Pod Save America - “Gaslighting gas prices” (with Elizabeth Warren!)

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

President Biden hits the road to go on offense against rising prices and falling poll numbers, Senator Elizabeth Warren joins to talk about passing the Build Back Better plan, and Elijah Cone offers up the week’s worst punditry in another round of Take Appreciator.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/podsaveamerica. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

The Supreme Court has had a busy summer loosening gun restrictions in states, overturning Roe v. Wade, and severely threatening our Miranda rights. I'm Leah Lippman, and each week on Strict Scrutiny, I'm joined by my co-hosts and fellow law professors, Melissa Murray and Kate Shaw, to break down the latest headlines and the biggest legal questions facing our country. It's more important than ever to understand the repercussions of these Supreme Court decisions and what we can do to fight back in the upcoming midterm elections. Listen to new episodes of Strict Scrutiny every Monday, wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's pod, President Biden hits the road to go on offense against rising prices and falling poll numbers. Senator Elizabeth Warren joins to talk about passing the Build Back Better plan. And Elijah Cohn is here to help us take on the week's worst punditry in another round of Take Appreciator. Excellent. But first, but first, check out this week's episode of Hysteria with Alyssa Mastromonaco

and guest host Julissa Arce, where they discuss Alex Jones' Cuba immigration reform and are joined by Representative Pramila Jayapal. Julissa is filling in for Erin Ryan, who just gave birth to a beautiful baby girl a few weeks ago. Congrats to Erin and Josh. New episodes of Hysteria drop every Thursday. Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's get to the news.

In a line that could have easily been about Congress, Joe Biden said, quote, these suckers are something else, as he screeched away behind the wheel of an electric hummer at the grand opening of GM's Detroit assembly plant on Wednesday. The president then gave a speech where he sold the benefits of his new infrastructure law, talked up positive economic indicators, and touted a new independent analysis that says his Build Back Better plan won't add to the deficit or inflation. Through the leading rating agencies on Wall Street confirmed today, not a liberal think

tank, two Wall Street outfits, that the economic proposals we put forward for the nation, the infrastructure law we just signed, and the Build Back Better plan are being considered this week in Congress will not add to inflationary pressures in the economy. Won't add to inflationary pressures. Hey, there is no one America's working class trusts more than Wall Street. A couple of Wall Street offers.

What a funny applause line. Anyway, so the political backdrop here is that despite really strong job growth that has actually been revised many months later, it was even stronger than we thought. Despite strong job growth and the passage of a bill that will create even more jobs, the infrastructure bill. Biden's approval ratings are in the shitter, driven by concerns about the economy and specifically about rising costs. So a new poll from Navigator, which is a Democratic research firm, shows a 17 point increase since June in the share of voters who say they are, quote, very concerned about the rate of inflation, including a 20 point increase among Democrats. And the top concerns are the price of groceries, then gas and then housing.

Dan, how much control does the president actually have over inflation? A lot less than the president wishes and the public expects. There is very little that the president can do with or without Congress, frankly, to immediately stem inflation. And we know this because this is not a unique problem in the United States. Costs are up all over the world. This is happening. Global problem. It's a global problem. So it's not related to the American Rescue Plan, the Build Back Better bill, which has not even passed yet, or anything like that. There's very little that the president can do. I mean, there are some things on the margin, and the White House is doing those. You can work and use the bully pulpit and the infrastructure of the federal government to try to unclog the ports to get more goods in

faster, which will help with the supply issue. The president just sent a letter to the FTC trying to encourage an investigation into price gouging from oil companies and at gas prices. There are things you can do there on the margin. But the bigger problem, what is causing all of this, is a truly unprecedented thing. It has been decades since we have dealt with inflation on a prolonged basis in this country, really not since the late 70s, early 80s. But what we've never dealt with before is pandemic inflation, where people's economic behaviors have changed. The economy in some places has come back faster than people thought, other places less fast.

And you have people buying, you know, I thought Austin Goolsbee did an amazing job of explaining this in last week's pod. But this is a very, this is, there are several things interacting here. It's pandemic related. It's the infrastructure, the economy related. It is, you know, so happening abroad, like a shortage of coal in China is impacting gas prices here. And so there, like, this is very, very hard because there is a, there are very few things, there's no magic button to push. There's no lever to pull that will immediately solve this problem substantively. Which is always something any White House just loves. Yeah, that's right. Big problem that you have no power to solve, but people expect you to.

Yes. That's always just, that is the wheelhouse. Yes. And the one that is most statistically correlated with your political success in midterms and presidential reelections. Correct. So what do you think about the White House's current approach to addressing people's economic concerns, both from a policy standpoint? You mentioned some of the things they're doing on supply chains, on the price of gas, or a messaging perspective. As I said, on the substantive stuff, I think they are doing all the things they can do in the very limited set of tools they have. And it's worth noting that the biggest, most important thing you can do is get the pandemic behind us. If you get people going out, as Austin said, buying services instead of just goods, it will relieve the pressure on products, which will lower their costs. It will solve some of the supply chain issues. And so ultimately, everything, as it has been true since the day President Biden was inaugurated,

is the best thing he can do for the economy, for the country, politically, for the Democratic Party, for the world, is get the pandemic under control. And they are doing all they can. I was going to say, and on that note, they have instituted vaccine requirements everywhere they can. Some of them are in court now. Those vaccine requirements are working by all accounts. All, you know, companies, cities, places where they institute these vaccine requirements. You know, you see headlines about a couple of people here and they're refusing. But as a percentage of a workforce or a city or wherever the vaccine requirement is, it's extremely high. These vaccine requirements are working. They have finally rolled out vaccines for children ages

five to 11. So that process has started as well, which is really good news. And then I think the one thing that's been tricky is the booster campaign. And I think the Biden administration, the what this is, I get really annoyed by this because the Biden administration or the White House. And when I say the White House, I actually also mean Dr. Fauci, the nation's top health advisor and other scientists around the White House all wanted to roll out boosters for everyone. And a minority but vocal minority of public health experts disagreed. And the journalists sided with the public health experts and there were all these headlines about oh the biden administration is not listening to silence because they politically want all boosters well where are we now we're in a place where the fda is about to approve boosters for everybody except now it's right before thanksgiving when

a bunch of people are traveling so makes me mad me mad, Dan. Makes me mad. And it's just to say, I'm sure everyone who's listening to this has already gotten your booster, but get your booster. It is open. Whoever you are, get your booster. Because the qualifications now are so broad that just about anyone can get them anyway.

And the FDA is about to approve them for everyone anyway. Go get your booster. You do not want to break through infections. Don't listen to the fucking public health nerds that have been telling you oh like if you like if you give up your booster suddenly that booster is going to go to someone in a developing country that's not true that's not true we have boosters that we've already purchased and we have boosters that have already gone around the world there is no difference between them oh that was that was just one rant. But look, I mean, this is important not just to people's health, which is the most important thing, but like you said, this is

important to getting the entire economy back on track by making sure that, first of all, all the unvaccinated people are vaccinated, and then everyone who got their first two doses is fully protected from COVID, which does require a booster at this point. Because unfortunately, rates are, infection rates, cases are going up again, as is to be expected in the winter. Yeah. With all the places that didn't get hit in the first wave that hit the South so badly, now you're seeing it in the Midwest and the Northeast. And that's what people had feared. And unfortunately, there's a lot of unvaccinated people in, especially in a lot of some of those Midwestern states. And that's very dangerous. One thing that the, so from a lot of unvaccinated people in especially in a lot of some of those Midwestern states. And that's very dangerous.

One thing that the so so from a message perspective. So we talked about substantively beat the virus supply chain gas message wise. How do you think the White House approach is going? Well, I think just the important caveat in this discussion is the message matters on the margins compared to the substance. Right. That's true. discussion is, the message matters on the margins compared to the substance, right? That's true. Our old friend David Axelrod once was quoted in the New York Times after we, it was either right before or right after we got shellacked in the 2010 midterms. And it was a lot of experts, people who, frankly, if it was a 2021, probably would have had

podcasts, but offering real advice about the failures of the Obama economic message. And Axelrod said, understanding that obviously we can and should do better, but you can't spin 10% unemployment, right? You can't spin $5 gas prices. You can't spin increases in milk, eggs, the things that people need. And so, yes, you can do better messaging always, but substance is 100 times more important. In terms of message, there has been a real shift in the White House, and I'd say the last couple of weeks, sort of in anticipation of the inflation numbers that came out. I think that was last week. And then certainly since then, which is being much more aggressive

about talking about the things the president is trying to do to address people's concerns, right? There's the stuff at the ports. There is talking about the investments in the bipartisan infrastructure deal that he signed on Monday that will deal with inflation, framing the elements of his jobs and climate plan as specific ways that will help inflation. So now there's sort of a shift to recognize that inflation is here. People are concerned about it, could be here for a while. And so we now have to talk about the economy and our economic plans as a way to address those concerns, as opposed to sort of kind of dismissing them. It's not necessarily the White House, but a lot of Democrats have done for a while

not thinking it was going to pass us by before too long. Well, let's talk about that. I mean, how do you think Democrats broadly should be talking about the economy right now? Is there any helpful data that you saw in that Navigator poll or other research? Well, I think the first and most important thing is accept the reality that people care

about inflation, and they should. We say inflation, and you hear a lot of people on Twitter being like, no one knows what inflation is. Inflation is a catch-all for the fact that your dollars go less far than they used to because the cost of the things you need go up. And that is- You can say, yeah, rising prices, rising costs, whatever you want to say. That's fine.

And there's been this sort of this strain of thought, particularly on Twitter from Democrats and progressives, arguing that the media is hyping inflation and everyone's mad about a CNN story about turkey shortages. And Wolf Blitzer has been going to a absurdly highly priced gas station in D.C. and taking a picture of it, tweeting it out and people are yelling about it. And I get that, but let's try for us. I don't. Well, well, I want to try.

I have, you know, I know, I know, I know. You're, you're, you're very fired up.

Despite the fact that pretty sure Jack started teething last night around 2 AM. I am bringing a generous spirit to this podcast okay charlie now suddenly after being a wonderful sleeper just wakes up at one in the morning now and just cries just for no good reason ah it's there whenever that happens it's like a 16 month sleep regression or 18 month sleep regression whatever you google sleep regression however many months something comes up whatever age your child is if you google that age and sleeping you'll just get that month that month oh three three and a half sleep regression

oh that's a thing yeah right yeah very the internet is very helpful for parenting anywho well let's try to keep two independent but related thoughts in our head at the same time yes the media most of the media has done a terrible job of covering this issue right there's no context there's no explanation many issues, like I would say all the issues. Oh, the media is over-exaggerating something so that it looks bad for a party in power? Wow, what a shocker. Yeah, and look, to be fair, this is very complicated.

And there's a great story in the Washington Post that sort of really breaks down all the challenges and possible solutions and the context. Most of what you get is gas prices, egg prices, turkeys, you can't get them and panic. And it's all done through this political framework about is inflation going to doom Biden? It's all terrible. But that doesn't mean that people aren't really feeling it, right? The sorts of things.

And I think the part of this that that we need to pay politically more attention to is gas prices. We keep just throwing out the term inflation. And certainly there are things whose prices have gone up at the grocery store, like eggs and milk, that people, and I know there's a very large milk discourse, which Tommy is very well informed of, that I have missed entirely. There is, right? I hear it, hear yes everyone's very mad at that everyone's very mad at that family yes for drinking there's that 12 person family who is clearly struggling with high prices but they did not have the exact price of milk correct and so fuck them i guess yeah they're not they're not running for fucking president george hw bush they should have been

thankful for the child tax credit but they weren't so. So get out of here. Get out of here. I guess that's what our reaction to people struggling is now is the Democratic Party. But the thing about gas prices, right? And this is why the inflation conversation is so hard is no one covering politics or really working actively in politics was around the last time inflation was a major political issue, right? We got a bunch of former Carter aides up here trying to figure it out. You got someone standing outside doing a live shot in front of a gas line in 1977. Honestly, probably it was at the gas station that Wolf Blitzer took a picture of.

Actually, I take it back. Wolf Blitzer, other than Wolf Blitzer. You're right. Wolf Blitzer has been taking that picture for 30 years. He takes that picture. He comes back, returns to the cryogenic chamber in the situation room, gets out at four every day and does his program. That's his deal. That's how you get to look as good as Wolf Blitzer while being whatever age Wolf Blitzer is.

That's how it works. This is why they have the hologram ready for him to last for decades. A lot of people don't even get that reference. That's an old reference now. Anywho. Okay. Gas prices. But you can really – this shouldn't be surprising when you think about gas prices. You just isolate that for a second, which is if you were to plot increases in gas prices and decreases in presidential approval heading into our reelection campaign. We were in a meeting between the campaign staff and the White House and the president to do a sort of briefing.

And we're going through the polls, the polling and the funding and schedules for ads and all of this. And at some point, David Plouffe, our 2008 campaign manager and senior political advisor in 2012, just pipes up and says, that's all well and good, but high gas prices are an existential threat to the entire enterprise. And Obama, who might have been paying passing attention, it's very possible he was checking his BlackBerry at the time. Yes, he had a BlackBerry. Sorry, people were old. Looked up and said, what? An existential threat to the entire enterprise? And he was right. People get mad about gas prices because that's the thing you can't cut back on. There are certain things,

like if the prices of some goods are high, you can delay those or maybe not go on your vacation, all those things. If you commute to work, and because housing prices in this country are so fucking expensive, many people live very far from work, that is a fixed price in your life. You cannot change it. And you feel it more than than anything else and then you add the fact that you have to drive past it and see the price glaring at you no one puts the price of milk on a billboard in front of the grocery store and guess and guess who drives uh lots of fucking americans yeah most a lot of people are driving here's the thing like i i want to be as fired up as i am i want to be empathetic towards people who are tweeting angrily about this and i get it i get that it

is incredibly annoying to see the media um seem like they are rooting for bad news for the biden administration all the time which it does seem often. And when they exaggerate, when they overhype something, you want to call it out. We do that all the time. I totally understand the impulse. But like people aren't concerned. Here's what you have to remember. People aren't concerned about the price of groceries and gas because a family on CNN gave the wrong price of milk or because Wolf Blitzer took a picture at an especially expensive gas station, they are upset with the price of gas and groceries because they have eyes and cars and a bank account. That's why they're upset. And you have to imagine if you were talking to

someone in real life who came up to you and said that they were struggling financially because it's really hard to fill up their car with gas and it's really hard to pay for groceries every week, you wouldn't respond to that person by saying, well, the media is just lying to you. That's not really true. You would say, oh, I'm sorry. I want to listen. Tell me more about your problems. Tell me about what your struggle is like.

Tell me about how we can maybe fix that. That's how you would talk to someone in real life. You wouldn't start screaming that the media lied to them. And like, we know this not because of anecdotal media reports that these things are high. We know this because of economic reports that we're getting month after month about rising prices and rising gas prices, which again, any American can see as they drive down the street and pass a fucking gas station. I just like, what are we doing?

We are supposed to be a party of working people who understand people's struggles, who have empathy for people. That is the core of the Democratic Party. And now we're just like, we're just going to yell at the media about this stuff? That's crazy. I mean, there is a lesson

that everyone in politics can learn from what I assume is the manual for being an Olive Garden manager, which is the customer is always right. Right? Yeah, exactly. Well, that's the other thing you see is a lot of people yelling like,

voters are stupid. Voters are you. We're all voters. It's all of us together, right? We are in a democracy. The only way this works is if we listen to each other and figure this shit out together. That's it. There is no other option.

You got to listen to the voters. You got to. And again, this is not like i think democratic elected officials including and especially the biden administration especially the hundred totally understand this every tweet every comment from them every statement shows that they totally understand this uh it's just a lot of progressive commentators on twitter and msnbc who do not that's what i'm seeing um so there's other into that i want to dig into that navigator poll though because i do think there was some interesting stuff in there like by 51 to 40 percent voters blame the pandemic for inflation rising prices over biden in congress which does show that like the message

that biden is saying that like this is the pandemic as you were saying this is global this is not just confined to the united states like that is it's not an effective message to to move people, but at least it's not like talking about people who be who've been duped. Right. It's not like everyone has been duped into thinking that, you know, Biden's been a Biden and the Democrats have been these big spenders in Congress. And that's why we have inflation. That's not what people believe. People actually believe that it's the fault of the pandemic, which I think is a good sign. Right. And they hold the president responsible for fixing the pandemic. That's what he promised to do. And although he's made great progress in the economy, there's limits to what he can do. He can't force people to get boosters.

He can't force there to be responsible governors in large red states. But Biden rises and falls with the pandemic. And the economy rises and falls with the pandemic, and the economy rises and falls with the pandemic. And the other thing they did is they tested persuadable voters within this sample of a thousand voters, and they defined persuadable, economic persuadable voters as people who disapprove of Biden on the economy, but approve of his economic plans. So they like Build Back Better, they like infrastructure, but they're unhappy with Biden on economic plans. So they like Build Back Better, they like infrastructure, but they're unhappy with Biden and the economy.

And they tested a number of statements about why prices have risen. And an extremely effective statement that people believed was, as the economy reopens and demand surges, big corporations have taken advantage, squeezing consumers for profit and raising costs that everyday Americans face. Their corporate greed is the reason American families and small businesses are seeing their costs go up. Very popular statement. If you show voters positive economic indicators, good jobs numbers, GDP growth, jobless claims, the percentage you think the economy is excellent or good goes from 26 percent to 39 percent.

So it moves the needle a little bit, but not as much. with the president's letter to the FTC about the oil companies, which is like the president and Democrats have to look like they are fighting the forces that are standing in the way of recovery. And those forces are greedy corporations and the Republicans who support them. Like that's something we could say that. Yeah. Politics is not that complicated. People are angry and looking for someone to blame. So point them in the right direction, right? And so- Yeah. Wolf Blitzer. Yes. Point them at the milk family. And so a very useful place to point them is corporations who they do not like, who are, you know, there is a situation where corporations are making record profits. The stock market is at an all-time high, and Americans are paying more at the pump, at the grocery store, wherever else.

And so somewhere, greed is definitely – corporations do not cause inflation, but they're certainly passing the cost on to people instead of taking out the massive bonuses and profits and stock buybacks and all the other things. Stock market's doing great. They're doing great. Profits are up. They are doing better than ever. And no one is pointing it out, which they love. Right. I want to point one bit of caution at the telling people about the jobs numbers and all of that.

And there's real risk in that. numbers and all of that. And there's real risk in that, which is when you are moving people, moving from good to excellent is with the numbers like this, it means nothing. All you're doing is shifting people already with you to a different category that is also with you, right? What we're worried about are the people in that economically perceivable group or people who have moved away from Biden since the election in part because of the economy. That's who we're interested in. And so we got a lot of crap in 2009, 2010 about why didn't Obama do a better job of talking up the economy? And they're like, well, Donald Trump, art of the deal businessman, he got huge economic approval ratings because he always called it the greatest economy in

American history. Well, yeah, that's true. Unemployment was under five. It's easier to do that when it's at 11, right? But that wasn't like a decision. That wasn't like a gut call on our part to not talk up the economy. We talked to voters about it. We talked to the customers about it. And you know what they would do when we would tell them positive news about the economy is we talk to voters about it. We talk to the customers about it. And you know what they would do when we would tell them positive news about the economy while they were afraid of losing their house, of losing their job, while unemployment was at 10%? Throw shit at the focus group moderator, right? Well, look, I face this challenge every single speech I wrote in those early years, probably until I left the White House in 2013, there is a very difficult balance. If all you talk about is progress and you brag about progress, as you said, you seem out of touch. If all you talk about is people's struggles,

you fuel pessimism. And I think the way out of that is not just to see the president's job as reflecting economic conditions, but the president's job should be showing that he or she is fighting to change economic conditions. And if all you are is a barometer of how the economy is doing today, it's never going to work out. You have to be a change agent yourself. You have to show that you are fighting to make things better. That is the way to get out of the, do I sound optimistic or do I sound pessimistic trap, which is a trap, I think. Right. It is action on behalf of the American people against the people causing the problem, right? That can be Republicans, that can be corporations. But if we were sitting in the

White House right now and we were looking at the polling we were getting from the re-election campaign or the DNC or wherever else, yes, you want to know what the overall sentiment on the economy is. Yes, you want to know what your economic approval rating is. But what you really care about are some underneath numbers, like focused on jobs. And that would be for us, focused on jobs versus focused on rising costs or inflation, whatever term you use. Is that number going up as you do more stuff? You make it a bigger part of your messaging. That's part of the big problem here to date is as far as for people just passively consuming political news, all they know that Biden's doing is trying and frankly not succeeding to pass a very big quote unquote social policy bill,

which seems you have to dig pretty deep and be pretty engaged in politics to understand how and why that bill would help you deal with the cost pressures that are making you so anxious right now. And so one of the most important things to do in all of this is get that bill done and behind us, because it is a huge message blocker right now to actually be able to talk about the things people care about. Once you have done it, you can use it as a data point of the things you're trying to do. But as long as you're like fighting with Joe Manchin and we're dealing with the rule and all this other stuff, it seems like you're focused. This is the jobs and economic bill, the Build Back Better bill is in some ways causing the same problem to them that health reform calls for Obama, which is they see the president focused on something, and they don't think that thing is the thing that they are very worried about. And you got to sort of close that gap as soon as humanly possible.

And the one last thing I'd add is that we really should bring Republicans into the equation here and talk about them a little. And they're giving us some material. Rick Scott said that this is a gold mine for us about inflation. And, you know, A, they are cheering on bad news and they want the economy to tank so that Biden will fail. They are in the pockets of the greedy corporations that are doing this. They are voting against any single piece of legislation that might help people and help the pandemic end and help the economy recover. And they want to take power in the midterms and have absolutely no plan, no policies to fix anything. So, like, don't let them off the hook. I do want to just talk about this Donald Trump statement that he put out yesterday to attack Mitch McConnell again.

I'm going to read this. This what I'm about to read comes on page two, second half of the page of the statement. And I say that because it's very long. But there was a page and a half of bullshit before this, before you get to this part. People, with the help of the fake news media have already forgotten about the horrendous Afghanistan withdrawal, an economy and jobs that are in shambles and so many other things. The good news is they can't forget about inflation because it's hitting them right in the face. This is the broken old crow's fault. He could have won it all by

using the debt ceiling. They were ready to fold. Now the Democrats have a big victory and the wind at their back. Could have fooled us. McConnell is a fool and he damn well better stop their, quote, dream of communism bill and keep his senators in line or he should resign now, something he should have done a long time ago. Use the debt ceiling like it should have been used, you old broken crow. To do so would hurt our country far less than this horrible bill. Thank you and good

luck i mean that man he should fucking thank his lucky stars that twitter had a 280 character limit because that guy needs an editor there are two things that i would like to request. I like to make of American journalists. Now I guess these one is I need an origin story of old broken crow. Like where did that come from? First it was old crow. Old crow was like earlier in the week. And then now he, I guess he didn't get enough attention for old crow. So now he's trying to old broken crow.

It's a real cry for help. It's a real, he's really zagging where other people's egg. There is a well-known well-worn animal analogy for Mitch McConnell. He's been a turtle on multiple pieces of crooked media merch. We all call him the turtle. But we went with crow. Why?

Does he think he looks more like a crow? Is Donald Trump oddly favorable towards turtles? Like I want to know that. He's a branding and marketing guy. Turtle is old he needs something new to keep people interested he didn't come up with turtle so it's not his nickname that's why you know he needs his own thing well like i like that that's a good theory but someone get someone get on this right like okay yeah yeah yeah that's yeah why does politico have investigative

journalists yes why does politico have 87 morning newsletters if they can't answer this question? Okay. Second thing I want to is I want a profile of the person who gets called into the dining room at Mar-a-Lago and has these statements dictated to them. Like it is like a scene out of Mad Men after they've had 17 martinis at lunch. It's just like typing, typing, typing as he says words with no editing and then hit set no and they and obviously they know how to which which words to capitalize which are a lot of words yeah I mean it is a statement

or capitalize with no rhyme or reason there's a lot of air quotes around things for just no reason whatsoever like are there conspiracy theories that the odd use of title case is supposed to like be a code to JFfk jr like what i don't know i like when he just yells at mitch mcconnell use the debt ceiling you old broken crow it's anyway yeah don't forget that that's that's still out there that's going on

oh do you mean the current uh front runner for the republican nomination and someone who is republican front runners at worst a coin flip away from being president in 2025, that person. We can choose not to amplify his statements, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist, nor does it mean that he doesn't exist, nor does it mean that he's not in the lead for the Republican nomination. So that's something to keep in mind.

By like 30 points. Yeah, exactly. Good stuff, good stuff. All right, when we come back, I will talk to Senator Elizabeth Warren. By the end of this week, the House is expected to vote on Joe Biden's Build Back Better plan and send the bill over to the Senate, where God knows what will happen, though the hope is to send this thing to the president's desk by Christmas. Joining us to talk about how Democrats intend to finally land this plane

and bring down costs for struggling families. One of the very best senators we have and a great friend of the pod, Elizabeth Warren. Senator, welcome back. Oh, thank you. It's always good to be with the pod. Good to talk to you. So I know you don't want to negotiate in public, but here's my question. Do you trust Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to help get a bill passed that will make a real difference in people's lives? Can I just slightly reframe that? Because I actually do want to be accurate here. I believe that if we get a bill passed, it truly will affect people's lives. And I mean that in a very good and positive way.

Will it be as many things as I would like to get stacked in this bill? No. We already know that from what's coming over from the House. So, you know, look, I worry and I push and I shove and I pull and I do everything I can possibly do to get us over the finish line, to get the plane landed, whatever metaphor we're using here. But I think if we get something landed, the pieces that are in there that I know are locked in there, universal child care, universal pre-K, home and community-based care,

prescription drug negotiation, not everything, but right off the top, insulin. We're gonna bring down the cost of insulin. Do you know how many million Americans that will affect? I used to do town halls where I would say, hold up your hand if you use insulin, if you don't mind. And a bunch of people, you know, you see it scattered around. And I'd say, hold up your hand if you love someone who uses insulin. And then we were like at 90%. I said, just hold up your hand if you have a friend, someone you know who uses. And then we were at 100%. So I mentioned that one. And those are huge. And those touch families right where they live.

There are others that will arc in over, it's going to take a little more time, like housing. John, depending on who you want to talk to, we're someplace between 3 and 6 million housing units short in America. You want to understand why the price of housing is high? I get it. You know, the folks living in San Francisco say, oh, I can tell you why, you know, what's going.

But the truth is it's happening all around the country. It's happening in urban areas, in rural areas, that prices are just through the roof. And it exacerbates racial inequality in our country. If you don't have a family that can help you with the down payment on a house, it's enormous. It exacerbates the generational inequities that what your folks could buy is not what you're going to be able to buy. And just trying to get in there and make a difference on these. So anyway, I don't want to go on too long.

And just trying to get in there and make a difference on these. So anyway, I don't want to go on too long. But yeah, if we do get this thing across the finish line, it's going to touch people's lives. I saw you quoted in that Politico piece on cinema saying that you thought that she was at least negotiating in good faith. Do you feel the same way about Joe Manchin? I don't think the way to frame the question is good faith, bad faith. I think that they're just different people. And that cinema kind of has her laundry list. Let's think of it this way. Cinema has a grocery list. And she says, here are the things I want. And she goes over to aisle three and picks up what the things I want. And she goes over to aisle

three and picks up what she wants over there. And she goes down to aisle six in the back and picks up. And she goes to aisle nine and says, damn, you don't have the brand I wanted. I don't like this. But they work it. She gets to the checkout counter and she's ready to go. Joe Manchin, it's a little different. You know, he goes over to the over to the baking aisle and says, I'm going to think about the way. And then he's over at the meat counter. And then it's like, wait, where are we going and why? He would not be successful at supermarket sweep. There you go.

He would have a real problem. And again, I'm trying not to be critical because we have got to land this plane. Right, right, right. But there is a difference in kind of between being driven toward let's get this done and still kind of having to talk through some real basics. Yeah, no, that makes sense. I mean, that's what it seems like from the outside is exactly what you're talking about. So that sort sense. I mean, that's what it seems like from the outside is exactly what you're talking about. So that sort of lines up. I want to talk to you about one thing that's driving me crazy that I know is driving you crazy as well, which is why so many Democrats in the House want to use this bill to give rich people a tax cut by restoring state and local tax deduction.

I get that it would help some middle class, maybe upper middle class families. That part seems fine. But you've said you didn't want to go to Washington to help billionaires cut their taxes. What do you want to see the final provision look like on SALT? What would be like an okay provision aside from obviously not lifting it at all? I'd like to see a section called SALT. And then you look under it and what it has under it is it has a wealth tax on billionaires and multimillionaires. Can I do that? I'll call it whatever you want to call it. I'll call it a Christmas pony. I'll call it anything you want to call it. But damn, I mean, come on. This is our chance,

not only to do all the things I talked about like child care and make these investments in our future, but also to put just a little more equity in the system. And the way we do that, we've got three pieces. I think of this as a three-legged stool. Part one is we need a wealth tax on the richest one-tenth of one percent in America. Part two, we need a minimum tax on these giant profitable corporations that tell their shareholders they made a bazillion dollars and then tell the IRS, not really, we were just kidding. And then we need an IRS that has enough money and enough wherewithal to be able to hire people, not just to audit the poorest Americans or even middle-class families, but to audit those guys at the top who have all the complex financial

dealings and who, according to the commissioner of the IRS, are cheating us out of about a trillion dollars. So we do those three things. It has two effects, John. It gives us the revenue we need so that we because it helps make the system fairer. The 99% in America last year paid 7.2% of their total wealth in taxes. That top one-tenth of 1% paid about 3.2%. Asking them to pay a little more, that's where this debate should be. That's what it should mean to be a Democrat. Do you think that at least we can get an income threshold? I saw that Bernie wants to do $400,000.

Do you think we can get something like that in the final bill? So look, is an income threshold better than no threshold at all? Of course. But do keep in mind, you know what Jeff Bezos' income is? $83,000. He makes less than a public school teacher does in Boston, Massachusetts. And yet he can live the incredibly lavish lifestyle without cashing any of his stock in, but just by borrowing against his stock and living on that money.

And then, you know, I assume his long-term plan is to pass this on to his heirs, where because of another loophole in the tax laws, their bases will jump up and nobody in the Bezos clan will ever have to pay taxes on this ginormous load of wealth. He can just keep growing that wealth and not pay taxes. And somebody has to pay to keep this country running. And evidently, Bezos' view is, well, that's why you've got to have middle class. They'll get out there and pay this. The people who work for me, all my delivery people will do it. And you know what? He was gracious enough. Once he actually stepped up and said, thank you guys. Thank you for making all this possible for me. And my view is, you know what?

How about we trade? You don't have to say thank you, but you do have to pay taxes at the same rate as your employees. That's where I want. That seems fair. There are some progressive economists who say that even though Fed Chair Jerome Powell is a Republican, he's pursued a full employment monetary policy, should get another term. You disagree. Why? Well, let's start with he did something that sounds like a Democrat. Okay, but you know what? We get a Democrat Fed chair who'll do that. Let's talk about the things he didn't do that sound like a Democrat,

or at least the kind of Democrat I'd like to see in that job. And that is pay attention to the other half of the Fed's job, and that is the regulatory part. pay attention to the other half of the Fed's job, and that is the regulatory part. I still remember those green span years where year after year after year, what did the Fed do in the late 90s into the early 2000s, where they just never a big one, never one that got a huge headline. They just deregulated a little bit here, weakened the regulation there, opened a loophole a bit more there. And that's what Powell has been doing. And how do I know that?

Well, partly by reading the things that the Fed has done, but also the fact that Lael Brainard has gotten out there and dissented two dozen times from Fed actions each time very calmly explaining, whoa, you're letting the big financial institutions float up on more risk here. You're making the financial institutions just a little riskier here. And here's the thing, John, it's not like he takes two steps on the deregulatory side and then one step to kind of tighten down a little on regulations. Uh-huh. It's been a hundred percent in the same direction Every action the Fed has taken has been to deregulate a little bit more and it's kind of like a giant ocean liner you know you move it it's headed due north and you move it like one degree

Okay It's headed due north and you live at like one degree. Okay. But you do that two dozen times and all of a sudden you're headed off in a very different direction. And the reason this worries me is the Fed's job is very much about monetary policy. You bet. But it's about making sure that we don't crash the economy. Right. Because that costs people their homes, their jobs, their savings.

And just to give you a little hint about some of the things that are really worrisome out there, the crypto world is growing like crazy right now. And just pick one of the tether, one of these so-called stable coins that supposedly is backed up by dollars. So people can use it and say, oh, but this should remind you of the money markets from the, right? From the, what, two decades ago, a decade ago, the money markets. And the idea was, no, no,

there are these assets to back it up. And I was reading the other day that Tether supposedly has something like $63 billion in assets. Okay, that sounds really good, right? That they're backed up. Nobody can find a nickel's worth of what's supposed to be backing it up. If this isn't like a red flashing light. I know, I know. No regulation in this area. Pump and dump. Tirely speculative. Yeah, on and on and on.

And the banks are champing at the bit to bring this on book. The big non-bank financial institutions are now dipping into it. And again, you need somebody at the head of the Fed who says, hmm, not good for anybody, except the guys who are on the winning end of a pump and dump or some other fraudulent scheme not good for anybody not to have just some regulation over this some control over what's happened some separation between banking and speculating in crypto and that's not a guy who is a Republican who doesn't want to regulate. So we need somebody in there who says, I'm willing to pick up both tools, monetary policy and the regulatory part. That's what we need.

You have a few other asks out to Joe Biden. One is to use his executive authority to cancel student debt. The other is to use his executive authority to pardon all nonviolent cannabis offenses. Why do you think he hasn't done either yet? You know, I hope it's just he hasn't had time yet, because these are both really good things to do. Yeah. And they are good things to do. Gosh, I'm going to be an economic nerd for a minute. They're a good thing to do because on student loan debt, for example, it actually holds back tens of millions of people who can't start small businesses, who can't buy their first homes, who can't be full participants in this economy.

And it also has a powerful racial justice issue to it um african americans more likely to borrow money to go to college borrow more money while they're in college have a harder time paying it off when they're out of college same thing for latinx um let me give you one stat on that uh we have a study now showing when you're out 20 years from college um If you're white and you borrowed money while you were in school, you now owe 20 years out on average, 6% of what you originally borrowed. Part of me wants to say, damn, 20 years and you're still paying on this stuff. But end is in sight? If you're black, on average, you owe 95% of what you borrowed when you were in school. And this is the single best opportunity for the president of the United States to help close the black-white wealth gap for people who have student loan debt. for people who have student loan debt stroke of a pen marijuana um actually it's the same kind of issues i want them to expunge the records i want them to let people out if you're non-violent

offender all they've got on is is a marijuana charge let folks go um states have changed their laws on this we finally admitted this idea that going after marijuana, you know, and a war on drugs, gateway drugs, we just realized it never made any sense scientifically and was a way to really engage in a form of oppression of communities of color. And if we just, let's just let people expunge their records, let's let them out. I'll go back to my first point. Let me be an economic nerd.

They get to participate in our economy. They have a better chance of getting jobs. They have better chance of getting promotions. They can apply for scholarships that would otherwise be denied them. In other words, what's your best resource as a nation? It's your people. These are people who should be part of our economy, part of our society.

And the second is the racial justice element. The marijuana enforcement has fallen much harder on people of color. And it's time for us to acknowledge that and just admit the error of our ways, back it up, turn it loose. So there you are, Joe Biden. Yeah, listen up. Two things you can do for our economy,

for racial justice, just need your signature on two different pieces of paper. How hard could that be? It doesn't seem that hard. I mean, as you mentioned, these are policies that would disproportionately help people who are young, black, brown. These are groups that turned out big for Democrats in 2020, not so much in the 2021 off year elections. What lessons did you take from what happened in Virginia and elsewhere a few weeks ago as you look forward to the 2022 midterms?

We need to deliver on our promises. Okay, that's number one. All right. And number two and number three and number four. No, I'm serious. We need to talk about what we said we would do. And look, I want to be fair here. We have done part of it. Keep in mind, what's the first thing we did out of the gate? There are vaccines available everywhere. And yes, part of this is because of the research that was done during the Trump administration, let's give credit, and the CDC folks who were helping make all this happen. But by golly, President Biden came in and he showed we can make government work and

push those vaccines out, ramped up that manufacturing, made it available everywhere. You go down to your corner drugstore now and you can now get a booster, right? You can get it for little kids, all the things you want to do. Second thing is we've cut the childhood poverty rate in half. Can we just stop and say that again? We have cut the childhood poverty rate in half. Can we just stop and say that again? We have cut the childhood poverty rate in half. The child tax credit and making it refundable and making it monthly. And again, also government working. The IRS said, oh my gosh, it'll take us years to put that together. And the administration really bore down on them. And in the space of like

two months, they got this. They got it up and running and the checks go out. And there are kids today who can go to school because mom could buy shoes and a winter coat. Kids who get to participate and got in eighth grade band. I mean, it just gives me goosebumps, right? There are kids whose families just have a little more margin. We cut the food insecurity rate in this country with those child tax credits. So that's what we've done. Now we're working on the rest of this. We've just passed the

infrastructure bill, roads, bridges. We're going to get broadband out there. We should take a victory lap on that. We've got to get BBB, Build Back Better, landed so that we can do child care, so we can get out there and talk about it. But we've also got to make all parts of government work. And that's why I keep pushing forward on the to-do list for President Biden. Cancel that student loan debt. You can do this. And get rid of these marijuana convictions. This is not making us a stronger country. It is undercutting our economy and it's undercutting racial justice in this country. I feel like you and I have always been in the good policy is good politics camp, that if you can make government work, if you can deliver on things that will tangibly improve people's lives, the politics will follow. Obviously, the Biden administration and the Democratic Congress has not done everything

on the to do list, as you mentioned. But clearly, the American Rescue Plan, they've sent out checks, they've cut child poverty, you just listed all the wonderful things they've done. And it has not done anything for Joe Biden's approval rating or the approval rating of Democrats in Congress. And you know, some people argue that maybe, you know, running on policy accomplishments is not the way to do it. Maybe our politics have become all about culture wars and identity, and people aren't focused on the economic benefits that they're getting from government. What do you think about that? Well, look, do I think the Republicans are really good at throwing up culture war?

Heck yes. I watch them do it. And, you know, it's almost like we don't learn from having watched them do this. Do you remember caravans? Oh, yeah. They never really showed up, and then they just suddenly, mysteriously went away after the election. They weren't there at all. Then it's like we get into the countdown to the election, and it's nothing but caravans all the time. Yeah.

New York Times, somebody was telling me they saw something about, you know, like in the, I won't get this right on the details, but like in the 14 days before the election, the New York Times ran a front page story with the word caravans in it like 12 times. All the time. I mean, just all the time. It was everywhere. And then as soon as the election was over, I never heard about it again. So obviously, those guys have a skill that we have not been good at countering. Now, part of that may be because we don't stand up and blow the BS whistle often enough and just call

them out and just meet it head on and just say, you don't know what you're talking about and you're wrong. And I'm sick of the racist dog whistles. Call them out for what they are. But I think part of it is we don't beat our own drum enough. And for example, cutting childhood poverty in half, I stand in front of audiences in blue Massachusetts, right? These are my folks, right? My team here. I stood up this summer in town hall after town hall and said, so let's start with what we've already done. And I mentioned the vaccinations and people were like, oh yeah, you know, they knew we had vaccinations, but you forget, where did they come from? And then the second part, I say, we cut the childhood poverty rate in half. And people would look at me like, what? How do we do that? And then you remind them how the pieces fit together. We ought to focus on the things that we think are important

and that it means to be a Democrat. And then we ought to pound it until they can wake you up in the middle of the night and say, yo, John, what do Democrats do? And you'd be able to say, you're a child care man. We cut the childhood poverty rate in half. I think when that day comes, then we can have the conversation about whether it's culture wars that really drive the electorate or whether it's good policy that affects people's lives. But don't tell me that a slicko job of selling culture wars versus a we stand back in the shadows and just think people will notice that good things happen to them, a bad job of talking about what we're doing. That is not a fair comparison between which one really matters to people. That's my best pitch. What are you and Bruce and Bailey doing for Thanksgiving?

So we're going to be at home. We're going to do family. Bailey is talking about a turkey burrito. There you go. He's in there. He's ready for it. We're going to have some family over. Lovely.

Bruce's brother and sister from down in Plymouth. And, you know, we'll have different folks and we're going to have our kids in. I miss a New England Thanksgiving. I really do. You know, it's really beautiful. I have to say. One of these days I'll come back.

Exactly. Exactly. You're welcome anytime. In fact, if you want to come, I do sweet potatoes at Thanksgiving. Remember, I didn't grow up doing sweet potatoes. Yeah, right. They're Midwestern. Marshmallows on top. And you got at least a one out of two chance that when I get ready to toast them, I'll forget about them and set them on fire. And it adds a little extra drama to our Thanksgiving. That's some excitement. I like that. I like that. Elizabeth Warren, thank you so much for joining pod save america as usual have a wonderful thanksgiving um and we'll talk to you soon okay

you have fun too all right before we go uh we figured it's time to play another round of Take Appreciators with our chief take officer in the studio for the first time, Elijah Cohn. Thanks, John. I really loved your thoughts earlier in the show about how we have to listen to people and can't just bash the media. So on that note, welcome to Take Appreciators. No one said we were beyond hypocrisy here at Pod Save America. Certainly not.

I'm going to share some notably bad punditry with you. The producers have seen these takes. John and Dan have not. They will react in real time and then rate them on a scale of one to four politicos. John and Dan, are you ready? As I'll ever be. Born ready. All right.

We're going to start off with some heat from the New York Times, an article titled, Democrats Shouldn't Panic. They Should Go Into Shock. I knew this was coming. I knew this one was going to be here. This is a gloom and doom piece about Democrats' various woes. Here's the quote. The worst thing that happened to Biden was the Democrats winning two seats in Georgia. It raised expectations among some in his party that they could go left legislatively while the political sun was shining, when in reality, the political math was not there. All right. Any guesses as to who wrote that? Yes. So this is what's interesting about this.

Hotline Josh tweeted this out, right? but it was not a hotline josh story it was a tom edzel story in the new york times tom edzel who is quite bright very good on politics he's been a guest on the wilderness um but he was quoting some random political scientist somewhere who i had never heard of yes bruce kane from stanford which is even which makes it even more egregious as a take because i'm like you're not some Politico reporter who writes a newsletter for them. You're a fucking political scientist. What is that? I mean, I guess I guess in in in defense of this take, you would say, well, he was saying what was best for Biden purely politically. what was best for Biden purely politically was, was this scenario and not from a substantive point of view,

which we would all say, well, of course it's great that we won Georgia because we have all these judges and we got the American rescue plan pass and we'll get the infrastructure bill pass and we might get build back better pass. So like, yes, of course it was great that we won Georgia. But anyway,

Dan, what do you think? I've said too much. Well, I would give the overall Tom Edsel piece three what-a-days. Three what-a-days. Wow. That's on the opposite side.

That's a positive take. That quote is incredibly stupid. And it is one of the problems. And I was a political science major. I have set many points. I just want everyone to know that Dan had a real, a pause after that. Like he,

he was waiting for applause. Well, I will tell you, uh, the plus is always in my head. So that's not a problem, but is a, is technically I was an American government major.

That's what Georgetown calls it. But I was trying to just go with the flow here. Sure, sure, sure. So anyhow, put that aside. Love political scientists. Read a lot of their books. But asking them to provide analysis of how politics is working in the moment is kind of like getting NFL commentary from fantasy football experts. Right? Like two separate things.

Dan is going to get so much hate mail from political scientists. I know. And from fantasy football experts. I love fantasy football. It is a very important thing. I play a lot of it. It is over here. And then the actual what is happening on the field is over here. What is happening like in politics in the moment is hard to be analyzed by people who are looking at it in the broader spectrum of things.

And that's how you end up with – I think Dave Weigel called this on Twitter, green room brain. Yeah. Which is you're trying to think of some like clever take to say. Like there are lots of good political science professors. Don't get me wrong. I'm already awaiting the hate here. to say like there are lots of good political science professors don't get me wrong i'm already awaiting the hate here but it's not a great isn't it it should not be the only way to do an analyzing of politics make sense and i will say for that for all the reasons we've talked about

i will only give this one politico because i do think that the true spirit of take appreciators is to give four politicos to takes that were really intended to trigger in a way and this one just seems like it was dumb all right well let's see how this one does you okay okay from cnn analysis americans aren't feeling relief from biden's big washington victory of course biden just passed uh the bipartisan infrastructure bill on Monday. It is currently Thursday. Here's the quote. Maybe someday Biden will be remembered in the same way as ex-president Dwight Eisenhower,

the architect of the interstate highway system. But it won't help his party in time for the midterm elections next November. I have to say that the headline is even worse than the than the lead which is not quite as bad but the headline is this is the correct way to yell at cnn about the economy because the idea that the guy signs the bill into law and they're like you feeling relief yet where are the fucking roads joe you just signed the bill i don't see new roads yet why are these bridges still broken? I just thought you had the signing ceremony five minutes ago.

Yeah, no, that's not a good take. Who do we think wrote that? Yeah. Yeah, who's the author? Stephen Collinson. Oh, Stephen. Oh, no. Oh, no.

We love Stephen Collinson. Oh, no. Bad, bad take. That's unfortunate. One of our favorites. I'm going to give this one only one politico, and here's why. Both things are sort of true, which is it is stupid to say people aren't feeling it yet. It is also going to be very hard for people to feel the impact of large scale infrastructure projects before the midterm elections, which is why the other bill, the jobs and climate bill, is so much more important. And I'm going to give it to, because while Collinson was more responsible

in his lead, I do have a vendetta against the headline writers everywhere. And I think it's time that they're held into account. We hold them accountable. So I'm giving it to. Yeah. I mean, headlines are part of the game. That's true. That's true. Yeah. And I would say we give, you're exactly right. Headline writers are in the social media age, 1,000 times more important than the people who write the articles. And every time the journalists get really mad that it's the headline, they didn't write it and they yell at everyone getting mad at them. I'm like, don't go, go down the hall and talk to the headline writer, yell at that person. You know? Yeah. If you want to rank the importance of people in the newsroom in this day and age, it is the person in charge of the social media

account first, the headline writer second, and then way down the line are the people who write the articles. And that's sad. I like the articles, but that's just how it is. All right. Well, let's see how you guys like this one. So this next one is from the paul gosar censure story there are a lot of takes about this one out there for context arizona congressman paul gosar tweeted a doctored anime video of himself killing aoc and attacking joe biden and yesterday house democrats and a couple of republicans censured gosar and stripped him of his committee assignments a common take on this including from the wall street journal was well it's just a stupid cartoon but i wanted to go with something a little bit subtler so let's go to axios titled democrats brace for retaliation over gosar censure here's the quote why it matters the speeches that

preceded wednesday's vote illustrated how an effort to hold a member to account only exacerbated the divide between congressional democrats and republic. Oh, Dan, you start this one. I love the why it matters section of Axios because it's like an idea they came up with before they even started the publication and they have been stuck with it to re-explain what was in the previous paragraph and the most basic conventional wisdom for going on five years now and it's just amazing and so this one is gets three politicos and there's a real argument if they keep this up there we may need like a separate axio scale for various things like if it a take is under a certain number of words, it gets an Axios.

Oh yeah, that's interesting. Right for dumb brevity or whatever. Yes. It's just, it's like, this is so typical of all punditry, which is a Republican tweets out, as you say, a doctored anime. Like just even read the words,

like let's repeat the words you said. A Republican congressman tweeted out a doctored anime video of him killing Democrats. And the Axios take is why that's bad for Democrats. It's just it's the it's the entire story of the last two decades. Now, the Republican Party moves further to the right, gets more and more extreme. And if Democrats don't respond, then Democrats are, you know, scared cowards for not responding. And if they do respond, they have exacerbated the divide. Hey, I know who's exacerbated the divide. Paul fucking Gosar. That's probably who did it.

That's probably who exacerbated the divide. Also who exacerbated the divide? Maybe all of the Republicans minus Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger who declined to censure him. Maybe they exacerbated the divide, maybe all of the Republicans minus Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger who declined to censure him. Maybe they exacerbated the divide by not even saying that what he did was wrong. Not even saying what he did was wrong. I don't know.

Be smarter. It is worth noting that for the Wall Street Journal take that it's just a stupid cartoon, that it's not just a stupid cartoon. I mean, Paul Gosar has had a crazy history this year, including headlining a white nationalist conference. It's not like these things happen in a vacuum.

John, what's your final rating? I'm going to go three and a half. Strong. Half a Politico. Yeah. All right, let's go back to the New York Times for this next one. I'm sure you guys saw this. This was by far the most requested take from yesterday.

Requested take. Titled, Want to Save the Earth? We Need a Lot More Elon Musks. So. I miss this. Oh, you'll enjoy it.

This is a piece about COP26 and climate change. And to understand the following quote, you first need to understand that the writer sets up a dichotomy between Mother Earth and what they call father profit. So here is the quote. We will decarbonize the global economy only when father profit and risk taking entrepreneurs produce transformative technologies that enable ordinary people to have extraordinary impacts on our climate without sacrificing much. In short, we need a few more Greta Thunbergs and a lot more Elon Musks. Any guesses for the author of this? This is... I mean, it can't be Tom Friedman, can it? Correct. Nailed it.

Nailed it With that not even I did it without the cab lead. That's great. I have to say I'm gonna give this for politicos because again in the spirit of take appreciator this was like to say You know what to really solve climate change. We don't just need government action But we actually need the private sector to get involved. And some technology and innovation from the private sector could ultimately make a huge difference in how this ends. Completely fine. I agree with it, right? But it was written in a way purely to trigger people who don't like Elon Musk in a way that only Tom Friedman can do for Politicos. I will also give it for Politicos. Tom Friedman, be better.

Respect the game. And as we know, when you tell someone to be better, it works. That's it. It works. When I hear to be better, I'm like, I should be better. There we go. Love a maxed out Politico rating. That'll bring us to our final piece of the day. politico rating and that'll bring us to our final piece of the day uh this may be another one where the title is better than the lead from washington post opinion a trump candidacy in 2024 would

threaten his own legacy all right here's the quote if he runs again in 2024 trump will almost certainly capture the gop nomination but he risked losing in november permanently derailing his movement and cementing a legacy of disgrace how trump is remembered by history hinges on his willingness to clear the way what do you think dan can we do a guess on the author yeah i'm going to guess henry olsen that's a good guess good guess but no is it hugh hewitt it is not it's definitely this is so this is some fucking you know 10 dimensional chess here of someone who doesn't like trump but doesn't want to get in trouble with Republicans and trying something that is not very smart and pretty transparent. It can't be Max Boot, right?

It is not. Though Max Boot is in the runner's up list for this segment today. He was edged out by this one. Is it Mark Thiessen? Nope. Is it Kathleen Parker? It is not. Is it a regular Washington Post columnist?

Does anyone know anyone who's a regular Washington Post columnist? It's a contributing columnist. Ooh, this is tough. Now we can be anywhere. All right, give it to us. Who is it? It's Gary Abernathy. Never heard of that person.

Not a clue who that is. That's not a real person. Sorry, Gary. What does Gary do? of that person that not a clue that that's not a real person sorry gary what is gary that is hugh hewitt's burner account is that is that ron desantis that's who it is ron desantis it's ron desantis yeah if you move the letters around it's a tom riddle lord voldemort situation that is just that gets one one one political for that that's just that's we'd see what you're doing there it's transparent it's not even it's not believable yeah I agree Gary whoever you are and if you're a real person try harder because as you know when you tell me what to try harder they immediately try harder

um good takes bad takes what are you supposed to say? Appreciated takes. Appreciated takes. Elijah Cohn, thank you for joining us. Thank you, Elizabeth Warren, for joining us. Everyone have a great weekend, and we will see you next week. Bye, everyone. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.

The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Sedlin is our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somanator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Madison Hallman, and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montooth. Our episodes are uploaded

as videos at youtube.com slash crooked media.