Pod Save America - Harris Surges, Vance Sinks (feat. Gov. Tim Walz)

Episode Date: July 30, 2024

Donald Trump and friends try out new lines of attack on Kamala Harris as they struggle to confront her momentum—and the new reality of the race. JD Vance still can't figure out how to move past his "childless cat ladies" comments, and Joe Biden introduces a slate of Supreme Court reforms. Then Minnesota Governor Tim Walz stops by to talk about making the case for Harris, what swing voters are looking for, and the state fair foods he can't do without. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, Kamala Harris and Joe Biden call for Supreme Court reform, while Donald Trump panders to Christian activists and crypto bros with just under 100 days to go in the 2024 campaign. We are sub 100, boys. VP shortlister Governor Tim Walz stops by to talk about going after the weirdos and his theory of progressive messaging. And of course, we're going to get into why the J.D. Vance debut has been such a disaster.

But first, Donald Trump is clearly upset he's not running against Joe Biden anymore. He's still out on the campaign trail doing impressions of the president and talking about his golf game, really focused. He's begun the pivot to attacking Kamala Harris, but so far, it's a bit of a kitchen sink approach. Here's a sampling of comments he sink approach here's a sampling of comments he's made over the past couple of days she doesn't like jewish people she doesn't like israel that's the way it is and that's the way it's always going to be she's not going to change

i'm running against a low iq individual her i'm not even talking about him her I got a low IQ individual and now that she's in this position They're trying to make her into a let's say Margaret Thatcher. I don't think so. It's not gonna happen Margaret Thatcher didn't laugh like that did she did she we're not going to let her turn the United States into communist San Francisco Again, she has no clue. She has no clue. She's evil. I want to be nice. They all say, I think he's changed. I think he's changed since two weeks ago. Something affected him. No, I haven't changed. Maybe I've gotten worse, actually, because I get angry. Maybe I've gotten worse.

So Trump's message is that Kamala Harris is stupid, evil, and I guess hates Jews so much that she married one. I guess that's what the message is. Trump also posted a digital ad today that's another version of the Harris in her own words attack about positions she's taken in the past. Tommy, why do you think Trump doesn't have a tighter argument about her on the stump? I kind of think he's just emptying the oppo clip.

You know, he treats these rallies as just kind of live fire focus groups. He sees what works. He sees what they liked. And you're right. I watched the Minnesota rally. He went back to attacking Joe Biden, I think, four or five times. We were making fun of him for walking around. We were making fun of him for pointing, the golf game, like all of it.

I mean, I guess he's still making fun of Hillary Clinton. So what should we expect? Right. We're still locking her up. Yeah. I mean, I guess he's still making fun of Hillary Clinton. So what should we expect? Right. We're still locking her up. Yeah. I mean, you know, Bruce Springsteen is still placed under road. I mean, you just, you do the hits. That's why you go to the Trump rally. That's what they want to hear. Yeah. I'm sure the campaign is like testing all these messages in a real and deliberate way.

And that we'll see the most potent messages in the TV ads and in the debates. But right now he's just kind of having fun with it. Yeah. If you look at the turning if you look at the turning point speech, first of all, I went to, to the, to, to the speech because that's where he says,

uh, Christians vote one more time and then never vote again. And I was like, all right, let's, let's watch this thing and see it. And I was like an hour and eight minutes. Jesus fucking Christ.

This guy never shuts up. Honestly, that's a short one, but it was about 20. Right. But, but in that speech, he's at the beginning,

he's cast around. He's talking about the assassination attempt and being talking about bullet versus fragment. He's kind of rambling. He's doing random attacks here and there. But then towards the end of the speech, there's a more tighter policy-based hit on Kamala Harris. And you can see, oh, that's where the campaign wants him to be. But he's still doing what Tommy's saying, which is fan club sort of guy. Yeah. So it's just if the most committed supporters clap, then that's more important than whatever Chris LaCivita and Susie Wiles are telling him, I'm sure, or putting in ads. What's your sense, just listening to these events and just overall, how far along the entire campaign is in pivoting to Harris? They do have a lot of these attacks in ads now. I mean, if you looked at kind of the Trump

Twitter feed today, it was every hour, a new video about a new subject area. So it does feel like they're all doing what he's doing. I mean, it's sort of like Trump's the, he's the standup, like at the small club working on his material before he goes on the road, right? Like that, that I think they're all in that, in that place, but it does seem like they're focusing on just calling her a San Francisco radical liberal, which is kind of the oldest Republican playbook out there. Yeah, I wonder, right, like if he knew that Kamala Harris was going to be the nominee, is he still planning to go to Minnesota, right? Are we seeing the last bits of the campaign as it was envisioned before Joe Biden stepped aside?

I don't know. Also, like going to think like he's still doing things that reflect a campaign that was in a much more confident position like you know going to the crypto conference like these are gilding the lily type places to go so i i think my question is like does does his travel change uh to some to to to i don't know other states i think there's an obvious like opportunity to playing up her old comments, right? Clearly they're testing this. I'm sure it is probably more damaging

with the voters they need to win the election than some of the really gross stuff that they've been saying and that the larger right-wing media universe is saying. I do think there's a risk for them though in that it is very backward looking. And so if their entire campaign and their entire message about her is look at things that she did in 2019 or 2020 or before that, you know, it's it's useful to them to try to define her before she can define herself. But I think at some point there's a danger there for

them if they just do that the whole time, I think. Yeah, I think that's right. I think Joe Biden's superpower was that he was so established and so kind of safe that their efforts to paint him as somehow unsafe and dangerous, so you shouldn't even listen to him, were not effective, right? Go all the way back, the concerns about Joe Biden in the primary in 2020 was that once he faced the same onslaught as everybody else, his favorabilities and the poll numbers would drop the same way others would. But that didn't happen, right? That was his strength. I think the energy, the enthusiasm, the fact that so much of the country is saying they want new and normal, they're trying in this very quickly to try to make her seem not new and not normal, but to try to get to the point where

people don't hear her when she lays out the actual plans back and forth, because we know that if the election is fought on those stakes, Kamala Harris will win. I just don't think they have time. I just don't think they have time to so damage her while she is out there making this forward-looking case, right? They just don't have the space. You guys feeling shocked that the new trump isn't really taking not only has the assassination attempt not changed him for the better but now he's acknowledging it has changed him for the worse it's so funny it's like it's like i saw my life flash before my eyes and i realized i need to spend more time attacking my enemies i'm not petty enough there are a lot of days in this job where i feel like it's groundhog day and like we just

have the collective political memory of a goldfish but even knowing that it was still like shocking to see reporters regurgitating these lines about him responding in a spiritual subdued way to the assassination attempt i like come on i will say to the credit of the the press it was it was a lot fewer reporters there were a few stories this press, it was a lot fewer reporters. There were a few stories. This time around. Like a lot of people have learned. I think most people have learned.

There's still a few stragglers who were. 70-year-old men don't change. Shooting or not. Well, I also think he realized. Notice at the end of that, he said, well, I'm worse because you know what? I'm angry. I'm angry. He realizes that anger is way more important to his pitch than unity

like he needs to seem like the angry outsider who's mad at the system and wants to tear it down he can't be all like let's come together and bring the that's just not people will know that's not who he is and that's not his message you know yeah i think that's right also like if the when he first said i'm not gonna be nice it's it's it has to start by saying i can't be nice you can't that's not what you need you need me to be your vengeance i need to be greedy for you i need to be mean for you you need me to be that yeah i think he has some advisors who are telling him stand off the edges like like leave the mean tweets part of your personality out of it and you will reach the voters you need to win this election i think those people are right but then there's always going to be Donald Trump who's like, in 2016, I did a hardcore scorched earth base only strategy

and I won. And no one can tell me otherwise. And I'm going to do what I know is right. He's always running a primary. Well, also, by the way, like maybe playing it safe was more right. I mean, I don't know. It could still be right, but it was more right two weeks ago. Yeah. So he did two events over the weekend worth talking about. On Friday, he spoke to a gathering of Christian activists called the Believer Summit. And then on Saturday, he spoke to a convention of cryptocurrency enthusiasts. Here's some of what he said. We will be creating so much electricity that you'll be saying, please, please, president, we don't want any more electricity.

We can't stand it. You'll be begging me. No more electricity, sir. Have a good time with your Bitcoin and your crypto and everything else that you're playing with. Christians, get out and vote just this time. You won't have to do it anymore. Four more years. You know what?

It'll be fixed. It'll be fine. You won't have to vote it anymore. Four more years. You know what? It'll be fixed. It'll be fine. You won't have to vote anymore, my beautiful Christian. Beautiful Christian. So the you won't have to vote again clip got a lot of play over the weekend. I think even Cardi B weighed in on Twitter. It went pretty viral. Lovett, what was your take on that? So I think people should be sharing it. They should be spreading it. It does show a total disregard for democracy. He has made a version of this point before. In the past, when he has done this riff, what he has said is, right now, you have to come out in numbers that overwhelm the ways in which... I'm just translating that you have to overwhelm democratic rigging the system.

You wouldn't have to vote so hard. All of you wouldn't need to vote if the system weren't rigged and they weren't faking the election results. So if you vote this time and I win, I'll stop all the electoral fraud and then you don't have to vote as much. That is the generous interpretation of it.

But do I think he also enjoys that this sets off a round of he's going to be a dictator on day one? Like, do I think he also enjoys that this sets off a round of he's going to be a dictator on day one? Like, do I think he is being like vague and anti-democratic and trolling on purpose? Absolutely. And by the way, what he is saying is obviously false. They're trying to make it harder for people to vote. They're trying to disenfranchise people. And so I see nothing wrong with pointing out that what he is saying here is about the ways in which he poses a threat to democracy, even if it's, I think, a little different than what the more extreme version of the interpretation.

That's my take. Tommy? It's a strong take. I mean, it could be a couple things. It could be vote for me and I'll fix everything and you won't have to care anymore. It could be vote for me this time and I won't run again and I won't care anymore. It could be him signaling that he's going to end American democracy as we know it. I mean, I'm kind of an Occam's razor guy.

I imagine he was just kind of making a joke. That doesn't mean he's not a threat to democracy. And so I thought, you know, I thought some of the reaction was a bit high-dudgeon over the weekend. I saw a bunch of Twitter users screaming at Kate Bedingfield, who is Joe Biden's communications director, and calling her a fascist and a Trump supporter because she had a more, you know, not charitable, but she sort of thought he was not signaling that he was going to end democracy as we know it. You know, this is a woman who moved her family and small kids to a city to work for Joe Biden to try to defeat Donald Trump. I think, you know, maybe pump the brakes

on attacking the modems of everyone who disagrees with you on this subject. But yeah, Donald Trump's a threat to democracy. This quote doesn't change it. Yeah. And here's why I think this is worth talking about, because, again, we are trying to persuade voters who don't like Donald Trump, but are not necessarily either sold on Kamala Harris or so scared of Donald Trump that they're not going to vote for him. And clearly clearly last time trump wanted to stay in power so badly that he tried to throw away our votes and incite a violent insurrection that's that's just true and there's no evidence that he's changed in any way in fact

as he acknowledged he's gotten worse so like we don't you don't need to put more spin on the ball than that right like that's that's who he is that's what he said last time i kind of landed where you did tommy that it's he doesn't care right and for it's it's so it fits well with the biden campaign's message and now the harris campaign's message that trump doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself right he's saying everything to anyone that he needs to just to win right now and then he's like in four years i'll fix everything and you have to worry about me he doesn't give a shit what happens in politics after four years he doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself. Right. He just wants to win. That's all he cares about right now. And like what happens when he wins? Anything's on the table. Right. Like after what we saw fucking last time. But I think that's where his mind was. think he doesn't care i think he doesn't care who wins next time either of course but i like again like this is just loose trump having just kind of going back to his back catalog of riffs

and like this is a riff like i think like there is just a collective like he does all these things before like the people are like oh my god he said uh thin people don't drink diet coke he's been doing that bit years for years this is a bit he's done before he's saying i'll fix they steal elections i'll fix it so that you don't have to worry about it anymore. Like that, that I think is like the riff, that is the bit he was trying to do. The Christian activist event I get, why do you think he put in time at the, at the crypto convention in Tennessee? I think this one's very simple. It's money and men. The crypto focus packs are raising hundreds of millions of dollars. There's one that's like, I think, seeded by Coinbase that has raised 200 million some odd dollars. And so Trump wants that money. You know, he knows they spent 10 million against Katie Porter in the Senate race here in California,

and he wants to get all their cash. Also, I think the Trump campaign rightly views crypto as a way to reach young men who might not otherwise care about politics. Some of them are at this convention. Some of them just care about crypto and don't want to be regulated. So that's why Trump flip-flopped his position on crypto. He left office and he was like, crypto sucks. I don't think it's a good idea. And now he's full on pro-crypto because like, you know, some VC guys in San Francisco had a fundraiser for him. Not unlike what he did with his uh position on the tiktok band right

yeah this is and this is just this is back to my point about where the in four years it won't matter comment comes in it's he's literally he's just saying anything to anyone he needs like and you could see that when you could hear that in the in the crypto comments be like have fun with your crypto your bitcoin or whatever he has he has no idea passion for the issue yeah i would i would like to have someone ask trump um explain the blockchain yeah tell me about the blockchain i don't know i'd like any of us to explain the blockchain but the i also i like it's this is like the the fucking endless perma challenge which is like this is all so stupid and also ridiculous but then you think oh he's also proposed a bunch of tariffs you know what would make trump feel all powerful for four years of president?

Everybody was constantly afraid that he was about to apply some kind of a tariff that would affect their ability to produce goods abroad. Like a lot of what he wants to do economically is to put more power in his hands to like choose winners and losers and kind of wield the power of the White House. That's that that is always on his mind. There's so many opportunities for corruption in all this. That is always on his mind. There's so many opportunities for corruption in all this. Well, and even if he doesn't decide to stay in power forever, he's going to want four years of his supporters telling him how he's the most wonderful president who's ever existed. So he's going to let them do whatever they want.

This is why the J.D. Vance stuff and the Project 2025 stuff and all that stuff should be scary to people. Because even if you don't think Trump's into that, for the next four years, if he's in the White House, he's going to be like, yeah, I want to hear how great I am. So I'm going to let the people around me do whatever they want. Yeah. I mean, that's who comes along with him in this coalition. That's what we all have to remember. So the other big topic of political conversation has been Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance, who has yet to generate a good headline for the campaign since he was nominated. The Washington Post has a story about how people in Trump's orbit, including Lindsey Graham, were trying to talk him out of picking Vance right up until the last minute. Now we're on week two of the fallout over Vance's comments to Tucker Carlson that America is run by too many, quote, childless cat ladies who are miserable at their own lives. And then he went

on to specifically mention Kamala Harris, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and Pete Buttigieg. Vance also said that people without children should pay higher taxes. It's gotten so bad that even right-wing media types are starting to wince. Here's former Republican congressman turned Fox News host Trey Gowdy interviewing him on Sunday night. Because people are calling me, who very much would like to support you and President Trump. Dr. Connie Rice does not have children, neither does my friend, your

colleague, Tim Scott. George Washington did not have biological children and neither did James Madison. So I think you will agree with me that direct offspring are not necessary to be fully invested in the future of this country? Of course not, Trey. I do think that being a parent actually has a profound effect on somebody's perspective, and we should honor and respect that. But there are a whole host of people who don't have children for a whole host of reasons, and they certainly are great people who can participate fully in the life of this country. And that's not what I said, Trey. If you look at what the left has done, they have radically taken this out of context and in fact aggressively lied about what i've said it's um so people with their children can still exist

in america thanks pal thanks buddy wow appreciate the kind words how about that first of all that's compassionate conservatism the the if you haven't seen the full trey gowdy clip it's worth it's worth watching in full he tells a beautiful and moving story about two women he met and then reveals that they were nuns and how much they were caring and wonderful people and you have to imagine jd vance is sitting in a studio somewhere he's got his fucking ear thing in listening to a full five minutes ripping him to pieces on Fox News. And the question comes, it's like, J.D. Vance, tell me where I'm wrong. You seem like a huge asshole. It was really, really unbelievable. What do you think about this? I think this is so politically damaging. Some people choose not to have children,

and that is totally fine. And that's a valid decision. And to say that they're lesser citizens somehow in this country is outrageous. But there's also countless people who desperately want kids, but can't have them for physical reasons, for medical reasons, for personal reasons. They can't afford them. And he's telling those people they're lesser citizens too.

Like that is such a cruel- He said to somebody, he's like, of course, because I think children are so important. People who can't get pregnant or can't have children, of course I feel for them. It's like, well, that's not what it's sounding like. You're saying they're a lesser citizen. You're not going one by one to every woman in the country

being like, now, are you doing this by choice or is there something that you're not telling us? How fucking dare you make assumptions about every person that doesn't have kids? The whole reason you let people mind their own business is you have no idea what's going on in their lives. That was exactly Pete Butt budaj's response to this which is what he said he's i have two kids and he's like and we had a lot of trouble and we it

took us a long time to to have these two children he's like and i'm sure jd vance didn't know that but that's exactly why you don't make guesses and and broad generalizations about a whole category of people as someone who is who's struggled to have kids and now does, I cannot tell you how personally cruel and painful those comments are. No one is ever going to forget that. If you're a woman who's miscarried and now doesn't have children and you desperately wanted them and you hear that, that cuts you so deep and it will stay with you for life.

He also said that parents should get more votes. Did you see that one where he said that if he said what happens is if you should get as many votes as children that you have so that but the children shouldn't vote, obviously, until they're a voting age. So the parents now get a parents with three kids get four votes or two votes and and then single people don't get that vote so he literally wants to make people without kids have less of a voice in public life he he's already said that he also then said he's sympathetic to the idea that federal agents should be able to track down women who travel out of state to get abortions because it is banned where they live so he wants a federal response to women who leave

a state with an abortion ban and try to get an abortion out of state. This is all like, and I talked about this a bit with Governor Walz, but also like, you know, he's also not in the party that's trying to make sure people have prenatal care, people have pre-K, people have health care and access to affordable education all the way, all the rest, right? So it's like, what is the only kind of incentive that they want to provide to have children? Like the fear of their moral judgment is a big piece of this. But it's also just this it speaks to the real mistake in J.D. Vance, which is like he is really kind of letting the world into a very small niche right wing conversation around family where they've been talking. Peter Thiel, Elon Musk now are part of this. And it is a kind of combination

of right-wing Christian judgmental policymaking on top of a kind of patriarchal idea of what the family should be, what people should do like who like what's the right way to live telling people how to live and once it gets just a little bit of light in there everyone's like what the fuck are you people talking about they say it's not even christian frankly it's like as you mentioned the story about the nuns and like it's just it's so it is an it is an extreme ideology that is somewhat new in the last several decades, right?

Where like this, it's, I mean, AOC tweeted that it sounds like fucking incel culture, which, you know, there are a lot of parallels. It's insolidation. Exactly. It's totally insolidation. He is like a right-wing blog's comment section became a person. Yeah. You know?

And like, you're right. He's going in some weird intellectual circles. It's like Heritage, Peter Th thiel the claremont institute even more french people yeah people we never heard of yeah and these like those guys are are happy to debate some very out there political ideas because they don't have any consequences because they're not running for anything but jd vance kind of like dabbles in that and he leaves this long paper and audio trail and you got to wonder, how much of this did the Trump campaign find or vet? I'm sure not all of it. I really like, I also, so he says that childless people quote, hate normal Americans for choosing a family. And now his defense is he's like, well,

Kamala Harris is anti-family. The democratic party is anti-family, anti-children. There is bipartisan legislation to your point, to extend the child tax credit that's stuck in the Senate where J.D. Vance works right now because Republicans did not want to give Joe Biden and Kamala Harris an election year win on the issue. This passed the House overwhelmingly. Republicans and Democrats, it got to the Senate and they were like, oh, it's April, it's spring, it's getting too close to the election. We want to get it. So they care about rewarding families with kids and giving families with kids a break so much that they just like stuck this thing that they're for in the senate because they didn't want same thing with the fucking

immigration deal it's just it also by the way like it just also just goes to like the judgmental invasive kind of politics this is because one thing that that jd vance talked about is that how much he like he is more in favor according to to his own words, a child tax credit than he is to universal child care. Right. Because universal child care subsidizes parents who work. Right. And that he would rather subsidize. He would be still still stuck in the Senate because Republicans. But that like, oh, if you want that, like he wants to encourage a traditional structure. Right. So like universal child care is a kind of like way of appeasing kind of the left and like liberal people, especially liberal women. And it kind of just gets to this like kind of

worldview about like the left that he's kind of unable to stop himself from espousing. What does the Trump campaign do about J.D. Vance? J.D.'s in a tough spot because like the number one rule for Trump is you cannot back down and look weak, but boy, should he be backing down and conceding some things and being like, I messed up. I was wrong about this. But he's just bulldogging ahead. And like like Lovey mentioned earlier, like you have Republicans like Trey Gowdy basically begging him to clean this up. You've got Ben Shapiro criticizing him.

You've got Dave Portnoy, the head of Barstool Sports, being like, who is this idiot? How the hell did this guy get on the ticket? And like Fox and Friends, Brian Kilmeade was saying it too. They just, they can't seem to fix it. So it seems to me like they're just going to attack Harris, wait for the next news cycle, hope it all moves on. But man, like this guy is getting defined. JD Vance is getting defined in this first couple of weeks and it's entirely negative. And we're not even having a conversation about how he is manifestly unqualified for the job. And the fact that it got to the reason

I brought up Fox and Friends is, you know, Trump is seeing this now. Oh, yes. You know, he is seeing some of this criticism. And the only thing that has surprised me, now we're recording this on Monday, is that we have not seen a leak yet that trump is pissed to a donor to a friend then it'll be at a rally you know it's coming right

like i'm shocked that we haven't done getting some calls for sure yeah the other the other problem right is that okay so there are all there's all these recordings that are floating out there he's then doing a bad job of cleaning them up when uh he's doing a round of interviews you could maybe say all right no more interviews we got to get this guy on the stump he's doing a bad job on the stump like the the fact that his convention speech was so disappointing the the rally speeches he's been giving they are plotting not very well done not very he's just not that great he moves too slow so like what you would say is just get this guy out there, get him with a 10, 15 minute tight, good stump with a few new sharp hits on Kamala Harris or whoever the VP pick is. But man, like I just it's hard for this guy to

run from this when he's just so unappealing in every setting. He's also got a lot of training wheel stuff. He's like doing interviews with Trump. What a waste of time. I know. It's also the challenge of the Trump Republican Party trying to rebrand itself as like the Workers Party, right? Even if you decide to pivot from the tax cuts for the rich and the deregulation agenda and all that bullshit, they are so obsessed with the like weird cultural shit that even if they have an economic populist story to tell like jd vance ostensibly does and has in hillbilly elegy and since then like it's just going to get lost because they have all these other crazy ideas on cultural issues that are so out of step with mainstream

america that that's going to get the attention right and so like jd vance could go give some stump about like how you know president biden kamala harris overlooked ohio and michigan and wisconsin and look at all these like but it's not going to get any attention because he's written all these things and sell these things in the past that just make him fucking weird he's a weirdo he's a weirdo Let's talk about our Democratic nominee, Vice President Kamala Harris. On Monday, she endorsed President Biden's brand new proposal for Supreme Court reform, which includes 18-year term limits for justices, an enforceable ethics code, and a constitutional amendment that would strip away criminal immunity for former presidents. The Harris campaign also needled the Trump campaign over their refusal to

commit to the debate they had already agreed to. And the campaign put out a statement saying Harris will be at the ABC debate on September 10th, whether or not Trump is there. Clearly, the energy and enthusiasm for Harris is unlike anything we've seen in politics for a very long time, which is great. They've raised over $200 million. They're reportedly going up on the air this week. And Harris will be on the campaign trail in Atlanta Tuesday for the first time since she was in Milwaukee last week. What's your sense of how the overall strategy is coming together? I like that they're going on offense.

The original frame was kind of prosecutor versus convicted felon. I think the bigger picture message is future versus the past, which is incredibly refreshing to hear. And obviously, for obvious reasons, Joe Biden couldn't really credibly be the one delivering that message, but he also wasn't great at laying out the second term agenda. And she has seized that mantle and done so very quickly. Now, both she and Biden are talking about this court reform stuff that I love, because who doesn't support an 18-year term limit and a binding ethics code? I bet those pull through the roof. Extremely well. Through the roof. At a time when the faith in institutions is going down, including the courts, it's a great idea. She's also, I think, very quickly walking back some

positions from the 2020 primary that her team feels like are too progressive or too liberal. And that's going to bum out some Democrats. But it's probably a necessary move. I just sketched that shit. You have the best position for the general election. But it's smart to do that quickly. Just rip that bandaid off. Yeah, we haven't.

We like. I don't know. It's just like been a it's been a week. I know. And I just we've said it what's happening is extraordinary the like sophistication and like of the campaign the amount that they've been able to mount the like the the the videos the the digital strategy the speeches she's giving that the tone the fact that it like feels like coherent national campaign with like a clear

overall message like that is an extraordinary achievement like we're national campaign with like a clear overall message. Like that is an extraordinary achievement. Like we're watching unfold. And like, I just, I like think like, all right, you know, two weeks ago, this enthusiasm was not there, right? Like how do we make most of that enthusiasm in this moment? Right. Not just with fundraising, but like there's some, you know, we were talking about this before recorded, but just that all of a sudden, like there's all these people on like places like TikTok talking about how like, hey, you know, we may not agree with her and everything. And yeah, she may be walking back some of these positions, but we're all coming together to do this in November. We can protest in January. We can be frustrated. But anybody that's not getting on board this train right now is not understanding the stakes.

And like, what is the vibe shift worth? I don't think we know yet, but it's just been so reassuring to even see that change you know i've seen a few comments like people being nervous that they're not up on tv yet or like is she not on the road more and stuff like that i've just seen a few of them here and there not much but i like i don't think people understand like no one has ever built a plane in the air like this with less than 100 days to go on a campaign a presidential campaign like usually with less than 100 days to go on a campaign, a presidential campaign, like usually in a presidential campaign, when you just start out your campaign, which she did as the presidential candidate, you do like months of meetings with strategists and advisors.

That's why you're not on the road. You're not like taking vacation, like you're sitting there and you road test a stump speech, right? And then you refine the stump speech. And that takes like for Obama that took us between, I don't know, February of 2007 to October to get it right. Oh, and he was bad for a while. Terrible. He was really bad. There was at one point where Paul Tuzor, our state director, was like, maybe we shouldn't have him back in Iowa for a while because this is not going well. It was awful.

Remember that we were all in Iowa. You guys were obviously for Obama. that we were all in Iowa. You guys were for obviously for Obama. And but both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were giving these one hour meandering stump speeches, one hour plus, because they were getting questions and they're trying to answer every question in their long speeches. So maybe there's some advantage to not having. I know you you have to test a bunch of ads, right? Before you just do the ads, you want to test them to see if they work, to see if they resonate, if you're going to spend that much money. I mean, there's so much to do. And the fact that they have done this much with the help of, you know, everyone else being really excited in a week's time is just mind boggling. It's mind boggling. So it's like,

you know, I do think on the Supreme Court reforms, those are great. People should just know that it is very unlikely to happen without 60 votes in the Senate or a Democratic House or 51 senators who are willing to get rid of the filibuster for these reforms. I do think the constitutional amendment to get rid of criminal immunity for former presidents, which is now there thanks to the Supreme Court, is, I mean, constitutional amendments are, like, the bar is so high. It's two-thirds of both houses of Congress. It's three-fourths of the state legislatures, You know, that's but good for Joe Biden for like laying down this marker, which he had said he was going to do before he left the race. And, you know, good for Kamala Harris for to lay down the marker because, you know, filibuster reform started years ago when we only had a few few senators saying they're willing to do it. And now it's like everyone but Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema. So that's what you do. Back to the point about enthusiasm and donations. How much do you think that matters right now? I think the money and the volunteers are very real.

And I do like, I'm with you that it's silly, I think, to criticize them for not being on TV right now. But I do hope they're up soon because we are in a race to define Kamala Harris before Republicans try to define her their way. And so you can get a bunch of TV ads on, you can get these new volunteers at the doors to backstop those ads with conversations with people. Most people just don't know much about Kamala Harris. And that's the truth. She's the vice president, but a lot of people won't know much about her. So getting ahead of these negative attacks is hugely important. Getting ahead of these negative attacks is hugely important. I also like there's been so much value to having a candidate who is not just like we have now have some of that is kind of taking the fight to Trump.

And I do think that in ways that are very hard to measure. I think that's inspired a lot of people to just say what they think more. Right. Like, yes, there are people out there auditioning to be vice president. You're going to hear from one in a minute. But I also just think there's been a kind of collective realization that all of us, I think because of a feeling of like concern, a feeling of anxiety, a feeling of, I don't know, being dispirited, like all of us were collectively not fighting hard enough. And I think that that's incredibly valuable. And another point that the governor makes is just about like, why are we losing some

of these disaffected people? Well, some part of it is that people just want to be part of a winning team, a team of people that are excited to be on that team. And like that enthusiasm gap was real. There were people that are extremely excited for Donald Trump and we just didn't have that on our side. And now we do. And like, we'll see what the ultimate value is. But man, is it nice to see. Yeah, I mean, you can make an argument that an enthusiastic voter and an unenthusiastic voter, both of them voting for your candidate, the vote counts the same, right? I get that. But we were in a situation with Biden where the polls

consistently showed that younger voters, especially younger black and brown voters, were just not enthusiastic and maybe weren't ready to back Biden. And the Biden campaign's argument was, you know what? They're not enthused now. They will come home in November. Maybe, right? But in a close race, we were in a situation then where there was a legitimate case to be made that a low turnout election might help Democrats. Because if it looked more like a midterm electorate or a special electorate, then it was going to benefit Joe Biden. I don't think we're in that situation anymore because now Democrats can actually focus on registering and turning out excited voters who otherwise may have stayed home. And having this many volunteers means you can have that many more conversations with people who weren't going to vote for Kamala Harris or weren't going to vote for Donald Trump,

maybe weren't going to vote at all. And now you can have more conversations and they see that their friends are excited and they're like, oh, I want to hear more about that. It does build, especially in a close race. I think if we're being honest, the 2020 election was an anti-Trump coalition that came together to defeat him. It was not a pro-Joe Biden coalition. Maybe we could have brought back that anti-Trump coalition this cycle, but I think frankly, we're in a much better position because we're giving people something to be for and something to be excited about. And that's what was missing. We talked about how she should respond to Trump's attacks. We talked about last episode. Like, how do you think she should be going on offense? And what

do you think the campaign should be doing between now and when they announce the VP, which will likely be next week at some point, according to their timeline. Yeah, it's a good question. You know, like you sort of look like what sort of breaking through and, you know, the renaissance of their weird has been been interesting to watch a kind of new take on like the challenge, right? Is like Trump, even when he says something terrible, it's very it's almost always something terrible. He said some version of before. It's like, how do you make Trump feel new and interesting to be covered? I think new language like we've seen has been doing that. I think having all these different VP candidates vying has been doing that. I think as she's hitting the road, like, you know, we talked about, you know, one, what she's not been able to do or she like, you know, they're, they're

currently working on a convention speech without the like year of trying stuff, just trying different versions of riffs, trying different versions of attacks, trying different versions of lines. But the plus side of that, right, is every time she speaks and try something new, it is new, right? Like it's a new, it's a new attack. It's a new take on Trump. It's a new way of, of her campaigning. And I think that that's like a real, that's a cool thing about this moment. It is. I mean, you hate to make any campaign about just like winning the news cycle because it's about bigger than that, but with less than a hundred days left, the reason the reason the jd vance stuff is so valuable is because now we could have had a week about kamala harris and her and you know like the trump campaign

attacking her and instead we had a week about jd vance she also has remember at the beginning of a campaign in a general election campaign you do all of your policy rollouts if you're the candidate in the spring and so and she hasn't done any of that yet and look a lot of your policy rollouts if you're the candidate in the spring. And so and she hasn't done any of that yet. And look, a lot of her policy will be similar to what Joe Biden has already proposed. But she's going to get to eat up some new cycles, propose it and get some attention proposing new policy. So she'll have that. She'll have the convention. And I do think to the point about needing new information, if she can pivot to because she's got to go on offense against Trump, she can pivot to talking about what Trump will do in the second term. That's new information for voters. And I think that she if she wants to make news about Trump, you know, you're going to have a better chance making news talking about what he's planning than talking about like everything people know about Trump already and his character and all that. I also think one thing that Obama was really good at in 2007, 2008 was delivering a hit

as a joke or with humor generally to like soften it and also make it more interesting. And, you know, Biden, I think struggled to do that recently. You know, he seemed defensive and angry at times. Kamala Harris is very good at delivering a hit while laughing. And I think the calling Republicans weird narratives just perfectly folds into that. Just they are weird. Project 2025 is weird. delivering a hit while laughing. And I think the calling Republicans weird narrative just perfectly folds into that. They are weird. Project 2025 is weird. Calling the Jan 6 insurrectionists hostages

and playing their song is weird. QAnon is weird. Bringing that all up is worth it. I even think that when she does the prosecutor versus felon riff, there's a way to do that where you sound like your fingers pointing angry kind of and she when she delivered i know his type yeah like it was the exact right tone i wondered too like like you know just like good old-fashioned donald trump said at an event over the weekend

that i'm not gonna have that that we're not gonna have to vote anymore would you want to have the vice president at her next stamp be like did you see this here's what donald trump said that this is gonna be the last election because he's not gonna have you vote anymore like that's because he's scared of your vote like would you be out there kind of like trying to make news cycles out of the weird new things you can kind of grab from his speech i think the answer yes yeah for sure definitely i also think there's just a broader point like trump is a celebrity he's larger than life he's still this kind kind of like New York character from The Apprentice in some ways. But electing him empowers people like Speaker Mike Johnson,

who sends his son a weekly update on his porn viewing to prevent masturbation. That's a real thing that happens in this world. That's weird. It's weird. No one wants that. No one wants that person to be empowered and part of this governing coalition.

J.D. Vance is the embodiment of Project 2025, right? Project 2025, it's been landing with voters. And I talked to Sarah Longwell about this wilderness over the weekend. It's been coming up organically and focus groups. And part of it is this conspiratorial nature. We've talked about this. Now you have J.D. Vance, who like everything about him is Project 2025, including all of the weird shit. And it just makes it easier to, I think, effectively communicate the stakes of the election and what's going to happen.

Because you're like, Trump, whether he cares or not about this shit, J.D. Vance is going to be the vice president. And he's going to be sitting there implementing all the crazy Project 2025 shit. Yeah, it's like the villain from the Da Vinci Code wearing a tech vest, like Elon Musk. You put that guy in the tech vest. It's like the worst of old, kind of revanchist, traditional

mores and laws to control people and the tech fucking bureaucratic, technocratic control. Put those fucking things together. You got a pretty gross dude. Get that guy on the psychiatrist couch, you know? Hey, he's like, I'm having trouble concentrating because of the couch.

Because it's an attractive couch. Anyway, I'm going to cushion those remarks. Hey, hey, you going? Yeah. So, so close sofa. We should pull out of this one. Hey. So close, sofa.

We should pull out of this one. The point about Trump, Tommy, and how he's like the celebrity, well-known, everyone knows everything about him, and also your point about past versus future. I think in mocking Trump, a little bit of like, aren't we sick of this by now? The act is getting old.

Did you see that? The Trump act is just getting old. Did you see the rally the other day when he was like they made fun of me and i hate getting made fun yes like oh yes he tells us everything and you know what he hates the most about in terms of getting made fun of is irrelevance the idea of irrelevance or that like he's not cool or that he's yesterday's news boring he's boring he's old annoying it's not like this the trump is senile thing that everyone's pushing around on twitter i don't think that people buy that as much it's like the guy it's just we're so tired of this it's like the same blah blah like you said yeah

the same hits the blah blah blah we're gonna get the shark thing we're gonna get the hannibal lector thing and we're not like upset about we're just like enough with this drama and the just the endless noise shays and shays of the same speeches yeah no it's just it's um i keep someone in the someone just did you look up synonyms for i did yeah of course of course um someone in one of the focus groups who's a swing voter uh trump biden swing voter he was like you know the problem with trump is it's just like we know what we're gonna get it's just a rerun for four more years and i'm like yeah someone should use that that's a good line it is like a rerun it is like a rerun so we're getting fucking celebrity apprentice reruns for another four years we have seen it new and it's not new to us yeah that's my that's that's

my thing all right speaking of vp pics when we come back from the break you'll hear love it's conversation with governor tim walls before we get to that, though, a pitch from us. Look, when we started doing this show, we wanted it to be a home for everyone who wanted to be part of a progressive conversation. We want you to join in and help us invite more people to do the same. If you haven't subscribed to our podcast yet, now's the time.

Follow us on Apple. Help juice the algorithm to get the pod in more people's ears. And if you've got 20 seconds, please share your favorite episode with your friends, families, undecided voters you've matched with on Hinge, or anyone else in your life who could be more engaged, active, and hopeful for democracy. When we come back, Tim Walls. Beyond serving as governor of the great state of Minnesota and chair of the Democratic Governors Association, our guest today is also rumored to be under consideration to serve as Kamala Harris's vice presidential pick. Welcome back to the show, Governor Tim Walz. Hey, John. Thanks for having me. Good to be back on.

Great to have you. Governor Walz, no disrespect here, but a matter of of days ago you were basically unknown on the national stage now a good chunk of the internet knows what rides you went on at the state fair last year where the fuck have you been doing my job out here i'm just plugging away and just plugging away and hibbing yeah just doing the work so vice president gets dangled in front of you suddenly like one of the best messengers in the party where what Where we needed you. Yeah, I was coaching those football teams, plugging away. No, it's get some observations. Look, there's joy all over the place.

The vice president blew the lid off this thing and it feels like a spell's broken. So I'm excited. Yeah. So you said that as part of this new joy and enthusiasm that your kids who are 17 and 23 told you TikTok was on, TikTok was on, TikTok. I'm a hundred years old. That TikTok is on fire with enthusiasm. Are they your Gen Z whisperers?

They are, they are. My daughter, especially, she's a good one. I'll have to say she's out in Montana, social worker, but she's in tune to it. I listen to her. I get her work ethic, the things she cares about. And look, these guys have been through a lot, quite seriously. When they were kids, they went through the Great Recession.

Their COVID babies missed out on things there. And then they're coming out of this, and they're seeing Trump bring back this horrific message, and they're done with it. I think I'm feeling it. This is their first time to really feel a campaign that's enthusiastic. That's what I see. So, you know, speaking of the seriousness that they've experienced, you have talked about changing your views on gun safety in part because of the urging of your daughter. Are you worried at all about the accusation of being in the pocket of big children?

Yes, it's my kids are influencing me. I got the other day, got asked, I'm horrible progressive because our children eat breakfast and lunch in school. We just got to embrace the things that make this country great. But no, in seriousness on that one, I'm friends with David Hogg. He and I have talked about this. I think an evolution on this. I grew up, and I know this is a small towner, but I put my shotgun in my car at school or in the football locker to go pheasant hunting afterwards. That was a reality. But we weren't getting shot in school. We didn't have ARs in school.

And so I said, it was for me both a reckoning and an embarrassment. I was one of the people who took the meeting with 23 sets of parents from Sandy Hook in my office, and they thanked me for taking the meeting. That's a reckoning. And then to just listen, their kids would have been my son's age at 17. So I appreciate all the people who've worked on that, and we're seeing that move. So there's reasons to be optimistic. These kids have seen a lot, but they're ready to end it.

And boy, when you see the numbers flipping and how much they engaged, and don't make light of TikTok in terms of really connecting. My daughter talks about that a lot. You avoid your peril of getting the message out. So one part of this new enthusiasm has been a kind of collective realization or moment of attention on the ways in which Republicans are not only a threat, but to use your words, kind of weird. Yeah. You actually used that term back in February when you were on this show about gubernatorial candidates like Mark Robinson. The Harris campaign is now running with it. it, I feel sometimes there's this challenge, right? Because we've got to make sure people understand that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy, that what they're proposing is extreme and dangerous and something to be terrified of. At the same time, we want to

not allow that to build Trump up into some kind of a strong man figure, right? Because being strong, as DeVille Clinton famously said, being strong and wrong is better than being right and weak. So how do you think about putting those things together? No, that's exactly it. I think on big problems, climate change, homelessness and things, if it becomes just an aspirational goal, people don't understand the steps you can make to actually get rid of it. And that becomes then, they just kind of fade away and we don't get it done. You have to have touch points.

And the thing you're talking about is, as you lift this guy up, yes, he's a threat to global democracy and global peace, in my opinion. I think your constitutional rights are under threat. That becomes almost overwhelming, and it's not inspirational. And I think taking them down to what this is, this weird thing is not an insult. It's an observation. And people saying, well, Governor Walz came up with this. No, people are telling me this. My Republican friends are telling me this. Because when you look at it this way, who's asking for some of this stuff? Who's asking for healthcare to be taken away? Who's asking for birth control to be taken away? Who's asking? You picture some guys, they always do the, oh, the guy's sitting in Racine, Wisconsin in the bar. What's really concerning them?

I damn sure guarantee you it's not banning Animal Farm. They're talking about, God, it's too damn expensive to pay for childcare. Or I'd like to do this. So I think the thing is that this spell and you listen to him, there's nothing there. And it opens up a huge space. If you can shrink him, shrink the message, and then really start to focus on that. Because look, I say this all the time. Those folks that were at that rally in St. Cloud, they're not going to vote for me, but I'm going to make sure they get healthcare. I'm going to make sure the women who were at that rally are going to get access to birth control. And there were people there with signs that said Somalis for Trump. We're very proud of our immigrant population. We have a large Somali population here, but I'll be the guy making sure I'm pushing back on his Muslim

ban or the denigrating words he used against that community. I think you get it to where people are listening. And I want people to be very clear. I'm not talking about Republicans being weird. I'm talking about that dude. Just my point on this, he's making fun of Kamala Harris laughing. I got a bet out there and he'll never collect on it. He will not laugh in public. He's incapable of it. And that's just strange.

It is strange. Yes. The not laughing in public thing is so strange. Yes. What kind of a person never has an authentic moment of laughter in the public eye the guy's been in our faces for 50 years yes yes so how do you sense of it yeah picture and you tell me no matter how conservative you are that's somebody you're going to be around like i'm telling my team i'm you know i'm not i just keep pointing out that

why this guy why this guy you come home from work you throw the frisbee to your pup and he gets it he comes over you give your good boy a belly rub. Picture that guy doing anything normal like that. No way. No way. And I think when people start thinking about this, my family who are in this, they're concerned about taxes. Maybe you know what they don't want?

They don't want the public schools cut so you can give a tax cut to the wealthiest. There's a conservative mantra that has been taken over. And these, I'm just going to say it, these weird ideas of, you know, like J.D. Vance, the only people that can vote and benefit are people with kids. And then their kids are going to get a vote or whatever, and we're going to do all this. It's ludicrous. And I think what's happened is the spell's been broken. And now we need to step into it with some positive ideas. an affinity or an openness to Trump and to Republicans. How do you make sense of this shift amongst young men? And what's your pitch to bring these men back into the fold? Look, if it weren't so serious, Trump is funny. If he weren't involved in some of this, he's a

buffoon. And some of it is like, when he's doing his shark thing or whatever, I'm laughing, but this guy is a danger or whatever. And I think when you a young guy you're you're on the edge look it's a prefrontal lobe stuff there's some of that i was that guy man i know the glass house i lived in and you got this guy out here wild breaking the rules saying this stuff crazy all this it's attractive or whatever i think what you're seeing now is we don't have to be like that but we can give them something that's why you see tiktok with a younger generation. You see, you know, Vice President Harris engaging, understanding, listening. Look, I don't understand everything about Gen Z, but I love them. I guarantee you this dude doesn't.

And the Republicans, everything they're proposing is anti against them. This generation cares about their neighbors. They don't give a damn about race. They truly are much more inclusive. And they do care about climate change. So I think these young men are looking for something there. It's the Trump spectacle. Here's what I think is really getting him.

Kamala Harris is becoming a phenomenon. And that's what he was. And her politics are good and wrapped around that. She is starting to gain, and you're going to see that. It starts to shift. And the enthusiasm level amongst that age group is shifting hard. And they are gettable. They are gettable if we bring them back. Look, I coach these kids in football for years. They want to be part of winners. I'll tell you the fastest way to get them on there, they don't want to be with losers.

And that's my point with him. You're hanging with the wrong dude. So shifting gears, in the late 90s, you were teaching and coaching at Mankato. You volunteered to be the gay straight alliances, first faculty advisor as governor, you signed an executive order protecting the right to gender affirming care for trans kids. And you signed a bill outlawing book bands. My question is for being such a friend to the queer community, why don't you dress better? It is true. You got to have the ally that looks like this dude, the old white dude, but I'm proud of that work. Cause I look, I was the football coach and it was thing, you know, I'm proud of, I'm proud of the students there who understood that. I'm proud

that we were starting to get past this issue. And a lot of it was just, you know, just it's ignorance a lot of times. And we got through that. And so, yeah, I got to do better on this, but I, you know, I'm, know i'm trying i no i think it look i noticed this over the weekend there are people seeing you with you uh in your uh uh given a press conference and it's not clear whether you were this is not my joke whether you were gonna uh run for vice president or maybe fix a radiator uh listen uh but but but in all seriousness i do think that you know we talked about young men It does seem like attacking trans people, making this a debate about masculinity is a kind of way to kind of peel off some of these young men. That's why they kind of target trans people, scapegoat trans people, try to make this something about being against men.

What do you think about that? Yeah, that's that toxic masculinity. There's something about embracing this, about doing good. Look, I'm proud I played football, but I also helped do the set at the plays. There's being a well-rounded person and understanding you can do these things. It's about being part of your community. And the thing is, they try and do that. This is the thing, John, too.

They're all the tough guys at toxic masculinity. We used to have a trap shoot in Congress. We'd go out and we would shoot 25 sporting clay, 25 ski, 25 trap or whatever. I'd be top gun. I can shoot these guys. So I'd ride back on the bus. How does it feel to get outshot every year by a liberal gun grabber? Most of these guys had never been around guns. It's just like a persona. It's like they pick up that, look, you know it. I've been talking about JD Vance or whatever. That's not my small town. That's not where I was from. That's not how we talk.

And I think part of it is, is letting them know it's okay. You're right about round cars. I'm proud that I can do some things around a car, fix it or whatever, but there's a whole wonderful, you know, rainbow of things that people can do. But I do think you're right that it's targeting. They turn scapegoats into punchlines. You know, they make people scapegoats. We need to embrace, and that's what

we've done. And it's okay. But that toxic masculinity is a scary thing. So let's say you're on a debate stage with, say, J.D. Vance, and he accuses you of being a big government liberal who's attacking our families, making life worse for our families, doesn't share our values, doesn't care about families like yours. What do you say to him? Yeah. First of all, it was up to him. I wouldn't have a family because of IVF and the things that we need to do reproductive. My kids were born through that direct, you know, that way. And also I make sure that I'm the guys and our folks are investing in prenatal care. We're the ones that are there for universal pre-K. We're the ones that are providing school meals at this.

I'm not going to back down one bit on this whole family values thing and it's us. That construct that he's putting out there is absolutely untrue. We're making it more affordable to have children by having paid family medical leave so that you can go home when your kids are sick and take care of them. Or if you're a dad, I don't have to go right back to work five days later after my wife had a C-section because our insurance wouldn't pay for it. We're boosting those things up. There's nothing pro-family other than having women be incubators for their vision of this. And I don't know, once again, it's weird. I don't want JD Vance talking about my family. I certainly don't want him talking about my daughter or my wife. It's none of his damn business. But I said, the one thing is we need to talk about how we've invested in families. We have the most generous child tax credit. And it's what Vice President

Harris is proposing for the country that people are poor because they don't have money. And when kids don't have the money on the front end, all of the things that a chain reaction of can't learn, can't go on. So I'll challenge him on that. Where is J.D. Vance's pro-family? He's forcing people to have, you know, not be able to have medical care if they have a bad pregnancy or something. We need to stand in front of that. And again, you don't need me to give a sermon, but try and live one. Try and be decent. Try and help your neighbors. Try and invest in those kids. Before we go, I do want to talk to you about something that is quite depraved that you're not only involved in, but a huge proponent of, and that's the Minnesota State Fair.

Now, I'm actually coming to the State Fair this year. No way. I am actually dating a Minnesotan. And I wanted to ask you, first of all, is there any kind of dispensation or government-provided lactate that can be provided at various stations just for the safety of the people involved? And the amount of dairy and the rides you're putting in such close proximity to each other, what about safety? What about public health? Well, I'll go over and be there. You can get chocolate or regular, $1, $1, all you can drink. So you got to picture this, you're out there, it's 90 degrees, you can have unlimited amounts

of milk, and then you go do the slingshot. It's a rite of passage, but it's a good one. Now, one hard question here. I want to ask you about four different food options and one's got to go. One is no longer going to be available. All right. Here are your four choices. All right. Fried cheese curds.

I think we have a photo for you. The corn on the cob, that's famous. A bucket of sweet Martha's cookies served by the bucket and a pronto pup, which seems to me some sort of amalgamation of corn dogs, pancakes. No, different. Different. I'm team corn dog.

Cost me lots of votes, but I'm clearly a corn dog. You bailed me out on that one. I did. So I'm throwing the pronto pup and sticking the other corn dog. Wow. And now my understanding is the bucket of cookies it can't be closed until you've eaten several families worth of cookies yeah i can't and this is when there was a simpler time in 2018 i bought my bucket and the republicans i'll give them this old school republicans smart their booth

was right next to the sweet mar's booth, smart. And I bought one of these and I walked through the booth and nine out of 10 people took them, you know, like from me when guys, I'm not taking anything from you. And I'm like, oh, that's fine. And the lady next to me says, well, I'm not voting for him, but I'm taking the cookie. Sweet Martha's is the ultimate, is the ultimate bipartisan entry point. So yeah, I can't, you get about a dozen before you get to the bucket. That's sick. You people are sick.

We walk on water half the year. We have to do something. Governor Tim Walz, thank you so much for your time. Really great to talk to you. Thanks, John. See you at the state fair. Yeah, see you at the fair.

That's our show for today. Love it. And Stacey Abrams will be back with a new show on Wednesday afternoon. Wow. Really? We're going big for our guest host these days. Yeah, pretty exciting stuff. All right, everyone.

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