Pod Save America - Speaker Jim Jordan?

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

President Biden prepares to visit Israel as he tries to prevent a wider war and humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Trump’s opponents attack him for criticizing Israel, and Judge Tanya Chutkan hits him with a gag order. Republicans inch closer to making election-denier Jim Jordan Speaker. House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries joins to discuss the Democrats’ plan to address the chaos in Congress, and Crooked’s own political expert Shaniqua McClendon drops by to talk about the most important races in 2023.Get your virtual tickets to Pod Save America live from DC now at MOMENT.CO/PSA.Correction: the episode states that election day is four weeks away, but it is three weeks away, on November 7th. Visit votesaveamerica.com to learn more.

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett, pro-temporary. I'm Tommy Vitor. Oh boy. Dumb Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett, pro-temporary. I'm Tommy Vitor. Oh boy. Dumb thing I started. Not really. Quick note before we begin. If you can't make our live show in D.C. this Thursday night, the good news is that we'll be live streaming the event on Moment.co.

It's going to be a great show. We've got Jon Fetterman, Jose Andres, Virginia State Senator Jennifer Carol Foy, and guest host Simone Sanders. Hey, what a lineup. What a lineup. You can get your virtual tickets at moment.co.psa. On today's show, we're going to talk about House Republicans inching closer to making Jim Jordan Speaker of the House. Sucks to say out loud. Sucks.

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries will join to talk about the Democrats' plan. And Crooked's own political guru, Shaniqua McClendon, will stop by to talk about the big 2023 races we're watching for an election that's exactly four weeks from today. But first, let's start with the Israel-Hamas war and how it's affecting U.S. politics. Hamas has killed more than 1,300 people in Israel and taken nearly 200 hostages. Hamas has killed more than 1,300 people in Israel and taken nearly 200 hostages. Israeli retaliatory strikes have killed at least 2,800 people, and the government has ordered more than half a million in northern Gaza to evacuate their homes in preparation for an imminent ground invasion. The U.S. and other governments are trying to prevent the humanitarian crisis in Gaza from getting worse and stop the war from expanding. President Biden talked about this in a sit- with 60 minutes. Let's listen. Are you asking Israel to establish a humanitarian corridor in that area or get humanitarian supplies? Yes, our team is talking about that and whether there could be a safe zone. We're also talking with the Egyptians. You would like to see humanitarian supplies brought into Gaza?

Yes. I'm confident that there's going to be an ability for the innocents in Gaza to be able to have access to medicine and food and water. Would you support Israeli occupation of Gaza at this point? I think it would be a big mistake. Do you believe that Hamas must be eliminated entirely? Yes, I do. But there needs to be a Palestinian authority. There needs to be a path to a Palestinian state. So it seems like Biden's attempting to thread quite a needle in

both his public statements and the U.S. response. He sounded a bit more forward leaning there on urging restraint and the protection of civilians. But I'm not I'm not sure what, if any, effect that will have on the Israeli response. Tommy, what's your takeaway from that interview and what the administration's trying to achieve right now? The goals, I think, you know, they're trying to show unwavering support for Israel after this, you know, horrific horrific historic trauma that they just went through. I think Biden is also trying to warn other parties in the Middle East, specifically Hezbollah and Iran, not to get involved. So you're hearing that rhetorically, and you're also seeing it when he redirected two aircraft carriers to the region, saying like, do not fuck around or you'll find out. And then you're beginning to hear some of this messaging about the humanitarian situation in

Gaza. I would like to hear a lot more of that. I would like to hear that message backstopped by some pressure on Netanyahu publicly and privately, preferably for at least a temporary ceasefire to allow in some humanitarian relief. I'm glad to hear Biden say that he doesn't want Israel to reoccupy Gaza militarily. I think that would be frankly impossible to do and a disaster for everyone involved. And then I mean, obviously domestically, he's trying to show everyone who's turning on the TV, scared to death, hearing about another massive war that he's on top of the situation. And I think, you know, to the extent that there are kind of like big tools in your toolkit as a communications person, like a 60 minutes interview actually is one in terms of

what's available now, right? The Deion Sanders episode recently got almost 12 million viewers. So I think it was smart to do this now because he probably reached a lot of people. What'd you think of the interview? I was, I was surprised to see that he was doing it so quickly. It seems like they would, they, they got it together really quick, really fast. And I, my, what I was thinking when I was watching it, honestly, was imagine Donald Trump during this moment. I know we'll get to it, but that was entirely, that was my thought. And it was the other piece of it. I like, you know, we do this show Monday.

I try to step away from this news over the weekend. And every Monday, I feel like I'm now reentering this and like kind of just sort of this awful, awful conflict. And you see Joe Biden there and you see someone who really has been kind of training their whole life to be in this situation. And it's I know I don't know how you feel about this, but like even just seeing like Tony Blinken and Jake Sullivan. Like these are people we know. These are people we've known for a really long time. People we know to be kind of like ethical, thoughtful, compassionate people who got into politics for the right reasons, who have thought about what they would do if they were ever in a situation like this. And now they find themselves in it, trying to navigate this, trying to show support for Israel in the wake of this attack, while at

the same time believing deeply that it's not just a humanitarian necessity to urge restraint on the part of Israel, but also ultimately in Israel's interest to not have a bloody and unending siege in Gaza without end, and one that alienates it further from its neighbors and from Palestinians. Yeah. Did you guys watch the episode? The other part of it was, I mentioned, I think last week, my friend Amir T-Bone, who's a reporter for Haaretz, they interviewed him, his wife and his father. The father being a retired Israeli general who literally got in his car with a pistol and his wife drove down saved a shitload of people along the way and then rescued his son it's like the most amazing story you've

ever seen yeah no it is and um i do wonder like you know we're going to talk about the polls in a little bit but like the just the the percentage of americans following the story closely is you know in the 70s 80s right so i i i do wonder like what kind of ratings that 60 like how many people would see that 60 minutes interview and obviously you'd be deeply affected not only by joe biden but but the the story that you just mentioned as well tommy because it is you know i i have i don't watch a lot of i keep up with the news on on twitter or other places online but i don't like watch a lot of tv and when you start watching TV about the crisis, which I only do when there are big, big stories like this, it really becomes a more affecting sort of story about what happened in Israel, the massacre, the response, the plight of Palestinian civilians right now. Like it's actually, it's much more emotional when you watch it on TV than when you just read about it as well. Oh, God, yes.

Yeah, well, I mean, look, cable news was born in war and it was, this is its medium. So two administration officials told Politico that Biden is weighing a trip to Israel, strongly considering is the latest that I saw now. Obviously, that would be quite a show of support and it would be a sleepy basement Joe's second visit to a live war zone. But it would also obviously align him more closely with Israel's response and carry plenty of risks, both to his security and political standing. What do you guys think about the prospect of a visit? Look, my immediate, completely cynical political take was Joe Biden's approval rating on how he managed Ukraine has gone up over the course of that war. One of his best moments as president was when he traveled to Ukraine.

I think there is value to seeing Joe Biden at his best in that way as America's representative abroad. And I think you can justify whatever political value there is in that in the hopes that a visit from the American president to Israel could do two things. One is create pressure on Israel from the United States in terms of its humanitarian response in Gaza, that that message could be delivered more powerfully in person and at the same time show America's support for Israel in the region. Those things are in some sense in conflict, but I don't think should be. So my anxiety spiked in the region. Those things are in some sense in conflict, but I don't think should be. So my anxiety spiked in the exact opposite direction because I was thinking about when Biden went to Ukraine, obviously it was logistically very difficult, right? You fly to,

I think you fly to Poland, you took a 10 hour train ride, shows up in Kiev. But before he got there, we were able to tell the Russians, hey, President of the United States is going to Kiev. Do not do anything stupid or you will be nuked, essentially. I think that kind of- You think we have that line open with Hamas? I mean, I don't know that that kind of mutually assured destruction message works with kind of quasi-governmental terrorist groups like Hamas or Hezbollah. I think they would love it. Picking off an American president would be the greatest thing that ever happened in the organization. So I also think like a U.S.

presidential visit is very resource intensive for the host country. I think in the near term, at least, anything Biden says in the U.S. will get a ton of pickup in Israel. I think Tony Blinken's first visit was received incredibly well. He's back there right now as we speak. Lloyd Austin, the Secretary of Defense, just went. But when Tony and Netanyahu were meeting, they had to leave their meeting and go to a bomb shelter. So it is literally not safe. So my advice would be pump the brakes on foreign travel for a little bit, maybe go later. But I hear what you're saying, Levitt. I absolutely think it would endear Biden to the Israeli people in a very meaningful way. I also think it might lead us to owning the results of this, you know, IDF offensive in a way that we might not be very

uncomfortable with. Yeah, that's my anxiety as well. And just thinking about how obviously the people of Israel have rallied together at a time like this because of the horrific massacre, but that hasn't yet translated to more approval of Netanyahu. In fact, it's translated to less approval of Netanyahu. And I'm just wondering about images of Biden and Bibi together and how that wears over time. Yeah, I think you see, you guys, you talked about this on Pod Save the World, you know, we've talked about this here, that you see that there is a nuance in how Israelis are responding, on policy of the world, you know, we've talked about this here that you see that there is a nuance in how Israelis are responding, broadly supportive, you know, rallying together, but at the same time, angry at the Netanyahu government for allowing this to happen. I think there's a

way for Joe Biden to show his support for Israel and stand with the Prime Minister of Israel while at the same time not signaling total unwavering support for that government specifically. I mean, there was a... Maybe not like his arm around him in the photo. Yeah, I don't think so. But there was a, you know, like, look, like, it is, there was a story in the Times, the, Gal Hirsch, who's the retired general who's been appointed to kind of oversee and coordinate the response with families around hostages. They met with families in the basement of a Tel Aviv parking lot. And he was discussing about, he said, you know, this is going to take time. And he said something like, you'll have my, you have my number. And he started to leave.

And these members of this family started shouting, the government is blowing up its citizens. The government is blowing up its own citizens. There is a, like, there is this sort of like primal scream in this response. And at the same time, inside of Israel, there is a deep uncertainty, discomfort with what is happening as well. And I don't think, I think that that can, the American president showing support for Israel and its right to exist and its right to defend itself joe biden probably really wants to go to israel and he probably will eventually but just in terms of your your point about uh netanyahu's polling there was a recent poll where they asked who would you rather see as prime minister netanyahu or someone else anyone else they didn't name anybody else two-thirds chose someone else without even knowing who it would be and i think 21 percent joe biden's like someone else is uh he's bugging me in the united states, someone else is bugging me in the United States, too. Someone else is everywhere. We've got to stop this someone else.

What's their secret? Macron's like, someone else? He's getting me, too? Only 75% want someone else? What's your secret? Zut alors. Yeah. Anyway.

Someone else is stalking center-right leaders everywhere. Right-wing leaders all over the place. Yeah. Anyway, speaking of polls, multiple polls taken since the attack are all generally saying the same thing. Most Americans, healthy majority of Americans favor U.S. support for Israel. But that hasn't yet translated to majority support for Biden's handling of the crisis. What do you guys make of those polls? Dan suggested in his latest message box that Biden

should sort of lean into the contrast between the seriousness of his response and the unseriousness of the Republican Party, which I think is right. What do you guys think? Yeah, I mean, you know, Trump said, repeatedly said how smart Hezbollah is. He attacked Bibi Ninjahu for not being part of a counter ISIS operation that they were never asked to be a part of, I don't think. And he called the Israeli defense minister a jerk. So I would absolutely highlight that. You can also sort of layer in the congressional dysfunction and maybe make that a part of the part of the TV ad or whatever it is. I think, you know, if Biden does a campaign event, he's talking about this situation. I mean,

you probably want to be careful not to be seen as politicizing what's happening, even if Donald Trump is. But, you know, the Trump message is going to be like, this never would happen if I was president. So it's just hard to dispute that. Ultimately, I think, though, people are turning on the TV and they're seeing scary things and they want it fixed. You know what I mean? And I think that's where you're going to drive the most political benefit, whether you certainly want to contrast your opponent as you get closer to the election. But I think in the near term, it's like, I don't know, man, we got to like, get a lid on this thing. Have people not seeing, you know, horrific images coming out of Gaza of kids being killed. I mean, that would be my focus. So one thing I took away from some of the polling, so nearly all Americans, 84%, express at least some sympathy for both Israeli and Palestinian people as they face ongoing fighting, which is just a reminder that, as always, the tenor of what is taking place online and the loudest about, it's how much harder for people that aren't paying close attention, who understand how sensitive it is, who see the kind of incredible emotion and intensity people bring to it. So that's one piece of this. One thing I found that sort of stopped me when I was looking at the polling is, so there's broad support in the United States that Israel's response is in some way

justified, either fully or partially, but it breaks down by age. 81% of those age 65 and older see Israel's response as fully justified. Only 27% of 18 to 34-year-olds see it as fully justified. Now, there's a big majority that views it at least partially justified. That's sort of broad-based. But I think there's something in that fully, which is sort of, I think, about the kind of ambivalence around U.S. support for Israel that grows as you get younger and as you move from right to left. And I think that does tell you something about how the politics of this issue are changing. And also that there are arguments that just aren't being made. And there are these sort of two poles. You see it in Congress, right? There is this bipartisan resolution supported by a lot of people that is exclusively around support for Israel in the wake of the attack. Then you have this resolution by Cori Bush and Rashida Tlaib and others that is about calling for a ceasefire. These kind of resolutions, what are they worth? I don't know. But they are speaking past one another.

know, but they are speaking past one another. And I do think that there are these sort of, in this big middle, there is this part of the conversation that isn't happening, which is, I think, mistrust on the side of people who believe in Israel's right to exist and to defend itself, that those who are agonizing righteously and correctly on behalf of the Palestinians do so without appreciating or recognizing the security needs and just simply the right of Israel to exist. And on the other side, I think that there is fear and concern and mistrust on the part of those who are worried rightly about what is happening in Gaza, that there is not enough compassion and worry for the people of Gaza by those who are advocating for Israel's right to defend itself.

And I think that when you look at these numbers and you see that a lot of young people are watching this and just don't feel fully behind, don't don't believe that Israel's defense of itself is fully justified, which I think there's legitimate reasons to not believe it is fully justified, whatever that term means. It tells me that there is a kind of conversation that isn't having a kind of shorthand in our politics about why the US supports Israel, why the United States has had this policy for so long, why those of us who believe in Israel's right to exist and its importance, who believe in a Jewish and democratic state, also believe that Israel showing restraint and protecting the rights of people in the Palestinian territories to live and exist and

have the chance of a better life is part of how you support Israel's right to exist. Yeah. And look, I think the fact that so many young people are part of the Democratic Party's coalition of voters speaks to why Joe Biden's approval rating on the issue is not higher. I think that's one factor, at least. I think the other factor is Joe Biden's approval ratings are just low. And if you look at his approval rating on almost every issue they tested in these polls, his handling on Israel Hamas is actually slightly higher than other issues slightly, but they're all Ukraine is part of his bad. Yeah. Border security, the economy,

like it's just all very low right now. And so I do wonder how much you can read into the approval ratings on his handling of this conflict as about his handling of this conflict or just the fact that he is dealing with low approval ratings at this moment. But to your second point about sort of what's happening in the Democratic Party, most Democratic politicians are still strongly supportive of Israel. Chuck Schumer traveled there with Mitt Romney over the weekend. But more than 50 House Democrats have signed a letter pressing the administration to help limit civilian casualties in Gaza. As you mentioned, Lovett, there's the resolution introduced by five House Democrats today calling for a ceasefire. They will all get a say in the response when Congress eventually votes on aid to Israel. A lot of chatter that Democratic disagreement over the response could

pose a political problem for the party. I tend to think it could, but also having lived through the aftermath of 9-11 and the Iraq war, like, I think it's healthy and important for people in the party to raise concerns about both civilian casualties and the possibility of a larger war that could put more lives at risk, including American lives. Tommy, what do you think? Yeah, I think it's unavoidable. I mean, I think that we're a party that is diverse, by definition, and the range that Lovett talked about reflects the range of opinion among Democratic voters. And I think, like, I personally think that in 2021, the last time there was a brief war in Gaza, pressure from the left calling for a ceasefire, calling for restraint, calling for eliminating civilian casualties was helpful. for a ceasefire, calling for restraint, calling for eliminating civilian casualties was helpful. I think that that outcome will not only save a bunch of civilians in Gaza, but I think it's fundamentally in our interest as Americans to do whatever it takes to prevent

this war from spiraling out of control. If Hezbollah gets involved, if God help us, Iran gets involved directly, there's American hostages, we think, held in Gaza. Every single airstrike puts them at risk. Like four days ago, there'd been 6,000 airstrikes. What's it at now? There's carpet bombing this place, right? And these hostages are spread all over the place. So I also think like, look, Israel went through a horrific, traumatic incident, but I think that is not a reason to outsource all of our thinking and decision-making to Bibi Netanyahu. I do not trust him. I don't trust him to do the right thing. I do not trust him to put Israel's security above his own political interests. Most Israelis agree with

that sentiment. So I understand that people want to destroy Hamas. I don't know that there is a purely military answer to that problem, right? You have to figure out a way to try to find these hostages and rescue them. You have to figure out a way to take out Hamas's leadership. But talking about rolling 100,000 Israeli troops into Gaza to wage a sustained ground war campaign, that is a recipe for tens of thousands of deaths and potential disasters. So those are the things, I'm glad there's disagreement in the party, if it means there's voices on the left saying, hey, don't do that. I also think that, you know, we're going to talk about Republicans in a second, but we know what one party in this country thinks about the

crisis and the rhetoric they're going to use. And obviously, we are now and have been for some time dealing with a rise in anti-Semitism within the United States and all around the world. There is also now rising Islamophobia again in the United States. There was a six-year-old Palestinian American boy from Illinois who was stabbed to death over the weekend by his landlord because of his Muslim faith, who was screaming, you Muslims must die as he stabbed the six-year-old. Obviously, there've been anti-Semitic incidents and attacks for not just since this horrific attack in Israel, but over the last several years. So I think that- Often in Donald Trump's stump speech.

Right. And often in Donald Trump's speech. So I think like having at least one party that is thoughtful and careful about how much we support military efforts, what we do, thinking about civilian casualties, thinking about taking the temperature down is incredibly important going forward because we don't we only have one party that's willing to do that. Yeah. You know, after 9-11 in the United States, there was there was there was this ridiculous idea that like, oh, you know, we're not Democrats, we're not Republicans, we're all Americans. And why did that take off? And why do people think that was true? Because what was happening is for a brief time, the only way it was acceptable to be in public was to be conservative. That we united by kind of like excising a lot of kinds of dissent and deciding

that the only response you could have was conservative. It is good to see that there is inside of Israel, even in this moment, far more disagreement and debate. One of the lessons to me of 9-11 is that was a massive intelligence failure. It was a government failure to prevent those attacks. And in the face of such an overwhelming failure, part of the reason the response had to be so large was to say this was such a massive success, not because we failed to stop it, but because the threat is so great and so vast. We don't know what the world would look like today if this attack hadn't also been made so much worse by the fact that Israel seemed to be caught off guard by it,

right? We don't know what would have happened had there been more security around the Gaza Strip, if there hadn't been a sense in which Netanyahu and the government took their eye off the ball. We don't know. But because we don't know, the attacks caused so much devastation. And so the government is responding in a way that tries to meet the level of failure with a response that seems commensurate with the pain Israel is going through. But none of that will serve Israel's interest in the long term. And I do think that when I see that letter, so that letter from these 50 House Democrats, it's a good letter. It's, I think, pretty like straightforward.

And I think it speaks from a place of not just wanting there to be humanitarian aid and protection for people in Gaza who are not responsible for Hamas's atrocities, but also because it is in Israel's interest to not unleash a decade of instability in the region, to unleash like a level of chaos that they have no idea how they're going to get back from. Like, you know, I know that there was a story that broke today that the Biden administration is urging the Netanyahu government to figure out what its exit strategy will be in Gaza. And it's pretty clear that right now they don't have one. Well, yeah, or any plan. I mean, also, like, listen, they're not going to kill their way out of this problem. There needs to be a political solution, a set of negotiations that lead to a political accommodation that leads to a Palestinian state. Absent that, there are going

to be people like Hamas who get power and do things like what we saw a week ago. So Republicans aren't exactly unified on this issue either. Donald Trump's primary opponents are hitting him over remarks where he praised Hezbollah as very smart, criticized Netanyahu and told Israel to straighten it out and strengthen themselves up. Here's a clip. And it's reckless and irresponsible for President, former President Trump or any American leader to send any message other than full and unconditional support to Israel. It's the wrong place at the wrong time. This isn't about Trump. It's not about him. He's a fool. Only a fool would make those kind of comments.

Now is not the time to be attacking our ally. You're not going to find me throwing verbal grenades at the Israeli leadership. So do you think this could actually make a difference in the primary? My view on this is if Trump decided to say that Netanyahu needs to go and we should stop spending so much money in Israel and Israel should take care of itself, he would lose almost no support from his base because they love him and they love isolationism. But maybe I'm just being too pessimistic. I think betting on the theory that the cult will do what the cult leader says is usually a good one when it comes to the Maga base. I mean, look, for a variety of reasons, like right wing evangelical Christians in the US

are some of the most fervent supporters of Israel in the entire country, far more so than a lot of Jewish Americans. You know, a lot of them literally think Israel's existence is God's will. And so, you know, look, Trump's comments about Hezbollah and attacking Bibi and attacking the defense minister were profoundly weird. I don't think anyone argued that. But he has a long record of supporting Israel that I think these evangelicals will be educated on. That includes moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem. It means recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, which is territory that they took from Syria in 1967. It means the Abraham Accords, which were when the U.S. basically bribed a bunch of countries

to announce normalization deals with Israel. So these were huge political gifts in Netanyahu. They're wildly popular in Israel. And I think this evangelical base will have heard about them. And so I think that maybe you can peel off like some of the more rational, like very pro-Israel Republicans or people who just are like, you know what, I'm out. Like that was too weird. This guy's lost it. But my guess is that this is very similar to the debate over abortion rights, where there's some activists who are like, we're annoyed he won't come out for a 15 week national ban, but he gave us a Supreme Court. You know what I mean? Like we know where he really stands. We know he's been there for us. I think if you would ask me a month ago,

I would say that Donald Trump has like made an argument that appeals to a lot of older Jews who are inclined to see Fox News and say things like, you know, Trump's been supportive of Israel and there's a bunch of anti-Semites in the Democratic Party. So I do think he sort of like, as Tommy's saying, sort of like has those sort of baseline of kind of credibility, for lack of a better word, in the issue. But even if he didn't, what about the last six years tells us that what Republicans are looking for is kind of a stable hand on the tiller? Like we think like Nikki Haley, this is going to be the moment everyone's like, you know, after he was indicted and put a gag order by a judge and did an insurrection and spent the last year cursing out his enemies. I wasn't totally on board with Nikki

Haley. But now that there's a conflict in the Middle East, something that hasn't happened before, I'm ready to switch my vote. But you know what? Like they haven't made the argument that they'd be a stable hand at the tiller and Trump won't be. And I think this like this, the way they've been attacking him on those, as you said, very just weird comments sort of illustrates like the failure of the strategy for these republicans who have decided to criticize trump even mildly which is they criticize him from the right they they make it issue-based right he's not strong enough on israel or he didn't he didn't stand closely enough with the allies same thing on abortion he wasn't right-wing enough right as opposed to saying what people might think after

hearing trump's comments is like what a fucking weirdo you got we want that guy as president and and presiding over the country when we're in this like this chaos right now in the in the in the middle of these conflicts like no one is willing to just go after and be like this guy's fucking loose cannon christy a little bit christy a little bit christy a little bit yeah well he's trump also truth like this never would have happened if not for the 2020 election being stolen right so it's just like the narcissism that's bleeding into every facet of the way he views the world and that's compelling a message that's just a message to bb right just like you know you got behind you got behind biden and now look yeah yeah which is of course absurd petty grievance you're right chris christie had the the right message there it's just chris christie's not uh not really gaining much

traction these days well part of the problem is they don't anyone with that message you know it's just chris christie's not uh not really gaining much traction these days well part of the problem is they don't anyone with that message you know it's like uh uh they shoot the messenger yeah the problem right the public party is currently in a shoot the messenger mode and so they don't like and then you get you know mike pence being like not just unwavering but unconditional it's like no we should not we don't we should not be providing unconditional support to anyone ever that's not how being a country works. This is not a child in a school who deserves unconditional love. This is international diplomacy, unconditional support. No, we don't provide unconditional support to anybody. But that's why, you know, most of the Republican base has like left that kind of Republican.

It's also like they don't, you know, they want, they're more isolationist. They're not, they're not into the Nikki Haley, Mike Pence fucking worldview of foreign policy anymore. It's like, I'm just going to add one more adjective and that's going to help me. I know. Like, all right, Mike Pence. So DeSantis is also saying that the U.S. should refuse all Gazan refugees because all Palestinians are, quote, anti-Semitic. Nikki Haley disagreed, saying that America should be able to separate civilians from terrorists. It looks like Trump is on Team DeSantis here. He said in Iowa today, or he's expected to

say in his Iowa speech on Monday, that he will bar refugees from Gaza or Syria or Somalia or Yemen or Libya, implement strong ideological screening for all immigrants, and revoke student visas for anti-American and anti-Semitic foreigners at U.S. colleges and universities. So basically, if you've got a visa and Trump doesn't like what you say on campus, you get kicked out. I think Marco Rubio came out for that proposal as well. That would not surprise me either. So we're obviously probably on team Haley for this one. But how do you think Trump and DeSantis' stances would play out in the Republican primary? Yeah, I mean, listen, we should just say that it's a despicable bigoted thing to say.

And I think there's a direct line from that rhetoric to this six year old kid who got murdered because he's a Palestinian American Muslim in Chicago. And like, we just can't say that enough. I do think like, I wish those comments, I wish I thought that would hurt DeSantis in Republican primary, but I think the Muslim ban taught us that you can benefit in the Republican

party from this kind of naked anti-Muslim bigotry and that the Republican base is so anti-immigration that they can't even imagine a scenario where you would allow in people whose homes are being bombed. So this has just been the Republican messaging has been a race to the bottom to see who can come out most fervently in support of war crimes. You have Tom Cotton on TV being like, like, let's turn Gaza into rubble. Lindsey Graham is saying this is a religious war, like bomb them into the Stone Age. Right. And that this has real world consequences. But I think they know what their base wants to hear. Yeah. AP poll from March found that only one in 10 Republicans said there should be more immigrants and asylum seekers. Unfortunately, that number

only climbed to two out of 10 when you poll all voters. And of course, that was a poll that had a lot of wording about the southern border. And so it, you know, it wasn't all about refugees from a war zone. But like, the polling on refugees is is sadly, not as as great as you like it to be not only with republicans but with most americans and that is just fucking awful and let's be clear race and religion impacts those numbers because if you ask them about ukrainian refugees they'll probably have a very different response in a lot of cases yep that's right with de santa slipping to third in most polls nikki haley's people see this crisis as a chance to leverage her foreign policy experience and become trump's main opponent.

What do you guys think? Wishful thinking? You know, like, okay, you'll be Trump's main opponent. You'll lose to him the hardest, I suppose. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we talked about this. Like, again, like all these Republicans turning on the news and seeing like what their fucking angle is, is so disgusting and has been for weeks. And like they all seem so false and so fake and so like sort of small that I don't think it matters. If I were her, I would use this as an opportunity to hammer Vivek Ramaswamy, for example. And she'd be like, hey, man, you're 38. You have no idea what you're talking about.

You're just a fast talking, like an annoying dork who just, you know, you're not ready for this job. I think she can try to do this with DeSantis as well and try to go after his foreign policy experience. But he's going to say, I served in the Navy. I deployed to Iraq. I worked at Guantanamo Bay. Like I know firsthand what it's like to fight terrorists. I think he'll have a compelling rejoinder. He'll be like, yeah, you were measuring drapes. You were buying drapes at the un well that was the tim scott response yeah literally about drapes yeah yeah that was a weird take but yeah she's a yeah like i mean listen you know maybe the maybe it can consolidate the sort of number two spot and get some momentum but you know no one's going after trump's 50 in the yeah no like i i think it's really possible that nikki

haley is the last one standing at this point right but as you said love it like her problem since the beginning is that she and her team think that she's running for president with a republican electorate that hasn't existed for 15 years it's just not they don't that like the the Nikki Haley Mitt Romney whatever view of both foreign policy and you know you hear every debate and she's so the first answer she always gives is she's obsessed with the debt and spending and it's like that is just a different Republican party that does not exist anymore and and these are the same Republicans who think like Glenn Youngkin is going to ride to the rescue too right we're going to Glenn Youngkin's going to save the day. This Republican electorate does not want your Glenn Youngkins and your Nikki Haley's. They don't, they want Donald Trump and people who are like Donald Trump. Hey, remind me

when Nikki Haley was having all of this incredible foreign policy experience and garnering all these international successes, I can never remember who was president, who was president also having the identical record of success that she would claim yeah it seems to me that helps her more than anything but i just but like if her argument is that if her argument is that her foreign policy credentials make her suitable to be president well surely it would make donald trump just as suitable because he is the person that put her in place to get those achievements done on on on his behalf yeah but she doesn't say that no because she was in lockstep with him and i still and now kind of kind of tiptoes around her critique.

Yeah. You can't quote Reagan and get your way to the White House anymore. It doesn't work, guys. Third quarter fundraising totals are out. Joe Biden has about $32 million on hand. Trump has $37.5 million. Tim Scott has $13 million.

DeSantis has $12.3 million. Nikki Haley has $11.5 million. And RFK Jr. has $6 million. No one else really worth talking about. Anything stand out to you guys from these fundraising reports? That RFK number is troubling. Yeah, I didn't like it. I saw it.

Yeah, yeah. That is not great. $6 million. I mean, it's not a... Yeah, it's too much. Also, if there's a super PAC behind them, that's not... Yeah, I mean, listen. That worries me even more.

Everyone not named Trump and Biden or Biden is struggling to raise money. DeSantis has a ton of cash in his super PAC. So that's in the background. Pence is dead. He's got $1.2 million on hand. Yeah. That's why I didn't mention him. The most amazing thing I saw today was Tim Scott's super PAC is canceling close to $40 million in TV ad reservations. It can't be good when your own super PAC gives up on you. That's got to be tough. And Tim Scott's cash on hand looks pretty good there, but he started with 21 million that he transferred over from his Senate account. So he's just burning cash. Not only did the super PAC just cancel them, like they didn't do it quietly. They have, there's a spokesman saying like, we don't want to waste money on his candidacy anymore. Some big donor was like, Hey,

Larry Ellison's like, I'm done spending money on Tim Scott. That ship has sailed. Find me another virgin to waste this money on. Bring me a virgin. Some other interesting stuff that I'm stealing

directly from Politico. Biden was ramping up his spending. He went from four to 38 staffers. Trump is raising a lot, but he's burning a lot of money

on fundraising. So I guess nearly 40% of his joint fundraising committee's money goes towards his own expenditures. So that's not a great burn rate. And then apparently DeSantis has quit private jets. So good for him for shaking his addiction. That's it. Now he's on the road to the White House. I hope someone makes him take his shoes off at the airport. Let's get to the bottom of that. What's going on inside of those boots? That's a good point.

What is happening inside of the DeSantis boots? What is that? Because it's not just a heel. It's a contraption in there. That's a lot of height. Like spring load. It's a lot of height. You're going to fuel the fire of the people who are going to dress up as DeSantis in the boots for Halloween.

Look, listen. If you're out there and your plan was to be sexy Ron DeSantis, who be it me to tell you that that's a bad idea? A couple of... Just going to be running around Adams Morgan, all these people in the DeSantis boots. A couple of just thigh-high white pumps with that little DeSantis hat. And that voice. And that voice. And the vest.

Yeah, no. Booting on. That works, baby. Okay, okay. We'll workshop it. We'll leave this topic. Booting on. We should also mention

that Judge Chicken has now issued a partial gag order on Trump that prevents him from attacking witnesses, prosecutors, and court staff.

But these balls don't work. I'm sorry. These gags don't work if it's not tightened in the back. God. I fucked up the joke. The gag order includes speeches, statements, truths, re-truths.

The judge also said she'll consider sanctions if Trump violates the order, but hasn't yet specified what those would be. She also reiterated that the trial will begin on March 4th and made it clear that she will not be changing the date, rejecting any appeals from Trump's lawyers to change the date. Trump clearly took this message to heart. Here he is in Iowa Monday after the ruling. But no, they put a gag order on me,

and I'm not supposed to be talking about things that bad people do. And so we'll be appealing very quickly. Judge gave a gag order. Judge doesn't like me too much. Her whole life is not liking me. Lesson learned. Yeah. Lesson learned, guys.

I'm telling you, you got to tighten that thing in the back. You can't have a partial gag order on this fucking guy. You can't partially damn a river. Have the chances that he gets locked up before the trial increased at all? She said that apparently she's going to have a written ruling that comes out that maybe details

exactly what the sanctions could be she just left it at sanctions during the during the trial but like i don't know look my position on this remains unchanged uh trump is going to do everything in his power to dare this judge to put him behind bars in contempt. Like there's just every, he said in that same event too, I think he later said something like, if I have to go to jail to save American democracy, I'll go to jail.

I don't know how that works, but yeah. And like, these are like, basically we have these sort of like two, you know, two very, very like,

but neither scenario seems particularly possible. One being that a judge literally just like throws an American president in jail for not shutting the fuck up for a while just to kind of teach him a lesson. That seems hard to imagine. But also, it's hard to imagine how you can conduct a trial when this guy isn't going to respect, you know, any rules placed on him because he believes no one is actually going to throw with putting him in a cell, though. It sounds like maybe he's kind of now wrapped his head around, like, maybe this will be kind of cool. I'll be like Judith Miller, I guess. Remember Judith Miller? Yeah, he wrote, yeah, no, I know. Remember? I do remember Judith Miller. The Aspens turned together, remember?

Yes. Remember that letter? Maybe the... That's for the true fans. The J6 Choir could release another track if he goes to jail. Maybe they could record one in jail. Yeah, with them.

Maybe they'd all be there together. Nelson Morondella. uh jesus christ is that something yeah it's it's definitely something yeah it's definitely something i don't know i think she could levy other kinds of sanctions on him maybe she could take away the keys to his social account maybe she could just find him finding him every day is pretty good yeah they gotta happen could happen too. Got a lot of arrows in that quiver. Bad. I think the biggest news out of that whole thing is that she's not moving March 4th. Because a lot of people, we've now become accustomed to like, oh, that's the day, but it could get pushed. Right.

She seems, she is, I mean, you could see it slipping like a week or two for whatever reason, but she is keeping it in March. Yeah. She's doing it. We're going to have a trial in March. As soon as she locks up this primary. And she really wants him to lose. Jesus, fuck it. What? She's a good person.

She's a good judge. She's a good judge who cares about this country and its future. It was a partial gag order, all right? She said he could continue to criticize the Biden administration. It's unassailable. He could continue to criticize Washington, D.C., which he's been doing. Yeah. Just can't make the threats to witnesses or the court staff.

She's trying to really fuck him. She can't go too far. She has to seem impartial. You're unbelievable. So, believe it or not, the Republican Party's congressional wing is still somehow an even bigger shitshow right now. The House will allegedly hold a floor vote for Speaker at noon on Tuesday. Jim Jordan wants to use the public vote to pressure the dozens of Republicans who are opposed to his bid,

though he's starting to get support from a few key holdouts. The rest say they're going to nominate someone else to run against him for this vote. Meanwhile, Hakeem Jeffries said over the weekend that there have been informal talks with some Republicans about what it would take for Democrats to support one of their speaker candidates, including the possibility that they give more power to acting Speaker Patrick McHenry. So, guys, Speaker Jordan seems like it could be a real possibility here. What are we doing about this? Anything anything Democrats can do to stop this from happening?

What are some of the dangers of a of a Jordan run house that are different than a McCarthy run house? He's a scary guy. I mean, when I interviewed Adam Kinzinger the other when was that six months ago last week? I don't remember the former Republican member of Congress from Illinois. He talked about, you know, Jordan is a right wing Christian nationalist. He is an ideologue. He does not care about compromise or governing or the debt ceiling. He thinks that liberals are evil, full stop. And so like, how do you work with a guy like that? How do you negotiate in a divided Congress? How do you get something like Ukraine funding to pass when, you know, he knows his caucus is dead city. Like he's someone who will,

pass when you know he knows his caucus is dead city like he's someone who will he's just he's the worst case in some ways yeah i look at mccarthy voted with the insurrectionists uh because he had no principles what's frightening is jim jordan voted with the insurrectionists because he seems on some level to really believe it yeah uh that is chilling i also look look we look instrumental in the plot to overturn the election wasn't just going along with it, was on calls with the White House, asked for pardon because he thought maybe he committed some election of believing in the conspiracy theories and also believing Democrats are so dangerous. So so so bad for the country that there's there's no price worth paying. There's no there's no rule worth protecting if it means you can keep a Republican in office. Like we've just been through a few different cycles, right? Like we went through a debt ceiling.

We went through a government shutdown and a threat. And in both those cases, Kevin McCarthy, because he's not a person who had very much principle, ultimately was able to bring a vote to the floor that so a bipartisan group in the House could send something to the Senate so that we didn't hit, we didn't default on our debt and so the government didn't close. What happens the next time? It didn't default on our debt. And so the government didn't close. What happens the next time? Jim Jordan is not that person. So what does a deal look like? And does it mean that the only hope for having that kind of a bipartisan vote in the House will require some kind of discharge position or some kind of going around the speaker in a way that didn't have to happen under Kevin McCarthy because he ultimately caped into

the deal? I don't know. Wants a full abortion ban. Wants to ban gay marriage legislative terrorist who can't be trusted to defend the constitution now that wasn't us that's uh speaker john boehner squishy lib john boehner called him a legislative terrorist liz cheney said he couldn't be trusted to defend the constitution cassidy hudgenson said the same thing to me she was a close trump aide and worked with Jim Jordan a lot.

So Republicans think these things about Jim Jordan. Conservative Republicans, not moderate Republicans. And to your point, Lovett, that he thinks it's more important to hold the office than to ever work with Democrats, that's going to also be the position if Republican so-called moderates don't stand up to stop him from becoming speaker, that is the position of every House Republican, that they thought it would be better to have Jim Jordan as speaker, the legislative terrorist, Jim Jordan. He's a better speaker than doing some kind of a deal with Democrats where you'd still have a Republican speaker, but you just maybe guarantee some votes on government funding, Ukraine, Israel, stuff like that. Yeah. So as of this recording over the course of just the last 24 hours, we've gone from this huge block of not moderates, but people who aren't as right wing as sort of the loud zealots going from saying they wouldn't support Jim Jordan to one by one getting off

the phone with him and having these conversations and realizing that they've come to discover that they can support him. Now, what we don't know is there are still dozens of people who haven't said one way or the other. And we don't know if just because these sort of big name people who I think do actually, whose decision to come out publicly saying they're for Jim Jordan tells you that opposition is really weakening. We don't know what these other people think because it is again the same situation you can only lose four and we don't know yet sean hannity's producer emailing moderates being like uh are you going to vote for jim jordan or uh if you say no i guess you support hamas like that is like literally the tenor of his you know he's got like the right-wing media infrastructure threatening moderates on his

behalf to try to get him you know what's funny about that time is like i saw that story over the weekend, and then there was a bunch of Republicans, mostly on background, if not all on background, being like, that's the kind of shit that will backfire for Jim Jordan, is having Hannity do that. I'm like, will it? Will it backfire? Because it seems like since that letter, there's a bunch of so-called never Jordan Republicans who've now said that they support him, like Representative Ann Wagner, who after she's like a top Scalise deputy. And she was like, I was so offended by Jim Jordan saying in the in the caucus meeting, America wants me. And we're going to and she's

like, I will. I'm a hell no on Jim Jordan, never Jim Jordan. And now today, she's like, OK, I'm back in Jordan. So like, count me as skeptical that the last remaining holdouts are going to stand their ground. I could see it on the first ballot. Right. There's gonna be one ballot. You could see five or six Republicans saying I'm standing against Jim Jordan. And then after they get a couple rounds, you can see them being like, well, I don't like Jim Jordan. But what am I going to do? Keep the government closed and keep the House closed. And we're not going to stand with you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah i could see that yeah or yeah let's say like look no um uh you know not never a safe place to be to be you know hoping that uh squishy on background

republican types are gonna uh defend the republic hasn't hasn't worked for us yet i i do also wonder like what are what are these conversations like what are the promises that jim jordan is making in these conversations with people like mike rogers others. Apparently he's promised that Ukraine funding will come to a vote, and then some kind of government funding bill will be. That's sort of the reporting. We don't know. That's the reporting, and who knows?

He strikes me as the kind of guy, Jim Jordan, who thinks a whip operation includes physically beating members of Congress. He's a scary wrestling coach who allegedly didn't take action to support some of his players who were sexually molested by a doctor at Ohio State University. He's like a terrible person in every respect. Yeah, that's the other thing, too. Like sort of the collective decision by like basically there's been a ton of reporting that people went like unequivocally went people claiming they went to jim jordan and said this

is going on uh and that he knew about it and then when jim jordan was asked about it it seems like he just lied like they're tested they testified about it and congressman nancy mace like pretend it didn't happen when she was asked about it on tv she's like oh i'm not familiar with that like yeah there's no just pretend they're just they've chosen that it doesn't matter but of course if he does become speaker there will be a like a that that will bring that story to the fore. And there will be a big round of coverage about it. They will, of course, decide not to care. But it is despicable. leeway from the matt gates's and the freedom caucus people on issues because all these people care about identity over issues these republicans right they just care about the fucking media circus and and we have now a maga speaker and blah blah blah so like maybe they give him a little more leeway in the time being but someday down the road years from now and we're still doing

this podcast we'll be like jim jordan republican establishment cuck got booted today because he wasn't he wasn't maga enough for uh yeah there's a fucking racist actual hyena uh mounted a successful challenge the racist sentient hyena did bite the leg of of his chief whip and centrist heroine marjorie jayla green all right we're gonna figure out if uh we're gonna see if democrats have a plan to do something about this you've already talked to him today right uh well we we're going to figure out if we're going to see if Democrats have a plan to do something about this. You've already talked to him today. Right. Well, we'll see. I'm not going to I'm not going to give it away. People got to listen to the interview.

John, can we make a deal with these fucking people? Hakeem Jeffries, when we come back. The House hasn't had a speaker in two weeks, but is about to hold a vote on whether to hand over the gavel to Jim Jordan. Joining us to talk about how the Democrats plan to deal with this nonsense, House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries. Leader Jeffries, welcome back to the pod. Great to be back with you. So we are recording this late Monday. back to the pod. Great to be back with you. So we are recording this late Monday. I know you've been having some informal conversations with House Republicans who don't want Jim Jordan to become speaker. Have you gotten any indication from those conversations that at least five or so of those

Republicans will stand firm in their opposition to Jordan when it comes time to vote? That really is the question of the hour, because it is clear that more than 50 Republicans, as of the end of last week, had no interest in elevating an extremist election denier like Jim Jordan to over the next day or so, if a vote is brought before the floor of the House of Representatives, is that a handful of those individuals are going to have to demonstrate public courage, similar to what Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger did in the last Congress. And quite honestly, that remains to be seen, whether there's a willingness to face down publicly the extreme right-wing elements of the House Republican conference in order to forge a bipartisan path forward. If enough House Republicans do show that kind of courage and come to you guys and say that they're willing to play ball and entertain a bipartisan path forward, what type of power sharing deal would you be willing to consider?

Our view is that any arrangement should be anchored in the fundamental principle that when there are bills that have substantial Democratic support and substantial Republican support, they should be brought to the floor for an up or down vote, as opposed to the current structure of the House, where a handful of extremist members who are either part of the Rules Committee or make decisions to vote down rules on the House floor have the ability to dictate the agenda for the American people. That will require a change in the rule structure that presently exists, but it's designed to facilitate bipartisanship. For instance, if there are bipartisan bills that emerge from the United States Senate

that have support from Democrats and Republicans, then those bills should automatically receive up or down votes. We believe in an enlightening or enlightened governmental structure, the type of which we are contemplating in terms of this bipartisan path forward. And that's something that could be written into the rules so that you wouldn't have to just take their word for it? That is correct, because there absolutely are accountability concerns. One of the challenges with the prior speaker is that there were major trust issues within

the House Democratic Caucus based on a variety of things, including the launching of an illegitimate impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden. There's absolutely no evidence that President Biden engaged in wrongdoing. And that was just part of a continuing show of bending the knee to Trumpism and hard right extremism, as well as the fact that President Biden negotiated an agreement to avoid a catastrophic default on America's debt for the first time in our history that would have crashed the economy and triggered a job-killing recession. The majority of Republicans in the House agreed to that legislative resolution and then less than a week later broke their own agreement under the prior speaker. And so consistent with your question, there needs to be an ability to change the rules so that there's some accountability for any agreements that are reached.

So when Jordan was running for speaker and talking to the House Republican caucus, he reportedly promised to stop U.S. support for Ukraine and shut down the government unless Democrats agree to massive budget cuts, new border restrictions. If he becomes speaker, do you see any room for compromise on those demands? Or do you think we'd just be headed for a government shutdown? Well, shutdowns are in the DNA of House Republicans, and that's been the case going all the way back to the Gingrich years. The Republicans shut the government twice when Bill Clinton was president. At that point in time, they were trying to eradicate Medicare and Medicaid as we know it.

House Republicans shut the government down when John Boehner was speaker, even though he was reluctant to do it. But the Tea Party effort forced the government shut down for 14 days as part of an effort to convince President Obama to repeal the Affordable Care Act, his signature legislative accomplishment, and throw millions of Americans off the health care rolls. In 2018 and 2019, the longest government shutdown in American history under then-President Donald Trump and Republicans initiated it when they controlled the House and the Senate. That was because they wanted to try to extract billions of taxpayer dollars for an ineffective medieval border wall. In all of those instances, House Democrats, Senate Democrats, and Democratic presidents held the line. We've never paid these extreme ransom notes

in the context of a government shutdown, and I believe we never will. You mentioned Liz Cheney. She recently said that if Jordan becomes speaker, there's no way to argue that Republicans can be counted on to defend the Constitution. How concerned are you about a Speaker Jordan messing with the certification of the 2024 election? There are a whole host of challenges with respect to the prospect of a Speaker Jim Jordan. Jim Jordan is an election denier. Jim Jordan voted to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election. Jim Jordan has continued to perpetrate the big lie that the

election was stolen and that Donald Trump should be the president of the United States of America. Jim Jordan also wants to unleash weapons of war in our communities that aren't used to hunt deer, they're used to hunt human beings. Jim Jordan doesn't believe in a woman's freedom to make her own reproductive health care decisions. Instead, he wants to criminalize abortion care and impose a nationwide ban. Jim Jordan is the poster child for MAGA Republican extremism. Paging all traditional Republicans and so-called moderates. It's time to get off the sidelines and get in the game before it's too late, because your party is on a path to burn down the House of Representatives. And we consistently have said we are willing to find a bipartisan path forward and enter into a unity governing coalition.

We just need them to reject the extremism and join us in finding a reasonable accommodation so that the House can reopen and do the business of the American people. One Democratic operative told Axios that a Speaker Jordan could lead Democrats to pick up 30 House seats in 2024. I am not dumb enough to ask you if you agree with that prediction. But do you think that Speaker Jordan should become an issue in some of these competitive frontline races, especially for the Republicans who are running in districts that Joe Biden won? It seems to me that Republicans will no longer be able to claim that there is any semblance of moderation left in the House Republican conference if they elevate Jim Jordan. Remember, they took down Steve Scalise in order to clear the path for Jim Jordan, even though Steve Scalise received a majority of the votes in their internal election. Because at the end of the day, there are many within the House Republican Conference who want to basically show the American people who they actually are. And that's acolytes of extreme right-wing ideological Trumpism, which is bad for the American people.

One last question before I let you go. Five House Democrats in your caucus just introduced a resolution calling for an immediate de-escalation and ceasefire in Israel and Palestine. More than 2,800 people in Gaza have already been killed, with nearly 10,000 wounded. Why shouldn't Israel agree to a ceasefire, at least until civilians in Gaza, including some Americans and Israeli hostages, are either safe or evacuated before Israel continues its operation to take out Hamas? Well, Israel was struck in the most horrific way possible, more than a thousand people victimized by brutal terrorist acts of Hamas, which was targeted at civilians in the southern part of the country. And Israel has an understandable right and indeed a responsibility to defend itself and to eliminate Hamas. and to eliminate Hamas. The elimination of Hamas is important for the state of Israel,

but it also is important for the United States and our own national security interests in the region. It's important for the free world, and it's important for the Palestinian people who have been subjected to Hamas's rule, which is not focused on the best interests of Palestinian civilians. And that has not been the case for the last 16 years or so since they came to power around 2006. It's all been about Hamas's twisted ideology of wiping Israel off the face of the earth. Now, as President Biden has said, it's going to be important for Israel to follow the international rules of war and conflict. And I know the administration is working with some of the other Arab players in the region, particularly Egypt and Jordan, to try to create some humanitarian space, perhaps before there was a ground invasion that is intensified. But those are discussions that President Biden, as I understand it, will continue to lead to try to figure out the path forward. But there is no doubt that Hamas has to be eliminated. If there was

doubt about that in advance of October 7th, there should be no doubt about it right now. No doubt at all that Hamas should be eliminated and that Israel has every right to defend itself and do that. Obviously, an aid package will come before the House at some point. Do you have concern that the aid will not just be that it's obviously important to, you know, support Israel with aid? Are you also going to be looking for aid to support refugees, people in Gaza who are civilians who have now been displaced from their homes? There's half a million people that have left the north to go to the south. They're having trouble crossing into Egypt. I know that the administration is currently working on getting safe passages and food and other support for these

refugees. But is that something that you're concerned about as you think about funding packages going forward? There are only two ways in or two ways out of the Gaza Strip. One is into and out of Israel. And that border, which was breached in a horrific way, is obviously closed. And then there's the Rafah crossing between the Gaza Strip and Egypt. how to get the Rafah Crossing open and or humanitarian assistance delivered through the Rafah Crossing so that Palestinian civilians can receive the humanitarian assistance necessary, even under the tough conditions of a very necessary war in terms of the elimination of Hamas. Now, the administration is likely to present a national security package that perhaps is also inclusive of humanitarian relief requests. I don't want to get out ahead of the administration in terms of what the four corners of that

relief package might look like, along with the security assistance necessary for Israel and Ukraine, replenishing America's military reserves as well, I think will be necessary. What we've seen is that this is a very dangerous world in the Middle East, in Europe, all across the globe. And we have to make sure that we are in the strongest possible position to defend our home line as well. Leader Jeffries, thank you for your time. And thanks for coming back to Pod Save America. We'll talk to you again soon. Always great to be on. Thank you so much.

Okay, before we go, we have Crooked's own Shaniqua McClendon joining us for a quick rundown of what we should be watching for in the 2023 elections that are just four weeks from now. Hey, Shanigua. Hey, how are y'all? Good. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having me. Let's start by briefly talking about the bad news. Democrats in Louisiana had a rough primary election over the weekend. Republican Attorney General Jeff Landry will replace Democrat John Bel Edwards as the state's next governor because he won 52 percent of the vote in a 16 person field, which means he avoids a runoff with Democrat Sean Wilson. Shaniqua, what happened? And more importantly, are there any lessons Democrats can learn from this loss? Things did not go well. I think the biggest lesson is that you have to do things.

There was really little investment, little attention paid to this race. And I think it showed up. It was the turnout was 35.8%, which was about 10% less than turnout in 2019, I think. So, you know, that can really make the difference in an election. And, you know, there were 16 candidates, but there were three that were kind of serious candidates. And it is pretty bad that two Republicans were running in those top three spots. And one was still able to come out with over 50% of the vote. This election was also on a Saturday. And apparently there was a big LSU football. It's October, so football game. So having on saturdays is probably not a bad idea

but probably should not do it when there's a huge football game going on in a state where football is really important so it was football's fault yet again something else football makes worse in this fucking world of ours well they crushed auburn so okay i mean we we often say that it's like everything matters turnout and persuasion but when your turnout is 36 percent for a gubernatorial race like i don't care how many people you're persuading yeah that's that's garbage i hate to throw anyone under the bus so i won't say anything specifically but there is a post on instagram talking about how bad the turnout was and there are a lot of people in the comments basically saying they never got a phone call, a text, a piece of mail or anything from the

candidate that they were supposed to vote for. Yeah. Campaigns actually matter. All right. So let's talk about the big state legislative elections in Virginia. What's at stake there? Pretty much everything. As we know, in 2021, Glenn Youngkin beat Terry McAuliffe. And so they have a Republican governor. And when he ran, he kind of positioned himself as a moderate Republican who wouldn't do too many crazy things. But he's already indicated that he probably will support some form of an abortion ban in the state if he's able to capture the other chamber he doesn't have. So right now, Democrats have control of the state Senate, and they do not have control of the state house. And so they need to keep the state Senate and take over the state house to ensure that Glenn Youngkin cannot get a bill out of the legislature that he would then sign to ban abortion. And something that we've just been really emphasizing for our volunteers as they talk to voters is that if Republicans are able to have a trifecta in Virginia, that is going to send a signal nationally that Republicans should start leaning in on taking away abortion rights,

because it's worked in this really purple state. So early voting has already started there. And there's a lot at stake. So if you have not voted, you should go vote. And if you have voted already, definitely get involved. How close are the Republicans from getting the trifecta? So obviously they have the House, but how many seats do they need to flip in the Senate? So right now, Democrats have a 22-person majority, but Republicans have 17 caucusing Republicans, and then they have one non-caucasing Republican. So essentially four seats they need to flip to take control of the Senate, and then they would have a trifecta and be able to pretty much do whatever they want.

That is not many. So that is really important for people to get involved in Virginia. And people can get involved in Virginia, not just if you live in Virginia, but you can support from outside the state as well, right? Yes. Virginia has barely any rules around money. So if you want to donate, you can kind of pick where you want to donate. We have a fund for candidates on the Vote Save America site. But also if you want to volunteer, you can make phone calls and text messages into the state. Or if you live in D.C. or Maryland, you can drive down there and go knock on some doors. Excellent. And there's also a pretty big ballot initiative in Ohio that would help protect abortion access. How are people on the ground feeling about that one? Generally, they feel good about the way people feel about protecting abortion. But there

are some concerns around the language for the ballot. In August, there was a special election ballot measure that was trying to change the threshold to pass this ballot measure. And on that one, people who supported having access to abortion needed to vote no. And this time they need to vote yes, because the ballot measure will actually add a clause into the Constitution to protect abortion. But there's concerns that people voted no last time, and they think that that is what they're supposed to do this time. So the big obstacle is making sure people vote the right way, but people feel pretty good about Ohioans wanting to protect abortion. And if people want to help out in Ohio, Vote Save America?

Yes, if you go to votesaveamerica.com slash nooffyears, you can find ways to get involved in Ohio and Virginia. Excellent. All right, everyone. No excuse for getting surprised like we did in Louisiana. In Ohio and Virginia, everyone's got to work hard these last couple weeks.

Yeah. I was trying to think of an etouffee thing, but I have nothing. Also, the- Etouffete? That works. That works. I don't know what that means. You got one?

You got it? Like etoufferte. No, I know. I know. Yeah, no, I got it. Etoufferte? Etoufferte? Etoufferte?

Also, we had a really great, one of the leaders of the effort to organize in Ohio on the show a while back, Desiree Timms. Yes. And they're working really hard. They have a grassroots army trying to beat millions and millions of dollars of out-of-state Republican billionaire money. So help them out.

Yeah. Yeah. Shaniqua, thanks for stopping by. Thanks for having me. Anything else we should know about the 2023 elections except for just go to Vote Save America? They are happening. That is what people need to know, for just go to Vote Save America? They are happening. That is what people

need to know. That's what I like to hear. All right, they're happening. Four weeks from today. All right, Shaniqua, thank you so much for joining. Thanks also to

leader Hakeem Jeffries for joining. Oh, and by the way, the Thursday episode will not come out on Thursday because we will be live in D.C. Thursday night

and so you'll be able to hear that episode first thing Friday morning. We will talk to you then. Bye everyone. Reid Cherland is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt DeGroat is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Mia Kelman, David Tolles,

Kirill Pelleviv, and Molly Lobel. Subscribe to Pod Save America on YouTube to catch full episodes and extra video content. Find us at youtube.com slash at Pod Save America. Finally, you can join our Friends of the Pod subscription community for ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and a great discussion on Discord. Plus, it's a great way to get involved with Vote Save America. Sign up at crooked.com slash friends.