Pod Save America - Roe vs Republicans

Episode Date: June 27, 2023

The Republican presidential candidates and Joe Biden battle with each other over abortion a year after the Dobbs decision. The president road tests a new economic message and gets advice about his age from Hollywood. Texas Congressman Colin Allred stops by to talk about his Senate race against Ted Cruz. And later, Jon, Jon, and Tommy take a look at some feuds where it's tough to pick a side in a game called Billion Dollar Baby. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. 

Listen, we're all tired of the both sides media. And in this existential battle we find ourselves in between authoritarianism and democracy, we need media that actually defends democracy unapologetically. That's why you should check out the Midas Touch podcast hosted by three brothers with diverse backgrounds. The Midas Touch podcast releases daily and is a go to source for news and commentary. See why our very own Dan Pfeiffer called Midas Touch's unique approach to covering the news a sign of hope in his latest book and subscribe to the Midas Touch podcast today. That's M-E-I-D-A-S-T-O-U-C-H. Know both sides, just the truth, unapologetically pro-democracy. Tune in for new episodes daily, wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. And halfway to Moscow, I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.

On today's show, the Republican presidential candidates and Joe Biden are battling with each other over abortion a year after the Dobbs decision. The president road tests a new economic message and gets advice about his age from Hollywood. Texas Congressman Colin Allred stops by to talk about his Senate race against Ted Cruz. And we take a look at some feuds where it's tough to pick a side in a game we're calling Billion Dollar Baby. But first, we will be back on the road this fall, starting with live shows in D.C. and New Orleans. What? Yeah. Yeah.

If you're a member of the Friend of the Pod subscription community, which you should be, you get first access to pre-sale tickets and the best seats for these shows. When Tommy hits that watermelon, you're gonna need a poncho. I'm going to Gallagher this? I would love to Gallagher a show. You get to sit on stage. You get to sit right next

to Dan at the end. Right there. That's my chair. Damn it. Well, now it's someone else's. The presale starts tomorrow, June 28th. You can warm your hands on the hot, hot takes. All right. The presale starts tomorrow, June 28th.

It goes through June 30th. And again, to participate in the presale as a friend of the pod, you can subscribe at any tier today to get the code. That's cricket.com slash friends. That subscription, in addition to getting some great tickets early, will also get you some bonus content from us, access to a great community on Discord,

and so much more. So much more. The Discord community sent in all the questions for the bonus pod we did on Rush over the weekend. They were great. Did a great job. Thank you. It's fun to chat with folks in the Russia over the weekend. They were great. Did a great job. Thank you. And it's fun to chat with folks in the Discord.

Very cool. Go to crooked.com slash friends to subscribe and get the pre-sale code and link. General on-sale tickets will go live later this week. Also, we're excited to announce that our Fuck Bans, Leave Queer Kids Alone fund has surpassed $100,000. That's over twice our original goal. So far, there have been over 1,500 contributions that will go to organizations in places like Florida,

Missouri, Kentucky, and Tennessee that are fighting for LGBTQ rights. To track the progress of the Fuck Bands fundraiser, we worked with a nonprofit called Classroom of Compassion to build a pride machine, which we will now run i guess is that was that what you do with i have it's sitting here in studio this is an audio goldberg pride machine uh it's got disco balls olivia's about to let it go let's see what happens let's see let's see what

happens look at that okay the balls are heading down the ramp. We're supposed to be doing color commentary on this. Oh, wait. That one worked. That one went down. There we go. There it goes. Here we go. Oh, now it's going by.

I think that's makeup. Oh, there's a. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. It's not over yet. It's not over yet. It's going to hit the dominoes. It's going to hit one more. Boom.

Whoa. Yes. Yeah. Whoa. Yes. Yeah. Woo. Are those shoes supposed to spin? Ben, spin the shoes. Yeah.

Happy Pride, everybody. All right. That's some A-plus content right there. It's incredible. All right. Let's some A-plus content right there. It's incredible. All right. Let's get to the news. One year after the Supreme Court ruled that there is no constitutional right to an abortion,

the Republican presidential candidates took a victory lap at a gathering of evangelical voters in Washington, D.C. over the weekend. Donald Trump, the twice-divorced frontrunner who's been indicted for paying hush money to a porn star, told the crowd that, quote, no president has ever fought for Christians as hard as I have. And, quote, I'm being indicted for you. Just like Jesus. Oh, yeah. He also bragged about appointing the justices who overturned Roe v. Wade, while opponents like Ron DeSantis and Mike Pence sort of kind of criticized Trump

for not yet supporting stricter abortion bans. Let's listen. Exactly one year ago today, those justices were the pivotal votes in the Supreme Court's landmark decision ending the constitutional atrocity known as Roe v. Wade. But I got it done and nobody thought it was even a possibility. But I'm proud to be the most pro-life president in American history. We have also delivered in Florida on promoting a culture of life. And that means signing the heartbeat bill into law that protects unborn children when there's a detectable heartbeat. It was the right thing to do. Don't let anyone tell you it wasn't.

Every Republican candidate for president should support a ban on abortion before 15 weeks as a minimum nationwide standard. Of course, Trump has refused to say whether he would support that 15 week ban. And he has also criticized DeSantis's six week abortion ban in Florida, which is what DeSantis was obliquely referring to when he said, don't let anyone tell you it wasn't the right thing to do. So now that it's been a year since Dobbs, what do you guys think about the effect that decision has had on voters' belief about abortion and how that compares with where Republican voters are right now? Tommy? It seems to have drastically increased support for abortion rights in this country. by almost four to one, so 23% to 6%. Those whose views on abortion have changed in the past year

said they've become more supportive of legal abortion, not less supportive, including among independent women, a critical swing group. They became more supportive by 28% to 5%. So pretty big swing. Yeah. I mean, this is what, look, polls are polls. They're all over the place. This is one issue where, like, you know, a lot of outlets did something about this for the one year anniversary of Dob are too strict. They are significantly more likely to identify in the language of polls as pro-choice over pro-life. And this is for the first time in two decades. Also, big jumps in support for legalized abortion among Republican men, Black Protestants, Hispanic Catholics, three groups that were not very supportive of abortion before Dobbs. So it's a pretty big change. Yeah. I mean, Mike Pence is at least voicing the position that has been held, whether out loud or not, by Republicans for a very long time. The support for national ban isn't just unpopular in the country. The country supports abortion rights. It's unpopular among Republicans. So two to one in that same poll that Tommy mentioned, it was like 58 to 30 oppose overturning Roe. 80 to 14% oppose a national

ban, which means a sizable portion of people who are anti-abortion or say they're anti-abortion still oppose the national ban. Not just Democrats, 83% of independents and 65% of Republicans oppose a national ban. Yeah. The other thing that's interesting, I think, historically, I think the narrative has been that Republicans are really motivated by the abortion issue more so than Democrats. That is completely flipped. The NBC poll found that 87% of Democratic voters strongly disapprove of Roe's overturn

versus 52% of Republicans who strongly approve. So it's a 35 point gap in terms of the intensity of feeling about the change. And in terms of Ron DeSantis' six week abortion ban, 18% support. Terrible. That's it. 18%. Now, I mean, the only thing I'll say, you know, just there are still, and one of the polling, the polling director Gallup said this, there still aren't a lot of all or nothing

people. So if you ask people, you know, do you want no restrictions on abortion whatsoever? That is still, I think it's like 25% quarter right now. people get abortions very late in the pregnancy, which is usually because there is a fetal abnormality or the health of the mother or, you know, various other reasons. So it's like these do not happen all the time. But every other number, every other number shows a country that is rejecting intensely the abortion bans that have been put in place and stops. And, you know, I do think there's also like a little bit of a subtlety in terms of what this does inside of Republican politics, because, you know, you hear the enthusiasm inside of that crowd.

And these are people that are going to get behind candidates early. These are people that knock on doors. So I think there's a little bit of that dynamic at play. But on the other hand, I also wonder what this does to the electability argument that someone like Ron DeSantis is going to have to make. It's gone. It's gone. Well, do you guys see any evidence that hitting Trump from the right on abortion, like, you know, DeSantis and and Pence are sort of kind of doing might peel off enough Trump voters to make a difference in the primary for them. Forget about the general. Not yet.

I mean, DeSantis is currently dropping like a rock in most of these national polls, so it's not really showing up for him. Rolling down like a rock. Rolling down like a rock. Picking up speed down like a rock. Pence is not exactly popping. I mean, DeSantis is basically running his entire campaign to the right of Trump on all sort of culture war issues to the extent that he thinks he can,

but it doesn't seem to be doing anything for him. Yeah. I think the question is like, how salient is this inside of Republican politics right now? The difference between a bunch of candidates who all completely agree with appointing right-wing judges who will continue to, you know, support not having national abortion rights versus what level of ban, you know, at the national level they're going to get behind. Like, it's just not clear. You have Trump refusing to do it. Nikki Haley gave a whole speech on abortion, refused to take a position on a national ban. And then when she's asked about it, she dodges the question. I mean, the strategy would be take these right wing positions on abortion and make a hard play

in Iowa for the evangelical voters there. But DeSantis doesn't seem to be doing that effectively and it doesn't seem to be working, at least not so far. I'll go as far to say that, you know, it doesn't seem to have a lot of salience in the Republican primary issues. That's fair. It feels like the big issue that is going to be predictive of how you vote in the Republican primary is what you think about Donald Trump. Right. And it was interesting. Ralph Reed, who runs the conference that they all went to in D.C.

Terrible person. Yeah, longtime evangelical Christian activist in Republican politics. He sat down with Politico's Ryan Liz a few weeks ago, and Liz asked him, like, what's the deal with Trump, right? Like, twice divorced, hush money to a porn star clearly not a natural ally of the evangelical community and he said trump knew that evangelicals helped him win the nomination and he felt like he had a debt to repay and he repaid it and that mattered and that matters now and all these other guys he's like i'm they're great people and they're

probably like you know closer more closely aligned to right wing Christian values. But like Trump won and Trump delivered. So that's all they've ever said. Just also like you sort of step back from this. What would any of these people do as president? They would nominate anti-choice judges and they would sign whatever Republican Congress passed. They would all sign a national abortion. We'll talk about this during the Biden section. But the end result of any of them will look very similar. So Politico has a story about vulnerable House Republicans in California and New York and a lot of those Biden districts who are now saying they aren't afraid of Democratic attacks on abortion in 24. So long as they support exceptions for rape, incest, life and health of the mother and or first trimester abortions, which a lot of them do.

What do you think about that? What do you think about their their views on? I I found it's a bunch of people confusing like strategy for geography. You know, they they're acting as though they're dancing on the head of the pin on this issue to try to create some kind of distance from national Republicans made any difference. The one thing we did see is that voters in states where electing Republicans might lead to a ban in that state, the issue was more salient. So it is true that the issue was more salient in, say, a state like Pennsylvania than it was in a state like New York or California. Does that mean the reason some of these Republicans hung on is because they didn't take as extreme a position as, say, a Mike Pence? I don't think we know that. I think the question for us is less, how do we tar them as looking like other Republicans? I think there's some

truth to the argument that that didn't necessarily work as well. It's more, how do we make, how as we head into 2024, when a Republican Congress would meet a national abortion ban, how do we make that feel real and pressing and central to the argument we make? And then it won't matter what some Republican who is not as far to the right on the issue as MTG says. I forget what the name of the Republican, the story, the political story quoted some New York representative bragging about fighting off these attacks in 2022. The Democratic Party was a mess in New York in 2022. If you think it's going to be the same electorate in 2024, you're an idiot. I don't think you really believe

that. You're just trying to posture for the cameras here. Maybe they could create a position that included a bunch of exceptions on paper that, you know, would look good on a Gallup poll. But I would just, if I was running against these people, I'd say, if you support Trump, you support his judges, you made this outcome happen. You own this. You own this. Of course you do. I totally agree with that. I think that if you're a Republican who supports, you know, exceptions and first term abortion,

whatever, like I could see you squeaking through if you really hit that message hard, where I don't think, I think that if you tag these Republicans, though, as supporting Republican leaders and Republican presidential candidates who are much more extreme extreme then you're gonna have a much tougher time and also like these people have all taken votes that are that are bad votes anti-abortion votes and you can hold those up too so it's like yeah if you're a brand new candidate who hasn't governed yet and you want to have some like mealy-mouthed uh middle of the. Yeah, maybe you can squeak through. But like at some point someone's going to say, so do you support Donald Trump? Do you support Ron DeSantis? Right.

Yeah. Do you support what Kevin McCarthy's doing and Mitch McConnell's doing? And it's not going to work. And also if it's a referendum on electing a Republican House means they will attempt to do a national ban. Electing a Democratic House means codifying Roe. do a national ban, electing a Democratic House means codifying Roe. Getting these people on the record squirrelly and afraid to come out either for a national ban or against it, while certainly refusing to say they'd support codifying Roe is, I think, you know, that's what we have to do. Before we move on, we should say that before we even get to 2024, there are a couple of big

fights over abortion that we should all pay attention to. This year, on August 8th in Ohio, Republicans put a measure on the ballot that would raise the threshold to pass constitutional over abortion that we should all pay attention to this year. On August 8th in Ohio, Republicans put a measure on the ballot that would raise the threshold to pass constitutional amendments from 50 to 60 percent. They're hoping that they can defeat an amendment in the fall that would guarantee the right to an abortion. And then in Virginia, Glenn Youngkin is trying to pass a statewide ban unless Democrats hold their four seat majority in the state Senate. That'll be November election. So go to VoteSaveAmerica.com. We'll have ways for you to help both in the Ohio ballot initiative elections, plural, and then and then in Virginia in the fall.

So about Joe Biden's got quite a bit on his plate right now. President spoke to Vladimir Zelensky on Sunday about the Wagner rebellion in Russia. He'll deliver a major speech in Chicago on Wednesday about Bidenomics. And he's signaling that he intends to campaign on abortion rights in the next election. President and vice president held events to mark the Dobbs anniversary over the weekend. Here's what Biden had to say. I know I'm 198 years old. But all kidding aside, think about that. I never, ever thought

I'd be signing an executive order protecting the right to contraception. But the only sure way to protect a woman's health and rights is for Congress to pass a law. for Congress to pass a law. As I said before, the court got Roe right 50 years ago. And I believe Congress should restore the protections of Roe v. Wade once and for all. But we need your help.

So I'm asking again, are you with us? You're going to get this done? Just as an aside, I do like that every time he jokes about his age, he picks a new big number. It's great. It's funny. It's great. It's a good joke. Works every time.

What do you guys think is the best way for Biden and Democrats to make abortion matter as much in 24 as it did in 2022? Like, what's the right message here? I would lean hard into the consequences of what the Republicans have already done and how the part as we discussed earlier, how the party is pushing them to go further and make it part of a broader narrative about how extreme the Republican Party is, you know, the extreme MAGA GOP stuff that Biden is already doing. You know, the other helpful thing for Democrats in making this argument is everyone knows this is happening. You know, this is not an issue that like some people are paying attention. It's like 92% of the country in polls know this is happening and it's causing a cultural backlash. I remember last year, the CEO of Barstool Sports came out

and said how Roe v. Wade is a litmus test for him and how it went against the Republican rhetoric on limited government. Like this is an issue that can splinter the Republican party. Because I think there's, there's some Trump fans, even that like the version of him, that's like the rich guy on the apprentice and the kind of playboy, you know, like that image of him. They're not, they didn't buy into a party that has this like moral right wing crusading, Mike Pence, invasive, scolding, awful strand of the GOP. And so I would just talk about the consequences, push this as hard as we can, make this a part of every story and make it part of this broader extremism narrative. I think Mike Pence coming out there and saying every Republican needs to come out for a 15 week ban is going to force a lot of them to either say they agree or

avoid the question, which is just a way of saying that they're open to it and would sign it. I think we just be crystal clear about this. If Republicans win the Congress, they will try to pass a national abortion ban. Every single Republican that has a chance of becoming president will sign one. So the question is, do you want a national abortion ban or do you want to elect people who will fight to protect abortion rights and a whole bunch of other freedoms that are currently at stake in a court that may come for contraception next, may come for gay rights next, may come for a whole host of other freedoms next. And I think that that's sort of, we're going to have a Congress that protects freedom, or we're going to have a bunch of busy bodies that tell you how to live and what you can teach and what you can read and what your doctors

can do. And, you know, there are Republican candidates like Nikki Haley, who are going to try to weasel out of this, are already trying to weasel out of this by saying like, well, really, you can't pass the national abortion ban unless there's 60 votes in the Senate. So it's very unlikely. But all we need to say is like, if Republicans get enough power, they will pass the national abortion ban. That's all you need to know. They get the votes, they'll do it. I don't think we need to explain the filibuster to people. I think we've done enough of that. No, no, no more of that. And then DeSantis, I'm sure, will attack everyone else on the debate stage with him for not coming out in support of a heartbeat bill, which is a six-week abortion ban. So he's going to push them to be more extreme,

and he's going to attack them from the right over and over again. I don't think it'll work for him, but I think it'll harm the party. I think your point about consequences and talking more about the consequences is very important. The stories are gut-wrenching. They're gut-wrenching. And it's also, you know, as this is talked about in politics and in the media, it becomes very, there's some antiseptic language you use. People are talking about weeks and policies and exceptions and all this kind of stuff. And it's like, no, you know, Republican supported decision that forced a 10- old rape victim to cross state lines to get an abortion, force women to give birth to babies that their doctors knew would suffer and die right after birth and force women to give birth who were on the brink of death.

Or essentially force them to miscarry before they'd give them a treatment like nearly kill them it's just and like the the other thing to your point about like everyone knows what's going on like more and more people have stories about people that they that they know who went through this and not just uh and actually mostly not democrats in blue states mostly people who are living in states that have implemented restrictions. Right. It's remarkable just how much local news coverage, just local news coverage there is about all these different experiences that people are having that are making it real for people in a way that just goes far beyond anything like a political debate can do. It's more akin to what happened, I think, with the quick shift on gay rights, which is just more people started coming out. People started to know gay people. It became unassailable. You know, you can, you can,

you can convince someone to go from being anti-gay to pro-gay. You can't make them go the other round. You can't, and you can, and there are people out there that have, that, that in the abstract would have told a pollster that they were against abortion access, but they start hearing these stories. They start seeing it in their own lives. And all of a sudden you see the numbers moving. I mean, you can imagine an ad, not hard to make, where you have people who've been through some of this tell these stories. And then you have Donald Trump saying, they never thought I could do it, but I did it. I overturned the constitutional atrocity of Roe v. Wade. I put the justice there. All he's doing is bragging and bragging and bragging about

it. And you just have that voice running in the background as you have all these stories and i and as we get closer to i think just the reality of i i do think even now you see that the sort of the same people that said it was hysterics to say that roe v wade was about to overturn are now saying it's hysterics to say that a national abortion ban is possible it is absolutely possible oh yeah and we need to really start driving that home for people a national national if republicans the senate map is fucking terrible republicans could win the house they can win the white house they will pass a national abortion ban yeah and now you know we were talking about um the percentage of people who uh opposed a nationwide ban which is like 80 percent 53 percent want a federal law ensuring access to abortion. Biden is promising

to do that. Considering the current Senate map, which is not great. Do you have any concern that Biden's overpromising when he talks about codifying Roe? He doesn't describe it as we will do like I will. He describes it as if we win, we will do it. I mean, we need to do I don't think there's anything wrong with laying out the stakes. If if if enough people come out and and and make this an issue we can do it if they don't we can't map is tough yeah let's pick up chances are florida and texas for democrats it's tough so so here's what we need to do we need to win all of the slightly easier senate races in uh wisconsin michigan nevada and pennsylvania not states where you usually put easier Senate races next to each other. But right now, Democrats are probably favored in those states slightly.

Then we'd need to win Ohio. Sherrod would need to win. And Tester would need to win. Manchin, it doesn't really matter because if he loses or he stays, he's still going to be a pain in the ass about this. But you wouldn't need that. You just need Ohio and Montana, but you need to win both. And then we'd need Gallego to win in arizona then you would have possibly 51

senate democrats or 51 votes because you'd have uh harris breaking the tie to get rid of the filibuster to codify abortion rights and then we'd also need the house so we can do it it's not it's not impossible to do that. Well, I think that's like how you also then need to make sure all of the Democrats would be willing to get rid of the filibuster. But I do think at that point, if there are some who are a little nervous about it, would they want to be the one to stand up and say, no, I'm blocking this like Tester, who just won six years? I don't know. I think then you'd have a good chance. We just went through the first midterm elections we've had since the overturning of Roe. And we

saw the way that it already scrambled some of our expectations in politics. So yeah, I think we have to fight for it. All right. So the White House released a memo this morning on Bidenomics, where they argue that the president's economic policies are both working and supported by most Americans. What's your take on the on the memo, the strategy, the the name Bidenomics? I'm I'm into Bidenomics. I like the name. I kind of like it. I really like it. I like it. It reminds me of when we just embraced calling it Obamacare. And then as Obamacare became more and more free economics. What I was going to say is only that, like, you read the memo that the White House put out kind of walking through all the policies. And it is just sort of, you know, it's a it's a strategy. It's a restatement of their policies into a kind of

coherent message. But it's just a reminder to and seeing them all laid out. You're like, we spend so much time in the swirl of culture wars and the latest bit of like right wing bullshit and Trump going off and all the nonsense and the noise we deal with day to day. And then you read the memo walking through the policies like, oh, that's right. That's why this world exists. Democratic economic policies are incredibly popular. Republican economic policies are incredibly unpopular. It's also a memo that has just like so much language that we used to put in speeches all the time. All the time. The middle up and the center out, the top through and the bottom forward.

This investment spurred private investment to the tune of a lot of money i like that they are framing their economic message as a strategy to follow instead of just a record to brag about yeah because i think they are going to have and you can see both of these attention in the memo a little bit because it does go on and on a little bit about the accomplishments which you can tell there's obviously a constituency in that white house like there wasn't our white house like there isn't every white house who's like, no, no, we just got to talk about the accomplishments more. We're going to talk about the accomplishments more. And it's fine.

Like go for it. Talk about the accomplishments. But I think you're going to have more luck convincing people that the Biden approach to the economy is better than Republicans than you will. Biden deserves more credit for the economy that he's gotten. Yeah. I mean, they have a genuinely good case to make, I think, on the merits. When you total up the COVID stimulus, the infrastructure bill, the CHIPS Act,

and the Inflation Reduction Act, there are tons of examples of things happening right now because of things Joe Biden signed into law. There's roads and bridges. A couple of days ago, the government made a $9.2 billion loan to Ford, I believe, to begin construction of three battery factories for electric vehicles well cars they're using the chips act to create uh jobs in the u.s and they're forcing uh companies who get that funding to do things like guarantee high quality child care for workers who construct the plant or work at the plant so they're like really leveraging

this all these different ways the problem is just it takes a while to get the money flowing even when you get the money flowing you have to convince people that this was because something Joe Biden did and not just something happening in the world or, you is like, what do you want your government doing? Do you want it to spend time and money and policies on reducing the cost of healthcare, prescription drugs, building roads, reducing the cost of education? Or do you want to spend like $4 trillion on tax cuts for rich people? Because that's what the Republicans want to do. Or burn books. Yeah. Like, do you want to, here's the thing. We're going to, we're on this side, we're going to try to build a train track. On this side, we're chasing Adam Schiff around with a fucking torch until we catch him. One thing I will say is that I.

Both are a good time. I also appreciate too, like, I know you're right about sort of, you know, you feel the tension and the desire to like, we have to tell our accomplishments. We have to tell our accomplishments. I appreciate that there was only a couple of places, maybe only really one in that whole memo where they did what we used to feel like we had to do all the time, which is like, we know there's a lot left to do. We know there's more work to be done. It was just on inflation where clearly they must see a lot of sort of headwinds in the polling that they made sure

there's more work to be done here. We're not all the way there, but we're seeing some improvement. And the United States is doing better than a lot of other countries, if not all of them, when it comes to inflation. They do love that point too. It's a good point. It was a global problem thanks to the war and a bunch of other challenges, supply chains,

blah, blah, blah. No, I get that. I just think that voters are going to be like, I don't care that folks in the UK are paying more for their bread than I am. I'm still fucking annoyed.

No, if you go to a supermarket and yell at a woman buying eggs, be like, there was a bird flu call. Like, it's not going to work for you. But again, if you if you just say look elections are a choice you either get cheaper health care or you get tax cuts for rich people what do you want that's an easy one it's a good

one yeah it's an easy one uh there's also a new nbc poll that has biden ahead of trump by 49 to 45 we like that uh though his approval rating is at 43 percent and 55 percent of voters say they have major concerns about Biden having the necessary mental and physical health to serve another term. What do you guys make of those seemingly contradictory numbers? And were there any other parts of that poll that stood out to you? Yeah, I don't think they're particularly contradictory because I think everybody everyone's concerned and about Biden's age. But they also don't like Donald Trump. And now they don't like Ron DeSantis. Yeah. The part that I have bigger concerns about Trump's personality than Biden's age. Right. The part that really stood out to me was actually not

just how unpopular Ron DeSantis already is, but how unpopular and well-known he already is. Right. He's at 30% to 46% disapproval to approval. That's three quarters of the country that's already gotten to know him. He's already nearly at 50% disapproval. That is really fucking bad. And it turns out becoming nationally known for picking fights with librarians and Disney is not the winning strategy to rally the country he might have otherwise have thought. Apparently not even a winning strategy in your own Republican primary. So far, Trump has widened his lead in the primary in this poll,

which I want to mention because last week, I think, there was some poll that Dan and I talked about where it did seem like Trump was slipping a bit. But... CNN. A CNN poll, right. But in both polls, Ron DeSantis isn't gaining.

Well, no. Neither poll was he gaining. The good news for Ron is that in the expanded poll, it's 51% Trump, 22% DeSantis isn't gaining. Neither poll was he gaining. The good news for Ron is that in the expanded poll, it's 51% Trump, 22% DeSantis. The head to head, it's 60% Trump, DeSantis at 36. So he's just getting crushed. I mean, I found that poll depressing, but what I expected, but more than anything, bad news for DeSantis. Although half the Republican primary wants Trump to be the leader of the party going forward. Half of them want new options. There's an opening there for somebody to make a play.

DeSantis is just flailing at it. I was at Disney with my family the other week. And I don't know if this is a story that's real or not. I hope it is real. That no one ever dies at Disney World because they continue to resuscitate. And so you're off the grounds so that no one ever, ever dies in Disney World. I was just thinking about that. What if you choke?

Disney has defeated death itself. You think they're going to lose to Ron DeSantis? Mickey Mouse? I was at this, they do these light shows and things. People were calling for Mickey to come out like they wanted to kill him. They were like, bring me Mickey.

Ron's not going to beat that. You can't beat that. That's in our blood. You can't beat that. That's all I wanted to say about that. Run, Mickey, run. Yeah. I was, look, a four-point Biden lead where he's at 49%.

I almost didn't believe it. I didn't believe it. Honestly, it was better than I thought. I don't even talk about it. I'll take it. All I'll say about that is I never thought I would be excited about just a four-point lead over Donald Trump. But now that we've lived through 2016 and 2020 i'm like yeah that's true that'd be amazing well it's also like it's not like uh do people need to get to know their options joe biden versus

donald trump is most fucking over determined thing we went through that completely well and on that note though the other uh part of this poll that stood out at me that got me a little nervous was so they did, they asked us about support for a third party candidate. Would you be open to a third party candidate? And then they compared it to that same question that they've asked in the last four elections. So support for a third party option is lower than it was in 2016. That's the good news, but pretty much, much higher than it was in 2012 when Obama was running for reelection. So it's somewhere in the middle. It's not, not quite as worrisome right now as 2016 was when clearly it was determinative

who's gonna say that you wouldn't consider it like would you consider a third party candidate i don't know what if a really great one emerged sure i'd consider it yeah you know why so then i they broke it down into like definitely and probably and the definitelys i was looking at because probably you're right probably is just like yeah probably like i would definitely consider not this type of. I think that's all. I think that's true. I also just think a country choosing between Obama and Mitt Romney and a country choosing between Biden and Trump is just in a different mood. You know, like people have a lot of concerns about Biden's age. Those concerns does not exist for Obama. People have a lot of concerns about Donald Trump as a human being. Those concerns didn't exist for Mitt Romney. It's a different context.

So speaking of Biden's age, the Wall Street Journal just ran an interview with George Clooney where he talks about how Hollywood studio exec Jeffrey Katzenberg has been advising Biden to, quote, own his age and turn it into an asset, citing 80-year-olds Harrison Ford and Mick Jagger as examples for Biden to emulate. What a sentence. Didn't think I'd be saying that today. You guys think that's good advice? I don't even know what the advice really is.

I guess to own his age? I think own your age, laugh about it, make jokes like the one we heard earlier. That's great advice, but it has to be coupled with great management of the country and things generally going well. The part in that story that made me flinch

was the, like, Democrats need to come to Hollywood for narrative and storytelling help. If I had a dollar for every time I heard someone say that, I would be as rich as George Clooney post-tequila sale because it's this cliche thing you always hear out here. But again, like, yes, of course, there's lots of great screenwriters in LA,

but you get to write the movie and then shoot what's on the page, right? Joe Biden, like, deals with the things happening in reality. It's a different...'s it's a different that's why we came here that's why we do the show here we uh look for our narratives here in la and then we come on the pod and give our takes i love the quote is always i always just say look everybody keeps coming to hollywood for cash and they don't come to us for the one thing we do better than anybody we just tell stories we were joking about that like two days ago that was that is such an fucking joke. I will also say, I love George Clooney, and he's actually one of the more politically astute actors in Hollywood, for sure.

But it's just funny that none of them can help themselves. No, I know. It's also like, the other thing too is it's like, Katzenberg doesn't tell stories. He makes quibby. Writers and directors tell stories. Katzenberg gives notes. And I'm sure maybe they're good, but he still gives notes.

But back to Biden. Kind of what his article is, if you think about right i guess that's true he wants to give biden the ultimate executive yeah that's right he wants to give no we solved it i think the the what biden can control is uh in terms of his age and perceptions of his age he's the age that he is he can't control that but he can joke about it he can show some fight with republicans uh like he did during the state of the union and he can connect with people which he does very very well in like small settings right when he meets someone on rope line and remembers them and remembers their family like he's very very good at that and i think if he keeps those three things in mind that to me is better than like getting in your head that because they think i'm old i have to like be sharp or I can't, you know,

like I can't gaffe. Right. Sometimes I don't put him out because they're worried he's going to get like I would I would rather him figure out the jokes, figure out the fight with Republicans and then figure out how to connect with. And then just protect that painting of him as a young man in the White House attic at all costs. And then tighten up Act three and then just write out that Putin. Biden's going to Biden's going to trip over an extension cord and fall down. And Katzberg's going to be like, we shouldn't use that tape. We have something better where he doesn't fall down. We use one where he doesn't fall down.

All right. Let's do a few quick hits on the latest headlines. Tommy and Ben recorded an excellent bonus episode of Pod Save the World over the weekend. Thank you. On the Wagner Rebellion in Russia. You should check it out if you haven't. And if you want to know what the hell is going on there, it's great. Progozhin, leader of the Wagner group, said Monday that he never actually meant to overthrow the government.

He just wanted to lodge a protest, which is, I guess, to lodge a protest, you get a bunch of troops together and you march on Moscow with guns. It was a civil rights march, yeah. It's like, I fell down and ate a pizza. Tommy, for people who haven't been paying close attention to what happened over the weekend, what should they know and where do things stand right now? So the gist is this guy, Yevgeny Prigozhin, who's this Russian oligarch who- Thanks for saying his first name. Nope, no problem. He runs this private mercenary force called the Wagner Group.

He has been in a fight with the Russian military for months now. And then he claimed that his guys got hit with a Russian airstrike. And then he went nuts. And he started marching his troops towards Moscow. He stood down after basically getting on the phone with the president of Belarus, who's a Putin stooge and cutting this deal where Prokofiev will now be exiled to Belarus. This idea that he was just protesting is very funny. It's kind of I don't know. It's a tough sell when you march 25,000 guys towards Moscow

and shoot down Russian military helicopters and planes on the way. It feels like a little more than just sort of a march. But right now, basically Putin came out today. He's very, very angry. He's trying to reassert control. Prokofiev says, oh, I wasn't trying to undercut Putin, but clearly he was. The problem for Putin now, though, is Prokofiev undercut the entire rationale for the war. He said the Ministry of Defense was corrupt and that the war is based on lies and corruption. And then Putin looks like he lost control because he did. And now he has to keep on trying to be a dictator of a country where there's a lot of people who would like to take him out. So it's a very fraught moment. I'm no foreign policy expert,

but Vladimir Putin doesn't seem like the kind of guy who will just let bygones be bygones. He's going to let him live in Belarus and just forget about him? I'm wondering if Prokofiev's going to fall out of a very tall building in the near future. We'll see. I would not.

If he offers to pour you tea, I would say don't share tea't don't take the tea. No, you drink from a different pot. You bring your own tea. We got a few 2024 primary updates for you. Ron DeSantis is taking his deft political talents to New Hampshire, where the most influential Republican women's group there released a statement attacking him for scheduling an event at the same time as their annual fundraising lunch. a statement attacking him for scheduling an event at the same time as their annual fundraising lunch. One New Hampshire Republican strategist called it, quote, the worst strategic move he has exhibited thus far, which is really saying something. I don't know, guys, I'm starting to think this

Ron DeSantis thing might not work out. What do you guys what do you guys think? Women be kneecapping Ron DeSantis' campaign? Republican luncheon. What do you think? Liv, you think that's OK? Yeah, it's good. We'll leave it in. I love this story so much. I have no idea if it means DeSantis' campaign in New Hampshire is good or bad. It just shows you how fucking entitled early state primary voters are. This group.

Especially activists. Voters are one thing. The activists are the really entitled. I almost said worse. They attacked him. I'm not running for anything. It's the New Hampshire Federation of Republican Women. They attacked DeSantis for holding a town hall's the new hampshire federation of republican women they attacked desantis for holding a town hall meeting the same day as one of their events

that featured trump even though their event is sold out it's an hour away and it's at different times it seems like that's just uh it's just a shot it's a shot to take a shot at them yeah it's the best because he's so weak that's great it is funny though it's like you do not pick a fight with the new hampshire federation of republican women well like i didn't even know that group existed until i read this story today it's just incredible but there isn't like the larger point here there isn't a single state or national poll that has shown ron desantis making any progress at all there is no fundraising metric no endorsement metric, no nothing.

There is, you can't see a sign anywhere from DeSantis making up any ground yet. That's the other fun thing in this story is DeSantis rolled out a bunch of state elected endorsements and like four of them had already announced that they endorsed Trump. So then they got into a big fight. The DeSantis super PAC got in a fight with these state elected officials. And it's like, what are you guys doing? That's awesome. It's, um, I love it. It's also just like, it's a little bit of a, it's a, it's a virtuous circle from our point of view, which is that he's covered as a unpopular weirdo. And so all the stories that lend themselves to the narrative and unpopular weirdo, and this is, and we're in Hollywood where we tell stories, uh, are, you know, you can't get away from it. I mean, there's reporters chasing Rhonda Sandus around

waiting for her to eat a hamburger weird until eventually they're going to get it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good. Because he's weird. Freaks and geeks too. Sure.

I think that's a good show though. Let me think about that. That's a bad show. Here's a shocker. Rolling Stone looked at the Federal Election Commission filings and found out that

the super PAC supporting Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was created by people who've also worked for Marjorie Taylor Greene, George Santos, and Herschel Walker. Great stuff. Great stuff, huh? We got them.

Fucking RFK Jr. Jesus Christ. Are we saying that this is not on the level? Is that what we're being told here? The treasurer of RFK Jr.'s PAC got paid $372,000 by Marjorie Taylor Greene and her entities in 2022. What a terrible fucking person. Yeah, he really is. Just what a garbage human being.

Well, you know. Not to help anything, but it's just what it is. Here's all you need to know about all of the, you know, tech bros and Elon Musk and all them who are telling you to give a look at RFK Jr. Elon Musk and all them who are telling you to give a look at RFK Jr. There are a bunch of MAGA grifters out there who are doing everything they can to get Democrats to support RFK Jr. And they're doing it publicly. That's all you need to know. Steve Bannon is doing this publicly.

Roger Stone praised him publicly. RFK Jr. went to one of those Reawaken America events that Mike Flynn runs around the country doing, like the craziest of the crazy things rfk reportedly interviewed for a job with trump in 2017 he wanted to do something on vaccines you see what trump said today too about him he's praising yeah trump's like he's a he's a great man he's a great man okay uh it's it's so fun did you see how swole rfk jr looked when he was lifting weights shirtless and yeah i just i want to pretend i hope i didn't see any of that i also just love yeah i just love the idea it's like right there yeah I know it's like uh you know uh the the there's uh the vaccines they have uh um lead in them from deep underground yeah yeah I'll take steroids from a failed actor with muscles in my neighborhood sure uh yeah so

because there aren't enough Florida men in the Republican primary uh the New York Times reports 70-year-old Senator Rick Scott is considering running for president, though his office then responded by saying he's still running for reelection in the Senate. Not a denial. What do you think? Is a rich hospital executive who wants to privatize Medicare and Social Security just the candidate the Republican Party needs? A rich hospital executive connected to massive health care fraud who wants to privatize social security who ran the senate republican campaign arm uh in a year where they uh lost

the senate who has the message instincts of the villain from seven is this my camera rick oh no don't listen to them oh no america needs you buddy he knew it was this i'm there look the way mitch mcconnell and these liberals disrespected you. There's one camera over there. It's insane. It's insane that Ron DeSantis would think he's the brightest star in Florida. Look at the camera if you're going to look at the camera. You're talking to Rick Scott. Don't look at us.

There's a sky full of stars. And I think I see you, buddy. The next president of the United States. Come on. Rick Scott. Okay, well, we wish you the best, Rick Scott. We wish you the best. Please run. All all right finally uh two pieces of great news you might remember the president biden got uh quite a bit of criticism from the left for supposedly abandoning railroad

workers after he signed legislation ending the strike that didn't include paid sick days because of republicans in congress uh well last the Railroad Workers Union announced that its members at the largest freight carriers finally have paid sick days. And the union specifically thanked the Biden administration for quietly pushing behind the scenes to make it happen. They thanked them for playing the long game and never giving up. Any lessons from this story? That John keeps a list and he's checking it twice. But I would say two things. I'm not naming names. I'll tell naming names i'll say two things about that i'll say two things about this

because i don't want to give them any fucking i think two points about this i think that there was two kinds of criticism from the left that joe biden received when this when the original uh uh deal was made one was i am disappointed that this deal doesn't include paid sick leave. I hope the Biden administration continues to work on it. The deal being when Biden and Congress enacted legislation to block the strike. To block the strike, to get them back to work, or to prevent them from going on strike the first time. That was one kind of criticism. Fine. There was another kind of criticism, which was, this is exactly what we can come to expect from Democrats who are corporate shills and evil, and this is corruption and every kind of assumption of bad from the railroads and every assumption of bad faith. Just some sign that,

you know, that Biden and Democrats are irretrievably corrupt and you can't trust anything they ever say. This is exactly what we always knew they were going to do that kind of like throw the baby out with the bathwater stuff. And I just would say, like, moving forward, the people that are, I think, critical, but still believe that there can be work done are better to listen to than the people who use every instance like this to to reinforce the same narrative. Yeah. The work of government doesn't usually progress on the same timetable as Twitter is one lesson. I also think, to your point, love it. The Biden administration deserves the presumption of

good faith. That doesn't mean they shouldn't be criticized when they make bad decisions, doesn't mean that we shouldn't push them to make good decisions, but it means that we should start with the assumption that their intentions are good, and if they're not making the progress we expect, there might be other reasons. Which, by the way, like, at the time, even the constructive criticism at the time, right, Congress sends Joe Biden a bill because there's a bunch of Republicans in Congress that stops the strike but doesn't give paid sick days. If Biden vetoes that legislation, he's not going to get the sick days. The strike's going to continue. Then there are people who are like, oh, he could just do executive action because this is the new thing.

When something doesn't happen that we want, it's, oh, Biden should do an executive action. Well, now we have faced many executive actions that are being currently challenged or have already been overturned by a right wing judiciary. Yes. Right. And so from the Biden administration's point of view, it's like, would I rather do an executive action that is probably going to get overturned by the judiciary? Or do I want to just keep pushing behind the scenes, try to negotiate and get the sick days? And that's what they did. And it was the right move, right? And so I think, again, like you can be critical, you can propose things, you can push them on stuff, but like there are usually,

if something's not getting done, more often than not, it's because there are constraints, political, legal, or otherwise, that either we don't know about or the Biden administration is just trying to work through and they're still trying to fight. Poor government is just slow sometimes. Yeah. And I wish it was faster too, but like you got to go to the outcome. I do. I do agree with that too.

It's like at this point too, like the Biden administration has earned the benefit of the doubt. They are, I think, far more progressive than even some of those progressive people could have ever hoped that they would be. Now, does that mean they're perfect? No. Does it mean they fight every fight the way you'd want to? No. But yeah. And I can look and I can tell this is coming with, you know, we're waiting for student loan relief decision from the Supreme Court. And there have already been proposals like, well, if they overturn this, then the Biden administration should just do another executive action. It's like, well, it's not going to work. It's not going to work. We need a new court or we need a majority in Congress to pass this legislation. And that's what we should work

for. Also, it's just one more annoying thing. It's about 100 times easier to find criticisms of Biden on the railroad workers thing than to find almost any story that they just praised him for getting the deal. Just in preparing for this i was like oh who wrote this up it was on twitter as the union put out a statement and i don't know almost no one wrote it up yeah typical all right last but not least uh when a big section of i-95 collapsed in philadelphia on june 11th experts predicted it would take months for the government to rebuild the highway but thanks to the biden administration governor josh shapiro and a lot of union workers it opened this weekend what do you

think is it time to bring back uh hashtag democrats deliver a couple points about this one jews get shit done that's all that's all i want to say that okay i don't know if i can say that in this country anymore depends on the audience but two We can build a highway in two weeks In this state of California It takes six months to get an environmental impact statement For a bike path It's just going to be a lane They don't have to move anything

There's no digging Just paint So we can build things really quickly So maybe we fucking should A highway in two weeks LAX has been a pit For years so we can build things really quickly. So maybe we fucking should. A highway in two weeks. Think about how long it takes. LAX has been a pit.

Oh my God. For years. There's a pit in the courtyard of our office we can't seem to fill. When we came back from New York, and I was trying to, it was insane. Yeah. Every day they put up another window.

What is happening with that airport? What's happening at LAX? Bring Josh Shapiro here. Josh Shapiro on that. Some kind of a czar. I don't care what it is. The Biden administration, though, whether it's the infrastructure bill,

Biden and Mitch Landrieu, who's sort of overseeing the infrastructure spending, plus Shapiro, they were all at a press conference about this, touting this, and I'm like, you know what? This is good. This is good. This is good. This is another one that's not going to get a ton of attention,

but that is... In Philly it will. In Philly it will. That's actually an important statement. I don't think we should be covering that out here, but yes, it would be great. Sure we should. We have problems of our own that we could be fixing. Gritty drove across, got Taco Bell, drove back. Alright, when we come back,

Tommy talks to the man who wants to finally get Ted Cruz out of the Senate, Texas Congressman Colin Allred. Colin Allred is a member of Congress and he's running for the U.S. Senate in Texas. Welcome to the show. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Thanks for being in L.A. You have the coolest path to Congress that I've heard of, which is via the NFL, which I want to get to later. But you are currently running against Ted Cruz, who I believe is a full-time podcaster. That's right. He's one of your main competitors.

You're a part-time senator. Does he show up still? I can't tell anymore. Um, we're very excited. We're supporting you. Obviously we're also big Beto O'Rourke fans here at Crooked Media. We threw our heart into that race in 2018. He fell a little short. What do you think makes Texas different this time? What's different about your race? Well, we're going to build on what Beto did. I think what Beto showed is that Texas is a place where change is possible. And the folks he got excited in 2018 was incredibly important. It's going to be important for this election. But I've never lost an election, and I don't plan on starting now. And I have experience beating Republicans. Back in 18, I ran against a 22-year incumbent Republican who had been unopposed

in 2016. At this time, before that election, no one thought I was going to win that race. This is a big flip. It's a big flip. And we ended up beating him by nearly seven points. So we know what we're doing. I think Texas is ready. But it's also true that Ted Cruz has shown that he's not serious about this job. As you said, he's a mostly full-time podcaster. He's podcasting three times a week. I don't even do that. It's my full-time job. Honestly, just think about representing 30 million Texans in the United States Senate, all the responsibilities that come with that, and finding time to demagogue three times a week. Or when you're not doing that, finding ways to get onto Fox News every chance

possible. But that's actually not the job. The job is to pass legislation to help Texans, to help the country. We can't afford six more years of him in Texas, but also the national level. I was there on January 6th, about 50 feet away from him when he was the senator who objected to the results in Arizona. I'm sitting there thinking, what does my own state senator know at all about what happened in the election in Arizona? And we know, of course, what happened that day. And we have to have a response to that. And I think we will. Were a lot of people kind of making their way over to you on January 6th, kind of introducing themselves for the first time? Because I feel

like you could have, like, look, the QAnon shaman was not going to get past you and pass protection or anything else. I have to say, anything physical that comes up in the House of Representatives, people look to me. But especially that day. You know, it's funny and it's not funny, right? I texted my wife, who was at home with our son, who was not yet two, and she was about seven months pregnant. And I sent her a text that I thought I'd never have to send in this job. You know, whatever happens, I love you. Oh, my God.

And I took off my jacket, which I've never done on the House floor. It's against our rules to remove your suit jacket. And I stood up and I was ready to defend my colleagues who, as you said, were going to need me to do it. From whatever came to that door, we had barricaded the door with furniture that we used to hold paper. whatever came to that door. We had barricaded the door with furniture that we used to hold paper. It's the ceremonial doors that the president walks through when the sergeant at arms says, you know, Madam Speaker, the President of the United States, it's that door. That's where the banging was and the glass was being broken. And folks like Ted Cruz, who whipped up that mob, have to be held accountable electorally. And that's what our chances in this election.

Yeah. It's important to remember his role in this whole thing is, boy, there were a lot of enablers that helped Donald Trump. Is it true that your campaign headquarters will be in Cancun? No. Although Ted Cruz thinks it's very funny that he jetted off to Cancun when 30 million Texans were freezing in the dark. He thinks he can laugh that off. I don't know how you, any politician laughs off a dereliction of duty that glaring and obvious. That's right. Over 240 Texans died and every Texan knows where they were when the power went out. And, you know, I was a Congressman at the time. I know how busy I was at that time. There was, you know, calls with FEMA, with state agencies, trying to direct resources, trying to find what we called warming centers. We're just basically places that have the power on where folks can

come get warm. And to think that that was a good time to go on vacation is just a perfect encapsulation of the way he sees the job. Yeah. So clearly you do the job better. So if you get to the Senate, we keep reading these horrible stories about the Supreme Court. They're accepting private jet flights and all kinds of like goodies from these billionaires. And then we keep reading their horrible rulings on all kinds of issues that are stripping away people's rights, like abortion rights. Do you support any Supreme Court reforms like term limits and things like that? Well, listen, you know, I actually represented Harlan Crow for the last four years. He's a constituent of mine. I know him. You've been to his museum? I've been to some properties of his. I don't think I've seen that. And I just think it's

ridiculous what we're looking at right now in terms of this being the most unaccountable body really in our government. All of the lower courts have some system of ethics, some code of conduct, and they're self-policing. And so we have to change that. I think that when it comes to the Supreme Court, the most important thing we can do is have 50 senators who will vote for Joe Biden's next nominees. Because as you know, we saw the last time Mitch McConnell was in charge of the United States Senate, how long, 11 months, he held open the seat that Mary Garland was nominated for. And I think that'll happen again. And so that's why it's so important that we win this election, because it could determine who controls the Senate. And we can.

That's one of the things that folks have to really, I think, understand and get on board with. This is a very winnable race. It's a tough race, but it's a winnable one, and we need your help. So if you're listening to this, go to ColinAllRed.com and get involved. So it's been about a little over a year since the Supreme Court stripped away abortion rights by overturning Roe v. Wade. President Biden is promising to codify Roe versus Wade into law. That would probably require getting rid of the filibuster in the Senate so that we can get to a vote so the Republicans couldn't block a vote. Is that something you'd consider doing?

Well, I've been calling for us to get rid of the filibuster. I was a voting rights lawyer before I came to Congress. And our big push in the last Congress, as you probably remember, was the John Lewis Voting Rights Act. I spoke with Senator Manchin about it. I was actually asked to give him a call and talk to him about it from a voting rights perspective. And I thought we had an agreement on moving to a speaking filibuster. a legacy of some of the darkest days of our country. But it's also at this point, just standing in the way of fundamental reforms that are necessary to keep our democracy thriving. And when you can't address voting rights, because you have to have 60 votes in a body that's determined by geography, then you're locking yourself into a future where you can't have any kind of legislative advancements. And we know the Supreme Court's not going to do it. And of course, I actually have been thinking this for some time,

that the model of relying on the courts to be sort of our advancer of our civil rights is long past. And we now have to do it through legislation. We had 50 votes in the Senate to do that in the last Congress, but not 50 votes to get rid of the filibuster. I will certainly not let the filibuster stand in the way of that or anything else. I think we will have to still work in a bipartisan way in the United States Senate. That's going to continue to be true. But I don't think that we should allow this supermajority threshold to stay in place. Yeah. The other thing that I imagine is probably really important to your constituents in Texas is immigration or immigration policy. I think for a lot of people in other parts of the country, it can feel like a problem that's

far away, right? Southern border is not where you live if you're in Michigan or something. For you guys, it's literally on your southern border. I saw a poll from last year that showed 52% of Texas voters supported busing migrants to other parts of the country. So clearly there's enormous frustration about, you know, feeling like this is a problem that's being put on Texas. What are you hearing from voters and what do you want to see President Biden or Congress do to solve the problem? Well, I have kind of a personal relationship with this because after the second world war, my grandfather fought in the Navy in the Pacific and then came back and was a customs officer in Brownsville, Texas, the very tip of Texas.

That's where my mom and my aunt grew up, went to high school. And then I spent most of my summers driving down my mom to Brownsville to see my grandmother there. And, you know, I think that when you talk about the border, it's not just a political backdrop, you know, and that's what I see Ted Cruz using it as is to go on almost like a political safari and, you know, be like in the bushes pointing out, you know, migrants. That literally happens. It literally happens. For those who don't know. You're a United States Senator. Yeah.

Where's your legislation to do something about it? How are you going to help these border communities deal with these surges, which, as you know, are driven by geopolitical forces, sometimes by climate change, sometimes by many factors, right? Venezuela's in collapse. Five million Venezuelans have left the country. We're seeing a lot of them showing up at the southern border. So we have to support those border communities much more. multiple administrations where the burden of these geopolitical impacts and of our inability to pass any kind of comprehensive immigration reform ends up falling on communities on the border that then have to have the Catholic charities maxed out, local communities maxed out,

people sleeping under the bridges, people sleeping on the street corners. And that's frustrating. But it doesn't have to be that way. As you know, we've had frameworks, both in the Bush administration and the Obama administration, around a comprehensive reform that would have billions of dollars for border security. Every country has to secure their own border, but that would also much better allow us to process folks who are seeking asylum, much better allow us, I think, to treat people consistent with our values, allow us, I think, to treat people consistent with our values, which is the kind of false dichotomy that I see Ted Cruz and others setting up, which is that if we're going to have an immigration system, it either has to be so harsh that it's completely out of whack with our values that we are going to try and make it so hard and mean for folks. Separating families. Yeah, that they're not going to want to come, which we know from the situations they're leaving, that's not going to work. Right. Or that we can't do anything at all. That's just not true. We can do something about this. And

so that's my frustration, I think, on the issue by and large is that it's been used as such a political divider. But we pretty much know what we need to do to address it. And we need a senator from Texas who will do that. We know Ted Cruz won't. Yeah. I mean, one thing I wonder about, I worked in the, we both worked in the Obama administration. I was on the foreign policy side. I saw the administration use sanctions to punish countries frequently. Currently, the US is sanctioning the hell out of Venezuela, which you mentioned, I think a quarter of the population

has left the country in recent years. Do you think, I mean, what do you think about sort of the international? We talk a lot about the border. Are there things you would like to see Joe Biden or any president do like sanctions relief for Venezuela

or Cuba or other places that might kind of reduce the flow of migration? Well, I remember when in the Trump administration, they cut foreign aid to the northern tribal countries because they weren't doing enough to stop migration. And it's like, do you understand that cutting that aid is going to increase migration from these countries?

I mean, we do have a role to play, certainly, in helping to stabilize, particularly the countries that are in our own backyard. And I think that when we're talking about the competition with China globally, great power competition, the global South is where that competition is being held. And that includes our own hemisphere in South America and Central America, where the Chinese are making big investments. And we need to be on the field and playing a productive role, helping as much as we can to be a stabilizing force. And yes, looking at things like our sanctions policy and how that's contributing

to some of this suffering, but also seeing the programs that we know have worked around the world and applying them in our own hemisphere. And so to me, we're not going to be able to solve all the problems of the countries that are around us, but we certainly shouldn't be contributing to their problems. Yeah. Like I mentioned earlier, this amazing path of the NFL to Congress, but you also worked in the Obama administration at HUD. You also, you went from the NFL to get your law degree, right?

At Berkeley, I believe. Yeah, that's right. Can you talk a little bit, like, what were you doing at HUD as a civil rights lawyer? Like, what was that work like? Yeah. Well, I took a normal route to Congress, you know, I was raised by a single mother, played in the NFL, went to law school and became a civil rights lawyer? Like, what was that work like? Yeah. Well, I took a normal route to Congress. You know, I was raised by a single mother, played in the NFL, went to law school, and became a civil rights lawyer, right?

You know, just the normal route. Well, I had spent my last year of law school basically working in the administration, like in the White House Counsel's Office under Kathy Rumler, and then DOJ under Rod Rosenstein, at that time, well-respected U.S. attorney. Oh, he led one of the leak investigation cases that I had to get interviewed for. I didn't do

anything wrong. I was absolved. Someone else was indicted and scared the shit out of me. So I know Rod, yeah. Yeah, he was the U.S. attorney there. And then I was doing my voting rights work and was asked to come back into the administration as an appointee at HUD in the general counsel's office. And basically trying to tie together different programs and make sure that the trains were running on time and kept everything legal. And I was working there with another Texan, Leon Castro, who I was very proud of and was proud to work under him. And, you know, we, when the transition came, I remember preparing a lot of documents, particularly around ethics and

Hatch Act and things like that for the incoming administration thinking, they're not going to read any of this stuff, you know, but it was a lot worse actually than I could have even, you know, imagined. And, you know, it was an honor for me, you know, to serve in the Obama administration. I know you feel the same way. Obviously, you run the campaign. But, you know, as an African American, you know, to serve in the first black president's administration, it's something that, you know, I'll always just cherish. Yeah, I feel incredibly lucky to have met the guy and then got to work there. So broader question about the Democratic Party.

We have been struggling with getting support from young men of all races. That's right. I don't know if there's a single reason, but it does seem to coincide with the rise of these horrible characters like Andrew Tate or Jordan Peterson'd preach these deeply misogynistic worldviews. You played in the NFL. I don't think that Ben Shapiro is going to hear this conversation and call you like a beta male soy boy or something. He probably shouldn't. Did football teach you anything about how politicians can communicate with and lead young men and convince them to sort of steer away from these toxic speakers? That's right. That's such a good question. Not only did I play in the NFL, I was a linebacker

in the NFL. So come at me if you want to have a conversation about masculinity on that front, right? But you're exactly right. There are so many toxic examples out there. One of the things I've been most proud of in my time in Congress has been that I was the first member of Congress to ever take paternity leave. And I talked about it very openly. I said, I'm going to take paternity leave. And just under the kind of pretense that, well, if a former NFL linebacker can do it, then maybe it'll make it easier for some other man in some other field to do it. And I took paternity leave twice. I didn't know I was going to be the first.

I just thought it was the right thing to do. And then you see something like what happened when Secretary Buttigieg took paternity leave because his twins were in the emergency room. And they're saying, well, you didn't have the baby. Much worse than that, of course. Horrible things, yeah. And I think, what is wrong with this culture around men? That's the conversation that we of course. Horrible things, yeah. And I think, you know, what is wrong with this culture

around men? That's the conversation that we're having. But I know that we have to have examples. And I think, you know, one thing that people, I think, don't realize about athletes and my experience in the NFL is that there's a lot of really decent guys who are very productive and do good work in their communities, who are thoughtful, who want to be productive citizens, who've overcome tremendous things to get to where they are. And they have nothing in common, by and large, with these idiots you see taking pictures of themselves with expensive cars and spreading these worse versions of what it is to be a man. And if I can be an example to counter that, I will. But trust me, if you think that, as Donald Trump said, that that was just locker room talk, the way he was talking about women, that's not been my experience, and I spent most of my life in locker rooms. And there is a much better and different way.

And we just have to have examples to model it. And we have to be out there and out front. And you're right, though. We have had an issue with young men feeling like this democracy is for them as well. And so that's one of the things I've been working on since before I came to office. And I'm going to keep working on it. That, as President Obama used to say, this is not a spectator sport. You're not just watching it. You got to be engaged. If you're not at the table,

you're going to be on the menu. Uh, and so that's going to be something we certainly focus on our campaign. That's great. I mean, Ted Cruz, by the way, has also been a real spreader of these kinds of views. I mean, his co-host,-host for his podcast, but he's also one of the guys who would retweet the videos that people would make of like some Russian military propaganda film compared to a US Army recruiting film where they're trying to be inclusive and be like, oh boy, you know, the, of course we would lose in a war. Fast forward two years and the Russian military is getting this clock cleaned by the Ukrainians, right? I mean, it's just so ludicrous. Right. Exactly. And we have a diverse military where, you know, you've got to get along with

folks who come from a different background than you do. And that's the same thing in sports. And one of the things I noticed immediately about some folks is that who were not athletes is when they just have no ability, you know, to get along with others. You know, I mean, I kind of feel like it should be a requirement to have to do some kind of team activity if you're going to be a legislator, right? But you're right. I mean, this idea that in order to be effective, you have to have this kind of like, you know, stylized, fake, you know, just completely, I think, counterproductive version of masculinity or toughness or whatever word you want to use.

That's just not true. And, you know, Ted Cruz was a debater. I was captain of the Baylor football team, you know. So I think I know where I'm coming from on that. Yeah, Ted could barely beat Jimmy Kimmel in basketball. So you mentioned you played at Baylor. It's like a real deal D1 program. Shout out RG3, Robert Griffin III. Four seasons in the NFL for the Tennessee Titans. Was playing in the NFL a lifelong dream? Yes and no. I think that I didn't think that

I was going to be able to play in the NFL. I was all ready to go to law school and basically started getting calls and was convinced that I was going to have a chance. And I was like, well, you should talk to my teammates. He's going to be good. And they're like, no, no, you're going to have a chance. We want to represent you in the NFL. And so finally I decided to give it a shot. And while I was playing, I was deferring my law school admission. And until finally they told me me just reapply when I got done. And I remember I hurt my neck. So I played four seasons, but I was in the NFL for five years. It was in my fifth year, my fifth game against the Cowboys in Dallas.

My family's in the stands. And I get hit the wrong way. Not a big hit, but the wrong kind of a hit. And my whole right side is basically shut down. and I knew I'd had a neck issue and I'm lying on the turf probably the only person who's ever had this happen before thinking yeah I'm so ready to go to law school you know like I mean you're just okay I think I think I've proved something here that's time to move yeah you prove something here I mean that's an amazing story I think a lot of people get talked into trying to try out for teams, but to make it and to play for four years. I mean, you knew Reggie Love, I imagine, Barack Obama's body guy, played at Duke,

played football and basketball. I think he got talked into, yeah, great athlete, like one of the best athletes I've ever known, got talked into, I think, coming to Cowboys camp and playing linebacker. And he said he went and tried to hit some running back and just got his clock clean. He was like, I don't know that I can do this. I can see Reggie telling that story. Yeah. And it happened. What's tougher, covering a tight end or a running back out of the backfield?

Definitely a running back. I think tight ends are glorified offensive tackles. Those are fighting words. Tied-ins are glorified offensive tackles. Those are fighting words. I've heard some influential people in sports media suggest that Ohio State uses a field for their pro days that might be slightly shorter than 40 yards, which is why you see Buckeye players putting up these blistering 40 times on their NFL pro days. Have you heard these theories, and would you consider holding hearings on 40-time fraud? NFL Pro Days, have you heard these theories and would you consider holding hearings on 40-time fraud? Listen, having played against the Patriots, I put nothing past anybody.

Urban Meyer too. I mean, my God. That's right. That's right. Yeah. Who is the best linebacker ever? I think still probably Singletary maybe, but the best I'd ever seen was Patrick Willis. He was incredible. Really? Yeah. No Junior Seau, no Terrell Suggs, no Ray Lewis? Well, yeah. I mean, I think Ray Lewis is probably a bigger Singletary. I think he's probably the prototype of the modern inside linebacker. But, I mean, if Willis had played longer,

we'd be talking about him as one of the all-time greats. I was going to ask you about a 2009 game where the Titans played the Patriots and lost 59-0, but I decided not to do that. It's funny. I had just come back from a neck injury, and I was like out there in the snow, and we could not hang on to the ball to save

our lives. It's like it had you know, I don't know, oil on it or something, and Tom and Randy are out there just playing pitch and catch. And I'm like, you know, what's going on? And of course, a few years later, I hear that maybe the ball was deflated. No, but seriously, that team was so good. They set every record. And, you know, I still, I think it's thrilling. I got to play against Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, some of the best quarterbacks in the history of the game.

Final question for you. If you win, have you thought about launching a big and tall caucus with John Fetterman, maybe John Tester? We're calling Cock-Hoss, Hoss Caucus. We're spitballing. When I win, I will definitely do that. We also will have a very large and growing bald men caucus. Although historically that's probably been the case, right? That's a good, that's a well-worn group of men. Congressman Allred, thank you for coming in.

Remind us where we can go to help the campaign out. Well, listen, we can win this race, but we need your help. So if you care about 30 million Texans getting the representation they deserve, go to ColinAllRed.com or text Texas to 90678. Perfect. Thanks for coming in. Yeah, thanks for having me. Okay, before we go, we have some feuds to adjudicate. Stop talking. Sometimes the... I'm sorry.

Here's a new one. I was going for a feud. I was going for a feud vibe. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy is your friend. Sometimes the enemy of your enemy means two people who suck are right about each other and little else. Far-right it girls Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert are trash-talking each other publicly after MTG. Far-right it girls Marjorie Taylor Greene and Lauren Boebert are trash-talking each other publicly after MTG called Boebert a little bitch on the House floor for copying her articles of impeachment. Let's take a listen.

Congresswoman Greene claims you copied her resolution. Yeah, I'm not in middle school. Can you comment on the report that she cursed at you on the floor? Like I said, I'm not in middle school. Meanwhile, the boys are fighting too. Last week, Elon Musk was making fun of Meta's upcoming Twitter rival threads when a fan warned him about Zuck's martial arts prowess. Musk responded, I'm up for a cage match if he is lol and zuckerberg took the bait posting on instagram send me location ultimate fighting champion president dana white's proclaimed the that both these guys are absolutely dead serious but then after elon musk's mother seemed

to put the kibosh on the whole thing that's real i missed that part people thought his mom was canceling the fight but then elon tweeted and this is also real, Mom, I'm fighting him. Stop it. Did you know that? No, I did not know that. The point is, we live in hell, but maybe hell has an octagon because the worst people

you know are fighting. So we're going to play a game we're calling Billion Dollar Baby. I'm going to give you a current matchup and you have to tell us who would win that fight.

Basically, you have to pick a winner and say how many rounds it would take from one to nine. Okay. Round one, you think it's a quick knockout, not even close. But if you think it would go all the way to 10 rounds, then you're calling it a draw.

And basically, they fight until they both collapse into the arms of their trainers, who several of them are also trying to date. Could we just say draw instead of 10? Yeah, you could say draw. So less confusing. Yeah, it's one to nine or draw. Good.

That's what I was getting at. Great. Thanks for helping me. No problem. Hey, thanks for making me better, Tommy. First up... Sorry about my sports ball. Lauren Boebert versus MTG on one... On one hand, MTG is into CrossFit and is already

so enraged she's shit-talking Lauren Boebert in the press like she's Stone Cold Steve Austin, squaring off against someone called the Bret Hartman Hit. Hitman Hart. Bret the Hitman Hart. A reference I get. Wrestler. On the other hand, Lauren Boebert co-sponsored a bill with George Santos to make the AR-15 the national gun.

So you know she's loca. And that goes a long way in a one-on-one brawl. There is a correct answer, by the way. I think Marjorie Taylor Greene would fucking wipe the floor with her in two rounds. Have you seen the video of MTG doing those crazy CrossFit pull-ups where it looks like you're going to rip your shoulders out every single time? It's called kipping. I wouldn't mess with her.

It's called kipping. Kipping. One round MTG. Bobert's done. The crooked community thinks 90% MTGV. That is correct. However, John gets the point because it is round two. Because round one, MTG just toys with her like a kitten.

And then round two, she beats the ever-loving Jennifer. Sorry. That's what happens. I can see that. That's what happens. Okay, round two. So point goes to John there. Round two, it's billionaires versus the ocean.

Here's why. Jesus. In a submersible, the ocean's going to win every time. But on the board of a multinational corporation extracting value from carbon-based fuels deep in the ground, billionaires are getting a lot of rounds in. Okay. I'm saying that you put the billionaire in the ocean, the ocean wins. Right.

Billionaire from the safety of land can kill the ocean. Right. So you have to decide. Now they're facing off over the long term. Who is facing off? Billionaires versus the ocean. Oh, billionaires. Billionaires.

All billionaires. All billionaires. Versus the ocean. Who's going to win in the off? Billionaires versus the ocean. Oh, billionaires. Billionaires. All billionaires. All billionaires. Versus the ocean. Who's going to win in the end? When the billionaires go in the ocean, no good, famously, lately. But the oceans themselves, the billionaires from the land, are launching an attack over time. Okay. Right, right, right.

So I'm going to say I think that the ocean wins in the eighth round because that ocean is coming for us all. And it's going to hit the most expensive beachfront property first where the billionaires live. So they're all going to drown. See, I think the billionaires are going to win because while the oceans end up swallowing all of us and all life on this earth, the billionaires are going to escape to Mars. Wow. Or seasteading. But I think that's like round nine. Point goes to Tommy. The oceans are going to win.

Oh, wait. Yeah. The oceans are going to win. But it's in... Wait. What did you think was going to win? I think the billionaires are going to win because they're going to escape. They're just going to leave the planet.

No. Tommy gets this one. The oceans are actually going to win in round nine, technically. It won't be pretty, but the oceans will survive and ultimately thrive. Sweet. Elon Musk tweeted the other day, there is a slight chance he will end his life on Mars.

He will end up on Mars. With any luck. Mark Zuckerberg would kick his ass, though. That's what's next. Oh, okay. That's what's next. Sorry, you put the oceans in there. Zuckerberg would kick his ass though. That's what's next. Oh, okay. That's what's next. That's what's next. Sorry.

You put the oceans in there. I'm alternating. I'm alternating abstract. I'm doing the data ones in the middle of the real ones. Trust the process as Dan would say. Uh, next up, Mark Zuckerberg versus Elon Musk in the octagon.

Things to consider. Elon is 51. Zuck is 39. Musk weighs an estimated 187 pounds and Zuckerberg less than 154 pounds. Zuck is a white belt in jujitsu while Elon spends a little every day tweeting in reply to bigoted tweets. And he's not doing that from one of those, you know,

treadmill desks probably. On the other hand, maybe, you know, if you're in charge of deciding when Zuckerberg gets a new belt, what are you going to, you're going to make him, you're going to, you're going to say no?

You want to keep those? Oh, you think, oh, you think he doesn't deserve his belt? I don't know, but I'm just saying it's easier to give him the belt than say you haven't earned it yet. We also think that he took an involuntary nap while doing jujitsu. He choked out. Yeah, he lost consciousness. But then the Facebook PR people were quick to say, no, that's not true.

He didn't lose consciousness. He was just grunting or something like that. Here's the thing about jujitsu. It's not a boxing match where you just punch each other out until you win. It's like weird pressure points and twisting your arms in ways until you have to tap out. That requires training and knowledge,

and I think Mark would kick his ass. Elon is also a soft wimp. He just comes through in every fucking tweet. Mark Zuckerberg will kick his ass. How many rounds, what do you think? Three for me. Yeah, two. I'll go two.

Tommy takes it. It was round three. That's when it's going to happen. Though technically, but actually, you know what? I'm going to give it to both of you. That's going to be a tie because John got at the essential point, which technically Elon's going to happen. Though technically, but actually, you know what? I'm going to give it to both of you. That's going to be a tie because Jon got at the essential point, which technically Elon is going to quit. They're going to dance around each other for two rounds.

And the second it gets real in the third round, Elon's going to take one hit of some kind, and then he's going to have like a knee problem. And then he's going on Twitter and say he wishes he could reschedule because it's been hard to find the time to get the real fight back on the books. Yeah, that's good. I'll do it on Twitter, unfortunately. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Next up, and finally we have ron desantis versus eye contact ron desantis versus eye contact i don't know how to judge this who's gonna win who's gonna win in a fight that's the question uh you know the one on the one hand i mean ron desantis is not going to win anything right which means that's right eye contact will win well the thing is that you know one of the most important things standing between ron desantis and political success is his ability to relate to another person right and so all the ambition in the world is it enough to teach him how to fake knowing how to interact one-on-one with another human being that's the question before us that's tough no yeah i don't think so either how many rounds

what are rounds i think he's gonna go in five eye contact wins in five i actually because he has so much money and is still like second in the primary i think it could go i'm gonna say nine rounds wow wow um i'm gonna give it to john john takes that one that's gonna take someone putting in the primary. I think it could go, I'm going to say nine rounds. Wow. Wow. I'm going to give it to John. John takes that one. That's when it takes the one putting you both at a tie. The question is basically it will be round nine,

which will be after New Hampshire. It has to be after. How is round nine after New Hampshire? Well, it's going to be the second primary and then there's a general election. What is this rounding?

Rules are capricious. Outrageous. This fucking time machine telling us who wins. Unbelievable. I'm just saying telling us who wins. Unbelievable. I'm just saying, that's what happened. That's what happened in the battle. I can't believe you don't agree with my judgment as to who would win in a fight between eye

contact and Ron DeSantis and when the victory takes place. How dare you? How dare you insult my methods? I apologize. And that's been Billion Dollar Baby. That's too early on the fucking bells, Ben. No tiebreaker? No tiebreaker?

Yeah. All right. Here's a tiebreaker. All right. Here's a tiebreaker the fucking bells, Ben. No tiebreaker? No tiebreaker. Yeah, all right. Here's a tiebreaker. All right. Here's a tiebreaker. I asked for it. Here's a tiebreaker on the fly. Me versus Dan. In a fist fight?

It's a... I think we have gloves. Mathlete? It's gloves. Just boxing. Let me tell you why this is hard. This is hard. Because I want to pick Dan, but if I pick Dan, I'm definitely not going to win

because you just decide. Future me. Love it, you'd wipe the floor with him in one round. I think you would give Dan a run for his money, but he's got the reach and he would beat you in the ninth round. But everyone would come out saying, Love it was the real winner. Tommy tried to go with being a straight shooter.

Love it won the moral winner. Tommy tried to appeal to the straight shooter. Yeah, it'd be like Rudy. So, it's interesting. I think Tommy's closer for sure. I think the question is, I've got those crazy eyes. And does that come out?

Is there a demon inside of me? Because there might be. There might be. And I don't know if there's a demon inside Dan. Have you done any fist fighting in your life? These are for writing. These are for writing and signaling. Are they for writing?

High school happens, you know what I mean? Well, they're more for writing than they are for punching. More for hand waving? The game is over. Thanks to Colin Allred for joining us. Talk about a guy who would kick our asses. Thanks to the guy who wins in fight, Colin Allred for joining us. Talk about a guy who would kick our asses. Thanks to the guy who wins in fight, Colin Allred. Bye, everyone.

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