Pod Save America - “Organize the rage.” (LIVE in Charelston)

Episode Date: February 8, 2019

We like Stacey Abrams’s speech more than Trump’s. Virginia’s political scandals throw control of the statehouse into question. The Democratic presidential field takes shape. And Jaime Harrison joins Jon, Jon, Tommy, Dan, and Brittany Packnett live on stage in Charleston, South Carolina to announce his exploratory committee to challenge Senator Lindsey Graham.

🎵 It's good to be back on the road. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. Hey, y'all. I'm Brittany Packnett. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Dutour. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On the show tonight, we have the former chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party, Jamie Harrison.

He may have some news to share with us. We're also going to talk about all the latest in 2020 news. But first, I want to ask you all what you thought of the State of the Union on Tuesday. That's what I thought. A nice hand clap for Whittle Donald. For those of you listening at home, Brittany did the now famous Nancy clap. So CNN's Van Jones, who famously said that Trump's first joint address to Congress was the moment he became president, said the following after Tuesday night's speech.

Quote, I saw this as a psychotically incoherent speech with cookies and dog poop. Dan, what do you think Van meant by that? Dan, what do you think Van meant by that? And if you're not sure, maybe go with, what do you think the White House strategy was behind that speech? My favorite part about this, for all the people listening at home, is to look at the look on Lovett's face when he heard this for the first time as we're sitting here right now. I heard that for the first time, too.

I read my briefings. What a beautiful metaphor from Van Jones. The man is, he paints with words. I like Van Jones. And I know we know exactly what he meant. Go on, Dan. Dan's going to tell us. Another way of saying what Van said, less colorfully, is that Trump gave two speeches instead of one.

He couldn't decide whether he wanted to be a unifier or an asshole, so he decided to do both. I mean, he couldn't avoid being an asshole. Kind of table stakes. I mean, I guess, why do you think he went with that strategy? Do you think it has something to do with looking ahead to 2020? We know that the State of the Union address that the president delivers the year

before his re-election is usually a preview of that message for the re-elect. I know it is always dangerous to ascribe strategy to anything Trump is doing because as we know from having worked on many State of the Unions together,

like it is a result of a rigorous, well-run, organized process in every other White House other than this one. And so, like I'm sure this is a product of chaos. But it does, I think, speak to the tremendous political challenge Trump faces in 2020. Which is, he needs... That everyone hates him?

That's half true. Sorry. Don't applaud. We're at about 60% of the country. Not enough people here hate him, all right? So get it together. Which is, Trump has two challenges, right? He has to keep his base ferociously behind him.

And he has to continue to throw them the same red meat that he threw them throughout the election. And that means continuing to attack immigrants, demonize people, make racist statements. That is a necessary component of strategy. But that in and of itself is unlikely to be enough to win. their component of strategy. But that in and of itself is unlikely to be enough to win. And so he also has to convince some of, some, not all of, not most of, some of the 60% who hate him to choose him over the Democrats. So he was trying to do two things at once. Those things may be incompatible. And what will ultimately happen is we'll see a 2020 strategy, which is keep his base fired up and try to nuke the Democratic nominee to the point where new voters, infrequent voters stay home.

Yeah. So there was another preview of a potential 2020 message from Trump. Right after Trump talked about supporting the overthrow of Venezuela's socialist president, he said, quote, Here in the United States, we are alarmed by new calls to adopt socialism in our country. Tonight, we resolve that America will never be a socialist country. Tommy, is that an argument that should worry Democrats? Yeah. I mean, first of all, Venezuela is not collapsing because of a socialist ideology. It's a corrupt petro-state run by morons. It has nothing to do with Medicare for All. No, it has nothing to do with Medicare for All. No, it has nothing to do with Medicare for All. Or a Green New Deal.

Yeah, it's a Green New Deal, and they steal all the oil, and the price of oil collapsed since 2013, but whatever. So, I mean, I think if you went to the average American and said, do you want to live under a socialist government, that probably wouldn't poll that well for Democrats. But actually, I'm sorry, among Democrats, it would poll pretty well. The country writ large, it's not a winning message. But I think when you unpack that a little bit and you say, do you want universal health care or Medicare for all? Medicare for all polls at 70 percent

in the country, according to a recent poll. Or if you say, talk about ways to reduce economic inequality. I think those are very popular proposals. So, you know, he wants to label Democrats as socialists and make this another way to scare us away from AOC or something, I guess. Although I don't think that's a winning battle for him anyway. But, you know, when you look at what the policies they're putting in place, he gives that speech. And then the next day, the CFPB announces that they're going to roll back restrictions on payday lenders, which is loan sharks that last year charged $5 billion worth of fees to the poorest people in the country,

the most vulnerable people to bankruptcy, going to debt, to having a medical emergency where they need some extra cash. And so they're harming all these people that they're trying to scare at the same time. So I don't really think it's an effective strategy, but it's also not an effective strategy to say you're going to give a unifying message in your speech

and then call Chuck Schumer a nasty son of a bitch at a reporter lunch an hour before. Everything they do is discordant. Donald Trump is a little bit, you know, let's say you're about to, it's a tense family reunion and there's an old feud about Uncle Nick denting Aunt Marie's car. And right before you go in, you say to Uncle Nick, Uncle Nick, please don't bring up the car thing again. Just like all you have to do is not bring up the car thing again. And they have the whole meal, and everybody's getting along, and then the dessert's coming down,

and somebody mentions a car, and then he's just like, I mean, look, this peach pie is nice, but it'd be nicer if Aunt Marie had indented my fucking car! That's Trump trying not to insult Chuck Schumer. I like the way you landed that plane.

We were trying to figure out where we were going, yeah. So, Brittany, Trump also spent a lot of time taking credit for economic growth and low unemployment. He, you know, and in doing so, delivered sort of the traditional incumbent president message of, you know, you're better off than you were. Don't want to change horses in midstream. Maybe you think I'm vulgar and awful, but don't you feel pretty good about the economy? How do you think Democrats should respond to that?

I think we should respond, I don't know, with the truth. I don't know, with the truth. We should point to what happened in the eight years before him that actually allowed the economy to exist in the way that it is. We should point to the fact that it really doesn't matter how well he can cut and paste a speech. His actions have spoken pretty loudly. And the economy that he wants to secure is not for the rest of us. The kind of economy that he wants to secure is for him, his friends, the folks at Mar-a-Lago. So I think all we have to really do is tell the truth. The good news is that the truth is on our side. Yeah. I mean, yeah, like it's true that the unemployment rate is low, but it's also true that people's main source of economic anxiety today is not necessarily the fact that they don't have a job.

It's that they're working two jobs, three jobs. Wages aren't keeping up. Health care costs are through the roof. And this is a guy who tried at every turn to rip away people's health care. What Tommy just said, undermining consumer protections. He just had a government shutdown that hurt millions of people. I mean, the fact that in 2019, people who are fully employed

were standing in bread lines should be enough to tell us exactly what he thinks of everyday Americans. Right, right. So, finally, the best part of the State of the Union, the Democratic response from Stacey Abrams. Finally, the best part of the State of the Union, the democratic response from Stacey Abrams. I think it's safe to say we all enjoyed her speech.

So I guess my question is, why? What about Stacey Abrams' speech did you guys find most compelling? I mean, I could just listen to her talk all day. The delivery is great. There's just a warmth to her, and it feels like she's talking with you and not speaking at you. And I think that she started with a story about her father and her biography

that was compelling and interesting. I mean, I think if I were to step back and brutally score the speech, I think that the challenge of the speech like that is you feel like you have to touch on a lot of issues, but you have, you know, she had 10 minutes, he had 90 minutes. So you give short shrift to a few things, but I think like she did that very, very well within the confines of that structure. So she just, she's just good at it. I mean, as the resident expert on black women, I am really grateful for her leadership always.

I think that Senator Schumer selecting her was a reminder as we go into 2020 about how important black women are to the Democratic base. But even beyond that, I mean, I personally was grateful because so far Black History Month, by the way, happy Black History Month. So far, Black History Month has been like four days of blackface, the State of the Union, Liam Neeson's weird interview and Stacey Abrams. She's all we have so far. She looked flawless. Hair was popping. Lipstick matched the suit, and her words actually match her work. Like, she got up there and talked about the importance of everyone having the full

access to the right to vote, and when she left that podium, she went right back to her work with verified action and trying to ensure that all Georgians have their full access to the right to vote. So it was, like, amazing to see someone in just in 10 minutes actually show up as the person that they say they are and do the work that they say they're going to do. One of the things that I think Democrats have struggled with is having an argument that goes to the core of Trumpism, right? Like you can say all kinds of bad things about the things Trump does or the things he says, but what he represents.

And I thought what Stacey Abrams did in that speech was to speak to the power of diversity, who we are as a people makes us stronger in a way that I haven't heard a lot of Democrats talk about in the context of Trump. And I thought that was powerful in the moment, and it also provides a blueprint to the people who are running in 2020

for how you speak to what makes us so uncomfortable about Trump that too often is not talked about because we're distracted by the wall and the tweets and the absurdity. Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I think we've often talked about how you balance this justifiable rage against Donald Trump and what the Republican Party have done with the need to be optimistic. And this one line that she had, in this time of division and crisis, we must come together and stand for and with one another. America has stumbled time and again on

its quest towards justice and equality, but with each generation, we have revisited our fundamental truths, and where we falter, we make amends.ends I was like that is a message right there and that sort of like brings the whole thing together And I will also second Tommy on just the delivery like she has mastered the ability to be both conversational and Strong and inspiring at the same time which is very hard because you have speakers who are good at one-on-one Conversation kitchen table site and you have people who can do big rally speeches and she could do both of those at the same time with that speech, and that is very, very effective. I think she is incredibly compelling. I'll be honest, like, I think that her story is incredibly compelling, but I think to Dan's point, like, I think that

there was a lot of really good language in the speech, but I think that democratic words are falling, like, she was, She is more compelling a figure than the speech that she gave. That was my honest reaction to it. And I think one of the great struggles we have is how do we match someone willing to make things up, use incredibly outlandish language, talk about caravans.

I mean, Donald Trump talks in technicolor lies and they are vivid and they are awful. And I think one of the things that's hard for Democrats is to be honest and truthful and tell a story in a compelling way that can compete with those awful words. And I think Stacey Abrams is the kind of figure who can do it. I think there are moments in that speech where she does do it, but I still think one of the great challenges for all of us is to figure out how to rest the microphone from Donald Trump with the story we tell. And I think we're on our way,

but I think it's also, we're so desperate for someone to be great that we embrace it when we see the promise of it, but I still think there's a lot of work to do. All right, let's move from a happy topic to one that is far more depressing. Virginia is a shitshow right now. Governor Ralph Northam is still refusing to resign after the surfacing of his med school yearbook page,

which featured a photo of a man in blackface next to a man dressed as a KKK member. Northam first apologized on Friday for appearing in the photo, but he has since denied he's the person in the photo, but then also admitted that he once put shoe polish on his face to impersonate Michael Jackson in a dance contest. Every time I read a sentence like that, I'm just like, what the fuck?

Meanwhile, Democratic Attorney General Mark Herring, second in line for the governorship, admitted that he too once wore blackface to a fraternity party when he was 19. Anybody in Virginia putting shoe polish on their fucking shoes? You know what? You can applaud all you want, but...

It's a fair question. I want the ghost of Sally Hemings to come back and snatch all the shoe polish from the state. No, just walk around with dusty shoes. It's the safest thing for us. Matt, black shoes are fine. Look, I wish I was done with all the misdeeds, but I have more to go. So Herring also apologized.

And then the man next in line to replace Northam, Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax, is facing an allegation that in 2004 he sexually assaulted a woman named Vanessa Tyson, who released a very detailed statement on Wednesday describing the encounter with Fairfax that began as consensual but quickly turned into assault. As if things couldn't get worse, the fourth in line to the Virginia governorship is Kirkland Cox, the Republican Speaker of the House of Delegates. Brittany. Whose name they picked out of the House of Delegates. Brittany.

Whose name they picked out of a bowl. Yes, yes. Who was only there because there was an election decided by a coin toss. He got bingo. Yes. Should all three of these men resign, what do you think? Okay, so the first thing that we have to establish

is that not only is Virginia on fire, but we should have seen this coming, right, with Virginia. Monticello, Sally Hemings, we could have seen this coming. Seriously, though, I was reading an op-ed earlier that asked, I think, a fundamental question, and the Democrats rallied around Christine Blasey Ford. Are we going to do the same for Dr. Vanessa Tyson? And I think that we have to demand a full investigation. I think we have to believe women. I think that just because these folks are on our side of the aisle doesn't mean that the rules change. And whether it's the black face or an accusation of sexual assault, the promise that we have of our moral fortitude is that we have never become the evil that we are fighting, and we can't begin to do that now.

Yeah. I mean, so some people now are saying that, you know, Herring's apology has been the most heartfelt, and he volunteered this information. I think a statement was just released. Tommy, you were saying this by? Virginia Legislative Black Caucus. The Legislative Black Caucus in Virginia, which said,

Fairfax and Herring shouldn't resign yet. Northam should. Fairfax investigation for sure. And then Herring, they want to hear more from him. Like, do you think there's a possibility that, you know, if Herring continues to apologize, and it seems heartfelt enough that there is a path for redemption to him, maintaining public office? I just don't believe people should get something for nothing. So if you're going to keep your office, I want to know what you are going to do specifically for the most

marginalized Virginians. I want to know what you're going to do for folks who are returning from incarceration. I want to know what you're going to do for folks living in poverty. I want to know what you're going to do for people of color. I want to know what you're going to do for the black community in Virginia besides just apologizing. Like, if you get to keep your job just by saying sorry a bunch of times, I don't think that's enough. I think that's right. And then, like, a bunch of times, I don't think that's enough. I think that's right. And then, say all three of them resign.

How do we avoid handing Virginia over to the Republicans in a year where there's going to be a presidential campaign, it's a redistricting year, millions of Virginians voted for Democratic governance, Northam just expanded Medicaid to 400,000 people. Like, what do we do about that? There's been a lot of discussion about what appropriate path can be taken that deals with these specific situations

but doesn't hand the state over to Republicans. And that is not, this is not McConnell-esque cynical power grab. It is a fact that the state of Virginia elected an entirely Democratic ticket. And for the simple fact that, as Brittany pointed out, a man who is only in his job because someone picked a Republican name out of a hat would then get to be their governor is a disservice to the people of Virginia who voted, millions of whom showed up for the first time, or many of whom showed up for the first time to vote in 2017. And so I think there has to be some process to figure this out. One way this

could happen is you could end up with a new election for lieutenant governor, which would allow the people of Virginia to decide instead of just essentially a coin flip. Because I think it's important, we have to recognize what is incredibly important here is that democratic governance in Virginia has made a huge difference in people's lives. You mentioned the expansion to Medicaid, former Governor McAuliffe restoring rights to formerly incarcerated folks.

A lot of really important things have happened that would all be reversed the day you had a Republican governor with a Republican assembly. So put aside redistricting and the allocation of congressional seats in the future. Right now, do the people of Virginia get to have leadership that reflects the things they care about and voted for? And how can we figure that out while handling appropriately these three very offensive, concerning situations. I mean, we campaigned with all three of them, and it's

incredibly depressing and sad and enraging on every level, but the next step, it should not just be that because these three people made mistakes in their lives at some point, or in the case of Justin Fairfax, it's something that should, if the investigation were to find these

allegations to be true, should face the appropriate consequences, that they should end up with a Republican governor that they did not vote for. And I think that's, and like, what we're witnessing right now, and you're saying, you know, it's Virginia, like, clearly the politics of everyday people in Virginia, at least the electoral politics, have changed and moved faster than the old guard of

politicians that they have elected that are in power, right? And that's true at the upper levels with maybe Northam and Herring, people like that. But we should also remember people like Jennifer Carroll Foy and Danica Rome and some of these delegates that won. Virginia is changing. It has changed faster than a lot of the politicians that are still there right now, and that's the problem. And that doesn't mean that there's a lot of the politicians that are still there right now. And that's the problem. And that doesn't mean that there's a lot of people, like you said, in Virginia who deserve Republican governance because they stood up in 2017 and said, we absolutely don't want that. We want Medicaid expansion. We want rights to the formerly incarcerated.

When the scandal first broke, I think people were substantively outraged. They were, I think, a lot of white people were shocked. A lot of black people were not shocked. Not at all. There was general disgust, and there was a sense that Northam should go, but I think, being honest, there was also an understanding that, look, we can do the right thing here and hold the governorship. And people called on Northam to go very quickly. And the fact that this scandal has now engulfed the entire administration has put people in this position of really asking themselves this question, what do I value more? Do I think it's worth it to have these people step down because it's the right thing to do if it means losing these seats? And I do think it's always like,

if the outcome of trying to stand against racist photos and a racist culture uh that allowed people like this uh to conceal this sort of this racist culture for so long if the culmination of that is a bunch of policies that advance systemic racism at the hands of politicians who do not care about the outcome of this scandal and only see it as a means of power i think that would be incredibly dangerous. And so, like, to Dan's point, I think it's okay. We can be practical. It's okay to be practical. Look, I agree with you on the practicality point. It's just so profoundly fucked up. Like, Democrats, I mean, you all know that. Democrats assume in national races every year

African-American turnout at a given level. And if we're being honest, don't usually do what they should be doing in terms of outreach, investment in communities, organizing. And when you see lower levels of African-American turnout like we did in key states this last cycle, they're like, wow, what happened? And I think it's because deep down, a lot of, a lot of voters think that like, there probably isn't that much difference between

the candidates, right? And like they, there's a lot of people that don't trust the Democratic side any more than they trust the Republican side. And in an instance like this, it's just, if we don't take really affirmative steps to show that we are different and we are better, then I think that there could be a much bigger, longer-term problem in terms of, like, trust among African-American voters. I think we actually have to take the steps to show that, to, like, actually be different, right? Not just to show that we're different. Because let's be clear, these pictures were from 1984. That's the year I was born. And I'm not that old most days. I think that there is a moment in front of us to remember just how recent a lot of this history is and just

how real racial terror is still to this day for so many people. And that there's nothing funny about it. There's nothing cavalier about it, and if we don't take it seriously now, it will continue to persist. My solution, however, is just to replace everybody with black grandmothers. Because if anybody gets out of line, Mabel will send you to bed with no dinner,

and nobody will come back to Session Trippin'. Trust me. Trust me. All right, well, I thought we were going to have to end on a down note, but Brittany solved the problem. So we're going to do some more news later, but first, we have a little game. Now it's time for a game called OK Stop.

We'll roll a clip, and the panel can say OK Stop at any point to comment. Remember Glenn Beck? He was that guy who would cry all the time while writing the word rationality on a chalkboard. Well, he has his own channel now, and Sean Spicer stopped by to give us his thoughts on the State of the Union. Spicer, good friend of mine. Not the fake Sean underscore Spicer Twitter.

You can walk. You can walk. This is what we do here. You got the real Katrina Pearson. This is the Katrina Pearson. I think you should get more her. With Trump, look, I was with the RNC. I was agnostic.

I didn't care who won. Hi, Spicer. I love you. Okay, stop. I think Sean may have been over-served. And here's the thing. As we watch this clip, there's a part of me that thinks, is this right to highlight this person who went on television in this state,

clearly grappling with the turmoil of the decisions he's made that led him to the life that he lives? And then I think about a film called The Favorite. Let's continue. Sean Spicer may not know this. You may not love Spicer's politics. I've never loved your politics. I've never had. What are you talking about, Paulie?

You have the biggest heart of anyone I know. I do. But here's my point. But don't tell me you're agnostic at the RNC. You guys told Trump not to run. That's not true. My point is I'm agnostic. I wanted to win and beat Hillary.

Katrina Pearson, who was on here just before I ever was there. Hold on. Okay, stop. I just want you all to know if Donald Trump wins again, I'm going to start doing this. I'm just going to get really drunk,

book myself on CNN and MSNBC, and just start doing this. That's going to be me. I'm not going to do the whole, like, I'm going to move out of America. No, I'm just going to get hammered and go on cable. That's it. I'll be living in New Zealand, so I'll check you out. Stop.

Like, listen to me. She was with him when no one was with him. There's a whole discussion about who was with Trump at the beginning. What kind of hat is that in the man drinking the beer? For those of you listening at home, it looks like he folded a horse saddle over his head. It's obviously Bane. Oh, Bane. Tommy, I thought you were going to okay stop that because of the chyron,

which just says, if you can't see it at home, bowling to Spicer, you have the biggest heart. Period. Bowling to Spicer, you have the biggest heart. Period. I also believe, does he have an enlarged heart? Is this a medical? I believe they're at the Trump Hotel. I think this was shot at the Trump Hotel. medical? I believe they're at the Trump Hotel.

I think this was shot at the Trump Hotel. Yeah, it was a party at the Trump Hotel. So this is the beating, molten heart. Two things. Hardcore. With everything that's bad. Okay. Who's not?

Here's my thing. The president keeps winning people over through addition not subtract okay stop nope no i think he has a fever i think he's got that thing that that that cold that's going around and that descendants the president keeps he keeps winning people over with addition. First of all, who wins anyone over through subtraction? Addition is the way to go. If you want to add, you know what I mean? You can't.

That's it. You're going to want to add them. There's no alternative there. Actually, he's losing negative people. And that's what this game is about. All right. I have to get something very, very, very important out there. Okay.

This is about your moisturizer. I think the president's going to... Okay, stop. I just want to make sure everyone heard that. I have to get something very, very important out there. He goes, is this about your moisturizer? Why, yes, it is. For America, for working class

Americans, you talked about tonight and the idea that I could have been played a small part in it. Okay, stop. Now, you guys, it would probably help to have the transcript. The transcript does say inaudible. So, they're in a bar

surrounded by a mob Of unruly drunk people And Sean is the one making a scene He's the guest It's so perfect So you're good with him? You guys left on good terms? Do you still stay in contact?

I talked to him last night Did you? I talked to him Donald Trump, that terrible person I hate The reason I drink now Because of the inner, all the time. All the time. Hey, do you want me to sign a copy of my book?

They're only a dollar at the bookstore because it's so popular. Do you know that I'm the only White House press secretary that people don't want to hear from? It's supposed to be a cool job I wanted since I was press secretary that people don't want to hear from. It's supposed to be a cool job. I wanted this since I was a kid. And then they say, you can do it, but there's a catch. There's a catch. It's for this other person. And it's like, oh, is it Jeb? It's the building guy with the yellow building man. And I said, what could happen?

And now I'm here with you. It's awesome. Yeah. He said, when are you coming back to the White House? And I told him, I said very clearly, Mr. President, I love you. I love this White House. But you're never getting me back. What's next for Sean Spicer?

You can go to SeanSpicer.com. No. Do you see what I mean about this trash Black History Month? Do you see what I mean? This is what is happening. We're trying to celebrate our damn selves in the shortest month of the year, and this is what we get. SeanSpicer.com. SeanSpicer.com.

SeanSpicer.com. It's like an evil anti-black history month advent calendar. We collectively decided we're starting over in March. You open up the little window, and it's Sean Spicer. I went to SeanSpicer.com after I watched this. His most recent event was five months ago. The whole thing is really sad. You know what?

You don't pity him for a goddamn minute. And that's OK Stop. Wow. Looks like Levin has a new Sean Spicer impression. And it was more intelligible than that clip we just watched. I like that. Comes out of nowhere. All right.

One year from this month, South Carolina will hold the very first Southern primary of the 2020 campaign. We have a very large and still growing Democratic field of candidates who have already been campaigning here. The first South Carolina poll is out from Firehouse Strategies. It was out today with Joe Biden in the lead at 36%, Kamala Harris at 12%, and close behind in descending order Bernie Sanders, Cory Booker, Elizabeth Warren, Beto O'Rourke, and Amy Klobuchar.

No one else broke 1%, and about 32% of voters have no preference. So very early, wide open field. Who was that poll from? It's Firehouse Strategies and Optimist. Firehouse Strategies? It's a Republican PR. Well Optimus. Firehouse Riders?

Republican PR. Decision Desk is like the Optimus one, so they're real. It's the first people who led Marco Rubio to lose to Ben Carson in the presidential race. Hey man, I just read the data. We've all been talking about 2020 on our respective pods, but

since this is the first time we're all on stage together, I thought we'd kind of have a kickoff conversation about what we're all looking for in a Democratic nominee and how we can help everyone else out there who's trying to make a decision. So to start with, what are the most important qualities you all are looking for in a candidate? So I think there are three things, right? The first is, can they do the job? And that is not a question of experience, like traditional experience or resume. It's do they have the depth, the intellectual curiosity, the humility to make a dozen terrible decisions

every single day, really hard choices. Because we know we've been there all day long. You're forced to choose to make really hard decisions. The second is, can they inspire people to get involved? Because the only math that works for Democrats is to inspire people who've never voted before, who have sat out previous elections to come out and vote. Not winning people over by subtraction?

Yes. And third thing is winning people over by addition. And the third thing is, you have to be able to, for a Democrat to, because we have an electoral college on a popular vote, Democrats can only win if they turn out the Democratic base and win over a good number of independents in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,

to pick three random states on the map. And so you have people to do both. And that, to me, is not a question of ideology. It's not saying we need a centrist, because my personal belief is that a progressive, populist message is the best way to win over independents. But that, to me, are the three things that I think our winning candidate must be able to do.

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, similarly, I want a candidate who, when they get asked about a really hard issue, you get the sense that the first time they thought about that issue and what they would do about it wasn't three months earlier when their campaign advisors got together in some room and, like, schemed out the best policy idea, right? Like, I worked on a campaign like that in 2004 when I worked for John Edwards, and it had that vibe of like,

okay, how do we position him? Barack Obama in 2008, when something hard or crazy would come up in the news, you'd go to him, and he would have like a core set of beliefs that informed everything we did for the next 10 years. Yeah. And then I agree with Dan. I don't just want someone that can get people out to vote, but also inspire a little bit of hope and restore a little bit of faith that government doesn't have to be as wretched as it's been for the last three years now, I guess. Because I do think we're fighting Trump and Trumpism and demographics and all sorts of challenges,

but we're also fighting, as Democrats, a total lack of faith in government to be able to do what it's supposed to do. And when that happens, we inherently lose because we think that government should be there to help people. Well, and, you know, I know that we are all, hopefully we are all fairly clear, and I've been hearing from a lot of people that they are clear, that whomever the nominee is, they will get behind, right? That they will push and they will prod that person to make sure that they are the best possible, that they will get behind them because they understand what's at stake.

But before then, now is the time for us to get the very best our party has to offer, which means somebody, to your point, the very best our party has to offer, which means somebody, to your point, who is not just concerned with beating an overgrown Cheeto with no personality, but who legitimately has a vision for what's possible and not just inspires people to get on board with it, but actually helps people figure out how. Because that is the question that I get everywhere I go is how do I get started? I want to make a difference. How do I actually get go is how do I get started I want to make a difference how do I actually get involved how do I get started we need a leader that can actually get people to work on the right things yeah I think there's a I think there's two competing and contradictory ideas that we have to kind of keep in our minds at the same time. One is, we need a candidate who has a gut and intellectual understanding of the cultural rot

and political rot that allowed someone like Donald Trump to get within 500 miles of our fucking White House. That's the first thing. But at the same time, I also think it's worth thinking about who would be the person I would want to be president if Donald Trump never came along. We have to let him in and we have to keep him out of our heads. And it's really hard

because he's everywhere all the time. But to me, when I look at this field of candidates, I just think, I don't want to think about the fact that they're going to be standing across from Donald Trump. I don't want to think about the fact that he's going to be launching a million obscene attacks every single day. Because as Dan said earlier, the only way Donald Trump wins is by absolutely destroying the Democrat and destroying our faith in the process. I want to think, who's the person that I would get behind? Because I just believe that they would be a great president in a system that was working better that hadn't been undone and undermined by this person who

came along. And those are two hard things, right? You have to understand what made Trump possible without allowing Trump to be central in how you make that decision. And just one other just little point I'd make is also in our political culture, there is this conflation between what we want and what each of us wants, between what's polling well and what's popular and what Democrats as a group want and what we as individuals want out of our candidates. And I think because the news treats us all like observers instead of participants, it's easy to fall into that trap and think, you know, I think we need somebody who is getting behind this issue rather than, here's what I want. I want single payer or I don't want single payer.

I want a Green New Deal or I care about, whatever it is. I think like as a group, resetting for ourselves and reminding ourselves that we are voters and we are making a choice for ourselves, not trying to game out what other people want is a helpful thing to do. what other people want is a helpful thing to do.

No, look, I always think about, I've told this story a million times, but I always think about when, you know, it looked like the Affordable Care Act was dead and Barack Obama's, many of his advisors said, you know, you shouldn't keep pushing this because if you do, you're going to lose re-election. And he said, I don't care if I lose re-election. I came here to get something done and I believe in this. And so I'm going to keep doing it. We're going to pass this bill. And if it means that I'm

a one-term president, then so be it. And I want to see a candidate run who believes in what they're talking about and the policies they're proposing so badly that they are willing to lose for them. That's actually what we deserve. That's what we deserve. That's actually what we deserve. Somebody with the guts and the courage and the imagination. And to what Lovett was saying too, this country is in a political crisis

and we've been in a political crisis since long before Donald Trump was president. We were in a political crisis most of've been in a political crisis since long before Donald Trump was president. We were in a political crisis most of the time Barack Obama was president because he could barely get anything done since we had a Republican party that decided they were going to obstruct him at every turn. And someone, a candidate, all of these candidates need to speak to what they intend to do about the political crisis that is a crisis of democracy at the heart of what's going on right now. And they need to tell us how they're going to pull us out of that crisis.

And that is something so much deeper than any one issue. It's deeper than the economy. It's deeper than race. It's deeper than cultural issues. It's deeper than all of that. It's about what this country stands for. And someone needs to stand up and tell us give the whole picture and so far i haven't you know i i i what what excites me about the field so far is i think like what we're looking for

in the ideal candidate like each of the candidates has a piece of it so far i've seen it in so many of the different candidates you want a frankenstein president yeah right exactly no but i don't see i haven't seen anyone put it all together just yet but but it's early and it's a long race, so hopefully it'll get there. So the other day, a Monmouth University poll asked a question about electability, and a lot of polls have done this too, so it's not just Monmouth. 56% of Democrats said they prefer someone who'd be a strong candidate against Trump, even if they disagree with that candidate on most issues. Just 33% say they would prefer a nominee who they be a strong candidate against Trump, even if they disagree with that candidate on most issues. Just 33% say they would prefer a nominee who they're aligned with on the issues,

even if that person would have a hard time beating Trump. Dan, what do you make of those numbers and this electability argument in general? Well, what I make of those numbers is pollsters are idiots. Because no shit, Sherlock. Would you rather have a president who's not Trump or someone you like in Trump's president? Well, obviously, we're going to say that. It's like if they ask you what you wanted in a car.

Do you want comfortable seats? Do you want a convertible? Do you want a car that drives? Like, that's what's going to win. So it's a dumb question. But, like, we are a nation of pundits. And activists in South Carolina and Iowa and New Hampshire drive a lot of the process,

and they do look at this with the prism of who is our best bet to beat Trump? And that's how people looked at John Kerry in 2004. It's how people looked at Mitt Romney in 2012. That's how these primary processes usually work out. The problem is people want electability, but they want to know who can win. But all the experts who are supposed to know the answer to that question have never been able to figure it out. So it is really a thing where people are going to have to go with their gut as to who is a candidate they best

believe in, because you're never going to answer the other question because it is an impossible thing to know yeah i also think questions of electability are they are gendered they are influenced by race and i think like i mean i say this all the time but like no one would have guessed that barack hussein obama would be followed by Donald fucking Trump. Right? And it's like, guess what? The country itself and the voters in this country did not change that much between those two elections. And so the idea that a whole bunch of people said Barack Obama wasn't electable, and then a whole bunch of people, including us, said that Donald Trump wasn't electable. Stop trying to figure out who the fuck is electable because you don't know.

You just don't know. If you think about, you know, like you worked for John Kerry in 2004. And John Kerry, who is a great American, he's a friend to a lot of people on the stage, was Obama's Secretary of State, but it was such a simple choice because it was done through a media prism,

was he was a war hero and a veteran. Therefore, he obviously is the best person to take on Bush during the post-9-11 period. And that's such a simplistic, stupid way of thinking about politics. And we have to resist that as voters, as pundits, as activists, as podcasters. Yeah. What are the upsides and what are the downsides of having such a big field of candidates? Content. Tommy? I mean, the upsides are that I think people have a real choice.

And I also think that a big field like that means they'll push each other on a lot of issues. I think there's a lot of hand-wringing in the media right now about the party getting pulled left, but I think if you're uh if you're a liberal this is the best opportunity in your lifetime of having a president that represents and believes the things you believe because donald trump seems wounded you have a big field with lots of progressive candidates and you can push them the way you want to go and i think medicare for all is the best example of that i mean the the is, God knows how votes split eight ways, and we never

will know, and, you know, just increases the uncertainty, but that's the process. I do think, though, it behooves us to make sure that we are asking questions and making critique of this large field in earnest. If your critique of a criminal justice platform only includes the black woman, you're wrong. If your critique of gendered issues only includes the black woman, you're wrong. If your critique of gendered issues only includes the women candidates, you're wrong. Like if your critique of people's platform on race and what you want to hear from candidates on race only includes the candidates of color, you're wrong. And there is an opportunity for us to push one another as we push the candidates so that we're engaging in a way that I think teaches us not just what we need to know going into 2020, but moving beyond that.

I think the other really important thing right now though is that like, to your point, we have a real opportunity to make a strong selection. And I wanna make sure that we are doing that in a way that actually allows for us to come together once that primary is chosen. Because in 2016, that did not happen. That was my next question.

I was going to ask, how worried is everyone about the potential in fighting? I am worried. I'm worried about everything. Everything is worth worrying about. This is the most important primary of our lives. There's never been a primary in which, you know, we're gonna choose one person from this field

and then that person will face Donald Trump, probably. Howard Schultz. But, you know, I think one thing that I've been just, it's hard to articulate, but I think one of the reasons I'm worried about infighting, one of the reasons I'm worried about tension is because undergirding this incredibly impressive field that actually aligns on a lot of key issues, there really is a broad consensus forming, and actually a lot of the fighting and attacks around issues are really trying to find places of disagreement and trying

to demonstrate that actually, even though they're all agreeing up here, when you look underneath, you find what they'll really do, right, is actually not as progressive, which actually speaks to the consensus that's actually forming up here. But the truth is, I think we're all a bit unmoored. You know, I think a lot of us are still shell-shocked by what happened in 2016, by our failure to fully understand how likely a scenario, or to fully appreciate just how much of a threat Donald Trump was in the run-up to his election, how hard it's been for the past two years to watch someone like that govern, to see how much damage he can do, to feel how powerless we were. And I think that uncertainty means not only do we feel this incredible pressure to make the right choice, I think a lot of us, if we're being honest, don't feel totally confident in our faculty to actually select the right person to face off

against Donald Trump. So I think one of the things that's important to keep in mind at the start is we're all on the same team. And the reason it's going to be hard, the reason it's going to be contentious, is because we care so much about winning together when it's all said and done. And even when we disagree. I think we're sort of in uncharted territories and sort of in the size of this field, and the normal things that we know of field, the influence of party officials, stakeholders, money, are less relevant in this modern age of politics. You can run

a campaign for cheaper than you used to be able to, because you can do things on social media and digital, and you can do things organically. So we can be in a situation where the person who wins the South Carolina primary wins it with 16% of the vote, right? And so there's two elements to that. Well, the positive one is traditionally the most divisive primaries are two-person primaries, right,

where you are either for Clinton. If you're for Clinton, you're definitely anti-Bernie. If you're for Bernie, you're definitely anti-Clinton. But it now becomes incumbent that the person may win the nomination and have to win over more than 80% of the rest of the Democratic electorate. And so that is going to be something that

will hang over this primary is the capacity of the person to do that monumental task that has really never been done before. And then we might have a third party independent bid. And Lovett wrote a really compelling op-ed about... The groan was for the subject of the op-ed, not the writer. No, Lovett wrote a really great piece-ed about... The groan was for the subject of the op-ed, not the writer. No, Lovett wrote a really great piece on Crooked.com

about why he endorses Howard Schultz. Because, you know, we need to meet in the middle on the key issues of our time. You know, he tends to be a contrarian, but we're like, go for it, man. He's a straight shooter, respected on both sides. Join me in the center. There's not a single policy you'll like

and we'll lose. So, here's our contribution to keeping the peace within the Democratic Party. In 2018, we worked with Swing Left to raise money for the eventual Democratic Congressional nominees in California, who went on, by the way, to beat all seven of the Crooked Seven.

in California, who went on, by the way, to beat all seven of the Crooked Seven. This year, we're teaming up with Swing Left to raise money for the eventual Democratic presidential nominee, and we're calling it the Unify or Die Fund. What do you guys... Logo, yes, no?

All right, here we go. You might get sued by the artisanal butcher shop we stole it from. You get it, right? Who cares? Keep going. So, 100% of every dollar you donate to Unify or Die will go right to the Democratic nominee immediately after the Democratic convention, which is the moment when that candidate will have spent most of their money in the primary

and will desperately need cash to compete with the billions and billions of dollars in attack ads from Trump, Republicans, and the rest. This is, it's very, very important. That's when the Democratic nominee needs money. So go to votesaveamerica.com slash unify and pitch in what you can, tell your family, tell your friends.

And let's make sure we keep our eyes on the ultimate goal. Taking that gavel from Paul Ryan's hands. We need one for getting Trump out of the White House. Oh, yeah, the White House one. Yes, yes. Yeah, the ultimate goal of getting Trump out of the White House. And, you know, maybe he'll finally be indicted. Maybe.

Cherry on top of that. Pass Medicare for All, send Trump to jail. This is both to remove Trump from office, and it's his legal defense fund. All right. When we come back, we'll have an interview with Jamie Harrison. All right, he's the former chair of the South Carolina Democratic Party and now the associate chair of the Democratic National Committee, Jamie Harrison. Hey, y'all. Jamie, thanks for being here. Thank you for having me.

All right. We have some important business we're going to do on stage a little bit later, but I want to start by finishing the conversation we just had on stage about 2020 in the South Carolina Democratic primary. The most important primary. Well, I can say this as someone who worked for Barack Obama. He wouldn't have been president without the South Carolina Democratic primary. Amen to that. So you're an activist here.

You're talking to activists. What are the Democratic primary voters here in South Carolina, what are they looking for in a 2020 candidate? I think they're looking for someone who's genuine, someone who's inspirational, someone who's hopeful, and someone who can beat Donald Trump. And a bunch of the candidates have been through here. I know you've been talking to all of them. I read in the New York Times you gave, Elizabeth Warren called you, you gave some advice about running here. What are you telling candidates about how to win in South Carolina?

Well, the first thing that I tell them is that you can't mail it in. And what do I mean by that? Meaning that you can't just send in staffers from other states. Just because you're a black woman from Tennessee you think oh well we can send her down and she can be the state director in South Carolina no that doesn't work they have different barbecue in Tennessee so so it doesn't translate easily you need to you know my grandmother is is always my gauge for things in politics.

And so if you go and knock on her door, she has a few questions for you. First, she says, well, she's looking out the window to peek and see what kind of car you're driving. Then second of all, she'll open the door and she said, well, who are you? Where are you from? And who are your people? Those that sense of commonality and building some kinship is really, really important. And so I'm looking for these candidates, not just to spend all their time in Iowa and New Hampshire, but to come here to South Carolina, to get to know the voters here in South Carolina,

have them ask the questions, because South Carolina looks like the Democratic Party. South Carolina looks like America. And it's important for them to really test their messages and to test their outreach in this state. And I know a bunch of them have been down here, some are coming this upcoming weekend. Is there anyone you've seen who has been impressive in what they're saying or how they're thinking about it or how they're organizing the state? Well, listen, you know, let me put this out. I'm a DNC officer so therefore whatever I say I am NOT endorsing anybody I'm not seeing anything between us you know there have been a number of candidates and I always say it this way there been a number of candidates that really been working hard

to get to know South Carolina to get to know the leaders in South Carolina the community leaders in South Carolina and hiring South Carolina, to get to know the leaders in South Carolina, the community leaders in South Carolina, and hiring South Carolina staff. And they're making great inroads in that. And so my encouragement for the other folks, those candidates who don't fit that description. But you know who you are. You know who you are. You need to step up your game. Because in the end of the day, it's going to be about the people who put the roots in the ground

and they water it and they plant it and they talk to it every now and then and they tend it and by February 29th it is a full-grown plant and that's really, really important. So like the chia pet strategy. Yes, exactly. You need a chia pet strategy. And so the traditional path has been Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina. And then South Carolina was always the launch pad into these, like Super Tuesday and these other huge multi-state primary days. This year, California has moved up. Yes.

And is right on the heels of South Carolina. Do you worry that that diminishes the influence? I don't. Partly, and I can tell it's not diminishing the influence because we've actually seen more candidates come to South Carolina now than they did in the entirety of 2016. I mean, Hillary and Bernie only came here a few times. But Corey, Kamala, and a number of them have been in South Carolina already three, four times. And I expect to see them here a lot. So I think it's really, really good, and it's good for our state. I think South Carolina is coming into its own as it relates to presidential primary politics, particularly on the Democratic side.

So, you know, having California come in just means South Carolina is that more important. Because in the end of the day, you know, South Carolina is on February 29th. Super Tuesday is then that three days later on March 2nd, that Tuesday. that Tuesday. Well, what's going to happen is the people who will come in first and second in South Carolina will get all of this free television publicity in that time, and voters are creatures of habit. They're going to look at who has the momentum, and many of them will say, well, I sort of like this person. They just won South Carolina, so maybe I need to vote for them. So I think South Carolina just becomes more significant because Super Tuesday is now Super Duper on Steroids Tuesday. So there's another election. Yes. In South Carolina in 2020. Yes, there is. Is there anything you would like to tell us about your plans for that election?

I agree. It is time for Lindsey Graham to come home. Listen, if you've never seen a black man blush, you just saw one right now. You know, I don't think I would have ever in my life, if you told me a few years ago that, Jamie, you will agree with George Will on something. Like, I would have, it was like, I would have been like Joe Wilson. You lie, right? I would have been like Joe Wilson. You lie, right?

But George Will, if you have not seen the op-ed that he wrote about Lindsey Graham that ran in the Washington Post recently, I mean, it just blows your socks off. But he called Lindsey Graham an opportunist, but he called him a political windsock. I never, ever want in my history to ever be known as a windsock, and definitely not as a political windsock. I never ever want in my history to ever be known as a windsock and definitely not as a political windsock. But I want you all to know, I mean, not that it's a preview because, you know, the newspapers are, you know. This is the first time we're making this news here. Yes. Yeah. So let me just tell you this. I will be announcing an exploratory committee to run for the United States Senate against Lindsey Graham. Thank you. Thank you.

You guys are awesome. Thank you. You guys are awesome. And I just want you to know this, that for me, this isn't about playing games. You know, right now, very soon, our house will add another little body to it. I grew up here in South Carolina, in Orangeburg, right down the road. The roads that you drive on, my grandfather helped to pave. My grandmother worked in the textile industry. My mother had me when she was 16 years old.

My life has been the American dream. I have lived the American dream, coming from one of the most impoverished places to actually now saying that I'm going to explore and run for the United States Senate. That only happens in America. That only happens in America. And when I think about some of the towns that I've gone through in South Carolina, and I know many of you have driven through these little towns and you see that they're shuttered, you see the downtown just, it looks, it's sad. I remember as a kid going through those same towns and they were vibrant. The problem that we have in South Carolina is that we have these little bastions of hope. I grew up in, of hopelessness rather.

I grew up in the area that they call the corridor of shame. I wouldn't want to be a senator representing a state like South Carolina that has a corridor of shame. And the thing that I'm writing about is not, and tweeting about, is not about the fact that the water in Denmark looks as brown as my shoe, or that the terrorists are killing our farmers or small businesses, or that four rural hospitals have closed in the state, or that there are babies being separated from their parents at the border. You know what our senator writes about?

It is the manner in which Roger Stone was arrested. You know what our senator cares about? It's his tea time with Donald Trump. It is time here in South Carolina that we have somebody that we send to Washington, D.C. that is looking at making sure that the doors of opportunity and the doors of that hope is still a part of the American dream, and it's vibrant right here in South Carolina. And so that is what I want to fight for. So I'm glad you brought up Lindsey Graham. And when Barack Obama was first elected and we were working in the White House,

Lindsey Graham was in the White House every day. He was in there to talk to Barack Obama about how he was going to help him pass immigration reform, he was going to help us pass the climate change bill, he was going to help Barack Obama close Guantanamo. Then some Republican senators lost some primaries, and we haven't seen that Lindsey Graham in a while no so and now Lindsey Graham went from someone who was said Donald Trump would be an embarrassment if he won to trying to muscle Don Jr out to get in the will and so my question is for someone who's

seen him all day listening in South Carolina. What is up with Lindsey Graham? Listen, I don't know. I don't know what they're feeding him or what's in the water in the Senate. But somebody please get him away from that bottle because there's something going on with him. I mean, listen, this is a guy in a two-year stint who called Donald Trump, what was it, a racist, bigoted, xenophobic, religious bigot, right? Like all of that. And now Donald Trump is his BFF. I mean, literally, if you look up like love on the phone and Donald Trump pops up and it has a little jingle or whatever, oh, there's my best friend forever, Donald Trump. I mean, it's just crazy. And those two things can't coexist. You can't think somebody's a racist bigot and then you want to

make sure you're golfing with them and you're having lunch with them and dinner with them. It says to me, hearing about Lindsey being at the White House during Barack Obama's time, is that this guy just wants to be relevant. He doesn't care about the people here in South Carolina. He just wants to be relevant. He wants to be in front of a TV camera. He wants to be in front of a microphone. That's fine. I can give you a TV camera and a microphone, Lindsey, and you can stay in your house in Seneca all damn year. I don't care. So, Jamie, it has been a while since South Carolina has elected a Democrat. A long time. Not this century, I think.

We've been in the wilderness for a long time. So help everyone here understand why this time could be different. Listen, one of the things that we really have to do, part of the problem that we have here in South Carolina is not just a problem that's unique to South Carolina. It's across the South. Nationally, the Democratic Party has just, you know, until recently, and I applaud Tom, who I work with at the DNC, because he has reinstated Howard Dean's 50-state strategy and started investing in Southern parties.

And that's how we won with Doug Jones in Alabama and a number of other houses. Joe Cunningham here. Joe Cunningham here, exactly. That's exactly right. And so what we have to do is we have to get our folks here energized again and give them some hope that Democrats can actually do it. And Joe actually did give us hope. But the second step of it is that we have to convince national Democrats

that they can't just leave us out here fighting by ourselves. You know, if you take a look at what happens is, and Republicans are very strategic, you know, they fight everywhere. Look at Massachusetts, Maine, Maryland. Blue states, right? Blue is of the blue states, but what do they have in common? Republican governors. That's because Republicans don't cede any territory to us.

But the Democratic Party, on the other hand, will say, well, South Carolina, we can't win. Alabama, we can't win. Mississippi, we can't win. Idaho and Kansas, we can't win. Alabama, we can't win. Mississippi, we can't win. You know, Idaho and Kansas, we can't win. And we'll just cede that over to the Republicans. And we only fight in these, you know, the marginal states or the swing states or blue states. Well, you know, those same red states are sending two U.S. senators to Washington, D.C. And the policies that those U.S. senators are voting on, the judges that they're voting on, have an impact on every single

person in this country. We can't cede any territory to them. We have to fight on these grounds, and they're good Democrats in the South, and we can win if they invest in us. Jamie, thank you so much, but before we let you go,

let's play a game. Oh, and let me tell you, my guys would kill me if I didn't say this. JamieHarrison.com, JamieHarrison.com, JamieHarrison.com. That was the test. You passed it. I'm glad I was here for that. Not SeanSpicer.com. No, no SeanSpicer.com.

No, no Sean Spicer documents. On April 12th, 1861, in the pre-dawn light, Captain George S. James of the South Carolina Artillery fired a single mortar, soared across the morning sky, and exploded over Fort Sumter, commencing the bombardment of Union forces, the first shot of the Civil War. Anyway, speaking of ineffective South Carolinians fighting a losing battle, on behalf of racist landowners, let's talk about Lindsey Graham.

Your senior senator was considered someone with right-wing views on many issues, but also a willingness to buck his own party and speak his mind. Sure, he was a floor manager for Clinton's impeachment when he was in the House, but if we're being honest, we've gotten more cool with that over time. He's affected from his party's denialism on climate change, for example. That is good. And yet, something changed when Lindsey Graham met Donald Trump. Donald Trump was like an older brother,

always bullying him and calling him names. But once Trump caught him stealing some of his old CDs, they bonded over their love of Alanis Morissette. And Lindsey Graham has never been the same. To show you what we mean, to show you Lindsey Graham's transformation, let's play a game called Graham Cracker Crust

with a Gooey Trump Center. I'm sorry about the name. Would anyone out there like to play the game? It's already happened, sir. I like that he thought it was going to happen. But it was close. It was close. Hi, what's your name?

Tiffany. Tiffany. Whoa, good name. On the list of names that are associated with other names, it's one of the best ones. But I'm better than her. Great. Are you from South Carolina, Tiffany? I live here now.

So yes. Yes, yeah. Every place we go, the second someone says they're not born in the theater, you turn into fucking Trump. Tiffany. Applaud Tiffany. Tiffany applaud Tiffany we're going to ask you some questions about Lindsey Graham

are you familiar with the senior senator I am yes I'm willing to vote her mount thank you do you like what you've heard so far that's our first poll, and it's 100%. Off to a good start. Over the last year and a half, the Mueller investigation has led to 37 plea deals or indictments,

including high-level Trump campaign officials and associates. But Lindsey Graham referred to these serious offenses as process crimes and has dismissed all calls for impeaching Trump by saying it's too early to tell. What did Graham say about the possibility of impeaching Bill Clinton? Is it A? Look, Bill's a good guy, but Y2K is coming. We are not ready, and if we wake up on January 1st and our palm pilots don't work and Alta Vista's down, that blood is on his hands.

Or is it B? It's 1998, and if Bill Clinton doesn't start wearing bootcut jeans, he has got to go. I need to see a double-breasted beige jacket over a mock turtleneck, or I swear to God I'll spend the next 20 years trying to fight wars in the Middle East. Or is it C? The point I'm trying to make is you don't have to be committed of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic. If this body determines your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your

role because impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office? Or is it D? Make sure I get this one right. Ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, sex, ew. What do you think, Tiffany? C. It's C. That is what Lindsey Graham said about Bill Clinton.

Amazing. Next question. In 2018, after Donald Trump held a summit with North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un, Lindsey Graham said the following, what President Trump has done is historic. He deserves the Nobel Peace Prize and then some. What is after that?

What did Lindsey Graham say back in 2015 after President Obama held a summit with Cuban leader Raul Castro? Is it A? It's like no one has seen Godfather Part II. You think you're going to Cuba to have a nice slice of cake with an old guy and then boom, your brother's trying to kill you because you didn't hang out enough over the holidays. Or is it B? Name one time America took a dictatorship and changed it from the inside. What Obama has done is make every other dictator think maybe Barack Obama will do business with me. Or is it C? If we allow Cuban cigars into America,

what will the world's biggest losers use as status symbols? What a mess. Or is it D? I don't think he has a clue about anything. He's just trying to get his numbers up and get the biggest reaction he can. He is helping the enemy of this nation. He is empowering radical Islam. I'm sorry, this is something Lindsey Graham said about Trump back in the campaign. Pick a different answer. Pick one of those.

What do you think, Tiffany? Shit. B. B. You got it. Next question. In 2018, after Democrats sought to delay the hearing of Brett Kavanaugh because of numerous credible allegations against him,

Lindsey Graham threw a temper tantrum on the floor of the hearing and screamed, this is the most unethical sham since I've been in politics, this is not a job interview, this is hell. He even tweeted, all they want is a political outcome, keep this seat open and hope they win the midterms. Pathetic. What did Senator Graham say two years earlier about the Republican tactic of delaying Merrick Garland's hearing until after Donald Trump's election?

Is it A? Merrick's a good candidate, sure. But the ideal candidate for us would be more of a guy with a very loose control on his temper and a lot to hide. Just a lot to hide, the details of which are easily dredged up, hard for us to ignore, and yet we do it anyway. Or is it B?

La la la, I can't talk to you reporters. I'm on the phone. I'm a busy, busy senator man. Yes, no, I, nay. Busy, busy, busy. Or is it C? Just had a good meeting with Judge Garland. He's honest and capable. And I told him that I believe the Scalia vacancy should be filled by the next president.

I think that's best for the court. I think that's best for the country. Or is it D? Oh, we're doing it because we can. We know it's awful. But there is no downside for us because politics is broken. Excuse me, my hot air balloon is leaving. I need to go.

C. You got it. Final question, Tiffany. Which of the following is a real quote Lindsey Graham, the prince of political principles and norms, has said about President Donald Trump? Is it A? I don't believe he's a Republican. His policies are really bad for the country. political principles and norms has said about President Donald Trump? Is it A?

I don't believe he's a Republican. His policies are really bad for the country. Is it B? Trump's foreign policy is a complete disaster. Is it C? I agree with him mostly. Is it D? He's a jackass.

Is it E? I think he's a kook. I think he's crazy. I think he's unfit for office. Is it F? There is an endless attempt to label the guy as some kind of kook. Not fit to be president. Is it G? He's a race-baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot.

Or is it H? No, I don't think he's a xenophobic, race-baiting, religious bigot as president. What do you think, Tiffany? All of the above. Tiffany, you've got it. You have won Graham Cracker Crust with a gooey Trump Center. Thank you so much for playing. Thank you so much, Jamie Harrison, for being here.

Thank you. For taking on Lindsey Graham. Good luck, man. Thank you so much. All right. One more time for Jamie. One more time for Jamie Harrison. All right. We have time for three questions,

and Travis will find you if you raise your hand. Potentially. Ooh, all right. Good job, Travis. Guys, give it up for Travis. Give it up for Travis. Okay, hi.

Hi. This is awesome. So excited to be here. Thank you guys for coming to Charleston. What's your name? My name's Katie. Hi, Hi. This is awesome. So excited to be here. Thank you guys for coming to Charleston. What's your name? My name's Katie. Hi, Katie. Yeah, I never thought you guys would come here, so thank you.

This is so much better than a lot of places we go, just for being clear. Don't name which ones. My wife went to College of Charleston. Yeah, awesome. We're jealous. Cougars? Yeah. I read the Wikipedia.

All right, so my question is something I talk with my sister a lot about, is when are Tommy and John going to run for president someday? What the? I was going to say. Which John? You've got to write all their speeches and their jokes. Excuse me? We are.

Okay, I'm gonna call that borderline homophobic. Great question. Next question. I have a human rights campaign. I hope you like seeing us in Charleston. We'll never be here again. I just have a message. Boo her!

Boo! I want to hear boos. Hisses are good. Unbelievable. I have a message to whichever of our staff is editing this and is staying up late at night and is definitely getting a raise. Keep this in.

No matter what. Keep it in. I will pay you out of my own pocket. You will never see us again. What about Brittany? Alright, cool. Great question. Thanks for coming. Sit the fuck down. So I have a question. I'm originally from the Chicago area.

And, you know, Barack Obama called me once to campaign, you know, to get elected. No big deal. Yeah, no big deal to get elected to the Senate from Illinois. Sorry. Were you drinking with Sean Spicer? Hey, girl. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I'm all Sean Spicer-ed out.

But I have a question because I've lived in South Carolina from 1989 to 94, and then I moved back to Chicago. And so I've lived in both worlds. So as Democrats Democrats as I'm a centrist like moderate kind of girl what can we do to like bridge those worlds like you talk a lot about it in your podcast but I'm very progressive in a lot of my ideas and that but I'm also not like AOC and I'm not like like there's a there's a melding there so what can we do to bridge those worlds because I think that's where we're all going to

succeed we got it not succeed fool us once on that one you know I wish Virginia would succeed huh? what? come again? your Howard Schultz sign is nice I'm just kidding I wish Virginia would secede, huh? Huh? What? Huh? What?

Come again? Your Howard Schultz sign is nice. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. I'm sorry.

I'm still hot from the last one. I mean, look, I think we are a Big Ten party, right? We are the more diverse party, and that's in terms of background, race, gender, ideology. And so, you know, we were talking about worrying about infighting in the primary, right? Like, I think it is completely legitimate and necessary for us to have a great debate about the different ideas that we have in this primary. And as Democrats, because we all have different views and different beliefs. What I worry about is when we start ascribing motives to people and we start engaging in character attacks against each other, like you believe this policy because you are in

the pocket of X corporation, or you are too socialist, or you are too this. I think when we start attacking each other with labels and motivations, that's problematic. I think when we say to each other, I don't agree your policy goes far enough, and that's why I'm proposing this policy, and I think this will work better. Or I didn't agree with your vote on that issue, and I would have voted differently, and here's why I would have voted differently. That is not only legitimate, but something that we absolutely have to do.

But what I worry about is when we tell each other, as Democrats, that you are lesser somehow because you believe something that I don't believe. Because our goals as a party align more than our differences, and also, by the way, we are up against not just Donald Trump, but a Republican party that is more radicalized than any time in our lifetime. And so I think we do need to keep perspective on

we should have all the policy disagreements that we can have right now, and we should have them on a substantive basis, but we should not get to the point where we are attacking each other with attacks that can then be used by Donald Trump and the Republicans in the general election. Pick, Travis.

You're relishing it. Wait a minute. Is that a Patriots fan? Oh, get out of here. Oh, no. What's happening? I'm so sorry for six rings. Who is it?

It's a Patriots fan. There's a little Patriots fan. It's small. It's small. Thanks for leaving the bag I had. It's small. What's your question, sir? So I'm from New England, but I've been in Charleston since 2002.

That's a long time. Yeah. That's a long time. Yeah. That's a long time. And I care a lot about this city, and to see us flip this district into blue this year was quite incredible. Joe Cunningham! So my question is pretty much based out of fear. You know, if you look at a macrocosmic level from the reaction that the country had to Obama being president, worried on a local level how we might have to deal with the headwinds from the reaction of us flipping this county,

or this district, excuse me. So any advice on how to keep us galvanized and moving forward to bring this momentum into this 2020 cycle to effect change? Never stop organizing. Like, the Republicans were shocked that they lost this seat that Joe Cunningham won. And you're exactly right. They are coming for it with every dollar the Koch brothers have. Trump will be here to visit. They will do everything.

And the only thing, you can't control any of that. You can't stop the Koch brothers from spending money. You can't stop Trump from tweeting about it. But what you can do is keep up the momentum you have from that win by continuing to organize, getting registered for people to vote, and never stop fighting for Joe Cunningham. And you can win it again. people to vote and never stop fighting for joe cunningham and you can win it again so there's a there's a woman named shirley chisholm who is the first black woman ever to run for president and i was i was telling the guys upstairs i'm working on a book of black women's

speeches and she gave a speech in 1968 to students at howard university and she told them to organize the rage and i think that is the most important piece of advice I have contemplated in the last year, because we keep telling people that their rage is wrong when it is completely justified. We're talking about walls, and we're seeing children stripped from their families, and we're seeing folks kicked out of this country, and we're seeing people treated like everything less than human. We have a right to have a whole lot of rage right now. people treated like everything less than human, we have a right to have a whole lot of rage right now. So it's our responsibility to organize the rage every single day in every single way that we can. And let's be clear, this is not the first time, nor will it be the last time that there

will be opposition to progress. You can look at history, you can look at the reconstruction era, you can look at folks fighting against Jim Crow, etc, etc. So take a lesson out of a page of a history book and keep the rage organized. I feel like we should I wish we could go back in time and rename the Unify or Die Fund Organize the Rage.

Because that is a really bunch of Sorry, the donkey's shit. We should title the episode. It'd be a shame to lose that logo, though. That's right, yes. They definitely don't match. Where did we land on the logo? Don't tell me. Excuse me. I am...

I'm going to turn on this whole city. Before he does, thank you, Charleston. Thank you, Jamie Harrison. Thank you, Brittany Packman. We appreciate you guys coming on. We'll be right back. guitar solo you