I went to the parachute store over the weekend. Nice!

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End of ad. Pod Save America is also brought to you by Honey. You'd never turn down free money, right, Lovett? I wouldn't. Well, if you shop online without the best coupons, you're already paying too much. Fortunately for you, there's a free browser extension called Honey that automatically finds the best coupons on the web,

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honey to your browser today it's free takes seconds to install and will save you tons of money add honey to your browser for free right now at join honey.com slash psa that's join honey.com slash psa thank you someone for finally using the psa code it's so simple now for a game we call OK Stop. Here's how it works. We roll a clip and then when we feel like it, we say OK Stop to talk about it. Obviously we've discussed Scott Pruitt a bit. But Scott Pruitt, he's not afraid to face the media as long as it's Fox News.

However, once in a while, Fox News will surprise you. They'll actually ask a hard question. Yeah. For a second. Once every four years. Yeah. Like sweeps or something.

It's like the eclipse. If Megyn Kelly at the debate, then this. Yeah. Anyway every four years. Yeah. Like sweeps or something. It's like the eclipse. There's a Megyn Kelly at the debate, then this. Yeah. Anyway, it's Ed Henry and Scott Pruitt. Let's watch it. Why did you go around the president and the White House and give pay raises to two staffers? I did not.

My staff did, and I found out about that yesterday, and I changed it. Was somebody being fired for that? That should not have been done. So who did it? There would be some accountability. A career person or a political person? I don't know. You don't know? You don't know it did it it may be there there would be some accountability a career person or a political person i'll have to i don't know i don't know you don't know you don't know who did it okay

how long until we find out he was absolutely lying here like these these staffers we have just gave themselves pay raises is that what they did we have found out since this happened like six hours ago. I'm just loving the rat-a-tat. Yeah. Just very fast, very punchy. You don't see this on Fox. No.

Raises are friends of yours, I believe from Oklahoma, right? They are staffers here in the agency. They're friends of yours? Well, they serve a very important person. And you didn't know that they got these large pay raises? I did not know that they got the pay raises until yesterday. One of your friends from Oklahoma got a pay raise that's the medium income pay raise. They did not get a pay raise.

They did not get a pay raise. They did. No, they did not. They did not. I stopped that yesterday. Okay, stop. I didn't know about the pay raise, but they didn't get it. It's really interesting that Fox decided to dig in on this. They must have gotten

either a signal from headquarters or from the White House itself. I honestly didn't know what you meant by headquarters. I was like, are you being funny and talking about the old, yeah, keep going. There have been huge times, there have been instances where tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars were wasted on something and they were dismissed out of hand. But suddenly they're pissed about 58 grand. It's just fascinating. I feel like, yeah, isn't it like every once in a while, like Hulk Hogan has to lose one fight?

Yeah. One time. That's when I stopped watching. This is part of the Fox scam, which is for the rest of time now, when we and others point out all the absurdity, the bullshit, the propaganda, they'll point back to this and say, remember that time Ed Henry went after Scott Pruitt? See? Fair and balanced.

Fair and balanced. Yeah. This is the exception that doesn't prove the rule. Right. Are you embarrassed that you run as ABC? It should not have happened. And the officials that were involved in that process should not have done what they did. President Trump said he would drain the swamp.

I don't... Is draining the swamp... Okay, so I just want to little note for Scott Pruitt for next prep. When someone just says as a statement, Trump said, drain the swamp, if you respond defensively before the question's been asked, you're not doing a good job. An apartment from the wife of a Washington lobbyist.

I don't think that that's even remotely fair to ask that question. Okay, so why did you then accept $50 a night to rent a condo from the wife of a Washington lobbyist? Well, let's talk about that. That is something that, again, has been reviewed by ethics officials here. They've said that it's market rate. Renting it from the wife of a lobbyist. The comp's done. You can go on Craigslist today.

Okay, stop. I'll make a deal. I'll make a deal. That's another sign that you're not doing well. Yeah, you don't want to mention Craigslist when you're the EPA administrator. Go on Craigslist. Go on Craigslist. Here's what I would say. I'll make a deal with Scott Pruitt. Here's my offer.

We'll move on. However, I'm going to find you a room in D.C. for $50 a night. I'm not going to like it. And you're going to sleep in it. End of deal. And that's the deal. Cool. Fuck it, I'll throw in the wall.

The Secretary is going to go, thanks for the question. The cap for Craigslist today shows rentals for one bedroom of less than a thousand dollars on Capitol Hill. Okay, stop. Again, just another sign you're not doing a good job. When you're going Bob Barker on apartment rates in DC. One dollar. The yodel game. Ed, as you can see on the Plinko board, I clearly landed at $50 a night. I should have picked a different game. Plinko's random. Plinko's great. Plinko's great.

The lobbyist gave him a Toyota Yaris. I like that. I've lived in Washington over 25 years. Have you made mistakes? I think this is something that needs to be corrected. It was a mistake by my team. By your team. So do you take responsibility? I'm fixing it. do you take responsibility? It was a mistake by my team. By your team. So do you take responsibility?

I'm fixing it. I'm fixing it. Do you take responsibility? I'm fixing the problem. Okay, stop. Does it look like they did a face swap with Jeff Sessions and Larry Kudlow? Do you see that? Yeah.

I know it's an audio format, but just letting you know. Next attorney general right there. I mean, this sounds like a conversation between a rabid bunny and a nervous badger. If Donald Trump sees this interview, or if he already saw it, he's not happy. If Pruitt goes, this will be wrong. Not the corruption.

Not all the other shit. It's this. This interview. And you know, it's ironic, too, because if Scott Pruitt had chosen other outlet and knew it was gonna be tough He would have prepped and all he needed was to get him out of this in this world We live in which again is not an ideal place Is something like this is a concerted effort by the left to run me out of town because of all the good shit

I'm doing he could have gotten a sentence out like that Yeah run me out of town because of all the good shit I'm doing. If he could have gotten a sentence out like that, but he didn't. And that's okay, stop! We will be right back with our interview with Demetrius Jifunza. Pod Save America is brought to you by Upside. Let me ask you this, Thomas. How great would it be to have the kind of support astronauts get when they take a business trip?

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It's brought to you by the Cash App, guys. Love it. I thought it was pretty compelling the way you tried to neg our listeners on Monday. I'm going to be clear. I don't give a shit what these people do. You hear me? And I'm talking to you. You're listening to this.

I don't care what you do. Derek. Download the Cash App. Don't download the Cash App. You can lead a listener to water but you can't make them get five dollars just for downloading the thing you know like that classic expression yeah we're switching to the cash app we're not using the other payment apps anymore you put in the code pod save you get five dollars five dollars goes to mom's demand action which is

raising money to fight for common sense gun control across the country a lot of people are switching to the cash app i know there are are other apps. I know maybe your friend group is all using another app right now. Fools. But you're, think about it. You have 15 friends. That's $75. If you guys just switch together

and then decide to buy something, you know, like some discount Easter candy, like what I bought for the office. If I bought for the office, So much Easter candy. I said, I went to the interns and I said, I have bad news. One of you must go to CVS and buy the exact right amount of candy for the office because it's after Easter.

And that amount was no candy. It's Jewish tradition to buy Easter candy at a discount and have it with the cash app, with the cash app. Code is pot safe. Download it. Do it right now. Download it. Do it right now. He is the founder of the Sarasota chapter of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, Demetrius Jufunza. Good, how are you? How are you doing?

Thanks for joining us. Thank you for having me. All right. So you're one of the point people pushing a ballot initiative that, if voters approve this fall, will restore voting rights to more than a million and a half people in Florida. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. They're familiar. People who currently can't vote because they've had felony convictions in the past. You're also among that group of people who can't vote because of the very rules you're

trying to fix. Exactly. Yes, I am. Tell us a little bit about your personal connection to this issue. Okay. My personal connection. First of all, thank you for having me be here. And I got to say this here.

I'm a little nervous. I don't understand how we just got entertained and educated talking about Trump and the issues that's going on. And then you bring this criminalization stuff out here on stage. I don't get that. To be honest with you, I had just turned 18 years old. And a group of friends and I, we went to another county that we didn't live in. An armed robbery was committed of a conveyance. We got away at the time, but then subsequently people started talking, and next thing I know the detectives is at my door. I don't have no Hollywood story to tell you that I come

from a broken home and bullets flew by the bedroom window every night. I don't have that type of story. I come from a two-period home. My mother is actually a police officer who writes the rules and policies for the police department in Virginia in the D.C. area. So I grew up not with a golden spoon in my mouth but a silver spoon. But I always wanted to know what it was like on the other side. So the first time that I actually did something is when I got caught and got in trouble and was sentenced to 47.25 months in a maximum security state prison. Yeah. First time ever being in trouble. I do the time. I come home. I'm doing everything that is required of me to do.

Then there's a technical violation that the funds was not paid in full at the time when it was supposed to be paid. So the violation of probation came along with other miscellaneous stuff. And instead of reinstating probation over and over again, the public defender said, well, what do you want to do? I said, I just want to get this done so I can get on with my life. So I had to go back for another close to two years. I come home this time and I said, I'm done. And I told people that your life is not over. Well, I don't think my life is over just because of bad decisions that I had made. So I didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't even know if it was going to work.

I went back to school. I went to school and obtained my degree as a paralegal to where I'm working right now as a paralegal for the past 14 years. Thank you. I do, I'm a community activist concernist, if that makes any sense. I don't run around pumping a fist and blocking traffic and doing a bunch of marches, but I do get involved in the serious issues that can perhaps change someone's life. So I do a lot of public speaking, and one thing that I found out is that individuals that go through those channels and they come home, the first thing that the family does is throw them a big party and say, go out and get a job. And I found out after talking with many people, that is the worst thing that you can do.

That is the biggest mistake. The first thing that an individual should do is seek some type of mental counseling because of the things that they went through, endured, some of the things they don't want to tell you that happened to them. And as long as mental counseling is in the play, And as long as mental counseling is in the play, that way you can kind of put an end to the recidivism and the restoration of civil rights for those who would not be in vain. So with that said, I went back to school again and I'm currently obtaining my master's degree in clinical mental health.

That's the way I'm trying to work with. And my main focal point will be working with those offenders and the families of those offenders because it's just not the person that's in jail or in prison. It's also the families it affects. And we don't pay attention to how that actually affects the family. I probably rambled a little bit. I mean, but it's a really powerful story. But thatambled a little bit. I mean, but that's a really powerful story, but that's a little bit about me. Among many of many things you're doing, you've also, there's also this ballot initiative on the ballot here in, uh, that John mentioned in, in Florida that if it gets 60% of the vote, we'll restore rights. Can you tell us a little bit about that

initiative and what you're doing to pass it? Exactly. Um, what happened is that I'm also the vice president of the NAACP in Sarasota. And at a state conference, I met a good individual who became a good friend, and now I also consider a good brother, Desmond Meade. Desmond Meade is actually the founder of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and his story is tremendously exceptionally wonderfully it's just the inspiration to know so I definitely encourage you to look at it look up his story but at that conference he and I we had a conversation because I listened to him as to what he was doing he was talking about this initiative he was talking about pushing the. He was talking about pushing the issue to get this on the ballot, because at that time, it wasn't on the ballot yet.

He was still trying to get the petitions signed so he can take that back to Tallahassee. After hearing that, I had a conversation. I said, I tell you what, whatever you need me to do to support you to get this done, I am on board. He said, I need you to go ahead and start a chapter in Sarasota. So what we did is that we went ahead and that we got the petitions, and we went door to door asking registered voters, how do you feel about the restoration of civil rights for former felons? The response was tremendous.

I had no idea that so many people felt that, yes, they should have their right to vote as long as they have completed all their obligations and is no longer on any type of probation at all. The signatures were signed. We needed over 700,000 signatures signed. We got well over that. The ballot... Thank you. The amendment is on the ballot. One thing that I want to say is that even though many

people think this is a political issue, the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition look at this as a moral issue. Reason I say that and why it's so important is because the only way that this got on the ballot, the only way this got this far is that we set aside political beliefs, religious beliefs, race was never an issue, gender situations was never an issue, this is an issue that affected everyone, young and old. If you live in the state of Florida, this affected you. And when we, that vision alone is what got us this far.

So when we talk about the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition and the right to vote, this is a moral issue that everybody is affected, but the only way it can change is if we include everybody in the fight. What is the case that you make to people about why they should support this issue, who may be skeptical at first? Great question. I always, now this is me, I always talk with people and when I'm speaking with them, for some reason they don't look at me as a form of felon.

Yeah, are you just a college professor? Are you this? Are you that? Or, yeah, you're paralegal and everything. And then after I tell them this story about an individual that was arrested in the county he'd never been in before, and he did time, and after we go through the whole dialogue, I look at him in the eye and said, that was me. So it's like they do this, oh.

Wow. Okay. But after I see the nervousness in them, I say, the reason why you really should support this is safety. I would rather have a person live next to me as my neighbor that has went through those channels, feel that he or she can get a fresh start at life by doing the things they want to do. Instead of feeling like my life is over, I can't do nothing, so what else should I do? When a person feels like there is no hope, when a person feels like their life is completely over, they are likely to do anything. So to answer your question,

I tell people, would you want me to be your neighbor if I was still thinking the way I was? Or would you want me to be your neighbor with a college degree, standing on and sitting at the table of other individuals fighting for policy changes, living a productive life and raising a family. Because when you sit comfortably, and this is what I tell them, when you sit comfortably within the confines of your own home, looking out the window, watching Fox and Friends, and saying, someone should do something about that, well, that someone is you. Allow these individuals that have a voice by voting, and it's not just voting. It's other opportunities when this bill is passed in November the very next day, I'm applying for my

notary license I Am notarizing everything Yes. So separate and apart from the initiative on the ballot, there's also a big legal battle right now with the governor and the attorney general about challenging the current system. That means they don't like it. They're familiar with it.

They're familiar with this. They don't like it at all. Under the current rules, which the governor and attorney general are fighting to keep in place, it can take as long as nine years for someone to be able to have their rights restored. Right. What is the impact of the system as is,

and what would you say to the governor and the attorney general about their efforts to keep the system in place? First of all, I would question his moral authority on that because, yeah. Because, yeah. The way it is right now is that you have to wait five years after you have completed your obligation. That does not just mean being released, but any type of probation. You have to wait five years after that. Then after that, you have to wait another seven years before they would even consider you you being able to file so you do the math doing that time you can't even have nothing as a traffic ticket at all and there's no guarantee they're gonna look at your case so when

you do the study you study the statistics eyes to how often they look at the cases that comes on his desk and how many people he either gives a pardon. It's ridiculous. So now you have so many, and I don't have the number in front of me, but you have countless amount of individuals that cannot vote or have a voice in the state that they live in. I question the moral authority of an individual that feels that's okay because when we're talking about voting and changing, how is it that I can go to work, raise a family, and pay taxes, but I don't have a say- governor in his cabinet, I would tell him, don't look at me. Don't even look at the other individual standing next to me that's up here petitioning for our rights to be restored.

I want you to look at your own family that you don't talk to on a regular basis. I want you to talk about the family that you know has been in trouble but either you have done something that was able to get them put to the front of the ballot to where they can have their rights vote or you just don't talk to them at all. Because every family has an individual in it that has made bad choices. Not mistakes, but a bad choice. And that's one thing I want to make correct. I made a bad choice.

I cannot sit here and say that I made a bad mistake. A mistake is if I just tripped and fell on stage and you guys are laughing at me. That's a mistake I made. But a choice knowingly doing something that you know not to be right, whatever reason you did it, when you are able to recognize that you made a bad choice and you make no excuses about it, and you can stand up in front of all of these people and talk about it, why not can I have a voice to continue to talk about it? Demetrius, last question. How can everyone here and everyone listening help with the ballot initiative?

Vote yes to Amendment 4. All right. Vote yes to Amendment 4. I will even go on to say that even if you do not agree that former felons should have their rights to vote, I respect that. I respect that. But I will tell you that you have neighbors. Your children will go to school of family members and parents who may have a felony also. You

will go to jobs, stores of people that have a felony conviction. If you believe that you should have a voice in your community, if you want your community to be as beautiful as you imagine it, then you should allow everyone to have the voice to help you clean it up. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you, Demet. Fantastic. Thank you. Thank you, Demetrius. Thank you.

Would you mind sticking around for a game? All right. Sure. We have a little game. Hey, everybody. Nice job. Before we start the game, April Parsons tweeted while we were off stage,

Okay, either TVTRO8 or AtJohnLovett just went to the bathroom with their mic on. It is officially a mystery. I'm going to give you a chance. Do you think it was Tommy? Vote. You're going to vote. Do you think it was Tommy? Or do you think it was me? So let's play the game. I have to let the laughter die down. It won't make sense because we are definitely

cutting this. Leave it in. Leave it in. Oh, can I not? Fine, fine, fine, fine, fine. Protest works. We'll leave it in. We'll leave it in. Florida is known for many things. Wow. You're laughing at yourselves. White sand beaches, bright red tomatoes, and black people systemically prevented from casting a ballot.

Wow. It's true. I'm sorry. It's something systematic. We were talking about it. In the Sunshine State, one in ten adults cannot vote because of a felony conviction, and for African Americans, it's worse. One in four African Americans in Florida cannot vote. Florida is one of four states that won't allow felons to vote even after they serve their time, which is why today we're going to play America's saddest game show. Say it with me.

going to play America's saddest game show. Say it with me. Why can't they vote? Thank you. Oh, wow. It's interactive. Would anyone out there like to play the game? It's her birthday. It's a lot of people's birthday. It's her birthday! It's a lot of people's birthday. Oh, good, good. Hi, what's your name? I'm Bobby.

Happy birthday, by the way. Hi, Bobby. Where are you from? Bradenton, Florida. Nice. Are you ready to play the game? Of course. Question number one.

And you guys all have your answers. You're ready to go. Question number one. Here in Florida, which of the following crimes is considered a third-degree felony, landing you in jail for up to five years and taking away your voting rights permanently? Is it A, using tax dollars to visit your own private club every weekend where wealthy middle-aged white people dressed in Botox and ill-fitting clothes praise the corporate tax cut while

hurrying the vodka into their systems to squash the dull sad feeling in the gut that never passes anymore. Or was it B, telling kids from Parkland during a CNN town hall that you support raising the age to buy a rifle to 21 while actually pushing legislation that would lower the age to 18 in Washington, D.C. Wonder who would do that. It's Marco Rubio. Was it C? Possessing 20 grams of marijuana. Or was it D?

Taking off your socks while on an airplane. Bobby? I'm going to go with C. It was. It's possessing 20 grams of marijuana. Now, I wanted to know what that looked like. Shut up. Can we go to the next slide?

That is... That is.75 ounces of oregano leaves, which is about 21 grams worth. So the tiny jar of McCormick's oregano leaves, which is about 21 grams worth. So the tiny jar of McCormick's oregano, that is the amount that can cause you to lose your voting rights forever. Very good on an audio podcast.

It's small. It's very small. Question two. Did Bobby get it right? Yeah, he did. Question two. Which of the following did not result in the disenfranchisement of Florida voters? Was it A? Immediately after the Civil War, the Florida Constitution and laws were written with the explicit purpose of disenfranchising African Americans.

At the same time that felons were stripped of voting rights, state legislators introduced black codes to increase punishment for crimes that formerly enslaved people were more likely to be accused of, such as loitering, vagrancy, and stealing cotton. likely to be accused of, such as loitering, vagrancy, and stealing cotton. This felony disenfranchisement, along with the poll taxes, literary tests, and residency requirements, effectively stopped black people from voting altogether. Was it B, in 1985 when a boy from out of town who looked like Kevin Bacon tried to get his whole high school dancing, even though dancing was a crime in this culture? Was it C?

Was it C? Demetrius, thank you so much for being here. That's right. Okay, I'm going to get it right, I promise. Take your time. In 2000, when Florida led by Governor Jed Bush attempted to purge 10 of thousands of people from voter rolls in the guise of removing felons and other ineligible to vote, which led to the improper disenfranchisement of countless Floridians,

especially people of color. Or was it D? In 2011, Governor Rick Scott and the Republican cabinet repealed a measure that allowed for the automatic restoration of voting rights for hundreds of thousands of former felons in Florida. So, Bobby, which one did not disenfranchise people in Florida? I'm going to have to go with B on that one. You're right.

Little trivia. That's actually the plot of Footloose. May not have picked that up. Question three. Some Republicans argue felon disenfranchisement is fine because they can always file for clemency. In Florida, how does a convicted felon get clemency? Is it A?

Promising to only commit crimes if you can afford a lawyer who knows everybody and is like a legend in this town, and your dad can let the prosecutor know through a friend that you're a good kid and you've never learned your lesson, and this will screw up your water polo scholarship, and who wants that? Nobody. Or is it B?

By wearing a Dwayne Wade Miami Heat jersey and blasting Pitbull song Timber out of a boombox on the lawn of a local judge. High risk, could work. Is it C? It seems like they suffer from the influenza thing. See, tagging all other criminals before you get tagged. Could be how it works. Or is it D? Filing paperwork at least five to seven years after your sentence ends, including probation,

then waiting years and years and years and years to get a response. And when you do, you probably won't get it because 50% of applicants get denied before they receive a hearing. I'm going to go with D. D is right, Bobby. Question four. 74% of Americans, including 60% of Republicans, believe people who have been convicted of felonies should be allowed to vote after they complete their sentences.

What are the other 26 so worried about? Is it A? The purge. Is it B? You ever see Gangs of New York? Where Daniel Day-Lewis had the mustache and threw axes at people? I'm pretty sure that's what they're afraid of.

Is it C? More democratic voters. Or is it D? Obviously the correct answer is C. But let's not gloss over how fucked up it is that all these people want to do is vote and participate in democracy after they serve their time.

Let them fucking vote! Bobby, you're stalling. We need an answer. It's C, but also, let them fucking vote. Bobby, you've won the game and the parachute gift card. Thank you for playing. Say it. Come on, Demetrius.

Say it. And thank you, Demetrius, for being here today. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you, guys. You've been wonderful. Everyone go vote. Go register. See you for having me. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you guys. You've been wonderful. Everyone go vote. Go register. See you next time, guys. Don't feed the alligators.

Don't feed the alligators. Thank you.