Pod Save America - "Live from Radio City!"

Episode Date: May 24, 2018

Mueller racks up 75 criminal charges in one year, Trump tries to shut the investigation down, and the White House goes after Planned Parenthood. Then Seth Meyers, Questlove, and the New York Times’ Nikole Hannah-Jones join Jon, Jon, Tommy, Brittany Packnett, and Alyssa Mastromonaco on stage at Radio City Music Hall in New York City. 

Hello, New York! Welcome to Radio City Music Hall and welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. What's up, New York City? I'm Brittany Packnett. You can do it. You can do it. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm John Lovett. I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco.

Shout out to Dan Pfeiffer. We wish he was here. I'm Tommy Vitor. We have some great friends joining us tonight. Seth Meyers is here. As you just heard, Questlove is here. And the award-winning investigative journalist for the New York Times, Nicole Hannah-Jones, is here. Shall we get to the news?

Sure. I don't want to yet. We want to take it in a little bit more. Radio City Music Hall. That's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. This is ridiculous. Now I'm ready for the news.

Are you ready? I'm not ready yet. Now I'm ready. Okay. So guys, it has now been a year since the President of the United States told the country that he fired his FBI director because of the Russia thing. I just want to step back on this. This then caused Trump's hand-picked Deputy Attorney General, Rod Rosenstein,

to appoint Special Counsel Robert Mueller to launch an investigation... Okay, yeah, Robert Mueller. America's hero, Robert Mueller. Give it up for Bob. Big applause for Robert Mueller at Radio City Music Hall. To appoint Robert Mueller to launch an investigation into Donald Trump and his associates

for obstruction of justice and conspiracy to defraud the United States. One year later, the investigation has resulted in 75 criminal charges against... 75. 75. 75 criminal charges against 22 individuals and companies and five guilty pleas.

On that list of guilty pleas and indictments includes Donald Trump's campaign manager, Donald Trump's deputy campaign manager, Donald Trump's national security advisor, and Donald Trump's foreign policy advisor, Donald Trump's personal lawyer and business associate and all-around wonderful guy Michael Cohen is also expected to be indicted soon.

And hopefully soon Donald Trump. And hopefully soon Donald Trump. Yeah. Woo! The crimes range from bank fraud to money laundering to perjury to a conspiracy to defraud. The bipartisan Senate Intelligence Committee has also concluded that Russia successfully interfered in our election with the purpose of electing Donald Trump. And we know from news reports that the Trump campaign was not only willing to accept that help from Russia, but now from other

foreign governments as well, like Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. So, John Lovett, my first question is, what kind of a witch hunt is this? The question is, what kind of a witch hunt is this? If the witch trials in Salem had the hit rate of a Bob Mueller, we would all remember the story of the Salem witch trials as that of a heroic prosecutor who saved a town from a group of very real and very dangerous witches. I went through that a little bit because I did want to step back because it is easy to lose sight in the daily news deluge of just what this investigation has uncovered so far. Do you

find yourself sometimes doing the same thing, wondering just how big of a scope this has been? Yeah, I mean, it's hard. You know, it's both really complicated and really simple. It's really complicated in that there are many different piles of scandal. I think probably one of the hardest jobs inside of the special counsel's investigative office

is sort of what pile to put crimes into. You know, there's crimes A, probably at this point it's crimes A to F, then G to L, then M to O, which is always the busiest, and then P to Z. P to Z. You know, we spent a lot of time breaking down the intricacies of this scandal, but Adam Serwer in The Atlantic made a really important point, which I think is often lost,

which is, yes, these are a bunch of different, very big scandals tied together, but ultimately, it is one big story, which is the corruption of the federal government by Donald Trump and his associates. And I think I'm glad we're stepping back because I think we do lose the forest for the trees a little bit. And I think people watching the news lose the forest for the trees a little bit because every day brings a new, you know, we've all, look, we're midway through the second season and now we're meeting the Taxi King. What's he about?

What's his motivation? Is the Taxi King going to be someone who's here for a few seasons or is it like a mid-tier Sopranos villain who shows up and then dies three episodes later? We don't know yet. We don't know how important the Taxi King is

going to be. Well, let's talk about that. Tommy, there were two big stories about Michael Cohen in the news today. One, as Lovett referenced, his former business partner known as the taxi king of New York. Some of you may know him. Is that like the rat king? Yeah, it might be. They're different. No, maybe. So this guy, this fellow, the Taxi King of New York, he got himself a 100-year jail sentence reduced to zero years

for agreeing to cooperate with New York prosecutors and Robert Mueller. So he must have something fairly valuable to offer. Uh-oh. And then we learned today that Michael Cohen received a secret payment of $400,000 to set up a meeting between the Ukrainian president and Donald Trump. We've all worked in the White House. Obviously, that happens all the time.

Tommy, why is this a problem for Cohen and possibly for Donald Trump? Sure. So, just an understated question. Sure. So just an understated question. Gene Friedman, the taxi king, Michael Cohen's business partner, is in trouble for tax evasion. He's cooperating with government investigators. We don't know if the cooperation is specific to the investigation into Cohen, but it's a decent rule of thumb that if your business partner is cooperating with the government because they're in deep, deep trouble, you're in trouble. Just like it's a decent rule of thumb

that when you're the president of the United States and your lawyer slash fixer is targeted by Bob Mueller, you're in some trouble. Now, the second piece of this, the second story you mentioned, to me seems to be a much bigger deal, which is that Michael Cohen took at least $400,000 to arrange a meeting between the president of Ukraine and Donald Trump, which, first of all,

that should not be a hard meeting to arrange. You should meet with the president of Ukraine. They're an important country in an important region. You should take that meeting. But clearly that's lobbying. And to lobby for a foreign government, you have to register under a law called the Foreign Agents Registration Act, or FARA.

And the fact that he didn't... You think his paperwork slipped through the cracks? Yeah. The fact that he didn't means he committed a crime and could get up to five years in jail. Now, coincidentally, right after this meeting occurred between the President of Ukraine and President Trump, the Ukrainian anti-corruption agency

stopped looking into Paul Manafort, who we all know... Uh-oh. I didn't get to that part of the story. Ran Trump's campaign, was the chairman of his campaign, and is in serious trouble. So what a coincidence in this unending saga filled with coincidences that lead to sketchy Russian people

and Michael Cohen and Donald Trump. You guys, this is like an episode of Scooby-Doo that didn't make it to television. I forgot. My favorite part of the story is a BBC story today. And a Ukrainian official is quoted saying that they were shocked by how dirty Cohen is. that they were shocked by how dirty Cohen is. This is a country where the president, Viktor Yushchenko, was poisoned.

He nearly died. He was poisoned with an ancient orange derivative. So these guys have seen some shit. Alyssa, I want to go back to what we were talking with Leavitt about. A global strategy group poll out today, and this is a democratic group, they found that 55% of the American people support the investigation, but only 41% believe that it has uncovered any crimes. So this kind of goes back to what we're saying, like, why do you think that is? Is this, is it too confusing for people to follow? What do you think? It's too confusing. I mean, look, we, look, we're getting ready for the show, and we're quizzing each other on what we know. And so if people who follow the

news all the time are double and triple checking that they understand. I mean, look, Leslie Stahl was on TV a couple of days ago saying that Donald Trump said to her, you know, yeah, I say that you're crooked, and I say that you're corrupt and I say that you're corrupt because then when I, when, when news is reported, people don't believe it because they think you're out to get me. And so I think that that's the, I mean, if you guys like go back to when we were in the White House, imagine the level of detail people would have had if one of our interns had winked at a Russian, You know? I mean, and so it's like, and that's,

I just think it's so much for people to comprehend who are primarily focused on putting food on their tables and what it means to their family. Like, this is secondary at best. And they've been told all along that the people reporting that information to them are all liars. And criminals and fake.

Not only am I not going to try to figure out this horribly convoluted thing, I don't believe what you have to say anyway, because Donald Trump told me not to believe you. But I also, I don't want to miss this point that Lovett made though, right? Because the theme in this entire administration has been entitlement and privilege run amok, right? Like this is what happens when you think the rules do not apply to you. The media

rules don't apply to you. The basic rules of truth and fact don't apply to you. The electoral rules don't apply to you. You can just steal whatever election you want. The hair rules don't apply to you because you know how I feel about his hair. Like there are just, there is, I mean

this is, you know, white supremacy is a hell of a drug that's all i got well so britney i was gonna ask like how do you think democrats and activists should be talking about all of this because there's been this big debate you know originally people said voters actually don't care about this voters care about their health care and their jobs and injustices and and and their lives every day and the russia thing is very far away and now people are saying okay there's the all these crimes have piled up it's this massive corruption it you know has it's global in scope and are democrats not talking about it enough like how do you think you connect this with people to people

i genuinely think it's just our responsibility to keep telling the truth like the world will only be post-truth if we let it be and i am determined never ever ever ever ever to let that happen yeah right so like i mean this is to be very honest i was not the most excited about coming to new york city because we're in radio city music hall which is really incredible i was most excited because this is the only city where you could put on a salsa party outside of a racist lawyer's apartment. And I'm like, they took out Aaron Schlossberg because people told the truth. And folks were like, he's like, I'm not a racist. They were like, yeah, what about the other 40 videos of things that you said that are completely racist, right? And I mean, this is, like I said, Donald Trump has never faced

accountability, right? If he can't pay his bills, he just files bankruptcy. If he can't get a date, he'll grab a woman by the, if, you know, if he can't win, he'll cheat. And so it is our job to hold them accountable. So keep telling the truth. That's our job. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I mean, I think that we can overthink these polls and what voters want to hear and whatnot. It's like the President of the United States has now been involved in a criminal enterprise. His campaign chairman, his national security advisor, all these people have pled guilty. They're going to jail. We have to tell people. If people don't know about that, we have to tell them about that.

It does seem as if there's now two major stories that we're dealing with. The first is the investigation of Donald Trump, which we just talked about. And the second is Donald Trump's attempt to shut that investigation down. And that second story has really kicked up in recent days. Trump and his allies have claimed that the FBI and the Obama White House were spying on his 2016 campaign, that they were wiretapping him today, that they were planting evidence, that they were trying to set him up. And this would all be, I know, this would all be laughable,

except they have an entire propaganda network pushing this conspiracy, and Trump has now ordered the FBI and the DOJ to meet with Huss Republicans and reveal top-sec secret information about the investigation. No Democrats invited, no Senate Republicans invited because the Senate Republicans have been a little too responsible. Just the craziest of the crazy got the nod. It's not even the craziest of the crazy. We are now at the place where Trey Gowdy is the responsible one.

Benghazi Trey Gowdy. Benghazi Trey. Let us remember what Trey Gowdy is the responsible one. Benghazi Trey Gowdy. Benghazi Trey. Let us remember what Trey Gowdy is. Benghazi Gowdy is the adult in the room to make sure crazy Devin Nunes doesn't go too far. I mean, John, how much time do we spend pushing back on this side of the story? How much do we worry about it? Because I would rather go out there talking about the actual crimes that were committed but you see, at least in the mainstream

press now, I see an analysis in the New York Times and Axios and other places and they're like, well, Donald Trump is winning the message war now. And now maybe we ignore it. Maybe I stop debating Kim Strassel on Wall Street. You should definitely stop getting into fights

on Twitter. I'd like everybody who's here to encourage my friend John to stop arguing with people who are wrong on Twitter. Are they wrong? Yes. Can he solve it? Probably not. Probably not. You know, it's a

it's so many, there's so many different things we have to do at once and it's really, really hard. I don't know the answer. I don't think anyone knows the answer. Because part of the problem is we are trying to solve a structural problem that has gotten worse over 30 years with words right now in a critical moment before an election.

The Republican Party and conservatives have spent 30 years building an incredibly powerful propaganda apparatus. It is dangerous. It is disruptive. It works. Fox News works. The billionaire-funded sites that run from The Federalist to National Review to The Weekly Standard, they work. They work in part because they employ some serious adults who are right-wing and who I disagree with terribly, who provide cover for some of the most despicable and deceptive people in politics. They launder the ideas. They get them into the public. They get them onto CNN. They get them into the New York Times. We can't win that fight before 2018, so I don't know what you do. I agree, though, with Brittany and with John that

we can't just cede the issue because Republicans have succeeded in muddying the waters. We need to get back to basics. You know, we've talked about getting back to basics around just saying Donald Trump is corrupt, Donald Trump is dangerous, Donald Trump is chaotic, and here's how it hurts you, right? That one-two punch. We also have to get down to basics around the corruption. I think Democrats need to stop being too cute by half and stop trying to be too smart. I'm glad Schiff is fighting this. I'm glad we have smart Democrats kind of fighting on the tactics. We need to have a simple, elegant statement, which is Donald Trump's campaign chair, his national security advisor, have pled guilty or charged with crimes. This corruption is hurting you. We need to have four or five key sentences

that we say over and over again. Donald Trump's corruption is extended to this branch. Donald Trump's corruption is extended to that branch. And hit that over and over again. And stop worrying about the minutiae and stop worrying about Devin Nunes, because I don't think we can fix that. about the minutiae and stop worrying about Devin Nunes because I don't think we can fix that. Today, we have to figure out how. I just want to give a brief shout-out to some minutiae because I remember

the hypocrisy. How dare you? How dare you disagree with me in front of New York? I love you. You're right. You are right. But the hypocrisy drives me crazy. I remember when we were at the White House, there were a series of national security leaks or pseudo-leaks. A lot of information about the bin Laden operation was given out on purpose, but then some things

came out that were problematic. There was a really bad leak about an operation in Yemen that actually put at risk some operations. There was a very serious leak about Iran and efforts to stop their nuclear program. And Republicans in the Senate called for a special counsel to investigate the leaks. Right now, the leaks are coming from the Intelligence Committee on the House side. House Republicans, Devin Nunes and these people, are putting out information where they are naming sources

that are trying to help their country and help the FBI and the CIA. And it is just astounding. It is astoundingly reckless, and they need to be called out on it. But the referees have just sort of forgotten all that's come before. I go through this myself sometimes. It's like you can either go through all of these conspiracies point by point and try to debunk them. But let's step back and

just think about what they're trying to say here. They're trying to say that the Obama administration in the deep state wanted to sabotage Donald Trump's campaign and spy on it. So first of all, they did a very shitty job of doing that because he won the election. Also, Favs, before we go any further, why would anyone have done that? Because no one thought Donald Trump was going to win. I mean, sorry. We're in this mess because James Comey was like, when Hillary wins, I'll get in real trouble

if I don't say this now. Right. So James Comey, who's been leading this entire spying operation on Donald Trump's campaign, he's like, what's the pinnacle of this operation? I know. A week before the election, I'll announce that we've reopened the investigation into

Hillary Clinton. That's it. That's how I'll get them. I mean, this is fucking absurd. John, you're falling for it. They're playing chess. You're playing checkers. I want one of them to tell me the motivations behind this whole thing here. It doesn't make any sense.

I mean, I think this is all about distraction. Because, you know, some days I don't know if I should be offended that they are spending this much time talking about, you know, these investigations and making up Spygate and all of these things. Right. Or if I should be deeply thankful

that they don't have time to do more governing because the governing they do sucks. Yeah, that's right. I vacillate between those two emotions all the time. And I find myself not willing to go deep on this conversation because while this conversation is happening, which is important, also people's lives are being ruined. Like families are being separated at the border. Trans kids are being told that they're not people. Women are being told

that you can regulate our uteruses more than you can regulate guns. All of this stuff is happening. And I'm thankful that you all are paying attention to the details because I ain't got time to. I mostly rely on John and Tommy for the details. I listen to Pod John and Tommy for the details.

I listen to Pod Save the People for the news crew segment where I learn all the other very important things that aren't this. Shout out to Pod Save the People. Subscribe. Subscribe. Let's talk about some of that sucky governing right now. I want to talk about the new White House policy on abortion. So, yeah. Spoiler alert, it's not good.

Donald Trump spoke at an event on Tuesday hosted by a big anti-abortion group to brag about his administration's decision to put new restrictions on federally funded family planning programs like preventing doctors from advising women who are contemplating their options about where they might receive an abortion.

The head of the Susan B. Anthony List group called Trump, quote, the most pro-life president in history, which does not reveal a very informed understanding of either the president or his own personal history. Brittany, how bad is this new rule, and what are the consequences going to be? It is worse than his hair.

It's that bad? I told you all I hate his hair. Like, I really can't. It is terrible, period. There are so many people who rely on the ability to get birth control, to receive information about their options if they are pregnant, and general health care that would be blocked from being able to do all of those things with this gag rule. The other really important thing to recognize is that for

a lot of people, this puts their plan, their ability to access Planned Parenthood in jeopardy. And Planned Parenthood for a lot of people is not just the place where you go to get reproductive health care, it's the place where you go to get health care, period. If you are uninsured, productive healthcare, it's the place where you go to get healthcare, period. If you are uninsured, if you do not have another provider in your region, if you are living in low-income circumstances, often if you are a woman of color, you are a person of color, you are dealing with these issues in a very acute way. And this stands in the way of all of that. But thematically, the thing that we keep hearing, not just from this administration, but from this party, is that the only people who deserve autonomy over their bodies are men. And like, we bring life into the world. And so I just don't know how those two things go

together. Alyssa? So I think the thing that's really important and that I wish that his supporters would hear is how dishonest this is. He's pandering to this religious space, right? But the Title X provisions serve 4 million Americans, 52% of which are people of color and minorities. And most of them are, a good percentage of them are rural. And it is where, as Brittany was saying, people get their actual health care. And the thing about it is that if you looked at what happened in the global gag rule, when people have done it in other countries,

maternal death rates go up, unintended pregnancies go up, and health clinics close. And so I guess I don't see in the last 30 years what benchmarks they have looked at to say this is a good idea. Teenage pregnancy is at an all-time low in the last 30 years. Like, they can go back to pretending like teenagers don't have sex if they want to, but this is literally unhealthy for lots of people, literally. I want to talk about the broader implications of this president's policy and beliefs on choice because Republicans are known for organizing and being active around making sure that judges,

they get the judges that they want. And we are now in a situation where if Justice Kennedy retires, if Ruth Bader Ginsburg retires. Don't you dare say that in this room. Don't you dare say it. And this president gets to nominate another Neil Gorsuch type justice. That is a real threat to Roe v. Wade in this country. Let's talk about the trigger laws. Do you guys know what trigger laws are? Okay, I'm going to tell you. So if Roe v. Wade were overturned, okay, if there was another judge,

if God forbid something happens to one of the justices that, you know, are care, happens to one of the justices that, you know, are care, and we have someone who's Gorsuch-esque, here's what would happen. In America, only 17 states have state laws that would protect abortion. So in 33 states, the trigger law would mean that the minute that the Supreme Court ruled, in 33 states, abortion would be illegal immediately. And that's a trigger law. And that's what so many people don't know. And it is why going to the, like like every single person has to register and has to vote because every judge in America is important. And what I would tell everyone, and I will share this on social media later, is to call your governors. Everyone should call their governor and see what would happen and what position their state would be in if Roe v. Wade were overturned, because it is so much more catastrophic than I think any of us really realize. And by the way, this is why the Senate

is so important to win back. And look, we've talked about this a lot. The Senate is going to be a much more uphill climb than the House to turn democratic because we're defending a lot of seats in some very tough states and some red states and we've got to flip a couple seats in some red states but if the democrats take the senate we they have the power to make sure there are no neil gorsuch's we can pull a mitch mcconnell at that point and hold the seat open until we get a democratic president and then ruth can finally rest and then ruth can open until we get a Democratic president. And then Ruth can finally rest. And then Ruth can finally rest. Like, give Ruth a break, right? Ruth Bader Ginsburg can finally order a fucking cheeseburger.

Seriously. The woman has been having green juice and kale salads for two full years. She thought she'd be out of here. She's supposed to be at the fucking beach. Hillary Clinton is supposed to be president right now, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg is supposed to be chilling the fucking beach. Hillary Clinton is supposed to be president right now, and

Ruth Bader Ginsburg is supposed to be chilling the fuck out. But she can't. And I've said it before, and I'll say it again, but if Ruth Bader Ginsburg has a walk-in tub, I'm gonna fucking lose it. If we don't take back the Senate, God forbid, I will put Ruth in, like, a

cryogenic chamber, like, paste that lace doily on top of it, God forbid, I will put Ruth in like a cryogenic chamber, like paste that lace doily on top of it and just like wheel her out there myself if I have to. Do those planks, Ruth Bader Ginsburg. And look, and I'll tell you. Work on that core. The core is key. You can't work out the hip, but you can work out the core. Keep everything else strong around the hip.

Do what it takes. Stay limber. Stay limber. Stay limber. A lot of people fall because they're shuffling. They're shuffling because their hamstrings are tight. Ruth. John Lovett's workout plan, everybody. You literally. Number 1,076 on Amazon's bestseller list.

You see old people shuffling. It's tight hamstrings. Ruth. The Save Roe v. Wade course on the Peloton bike. Honestly, the fourth most powerful person in the fucking world is Ruth Bader Ginsburg's bi-weekly trainer. God bless him. Well, look, and I'll tell you guys, too, this is why.

blessing um well look and i'll tell you guys too this is why in the senate we talk a lot on this about you know flipping texas better o'rourke winning um flipping arizona flipping nevada but claire mccaskill and joe donnelly and heidi heitkamp and Joe Manchin, all these senators who are in red states who sometimes take votes that we hate, that we're very annoyed about. They have to win because if there is a Supreme Court vacancy and it's a Republican Congress and it's a Republican Senate, then we are going to have a justice

that could overturn Roe v. Wade. So as odious as some of their votes are, we need a Democratic Senate. Yeah, and I just want to add to that too. This is so important. So first odious as some of their votes are, we need a Democratic Senate. Yeah, and I just would add to that too. This is so important. So first of all, also, by the way, if that were to happen, it'd be up to all of us to make sure they understand just how important that is. But there's a conversation inside the Republican Party, inside the conservative movement, and judges are central to that. It is the final card they play which is oh you think he's

bad how would have hillary how would hillary's judges have been oh you think he's bad he's loading up the conservative court the combination of reed getting rid of the filibuster uh for for lower court judges and the shit mcconnell pulled to keep a supreme court seat open for donald fucking trump has meant that they have been loading the court system with conservative judges that will have an impact for 30 years. And they all know it, and it is the final thing that the, you know, pro-Trump or soft pro-Trump conservative intellectuals throw at their adversaries inside their own movement.

If we win the Senate, they will lose that. And that is incredibly important, not just for protecting the country from these judges, but from stopping the Republicans, who out of selfishness and ideology have gone along with the Trump train. So, it's so fucking important, that's all.

But you knew that. Real quick, it's time for our Under the Radar segment, where everyone goes around and mentions the most important story we didn't get to cover um tommy start with you thank you so i don't know that it's under the radar but uh after declaring that everyone believes he deserves the nobel peace prize no bell no bell no president trump is now saying he doesn't know if his meeting with kim jung-un is going to happen um too bad they had all those coins made i know they got those cool coins he's he's blaming the chinese for kim's change of heart in a press conference yesterday he was sort of

like you know if it happens like i don't care it's no big deal um this was predictable he he took the meeting with no deliberation no no coordination with his team. They didn't try to make sure everyone's on the same page. He just wanted the headline. And so I personally would love, love to see the U.S. engage North Korea in a diplomatic process. But this is technical.

This is complicated. The details really matter. And what worries me is that if these talks fall apart and Trump's ego gets bruised, then what? He just tore up the Iran deal, and this week he sent out a Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo, to spell out their new plan, such as it is, and what that plan was was a wish list that said Iran should stop doing everything that they do that we don't like or else they will face sanctions or military force. And the problem with that is that the Europeans are rip shit pissed at us for tearing up the Iran

deal and they're not going to put on more sanctions. And the Russians and the Chinese sure as hell aren't going to pay attention to what he says about Iran. So that means we either back down or there's conflict. So this is very real, very scary stuff. And there are no adults in the room speaking out and navigating the very shallow, rocky waters of Trump's intellect and ego. very shallow, rocky waters of Trump's intellect and ego. And that is not good. And one last thing I just want to say, which is not my under the radar news, which I just want to thank the Wheeler family for being here tonight. They lost their son Ben at Sandy Hook, and they wake up every day and they live with that reality and they watch the news and they see Parkland and they see Santa Fe and they keep fighting and working to get real gun control passed.

And if they can wake up and fight for that, then we can too. So. Alyssa. Okay. What do you got for us? Let's talk about our Secretary of the Interior who wants to just burn down the park lands and give it to like developers and also does not have the love of animals that I do, I guess. So I just want everyone to know about this story in case you've missed it because obviously so many other insane things are happening.

On Monday, the secretary of the, who is known to have like mounted animal heads and a taxidermied bear in his office, he and the Trumps have decided that they're going to roll back the rules of the Obama administration, which precluded things like Things like mama bears with their cubs being shot in their dens. Coyote pups being shot in their dens. Bears being killed while they hibernate. Caribou who were swimming were not at the time under Barack Obama, Ken Salazar, and Sally Jewell. The caribou were not allowed to be shot while they swam by motorboats. And so the new Secretary of the Interior, Ryan Zinke, he's rolling back all of

those protections. And so it is his good idea that, especially in Alaska, but, you know, according to news reports to be rolled out to many other states, that animals can be killed in the most inhumane, brutal ways that we have sort of fought against for years, and that when we sort of, when the Obama rules came out, everyone was like, well, of course bears shouldn't be shot while they're hibernating. But that was before Don Jr. and Eric, and they just thought that, like, Cecil the Lion would have been such a good get.

So anyway, there is a petition that is, it's up for review. It's a 60-day review, this rule that they want to pass, and it's up for comment. I think that I was the first comment on the interior page. But I will, again again circulate it, but everyone should stop because there are so many terrible things happening that they think we don't see things like, you know, disgusting trophy hunting, like this isn't for people to eat. You know, this isn't for people who need food. These are for people who want to mount the shit on their walls. And so anyway, that's my under the radar story and follow me and I will circulate the petition that you two can sign.

Fuck these people. I miss the old days when you can shoot a buffalo from the train. Love it. What do you got for us? So we had a labor activist and expert named Saru Jayaraman on Love It or Leave It. And it blew my mind. So I learned a lot about this. So the current federal, so the minimum wage is the minimum wage, and we're all fighting for higher minimum wage. The federal minimum wage for tipped workers,

do you guys know what it is? It's two, wow, it's two dollars and thirteen13. 43 states have a minimum wage between $2 and $7. This is, I think, one of those issues where if Democrats really grabbed onto it, I think it would be obviously an important policy because we're talking about raising the wages for people that work for Olive Garden, that work for IHOP. Roughly 1 in 11 Americans work in a restaurant. Half of all Americans will at 11 Americans work in a restaurant. Half of all Americans will at some point work in a restaurant. 70% of tipped workers at restaurants are women.

40% are mothers. This is an economic issue. Over and over again, people who work in restaurants are some of the poorest working people in the United States, in part because we have this $2 minimum wage. And there are some states that have passed higher minimum wage, especially places like California. I think New York is in the process of raising their minimum wage for tipped workers.

But 43 states, again, it's between $2 and $7. I think that if Democrats started talking more about this, there are 12 million people, I think, that would come out to vote for a higher wage because they're currently working in restaurants. There are lots of people who no longer work in restaurants who remember what it was like to be harassed and underpaid and relying on tips. It's an antiquated system.

And we've talked a lot about the need to kind of have bigger and bolder ideas to think differently about politics because of what happened and the fact that someone like Donald Trump could become president. And I think one of those things that we need to think about is how to make people who are working every day, some of the poorest working people in the United States, feel as though politics is about them. And one of the ways we could do that is by raising the federal tipped wage above $2.13 an hour. And the restaurant industry, I am sure, will come back and say that, oh, this is about mom-and-top restaurants. There are exceptions you can do.

There are lots of things you can do. But this is about corporations that are making millions and billions and billions of dollars off the backs of poor working people. And they deserve a living wage so that tips are on top of what they earn and not instead of what they earn.

And I think more Democrats need to talk about it. It's helped them organize and win in Michigan. We stopped it when the Trump administration tried to get tips from people. And this is a kind of under the radar issue that I think could help get millions of people to the polls. That's it. Praise be. Really super fast to that. So we talked about that on Pad Save the People. And one of the things I learned after that, thanks to the internet and Twitter, is that one of the unintended ramifications of that can be that kitchen staff then get cut out of pay raises. So that doesn't mean that we shouldn't raise the tip minimum wage, because we absolutely should. It means that when Democrats write the laws on this,

they have to ensure that kitchen staff have access and guaranteed eligibility to pay rent. Absolutely. In addition to. Yeah, no, totally. Every stat I just said I stole from Sarah, so just hats off. Brittany, what do you got? Trust women.

I have that. I know you got something else, too. I do. Puerto Rico is what I have that. I know you got something else too. I do. Puerto Rico is what I have. We haven't heard much about Puerto Rico in a few months, and that might lead all of us to believe that everything is fine there since Hurricane Maria.

And I couldn't be further from the truth. So what is it? It's May 23rd right now. May 31st was the deadline, is still the deadline, to have restored 100% of power to all residents on the island. As of today, there are 14,500 people still without power, which means that less than 1% of energy customers actually have access to their power. So we're supposed to be at 100% in like a week, and we're at less than 1%. In addition, there's a lovely gentleman running for Congress in Florida, John, I don't remember his name, doesn't matter.

John, I don't remember his name, doesn't matter. He's running and he believes that the folks who had the access and privilege to actually be able to flee from Puerto Rico to Florida should not be able to vote when they get there, even though these people are American citizens. They're American. Not even trying to hide it. Not even, right? And he's probably like, MS-13.

Right, yeah, of course. And then on top of all of that, just two weeks ago, peaceful protesters who were in the streets protesting measures such as school closings and increased university tuitions and the cutting of several benefits were met with tear gas just two weeks ago. And I can personally tell you, tear gas is not fun. There are a couple of things that come to mind about this. One is that every single person there is a fellow American. And even if they weren't, they're fellow human beings. And if I'm honest, and if we're honest with ourselves, we can't blame Trump all the way for all of us having forgotten about Puerto Rico.

Like, that's on us. And I guarantee you that if we were talking about an island or a state full of white folks, we would not be having the same conversation. People would have their power. People would be—nobody would be questioning their vote. Nobody would be trying to close their schools or tear gassing them in the streets. Trump would be there every other Sunday at golf. Yes, because of the beautiful green pastures, yes. So the call to action here is to remember Puerto Rico, to remember our fellow citizens there. And after you go and donate to Stacey Abrams, which you need

to do, then your next piece of homework is to find local Puerto Rican charities and organizations that are doing the work down there and donate to them. Because it's really a shame that we haven't been continuing to talk about this.

And here's mine. So Democrats had a very big night on Tuesday, last night, and a bunch of primary elections across the country. I just want to give a few highlights. In Kentucky's 6th House districts, we nominated the first Marine woman to fly an F-18 jet, Amy McGrath. In Texas, we nominated a Democratic candidate who would be the first Latina and the first openly gay woman to serve as governor, Lupe Valdez.

We nominated a Filipina Air Force intelligence officer in the Texas 23rd named Gina Ortiz-Jones. In Georgia, gun reform activist Lucy Bath, the mother of Jordan Davis, goes to a runoff for the 6th House District. Unreformed activist Lucy Bath, the mother of Jordan Davis, goes to a runoff for the 6th House District. And we nominated a candidate who will be the first black female governor in American history, Stacey Abrams. Yes! Black girls sure do rock. So here's the deal. It was a good night for Democrats.

Turnout was up. But a lot of these places that all these people won are very red. And a lot of them start off as underdogs, a lot of these candidates. So we have a lot of work to do. We have 23 seats that we need to flip the House. There are five here in New York. There are five in New Jersey. That's ten right there. in New Jersey. That's 10 right there.

So, after you're done here tonight, go to swingleft.org and find the district closest to you and donate and sign up to help. For our California friends who are listening, go to crooked.com slash crooked8. We can flip seven, eight seats in California. And, if you live in New York, you can also go to vote.org

to make sure you are registered to vote. By June 1st is the deadline to vote in the June 26th primary right here in New York. Go register. Be a voter. John, can I just add? Yeah. And then we can take that gavel from Paul Ryan's fucking hands. Or whoever replaces him before then because he's a quitter. Or Kevin McCarthy.

Or Kevin McCarthy. We will be right back. He is a comedian, writer, friend of the pod, and the host of Late Night with Seth Meyers. Seth Meyers! How are you? Wonderful. It's nice to see you. Comfy chairs in a beautiful theater.

You were here ten days ago? Yes, I was here ten days ago for the NBC Upfronts. No big deal for this guy. Yeah, the highlight of my year. Recently, you said that you invited President Trump on your show, but future Supreme Court Justice Michael Cohen told you that you had to apologize on air first. Yes, I should point out the timeline of this. I ran into Donald Trump at the SNL 40th anniversary,

which was, I believe, 2014, around then. So we had a nice moment because he'd been mad at me since the Correspondents Dinner, you guys remember. Which will not be mentioned, yes. Where he'd often said I had, he'd said over the years and continues to say I have no talent. We actually had a nice moment where he shook my hand and leaned in and said, you do have talent. And then That's so Donald Trump. Yeah, it was, and I will say the man has charisma. I walked away being like, he's wonderful.

And then we talked to him about coming on the show because we thought obviously because of the history I had with him, he would make a good guest. And I talked to him on the phone once he had not announced that he was running for president. And he was saying to me, I, I might have a very interesting thing to say on your show. And I just didn't believe him. him. I should point out I was wrong at every turn about Donald Trump and what happened in 2016 but we were in discussions about having him on the show and then Michael Cohen was emailing with our talent coordinator

and basically said that he would come on $500,000 He said do you know the president of Ukraine? Can you hook me up? Can you put me in contact with him? No so they said will you say the president of ukraine can you hook me up can you put me in contact with him no so they said will you say because at this point he denounced will seth say he's ahead in the polls and of course we would that it was the news we were saying it without him being there and then

it was will he apologize publicly for the correspondence dinner and we just said no do you think it would be worth it I mean for you well I mean this one like do you think it'd be worth it to be like sorry and then get 15 minutes just push him on whatever you want yeah I don't you know I do believe like for example if he was here like do you think there's actually a interview of value to have with him you know I think that every time yeah he does he would cut off. Every time he's been anywhere, people afterwards, I think, are critical of how he was handled.

But I think there's a myth that there's this unicorn interview with him where he's going to say, oh, now that you put it like that, I do feel bad. Right. Right. I do feel guilt about my actions.

Maybe. So one thing that we struggle with on the pod is just sort of the sheer speed and volume of the news coming out of the White House. How do you guys decide every night what it is you cover? And how much do you think that the insane sort of sped up news cycle

is contributing to our ability to figure out what's important and what's not? Well, I think, you know, particularly with the first act of our show, we do try to slow it down enough to say here is what, at least from our perspective, was the most important 10 minutes we can tell you about in the limited time we have. And, you know, the guy who writes Closer Look for us

is this fantastic writer named Sal Gentile. And so he's the one who's sort of making a decision based on what's happening on any given day as far as what we can focus on. And now I should point out, he does try to focus on the things that we think are funnier as well. You know, there are sometimes stories in the news that the reality is we don't think we can pull laughs out of them. And then because we're a comedy show, we leave that to the rest of you. But the rest of the news shows, I should say. So for us, it is just, again,

there are days where it's hard to figure out what it is, and then there are days where Giuliani goes on TV and you say, there it is. We got it. We got it. Rudy, late night's mayor. A comedian named Michelle Wolf did the correspondence. Yeah, give it up for Michelle, everybody.

Did the White House Correspondence Dinner recently. She was tough on the Trump administration. She was tough on Sarah Sanders. She told a lot of jokes that felt honest, I think, to those who are outside of the Washington bubble but were treated as maybe overly harsh um from your perspective how do you think she did uh and like what did you make of the press corps reaction to a set from a comedian well first of all you know I know Michelle I've been lucky enough to work with her I knew exactly anyone

who's ever seen Michelle do anything knew that's what she would do. Yeah. So, you know, for, you know, for a press corps, they did a terrible job checking their sources. You know, there was footage that was available. So I thought she did a great job. You know, I thought it was actually a pretty interesting gambit for the White House to send Sarah Huckabee Sanders, because I think most comedians I don't know if I was there, if I would have had the nerve to go after someone who was sitting there, who worked for the administration, because she's not the president, you know, the president's one thing to go after, but I knew Michelle would have the guts to do it, which was, you know, she was, yeah, Michelle was kryptonite to whatever gambit sarah huckabee sanders was to to being there and uh yeah i was really disappointed with the reaction of a lot of people in the press corps

um you know i think there's a fundamental misunderstanding as to what comedians are and and more importantly how little how few fucks comedians give for what you're trying to do yeah you know when people are saying you know the whole point of this night how little, how few fucks comedians give for what you're trying to do. Yeah. You know, when people are saying, you know, the whole point of this night is these shitty awards we give out that nobody's watching. I shouldn't say the awards are shitty. Great work is being done. But nobody ever talks about that part of the night. If the night's about rewarding the great journalism that's being done,

reframe the night. Right. Worse than that, the journalists, these awards are being given to these kids, these scholarships, and people are just chit-chatting throughout the entire thing. Like literally no one is paying attention. No one, only 70% of the people are paying attention when the comedian's talking. Yeah, it's a tough room. Yeah. So you obviously talk and joke about politics every night, but do you have political goals goals like when you guys do the closer look segments are you what are you hoping that people walk away with i would be happy if they walked

away a little bit more informed it strikes me that one of the reasons that people listen to this podcast is they want more information i think that looking back at the last election maybe people didn't have as much information as certainly i would have wanted them to have and so that's what we're hoping to do and look people say to me all the time i'm assuming they say to you all the time do you really think you're changing anybody's minds i don't think that's the goal i think the goal is hopefully to change people's minds uh between the differences not voting and voting like that's a mind i think we can change but you're you're someone who even among late night hosts is very interested in politics like what got you so interested in politics i think it helped that i uh i grew up in new hampshire and so yeah live free or die everybody um we and i grew up near manchester new hampshire and so

that was a town that was big enough, a city that was big enough that candidates actually came through. And for me, the fact that people would speak in my high school and then SNL would do skits about them that week, sketches about them that week, was a perfect coalescing of two worlds I cared about. You mentioned SNL and changing minds. I mean, Tina Fey's impersonation of of sarah palin like seemed like it impacted the public's perception

of her in like a real lasting way uh the the steve bannon in the mask as the real president while trump sort of like was lying at the piano is said to have infuriated Trump to the point where it hastened Bannon getting fired. But the Alec Baldwin impression of Trump, do you think that that has moved the needle at all? Or is he just like inoculated by decades in the spotlight? Yeah, it might be that so many people have done impressions of him now that it doesn't matter. I will say thewin impression was a perfect

impression for if he lost right uh you know who knows what the legacy of sarah atina's sarah impression would have been if mccain won right and that she had to keep doing it i mean i think she just would have stopped coming um but uh you know so i think that's part of it is that we're we're dealing with the long tail of an impression that, you know, so many of us didn't think would ever have to go on this long. When you're that good at an impression, is Lauren like, you don't get to stop doing this?

Yeah, well, I think he seems to, I mean, I'm sure he's talking with Alec week to week trying to convince him to come back, yeah. I heard you say that... The funny thing is, Trump would do it. Like, Trump would play himself on SNl that's what's so hard you know like it's hard to impersonate him yeah no he would do it and like if you gave him like 10 shitty things for him to say about himself you could like negotiate it down to four and then he would still say like he'd make four jokes at his own expense

um i've heard you say that you know both democratic and republican politicians have this problem where they talk like robots when they go on yeah it was like your bad talk show guests who um who do you think was one of some of the worst perpetrators of that and who do we think it's actually really authentic surprised you that seemed like they were a normal human being well i was just saying this backstage because this is surprising and i don't think it will lead to a round of applause in this house ted cruz was a great talk show really yeah ted cruz is oh wow look what do you know i predicted it so um ted cruz is not married to the script. No matter how reprehensible you find his politics, the guy's an intelligent guy who can,

you can ask him questions and he will actually listen to the question and answer the question you asked. Whereas a lot of politicians will answer the question they wish you'd asked. Right. And then if you don't stop them, they'll do it twice.

Right. Yeah. I'm going to get that message point and reward them for that. And John Kasich was bad the first time and better the second time. Because I think he watched the first time and realized that, you know, meet the press energy on a late night talk show is a missed opportunity. It's just, it's so bad because on our end, because we, you know,

when you're working for the politician, everyone's like, oh, Obama's going on a late show. Like, we should come up with some lines for him. And at least he would be like, I don't think this is going to work that well. I don't think we do. You don't bring lines to a late night show. Lindsey Graham definitely brought five lines and there was no way he wasn't getting them out. And I will say, I think it was a shame because I bet Lindsey Graham unscripted is better. Yeah.

Seems like he could be a funny guy. Yeah. Seems like a sassy guy to have on a late night talk show. You have graciously agreed to stick around for a game. So excited. We have a little bit of a game. John Lovett. So excited.

Unless you're going to join us. Now for a game we call OK Stop. Here's how it works. We roll a clip, and when we want to, we say OK Stop to talk about it. Tucker Carlson. Never been on my show, but I bet he'd be great. He's best known as the man who holds the Guinness record for fastest transition from bow-tie-wearing CNN conservative

to white nationalist. It just took an offer from Fox, and the change was instant. Usually he's talking about immigrants and how men have it worse than women, but this past week, he turned his sights on the Russia investigation, and Tucker is incredulous. Let's roll the clip.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. So, two questions. He was rewarded. One, do we have the third question? Okay, stop. I hate how much I look like both of these guys. It really, that really sucks.

Are you our Tucker Carlson? I want to be like, oh, look at these fucking... How was the golf game? Honestly, if someone were to hand Tommy... If Tommy's fingers touch a bow tie, we've lost him. See, what I like about the way Tucker Carlson looks is he could only be named Tucker Carlson. Yeah.

Like, if a guy who looked like that came up to you at a barbecue and said, hey, my name's Dave, you'd be like, Carlson. Yeah. Like if a guy who looked like that came up to you at a barbecue and said, hey, my name's Dave, you'd be like, fuck you, Tucker. Russia ever come up with those? We're still... Oh, no, they didn't actually. Do you know that fact? Well, we haven't seen them.

Let's let the Mueller investigation continue. Okay, maybe Mueller's in contact with the Russians, but Trump didn't come up with those from the Russians. So that didn't happen. Okay, maybe Mueller's in contact with the Russians, but Trump didn't come up with those from the Russians. Okay, stop. I just... Again, to Seth's point, it does feel as though Tucker Carlson is about to open a drawer. You did it like me.

The closer I get to Long Island, the worse it gets. It does seem like Tucker's about to open a drawer to show you some scrimshaw on an elephant's tusk, but also, the point he's making is, yeah, Trump asked the Russians to hack, but did we ever get those emails? As if attempted bank robbery is fine If Trump was gonna still an attempt there, right, okay, but you can

Would you do I'm gonna hate to inject common sense into this Would you do it to make secret contact with Russia, your handlers back in Moscow. Wouldn't you dial them up in the shortwave in the basement? Okay, stop. Okay, stop. Go ahead, Tommy. Go ahead, Tommy. The NSA literally sent messages to a Russian contact that claimed to have files that were hacked and stolen from them via their Twitter feed.

This happened. The scenario that he's painting is crazy and never would have happened. Happened like this year. Now you see why I get mad on Twitter. Sorry, Alyssa. No, I was just going to say they know everything they know from Trump's burner phones, so it doesn't even matter.

Oh, yeah. We didn't talk about the phone tonight. The burner phones. Trump's phone that has no security on it whatsoever that everyone is listening on. whatsoever. At all. That everyone is listening on. He just like buys them from the kiosk in the mall, uses them for a couple days and then he's like

He wants to shoot the shit with Tom Barrack about North Korea. He just like sends them in an envelope over to Russia and he's like I'll do the work for you. Coded message in the middle of a joke at a press conference? I'm not saying he's the smartest guy in the world, Tucker. Where's the actual proof that something happened after more than a year of this?

Well, I'm not the prosecutor. I don't have subpoena power. Bob Mueller does. All I'm saying is... You do have a high-level security clearance and you're on the Intel Committee, so presumably you'd have more than, like, a clip of him at a...

Okay, stop. They both look like murderers in Lifetime movies. So, I think, actually, I think Eric Swalwell, who's got to work on that last name, is doing great here. But actually this goes to what we were talking about earlier, which is Tucker's whole thing is, where's the crime? Where's the issue? It's been a year of this. What's going to happen? And this is why.

The fact that someone like Tucker Carlson is there to be like there's no they're there am i crazy i'm trying to use common sense when there are as john said 75 charges 22 people charge five guilty pleas it's like it's like where it's smoke yeah but where's the fire you're on fire also this whole idea of where's the evidence, Tucker's talking about it like it's a trial, but it's an investigation. Right. Like, we're looking for evidence. Like, Tucker's like a guy, it would be like if the cops are looking for a body in the woods,

and Tucker's like, we haven't found it yet, let's go home. Let's go home, don't look over there. And don't look at the guy I'm propping up, who I'm telling you is just tired. But again, we have 20-plus indictments and five guilty pleas already. It's not like it could have been fine to have a year of an investigation and still haven't found anything yet because you're still looking. But we actually have people that are getting sentenced and going to jail.

I got to tell you, I think Papadopoulos' lawyer is pretty sure they found something. And so I've seen in an unclassified manner. So I'm telling you that all of that warrants looking at whether we could prove beyond a reasonable doubt conspiracy to defraud the United States. Aren't we working on that? I mean, we've been working on that for a long time. Okay, stop.

I think right now Eric Swalwell is like, I don't think I should do this show again. I feel like I need to talk to my staff and tell them, you know what, I don't think I achieved any goals here. We're going to the belly of the beast here. Yeah, the belly of the beast. Never go there. The destruction that we continue to see,

the continued undermining, the trying to... So that's it? That's all you got? No, no, no. Okay, stop. I thinkucker just loads up his scoffs in the morning like he's like i'm gonna scoff like 50 to 60 times today and then he invites people on his show that he knows disagree with him and he's blown away when they disagree with him i bet tucker goes to like starbucks orders a pizza, and when they say we don't have it, he's like, what?

Huh? Okay, so you're telling me, okay, you don't have pizza. Great. Well, good to know. Now I'm glad I know. You don't have pizza. But I'm going to come back tomorrow and try to order a pizza. Yeah, he's going to be back tomorrow.

Tell me. I'm waiting. Because I want to look. If he's. It's right in front of your nose, Tucker. Tell me what it is. It's right in front of your nose. Is it another press conference he gave with more secret messages?

Or tell me. Again, Tucker, when we look back on this in 25 years, we're going to be amazed at how much of it was right in front of us. So they're hacking. We're all speaking Chinese at that point. And we're like, people thought Russia was the threat. Isn't that weird? I want to say one thing, which is Eric Swalwell, I applaud you.

You gave it your all. I think that as far as going into Tucker Carlson, I watched the whole thing, and it's longer. And I think that in terms of going into Tucker Carlson's little layer there, where Tucker Carlson's whole thing is, I'm going to do the pizza Starbucks thing for 15 minutes. No matter what you say, he held his own. He made some good points, and I think he changed zero lines.

In 25 years, Tucker's going to look back and say, what was I thinking? Joke's on me. I'll swallow well that ends well. That shit is all day in the Crooked Media office. All day. Okay, to your rapturous applause, we'll say, that's okay, stop.

Guys, give it up for Seth Meyers. Thank you so much for being here. When we come back, Questlove's going to join us for a game. And we're back! He's a drummer, DJ, producer, author, and a founding member of The Roots, the house band on The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon on NBC. His new book, Creative Quest, is a New York Times bestseller and out now. Please welcome Questlove.

Give it up for Questlove, who agreed to DJ this show. So cool that you're here. It's much cooler than we are. Much cooler than some of us are. Hi, guys. How you doing? I don't mean it. So some things are synonymous with New York City. The Yankees. Boo.

Or if you're not an oligarch, the Mets. Radio City Music Hall, pizza without a chip on its shoulder, Connecticut, Chicago, whatever. There's the Statue of Liberty. There's the CrossFit gym where Don Jr. makes people Instagram him.

But nothing defines New York City more than its historic subway. And I say historic because it's an ancient ruin. Look at this fantastic ancient relic called the subway. Who built it? Was it aliens? How did it work? The sorry state of New York's public transportation is more than just a backdrop for Cynthia Nixon's campaign ads. It's part of a larger story of just how much we have neglected our roads

and trains and airports and public transit systems all over America, and since it is infrastructure week, probably. Again? It is. It's always infrastructure week somewhere. We thought we should explore the sorry state of our transportation network in a game we're calling,

I'm Walking Here. Because the trains aren't running. Would anyone out there like to play the game? Hello. Hi. Hi, what's your name? Brian. Brian.

Are you ready to play the game? John, I'm ready. Great. Question number one. Which of the following is true about the New York City subway system? Is it A. New Yorkers have the longest average commute time in the country, which could explain why everyone is constantly giving each other the middle finger. Is it B.

The New York subway is less reliable than any other major transit system in the world, and only 65% of weekday trains arrive on time. This is one key driver of people listening to more podcasts, and is therefore good. Is it C? New York C train cars are the oldest and continuous daily operation anywhere in the world. They break down 12 times as often as the average car in the system. That's why the C-Train has been renamed the Giuliani line. Or is it D?

While no one has studied this, it seems like the number of people cutting their nails on the subway has skyrocketed, and this shit has to stop. No one is that busy. No one is that busy. What are you up? What are you doing? Brian? I'm going to guess B.

That's all of the above. Brian. That was a hard one. Was it? Yes. Yes it? Yes. You haven't given me the option. Brian, question number two. Redemption.

According to the American Society of Civil Engineers, the United States is short $2 trillion in infrastructure funding. By 2025, this will set the U.S. economy back $3.9 trillion and cost us 2.5 million jobs. But Trump's infrastructure plan says that new projects will be approved mostly on the basis of how much private funding they're able to generate. In other words, public goods like clean water, safe bridges, and efficient public transit will take a backseat to projects that will give investors higher returns. What's the problem? Is it A? investors higher returns. What's the problem? Is it A? Because more than 40 city bridges are rated fracture critical and structurally deficient and over 2 million cars drive on them daily, which is a time bomb waiting to happen. Is it B? Because over 40% of Manhattan roads are

substandard, which means that if roads were sports teams, Manhattan would be home to some substandard team like the Red Sox or the Patriots. Imagine. Imagine. Hold on. Imagine if New York City had to deal with a team like the Red Sox

or the Patriots. Don't you all go to Boston tomorrow? We're going to Boston tomorrow. Tomorrow in Boston he'll be wearing his Red Sox. Or the Patriots. Don't you all go to Boston tomorrow? Yeah. We're going to Boston tomorrow. But tomorrow in Boston he'll be wearing his Red Sox hat. I'm sorry. I got a little excited. Because we were talking about Boston. Or is it C? Because if the

roads are shitty, there's no way for that racist lawyer who got mad about people speaking Spanish to get the fuck out of New York. Or is it D? Because I don't know if you noticed, but trains have been derailing like every day and that's fine and cool when it happens in movies, but

it's pretty terrifying when Spider-Man isn't around to web the train back together. I'm going to say all of the above, John. You got it. Yeah, thank you. Brian. Question number three.

In 2017, a survey of subway riders found that 74% of riders have been late for a work meeting because of delays on the subway. What is a serious consequence of this tardiness? Is it A? Because if you're late for your work meeting, that means you have to stay even later at the office,

which means you have to push back your goat yoga session tonight. And you already bought tickets like ages ago, and you've bailed on Betsy like four times already, and you know how Betsy gets when you bail on her. She can be a lot. And to be honest, you just can't deal with that right now because you're like really busy. Or is it B?

Your boss, who pretends to be chill but is actually a tyrant, makes a joke about how you're blaming the subway again and says it's totally fine and he gets it, but deep down you know it's not fine, but what are you going to do, leave your house earlier? Nah, son. Nah. What, are we going to leave our houses earlier?

Is it C? I mean, strictly from an L.A. perspective, I'd say there really aren't any consequences of being late. And honestly, you guys in New York are just way too focused on this stuff. I mean, what's the big rush? Just paddle out past the breakers, let the waves wash over you, brah. Try being present for once.

Appreciate the now. Also, I don't know about vaccines, but crystals can cure cancer. Or is it D? New York City's independent budget office estimates that all these delays cost the city's economy around $300 million every single year. It's definitely not C, so it's got to be D. You got it, Brian. Question number four. New York City transit.

It's bad. Who's to blame? Stop. Is it A? Chris Christie, who killed a plan to build new tunnels from New Jersey to ease the burden on the North River Tunnel. Is it B? Donald J. Trump, who scaled back funding for the same tunnel,

setting back hopes even further. Is it C? Super lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who in 1994 cut the city's contribution to the MTA by $400 million to avoid raising taxes. Is it C? Is it D? Is it E? Is it F? or provide funding to address delays. Is it F? George Sputaki, who eliminated all state subsidies for the MTA, forcing the MTA to rely only on fares, tolls, and taxes.

He also redirected $850 million in tax dollars that was supposed to be used for transit and instead refinanced the MTA's debt using Bear Stearns, which made the bond underwriters $85 million but really screwed over the MTA, especially during that little thing called the 2008 financial crisis. Is it G, Andrew Cuomo, who has frequently diverted MTA money to other projects, like the $5 million he took from the MTA to help run a state-run ski resort, and spend money putting up new signs and adding Wi-Fi instead of making much-needed safety repairs to trains

and stations? Is it I, Washington journalist who spent more time covering the minutiae of political fights than important policy proposals. Is it J? The Republican Congress, which spent most of the Obama administration blocking upgrades to our infrastructure, including an infrastructure bank and a national high-speed rail network. Is it K?

A generation that took advantage of interstate highways and the public works of their parents, but those little ingrates spent that inheritance on lower taxes and cuts to public goods even as our roads and bridges and airports and transit systems crumbled around us. Wonder what generation that was. Was it L?

Again, the people who cut their nails on the train because honestly, what the fuck, guys? Who's to blame, Brian? It's a tough one, John. I'm going to have to go all of the above once who's to blame brian it's a tough one john i'm gonna have to go all of the above brian you got it it is all of the above brian you've won i'm walking here because the trains aren't running give it up to brian for playing the game thank you to quest love for playing and for DJing this show.

When we come back, we'll be back with an interview. All right. And we're back. And we're back. Thank you. She is an investigative journalist who covers civil rights and racial injustice for the New York Times Magazine. She's a 2017 MacArthur Fellow, which means we just have met two geniuses, whose reporting has also won a Peabody Award, the George Polk Award, and the National Magazine Award. She's a total badass.

Please welcome Nicole Hannah-Jones. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Seth Meyer, Questlove, and some chick who writes for the New York Times. Not some chick, a whole genius. We're excited to talk to you a little bit about your work. Before we dive into some of your reporting, I would love to talk to you about an organization that you founded called the Ida B. Wells Society.

And if you all don't know who Ida B. Wells is, perhaps you can talk a little bit about the legend and trailblazer that she was. But you founded it in order to increase the number of people of color doing investigative journalism, which is obviously critically important. But what's your vision in 20 years, in 30 years? What do you want to be different about the news? Because there are more folks of color doing that kind of reporting. Absolutely. So if you don't know who Ida B. Wells

was, she was the most badass reporter of the 19th century. She was a woman who was born into slavery, who went on to investigate the true causes of lynchings of black Americans. She had her newspaper burned down in Memphis. She was run out of Memphis. She went on to help co-found the NAACP. She was a suffragist. When white suffragists try to segregate, suffragist marches, she elbowed her way to the front of the line because she refused to be segregated. Yeah, I could go on and on. She hyphenated her name.

Loving those that way. It's time for the crudite. Right. Backstage. I won't be held back from the crudite. I will have equal access to the crudite. Exactly. She fought for that, too.

But she also, you know, until recently, most people had never heard of her. She was, as many black women, cast to the shadows of history, and her true role in investigative reporting was denied. So in 2016, myself and three other black investigative journalists founded the Ida B. Wells Society for Investigative Reporting because we were tired of being the only black investigative journalist that we saw. And that matters because I think it's clear in Trump's America that investigative reporting is the most critical reporting that happens in a democracy.

It's the reporting that holds power to account that uncovers the way that power is wielded against vulnerable people and who in this country are more vulnerable than people of color. But the people who are often doing this work don't come from those communities, don't have the same access to those communities, and so we decided that we were going to change that, that we were tired of the excuses, which we have all heard in any organization that claims it wants diversity, is we really want it, but we just can't find anyone. That's bullshit. It is.

And so we decided we're going to train and mentor journalists of color to become investigative reporters so that when we hear in three years, five years, ten years that we can't find anyone, we can give you a long list of people because we have trained them ourselves. Awesome. Awesome. And a lot of the reporting that you have been doing as of late has been focused on school segregation. And you recently talked about the journey of finding a school for your own daughter. I'll never forget, my mother went to private schools in St. Louis where I grew up, decided to send myself and my brother to private schools. When I asked her a couple months ago if she had it to do all over again, if she would have made that choice, she said, I probably would have homeschooled you just because of all of the different challenges

that young people of color endure in school settings. And so as you were going through this journey yourself, can you talk a little bit about where you and your husband landed on where she would go and how challenging was that journey for you? Sure. So this is the part where like all the white people in the audience who have been on the right side of this I'm about to show you how you're on the wrong side of this issue right so ain't that what Alyssa says right so everyone in here I imagine thinks of themselves as very progressive yet we live in the third most segregated city in the country and we have the most segregated large public school system in the country which means when it comes down to actually living the values that you espouse in a very intimate way which is where do you live and where do you send your children to school most of the

people I would say in this audience and in the city don't live their values so that's just the truth of the work that I do don't cheer send your kids to school with black kids so I've written written about school segregation my entire career, and most of the time that I wrote about it, I didn't have a child. And as we all know, it's very easy to have values and to say what you believe in when you don't actually have a child that you have to enroll in schools. We moved to New York, again, one of the most segregated school districts, and suddenly we're confronted with the question of where were we going to send our own child to school? Were we going to send her to a school that looked like the neighborhood we lived in? We live in Bedford-Stuyvesant,

of course, a high-poverty black neighborhood. That's right, Brooklyn is the only borough. And we had to decide if we were going to do what most middle class parents do, which is use their advantage to get their kids away from poor black kids. And we decided we weren't going to do that with our daughter. So the piece that I wrote in 2016 was about segregation in a liberal city, but also our decision to send our child to a high poverty segregated school. Because I truly don't believe that my child deserves more than any other child. And I think until more of us do with our actions what we say we believe, then we are either choosing to sustain a system of vast inequality for those children who have always been disadvantaged,

or we can choose to do things that will break that system down, and that's what we tried to do. What do you say to, I think there's a lot of people who would say like I want to do the right thing and I want to help build an education system that's fair and more equitable but I have to choose where my kids go based on the system as it exists right now and I want my politics to make the world better but I have to choose where my kids go based on the system as it exists right now. And I want my politics to make the world better, but I have to send my kids to a school as the world exists right now. What do you say to parents struggling with that difference?

What I say is you cannot say that you want equality yet seek to advantage your own child in every way. Those two things are actually in direct conflict. And I'm not pretending that it's easy. If you read the piece that I wrote in 2016, I talk about it. My husband and I argued about this. We had a lot of fears, the same fears that every parent has. You feel guilt, right?

You, as a parent, feel like I have to try to do everything to give my child the best of everything. But if we do that, then we have to understand that the system we have now will always exist. And that what we are saying is that for those of us whose children already have every advantage, the most important thing is keeping all of that advantage and denying even a semblance of that advantage to those kids who have been disadvantaged generationally. I understand that most people are still going to make that choice to advantage their child. I see my work as saying I'm going to at least force us to confront the hypocrisy of that, to hold up the mirror and acknowledge we actually don't want equality.

So it's not easy. I know right now there are people who are like, wait till our daughter gets to middle school, then she's not going to live her values. People who are hoping that I will fail to live my values. I think about my daughter, and if someday she will ask me, like, mom, what the fuck were you doing? But the truth is, these are children.

And children who score lower on test scores aren't scoring lower because they don't care or because they're dumb. It's because they clearly don't get the same education as those of us who have privilege can ensure that our children get. And we need to share that advantage. Because the difference is, the difference is, do I give up a little bit of advantages that I can make up for? I can give my child tutoring. I can take her to every museum. I can give her everything.

I can make up that advantage. But for the poor black or brown child, the public school might be the only shot that they have of a decent life. And we who have privilege want to take that, too. And I think that's unfair. We're in a capitalist country. If you want to buy the best education you can with your money, feel free. But these are tax-funded public schools. And just because you're rich, you shouldn't get exclusive access to the best schools.

We've seen in just the past couple weeks protests emerging across the country against underfunded public schools from Oklahoma to Kentucky to West Virginia. And these are protests about, not about inequities within the public schools, but about the lack of funding, the lack of teacher salaries, pension issues, writ large across the school systems.

And these are teachers protesting for every school, every student. At the same time, you're talking about inequities within the public school system. How do you strike that balance? Because it seems like one of the ways in which you can get parents to care more about inequities of the system, or at least take them on, is by making every school better, right? I mean, what is the balance between making the whole system better while solving inequality within the system? So, one, I think we should understand that the struggles that we're seeing across the country of underfunding of public schools is a direct result of Brown v. Board and the desegregation of schools. As we start to see white Americans

having to share educational spaces, you see a withdrawal of support of public education. That is directly linked, even in places where there are not a lot of black kids. It is that understanding that once black children get access to those spaces, then suddenly we don't support. And you can look at it in terms of public pools, public parks, public hospitals, any place where after the civil rights movement, black people gained access, you started to see a loss of support. So these things are directly connected. But that also shows how the fates of all of us are connected, that you can't contain that lack of investment in schools only to black schools, that it becomes a problem for all Americans,

no matter what their colors are, if we decide that public institutions are no longer important. So I think that is the beauty of integration, is that it ties our fates together. We know that from the founding of this country, even before this country, when we decided that black people were going to be a cast of people who didn't have humanity, who didn't have citizenship, that anytime we have isolated black people or rest away from those who have power in this country, we have declined to give them the same resources or access as other people. When you tie our fates together, that means you can't deprive a black child of a textbook, a teacher, a teacher. Like I'm in schools where there's no teacher in the classroom. If your little child is in that class with that black child too, you will best be sure that if a

white child is in that class with that black child, the black child is going to get what that white child always gets. So it's not to say that there aren't struggling schools that are white because there clearly are. But what it is to say is if there's a black school nearby, that black school will always have less. And that's why we have to tie our faiths together. If we are to be truly a multiracial democracy, and, you know, the odds are not in white folks' favor anymore, numerically. Who's going to pay your Social Security? Who's going to pay for all of the things that we need if we are depriving now 50% of the children born are people of color of a proper education? So, as Malcolm X would say,

one day our chickens are going to come home to roost if we continue to pretend that black and brown children are not as worthy of the same education that white people demand for their children. I want to hopefully end on an up note. You got the wrong person. Well, no, I mean, but, you know, we are indebted to you for holding up the mirror to us, even if we don't want to look and see what's in it. Thank you. And yet holding up the mirror

hopefully at least gives us some vision into what can work even if it isn't working. And so I would just love to know from you as we close out what good things are you hopeful about? And especially if there's a good thing that you are certain about. We'd love to hear that.

She's like, oh, maybe, girl. Any TV shows you like? Oh, no. Maybe that's easier. Have you watched the season of Atlanta? No. So in general, I leave hope to other people. Because I'm always looking at, you know at the long arc of history

which I say is actually a circle that keeps turning back on itself. Oh man. The arc of history is long and it bends back to the beginning. Exactly. Hard to argue. The one thing though that I will say

is when I first did my first year-long investigation in school segregation, which was about four years ago, I set up a Google alert on school segregation and every search term having to do with school segregation. And I could go a couple months without a single article coming up. We weren't talking about it. We figured it was a settled issue. We were done. I get several Google alerts every day. We have a new superintendent or chancellor in New York City

schools who is about it on this issue, at least appearing, who's pushing back against, you know, affluent white parents who have had outsized control in the school district. I think all over the country, I give talks every single week to communities who want to grapple with this issue. I don't think that we will ever do right by black children in this country, but I think we are certainly at a place where we cannot ignore it and pretend that we are progressive people. Well, us grappling with that truth is doing a large part to you and your work. So thank you for holding up the mirror. Thank you for the work you do every day. Thank you for joining work you do every day. Thank you for joining us at Pod Save America.

Nicole Hannah-Jones, everyone. Guys, give it up again for Nicole Hannah-Jones. We'll be right back. All right, everyone. We want to just leave you with one final piece of wisdom about the upcoming midterm elections. We have a clip. But if Democrats gain power, they will try to reverse these incredible gains.

These are historic gains. They will try and reverse many of them. So your vote in 2018 is every bit as important as your vote in 2016. Although I'm not sure I really believe that, but, you know. Oh. I don't know who the hell wrote that line. I'm not sure. Look at Charles Presley.

There he is. Okay, stop. We're going to play that ad all over the country. Thank you, everyone, for coming. Please remember to go to swingleft.org, find your local district, go to vote.org, make sure you're registered, and go find 10 friends and make sure they're registered, too. Thank you, New York. You've been great. Thank you. Thank you, New York. You've been great. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Bye.