Pod Save America - "New Phone, Coup Dis?" (with Stacey Abrams!)

Episode Date: April 26, 2022

Republicans were even more complicit than thought in carrying out and covering up Donald Trump’s coup, Kevin McCarthy gets caught lying, Stacey Abrams joins to talk about her race for Governor, and later: some recommendations on what to watch and read if you’re planning to quit Twitter now that it’s owned by Elon Musk.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.  

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. On today's show, Republicans were even more complicit than we thought in carrying out and covering up Donald Trump's coup. Kevin McCarthy gets caught lying. Stacey Abrams joins to talk about her race for governor. And later, some recommendations on what to watch and read if you're planning to quit Twitter now that it's owned by Elon Musk. But first... Can I read you my favorite overreaction tweet? Sure. Oh, we're going to do it's owned by Elon Musk. But first... Can I read you my favorite overreaction tweet?

Sure. Oh, we're going to do it now? Yeah, sure. Why not? Well, this guy named Noah Pollack suggested that there be a Truth and Reconciliation Committee to figure out if conservatives were banned from Twitter. So, you know. Everyone's taking this in stride, I think.

It's a format usually reserved for apartheid. Not shadow bands. A lot of people are pretty confused about what Twitter is. I thought it was people publishing sentences while on the toilet. But a lot of people seem to think they're crossing the Delaware. And it's surprising. Sorry, I didn't mean to jump ahead. Before we get into the news, check out Hot Take, the newest crooked podcast that provides an honest look at the climate crisis and all the ways media and society are talking and not talking about it. On the latest episode, hosts Mary Anais Hegler and Amy Westervelt break down the origins of Earth Day and name the biggest enemies in the fossil fuel industry.

Also this week on America Dissected, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed talks to Ai-jen Poo, co-founder and executive director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance, about society's treatment of care workers and how their work continues to be undervalued. New episodes of Hot Take drop every Friday, and America Dissected every Tuesday. Hot Take

crew, they don't like BP. They're not fans of BP. Not fans of BP. Who is uh or frankly a green washing on earth day great episode great episode check it out you guys have asked for so long is there going to be a climate podcast on media there is there is now climate podcast there is as part of the cricket media check it out go check it out go check it out all right let's get to the news new revelations about donald trump's attempted coup after the 2020 election tell a story of a republican party that was both in on the crime and the cover-up cnn has more mark meadows texts gift that keeps on giving that guy's phone i just we're gonna get it but it's so funny to me that

he turned over this incredibly incriminating trove of text and then said no more cooperation i'm done yeah just all of my texts ever. The barn door cannot be closed. He also withheld a thousand messages. Imagine what's in those. Yeah, I was going to say, because included in this latest group that CNN has is Marjorie Taylor Greene

saying that she and other MAGA House members want Trump to declare martial law. They also had Trump aide Jason Miller suggesting that the president tweet that the insurrectionists are all Antifa. So that's where that came from. You can thank Jason Miller. Separately, the January 6th committee filed a brief in court the other day that shows even though Secret Service warned Meadows that there were intel reports about potential violence on the 6th, the White House chief of staff and several MAGA congressmen strategized about sending protesters to the Capitol after Trump's speech.

And in their soon-to-be-released book about the aftermath of 2020, New York Times reporters Jonathan Martin and Alex Burns report that soon after January 6th, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell, quote, told associates they believed President Trump was responsible for inciting the deadly riot and vowed to drive him from politics. McCarthy quickly called the report totally false before being almost immediately humiliated by the release of an audio recording that suggests otherwise. Let's listen. The only discussion I would have with him is that I think this will pass and and it would be my recommendation we should move on. I've had it with this guy. What he did is unacceptable. Nobody can defend that, and nobody should defend it.

Before we get to McCarthy, what do you guys think is particularly notable or significant in those Meadows texts that CNN obtained or the Meadows court filing from the weekend. A lot of Meadows news. A lot of news. Also, credit to Kevin for being audible with that ball gag in his mouth. That is not easy. Don't kink shame Kevin McCarthy. No, no, no. He's just bringing up the kimp. He's fine. Don't kink shame. Obviously, Kevin McCarthy enjoys being dominated both politically and probably also sexually, and there's nothing wrong. I didn't mean i just meant politically i know but i'm just saying i'm just saying anyway so someone have some notable texts i have some notable so many go first of all uh not only did people it was it was so clear to even the most right-wing members that trump was responsible

for this insurrection they were desperately texting from inside the Capitol. Even Marjorie Taylor Greene was texting, please tell the president to calm people. This isn't the way to solve anything. The way to solve it is through martial law. Let's have some orderly martial law, not none of this nonsense of people running around the Capitol. The other thing about, obviously, martial law is these people are fascists and authoritarians. But I don't even understand. It's like, step one, martial law. Step two, what? What do you get with martial law?

You just shut the whole country down, and then all of a sudden he's won the election? Just sort of baffling. It's just they're kind of doing authoritarian jazz. She also spelled it M-A-R-S-H-A-L-L. Of course she did. Just a small thing. Of course she did, because everything is very stupid and very important. She also said she said,

some members of the caucus are suggesting martial law. I don't know on these things. I just wanted you to tell him. Like, what do you, what does that even mean? Yeah,

I don't know. Alternate, want to alternate. Okay, this is one of my favorites. I just like how they, the range of requests for Mark Meadows

is so broad. Bernie Carrick texts Mark Meadows and asks him for hotel accommodations and a ride from the airport. It's the White House Chief of Staff. White House Chief of Staff. He's like staff like yo can you pick me up in the world at dallas i wonder if it was dallas or dca that's actually a big distinction wild and the uh he did call him sir in those requests though you're right you need we need a ride and we need a hotel sir i do not

like that radisson sir so obviously the still one of the funniest aspects of these texts is Rick Perry denied this ever happened. But Rick Perry signs his text, Rick Perry, with his phone number, and they confirmed it's his number. So Rick Perry was texting to incite the coup. But one, I think, more chilling aspect of this was that it was around Jeffrey Clark, this Trump apparatchik inside of the DOJ. And one thing that does come across through all of these text messages is this was a coup that didn't fail for lack of effort. They didn't have enough people on their side in a few very key places. And you read these texts and you realize how close we were. A few other turns, a few abilities to get one or a few places where they can get one or two more Trumpists in place in the Department of Justice. Pence goes the other way under an incredible amount of pressure. We could be in a very different country right now. Well, they're all talking about that in all of these texts, too. Many different people suggest, oh, we just got to send it back to the states because they were all

very confident that if they got back to the state legislatures, that the state legislatures, controlled by Republicans in a lot of these states would just send an alternate slate of electors and then we'd be in chaos. I also liked when Sean Hannity was asking for his marching orders from Mark Meadows and his response was, yes, sir, Hannity replied. So, you know, speaking of sirs, it does get respect from Sean. The other great one that just tells you everything you know about all this crew is you can see Jason Miller making up lies in real time and suggesting that Trump should tweet them. So he's like 345 that day.

Jason Miller is saying we should tweet that Antifa infiltrated the January 6th crowd. Get that out there. He wants Trump to blame Antifa for the insurrection. And again, like the demoralizing thing is Jason Miller, still a source for tons of reporters quoted all the time, spinning these stories. And speaking of Jason Miller lying. So, you know, one thing we are learning is that on that, that a lot of the people involved in this illegal effort to overturn the election were told it was illegal in advance, which is important. They knew it was illegal. It is also important that a lot of them were told that there was a risk of violence. That is very clear. The other piece of this is Miller is basically trying to, I think before

he realized just how fast this bus was going, was trying to stop it. And he said, hey, we're looking at the data here. We can't find this fraud that you're, if there was basically, because Trump overperformed in certain urban areas, there wasn't some there was no way to find evidence of some stuffed ballots because they just the votes weren't there. That's not where Biden was winning. And Miller is pointing this out. So in real time, they're also very much aware that what they're talking about are just bald bald face. Which is very important as we get into the legal ramifications of this, because, again, they're all saying, oh, we're just objecting because we really believed there was voter fraud. But they didn't really believe there was voter fraud because they knew there wasn't voter fraud.

They lied. And also the texts are very fun. But that filing that the January 6th committee filed in court to get the rest of Meadows' texts, you know, there has been plenty of public evidence since January 6th that Trump incited the crowd. You know, there has been plenty of public evidence since January 6th that Trump incited the crowd. But the question that hasn't been answered is to what extent did Trump and his senior staff plan, organize and direct the riot itself? And why didn't they stop it earlier? And now we're starting to see, well, the Secret Service, you know, said there were intel reports that there's going to be violence. to be violence and and knowing that those reports were true meadows and a bunch of members of congress were still like yeah we should send we should send this crowd to the capitol even if we know there could be violence yeah they didn't care it's just ridiculous part of the plan all right

let's turn to the man uh trump once referred to as mike kevin mike kevin uh the guy who once gave him his favorite starbursts remember he was pink or red? It was pink and red. It was both. Trump likes pink and red the best, so Kevin McCarthy bought a bag of Starbursts, picked out all the red and pink Starbursts, put them in a jar, put his name on the jar, said this is from Kevin McCarthy to Donald Trump

and sent him the jar. Pink and red are the best, though. All right. What was your reaction to the phone call, to the phone call uh to the audio recording and uh and to mccarthy's pretty terrible attempt at lying about it tommy by the well here's my little uh progression of feelings about this what an idiot how did he not know there were tapes this is a big conference call liz cheney was on it she hates her guts now

uh oh yeah wait mccarthy believes in nothing uh He has no dignity. He has no integrity. He just wants power. And his read on the last half decade of politics is that lying about everything doesn't matter. Watch Trump. He did it. It worked for him. The press corps won't even use the word lie half the time. So what's the downside? Then I thought, oh, how can reporters ever quote McCarthy again after this? Then I thought, oh wait, they absolutely will. Half of them said he was caught in a falsehood. It wouldn't even call it a lie. Then I wept into my hands. And then I just remembered, oh yeah, Kevin McCarthy can't be speaker if Trump doesn't back him. And that's all he cares about. End of scene. Love it. I think they got it.

Scenes from a marriage. Yeah. So do we know right now who recorded it? Liz Cheney denies that she's the person who recorded it. Oh, I assumed it was her. But she's denying it. I'm fake newsing. Whatever. Of course she's the person who recorded it. Oh, I assumed it was her. But she's denying it. I'm fake newsing. Of course she would. I mean, who would say, yeah, it was me?

Yeah, I suppose. We don't know who else. I mean, we don't know the full, whatever. She's been on an integrity kick lately. Good for you, person who recorded it. I'm inclined to trust her. Yeah, thank you for whoever recorded it. Yeah, I mean, it struck me that the statements, McCarthy's a liar and he doesn't care about having credibility.

He doesn't care with the mainstream press reports. But it did strike me that he denied it with the enthusiasm and confidence of someone who wasn't aware that the conversation was recorded. Yeah, that was weird. Because it was a problem. I mean, it took him three days to figure out what to do. And he had to go to the border so that he could be asked about it, so that he could change the subject to the border. That's a 2,000-mile flight to evade the question. That was years ago.

This is today. subject to the border that's a 2 000 mile flight that was years ago that was years ago this is today and what happened is the reporter asked me if i called president trump and said will you resign and i didn't call him i was talking to members about something i'm like no no that's actually that's not true now you he lied again at the border because what the because he says here's what i think because what they actually asked him in his spokesman was is it true that you told members that you were thinking of calling him resigning? He said, no, that's not true. There was no nuance in the denial. There was no nuance in the denial.

It was just a lie. By the way, Mitch McConnell, sort of going under the radar here, because McCarthy, there was a recording, but McConnell said at one point, the Democrats are going to take care of the son of a bitch for us. If this isn't impeachable, I don't know what is. Mitch McConnell, who, as we talked about a couple weeks ago, then chatted with Jonathan Swan and said, oh, yeah, absolutely. Nominee. Absolutely. I support him.

Yeah. And this ultimately voted against impeachment. I did. Mitch can count votes like he knows that that's not the weird thing about that quote is he knows that's not possible. The Democrats couldn't have taken care of him for them. The maybe he thought it was just like he was going to get it from the House and then that's fine, which he did. Look, Democrats are going to take care of Trump for him. Like, I just let's believe in ourselves. Bet on you. Let's have as much faith in us as McConnell has in us.

You know what I mean? Yeah, well, well, so there were some people, including me, who thought that this revelation would might cause Trump and Maga World to turn on McCarthy and endanger his political future. Like you just said, Tommy, he can't be speaker without Trump support. But Trump apparently told McCarthy, I'm not mad at you. After McCarthy called him after this whole episode and begged for forgiveness Love it, what do you make of Trump's reaction? Trump's quotes on this I think it's all a big compliment frankly

they realized they were wrong and supported me he said I like him and other than that brief period of time I suspect he likes me quite a bit that's what Trump said about Kevin McCarthy they're all just like really self-serving quotes. Like, oh no, he doesn't care. He thinks it makes him look strong and powerful,

said a lying Trump aide on background to some credulous reporter. But then Trump did a poolside interview with the Wall Street Journal and then repeated all the same lines. The only thing better to Donald Trump than someone who has been crawling on their hands and knees behind him for years

is someone who claimed that they were tougher and better and didn't need him and were stronger and were against him and ended up right back on their knees crawling behind too. He loves it. I also think Trump wants to be liked, of course. He desperately wants to be liked. But what he wants even more is to be feared. And McCarthy fears him. And McConnell fears him. And they all fall in line. And he wants them all to fall in line. And they all have fallen in line. And like, you know, as we, I saw Dan tweet this, but he was like, you know, the real conclusion from this whole thing is if Republicans take the House and Kevin McCarthy's speaker, he's under Donald Trump's control.

He'll do whatever Donald Trump wants him to do and sold Mitch McConnell for till the end of time. And the most important thing Kevin McCarthy did is not briefly flirt with private bravery on the phone with Liz Cheney. The most important thing he did was lead his caucus to try to overturn the election in the House. Yeah, because his entire caucus voted. He could not stop it. He was aligned with it. And so you look at Kevin McCarthy, you put Kevin McCarthy as speaker. That is that is someone who will lead the Republican caucus to overturning an election. That is what they already did. That is what they will do again. So why not keep him there? Yeah, I think Trump sort of owned him before this happened. Now he owns him more. I mean, mostly this is getting suppressed. Like Fox News is not really reporting on the story. The Bannon

types are really pissed about it. And they're out there raising hell like him and boris f stein on the show they are still mad about yeah i dip back into my special correspondent here i've been trying to not do that for a while but i'm gonna go back in um bannon's out there saying now okay now we own kevin now kevin has to be 100 percent that means he has to stop going against mega candidates in primaries that means he has to put forward mega policies where has he been anything but 100% MAGA recently? Yeah, but they're going to hold him down and carve a swastika in his forehead. I just, you know, but like Sarah Longwell,

who writes for The Bulwark, does a lot of focus groups, said she did a focus group of Trump voters in Ohio, asked them if they'd heard anything about Kevin McCarthy lately. It was crickets. No one had heard of it. It's just not getting reported out.

So the bigger sin on this call was maybe McCarthy saying he wanted Twitter to strip republicans like bobert and i think mtg of their social media accounts that is like yeah you know you can't do that yeah no this is definitely a story that in no way is going to like break through to most people in the country it's only interesting if trump decided that he was pissed off at mccarthy over this or if other republicans are pissed off at mccarthy about this for what you just said, Tommy, and then it jeopardizes, you know, his path to being speaker someday. And Matt Gaetz tweaked out, put out a statement attacking McCarthy, but that was kind of it. And he kind of jumped the gun on that.

I don't think he jumped the gun. I did it because he wanted to get his shots in before Trump stopped him. But just one other point about this too is I wish there was more of a connection being made between the willingness of people like Rick Perry, Kevin McCarthy, others in these texts to just not issue non-denial denials, not to elide the truth, but to just look reporters in the eyes, look people in the eyes and just lie with the content of the messages themselves. There is something I know, man, there's there's something they have in common, which is, hey, like these are not obviously these people are not on the level, but it's worse than that, right? Like they're not in a democracy with you.

They're not in a civil society with you. They're not engaged in a great debate with you to see who should win elections and take power the old fashioned way. They are trying to control power in any way that they can. And in the same way, Tommy, as you point out, that they kind of, there's almost like an emergent lie of blaming Antifa that pops up through these texts. You see that same emergent lie of coming up with false voter fraud ideas, coming up with dominion theories, Soros theories,

all these theories that start popping up in these texts purely because they just need something to say and they know it isn't true. They'll cling to anything so uh trump had a similar reaction to past criticism from ohio senate candidate jd vance who he endorsed at a rally this weekend uh let's take a listen he's a guy that said some bad shit about me He did. He did. But you know what? Every one of the others did also. In fact, if I went by that standard, I don't think I would have ever endorsed anybody in the country. That's a good point.

I guess, since when does Trump not hold a grudge? The guy is just riding high. He's generous. He's sitting on his throne dispensing. He's sitting and dispensing indulgences magnanimous yeah just giving people their their their um their lordships and their and their earldoms you know yeah i think this just comes back to like trump knows that that the other major opponent in this race josh mandel he might literally be a serial killer you know like if he had someone just

chained in his basement for half a decade like it wouldn't surprise me at all i think trump knows that he likes to gossip about us and the daily beast has been reported i think he's also one of the dumbest human beings just horrendous and also peter teal's money and influence is a is big and prominent and i think like actually means something yeah i think trump would rather be with a winner who pretends to like him than a loser who actually likes him yeah yeah i don't that's what he wants he doesn't he knows you can like him or not like him you just got to be a winner and you can't want it too hard in his presence he doesn't like that that's what lindsey graham taught us right you can't supplicate too much yeah uh all right before we move on uh we

should again point out that the maga wing of the republican party is also busy making sure that their next coup succeeds uh over the weekend, the Michigan Republican Party nominated Matt DiPerno for attorney general and Christina Karamo for secretary of state, two Trump-endorsed candidates who have no real qualifications other than being election fraud activists. Guys, what do we know about these two? Election fraud activists is such a convivial term. Look, they're just trying to change the world yeah uh these are some wild people does anyone want to tommy do you sure i mean we don't know about these idiots kristin karamo uh who would be the secretary of state if she wins

her election um she would then go on to oversee cyber security of elections audits general trust and transparency uh in the next contest she doesn't believe in evolution she doesn't think she should be taught in schools she calls public schools government indoctrination camps she speaks at q anon gatherings including the convention in vegas which you know that's a tough booking so good for her also that's the big one you don't want to miss that one you don't want to miss that one you're always looking for an excuse to go to Vegas, boys. She thinks Antifa is behind the insurrection. She's the anti-vaxxer.

I mean, basically, like she, you know, we laugh at that description you had at the top of who these people are. But she showed up at the vote counting center in Detroit. She saw someone, you know, she spotted a ballot on the screen where a voter appeared to have cast their ballot along straight party lines for both main parties. And she heard some supervisor tell a poll worker to push the ballot through. She decided that meant give that vote to Biden. is that she just completely misunderstood what she heard. And what they were saying is, okay, like, don't count that vote, but put it in the bill where we don't discard it. It just sits in sort of a pending area, but it doesn't get fraudulently counted for anybody because this voter obviously voted for two candidates.

But this story she told made her a celebrity, got her a ton of money, and she is the the the nominee i mean she is out there with 67 of the vote said lgbt people violate god's creative design uh she called republicans who don't support her traitors she called democrats satanic um she is just she said that all the police officers who testified before the january 6th committee are crisis actors oh good yeah yeah she's uh so amanda carpenter at the bulwark had the story about these two uh by the testified before the January 6th committee are crisis actors. Oh, good. Yeah, yeah. So Amanda Carpenter at the Bulwark had the story about these two. By the way, DeParno, we haven't talked about him, Matt DeParno,

he wants to be attorney general. He filed a bunch of lawsuits saying that he has proof the voting machines were corrupted. They all got thrown out, of course. He also has promised that if he's elected, he'll prosecute and imprison the current Democratic attorney general. Okay. So that's his campaign promise. Good. Amanda Carpenter was saying that the michigan gop they actually had a questionnaire for all of these candidates just to decide whether they're going to endorse them or not in the uh in the general

election and on the questionnaire there were um there were questions like define a rhino in your own words what do you believe happened at the u.s capital on january 6th were you there by the By the way, what I like about these questions, too, is they're like flying off the fucking handle because there's a math textbook that asks a kid how they feel about math. These are the most feelings-based fucking people. An election, who wins an election is based primarily on how it feels to you in the moment. What do you believe happened on Election Day, November 3rd? Do you believe there was fraud? Do you support a full forensic audit and investigation? Should Dominion voting machines be removed?

And should election officials be held accountable, prosecuted, and removed for violations? That was the questions they asked. And of course, you can imagine how DiPerno and Caramo answered all of those questions. Ten out of ten. five on the AP. So that is the, those would be, so they will officially be endorsed at the party's convention soon. That will be your Republican candidate for attorney general and your Republican candidate for secretary of state,

the top elections official in the state of Michigan. That's how important that race is. Yeah. Caramo is the first election denying secretary of state to get to the general election, but one of like a dozen or more nationwide who's running.

So, scary trend there. Votesaveamerica.com slash midterms, guys. Go and sign up for a region. Who's got the Midwest? Is that you, Tommy? Hey, Tommy,

isn't this your region? It sure is, guys. This is why we gotta care about top of the ticket and down bout. That's right. That's right.

So, go help. When we come back... Throw Tommy's Midwestern region some love,'s right. That's right. So go help. When we come back. Throw Tommy's Midwestern region some love. Yeah, please. Sign up. Come on. They got cheese curds up there.

We do. They got cheese curds and election denier activists. We got election deniers. We got cheese curds. Detroit style pizza. All kinds of things in Wisconsin that are fun. Culver's. That's selling it.

Culver's. That's selling it right there. Yeah, we can go. All right. Let's go for a trip. All right. When we come back, Lovett and I will talk to St's, yeah. That's selling it right there. Yeah, we can go. All right, sign up. Let's go for a trip. All right, when we come back, Lovett and I will talk to Stacey Abrams.

I also asked about Star Trek. Joining us now, one of our favorite guests, she's the founder of Fair Fight, former Georgia House Minority Leader, state party leader, and hopefully the next governor of Georgia, Stacey Abrams. Welcome back to the pod. Thanks for having me. So I'm sure you had better things to do than watch last night's primary debate between

Brian Kemp and David Perdue. But what's your reaction from what you've heard about it? And more broadly, how does your message change depending on which one of those goobers wins the Republican primary? Well, if last night's debate is any indication, my message doesn't need to change at all. I'm the only one actually talking about Georgians and their lives, their needs. They spent, to my count, most of the debate either debating who cost whom, whatever power they think they're entitled to, but more importantly, they spent their time re-litigating instead of pressing the issue of how do we serve Georgians going forward. I believe that this is an opportunity for us to look at the

pain and the anxiety that people are feeling, to acknowledge that COVID is not gone. It may be receding, but it is not gone. That the aftereffects remain with us. That inflation and crime are real salient issues for many people. And they know this too will pass, but they need to know how. And they need to know who's willing to lead them. And unfortunately, there was not a moment dedicated last night to actually articulating a plan for Georgia. There was casting aspersions, casting blame and casting about for reasons why I shouldn't be the governor. But nothing to say why either of them should either get to keep the job or get to have the job. Follow up question. As the president of United Earth, do you feel you did enough to prepare for the dark matter anomaly?

As the president of United Earth, do you feel you did enough to prepare for the dark matter anomaly? Was there an intelligence failure with regard to unknown species 10C? And do you view the evacuation of planet Earth as a setback for your administration? I do not believe it was a setback. I do believe that we used the information and the intelligence once we had it. I'm proud of the leadership shown by our military and by the support that we received from the reconvening federation and i look forward to working together and rejoining the federation so that we can anticipate new struggles for all life amazing that was like you guys just speaking in a foreign language to me back to this race on this on this planet um there's a place on earth john just takes place

uh just the the the ship did jump uh 900 years into the future but takes place on Earth, John. The ship did jump 900 years into the future, but it takes place on Earth. Of course. Of course. President of United Earth, reconstituting the Federation. Continue. So there are a lot of big issues at stake in the midterms. Everything from voting rights to LGBT rights to book bans, abortion. You have chosen to focus your campaign primarily on Medicaid expansion. Can you talk about the decision behind that? I've centered Medicaid expansion as an avatar

and as an example of what we can do. The issues that you named are all issues that have to do with quality of life, the kind of lives we have, the access to opportunity that communities and families want. And Medicaid expansion is the beginning. It creates an opportunity for 500,000 Georgians to have access to healthcare. And that means when you get sick, when you feel a little under the weather, instead of powering through, you can call

and make an appointment. If you have access to metformin, that means you don't need access to insulin because you're able to take care of yourself. So there's the health insurance piece. There's also the jobs piece. Medicaid expansion in Georgia will create 64,000 new jobs. Those are good paying jobs across the entire state, especially in rural communities. It saves hospitals. That means people's lives are saved, but also jobs are saved. And writ large, for everyone who has insurance, who's thinking, well, what's in it for me? Our costs go down when more people have access. More people get sick, whether they can afford it or not. I know this for a fact. And the reality is that if we expand Medicaid, everyone's costs go down. And at a time when people are very price sensitive,

Medicaid, everyone's costs go down. And at a time when people are very price sensitive, when we're paying attention to every penny, Medicaid expansion is a $3.5 billion infusion of Georgia taxpayer dollars into our state coffers to help our fellow citizens and take care of our communities. And so I start there because it's about healthcare. It's about education because that means we improve our property tax value so we can put more into education. It's how we improve our economy. It is the single most effective jobs program, health program and infrastructure program I can imagine for Georgia. So the Republicans in your state are obviously focused on a lot of other things. The Georgia legislature is trying to pass their own version of Florida's don't say gay bill.

They're trying to pass a bill that limits how race can be discussed in the classroom. They're trying to pass book bans. So there's some strategists that say, you know, Democratic candidates should avoid taking the bait on these culture war fights. Others say that's wrong, that Democrats should try to fight and win these culture wars. What has your strategy been? And what are you hearing from voters as you're traveling across the state? Our first responsibility is not to be so reductive. We're talking about how our children learn, how they live. When you have a conversation or when there is legislation that will legitimize banning children from sports, what we're telling our most vulnerable children and their most

fragile moment is that you don't belong. That's not a culture war. That is a parenting issue. That is a culture war. That is a parenting issue. That is a people issue. That's a humanity issue. And yes, we should talk about how we want every child to feel they belong in our community. When we talk about banning books,

when there is legislation to lie about our history, then we are teaching our children either to tell the truth or to tell lies, to either be resilient or to manufacture the truth or to tell lies, to either be resilient or to manufacture the truth that they want. This is about how we grow strong, resilient adults who become good citizens. When we have debates about whether we talk about homosexuality and sexual orientation and sexual identity, it's about how do we have conversations about who we are. This isn't about a war. This is about who we are as people. And when we avoid conversations about humanity, we allow inhumanity

in. And so my responsibility is not to take the bait by using whatever pejorative term they choose to use, but to integrate these conversations into how I talk about education, how I talk about the economy, how I talk about leadership. We should want leaders who want thoughtful, resilient adults who know that we've made mistakes, but know that we can be better when we acknowledge those mistakes and understand the history behind the mistakes

and the history behind how we redeemed ourselves. So if you're the governor of Georgia and it's time to appoint the leaders of your administration, you can only choose Star Trek characters. Of course. Which Star Trek characters are you putting in key positions? I would begin by looking to my science officers because we are still in the midst of a crisis in our public health infrastructure. I think that Dr. Beverly Crusher is an important person to look to. I think the doctor would make sense as an adjunct. I would certainly look to bringing together a cabinet of leaders who've demonstrated that they can navigate difficult situations. So Catherine Janeway, I think

Picard's a little busy in a different timeline right now. But I would, of course, want to turn to Michael Burnham and invite her to this conversation. And I think that, you know, Captain Sisko is someone who has a thoughtful understanding of how to navigate difficult times, especially times given that Ron DeSantis has said something about not liking me. I might need his ambassador behavior to help navigate how we work better

with all the states that are surrounding us. Wow. I wonder, you know, I think Dr. McCoy would be anti-mask on plane, but I think Beverly Crusher might be for it. What do you think? I think both of them would want to take care of the people around them

and would mask up for everyone's safety. Okay. Okay. Okay. I just want to point out this has been seamless. This is going exactly as we planned. I know. Exactly as we planned.

I have one more Star Trek question. Do you have I know exactly as we planned. I have one more Star Trek question. Do you have any more other questions? Yeah, I have one more. I'm not going to call it a real question, a different question. Thank you. Different category of question. Thank you to both. We appreciate that. So you've done a lot of fighting for voting rights to protect voting rights. Obviously, there's a lot of new voter suppression laws, including in your state. Can you talk about what your campaign and other Georgia organizers are doing to overcome or get around the new voter suppression law? And also sort of how that's landing with voters? Because I think as you and I have talked about so many times, you know, one of the more pernicious effects of voter suppression is that it makes people feel, why should I even bother trying?

Why should I even try to go out and vote? Is it going to be too hard? Or am I going to get turned away? Or is my vote going to even count? Well, one of the reasons our campaign is being so aggressive about fundraising during a primary, even though I don't have a technical opponent, although last night's debate would signal that I'm already in the midst of a general election that hasn't started, is that part of our responsibility is to map voter suppression for 2022. We have never seen these new laws in operation on a statewide level. And so our campaign is raising the resources we need to be everywhere, to understand what does voter suppression look like in a suburban under-resourced community that is largely of color versus a rural community that is isolated and has been fighting over whether they have one or two precincts. We want to be everywhere and

understand it. And we are so proud of the organizations that are on the ground that are doing the hard work of educating voters. But we also have to map it out so we know how to circumvent the challenges for the November election. And that is why this is going to be one of the most expensive elections in Georgia history. This is not simply about electing me or Reverend Raphael Warnock, one of our extraordinary senators. It's about electing two people who understand at the most visceral level what voter suppression looks like, but who have both demonstrated a very strong commitment to defeating it. Because to your point, we know that voter suppression requires education

as an antidote, but the most effective response is voter turnout. It is a lie to say that increased turnout means there is no suppression. That is again, like saying that because more people are in the water, there are no sharks. The sharks are still there, but if more of us get into the water, if we know where they are, if we can get to the buoys, if we can navigate them. I'm going into a whole Jaws metaphor I didn't intend to lift up. When we do that, we get more people to the other side. And the more people who can get involved, and the more we want them to be engaged and enraged, not defeated. This is our state. We have the right to be heard regardless of party, regardless of who we vote for. And my mission is to ensure everyone has the right to vote. And my responsibility as a candidate is to make certain that when they go and vote, they vote for me. I have a response. Are you ready? It's going to be pretty painful.

Okay. We're going to need a bigger democracy. You know what I mean? I did that to all of us. You set it up. I knocked him down. Star Trek. It is my view that Star Trek VI, The Undiscovered Country, is the greatest Star Trek film ever made. I want to know

what you consider to be the best Star Trek film. And I want to ask if you are at least open to considering the possibility that it is Star Trek VI, even if it isn't currently your view.

I am always open to new ideas and new information. Okay. And I have enough respect for you to give you the benefit of every doubt that is flooding my mind in this moment. Okay. So what is your favorite Star Trek film?

Actually, I don't have one. I really love all of the Treks and it depends on what I'm in the mood for. You like the one where they find God? Do you like that one? Where God's just a kind of a kind of a kind of guy in that he's got a got a hologram going so you have to understand I also watch supernatural so I am more malleable in my willingness to accept different constructs than many are okay okay All right. See how I danced around that? That's pretty good. I felt political. I felt political.

Stacey Abrams, thank you so much for joining as always. I know the fundraising deadline for this quarter is coming up. So everyone out there, Stacey needs all the help that she can get to go against one of these two bozos. So get moving. Right here on Earth. Absolutely. StaceyAbrams.com, a terrestrial address that you can go to right now. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Take care. Thank you. All right. Before we go, we've got a lot of mailbag questions about what we're watching and reading. And since I know everyone's about to quit Twitter because Elon Musk just bought it,

we thought we'd offer some non-Twitter content recommendations for you all. But before we do that, do you guys want to talk about our new Twitter overlord for a second? I mean, I'm surprised he did it. I really am. I would have bet money that he would get bored and move on. That's a lot of money to buy a problem. It's a lot of money. And it's like, he's very leveraged. You know, he's getting all these loans against his stock. He's taken out other loans to fund other businesses. This is dicey for him. $44 billion. The best tweet I saw

was just someone that said, $44 billion for this? From Quinta Brunson. $44 billion for this. The amount it's going to cost him to service the debt on this deal is going to be massive. Also, just go fix climate change, man. We would all love you. Just keep focused on the one thing. You're not good at interpersonal stuff. That's what Twitter is. This is about a human-to-human issue.

That's not your thing. That's a good point. That isn't his thing. Not his forte. Go engineer some stuff. Some people are like, he's an idiot or whatever whatever i'm like no he's he's a he's a genius on on on certain areas i don't know about like yeah interpersonal communication is going to be a strong suit no i had a we john and i had a meeting with him once and uh we sat behind him in silence for five minutes while he uh hand-pecked at his emails he literally wouldn't turn to look at us this is so fucking weird i think that's cool and he's like tweeting about bill gates being pregnant what where did that come from he's a weird dude

he's a weird dude i'm sorry bill gates is pregnant yeah prepared the lead yeah that was his tweet yesterday um anyway look big deal you know my stance on this is i hope he shuts it down i think look i say this as a twitter addict we'll still we'd still all be better off we'd all be better off if tomorrow we woke up and there was no get on tiktok it's much more fun right the fun thing like the question is what will this mean for gab parlor truth social getter because a bunch of chuds put a lot of money into these things including yeah mr donald trump and there's a big question of whether trump will get back on soon, whether like Alex Jones will be allowed on. Like, how free is your speech, Mr. Musk? The most the most surprising thing development today was Donald

Trump telling Fox News, I'm not getting back on if Elon invites me back on because of because of Truth Social, which he hasn't been using either. He doesn't use it once. Yeah. I don't. Yeah, I don't. But yeah, that's that's not. You know, we don't really like anyone to own Twitter. You know, we don't want it to be public. We don't want it to be private. We don't want it to be owned by Elon Musk. We didn't like it when it was run by the previous group of libertarians.

Yeah, I mean, the fact that Twitter had a board and was a public company should have... That's probably like the most... The best you're going to get right there. And I do think that there's this there's this balancing act, right? Like, I don't think it's good if there's a big social media platform that that bullies people off because harassment and misinformation are tolerated. I think that's a terrible thing. At the same time, I do think we pay a political price when the most extreme and vicious and stupid and venal and unhinged members of the MAGA right are kind of hidden from the public sphere because it sanitizes the Republican Party. And I think we've all paid a

price for Trump and his kind of worst qualities being hidden from public view, mostly only manifesting at buffets during weddings at Mar-a-Lago, to which he wasn't invited. Like we are not, he is posing just as much of a threat without being as much of a public nuisance as he once was. So I am not, I don't know why anyone thinks that this is good for Republicans. I don't know why these Republicans are applauding themselves. I don't think anybody knows.

Even if there will be a change, who knows? It's just trolling. I also just think, yeah, I mean, I think what it teaches us is like, whether it's a public company with a board, whether it's a private company with an owner like Musk, like, you just can't count on the benevolence of corporations to figure out their moderation, their content moderation policies. If we really want to regulate these platforms because we think that they're public utilities, then we're going to have to pass some regulations or laws to do so. You can't just hope that a corporation is going to do it.

Elon has not thought deeply on these subjects clearly i watched that ted talk he did last week or two weeks ago where he talked about his thoughts on free speech he is like the hard question the big debates are on the edge cases buddy and he has not thought for one second he's like oh the algorithm will fix it no no it's not no it's not a it's not an easy fix smart people have failed for a very long time to figure this no it's not it's not a yeah it's not an easy fix smart people have failed for a very long time to figure this out it's hard even the ones who cared and tried uh all right what are you guys watching and reading huh i saw everything everywhere all at once over the weekends and it is fantastic i want to see that movie so badly go see it it is delightful and weird and goes in places you don't expect at all but also very sweet and nice family story.

Oh, that's awesome. You know, we had Adam Scott on Love It or Leave It before Severance came out. And he's like, I'm in this thing called Severance. And I said, what is it? He goes, it's kind of hard to describe. And it is hard to describe. But everybody needs to watch Severance. Why?

It's so fucking good. Has anybody in this room seen Severance? Anybody? Phoebe? Thanks, Elijah. It's excellent. It's excellent.

And the finale is like a perfect episode of television. We just finished We Crash last night. I love We Crash too. It was very fun. It's funny because I started We Crash and I remember after the first episode, I was like, I don't know. The dropout was really good. I don't think it's going to beat the dropout. But We Crash was a show that every episode got increasingly better and better and better. And by the end, I loved it.

I think what We Crash did was capture a certain tone and type of Silicon Valley bullshit that existed during that little time. Yeah, I love it. The cult of the founder, everything they said was genius. We grow, we bike. Like everything that was pitched was, they were given these giant checks by SoftBank or whoever and allowed to do anything.

I love it. Anne Hathaway was made to play that character. I love watching Anne Hathaway. I love, I love Jared Leto with that nose, with that schnoz.

I love the whole thing. It is so entertaining. Shout out Lee and Drew. You know what else was fun that I watched? Yeah, that's right, Lee. There's a documentary on Shout out, Lee and Drew. You know what else was fun that I watched? That's right, Lee. There's a documentary on Abercrombie and Fitch on Netflix right now.

Oh, is that good? It's really good. Alison Klayman did it. She did a bunch of great docs. Brilliant documentary maker. And it's a great snapshot in time of weird culture that we kind of were all high school era, maybe a little younger, a little older

when Abercrombie came up. Also, just an insight into how toxic that company was. I had no idea. Abercrombie & Fitch. I wonder. I had no idea. I wonder if my body image issues were a pizza, I wonder how many slices are Abercrombie & Fitch. You know what I mean?

I had the same sort of feeling. I think that place just fucked me up. I think that place fucked me up when i was a kid walking through the mall just jesus just insanely hot guys it was like am i even welcome here love it i i agree like watching it sort of brought me back in time to like you know being a middle school kid i mean who the fuck looks like that like some of the stores had literal naked humans standing out inside them like it ruled woods cologne yeah all the cologne i gotta watch the music there's this um there's this reality show on hulu now uh keeping up with the kardashians no boy really is that where you are yeah are you watching i'm always watching it we know what we know where it came from you know what i'm yeah i'm in i'm gonna watch the whole season i can't well you realize

because like i never watched i probably watched five episodes total in my life of of kardashians just because they were like happen to be on right and you watch it now after like all of the other reality tv and you're like oh yeah these are the people that basically invented reality tv i get it oh this is it this is the this is the um you know the the source code this is the source this is where it all came from right this is what it's this is at the heart of the pyramid wouldn't it be like the real real world well that's sort of like the modern era some say jeopardy some say jeopardy any books anyone reading anything uh by the way you're getting fact check hard in the slack now john it's not no longer we're no longer keeping up.

Just call the Kardashians. Yeah, I thought about that. Unbelievable. Troubling. I read A Prayer for Owen Meany my senior year of high school. I don't really remember it, but I read that then. Same. I just read The New Czar by Stephen Lee Myers.

It's about Putin. It's pretty good. Oh, I am halfway through because I just interviewed the journalist Peter Pomerantsev for Offline, who wrote a book called Nothing is True and Everything is Possible about Russia. Like when he was there for 10 years in Moscow as a reality TV producer, speaking of reality TV. And it's sort of about Putin's Russia right before 2014, right before the invasion of Crimea. It's an excellent book. You would like it, Tommy. Yeah, I'll check it out.

I'm catching up on the season of Drag Race right now. it's an excellent book you would like it Tommy yeah I'll check it out I'm catching up on the season of Drag Race right now and the but it just

the finale just happened and my friend Tyler spoiled it just he just tweeted he just tweeted the winner of the season as it happened

yeah Tyler come on come on Tyler Ronan's gonna be a judge oh yeah Ronan's gonna be a judge on the new All Stars I saw that on Twitter I was like what is going on

that was a secret for so long yeah Ronan judge so to be a judge on the new All-Stars. I was like, what is going on? That was a secret for so long. Yeah, Ronan judged. So the next season of All-Stars are all winners. You've got just an incredible lineup of queens and Ronan judged. And it was because Ronan was going to judge, we're like, oh, we got to catch up. And that's when we got like super, super into Drag Race

because like he was going to be on Drag Race. And we actually didn't even watch. We just like, we started like crushing old seasons. Youinged recently right I'm saying this we started and just so that he understood more about it and then we just became just full addicts that's cool speaking of addicts I'm reading um naked lunch by William S Burroughs sort of like a that's a classic it's a classic when is that from 59 yeah it's real uh about like a heroin addict running around like 10 years do we think

this segment is working I don't know are we still doing the pod I think wow I was just sort of looking off into I thought like anyway thank you to Stacy Abrams thank you to Stacy Abrams thank you to Stacy Abrams thank you to Mark Meadows for all the texts thank you to Elon for supporting our tweets. Sending everyone

into a tizzy today. May the algorithm look fondly upon Crooked Media. Thanks to our staff for reminding me that it's the Kardashians and not keeping up

with the Kardashians. As you can tell, I'm a real connoisseur of this kind of stuff. Who needs to keep up here, John? Yep. You. Bye, everyone.

The pod is over. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner-Bernstein. Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montu. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.