Pod Save America - "Mugshots and Milk Shots." (Live from Wisconsin!)

Episode Date: March 20, 2023

Mandela Barnes and Wisconsin Democratic Party Chair Ben Wikler join Jon, Jon, and guest host Erin Ryan live in Wisconsin! Donald Trump prepares for a possible indictment this week with a few more potentially on the way. Judge Janet Protasiewicz stops by to discuss her campaign to be Wisconsin’s next state Supreme Court Justice. Plus, Lovett quizzes Jon, Erin, Mandela, and Ben on all things Wisconsin in a game called Truth or Dairy. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

What's up, Madison? What's up, Madison? Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Erin Ryan. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Mandela Barnes. Honestly, that sucks. I'm Ben Wickler.

We have a fantastic show for you tonight. Wisconsin's next state Supreme Court Justice, Janet Protusewitz, is here. And we are so lucky to have a crew of Wisconsin experts to take us through all the latest political news. Your 45th Lieutenant Governor. Your Democratic Party Chair. And Wisconsin native Aaron Ryan, host of Hysteria. All right, so we are going to dig into the Supreme Court race in a bit. But first, we have some other breaking legal news to cover. Former President Trump saying this morning that he will be arrested on Tuesday. Trump said that

on Truth Social. He said, in fact, quote, the far and away leading Republican candidate and former president of the United States of America will be arrested next week. Protests take our nation back. Yeah, that's right. All right, so the New York Times is reporting that people close to Trump merely told him that their best guess is Tuesday.

So he may have jumped the gun a little bit on that. But NBC has also reported that the New York law enforcement agencies have been making security preparations for a possible indictment this week. The Manhattan grand jury is expected to bring felony charges against Trump for making hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and Kerry McDougal, but there may be more indictments coming. A federal judge in D.C. just ordered Trump's attorney to testify in the classified documents case after prosecutors successfully argued that the attorney's legal advice was used to further a crime. And any day now, Fulton County District

Attorney Fannie Willis could charge Trump for trying to overturn the election in Georgia. So a lot on his plate. A lot on his plate. Aaron, is this it? Just the hope in your applause. Is this it? Did we finally get him? Did we get him?

Did we get him? What was your reaction to the news this morning? Okay, so a few things. First of all, I would love nothing more than to see Donald Trump on a perp walk. That is what I've been hoping for for like eight years now. Eight years. Almost eight years ago, he rolled down that stupid escalator. But I think that there's something narratively fulfilling about the first, his first

like arrest being over sexual misconduct. I think some of the first people, thank you, thank you, I didn't do any of it. You did it. Give yourself a round of applause. I pointed it out. I think that a lot of the people that were the most alarmed on election night 2016 were women. Because we all knew he was a piece of shit. Like it wasn't just because he had bad ideas and it wasn't just because he was racist. There was a long list of sexual misconduct allegations, credible ones, like more than two dozen that had been made before the election even happened. like more than two dozen that had been made before the election even happened. So there's something narratively fulfilling about the I told you so kind of coming out in the wash in a way. Yeah. At the same time, I cannot think of any other human being that would treat a perp walk like a campaign event besides Donald Trump.

And so there's a part of me that's like, does he want this? Does he need this? Is this, there's going to be a lot of cameras, like, you know, him getting arrested, people watching for him. He loves attention. There's no such thing as bad attention for him. So on one hand, I'm like, yay, get him. On the other hand, I'm like, I don't want anything good to happen for him from his perspective ever. So mixed feelings, John. I mean, the Times reported that he was terrified watching Allen Weisselberg, his former CFO, who was found guilty of a bunch of crimes, doing the perp walk, and he's trying to avoid that,

but they're like, he could be fingerprinted like any other criminal. Tiny little fingerprints. Getting ketchup all over the stamp. Lovett, what did you think about the news? First of all, shame on all of you. If we're going to dismantle the carceral state, we can't be happy when it applies to someone

we don't like. People didn't know what to do with that. I know. It got what it deserved uh so i look the it is sort of it does feel like this kind of poetic thing you know this is the first this this is sort of like in a lot of ways the kind of the first crime on his road to the presidency right this was what he did before he was elected um and it is serious uh and people do go to jail for being involved in this crime because michael cohen went to jail for being involved in this crime that being said every

every examination by legal experts and we'll leave it to the strict scrutinizers to actually do the legal analysis are always like it's a novel legal theory it's a state law based on a federal crime based on a state law i'm all for it we got capone on taxes but i want to know what's happening in fulton county that's that's that's like that's where that's where like i'm interested in the insurrection i want to see that's where that's where he did his uh that's where he did his finest work that's his thunder road um you're waiting for the sequel yeah i'm look yeah this is yeah this is this is the uh this is the kind of uh dark and gritty alien i'm waiting for aliens you know what i'm saying a lot more action a lot more exciting sure sure sure okay um

mandela um a number of news outlets have responsibly pointed out that Trump's demand that his supporters protest echoes his pre-January 6th tweets will be wild, we all know. He's also planning his first campaign rally next Saturday in Waco, Texas, and this is the 30th anniversary of the bloody standoff between federal agents and a cult leader. Just very on the nose. How do you think, like, President Biden and other leaders should respond to what has already become Trump's, you know, darkest and most vengeful campaign yet? The president should first issue a Kool-Aid warning and wake up. But in all seriousness, I'll tell you, the president should just, you know, President Biden should let the process play out, right? We can't mix politics and legal proceedings. Like, Donald Trump obviously broke

the law, right? Like, this is a person who needs to be pinned for his crimes. And if we tie politics into it, it gives them all the ammunition that they need. If President Biden decides to chime in, that makes it so much weaker of a case. Now, I will say that this is, I feel like we've been through this before. I don't want this to be Groundhog Day. You know, it feels like every time we got him on this, we got him on that, we got him on this. And coming around to this moment in Waco, it couldn't be, you know, more apparent what he's trying to do. Like they were so close to stopping the certification of President Biden's election on January 6th. And I feel like they may have seen the things that went wrong and why they weren't successful. And these people will stop at nothing to stop a person that they see as sort of savior for them from going to jail.

And people are willing to die for Donald Trump. They already proved that. So it's a little bit scary when, you know, you put it all into context. And the last thing we need is more bloodshed, more violence. This country is already as divided as we've been since the Civil War. But Donald Trump has to pay the price. And, you know, we had Trump Vodka back in the day. Maybe they can buy 19 crimes.

The New York Times had a great quote from Ali Alexander, who was the guy who organized the Stop the Steal rally. He put out a telegram message, and he said, Previously, I had said if Trump was arrested and under the threat of a perp walk, 100,000 patriots should shut down all routes to Mar-a-Lago. But now I'm retired. I'll pray for him, though. It just makes you wonder if the energy is there.

So, Ben, some of our country's shrewdest political prognosticators like Elon Musk, Marjorie Taylor Greene, have already predicted that if Trump is arrested, he'll be reelected in a landslide victory. Do you think seeing Trump in handcuffs is the thing that will persuade a lot of undecided voters here in Wisconsin to get off the fence and support him? So there's this whole draft Rob Blagojevich movement that's out there that just, once they saw that guy arrested and sent to jail,

it put a halo over his head. That could happen. I'm less worried about undecided voters saying, oh my God, that guy is so bad. I just love him. I'm more worried about Trump's goal to make his supporters feel like they're being persecuted because his whole thing is giving people a sense of a victim complex that they can then fight back against. And I think for the rest of us, our job is to channel all the feelings we might have about seeing Trump sent to prison, getting accountability, channel that into political organizing so that if there is a rise in turnout, for example, this spring, if they try to do that, we need to channel that into more energy and taking that energy actually into getting voters registered, getting voters to the ballot box, turning this

not into people yelling in the streets, but turning it into a tidal wave of democracy. Yeah. And to that point, I mean, look, it is Groundhog Day. We've been through a version of this. It was the insurrection. And what happened, a lot of people got hurt. Our democracy was tarnished. There was a lot of chaos and violence and mayhem. And it was extremely unpopular. it didn't work. And you know, Joe Biden has had a lot of opportunities as president to hit a ball off a tee. I believe it's called tee ball. Uh, I don't know your culture. Um, it's like, it's like golf, but much higher up. But, uh, president Biden will be able to say, I don't get involved in investigations and I want to watch everybody to be peaceful. I want everybody to respect the process. There's

no need for anybody to do the wrong thing. And there's been a couple of moments like that, that Donald Trump and some Republicans like him have created. There was that moment when he was, you know, you have a bunch of Republican nonsense on one side and then you have Joe Biden standing next to Mitch McConnell paving a bridge in Kentucky, right? And so Joe Biden has had these opportunities to kind of model the kind of leadership that is actually extremely popular, because only adult right-wing internet minds think that normal people who don't pay attention as much as they do find it thrilling to see a president in handcuffs. Nobody wants that. Nobody thinks that's cool.

There would be nothing more delicious than having Trump get arrested and fingerprinted and sent to jail and everyone treating it like he had just, you know, I don't know, grabbed money out of a bank teller. And it was no bigger deal than that. And the rest of the country is like, OK, bye. And then moves along and then re-elects President Biden in a wave in 2024 and it just becomes a footnote in history and we never think about that guy again for the rest of our lives. Well, that's why I sort of want

him to try to escape. Let's air up the drama a little bit more. Oh my, that would be amazing it would be incredible here's why Donald Trump should escape there are dozens dozens of countries

in the world that don't have extradition treaties with the US many of them Donald Trump kind of called shithole countries

but he could you know the UAE is one of them like there's a few countries that Donald Trump could go to

and just live just be there forever. I kind of wonder if, like, him and Bolsonaro are just going to trade places permanently. You stay in Florida. I'm going to Rio. Meanwhile, this ends with Trump halfway out of a vent. So here's a question, because I can hear some Democrats ask this question. Like, when Hillary Clinton was under investigation in 2016, Donald Trump and other Republicans talked about it every single day.

It was the entire election. So Donald Trump is likely to be indicted for the Stormy Daniels hush money payments, possibly for Georgia, possibly for the classified documents case. How should Democratic candidates handle that on the campaign trail should it i mean obviously the right thing to do is say yeah we're gonna let the legal process play out i think that's obvious for sure but do you say no one is above the law nobody's above the law talk about law and order respect for the law and this is something republicans try to use all the time they They respect law enforcement, respect the law. Well, your top dude is shown a complete disregard for the law.

He will continue to do so. So let's call him on it. Let's call him to task. And Republican politicians should be held to account. And the media has to do a job also at holding them to account for law and order if they're going to support Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah. I also, law and order if they're going to support Donald Trump. Yeah. Yeah. I also, we, there is a Republican primary going on and I think you can boil down what DeSantis is saying is, with Trump, you get extremism and chaos. With me, I'll just give you the extremism. And that's a case that he's, in some level, that's the case he's making. And so I think it's very different to be talking about an indicted Donald Trump when he's the nominee and we're weeks away from the election. Right now, I think we have a bigger task, which is to paint Republicans as a party of extremism and chaos, and Donald Trump as its leader and great exemplar about the kind of mess that they create,

the chaos all around them, and what they're willing to do to hold on to power. But we have to paint all of them with this brush because they to do to hold on to power. But we have to paint all of them with this brush because they are all responsible for it. And we can't, because if we start talking a little bit too much about Donald Trump and Donald Trump's crimes, we don't, you know, we will end up with a situation where all of a sudden they've rallied behind someone else because I don't know that even Republicans are as enamored of this idea of an indicted presidential candidate as some of their, you know, pundits say. So we have to be a little bit cautious.

The Speaker of the House of Representatives today, based on rumors that Donald Trump might be indicted, threatened an investigation of the Manhattan district attorney. Talk about like letting the process play out. So like that's where Kevin McCarthy is. Mike Pence of hang Mike Pence fame, who like did this big brave thing, you know, a couple at the gridiron dinner when there were no cameras saying that, you know, what Donald Trump did on January 6th was awful. He said today, like he took Trump's side in this and was like, this is a horrible investigation. DeSantis has not said anything yet. Oh, he's feeding them info. He's feeding them

FBI info. He's hoping this whole thing goes to hell. What would you guys do if you were Ron DeSantis' campaign or Ron DeSantis? Would you just say this is a travesty of justice or would you use this as an opportunity to sort of needle Donald Trump a little bit? I think Ron DeSantis needs to get in front

of the story by performing a citizen's arrest, personally. Or he could have a newly deputized Mickey Mouse make the arrest. Because they work for Ron. Officer Mouse is going to escort you, Mr. President. Walks right into Mar-a-Lago. Throw him wherever they put the Beagle Boys. Beagle Boys?

Beagle Boys? It's a DuckTales thing. Shut up. Look, I think DeSantis has gamed a lot of this out in that he has a kind of argument that he's making obliquely about, you know, I'm precise'm precise i'm on message with me you always know that i'm gonna i i'm i don't dither i don't delay or wait too long or

vacillate or go back and forth that basically like i am uh i am i am trump without the chaos um and i assume he will be making that argument but that you know when the when the fbi rated mar-a-lago desantis came out and did the whole like this is an outrage blah blah if his argument is i'm trump without the baggage i'm trump without the chaos this is the baggage the fact that he's going to be running for president of venture indictments if desantis comes out and by the time people listen to this podcast he'll probably have said something but um if desantis comes out and is just like this is outrageous whatever he sort of gives away his whole fucking argument i think that he can i think that he can

get a what there's no reason for him not to take a bunch of shot at democrats democratic prosecutors while still giving him the space to say we need to be able to kind of run a campaign we just need to get past some of these distractions of the past, that kind of thing. OK, but I think just to make something crystal clear, like the two worst United States Supreme Court justices were both appointed by Bush's like they weren't appointed by Donald Trump, Alito and Thomas. Those are obviously those are the two worst. They were they were appointed by like nice Republicans. They were appointed by good, polite Republicans.

One's a fucking painter now. One of them is like, oh, this is a nice war criminal painting landscapes. The fact of the matter is, regardless of how nice or unchaotic or polite or orderly a Republican gets elected to an important office, chaos ensues eventually. We're seeing chaos ensuing now because of judicial appointments made 10, 20, 30 years ago. And I think that's a really important thing for Democrats to keep hitting when they're messaging for this election and all upcoming elections. Yeah. And I'll just add,

George W. Bush's paintings have a surprising amount of pathos. Sorry about the war crimes? No, I'm just... Oh, I need candy at a funeral. But even to your point about DeSantis, honestly, his opinion isn't going to change the outcome. So he can take that route. He can take the same tack and it will not change what happens with Donald Trump being charged or not. Right. So I kind of agree. And DeSantis, this whole thing is just culture war all the time.

And it's not just that he doesn't have Trump's charm such as it is. It's also that when Trump ran alongside the like toxic stew of racism and misogyny, he also was talking about trade and manufacturing jobs and bullying CEOs who wanted to move their jobs overseas. DeSantis doesn't do any of that. He doesn't go to voters' actual lives in any sense. And it feels like if it's just Ron DeSantis kind of flopping around on the national stage,

most people are like, why is he doing that? That's terrible. It's like opportunity costs. Like, what isn't he doing? Well, he's doing all this dumb bullshit. He's not helping reduce the cost of housing for Floridians. He's not helping be more climate resilient. He's not doing the things that people actually need him to do.

He's like invading Disney World. Like, that's not useful. That's not governing. That's just doing something that's loud and big, and it's not actually helping people. And he's not even doing the things that we'd want him to do, like guarantee us at least three or four seasons of Andor. Use your power, Governor. There's also a huge blob of seaweed headed towards Florida, but that's another conversation for another day. On that note. All right. We'll be back shortly with more news. And we're back.

We're on the road with a pod. Save America tour show. We're like the Rolling Stones, but with fewer sequined blazers, and somehow our knees are worse. Sorry. But like the Stones, we're going to give the people what they want. Now it's time for OK Stop.

we're going to give the people what they want. Now it's time for OK Stop. Republican Governor Kristi Noem on Fox News addressed the greatest threat we face as a country, climate change, specifically the changing climate of social media, TikTok. Let's roll the clip. And what about that? What about that app? What do you want to say to parents who may have their kids have TikTok on their phone? You've banned it on government devices, but how much of a threat is it to ordinary American families? OK, stop. Governor, should parents be smashing their children's phones with a sledgehammer? If your child has borrowed your phone, should you smash your own phone in front of your children?

if your child has borrowed your phone, should you smash your own phone in front of your children? As a child of a mother who is wildly addicted to TikTok, it's the other way around. Like, if a mother's eye doctor had to, like, talk to her about this. It's pretty wild, too, because, like, you look at TikTok and the app that's, you know,

made famous because of all these dances, and, like, the most adamant, the people who are the most adamantly opposed to her are people with least amount of rhythm how much of a threat is it on a scale of one to drag queen story hour how worried should we be it should have been a scale of 1 to 16, 19. That's good. That's good. That's good. That's it. I'll do my next joke later.

Let's keep going. Sit your kids down and have a conversation. Tell them to knock it off. Okay, stop. Like the conversation you had with your husband after he kept texting that woman he slept with after your shared annual marital reprieve wow knock it off

if you try to tell your kid to knock it off on tiktok it is inevitably going to become a viral tiktok moment yeah yeah your kid's taping you your kid's's Claudia Conway-ing you and is on their way to becoming a viral celebrity. Yeah, tell them to knock it off. That always works. Kids are like, my parents don't like it. That's why I'm going to stop. That's the gist of every breakfast cereal commercial. Parents hate it, so I don't eat it.

It's the opposite. Let's keep going. They slept in their beds last night, safe and secure, because of sacrifices that were made for this country. And that to respect that, they should not allow our enemies to come right into their homes and to manipulate their thoughts and their minds and how they feel about the United States of America. Okay, stop. Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what short-form video sharing apps you can delete for your country. It's just so funny that, like, you hear someone say this and you open TikTok

and it's a person playing guitar to a funny dog bark. I mean, it's good advice because like when I talk to Charlie, you know, I do talk to him about our country's enemies and how he should be thankful for the sacrifice. He's two and a half. Two and a half. Yeah. He should be thankful for the sacrifices made

and he shouldn't allow mind control. It works. It works. When you ride with TikTok, you ride with Osama. He's talking about manipulation on Fox News of all places. That's our job. We lose this country. Where do we go?

Where do they go? What's a better opportunity for the American dream than right here? Okay, stop. Now, in fairness, the American dream, it does work best here. It's like fish tacos. They don't work to go. The American dream. You know what I'm saying?

The American dream is dine in. Has she anticipated that they might actually have TikTok in other countries? Yeah. Because that seems like another problem with her thesis. That's like the whole problem that she is suggesting TikTok has is it's from another country. Oh, that's a good point. But what if the American dream decides that there's so much TikTok in America, it needs to leave? And then finds out there's TikTok in other countries.

Oh, my God. I'm just worried for her. That's my concern. Well, I just want to say that it's all fun and games. But first, your boys and girls are watching a hot, soft-spoken Canadian teach them how to scallop potatoes. What? Next thing you know, he. Teach them how to scallop potatoes. What? Next thing you know, he's telling them how to kill their parents.

That's how it starts. Is your algorithm not hot guys making different kinds of starches? Because mine's math videos and hot guys cooking. So I think we've got to get this thing out of here. I had a bear dancing to Pony thing out of here. I had a, I had a bear dancing to pony by genuine today.

Yeah, I got that too. That's cool. And a hot guy making grilled cheese. And that's okay. Stop. All right. Uh,

let's talk about America's most important election of 2023 the april 4th race that could give liberals control of the wisconsin supreme court for the first time in 15 years years. MAGA favorite Dan Kelly is running against progressive judge Janet Lovett. Protosiewicz. He got it. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing. Anyone can say Judge Janet, but it takes a Protosiewicz. I want to know that I stole that from Ben Wickler and I've been stealing it all day he stole he stole it from Ben and then he fucked it up at three different canvas events

before he finally stuck the landing anyone can say judge Janet but a pro to say what's it takes a pro to say there we see that it's ben it ben did it anyway this is a contest that will determine the fate of abortion access gerrymandering and democracy itself for this state one of the most important swing states in the country um and because the stakes are so high and the state is so evenly divided it has already become the most expensive judicial race in American history. Mandela, I know there are people listening who've heard that Wisconsin is a badly gerrymandered state, but I'm not sure everyone understands how you basically have one party rule here, despite the fact that we have a Democratic governor. Can you talk about what it was like governing for Democrats when you were lieutenant governor and how that might change if Judge Podosewicz wins? Yeah, I'll tell you,

it was very frustrating. Like even in this room, like think about all the things that are important to everybody here, you know, raising the minimum wage, you know, legal marijuana, right? Like all these things that people have been asking for. When we first took office, it was frustrating on many fronts. It was frustrating because we couldn't get our agenda through like we wanted to. We didn't have the veto, thank God for that. But I will say that it was also frustrating when people come up to me, he's not legal here yet? We won an election, but the legislature would have to pass it. Why haven't you expanded Badger Care? And it's like, well, it's because the legislature did it every time, every single time. So as purple as Wisconsin is, as close as our elections are, legislatures not reflect that, you know, overwhelming Republican majorities in both houses that they did not earn and the will of the people is not being respected. You know, our agenda was our agenda, but it is what the people have been asking for. It's what the people, many, I would say what people have been dying for. The reality is 90,000, 100,000 or so more people that could have been covered through Badger Care, through expansion of the Affordable Care Act, people's lives are actually in jeopardy.

You know, and when it comes to meeting the needs, it does not happen with this legislature. So it is incredibly difficult. It is heartbreaking when you hear the stories of people who just go without health insurance, racked up unimaginable debt. You know, people who are still being incarcerated for simple possession, like all these things that are happening right now today because the legislature just says no to everything. They refuse to act in good faith. Before we took office, they went in a special session to take away the authority of the governor and from the attorney general. So Wisconsin could be a much different place, right? That's, again, why April 4th is so important, because if we flip one seat on the Supreme Court abortion ban is well within the realm of possibility and fair maps for everything else we want you know yeah so aaron you know mendela just mentioned that law the 1849 law that, you know, makes abortion illegal.

Republicans in the legislature just introduced a bill that would create rape and incest exceptions that's already received bipartisan opposition, including a veto threat from Governor Evers. What does that tell you that they introduced that bill about both the politics of abortion in the state and why the issue is so tied to this race? of abortion in the state and why the issue is so tied to this race? Well, I think that those exceptions that people in red states who consider themselves compassionate are trying to introduce actually expose the dead end of their viewpoint, right? So is a zygote a full human being with rights that deserve to be more important than the rights of the female body that it inhabits that it needs to stay alive? Or isn't it? Because if it is, then there should be no exceptions under any circumstances. But if it isn't, then it doesn't really matter how the conception, it doesn't make any fucking sense. Here's the truth. Here's the truth.

the truth. Here is the truth. The truth of the matter is that more than 50% of Wisconsin voters believe in the right to abortion. They believe that Wisconsin residents have a right to abortion without interference from their government. And the action of the state government and this 1849 ban do not reflect the will of the people or the beliefs of the people and honestly it's it's very creepy that so many people who cannot have children that they grow in their bodies are trying to make laws governing what those of us who can must do it is so fucked up it is it it doesn't matter thank you the the fact of the matter is this proposed exception that is receiving bipartisan opposition is a betrayal of the fact that the Republican viewpoint is not truly sincere. It's just oppressive. And I think what's really, really important for the future of Wisconsin

is for people who are on the right side of this to remind people that a vote for any Republican, for any office, any office, is a vote to have government interfere with choices that you get to make about your body. That's it. That's it. Obviously, a lot of implications for the state of wisconsin in this race this election also has national implications ben um you had a fairly terrifying tweet thread about what control of the court could mean for 2024 can you uh walk us through that sadly yes so in Wisconsin, we very painfully remember 2020 when there were the 60 plus Trump cases to try to attack the election results. The one case that got the furthest was the case that reached Wisconsin State Supreme Court. And three of the seven justices voted to take up Trump's case to throw out like a quarter million ballots, which would have overturned the 2020 election. The one who didn't support Trump's case, part of his argument against it was Trump waited until after the election to object to the votes that were cast. So let's go

to 2024. Just to be clear, if Dan Kelly had been on the court in 2020, there would have been four votes to overturn the election and the election would have been overturned. We beat him that spring, and he didn't get to do that. He wants to get on the court now. Trump endorsed him in 2020. I'm sure he would love Dan Kelly to be on the court in 2024. So let's say we're in 2024. We're getting close to Election Day.

If you look at the Electoral College map, Michigan's looking pretty blue right now. Good work, Michigan. Yeah. Pennsylvania is looking pretty blue right now. Good work, Pennsylvania. That means that the only state that gets Trump to 270 electoral college votes, or God help us, DeSantis, it's Wisconsin. This is the state they have to win. That's why they put their national convention here. That's why they put their first presidential primary debate here. That's why they put their next Republican National Committee meeting here. So the whole country is dependent on what happens here in 2024. It's a few weeks before the election, and suddenly, Republicans file a whole bunch of lawsuits objecting to ways they know Democrats are voting.

I don't know which group of Democrats they're targeting. Maybe it's black voters. Maybe it's student voters. Maybe they have a list of people that they don't want to vote. It's black voters. It's probably black voters. Maybe it's a combo. They could do a combo. They put these lawsuits in place. The state Supreme Court, this is if Dan Kelly wins, with a 4-3 majority, the state Supreme Court takes up their lawsuits. Election night comes. It's looking close. As happened in 2020, Trump gets an early lead because they haven't counted a lot of the absentee ballots yet. And then suddenly, after some weird sounding claimed irregularities that Republican activists put in, a fourth re-vote of the state Supreme Court stops the count. And the entire country is in limbo.

And record scratch, freeze frame, you think to yourself, in 2023, I had a chance to stop this guy from getting on the Supreme Court and casting that deciding vote. This is our only chance to stop Dan Kelly from getting on the state Supreme Court and throwing 2024. That is scary. I'm like, I want to run out of the theater. Yeah, that's scary. That's scary. Mandela, Judge Protusewicz has so far outspent Dan Kelly's campaign, but Kelly just recently said that the cavalry is on its way.

Um, you just ran a Senate race that was decided by about a point where you were considerably outspent towards the end. For people who aren't familiar with the inner workings of a campaign, can you talk tactically about like how and why that becomes so difficult when you're facing an opponent that's spending so much money? Yeah, absolutely. And I'll say that the Calvary has always been there for Dan Kelly. It's how he got through the primary. One donor, an out-of-state donor at that, spent more than every person in Wisconsin in this primary. So the outside spending has been there. It's going to continue to be there. And it also gives Republican candidates like Dan Kelly an opportunity to not

spend time on the phones and go out there and just talk whatever crap they want to talk all across the state. It frees them up of the responsibility of having to, you know, fulfill campaign responsibilities. Now, with that being said, I'm really incredibly proud of the job that Judge Janet Protusewitz is doing. I was spending, you know, Dan Kelly's campaign proper. It is a great position to be in. Huge shout out to Ben, too, that's like, you know, helped build just a wonderful. Just a really significant, substantial, you know, financial apparatus that we didn't have before. Certainly was helpful to me.

I know a lot of y'all got my text messages. So just really thankful for what you've been doing. But it gives us a chance to make sure that our message is communicated, right? Like you see the ads on YouTube, Hulu, broadcast television, cable. You see them everywhere. But the reality is we cannot afford to continue to be out communicated on any medium. Because when we're thinking about these undecided voters, like so many people take exactly what they see in those

ads, in those commercials as law, right? The people who aren't in this crowd right now, the people who aren't as plugged in as we are, the majority of people aren't. And if we aren't getting our information out about Janet, then it's going to be a world of trouble. So, you know, we have to do everything we can to not just match them, but to outgun them. And we're finally getting to a place where it's happening. And if they're saying the cavalry is coming, they mean it. And we need to respond in kind. Yeah.

They mean it. And we need to respond in kind. Yeah. So, Ben, Dan Kelly lost his 2020 race by 10 points. In the primary, we just had 11 points. All right. Justice Karofsky knows what she's talking about. Someone who remembers the number for some reason.

That's good. Good correction. In the primary that we just had a couple of weeks ago, I think the combined liberal candidates were 54% and the combined conservative candidates were 46%. So all of this seems like good news, but I've known you long enough to know that you are not sleeping at night even knowing all of that. So what is keeping you up at night about this race in the final weeks?

So the thing keeping me up at night right now is the year 2019. In 2019, I was running for state party chair that spring. And a lot of folks, probably a lot of folks here volunteered to try to help make sure we could win the Supreme Court race in 2019. I heard that. Whoop. Thank you. In that race, the progressive candidate was up significantly in the internal polling that both sides were seeing. And some conservatives had walked away from the conservative candidate. But in the final week, a super PAC funded by Leonard Leo, the guy behind the Federalist Society, who is sitting on about a billion and a half dollars

that a conservative donor gave him, that super PAC flooded the state. And what they did was spike Republican turnout. Republican Trump voters who don't normally vote in spring elections surged out. They used a ton of messaging to make them feel like they were being victimized. And we wound up losing that race by 5,981 votes. That's less than one vote per precinct across the state. So we go into the home stretch the wind is at our backs i mean we are outspending the the other side the other side has more independent expenditures but because scott walker actually changed the law the state party for state candidates i wish it was true for federal candidates like senate candidates the state party is allowed to provide unlimited support to our candidate. The candidate is doing an amazing job. Candidates get cheaper TV ads than independent groups. So even when we're being outspent,

we are out communicating them right now. But yeah, I mean, it's good. It's really good. It's extraordinary. And everyone who has donated so far, I can't thank you enough. But if they come in with a kind of explosion of, of, you know, not just misinformation and attack ads, but, but stuff to goose Republican turnout through the roof, we need to counter it by organizing ourselves even bigger. And that is why no matter how great things look,

no matter how much everyone, you know, says they're voting for Janet, they'd never vote for Dan Kelly. This is the time to volunteer, which by the way, go to wisdoms.org slash help. And you which, by the way, go to wistems.org slash help, and you can help.

Thank you. To knock doors, to cancel all your plans, cancel your dentist, delay your dentist appointment, so you can knock on doors. If you're anywhere in the country, you can get on the phones. There are hundreds of thousands of progressive Democratic voters

who've never voted in a spring election, and if you call them, they will vote, and if who've never voted in a spring election. And if you call them, they will vote. And if they vote, we will win this election. This is the time to donate. You can go to wisdems.org, just the whole website, and donate at any moment. We're having a Greece cast reunion with a cast of Greece. Nice.

Very appropriate for some reason. It's very exciting. That's on the 26th. Anyone who donates even a dollar or volunteers between now and the 26th of March can get into that for free. So go to wisdoms.org slash Greece. And I say all this because this is the kind of race where a podcast audience or one auditorium full of people who make it their job to spend every second they can finding every voter they can, they can win this election and save democracy in Wisconsin.

And if you save democracy in Wisconsin, you save it for the entire country. This is the moment. All right. When we come back, we will have Judge Janet Protasiewicz. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Judge Janet Protaswicz. Thank you so much.

Wow, what a group. Thank you. Alright. Judge Janet. Judge Janet. I like that. What's your judicial philosophy, and how does it differ from your opponents? Well, first of all, I'd like to say hello to everyone who came out here tonight. I am absolutely delighted and honored to be here. So let's talk a little bit about judicial philosophy. What is that? That's treating everybody fairly.

That's treating everybody with respect. That's being independent. That's not being an extremist. That's bringing common sense back to our Supreme Court, right? Thank you. My opponent, Dan Kelly, is the opposite of that. The 100% opposite. He has predetermined outcomes.

That's what he does. He's been bought by the Republican Party of the state of Wisconsin. I tell people, he's not a conservative. He's an extremist. We know exactly what he's going to do. We know exactly what he's going to do on every case. We know exactly what he's going to do on every case that's important to us. He is extremely dangerous. He is dangerous for the people in this state. Okay. So right now, right now, as we've discussed on this stage, legislative districts in the state of Wisconsin are so gerrymandered that it's really hard to get anything done. In a lot of cases, the best hope that Democrats have is to just elect a governor that will veto all of their crazy laws. laws. What would your election to the Supreme Court do to help unjam what's jammed up in Wisconsin state politics? All right, great question. Absolutely great question. You know, we had a forum in Madison in January, and I said those maps are rigged. I stand by that statement that our maps are rigged in this state. They are rigged.

It means we don't have competitive districts. It means that people aren't adequately represented. It means our representative democracy is really at peril. What I would like to do, and remember, I'm running for a judicial spot. I can't promise anybody anything. I can tell you what my personal value is. My personal value is that our democracy is paramount. It is the most important thing that we have. And the way our maps are configured right now, our democracy is at peril. I would certainly welcome the opportunity

to have a fresh look at our maps. That'll do it. So, Judge Protusewitz, one issue you've been pretty candid about is your belief that Wisconsinites have the right to abortion without interference from government officials. What kind of a difference could you make on this issue if you were added to the court? So I'll tell you this. I have been very, very forthright that my personal value is that women have a right to choose. Reproductive decisions belong to the person,

Reproductive decisions belong to the person, right? That's what I believe, and I have been very, very forthright about that. I can tell you this. I think everybody in this audience knows we are operating under an 1849 near-total abortion ban. I can tell you with 100% certainty, 100%, that if my opponent is elected to our Wisconsin Supreme Court, that ban is going to stand. I can promise you that. You know, you can take a look at Wisconsin Right to Life's website,

and you'll see a picture of my opponent, and you'll see that they have endorsed him. And you will see that they have endorsed him. And you will see that Wisconsin Right to Life states, we endorsed him because he pledged, the word they use, pledged to uphold our values. So I can tell you what will happen if he is elected to the Wisconsin Supreme Court. I think you all know what my value is. People should have a right to choose. That is my value. And I think that that is paramount. And I certainly expect that we'll be looking at that issue in the near future. Judge, in 2010, I had left my home of Wisconsin,

but I remember watching this from afar and being like, what is happening in my state? In 2010, I had left my home of Wisconsin, but I remember watching this from afar and being like, what is happening in my state? In 2010, then Governor Scott Walker made moves to dismantle public sector unions. Since then, Wisconsin has done a lot of high profile backsliding. What are some of the most egregious ways that you've seen Republicans in Wisconsin ignore the law or the will of voters? And what are some positive changes that Democrats have been blocked from enacting? Okay, so there are so many answers that I could give you to that question. So many answers. So let's talk a little bit about Act 10. You know, I come from a union family. I was a union member. I was a union member when Act 10 was enacted.

So what action did I take? At that point, I was an assistant district attorney in Milwaukee. I signed the governor's recall petition. And I came to this beautiful city, and I marched at the Capitol in protest of Act 10. And this race has received so very much attention. The New York Times asked me about it. And they said, what do you think? Do you think that Act 10 was unconstitutional? And I said, well, I agree with the dissent in that case, where the author said Act 10 is unconstitutional. So we have so many issues. When I tell people that everything that we care about is on the line with this election, I mean everything. We talked about those gerrymandered maps. We talked about a woman's

right to choose. The 2024 presidential election, you know, Ben and Mandela talked to you about that. That is likely to come in front of our Wisconsin Supreme Court chamber. That is likely to come in front of our Wisconsin Supreme Court chamber. What about marriage equality? What about LGBTQ rights? What about our environment? All of our Wisconsin values. Very, very likely that these issues are going to come in front of our Supreme Court.

But then there's something that's really overreaching over all of those, and that is integrity and fairness and getting away from the extremism. I would think we would all want... You are a fun group. Nobody else applauds when anybody talks about judicial philosophy, right? You are really fun. But just our independence, everything, getting away from the extremism. So it's not just those issues that are going to come before the Supreme Court. It's really the integrity of the institution itself that is at peril.

It's really the integrity of the institution itself that is at peril. Judge, your opponent Dan Kelly was first appointed to the state Supreme Court by former Governor Scott Walker back in 2016. But then he lost his bid for reelection to Judge Jill Karofsky, who is here. who is here in an infamous COVID-19 era election. So how can people listening and how can people here ensure that in 2023 Dan Kelly loses

again? Well besides getting out and voting Kelly's got two L's. Would that be for two losses? Protosewitz has a W. What does that stand for? All right, Judge Janet Protusewitz, I have one final question for you. All right.

How far is the Marquette men's basketball team going to make it? All the way. All the way. All the way. One more time for Judge... Dana. Fuck, fuck. One more time for Judge Protasiewicz. I got it.

And we're back. You know, it takes a pro... It takes a Protasiewicz. Yeah. There it is. Although Senator Tammy Baldwin taught us just an easier way to remember, which is just judge pro-choice wits,

which doesn't work, but is good messaging. It's been a pleasure to join all of you here in Wisconsin. The heart of the country. A heart brimming with dairy. Which is why it's time for a game we're calling Truth or Dairy. Now, I want you to know something. My intention for this game

was that instead of taking shots of of alcohol we would take shots of whole milk uh but my my uh my west coast softies were like whole milk it was like we were describing Drano to them but luckily for us uh Ben Wickler and Mandela Barnes want to show their face in this state for the rest of their lives. So they're going to do milk. And I'll tell you one other thing. When I said, oh, but if I'm hosting, I don't get to have the milk.

And then someone on the team was like, you mean have to have the milk. And I meant, no, get to have it. Here we go. Enjoy. We're going to deal with her later. So it's time for a quiz about dairy. Are you ready? And if you get it wrong, you have to take a shot of either dairy or alcohol.

All right, you're ready? You have a shot? Ready to go? There's no dairy on this table. Yeah. Just this week, Wisconsin Republicans blocked a mandate requiring students to be vaccinated against what potential deadly disease? Is it A, measles, B, meningitis, C, rubella, or D, cordyceps brain infection?

Everybody throw out an answer. Meningitis. measles, B, meningitis, C, rubella, or D, cordyceps brain infection? Everybody throw out an answer. Meningitis. Meningitis. Meningitis. Meningitis. That's correct. That is correct. It wasn't the disease from The Last of Us. Last month, Green Bay welcomed the United... So nobody drinks.

Last month, Green Bay welcomed the United States Championship Cheese Contest. Within five of the correct answer, how many of the 113 cheese-related categories did Wisconsin win this year? How many categories? There's 113 categories. Wisconsin did very well. You have to just guess a number and be close. I'm going to go with 100.

I think it... I'm so scared if this is so wrong, but I think it's 23. Is that right? Wow. But it was a lot. It was a lot. I'm going with 70.

Oh, I'm going to do 72. Is this Price is Right rules? It is not, but everybody is drinking milk because the answer was 54. It was a lot. You guys did great. You did great.

You punched above your weight, cheese-wise. There we go. Cheers. Was it too much? That is so much alcohol. It was just a shot glass. I don't know. Here, you want to give me some?

Take your shot, you weenies. All right. Think about how much of the world doesn't live in Wisconsin and how much does, and then we get 54. Hell yeah. Yeah. That's a lot of cheese categories. It's good cheese work, Wisconsin.

And same rules. Now, how many did California take home? Now, we make a lot of milk in California. There's some good creameries out on the West Coast. Not as many as here, but there are some good creameries. Let's see. California, 15? Eight. Zero. but there are some good creameries. Let's see, California. 15? 8.

Zero. I'm going to say one. Five. You want to say five? I'll say five. How many did you say? 15. I said eight. John, take a shot. It was nine. Everyone else was close enough. Oh, you said zero. Take a shot. Everyone else was close enough.

What the hell? I remember those BS happy cows come from California commercials. It was terrible. You can't even make cheese. They just make sunshine. Yeah. We don't need cheese anymore. We have Ozempic.

That means we can have more cheese. That's the whole point of Ozempic. That means we can have more cheese. That's the whole point of Ozempic, right? I don't know how it works. My doctor won't give it to me. Last month, the FDA released draft guidance stating that non-dairy beverages can market themselves with the word

milk, provided they include information comparing the nutritional value of plant-baked milk, a suggestion farmers across the country are taking umbrage with. In fact, earlier this month, Senator Tammy Baldwin submitted the Senate version of what bill? Pushing back on calling plant-based milk, milk. Was it A, the Dairy Pride Act? B, the Milkian Air Act? The what? Milkian Air.

C, the counterfeit act. Or D, the mystery act. Misdairy act. I'm going to go with A on that one. It's Tammy Baldwin, so I'm guessing counterfeit. Dairy pride. Dairy pride. It's dairy pride.

Aaron, take a shot. Take a shot. It's not just a bill here, to be clear. Dairy Pride is what this state is about. Yeah, I'll take this shot even though I got it right. This just ends with just milk, just a stage covered in milk. It's a botched

dairy experience. This is unrelated to dairy, but it's still a good question. In February, Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson called what American institution a Ponzi scheme? Was it A, student loans,

B, the Girl Scouts, C, Social Security, or D, Ticketmaster? It is always Social Security. Yeah, it's got to be Social Security. It is. It's Social Security. I wish it were the Girl Scouts, though. That'd be hilarious.

The University of Wisconsin-Madison was the first college in the nation to offer a major in what subject? A, dairy. B, film. C, women's studies. Or D, Russian. Sounds like dairy.

Dairy. But maybe it's women's studies. No, it's dairy. It's dairy. Oh, no. I have to drink some milk. You got to drink some milk. Now, before we go, when we were backstage, Ben said, I want to make sure I plug

what we're trying to do to win this race one more time and I said fine but you have as much time as it takes me to drink a quart of sassy cow chocolate milk hey Ben there's 17 days between now and the election Hey Ben, Ben There's 17 days between now and the election

I would love you to go through day by day What we should do each day Let's begin Alright How many people here drove from outside of Madison? Can I hear? Thank you People from all over Wisconsin came to this show. If you're listening right now, you should cheer if you're not in Wisconsin. I can hear their voices

in their cars. If everyone here signs up for three door knocking shifts, we're going to knock 75,000 doors in the next 17 days. We are knocking every weekend. We are knocking through the week. We have early vote in Wisconsin starts on Tuesday, March 21st. In Wisconsin, you can same day register to vote, which means you can show up even if you're unregistered, cast a ballot, recruit three friends to vote. Everyone here, everyone listening can make phone calls, knock on doors and get people to participate in this election. If we do that, we win, we change history. Let's do this!

Oh my god! Wisstems.org For those listening at home, there's no more chocolate milk on this stage than is not in John Lovett's body. He drank it all. He drank it all. Thank you to Ben Wickler. Thank you to Mandela Barnes.

Thank you, Aaron Ryan. Thanks to Judge Janet Pertusiewicz. Go vote for her on April 4th. Thank you, Madison. Good night, everybody. Oh, my God. That's a lot of milk. That's a lot of milk that's a lot of milk Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production.

The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein. Our producers are Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineered the show. Thanks to Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Sandy Gerard, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montu.

Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash podsaveamerica.