Pod Save America - "Impeaching to the Choir."

Episode Date: September 27, 2022

Republicans finally release a policy agenda for the midterms. Democratic strategist David Plouffe stops by to talk about the homestretch of the campaign and the second season of his podcast CampaignHQ. Then later, the guys rank the latest Republican antics in a new game called Q Tier. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. Bring some energy to that. Bring some energy. On today's show, Republicans finally release a policy agenda for the midterms. Our old boss, David Plouffe, joins to talk about the final stretch of the campaign. And we try out a new game called Q-Tier.

Q-Tier. Q-Tier. But first, check out this week's America Dissected, where Abdul talks to Malcolm Gladwell about the science and practice of public health. New episodes of America Dissected drop every Tuesday. There's also a brand new Wilderness episode out this week. I talk to undecided Biden voters in Pittsburgh about inflation, guns, abortion, the January 6th hearings, and what they think of the Pennsylvania Senate and governor's races. Any previews? Any hints? They like John Fetterman.

Who doesn't? They like John Fetterman. Who doesn't? They like John Fetterman. They don't like Dr. Oz. They don't like Dr. Oz. No. In fact, I think I've said this before, but like the reviews of Fetterman were better than I've ever heard from a focus group about a politician. Just from a political standpoint, maybe Dr. Oz should consider having a stroke.

Oh, yeah. And you have made. It's a different version of the same joke. The twist on that one is that it's good politics. All right, let's get to the news. With just about six weeks left until Election Day, Republicans have unveiled a vague policy platform they're calling a commitment to America.

Kevin McCarthy, the man who would likely become Speaker of the House if Republicans flipped the chamber, announced the plan with a big rollout that included a video meant to show scenes of america that was actually stock footage filmed in russia and a letter with a fake lincoln quote that was actually a lehman brothers ad yeah they also had footage from a kid in ukraine and a supermarket in europe so great work all around nailing it on the stock footage front i love when stupid shit like like that becomes a thing. Like who cares, but it's fun. It's the best.

Fake Lincoln quote. They always get in trouble with the stock footage. And the fake Lincoln. Look, I think we had a fake Lincoln quote. I was about to say, those without fake Lincoln quotes throw the first fake Lincoln quote. What happened? What was the quote? I can't remember what the speech was.

I remember. Wasn't it the one he told? Wasn't it right before the ACA? Yeah, that's right. It was, he went to the, remember he went to speak to members of Congress and he gave this really moving speech about courage and doing the right thing and passing affordable care. Most of which he ad-libbed. But he dug deep and he found the perfect Lincoln quote. And it was perfect in part because it was made up. It was a made up quote. Maybe that's what McCarthy took. Yeah. Anyway, so the agenda is mostly limited to four broad themes,

an economy that's strong, a nation that's safe, a future that's built on freedom, and a government that's accountable. Here's McCarthy with Elise Stefanik and Steve Scalise talking about the plan to a Fox News reporter. And they're doing it from where else? Pennsylvania Diner. Think about this. We're in Washington, not Washington, D.C.

We're in Washington County, Pennsylvania. Why? Because this plan is about all these people. We want an election to have a contrast. If they put their trust in us, this is exactly what we'll do. Hold our feet to the fire. And on the very first day, we're going to repeal 87,000 IRS agents. So they're not going after you.

We work for you. You don't work for us. They're in Washington County, Pennsylvania, Tommy. No, no, no. I'm issuing a verbal cease and desist. It's coming from me. It has the force of law because I did the very tired. We're in washington we're listening to

washington insiders in washington county iowa not washington dc in 2007 or 8 because from my perspective history begins with me and my political experience which which by the way was a hit on lovett's political mentor hillary clinton right she was listening to the lobbyists learn everything i know taught me all my tricks. Yes, I do like that it's like, hold my feet to the fire. The first sentence is simply not true. They cannot do anything that's in there. Even if it wasn't vague, even if it was written out, they can't do it.

And also their very first and most important agenda item is a lie. The first thing you need to know is that we're going to repeal something that is not happening based on a right-wing fever dream. And we're on it. This plan is about the people, the people here. It's a plan about people. One thing you have to understand if you haven't seen the video is that you have Steve Scalise, Elise Stefanik, and Kevin McCarthy sitting at a table in some sort of restaurant surrounded by what look like NPCs, just non-playable characters, standing in perfect silence with dull expressions on their faces,

watching these four people, one of whom is a Fox News reporter, in front of the same order from the diner. All of their napkins are still beneath their forks. The only person who looks interested in eating is Steve Scalise. And if you actually watch the video- He looks so hungry.

If you actually watch the video, his right hand is kind of twitching a little. He's like, can I go for my fork? Can I go for my fucking fork? At least Stefanik doesn't care about that. So Republicans are still favored to flip the House, and they're trying to make this election a referendum on Biden and the Democrats. Why do you think McCarthy did this, Tommy? And why do you think the platform is so vague? I mean, I think part of it is that there are no new ideas. And we all pretend that

Newt Gingrich's 1994 contract with America was some sort of game changing political document that led to Republicans winning tons and tons of seats. I also bet these guys actually want to have something to point to and say, this is our plan, not that Rick Scott thing that is really, really politically damaging. Because Rick Scott wants to raise taxes on half the country and potentially cut Social Security and Medicare, which seems like a bad idea. I think it is like- Certainly not a popular one. Yeah, not a popular one. It is smart.

If you're going to do something like this, you roll it out now, late September when people are paying attention. I think it's probably useful for normal candidates to have something to point to and say, this is the agenda that we're going to work on as a party. I do think it's very funny that the B roll included Russian oil rigs. It's like kind of too perfect. But yeah, look, the problem for McCarthy though is Newt Gingrich could command the media and news cycle as an opposition leader in ways that McCarthy cannot. He can only dream of, in part because Trump is still out there flailing away and dominating the news, you know, on Fox News, at least. Newt Gingrich could also control his caucus in a way that McCarthy clearly can't. I mean, Newt Gingrich's contract with America was like a specific set of bills that

they were going to introduce. McCarthy doesn't have any of that. He has a parent's bill of rights in there, but he doesn't even say what's in there. This isn't like a specific, and the reason he couldn't include a list of bills that he was going to introduce if they win the House is because he can't get the fucking crazies in his caucus, although the far right part of the caucus and the rest of the caucus to agree on anything. And and if they could make he can't. And if they could, it would be extremely unpopular where they are is extremely unpopular. Being strong and safe and free or popular, banning abortion and cutting taxes for the rich and stripping the social safety net is not popular. The other piece of this is they have this sort of vicious circle, which is because their policy agenda has been so unpopular, they run on grievance and vilifying Democrats. And then the base now has sort of this taste for blood. So that's all they can really run on. And so this is vague for the same reason the Republicans didn't have a platform in 2020. The Democratic Party, for all of its many, look, the Democratic Party is perfect. That's the most important thing. I always say that we have a policy agenda. The Republican Party doesn't really have a true motivating policy agenda. They have an enemies list. And that's really that's the thing that galvanizes their base.

So you have to make this set of vague platitudes so they can get back to doing what they want to do, not enough detail to potentially split their party or give Democrats fodder for attacks. That's what he was trying to navigate there. Especially because if they have a slim majority, and we all hope they don't, this is not Kevin McCarthy giving speeches about health care policy. This is Matt Gaetz pulling Kevin McCarthy on a leash, like the gimp in Pulp Fiction. It's Jim Jordan impeaching Biden for one count of having a son that likes Coke and two counts of not building the wall. It's,

it's Elise Stefanik going full brothers of Italy. It's Lindsey Graham. It's Lindsey Graham passing a nationwide abortion ban and having the first erection in his life he didn't pay for. That's the future. That's the commitment. Leave that in. You know what I'm saying? I can hear Andy laughing in the other room.

That's it. Is she laughing or is she crying? Find B-roll of that. That's what they should be promoting. Find B-roll of that. Don't find B-roll of that. You know what else I love? I went to their website and you could click on things and expand the policy positions out and you go to the next issue.

But the website is an infinite loop because it'll just take you back around. I was very frustrated trying to do research for this podcast. It's bullshit all the way down, boys. So Republicans have offered some details. You guys heard McCarthy talk about firing IRS agents in that clip. As you pointed out, Lovett, that is a lie. Can we just pause on that? Let's do it. Actually, the mainstream media coverage, even the New York Times story was very annoying. The 87,000 is the amount of IRS staffers that might be hired over a decade. That includes

replacing people who will quit because we're talking about a decade. A lot of it is like IT support, people answering the phones to help you out if you have questions, stuff like that. It's not like 87,000 new auditors start on day one. It's a decade's worth of hiring. Not at all. It's so stupid. But here's, I was, I had the same reaction. And then I was like, you know what?

We can't do our typical like liberal fact check about the IRS. No, this is our liberal fact check. Excuse me, nerds, you're wrong about the 87,000. Why would you set Tommy up to debunk it? like why would you why would you set tommy up to debunk it and then i did the same thing i was mad at myself i was mad at myself you're mad at yourself we did this on stage at a live show a couple months ago you know what time is a good example of hurt people hurt people uh so what should we do john if we can't tell we can't

fact check these people this is what's getting lost but it's getting lost they are mad that joe biden and democrats made it harder for rich people to cheat on their taxes and they of course they want to make sure that the irs can't catch rich tax cheats that's what they that's it that's all it is right the lot forget that right forget the don't get involved in their 87 000 bullshit well they sort of it's a it's actually like they're saying don't hire people because they're coming after you the whole's actually like they're saying don't hire people because they're coming after you the whole reason we need to fix this is because these people have spent years gutting the irs so that it only targets middle class not enough for rich people to get tax cuts for republicans now they want people to actually break the law and and not have to pay

taxes if you're rich if you're rich i love this plan um anything else you guys found especially notable in there and in terms of the details that were on the website that was an endless loop? I mean, it was perfectly vague. I don't really expect more from someone like McCarthy in this case. I do like when you get a foreign policy section, they're like, okay, here's our four bullet foreign policy section. One of the bullets is exercise peace through strength with our allies to counter increasing global threats. Like, ah, that's solved. One of the four education bullets was recover lost learning from school closures.

Like, that's a small, easy task that could be handled by the Congress. I guess privatization of public schools. Right. It's written so vaguely and with so many bromides that you actually can go through it and circle all the things that Democrats are for. One note would be that it only plays just the, it gives the shortest of shrift to their most important policy agenda, which is banning abortion, which is they've included a line that says they will protect the life of the unborn and

their mothers. And it's interesting that they include, it's clearly a, even in that brief sentence, you feel their fear that they've had a lot of overreach on abortion. Yeah. You can learn from what they don't mention, which was that's the abortion piece. And then interesting to me how much they talked about fentanyl as part of the immigration story. I think that's a huge issue all across the country that doesn't get covered that much. It doesn't seem like they mentioned repealing the ACA. I don't know how new that is, but it's not noted. They're going, they are going after it. Okay. Well, they'll get there eventually. I didn't know how new that is, but it's not noted. They are going after it. Okay.

Well, they'll get there eventually. I didn't see student debt forgiveness in there despite all the protestation. The core attacks, though, were crime, schools, border chaos, and then, you know, like flipping out about women's sports is their other pillar here. Yes. So that was in there, the ensure that only women can compete in women's sports. Not much detail, but make sure that that's in there. Not a lot of detail about foreign policy, the five words that you said. But they made sure they had the detail about women's sports. No detail, but no detail anywhere, but no enemy missed.

Right, exactly. What's interesting to me is that they had that one page and then they had the website. And then they all did some interviews on Friday. And during the interviews, some more of what they're looking for, what they're going to try to do started leaking out. So they're still going after the Affordable Care Act. They also want to block Medicare from being able to negotiate for cheaper prescription drugs. They want to undo. Which is the opposite of what their plan says.

Incredibly popular provision in the Inflation Reduction Act. McCarthy also said, we're going to find out where the origins of COVID started. Their whole oversight thing, the oversight section is a little fever dream. Yeah, that's going to and that's we should talk about that in a second. But how are you guys feeling about the Republican plan to fight inflation? I thought that was a robust. Yeah, it's basically summarized as cut government spending, which, you know, might have made sense, I think, during the COVID era stimulus checks that they all were for back in the day, but doesn't make sense anymore. And then it's

pro-growth tax policy and deregulation policy, which as long as we're being nerds, if that's acceptable to you, John, that would lead to more inflation. Budget cuts and tax cuts, that's all they got. Basically, the whole inflation platform is saying Biden did it. It's also just like, it's our one economic policy that we've had for the last 50 years. Tax cuts for rich people paid for by cutting health care and education. They're still playing the hits. Trump in the streets, Paul Ryan in the sheets. To this day, they got nothing else. They got nothing else. Data for Progress did a poll of

voters in eight swing states, by the way, and they found that the Democratic messages on Social Security, health care and taxes are the most convincing reasons for voters to vote for Democrats over Republicans. This is a new new poll that they had out. So it just goes to show you why they're trying to cover up the Social Security, Medicare stuff, why they're trying to reframe the Rick Scott's a real Rick Scott. But this thing is written so vaguely that this does not necessarily contradict the Rick Scott sunsetting plan. Exactly. Does not contradict it. No.

That's still active. And they've all taken votes that line them up with the Rick Scott plan. Right. All right. So Republicans won't be able to pass this agenda so long as Joe Biden is president. But they will be able to launch all kinds of investigations, including impeachment proceedings against Biden or his cabinet. Here's South Carolina Republican Nancy Mace on Meet the Press this weekend. Do you expect an impeachment vote against President Biden if Republicans take over the House?

I believe there's a lot of pressure on Republicans to have that vote, to put that legislation forward and to have that vote. I think that is uh something that some folks are considering wow again i'm someone who wants to yeah i want to follow the constitution it's really important oversight's important but if these impeach biden votes come up how are you going to vote again i'm going to read how that bill is filed what's in it what evidence there was i didn't vote to impeach the former president of the United States because I felt like due process was stripped away. I will not vote for impeachment of any president if I feel that due process has been stripped away

for anyone. What a fine public servant. You guys think it's weird that Chuck didn't ask what Republicans might impeach Biden for? I just skipped that one important question. Would you vote for impeachment? For fucking what? That's like a really big part of it. It's irrelevant. Look, I don't know if your history buffs listening, but that's a big part of it. Why? This is, you know, like this is not a Chuck specific problem, though. I mean, like the Republican cynicism around impeachment is so baked into the political cake and expectations for Republicans that they're like, yeah, well, Democrats impeached Trump twice.

So Biden should expect to be impeached at least once. Why did he hold up military aid to Ukraine? Did he, you know, send a mob into the Capitol? No, whatever. Who cares? Let's not even get into it. Ted Cruz basically admitted this on his podcast. He was like, yeah, he'll be impeached, whether it's justified or not. Yeah. It's just revenge. They will find their reason they've got they've been floating afghanistan they've been floating the border and they they obviously are not fans of hunter biden go for it impeachment very unpopular turns out with swing voters i was going to say it doesn't seem too politically astute for republicans at this stage in the midterm campaign to openly talk about impeaching joe biden i think yes like the the mega base that they're desperately trying to cling to wants blood and reciprocity. So I think this is a message

targeted at those people. I think you talk about this on Fox News and right wing radio and everywhere else. But no, I mean, I don't think this is your like message for swing voters that you're going big with on ads. Yeah, it's sort of a preview of coming attractions that they do win the House because they're in that Washington Post story about the Freedom Caucus basically saying we're going to want a whole bunch of changes that give us more power if we're going to ever vote to make Kevin McCarthy speaker. And his only response is, can we just do this after the election, please? Right. That's like, yeah, they might say it to their base, but they don't want to talk about this at all. And I hope they get asked about it more. And I think Democrats should incorporate it into their message. And I hope they get asked about it more. And I think Democrats should incorporate it into their message. Like you give Republicans the House. You think that they're going to that they're actually going to take care of inflation. They're going to do anything that you want to be done. No, they're going to protect Donald Trump, run is, you know, saying that Trump was unfairly targeted by the FBI.

COVID origins and then big tech censorship. So it's all very Trump adjacent grievance stuff. Investigate Fauci. Investigate. We should get to the bottom of that. We should get to the bottom of that guy. We should investigate. Bring, you know, Hal Garland down there. Kevin McCarthy already said, you know, clear your calendar to Merrick Garland because he had the audacity to try to, to try to retrieve the nuclear secrets that Trump stole and stashed in his fucking beach house. So they're going to do that for a couple of years. You shouldn't clear his calendar.

Propose some fucking dates. We're trying to run a government. Honestly, the most annoying asks, do you have time for lunch in the next six weeks? You know, you propose, you send me the invite,

send the dates and then I'll say, I'm busy. I'll either say accept or I'll say time for lunch in the next six weeks? You know, give me a date. You send me the invite. You send the dates and then I'll say I'm busy. I'll either say accept or I'll say tend to. Do you have time for a quick call? About what? About what? Could it be an email? Kevin. So, Lovett, you mentioned that there was,

there's only one reference to abortion in the platform, a promise to protect the lives of unborn children and their mothers. This is, of course, after Lindsey Graham proposed a national abortion ban just a few weeks ago. And after just this weekend, when a judge in Arizona ruled that an 1864 law in that state that bans nearly all abortions must now take effect because of the Dobbs decision. Republicans in competitive races clearly do not want to talk about abortion. Is that a plausible strategy at this point? Plausible strategy. I'm sure that's what they'll try to do. It's our job to make sure it doesn't work and remind everyone everywhere all the time that every that that abortion is on the ballot in every congressional race. Abortion is on the ballot in every statewide race

and drive home the point that they can try to moderate all they want in the three weeks before an election. But they are on the record for the year, five years, 10 years, 20 years before. And no matter what they say, no matter how they try to align to their actual agenda, their goal is to ban abortion everywhere without regard for the health of women and pregnant people. That's it. And this is especially true now in Arizona, which has some of the tightest and most competitive midterm races in the country. Tommy, what do we know about where the candidates, the major candidates are on this issue in Arizona and how this ruling might change the race?

I mean, the ruling in Arizona just put into place an abortion law that mandates two to five years in prison for anyone who provides abortion services. So Blake Masters was incredibly anti-abortion. He just scrubbed his website though. So we don't really know anymore. It's all a big mystery now. Yeah. And everything disappears on the internet. Carrie Lake is also a right-wing loon, although until recently she was an Obama supporter. So, you know, I think the job is to tie these candidates around this decision and make a very compelling case. The hard part is going to be when they all try to pull a DeSantis and change the conversation to immigration, crime, inflation, and manufacture a caravan narrative with Fox News. And that's the fight.

And one other piece too is just, this is not perspective anymore. It's already happening, right? This is already happening. People are already having to leave states to get healthcare women with issues unrelated to being pregnant or being unable to get the treatment and care that they need in states that have put in place bans. So it's here. They are getting exactly what they want. They can't pretend they're not.

It's not for the future. It's now. I think in the Pennsylvania governor's race, one thing that's really hurt Doug Mastriano, aside from being a fucking lunatic, is we say abortion's on the ballot everywhere. In Pennsylvania, Doug Mastriano, aside from being a fucking lunatic, is we say abortions on the ballot everywhere in Pennsylvania. Doug Mastriano is governor. He signs an abortion ban on day one, full complete abortion ban. If he's not, if Josh Shapiro is governor, abortion remains legal in Pennsylvania, right?

Like it's that simple. Arizona now, Carrie Lake and Blake Masters are sort of in that position in Arizona. Blake Masters tried to erase the website even though he has called he does his own web it stuff yeah he's yeah no he does not use squarespace um yeah he has called abortion demonic he wanted a constitutional amendment to ban abortion these are that's how extreme it was carrie lake said you know this weekend in response to this she said oh i'm i'm pro-life and she started attacking uh katie hobbs for saying she's like oh well she's saying that if you have a if you have a miscarriage that that that's just confusing it with abortion care. Well, it's like, you know what? All the abortion clinics in Arizona are shutting down now.

So health of the mother, life of the mother, whatever it may be, women are not going to have access to abortion. You know, it's nearly identical an abortion and the care you have to receive after miscarriage. It's the exact same fucking thing. So do not try to let anyone fuzz this up ted cruz was doing the same thing over the weekend trying to say that oh we're all for the health and life of the mother we would never do that well when abortion access is banned everywhere and a doctor has to fucking call a lawyer before giving a woman care because they're not sure if it's within the letter of the fucking random law that was written 100 years ago yeah re-upped

in 1906 right with the lawyer could get two to five years by the way doug mastriano that's your question of um can they avoid talking about this issue i mean that's a guy who is just running something interesting like an off the grid campaign where he doesn't talk to any mainstream media no he just does like the q anon variety hour on twitch or whatever doesn't get a lot of folks uh coming to these rallies either 50 people five zero showed up at his event't get a lot of folks coming to these rallies either. 50 people, 5-0, showed up at his event. Not raising a lot of money.

Over the weekend. But that is interesting. You know, and I, when I did this focus group in Pittsburgh, I talked to Rebecca Katz, who's John Fetterman's senior advisor,

and Malcolm Kenyatta, who ran against Fetterman in the primary. And I was asking them about, you know, is Josh Shapiro, do you think, is he going to go big on

democracy as a theme because of Mastriano and Mastriano wanting to overturn the election? And they were like, no, I think the easier play here is abortion. They're like, you don't have to, you have to be creative about it. He wants to ban abortion in the state of Pennsylvania completely. That is unbelievably unpopular. And if he just runs on that issue the whole time, he could definitely win. And sure enough, he's ahead in the poll. So we shall see. All right. When we come back, we'll talk to our old pal, David Plouffe.

That's where you do all your podcasting? I see you got a fancy mic there. Uh, yeah. Well, I used to do it in a closet. I have an office I share in the Presidio with some guys, but the Wi-Fi was spotty. So I found this nice spot in my house. It's pretty quiet, unless my dogs bark. Yeah, well, that's nice. If they do, I'll shoot them today.

This is a real podcast, so we can have no dog barking. We literally have a dog right here that might bark, so you're good. At any moment. Just go put him on your roof. A Romney joke? All right, yeah. For Pluff?

No context for a Romney joke. I love that. Can we make those now? I don't know if we can make Romney jokes. Oh, yeah. What? Yeah, no. Have you heard Dan lately?

Hey, David Pluff, question for you. Are you ready to apologize for the fact that trying to beat Mitt Romney destroyed democracy? Oh, my God. the fact that uh trying to beat mitt romney destroyed democracy why didn't you why didn't you realize when you were running a campaign against mitt romney that what you should have done is just waved a little white flag and shown him how to get into the white house because otherwise republicans would decide then that they were fucking fascist he's just wow just trying to bait pluff aren't you we should keep that in and do the intro and we should roll from you should keep that in yeah we're keeping it in well perfect on the pod today in case you didn't know former obama campaign manager and senior white house advisor our old

boss and current podcast colleague the first few episodes of his new season of campaign hq are out now david pluff welcome back to the pod well john i never thought we'd be referred to in that one podcast call i don't consider us podcast competitors that was the that was the dream in 2008 pluff that's why we that's why we signed up we knew that someday we'd be podcast i'm in a single a i mean but you know the minor leagues are good it's lovely ballparks and you know yeah you get to know the fans yes exactly exactly you get invited on hacks on tap once in a while sweet gig if you can get it yeah all right pluff we're six weeks out uh how you feeling about these midterms well john i know you're on the polar coaster i know time and john try and keep you

off that pluff it's hard john literally turned to me and love it the other day and he said it's getting getting chilly outside some fall weather gonna be some polls soon and he wasn't that's word for word he wasn't it's getting chilly out it's rubbed his hands together we're gonna get some polls soon disturbing image i did say that it was so sweet it was like it was like you got to see him as a little boy for a moment anyway sorry are you in your 40s yet, Favreau? I am, unfortunately. Oh, he's deep in them. This is what happens.

You can barely see 40. Yeah, you get excited about polls in the winter. You know, these didn't happen to you in the 20s. But I, listen, I think that a couple of things can be true. The environment's as good as any Democrat had any right to hope, you know, probably four or six months ago. And this is still a super challenging election. So we always talk about the outliers in off years. 2002 was one when Bush was president in the aftermath of 9-11-98, which was a result of,

you know, a Republican overreach and impeachment. But let's remember, even in that election, which is a great Democratic election, we won zero Senate seats and won five House seats. Let's remember, even in that election, which is a great Democratic election, we won zero Senate seats and won five House seats. So this is going to be really hard. You've got where the party in power, I think about 25 percent of Americans say the economy is in good shape. But they're balancing that off with, you know, Dobbs abortion, the fight for democracy, the fact that the Republican brand and many Republican candidates are just shit awful. So you put that all together. And, you know, I think you might have said six months ago, we wouldn't have had a chance to hold the Senate and we'd lose 50 House seats. You know, now it looks like we have a chance to hold the House or at least keep those gains very minimal so we can win it back in 24. And

the Senate looks quite plausible. And a lot of these governor's races look positive. That being said, it's going to be super close. We shouldn't kid ourselves. Here's the thing about the polar coaster, John. When one party is doing well in polls, and that's tended to be us the last six years, but it's been Republicans in other cycles, you're at your ceiling in polls. You're like 49, 48, and the other opponent's at 44. Well, they're going to get most vote back. So what matters is 100% of the vote and how does that get allocated? And my sense is Republicans are going to gain from that dynamic. But right now, in most states, particularly in the Senate, I'd rather be us than them. And that's a pretty remarkable thing to say. So David, I listened to the last three episodes of Campaign HQ. You went

deep on Pennsylvania and Nevada and Georgia. The weirdest race, if we can start there, I'd say is Pennsylvania, because you've got Fetterman and Shapiro running like pretty traditional, not traditional campaigns, like Fetterman is not a traditional candidate. They're running a really smart digital campaign, but they're running campaigns. They're running TV ads. They're doing interviews and stuff. You have Dr. Oz, who's a weirdo, but he's running a recognizable race and he's going to spend money and he's going to talk to the press. And then you have Doug Mastriano, the Republican candidate for governor, who's just on Mars. Right. The guy is not running TV ads. He doesn't have any money.

He doesn't talk to mainstream media sources. And it's like he's running with kind of like a QAnon adjacent kind of weird strategy. You're someone who used to work on campaigns. You ran a million campaigns. How do you figure out how to run against that? Like this guy is running an off the grid strategy. You're trying to run a traditional strategy. Like how do they, how do they figure this out? Well, I think their digital and their social has been pretty, um, pretty smart and modern and not super traditional. I mean, so I think in that way, they've really run, I think a campaign, a lot of Democrats can learn from, um, Fetterman's now

getting back out on the trail. So that's the thing about that campaign. Your candidate was sidelined for a long time. So it's super challenging. So listen, what's an election? Election's about candidates and it's about messages and it's about timing. It's about so many things, as you guys know. But it's also about math.

How many votes do I need to win? Pennsylvania is a perfect example of what is it required to win? A Democrat, by definition, has to win the center of the electorate because there's more conservatives than liberals in Pennsylvania. And you've got to make sure you either win the turnout game or don't get followed. So I think Fetterman and Shapiro both in different ways are making appeals to the true swing voters that live outside of Pittsburgh, in those suburbs outside of Philadelphia, in the center part of the state

on Harrisburg, but also trying to motivate the base. So I think those two races may diverge a little bit. I mean, again, we can't believe a poll, but it does look like Shapiro may win that race. You're not going to Pennsylvania by 20 points, but he may win it by a margin. And the center race is likely to be a little bit more close. And so I think if you're the Fetterman campaign, you have to understand who are those voters, who actually is considering Shapiro and Oz, and what's the best way to tear them off Oz. That is probably the campaign within the campaign that's most important. And then of course, are you going to get the turnout of Philadelphia? And that affects both Shapiro and Fetterman. The one thing I'm sure that's going to happen again

is the Republicans are coming out. They're going to come out like zombies. They're coming out like a horde we should all be very afraid of. So that's the thing you just bake into the cake. We saw it in 16. We saw it in 18, despite what happened in the House. They had really good turnout in a lot of places, and we certainly saw it in 20. They're coming out in big, big numbers. And so that's the question.

And if you're a Fetterman, the thing they're very focused on trying to eat into some of these exurban and rural margins. Biden did a good job of that. So if you can lose these outlying counties by 65-35 rather than 75-25, that all adds up in a close race. So I think they're running a smart race. But I do think that those two races, if all the states you look around the country that are battleground states, that one has the potential for the most divergence. When I say most divergence, we're talking about 10 points. But is it possible that those races are not within two or three points of each other? It's possible. Fetterman is a uniquely good candidate. Dr. Oz seems to

be a uniquely bad candidate. And yet, I think everybody has been watching that race and saying, wow, Fetterman is the Fetterman campaign seems to be having a lot of fun. They're doing incredible things online. And what aspects of what they've been doing to just make their their campaign seem like a fun one to be a part of that you think other Democrats could be replicating, even if they're not going up against someone as conducive to mockery as Oz? Well, John, it's, I mean, you do have to be authentic to your candidate and campaign. I mean, so that's a lesson we've all learned, which is you just can't plug and play. So Fetterman seems to be someone, this kind of campaign suits him, you know? But I think one, they're not, you know, they don't focus group and test everything they do. They just go with

their gut. And what I love is it's probably a bunch of people, 22, 23, 24 saying, I think this is a good idea. And there's not a lot of friction to get that out in the ether. So I love that. So I think more campaigns have to be more comfortable with throwing an errant pass every once in a while. And I think to really be tough on your opponent, I mean, they've really gone at Dr. Oz's character, I think, in a really, really strong way. And I think they understand elections. I wish elections were about policy papers and distinctions on tax rates and how many people get health care and don't. That's not what politics is today. It's a performance, unfortunately. And I think they get that. Now,

of course, that's got to be undergirded by values and who you're fighting for and your biography and your story. But I think they understand that it's a performance and you've got to go out there every day and put your opponent on the defensive and have some fun. So again, I wish politics wasn't in that state in the year 2022, but it is. That's why when we think about who's going to run for president in 24 or 28, let's forget the resume or the paper. In a way, Obama changed that. Trump changed that. I'm still naive enough to think it should matter that someone should be a good president, but you don't have to have a long resume. When you think about all the Democratic candidates,

people say, particularly if Biden doesn't run or even if he does run in 28, we've got no bench. You look at all the people running this time, Tim Ryan, you know, Fetterman, Mark Kelly, Val Demings, you know, Stacey Abrams, you know, Beasley, all these people could run for president, whether they win their race or not, you know. And so I think that we have to understand that this is much more performance than policy. And that's just something the Republicans have understood, I think, much more consistently than we have. What do you think's going on in Nevada? Because I think of all of the Democratic incumbents who are up, I sort of worry about Cortez Masto the most. And I think she's a great candidate and running a good race, but it seems like that, and I listened to your interview with John Ralston, it sounds like that

state is sort of drifting away from Democrats a bit. You know, Biden sort of didn't really overperform Hillary in that state, unlike he did in almost every other state, competitive swing state. And I'm just not quite sure what's going on there. But what's your read on that race? Well, first of all, John, as it relates to 24, we should be very concerned about it. As you know, I know you probably spend a lot of time on the websites where you piece together the 270 electoral votes. And in a close election, Nevada plays a pretty critical role in a lot of those scenarios. And so yes, Nevada is trending in a challenging, I mean, we see Wisconsin's doing the same thing. Nevada's excited as we get about Georgia and Arizona as we should. And hopefully at some point, Texas will join that party. It's concerning. So I think that and there's no doubt that. Listen, I think the pandemic hurt the Nevada economy in an outsized way.

I think you are seeing some some Republican gains with non-college voters of color there, particularly men, which is concerning. I'd say this, though. Laxalt is a shit candidate. He doesn't get the headlines that Walker gets or Masters gets, but this guy's got a long history. He ran for governor. He's not particularly popular. So I do think Masto has benefited in that candidate. But yeah, I mean, I think that she is someone, she's a first-term candidate. Nevada's got a lot of transient folks. It's not like she's got a deep relationship with a lot of people in that state, so I worry about that. I think the governor's race is going to be close as well. There's also three toss-up House races in that relatively small state.

with black voters, getting the right kind of turnout. You got to blow out Clark County, not just the city, but the suburbs. And then, you know, you've got Washoe County. You remember when we ran back in 08 and 12, that was one of the definitive swing counties in the country. It's now moved more blue, but that's been counteracted by some of those exurban rural areas, really, really turning deep, deep, deep red. So I think both of those races are sheer toss up. I think Cortez Masto got lucky that Laxalt's a candidate and it wasn't somebody who's kind of a fresher face. The other thing about Nevada is, I mean, the secretary of state there is an election denier. You've got other down ballot candidates for Republicans statewide who are election deniers. I mean, they've gone completely off the deep end there. And so it's concerning because,

I mean, I don't know, we don't know who's going to, you know, is it Biden, Trump, or there are other matchups in 24, but hard to believe Nevada won't be close. And so if we have that secretary of state on the Republican side presiding over the election, it gets even scarier. It's been interesting seeing the different strategies evolve in the major races in Georgia. Stacey Abrams has really embraced Biden. I think it's a little more of a nationalized race. She seems a little more comfortable sounding partisan. Senator Warnock is, he's not attacking Biden, but he's not clinging to him. He's emphasizing working with anyone, going anywhere, that kind of message. Do you think that those

strategy differences are born of necessity, given how they've been maybe defined in the states differently? Or are these differences in approach? Like, what did you take away from that? in a Southern state, uh, you know, certainly this is true in any battleground state. You have to be a little more careful. And again, I, I think, you know, we don't live in a, uh, a West wing episode where you can say the most liberal thing and voters genuflect and you win. This is still a really, really tough country. The Senate is stacked against us. The electoral college is stacked against us. So, uh, again, as you guys remember, you know, in presidential races, I mean, we win the popular vote with great regularity, but to win the electoral college, you have to win the middle and you have to do well enough on the base. And so I think if you're someone like Warnock

to appeal to those voters that got you there in the first place, of course, you're not going to trim your sails on the things you believe about, but you've got to talk about, I've worked with Republicans and you're not going to be the same flamethrower. So I think it is. I think with Abrams, the challenge is, and she's running a great race, obviously, and she's a hero to all of us, is Kemp is benefiting from the fact that Trump attacked him. There's just no question about that. I mean, Raffensperger may walk to, I mean, we have a great secretary of state candidate running against him too, but clearly he's benefited from this. There's a lesson there, by the way. I don't think many Republicans will take it. But if you stand up to this guy just a little bit and somehow you can survive your primary, the general electorate will reward you. have given Democrats sort of a target rich environment. If you were running a Democratic campaign right now, we've got six weeks to go. What would you be having your candidate talk

about every day? What would most of your ads be about? What would you zero in on? Well, John, that all depends on who you're running against and where the polls are and kind of what progress you're making against your vote goal or not. But I think campaigns have always had to be a balance between, and again, if you're an incumbent, you definitely need to make this a referendum, not a choice. But no matter who you are, open seat, challenger, incumbent, there's got to be a blend of here's what I'll do. Here's who I am. Here's who I'm fighting for.

And again, policy secondary to the values, the policy that supports that. You always did a great job, all you guys, in all your communication and understanding that when you were writing releases and speeches. So you've got to do both. There's got to be positive out there. There's got to be comparative and there's got to be rip roaring negative. Like you just got to paint the picture of what will happen if this person gets elected specifically. And then generally their party takes control. Democracy's probably over. You know, women are going to lose even more health care rights. They'll try and ban abortion on the federal level. They'll cut taxes for the wealthy, even as we're losing jobs in what looks like to be a recession.

Like you got to paint the picture. And none of that is gilding the lily because, you know, the evidence is there. But again, if you're managing a campaign, it's it's there's dials. How do I get to the number of votes I need to get to? And a lot of that's geographic breakdowns, demographic breakdowns, but it's a blend of making sure you're winning enough true swing voters and they still exist and making sure every race I ran, you tried to overestimate your opponent. They're going to turn out more voters than we think. So if our model says they're going to have 100 voters turn out, let's assume they turn out 110. Can we beat that? So that's the challenging thing. Now, we have seen candidates

throughout history in our party be able to have the same message that can both motivate and persuade swing voters and excite the base. And so I think what I would do in the close of a campaign is just all that matters is my vote goal. And maybe you do a little more persuasion because you're feeling better out the base, or maybe not, or maybe it's 50-50. But also to put your opponent on the defensive. A lot of people decide to vote to volunteer at the end. A lot of people haven't even checked into these elections, even though ballots are starting to go off. So timing is important. So you want to make sure you you've left some good moments here for the end so you can close in a really, really strong way.

I mean, I think that's one of the challenges. If you remember back in 16, the last debate ended so early in that presidential race. Hillary had like three weeks. And, you know, I think that was a long way to the finish line. Yeah. Plus, you had James Comey jumping out of a trash can. Jimmy C. So, you know, you talked about the environment being tough. And yet we've had a few places where there are these glimmers of hope. You had New York 19. You had that vote in Kansas around abortion access. What lessons do you draw from those surprising wins on abortion and how it

should play and what lessons don't you draw from it? Well, listen, those are actual elections, not polls. So I think we should all pay a lot of attention to him. And, you know, that should make us feel optimistic. So here, the Kansas election was only about abortion. So lesson one is to the extent your race can be about abortion more than anything else, that's a good thing. So I would keep that front and center with great ferocity. And turnout was pretty strong. So I think that doesn't mean you at all rest on your laurels. But as you're thinking about what kind of turnout you can get, whether that's a House race or Senate race or governor's race, I think you should be looking at the outer edge of what's of what's possible. So, you know, but not every race is no race is only about abortion. But listen, if you're running for the Senate, every state that has a competitive Senate race is at least two thirds pro-choice. Every state, no matter what, like Blake Masters is

erasing his fucking stuff on his website, who cares? This was his position. And if he gets elected, the first bill he's going to vote on is to ban abortion federally. And that's the other thing. This law in Arizona that just got greenlit, that could make the difference in governor's race, secretary of state race, we have another caravan, right? Or another DeSantis, you know, sort of like immigration specific stunt. And they try to change the message to the border and crime. Like what would you do or what would you advise people to do when that happens for how to manage those closing weeks? Well, first of all, not to listen to people in my generation, because we're like out of touch with how you communicate today. That would be my first example. But I'd say this. History is important here. I think our party, for the most part in the media, thinks Republicans are geniuses. Let's remember, the caravan did not work. That was 2018.

What was 2020? There's going to be MS-13 people camping out in your backyard, raping your family members. That didn't work either. So I think we should be careful about assigning too much value to their stunts. So I would just execute your game plan. And there's a lot of things that you can crucify every Republican candidate on. And so keep that front and center. And again, all these campaigns have plenty of money. So you can communicate the message you want to communicate to who you want to communicate it to. Very different than when you're in office, when you're much more at the whims of the

press story. So I think you've got your game plan. It's kind of like a football coach who comes in with their first 20 plays. You know what you're going to do those last three or four weeks. And it just doesn't mean that you can't react to an outside event. But for the most part, particularly as it relates to your advertising and your content and what you're driving on the ground, you just got to stay focused on that. So there'll be something.

We know that. But again, we think that all this stuff has worked so well in the past. What was 2012? Remember, Obama's going to cut Medicare. And they get all these plaudits from pundits about how brilliant they are putting Democrats on the defensive. And generally, it hasn't worked. Yeah, yeah.

Don't freak out. Stick to the game plan. That's good advice. David Plouffe, thank you so much for joining us and for your wisdom. And everyone go check out Campaign HQ. It's a fantastic podcast. Thanks, guys. After you're done with a few crooked pots.

Yeah, you got to get through that whole library. Yeah. You know, that's like a day. You have extra time. So once you're done with Monday, then you can download stuff on Tuesday, yes. Thanks, Plop. Thanks, Plop. Great to be with you guys.

Good to see you. All right. Talk to you soon. Okay. Okay, before we go, one of our intrepid producers, Olivia Martinez, is here in studio to host a new game the team came up with today. Olivia, take it away. What's up? I'm Olivia, a producer here at Crooked, and I'm the Deputy Chief Make the Guys Play Games on the Show officer here on Pots of America.

Who's the chief? Hallie Kiefer. She's hilarious. Shout out to Hallie. Today, I'm here to host a new game we've developed called Q-Tier. Shout out to Elijah for this awesome idea. Here's how it works. I will give you an unhinged conservative quote, and you tell me what tier that quote belongs on. Here are the tiers, which we also have up on the screen in studio for you. All right, bottom tier. In our D tier, we have borderline normal. Going up a level in unhingedness

is C tier, your uncle's Facebook page. B tier is Fox News Addict. A tier is InfoWars supplement users. And finally, our God tier, the goat tier, the Q tier. All right. But here's the thing. In order for us to move on, you have to agree on where every single one of these quotes should go. Oh, all three? Yeah. We're trying to get consensus. This is like an early 2000s Homeland Security threat level vibe.

Sure. I like it. That's what I'm going for. Yeah. Great. And we're ranking the quotes, not the person. Just this one specific incident from each person. So try to just not think about the person in your rankings.

Hate the sin, love the sinner. All right. Ready? You ready to play? Yeah. On Friday, Tudor Dixon made fun of the failed kidnapping attempt against her opponent, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer. Here is a clip.

The sad thing is that Gretchen will tie your hands, put a gun to your head and ask if you're ready to talk. For someone so worried about being kidnapped, Gretchen Whitmer sure is good at taking business hostage and holding it for ransom. I mean, it's like somebody, it's like somebody, it's like somebody took a Chuck Schumer style soundbite, you know, and like put it through the sociopath machine. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it's really, cause it's, it's, it's, it's not pithy. Yeah. Yeah, because it's really, because it's pithy. Well, it's not pithy. It's cheesy.

It's cheesy. It's cheesy, but also evil. Yes, it's evil. It's more evil than like, we guess you're getting squeezed at the pump. Well, I'm going to squeeze the government right back for you. But it's about a kidnapping.

But it's about a kidnapping. I feel like that's Fox News addict. Yeah, I agree. I think it's B tier. I would say B tier. Okay, yeah. Does anyone have a... I would have said A or B. I think it's agree. I think it's B tier. I would say B tier. Okay, yeah. Does anyone have a- I would have said A or B. I think it's B.

I think it's B. It's so early in the game. I don't want to- I think it's B. I think it's B. I don't want any Q inflation. She doesn't actually call for a kidnapping. But the name Tudor Dixon, it does a lot for me.

It's tough. Yeah. It's tough. That alone could be its own thing. It's a B. It's a B. A B. B tier.

Okay. All right. Great job on consensus. Thanks, Olivia. All right. Don't patronize us. Number two, Twitter baddie Maggie Haberman has a new Trump book coming out called Confidence Man. That's another name we can talk about.

How dare Maggie report what she hears. Stop doing that. She previewed the book in The Atlantic today by recounting a conversation she had with Trump about January 6th. The former president apparently told Mike Pence, Mike, you have a chance to be Thomas Jefferson or you can be Mike Pence. He chose to be Mike Pence. That's so funny. How cute is

it to tell Mike Pence to throw out the Constitution all the election of 1800? Huh. Hmm. Hard one. Well, you know, God, have we we is everything been normalized much like the resistance it's got to be an eight year well it but it's sort of like it's it's it's like you could have been thomas jefferson evil interpretations of the constitution have been used by others to great effect wow okay you lost me over here let's all right fine i'm okay

with a i guess i'm okay with A. I guess I'm okay with A. Yeah, I don't feel great about it. I don't love it, but it's fine. A. Can I ask how many of you know what happened in the collection of 1800? We do. It's pretty fuzzy.

Pretty fuzzy. You let us know if you do. Pretty fuzzy. I'm just going to be honest. I know everything about it, but I don't really want to talk about it right now. Let's keep going. Okay, cool. I actually was just wondering which one of you was the biggest history buff.

I thought it would be Tommy. No. No? No. Strike out. All right. of you was the biggest history buff. I thought it would be Tommy. No. No? No. Strike out. All right. Do you know? I don't.

Oh, I thought you were going to tell us. No, sorry. Number three. So much for informing people. Yeah. Ohio House candidate J.R. Majewski recently got caught lying about his military service. It's a no-no. He ran a Facebook ad identifying as a combat veteran and published a biography stating that his squadron was one of the first on the ground in Afghanistan after 9-11.

Can I just say, I'm sorry to interrupt, but whenever I hear the name Majewski, I just think that that's a funny thing to say to a rabbi when you ask for a beer. Brewski Majewski. Put it on a shirt. It's what I think every time. Elijah is so small. You should not every time. Elijah is so small. You should not tell everybody. Elijah is so small on the screen, but I can see his little head shaking. Yeah, yeah, definitely shaking.

Pruski Majuski. In reality, Majuski was stationed in an airbase in Japan and then deployed to Qatar to load and unload planes. Right. How QAnon is it to inflate your military credentials? unload planes. How QAnon is it to inflate your military credentials? The reason I think this is borderline normal is because he got busted and the Republican campaign committees immediately pulled support. Let me tell you, Majewski was at Donald Trump rally a couple of weeks ago saying a whole bunch of things that would have got him into acute territory. But the inflating the military record is not one of them. Some of our favorite Democrats have done it, too. I said we range on to Kerry. Yeah, Majewski also stormed the Capitol.

He is a big fan of QAnon memes, and he had a giant Trump mural on his lawn. He looks like what would happen if a F-150 that has never been scratched was a person. Yeah, that's how he got famous, Olivia, right? He had the biggest Trump sign ever that he carved into his multi-acre lawn. So here's my question. I had a feeling you all would defend Majewski. So we're going to add a layer here. Interesting framing.

How QAnon is it to defend someone lying about their military service? Wow. Also borderline normal. Borderline normal. It's way too normal. That's what I get on instead. All right. You heard it here first.

By the way, I was kidding about John Kerry. Yeah, you're terrible. Both of you. Wait, actually, I don't remember. I heard it here first. By the way, I was kidding about John Kerry. Yeah, you're terrible. Wait, I actually, I don't remember. I thought he didn't. Didn't we decide that he didn't? All right. Next one. During the Truth and Liberty Coalition conference this month, Representative Lauren Boebert warned of the end times

and called for Christians to rise up. Here's a clip. The end draw near. We know that we are in the last of the last days, but it's not a time to complain about it. It's not a time to get upset about it. This is a time to know that you were called to be a part of these last days.

You get to have a role in ushering in the second coming of Jesus. Oh my goodness. That's a full cue to me. That's a top. End times. I disagree. Springsteen yells

rise up in a song and you guys give him a Grammy. You know? Oh, interesting. You libs. Tommy's gone full Republican. You libs, welcome us to the DNC. Look at this guy. Salt of the Earth, Tommy Vitor.

My city of ruin. With these hands. We got consensus here? Sure. That's the cutest thing I've heard today. Alright. And the last one. Donald Trump re-truthed an image of Jesus beckoning for you to follow him

with the caption, Jesus is the greatest, President Donald Trump is the second greatest. How cute is it to call yourself God? That Jesus graphic looks sort of in-law-y to me. He compared himself to Jesus. He said second.

It was very clear he said second. Yeah. I think politicians comparing themselves, politicians claiming that Jesus is on their side is pretty normal. But saying that you're the second greatest, like God is the greatest and you're the second greatest, we gotta go up for sure.

I think it's Fox News addict. That's where I think it goes. Just sort of an outrageous statement that can only be made okay by the conservative media infrastructure that defends everything he does and says. Yeah. Is that their argument? That's right. Yeah. That's right.

How about Brett Baer emailing the head of Fox News and asking for them to pull back the Fox News early election calls in Arizona? He's a straight shooter for you. He's a straight shooter one, though. Yeah. I mean, in fairness to Brett Ba you. He's a straight shooter one, though. I mean, in fairness to Brett Baer, they got a little lucky on that call. It was a little early. They were right.

It was a little early. It was a little early. I'm glad it worked out. I'm glad it worked out. In fairness to Brett Baer, put that on a t-shirt on his tombstone. Remember on Thursday when I defended Brett Kavanaugh? Well, we got another Brett defender on the pod today. All right, on to the next one.

Matt Gaetz offered a preview of the agenda ahead. You all just talked about saying I'm going to play a critical role as top member of the House Judiciary Committee, where we're going to be driving a lot of oversight and potentially even impeachments. How key is it to promise to investigate your political opponents for anything, everything, and nothing at all? That's Fox News tier. That's a Fox News tier to me. Yeah. It might be Uncle's Facebook. It's becoming borderline normal. Yeah. I'm going to say, I actually think that's right. I go down, go down. Uncle's Facebook.

Uncle's Facebook. Uncle's Facebook. Impeach Biden is all over Uncle's Facebook. All right. And our last one in response to New York Attorney General Letitia James announcing her investigation into Trump. He's been truthing that she is a racist. Oh, yeah. Which is, again, something all over your uncle's Facebook. Yeah, that's the most uncle's Facebook thing. Letitia James is the real racist is what Facebook exists to do. That's basically what the metaverse is. It's a bunch of uncles

saying, well, if I can't say the N-word, why do you get to say what you get to say? That's it. This is bringing out something in all of you. Yeah, but they're doing it in Roblox or something? Is that your point about the metaverse? How did you get the metaverse into this? Because that's what they're in there doing.

They're bottomless. The fact that also in the metaverse, nobody has genitals is also, I think, important to keep in mind. Where the fuck are you hanging out on my list? Yeah, how do you know that? It's just, that's what he put out there, those kind of floating torsos on the metaverse. That was your reaction, huh? To what? To the metaverse?

Well, it was just sort of like, it was like, oh, you're not a person anymore. Where are the genitals? Olivia, fantastic game. Great job. Thank you. Thank you to David Plouffe for joining us. Thank you to

Olivia and the team for their wonderful game, Q-Tier. We'll talk to you later. Here's the thing. The reason I think

they didn't put genitals in the metaverse is because they were so afraid of politics. They're like, we can't deal with gender in the

metaverse, so whatever. It's just made up. We're just a conspiracy theorist. What is it we're referencing when you say that all the pictures of in on mark zuckerberg's video were just sort of floating upper bodies oh because i think they don't want they also don't want people making funny images inside the metaverse you know so there's no one has legs i think there'll be plenty of funny business inside the metaverse probably half the point yeah isn't it i don't understand the difference between the metaverse and just second

life remember when there was second life and like and and then like john edger's like i got a metaverse. Probably half the point. Yeah. I don't understand the difference between the metaverse and just Second Life. Remember when there was Second Life and then like John Edwards was like I got a headquarters in Second Life. Come visit me in here. I'm having an affair

in here too. Somebody trashed his Second Life headquarters. This is still happening. Yeah. Let's have some nice

music under this. Cut us off. I hope people aren't listening. Cut us off. I don't care. Hot Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez.

Our senior producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein. Our producers are Olivia Martinez and Hayley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,

Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montuth. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.