Pod Save America - "Megan Rapinoe!!!" (BONUS episode)

Episode Date: July 12, 2019

Jon, Jon and Tommy sit down with World Cup champion Megan Rapinoe for a special bonus episode. They chat about her team’s triumph, her beef with Donald Trump, and how she’s using her platform to fight for pay equity and LGBT rights.

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. In studio today, we are very lucky to have the co-captain of the World Cup champion United States National Women's Soccer Team, Megan Rapinoe. Oh my goodness. I'm clapping for myself. Thanks for being here. I know it's been a busy day for you. Oh my god, of course. This is like the highlight.

All the other stuff, they make you do, but this one I want to do to do well that's so nice of you that's awesome that means so much it's literally the most excited our team has ever been uh most people don't show up every day and there's like 60 people out there to greet you and cheer so this is um most people just don't even come into the office you would be surprised yeah we took a photo with hick and looper did not get the same response just a couple people short um can we geek out about soccer for a minute yeah let's just be fans let's go can we talk about the pose yes this is great radio i'm doing uh yeah it was the post france you all know what we're doing yeah you've done it a couple times i think um in my research where did that come from because it looks like a statue i'm looking at a big ah there's like a sense of emotion I don't know where it came from I did it before the world cup once um against Australia

and Denver yeah that was the the first and I think the only non-world cup pose um I think it was just like a big moment in the game it was kind of a big game for us in the lead up um they were obviously one of the contenders you know know, to win the whole thing. And we took the lead and I was just like, yes, I did this. One of the most iconic sports photos of all time. I know. And now it's really taken on a life of its own. It's cool to find a new arm movement.

You'd think they'd all be taken, but you found a new one. Yeah. To make your own. That in and of itself is an accomplishment. And without like a, there's no like, and it's just kind of like, yes. It's cool. How do you deal with the pressure and expectations

that are on you walking into that final game, not just as a player, but as an advocate, as someone who just got attacked by the President of the United States? Like, how do you get everything out of your head and just sort of focus on the game? You know what's funny? I don't think I try to get everything out. Yeah, I don't think that's ever really been my approach, even just on the field.

Sometimes things are going through my head or I have a song stuck in my head or I can hear the crowd or I can hear specific people in the crowd. I don't think it's ever worked for me to just like be in the zone. I think I don't want to be alone in there. That's terrifying. So I think I just like always have kind of a lot going on in there and we always have pressure on us and there's always a million things going on. I call ourselves the traveling circus at all times,

whether it's in a World Cup or not. So I think even though it is elevated, I kind of just try to roll with it. And like, we live this ridiculously good, fun, amazing life. So a little more pressure, I guess, is not too bad. Why are the male players also hot? They are all hot. I know. It's weird. It is weird. I don't know what it is. It's the metrosexuality of men's soccer, maybe? Yeah, they are. They all put themselves together very well. There's no bears in there. No.

None. No, they're very live. Yeah. I don't know. Did I take this off the rails? No, that's a good question. Honestly, I've been wondering the same thing. I'm not going to go further into that.

You and I. Just something to think about. Yeah. Something to dive into later. Mm? No, that's a good question. Honestly, I've been wondering the same thing. You should probably look further into that. So just something to think about. Yeah. Something to dive into later. He did a lot of research on this point. Yeah, sounds like you dove in already. You guys had this big win. You came back.

You did this awesome event yesterday in New York. You shut down the motherfucking city, as you said. But the speech itself was this really cool call to arms for citizenship, I felt like. Like you said, you're more than someone who tunes in every four years and you called on the fans to make their communities better, step outside yourself, be bigger, be better. What made you turn that moment into something so big that was about more than just that game? I think, honestly, there's been a little bit of a shift in my messaging

just since we got back on. I think there's been, as you guys know, so much fighting and contention. And we're just fighting all of the time, fighting against our federation and fighting against society and all of this. I'm just sick of the fighting. It's exhausting. I don't want to do that anymore. And I don't think anyone really wants to do that. And I don't think we're getting anywhere quickly doing it like that.

So it's kind of just, I guess, the next step of it. I think that the fight is important, but then it's like you can't just sort of swing in the air forever. So this feels like the next step. What can everyone do um i think sometimes people feel totally overwhelmed especially in the last few years with this um you know current political climate and cultural climate you just it's like it's exhausting all the time but maybe if you just do one small thing each day that can sort of help change and then just try to get it down to a little bit more granular than than trying to change the world all at one time. So you were one of the first white athletes

to join Colin Kaepernick in kneeling during the national anthem. Obviously, that's a decision that comes with no small amount of risk. How did you sort of weigh those risks and ultimately make the decision to do that? Well, if you know me at all, you know I don't weigh risks. At all, or think ahead before I do pretty much anything. That's good. Yeah. It all came about very quickly. Obviously I've, um, you know, pay attention to sports and news. So I knew what was

happening. Had seen a number of interviews by him. Um, and I, it just resonated, um, very deeply and very strongly with me. And it was sort of one of those things. It was like, what do you do about police brutality in this country? Like, what am I going to do about something so ingrained as just me who doesn't have time to, like, you know, get in there and make policy and be, you know, whatever. So that just in that moment, I just felt like we had a game coming up. And it was kind of I think maybe the night before I just was kind of thinking about it. And I'm like, this is like something that you should do. And I just kind of just did it.

Have you always been politically active, politically interested like your whole life? Or is this something that happened over the last couple of years since Trump was elected? No, I think I mean, especially since college um i think much more i was raised in uh writing california which is pretty um you know rural small town very conservative yeah and then went to portland oregon for college um and i feel like my world just got that's different completely blown apart yeah i was like first realized i was gay awesome did you not realize you were gay till you got to portland yes that happens to people it was actually embarrassing looking back like not to stereotype pictures but straight bowl cut cut the sleeves off everything didn't wear a shirt till i was 12 i was like you know just such a little like baby butch back then and i like looked

back as soon as i found out i was like no one no one told me. This is the biggest betrayal. Yeah. And I was like, you're damn right. Tomboy. So yeah. So going to, I feel like my whole world just got opened up then. So I kind of started to pay attention more. But definitely as I've gotten older and then I think being on the team, But definitely as I've gotten older and then I think being on the team, the team has always kind of been political. I think we have to. I think female athletes just in general, especially gay female athletes, we're just political just for being who we are. So it kind of makes sense. But is it weird that I mean, I feel like in America, we think that freedom of speech doesn't always extend to athletes for some reason. Like LeBron James is told to shut up and dribble, right? Brandi Chastain was told not to celebrate how she wanted to, right? Like, why do you think that is? And is that another impediment

to speaking out as an athlete? I don't know why that is, because it's like some of the biggest, like cultural shifts and changemakers in our history have been athletes. And as a culture that's obsessed with celebrity, in particular athlete celebrity, it's amazing that we don't sort of lean on those people more to kind of help shape and shift culture as it is. And I think a lot of athletes don't feel comfortable doing that. They feel like there's so much on the line and this is their one chance to live their dream. And I mean, rightfully so. I mean, I think Colin Kaepernick,

obviously the perfect example of that right now. You know, they took everything away from him on purpose just to silence his message. So I think athletes feel a fear of doing it, but it's actually very liberating too. Do you, so part of this is, you know, what it means. You know, there's the criticism I think you've gotten a lot of that that people like Colin Kaepernick have gotten a lot of is, can't you just leave politics off the field? Right. But do you have you ever felt like you

wanted to do that? Just literally just play the game and leave politics out of the field? Or does that, is it possible for you to participate in sports without commenting on the ways in which being an athlete as a gay woman changes what it means to play in sports? It's impossible. It's totally impossible for me to do that. And I think really for any athlete, it's such a cross section of society so often. So in that sense, I think it doesn't feel exhausting. I think a lot of people ask like, how do you sort of manage both? And it's like, this is just normal, normal life. And it doesn't feel exhaust. It would be exhausting to not talk about it because then you constantly have this thing that's there that you're sort of pushing to the side and not talking about. But I don't think it's possible for me as a gay female athlete

to leave politics to the side. When you said to 8x8, I'm not going to the fucking White House, did you have any idea what that would lead to? No. Was it very just like... No, it was totally planned. No, it's sort of, it was like the Jersey unveil and it was kind of, it was like a, you know,

behind the scenes sort of moment. And I think I wasn't expecting it to blow up because I think it's, I may have said it before, I would never go to the White House in this administration or it was just pretty obvious that I would never go. So I didn't think it would be a thing. I mean guess you throw the f-word in there and everyone freaks out a little bit um I do use it a lot I need to maybe tone it down a little bit we do a few times it's just in my normal flow so then I get in these public moments and I'm you know screaming

motherfucker in the middle of New York City and like cable television and Blasio's like you talking to me yeah the culture The culture's a mess. It's not the problem. Yeah. Of course I don't like it. It's fine. It's fine. Least of our concern.

But no, I did not think that it would blow up into the president tweeting me. What was that like? That's LOL. How did you find out like, oh, the president just tweeted about me? From our press officer with the team. I don't actually go on Twitter all that much smart and I don't have any like notifications

or anything like that on because that would just like totally drive me nuts so I found so I had to actually go look because he had sort of referenced something and I was like oh no and so we have a good relationship we've obviously had a lot of media incidents to handle between all of us.

So I was like, oh, dear. She did it again. What happened? I mean, like, no one could be able to predict that our president is such a petty child that he views every issue through the prism of if you're mean or not mean to him. You guys are world-class athletes representing the United States of America. You'd think you could take a little insult. But no, not with this guy. It wasn't even an insult.

Is that an insult? I mean, I guess. Well, he thinks it is. I mean, yeah, it's an insult. I'm not going to go to the fucking White House while this joker is in there. I would take that personally. That's true. If you said, oh, a party at Lovett's house over my dead fucking body, I'd say that hurt

my feelings. So he also did tweet that he was going to invite you anyway, turning what used to be an honor into quite a threat. Yeah. How's that played out? Yeah. You've been threatened to go to the seat of American power. Yeah.

Force feed you Big Macs like a foie gras. That would be the one downside of winning. Yeah, exactly. Well well it's been oddly silent and this is the the preferred mode of communication for the President of the United States

with all things in the world so it's not like there was like a you know another medium that he's using that I'm just missing

yeah like meeting Kim Jong-un at the DMZ inviting you to the White House. It's all in the same medium. It's all one in the same. But there's been no official invite yet. Not publicly.

I think that there has been some reaching out from the White House and from Congress and everybody to the Federation, but there's nothing public out there yet from the White House. Pots of America is brought to you by Luna Bar, the first nutrition bar for women. Luna Bar is so proud of the players of the U.S. women's national soccer team. That makes two of us, Luna Bar. Luna Bar has a heritage of championing and supporting strong women who stand up for their That makes two of us, Lunabar. Can you champion and not support something? And can you support something and not champion it?

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This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Talk about one of the relationships you're proudest of in your life and how you worked on yourself or the relationship to make it what it is today. I go to Starbucks every morning

and I have a great relationship with the people who work there. And that's where I feel like going today. I love that. They keep refusing to come with me to therapy. So I'm going to have to just do it from FaceTime there. And your therapist won't make you a good coffee.

No. That's what they say, you know? What are you going to do? You don't go to therapy for the coffee. You don't go to coffee for therapy. Right? That's what they say. It's like museum food.

That's what they say. A common misconception about relationships is that they have to be easy to be right. But sometimes the best ones happen when both people put in the work to make them great. Right, Tommy? Damn right. Like you and me. That's right. Therapy can be a place to work through the challenges you face in all your relationships. Hey, we should go on therapy in 2018. Whether they're friends, work, your significant other, or anyone, if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill

out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapist anytime at no additional charge. Become your own soulmate. Whether you're looking for one or not, visit betterhelp.com slash PSA today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash PSA. There has been like universal, I think, outrage at the fact that you and your teammates are underpaid considering that you are the greatest in the world at doing something. Should we as allies in this cause be less focused on the disparity between you and the men's team when we talk about it and just talk about the fact that you make the Federation a ton of money and you deserve like a proportional share of that?

Like what's the best way for people to fight for you? Yeah, I do think the compensation piece is talked about too much. It's a complex argument. Our pay structure is different. We play different games. We're different rankings in the world. Like it's just apples to oranges.

But I think what isn't different is investment in teams, the care with which the teams are thought about, whether that's branding, marketing, how much money is put in the coaching staff, how much money is put into the whole program, making it better, into the youth teams, into the way we travel and the way we stay. All of that, I think, should just be across the board the same. Until we have all of that the same and have those conversations, the compensation piece is kind of like the very last part of it. So like, why is it acceptable for all of these years that, you know, they're just spending less in investment to grow the game

on the women's side than they are the men's side, especially since the Federation is a nonprofit. Yeah. What are your next steps on the fight for equal pay? What's coming up? Mediation has been agreed upon. So that will be set, I think, once all of the dust settles a little bit from the World Cup or at least people get back to their inboxes and start doing emails again. We'll sit down with them, I guess,

start to try to hash this out. Yeah, it should be interesting. Fun. Should be so much fun. Like, I love mediation. Yeah, it should be interesting. I think a lot of our listeners love you, love the national team.

They want to support all of you guys in everything you do do but they don't know the best way to do it you know uh in an off year not an olympic year world cup year like what can they do if you're listening right now to support the women's national team to support women's soccer in the u.s um well we have a league that we play in um for five or six months out of the year so buy season season tickets, give them to your friends, tell your friends and family, support that way. And that really helps support a much larger pool of female athletes. There's only 23 players that were on the national team, and we have nine teams in the league,

and there's hundreds of players that play. I mean, I think the minimum salary this year is $15,000 for six months. Wow. So who are basically paying the teams to play. So you can go and watch those games. Watch on TV. Go to national team games. Tell everyone that you know about it. Buy jerseys.

Wear jerseys to work. We're all wearing jerseys. I had this already. I had this for such a long time. I always wear this jersey. And I wear soccer jerseys constantly. This is definitely not the second time I've worn a soccer jersey since I was five years old and cried because I wanted to go home and do math. So, already there.

And then you became a math major. It worked out okay. Yeah. So, a lot of commentators noted that um fourth of july weekend there was this split screen right so like trump's idea of patriotism is his celebration on the mall with a bunch of tanks i didn't actually get to like i was gonna say you were busy see it yeah i had been like reading in in um kind of in the lead-up of it all and i was like oh god how's this it was a bunch of tanks and republican donors that's that was that was a bunch of tanks and Republican donors. That was the Fourth of July in Washington.

And then, you know, on the other side, there's you and the team, and what patriotism means to all of you. And a lot of people said, Well, that's real patriotism. Have you? Has this given you opportunity to think about patriotism? What it means? How you think about it? How you define it? Yeah, I think I first started thinking about patriotism after I knelt. Because I actually did not think that the reaction was going to be anywhere near as bad as it was. I feel like I thought that me being an ally in that way would sort of help move the conversation maybe forward and sort of bring people together more. Right.

If they see someone like me doing it, someone who looks like me, my color skin, maybe a woman, a gay woman, it's like, okay, I get it. It all sort of makes sense. That didn't happen. That was, wow, misread that one. America in 2019. Pretty severely. But I felt like I was being super patriotic.

I feel like I'm super patriotic. You know, if we want to, you know, be this big, bad country and have, you know, be the superpower and be leading the way and everything. And then we're just not doing that at home. I don't think that that's patriotism. That's not cool. Yeah. Well, it's like loving your country is being confident enough to know that it needs to change. Right.

A little self-reflection, a little self-help. It's always good. Look inwards. Yeah. And I don't think criticizing your country, you know, is bad. I don't understand why people think that makes us look weak in any way. I think being vulnerable in that way makes us look strong. And then we can actually get rid of that

problem and then move on to the next one. And then we're even stronger. So I don't get it. So you have become a household name. You've become someone incredibly famous very quickly and someone who people put a lot onto, right? You represent women's sports, you represent gay people, you represent liberals in the culture now. Do you feel any pressure now different from what you felt before just to win on the field to be this ambassador for a whole bunch of different groups of people? I felt that this World Cup, we had a lot of pressure for a lot of different reasons. I felt like if we didn't win, we would still be celebrated and it would be good,

but not the sort of monumental change that I think is happening at the moment. Yeah, I think I'm still digesting it all. I almost have 2 million Instagram followers. Wow. That's almost as good. Up from 500,000. As winning the World Cup. Indeed.

I mean. Because here's the thing. The World Cup doesn't like you when you put a photo up. Nope. It just says, see you later. It says, see you in four years. Yeah. These are likes that are going to happen every day.

So the next step for you is Instagram influencer. Yeah. So brands, if you're listening. Yeah. Did you feel like you were adding pressure? I mean you did like this incredibly baller thing as to say if we win the World Cup we're going to say

fuck you to Donald Trump. And there were a lot of people that speaking of patriotism decided to root against you for that. And then you went out and you did it anyway. That was cool. Babe Ruth pointed somewhere. So that out and you did it anyway. Called your shot. That was cool. That was like that, like Babe Ruth pointed somewhere.

There you go, lover. You know, he pointed out. So that's what you did. You were the Babe Ruth of telling Donald Trump to go fuck himself. We got a title. So that's cool. I have been looking for a book title.

But did you know in that moment that you were also going to be creating more pressure, an already high pressurized situation, that now you've added this added thing of if we win, we'll have made a point to the President of the United States? I think because it happened mid-tournament, and we were sort of already in the mode, and we have so much pressure already. And the first game, we already had controversy over the celebrating. That was so dumb. I'm just like, you like you guys really is this what we're talking about winning we're scoring it's fine it's totally fine that's what you do when you we do end zone dances yeah we have a dunk like come on yeah i mean why do we why do we gotta be picked apart about it they

don't want america to score the most goals and be super pumped about it they shouldn't let us in the sport you know what i mean exactly don't allow us to play you know very uh very sip up our lip shit you know what i mean oh no we're gonna only score the goals we need no yeah no we're not we're definitely not so i think because it happened like it did and we were already in the moment it was already just wild as it could be and there's there's no more pressure that you could put on. It's like you have to win the World Cup in spectacular fashion. What else is more than that? Not even Donald Trump is more pressure than that. But I think it was a little – it actually happened at a good time

within the cycle of our games as well because we had a few days in between before the game, so we were able to like digest it and address it i dressed it like kind of head on in the press conference and then it was just sort of put away and then yeah we played in the craziest craziest game that game against france was amazing the atmosphere was like nothing i've ever experienced yeah that's so cool uh so you are you might have noticed there's a primary happening on the Democratic side. It's like 35 people running. I know.

You are going to be the most wanted surrogate in the history of presidential politics. Are you ready for that? I don't know. Is anyone interesting? Anybody making a couple of phone calls? Mayor Pete on line one, Elizabeth Warren on line two. Yeah. I think that there has been interest a little bit I have not heard directly

but I think maybe once the dust settles a little bit because I want to pick the winner right you know

yeah you don't want to be stuck with someone who just collapses yeah that's going to be really embarrassing

are you worried at all that dancing with Bill de Blasio is bad for your brand? Yes. Yes. Yes.

Definitely. He was on my float four years ago, and he was on it again this year. I thought, man, I hope he doesn't drag us down. The even funnier thing, better thing about your speech yesterday was when you, Governor Cuomo, is that it? It's Cuomo? Cuomo.

Cuomo. Yeah, they all need to hear it. Whatever. That was, honestly, you not knowing Cuomo's name in front of Bill de Blasio was the happiest moment of that man's life.

It all goes downhill from here. Yeah, that's the best thing that's ever happened to him. That was his highlight yesterday. We have to get you to Jimmy Kimmel, downhill from here. Yeah. That's the race. Everything else. That was yesterday. Um, we have to get you to, uh, to Jimmy Kimmel.

So we will, we will, we will leave you. Uh, thank you so much for, for joining us today and for coming here. This is, this is the highlight of most people who,

uh, most people who work here. This is the highlight right here. Yeah, this is pretty good. I have to say, um, you guys were vital in my preparation and readiness for the world cup

music has no longer um can no longer be a motivation for me in my workouts i'm just like i hate it i hate it i hate it i hate it i already know this song i can't listen to music i need something like to take me totally away from my workouts so like literally 80 percent of my workouts i listen to you guys in the podcast. It's long, too, so I can like get through the whole thing. Yeah, we're working on that. We're sorry. I stay abreast of the news and keep myself woke and keep myself educated.

Wow. You're like this shit at the gym? You're like instead of music, what would really pump me up is a Dan Pfeiffer, Paul Ryan. Yes, yes. That's what I need right now. Seriously. Wow. I, yes. That's what I need right now. Seriously. Wow. I love it.

You guys delivered the news in such an easy way to digest and learn. You're so smart. You're so entertaining. So thank you for that. Otherwise, it's like I probably wouldn't have been prepared and then like, don't trouble people. Like, see, I told her. She's trying to win.

Do we get that in close-up? It's the best thing that's ever happened to us. We're going to pump that out there in the world. So really, you guys won the World Cup. We won the World fucking Cup. Yeah, you did. Megan Rapinoe, thank you for being here. Congratulations again.

You're the best. Thank you so much. Thank you next time. I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm