Pod Save America - “The Convention is good!”

Episode Date: August 20, 2020

The first three days of the Democratic National Convention features a wide variety of locations, segments, and speakers, including major addresses from Bernie Sanders, Michelle Obama, Jill Biden, Barack Obama, and Kamala Harris. Then Elizabeth Warren talks to Dan about her convention speech and her efforts to save the U.S. Postal Service.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, please visit crooked.com/psa.For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail].

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's pod, Elizabeth Warren talks to Dan about her convention speech and her efforts to save the post office. Before that, we'll talk about some of the most memorable moments and speeches from the first three nights of the Democratic National Convention. Few quick housekeeping notes before we start. Check out this week's Pod Save the World, where Palestinian foreign policy expert Rula Jabril joins Tommy and Ben to explain the downsides of the U.S.-Israel-UAE deal. And they also cover the Senate Intel Committee's blockbuster report on Russian election interference. It happened. There you go. Check out this week's episode of Missing America, where Ben Rhodes takes

on the rising spread of nationalism. It's a fantastic podcast. Check it out wherever you get yours. Also, check out the latest campaign experts react for the Pod Save America Hacks on Tap crossover you've all been waiting for. David Axelrod joins Dan to break down some campaign ads on YouTube.com slash Crooked Media. Fun episode. Is YouTube.com the appropriate way of saying it? Do we have to say that?

Do people just go to YouTube? No, you have to do the site. The site is slash Crooked Media. It's backslash Crooked Media. I don't know. Either way, super fun to talk with Axe about new ads from the Biden campaign, the relaunched Trump campaign strategy. And we looked at a very interesting ad from North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper about masks,

which is, you should check it out and adopt North Carolina as part of the Vote Save America Adopt-A-State program. Good plug, good plug. Finally, tonight on the last night of the Democratic National Convention, check out our Pod Save America live pre-show on crooked.com slash convention.

Love it. Tommy, Dan, and I will all be there recapping the biggest moments of this year's convention, looking back at some previous conventions, maybe even playing some drinking games. We promise it will be a lot better than anything that's on cable, though I do realize that is a very low bar.

But join us anyway at 5 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m. Eastern. It is crooked.com slash convention. We'll have the whole show. It'll be fun. John, what do

Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, Joe Biden, Jill Biden, Kamala Harris, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, and the four of us

have in common? I don't know. What do we all have in common? We're all officially part of the convention program. That's right. We are on the agenda. We are a pre-show. So like on one hand, we did get an hour, which is great.

On the other hand, it's not streamed as part of the official convention, though it is on the official convention program. Yeah, we're the opening act. I am okay with that. We started this podcast four years ago. Where are we going to be in four years? That's the question. Probably in prime time.

Look, we are opposite Phil Murphy and the Democratic governors who also have a pre-show at 8 o'clock. It's a tough slot. It's a tough slot. It's a tough slot. Some of you Phil heads might be over on the other stream watching that. But, you know, if not, come check us out. All right.

We have now seen the first three nights of the only Democratic National Convention not to take place in an actual convention hall with a cheering crowd of delegates and supporters. Instead, each day has given us two hours of primetime programming that's included a mix of pre-produced videos, montages, musical acts, and live speeches from locations all across the country, featuring an incredibly diverse array of Americans from across the political spectrum. Joe Biden has officially been nominated as the Democratic Party's presidential candidate, and he will accept that nomination in a speech from Wilmington, Delaware, tonight, Thursday. So, Dan, we're going to save our reflections on the entire week for Friday's bonus pod with Tommy and Lovett.

But before we get to the big speeches we've heard so far, I have two questions for you. Okay, great. First, general reaction to the week so far, just as you've been watching this unfold. And second, from a political standpoint, what, if anything, do you think the Democrats in the Biden campaign have accomplished so far? So general reaction is I had no idea what to expect heading into this week. This is, I mean, truly unprecedented how they were going to pull this off. It was a relatively short period of time because it wasn't that long ago that Biden was planning to be in Milwaukee, largely by himself, but in Milwaukee, Kamala Harris would

be in Milwaukee. But they had to change all of that and put most of this together very quickly. And I think it has gone tremendously well. I think one thing that is sort of understated in the coverage of this, and I think this is one of the things that they have accomplished politically, is there's a lot of sort of Twitter theater criticism about how it was going and whether it was cringy and didn't love some of these videos, or is it weird that Eva Longoria or Kerry Washington or Tracee Ellis Ross are the ones sort of moderating this? But what I think that misses is the medium is the message here. The abnormality of this convention is in part making Joe Biden's core political argument,

which is that because Donald Trump is such a terrible president, we cannot gather in Milwaukee. So all of the weirdness buttresses that argument about how Trump has failed to handle the coronavirus, and that is to their benefit. In addition to that, and I think the organizers did an unbelievable job in putting this together. It is, I think, the creativity, the execution under tremendous circumstances is phenomenal. But they went into this convention with the goal of deepening knowledge of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris to the many voters who know them by name, but not by person and not by policy agenda. And I think they've made a lot of progress on that. It's up to Joe Biden to close that deal tonight in his speech. It's up to Joe Biden to close that deal tonight in his speech.

I have been so pleasantly surprised and I have been happier with the convention as it has gone on each day. Like there are certain things that absolutely just didn't work, partly because they tried so many unique things throughout this convention. Different kinds of pieces, different locations, different kinds of people. I mean, it really ran the gamut. So of course, there were a few things here and there that didn't work. But I think the real coup here is how they basically have tricked the media into covering a full two hours of convention material every single night. So like you and I know that, and people who have seen conventions before, typically there's about three hours per night, each night of a convention. The large majority of that time is spent, you know, giving every elected Democratic official who holds an office a chance to give a speech.

who holds an office a chance to give a speech. Usually most of those speeches, 90% of those speeches are pedestrian at best. And then there are sort of highly produced videos that are supposed to illustrate something about the nominee's life, their record, their plans. And during those videos, most of the networks will cut away

to a bunch of pundits on cnn or msnbc or fox or wherever just blabbing about whatever and they don't feel the need to show the videos or show a lot of the pre-produced stuff that's the convention and for this week none of the networks or the cable networks really pulled away for any of it. And so all of these like really moving videos and pieces that they all put together for the convention were just played in their entirety. And it's basically every single night of this week has been a two hour infomercial for the Democratic Party and Joe Biden's campaign. And kudos to the organizers of the convention for pulling that off and especially pulling that off when they're all in different places there's five different studios a million different locations

some of it's live i mean it is very difficult you know what we can get into the specifics but like the roll call was maybe one of the most beautiful moments unexpectedly beautiful moments of the whole convention where usually in a roll call vote, you're just watching inside the convention hall where each state has to go one by one, all 50 states and nominate the candidate. And it is very boring and people go make snacks, go to the bathroom, pundits talk. And instead they went to all 50 states

and then all the territories and they had different kinds of people, a diverse group of people at each location nominating Joe Biden. And it was like a really wonderful moment that even broke through the cynicism on Twitter. I loved it. Can I admit something?

I missed large portions of the roll call. Oh, man. I know. I had a good reason, which is Kyla goes to bed between 7, 7.30 generally, or the next day can be an absolute disaster. And the first night we kept her up because she has been watching when Michelle Obama reads books on PBS.

That is a thing. And she calls her Mama's Boss because how they work for FLOTUS. So we let her stay up to watch Michelle Obama. But we put her to bed during the roll But we put her to bed during the roll. I put her to bed during the roll call. But I have to say, when I left, the group thread was like, oh my God, this is going to be the worst thing in the world. I left in the bees, teeth brushing, book reading, negotiating bed.

We were in Ohio when I came back. And you guys were all like, this is the best thing in the world. People are crying. And I was like, this is the best thing in the world. People are crying. And I was like, what did it impress me still? And I made it back in time to see the guy, the masked guy in Rhode Island holding the plate of calamari, which was unbelievable. I think one of the reasons it worked so well is because all of us have been stuck home for six months. And like, I felt the same way when it started i was like oh boy 50 states i don't know about this but i think what came over most people is like we for the first

time in a long time got to see what america looks like and why we love it it's like very simple just like it was joyful and when at a time when not much of the news we see is joyful in any way, you know, for good reason. We're living in the middle of a pandemic in Trump's presidency. But I thought it was great. And it's interesting, sort of, when it's, I thought the weakest time of the whole convention was basically Monday, almost up until Bernie and Michelle spoke. There were some good parts, but a lot of it was traditional speeches from elected officials. And they were giving the speeches as if they were at a convention. And for some, you know, it was just felt a little slow to me, mainly because I don't think the speeches were all that strong. But then starting with Bernie

and the rest of Monday night and then Tuesday Wednesday I thought even the pre-prime time stuff was they had very moving videos I thought like it it helped convey empathy for struggling Americans uh you know it conveyed the message that we need to take care of each other it credentialed Joe Biden's character it laid out the states and stakes in the urgency so I thought it worked very very well and I thought it worked very, very well. And I thought it was very emotional at times, too. All right. So one of the first major speakers of the week was Senator Bernie Sanders, who spoke from Vermont on Monday night. In his remarks, Bernie told his supporters that, quote, all the progress we have made will be in jeopardy if Donald Trump

is reelected. He made a strong case for Biden's policies on everything from the minimum wage to paid family leave to climate change. And he ended the speech on this note. The future of our democracy is at stake. The future of our economy is at stake. The future of our planet is at stake. We must come together, defeat Donald Trump, and elect Joe Biden and Kamala Harris as our next president and vice president. My friends, the price of failure is just too great to imagine. Dan, what'd you think of Bernie's speech? The context of Bernie's speech is fascinating to me, which is if you think back to that last debate between Sanders and Biden, which is one of the last things that happened when life was, this was right as life was becoming abnormal because they were socially distanced in that CNN studio, I think, during the debate. And it was pretty, it was relatively heated, that debate, on substantive, but heated. And it was pretty it was relatively heated, that debate on substantive, but heated. And then you flash forward to think that Bernie Sanders is giving a speech to the convention and there is no drama about the unity of the party.

And so I think what makes Bernie Sanders speech so interesting is everything that happened between when he got out of the race and now and that he and he and Biden together have done so much to unify the party. So I think that's the first part. The second part is whenever you look at these speeches, we're all hearing them, but we're not all the specific target audience of those speeches. And so Bernie Sanders was speaking directly to it. It's a small percentage, but the some number of voters of his who are motivated and impassioned by Bernie Sanders's agenda and message, who may be skeptical about whether they're going to vote for Biden, and he was raising the stakes for them in a way that was very, very powerful. And it's a reminder that Bernie Sanders is a great political speaker. He makes a strong, clear, moral argument without equivocation whenever he speaks. And it works whether there's a huge audience of people at a

rally in Phoenix or Iowa City, or in a empty room with a lot of firewood, as happened here. Yeah, I mean, look, Bernie is one of the best messengers in the party, bar none, when it comes to talking about economic issues and embracing the good version of economic populism. He is passionate about these issues in a way that is incredibly authentic. He did a fantastic job here spelling out Biden's progressive policies and vouching for them.

Said that Joe Biden would make it easier for workers to join unions, 12 weeks of paid family leave, universal pre-K, affordable childcare, 100% clean electricity over the next 15 years. workers to join unions, 12 weeks of paid family leave, universal pre-K, affordable child care, 100% clean electricity over the next 15 years. He would end private prisons and detention centers and cash bail and the school to prison pipeline. I mean, just the idea that Bernie Sanders stood up there and said that Joe Biden would do all these things is incredibly valuable for the Biden campaign and incredibly good of Bernie Sanders to do. I think what struck me the most is his repeated references and warnings

that Donald Trump is leading us down the path of authoritarianism. Now, Bernie Sanders has said that many times before. It was part of some of his major speeches during the primary. But what struck me as I've been watching this whole week, and we're going to talk about this with Obama's speech as well, from the far left of the party, Bernie Sanders, to the more establishment part of the party, Barack Obama, to some of our new Republican friends who are voting for Joe Biden, John Kasich, Colin Powell, there is a warning across ideological lines that democracy is at stake in this election and that something very dark could happen if Donald Trump wins a second term. And the unity around that warning from a broad array of people with vastly different ideological views should tell people something about how scary this could be. And basically, you know, we can talk about sort of like the unity in the party, but I think the unity is primarily around the fact that

at least from the perspective of a lot of these elected officials whether it's bernie or casick or obama it from from their perspective it's like hey you might be this might not be your dream candidate this this might not be all the policies that you want um but in this election um we face a very stark choice. And if we do not make the right choice, then we are headed down a very bad path. And so we're going to have to put all of our problems aside for right now and come together to defeat Donald Trump in November. And I think that message came through perhaps clearer than any other message of the entire week. came through perhaps clearer than any other message of the entire week.

I think that's exactly right. But I think there is an additional piece of that that also weaves through the other speeches we're going to discuss, which is it's not just defeat Donald Trump. It is that we're going to have to do a series of things to fix the American political system so we don't end up with Donald Trump again. Right. And that is where there has been really in the last several months, a merging of various wings of the party around a democracy reform agenda that recognizes that Donald Trump is the symptom, not the cause.

He is not an aberration. And that what we really is that Donald Trump is a particularly stupid authoritarian and waiting in the wings is a whole bunch of smarter, equally racist authoritarians in the Republican Party. And if we don't do things like get rid of the filibuster, pass the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, deal with the courts, we're going to have, we're going to, we're just going to do, repeat this whole process in some number of years. And Bernie Sanders' speech, I think sort of helped set the stage for that as

well. While we're talking about Bernie, you know, what's your take on is the party big enough for both John Kasich and Colin Powell and a video from Cindy McCain about John McCain and Joe Biden's friendship and Bernie Sanders and AOC, you know, who we should note spoke for a minute and nominated Bernie Sanders, which is tradition, by the way, that the runner up who has amassed a lot of delegates gets officially nominated and then releases the delegates to the official nominee afterwards. So that was part of just the process. I know there was a little confusion about that. Yeah, I think this is a pretty complicated set of things that's all happening here. complicated set of things that's all happening here. So is the party big enough for AOC, Bernie Sanders, and John Kasich? No, because John Kasich is not a Democrat. But to win the electoral college and become president of the United States, you need the votes of some people who are not members of the Democratic Party, large numbers of independents, and even some number of Republicans. That is what the demographic makeup and partisan split within the states to get to 270 demands, which is why as much, look, I do not like John Kasich.

I haven't liked him ever. I didn't like him when he hosted a terrible MSNBC cable show. I didn't like him when he was in the house. I really didn't like him as governor. I think he is at best a mediocre CNN commentator right now. I appreciate the fact that he hasn't followed the Republican Party off the cliff of Trump, but he served a purpose. He was speaking to a group of people. I'm not one of those people. I would rather do almost anything than watch John Kasich, Meg Whitman, Christy Todd Whitman, or any of these other people speak who spoke in that parade of mediocre Republicans. But they are speaking, they are trying to create, the Biden campaign was trying to create a permission structure for people who either voted for Donald Trump in 2016 or voted for, disapproved of Donald Trump and voted for a third party candidate because they couldn't bring themselves to vote for a Democrat. They were trying to create a permission structure for those people to vote for Biden. Now, that is not an excuse or a reason to not give more time to Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, one of the most talented

messengers in the party, because she also has a very important audience that needs to see her and can be motivated by her. And yeah, John Kasich clearly doesn't want to hear AOC speak. I wish he had kept that sentiment to himself as he was arriving at our party under invitation. But there are voters who are deciding between voting and not voting, who AOC would be a very powerful messenger with. We know that Joe Biden is, prior to this convention, at least underperforming with Latino voters, and particularly young Latino voters. And AOC could have been very influential with that. So we are a big tent party.

We should welcome efforts to appeal to people that do not agree with us, because that's what both winning elections and governing demands. But we also should not short shrift the base of our party. And I thought Heather McGee, our friend and one of the smartest people in politics, pointed out that in the speaking program, there has been an absence of progressives, and particularly young progressives of color. And that's the one place where I would be critical of the speaking agenda thus far, is there could be more of that. And yes, AOC was giving the Bernie Sanders nominating speech, but she could have done something else.

And I think that would have been good for the larger effort of electing Joe Biden. All right. Let's talk about Monday night's final speech from Michelle Obama, which was incredibly powerful and very direct to the point, both in the case she made for Joe Biden and the case she made against Donald Trump. Here is a clip of the latter. for Joe Biden and the case she made against Donald Trump. Here is a clip of the latter. Over the past four years, a lot of people have asked me, when others are going so low, does going high still really work? My answer, going high is the only thing that works. Because when we go low, when we use those same tactics of degrading and dehumanizing others, we just become part of the ugly noise that's drowning out everything else.

We degrade ourselves. We degrade the very causes for which we fight. But let's be clear. Going high does not mean putting on a smile and saying nice things when confronted by viciousness and cruelty. Going high means taking the harder path. It means scraping and clawing our way to that mountaintop. Going high means standing fierce against hatred while remembering that we are one nation under God. And if we want to survive, we've got to find a way to live together and work together across our differences. And going high means unlocking the shackles of lies and mistrust with the only thing that can truly set us free, the cold, hard truth. So let me be as honest and clear as I possibly can. Donald Trump is the wrong president for our country.

He has had more than enough time to prove that he can do the job, but he is clearly in over his head. He cannot meet this moment. He simply cannot be who we need him to be for us. It is what it is. Dan, why do you think Michelle's speech struck a chord with so many people? Because it wasn't a speech. speech struck a chord with so many people? Because it wasn't a speech. So much of, especially on that first night, the remarks were speeches delivered in a context and environment that did not feel right for speeches. People standing at empty podiums speaking. And Michelle

Obama, I think more than anyone else who has spoken in these first three nights, anyone else who has spoken in these first three nights delivered a masterclass in how you communicate in a Zoom world, which is she sat in front of a camera and had a conversation. She talked like a human to a human, not like a politician speaking to a room of people. And it was powerful and raw, and it had no jargon or cliches or applause lines, which is something that a lot of these speechwriters, I mean, you know this, speechwriters build speeches around applause. And they did that in a lot of these speeches, even when there would be no applause. And Michelle Obama just spoke. spoke is a friend of mine after the speech, she said, watching Michelle Obama was like, when your friend sits you down and tells you how to get out of that bad relationship you're in,

it was just like how your friend talks to you in a serious time. And I mean, it was absolutely riveting. The best speeches tell a simple story that you can remember after the speech is done. That was the case with the best speeches over the course of this week. And the people who wrote those speeches, including the people who gave those speeches, they did not write them, like you said, to get a bunch of applause. They did not write traditional applause lines. They did not write sort of the cheap, you know, one-off quotable lines. They had a conversation with the audience and told a story, right? That was, I think that was, we know what, we can remember what Bernie's speech was about. We can remember what Michelle Obama's speech was about. We can remember what Barack Obama's speech was about,

what Kamala Harris's speech was about. We can remember what Jill Biden's speech was about, what Kamala Harris's speech was about. We can remember what Joe Biden's speech was about. And it's hard to remember too many of the other ones because they were collections of lines and policies. And so I do think that hers especially rose to the moment. It was a very simple message. It was, I'm one of very few people who's seen the job of president up close. It is hard. Donald Trump is not up to it. Joe Biden is. That's it. That was the message from Michelle's speech. What made it more powerful is, as you said, she is not a politician. In fact, towards the end of the speech, now I understand that my message won't be heard by some people.

We live in a nation that is deeply divided, and I am a black woman speaking at the Democratic Convention, but enough of you know me by now. You know that I tell you exactly what I'm feeling. You know I hate politics, but you also know that I care about this nation. You know how much I care about all of our children. So if you take one thing from my words tonight, it this if you think things cannot possibly get worse trust me they can

which again we're getting to the obama speech but bernie authoritarianism michelle obama you know some of the republicans that spoke it is the message that sort of connects throughout the convention. But she has more authority and is more persuasive, particularly because people see her as someone who is outside politics, who doesn't really like politics. So they trust her more because people don't trust politics that much. And it's one of the reasons that she was so effective. The other thing she does so well is I think that she humanizes political issues in a way that most elected officials do not. And so as she talked about Trump and criticized Trump, it was all around the value of empathy, which is something he lacks. And in that way, she took on not just Donald Trump, but Trumpism. In that way, she took on not just Donald Trump, but Trumpism.

She talked about how, you know, people are in stores not wearing masks and, you know, references to people calling the police on black Americans. And so she sort of talked about how Donald Trump's behavior has bled into society and what that is doing to our children, which is a way to connect with other people who may not like politics very much, but don't like what's happening in the country right now. I will say one last thing about her speech. You know, people really focused on the it is what it is line because it sort of threw Trump's words back in his face in a very effective way. I thought the line that came before it, he's in over his head. Donald Trump is in over his head was actually the most effective line

of attack against Donald Trump. And I think you know why we have talked about this before on Bonds of America. We have seen a lot of research now from a lot of different places, Democratic candidates, pollsters, progressive groups, change research polls that we've conducted. of candidates, pollsters, progressive groups, change research polls that we've conducted. And it all points to the same thing, which is that the most persuasive argument for people who may have voted for Trump, but have since soured on him, the most persuasive argument is one that says Donald Trump is simply not effective, that he just cannot do the job. And the reason that that's effective is because it doesn't pass judgment on the voter for casting that ballot for Donald Trump in the first place. It says to them, you know what, you may have thought that even

though this guy was an asshole, he was going to shake up Washington. He just couldn't get the job done. He just didn't get it done. He's in over his head. He didn't fix the system like he said he would. And he has failed you. So try someone else. And it's complicated because, of course, the rest of us want to say to those people, you should have fucking known from the outset he was a racist, sexist, authoritarian fucking asshole. That's what we think. But again, to get the votes of those people, which are up for grabs now, those people are saying we are disappointed with him.

The best way to do so is say this guy that you thought was going to fix your life, was going to improve your life, improve the country. He's in over his head. He can't do it. And that was the message from Michelle Obama. And I think it is very effective to the not just to people who voted for Trump, but to those who are not paying super close attention to politics, haven't quite made up their mind and and yet are still considering voting in the first place.

All right, let's talk about Tuesday night, which I thought was the most emotional night of the convention so far. There was the roll call nomination that we talked about. There was an incredibly powerful video about health care, as well as a video from our friend Adi Barkin and his family. And then there was the video that introduced Dr. Jill Biden. Let's play a clip. The boys fell in love with Jill, too. I'm brushing my teeth one morning, and they came running in, and Bo and Hunt said, Dad, we think it's time we marry Jill. Swear to God.

That's what it reminded me five times. It wasn't just my heart that was on the line. I loved the voice so much. I had to be sure that it had to be forever. Now, I'm going to ask you one more time. Will you marry me? She goes like this. Okay.

Okay. Okay. She put us back together. How awesome was that video? I mean, one of the best biographical convention videos I've ever seen. It was just truly... Easily. I mean, it was just incredibly heartwarming and funny. I mean, just it was wonderful.

I mean, I loved every second of it. I mean, just to talk about like what it actually achieved. I mean, a lot of people don't know the full story of the Biden family and the full extent of the grief that the vice president and his family live with every day. I think a lot more people are familiar with, you know, the fact that Beau Biden passed away several years ago. But just sort of the, the origin story of when Biden was this very young, newly elected senator, and his, his wife and baby daughter were killed in a car accident that his two boys were in as well. And then I didn't even know when, and Jill mentioned it in her speech and in the video that she met them

all at 26 you know and at 26 years old she you know basically decides to marry this widower and his two boys um i think a lot of people didn't know that jill um not only was a teacher but remained a teacher while she was second lady, which we knew working with her in the White House that her White House job as second lady was part-time and that part-time she was teaching. At a community college in Virginia, yes. Yeah, which is an incredibly unusual arrangement,

but one that she insisted on and was a fantastic teacher by all of her students' accounts. So I think it told a wonderful story about Jill Biden, about the Biden family, and about her husband and sort of the qualities and the character that he has, which she continued to do in her speech, which she gave from her former classroom in Delaware. And here's a clip of that. You know, motherhood came to me in a way I never expected. I fell in love with a man and two little boys standing in the wreckage of unthinkable loss, mourning a wife and mother, a daughter and sister. and sister. I never imagined at the age of 26 I would be asking myself, how do you make a broken family whole? Still, Joe always told the boys, mommy sent Jill to us, and how could

I argue with her? We found that love holds a family together. Love makes us flexible and resilient. It allows us to become more than ourselves together. And though it can't protect us from the sorrows of life, it gives us refuge, a home. How do you make a broken family whole? How do you make a broken family whole? The same way you make a nation whole. With love and understanding and with small acts of kindness, with bravery, with unwavering faith, you show up for each other in big ways and small ones again and again. It's what so many of you are doing right now for your loved ones, for complete strangers, for your communities. A lovely speech.

Dan, what did you think that Jill's speech accomplished for the campaign and for Biden? I mean, in addition, obviously, to introducing her and testifying to who Joe Biden is and telling that story, what I thought, and it's in that speech, is she goes the step of connecting how she and Joe Biden and their family dealt with grief, how they used love to put their lives back together, both after the initial tragedy involving Vice President Biden's wife and daughter, and then now after Beau. They connected that to what the country is going through. Because right now, we are a broken country. 170,000 of our citizens have died in the last six months due in part to incompetence from our president, not to mention the absolute tearing of

the moral fabric from having an authoritarian racist as president. And we are going to have to heal. And Joe Biden's life story makes him perhaps one of the most qualified people on the planet to help heal the country. We've talked about this before, but when Joe Biden talked about healing the soul of the nation, when he got in this race well over a year ago, I was pretty skeptical that that was a message that would work. Now I was wrong about that because he won the nomination before we befell the strategy. So he was right and I was wrong. But like right now, the context of as someone with the empathy to heal a nation, that is what we need right now because we are a nation that is hurting.

I've always thought that maybe the most important question you should answer when you're running for president is why me? Why now? And I think she answered that question more succinctly and more powerfully in that speech than we've heard the entire campaign. And like you said, the reason we haven't heard it like that in the entire campaign is because we were in a country where 170,000 people had died of a horrible pandemic back in the primary. And now we are. But it was in that moment you can connect. This is like fate has led us here. And this is exactly why Joe Biden is the right person for this moment. And I do think sometimes like Joe Biden's message, the let's all be bipartisan part of the message gets confused with let's heal the nation, because I think those are two very different things. with let's heal the nation, because I think those are two very different things. And you and I would disagree that there's a lot of room for bipartisanship right now with the political

system the way it is. But I do believe that a president can help heal some of the divisions throughout the country. Not totally, but can sort of set an example that helps heal divisions. Probably doesn't fix the fucking asshole Republicans in Washington, but you can set an example that heals the country, or at least begins to heal the country, certainly more so than Donald Trump has done. There is a confusion, I think, around the huge emphasis on bipartisanship at this convention, within the speaking program and within telling a Biden story, like in the Cindy McCain video was about Joe Biden being somebody who reaches out to Republicans.

And I think we need to separate a desire for bipartisanship as a character trait and bipartisanship as a strategy to accomplish progressive goals. They are two different things. That's right. Joe Biden is someone who in his core believes you should reach out to the other side and try. Right. Joe Biden is someone who in his core believes you should reach out to the other side and try. And in that sense, he is where the country is. The American people want you to get caught trying to work with the other side. The question will be, what do you do when Mitch McConnell turns his back on you when the nation needs you?

How are you going to respond to that? There have been some hopeful signs among Joe Biden and some of the people around him that he will take aggressive action, ending the filibusters on the table. But it is the right thing politically, both in the campaign and in the White House, to talk about the fact that he wants to work the other side. And now what he's going to have to manage is the expectations that come with that, right? Is, wait, this is where we fell prey in 2009, which is Obama also ran on reaching out to their side. And then he did. And then the press and the American people, to some extent, judged him on his failure

to get Mitch McConnell to do things that did not benefit Mitch McConnell. And so if you're going to do it, you have to manage expectations. And you say this, like, I don't think Mitch McConnell will ever do anything to help anyone other than Mitch McConnell. I wrote a book with a section titled Bipartisanship is Dead. Yet I still think Joe Biden is doing the right thing in this convention about talking about his history of trying to work with Republicans and his intention to try to do so again. Let's talk about Kamala Harris, who gave the final address of the evening on Wednesday

night when she formally accepted the nomination for vice president. In her speech, she paid tribute to the women, especially black women, who helped pave the way for her historic candidacy. She introduced herself and shared her own story, particularly the profound influence her mother had on her life. The speech was lighter on direct hits on Trump, and she did focus on the positive case for herself and for Joe Biden. She ended her remarks with a stirring call to action. Let's hear it. In years from now, this moment will have passed.

And our children and our grandchildren will look in our eyes and they're going to ask us, where were you when the stakes were so high? They will ask us, what was it like? And we will tell them. We will tell them not just how we felt. We will tell them what we did. Dan, what do you think of Kamala's speech? I don't think any person in the history of modern American politics has ever been given a task as difficult as the one she had last night.

To give that speech in that empty room with that level of expectation, with that much pressure on her and to deliver that way was a tremendous accomplishment. It is a fundamentally different task. with that much pressure on her and to deliver that way was a tremendous accomplishment. It is a fundamentally different task. Some of those pieces we've talked about were recorded in advance, where if you mess up, you just start over again. So Barack Obama's speech, which we'll discuss, Barack Obama's one, there's only a small handful of people who have ever had to deliver a high-stakes speech in an empty room before. And those are presidents who are giving nationally televised addresses. So Obama has a lot of reps doing what he did from all of the high-stakes speech in an empty room before. And those are presidents who are giving nationally televised addresses. So Obama has a lot of reps doing what he did from all of the speeches he

gave in the Oval Office or in the East Room after big events. For any other politician, this is something they've never been able to do. And I thought her delivery was incredible, the parts about her story. And the part you just played is, I think, where Kamala Harris is at her best, which is where she is motivating people to action. Because it ties to the activism of her parents, her history, and connects it to what is happening right now in America within the Democratic Party. And so I was incredibly impressed and very motivated by the speech. I was fired up for Kamala Harris as vice president after this. I was too. I think that you're exactly right that her connecting the historic nature of her candidacy with both her life story, particularly what her mother meant to her,

and connecting that to all the women who came before, civil rights activists and women's suffrage activists who sort of, who made her candidacy possible, was beautiful and stirring and certainly the strongest part of the speech. Kamala Harris, there are some public figures who make every single written speech better with their delivery. There are other public figures who, speechwriters will tell you this, inevitably make every written speech worse. It's never the speechwriter's fault. That's what speechwriters will tell you.

We will not talk about those public figures now. But she is one of the public figures who makes every speech even better, even great, well-written speeches better with her delivery. She is comfortable and confident. She has an incredible amount of charisma. I mean, it's just, I'm continually impressed with Kamala Harris every time she delivers a speech. And like you said, the speech she had to deliver last night was the highest stakes kind of speech in the most unusual environment possible, particularly for someone who was just nominated to be vice president and now has to face a national stage. Usually you get weeks of prep and prompter prep and you get crowds and you learn how to ride the applause and you have your applause, all that kind of stuff.

And it wasn't like she could give sort of the Michelle Obama speech where she's just sitting on a couch and talking directly to camera. Like, I do think it was better to have her at a podium. She had to do that. She had to do that. But it makes the job all the harder to basically pretend you're speaking to an audience that you can't see. And I think she absolutely, I think she absolutely nailed it. So it was, and look, we're talking about sort of the mechanics of the speech and how it went,

but it was, I was emotional just watching it, thinking about the history of that moment and what it meant that, you know, especially with what we had seen. I mean, there is this arc where Barack Obama, the first black president, you know, chooses Joe Biden to be his vice president, this older white guy. And then years later, he chooses, as he's running for president, the first black woman on a major ticket. And she

gives that speech right after Barack Obama on the Wednesday night of the convention. And I think it was a moment. it was a moment. It was a moment. There was one part of that speech that I thought was incredibly historic and I think a little under-discussed, at least amongst sort of mainstream political commentaries. Here you have a black woman accepting the nomination to be vice president of the United States,

saying the names of Breonna Taylor and George Floyd and others who were murdered by the police was just such a powerful thing to do. And I think it really, it spoke to the moment we're in and how we're responding to it, I think in a very powerful way. Yeah, for sure. All right, let's end on Barack Obama's speech because I suspect we both have a lot to say about it.

All right, let's end on Barack Obama's speech because I suspect we both have a lot to say about it. The former president spoke at the Museum of the American Revolution in Philadelphia in front of a display about the Constitution and delivered an urgent and at times emotional plea for people to treat this election as a referendum on the future of democracy itself. Here's a clip. This president and those in power, those who benefit from keeping things the way they are, they are counting on your cynicism. They know they can't win you over with their policies. So they're hoping to make it as hard as possible for you to vote and to convince you that your vote does not matter. That is how they win.

That is how they get to keep making decisions that affect your life and the lives of the people you love. That's how the economy will keep getting skewed to the wealthy and well-connected. How our health systems will let more people fall through the cracks. That's how a democracy withers. until it's no democracy at all. And we cannot let that happen. Do not let them take away your power. Do not let them take away your democracy.

Make a plan right now for how you are going to get involved and vote. Do it as early as you can and tell your family and friends how they can vote too. Do what Americans have done for over two centuries when faced with even tougher times than this. All those quiet heroes who found the courage to keep marshy keep pushing in the face of hardship and injustice so i will stipulate here that you and i both have uh saw drafts of of that speech before he delivered it um and the reason I want to stipulate that is because still, even though I read it many times, I was surprisingly moved by his delivery, which was, I think I have rarely seen him deliver a speech like that with that much emotion towards the end of that speech when it almost seemed like

he was fighting back tears. That's right. I mean, there is this really stupid Washington narrative perpetuated by the New York Times as recently as, I don't know, fucking yesterday that Obama has some sort of aloof Vulcan. I tried so hard not to yell about that for 24 hours. That's what, give me a platform with a couple of million listeners and I'll take my shot. And that he's like this aloof Vulcan who feels no emotion. And, you know, he is the embodiment of hope and, you know, enjoy in a lot of ways. And when he speaks and he's funny and all of that. But there aren't only so many times in the thousands of times that you and I have seen him speak where you've seen him actually have to, I think, fight back choking up. And it is in times of great tragedy. I think most

notably and famously after the death of his grandmother right before the 2008 election, the death of his grandmother right before the 2008 election, after Sandy Hook talking about his daughters. But that's it. As people who know him, to hear him have that level of emotion about what is happening to his country is just so powerful and bespeaks the incredible stakes of this election because that was ultimately his task here, right? He had two tasks, I guess. One was a first-person testimonial about who Joe Biden is and the kind of president he would be. And the other one was to raise the stakes for the election, to speak to people who are not deciding between Obama and Trump, but primarily people who are deciding between voting and not voting about why it matters. And the through line of all of Obama's speeches over

the years is that it's not about him. It's not about Joe Biden. It's not about Trump. It's about you. You, the voter, control what happens next. And he's telling you, it is all on the fucking line right now. And you decide what is going to happen in this country. I know that that was powerful and riveting and inspiring and scary all at the same time. There are two main reactions to the speech that I sort of want to talk about as a way to discuss what he was thinking, which, you know, I'm not an expert on much in politics here, but I usually know what Barack Obama is, what's on his mind. So the first, the most shallow reaction to the speech from many reporters is he's never taken on Trump like this. He's finally let loose on Trump. So I just want to read a lead from The New York Times.

Former President Barack Obama reentered the national political debate with a scathing indictment of President Trump, assailing his successor as a threat to our democracy, and a dramatic break from the normal deference former presidents usually show to incumbents. Mr. Obama ended a long period of public reticence with a lacerating assessment of Mr. Trump. Dan, that lead was from September 7th, 2018. Dan, that lead was from September 7th, 2018. We seem to not be able to remember just two years ago during the midterms when he consistently called Donald Trump a threat to our democracy. So we'll put that aside. I mean, in fairness, New York Times right now, I would fail a quiz about what happened on Tuesday.

So two years does seem like a long time ago. It is also funny. I mean, he did, of course, directly mention Donald Trump. He said his name. I do think it was probably even more direct than he was in 2018. So I will give people that. But again, even the way, it's funny that just describing reality, we've talked about this before, but just describing reality, the way everything is right now is seen as some gigantic hit on the person in the Oval Office, right?

Like the way he coached it, I never expected that my successor would embrace my vision or continue my policies. I did hope for the sake of the country that Trump might show some interest in taking the job seriously, but he never did. Donald Trump hasn't grown into the job because he can't. Again, that sort of mirrors Michelle's line that he is in over his head, right? That it is not any personal vendetta against Donald Trump. Barack Obama did not leave office thinking that Donald Trump would embrace all of his policies, would keep all the policies. He didn't expect that. But he hoped that maybe the seriousness of the job would weigh on him.

And it did not. If that is taken as a massive frontal assault, I guess. Sure. And then, of course, he went through this list. So there are certain principles that shouldn't be Democrat or Republican, but American, like not using the military against peaceful protesters, like not calling the press the enemy, that a working government depends on the belief in facts and science and logic. And he said that Trump doesn't believe in those principles. Again, I haven't seen anyone argue otherwise. Those are all he did. He used the military against peaceful protesters. We all saw it.

So that was sort of one set of reactions about Obama taking on Trump. But I think there was another set of reactions from a lot more people that I do think is worth talking about, which was a lot of people said that Obama was unusually dark and had lost his optimism. And Jonathan Chait, who wrote a book, wrote a book about Obama and knows, you know, knows how Obama thinks pretty well, also said that it's the first time he has seen Obama express fear. And I do think it's fair to say that the speech felt different and more urgent. But I don't think I guess I would say that Obama's message and his central belief about politics in America haven't changed since 2004. And it goes to precisely what you said about the fact that it's not about he doesn't believe that democracy is about him or Donald Trump or Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or any one politician.

But it is about us and what we can do. And the way that we knew that is because the whole purpose of the speech, as he said up top, was to speak to those people who were cynical and speak to the people who have lost faith in the system. And he particularly said, you know, I can totally understand if you're a young person and you're looking around at politics and you're saying, what's the point? But then I think the part where he got emotional was the key to the whole speech. He gets emotional where he tells the story about a civil rights leader who once told him that the day Obama was born was the day he stepped into a jail cell for the first time. And Obama said, quote, whatever our backgrounds were all the children of Americans who fought the good fight, black Americans chained and whipped and hanged,

spit on for trying to sit at lunch counters, beaten for trying to vote. If anyone had a right to believe that this democracy did not work and could not work, it was those Americans. And yet, instead of giving up, they joined together and said,

somehow, some way, we are going to make this work. We are going to bring those words in our founding documents to life. Throughout Obama's entire life, the struggle for civil rights has always been central to the story he tells about America. And it's not just because it made his presidency possible. It's because it illustrates to him how Black Americans who've been enslaved and subjugated and excluded from democracy in every way possible are the very same Americans who've shown the most faith in the power of democracy to change the country for the better. And if they didn't give in to cynicism throughout all those decades, then neither should you.

And that's where he became emotional because, and that's where he sort of has, that's where he has hope. That's where his hope comes from, right? That like, yes, everything is on the line. Yes, this is very scary, but all of you actually have the power to do something about it. And that is amazing. That is amazing that you have agency, right? And so I took that part as pretty hopeful that we can do something about this.

A thousand Americans are dying every single day. Most people are out of work. The president is basically doing Nixon pantomime from the White House with racist tropes about suburbs. This is serious fucking shit, you're exactly right. He continues to believe that the solution to the problems is bottom up, not top down. And he's saying to you, the voter, this is your choice. You have the power to do it. I believe you can do it and you will do it, but it is your choice. it, but it is your choice. And I think it is a, it felt like I said this last night, it felt different than any speech I've ever seen Obama give. Not because he is different, but because he was speaking to the moment in a way that was more powerful and starker than ever before. And context is everything here. Optimism or pessimism, I think are the wrong way to think about his tone and his beliefs because optimism and pessimism both involve predictions about what might ultimately happen.

Right. And the question Obama wants us to ask is not what might happen, but what are we going to do about it? And in that way, it's not. I mean, he said, look, he said that in the 2004 convention speech. Right. He was like, I'm not talking about blind optimism here. I'm talking about something more substantial. The hope of slaves sitting around campfires singing freedom songs. in 2004 at the time. But that idea of slaves singing freedom songs when they were enslaved, when people were enslaved and believing that they could have a better life and then fighting for that, that is hope. And that's not like, you know, it's so funny because I saw so many people on Twitter being like, does Obama know something that we don't? Is he worried? It's like, it's not about what he knows that's going to happen. It's that he knows that if we don't vote, that if we sit out, that if we don't do enough,

then yes, something bad will happen. Something bad is happening, right? It's like- Yeah, yeah, we're already in it. We're fucking living it. I do, like, obviously we love Obama. So much of what we have in our lives is because Obama hired us at one point and so

take that stipulation we have i mean you have written many many of the words have ever come out of his mouth we have you know we have watched and participated in most of the speech big speeches he's given over the last decade but when i watch some of the commentary on this i'm like do you people listen to what he actually fucking says? You know, the people last night who were like, I thought Barack Obama said the arc of the moral universe bent towards justice.

Listen to the words he said, which is that we have a responsibility to bend it. Like that, that is everyone made fun of. We are the ones we've been waiting for. That's what he was fucking talking about. That's that was back in 2008. I mean, and I'm and i'm you know he said specifically we've talked about this a million times democracy is not transactional it is not about you give me your vote and i will fix everything

and i do think that you know part of the issue when obama was elected in 2008 is a lot of people thought we have we have elected this charismatic guy who's wonderful and gives good speech, inspiring, whatever, and he's going to fix everything. 2008's over. We can go home. Barack Obama's going to take care of everything. And it's not the system that we have set up, right? We don't elect a king. We don't even have a parliamentary system. We have a fucking Congress. We have state houses everywhere. We have a very complex system of democracy, a republic that requires citizens to be active every single day. It is. And that is going to be true if, God forbid, Donald Trump wins another term. And it's going to be true if Joe Biden wins a term as well. It's not like Joe Biden wins. It's not over.

It is not. We can't count on Joe Biden to go fix everything. We have to keep this up. And that is Obama's central message. It has always been his central message in 2004. The reality has changed. These are darker times, but the central message is the same. Citizenship is a full-time job. That's it.

That is his point. That's it. And if we don't do our job this time in this context we're in big fucking trouble that's what this feature is about vote save america.com adopts north carolina uh yeah in arizona um all right final question and then we can go um joe biden formally accepts his nomination tonight the final night of the convention with the keynote address to again like kamala harris a mostly empty room. What piece of business or pieces of business does Biden still have to get done?

Joe Biden's task is to use this huge platform he has to explain the American people why he can fix what Donald Trump has wrought. People, we have said this before, Joe Biden has high name ID, but he is not deeply known, particularly among the voters who will decide this election. As we know, periodic or calcinedred voters pay less attention to politics, certainly than almost everyone. And so he has to, even though he has been on the national stage for a long time, he has to introduce himself to the country. And that includes some of the substance of his agenda, what he will do. But it also includes, and this is what was so important about Joe Biden's speech and

what Barack Obama, Michelle Obama, and everyone else said about Joe Biden is, the person and the policy are completely interconnected because voters have heard politicians for decades talk about their policy plans. They need to know that they are the kind of person who will execute on them. states talk about their policy plans. They need to know that they are the kind of person who will execute on them. And so it is the intersection of Joe Biden's personal story, his character, his values, and then what he will do when he is elected. And look, that's a tough piece of business. I do think, you know, if you ask people who didn't know much about Joe Biden before the convention, you're right that they want to know who he is and what he's going to do.

Who he is, I think, has been answered very effectively by his family through a lot of these videos, through a lot of these testimonials from people who know him. So I do think people have a lot more knowledge right now about who Joe Biden is and what values drive him. I think that has been accomplished by this convention. What he's going to do hasn't been as accomplished just yet. I think Bernie Sanders did some of that work. I think on Wednesday night, there were, you know, Wednesday night sort of talked about the stakes in terms of different issues. And I think the convention did a great job of laying out those

issues and talking about what Biden wanted to do. But I think Biden's big piece of business is talking about his vision and what he's going to do as president. And like you said, how he's going to get that done. And I will say the reason I think that's a tough job is because it is very easy for that to sound pedestrian and workmanlike in a speech. And the trick of a speech is to sort of lift that up. But you should know that when he is talking about his agenda, again, not really for us, not really for the performance judges. It's for people out there who are like, I'm pretty sure I want to vote for Joe Biden, but I really just want to know what specifically he's going to do to make my life different and

how we're going to get there. And he does need to do that tonight. So I mean, this is where the absence of applause makes it so much harder. Because in a normal speech, you say, and we're going to raise the minimum wage to $15 and everyone cheers and it seems great. When you say that, just like there's always a danger of a laundry list doing that in an empty room. So like this is a very, I mean, this is a very, very challenging environment to do this in. And it matters.

You know, this will be the biggest audience he will have for a speech this entire campaign. So it's his best chance to make his unfiltered case to the voter about why he is the right person to be president and Donald Trump is not. That's right. All right, when we come back, we'll have Dan's interview with Elizabeth Warren.

Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you for coming back on Pod Save America. It's always great to talk to you. And it's always good to be with the pod. So I want to start with your speech last night. Obviously, when you imagine the convention speech you would be giving at the 2020 convention, it probably involved people. How did you go about preparing to give a speech under these very unusual circumstances? So actually the part for me was not as much about the people. I mean, I mean, look, cause you've just readjusted your brain. So that's not what this is going to be. We're going to find another way to talk to a lot of folks. I only had five minutes. So sure. I'm just going to describe everything that, you know, I think we ought to be working on and why I think we ought to be hopeful in the places, you know, why we have to

to get rid of Donald Trump. So it was a how to make a coherent argument to get in key pieces and to be able to make it personal, because that is what this is about. This election is about making the opportunity. And I really wanted to tell the story of what so many parents are going through right now and have gone through before the pandemic hit and now that the pandemic has hit. I feel like we need to have a federal government that is on the side of human beings, that's on the side of folks out here

who are just working so hard to keep it together day to day. So that's what I wanted to be able to do and do all that in five minutes. Never easy. You know, obviously your audience was everyone tuning in, but did you have a particular segment of the electorate that you were trying to persuade or motivate when you were giving the speech, sort of a target audience, if you will? Yes. And it's two separate segments that I really cared about. One segment is mamas, mamas and daddies, okay? Folks with children who are struggling through this to say, I hear you, I see you. Joe Biden hears you and sees you. Kamala Harris hears you and sees you. And we need you in this fight. This fight matters in a very personal way to you.

But the second half is all the people who don't have kids. All the people who see their kids are grown or they don't yet have kids, they never thought about kids, they don't like kids. they never thought about kids, they don't like kids. The reason I wanted to reach them is that's what the argument I wanted to make was about. Child care is not like some favor that we should be doing for mamas and daddies who are struggling. Child care is how we keep our economy going. And we invest in roads and bridges and power and communications, all so that this economy can go forward, all so that people have an opportunity to get out and take on a job and make their families financially secure. But we still build an economy as if there is one full-time stay-at-home parent.

And that's just not reality in the 21st century. So I really feel like it's both of those. And it's a layer into that. I've heard so many moms and dads who are so worried about their kids. School-age kids, can schools open safely? Little babies. On the campaign trail, I heard about child care in my town halls. I heard about it in the selfie lines, not from the press, but I heard about it from the people who were there. And I just think that's why it's important to speak to them directly. What's your level of optimism that a Biden administration could make addressing the child care crisis in this country a centerpiece of their economic agenda?

Wow. Notice your verb, that they could do it. Are you kidding? I think the moment is ripe. I mean, I just, so many people who are at home with school-aged children, with little babies, who are at home with school-aged children, with little babies, and mamas trying to hold down a job, two mamas are trying to hold down jobs, both parents are trying to do this, have suddenly realized, damn, this system just doesn't work. I mean, talk about it. It is time to declare broken big time. This is it. And that means people are more ready. You know, actually, I hadn't thought about this, Dan, but did you ever think about part of how we got the CFPB, the consumer agency with President Obama? Enough people have been cheated. And enough people have looked around and said, I don't like this anymore. We're, we got to make change here.

So this is a moment. We get a Democratic Congress. It's going to take both, Democratic House, Democratic Senate, and Joe Biden and Kamala Harris in the White House. Boy, this could happen. You know, by bringing up the CFPB, you lead into what's for my next question is how, like, you know, whether it was, and Joe Biden has talked about this. And I imagine informed somewhat by the many conversations you guys have reported about policy is he wants an FDR style presidency to respond to this crisis. The Affordable Care Act, the CFPB, Dodd-Frank was a response to the 2008 financial crisis.

How do you think the combination of crises we're facing right now between the pandemic, the large national debate we've been having about structural racism, the effects of climate change that we're feeling in California, what happened in Iowa last week with derecho? How does all that combine to create an environment for big, bold, progressive action with a political system and, to some sense, a Democratic Senate that has in the past included some incrementalism as the way in which it approached these issues? as the way in which it approached these issues?

So I think like anything, it's the moment. We couldn't have passed the CFPB the year before the 2008-2009 crash. We just couldn't have. There wasn't enough external pressure, and there wasn't enough internal attention, notwithstanding the fact that George W. Bush was president and so on. But I'm just saying, the moment wasn't there. And I'll tell you the truth.

The moment wouldn't have been there two years later. It was the moment when people were feeling in a very tangible way. In other words, the outside was ready, but also inside attention and pressure on this because President Obama, God bless him and his team, were trying to rescue a broken economy and farsighted enough to say, let's put in place the pieces to make sure this doesn't happen again in three years and again three years after that and again in three years after that. And so it was that moment it was it you know we talk about the overton window that you shift what is possible but this is a little different i don't i don't know that it has a name should i i don't know can i call it you know let's do it let's let's

let's uh let's get our own name going for this but point is, the moment when there's enough outside pressure and when there's enough inside attention. You know, and here's the other part. Part of when I talk about what creates the right moment, look how many young people are engaged now. I am so inspired by young people because they're so policy oriented. You know, Iona Presley always teaches, teases me and says, policy is your love language. You know that this is, but it is. And, and we've got so many young people now who care about the details. the details. They care about what a police reform bill looks like. They care about what change. And they are creating this moment where we can make big change. Enacting a policy agenda, right? The discussion about how we fix

the country is an intersection of what and how. Yep. Right. And you need both. That's right. And the what is often to a lot of people, somewhat evident. It's the how that gets tangled up. To do any of the things you're talking about, we cannot depend on eight to nine of Mitch McConnell's friends to agree. How optimistic are you that you'll be able to convince your Senate colleagues to join you in eliminating the filibuster if we see what we expect, which is Republican obstruction? So when we've got a Democratic majority in the Senate, I think when Mitch McConnell starts to

block our first actions, which I think are going to be very popular actions, important things to get done, I think as soon as that happens, we're going to have a lot of senators who are going to say, we need to get rid of the filibuster. And notice, it's already happening. I mean, having President Obama come out and say, we just cannot be, cannot be, the Senate of a dozen years ago doesn't exist anymore. We cannot have filibuster block everything that Joe Biden and Kamala Harris want to get done. Having President Obama say that was very important. And I'm so glad he did that. And I think that was, it helped a lot of other senators. I mean, I'm, you know, we already had a cabal that was really into this, but I think it helped a lot of other senators shift over and say, yeah, we got to be realistic because look, people are not going to get out there and fight

the next 75 days to elect someone only to have nothing change. They're in this fight, sure, because they don't like Donald Trump. They're in this fight because they do like Joe and Kamala, but they're in this fight for change. And that's what we've got to do. And, you know, look, I'll put the question back to you. You've been vocal on filibuster, you and the pod guys, you know, so that's inside, outside. That's what it's going to take. I'm meeting with folks on the inside. I'll keep talking about it publicly, but you keep talking about it too. Because this is like one of those key pieces to make real change. And if you're not willing to get rid of the filibuster,

then you just, you're not there on change. Well, I promise you that our to-do list is help get people to defeat Donald Trump and then help get people to defeat the filibuster in that order. Yep. Yep. And I'm going to, I want to pull you in at some point. It's all the economic things we talk about, but it's also dealing with corruption. Yep. Yep. And I'm going to, I want to pull you in at some point. It's all the economic things we talk about, but it's also dealing with corruption. Yep. We've just got to, Barack Obama moved presidential candidates in the right direction on funding, put in some restraints on lobbyists, but the world around, you know,

it's the kudzu has been growing and we've really got to come in and hack it back. I hope the gardening metaphor appeals to you there. Okay, good. Yes. I'm not sure I know entirely what kudzu is, but I use context clues to figure it out. It eats up everything. It seemed bad. Yes. That's right. If you don't attend to it, it actually will take down a house. There are examples of this. Okay.

This seems like a very well done metaphor. Yes, it does. Perfect to describe lobbying. Yes. Is there anything that you are particularly looking to hear for Joe Biden as he prepares to address the convention tonight? So my sense of it is two things. So, my sense of it is two things. First, Joe will be the human being that we have missed for the last three and a half

years now. Joe Biden is a decent man who's in public service to serve the public, not to flatter himself, enrich his family and his friends, and spend all his time worrying about his ratings and his new version of his reality TV show. But I think this matters. I mean, I'm not just here to throw insults at Donald Trump, although I'd be glad to. I could do that.

No, but I really mean it as I think about this in leadership. It's not just leadership is not just getting every decision right. And people look at you and say, I like that decision. I like that. It's feeling like people care about you and that all the decisions you don't understand came from, are coming from the right place. You have confidence. Can I tell you a quick story? Actually, I'll tell you a story around this.

My grandmother was, she was born in the late 1800s and my mother was born, as they used to call it, very late in life to her. I was born very late in life to my mother. So my grandmother was really old. And when she was in her 90s,. I was born very late in life to my mother. So my grandmother is really old. And when she was in her 90s, when I was a little girl, she used to talk about the Great Depression. And she said she loved Franklin Roosevelt. And I kind of think, I'm not sure they were very political ever before then. She never talked about it much after that, but she loved Franklin Roosevelt. And I can remember asking her why. And she said, well, she said, Franklin Roosevelt made it safe to put money in banks. Pause. And I'm sure he did a lot of other good stuff too. And I only say that by way

of saying, if you do things, you want to know that somebody's fighting on your side. So I think that's number one for Joe Biden. And then number two, that he really does have plans to do things that it's not going to all be, yes, I have a good heart, but I'm going to just stand by. No, it's yes, I have a good heart and I'm going to use that good heart and my brain and all of my energy and Kamala and all of my friends to make the changes we so desperately need to make. So good heart and a determination that's concrete. Here are changes we're going to make. You've been helping lead the fight to deal with the politicization of the Postal Service. You wrote a letter calling for an investigation from the inspector general.

What do you hope to learn from that investigation? Is there any chance that we would get findings by the election? So, you know, I'm a huge fan of inspectors general. I was actually long before Barack Obama came along. And I was really glad that I had sent a letter to the IG saying, whoa, hold on here just a minute. This guy owns stock in companies that compete with the post office. He's doing business with the post office. This looks like a bunch of conflicts of interest here to me. Will you do an investigation? And actually in a pretty timely way, the IG stepped up and said, yes. Now that hasn't stopped DeJoy. He's out there speculating in

Amazon stock evidently and all kinds of stuff. But partly it is the reminder to DeJoy. But partly it is the reminder to DeJoy. We're watching and there are things here that are illegal. So partly that's what I want. I just want the IG to stay on it. He will get an answer. But I also have questions for DeJoy tomorrow. You want to think about those? I do.

I would love to hear about those. Yes. So I don't get to ask questions because it's a house hearing. of Joy tomorrow. You want to think about those? I do. I would love to hear about those. Yes. So I don't get to ask questions because it's a House hearing. I kind of think Mitch McConnell's not going to do a hearing in the Senate. But look, we all know what Donald Trump has said. He has been spreading lies and conspiracy theories about mail-in voting during this pandemic because he doesn't want people to vote. He knows that if everybody votes, Donald Trump loses. So this is one of his voter suppression techniques is to keep people from voting. And he puts DeJoy in, I believe, to try to shut down the post office. So the question I want to ask him is has the president or have any

of his staff ever requested or suggested that de joy take any action uh based on trump's opposition to mail-in voting or to make it more difficult for people to vote by mail i want to I want to know what kind of conspiracy we have going on here. I want to know, you know, DeJoy had, what is it, 671 mail sorting machines removed by the end of September. They can sort over 20 million pieces of paper an hour. I don't want to just hear, oh, I'm not going to take out any more. I want to know, is he going to replace the mail sorting machines that he ordered the UPS to remove? Same kind of thing on overtime. I want to know if DeJoy is going to commit

to approve all the requests for overtime between now and the election. So that's just a few of them, but I got a lot of questions for this guy because I think there's a lot he needs to answer for. He's not only destroying or trying to destroy one of the Central American institutions, our post office, but he's also trying to destroy the upcoming election. And he needs to be held accountable for that. More importantly, he needs to be stopped. I'm curious about whether any of your Republican colleagues have expressed some concerns about this. Prior to this election, Republicans in many states benefited at a greater

rate than Democrats from vote by mail. And it's not, we tend to talk about the election and the ballots because that's what we focus on. But, you know, as you know, from all your constituents, there are veterans not getting their prescriptions, there are people not getting paychecks, not getting bills that are delayed. And obviously, the tendency of many of your, maybe all of your Republican colleagues in the Senate have been to sort of abide silently by Donald Trump's. But this seems like a pretty big bridge politically, even if we put aside the morality and legality of all of this, but politically to be on the side of delaying prescription drugs to veterans to steal an election seems bad. Any chance you

there's going to be bipartisan pressure put on Trump here? You know, my view on this is that the post office is very nonpartisan, right? And has been forever. Rural areas, both in states that have urban and rural and states that are almost entirely rural, they count on those post offices. As you said, people having prescriptions delivered, pension checks getting delivered on time. This is going to hurt, in my view, this is going to hurt Republicans as much as Democrats. But here's the thing. I appreciate your asking about do they say things quietly on the floor of the Senate or out in the hallway. To me, that's not what this is about.

This is about are you willing to stand up and say it out loud? You know, Trump told us what he is doing. He didn't say it behind closed doors. It wasn't leaked in the New York Times. Washington that was thinly sourced, he told us flat out that if people vote by mail, he is going to lose and the Republicans are going to lose. And where were all those Republican senators and representatives who stood up and said, wait, you have now gone too far. We cannot shut down the post office in order not to have ballots counted and in order for people to feel like there's no point in casting a ballot. No, they stood silently by and to me, that's enabling Donald Trump and I'm cutting no slack for any of them on this. And this is why I think we need to push so hard back 75 days. We not only have to keep up why we've got to get everybody turned out to vote, but we've got to keep up the pressure on access to that vote. And that includes keeping up the pressure on the post office. Well, Senator Elizabeth Warren, that seems as good a place to end as any. Thank you so much for being here. It is always wonderful to talk to you. And we would love to talk to you many, many times between now and election day. Thank you so much. So let's do it. Thanks so much,

Dan. It's always good to talk to you. 75 days, 75 days. Thanks to Elizabeth Warren for joining us today. We'll see you tonight for the big pre-show. Go to cricket.com slash convention. We'll see you there. And we will see you guys again tomorrow for our Friday bonus pod with the two of us, Ann Lovett and Tommy.

You cannot get rid of us. We are everywhere. We're here. We're here. And of course, there's another group thread tonight too. Group thread. There's a pod on Monday, pod next Thursday, maybe some group threads next week. A rid of us. We are everywhere. We're here. We're here. And of course, there's another group thread tonight, too. Group thread. There's a pod on Monday, pod next Thursday, maybe some group thread next week. A lot of content.

You are stuck with us, people. You can't leave your house and we are coming to you. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our associate producer is Jordan Waller. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is our sound engineer.

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