Pod Save America - Kamala Dominates Trump at the Debate

Episode Date: September 11, 2024

In what may be the last huge moment of the campaign, Kamala Harris pulls off an overwhelming win: drawing a clear contrast with Donald Trump, presenting herself as a change candidate, and luring her opponent into getting angry, defensive, and confused. Jon, Lovett, Dan, and Tommy react to Harris's best moments, Trump's tantrums, the crazy pet-eating story, and Taylor Swift's big post-debate endorsement.

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. She has to drop out. What's Tim Walz doing? I'm Jon Lennert. Kidding. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. I'm Tommy Vitor. On tonight's show. In Springfield, they're eating the dogs,

the people that came in, they're eating the cats, they're eating the pets of the people that live there. So that was 30 minutes in to a debate that, I think by all accounts, including people on Fox News. Brit Hume. Brit Hume. Bridegroom. Kamala Harris won.

Oh yeah. It was, I think, the best debate performance against Donald Trump I have ever seen of any of the primary debates, any of the seven presidential debates he's participated in, I think she crushed him. This was the moment that people have been waiting for for nine years.

Yes. Right, he got, someone got on stage with him and took him down and he had no response. He got angry, towards the end he got kind of sad and it was exactly, it's what people, it's what everyone's been wanting, waiting for and Kamala Harris delivered tonight. Dan, do you think it was a mistake to rather than do actual debate prep for Donald Trump to do what he called policy sessions with Matt Gates and Tulsi

Gabbard? Maybe he didn't do enough policy sessions with Matt Gates and Tulsi Gabbard. Fatal mistake. Love it. What'd you think? The, there's a moment that we'll get to where basically Kamala Harris says, I'm not Donald Trump, I'm not Joe Biden,

I'm a new generation of leadership and the closest experience I've had. Remember when I had to go to the hospital after that show in Austin, and I was in a lot of pain. Oh yeah. And I was in a lot of, and they didn't know what was wrong, but they decided to give me morphine anyway. Yep. And there's this morphine And there's this moment where the morphine

kind of hits your bloodstream. Jesus Christ. And I just think she did great tonight. And- Just took the Chris Matthews thrill up his leg then. I'm just saying. Just fucking took it to another level. It was relief.

It was relief, sweet relief. They walked out on stage at the beginning and she went to shake his hand. She had to like go all the way over to his podium because he did not want to shake her hand. He looked scared. He looked scared. She looked in command.

And that was basically just symbolic of the entire debate because she was in control the entire time. I think what is most impressive about the performance and we'll get into all of it, is she went into this debate. She is the vice president of an incumbent administration I think what is most impressive about the performance, and we'll get into all of it, is she went into this debate. She is the vice president of an incumbent administration where the president of that administration

is quite unpopular and has been for some time. So there was plenty of fodder for Donald Trump and the moderators of the debate to put her on the defense. And it very easily could have been a debate where we came out of it and it was talking all about a lot of Kamala Harris's positions that she's changed over the years, this, that, the other thing.

And she just wasn't on the defense in 90 minutes of the debate. A very small percentage at the time was she was defending her positions. And what she did is she walked in there and realized that she had a playbook, she had the points she wanted to make, she had the attacks she wanted to level against Donald Trump, she had what she wanted to say about her own plans and her own policies and her

own positions and her own values. And she did that. And every time Donald Trump spoke and rambled, and we'll get to that, she didn't respond to different things that he said and she didn't chase him down the rabbit holes. She just sort of responded by doing what she had prepared to do and say. She had a plan. She for every single question, she went in there

and she baited the hook and she dipped it into the water and he took it every time. She baited him into talking about his crowd size. She baited him into unloading about his court cases and felonies. She even baited him into ranting about his court cases and felonies. She even baited him into ranting about COVID and ventilator production, like things that in no world should he be talking about.

And yeah, he looked like a maniac. So to keep things simple here, we're just gonna go more or less chronologically through the debate, pick out what we thought were the most important moments. Let's start with abortion. First big moment of the debate, pick out what we thought were the most important moments. Let's start with abortion. First big moment of the debate was an exchange about abortion where Harris jumped all over Trump because he was saying everyone wanted him to overturn Roe. And then the discussion

shifted to talk about a national abortion ban. Here's how it went. One does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree. The government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body. You want to talk about this is what people wanted? Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail, and she's bleeding out

in a car in the parking lot? A 12 or 13-year-old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term? They don't want that? Understand, if Donald Trump were to be re-elected, he will sign a national abortion ban. Understand, in his Project 2025, there would be a national abortion monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriages.

I'm not in favor of abortion ban but it doesn't matter because this issue has now been taken over by the state. But if I could just get a yes or no because you're running me, JD Vance has said that you would veto if you did come to your death. Well, I didn't discuss it with JD in all fairness. JD, and I don't mind if he has a certain view, but I think he was speaking for me, but I really didn't. Here's what I can't understand there. The Trump campaign and Donald Trump went through great lengths to say that at one point

he would veto a national abortion ban. And he basically in a national debate just decided to walk that back, make news on his abortion stance, which is something that they have been trying to avoid for some time now. What was going on there? I don't think he's on camera saying

I would veto a national abortion ban. I don't think he's ever said that. I think that the campaign has come up behind and cleaned up after something he said in the past. But he has studiously avoided being on camera saying that. He has said he would not sign one. Yeah. Because there's been this iteration of this

where the first answer was, it will never come to my desk. And then that was seen as insufficient. And then it was, I won't sign it. Right, he said I won't sign it. Right, and then the campaign has said, I didn't realize it was JD Vance, but the campaign has said, and I thought Trump had said it,

but the campaign has answered questions to say that they would veto it realize it was JD Vance, but the campaign has said, and I thought Trump had said it, but the campaign has answered questions to say that they would veto it. Because when JD Vance said it on a Sunday show, they said JD Vance reiterated the Trump campaign's position. His, right, but he's never said- He may not know that, but. Right, but when he says- Well, that's the point here.

I think that when he has said in the past some version of I won't sign it, he is saying, it's not gonna happen, it's not coming to my desk, I'm not gonna sign it, that's not gonna happen. He's never explicitly said, if. I'm not gonna sign it. That's not gonna happen. He's never explicitly said, if it's passed, I will veto it. There's two reasons this happened. The first one is he went out last week

and said he would vote for the abortion amendment in Florida and he got smacked on the nose by the far right abortion extremists who run the Republican party. And so I think he is now hesitant about that because I think they were pretty, the phone lines blew up. People made, you know,

essentially threats about evangelical turnout in the battleground states. I think he's scared there. The other reason is he's a 78 year old, pretty dim declining man. And he doesn't really know what he's doing. And he was knocked off his game pretty early there. This is a theme of the entire debate is like,

there were a couple of debates with Hillary Clinton in 2016, Trump was ranting and raving in those debates, he would lie a lot in those debates, but he made a little bit more sense back in 2016 than he did tonight. He made more sense in 2020. The first debate with the COVID was, when he had COVID it was a little-

Oh, brain fog. Yeah, a little brain fog there. It all happens all the time. But he really just sort of lost the plot on a lot of these answers. I mean, I think that's the theme of this whole thing. I was kind of kidding about prepping with Matt Gaetz and Tulsi Gabbard and doing policy sessions,

but Kamala Harris was prepared for every single answer. She had practiced, she knew how to look in the cut shot. She knew how to call him a liar with her eyes, her face, her smile. And Donald Trump did not seem prepared. And just to sort of like big picture this abortion answer, David Plouffe tweeted, 40 point difference with undecided voters

on their abortion answers, widest gap I've ever seen in debate dials. What debate dials are is campaigns do what are called dial tests. Basically you can figure out in real time if undecided voters or whoever is behind the dials like or dislike an answer. He's saying that the voters, the distance between the voters

on the Trump answer and Kamala Harris' answer was the widest he's ever seen. This is a very experienced campaign operative. So that was a masterful answer from Kamala Harris. And we've been talking about how one challenge the Harris campaign and Democrats have had is convincing voters that not only is Donald Trump responsible for the Supreme Court majority that overturned Roe v. Wade,

but that he would actually pass an abortion ban. That's what they've been trying to say. And Donald Trump's been trying to run away from that. And now at a national TV audience of, I don't know how many tens of millions of people, he basically left open the idea that he would sign a national abortion ban. And six of the seven battleground states have either abortion amendments already

in the constitution or democratic control of the governorship or, and, or the legislature to protect abortion rights in those states. And so if you want people to care about, they got to understand that we need, we have to defeat Donald Trump. Otherwise this doesn't matter who your governor is. It doesn't matter what your state law says. You can still lose your reproductive freedom in your state under Donald Trump.

So the other thing that Harris did in this debate is she went in with mostly a plan to talk about her plans and to contrast with Donald Trump's policies. But she also had a strategy to get under his skin a few times in a sort of subtle way that didn't look like it was too too planned or too artificial, I guess. It definitely looked planned, but it wasn't artificial.

And this was one of the first moments. Let's listen. And I'm gonna invite you to attend one of Donald Trump's rallies, because it's a really interesting thing to watch. You will see during the course of his rallies, he talks about fictional characters like Hannibal Lecter. He will talk about windmills cause cancer and what you will also notice is that people start leaving his

rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom and I will tell you the one thing you will not hear him talk about is you and I'll tell you I believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first and I pledge tell you, I believe you deserve a president who actually puts you first. And I pledge to you that I will. She said people start leaving. People don't go to her rallies. There's no reason to go. So she can't talk about that.

People don't leave my rallies. We have the biggest rallies, the most incredible rallies in the history of politics. So what was the original question about? We didn't know. We were going through the clips. We're like, what was that in response to? Immigration. Obviously. Obviously.

Donald Trump, because we're going to talk about the Republicans all complaining about the moderators. Donald Trump had an opportunity to talk about Kamala Harris and Joe Biden's record on immigration, which poll show is Trump's best issue. And she wisely pivoted right to this rally line and he just took the fucking bait just didn't even talk about immigration off the top went right to the rally stuff immediately she was like when Bugs Bunny

draws a fucking tunnel on the side of a brick wall and then moves the road over and he's like gotta gotta follow the road. It's unbelievable. It also makes you wonder, I mean, like, sometimes you see ads that are created for Twitter and it's Twitter conversation, like Obama doing the kind of hand gesture that looks like he's talking about dick size, but he says crowd size, and then you have to wonder,

did that get in his head? Because he sure seems mad about it these days. He was, well, the funny, one of the many fun things about this debate was watching Donald Trump get progressively angrier with each passing minute. He didn't start that way, and then he just got angrier and angrier and angrier.

They were all at a dog and he was hungry. I also thought it was just great in that, that she went in her rally bit when she looked at the camera and she did this a few times in the debate and said like, he has no plan for you, right? Because that is, it's fun. The big challenge for her in this debate was,

it's fun to get under Donald Trump's skin, right? It makes us excited. It throws Donald Trump off his game, all that kind of stuff. But you also wanna deliver your message that's gonna actually move undecided voters. And the part that's gonna move voters is, he has no plan for you and I do, and here's how I'm gonna improve your

Life and she she wove that in really well and a lot of these like rehearsed bits So it wasn't just to like get under his skin and that was it There's a way to just club Donald Trump over the head that is cathartic, right? But she did she did it in a way that's constructive to her campaign Which is the I think the most impressive part about this debate performance. So we know from the polling that the big lie is one of the most unpopular parts of Trump's shtick, but you know what? He stuck with it tonight.

David Muir tried to get Trump to admit that he actually lost the 2020 election based on some recent statements where he sort of appeared to concede that maybe he lost, would not do it, and then Kamala Harris jumped in with this. Donald Trump was fired by 81 million people. So let's be clear about that. And clearly he is having a very difficult time processing that. But we cannot afford to have a President of the United States who attempts, as he did in the past, to upend the will of the voters in a free and fair election. And I'm going to tell you that I have traveled the world as Vice

President of the United States and world leaders are laughing at Donald Trump. I have talked with military leaders, some of whom worked with you, and they say you're a disgrace. And when you then talk in this way in a presidential debate and deny what over and over again are court cases you have lost because you did in fact lose that election. It leads one to believe that perhaps we do not have in the candidate to my right the temperament or the ability to not be confused about fact. That's deeply troubling and the American people deserve better. What do we think about that guys? Tommy? It's pretty good.

That was pretty good. I mean, also he then gives this long defensive response and I saw someone tweet this and I can't remember who it was and I'm sorry for stealing your joke, but it's very funny and weird that Trump refers to them just as J6, like they're a K-pop band. You know?

And as Tim Miller pointed out, at one point when he was talking about them storm as J6, like they're a K-pop band. You know? And as Tim Miller pointed out, at one point when he was talking about them storming the Capitol, he said, we. We? Yeah. We. He said, we.

There's, you know, when do you wanna talk about the moderators? Go for it. So, look, I think it's a great sign that Democrats feel like they want a cigarette and Republicans are like, the moderators fucked us. I think that's like a great sign. Which is, it's their only response.

It's their only response right now. You look on Laura Ingraham, all the rest of them, they're all saying, oh, the moderators, it's the moderators. It's the moderators, it's the moderators. Josh Holmes, all of them. If you went through and look at the questions that the moderators asked Kamala Harris,

they were, where do you differ with Joe Biden on immigration? Why did you not focus on this problem since the last six months? How have your, why have your positions changed so dramatically since you ran for president 2020? She got a bunch of hard questions, but she had a plan for each of those questions because they thought about what would happen

if she would ask them and how to turn them to her advantage and turn them to Donald Trump. She made hard questions look easy, Donald Trump made hard questions look impossible. And like over and over again, like that is what happened over the course of this debate. David Muir basically, it is, I guess, for Trump a hard question.

You've now admitted you lost the election. A rational actor would take that and say, well, because we shouldn't be talking about that, David. We got to talk about what we're gonna do for the country. There's a hundred things a rational actor in the position of Donald Trump would do with a question like that. But he turned it into, actually, there's an incredible choir of people,

and we gotta pardon a bunch of these people, and, uh, and, and, like, kind of goes on a rambling tirade that she can, she had a fully prepped answer for. But you can see that there were, like, seeds of debate prep that must have happened, because he did that whole rambling response, and at the end he goes, but none of that matters anymore. We gotta look forward.

Yes, he did. He did. It was in there. At the end he goes, but none of that matters anymore. We gotta look forward. Yes, he did. He did. It was in there. It was in there for sure. I also, there will be complaining about the moderators and the fact checking, but to the extent there was fact checking, it was things like, actually sir,

nowhere in this country can you murder babies. Right. Actually sir, there is no evidence that they're eating dogs. Dogs. Yeah, right, like, sorry. This is what made me so. These are basic things.

This makes me so annoyed, like, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris went back and forth on tariff policy and taxes and immigration, all this kind of stuff. They didn't fact check any of that, even though Donald Trump lied a whole bunch of times during that policy section, right? But yeah, when you talk about people,

Haitian immigrants eating dogs, which is just wrong. Made up, or- Made up a Facebook post, made up. Or the fact that the election was stolen, which is wrong. Like, you know what? They have to fact check Donald Trump because he's telling really, really big lies that are obvious.

And it would be embarrassing for them as journalists to sit there and to say, well, you know what, to teach the controversy and whether Haitian immigrants are stealing fucking dogs and eating them. And lies that like incite people? You know what I mean? When you tell people that Democrats are murdering babies after they're born, that leads to people doing crazy things.

Yeah. Violent things. Right. And also there's the complaints about the moderators. It reminds me of like some people after the Biden Trump debate was like, Oh, it was the moderators. They didn't call out Trump's lies. And at the time it's like, no, it wasn't about them not calling

out Trump's lies. Joe Biden had an, it's like, no, it wasn't about them not calling out Trump's lies. Joe Biden had an opportunity to go after Trump and didn't take that opportunity. And tonight, the same thing happened. Donald Trump spoke, I think the final tally was more than Kamala Harris. He had plenty of time to go after Kamala Harris to prosecute the case. He didn't prosecute the case because he couldn't. And by the way, every time Donald Trump said, I need to respond, I need to respond, he did. There were times where Kamala Harris wasn't given that chance. I actually don't think that's a fault. Like that's how it goes in a debate.

You're making decisions on the fly. Like I think in both in the Biden Trump debate and in the Kamala Harris Trump debate, these were moderators that asked pretty tough questions, fact-checked where necessary here and there and mostly got out of the way. And in both debates, it was the candidates that were responsible for what happened in that debate.

Again, on that immigration question that he turned into a response to her on his rallies, the initial question was, President Biden, you signed this executive order to close the border. Like, why did you wait three and a half years? Donald Trump could have gone back to that. It was the debate. The moderator.

Yeah. It was the debate equivalent of sort of this is a Wendy's. Right. I mean, it really was. It was the debate. Yeah. It was the debate equivalent of sir. This is a Wendy's. It really was. Um, there was a foreign policy question. They talked about the war in Ukraine.

They talked about Afghanistan, uh, and the moderator has also brought up Gaza. Uh, it was interesting to hear what Donald Trump had to say about it. Uh, here it was. She hates Israel at the same time in her own way, she hates the Arab population. I mean, if that's true, that's a problem. I just like that,

because it's such a perfect encapsulation of who Donald Trump is and like what his politics are. It's like, it's a divisive issue. You know, there are some Arab Americans and Palestinian Americans mad at her. But there's also a potential to get some Jewish Americans mad at her. I'm gonna say that she hates them all.

I wanna suppress the vote in Michigan, but I want the Jews in Florida, so I gotta say she hates them all. Right. Yeah, it was a pandering to everybody and making sense to no one. He also, like his key kind of national security validator that he kept mentioning is Viktor Orban,

who's a quasi dictator in Hungary, who was very famous in kind of like right wing, CPAC, Republican circles, but unknown to everybody else. And that was another theme throughout the night that we actually talked about on the Monday, Tuesday pod, which is Jake Tapper came on CNN and said that many of Trump's answers were 4chan posts come to life.

And that is exactly right. Like Donald Trump, he lives in true social. He speaks this right wing language. And that if you are. Like Donald Trump, he lives in truth social. He speaks this right wing language. And that if you are not fluent in it, you do not know what he's talking about half the time. I mean, we watch his rallies and this is what they are. This is how he talks all the time. There is no in, you know, we,

I think we all probably did one back and watched at least portions of the 2016 and 2020 debates. What is different now is his brain is fully pickled. He does not have a Fox speed in an everyone else speed. He only has Fox speed. And it's even like, it's even actually, it's more like Newsmax these days than Fox. And it's just, you can't, no persuadable voter

who watched this would understand 90% of what he was talking about. Yeah, no, the Washington Post convened 24 undecided voters and they were asking them, did you understand what the answer Trump just gave? I forget what the question was. And one of them said,

I couldn't follow anything that he was saying right there. Wouldn't it be nice to kind of understand or maybe live for one day as the two people that thought Trump won the debate out of that group of undecided? What's it like to walk in your shoes? Yeah, what happens? We got the CNN post debate poll, by the way,

on who won 63% Harris, 37% Trump. Sounds about right. That sounds fine. That sounds about right. Remember when those advisors told the New York Times that their goal is to get happy Trump? Yeah. Policy Trump.

How'd it go? What happened to happy Trump? Was this happy Trump? Did they win? Did they get happy Trump? And John, to your point on speaking time, Stephanie Ruhl at MSNBC tweeted that Kamala Harris spoke 23 times

for 37 minutes. Trump spoke 39 times for 41 minutes. Moderators were unfair. Yeah, unfair moderators. Didn't have time to prosecute his case. I would say the ugly head of misogyny rears his head again. Oh boy. So, love it mentioned this earlier,

but at one point Trump was trying to give an answer on inflation and he walked into a trap, a line that I think it's fair to say, Kamala went into the night planning to use. Let's listen. She is Biden, the worst inflation we've ever had, a horrible economy because inflation has made it so bad that you can't get away with that.

Thank you, your time is up. I wanna respond to that though. I wanna just respond briefly. Clearly, I am not Joe Biden and I am certainly not Donald Trump. And what I do offer is a new generation of leadership for our country. Now the morphine was just hitting love it.

But the rest of the office was all cheering and screaming at that because that is the message, that's it. I do think, so that was, Donald Trump was ricocheting all over the place, so that is where he kind of came back to inflation. There had been an economic section at the very top of the debate, and it was like the first 10 to 15 minutes of the debate,

I thought it was like, almost like, I thought he was doing fine, but it was kind of a wash. It was just sort of like people argue. I didn't like think it was going that well until the abortion section and then on, like she was crushing and he was on the ropes. But it's interesting because it's like, then they come back to inflation here

and she is so on top of her game by the time you get to this part of the debate that she's just as sort of like ready with this line. And it was, so it was nice. Whenever she's about to deliver a line that she knows is gonna take Trump down, we saw this after he questioned her racial identity, is she kind of laughs through herself?

Cause it's just, it's the, it is the joyous warrior thing that Doug Emhoff was in here talking about the other day. It's the, it's great. It's the joy of somebody who had a binder and knows what page they're on. It's the joyous warrior thing had a binder and knows what page they're on. It's the joy of swerving, but it's also like Kamala Harris and we, and Doug Emhout was here in the studio and we talked to him.

They are still normal people. They have not been in Washington that long that they have, you know, like, and so a normal person standing on stage next to Donald Trump, when Donald Trump says shit like that, when he talks about eating dogs and cats, is going to laugh because it's a crazy thing to say. And like, we don't have to pretend that you have to compose yourself

for when he says something like that. Of course you're gonna laugh. Of course you're gonna laugh when you say, I am not Joe Biden and I am not Donald Trump and it's a new generation and we're gonna move forward. Like, that just makes sense. And as she laughed, I mean, you could watch his face go from very, very orange and made up,

like extremely caked on to redder and redder. And by the end of the debate, he was screaming almost all of his answers. Yeah, he was shoo-erious. Shouting into the microphone. He was shoo-erious. Yeah, I would say that it's the like the little chuckle of someone who realizes that he can do a double jump

and get kingdom checkers. You know, like that sort of like a few moments throughout the debate where it was just like, oh my God, look where he went, he doesn't see it. Bop, bop, king me. Yes, I like that. So much of the punditry leading up to the debate was about like how she might separate herself from Joe Biden.

Like are there policy, we talked about this on Tuesday's pod. Are there policy differences? Are there decisions that she's gonna point to? But really all she had to do was in that line, like I'm not Joe Biden, obvious. It was what we talked about. Right? It was what we talked about.

Yeah, and like I'm not Donald Trump, I'm something new. I'm a younger generation of leadership. And like you don't need to get into the specific policy differences and this and that, and whether you support Biden on this or that she just that's all you need. That's that's like I think that turned out to be more true than we have any right to expect it to be because Donald Trump was so bad at tying her to Joe Biden in this debate right like he missed so many opportunities uh to make this a referendum on the Biden administration which is what he was

supposed to do but didn't have the aptitude to. So she had even more space to basically just sort of separate herself just by being someone new and talking about the future. I mean, that's the argument, right? That she's gonna turn the page in a new general relationship. She's gonna have to over the course of the next 50 some days here, make that argument over and over again,

to offer the proof points to that. In a debate, it's one line, it's a great line. It was, there were very similar lines in our convention speech, but now the test will be, it opens the door for these voters, now you gotta meet the threshold of change. Well, and there's, basically you can tell that there's two moments that Donald Trump had, I think,

that seemed like they were prepared moments or prepared lines. At one point, she talks about all the people who worked for him that no longer support him, that call him dangerous, out of touch, whatever, Mike Pence, all the rest of them. The ad, all the people. All the people.

All part of the ad, right? And that they released the week of the debate with Pence and everyone else. And then he said to her, well, you know what, you didn't, why didn't your administration fire anyone? Because of the border, because of inflation. And you could tell it was this prepared line

that I'm like, oh, so far that's the only good response Donald Trump has given the entire debate. And then at the very end, when he gives his closing argument, he starts the closing argument by saying like, she had three and a half years, why didn't she change any of this? Which is what the campaign had telegraphed

they wanted their message to be. And then of course, then he went on and just rambled and didn't really close. He didn't land the plane on that closing argument. But those are basically like two messages that you can tell they might've practiced, but he didn't land the plane on that closing argument, but those are basically like two messages that you can tell they might've practiced, but he didn't practice anything else, and it showed. And it's really like-

Or he did practice, but he couldn't execute because like Dan said, his brain is pickled. He got angry and then he had to, he just followed her wherever she went. But like the fact that he didn't get to a sentence like that until the closing of the debate, that should have been in his first answer, right? She started with a tough question,

like, are you better off than you are four years ago? Question that like Trump would love to be able to dig in on. And she went right to her message. She went to what her plans, her policies, her vision. That was an opportunity that Trump couldn't take advantage of, right? Like that happened throughout the debate. Yeah.

Yeah. So, towards the end of the debate, the moderators asked Trump about his plans for Obamacare, and again, did not seem to be prepared on that one. Let's listen. If we can come up with a plan that's going to cost our people, our population, less money and be better healthcare than Obamacare, then I would absolutely do it. But until then, I'd run it as good as it can be run. So just a yes or no, you still do not have a plan.

I have concepts of a plan. You'll be seeing that in an ad. That is the question. And the question, so credit to Lindsay Davis, because she was like, so it's been nine years, have you come up with a plan yet? You've been talking about repealing Obamacare, because she was like, so it's been nine years, have you come up with a plan yet? You've been talking about repealing Obamacare,

you've tried 60 some odd times, do you have a plan yet? And that's the best yet, concepts of a plan. It was interesting, because he, this was another moment where he, they had practiced this in some way, shape or form, at least the idea that they were gonna keep Obamacare and just try to run it better, but he just, he needs to be the center of it too much

and he has to have his own possible plan to replace it. He just can't take the obvious answer on the table and he walks right into a trap once again. Well, also the trap is set by the fact that he knows nothing about healthcare. So he has never come up with a plan. He doesn't know what to talk about. He just doesn't know.

But he's never had a plan to replace Obamacare. He has said for years that he had a plan. Like this is, I think gets to the kind of like, he's the out of practice, didn't prep, hasn't thought about this in a long time and is older than he used to be. Like there are a few moments in this debate where he just sounded like a politician.

One of them was around abortion. Another one was this moment. Do you have a plan? I have the concept of a plan. Like you're a fucking world-class liar. Just say you have a plan. It's just strange. You'll be hearing it soon.

After that he said, you'll be hearing it soon. But also a freshman member of Congress could talk about healthcare for 60 seconds. Right. About what possible ideas would be in the plan, but he cannot for five seconds talk about healthcare policy. So there's nothing he could say there other than concepts of a plan.

But I think this is where in the coming weeks, if I was her, like would expose him, right? Because what you could see after this debate, if you were an undecided voter and I haven't listened to the focus groups yet or all that, but what they might say is, okay, yeah, like she seemed commanding, she was a little bit like, I still don't know enough about what she's going to do versus what he's going to do, right? Like that's what it's going to come down to for people. And I think the case that she can prosecute even more than all the fun traps

she laid for him is like, this guy is full of shit. He has no plan. He has no plan for you. She said it a couple of times tonight and here's what I'm going to do. Here's what I'm going to do to bring costs down. Here's what I'm going to do in healthcare. Here's what I'm going to do on reproductive rights. And this guy, he has, he has no idea what he's going to do.

He's going to be led around by the people that he hires who are all extreme crazy people. He only cares about himself. He doesn't care about you. And he can't even talk about healthcare. Yeah, I feel like there was like the next step that I felt like I didn't hear in the debate. Like she did at the beginning, we talked about the child tax credit and a few other things.

Like she was, I think hitting like the message, but not getting into a lot of the details about like what exactly her plan is versus what his plan is. And, you know, she says project 2025, he says it's not my plan, like hitting like these are his advisors, these are his plans, this is exactly what he's gonna do. Here are the details of what,

because she said that at one point saying he doesn't have a plan, but there's project 2025 and it's very detailed. And it's like, there's a little bit of a dissonance there. And I just think like being specific about making him own the plan, that it's his advisors and it's like, there's a little bit of a dissonance there. And I just think like being specific about making him own the plan, that it's his advisors, it's his people and then more specifics about her stuff. So yeah, so that leads us to like what happens next

and also what this debate does. Do we think it's, we're all very excited. We're exuberant right now. Do we think it could move the race here or what? On average, the first debate in the last several elections has moved the polls about 1.7%. And that includes the Biden Trump debate earlier this year. Do we consider this the second debate or the first debate?

I'm counting this as a second first debate in the same campaign for that reason. But 1.7% would be a big shift in this race. This is right now the closest race in recent memory and maybe history. And so if it were to move something like that, it would do it. The last big poll movement,

just I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, was after the first Romney Obama debate, the polls moved 4% in one week. And then basically by the third week, they'd moved basically back to where they were before. And so I think we should think about this as the beginning, not the end of her final push here, right? This has opened the door to new voters,

it's given her momentum. Can't believe we've gone this far into the debate without mentioning that she got Taylor Swift's endorsement. I was, that was next. Oh sorry, I'm gonna jump ahead. We're talking about the debate, Dan, we're substance people. Also, after the debate, Taylor Swift posted on Instagram

that she's voting for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, signed the post, Childless Cat Lady. It's a big win. It was fantastic. The campaign said they didn't know she was gonna do that, which I assumed was true. But some people were thinking about the timing. There was no timing.

Taylor Swift just watched the debate and was like, yeah, I'm gonna vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. Well, she also said in the post that there was some AI-generated fake endorsements of her and Donald Trump. Yes, there was no timing. Taylor Swift just watched the debate and was like, yeah, I'm gonna vote for Kamala Harris. Well, she also said in the post that there was some like AI generated fake endorsements of her and Donald Trump, but I think she wanted to get ahead of that. Yeah, I mean, the question of, I think we probably shouldn't be looking for some sort of definitive polling bounce.

I think things to look for are, do we start to see fewer voters say, I don't know enough about her, I don't know what she would do for me on the economy, I don't know enough about her. I don't know what she would do for me on the economy. I don't know enough about her plans. We learned a lot of interesting things tonight. I don't think that I knew that Kamala Harris was a gun owner. That was news.

A cop and a gun owner. I was very happy. A cop, a gun owning cop endorsed by Dick Cheney. Let's get to the fucking doors. And Liz Cheney. And John McCain's ghost. I was very happy that Kamala Harris informed tens of millions of people that Donald Trump

invited the Taliban to come hang out at Camp David. I bet that was new information. That's for you, that's a little treat for you. Yeah, in the world of space, I bet her Ukraine answer was one of the least popular things she said tonight, just because people don't love sending money to foreign places for wars. But she was smart enough to say that Putin

will go into Poland next because she knows a lot of Polish Americans live in swing states. She knows exactly how many. That was great. That was a prepared candidate. Yeah, like if you look at like the CBS poll of Pennsylvania that they like, you know, it was like whatever,

48, 49, 48 is really close. And basically of all the people, like 5% of Trump voters said they were open to voting for Kamala Harris. And then there was like 2 or 3% undecided. If you got half of the undecided voters and 20% of the people that were leaning towards Trump that were open to it, you would see what?

Like a point or two change in the vote in Pennsylvania, which means it's like a huge shift in the people that are still deciding would barely register in the polls at this point. Yeah, and look, there's voters who are gonna say, I wanted to know what she's gonna do versus what he's gonna do. There's also voters who are just gonna like

make their decision based on impressions of the two candidates. And she seemed like I would look at the strong leader numbers. I would look at the like, who's gonna bring change numbers in some of these polls. Well, you know, we'll see what they bring. Who knows?

Maybe everyone watched and just the race is still polarized and tight and that's probably the most likely outcome, but it also could have gone badly. It did not. It actually could not have gone better for her. I don't think. And you know, the Trump thinks that too, because you know, his top surrogates like Lindsey Graham

told Tim Miller that the debate team should be fired and Trump was unprepared and he called it a disaster. Yeah. And Trump made an unscheduled visit to the spin room, which you don't ever do. That didn't go well either. And then he went on Sean Hannity, right? They were running scared. They look weak.

Meanwhile, JD Vance was talking to Caitlin Collins trying to defend the dogs and eating the dogs and cats. I'm here for, actually some city geese have gone missing. And I would just say that if at the end of a presidential debate about who's gonna be in charge of the nukes and Medicare and healthcare and foreign policy, if you're telling CNN that some city geese in Springfield, Ohio may have gone missing,

I don't know that you're where you wanna be message wise. He was literally defending his posts. He used to turn abducted. He was, I mean, he was like. Right, the city geese are abducted. And here's the thing, it may not have been true, but you know what? We wouldn't have had this conversation about immigration

if not for our memes. The memes were important. He literally defended the memes. Do you think that somewhere right now, like I don't know who it is, the All In guys are having a drunken podcast without calling on Trump to be replaced? Do you think?

Oh, that would be great. They want him to be replaced with his running mate if he could go back in time and choose his running mate as not JDM. You don't think they like JD? Those guys probably like JD. Are city geese like the king's deer? Are you not allowed, I mean, like,

I don't think pets should be kidnapped, but like, I don't know if we're gonna really, gonna cry over a city goose. Yeah. The one last- Eat a city goose, I don't care. One last thing, one last thing we have to cover here. After the debate, the Harris campaign said,

we'll see you again for the second debate. They basically challenged Trump to a second debate in October. Maybe in Ohio. What do we think is gonna happen there? Do we think like he, on Fox they're saying, oh, they want a second debate because she lost, which just doesn't really pass the smell test.

But does he, it sounds like he agrees to the second debate. I think you guys were in the bathroom, he wouldn't commit on Hannity. He wouldn't commit, okay. It's gonna depend on the polls, right? This is just how it was with- Well, what do you think? You think if he's losing, he gets the debate

and if it doesn't move the polls much, he just says no? He says no debate? I hate to predict what this adult man would do, but if you were in his campaign, it's hard to see how another debate would help you. He's not gonna be better. Well, so the other question is where would that debate be? Because we're running out of networks.

So it's like. It's Fox or NBC. It's Fox or NBC. Or right here. CBS is a network? Yes, no, CBS definitely is a network. Here, yeah, here. But I do think it's a, he will be pushing.

Bravo. He will push for a Fox debate. I could see him saying Fox or bust is what I would. Max? Right, you could do, sure. It could be Pluto TV, whatever that is, Whoopi. Yeah, I mean your options are debate or have JD Vance over on MSNBC talking about

how they're eating hamsters and guinea pigs in Pittsburgh. JD Vance is sitting there desperately like, don't ask her about her cycle. Don't ask her what you want to ask you freak. Absolute freak. Do we think there's some people in the Harris campaign they're like, maybe we don't need another debate. We should just go out on top here.

I think it's great to challenge into a debate and get mired in the technicalities of whether there will be a debate and then see what happens with the polls. I think she should, I think she wants another debate. She should have another debate. She's good at it. She is the, even after this debate, she is the underdog.

And as the underdog, you have to just put your pedal to the metal the whole time. Do not take it off, keep going, be the aggressor, have the most momentum, be everywhere. She is so much better than him. She benefits so much from the split screen. So push for it at every moment. Yeah, I agree with that.

If there's any bit of a sort of caution and risk aversion in her strategy, I think she would lose this race. If she stays the aggressor as she has for much of these first eight weeks here, then she absolutely can win. I also think that's why they challenged Donald Trump to a debate five seconds after this debate was over.

Yeah. Okay, couple quick things before we go. There are just 55 days until election day and we need everyone to step up and help because it is gonna be a close race. The polls don't move that much, which we don't expect them to. We're gonna need every single person out there. In the last six days before National Voter Registration Day on September 17th, you can help Vote Save

America reach their goal of 75,000 volunteer signups to their Organize or Else program. The race depends on voters turning out in key precincts, which is why Vote Save America curates high impact volunteer opportunities and must win districts where every vote matters. Do not wake up on November 6th, regretting not doing more. Thinking to yourself, oh, the debate was fun

and it sounds like she won the debate. Why didn't she win the election? Well, because you didn't fucking sign up for Vote Save America, that's why. Right? Just because Trump took debate. Sign up in less than five minutes at vote save america.com slash 2024.

It'll be so quick you won't even remember Lovett's pun. Just right there. This message has been paid for by Vote Save America. You can learn more at vote save america.com and this ad has not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. Also check out What A Day with our brand new host,

Jane Costen. Damn right. She's joined Cricket Media and she's now the host of our daily news pod, What A Day. Check out the latest episode of What A Day with Jane and the podcast industry's next big star, Tommy Vitor. Oh yeah, I'm about to do that. As they make sense of this debate and what's next

in the race to November 5th. Tommy was talking about this debate for an hour, not enough for you? Yeah, delete this shit, the good stuff's on What a Day, so check that out. That's noted. Hey, hey, hey. Sorry fellas.

All right, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a warmup actually. YouTube, Apple Podcasts, wherever. All right everyone, that's it. We made it through a second debate, much different than our last debate I would say, we sound a lot different. Joe would have won this one too.

Trafalgar says Harris won. Trafalgar? Trafalgar? Oh man. That's a deep cut for the fans. Is that real? They actually did say that? 55, 43. Wow.

And who is that? 43%. Well, it's Trafalgar. That mustache guy. All right, everyone, we'll let you go. We'll talk to you Thursday. Bye, everyone. Talk to you Friday, whatever.

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producers are Saul Rubin and Farrah Safaree. Reed Cherlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroote is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Hefkote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kirill Pellavive, and David Tolst. MSNBC presents The Threat of Project 2025, a four-part series from the How to Win 2024 podcast. It's an in-depth look at what could be the draconian blueprint for a second Donald

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