Pod Save America - “Sta-cey! Sta-cey! Sta-cey!” (LIVE from Atlanta)

Episode Date: June 22, 2018

Trump partially reverses his family separation policy with an executive order that leads to more chaos and confusion, and Republicans take another run at repealing Obamacare and gutting Medicare. Then Democratic candidate for governor Stacey Abrams talks to Tommy and Dan about her historic candidacy and how she plans to turn Georgia blue.

What's up Atlanta? What's up Atlanta? Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On the show tonight, we will be talking to the next governor of the state of Georgia, Stacey Abrams. Yes. Good. Very exciting. We're very happy to have Dan back with us.

New author, new father. Can I do the announcement? You can. So as you all know, we did a challenge to see if we could sell 10,000 books with proceeds going to Swing Left. No way you did that. Well, not with that attitude. The same one my publisher had who thought there was no way we could do it. So we got the numbers last night. And we not only sold 10,000 books, we sold 18,000 books.

Oh. thousand bucks we sold eighteen thousand bucks so thank you to our amazing community our friends of the pod who bought the book and did it in a way to help swing left and wrote a big check to swing left right yeah that's awesome for start with the news uh it has been absolutely awful this week uh even in trump-adjusted terms. So for about a week, the president, his Homeland Security secretary, his press secretaries, all told us that Trump's family separation policy was not a policy, that it was the Democrats' fault, and that only Congress could change it with a new law. Yesterday, Trump signed an executive order that he claims will keep parents and children detained together while they go through deportation proceedings,

and today he said that he was directing government agencies to reunite the families who've been separated. So this led to mass chaos and confusion, including within the Trump administration itself. Customs and Border Patrol is now saying that they are suspending the prosecution of parents, and they dropped charges against 17 parents today. So that is good news. So the Washington Post reports that, and then someone from the Department of Justice calls and says, no, no, no, the Department of Justice still has a zero tolerance policy. So Dan, what the hell is going on here? Well, John, I don't have a clue. And the thing is, neither do they. And this is an incredibly complicated policy problem, even if you have the best, smartest, most experienced,

compassionate people doing it. We do not have that in this situation. And they've compounded this problem. And what is, I think, important about this are two things. One, it was a victory that we got Trump to sign this executive order. But this is far from over. All the activism, all the protests, all the calls to Congress can't end until these children, every one of them is reunited with their families. But second, we've been sort of, this is the moment we've been fearing from the beginning, which is you put a dangerously unfit, inexperienced, narcissist ignoramus in the White House, and then he staffs himself with the dregs of the Fox Green Room, you end up with people who are incapable of handling these things. And so

the crises we've had with Trump before have been ones of messaging or politics, where he sent intemperate tweets or did something stupid. Here is one where his actual failure to understand and hatred of actual government is hurting families. And now that we want to try to fix it, it's going to be very hard to do because we don't have the right people in place to do it. Yeah. Tommy, are we just moving from a system of family separation to a system of family detention here? And is there any good reason for that? It sounds like that's exactly what's happening. Is that there is a there was a court case from 1997 that led to an agreement that essentially says you can't detain kids for more than a few days.

And they have to be in the least restrictive surroundings possible. And so they put forward this executive order that is likely to bump up against that ruling and maybe get struck down or maybe the judge will give them more time to detain. They'll make some tweaks around the margin, but what's likely is it will go back to exactly the status quo that happened beforehand. And so Dan is exactly right. I mean, this is an incredibly difficult problem. Barack Obama in 2014, there was an enormous surge of unaccompanied kids to the border to try to get in. And it led to some pretty tough circumstances of holding kids in similar unjustifiable circumstances. And so, you know, what's hard about this is, one, you know, you do

have a group of people in the White House and in the DHS that are incompetent, but they're also doing what they're doing because they think that if they're as callous as humanly possible, it will deter future families and kids from coming up and trying to seek asylum in the United States or illegally immigrate to the United States. And then we have a media that talks about this problem in only political terms. Like there's never any discussion of whether forcibly pulling a kid away from his or her parent is actually deterrent. There's never a conversation about whether a $25 billion wall will actually make a difference in terms of keeping illegal immigration out of the country

or undocumented people from coming north. So it's a problem that is completely bound up in the stupidity of Washington politics and in the most heartless, callous way possible. Dan, you were in the White House in 2014 when the Obama administration dealt with this problem. What can we learn from that experience about, like, let's pretend we had compassionate people in charge of what is still a very difficult problem of an influx of asylum seekers coming to the United States like what talk about that I think that this was one of the most challenging issues that I ever worked on in the White House and because there are no good answers right there are you are trying,

and this is true of all immigration news, but particularly when you're dealing with people who are seeking asylum, which really goes to the core of how America has thought itself to be, a place where you can come for protection, for a better life, if you were under oppression at home, if you have fear of death. And so you put aside what Jeff Sessions has done to try to change what that means and really undermine what sort of America's identity has been, but these are like these very tough issues of trying to find this balance between the law, our our values and what is the moral humane thing to do because we cannot we want to be a place or I think and I think everyone here thinks we should be a place where people who are legitimately

seeking asylum should come and be able to have a hearing to determine if you deserve that and but you also you do get people who come and try to use that who don't have legitimate claims for it and we tried to find a way when what we were really worried about in 2014 which is different than this is you had these kids who were being sent incredibly young by themselves via a essentially a smuggling caravan from not from Mexico but from Central America all the way through Mexico to the southwestern border of the United States. And we were very worried about the safety of these kids. And these are like 15, 16-year-olds.

Sometimes much younger, like incredibly young kids. And you should know, just by using the term smuggler's caravan, that these were not necessarily good people who were faring them. They were really trying to bilk the parents of money, in some cases threatening their lives and saying, you're in danger here. Send your kid and we're going to charge you. We're basically going to charge you more money than you have. And then we're going to have you under our thumb going forward. And so we were trying to find a way to protect the kids and make the parents

understand that they were being taken advantage of here. And they were putting their kids at great risk because, I mean, there's some truly horrible things that happened to some of these kids on the way up and it was very challenging and what we wanted to do was do the best job we could for these kids and i will not say that we did the best job always i mean this is very challenging but also send a message to them that this is not the best path for the for their children in their future and so very challenging very different than this situation, because Trump is trying to use this to make a point. And that is different than trying to do what we, at least we were trying to do,

we thought what was in the best interest of the people at stake. Love it. Why do you think that Trump at least partially reversed himself on this one? Because, I mean, looking back at all the things he's done since he took office there was sort of a partial reversal on the muslim ban only in the sense that remember green heart green card holders were sort of caught up in this and then they went back on that obviously they lost the affordable care act repeal fight this is one of the rare moments where he sort of stepped back and even though the policy is still a mess and we still have to fight for better more humane policy at least partially he's gone back on this

yeah it's very similar to the the i think it's most similar to the muslim ban that they first tried yeah because it is a policy he believes in that he executed poorly, and because they executed it poorly in the pursuit of a goal they really wanted, the images and chaos overwhelmed what they thought was a place where they had a winning argument to be made. And I think that that's in part what happened here. You know, you've seen these stories, and Dan alluded to it, about children being mistreated, not just now, but in 2015 and 2016. And I think it combines two parts of this story in a way that is not elucidating. So there is one challenge for our government, and that is, how do we protect children when they're in our care? And that is something we fail at over and

over again, up and down every layer of government. And it's something that we should all recognize as a failure of mercy that happens constantly all across America, local government, state government, federal government, all the time. What's happening here, though, is someone deliberately trying to put pain on children for the purposes of political gain. And, you know, everyone's noted, and Dan wrote a great piece about this today, that, like, there's both the malevolence and the incompetence. But I think sometimes it's underappreciated just how much incompetence is a sign of the motivations and values of the people you're dealing with because some of the worst things that have ever happened to human beings are the effect of a bureaucracy that cares more about a vicious policy than it does about the people it's supposed to take care of and that what happens is the system gets overwhelmed and instead of saying

we care more about these people than we care about this policy we're executing, this arbitrary fight we've declared, we're going to push it through anyway. We're going to find more warehouses. We're going to put up tents. We're going to put those kids in those tents. And so when Trump reverses it, I think it is because the images were so terrible

and the backlash was so strong. But we shouldn't just think that this is because they didn't do a good job at what they were trying to do. Like this was the goal. And I think that one sign of Trump's racism is the fact that he didn't understand how angry people would be. Can I say something about this here? I know why I will think,

I believe I know why Trump reversed himself, but I also know what were not the reasons. He did not reverse himself because Ivanka made a compelling case to him. If I read that again. Yes, he did not reverse himself because he was heartbroken by the pictures. Because there was no example of Trump ever showing empathy for anyone other than Donald Trump. And the reason he did it is the same reason he did the Muslim ban. He turned on Fox News and he saw these images. And

the only thing that influences him are, if he doesn't like what he sees on TV, that will cause him to change course. And also just let's see, let's be clear about where we are. You know, a lot of this is hard to understand and even the Trump administration doesn't understand it. But one thing is clear, similar to what happened with that Muslim ban, they did a policy chaotically and poorly that is incredibly detrimental based on a manufactured crisis. Then the images made them reverse course, but not all the way.

So we will be at a situation where the policy now being pursued by the Trump administration is much worse than what we had before, but better than what he did for a week because what he did was the most evil thing this president has done so far in his administration. So that's also you don't think you don't think he reversed himself because Michael Cohen quit the RNC.

Yeah. Michael Cohen claiming that he left the RNC because of family separation. Like, who is that an argument for? Who believed that? Find the person in America that was like, huh, you know what? I was wrong about that, Michael Cohen. There's a good person in there. He felt that deeply. Can I just make a point on Ivanka quick?

Just one quick point on Ivanka Trump. I was thinking about Ivanka because I think it's interesting that Ivanka thinks she can get away with tweeting like, I talked to my dad about this and thank you, father, for stopping the thing you did on purpose. But I think Ivanka thinks she can get away with tweeting like, I talked to my dad about this and thank you, father, for stopping the thing you did on purpose. But I think Ivanka thinks she can get away with this is because before Trump was president, Ivanka was useless and tolerable to people in her social circle. Now she's a little

useful to them because her father's president, but she's toxic. And I think being useless and tolerable and useful and toxic are equal. but she's not really ready for what happens when she's useless and toxic and that is what's coming for her important distinction um so putting aside the larger debate about immigration reform for a second what what would a good policy for these asylum seekers look like right now, Tommy? Thanks for that question, Dan. Well, the Trump administration and the Republicans are basically saying you're either for family detentions and deportations or you're for open borders. And there's no other way that we can deal with these asylum seekers. Are you saying their argument's not on the level? I mean, this is the point i was trying to make earlier which is that the things that we're debating in the press right now as the as the binary choice are not in any way proven to

actually help the problem i mean the way you prevent migration or asylum seeking is improving the conditions for those individuals in the countries where they are coming from right um now that is that is a a wildly unpopular thing to say or policy proposal not only because of donald trump because republicans have demagogued the concept of foreign aid for decades um but if we can do real things to improve the lives of people in el salvador or guatemala or a whole bunch of places, it would improve things. We talk a lot about MS-13 here in this country. Donald Trump acts like it is going to come for us in the night, every one of us here in this room. But at the same time, he doesn't act like it's a legitimate reason to seek asylum. If we could do something to actually crack down

on MS-13 here, but also internationally, even though it's a gang that started in America, that would be a benefit. So, you know, I think on top of that, part of the catch-22 that's been set up for anyone who's trying to seek legitimate asylum in the United States is there are means that the Trump administration has said this is the appropriate legal way to seek asylum. Now people who actually understand the law fundamentally disagree with the idea that you need to hit some sort of predetermined point port of entry to seek asylum in the United States but let's assume that you do. A lot of people who are showing up to these bridges or various ports of

entry are turned away because things are too busy. so you need to unfuck that piece of the process uh if you're going to tell someone that comes across in a raft that they're automatically arrested ripped away from the kid they're breastfeeding and thrown into a cage i was also just gonna say like there is no good legitimate public safety reason to keep these families in detention at all they are like they when when you come the border, it is a misdemeanor charge. They can go, they can be, as they're waiting for their hearing, this whole idea, this whole catch and release thing is bullshit. It is not real.

There was a, Obama started a program, a family case management program where social workers work with asylum seekers while they're waiting for their case to be heard. 99% of the people in that program returned for their hearing. They didn't just escape. They didn't just go into the country. They returned for their hearing. And if they were sent back to their home country because the asylum application didn't go through, they went back. And a lot of times the asylum application did go through and they stayed. So the entire idea... That's a pilot. that's a pilot program that the trump administration shut down a couple months ago right um so you can eliminate family detention in favor of they can stay at home there can be ankle bracelets there can be monitoring

there's a million ways to make sure that someone comes back for their hearing other than keeping them parents and children locked up in detention indefinitely it's's crazy. It's also, one other part of this too is their whole concern is these aren't asylum seekers. These are just people desperate for jobs and for a place to raise their families where they can find work and live in a place that's safe that they can provide and then have to worry all the time. And they say, that is the threat. That's what we must stop. Well, you know, we built a system that said, for 30 years, that said, come, we won't pass a law to stop you, but we won't pass a law to help you. You're going to live as a second-class citizen in the United States where you can work and you can provide and your kids can go to school, but maybe you'll get grabbed in the middle of the night and sent back, but that's the risk you have to take because you've

looked at your options and you still think this is worth it. So if these people are so worried about the fact that people want to come here and work, how about the many different both Democratic and Republican proposals to fix the overall system? If you're worried about, if you want to make sure that the people coming here really are the people seeking asylum, how about have a system of legal immigration that makes sense so that we haven't told a generation of people desperate for work that America is a place to come if, as long as you don't get caught coming in. And that is at the heart of this. You know, Donald Trump scapegoats immigration at all times, but undocumented people commit crimes at less of a rate. They contribute to the economy.

There's no evidence behind the fear-mongering, but the system is completely and totally shattered and broken, and that is definitely Congress's fault. That is definitely Republicans' and Democrats' fault, and none of the things they want to do will fix this. The only thing that we can do to actually fix this is actually address the underlying conditions in the immigration system, but nobody to do that and we're putting kids in cages that will not have any that's the rub that's the rub they don't want to fix the problem trump and his staff are leaking

to politico that they want to run on the issue well it's two things of course right they think it's good politics which we will talk about but also they it's not that they want to fix the immigration system it's not that they want to fix the immigration system. It's not that they want to stop illegal immigration or undocumented people. They want to stop legal immigration. This is a, when you get to the core of what Trump and Steve Bannon and Steve Miller, Stephen Miller, our favorite Santa Monica fascist, care about, is they want fewer non-white people to come to America. They want America to be whiter. Full stop. And that's what it is. And everything else is just, all of this is in service of that pretty disgusting goal.

I will also say, I criticize Democrats a lot on immigration because they are afraid of the issue and they're worried. They look at polls and so they don't take the debate hit on. I do not think it's Democrats' fault that this problem hasn't been solved. We know the outlines of a solution to immigration reform in this country. We know that it's going to be finding a pathway to citizenship for the 11 million people in this country. And we know it's going to be protecting the dreamers. We know it's going to be probably some increased border security, but then we're going to give people a pathway to citizenship. And we know that's the framework because when Obama was president, we had a Senate bill that had Democrats and Republicans together,

coming together, passing a bill that went nowhere in the House because there were a bunch of House Republican extremists in the House. And now they run the whole government. If they put it on the floor, it would have passed with 300 votes. Right. And so we know the problem is that there are people like Trump and Stephen Miller and now most of the House Republicans who don't want to bother with providing a pathway to people who are here, the undocumented people who are here.

They want to cut legal immigration. Yes. We offered them the wall to protect the Dreamers. He responded by saying, no, too compassionate. I'm going to separate parents from children. And we're still having this conversation right so uh do you think this changes the politics of immigration at all do you guys think that this episode will like how damaging is this for trump it was there's an interesting um poll in politico this morning

that showed that interest among republican voters in immigration as a core issue for them that they would vote against is held steady. It basically doubled for Democrats. So I thought that was very interesting and might be a motivating factor. When you look at the question of family separation, it is overwhelmingly unpopular in the United States. There was a poll of just people in Texas. And I don't single out Texas to pick on them. It's just as a border state, like they might be uniquely impacted by the problem,

overwhelmingly opposed by voters in Texas. It's a problem among mostly white Republican men. So I think that Trump is probably motivated, the MAGA base that remains motivated, but that this might actually have harmed them net in terms of getting people out. Dan, what do you think? There was also a Gallup poll today. It said the number of Americans that say immigration is a good thing hit an all-time high of 75%, including 65% of Republicans, 85% of Democrats. Legal immigration is even higher at 84%.

Do you think there was something about this incident that might be changed? Obviously not the Republican base, but Democrats and independents? I think it is, politically, anytime we can remind the rest of the country, people who voted for Hillary Clinton, people who unfortunately didn't vote,

and people who voted for Gary Johnson or even voted for Trump at the end because they thought he was going to lose like this sort of I call them the Comey voters the people who did it right after the letter anytime we remind those we remind those people that Trump is a cruel and incompetent human being I think that is helpful what I think may be the best part about this politically for Democrats is only it's not that it changed the politics of the issue, but it taught Democrats that they can take on this fight and win. Because a lot of Democratic consultants get very nervous when the topic turns to immigration, because now we're not talking

about the tax cuts or health care or the things that are where we traditionally have more strength. tax cuts or health care or the things that are where we traditionally have more strength. And we know that Trump does these things. He picks these immigration fights, these racially tinged immigration fights to fire up his base. But here's the thing. We can't avoid these fights. So we have to figure out how to win them when he picks them. And so I think there were some, you know, I wrote this on a website called Crooked.com today. That's right. But there were some lessons here about how to win these fights. And I hope what comes from this is Democrats having a – because they were great in this, top to bottom, every single one of them. Every single Democrat, including Joe Manchin, supported that bill to end family separation.

And if the lesson taken from this is we can take Trump on on his favorite issue and kick his ass then I think we're going to go into go into the election in the right in the fighting spirit we need to win yeah I also think I think for a long time Democrats have tried to make the argument for immigration reform by saying here's some economic statistics that show why immigration is beneficial to the economy here's why it's safer national security wise here's why this when that show why immigration is beneficial to the economy. Here's why it's safer national security-wise. Here's why this. When you talk to a lot of immigration activists, people who've been working on this issue for a long time, they say that really it needs to be a cultural argument, that it's about sort of revealing our common humanity and showing that these people are our neighbors. They are like us. They are not

other. And I think over the last couple of weeks, the images of, you know, like parents and children, you start seeing like a lot of people around the country see that and be like, that could be me. That could be my child. That could be my parent. That could be my family. And I think this sort of brought the issue home to people in a way that at least on the democratic side, there wasn't that as much emotion around it as you see on the Republican side sometimes. That's the right. We, I mean me in particular, and I've argued with you about this when we were in the White House, is too often you try to sort of elide the issue, right?

Yep. We really care about climate change, but that could raise people's electricity bills. So what we're going to do is we're going to make an argument about new jobs in the solar industry. And it's a jobs bill. It's not a climate change bill. So what we're going to do is we're going to make an argument about new jobs in the solar industry. And it's a jobs bill. It's not a climate change bill or an immigration. We're going to talk to you about how it's going to improve the gross domestic product in the United States. All of those things are true. But if you out of political caution, you miss the moral power of the argument, you're doing yourself a disservice. So maybe a reason to take on immigration reform and do it right it's because it's the humane moral thing to do it's who we are as americans maybe the reason to put in place an aggressive cap in trade bill or carbon tax is because it'd save the fucking planet right yeah yeah i agree um i'm sorry what just one other

thing about that oh we just okay go yeah one thing about this too Oh, okay, go. Yeah, just one other thing about this, too. All of this, you know, once again, Donald Trump, even when he's lying and saying he's not, he admits that he's doing this as leverage. They can't pass a bill in their own caucus to do anything. All this talk about blaming Democrats, they've been arguing amongst themselves without a Democrat in the room, and they can't pass anything.

So I just, on top of all of this, if you care about this issue, the only hope to do anything in Congress is to vote Republicans out and elect Democrats. And that also is part of this because it is true that Democrats have woken up to this issue. That's right.

If you want to give to help reunite a lot of these families, go.crooked.com slash families. These groups have already raised millions of dollars and now most of the money is going towards reunifying families which is great and then there's also going to be a March on June 30th there's a nationwide March we're co-sponsoring it with our friends at move on and a bunch of other organizations it's gonna be on June 30th and cities across the country. So familiesbelongtogether.org

is the website and you can go find a march near you. I want to talk really quickly about health care, which is back in the news again because Republicans cannot help themselves. The ones who aren't into

jailing toddlers are super into taking health care away. It's actually the central... The dividing line. That is the divide in the party. There's the Paul Ryan wing and the toddler jail wing.

And they're both itching for a fight. Yeah, and... So conservative think tankers led by CNN green room resident Rick Santorum, they unveiled a new plan to repeal the Affordable Care Act. Of course, it does away with pre-existing conditions and Medicaid. Dan, it appears that they think this will actually help them in the midterms.

Are they smoking legal weed? What's going on? I don't understand. Something stronger than legal weed. There is no way this helps them in the midterms. Prediction. No. Answer. No.

I think the argument they would say is conservative voters, the base, needs to know that we're going to fight for health care. That's idiocy. But these are idiots, and so this is where we are. I know. Mike Bloomberg just announced that he's going to spend $80 million on the midterms. Shout out Mike Bloomberg. That sound you hear is an infinite number of DC consultants running to catch the Acela to New York. But if you spend all $80 million of that money on the fact that we need to help Democrats win the midterms because Republicans are going to get rid of protections for pre-existing additions or repeal the ACA, I would be very, very happy.

I mean, this is like the issue we want to run. Well, and they gave us one more on top of the new ACA repeal plan. House Republicans put out a budget proposal this week. They would make $8 trillion in cuts gutting medicare and medicaid uh so now they're coming after and social security so now they're coming after your medicare and social security this has been paul ryan's dream and now they're going to try to pass a budget that does these things which i can only imagine every single democrat in the land running an election will now go out there and say they're trying to take your health care away cut your

medicaid your medicare and your social security and the house republicans have just served this up on a platter can you imagine that i just you hope so well so the scary thing about this is it looks like what the house republicans are up to here they are going to try to pass this budget then they're going to try to get it to the senate which means that they will have another reconciliation vehicle in the fall which means that they will have another reconciliation vehicle in the fall, which means that the Senate then could pass this budget with 51 votes. If that happens after the election and the Republicans do lose, you could have a lame duck Congress where suddenly now Republicans who are about to go out of power try to one more time to repeal the Affordable

Act. John, do these people need to know this? I know. Here's a terrible thing you can do nothing about until after the election. Well, they haven't passed the budget yet, so we can hopefully try to stop the House Republicans from passing the budget. Yeah. All right. And make sure that the Senate knows.

John's the guy at dinner if you're like, this really itches. He's WebMDing it and just reading the results. And make sure that the Senate knows, too, because right now we probably couldn't pass the Senate at all because the Senate didn't pass the last ACA repeal. But in the fall, you know. Alright, I'm going to say...

I'm going to say... Putting the warning out there, folks. We've got to fight. We've got to make sure this is central to our message because making it central to our message will not only help us win, it'll help make it less likely to pass out of the House. That's number one. Number two, we can make a little rule. We don't have to worry about the lame duck

till after November, whatever. All you have to know is that Republicans are ruthless in their attempts to take away all your health care. Yeah, you know, Brian Schatz, who's very good, I think, at making arguments on Twitter and making the right arguments, Democrats said... The highest compliment. You're very good at making arguments on Twitter.

Congratulations, Senator Democrats said. The highest compliment. You're very good at making arguments on Twitter. Congratulations, Senator from Hawaii. You're a senator, you represent a state. But good job with the Twitter arguments. By the way, it's shots.

Yeah, it's also shots. I know it's shots. Hold on, we're going to fix it. I think Brian Schatz, among being one of the great leaders in the Senate, is also somebody who does a really good job of making arguments, including on Twitter. And one of the things he said recently was... Now it sounds like you just made them laugh by credentialing.

We can leave it all in. Who cares? Oh, no, my reputation. Reputation doesn't matter anymore. There's no such thing anymore. But anyway, his point was liberal, I'm sorry, Democrat, Republican, independent. It doesn't matter if you care about your health care, vote for Democrats and take back the House. I think that's like a very simple argument to make. That for a game we call OK Stop. We roll the clip. The panel can say OK Stop at any point to comment. Last night in Duluth, Minnesota, Donald Trump rallied his base of people who are on the fence about fences that keep in children uh for an

unbiased view of the president's performance we turn to a man who probably writes angry views about lacrosse equipment tucker calls let's roll the clip president donald trump addressing a rally of supporters in duluth minnesota hitting a number of topics, some you'd expect, some you wouldn't. Our friend Tammy Bruce was watching the entire speech, and she joins us tonight for some reaction. This crowd loved the Space Force idea. Oh my goodness, toward the end there

at the speech, they were chanting Space Force. And you know, really, it's the 21st... Okay, stop. This crowd loved the Space Force idea. They chanted Space Force. They will literally chant anything you say. Anything. Anything.

Anything. Double-decker taco. You could get them to chant anything. They'd be very conflicted about that one. Why not? So I'm thrilled with it. You can clearly see the connection with his own basic theory and his commitment to the country. Who is this unbiased advisor who's here to tell us about this rally?

Tammy Bruce? Not a clue. Never seen it. You might remember her from the time when she mocked a little boy who asked Mike Pence to apologize to him for bumping into him. But the boy was autistic. And she made fun of him on television for being a snowflake. A Lewandowski type, I see. She apologized.

But she mocked a 10-year-old boy. Yeah, she did. Womp womp, I guess, right? Yeah, womp womp. She mocked the 10-year-old boy. Yeah, she did. Womp womp, I guess, right? Yeah, womp womp.

The issue on the border with the family separation issue and the actions he's taken. But some people look at what we just saw and conclude that guy's Hitler. And they say it on the other channels. They mean it with dead seriousness. Part of it's to distract. Part of it's because that's how they really feel. How are they reaching that conclusion? I don't see that at all. because that's how they really feel.

How are they reaching that conclusion? I don't see that at all. How could they think that about our president? So what could he have possibly? Yeah, I mean. This is a great setup, too. It's like, so everyone, every Democrat sees that, and they're like, he's a Nazi.

And we're like, he's not a Nazi. What's their problem? Yeah. Hey, they think he's Hitler. He's not, right? We're not crazy. Are we crazy? Is he Hitler?

I don't think he is, right? I don't know. But no, he's not. Let's take a break. We come back. I don't know megadeth well and that's because when you're conservative uh just because of 85 of the media really is is center left we get a variety of okay stop i just want to take a moment they do they get fox news they get your info wars you get your bright bar i just

want to take a moment though i do want to applaud the nuance of her saying center left. Center left. Yeah. 85% is an interesting number too. She's saying this on the most watched cable news station in the world. I think it's worth just examining Tucker Carlson for a second. Who?

Is it? Is it? Well, I guess we'll find out. Someone who, Tucker Carlson, someone who now is a pitchfork-wielding populist who will fight against the elites. From Georgetown. Yes, where he lives, yes. Yes.

And the full transformation of Tucker Carlson in his life from editor of a conservative magazine, host of Crossfire, how he went from editor of a conservative magazine, host of Crossfire, how he went from elite to populist is he traded his bow tie in for this Brooks Brothers tie. Yeah, he was a nerdy conservative who became a white nationalist grifter. Yeah, he is. Yeah. We have sources and we hear a bunch of different kinds of perspectives. ...of sources, and we hear a bunch of different kinds of perspectives.

If you're only watching a single network, or even a few other networks... Okay, stop. So, John, one thing... Look, Tucker wants to laugh. He really wants to laugh. You can definitely feel what Tucker's thinking, which is, I don't want to fucking book her. She's a lame guest. This is too much even for me.

I'm just going to let her go. I'll ask, to fucking book her. She's a lame guest. This is too much even for me. I'm just going to let her go. I'll ask like two questions. And then I don't know what I'll do. Go be a villain in Revenge of the Nerds? But think of it. Like there's all this data. And it shows that liberals get their news from a variety of sources. Some that lean left and some that are

more mainstream and republicans have have fox they have fox and a few other tiny always talking about themselves facebook posts from their uncle yeah and and and middle-class russians who've made a compromise that's the news diet to watch let say, a network like Fox that has a variety of opinions. You're going to hear. I didn't even know that was coming. I didn't know that was either. Yeah, that's a joke wrote itself. Yeah, you got it.

24-7 is this harangue. Then you begin to believe that everybody thinks this. And you get effectively conditioned into believing this is the genuine state. These people, do they really not know they're talking about themselves? So then this crazy thing happens, is a corporation realizes

there's an advantage to doing this, so they slowly but surely build a propaganda apparatus that makes it possible for us to influence millions and millions of retirees, and once we do that, they'll believe anything, because we've not only protected telling what the truth is, we keep the bad stories from them. And over time, they become more and more conditioned to what we say, and then they'll just do what we say.

And I'm talking about MSNBC. That is exactly right. And it has huge consequences for this country, which we'll discuss after the break. By the way, by the way, I just want to to say congrats to facebook on their partnership with fox news good work great job what oh yeah great work mark zuckerberg facebook's partnered with fox news so that one of the like 10 media outlets that they'll have on live video is fox news now oh announcement just today so great job on the great job? Great job cracking down on the fake news. Oh, I'm so upset.

We're so proud of you. So proud of you. Facebook. What's it for? Other than destroying our democracy from within. What is its second use? Birthdays. Unbelievable.

And that's okay, stop! As we were just discussing, Fox News is not good. So before we're joined by Stacey Abrams, I don't know if you guys know this, but a clique of right-wing billionaires and conservative apparatchiks have built a massive, sprawling propaganda apparatus

that misinforms, falsely assures, and radicalizes millions of Americans, but creates an incentive structure that leads ambitious craven pundits to say the most vile and dishonest arguments possible in the hopes of crafting a lucrative career poking the supple amygdalas of retirees in Arizona. And believe it or not, these bad-faith arguments often seep out from the sides of the makeup-wearing eel tank we call Fox News and end up in the real world. So tonight we want to explore

some of these arguments and the responses in a game we call The Devil's Advocate Went Down to Georgia. Here's how it works. We're going to look at some of the arguments that Trump and his allies have been making on Fox News and right-wing radio and on Twitter to attack the Mueller investigation, and then our panelists will respond. Are you guys ready? Ready. Argument one.

Click. Click. Click. That was definitely what the Kanye song was titled. What are we saying? Click. Click. Click.

You guys look it up. They're both acceptable. Once or twice you've taken issue with my pronunciation so I thought I would just bring it up. I'm Webster's. Can we play the game? Argument. I'm trying. Argument one. Shut up. Let's face it. The anti-Trump text

sent by FBI agent Peter Strzok proves... I don't know. Sextor number one. Sextor number one proves that this investigation was bogus from the start. I mean, come on. Also, my lawyer is Trump's lawyer, but don't tell anyone. What is the liberal response? I will handle this.

Sorry, but Mueller learned about the text messages a year ago and Strozik immediately resigned. Then there was a whole probe into it which found no link between the investigative decisions and the political views of Strozik, section number two, or anyone else. The IG report actually had nothing to do with the Mueller investigation. It was actually about how the FBI and the DOJ

departed from protocol in a way that helped defeat Hillary Clinton and elect Donald Trump. There is no evidence suggesting Strozik did anything to influence current investigation, but there is plenty of evidence that Comey violated the rules in a way that helped Donald Trump become president of the United States. Thank you, Jim Comey. All I heard was I hate the troops. We'll be right back. Now enjoy these ads for Easy Glide catheters. Argument number two.

Look at the facts. Those FBI agents are all registered Democrats who donated to Clinton, and Mueller himself worked for Obama for eight years. It's all biased. 13 angry Democrats. That's a phrase I've heard. I treat Ann Coulter like she's a normal person. We get lunch.

Here are the facts. Mueller is a Republican. He was appointed to office by Reagan and both Bushes. He served longer under George W. Bush than he did under Obama. And in this case, he was appointed by a Republican. He was appointed to office by Reagan and both Bushes. He served longer under George W. Bush than he did under Obama. And in this case, he was appointed by another Republican, Rod Rosenstein. We don't know anything about the identities and the party affiliations of the FBI agents involved. Historically, FBI agents are older white guys who love law enforcement and are more conservative. Oh, so you think Mulder and Scully aren't liberals?

What planet are you on? She loves science and he has sex all over his face. When we come back, my interview with Eric Trump. Fuck. Argument three. The president is the head of the executive branch. That comes from

a little thing called the Constitution. He has authority over all federal investigations. That means he has the authority to issue pardons, fire officials, do executions in the executive branch. That comes from a little thing called the constitution. He has authority over all federal investigations. That means he has the authority to issue pardons, fire officials, do executions in the Rose Garden. None of that could be obstruction because as he is the chief law enforcement officer, it would mean he is obstructing himself, and that's how David Carradine died. That one stayed in, huh? Here are the facts. Most constitutional scholars believe that the president cannot pardon himself.

Of course the president can obstruct justice. Otherwise, he could shut down murder investigations if the killer paid him a bribe. Of course the president can't pardon himself. Otherwise, he could shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue. The president is not above the law. You know what I say to that? I say womp womp. How dare you? How

absolutely dare you? Womp womp womp womp womp womp. It's a real esoteric reference. And that's the devil's advocate went down to Georgia. When we come back, Dan and Tommy will talk to Stacey Abrams. Stacey! Stacey! Stacey! She's the former Georgia House Minority Leader and now the Democratic nominee for Governor Georgia, Stacey Abrams! Thank you. Thank you so much. Wow.

We have never had a WWE-style pro wrestling announcement. That was, that was, that was thrilling for me. Well, thank you. Um, it really was for you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being here. Um, so for years, Democrats have been looking at demographic changes in Georgia and saying there's a big opportunity there for Democrats to win statewide, but it just hasn't happened yet. Trump carried the state in 2016. We haven't had a lot of statewide successes. A lot of national Democrats are disappointed when John Ossoff lost his special election. How are you going to change that? Why is this time different? So first of all, John lost because in part that was a really Republican district. Georgia is not a Republican state.

I just like to say Georgia's blue, just very confused. And we know that the demographics have changed. We know demography isn't destiny, but it is a path. And what we have done differently, what we did in May and what we will do to November, is actually talk to all of the Democrats in Georgia. We know that if you actually talk to them, if you go to the communities we normally overlook, if you talk to independent thinkers who want to be brought to the right side of justice, we have enough voters in Georgia to

win an election. Georgia Democrats lose roughly by 240,000 votes. We have more than a million eligible registered Democratic-leaning voters. We just have to talk to them and invest in making sure they turn out, and that means investing in field. Pundits who talk about your path to victory often cite getting votes from african american voters who didn't turn out in 2016 what does the democratic party have to do to actually reach those voters to convince them that democrats will fight to improve their lives we say it's two things one it's message and the second is mobilization we have to have candidates who actually talk about the issues that resonate for all communities,

talking about public education and investing fully in public education. It's about having a conversation. You know, Atlanta gets a great rap for having great jobs, but if you aren't in the right part of Atlanta or the right part of Georgia, you are struggling to make ends meet. So it's about having a conversation about a diverse and thriving economy. And's about good government like expanding medicaid in the state of georgia as you as you've been going around talking to voters have the have you heard them thinking about this election differently than in your previous races because what happened 2016 and

maybe also in the in john in john's race i think that there is a sense of urgency, but there's also a sense of enthusiasm. We know what losing feels like. We are excited about the possibility of winning. But it's also, I think, part of what we've tried to do in our campaign. We call it a people-powered campaign for a reason. Our mission is to bring everyone to the table. We built the most diverse coalition of voters on May 22nd. We won 76% of the vote, 153 of 159 counties. But what that reflects is that we actually talked to, we won every major demographic group. And what I think is universal throughout the state is a sense that while 16 was devastating in both its actuality and in its results, it's also reminded us that voting matters and that in the state of Georgia,

our opportunity is now because if we miss this one, we're in trouble for a long time. this one, we're in trouble for a long time. So national politics, it's pretty bleak. You read the news all day. You get angry. You're frustrated. There's not a lot that makes you feel hopeful. But when we've gone to states, when we were in Austin, Texas with Beto O'Rourke, your people are fired up. They're ready to win elections. It makes you feel hopeful. When you're traveling around Georgia, what are you hearing from folks? And what can you share with the Pod Save America audience that might make them feel excited

and fired up through election day? Well, and I've been to all but four counties. I'm going to get there by the end of July. They're all in South Georgia, but I'm on my way. But I talk about the same thing no matter where I am. And I talk about a woman named Pam that I met. And I know this sounds like what you say when you do politics, but I really did meet a woman named Pam, who has worked at the Piggly Wiggly for 20 years, is putting both of her daughters through college, raising her grandchild who was just born, and she has never thought about what she wants for herself. She just said, I'm going to work at

Piggly Wiggly till I die. She wants someone to invest in her because she wants to start a daycare center, and she was so excited to have a governor actually ask her what she wants. I talked to folks about my brother Walter. Walter is bipolar. Walter is a heroin addict, and he just finished his second stint in prison, and he loses his health insurance each time he gets out of prison because Mississippi, like Georgia, hasn't expanded Medicaid, but he also can't get a job, and he can't find a place to live. They are excited to know, number one, that I'm willing to talk about my brother because I'm not ashamed of him. He's a mission. ashamed of him. He's a mission. And they want a governor who understands that Georgia had the fourth highest incarceration rate. They were all somebody's brother, somebody's sister, somebody's mother, somebody's child. And you may have known, you may have heard, I have some debt.

I've made good money and I've spent it on lots of different people besides myself. I have parents that I take care of and a niece that my parents are raising and my grandmother lives with them. And they like knowing, yes, yay debt. I think what gets people excited is having a governor who can talk about the real lives that people live. And so it's not about mythos and it's not about, you know, a slogan. It's about having someone running for this office who's actually lived our lives. And that's what they want. When?

When you win in November, you'll be the first African-American woman governor in the history of the United States. I know that seems like a shocker. Do you let yourself think about what that potentially historic first can mean? Does it inform the way you think about it? Does it form the way in which you're running your campaign? Being a black woman from the deep south informs the way I run my campaign. And I mean it in this way.

You know, I wrote this book called Minority Leader. And yeah, it's available. But the point behind the book was that there are experiences that you have when you are a minority. There are experiences that happen because you're a woman, because you're a person of color, because you're from the South, because you're poor. All of those pieces inform who I am and how I wound up in the space. It was both motivation and sometimes deterrence. And I think about that every single day, which is why I work so hard to talk to so many people.

And I work so hard to make sure we're reaching out to communities that are normally ignored by politics. It is exciting to me that I have the opportunity to change what the face of leadership looks like in America in a really dramatic way. Thank you. really dramatic way.. . . Your future opponents, currently multiple, there will be one at some point,

are some interesting characters. . They're kind of bumbling idiots. So I have a two-part question. Why don't your campaign ads feature you pointing guns at teenagers? Why didn't you buy your house at a discount from a lobbyist? I do know how to shoot. I'm from Mississippi.

And the first thing you learn when you learn to hold a firearm is you don't point it at other people. All right. I'll write that down. Firearms 101. Number two, I bought my house in 2004. I'm still paying for it. And I will leave it there.

I will leave it there. Before we play a game, what can people here in the crowd and what can people listening back home do to help out your campaign if they like what they heard and they want to support you? So we say there are three things. The first, of course,

and this is going to be shocking to everyone who's paying attention to politics, money helps a lot. And it doesn't matter how much. Every dollar counts. and we are extraordinarily privileged to have more than 40,000 individual donors to our campaign. Number two, thank you. See, again, as many cheers as the other stuff, but it's okay. Two is mobilization. We need folks who volunteer for us. We do texting nationwide. In fact, my younger brother, Walter,

he actually volunteers for my campaign, and he sends text messages through Hustle for me. That's important. We do national phone banking. So anyone who wants to volunteer, we will find a way to use your labor here. Or if you live here, we also need you to knock doors. And then third is messaging. Going on social media and talking about this campaign, talking about why it matters. We can't tell, I can tell people what I want to do for them, but they want to hear from other people like them. And so having folks who don't necessarily share my last name say, this is why you need

to vote. So it's mobilization, it's message, and it's money. And that will help us achieve our mission and we will win. And that will help us achieve our mission and we will win. I just want to say one last thing before we play it again, which is my brother has lived in the Atlanta area for more than 15 years. He is a dyed-in-the-wool Democrat. He is in the audience tonight. And he has been waiting that whole time for a candidate like you. So I'm very excited for your awesome,

very excited that you're running. I'm also excited for Democrats in Georgia who are waiting for a chance to win and they have you to do that for them. Thank you so much. Thank you both. The next Governor of Georgia, Stacey Abrams. Come on out.

Hey, guys. Bring back the guys to play a game. Thank you. You guys want to play a game? Would anyone out there like to play the game? Hi, what's your name? Hi, I'm Maddie. Maddie, are you from Atlanta or environs?

No, yeah, I've lived in Atlanta for about three years, just bought a house here. Cool. Homeowner. Homeowner. What was it, Maddie? Yes. Great. Say it twice or I'll lose it, you know?

All right. Early this summer, Democrats from all over the great state of Georgia took five minutes on from watching Queer Eye to head to the polls and elect Stacey Abrams to be their nominee for the governor's race. And while that may be peachy, hold for applause till the end of Pride Month. There is still a lot of work to be done to make sure Stacey Abrams is your next governor. So as the Republican Party gears up for a runoff between the bad guy in a romantic comedy, Brian Kemp, and the bad guy's lawyer in a romantic comedy, Chris Cagle, we thought we'd highlight just how stark a choice Georgia will face in a game we're calling, and I need your help on the title,

He's Leavin' on that midnight train to Georgia to stop people from getting health care. Maddie, you ready? Yes, I am. You guys ready? You guys have your cards, panelists? Ready. Question one. One of the candidates in the runoff,

Lieutenant Governor Casey Cagle, was just recently caught on tape admitting to what? Is it A, that he only decided to support a controversial bill he described as bad a thousand different ways because it would damage a political rival? Or was it B, that he privately thinks the Falcons suck and the Peaches taste like

trash, and that the show Atlanta could have been good but focuses way too much on all that supernatural stuff? And to be honest, a laugh track could have made the whole thing feel more fun. Oh, and also, Al Kass is overrated. That was the one! That was the one! That is so surprising! That is amazing!

That is fantastic! I learned so much! Or is it C? That was just wrong. Sorry. That for the last 30 years, he's been playing the same game of tag with his childhood friends. And this year, they're finally going to get their one friend who has never been tagged. State Senator Jeremy Renner.

Or is it D? That one time when he was a kid, he listened to a seashell, but instead of hearing the ocean, he heard the sound of an ageless voice telling him that one day he will fight against expanding Medicaid in Georgia and that it will be his undoing. To this day, he's terrified of the beach. That was a weird one. Maddie, what do you think? For the record, pundit is an angel, and it's A. That is correct.

But the... Good job, Elisa. But what is the actual answer? A. Yes, also correct. So funny. Question number two. Casey Cagle's opponent in the runoff, Secretary of State Brian Kemp,

recently raised... They're not fans. He recently raised eyebrows after he released an ad where he did what? A. Painted the word Obamacare on the side of a school bus, then pushed the bus into the Chattahoochee River. Is it B? Points a shotgun at a teenage boy, which is so, so, so tough and so cool. And what real men do to prove just how tough they are. Is it B, points a shotgun at a teenage boy, which is so, so, so tough and so cool, and what real men do to prove just how tough they are? Is it C, calmly and eloquently laid out his positions in a non-offensive manner?

Or is it D, challenged Casey to skip the voting and settle this in the octagon, which later turned out to be a bouncy castle that Brian Kemp weirdly owns. What do you think, Maddie? Well, it feels like D. B. No, sorry. Obviously it's B. You got it. Sure. Whatever.

Question three. As we all know, some horrific and inhumane things have been happening on our southern border recently. How does Brian Kemp say he will deal with this issue of immigration is it a he wants to open the borders and declare all immigration legal thereby technically reducing illegal immigration by 100 is it b he said he's not sure but he can promise one thing it will be politically incorrect and not very well thought out and needlessly cruellessly cruel. Is it C? Be there for them. Like, really there.

Like, show up with a bottle of wine, a box of tissues, and a Blu-ray of the notebook after he dumps you there. Or is it D? Despite the fact that only the federal government can deport people, Brian Kemp said he would, quote,

round up immigrants and, quote, take them home in his pickup truck. D. You got it, Maddie. It's D. Final question. Democratic nominee Stacey Abrams is currently the only candidate left in the race who outwardly disports

what? Is it A. Automatic voter registration. B. Medicaid expansion. C. Need-based aid for higher education. D. Universal pre-K. E. Elimination of cash bail. F. Raising the minimum wage. G. Clean energy. H. Not pointing a gun at a teenager in a campaign ad.

Or I. By the way, did you see that Casey Cagle bought a condo from a natural gas lobbyist for a company with a business for the state seemingly at a discount? Weird. What do you think, Maddie? I think it's J, all the above. You're right. You've got it.

Stacey Abrams is not only the best candidate for the job, she'd also be the very first woman elected governor of Georgia and the very first black female governor in the history of the United States. So get out there, knock on some doors, make some calls, donate, talk to your parents, and make it happen. The next governor of the state of Georgia, Stacey Abrams. Thank you so much. AAC! AAC! AAC!

Oh, it's similar. Whatever. AAC! AAC! AAC! AAC! AAC! It's December. Whatever. Alrighty. We have time for a couple questions. Yeah, right here. Hey, my name is Meredith. What's up, y'all? Love y'all.

What do you think the biggest mistake Democrats are still making is? What time do we have to be out of here? Yeah, how much time you got? That is such a good question. Who wants to start? I'll do it. I'll do it.

I think too many, pick one, yes. I think the biggest mistake that too many Democrats are making is that they think the best path to victory is to try to win over swing voters as opposed to turn out voters who didn't turn out and the reason that's a mistake is it's a false choice because if we make our progressive arguments with reason and with passion we can do both and it shouldn't be this sort of sliced sliced down the middle small, big politics is the way to win here. Yeah, it's fear, which is always the mistake.

It's being terrified of taking on these big debates, whether it's immigration or something else that might be uncomfortable. They get all these polls, and we talk about this all the time here, which is like, you've got to talk about the economy. Health care is the main issue. You've got to talk about the economy, healthcare is the main issue, you got to talk about the tax cut. I mean, we've said that a million times and it's true. And yet, you don't control the news cycle and you don't control what Donald Trump's going to say. And so when he says something

and the news is covering something, you have to be part of that debate and you have to find a way to be part of that debate and argue your case on that debate and not just go around, Lovett likes to make this joke all the time, but like, you know, Chuck Schumer doing an event at a gas station because there's gas prices while Donald Trump is like tweeting crazy shit about, you know, Mueller or the migrant

crisis or anything like that. So I do think that Democrats have to not be afraid to go right at what Donald Trump is saying. You don't make your election about Donald Trump, but you have to be part of the debate. Can I say one more thing about Donald Trump, but you have to be part of the debate. Can I say one more thing about this? Yeah. It's very easy to crap on Democrats, but we have been in every state that's having a big race, almost, over the last year and a half,

and we get to see the candidates, and the candidates are people like Stacey Abrams and Beto O'Rourke, who are making these proud progressive arguments. So don't just turn on cable news and Twitter and think Democrats are doing a shitty job, because the people who are actually running the races, who are winning these special elections in these deep Republican states, are doing it the right way. So we should be very proud of what the party is doing in this era.

We have not interviewed, met a single Democratic candidate who is doing it the wrong way. That's because if they're doing it the wrong way, they turned down an invitation to come on the show. Also, another just related to that, there's a model of recruiting candidates where you go out and you pick the richest person that lives there so they can pay for all their own ads. I think that was probably an okay idea in 2006,

but it's after watching Jeb Bush storm into town with a $100 million super pack and get his ass handed to him. Just set it on fire. Just set it on fire. Look at his fire I made with the money. Jeb Bush never storms anywhere. He slowly and nervously ambles. Lope into a debate stage.

Sorry I set it on fire. You look at candidates like Amy McGrath in Kentucky, the fighter pilot who released this two-minute bio spot that nearly bankrupted her campaign, but got millions of views and tons of contributions and ignited this grassroots firestorm behind her candidacy. That's the kind of person I think that we need to be looking for. Someone who has a personal story that brings to life the values and things they stand for and

that we stand for as a party and then brings those to a campaign versus like how many ads can you pay for? That's a great question. Yeah. So I have only volunteered for a politician once. It was for Stacey Abrams. I phone banked one weekend because I have a toddler. My question is, going door-to-door absolutely terrifies me. I'm terrified of people who will scream at me or not agree with me, and I don't talk well on my feet. Excuse me.

It's the champagne. don't talk well on my feet. What, excuse me, it's the champagne. What do you guys suggest to people like me who have never really gotten involved in politics before but are passionate? How do we get over that nervousness and afraidness of getting out there? That's a great question.

I can take that. I have totally been there. The wallflower's gonna take it. Look, look, look, Emily, you and I are introverts Totally been there. The wallflower is going to take it. Finally. Finally it'll be heard. Look, look, Emily, you and I are introverts and it's something that we struggle with. No, but I... I get that. I think one of the things that helps is just to get yourself to do it.

So first of all, by the way, so John and I went knocking on doors for Swing Left. And there were some people who were like, not interested, not buying, shut the door. And it's amazing how much that doesn't hurt after the third time. But, but, but. There were some tears. Yeah. Was it something I, it's about me, isn't it? I'm polarizing.

The, but the good news is especially a lot of times what they're trying to do is actually just send you to Democratic doors to get people who are people that probably will vote for Democrats if they just get out the vote. And that's really great. But the other thing is like, I've gotten that. Like I was, I usually dread, I've had dread in the past, like dialing phone calls calling people at random it's a certain kind of interaction that like i find really hard i'm just not good at it like i don't know how to start a conversation like that it's why i forget everyone's name when they play a game during the shows um emily i know emily's name yeah no but but um i think the best thing you can do is just try it and i think one

of the things i would say to anybody how many people in here have never knocked on a door before? Be honest, it's fine. Wow. So here's the thing. It seems really daunting. So one of the things that I've, I haven't done it that much in the past. I did a little bit on each campaign that I've been on.

But one of the things that happens when you do it, you're like, you know what? That was a little stressful at first, but then it kind of turns into a game. And you're like, how many doors can I knock on the next two hours? How many doors can I knock on the first? So here's my deal. It is intimidating. It is hard. If you go twice and you don't want to

do it again, that's okay. Write a bigger check. But anyone here who raised their hand because they've been intimidated about doing it, it's really, really not so bad. A friend of yours has done it before. You can go with them or not. They will make it super easy. There's an app on your phone. Find a friend, but just do it once and you will realize like, oh, participating is actually really inspiring. It's not arguing on Twitter. Twitter's inception. It's not real. My first real campaign job was in 2002 and I got sent to Buncombe County, North Carolina, which is like as far west as you get. Real Asheville crew over here. And I hated cold calling people, so I made up a fake name.

I was Jackson Jessup from the Buncombe County Democratic Party. It just made it easier. That's so funny. I think maybe you are Jackson Jessup. What if Tommy Vietro is your fake name? If his shoe fits. And then when I got sent to Iowa in 2007, I was a press guy. So I dealt with people that were way worse than the people I met at the door.

I was a little Trumpy and I'm just kidding. I just dealt with annoying reporters all day. But my boss would always send us out to everybody who worked on the campaign, no matter how important or not you were, everyone did field. So we would send out and like, I was completely intimidated too. And getting turned away, like Lovett said, it hurts, it hurts, it hurts. And I remember walking up to this lady who was literally mowing her lawn. It was like a cliche of an Iowa caucus story. She was on a ride on mower. I walked up and I waved. I didn't want these. She turned the thing off and I got a supporter card, which is a one, which means you like Obama and you're going to caucus him, and I felt like a conquering hero.

And so that's just a long way of saying that the successes feel really good. And I remember every minute of that and where I was, and I don't remember any of the people who turned me down, and it's worth it. I will say one more thing about this, which is John and Tommy are right that it's hard to do it the first time,

but it's more fun than you think it's hard to do the first do it the first time but it's far less it's more fun than you than you think it's going to be but it can be intimidating that's right and it can be tiring and it can be annoying that you're gonna have to take part of your saturday to do this but you know what is also intimidating and tiring and annoying trump exactly stacy abrams not winning so it's like if every time you get scared, think about that. Like, this is the most important election in the history of this country. And we are only going to win it if every single person does everything they can do. So we all have to do the things we don't want to do.

Citizenship is awesome, but it's hard. And so we're going to have to do the things we don't want to do. Citizenship is awesome, but it's hard, and so we're gonna have to do the hard work to win. And so, get out there, take a friend, do it, you'll feel better after doing it. Then you'll feel fucking great when you have Stacey Abrams as your governor. None of you, all of you can do it. Every person here who raised their hand

has no fucking excuse. Do it. It's pathetic. You came to this show, You can knock on doors. You're not better than it. You're not, you're not, it's not above you.

It's not beneath you. Knock on some fucking doors. Get over yourselves. If you care, your Twitter doesn't matter as much as knocking on doors. We have to get offline and go out there

and fucking do it because it's too goddamn important. Thank you Atlanta for coming out tonight. We love you. We'll be right back. I'm out.