Pod Save America - “The Donor Relief Act of 2017.”

Episode Date: November 20, 2017

Republicans jam the second most unpopular piece of legislation in history through the House, Doug Jones could transform Washington with a victory over Roy Moore, and Trump’s FCC votes to help Trump-friendly media consolidate power. Senator Claire McCaskill joins Jon, Jon, and Tommy to talk bout the tax bill, her Senate race, Al Franken, and Bill Clinton. Then DeRay joins to talk about student loan penalties.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Levitt. I'm Tommy Vitor. On the pod today, we just spoke with the senior senator from the state of Missouri, Claire McCaskill. We asked her about tax cuts, Al Franken, her race in 2018, all kinds of good stuff. So you'll want to check that out. And a little later, we're going to be talking to the host of Pod Save the People, DeRay McKesson. franken uh her race in 2018 all kinds of good stuff so you'll want to check that out and a little later we're going to be talking to the host of pod save the people duray mckesson love it how

was friday's show friday's show was great john hannah and i listened to it yesterday in the car we laughed i haven't caught up yet we had a great episode with langston kerman cristella alonso and van jones we talked about the reckoning over sexual harassment. We played a, I felt, very politically on-message game about tax reform. I noticed that. And it was actually one of my favorite episodes to record. We were going to listen to that show on the way to Orange County yesterday to see our friend Nikki Buffa. Happy birthday, Nikki.

Happy birthday, Buffa. But then you came with us in the car, Lovin'. We thought that was weird. Emily and I thought that was weird to listen to the show with you in the car, Love It, and we thought that was weird. Emily and I thought that was weird to listen to the show with you in the car, but you said... I love the sound of my own voice, so it would have been fine,

but sadly that didn't matter because Zarina Emily Black Favreau controls the audio. That's her car. A lot of Taylor Swift on the way down to Orange County. Taylor Swift is the official song of... You get it. Cool.

Yeah, it's great. Taylor Swift on the way down to Orange County. Taylor Swift is the official song of... You get it. Cool. Yeah, it's great. Taylor Swift on the way down to Orange County with all the doodles. Doesn't get whiter than that. There and back. There and back. You are... Tommy, how was Friday's Pod Save the World? On its new day.

Where am I? It was Friday, right? Yeah. I talked to a guy named Rob Malley. We talked all about the Middle East, what the hell was happening in Lebanon. He was just there. So it was really cool to hear him. He had a meeting scheduled with the prime minister, who was then deposed.

So that was a fascinating perspective. And we also talked about the huge piece in the New York Times about civilian casualties in Iraq. Oh, yeah. Because he was the guy who led the fight against ISIS out of the White House and coordinated that effort. And it's hard for me, having spoken to Michael Morrell, John Brennan, all these people over time about how precise our air campaigns are.

Then you read that we're actually 31 times more civilian casualties in Iraq than was reported by the military. There has to be an explanation for that. And that was true under Obama and Trump? Yes. Oh, absolutely. A lot of soul-searching here for Obama's staff. One of the things that was fascinating, too, is that the precision doesn't matter if the information is wrong. Exactly. And that's a frustrating thing about the way we talk about this.

It's like, oh, so precise. We had the house. Like, well, there was a guy and his kid who lived there, not an al-Qaeda or ISIS member. Oof. Yeah. Also, everyone, sign up for the latest Crooked Media pod, Majority 54 with Jason Kander. First episode came out on Friday. It was excellent.

I listened to it when it came out, and it was just a great conversation. This is going to be a really great podcast. It's a hit. Jason Kander's podcast is a hit. Jason is number one. The guy has the voice of a David Allen Boucher-type silky smooth order. And Diana, his wife, crushing it with the ad reads yes many people on twitter saying that they're doing better than i know i don't like the competition i know i knew

you wouldn't i didn't acknowledge those tweets what's in the news john uh let's start with an issue that everyone listening can do something about over the next few weeks uh the donor appeasement act of 2017 yes which is is a Republican tax cut that is mostly for big corporations, millionaires, billionaires, hedge fund managers, foreign investors, and people with multi-million dollar inheritances like the Trump kids, except for probably Tiffany. Brought to you by Koch Industries. To help pay for this tax cut, Republicans would raise taxes and health care premiums on tens of millions of families making under $200,000 a year. And even then, the proposal would still add $1.5 trillion to the deficit. Average polls show that only 28% of Americans approve this. This is now the second most unpopular piece of legislation of all time,

right behind their attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act. That wonk Paul Ryan does it again. It's just... Mitch McConnell, brilliant tactician. Paul Ryan has been there for two of the two most unpopular pieces of legislation. TARP. The financial bank bailout was more popular than their repeal of Obamacare and this tax cut. Honestly, because TARP wasn't as tilted to the wealthy.

And so, despite all of this, on Thursday, even with every Democrat and 13 Republicans voting no, the tax plan passed the House 227 to 205. Debate begins in the Senate right after Thanksgiving. And populist folk hero Donald Trump hopes to sign the bill before the end of the year. So here's my first question. This thing is moving really fast with very little resistance among Republicans. Do you think that the Republicans don't know how deeply unpopular this bill is or do they not care? I think that they're sort of trapped. I think they believe – I think they're correct in believing that if they don't pass something, they have no hopes of any kind of electoral success in 2018.

This is their last chance to pass something big that they can go back to their base and say, look, we did something. Not just the base, by the way, that kind of the elite conservatives, the donors, right? But they've trapped themselves between doing nothing, which is incredibly unpopular, and doing something incredibly unpopular.

There was no reason that the something had to be this thing, but here they are. Yeah, I think that they've rightly learned that if you jam something through the regular order and speed up the process and hold hearings late at night, that we have no appetite to pay attention, that Donald Trump can tweet at LeVar Ball and that is going to get the headline on CNN.com and not like the actual substance of the bill. And so they think that if they can give the Koch brothers and Robert Mercer and all their disgusting huge money donors, their huge estate tax break, that money will come back to them through all the dark money carve out groups they have to support their

elections and super PACs and all that bullshit. So that's probably not a bad assumption on their part. The problem for them is like, Donald Trump could screw up the politics of the turkey part, right? He'll have like Don and Eric shoot the birds at the... Yeah, no, those turkeys are done for. They're done for. First ever turkey parting where they both die. The turkeys are actually well done steaks this year. I guess it must be the Trump era, but I've been even surprised by how brazen some of them have been on just openly admitting that this is for donors. I mean, Lindsey Graham said it, two Republican graham said it two republican congress members said it chris collins and someone else basically like if we don't do this they're going

to shut the spigots off which is just it's crazy just crazy you're not supposed to say that out loud but my thing is like i mean i obviously don't want them to pass it because i think it's much much much better for the country the economy most people in this country if they don't pass it but i think that politically they are worse off if they pass it than if they pass nothing because and this is how i felt about uh the repeal of the affordable care act too like people are going to feel this people are going to see their tax bills increase it's not like again we've made this point before it was not like The Bush tax cuts in 2001 Which were incredibly tilted Towards the wealthy

But everyone got a tax cut Some people just got Middle class people got Much much less than Wealthy people But everyone got Some kind of a tax cut Or if you didn't get

Much of a tax cut You didn't notice There are like Millions and millions And millions of Middle class families Who will see Their tax bill go up

And if they have The individual mandate in there And that's repealed who will see their tax bill go up. And if they have the individual mandate in there and that's repealed, they will see their premiums go up. The individual. That to me seems like that is. The individual mandate piece of this to me is inexplicable and is such terrible politics for them. I wonder, too, if part of the calculus is they are concentrating the immediate pain

in the bill. A lot of the kind of increases will take time to play out, but a lot of the immediate pain is concentrated in Democratic strongholds, right? That's what happens when you get rid of the state and local deduction. Except for these California Republicans. Well, that's what I was going to say. Also, it's in California Republican districts that I think they just don't care about. They just view them as a lost cause at this point.

I don't know. You forget how quickly senators and congressmen become captive of Washington and incapable of speaking English. Like Ron Johnson, who is currently a holdout on the bill, gave a quote to the New York Times of the week. He said, I just have in my heart a real affinity for these owner-operated pass-throughs. We can't leave behind the pass-throughs. Because his family owns one. He has one. Because his family owns one. He has one.

The explanation of this is, yeah, he thinks this is too heavily weighted towards larger businesses and not small businesses like LLCs and S-Corps that are pass-through organizations for tax purposes. Whatever. It's like, that's not a good quote, Ron. That's not how you show people you care about them and their struggles and their challenges when they're hurt by this bill. It's such a bad quote that I can't believe that he got headlines when he first said no to this bill that were, oh, he cares more about big corporations. The bill's too weighted towards big corporations and not enough towards small businesses. It's not small businesses. It's these fucking pass-throughs that are like really, really wealthy people. Giant real estate trusts. Giant real estate trusts. Exactly. Who wants those? Yeah, that brings me to

sort of the vote count in the Senate right now. So what's going to happen? So everything's going to be quiet this week. Everyone's going to go home for Thanksgiving, and then when they come back, McConnell's going to just go full force on this as fast as he can. So Ron Johnson is so far a no, but he said he's

optimistic that a solution will be found. Not counting on Ron Johnson. Yeah, no, I'm not counting on Ron Johnson either. No. Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. They said that both of them don't like the addition of partial Obamacare repeal and the form of the individual mandate repeal, though neither of them, both of them have taken great pains to say

that that would not be a deal breaker for sure. And Murkowski likes the potential drilling in ANWR in the most protected part of Alaska. She wants to just spew oil all over it. Got to get the rest of that oil. Yeah. Got to get the rest of that oil. So, you know, they certainly seem somewhat opposed,

but not fully opposed. Then you've got the deficit people, the deficit retirees, McCain, Corker, and Flake. The deficit retirees. None of these senators are going to be running for re-election uh they've all made noise about not voting for a bill that adds to the deficit this one does and then yesterday trump preemptively attacked flake for what he's predicting i guess is a no vote because you know art of the deal um but uh catch more bees with honey

but uh but none of these guys have said that they're voting no though you know if again this when flake and corker and everyone like they gave their big speeches i said i don't expect them to vote for liberal policies or to not be conservative anymore but by their own admission they're saying we don't want a bill that will add to the deficit this one does uh i know that they're like taking this dynamic magic scoring into effect when they're talking about the deficit but you could see corker or flake at least saying fuck you to donald trump on their way out corker was was so clear yeah he said not one penny not one penny or at the dime he said he won't vote for it if it adds one penny to the deficit. So that's like 10 times even less a deficit.

That's like the 10th of the debt that I thought he was going to allow. So if Corger votes for this, he just lied. That's all. So, I mean, he should vote no. Yeah. So the other interesting thing that happened on the mandate piece is that on one of the Sunday shows, OMB director Mick Mulvaney was on the show. And he basically said that they could pull the individual mandate out of the bill if that was the way to get it through.

So you start wondering if Collins or Murkowski or anyone else who doesn't think that – or McCain who voted against just an individual mandate repeal back when it was called skinny repeal, back when he put his thumb down. And the 01 and 03 tax cuts because they were tilted towards the wealthy and drove up the deficit. And he wants regular order. Right, which he's been back and forth on that. He's got like 85 reasons he should vote against this. You'd think now at least that if McCain and Collins and Murkowski don't want to add health care repeal into this bill and Mulvaney's on the show saying, on Sunday's show, saying, yeah, maybe we could take it out, that we could get this part out of the bill.

You know, they act like it's so hard to cobble together the money when there's huge amounts of, if they need to make up the difference from the individual mandate, they can get it by knocking 1% off the cut for the corporate tax rate. There are big pools of money in here. By just moving the numbers a little bit, you can rake in a bunch more money. The idea that like, you know, we scraped the bottom of the barrel and the only way to pay for this is by raising premiums on millions of people and causing 10 million people lose insurance. And put in play votes like Collins and Murkowski.'s just this massive carve out to give that will allow churches to give money to candidates and be politically engaged for the first time since 1954 it would repeal something called the johnson amendment uh which you know is supposed to prevent charities foundations churches from engaging in like candidate specific politicking this would mean that a coke brother could give a billion dollars to some church they

created yesterday, and that church could funnel that money towards candidates and organizations, and they don't even file tax returns half the time. There's no disclosure. Church of our lady of the coal mine. Church of our smokestacks. Why has it been so hard to keep this fight in the headlines? And why has it been so much harder than the fight to stop Obamacare repeal? I mean, I guess, you know, Republicans, if they like anything, if there's any reason they're in politics, it's to cut taxes, which, so I get that. And I get that it's probably going to be very tough to stop any kind of tax cut from passing. But this is so egregious, so much worse than the Bush tax cuts, which were egregious, because

this is actually, they've somehow designed a tax cut that not only gives hundreds of billions of dollars to the richest people in this country, but also to pay for it by raising taxes on a lot of other people. Why can we, how, why are we having so much trouble keeping this in the headline? I don't know. I think. We're scared of these fights. I think it's... I don't think that's what it is.

I think it's really... Like, you think that, like, Democrats... But there's not a single Democrat who's been... I thought there'd be a whole bunch of squishy red state Democrats in 2018 who were playing ball on this. I think on its face, a tax cut sounds good. So it's a little bit harder of a fight. I tried to ask Senator McCaskill about this. I didn't think that her answer was a crisp coherent argument i just

i guess we're not hearing it maybe because the bill is amorphous and constant work in progress we don't know what's in it yeah but i haven't heard like a i mean sure yeah they are holding tough but i think that's more function of how it's easy to hold tough against donald trump right now yeah you know it's a little bit it's a little bit the government by sucker punch thing again in that there's no final bill. It's kind of confusing what's going on. There's the House bill that passed. The Senate's still debating it.

They're actually different, right? They're different bills. I don't know. I mean, you know, I'm wondering if we're not going to see the same thing that happened when they were doing the race for the whatever, the fourth iteration of the health care bill, which is it's quiet, it's quiet, it's quiet because we're not sure what's really happening. And all of a sudden, oh, shit, this is going to happen.

That's right. And then people wake up. I don't know. What do you think? I think that's possible. I think that we're still, I mean, there's sort of a no one talks about it. And then there's a period of why have we been so far behind on this? Let's all freak out.

And then once we get to the actual week where it matters which is the week after thanksgiving the two weeks after thanksgiving then people really get involved and i and i hope that happens again this time i just think we are going to as a party or anyone who wants to stop these tax cuts whether you're democrat or not it's going to be an exercise in discipline after the break there's a lot of stuff in the news all the time and we're going to have democrats aren't just going to have to not be afraid of the fight but they're gonna have to speak with one voice over and over again and be incredibly disciplined in our message no matter what other tweets and stories come our way because this is you know there's a headline in forbes yesterday

for you know the liberal bastion it was like this is going to cause these tax cuts are going to cause a recession they're going to cut they're going to really fuck up the economy do you feel like you understand what the plan is on the republican side for how to get this not just a house bill and a senate bill but to get something uh to be signed into law because are we looking at another situation where are they going to go to conference or is mcconnell going to send no they're going to try to they're going to try to pre-cook something mcconnell's going to try to pre-cook something with the house which would be like a pre-conference committee so like a blue apron bill like a blue yeah a better a better way to now i get it a better way to screw the middle class um and so last what will happen

is last minute mcconnell will substitute a new bill in for the bill that they're currently debating on the floor. And he'll have everyone in the Senate vote on that bill. That will be the bill that has already been agreed to by Paul Ryan, who will say, I think I can get the House to pass this. So then the Senate will pass it. The House will pass the same exact bill so they don't have to go to conference. And then the idea is that Trump signs it into law and they get it all done before Doug Jones comes to the Senate. Regular order. No, but that's good.

Right. So it is. Yeah, exactly. So the danger of that play is that McCain specifically would flip out and say that is very far from regular order. Thumbs down it. So that's what could happen. So what do we do? But that is, by the way though that is that is basically the exact

same thing they were trying to do with health care right just get something passed and then we'll quickly just get me into the the voterama so that i can have substitute something in that i can send to the house which is why the house passed you know a bill that is probably more egregious than what the senate will do at least in terms of some of the the big ones that we've been talking about the uh the graduate stuff, all that kind of stuff. That's not in the Senate bill. Getting rid of the $250 tax break for teachers who buy supplies for the classroom. Right, right.

So Ivanka Trump can have her inheritance tax-free. That one to me, if... Very important. That one to me is the one, like we talked about on Love It or Leave It, like that one to me is the single most egregious one, that they take $2 billion, which is from teachers expensing $250 worth of supplies, and the estate tax repeal for Betsy DeVos's family is $2 billion. Those teachers have been riding high on the hog for too long.

Guys, you know what? I'm not going to listen to these attacks on Ivanka. She is buying giant clamshells. She's filling them with detritus that she finds on the beach in the Hamptons. And it takes time. It takes money. I wanted to make that joke, and I didn't even know what the centerpiece was or what it was made of. So thank you for remembering that.

You're very welcome. I just remember seeing the picture on Twitter. Desaturated pumpkins. That's what Ivanka is telling us is in this year. Do you want a centerpiece at Thanksgiving that makes you sad? It's time for the

white pumpkins in a giant evil clam with giant spokes posts pointing out of it like one of those warning signs to let you know that there's radiation

in the desert. So I emailed our friend Ben Wickler at MoveOn last night to ask him what we should be saying in terms of what people can do. He obviously said, keep melting the phones. Over recess,

go to contactincongress.org for a list of their local offices. And you can keep calling their local offices since they'll be home for recess. And you can also use Indivisible's auto-dialer tool to call people in key states and ask them to call. So this is, again, if you're one of these people who's like,

I'm in a red state or I'm in a blue state, you can have friends in purple states call. You go to trumptaxscam.org. And then next week, there's going to be wall-to-wall protests nationwide organized. Indivisible's Day of Action is Monday, November 27th. OFA has a Day of Action Tuesday, November 28th. Move On has a week of action Wednesday, 29th through December. Show-offs. Everybody at Onion Hill is like, fuck it, we're going to Five Blades. And finally, there

are some ads on our side that are going up on television. The other issue is, we've talked about why this is harder, the entire right is all in on this plan. And so there's a lot more television ads from the right than there were during Obamacare appeal because you've got to get those tax cuts. Maybe still steer some of that impeachment petition money into ads. Hey, Tom Steyer. Hey, Tom Steyer.

Appreciate that. Maybe instead of spending $10 million on self-portraits that you mail to voters in Iowa, you could put some money towards stopping a fucking tax cut for yourself. Can I read you guys one fun thing before we go on to Doug Jones and Roy Moore? BuzzFeed Story just posted that apparently says that H.R. McMaster has described Trump in a meeting with the Oracle CEO as an idiot, a dope, and with the intelligence of a kindergartner. That's going to be a tough one to walk back. That's going to be a big tweet storm today. That's going to be a tough one to walk back. That's going to be a big tweet storm today. That's going to be a tough one to walk back. It's so funny.

All these people are going to be listening to this episode later today, tomorrow, and they'll all know what the FOD is. We don't. What a coincidence that Rex Tillerson in HR didn't call him an idiot, right? Guys, I know we're not in the prediction business anymore. I'm going to ask you guys a question.

You have to take it. You have to decide. Okay, this is exciting. Does he attack BuzzFeed and say it's not true? Yes. Or he doesn't turn on McMaster? He does not turn on McMaster. He says it never happened.

He says it never happened. It's fake news. It's the same outlet that first came up with the phony dossier. Oh, that's good. And then him'll basically, and then him and all his advisors will basically do what the Kate McKinnon, Kellyanne Conway character did on SNL

in the It sketch, which is when he said idiot, he actually meant hero. He actually meant that the reporter was the idiot and not Donald Trump. Right, because if he turns on HR, that means he concedes that HR said it, which makes him feel small and dumb.

That's right. That's right. What do you think, Levitt? Do you want to go with turn... Do you want to take turn in? No, I'm trying to think that maybe... Take the over. Take the over.

I need odds. I need odds. No, I think it's obvious he has to turn on BuzzFeed. What else is he going to say? Yeah. Or he'll nuke North Korea. Though he does surprise us sometimes. In hindsight, what he does fits in with his character,

but he does surprise us. Yeah, he, what he does fits in with his character, but he does surprise us. Yeah, he surprises us, his impulsiveness. Okay, let's talk about Doug Jones for U.S. Senate. Here's some news that should make everyone want to donate more to Doug Jones. The RealClearPolitics average now has him slightly ahead of Roy Moore for the first time in this race, and the last two polls have him up eight and up five. That is incredible. Yeah.

So, you know, I kind of thought and some pollsters were saying, look, in the polls right after the scandal breaks, you usually sometimes there's a response bias. Republicans don't want to answer the polls. And so it's going to show a huge dip for Roy Moore. But then slowly as the scandal recedes, he gets better. The opposite has happened. So obviously, there's still a lot of time. Who knows what the fucking polls will do. But things have been getting worse and worse and worse on the polls for Roy Moore, not better at this point.

So there's still a lot of time and everything. So Donald Trump has not condemned or he has not withdrawn his support for Moore. condemned or he has not withdrawn his support for Moore. And on Friday, Alabama Governor Kay Ivey said that she has no reason to disbelieve any of the women who have accused Roy Moore of sexual assault. And yet, she will be voting for Roy Moore anyway because, quote, we need to have a Republican in the United States Senate to vote on things like Supreme Court justices. And then hours later, out of the blue, the White House released an unexpected list of 25 potential Supreme Court nominees.

Do you think that Donald Trump's trying to tell the base something there? Do you think that it is a good move strategically for the Republican National Committee to put out bumper stickers that say, I'm with the pedophile? Yeah, I think that's... Has that been a good decision for them?

Your point about the polling is well taken because sometimes people don't read the news the way we do. We're lunatics, and it will take you three or four or five days to kind of hear about what happened. There's an episode. To hear from your neighbor what he or she thinks about what they read, and that helps us form our opinions. But when you have the three biggest papers in the state of Alabama running a front page above the fold headline that says, Stand for decencyency reject Roy Moore maybe maybe that will make everyone think the big liberal media is out to get him and they got to stand by their guy and all these disgusting pastors who are getting quoted saying they're with him because of whatever right-wing hobby horses but hopefully this stuff will sink in and make people think like it makes all of us look horrific if we elect a fucking pedophile.

Yeah. Are they? I mean, let's talk about this. This republic, the White House response. Yeah. The courts. No, it's fascinating. And the governor's response.

Yes. I mean, they're basically all saying, sure, he's a pedophile, but better a pedophile than a Democrat because a Democrat won't vote for our judges. Democrat may be pro choice. I can't I don't fully understand why they're not, like, no one's... I guess we should throw in, by the way, the Kellyanne Conway quote this morning, which was pretty... Kellyanne Conway this morning in response to Fox & Friends host Brian Kilmeade's question about whether people in Alabama should vote for Roy Moore. And she said, I'm telling you that we want the votes in the Senate to get this tax bill through. Right. So she can't bring herself to say vote for Roy Moore, but she's saying vote for Roy Moore.

bill through. Right. So she can't bring herself to say vote for Roy Moore, but she's saying vote for Roy Moore. Are they, I don't understand, are they just saying, get us Roy Moore in the Senate and we'll use him. And even though it's morally reprehensible, we need the vote. Or are they saying, wink and a nod, vote for Roy Moore. He'll never make it into the Senate, but Mitch McConnell won't seat him. They'll throw him out, and then the Republican governor will appoint somebody better. Is that what they're kind of saying? That might be what they're, I don't know if they're saying that, but that's probably what they're planning. So why don't they come out, like, I just don't, I really don't understand what they're doing

here. Like, why, what are they, what is the consequences for these guys saying? Well, because then, if they come out and say, we will be expelling Roy Moore the second he gets to the Senate, but vote for him anyway. They lose all the righty. Yeah. Yeah. And think of what Roy Moore will say in Alabama.

I mean, it will just be, they'll, the rift in the Republican Party between the Bannonites and everyone else will become even worse. Roy Moore will surround his Senate office with 5,000 pound 10 commandment statues so they can get him inside. Yeah. I mean, but it's interesting that Republicans are so, I mean then the fact that the white house put out the list of supreme court justices basically what they're trying to say is you know it's not just their first message was vote for roy moore the alleged pedophile because a democrat would be so much worse we don't want a democrat now they're upping the stakes even more than saying vote for him because the Supreme Court of the United States is at stake, which it sort of is. Yeah.

So this has sort of been underreported on the Democratic side. But right now, Democrats need to flip three Republican seats to win the Senate. We already have, and we've had for a while, two incredibly promising targets. In Nevada, Hillary beat Trump by two and a half percent. And Dean Heller is one of the most unpopular senators in the country. Dirty Dean Heller. So that's Nevada. Dirty politician.

He's a dirty politician. In Arizona, Hillary only lost to Trump by 3.5%, less than she lost in Ohio or Iowa. And it is now an open seat in Arizona because Flake retired. But the reason we don't talk about the Senate is because getting that third seat has always been incredibly difficult.

For a while, the next best target has been Texas, where Beto O'Rourke has a decent chance against Cruz, but pretty hard. It's tough. And Tennessee, where Corker was. And Corker's probably an open seat, but still Tennessee's pretty, pretty red. But if Doug Jones wins, suddenly the Senate probably becomes easier for the Democrats to take than even the House. Yeah. Because they just have to flip Arizona and Nevada.

If they defend the seat in Indiana, Joe Donnelly's seat, which is tough, Claire McCaskill's seat in Missouri, Heidi Heitkamp in North Dakota, Sherrod in Ohio, Bill Nelson in Florida. So we have some seats to defend. But flipping two is huge. It goes from, look, there was a huge wall. There was a huge block to that third seat. And now it just, that's gone. Yeah, that's why we all should go into this seat eyes wide open the way we did

with all these congressional special elections. The fact that we're talking about Alabama, there's an election in Alabama is crazy. Everyone just step back and think that Donald Trump is so toxic, that the Republican Party is so toxic that they put forward Roy Moore that this is in play. OK, that's a positive thing. But it's a reason why we all need to open up our wallets and give this guy 50 bucks today. Because, you know what?

A bunch of like L.A. people like us traipsing around Alabama, probably not a net benefit. I find that insulting. But we can financially support this campaign. I find that insulting to think that I can't go sort of walk and knock on doors, get out some votes in Birmingham. You're just a strong Alabama guy. Get out some votes in Tuscaloosa. I think that's bullshit. But I agree with you. Allow yourself for a brief moment to be tempted by the thought of what would happen if Democrats win the Senate.

If Democrats win the Senate in 2018, Donald Trump's legislative agenda is dead. He cannot pass any more bills. There are no more tax cuts. There are no more Obamacare repeal. There's no wall. Nothing. Not only that, Donald Trump cannot confirm any more bad appointees to the federal government. That is over. He cannot confirm any more

judges, federal judges. That is over. And Donald Trump cannot fill a Supreme Court vacancy again, if the Democrats take the Senate. It is, the stakes could not be bigger. They are in a race right now to get as many judges through as possible. They're changing even more rules, you know, about what Democratic senators can have input on. He has been racing to appoint judges at a clip faster than any previous president in the modern era because they understand how fragile their majorities are and i think deep down nobody

thinks donald trump will be around uh for eight years so man it's where they've had their most enjoying thinking about winning the senate i mean that's look you start understanding as fucking gross as it is why the republicans why they're working so hard for the seat and trying to like just stand by roy moore here because they that party has done a better job talking about the stakes of the judiciary than we have in our party forever they always cared about i mean they did this trump basically did this uh in 2016 when he was running against hillary he basically shouted i know i'm an asshole but think about the Supreme Court. He would just put his finger out and he would go, judges.

And it would work. And we don't think enough about it. I mean, in all these stories in the last couple of weeks about how many of these federal judges he's confirming and how awful they are and how the one guy who never even tried. He got his legal degree on the back of a Count Chocol tried yeah he got his he got his he got his legal degree by on the back of a count chocolate box he sent a receipt in but these people are going to be these people are going to be on the bench for life yeah and they're going to be shaping policy that affects millions and millions of people for a generation if not many generations and then and so and the supreme court you know we could have a couple more vacancies also it's the scariest

thing about it's it's well no it's one of the scariest things about donald trump's president if we were to win the senate and take the house which until doug jones had a shot of this seat seemed impossible i think what mitch mcconnell also understands is let's not forget donald trump has no beliefs whatsoever no core values does not care about any of this. So he'll pick up. I mean, he already picked up the phone and called Chuck Schumer just because he was mad at Mitch McConnell. Now imagine Chuck Schumer is the majority leader. Right. Right.

So keep imagining Chuck Schumer is the majority leader. Yeah, but don't let Republicans imagine it. Don't tell them about this. It's just for us. Again, so not to get ahead of ourselves here. Like Alabama is not Virginia. Alabama is not even Georgia where John Ossoff couldn't get over the top. Alabama is Alabama.

It's Alabama. And yet, you know, it is very close there. So do not spare any effort. Check out Doug Jones' website. Yeah. Recurring donation. Maybe. Maybe a little recurring.

December 12th, that's the election. I'm going to check it out right now. Let's do the next segment. I i want to talk about uh on thursday it's a good website trump's federal communications commission chairman ajit pai voted to eliminate restrictions on local media ownerships paving the way for the trump friendly sinclair broadcasting to own over 200 local television stations that reach more than 7 out of 10 Americans. 46% of Americans still get their news from local TV, according to Pew. What are the implications of this decision? They're massive. Massive. national broadcasting capability through a sort of patchwork network of local news affiliates that

will allow them to put forward their corporate propaganda in a way that is unprecedented or really it's you know it's fox-like and they have a history of doing this in 2004 they refused to run a nightline piece where ted koppel read aloud the names of u.s casualties in iraq because they said it was biased jared kushner cut a sweetheart deal with sininclair to run sort of unedited Trump interviews that were softball garbage during the campaign. Before the 2004 election, Sinclair stations wanted to run an anti-Cary documentary that their D.C. bureau chief called biased political propaganda. He was fired. Sections of the documentary ran. I forgot about that one.

This is a massive deal. It's just well-known bias. Right now, Sinclair is in millions of homes already. I forgot about that one. This is a massive deal. It's just well-known bias. Deep cut. Right now, so Sinclair is in millions of homes already, and they have these must-run segments. So you turn on your local news. It looks like your local news. They cover what's happening in your town, whatever local crime stories, election stories. There's weather and sports, but then snuck in the middle is Trump's former aide, Boris

Epstein, saying, many people are saying that Donald Trump is not the best, but this is incorrect. And let me tell you why. He like, there's a must run segment where they had, that was where, you know, when Zeb Gorka was on television. Dr. Gorka. No, no Gorka had that ridiculous racist speech where he referred to black African on black African crime or whatever, that was a must run segment for Sinclair Broadcasting. And it is so nefarious because people know that Fox, you know, people know like people watching Fox News are not under an illusion that it isn't conservative. They know what they're watching. We watch CNN, MSNBC, all the rest, Positive America. or an illusion that it isn't conservative.

They know what they're watching. We watch CNN, MSNBC, all the rest, Positive America. But when you watch your local news, you know it comes at things from a kind of pro-police perspective, whatever. But you don't think it's coming from a Republican mega-donor feeding propaganda into your house. But it is. I mean, Sinclair bought the Washington, D.C. station, WJLA,

and there was a big internal fight to push it to the right. same thing happened at the Seattle station I mean just don't forget like personnel is control in these places and if you fire the guy who runs a newsroom and you install some moron like Boris F Steen or you know some other conservative voice it is going to push reporting to the right in ways that are subtle but problematic yeah and personnel is policy and it comes to the right in ways that are subtle but problematic. Yeah, and personnel is policy when it comes to the federal government and the fucking FCC. This is what Donald Trump wins. He gets to install his chairman, and this is what happens. Not only this Sinclair issue, on Wednesday, it looks like they're going to vote, the FCC is going to vote to kill net neutrality, which has gone completely under the radar.

Net neutrality prevents internet providers like Verizon or Comcast from being able to influence what kind of content you're able to access so that basically Comcast can't slow down your Amazon Prime video so that you'll keep your Comcast cable package. That's the idea.

Or Verizon can't have tiered internet access so if you pay a lot, you can access everything. But if you pay less, you can only access what Verizon chooses to show you. Right. Well, Verizon has their on-demand service where you can watch on-demand things through Verizon. But, oh, if you want Netflix, it's a $2 Netflix surcharge. Right. So that's the idea of net neutrality. And now, you know, it looks like that they're going to quietly vote right before Thanksgiving to try to kill these rules, which is another boon to these big internet providers. Who obviously behave so admirably without rules.

They're the most decent and wonderful companies. So they all claim that they're for net neutrality in theory and they're for the rules. But of course, if they vote to eliminate these rules, then the FCC can't actually enforce the rules. And they are raptors testing the fences. They will nibble away at it in little ways that don't seem like net neutrality violations. They'll slowly, you know, all of a sudden you realize like, oh, actually, you're allowed to go there, but it uses your data. But this doesn't use your data. Like little decisions that will slowly eat away at your ability to use the Internet without worrying that Verizon, the people that control the pipes are dictating what you can say in nazi yeah it's not great gotta change the

fcc guys a lot of people have been saying like you know call call the fcc call your members of congress um again this is one that has slipped when we talked about tax cuts hasn't been in the news this one has slipped completely under the radar but also these fcc commissioners you know i don't know how immune they are to uh public pressure here which is a yeah i mean i think the story is everyone is immune to public pressure right if you feel embarrassed because you're doing something shameful and there's a ton of attention to it it will make it it will make a difference at the very least it will raise awareness about this the issue if it comes up again yeah have to fight these things we have to fight every battle this

is too important yeah especially and because the sincinclair thing, too, is very – it is very, very scary because we are – since Donald Trump has been elected and even before that, you know, propaganda. We focus a lot on Russian propaganda. But you know what? Fucking conservative propaganda is way more influential and it's been way worse for a long time. And it's not conservative anymore. It's just right-wing garbage at this point. And, you know, Fox News, Sinclair, what Sean Hannity does every night, you know,

the whipping up of these conspiracy theories, we act as though because there are other outlets, because there's still CNN, because there's still MSNBC, because there's still the New York Times,

that there's still the reality, there's still, like, reality-based news that exists. Somehow we're protected against the influence of places like Fox, the influence of places like Fox, the influence of places like Sinclair, but it's just not true. The opposite is true. Yeah, these places are incredibly influential. And, you know, Sean Hannity has gone so much further than

even he used to go, and he was always despicable. You know, this uranium one thing I think is a watershed in a lot of ways. We'll look back on it anyway, because it's not just that they're whipping up something you know benghazi started with the deaths of four americans and questions about whether or not something could have been done differently the accusation about a national security threat because of uranium one and corruption is just made up it was made up by a bright part editor i mean the other beyond the pale the sinclair stuff is happening the sinclair consolidation and their ability to push corporate propaganda from a central location to local affiliates is happening at the same time as the business model for local news has become unworkable or long past the time when that happened.

And so there's less and less tough local news. There's more of like newsrooms consolidating newspapers in a market combining with TV stations in a market. And they're just going to it's going to make it harder for truth to get out, facts for actual reporting to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Not good. Go ahead. Yeah.

Just one more thing, too, by the way. This connects to what's happening with taxes and this connects to what's happening with widening economic inequality in this country, that the concentration of wealth, that the result of Citizens United, the result of whatever, the dynamism in our economy causing huge amounts of money to flow to the top. These are the people. These are the wealthy families buying up media properties, buying up think tanks, paying

for huge numbers of ads, paying the donations to these Republican politicians to get this corporate tax cut, to get this repeal of the estate tax. And, you know, we act as though that like, that things can't change so drastically that we don't recognize the country. Like, this is how it happens. This is how you slowly build an aristocracy that has the ability to dictate its own terms, make its own news, buy its own legislators. I mean, we are living in that reality. And I just, how much worse does it have to get before we see it for what it is? Doug Jones for Senate. Doug Jones for Senate. When we come back, we will be talking to the senior senator from the state of Missouri,

Claire McCaskill. It was a good conversation. It was. On the pod today, we are very lucky to have the senior senator from the state of Missouri, Claire McCaskill. Senator McCaskill, welcome to the pod. Thanks. It's great to be with you guys. So we were just talking about this Republican tax proposal. You've been pretty outspoken about it over the last several weeks.

I know at the beginning of this process, you had sort of hoped to work with Republicans on sort of a bipartisan plan. Was there a version of this plan that you could have supported, and what would that have looked like? I think they're squandering an opportunity. I think they could get close to 70 votes for a tax reform proposal if they were willing to not make this all about folks that are really wealthy. If you would double the child tax credit and make it fully refundable. If you would clean out some of the goodies like carried interest and like-kind exchanges and all of those loopholes and complexities that are the playground of tax avoidance and lower the corporate rate to make it more competitive at the same time,

do a repatriation at 10%, with half of that money being set aside for infrastructure, I think you could get 70 votes in the United States Senate for something like that. But they don't seem to be interested in that. They seem much more fixated, taking care. I mean, if you look at this bill, what's really astounding is in 2019, about 500,000 people that make more than a million dollars a year are going to get $39 billion that we borrow from China. And 90 million people are going to get 14, an average about 160 bucks apiece.

I don't think that's going to turn out well for our country. And I certainly don't even think it's going to turn out well for the Republicans politically. Senator, it's very rare for a committee hearing to be something that is shared, like on Facebook over and over again. Yet it seems like it's happened twice this week, is shared like on Facebook over and over again, yet it seems like it's happened twice this week, once when Senator Brown and Senator Orrin Hatch went at it, once when you and Senator Hatch got into an argument about this bill. And both times, Hatch has said, you know, I come from poverty, I believe in opportunity. This is a bill about creating opportunity. How does he square that? Do you believe that he is sincere in believing that? And how does he square that with, say, the estate tax repeal or the fact that, you know,

nonpartisan analysis says that it's going to raise taxes on working people? I mean, what do you think is going on for him? Well, you know, he's a really nice guy, and he knows this is a fig leaf in terms of the way typically the finance committee works for a markup. He knows this is not a real markup. There are so many things they did. I mean, tempers flared because we were basically shut out of the process. We were not given a bill, ever given bill text. It kept changing.

They put all the Republican amendments in the markup and left all the Democratic amendments to be considered one by one. You know, we get an amendment at the very end, the cleanup amendment, that our staff hadn't even seen. This is not the way the Senate Finance Committee has worked. And Orrin Hatch knows that, and it probably pains him. But he was in an awkward position, I believe. He was given this as his job to do to get this bill out of committee last week, and he was going to do it because he was told that that had to happen in terms of a timeline. Don't ask me why they're going so quickly, but clearly he had his marching orders and he was following them. I don't think that Oren, my friends on the Republican side were

telling me that the bill primarily was written by Pat Toomey, a big club for growth, somebody who is a very, very supply-side guy who thinks every problem in the world can be solved with a tax cut. So, you know, I hate it that Orrin felt put upon. But had the roles been reversed, I can assure you that Orrin Hatch, that served in the Senate for 40 years would have just been just as offended as we were. Senator, I guess we see bills like this come up fairly regularly from Republicans that are so obviously weighted towards the wealthiest sliver of human beings on the planet. Like a dozen billionaires would get, you know, a quarter of the tax cut or some sort of massive percentage.

billionaires would get, you know, a quarter of the tax cut or some sort of massive percentage. It feels like this is a winnable fight for Democrats, yet we don't, I don't feel like we win it outright. Like, what is your message to Democrats out there who want to talk to their friends about this bill, who want to fight this bill on a state level? Like, what are the talking points we should be using to push back on these kinds of absurd giveaways to the wealthy? I think that, you know, the complexity is one of the things we should talk about. I think people are predisposed to believe that Congress is not going to take care of them because frequently when there have been tax cuts, it has just exacerbated the problem we have in this country

with the wide divide between the haves and the have-nots. Some middle-income taxpayers aren't going to get any tax cut at all. Some of them are going to get a tax increase, depending on what state you live in. But even those that get it, it's going to be very, very modest. And meanwhile, the House Republicans want to deliver multibillion-dollar tax cuts to a small handful of very, very wealthy families by doing away with the estate tax. So I think it's about creating, I mean, they said they were going to simplify things.

I got the experts to agree during this markup that we have seven books of the tax code now, about 10,000 pages each. They acknowledged that we were probably going to add a book with what they're doing, not subtract a book. So I think it's complexity. I think it's, you know, the notion that they're worried about somebody having to pay taxes on income they don't receive if you're a millionaire, but it's okay if you're a graduate student.

There's some simple things like that that we can talk about. Somebody who makes $500,000 a year is going to get the full benefit of the child tax credit. Somebody who makes less than $50,000 a year isn't. That's the kind of stuff we should talk about. Senator, this morning CNN had a report that a second woman has accused Al Franken of inappropriate touching. This time it was during a picture he took with her at the Minnesota State Fair while he was a senator in 2010. I know that the ethics investigation has just begun, but what's your reaction to this latest news? First of all, let me just say, most importantly, this is an important moment in our country's

history. I'm someone who began serving, I was an intern in Washington in 1974 and an intern in the Missouri legislature in 1974. I went to the Missouri legislature as a state representative in 1983. And the stories I can tell, it was, you know, as a young legislator even, I was single in my 20s in Jefferson City, and it was ugly. I mean, the things that were said to me, the jokes that I was made the butt of, the touching, a lot happened back in those days. I think we are now empowering women to come forward, even when they feel like they are up against a system that is betting against them in terms of how much power they have.

So overall, what is going on in this country is a very, very positive thing. I would distinguish Al Franken from some of the others at this point because he immediately owned the conduct and immediately said, I want you to investigate me. I did something wrong. I did something very wrong. I'm ashamed of it. And so I do think that investigation should occur,

and I think depending on what that investigation finds, then I think that would be the moment to make a decision as to what I would recommend for Al Franken in terms of his career going forward. Senator, do you think the Senate Ethics Committee is an appropriate forum? I think the knock on it would be that it's a little bit clubby. It will take time. It's a little bit too slow. There might not be sort of a transparent render of what was found in this moment when people are really focused on this issue. Are we giving Al Franken a pass that we wouldn't give a Republican? Well, both ways. First of all, the committee is not, Johnny Isakson runs the committee, not a Democrat. So it is certainly not a partisan

exercise, and I'm sure it's not without flaws. But if you look through history, for example, when Ensign was accused of all kinds of inappropriate conduct relating to his morality and his personal life, rather than allow the Ethics Commission to reach its conclusion, he resigned. And you can look at Packwood, once again, someone who was forced out of the Senate by members of the Senate. someone who was forced out of the Senate by members of the Senate. And, you know, on the other hand, David Vitter lived to fight another fight, but eventually some of his conduct, I think, brought him down, and he was not elected in a very, very Republican state for governor.

So there are prices that are going to be paid by all of these men that have been accused, and how severe the price is is going to depend on the facts and circumstances in each case. I do think that there is a bright line between sexual harassment and criminal conduct, and make no mistake about it. If you are asking a 14-year-old to touch you on your genitals, or if you are touching a 14-year-old after you've removed articles of their clothing, that is criminal conduct in every state in the union. I know. I prosecuted it for a number of years.

So the notion, once again, even though a number of people have come forward, a failure to even acknowledge that his conduct was inappropriate or not worthy of a U.S. senator on the part of Roy Moore, frankly, is jaw-dropping. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're right, Senator. And these are fact-specific instances, and any sexual conduct towards a 14-year-old is child molestation. It is horrific. And I think you're right, it is different than what the allegations are against Senator Franken. But more broadly, I mean, I do think we're going through this reckoning as a country in the wake of the Weinstein allegations

and all the reports we've seen afterwards. And it has led me as a Democrat who supported Bill Clinton for a long time to think if Donald Trump had sexual relations with an intern while in office, I would think of my response would be very different than I think my response was a few years ago. If other allegations that we read from Juanita Broderick came out about Bill Clinton today, I think we'd react very differently. Do you think the party needs a broader reckoning with that history to appropriately consider and take on how big a deal is this cultural moment is and how important these changes clearly are to not just women across the country, but I think to like a sickened culture that has allowed this to go on for too long?

Well, I think we need to take everything that has happened in the past involving any person in a position of power and evaluate going forward how we need to do things differently. I don't think there's any question that the Clinton family paid a very high price, and ultimately maybe it cost them the presidency, some of the conduct that had gone on over the years. Certainly, as the things came forward about Trump, it allowed that, well, what about moment. I'll never forget, you know, what they did at the St. Louis debate where they brought those women.

And this was them trying to fight back over the revelations of the way Donald Trump talked about women on the Access Hollywood tape. I mean, it was like, look over there, look over there, don't look here. And that's obviously what happens in politics. But I think you need to put it all in a package and wrap it up with a big bow and say, listen, it's a new day, and we need to decide that conduct that is misogynistic, that is demeaning to women, that is sexual in nature to women who are not at all interested in being the object of that kind of attention, that it's time for that stuff to stop going forward. And those of us who have fought in these trenches for years and years and years

are pleased to see that all of it's coming out, all the warts. It doesn't matter about party. It matters about whether or not we can do better, and I think we can. Senator, so you're in a pretty competitive election in 2018. Last month, Casey Hunt of NBC caught an amazing moment on video where Senator Cory Gardner, who's the chair of the National Republican Senate Committee, almost accidentally hit you with his car coming out of the Capitol building. And you yelled back to him, probably the only shot you've got to take me out, which I thought was maybe the best line of 2017 so far. So you feel pretty confident about this election. I know Donald Trump won your state by 19 points. Roy Blunt beat our mutual pal Jason Kander by 3 points. Why do you think Missouri's gotten redder over the years, and how do you plan to overcome that trend in 2018?

context on this, because in 2004, I was defeated narrowly for governor of Missouri, and Republicans did very, very well. And the Republicans crowed in the paper the next morning, color Missouri bright firecracker red. And the next cycle, I beat Jim Talent for a seat in the U.S. Senate. And two years after that, we swept all the statewide elections. So, you know, and remember, there were hundreds of thousands of people that voted for both me and Mitt Romney in 12. And I think there were around 230,000 people that voted for Donald Trump and Jason Kander in the same election. There's a bunch of Missourians that don't put party first. They want you to show up. They want you to be independent. They want you to show up. They want you to be independent. They want you to have integrity.

And in that vein, I'm on my way to my 48th and 49th town halls today, both in counties that Trump won by more than 30. I have done this all year long in very, very red country. And I have been pleasantly surprised at the lack of confrontation and vitriol and instead how many people just wanted me to tell them that we can work together. Republicans and Democrats can get things done for them. I think my moderation and my record of working across the aisle

is going to be one of my very good friends next year in this campaign. And I'm always the underdog. I'm always the most likely to lose. It's a position I'm very comfortable with. I'm always the underdog. I'm always the most likely to lose. It's a position I'm very comfortable with. I like being the underdog. I like swinging above my weight. And I'm going to do it in this election. And I'm going to work as hard as I can. And I'm cautiously optimistic that Missourians will rehire me. And what message about Donald Trump and the Republicans gets heads nodding the most in those town halls? When I say it's time for us to quit playing politics with your health care and work together

to make things better, that we need to get beyond Obamacare, quote-unquote, and repeal and replace, quote-unquote, and get down to what is it specifically within the health insurance markets that we can do to bring down costs for those people who don't have insurance at work? And more importantly, what can we do to bring down health care costs generally? Obamacare, I used to make the joke that the Missouri Tigers quit winning their football team because of Obamacare. Because everything wrong with the health care system got laid at the feet of Obamacare, when in reality, there's a lot of problems out there that are causing higher costs that have nothing to do with the Obamacare law, the Affordable Care Act.

And we've got to look at those. The pharmaceutical prices, we've got to look at why we reward quantity, not quality, why we do fee-for-services rather than focusing on a continuum of care that allows us to save money. All of those things are things we've got to tackle, and we've got to quit playing politics with it. Everybody's been wanting to win elections with health care issues. We need to quit trying to win elections with health care issues. And that's when people really start nodding and applauding, because they do feel that

they're getting whipsawed on the topic of health care. Senator, just to wrap up, do you think that liberals need their own Breitbart to say that Cory Gardner tried to kill you with his car? Do you think that's a sort of political liability that we don't have that? No. First of all, we are not going to try to be Breitbart. I just am going to put my foot down. We're not going to do it. We're not going to model that be Breitbart. I just am going to put my foot down. We're not going to do it. We agree. We're not going to model that bad behavior. He wasn't trying to hit me.

In fact, I wouldn't have even teased him about it, except he's the one that stopped and rolled down the window and said, Honest, Claire, I wasn't going to hit you. I don't know if you're up for 2017 politics. You gave in too easily. By the way, I do think that's kind of one of the things that's going on out there. I think all this negativity, people are worn out by the drama and the negativity. We sure are. I think they're looking for a comfortable pair of old slippers, and I'm happy to be that comfortable pair of old slippers.

That's the best slogan in 2016. And maybe a name for an episode. Claire McCaskill, thank you so much for joining us. Please come back again soon. It was great talking to you Thanks so much guys Take care Senator Bye bye On the pod with us today

The host of Pod Save the People DeRay McKesson DeRay, how are you? Hey guys, it's good to be here I'm good, how are you guys doing?esson. DeRay, how are you? Hey, guys. It's good to be here. I'm good. How are you guys doing? Not too bad. DeRay, I'm okay.

I'm still waiting for my ugly Christmas romp to arrive. Hanukkah. Is it like delayed or something? You know what? Honestly, I don't know.

I don't know. I'm also not totally sure that you ordered the one you were supposed to order, but we can talk about that. DeRay, who's on the show this week?

We have Glenn, and Glenn's talking about Close Rikers. So there's a lot about the Close Rikers campaign that you probably don't know, but you know a little bit about it because of Kalief Broder. But he is such a thoughtful leader

in this space, and we have a great conversation coming up. So he is tomorrow. Tell us a little bit about that campaign, just so for all of the listeners of Pod Save America who may not know much about the campaign rikers big jail new york city deplorable conditions kalit brada the most notable story that came out like the most famous story that came out recently and they're trying to close it so there's a study that says that it can be closed in a decade and and de Blasio is on board with closing in a decade. There are people who are pushing to close it in less than a decade. And New York City has historic is sort of wild. So New York's crime is on a downward trend, but Rikers is still full of so many people, and it's such a bad place for everybody who's there. So we talk about the

campaign, what it means to close in less than a decade, and what the issues are. That's great. Also, when we were figuring out what to talk about today, you sent us a New York Times story that I think is pretty fascinating and troubling. When unpaid student loan bills mean you can no longer work. So this is about this trend here as debt levels are rising among college graduates that as they can't pay their bills, they're losing their licenses, they're having trouble working. Talk a little bit about this story, which is just awful. Hey, you did a good overview. I'm fascinated by it because in the last week's pod, it was a conversation with Marissa who talked about the racial wealth gap. And you think about

that black people in 2053 will have zero dollars of their median wealth, which is wild, is that this is a really interesting way that people are also penalized for being poor, is that there are 22 states where there's some sort of loss of ID or jobs if you default on your student loans. And, you know, I still have a lot to pay in my student loans. And why is that even a practice? But these are the things that people don't realize are happening that we can do something about. So we organize mostly around, like, the big things, like, you know, when Trump tweets or like broken bodies, but these are the things that are like really subtle that have a huge impact of like you defaulting your loans, like you need a job so you could eventually pay off your loans. It makes no sense that you

are losing that job. Like you lose your driver's license, which is like the way that you can get to the job. Like that doesn't make sense from a policy perspective either. Yeah, I was really glad you flagged this one, Dereb. It seems like in any rational world where politics was not entirely partisan and made sense, you would think that we could come together and fix laws that make it harder for people in debt to work. I thought that was a conservative principle to push people into work at all times, at all costs, so they can pay their bills. But this seems completely counterintuitive. And it's's like who has a lobby that's bigger right is that like

you know these people the debt collectors probably lobbied the heck out of this so that there could be like quote real penalties and it's like the consequence for people is so huge it's like how do we build a lobby big enough to lobby for the people. Yeah. It also, I read it and it made me even angrier about this tax cut bill that we're like, you know, we can somehow find $1.5 trillion that we're adding to the deficit to give

tax breaks to rich people. We're going to increase taxes on middle class people, at least in the House bill, increase taxes on graduate students. And also Trump, you know, has tried to undo all the changes that Obama made to make it easier to pay off your student loans, right? And all this stuff just gets sort of swept under the radar. It's never about money. You know, Trump gave $700 billion to the military. That is wild. You know, it would only take $125 billion to take everybody who's below the poverty line at least up to it.

But it's never been a question about money. It's always been a question about priorities and will. That's right. Everyone should read this story. And, you know, when you're reading headlines about a tax bill and you think it's really boring, make the connection to stories like this. Because, you know, it's all of a piece. And we need to fight it all at once. DeRay, thanks for joining us and hope you have a good Thanksgiving.

We'll talk to you next week. I'll talk to you if you get a romp him. Not just a romp him, the holiday edition. Yeah, I got the Hanukkah one. You get whatever one makes sense for you. You're on your journey in the romp him space. Alright. Talk to you guys later.

What should my occupation be in my donation form for Doug Jones? Mogul. I actually type mogul and delete it. I mean it is. Straight shooter. I feel like you can't be jokey I'm going to say. Oh anyway. This is the outro guys. We're in it is. Straight shooter. Straight shooter. I feel like you can't be jokey, I'm going to say.

Oh, anyway. This is the outro, guys. We're in it. We're in it. We're recording. We're recording that. I'm going to say media titan, just to be accurate. Employer.

Crooked media. There you go. All right. Cool. It's real. It's weird putting crooked media as an employer. It's a real thing. You know what's weird?

Filling out forms. You're like, what is your job? And I instinctively want to write writer. Then I cross that out and write, that's the old economy. Why I write by John Lovett. No, no. I'm a writer. No, I was a writer for years.

I was a paid television writer. I am a writer. You definitely said you were a writer for years. I mean, I tried to write. The point is, I'm not bragging. I'm not bragging about it.

2015 came and went. I'm at the dermatologist and says, what's your job? I used to write writer. That made a ton of sense. It was true when I was a speech writer. It was true when I was a TV writer. And now I instinctively write writer. But I'm not a writer.

We're this. Whatever this is. Anyway, thanks to Senator Claire McCaskill and DeRay McKesson for joining us today. And Dan and I are going to record our Thanksgiving episode tomorrow, Tuesday. So, late Tuesday we're recording the episode so look for lots of news loose on Wednesday

before the thing comes out on Thursday. And the Love It or Leave It Thanksgiving episode that I recorded in New York at the Beacon, the second Beacon show,

that's coming out this weekend. What a treat that is. And I've got to get my shit together and try to record an episode for this week. I just sort of looked at you because I didn't know

if we were supposed to say it. Yeah, no, I'm on the spot now. Thank you. You better report a pot to save the world. You better. The world is at stake. All right, guys. We'll talk to you soon.

Bye. Bye. Bye. I love Luca.