Pod Save America - “Mitch McConnell, Welcome to the Resistance.” (with John Legend and Senator Warren!)

Episode Date: September 29, 2022

Sam Sanders joins Jon, Jon, Tommy, and Dan live from SiriusXM! The January 6th committee delays their hearing among new revelations about Roger Stone, the Senate moves closer to passing the Electoral Count Act thanks to Mitch McConnell, and special guests Senator Elizabeth Warren and John Legend join to talk about the midterms. Plus, the hosts of Crooked’s Gen Z podcast Dare We Say join for a battle of the generations.Check out Crooked Radio on SiriusXM progress starting 10/1, Get up to 4 months free: http://siriusxm.com/crooked For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.  

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Jon Lovett. Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.. I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Jon Lovett. Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We got a very big show for you today. Sam Sanders is here to join us for the news. Sam is the host of the brand new culture podcast, Into It, and the podcast, Vibe Check? Yes.

On Vox. So, Sam, welcome. Thank you. It's good to be here. So good to have you back. It's always awesome to be here. Funny, funny, funny co-hosts. You should check out the show. Yes, yes. Zach and Saeed, good God.

We'll also be talking about the midterms with one of our all-time favorite senators and friends of the pod, Elizabeth Warren. We also figured the show wouldn't be complete without an EGOT winner. So John Legend is here to talk about some of the criminal justice initiatives he's been working on. And later we'll be facing off with the host of Crooked's Gen Z podcast, Dare We Say, in a game that's designed to make us feel old. One more big announcement. We are recording this episode at the SiriusXM studios in L.A. right now

because every weekend from now until the midterm elections, Crooked Media will be taking over the Progress Channel on Sirius XM Radio. We're calling it Crooked Radio. Presenting Crooked Radio. Sorry. I accidentally said lady-o. Let me start over.

Presenting Crooked Radio. Do you think that works? Does that work? Yeah. I don't know how much more we could have expected from Crooked Lady-o. I think we got everything out of it that we could. This is our first time on the lady-o. I stole that joke from an extended version of the lady-o thing that we cut.

Anyway, look for Crooked Radio on your satellite radio dial. You can listen to Pod Save America and all of your favorite Crooked Media podcasts. And before we start, you can probably tell we have an audience in the house today. These are volunteers from Vote Save America. Thank you guys for coming. Thank you for being with us. They have been canvassing and phone banking, and you should too. Everyone at home, if you haven't already, please remember to sign up at VotesAveAmerica.com.

It is not too late. This is when we need your help the most. VotesAveAmerica.com. All right, let's get to the news. The January 6th committee postponed this week's season premiere of Insurrection because of Hurricane Ian. But there's still plenty of news to discuss. We weren't going to let a we weren't going to let a January 6th hearing go. No, because just just because it was postponed.

We're still going to talk about it. Plenty of ongoing threats of democracy from Donald Trump and his goon squad. We learned that the committee has footage of longtime Trump adviser and convicted criminal Roger Stone, threatening violence and plotting to overturn the election. Let's take a listen. Let's just hope we're celebrating. I suspect it'll be, I really do suspect it will still be up in the air. When that happens, the key thing to do is to claim victory. Possession is nine tenths of the law.

No, we won. F*** you. Sorry, over. We won. You're wrong. F*** you. F*** the violence. F the violence the voting let's get right to the violence shoot to kill see you see an antifa shoot to kill come done with this bullshit that guy's a piece of work it's real um it's really a third act tony montana vibes just like we'll go to war

i'll take down the whole cartel, you know? Fucking piles of coke. Tommy, where does Roger Stone fit into the case that the committee is trying to make about January 6th? So we do know that from the Cassidy Hutchinson testimony that on January 5th, Trump told Mark Meadows to ask Roger Stone and Michael Flynn, another sort of sociopath who's lost touch with reality, what was going to happen the next day. So Trump seemed to think that Stone had some special, unique insight that he wanted to know as president of the United States. We also

know that Mark Meadows, then chief of staff, called Roger Stone, called Flynn the evening of the 5th, considered going over to their little makeshift war room with Steve Bannon at the Willard Hotel. And the Oath Keepers, a white nationalist, racist, fringe militia group, was providing security for Roger Stone. They were later very much involved in the violence. So long story short, Roger Stone, as we saw, is sort of planning this little coup out loud. He was actively seeking out violence and talking directly to Trump. So it seems like they're weaving that all together.

Sam, what else do we know about what the committee is planning to focus on when we do have this next hearing? And what are some of the big decisions that they still have to make before they wrap this thing up? I mean, I don't know. I just hope that they focus on this Roger Stone foolishness. It seems like this is a game changer because now we know that Trump can't claim as if he didn't expect violence. One of his top advisors, one of his really good friends was hoping for violence and saying, let's get violent. And he was in conversation with Donald Trump the day before. So if I were them, I would just take that home every day. Right.

What else can you really talk about? Yeah. And I think they can like they can probably decide if they're going to subpoena Trump or subpoena Mike Pence and say, all right, now you have to tell us your conversations with Stone or subpoena members of Congress and get that more information. But is it in their best interest to get Trump on a stand? Because he will just spin around in circles and find new tangents to distract us and point over there and say, look over there. And then they all will. I'm not sure it makes sense for them to have Trump. But like, would it help their case?

But like, would it help their case? But like would it help their case? You know, it's about ratings, right? Viewers? Ratings wise, maybe. Do you think also they should put up on the screen the giant back tattoo of Richard Nixon's face

that Roger Stone has? It is like, I do wonder at some point if all of this is like diminishing marginal returns because it's like, we do also know that trump wanted violence after cassidy hudgens testimony when she was like oh yeah he

was like don't use the mags for people coming in with weapons to january 6th because uh they're not going to hurt us anyway yeah i feel like you know they're not going to change any minds i don't think trump will ever see true punishment but i do think that they can keep it top of mind keep it top of mind make Keep it top of mind. Make sure people know that this is still a big deal. I think the problem for the whole party now is that people are forgetting about the things that Dems want to talk about, and they're talking about what Abbott and DeSantis want to talk about. And so how do you direct attention to this bullshit? Right.

to this bullshit. Right. Well, Dan, the other big decision that the committee is going to have to make is do they send a criminal referral to the Justice Department after they wrap things up? How much does that matter at this point since it seems like Merrick Garland

and DOJ are finally on the case? I would say that a official criminal referral from Congress has the same legal force as my last tweet which is strong it's saying a lot there's a lot of people on twitter who are who believe that they are federal prosecutors that they are that their tweets are important and the juries will see them so something to think about it has no force of law It's not going to make Merrick Garland more likely to prosecute Trump. Think of it maybe like as a polite nudge. There was a fear at the beginning of this process when there was a lot of reporting

on this debate within the committee about whether they do it or not, that it would somehow make Merrick Garland less likely to pursue a case because it would seem like it was political pressure on Trump. But Merrick Garland already has like nine cases going against Trump right now. So I don't think this matters one bit at all, either in terms of whether Trump actually gets charged with a crime or whether we can judge this committee as a success. I think it's kind of a distraction or red herring.

His dance card's pretty full at this point with Trump crimes. Yeah. Yeah. And he's not a fast, fast moving fellow, that Merrick Garland. He's very methodical. He takes his time. I've just stopped expecting anything to happen to Trump. I think the only thing that these committee hearings can do is make sure we keep thinking about what he did.

But I don't see any of these cases putting him inside of a jail. I don't see any of these cases making him pay for any crimes. I mean, I think you could end up with an indictment but i what i'm afraid of i don't think an indictment would stop him from running for president in fact i think that would just sort of would get him yeah speed up the process if anything more strong behind you know yeah in every great movie about like a hostage situation there's always the outside plot and the inside plot you know it's too boring to just have the people on the outside trying to get the people stuck on the inside out so you have the there's always like the hostage is trying to get out from inside and they got a scheme going and then people on the outside are

trying to get them out too i see it that way who's bruce willis yeah give us the who's who is this ransom like what we were talking about here it could be ransom remember ransom never seen ransom what is gary sinise mel gibson before was there a before uh he probably was always like that so good he probably was always like before we knew yeah before we knew before we knew anyway but the point is i don't know we don't there are things we can control we think we can't i think we have to act as if i think that anyone who has been waiting for the justice department or the judicial process to save us or save democracy have been disappointed continuously. So we look, I think we can wake up.

I don't want to predict. We can wake up pleasantly surprised. Crazier things have happened than Donald Trump being frog marched down Fifth Avenue in handcuffs. But it's too nice to think about. So we have to actually beat them. You know who hasn't been waiting around? The Senate. How about that?

Yeah. The Senate. Nice. Hey, John. What a segue. What a segue. who hasn't been waiting around? The Senate. How about that? Yeah. The Senate. Nice. Hey, John. What a segue. What a segue. That's how,

that's how, that's why it gets, that's why the big chair. It's not even, it's not even on the iPad. It's not even on the iPad. They are, they look like they are about to pass

bipartisan legislation to prevent the next coup from happening thanks to resistance hero, Mitch McConnellcconnell who has announced his support for the electoral and joe mansion see to me this is a bigger deal yeah our two heroes they return you know for one for one last heist so mcconnell basically said that he is he announced his support for the electoral count Count Act reform over the strenuous objections of Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, and most of the House Republicans who tried to overturn the last election.

Tommy, what are the highlights of this bill? You want some highlights? I would love some highlights. I'll give you some highlights. Insurrectionists hate this one weird trick. Wow. Sorry, go on. So as you probably all can recall, Trump's sort of theory of the case legally was that the vice president basically had carte blanche authority to overturn

the results of the election. This bill would spell out no, that the vice president's role is strictly ceremonial. And it would change the number of members of the house or the senate that need to object to a state's electors for that to go forward so it's a big deal and it also sort of closes the loophole that would allow governors and state legislatures to just overturn the results of the election on their own yeah i mean it basically what it does with that is it there's a judicial process involved so like no governor or state legislature on their own um can decide to just overturn an election send their own slate of electors like there has to be judicial review so well and it like ups the threshold for congress to oppose the results right so it's like either one third or a

fifth yeah it's been debated and like that for me is the big deal like that's bigger than whatever the january 6th committee does this is like honest bipartisan work to make sure that that won't happen again. And I don't know, I don't want to be like, thanks Mitch, but this is a big deal. I agree. I think it's great.

And so many Democrats are so excited about solving the vice presidential problem until you remind them that Kamala Harris is the vice president. Which just to remind some people. Where is she? The, yeah, I, I do worry a little bit that that that we're fighting the last war not the next war uh i i worry a little about putting our first of all this if they want to pursue their you know whatever they call it their legislative supremacy argument they will take it to the supreme court and claim this law is unconstitutional. I still think it's absolutely worth doing, but I don't think it should give us any kind of comfort

that they won't find a way to manipulate the system. I mean, these are basically, this is a set of rules to try to make law what were just sort of assumptions that certain things weren't politicized, certain ways of manipulating the system just weren't done. I think part of the reason you have Republicans coming on board with this in the Senate is they would like that. They would like to not feel as though some of the things that they're being told as a decision is a decision. They want to go back to before when they didn't have to feel as though they were paying a

political price simply for certifying election. And fine, hopefully that works. But this is about power. And the only way we can really stop them is preventing Republicans from being in positions of power to break the law, deny the outcomes of elections. And no, no law from Congress can do everything. I think it's a good thing. I think it's worth doing, but I don't think it should give us false comfort. I, I, I sort of disagree because I think, look, if it was just the clarifying the role of the vice president, it's not a big deal. It's not going to do much. What it does around the state

legislatures and, and governors is a big deal because we've talked a lot about these Republican candidates like Doug Mastriano becomes governor of Pennsylvania, Carrie Lake becomes governor of Arizona, or we have Republican secretaries of state in those states. They have a lot of power to just send an alternate slate of electors to not certify an election. This would rob them of that power and send it to the courts now are we worried that the courts are stacked with a bunch of right-wing lunatics yeah of course but at some point they're like it's either going to be the the justice system or the state legislatures or the governors or congress yeah that does this like there's going to be someone in charge that figures this out so i'd rather it be the justice system than republican state legislatures and Republican government.

But I think the I'm for it. It definitely raises the degree of difficulty stealing an election. But where the insurrection is going to happen in 2024 is going to be between when the votes are cast and when the election is certified at the state level is going to be local precinct leaders, local county assessors not counting votes, refusing to certify at the canvassing boards, et cetera. It's not going to be the governor and the state legislature doing it just in front for everyone to see. It's going to be piecemeal.

Just enough votes to make up that 40,000 vote difference was the difference between Joe Biden getting elected and Donald Trump returning to the White House. That is very true. But that is why that can only be changed at the state level, right? Like those local precincts. That's why we've got to flip state legislatures across this country. But I just, right. And then you worry that all of a sudden through this new law we've passed, it's harder for

us to object to what we believe is an illegitimate election that is certified by Republican officials at the state level. Then a court will. Yes. All I'm saying, I'm for it. We should do it. We should do everything we can to codify as much as we can. The only way we will actually stop them from overturning a democracy is by winning these local elections.

That is the thing. 99% of this is that. That's all. That said, to see Mitch McConnell get behind this kind of bill, I'm still like, oh. Why do you think he did it? Why do you think Mitch McConnell did it? I don't think they like that kind of chaos. I think if you are a Mitch McConnell in Congress on the day of the insurrection, in the back of your head, you're saying, what power do I have? What control do I have? This is chaos that affects my job and my life. Whatever party you are, you want some semblance of order. And they have to have that so they can do something. And the last thing they want is to not know who's in charge and to have chaos that ends up with their house being ransacked again.

I also, it's definitely notable that there's sort of a slightly different version of this bill in the house. And the only yes votes from Republicans were ones who had, were retiring or who had lost a primary. It was only those who had no longer had a political fear of Donald Trump. So, you know, look, I don't give Mitch McConnell credit for much, but I agree with what Sam was saying about him not liking the chaos and not liking the institutions looking like the jokes that they look like after the 2020 election. But I also think like he has shed a little bit of his fear of Trump, as we've seen over the months and years. I think that's right. And I also wonder if once a bunch of his Republican senators were on board this legislation,

if he wondered about the politics of blocking a bipartisan bill to stop the next coup a couple weeks before the election. Yeah. Probably not great politics. I think a lot of Republican senators like being choked but not being hanged. Okay. Wait, let's walk through this one. Is this like the other metaphor? other metaphor i mean i want it explained i do too i want to know all right who's doing the joke with six weeks to go until election day uh mcconnell and some other republicans would like

to keep trump out of the news some of them would um but that's going to be a bit harder thanks to next tuesday's release of uh new york times Times reporter Maggie Haberman's eagerly awaited Trump book, Confidence Man. So Maggie wrote a preview in The Atlantic and a few outlets got copies of the book. So we already have plenty of tidbits. And let me tell you, it doesn't seem like the guy was the best president. It's not. I'll just, that's the spoiler alert from what I've read. What have you guys found from the excerpts and reporting that's new, surprising, particularly notable?

Any favorites? Nothing surprising. Nothing surprising. Maggie's like, oh, my God, I think he's racist. Oh, my God, I think he's transphobic. Oh, my God, Maggie, yeah. I'm just like, what annoyed me the most about the Maggie Habermanification of covering Trump during his time in the White House was that journalists like her tried to ascribe some greater method or reason or logic to his madness. There's none.

And you read this Atlantic preview she wrote. She does this long, winding piece about her interviews with Trump. And then she gets to the last graph and says, yeah, there's no reason with him. He's just crazy. We knew. And so, but I think that's, that's useful.

No, it's not. I'm just saying, he's basically saying this guy's a maniac. Yeah. There's nothing. Counterpoint. What's the counterpoint?

He's crazy. I'm going to read this book. Love it. Loves him. I'm going to read it cover to cover. And I know people are mad at her for, for sitting on scoops. I hope she sat us some more for a sequel. I'm going to read this book. Love it. Loves him. I'm going to read it cover to cover. And I know people are mad at her for sitting on scoops. I hope she sat on some more for a sequel. I'm in.

What scoop is there left on Donald Trump? How? But that's what I. This is what I don't. It's just like. People are both mad. It's like tidbits. People are both mad she sat on things for the book and then mad that they don't think

the book has anything new. And for me, I just like, I'm living in the details. I just don't know. She said Jason Miller. She said she. Donald Trump said in this book, you know how some guys, you always kind of knew they were gay? Not Jason Miller, not even 1%. I'm sorry, that's funny. I think there's a lot of news that maybe Lovett didn't read over the last four years.

And this is like, this is the recap. I'm catching up. I just say, I think it's like, look, you know, I think what happened to Maggie's book is I think a lot of things that were probably more blockbuster news kind of came out in the January 6th committee hearing process, because that's, you saw her leaking out stuff along the way, which I'm sure he hated doing. She's trying to sell a book. It's notable to me that he did three sit down interviews. Like this guy, again, not a surprise to anybody, but he's so thirsty for the mainstream hated doing she's trying to sell a book um is notable to me that he did three sit-down interviews like this guy again not a surprise to anybody but he's so thirsty for the mainstream media attention

that he then attacks i did love i like the little details too i like the anecdote that trump nearly fired uh jared and ivanka via a tweet his own daughter but john kelly of all people stopped him and it really made me lose respect for john kelly because like you had him where you wanted him and you fucking you fumbled the bag man but there were some things where they're like this is a scoop and i'm like nah that's just like people dude like when i like donald trump saw this room full of black staffers and asked him to get the food and i was like not just donald trump like a lot of people do this shit i don't know it's just nothing about like it wasn't surprising no and i think that like there's this kind of like liberal desire to have like the one nasty trump story that takes him out it doesn't exist we're still waiting on that it doesn't

exist that's why i don't get quite get the anger at maggie for the withholding thing like yeah like your criticism that it's nothing new, that's fair. Oh, is she going to report out a story that... Citizens arrest. He lost. He lost in 2020. You think he's going to report a story that he's going to be like, I quit. I'm out. I'm out of public life. If she reported that Donald Trump was having KKK meetings in the Lincoln

bedroom, at this point, it wouldn't change shit. Nothing. It wouldn't change shit. If anything, better to have it come out in your own election. I don't care. Sam, to this point it wouldn't change shit nothing it wouldn't change shit better better to have it come out in your own election i don't care sam to this point the washington post led their excerpt about this focusing on this excerpt uh of trump apparently wanting to use the u.s military to bomb cartels in mexico and i was like i literally saw a clip of him bragging about this to a wedding party in mar-a-lago three weeks ago. Exactly. I'm not joking.

Exactly. And this is not news. That is the plot of Clear and Present Danger, a film he saw and got the idea from. Well, there was a thing where it's just like. Cellulose encased laser guided bomb. That's for no one. Go on. I think his cruelty was underscored in some of these excerpts.

go on i think his his cruelty was underscored in some of these excerpts you know when when he is being asked to speak to trans issues he's asking if a hypothetical college student asking about trans rights is cocked or uncocked yeah and so like the cruelty is underscored and it's it's it's horrible it's demeaning but it's it's also just still not surprising i thought what was most insightful about his mindset was during one of the interviews with her when she asked, would you do it all over again? And he said, yeah, of course. He's like, I got a bunch of rich friends and no one knows who they are. It's like that is why he does this.

And also, we all knew who he was. We all knew who he was. But the hunger for attention and fame is like the driving force of Donald Trump. It's not the money. It's the attention. There's all these new... We just keep remaking the Jeffrey Dahmer story over and over again, trying to find something more interesting about these serial killers.

And I was thinking about that because when I saw that quote from him, it's like, there's nothing new to find. That's it. He just wants attention. He's broken. He wants attention. It's been true for seven years, true for 30 years the utility of the jeffrey dahmer story goes way up if jeffrey dahmer still walking the streets absolutely that's what's happening right now that's right that's why he's writing the message box yeah i do think part of

the that's how you that's how you get a sub stack going i've known maggie for like we all have for like 15 20 years i think one of the hard things of this whole presidency for her is she sort of felt like the cassandra for some of these things like she's known him since the 80s she knew he was a racist vino narcissist monster and like was it she was to some extent i think constrained by the boundaries of the profession and how political reporters are allowed to report. And I think maybe she's trying real hard but get some new blood in there and like have a new perspective on it when i read things from her now or her tweets even now it's just like they've almost incepted her i don't know i don't appreciate it i don't like it yeah i don't know that i agree with that i i i just think that she has walked a really delicate line. And like, I don't like I know that I know that we feel past it. I know that we feel we've

learned a lot. But I do think that we take a little bit for granted how much inside information we got over the last five years via Maggie Haberman. That was a lot of really valuable reporting. And I think sometimes she gets short shrift for just describing what she's hearing without putting much spin on it. And I can I hear that maybe that people feel as though it's a little too cozy, but I sometimes think it's unfair. Yeah, I think she's become for a lot of people, she's not perfect. No one has become an avatar for what people in the Trump era have been most frustrated about journalism because she's the most famous reporter covering Trump and she bears the burden of every mistake every reporter made in this process. I think the problem is just like what kind of

journalism was most important during the Trump years and the glorification of Maggie's style of reporting made us all believe that access journalism was the most important kind of journalism during those years. The most important kind of work was investigative journalism. That was more important. That was more important. And that was more important. I agree with that. Which gets short shrift. Speaking of people who drive Twitter nuts,

Nate Cohn had a New York Times piece today where he argued that after a few months where Donald Trump and abortion were dominating the news, the headlines are starting to shift back towards issues like the economy and immigration, which might help Republicans. Dan, do you buy this analysis? And should Democrats try their hardest to keep Trump in the news for the next couple of weeks? I'm just going to wait around till another nerd named Nate comes up with a contrary opinion in five minutes. That is the safest course. No, look, in all seriousness, I think Nate Cohn is onto

something here. Like you don't have to have done a thousand focus groups for the wilderness or anything else. If you were just paying attention to the news, it's pretty evident that immigration in part because of the stunts, the horribly cruel, largely legal stunts of Ron DeSantis and Greg Abbott, and just increasing fears about the economy have become a larger part of the news. In his article, Nate Cohn cites Google trends, Google search data, basically that people have been searching those more than abortion and democracy. That is, I would say, an imperfect tool to say the least, but so is polling. So there you go. I mean, it is, I think it is, we are, we know from 2016 and 2020, we're very bad at picking who's going to win, particularly in close races. But we do have a lot of ways to figure out what people are thinking about and talking about. Polling is part of that. But you also have search data. You have social sharing data. You can just look at what's in the news. And it's very clear that the issue environment has switched a little bit. That makes sense. There's been a lot of time since the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade. Not that abortion has fallen out of the news by any stretch of the

imagination. And it's been a long time since there was a January 6th hearing, right? Like we had the summer of January 6th hearings in Mar-a-Lago. And so the issue environment has shifted slightly towards issues that right now benefit Republicans. Doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. And we should think about as Democrats, as people working on campaigns, how do you switch it back, right? Because ultimately, politics is a battle for issue serience. What are voters thinking about when they make their decision? Are they going to think about the issues you want them to think about or the issues your

opponent wants them to think about? And if this hearing were to happen, I would have been part of it. Weirdly, Maggie's book helps keep Trump in the news. Keeping Trump in the news is very important, I think. I was talking to Sarah Longwell, who does focus groups for The Bulwark and her podcast, and I know you talked to her for The Wilderness a bunch, for an episode of Political Experts React that's coming out. And what she said, we're talking about the 2017 election in Virginia.

And what she said is that after Trump lost, Trump was on the ballot for all the people who love Trump, but not on the ballots for everyone who didn't like Trump. But since this summer, because of the decision on Roe and January 6th, Trump has become on the ballot for the people who kicked Trump out of office in 2020. And we have to keep that going if we are going to win. So we have to draw attention back to our issues and make this more a referendum on Republican extremism. And Trump is the best avatar for that. I think the top issue should be Roe and not Trump. I think that everyone has made their mind up on Trump. Every voter knows how they feel about him. I don't think enough voters have yet thought about the ways in which Roe being overturned affects them and their families' lives. And when they do start to think about it, the numbers shift. There's some data that since Roe was overturned, fathers have shifted like 28

points from R to D. That's what I would keep in the headlines. I don't actually think that Trump, Trump, Trump till November does a better job than saying they're going to take away all of our right to abortion. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think what we largely want to say, we want this election to be about Republican extremism. There is no better real world example that's affecting more people's lives than Roe. And then all of this is a part of that, right? It is book bans. It is the attacks on the LGBTQ plus community. It is everything Ron DeSantis is what Ron DeSantis did in Martha's Vineyard. And Trump is a part of that as well. And we keep that story. And that story only works if Roe is

at the center of it. But I think for a large part of our voters, keeping them engaged, keeping them donating, Trump is a part of that. And we're going to want to keep that out there. That's true. But Roe can get you voters who even kind of like Trump. Yeah. And especially in a state like Arizona, where they just put back in place an abortion law that would criminalize abortion and put abortion providers in jail. That's a real world thing that's happening that's scary to people. I also think back to the Virginia example. One thing we learned from that Virginia governor's race

is you can't force Trump into a race where he might not fit. Like Terry McAuliffe calling him Glenn Trumpkin did not work. that virginia governor's race is you can't force trump into a race where he might not fit like terry mccullough calling him glenn trumpkin not a did not work i don't know if you guys noticed that was great i think it worked we would have said it was good i think look i was clever i thought in terms of like look i think when trump's in the news it's going to be better for democrats but i think in terms of what democrats should do, you're right that Republican extremism is what the election has to be about. And we have to do a better job defining what Republican extremism means for you, right? And so what are the consequences of Dobbs? What are the consequences of their economic plans? What are the consequences

of what they're trying to do in states to LGBTQ kids, right? Like that, like, we got to hit the consequences more of Republican votes and Republican policies going forward. That is why the so many Democrats have centered on MAGA Republicans or MAGA extremism, not Trump Republicans, because Trump actually helps with some voters who think think of him an outsider, but MAGA Republicans allows you to try to get the extremism with the terrible, corrupt Washington, D.C. Republicans like Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell. Who are also not that popular. Okay. When we come back, we will talk to Massachusetts Senator Elizabeth Warren. Please welcome the Democratic Center for Massachusetts, Elizabeth Warren.

Senator Warren, welcome back to Pod Save America. It's good to be with you. You guys should applause. You're an audience. They were stunned. They were stunned to see you. They forgot how to behave. Look, I get it. I'm not there in person. So we've got to do this remotely.

It's tough. It's tough. You've got to give us all clues as we go through this. We're here in the Sirius studio. We have a great audience here. They're very excited for you. Don't listen. They were just rude a minute ago.

What they did was obnoxious and rude. And they're sorry. They're going to feel terrible later. But we're moving past it. OK. OK. I'll buck up. All right. Senator Warren, inflation is the biggest issue affecting our economy. It's one of the biggest issues affecting this midterms. You have been very critical of the approach that

Chairman Powell and the Fed have been taking to fighting inflation. What do you think they're doing wrong and what should they be doing instead? So we have to think of inflation. What do you think they're doing wrong and what should they be doing instead? So we have to think of inflation. This is about high prices for families. That's a real problem. And so the question is, what causes the problem and what are your tools to fix it? What kind of things are causing inflation right now? Actually, COVID still is shutting down economies in different parts of the world. Supply chain kinks that we still have. The war in Ukraine that not only affects energy prices, but also the question about supplies of wheat around the world. And price gouging. You know, those giant corporations that say as long as we're raising prices, and everybody's talking about inflation, let's take an extra big scoop on prices and boost our profits.

Okay, that's what we got going on. So what is the appropriate response to that? Chairman Powell opens his toolbox, and he's got basically one tool, raise interest rates. basically one tool, raise interest rates. And his idea is raise interest rates and that will slow down the economy and put a lot of people out of work. And that means people will buy less. But notice, it doesn't do anything about COVID. It doesn't do anything about the supply chain. It doesn't do anything about the war in Ukraine. It doesn't do anything about price gouging. And in fact, Chairman Powell has actually said that to me in banking hearings. Nope, can't affect any of those things. So here's my concern. When Chairman Powell is not

just moving interest rates up and saying he wants to slow the economy, he is taking extreme steps, steps like we have not seen in a very long time, just banging away on three quarters of a point, three quarters of a point, pushing those interest rates up very far, very fast. What he risks is tipping the economy into a recession, too much of a jerk on the economy. And so now we're in a position where, let me get this straight, what we could end up with is prices don't come down because many of the things, not everything, but many of the things that affect those prices are not going to be affected by higher interest rates. And the economy goes into recession and more people are out of work. So the way I look at this is what is worse than high prices and low

unemployment? It's high prices and high unemployment. And that's where I am afraid that Chairman Powell is taking us. It's been 40 years since we dealt with inflation. As you point out, this is the last time we dealt with inflation. This is the exact path the Fed took, Chairman Volcker did at the time. What would be a different approach than other than sort of trying to force down demand in wages to lower the cost of goods? Well, one way is to increase supplies. And that's exactly what the Biden administration is trying to do right now. So every time the United States and other countries invest in getting COVID under control, for example, getting more people vaccinated so you don't have to shut down factories and you don't have to shut down transit, then, by golly, we take another step toward getting things normalized

and bringing those prices back down. Plenty of goods available. Second one, same sort of thing on supply chain. Every time we can unkink a supply chain, then we're doing better on pricing. Everything we can do to try to bring down the price of petroleum, of energy, which the president has been doing, strategic oil reserves, and so on. And then the other one is go after the big corporations that are engaged in price gouging. And the Department of Justice is doing a certain amount of that. The FTC is doing a certain amount of that. and it helps. All of those, though, are things that

help bring down prices. I'll mention a second one. Remember where we started this. Why does this matter? It matters because it's hitting at the family level. And here is where Democrats and Republicans couldn't be in different places. Democrats are doing everything they can to try to bring down costs for families. Look at the Inflation Reduction Act. What do we do? We're trying to bring down the cost of health care, give Medicare a chance to negotiate prescription drug prices, put a cap on what people pay for insulin, put a cap. I want seniors have to pay for prescriptions. What else are we doing? We're putting in place this giant climate bill

whose goal is to bring down utility costs for families. And by the way, all paid for by a 15% minimum corporate tax that I think we've been talking about for a long time. But those are things that go directly to the costs that families are bearing every day. It's not as sexy. It doesn't get as many headlines. But it is truly Democrats fighting to bring down costs for families.

And where are Republicans on this? They scream, they yell, they say inflation over and over. And what are the number of ideas they have for what to do about it? Zero. I'm glad you brought that up because the, you know, Republicans, despite the fact that they have been, they have no ideas, they've been wrong on policy, the economy's been better under Democratic presidents, all of the polling shows that Republicans have an advantage on the economy. And that's not new. That's been true. That was true in 2020, 2018, 2016, basically every election since 2012. Are there specific things that Democrats could do or say that you think could help sort of narrow that gap or address that discrepancy as we headed in the election? help sort of narrow that gap or address that discrepancy as we headed in the election?

Well, I think part of it is exactly that. Let's just draw the contrast. Let's just remind people, not at some fancy theoretical level, but at a, let's make a list. What are the things, not just that Democrats have promised and that demonstrate who we're fighting for, but what is it that Democrats have delivered? We've delivered on health care. We're in the middle of delivering on utility costs. We have delivered on student loan debt, right? We have done things to actually bring down costs for families at the same time that the Republicans not only have zero ideas, How do I say this? They have negative ideas. Their ideas are don't do those things that would bring down costs for families. So that I mean, look, I think that's pretty insulting to Kevin McCarthy, who this week

pretended to eat in a diner while rolling out what they're calling a commitment to America. It was one page of it, it was a list. There were words and bullets, ostensibly an agenda of some kind. What did you make of the commitment to America? So I have to say on this, read the first one. I really wish right now that we had the, like you could put it up on the board behind us.

I don't think we can. The first one of these actually was an economic, we're going to lower costs for family and it was a generic description of exactly what the democrats have done and so i feel like there's this moment if they say hey that's actually good stuff this is like how they did on the infrastructure bill right or how they did on the first uh on the covered relief package the covered relief package, the COVID relief package, where there's help out there for small businesses, they all vote against it, and then they go home. And when there's actually some relief delivered, they show up at the ribbon cutting and say, you're welcome, you're welcome to everybody. While they fought on the opposite side. And I think

that's the part we have to keep hammering on. And by the way, let me just, if I can, raise the stakes a little bit here. It's not just that Republicans have no good ideas for dealing with inflation. It's not only they're fighting the things we're trying to do. They're looking for things that would make the economy affirmatively worse for tens of millions of American families. Ron Johnson, Senator from Wisconsin, says that instead of voting every five years on whether to keep Social Security, which is the official Republican position evidently right now in the Senate, Ron Johnson says, let's vote every single year. Let's say to those people who are depending

on social security, you just got a few more months where you're guaranteed to have it. And then next year it could completely run out. That is the guy who is now carrying the torch for Republicans, the incumbent in Wisconsin which is why let me just be clear on this Mandela Barnes we need you in the United States Senate we need you because we got to get rid of Ron Johnson somebody whose whole idea on how to fix the economy is let's put Social Security at risk.

And of course, while he's at it, let's make sure that women who need access to abortions actually run the possibility that they'll be violating the law, that doctors could be put in jail for performing needed medical procedures. This is the extreme end of the Republican Party. And to me, that's what this fight is all about. It's about economics. It's about extremism. But it's also about showing up for people like Mandela Barnes. And anybody who's listening to this, who really cares about these issues,

let me just ask you, send a little money to mandelabarnes.com. He needs help because he's up against an extremist who is telling a story both about Mandela and about the economy that just doesn't jibe with our reality and is deeply, deeply dangerous. AARON MATÉ Earlier today, President Biden attempted to recognize a Republican member of Congress for her vote, but she had actually sadly passed away in August. He thought she was in the room.

Do you think that this is a gaffe because only dead democrats vote um or is that do you think i misread the the controversy i i i do not know about this okay well i'm glad we were all here for elizabeth lawrence last interview on pod saves america i'm sorry i don't know why I did that. Before we let you go, thank you so much for your time. Before we let you go, there is somebody here tonight.

They're an aspiring musician out of Springfield, Ohio. And they're trying to do their best to kind of help out, but they're worried about the future of democracy. And he just wanted to say hello. And hopefully, we thought maybe you, Senator Warren, could buck up our guests.

Here he is. Hello. It's. Whoa. And look, look, you know, he's he's trying to keep people's spirits up, but he's worried, you know, he's an aspiring musician. An album. I aspire every day. Hello. Hello.

Hello, Senator Warren. How are you? Listen, I'm a lot better for seeing you. Better than that last thing we just did. I'm sorry. Oh, man. I have nothing to do with the last question you got. Good to see you.

How are you? I'm doing great. Good. I am worried about democracy. I'll question you got. Good to see you. How are you? I'm doing great. Good. I am worried about democracy, I'll tell you that. Do you have words of hope for us? You know, I do. We got an election coming up in November.

And we got a lot of days between now and then. What have we got? About five weeks between now and then, right? Almost six. We should be out. We got a chance to get out there every day and affect the direction that our nation takes. You and I both get this. I mean, we've talked about this for a long time, only it's just gotten worse.

The difference between the two parties, the Democrats who are fighting to try to make life better for working people to expand opportunity, the Democrats who try to live in the real world and try to deal with the real problems that people have, and the Republicans that have just become extremists, extremists on abortion, extremists on violence. If they lose, then they talk about taking to the streets. This is our moment. I don't want to wake up on the day after the election and say, gee, we could have given it a little more. So my word of hope is now is the time when it's still open, when it's still in your hands. And can I give my most hopeful?

We get two, just two additional Democrats in the United States Senate. Keep the ones we got and add two, and yes, I'm looking at you, Mandela Barnes in Wisconsin. I'm looking at you, John Fetterman in Pennsylvania. Yes. And I'm looking at how much fun they're having in Ohio and North Carolina right now. So we've even got some more.

Come on, Tim Ryan. But yes. But we had two more Democratic senators, two additional ones, who are willing to roll back the filibuster. And we hang on to the House. And all of a sudden, it's not like, okay, just for the skin of our teeth, we can do the things we need to do and we can fight this through. We were just talking about the things we've already gotten done.

Think about the things we can do now with that team. Because we can actually ensure voting rights for every American citizen. The vote, and to get that vote counted. We can ensure that Roe versus Wade is the law of the land every year. We could do universal childcare. You know, we can do the things that work for American families. We can do immigration reform.

These are the things that we can come together and work on. And we can invite the Republicans to be part of this. We can do a whole national conversation around it. But the difference between where we are, if we get those couple of additional senators, and if the Republicans are able to take control, this really is, John, you got it right. This is about our democracy. I'm really scared for us. So this is the moment to use your hope, to motivate yourself, to get up off your feet and get out there. Give some money. Make some phone calls. Knock on some doors and make it happen. Don't you believe we could do this, John? I believe it.

Let's do it. Let's do it. My God. Senator Elizabeth Warrenren thank you so much for your time and we'll be right back john legend's gonna stick around graciously uh thank you so much joining us today the aspiring young musician who uh just asked elizabeth warren a question uh passionate advocate for criminal justice reform longtime friend of the pod who just released a brand new album called legend john legend thank you hello everybody we haven't done this live in a long time a long time yes

pre pre-pandemic yes definitely uh congrats on the new album. Thank you. It's been my soundtrack to and from work for the last couple of weeks. Well, I appreciate it. It's always interesting knowing my friends listen to my music and then knowing what people sometimes do to my music. Homework? Excel spreadsheets. excel spreadsheets it's uh i always wonder if that's a no-go for them people that know me have had dinner with me hung out with me if they want to invite me into that part of their life

no comment yeah sure let's get into it this is the house that howard stern built how is it making music at home during the pandemic were you like trapped on zoom like the rest of us except with like rick ross or somebody well we did have a few zoom recording sessions we don't record at home we have a studio uh it's like a house with a studio in it but it's like 15 minutes from where we live so we can get away and go to work um chrissy shot a lot of her cookbook there as well so it's like our work creative house um and so we go over there and i have a room that's just a studio and i would have people zoom in i'd have people come over you know at the beginning we all masked up like while we were writing songs together which is weird but we did it and like while we were writing songs together, which is weird, but we did it.

And then we just were writing songs, feeling like, you know, the light was visible at the end of the tunnel. Like we would have something to celebrate soon. It took, you know, some turns. And that was July of 2020. It took some turns, some ups and downs. But, you know, overall, it felt like we wanted to write a really like joyful fun sexy album and that's what we worked on starting in early 2021 well you did it thank you so let's talk politics because uh you're an activist but you're also a political nerd

yes very much so people know that uh so at some point in every campaign, Republicans hit Democrats on crime. This year is no different. You spent years advocating for the same criminal justice reforms that are now the target of a lot of Republican attacks. We're victims of our own success. Of course. How do you think Democratic candidates and activists should handle these kind of attacks at a time when a lot of people are actually concerned about crime and violence? I think, first of all, you acknowledge that people aren't crazy for feeling concerned about crime. I think crime is real. People feel it in their lives when they see homelessness in the street, when they see despair, when they read the news

and see what's being reported. they're not insane to feel like, oh, this feels like things are less safe than they were a couple years ago. And let's remind ourselves, we went through a once-in-a-century pandemic. There are all kinds of reasons why there was more despair, more of a sense of disconnection from society, and there was more crime,

particularly during the time in the from society. And there was more crime, uh, particularly during, during the time, uh, in the last two years there was. And so, first of all, we acknowledge that and, and don't act like they're crazy for feeling that, but also realize that we're already the most policed country in the world.

We spend more money on policing than anyone realize we're already, uh, the leading incarcerator in the world. And so if that were the thing, if those were the things that would make us the safest country in the world, we would be the safest country in the world. Because if those were the solutions, we would already be the safest country in the world. So the question is, well, what else could we do to make us safer? And then if you look at the statistics, the most dangerous states when it comes to gun violence are all Republican states.

So when the Republican politicians are attacking us on safety, on crime, and they're not going to do anything about gun violence, they're not going to do any kind of regulation. In fact, they're going to make it easier for you to get a gun now. Even after massacres, they go to the state legislature and write laws to make it easier for you to get a gun, easier for teachers to have guns in the classroom. We're not safer because of that. So we need to think about, in addition to, you know, Democrats are very astute at funding the police, despite our reputation. We've been part of building up this carceral state as well as a bipartisan project of being tough on crime. But if those things were going to be the solution to make us the safest country in the world, we would already be that. So what else can we do? Can we fight the spread of guns? Can we do other prevention programs like mental health and drug

addiction programs that will help us actually prevent crime? Can we just make families more whole and have the resources they need, the education resources they need, so that we're driving fewer kids to crime in the first place? Can we do some of those things in addition to all the other stuff we're doing to make sure that we really are a safer and a healthier society? So we got this big election coming up, as you folks out there know. Lots of people are focused on the Senate and talking about the House. You have spent a lot of time, years really, encouraging voters to look down the ticket, to meet their DA, to get to know their DAs, understand what a

progressive prosecutor does or doesn't do. Can you just help listeners kind of paint a picture of what electing someone like Larry Krasner in Philadelphia does in real terms versus maybe a more law and order DA? Well, being a district attorney, you have a decent amount of discretion. So we have laws that are written by our legislatures, but the way they're enforced, the way they're taken to court, the way that they're charged, and the way sentencing is recommended is usually via the district attorney, sometimes called the state's attorney in some states. And so they have a lot of discretion. So if you're thinking about, well, how do we figure out ways to use incarceration

less? How do we think about ways to have more diversion programs? How do we think about ways to get juvenile offenders out of the system? DAs are in a lot of ways the pathway to that because they have so much control over a lot of the discretionary decisions that are made. And so we've been working along with a bunch of other activists around the country on identifying progressive candidates to run for office and then for us to support. And I have personally gone out and stumped for some of these candidates, fundraised for them. Larry Krasner is one of them. And some of the reforms that they bring into bear are things like reducing the use of cash bail or eliminating cash bail. We're one of the only countries in the world that actually uses a cash bail system.

Again, if that were going to make us the safest country in the world, we would already be. So it's an unjust system because it basically imprisons you for being poor. Because they're not saying you're in jail because you're dangerous, they're saying you're in jail because you can't afford a certain amount of money. And that means you're in jail because you're poor. And sometimes the amount is $1,000. We saw with like Kalief Browder, it was not a lot of money for plenty of people in America, but it was a lot of money for him. And they used it as a leverage against him to get him to try to plead down. He didn't do it. He said he didn't do it. He insisted he didn't do it.

And so he stayed in jail because he couldn't afford bail and because they wouldn't let him out and tried to use that as leverage against him. He ended up dying because of the despair that Rikers brought into his life. Cash bail is an unjust system. It punishes people for being poor, and it locks up way too many people. And so there are progressive DAs around the country that have just decided, we're not going to use it. We're not going to ask for it. Krasner is one of them.

Kim Fox is one of them. And there are folks around the country that are doing that. And we support candidates that advocate those kinds of reforms. So important. So a big Senate race in your home state of Ohio. In Ohio. Tim Ryan. How do we turn your red state blue? Yeah, what happened? What's going on? Well, as you know, we already have a Democratic senator in Ohio. His name is Sherrod Brown. I love Sherrod.

And Ohio voted for Barack Obama. So it's not so distant the possibility that we would vote for another Democrat. And I feel like we need the right kind of Democrats in Ohio. And I feel like Tim Ryan is the right kind. And J.D. Pence is as bad at being a good Ohio candidate as you could be. When the deck is stacked in his favor, when it's a leaning red state that could be characterized as pretty red, and he's doing as poorly as he's doing in the polls, it's because he's not really that great of a candidate. And it's not just that. It's that Tim Ryan is actually a really good candidate. He really is empathetic. He understands

the concerns of working people in Ohio. I grew up in a working class family. My dad was an auto worker. My mother stayed at home with us. And so I can identify with a lot of the struggles that Ohioans feel, even though it's been a while since I've lived there. I remember what it was like growing up there, and I remember the culture there, and I feel like Tim Ryan is able to speak to that in a very authentic way, and I think he really has a good chance of winning there. I'm doing what I can to fundraise for him and to campaign for him, and I think we have a good chance of gaining a seat in Ohio. Yeah.

My in-laws tell me this all the time. Tim Ryan, yoga and football. J.D. Vance wants to ban porn. You got to tell everybody at the Buckeye Games that. That's a message. How do people not know that? Tell the college MAGA guys. Honestly, and we need to look at what they want to do to women's freedom.

That's a much more serious point. Now I feel like an asshole. I didn't know he wanted to ban porn. Yeah, it's crazy. I don't feel like that's a winning issue with very many people. Nobody's talking about it. You want to stick around for a game? Lovett came up with a game just for you.

I would love to play a game. Okay, great. Perfect. He's jogging. Love it jogged out. Sorry, I was reading message box to get ready for the new segment. Gotta know what to say. So this is a brand new game.

A brand new game. John Legend. John Love It. Is he the coolest friend of the pod? We can't say for sure, but he's in the conversation. I'm a genuine fan. I listen to you guys all the time.

It makes me nervous. So we've decided to enlist your help. We've all borne witness over the past few years to political moments that are deeply sincere and spine-tinglingly cringey. Okay. Sincere and cringey. Yes. Probably Democrats. Mostly. Yes.

Yeah. Republicans insurrect. Democrats read poems. Yes. Pen is mighty, or we hope. We sin-surrect. So it's time for a game we call nerd level zero okay oh look at that nice nice i'll read a moment you will all rank that moment on a scale of one to five bono poems how will we know who wins the winner is n Nancy Pelosi, but we're going to try to have fun. All right, here we go.

Okay. First moment to rank on a scale of one to five Bono poems, Nancy Pelosi and the Dems kneeling in Kente cloth. Add some Kente. I have to say, I have to plug our show, Sherman Showcase. We have an amazing song on the show called Add Some Kente. And I believe we used one of these photos. Nice. It was for a very special Black History Month edition that we did. Sincere and Crane.

This is about Max. Yeah. This is it. This is the standard. This is a five. We're starting with a five. Next, Nancy Pelosi reads a Bono poem about Ukraine. I got this message this morning from Bono.

Ireland's sorrow and pain is now the Ukraine and St. Patrick's name is now Zelensky. How about that? I think it's the smiling. Yes, I've never seen this clip i didn't know that it's brutal it's the um it's the can you believe it it's so good look what i just did it's a four maybe yeah i guess uh the thing is i feel like reading that poem would have gone over well in that moment but it was the faces that made it cringier. Yeah, it was tough.

It was tough. So I'm only going to rank that like a two or a three. Two or a three? Yeah. Okay, we're giving it a three. Next up, Andrew Yang trying to shoot a basketball. Oh. Oh.

Does this clip end? I don't think it's that cringy. I don't think so either. One, he shoots better than me. It did get worse as it went on, though. I will say that. Trick question. He's not a Democrat.

That is true. Third party. He's a forward party. Is that what it was? We'll give it a zero. You're going to give me a clip of someone being bad at sports? He needed his shot to be a little more forward, though. Yes. Next up.

Chuck Schumer trying to rap. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. No. No. No. Oh, no.

Oh, no. Oh, no. How have I never seen that? I don't know. I don't know how we're just seeing this for the first time. Is that rolling loud? When did that happen? Wow. That probably had to be in New York, right?

That's the only reason he would do this, right? Constituent services. Let's be honest. There's a camera. He'll be there. And this wasn't Rosh Hashanah. I don't think. What do we think?

Four? Yeah. Three to me. I feel like it's three. Yeah, because it's like, what are you going to expect? I feel like he knew he didn't have much sauce,

so he kept it brief. That's right. That's right. I agree with that. And so it's a three. Next up, Hillary Clinton doing the Macarena at the 1996 Democratic National Convention.

Brutal. Yeah, it's rules. I love it. They're having so much fun. It's awesome. That's joy. Dude just lost. Does this clip end?

Yeah, this is right. Oh, a rainbow flag. Wait a minute. Please help. She never does it. End the clip. Hillary never actually did the Macarena. She never throws it.

She knew her place, and she was like, I'm going to clap on every quarter note, and that is all I'm doing. That's right. She did the right thing. Y'all not going to make fun of me. She did the right thing. One, three, four.

You know, 20 years later. But I will not critique the unadulterated joy I saw in that room as well. I agree. I think that's right. What are we saying? They're having a good time. They're having fun.

They're not doing it for 2022. They were doing it back in 1996 when it was a cool dance. Everyone was into it. You act like you didn't make the game. Who are you yelling at? Yourself? He may not have picked Eclipse. He seems genuinely surprised by the clips.

Listen, in a lot of ways, this is a finely oiled machine. It runs itself. Hand me the cards. I read the cards. Next up, Ed Markey's breakfast tweet. Just for those listening at home, it's Ed Markey in front of a table that says Doritos. That has Doritos, Lay's, I believe a Snickers bar. Brought to you by Frito-Lay.

Milky Way and a Cheetos. So Ed Markey, not long for this world. But I don't think it's that cringy. I think it's cool., not long for this world. But I don't think it's that cringy. I think it's cool. It's like a little thirsty, but I don't think it's that cringy. It's funny because he's in pretty good shape, and he's old. And he has a great Boston accent. If that's what he's eating,

more power to him. Seriously. God bless him. I wish I could eat all that. He's a Duncan fan. Yes. What is the opposite of cringe? Yeah, it's the opposite of cringe. It's good. Yes. I support him. Show us something cringy, love it. What the hell opposite of cringe? Yeah, it's the opposite of cringe. It's good. Yes. I support him. Show us something cringy, love it. What the hell? Alright, fine. I'll do it. Next up,

Lin-Manuel Miranda giving a speech and the Hamilton cast performing Dear Theodosia to commemorate the January 6th insurrection. Oh. The description, the logline is not good. Lin-Manuel and his father and the Hamilton singers who we'll hear from said that they were all very honored

to be asked to participate today. I call your attention to... A new year brings hope for the future, new energy to face the tasks ahead of us, and a renewed promise to strengthen the foundations of our democracy. That's what I wrote about in the song Dear Theodosia from Hamilton. I believe no challenge is worth abandoning our efforts to unite as Americans. We'll keep working, generation after generation, until we reach that someday.

How long is this going to go on? Yeah, you'll blow us all away Someday I think this is good. I like this. This is working on me. I'm cringe. Strike me down. I love this.

Shame on the producers of this program. This is good. I mean, these talented people. I think it's great in isolation. Right. I don't think it was the right way to introduce January 6th hearings. I feel like this is really a game about Nancy Pelosi doing cringy things and some other people who ended up in here.

I'm losing him. I'm losing him. Go to Hillary Clinton saying Pokemon go to the polls. Go to Hillary Clinton doing the Pokemon Go to the polls. Go to Hillary Clinton doing the Pokemon Go to the polls things. Hurry. Because we're going to have

a lot of jobs. Jobs from building infrastructure to coding. Creating new apps. Apps. I don't know who created Pokemon Go. Nintendo.

All right. All right. Talk about it. But I'm trying to figure out how we get them to have pokemon go to the polls honestly it's still great it's a classic it's a classic you know what we're still talking about it yeah it's good it's kind of like my pose on tiktok it's like knowingly dad on TikTok. That's my thing. Yeah, yeah. You know, so you know.

I know I'm too old for this on TikTok. And then I feel like Hillary knew she was being corny on that. Yeah. That's up there, though. It is up there. I will say this is someone who took great relish in writing very cheesy sentences for Hillary Clinton, including George W. Bush and John McCain are two sides of the same coin.

It doesn't amount to a whole lot of change. Hey! Hey! All right, let's end. He genuinely likes that line because he talks about that all the time. It's good. All the time.

It's good. All right. Four out of five for me. I like it. I like that line. Thank you, John Legend. Thank you, John Legend. Next, last one, last one. Oh like it. I like that line. Thank you, John Legend. Thank you, John Legend. Last one.

Last one. 2016. Where do you got? You got something to read? Gonna bring Dan out here. Trump bad, Trump bad. It's fine. It's fine. We know what's going to happen next. Alright. Final clip. Final clip. 2016. DNC's fight song. Oh, shit. Ladies and gentlemen, my mother, my hero, and our next president, Hillary Clinton.

This is working on me too. That looks cool. I think it was good. I think it was fine. No cringe. No cringe. No cringe. Zero cringe. No cringe.

That's our game. I'm glad we had a nice range of... That's why there's a scale. We learned maybe we're pretty cringe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes everyone's cringe.

You either die here or you live long enough to be cringe. I did the Yes We Can video with Will.i.am. Yeah. Yeah. No, I remember that. Yes. And by the way, that only became cringe after the fact. It was at the time.

It worked at the time. It really worked. It worked. Sorry, I didn't write the change line. Oh. We'll get a speech off, an old-fashioned speech off over here. Oh, no. We're the ones we've been waiting for.

It doesn't mean anything. What does it even mean? Well, what? John Legend, thank you so much. We come back. We actually will be joined by the host of Dare We Say, Alicia Pasquale-Pena and Yasmeen Hamidi for another game. So hang on your hats.

End of segment. Go to commercial. And we're back. Welcome to the studio. The hosts of Cricket's Dare We Say podcast, along with Josie Tota, Alicia Pascal-Pena, and Yasmin Hamidi. Hello to you both. You've joined us because you are going to be pitted against my first wave millennial co-host and Dan.

And last wave Gen X co-host. Yeah, almost millennial co-host for a game we're calling Youngs vs. Slightly Less Youngs but still in the prime of their lives okay some classic ageism some other titles we considered

Dare We Grey oh boy I like that one also Y2K vs. Y2Slay here's how it works I'll be asking our Dare We Say host Why'd you slay? Here's how it works. I'll be asking our dare we say host trivia questions about iconic millennial touchstones. Tommy and John and Dan will be asked about Gen Z.

Are you ready? Oh, God. Here we go. Okay. Good luck, you guys. Okay. The best generation win. Yasmine, Alicia, here we go.

All right. Jack and Meg White, the band members in White Stripes were what? A, brother and sister. B, a divorce couple. C, a divorce couple who pretended to be siblings for reasons that both now feel obscure and malevolent. Or D, are actually the same person.

Not the same person. Can you repeat the question? No. Are you being serious? Absolutely not. Ask someone with dyslexia. All right, all right, all right, all right. Espérate.

I know there's songs. Can we discuss or no? Yeah, of course you can. There's like that Nation Army song. They're really great. Sure. Not too much. We'll have to cut it.

Okay, okay, okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Can we do B? I think they were... love. Not too much. We'll have to cut it. Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Okay. Okay. Would you B? I think they were. No, I feel like they were silent or silenced. You're being silenced by me.

I need an answer. B. Siblings? What was that one? No, they were. Divorcees? Divorcees. I'm sorry.

That was incorrect. All of it was? It was C. They were a divorced couple that pretended to be siblings. That's sick. That's really weird. Actually, by the way, I learned that today. I thought up until today, I lived my whole life thinking that they were siblings.

You thought they were siblings. They were a divorced couple pretending to be siblings? What a weird thing. I feel like that's against the law. No, I don't think it is. Not in Kentucky. In no way is it against the law. There's no way you can find a way to make it against the law. Oh, damn. Okay.

There's no way you can find a way to make it against the law. John, Dan, Tommy. All right. What did TikTok star Charlie D'Amelio get named after? Did I say that right? What? D'Amelio. What?

D'Amelio? D'Amelio. D'Amelio. Eat shit. What? I think it's so cool being young. Being old is something you want to be. It's a goal.

It's the only thing you make fun of somebody for a goal that they have. The only other option is death. That's fair. Anyway, what did TikTok star Charlie D'Amelio get named after her last year? A, a limited edition Dunkin' Donuts drink. B, nail polish. C, a barn owl at Connecticut's Beardsley Zoo. D, a newly discovered moth.

Okay, I think she's endorsed by by duncan donuts really well i'm i like duncan donuts okay sure but i well but i don't know i didn't really listen i feel like nail polish is the yeah yeah okay no i would have gone with the owl but go with duncan we're really are you guys sure are you sure it was the only the only one none of us thought Are you guys sure? Are you sure about that? You guys are acting like Gen X right now. Pick an answer. I'm going to give you guys a hint. Moth. It was the only one none of us thought. It's the one. The moth. It's the moth.

Moth. Incorrect. It was Dunkin' Donuts. Yes! We're playing dirty over here. We're sneaky. Sneaky fucking generation. That's me and Alicia.

If we did bad, you guys couldn't get the first one. You feel me? Okay. Tommy got it It's outwit outlast It's wit outplay outlast But now I feel bad Our Gen Z co-host is going to take the rest

Gaslight gatekeep girl boss for killing it Alright next up for our Gen Z crew Which is not a real episode of MTV's seminal reality TV show True Life Is it A. True Life I'm obsessed with my dog That's a real one B. True Lifeinal reality TV show, True Life? Is it A, True Life, I'm obsessed with my dog. No, that's a real one. B, True Life,

I'm a Staten Island girl. C, True Life, I hate my face. D, True Life, I'm horny in Miami. Ew. That one, that one. Or is it E, True Life, all the above? All the above, 110%. Wait, no, no, you're saying which isn't. No, which is not.

Wait, our education system. That's a good point. That's a which isn't. No, which is not. Wait. Our education system. That's a good point. That's a really good point. Ray is a good point. Which is not all of the above. Do it on the fly. You got it. It was all the above.

Yeah, all of those are definitely episodes. True Life was brazy. Here we go. MTV. Like lawyers over here. That was really... Your honor. You have no idea.

Your honor. You have no idea what it was like. Really? You have no idea what it was like. All right. Before Ridiculous. It was good for a while. Jersey Shore, right?

To my... To my... To my... All right. John, Tommy, Dan. Who is Jack Harlow? Oh. He's a rapper. He's a rapper. You got it. alright John, Tommy, Dan who is Jack Harlow? oh he's a rapper

he's a rapper he's a rapper you got it he's also set to make his acting debut in a remake of White Men Can't Jump even after seeing

what happened to Harry Styles yeah he's brave apparently reviewing it Jack is gonna be an actor now? I'm learning it from this card Jack if you're listening to this you should ask him

the original cast of White Men Can't Jump who is the original cast of White Men Can't Jump? I don't even know that movie. No, the one that was Blade.

Yep. Yep. He's a king. Yes. Somebody give me a name. Wesley Simps. I knew that.

Yep. And the other one. You're not. Oh my God. Thank you. Thank you so much. But see, I've seen

it. I've seen it because it's a classic. Ken Jennings doesn't tolerate this shit. Thank you. I love you. You get a it because it's a classic. Ken Jennings doesn't tolerate this shit. Thank you. I love you. You get a hug.

All right. Okay. Next up. Whom did Britney Spears famously kiss at the 2003 VMA? Oh, Madonna. Yeah. That's correct. Who then kissed Christina Aguilera seconds later.

Yeah. So by the transitive property also. And Madonna's been kissing Tokisha. Do you know who that is? No. Sorry. Dominican rapper thank you next question for

nothing will happen and I'll be like good job alright John Dan Tommy please explain

how the Be Real app works you just have to explain it we're just going to judge it who's on Be Real don't tell them don't everyone be cool how does it work

you take a picture and it posts automatically and you can't do anything about it You're just it's just it's out there because it's supposed to like you have a ton you can do about you fucking stage that shit Right right right, but anything else about it anything else about it. Can you do it once a day, right? Do we get there? I'm gonna say incorrect. I mean it was clear what you think was close enough. It was good was good You know good all right all All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. All right. No. What's wrong?

No. Fill us in. You think it was right or wrong? I think it was wrong. I'm sorry. So why, tell us what it is. So Be Real is an amazing app,

right? Okay. They don't pay for this. They're fine. they're not, okay. It's another terrible thing we're doing to ourselves.

Yeah, it's dumb. Unless you want to sponsor us, Be Real, thank you. It's the fact, it's a, it's an app that comes,

it gives you notification once a day and it tells you. At a random point. Random point that you don't know when it's going to be. And they also do it. It takes a picture from the front and the back. At the same time. And you can retake it, but it also shows the people how many times you retook the photo.

And it shows whoever screenshots. At the same time. Everyone that is doing Be Real, it's the exact same moment. So in New York right now, Be Real will happen happen and then it looks like a fucking Black Mirror episode. Yeah, it is a Black Mirror. All right, now. All right. So I feel like they got close enough.

Half. Half. I'll give back to the community. Let's give them a point. Now, over to you. Your question. Please explain the Y2K problem. Oh, oh, oh, oh.

Y'all were crazy and thought the world was going to end because it was going to be 0-0-0. Was that the whole thing? No, 2012. Damn. That's basically right. 2012? 2012.

The movie wasn't. Wait, wait, wait. Let me try again. So y'all thought that y'all's computers and stuff, you know, like the geriatric people, them, they thought like 2-0-0 wasn't going to work on like your phones and computers. My mom's not happy with you. Your mom's not happy with you. And y'all thought that like the geriatric people, them. They thought like 2-0-0 wasn't going to work on like your phones and computers. My mom's not happy with you.

Your mom's not happy with you. And y'all thought that like the world was going to explode and end because it was going to be year 200 or 2000. You cannot wait. That's what I would have said. You cannot say that's wrong. I would have given that answer. First answer was there.

Yeah, we were good. You got it. You got it. Thank you. I was fighting for my life. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right.

TikTok star and Instagram model Ava Louise. I don't even know who that is. You don't know. That one you don't know. Wow. So you're not quiet now. All right. Don't come for fee.

Rude. Went on Dr. Phil after going viral for doing what? A, successfully chugging a gallon of milk. B, choreographing sexy dances to Steely Dan songs. C, licking an airplane toilet seat in a coronavirus challenge video. What do you got, Tommy? I feel like I heard about someone licking a toilet seat. And I assume it was this person. So sure, see.

You got it. Yeah. You were so online. It was a video in March of 2020. Yeah. Brave time to fly. Ew. During COVID?

Next up. Yeah, exactly. Like anytime, but also like you took your mask off to make a twit. It was gross in 2019. It wasn't cool then. All right, next. it wasn't cool then alright next which of the following

was not which of the following was not a real early aughts reality show like the early like the 2000 early 2000s

okay got it we never came up with a good name for the 00s you said aughts and I said okay I know we didn't have a good name for it

we never cracked it we never cracked it and that wasn't it it's okay we're here which of the following was not a real early-aunts reality show. A, Mr. Personality, a short-lived dating show hosted by Monica Lewinsky.

No way. B, Are You Hot, a show where a panel of judges evaluated the sexiness of shirtless men and bikini-clad women with the help of a laser pointer. C, The Swan, a show where women got plastic surgery makeovers and then had to compete in a beauty pageant or D, one man's trash, a show where a bachelorette had to choose a date based solely on the trash found in her prospective suitor's cars.

I'm sorry. Or E, were they all real? I'm so sorry. What the hell were you guys thinking back then? I'm saying, I am telling you right now,

three of the four of those were real. No way. Yes. Yes. And we only made up one. I'll remind you, it's Mr. Personality,

Are You Hot, The Swan, and One Man's Trash. I think it's Mr. Personality because Miss Monica wouldn't do something. No way. She wouldn't. No way. I think it's gonna have to be. No, don't look at me like that, Jon. That's incorrect.

Monica Lewinsky had a dating show? Don't understand. How did they get her to do that? You have to understand how bad a time the 2000s were. Wait, y'all were on drugs, right? Everyone thought all the problems were solved and that people couldn't be sexist because James Bond could punch women. Like the rules were weird. Feminism.

Yeah. Punch women. It was a tough time. So America like obliterated this woman in the media and then gave her a dating show. Briefly. Yeah. Briefly. I didn't know that.

I remember. I didn't know that either. I would have said that. That would have been. And to everyone listening we have a pitch deck for one man's trash if anyone networks

are interested I feel like that's what The Bachelor is right now like what yeah which

yeah he knows I was just I'm just trying to just trying to be supportive yucking it up just trying to encourage I appreciate it

obviously everyone knows I don't watch The Bachelor. It's not a queer space. What? It's not. All right. Which hairstyle has Gen Z summarily canceled? A, the side part. B, the center part.

C, ponytail. Or D, bangs. I think side part. You got it. You got it. Alicia, with a side part right now? And also me. Yeah, me with a side part.

I'm going to... Let's do... All right, here we go. Which TV personality testified before the House Appropriations Committee on behalf of music education in 2002? A, Paris Hilton. B, Elmo.

C, Paula Abdul. Or D, Tyra Banks. Who did? Who did? It's either Tyra or Elmo. Can we actually make it... I thought that in my spirit? It's either Tyra or Elmo. Can we actually make an answer? I felt that in my spirit. It's either Tyra or Elmo.

Can you name this episode? It's either Tyra or Elmo. I need an answer. Tyra or Elmo. Or is it Abdul? No. Even though she's a dance icon and choreographer. I'm gonna go Elmo. Correct. Yeah.

Thank you so much. Correct. Yeah. Correct. Nice. Thank you so much. Sesame Street does good work. One more question for our 1980s boys. Which of the following... Dan got quiet. Yeah. Yep.

Yep. Yep. All right. Which of the following was not a real storyline on Riverdale? Oh, no. A, Jughead fakes its own death. B, Archie fights a bear. C, Veronica performs jailhouse rock for Archie outside his juvenile detention center.

D, everybody joins an organ harvesting cult. Or E, none of the above. They're all real. What was the drug they took called? Like yin- yang or some shit jingle jingle jangle jingle jangle

thank you thank you I know this from listening to Keep It I was like how do you know all this stuff I'm listening to Riverdale

you're like I watch Riverdale who's your best friend Gen Zer wait you should hang out with us you want to come on Dare We Say

if you guys want to hang out between like 6 and 8pm I would love to Tommy's an early to bed early to rise type You want to come on Dare We Say? If you guys want to hang out between 6 and 8pm, I would love to. Tommy's an early to bed, early to rise type. I was like, you got it. Really turn up hours there. What do you think, Gen Z-er? All of the above?

That's correct. It is all of the above. It's all of the above, which is none of the above. They're all real. It's the golden age of scripted television. Final question for Gen Z. This is for everything because we're tied I don't know you made that up I got excited

who or what I'll do it like this if you can tell me without the clues you win outright wow who or what was T9 what was T9 T What was T9? T9, it was something.

Let me tell you. I'll just give you some hints. I'm going to try to hit it. It is not a spray. Don't guess just yet. It is not a spray. I'll tell you this. Here's the thing.

It was something everybody used. It was absolutely terrible. And yet we all thought it was amazing. It was on our phones. It was how terrible. And yet we all thought it was amazing. It was on our phones. It was how we texted. It's the... Wait a damn minute. It's the thing...

T9? Is it like a program or something? No, isn't it like the thing that... Like a pager? No, no, no, no. That's psychic. No, no, no, no. It was...

I'll give you the hint. Is it A, a boy band? No, no. Already, no, no, no, no, no. It was. I'll give you the hint. Is it a boy band? No, no. Already gone beyond the text. Is it a C, a pre-smartphone predicting? Is it? It's this dumb thing from your phone. You got it.

It was basically, just so you know, when we first got cell phones, you could text, but you only had the numbers. And so you would type using the numbers, but it would help you by predicting what word was next. Oh, I had that on my old flip phone back in the day, back like 70 years ago. I didn't hate it. All right, Bob. Nobody needed to know that. My first phone had an antenna. Hold on.

Sorry. No, no, no, John. You can sit over here. You can sit over here. Can you just know? So just first of all, please introduce hi i'm cammy i'm alicia's birth mom and yaz's adoptive mom as of right now yeah nice and um you're saying that alicia knows about this technology called t9 this ancient this ancient technology so i'm at least you please be quiet i'm having a conversation with your mother this is so unfair you would never

have this power if she was you can just tell people be quiet? I'm having a conversation with your mother. This is so unfair. You would never have this power if she wasn't here. You can just tell people to be quiet all the time because you say it in Spanish as if that's better. She does! It's not. It's equally rude. It's just rude in another language. Sorry.

So sorry. And I taught you better than that. Wow. And she had a... This is work discrimination in her eyes. And she had a T9 phone. So in fifth grade, we gave her my mom's old cell phone. And she wouldn't know about it because she refused to use it.

She would leave it at the bottom of her book bag and say that she couldn't find it. It had an antenna. And that was so weird. And that's the way she got convinced us to buy her another type of phone. No, I saved up for my iPhone with modeling money. She refused to use it. Kami, she gaslit you. We can talk about it.

Absolutely. That's her thing. On the next episode of Dare We Say, we just saw Alicia. Oh, I'm sorry. We're all out of time. We're all out of time. John, how dare you? You can never.

Listen, listen. You brought your mom to the show. What do you think is going to happen? Yeah, what are you going to expect? True. Gen Z, Dare We Say, you've won. You've won the game. Alicia, Yasmeen, thank you so much for being here.

That's our show. Thank you to Elizabeth Warren, John Legend, Sam Sanders, Yasmeen Hamidi, Alicia Pascual-Pena, and a big thank you to SiriusXM for hosting us. Everyone from Vote Save America who came to the crowd. And check us out on Crooked Radio every weekend through the election on SiriusXM Satellite Radio. Thanks, everyone.

Hot Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein. Our producers are Olivia Martinez and Hayley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine

Howe for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crooked media.