Pod Save America - LIVE(ish) from the Obama Presidential Center

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

Jon, Lovett, Tommy, and Dan record from Chicago after the dedication ceremony of the Obama Presidential Center, reacting to Barack and Michelle Obama's speeches, what it felt like to walk through the museum for the first time, and what lessons Democrats in the Trump era can take from Obama. Then, they react to the emerging details of Donald Trump's MOU with Iran, which he signed at the Palace of Versailles, JD Vance's efforts to seem like a normal person during his book tour, and why the algae in the Reflecting Pool is such an apt metaphor for Trump's presidency.

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Just visit Simplysafe.com slash crooked. That's half off at Simplysafe.com slash crooked. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favro. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. I'm John Lovett. Tommy Bouture.

We are coming to you from the Obama Presidential Center in Chicago. I think this is the first ever podcast recorded from the Obama Presidential Center. I just made that up. Yeah. But I think it's great. I mean, it opened today. That's what I'm saying. It opened today.

So I think that we... Yeah. How are you? That's my... Nice. It's really good. And it's really good. Thank you.

This is the president... You just the beautiful presidential reading room in the branch of the Chicago Public Library. We don't see our book. Yeah. What the thing? You should probably donate one. Maybe the children's section here. Do we see Dan's books anywhere?

I don't see Dan's book? I've heard rumors that our books are in here, but I can't. Oh, I see life of pie. Anyway, we'll come back to this. I see what it takes. Oh, I see my book right there. Oh, wow. Two over from what it takes.

Now, if you're just listening on the audio, I know this is riveting. Us looking around at the books. Hey, let's, hey, let's stop navel gazing about the books and start navel gazing about the event. So we just came. from the event and we just toured the museum for the first time were we calling a museum the center the center library yeah yeah it's a i think it's it's the obama presidential center is the official name and we just we just took a little tour what you guys think not of the event of the of what we just saw on all the the all the floors stand it's i mean obviously very emotional for us to walk through it and see from the

beginning of the campaign through the white house the good moments the bad moments but it's i mean it's really it's very very powerful yeah love it what how do you feel about what you tried so hard to stop from happening? Yeah, I mean, look, I think. So poorly trying to. Yeah. I think that the beginning of the museum about the ways in which I couldn't prevent this from happening, as you move up through the floors, I become more and more excited to be a part of it.

Every time we went by an exhibit and wanted to like take a picture there, I love it would say like, no, no, no, this is stolen valor. I can't. Yeah. Before, yeah, as you get into the administration, then I feel like I can celebrate. But when it's, you know, the sign seal delivered speech in New Hampshire, I feel like, well, it's kind of another side of that. But it was weird when he started yelling about caucus rules. That was strange.

Yeah, superdelegates are they're legitimate, the superdelegates. It's part of the process. Respect the process. But it's strange to see something set up. It's great to experience it for us, but it isn't really set up for us. It's set up to kind of take people through something they might not know about. And it is set up for a longer timeline. it's set up for people to experience over a very long time.

And it is interesting to see things you experience written in just such a declarative past tense. Like, this is what happened. This was the history of this moment. It's history now. It's history. We're so old. Our jobs in a museum. Yeah, that is true.

Tommy, what did you think? I mean, the museum's amazing. Everyone should come check it out. Michelle Obama talked about how they wanted it to be interactive. So there's lots of exhibits and speeches and stories of individual people, but you can shoot hoops. And we're literally in a library where you can take out a book or you can hang on to do a picnic. I think the thing that's been amazing for me and emotional is just all the people we've gotten to just run into. It's like when I go back to D.C., you run into a lot of people.

And a lot of the time you don't want to run into them. Here I've run into a lot of people. And every time it's like, I'm so excited to see this person. It's a blast from the past. Like, Hannah and I were dealing with a snafu on our bracelets to get in. And we ended up in a 10-minute line behind Adderall McRaven. And I was like, oh, Hannah, this is the guy who did the bin Laden operation. Like, that's a conversation you don't have every day.

His bracelet was also incorrect. It was. He was not allowed into the event. Our friend Joshua Dubois, who's like, we've known forever who used to play pranks in the office. And one time changed it. So my outlook every time I wrote the word the, it, it auto corrected to bag of assholes. He gave the prayer and invocation.

I just wanted to say that when Tommy realized this, he didn't think it was a prank. And Tommy's just typing emails. And he's like, we were in the Senate office at the time, it's 2006. And he's like, every time I write an email, all of a sudden just says bag of assholes. It's like, I'm sure that I'm almost positive. I didn't write bag of assholes in this email.

How are you not more sure? It's like when that reporter thought that she was hacked because she had spilled water on her space bar. Yes. It's funny. It was the first story. thought of and I'm like, and now he's the pastor at this event. Josh walked up to me last night and said,

what's up, you bag of assholes? Anyway, Eddie Vedder was here. He did a musical number with some 13 to 14 year old kids. They composed it. They put it together. They played it in front of four presidents of the United States. The whole thing has just been, it's very cool and inspiring and a home game for us. The other thing about the museum, just that I think is really noteworthy is it is about, like, how people can learn from,

what Obama did, what people were on Obama did, and do similar things going forward. Like the whole idea is to inspire people to take their community, their country, their lives in their own hands and try to bring change. Like that's the entire thing from top to bottom at every place of this is about like the core principle. He's a very young ex-president, as he mentioned today.

Not that young, but young enough. And also started as a community organizer here in Chicago. And so I do think that like they were very, you know, the intention of the whole museum or in the whole center from the beginning was that it wasn't just like somewhere where you could walk around and see exhibits or just like a traditional presidential library, but that it would be a place, be a community center where like people can go be inspired to, you know, run for office or help their community or. And so I really think they achieved that. I love the museum. I mean, I went, I first came Tuesday with Emily and the kids, brought Charlie and Teddy. and they lasted a couple hours before Teddy had a meltdown when he tried to eat the fake apple and the fake Oval Office.

Didn't go well. Didn't, couldn't eat it. Wanted a real apple. Yeah. Cried a lot. We left. But before that, I do think that the campaign, there's a whole level dedicated to the campaign. And it tells the whole story of the campaign from beginning to end.

And the last panel after you watch the video is Grant Park. And the way they tell the Grant Park story is through newscasts from all over the world. announcing that he won and it just like interviews people in like Africa and people in Europe and people in like Selma here and just talking about what it meant to them. And I was just watching that and I'm like, oh yeah, see, this is a great country. Like we can like this is, we complain about it a lot and there's a lot of bad things going on right now. But I'm like, this is a, this is a great country. The, you know, we'll talk about the speeches more, but I was just thinking about nostalgia walking through the museum. And there's a poll that came out the other day that said,

which of the previous presidents do you think did the best job? And Obama is the leading president of people who have a positive view of them in hindsight. And you walk around this museum and it has this hopeful view of the country about, you know, the relationship between organizing community and democracy, civic responsibility, empathy and, you know, the old-fashioned civic virtues. And I did by myself thinking walking around, okay, this was and is persuasive to people. And I'm leaving thinking, okay, but let's be honest, this museum is opening at a time in which like Trump is part of the speeches. It is part of this event that people are aware of what's happening in the country.

And like, what are the ways in which this was not made durable after, right? What are the ways in which either this vision of the country wasn't as persuasive as we hoped it would be or we did not uphold it and use it to make the best case possible to prevent Trump from winning not once but twice. And that that was also on my mind because I'm not a nostalgic person by nature. And so I was sort of stuck on that and I was trying to like challenge myself to think, okay, this obviously is a vision that I respect and appreciate. What are the ways in which it wasn't able to fully bring more people along after Obama was gone? It's funny. That was that was what was stuck in my head before coming here. I was thinking about it a lot. And then having

I spent today listening to President Obama and Michelle and go. going through the center, I think that the answer is, at least their answer is that it's not ever going to be durable. Like that is the whole point of not just America, but like human nature that like we're always going to have these moments where people's, I always talk about better angels, people's worst angels take over and that's in progress

doesn't happen in a straight line. And so I think their answer is everyone has to just get to work. Right. And everyone has to just keep going and keep, And like, and don't give into, like, cynicism and don't, you know, and don't give up. And the first part of the museum doesn't actually start with the Obama stories. It actually starts with, like, the key moments in history. They're like the one we're in right now where bad things are happening, you know, whether it or where there are real problems in the country that's being changed where the civil rights movement, the suffrage movement, all of that stuff, the labor movement.

And the, I think the answer to that is, it's like at every point, it's not always going to be good. And but every time it's been bad and we have dealt with it. it is because regular people came together. They started organizing. They started working. They started voting. And they brought change. And I think the true message of that.

So we can do that again. And they didn't write. Like obviously this museum was not made for the Trump era. Yeah. Because it's going to be around for 100, 200 years after that. But I like, and this is like always core in what Obama talks about. It's in the Selma speech that adorns the building itself is that we are always going to have moments like these. And we're going to have to come together to get out of them.

And so, you know, maybe a few years from now, things will look much more like they did in 2008. And then- They'll look like 2016 again. Who knows? Yeah. Well, yeah, I think it's the idea that, yes, that is that you step back to, all right, this is the path of progress. Two steps forward.

One step back, there are times where you, where people give into their fears in their, whatever, their smallness. But part of the work of getting out of it is not just stepping back and saying, we will come together and figure it out. It's like, what happened, right? Like, what were the ways in which this vision of, of America seemed to some people to be either false or hollow in some way or, you know, uh, uh, uh, uh, not able to be replicated by the candidates that follow.

Two things. One, uh, back to Teddy. It's really cool and a thing people probably didn't know that you could walk into the Oval office and there was a bowl of apples on the coffee table between the two couches and people would just take them and eat them. And actually the actual bowl that was on Barack Obama's coffee table for years is now in this museum because our friend Farrell just had it at her house. Yeah. And now it's here. That's, I think, a fun little anecdote that people don't know. And two,

on the speeches, I mean, I literally was just talking to Josh Shapiro, governor at Pennsylvania, no big deal. Watch your feet guys. Watch your feet guys. And as I'm talking to Josh Farrow, Hannah comes up, she's like, can we go some food? Like this, come on, come. Anyway, and he and I were talking about, like, whether. That's Jewish energy to bring that. He and I were talking about whether, you know, we watched the speech and felt like the reaction to the speaks part of the conversation like do we think what he was saying is still real like that there are that people really do want decency and to bring people together and a politics that just delivers for them because it's so easy to see the social media part of politics and the owning each other and the

viciousness from Trump and the moments I feel myself falling into being a shittier person online. Yeah. It's like dunking on people on Twitter. And honestly, my reaction to Barack Obama's speech was it made me want to be a better person. And it made me want to be more like him and more like civically engaged and to pay more attention to the messages we're hearing out of people like Shapiro and James Talarico that are asking us to kind of get back to that brand of politics. I 1,000 percent believe that the winning 2028 candidate will be someone who offers a

version of that message to turn the page on this era of division of terribleness for something better. It won't be exactly the same as Obama as much as the world has changed. people, you know, everyone's, you know, we have a lot of calluses and scar tissue over the last decade, but something that is more like that than the liberal inverse of Trump. It's funny. I think just the nature of the trip and we've been doing a whole bunch of things last couple days that I haven't really been on my phone as much. And then where we were sitting, Dan and I were like really trying to get service and then trying to like figure out how to get on the

Wi-Fi and it just wasn't happening. And so like I have seen no takes of any of the speeches, didn't know nothing what was happening. And it was. And it was. And it was. And it was. And It really like I sat there like, good, I don't want to know what all the takes are out there of what this event is and like letting all the cynicism creep back in because I felt like you. I'm like, it does make me want to be a better person. And Michelle, and we'll talk about her speech in a second, but she had this riff in the speech where she talked about how hope is a choice. And, you know, it can just sound hokey when you just hear it like that. But I think what she meant is like, yes, you can decide that things are going to be bad or that, you know, it's not worth trying or that. Or you can decide like, yeah, things could still be bad,

but I'm actually just going to stop complaining and try and, like, put my shoulder to the wheel and see if I can make a difference. Yeah, I do think that part of, like, you know, what is Trump's skill as a politician? And he can really make people's worst qualities just truer about them. He just has the ability to make something bad.

We have good parts and bad parts in us. I mean, the other day, I was like, you can, we go do a tour show in Detroit and we say, is anyone here from Michigan and someone raises their hand and says, they're safe, they're from Ohio. The whole crowd, like, booze them. like fucking crazy. There's an ice agent in every heart.

There is. But so like there's this, what I liked about that part of them, Michelle's speech specifically is choosing Trump takes your agency and it is we do not have to ignore people's culpability, the harm

of that choice, the fact that they could have made a different one, right? Like we should remind, we should take people, hold people responsible and treat them like adults. And I think one thing that Barack Obama does as a politician is he tries to treat people like adults and a politics that treats people like adults. The other thing he does that I think we as a party are sometimes missing is he is unabashedly patriotic. Yes. And talks about his love for the country.

And that doesn't mean he hides the imperfection to the country. He is a living embodiment of the worst stains in our history. But he is patriotic and he talks about the love of the country. And I think people want that and they want to be a part of a movement. that is patriotic. And I was reminded of this when we went to the, I went to the USA Paraguay soccer game the other day. And like just being with thousands of people chanting USA, USA,

and like loving their country and cheering for the players. And like the fact that a bunch of them are immigrants, right? And one was like literally like his mother, like the Ben Shapiro is out there calling him an anchor baby, right? And this guy scored two goals. Like it's just getting back to that brand of politics is so important. I talked to Jerusalem Demsis about this for offline this week. And she was saying there's this,

I haven't seen it, but there's this whole discourse online around the World Cup where all of these people are coming to America and then they're like posting, America's really great and people are so nice. They're going to Waffle House for the first time. Because of everything that they hear about Trump, they thought coming here would be this like dark dystopian.

And they're like, this is a wonderful country. And I thought about that walking through the center too. And I was like, this has been my feeling in the last two days here. I'm like, this is a fucking great country. Like it is a great country. And just because Trump is president and we don't like what's happening,

it doesn't mean that we should say, oh, this country sucks. now. It doesn't. Don't let the take this from you. Yeah. It's the yeah. I think like holding just the like this is not who we are. Well, you know, Trump is who we are, but also what Obama is who we are. Yeah. The part where in the speech where he started, he talked about the 250th anniversary and it just was a small moment for me of just like we're, there's so much noise around Trump politicizing the 250th birthday and the UFC fight on the lawn and the Trump rally on the national mall and the reflecting pool and all the rest. And that's a terrible price. Just that this is what he's doing with his with this moment. But also.

the opportunity cost of just like what it would have been like to have literally any other person in that job who just had some modicum of patriotism or respect for the country to understand how to make it a genuinely uniting moment and the fact that he doesn't even have a shred of it. I know. I keep thinking about that. It's like it's could have been a Republican president. Like I wouldn't have been happy about that. Could have been a Republican president that brought the country together on the Americas 250th. Easily. I have no doubt that George W. Bush is 250th America. I think would have annoyed me in certain respects. But there, but like you look like. But there would have been really nice moments. And we've been like, okay, I feel good. It was. It was. nice also in the speech. A sense of mission. Yeah. Yeah, when Obama gave a shout out to he was like, John McCain loved this country. Like I did, like Mitt Romney did. You know, there was a nice bipartisan spirit to it that wasn't, I thought, corny and cliche. Pazade of America is brought to by Bombas. Summer has arrived, longer days, outdoor adventures, and more reasons to move. As the weather warms up, upgrade your go-to footwear with everyday essentials from Bombas. Bombas are cushioned where you need it. Sweat-wicking and they don't slide around, so you're not constantly adjusting your socks. Step into warmer weather with the Bombas Friday

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Speaking of that, I think we do have a clip from Obama's speech that we can play and then react to. How are you? That's it. Tommy did it. Tommy has the clip. The exhibits in the center are not meant to evoke nostalgia for some gauzy, bygone era, some unattainable past that we can dream about and say, oh, we miss you,

Iraq. They're meant, they're meant to remind us of who we can be, to remind us of what's possible. So we can forge ahead, clear-eyed and confident, and do the work that still needs to be done. I wanted to play that clip because I think he had done a few interviews before today, where I think he got questions from reporters that were in the vein of, like, isn't this nostalgia or isn't this like a long-lost era and doesn't it feel like a different reality

because of what we're dealing with right now? And he actually wanted to respond to that in the speech. And I think in a way it's the mission of the whole center, which we were just talking about. And I think they're very sensitive to the idea that this is either a monument to them or about the accomplishments of the administration or about some gauzy past

and what it is supposed to be is basically like a pep talk for America which today was I think a badly needed one but yeah I look I think a lot of people are frustrated that he's not more engaged with kind of like the politics of the day to day and I think we've even at times expressed like wishing he was just talking about things but he talked about the twin cities and the way they stood up to ice

and came together as a community I thought that was clearly about this moment He talked about government is more than one that divvies up the spoils that punishes enemies that keeps those that are different from them in their place. Shot at George W. Bush. He's like, I do not believe how that's how the story of America ends. Like we'll talk about Michelle's speech in a minute, which is a little more directed at the Trump administration. But I thought Obama's very much commenting on the politics of trumpet today.

I would just say criticizing museum for being too nostalgic is just idiotic. It's just fair point. This museum looks backwards. Which way does your museum face? I think this all started with that. I think it was that a New York Times piece. It was Peter Baker. It was a Peter Baker.

Yes. And it was like. And I think, I mean, I get why reporters would write that, right? Because we are living in this reality. And then you step in here and you're like, okay, is this just a pining for the past kind of thing? Sure. And I, you know, what they're really trying to say. And this goes to your point about how people complain like Obama's not more involved in politics.

And what Obama always says is like, I don't want to be out there forever because I want the next. generation of progressive leaders to be out there and to like have their moment. Maybe this will be the election cycle that happens. Right. And I think the point of the center and the point of the foundation. I'm losing with the football. Right. Yeah. But even the point of the center, the point of the foundation especially is to, is to train and inspire

young leaders here and all over the world. And I think that is, it finally makes sense to me now because like it is nice when Obama goes out there and he's great on the campaign trail and he gives great speeches and he motivates people. and that's important to have in democratic politics. But we do need leaders who are not Obama and who take the spotlight in the next 10 years, 20 years.

Yeah, also, I agree with all that. But also, it's okay to be nostalgic. I'm not nostalgic. Nostalgia does it doesn't do it for me in the same way. I'm not really like a hope person. I'm more of an anger and rage person. But I understand its value in the same way that Trump appeals to people.

You're more of an experienced person. Yeah, yeah. And in small doses. And especially when experience plus strength. Yeah, yeah, right. Right. And obviously, as I've said, change equals one divided by, no way, strength plus experience equals change.

So change divided by strength plus experience equals one. But back to the museum. It's okay to be nostalgic, right? Like, yes, this was a moment where people were really hopeful. And a lot of really good was done. A lot of things weren't finished. But people believed in the mission. They cared about it.

They fought to make it happen. And they elected him twice. And it led to really good things. that nostalgia is a good thing to feel. And there's a way in which to like... Especially if it inspires you to act. Yes, yes. It's persuasive.

It's good to feel, but it's also good to like be like, oh, well, then I'm going to go do something. And that there's a whole... And there's a lot of people who are very, very hyper-engaged in politics. It applies to a lot of people that are partisan. It applies to a lot of people that are nonpartisan journalists. That they see that is inherently naive. That there's something inherently naive about having that warm and good feeling about politics in any way. That it's cringe, right?

Like nostalgia. applies to us sometimes. Of course. I've gotten, I've been in those moments all the time. But, but like, but I had this,

what I was watching, I think it was, there was a moment where, Bono was singing Michelle My Bell. And boy, I have a photo, I'm cringing. I got a photo of Tommy,

just cring, just a full body cringe. And, and I get, and like, but why do we cringe? And I think it's sometimes because we're uncomfortable

with a display of care or like a direction that we might agree with, but take something too far in a way that feels syrupy or saccharin in some way. And you were wondering, is he hitting on her?

Yeah, Well, I mean, Obama did say, leave my wife, my wife, yeah. But it was a lot of, to your point, like, in the 2020 election, like, you know, it was a thing you'd hear online that people were like, oh, oh, we're just going to vote our way out of this problem. It's like, well, yeah. Yeah, actually. That's the whole thing. That's democracy. I mean, it's not the only thing you're going to do, but at some point you do have to vote.

You have to vote. If you don't do it, a lot of the other stuff, you're going to try. It's going to do much. Right. Or otherwise, it's not a democracy. And then we're the other system that we say that we're against. Right. So you do have to have to vote at some point.

So let's talk about Michelle's speech. Let's just listen to a clip because then we can comment on it. The native kid showing us that resilience and pride can never be stolen. The four-achers and FFA members with calluses on their hands from feeding livestock, the immigrants proving what it truly means to be a dreamer. These folks These folks aren't Americans too. They are America.

They are the beating heart of this country. They are us and we are them. Deep down in our hearts and souls, we all know right from wrong. We know selflessness from greed, righteousness from injustice. All of us, all of us. are created equal, that each of us is a child of God with an errant value.

And no one, and I mean no one has the right to sit in judgment of who's American enough. So I will say I got like a little misty when I saw the Grant Park panel at the center. But the first time this whole week that I actually just like cried was, during her speech. Oh, yeah, for sure. I saw the sign language interpreter wiping tears. I did too. I did too. It was a fantastic speech. Listen, I mean, it's like, it's almost

cliche to say it that like Michelle Obama always knocks at the park, but it really was this stuff. I thought Obama speech was really good. She, like, I can't remember the last time I didn't see her just kind of knock the cover off the ball. I'm trying to think of a bad Michelle. There's no. There's, there, no. The part that also was really moving was

she, she says at the beginning, I'm going to do what, you know, what Brock won't want me to do and just like brag about him. And and she talks about like how he carried himself in the eight years as president. And that's what like really did it for me. Yeah, I lost it at that point. I see him crying. It is like what she said about him is like what we know, but just like he is such like a decent human like just truly to his core decent. Like he's flawed. Like he's a human, but he's a decent human. I think all the time about. like the one thing, and this is like at the core of what Michelle was saying, but he used to think all the time about how every, like, I'd be in meetings with Obama where it would just be like people who you saw a lot. He'd be pretty grumpy, right? Like shit is bad going on. But then someone would come in the room who'd be like a younger staff briefing on something or someone coming in for a visit. And he like instantly knew that that interaction with him, and that's the only time they'll ever meet a president in their life was going to be matter.

Life changing. Life changing for them. And he wouldn't matter how shitty the day was, he would pull it together and just like treat that person with the utmost respect to make that like a special moment. And that is like that to me is always like summed up who he is. And it was really just powerful to hear Michelle talk about it that way. I always thought that it was there was an irony in the Obama campaign being about change and that that carrying him all the way to the nomination. But ultimately he's able to. to defeat John McCain because in the weeks of the financial crisis, what actually carried him all the way to the presidency, which was not a quality that I think was necessary for his rise until then, was a kind of preternatural, evenness, reliability, consistency, trustworthiness, a calm that was sort of in his bones that infused everything that he did. And it gave people the assurance unspoken that they could take a chance on him when John McCain was supposed to be the more senior and seasoned person but had seemed erotic in the lead up to the election. And when people would say things like with which Michelle referenced that, oh, he wasn't

qualified, he wasn't this, it was that. It's like, why is he qualified? Well, look at what he is. Look at how he is modeling what it means to be a senator and a candidate in a way that say Sarah Palin, right, who could claim a similar or whatever experience in the public in an elected office that didn't have the same effect. And now we were all these years later and it just stands in contrast to what Trump is. And the fact that there were so many Republicans who spent eight years denigrating him as a person

pretending he was some threat or some some alien or some some evil and a socialist sort of extreme force when of course the whole time he was this even keeled center left consensus building a reliable figure which now in hindsight the country like terribly misses. Yeah, I think what I just like think about why I was lucky to work for him like yeah, he was cool. Yes, he was a great communicator and speaker. But the thing upon like a long time of reflection that I've come to realize was the best part about working for him is that literally anything you could go to him and he had a core belief about whatever it was. And that was from a good place. That was from a sense of decency.

And like, yes, politics are part of everything. But it was about doing the right thing. And like you just never doubted that or like the most. their motivation of their family. And it's just like contrast that to like you walk in the Oval Office now and they're fucking day trading on the war with Iran. You know, it's just insane where we've gotten. One of my favorite lines about Obama ever is that Tanaasi Coates line at the beginning

of that long piece about him at the end of the administration, which was for eight years, he walked on ice and never fell. And it was about race and how he handled race and being the first black person. president, but I also think it's about so much more than that is that like the job president and the job of him being president and being the first black president, as Michelle also mentioned today, it requires so much care and thoughtfulness and like balance of so many different competing interests and competing desires within yourself and trying to channel your emotions and trying to suppress some emotions. And I feel like Michelle's speech was that line.

that Tana Hussie Coates line. Yeah. And I think that's why it was so affecting because I was like, you know, I think we all get that having been in politics. Like we all do that. We all done that throughout our time in politics as you realize that so much of the job is constant thinking about like, what is the right balance of this and that? And how do I not piss this person off? And how do I persuade this person? And like so much care goes into it.

And the fact that he was able to do that and get through eight years still intact is just like, you know, know it's it's inspiring I think the being the first black president like what Michelle said like we like anyone who worked with him or worked from the very beginning knew the historic nature of his candidacy and the different set of rules are applied to him that any candidate and it's the same way different set of rules replied to women candidates and he refused to complain about it he refused to complain about it and Michelle like that was subtext of everything that we always talked about but Michelle made it text yeah right and said very clear that he for eight years could not make a mistake He could not slip up.

He cannot lose his temper. He cannot lash out. He could not set an angry tweet. He had to bear the expectations and the pressure of being the first black president because how he did it was going to dictate if and when he had a second black president. Yeah, right. For example, literally just pointing out that Trayvon Martin looked like what his son would look like. She said that today.

And I was like, yeah, she leaned in. Yeah. And I think that I think she got some stuff off for chess today. It was great. Yeah. She always does. Yeah. Like it was great.

It was powerful. We should talk about like the sort of the backdrop of all of this invisible in the backdrop, sometimes very visible is Trump. Yeah. And how they all kind of, how they both handled that today. Yeah. Well, yeah. It's funny.

I felt the same way at the convention too that when Michelle's speeches, there's like an edge and a kind of darkness to them that I'm like, oh, I'm always caught off guard by it. I'm like, oh, like she's pissed a little bit. Like she's going to say some things that she's feeling about. what's going on right now and it always works because I do think like she taps it it's a very it's you know it's it's it matches what he does um there compliments what what he does because she has this she understands how to use that that feeling people have that's all we're living through the Trump era we're always a little bit mad we're always a little bit upset it's always there it is a it is a

cloud over our society and she just without saying the name she just said you know what that's a part of today and I'm and it makes me upset too because not just because of what's happening right now, but because of what the other standard that was applied to Barack Obama when I saw what kind of a man he was. And the thing that I think we'll probably like, he is like, you know, he actually won a peace prize, right? That was like a fun shot of Trump. The thing that I thought, to your point, love it about the darkness was failing to see the humanity to others puts us on a slippery slope when she was talking about immigration. Yeah. Right. She's like talking about this slide to fascism in her remarks.

I can't remember who said this, but someone said about Michelle after her convention speech in 2024 that she is your friend who just tells you like it is. Does not beat around the bush, just tells you exactly what you need to hear. And her speeches always reflect. Like there's no, like there's a way to make those points that are so subtle that like maybe, or you get it, but you've basically wasted a bunch of words in it. She just says it always. And it's what makes it so powerful.

I always roll my eyes when people are like, Michelle Obama should run for president because we obviously know she's never going to run for anything because she despises politics. But again, today, like halfway through the. speech. I know as I was crying and then Emily was also crying next to me. She was like, I mean, maybe she should run for something. I had the same thought. I had the same thought. Then I slapped myself. I was like, I'm like, well, we can want it all we want. She's not going to do it. But like, but I, she just should really come, she can command a stage. By the way, we're in a working building. There's some, you might hear some background noise.

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It's a way you send stuff. It's how you stamp approval. They got tramp stamps. Tommy's got stamps for tramp stamps. Briefly. Said Mike Pence for president. It's a true story. Awkward.

Anyway, if mailing is taking more time and more money than it should, try stamps.com for free for four weeks and get a welcome kit. Go to stamps.com slash PSA to get this offer today. That's S-T-A-M-P-S-T-A-M-P-S-A-T-A-T-S-A-T-S-A-T-S-A. Taxes and Fees Apply. One more thing before we move on. Dan, you had a message box today in honor of today. I did. About what Democrats can learn from Barack Obama, which I thought would be a nice way to end this section. Well, look, I think, you know, Obama sets every, every election cycle, he goes out, he goes on the trail and everyone says, like, why can't more Democrats lock at this? And Obama's obviously, as we all know, and everyone is a generationally talented communicator.

And so just telling people to be more like Obama's, like not helpful advice, it's like, be more like Michael Jordan. Dunk more. Yeah. But I think there are like a few things that any communicator can take from him. I'll just give you a couple. Well, one is, like in Tommy, you mentioned this, is that there is this inherent patriotism in everything he says. Like, he owns it. He will not let Republicans take patriotism.

He is not, he will, you know, and often does talk about all the flaws in this country, but makes the point about what a special place is that you heard that today. The other one is that he, you know, and I remember this, early on the administration, we were going to do a YouTube town hall, which is like very innovative at the time, which is just a town hall that's. streamed on the internet and but YouTube was hosting it and we were taking we're doing a YouTube podcast and they were taking questions over the over I guess in YouTube comments I can remember but the number one topic by far was legalization of marijuana and so we went in to say like this is number one question but you don't like we can we don't have to take it and he's like you always have to talk about it he's like well if it's the number one question we're going to talk about it yeah talk about the thing because he like he will always say it's like you always have to talk

about the thing right the elephant in the room you cannot avoid it's just take it head on, you know? And then the last thing I think is really powerful is we talk all the time about like how Democrats need a better affordability message, economic message, all this. And what Obama always understood is that the discussion of the economy is not really about policy. It's not about how many times you say affordability. It's not whether you say bottom up or middle out. It is a it's a story about values, about who you're fighting for and who you're fighting against. And like that is the frame to bring to all of this. Like, And this is like ultimately, I think the biggest thing to take from Obama over the whole time is that politics and messaging is a storytelling exercise.

It's not a slogan. It's not a soundbite. It's not a tweet. It is an overall narrative about the country, about why you are the person who should be elected, why the other side should not be elected, and fitting things into those stories. What do you have to say about this moment that we're in right now in the country and where you want to take us? What do you have to say about it? Yeah. And everything has to flow from there.

message flows from there, policy floors in there, like, that's where you have to start. And, like, you know, Michelle and Barack Obama has something to say today, right? And people can have something completely different to say, but you still need to run for president having something to say about this moment. That is beyond just Donald Trump and what policies you want to enact when you're president. Okay, let's get to some news before we leave because I guess news has been happening. We have that had access to it, but we hear it's happening. We got the text of the Iran deal, apparently, the MOU. And boy, is it a stinker.

Tommy, was the Treaty of Versailles at MOU? I don't know. That's a good question. Yeah, so we have a treaty of Versailles. He signed it in Versailles with Macron. Which is an insane choice. Wait a second. Didn't they auto pen it?

I'm sorry. I'm learning this in real time. You're telling me they signed this piece of paper in literal Versailles? Yeah, dude, he stayed an extra day just to go out dinner in Versailles. He's like, it's real gold. And it's not even the signing ceremony. It was just like he decided to just sign it in Versailles. That's crazy.

Yeah. And it's like the, it's like the 20th crazy thing about the text. Versailles. The administration official read all the text of the MOU. You couldn't just copy paste? Because like Bloomberg got it and then CNN got it, I think. But then the administration, Stephen Chung, was like, they're just wrong. That's not the text.

I got it from the president of Iran's Twitter. And the real one ended up being like a couple words were different, but not by any, not anything significant. So the memorandum of understanding, the MOU, the Treaty of Versailles. The MOU of Versailles. We get episode title. The memo calls for the suspension

of the naval blockade of Iran's ports and for Iran to use its best efforts to allow traffic through the strait of Hormuz without tolls for 60 days. It calls for a permanent end to war in Israel and Lebanon. Iran is allowed to resume exporting oil. We'll get access to a 300 billion dollar redevelopment and reconstruction fund.

The MOU creates a 60-day window for negotiations over Iran's nuclear program. And in the meantime, Iran reaffirms its longstanding commitment not to procure or develop nukes. So it's not playing super well. No. You got your Bill Cassidy's, John Cornyn's, all the people who feel liberated now that Trump has defeated them. They have been voicing some criticism.

Other Republicans are just sort of hiding. So funny. of these guys, he threw it off a mountain. And then while you're rolling down towards your demise over clips, it's bad. Yeah. Actually, I never liked you. The Iran Hawks are very mad.

You've probably, oh, yeah. You probably consumed a lot of Mark Levine content. Those Ben Shapiro's tears in there that are? I've been watching some fan clips. I might have downloaded a commentary podcast from John Podhoris. Tommy's got the Daily Wire open an incognito window. It was in the bathroom. Yeah.

We think we have a clip of Trump talking about the MOU of Versailles in France. And it's a memorandum of understanding. If it doesn't get done in 60 days, that's all right. We go back to bombing. Unlike Barack Hussein Obama, who sent Iran palates of cash and any relief they receive under this deal, they'll have to get based on merit. And it won't be from us. We don't have to give them anything. But some people may want to invest.

I said, well, what am I going to do? We're going to let Saudi Arabia have missiles, but they can't have them? Yes, sir. Missiles aren't the problem. Missiles are, they hurt a little location, but they don't blow up the planet. And in all fairness, the Bibi Netanyahu happens to be a good man, gets a little excited sometimes. We have a little dispute over Lebanon, and I say you can do a little softer touch, Bibi. You don't have to knock down a building every time somebody walks into it that's from Hezbollah.

Yeah, that's true. That got there. I'm sorry, that guy. And the other one, too, is it like, every time. The best case. The other line was, you shoot a couple of missiles down

that don't hurt you by the desert. You're knocking down a building in Beirut. It was like, imagine the, the shit. A Democrat said it's the shit that we brought down on these people. And I'm sorry, no, just the idea of, the number of times, these fucking anti-JCPOA people were like,

this doesn't even address ballistic missiles, ballistic missiles, ballistic missiles, ballistic missiles, ballistic missiles. Or sport for proxies. This is a million times at the beginning of this war. This is why the deal is so shameful. You're going to give them money, but they're not. addressing the core problem of the ballistic missiles and the Kahn and Hezbollah and their proxies.

And then Trump gives up completely. And $300 billion is what twice, three times, four times as much as what was ever contemplated by the Iran deal? They got an immediate license to sell oil and gas. So they're going to be making money off of that. Then they're clearly planning to, you know, they call it fees, but they're going to be toll ships in the straightover moves. Iran's going to make so much money off of this. I mean, look, big picture, the best outcome is the war being over. So like, I'm happy that the original sin here is this war starting.

And the best thing that come out of this is that the fucking Lindsay Graham foundation for the defense of democracies, neocon hawk worldview is smothered to death, right? And that Trump hates these people and he runs them out of D.C. But they cleaned his clock in this deal. And then just hearing him just on this ballistic missile thing, clearly like the reason you go to the core national security priority with Iran is preventing them for getting a nuclear weapon. Right? Like nonproliferation is a good thing generally. I think the way you do that is through negotiations, not bombing them. We did, you know, fuck up a lot of their infrastructure, but whatever, they can rebuild that. But to hear Trump from going from these maximalist positions to being like, eh, who cares about the nuclear dust? We got eyes on it. Maybe we'll get it out. Maybe we won't. It's like head spinning. And then on the ballistic missiles, like remember when Rubio went up to Capitol Hill and he did that press conference where he blamed Israel and then ran away and didn't talk to the press for two months, the core argument they were making there. is that Iran was on the cusp of having a ballistic missile arsenal that would make their nuclear weapons program like impregnable

and we couldn't go after. Oh, right. And now Trump is like, eh, who gives the fuck? They can have some ballistic missiles. It's no big deal. Ruby also is that our goal is to stop them from their ability to project power in the region. Ballistic missiles is how you project power. It is the definition of their power in the region.

Having read the MOU this morning, the text, I was like, did we get anything from this? No. The straight. The theoretical opening of the straight for 60 days. The theoretical opening of the strait that Iran and Oman are going to jointly control and can charge fees whenever they want. And before the war, the strait used to be open and controlled by no one because it was

international waters, right? And there were no tolls. So like, I don't think we got anything. And the theory of the case on the nuclear negotiations is that your leverage is military action and sanctions. And he just gave up both of those in advance of the 60 days of talks over the nuclear program. Oh, we can just go back to bombing them, but Iran knows that as we get closer to the midterms,

he's not going to go back to bombing them. And you shouldn't go back to bombing them. They're not going to get bombed out of their nuclear know-how. We just unleashed a bombing campaign for weeks. It costs us tens of billions of dollars. And the end result is an unconditional surrender in Versailles. So I don't know what additional bombs are going to do for anybody. The other thing is I don't know if you're going to go to it, but you had Vance sort of brushing back the Iran,

and specifically referring to pro-Israel Iran-Hawks saying Trump is the only leader on earth that is sympathetic to Israel's point of view and we're the leader of the world's superpower which the for van I'm glad Vance said that right it's like look at what for all these people that claim to be so pro-Israel right that have been that have that have turned APAC into this partisan weapon that have alienated Democrats that have that have turned Israel into pariah state do you feel good about where where Israel is at now alone in the world beholden on Donald Trump, a guy that does not give a fuck what happens who could turn on a dime that do you think this was a long-term great play now the Democratic Party is opposed to the to the Netanyahu government. Israel has

never been more unpopular in its entire history. It's never been more isolated. You guys feel good about where you landed after all this while calling everybody out there anti-Semites and anti-Israel? You think the people that might have been saying that Benjamin Netanyahu was terrible for Israel? might have had a fucking point rather than calling us all what self-hating Jews. Like anyway, that's a little point I wanted to make about that. It just won't very quickly. Like, I want Democrats to just stand up and support the JCPOA and say that it was better. Stop all the fucking throat clearing about its flaws and what was omitted.

The JCPOA is better than what Trump may eventually get here. Because with the JCPOA, Iran shipped out 97% of its stockpile, is out of the country and went to Russia. In this case, we're talking about debt. down blending it to making it less usable for nuclear weapons. The JCPOA, that went through the UN Security Council. So this was that sanctions into the backing of all their closest allies, like the P5 plus one, et cetera.

This will have none of that. And now this $300 billion slush fund, like what are we doing here? All these Gulf countries are now going to be told they're on the hook to rebuild Iran when Iran was firing ballistic missiles at them. Can we talk about before we move on to this? you mentioned J.D. Vance, I want to sort of ask a hacky political question, which is I read in playbook this morning, I think, that a lot of J.D. Vance's like, you know, opponents or detractors are trying to like hang this deal around his neck and say, that's J.D. Vance's deal. And there's

people from J.D. Vance's office that basically pushed back and said, those people obviously can't read a poll because this war was very unpopular. And the idea that this is going to be bad for J.D. to be associated with this deal, this treaty is crazy because people don't want war anyway. And so it's not going to be a real political risk for him at all. What do you guys make of that? Because I think it brings up the question of how this war and how it ended sort of plays out politically or whether it even does, whether it has a lasting political impact as we head towards the midterms and beyond that.

I think the on like a substantive political level, no one is going to remember the war by the time that voting happens in November. And well, not in this November. I think the question is about J.D. Vance's presidential race. So by the time we did, yeah, I think the war will matter this November in a couple ways we can talk about when it comes to the Republican primary or the general election of 2020, which is that may. I think anyone's going to remember it. I think the damage of the war to J.D. Vance is I think it has ensured that Donald Trump will be a very unpopular president when J.D. events is possibly trying to be the third term of that very unpopular person. I think that is bad for him. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Not everyone experiences summer as an endless parade of hot

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You don't have to say yes. to everything this summer. Find support and therapy. Sign up and get 10% off at BetterHelp.com slash PSA. That's BetterHELP.com slash PSA. Speaking in advance, he's been on a book tour about his conversion to Catholicism. Tough timing, man. Tough timing. Yeah, it's really, this ruin the tour. He went to the View. Went into the Lionsden on the View. They did a great job. I haven't watched any questions. You're really good. You're learning for the first time now. Yeah, this clip will be my first, my first experience with JD on The View. So let's, let's take a look.

Everybody knows that Americans are struggling. What is he spending all this money for? Well, I got to defend the president on the hoax point. What the president said is the idea that Republicans cause the affordability problem is a hoax. He said he loves the inflation. What he said, Anna, what he said is that he loves the fact that the inflation is going to come down when this war is over. That's what he said. That wasn't a duress.

Are you his interpreter or are you his vice president? I believe, as a Christian, I can tell my kids why it's important. to have borders. I get that. There are laws, there are resources. I get all that things. It's much harder to explain when I see someone dragged out of a house or wrongly taken to a thing that isn't a violent criminal. That is that that is, it's a little more nuanced as a parent to try to say when someone's referred to as vermin or scum when I teach them in school about people that have done that before and but this is different. It's very hard as a parent and a Christian to say both things. I would urge you as a Christian and as a father to visit those detention centers where the

children are being held. So you guys have thrown a lot at me and I see we got 30 seconds left here, but let me say, number one. You're the best president. You can go long. Sounds like that went well. What did you guys think? Anyone watch more of it? I watched a bunch of it. They did a great job. And what they did that I think we heard there was the questions weren't like from a like a shitty liberal perspective. It was like as a Christian, as a human being, how can you as a parent like see what's happening at the Dilley Detention Center and be okay with that. And I think J.D. Vance credits him, I guess, we're going there, right? He's clearly trying to make an argument that he's the kind of candidate that can build bridges

and reach new voters by going on the view, right? Like, that's like a thing you tell people you did. He answered the questions, but I don't think he did a good job. And he also just cannot help but sound like a whiny little bitch who thinks he is the victim of everything. Yeah, he also says Democrats are terrible at one point. I do like, it's just, it's just not possible to be, it's not possible to fairly answer questions, defend Donald Trump and build a, and sort of be tilting at any kind of broader sort of a nonpartisan coalition. Like it says that those things, there's no talent on earth that could both defend Donald Trump and pretend to be some kind of broader, more appealing figure.

It's just not, can't be done. And so I don't think, I think there are people that are far more talented than JD Vance that would make it look a little bit easier. He's just so bad. He's terrible. Like in those answers, like he thinks he's being smart by basically just gaslighting about what it is Trump actually said. And he just doesn't like there's a way like defending down Trump is an impossible task. It just you cannot do that and remain any sort of dignity or seriousness of a human being. You just can't.

But there's ways to do it with more charm or humor. Yeah, he just had he just has no he says no charisma. Yeah. And I mean, you know, and I think I think he goes on the view. And I think he was not I think in his mind Maybe he wants to show that he can go to this up place I also think he wants to show that he can go on the lips remember he went on blue sky for like a hot minute To like take people well the you just referenced a little bit that he calls Democrats terrible people

So he did that it's a Megan Kelly Yeah I was later I was it was got felded I was gonna argue right because I saw that clip and I realized that yeah his whole play was I'll go on the view And then they'll beat me up and then I'll go to the right wing outlets and I'll be like oh I survive the view and they were such assholes and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But he does this thing. And they didn't even beat him up, though. They were, like, very substantive questions.

The way he said that, too, it was such a, he's like, and the thing about Democrats that I don't like, it's, it's not the policies necessarily, is that they're terrible people. Right. And they're not grateful to the country. He did the grateful thing. Well, the thing it's even worse than it's a, it's a, he couldn't stop himself. He started by saying, like, the thing that virus me about Democrats is it's not what, it's not their policies.

It's not this. It's that they're not. I think the grateful thing I think in this context, what he was trying to awkward do was that, like to try to suggest we run down America, but he knew he was on Fox. We couldn't just say that so he had to say, it also bothers me that some of them are terrible people. He looks like it aside. Wasn't even some. It was just there's terrible people. Terrible people. And I was like, that is a wild thing. Like, does he think that he can just, I mean, I know he's going to run in a primary here, but does he realize that kind of undermines the

whole softening your image effort? He has something. He's crazy. He has no deafness. He is no deafness. I really, he was on a book tour. It is crazy that Marco Rubio has just gone into witness protection. He's the National Security Advisor and the Secretary of State. Has he done a single interview about the Sarandil? There's a picture of him over Trump when Trump's signing the treaty in Versailles. And he looks like... Did you guys watch him behind Trump in the press conference?

Like shifting back and forth, like dead-eyed. He looked like he'd taken like 6,000 ProVee and hadn't slept in a month. Like, just looked miserable. Well, before we go, I do think we should talk about briefly the reflecting pool. I guess that's the thing in the news now. because the reflecting pool. So let me get this straight. Please correct me if I've got the fact wrong on this.

This is important to me because I've been on vacation for two weeks. So in my lat, trying to avoid learning something, this is the thing that I know very little about. I'm excited to learn in a very loving fashion. Explain it to Dan. Here's what I think. Obviously, Trump decided to paint the reflecting pool.

He did the American flag blue. Then they refilled. How did you describe the paint? It was like thick rubbery. Rubbery. Rubbering. Rubbering. And then he,

so they paint. it. They filled it up again. And then it quickly turned green because of algae. And so then there was a green reflecting pool after spending however much he spent to make it blue. And then they just quickly had parks people or interior people or whatever run over there and start dumping hydrogen peroxide or chloride or whatever. Hydrogen peroxide. Yeah. Into the, just dumping it into the reflecting pool as if like this reflecting pool is quite large as Donald Trump showed us on his chart. And just like, like doing a couple buckets was not really going to do anything. And then they had like algae scoopers in there.

They're getting the algae off the bottom. And then the Department of Interior this morning decided to post a series of tweets that was like, it's back and they have a picture of the water is blue again, which I think is just a fake picture. And they said, and the algae is gone from the, the algae is now just at the bottom of the reflecting pool, just like the Iranian Navy.

Yeah. They say that. The Department of Interior, like the Department of Interior, which in a previous era might have posted a picture of say, Zion National Park Boy, check out Zion National Park we think everybody's gonna love it. They're like, you fucking cucked bitches.

This thing is blue now. It's crazy. So they drain the pool, they painted it a darker color, but a bluer color or whatever. They claim because, oh, you know, Obama and Biden, they didn't have the stuff to fix the roof.

They couldn't get it done. But as we all complained about for years, there's a big thing we really cared about. So they're going to do it. They're going to fix it. And then the algae comes back. Well, maybe because Donald Trump isn't magic. And because it is an eight-acre short fucking swamp, painted black in the middle of one of the, like in a middle of a swamp.

And there's algae. Maybe the paint color, American flag blue, doesn't have magical properties that can turn of algae. I regret to say that I read a long Washington Post article about this because there's all this like drainage and filtration infrastructure that they didn't actually choose to fix. And that's the core problem. Well, so just painted it. So the other part of this, too. perfect metaphor for the entire fucking administration. I feel you're going to drain the swamp,

if you will. Yeah. But so, of course the algae goes back. Now, the interior department that puts out a statement saying, actually, this is residual algae. And it's like, hey, it's not, we don't believe in spontaneous

creation of life anymore. We're not Lamarckians or whatever it was. Who are the fucking people? That's evolving quickly. Who's the ones that thought the maggots became the, that maggots spontaneously arrived? Flogist. Yes, yes.

Thank you, Reed. How do you know this, because we didn't have, sports. Nobody invited us to flip cup, so we learned about these things. So, so, yeah, it's always residual algae. That's where the algae fucking comes from. Now, they did, now, hydrogen peroxide can shock a pool. However, the percent, a pool, the kind they were using, the 12 percent, that's for a hot tub. This is a seven million gallon tank. You would need at least five thousand to seven thousand gallons of this stuff. And that's just to get it clean for a week. And that's

And they're like, well, the new nano rubber tubes are going to work. It's like, there is runoff because this is a park in the middle of a city that there's like from the Potomac and all the rest. So the algae is just going to keep coming back. And it is a great metaphor for Donald Trump thinking, for people thinking the only problem has been that our leaders were stupid or didn't care, didn't break enough rules. Donald Trump does something cheap and easy that he thinks is a magic solution. It's not.

And then he pretends it as anyway. And news flash, Donald Trump Jr. now owns a hydrogen peroxide company. Did you guys see like the Newsmax guy who is down at the reflecting pool doing interviews suggesting that the Democrats had like sabotaged? Yes. Oh, sabotage is everywhere. Everyone thinks we've been poor in phosphates. We've been fertilizing the fuck. Yes.

And then Jesse Waters sent his like baby dork goon down there to be like, well, at least our president cared enough to fix it and try. What are we doing here? What do you guys care about this? The Washington Post did report, by the way, that the ballroom, that they found an information. voiced to a contractor that for like $600 million and that half of it was going to be taxpayer money. And so they've been lying the whole time. And then notice reported, I believe, that they found out that OMB has been moving money from the Secret Service budget into because they couldn't get it passed through Congress. So, so it is, look, we are paying for the

ballroom after all. Well, famously, Secret Service has had a great run recently. So they don't have more resources. They had some loose change. So that's happened. Anyway, we started very, He's got money to buy a couple pairs of binoculars, boys. Well, we started very inspiring, and we ended up with algae in the pool. So it's a tale for our times. This has been fun, guys. Everyone, everyone have a great weekend. That's our show for today.

Alex Wagner will be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with historian and substack Titan, Heather Cox-Richardson. And thanks to the Obama Library for letting us in here. Yeah, absolutely. It's great. Now, let's go find our books somewhere. Pots of America is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Ferris Safari, with Ree Churlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill.

Our team includes Matt DeGroate, Ben Heathcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Kirill Pellev, David Tolls, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Single. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.