Pod Save America - "The GOP's One-Man Ban."

Episode Date: September 15, 2022

Republicans propose a nationwide abortion ban, MAGA candidates win the year’s final primaries in New Hampshire, and a Republican political stunt fails when Massachusetts residents rally behind a group of immigrants sent there by Ron Desantis. Then Senator Maggie Hassan stops by to talk about her race against MAGA candidate Don Bolduc, and later Jon defends his title as the reigning champion of Two Takes and a Fake. 

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, Republicans propose a nationwide abortion ban. MAGA Republicans win the year's final primaries in New Hampshire, where conspiracy theorist Don Bolduc will face Senator Maggie Hassan, who will be talking to Dan a little bit later in the show. Then, Dan gets the chance to compete against the reigning champion of Two Takes and a Fake, me. Congratulations.

Aren't you excited? For your one point victory in a three person game. Before we get started, Love It or Leave It has some great live shows coming up. Love It and Friends will be in Pittsburgh on October 5th, Baltimore on October 7th, and Philadelphia on October 8th. Get your tickets to these shows and more at crooked.com slash events.

Go check it out. Love it's hitting the road. All right, let's get to the news. With less than 60 days till the midterms, Republicans in Congress have introduced legislation that would institute a nationwide ban on abortions after 15 weeks of pregnancy. Senator Lindsey Graham's bill would do nothing to protect abortion access before 15 weeks of pregnancy. Senator Lindsey Graham's bill would do nothing to protect abortion access before 15 weeks and in fact would allow states to ban abortion completely.

The proposal divided Republican politicians. Some are supporting it. Some are saying they want a full ban. And Mitch McConnell said that most Republican senators would, quote, prefer this be dealt with at the state level. Yeah, I'm sure he I'm sure he hopes that. But even though that's what Mitch McConnell said, here's what Lindsey Graham said about his bill. So I look forward to the debate. I look forward to the vote. If we take back the House and the Senate, I can assure you we'll have a vote on our bill. If the Democrats are in charge, I don't know if we'll ever, ever vote on our bill.

What do you think, Dan? Should Democrats just put a bunch of money behind that clip and run it as an ad for the midterms? Most of what Lindsey Graham says is like obsequious word salad, but this is a crystal clear delineation of the stakes in this election. If you give the Republicans the majority, they will pass a federal abortion ban. If the Democrats stay in control, there will be no federal abortion ban. In fact, Democrats, if we were to get 52 votes we need, will come together to abolish a filibuster to codify Roe v. Wade and protect abortion access in this country. Thank you, Lindsey Graham. You have now advanced to being

a professional pundit because you have figured this election out. have now advanced to being a professional pundit because you have figured this election out i like yeah like we can we're about to uh sort of debate the wisdom of this legislation for him to just go out there and say that line and draw the distinction that clearly that is that is something special from lindsey graham i will tell you that um all right so graham pitched this as a political solution which is exactly i mean it's it's it's all politics there's no way this thing becomes law in the current political environment um with joe biden as president as long as joe biden is president there's no way this thing becomes law so it's a purely a political thing uh and he pitched it as a political solution for republican candidates who've been losing support over the party's extreme position on abortion in the wake of Dobbs.

What was Lindsey Graham thinking here? And we should say that one of the responses from one of the Republican senators, Shelley Moore Capito, from West Virginia. She said, I don't know what he was thinking there. But maybe you can delve into the mind of Lindsey Graham and help us figure out what he was thinking. Let me try to walk a mile in Lindsey Graham's shoes for the benefit of this podcast, because it's all about the content, as Elijah would say. Exactly. I would say that this is very much for like when we work for President Obama where he

would constantly in his sort of Socratic law professor method of meetings, which you'd find yourself arguing. He'd be like, well, what were they thinking? And all of a sudden you're answering that question. You're like, why am I arguing Lindsey Graham's case? But you put me in that position. So I will do that. This is I'm putting you here.

Yeah, there you put me in that position. So I will do that. This is I'm putting you here. Yeah, there you go. Reason one for doing this in Lindsey Graham's mind is it gets him attention. And Sunday show bookings are what gets Lindsey Graham up in the morning. So there's that from a political. That's a personal vision for the political reason. The argument really for Republicans would be. And it's not a good argument. I am not defending it. Does it make sense? and it's not a good argument i am not defending

it doesn't make sense but it's okay it's okay you get your caveat in it well i mean any anti-abortion dan pfeiffer goes off on a on an anti-abortion i never know what's going to end up on social from this company dan pfeiffer defends lindsey graham, so that's what I, with every 15 seconds, I have to offer a caveat to ensure that. Okay. Anyway, Republicans know that if you can shift the conversation to a ban after a certain period of time, that is more popular than a complete ban and certainly complete ban with no exceptions, which is what is happening in states all across this country. And there is polling that suggests that a 15-week ban is much more popular than the standard Republican position.

So ideally what he's trying to do is get all Republicans to be on board with this theoretically surface-level more popular position. There is a problem with it. Just substantively, it does not deal with all of the major problems of the full abortion ban Republicans have. It is obviously a proposal put forward by people who think they know better than people who actually have to give birth in this country. Because 15 weeks, and this bill has almost no exceptions for health of the mother and viability, is that in most cases, you are not going to know about the viability of the pregnancy until after 15 weeks. It's usually closer to around 20 weeks when they can look at the anatomy.

And so what Lindsey Graham and Republicans are doing is saying that we will force women in this country to carry two-term unviable pregnancies at the risk of their health, because we think we know better. That is what he is suggesting here. And in fact, in that press conference, after Graham set up the stakes of the election quite well, a woman asked him a question and shared her story of when she found out after 15 weeks that she would not have a viable pregnancy, that there were fetal abnormalities, and had to go through the grueling experience of giving birth to that child that died shortly afterwards, which is what the doctors told her would probably happen. And yes, you know, 90 something percent of all abortions happen before 13 weeks. But as you point out, the abortions that happen after 15 weeks, after 20 weeks,

are a lot of them have to do with fetal viability that risks the life of the baby if the baby is born or the health of the mother and you know lindsey graham is saying in this bill that there's an exception for the life of the mother but there's not an exception for the health of the mother and doctors have been forced in a lot of these states with bans already to have to sit there and be like, well, can I perform this abortion? Because, you know, is the woman really in danger of dying? Or could I give her another blood transfusion? I mean, it is like the decisions that they are, that the politicians are forcing on doctors and women. It is fucking crazy. And when you sit there and you pick out 15 weeks because of the way that a polling question is worded, where like if you worded

another way, you get a different result. I mean, it's just, it's so gross to try to legislate based on what is theoretically popular or unpopular based on the wording of a polling question and not the science involved in the medical science involved in what doctors know about pregnancy and what women know about their own bodies. I mean, it's wild. It's wild. So the problem, let's talk about the political problem with what Lindsey Graham has done here, since we've now talked about the problem with the actual legislation. Republicans are split and they're all over the map on this. So no one was asking for this. No Republican was really asking for this. think like, it seems like voters just aren't going to trust Republicans to make decisions about abortion because it's pretty clear that most of them want to ban it completely. What do you think about that?

Yeah, that's absolutely right. I think the Republican challenge here that Lindsey Graham has forced upon them is sort of best embodied by the fact that Blake Masters, the right-wing extremist running for Senate in Arizona, supports Lindsey Graham's bill, but his campaign spokesperson in a since-deleted tweet tweeted, why, why, why, about the news that Graham was endorsing this bill. This is exactly right. Democrats and activists around this country have done an incredible job of making sure that abortion has stayed at the center of this election ever since the Dobbs opinion leaked many months ago. In a nation of short attention spans, it is, quite frankly, it speaks to the

power of the issue, how motivated people are about it, that it has remained the center of this campaign. And at the exact moment where Republicans are trying to shift the focus to something else, Lindsey Graham walks onto a stage and says, just in case you were wondering, abortion is on the ballot this fall. And it has put Republicans in a very difficult position because you have to answer the question. You keep it in the news. You force them to make decisions between activists and the hard right MAGA extremist activists and the overwhelming majority of voters. activists and the overwhelming majority of voters. And the grand bill is a sign of just how extreme Republicans are, but it's also a political gift to Democrats that we absolutely have to take. I also think that because of some of these bans in states now, voters have heard too many horror stories about the grueling and painful decisions that women have had to make. And those stories have made it more obvious to people that politicians should not play a role in the decisions that women make about their health care during a pregnancy. There's new polling out this morning.

This is a SurveyMonkey poll, 20,000 adults. It's quite a big poll. Seven in 10 Americans don't think politicians are informed enough about abortion to create fair policies. No shit. don't think politicians are informed enough about abortion to create fair policies no shit you read you read that you read that poll result and you just see lindsey graham in your mind and how he just like stumbled into this fucking thing it's like yeah this is exactly why they believe that because of they believe that because of how republicans have responded to dobbs over the last several months which is fucking all over the map and in an extreme way. Also, who are the people, the 30% who thinks politicians should make that,

are informed enough to make that decision? Have you seen Congress? It's a medical decision, a personal medical decision, right? Like why would you want some Yahoo senator who happens to get a majority of the vote in a polarized state? It's like like it's insane. I mean, the thing to know about Lindsey Graham to always remember is that he is more shameless and opportunistic than you think he is. And he's not as smart as Lindsey Graham thinks he is. Right. Like that is that like that is that is how you end up in this situation. That is how you end up in this situation. And of course, we don't know for sure how the politics of Graham's bill will play out. But we have a hint because Graham's position was basically the anti-abortion position in Kansas when ads saying, we only want the legislature to enact common sense restrictions on abortion. We're not trying to end abortion. They basically were with the Lindsey Graham position, right? Lindsey Graham and some of these Republicans now think if they can be for common sense restrictions on abortion, then that's going to be the middle

ground. But that was the position of the anti-choice side in Kansas, and they lost overwhelmingly. So we've already seen some evidence of how this is going to go. Also, the fact that Mitch McConnell has walked away from it is a pretty good sign about what he thinks the politics are, because Mitch McConnell supports a federal abortion ban that has been one of his lifelong goals. And the fact that he is now saying, oh, no, it should be an issue for the state is a sign that he thinks what Lindsey Graham did is absolutely miserable politics. And the question among all these things is, are Republicans going to get away with it? And the answer is, I don't know. They will only

get away with it if we let them get away with it. So it's ultimately up to Democrats and all of us to keep this issue, the stakes in this election front and center for the next 50 some days. If you're running a Democratic campaign, how does Graham's ban factor into your strategy? Say you got a Republican opponent like a Blake Masters or a Dr. Oz, who's been trying to present themselves as more moderate on the issue of abortion? Well, I think the first step goes beyond Lindsey Graham's span, which is you hold them to account for their more extreme previous position, and you never let that go. And you hammer it and hammer it and hammer it. And then you just use Lindsey Graham as another piece of evidence, along with Mitch McConnell's statement months ago, along with what a lot of these candidates said, along with Kevin

McCarthy's statement, that if Republicans take control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, they will pass a federal abortion ban. So it won't matter whether you live in a blue state or a red state or a purple state. It won't matter if you win the governor's race or the state legislatures. Politicians like Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham will make these decisions for you. And that is the center of this election. And then you can take that out to all the other issues on which Republicans are overly extreme and out of touch with American people, from marriage equality to contraception to what books you can read and on and on and on. Yeah, marriage equality, where it looks right

before this recording as if they're not going to find the 10 Republican votes and they want to maybe punt it until the lame duck session after the midterms because they don't think they can get 10 Republicans. Who wants to punt it? Democrats? No, no. Like the Republicans are saying, oh, we should just push it. We should just push it because we're not going to because basically they're saying they're not going to vote. going to vote. They're not going to give them the vote. And it's not that they can't find the 10 Republicans. They could find the 10 Republicans if they wanted to, but they know that the right-wing extremists who fuel their campaigns or the foot soldiers in Republican campaigns will go fucking bananas if they had the audacity to suggest that people get to love who they want to love and marry who they want to love. And so they don't want to answer this question now because they worry it's going to cause their base to demobilize. Well, enjoy the vote because you're

going to have to vote on it. All right. So the final primaries of the year were on Tuesday in Delaware, Rhode Island and New Hampshire, where once again, the nuttiest MAGA politicians came out on top. The Republican nominee for Senate in New Hampshire is a guy named Don Bolduc, who thinks Trump won the election, called New Hampshire's Republican governor a Chinese communist sympathizer, has proposed abolishing the FBI because of Mar-a-Lago, and wants to repeal the 17th Amendment, which allows people to elect their U.S. senators, which again is the position he's running for, his senator. Was Kayleigh McEnany's former press assistant, Caroline Leavitt, an anti-vax election denier

who beat a Kevin McCarthy endorsed candidate in the Republican primary for New Hampshire's first congressional district. Dan, what do you think? How much damage did Republicans do to their general elections chances here in New Hampshire? Well, they certainly made their chances worse. I think that is safe to say.

But we just have to always remember that in narrow battleground states like New Hampshire, we are operating within a very narrow band, right? There is, yes, their chances of winning may have gone down a little bit, but they're still pretty damn good. And that was true in Arizona, whether they nominated Blake Masters or Mark Brnovich. It's true in all of these, you know, Pennsylvania, whether it was Oz or McCormick, is they still have a very good chance of winning. And it's very possible that Don Boldek could win and that Kayleigh McEnany's 25-year-old proudly unvaccinated assistant who defeated a Kevin McCarthy endorsed State Department employee could also win. Like that is within our possibility. It's worth remembering that while New Hampshire was not one of the battleground states that we focus a ton of time on in 2020, Maggie Hassan won by less than 2,000 votes in 2016.

So this is going to be a very close race, no matter which lunatic the Republicans nominate. Yeah, the good news is Hassan's got a ton of money. Bolduc has little as of now, but the cavalry could come in there. You know, and she's gonna she's, she'll also be able to run some really fun ads against Don Bolduc, like, you know, that show maybe the New Hampshire's very popular Republican governor calling him an extreme conspiracy theorist and saying he's not a serious candidate. Call them a Chinese communist sympathizer.

Well, no, I'm saying that, but yeah, that's, no, Bolduc called Sununu a Chinese communist. Sununu called Bolduc a conspiracy theorist. Although Sununu said that he's probably, after saying I would never endorse him now, is saying I think maybe I'll endorse him yeah and the and mitch mcconnell and mike pence have already pledged to put money into this campaign all the republican super PACs are going to spend money it doesn't they they like to clutch their pearls before the primary but then afterwards they get

fully on board with no matter how dangerous the kid is we're seeing the same thing in pennsylvania with doug masterado so this will be a fully funded, well-organized campaign. Speaking of dangerous, Bulldog told the New Yorker last year he thinks there's a role for the military to play if Trump tries another coup. On Trump's side, obviously, right? On Trump's side. Yeah. I thought maybe he was supporting saying the National Guard to protect the Capitol. Yeah, no, no, no, no. He's like, if there's another quote unquote stolen election, of course the military might have a role to, no, no, no. He's like, if there's another, quote unquote, stolen election, of course, the military might have a role to play. So that's great.

He's already trying to backtrack, though. Today, Baldick said he's now saying the election wasn't stolen, even though he said in the past that it absolutely was stolen. Was he winking while he said that? And that Joe Biden wasn't the rightful president. And he also said that he wouldn't back Lindseyindsey graham's abortion ban he's also someone he's already he's trying to uh he's he's he's trying just like the rest of them he's trying to etch a sketch his way back to the middle oh god romnesia yeah just just a 10 year old esoteric political illusion

for nerds of a certain generation. I'm very interested to see who gets that reference. Who wasn't on our payroll? Kaylee McEnany's former assistant here. Chris Pappas is the Democrat. She's running against the house member. He was out. He tweeted this morning. She supports banning abortion.

She wants to write the bill to privatize social security. And she wants to repeal the Affordable Care Act, too. So she's got some problems with her positions as well. Yeah, it seems not great, I'll be honest. I mean, look, these are going to be two really, really tough races. We are fortunate in our opponents. They're not in the bag, by such an imagination. A lot of work is going to have to be done.

But our chances of winning a House seat, we need to win to keep the majority in the Senate seat. We need to keep the Senate and have any chance of expanding that majority of 52 are a little bit better today than they were on Monday. The Senate Democratic campaign pack spent some money attacking Bolduc's opponent, Chuck Morse, as another sleazy politician with ties to lobbyists and Mitch McConnell. So this is another instance where Democrats intervened in this primary. How are you feeling about that strategy and how it played out in New Hampshire? It works perfectly and I've never criticized it. Look, this is one of those issues where people have really, really strong opinions about whether

it is the worst thing that's ever happened or a bit of strategic brilliance. And I just think it's more complicated to nuance. We should be very clear. We have a better chance of holding the Senate because Don Bolduc is the nominee. That is a fact. History shows it. Polling shows it. Common sense shows it. More extreme candidates tend to lose, and I think they're much more likely to lose against an avowed moderate with bipartisan credentials like Maggie Hessen. It's hard to know how much impact that money actually had. These MAGA candidates are winning pretty easily, or Democrats just pushing on an open door here. just pushing on an open door here. Is this the best use of money? Probably not.

You know, in the world list of things we could be spending money on. But the one thing I cannot stand is a bunch of pearl clutching from reporters and pundits about how unseemly this is. You know, if this is unseemly, what the fuck is storming the Capitol, right? Like let's not try to equate two things.

And let's also just remember that the true danger to democracy is Mitch McConnell and Kevin McCarthy being charged with a house in the Senate when it comes time to certify the 2024 election. It really doesn't matter whether that 50 Republican senators is like 36% MAGA conspiracy lunacists or 50%. What matters is who has the gavel. So the best way to say, protect democracy, to protect the integrity of the next election, protect every freedom we care about is to keep Republicans out of power. So. Yeah, I really, I'm in the same camp as you. It's funny you said complicated and nuanced. Axelrod asked me about that because I was on Hacks on Tap this week, one of my favorite podcasts. Of course. And Ax asked about this because I know Ax feels very strongly about it as well. But I think it's circumstance dependent. You know, I think in New Hampshire, and it's also how you do it, right? A Senate Democratic PAC running ads against Chuck Morse as another sleazy politician a couple months before an election where Chuck Morse easily could have been the nominee is pretty standard fare.

Right? Like, if he could have won on Tuesday night, he was pretty close. And if he did, then we'd want to run those same exact ads against him and call him a sleazy politician that was tied to Mitch McConnell and a bunch of lobbyists. And by the way, like you said, if Chuck Morse got to D.C., do we think Chuck Morse would stand up for democracy if, you know, we had a 2020 issue again? You think he'd impeach Donald Trump? Probably not. Probably not. Definitely not. Look, there's only one Mitt Romney, people. And I think maybe if we're trying to find- Take that out of context.

That's fine. I mean, I can do a lot about why Mitt Romney is able to get away with these things. Other people can't. But I think maybe if you're looking for a line of demarcation about how to think about these efforts, it is one thing to run an ad about attacking the potential nominee. But if you attack them as being quote unquote moderate, which we saw happen I think in Colorado where you attack – you're like, this is a moderate anti-Trump. You're then making – that is I think – I'm really not getting into the morality of this because I really don't – it's like in the world in which we're dealing with, this is really low stakes from that point of view. But that is risky because that's going to end up strength. If you bet wrong there, if you make those plays and do not succeed, then the opponent that you did not want is going to be even stronger than you feared were they to win that nomination. feared were they to win that nomination. Looking back at the entire primary season now,

now that it's in the rear view mirror, on the Republican side, whose party is it? Trump's, McConnell's, mix of both? It's definitely not Mitch McConnell's party. It isn't. He is. Doesn't seem like he had a good track record in this primary season. It is very clear that this is a party of MAGA extremism across the board. You can't even really, you can find like a couple of little examples in some house races here or there that have a lot of extenuating circumstances,

but in virtually all of the races that mattered, the MAGA extremist one. And even, you know, I was listening to you and Tommy and Lovett talk about the, you know, the who's to blame, Rick Scott or Mitch McConnell. And I just there's one point of fact, I think it's very important for everyone to know. And it shows up in none of these stories about Mitch McConnell, who's just already shifting blame to everyone else is Mitch McConnell endorsed Hershel Walker. Yeah, that's true.

It wasn't like that Mitch McConnell had his arms around some, you his arms around some you know moderate you know more electable establishment republican he embraced herschel walker knowing everything there was to know about him and that's why herschel walker won easily relative to some of these other places where the mega candidate won pretty easily but not entirely easily because there was an establishment kid on the other side also he, he put Rick Scott in charge of the NRSC. Yeah, that was fucking stupid. So there you go, Mitch. Another sign this is still Trump's party is the grotesque stunt that Ron DeSantis pulled this week.

So apparently, the state of Florida paid for a flight that took men, women, and children who had reportedly fled from a dictatorship in Venezuela. And they paid for this flight that went from San Antonio to Martha's Vineyard. And then DeSantis made sure that the press knew about it so he could show the MAGA base how he owned the libs by sending immigrants to a wealthy liberal island. The people of Martha's Vineyard had no advance notice about this. But as soon as the plane landed and the men, women, and children stepped out of the plane, people on the island immediately responded by offering these families food, clothing, health care, shelter. The whole island pulled together and has really been helping them out.

He really showed us, didn't he, Dan, Ron DeSantis? Look at those hypocritical Massachusetts liberals welcoming immigrants with open arms. mad they're in this country. You can be mad about how they got here, but they are not political fucking props. They're human beings. This is about so much more than Ron DeSantis. It is about the Republican Party in the MAGA era. Everyone involved, the politicians, the operatives, the MAGA media, all agree that being a giant asshole is how you get political power. It's what it is. It's the lesson Donald Trump taught us. It's what Adam Serwer said. The cruelty is the point. It's not just owning the lips, right? It's not just like making fun of people crying because Hillary lost or all of that other stuff. It is about hurting people and showing your base that you are willing

to hurt people on their behalf and to hurt people, immigrants, black people, Muslims, whoever it is. It is about showing that you have what it takes to be cruel, to prevent this country from becoming more diverse, more tolerant, more progressive. And it's so fucking infuriating. Well, it's also it's competitive assholery at this point, right? deteriorating. Well, it's also it's competitive assholery at this point, right? Because you're Ron DeSantis is trying to show that he's more MAGA than Donald Trump. And so you have to continue to outdo your fellow Republicans that you're competing with to show how big of an asshole you can be. And so you continue to do these stunts. But yeah, no, I mean, imagine you flee from a dictatorship, you sacrifice everything, you take your family with you.

And then, you know, reports from on the ground in Martha's Vineyard are these people. They were told when they got on the flight that they were going to go to Boston where there would be jobs and shelter waiting. That's what they were told. They were given they they they didn't eat for a day. They were put on this flight. They weren't told anything. No one in Martha's Vineyard was told this was happening. The plane lands and they just walk off the plane. Imagine you're one of those people, one of those families, and you get off the plane and you

realize at some point that the reason you were sent here is because of a political stunt because some asshole governor figured that other people wouldn't want you where they live so you were sent somewhere else to try to prove a point because other people didn't want you i mean it's just such it's but here's the thing that you point out like it it was done to trigger outrage from liberals this is what and he and he now he's got what he wanted, right, which is everyone being outraged. And I actually think that the the people who acted best in this situation are the people of Martha's Vineyard and the state of Massachusetts and the Republican governor, Charlie Baker, too, which is they didn't even, you know, lash out. They didn't tell the they

just said, you know what? Yeah you you sent a bunch of people to us who really need help and we're going to give them help because those are our values we're going to take them in we're going to give them food we're going to give them shelter and that's that so you send people to us that's what we're going to do because we show compassion and i actually think that's the best way to respond because what they want is for everyone to be fucking triggered by this you know what give them that satisfaction i don. I don't want to give them that satisfaction. I don't want to give them either, but I do think there is some value in screaming about this in particular because a thing that I worry about a lot is that, let's say Trump does not run because he's embroiled,

he's in a prison somewhere or whatever else. There is this sense that anything better than Trump is okay. I was having a conversation with an incredibly anti-Trump former Republican who certainly is more progressive, who is not as conservative as Ron DeSantis, but thinks Ron DeSantis is within the band of pre-Trump normalcy. I was listening to a podcast that Kara Swisher did a long time ago, and she was talking to a big tech guy who's a Republican, an anti-Trump Republican who had worked for Peter Thiel, and he's incredibly pro-DeSantis. And the reason he didn't like Trump were all the things that DeSantis does. And so there's this

world where DeSantis becomes acceptable to a broad swath of people who found Trump abhorrent because he's simply not Trump. And he's actually more dangerous than Trump. And I think there's a real chance that if it's not Donald Trump, Ron DeSantis is by far the most likely person to do the Republican nominee right now. And you can just see a world where they decide, the world decides, the reporters who are yearning to return to pre-Trump both sides-ism think that Ron DeSantis is acceptable. And he is a deeply dangerous, incredibly cruel authoritarian who just tweets less than Donald Trump. That's what we're talking about here. And I think that the best way to treat Ron DeSantis is that it was a gross jv fucking stunt like i think

you know i'm just we we've went through this with donald trump before too and like the more he's the dictator you should all be scared of the better it is for him the more he is the fucking goon who has like no regard not only for most people in this country or immigrants or anyone else but for his own fucking voters and he's just a fucking con man the better off we are and i don't want us to get off on this further understanding he's the yeah he is a gross fucking individual but like the mega assholes online right now are so mad that the people of martha's vineyard welcome these immigrants with open arms and that the stunt didn't work. They're so mad about it.

I think the challenge for Democrats in talking about Republicans is trying to find a way to talk about extremism without making that extremism a proxy for strength. That is one of the mistakes we made with Trump all the time was we sort of followed along and he very cleverly would trigger us in that way about all his authoritarian instincts, like when he would post on Instagram or Twitter, like Trump 2024, 2028, 2032, and all of those

things, like having the convention on the White House lawn in very like North Korea, shades of North Korea there. So you don't want to imbue him with strength because strength is one of the most, you know, it's not healthy, but one of the most persuasive political characteristics. So you have to find a way to talk about extremism that is extremism born from weakness, born from fear. And I think that's how we have to think about Trump and Ron DeSantis. What Ron DeSantis did is fucking cowardly. He's a coward. And it was cheap, too.

And it didn't work. So fuck him. And one more thing, Dan. Lindsey Graham's announcement has come just in time for National Voter Registration Day, which is this Tuesday, September 20th. Everyone should know that Vote Save America is teaming up with our friends at NextGen, who have ways for you to register young voters by joining their call, text and social teams online or a state team in person. So head to VoteSave.us slash NVRD to get involved.

Again, that's VoteSave.us slash NVRD. OK, when we come back, Dan will talk to New Hampshire Senator Maggie Hassan. Joining us now is the Democratic Senator from New Hampshire, Maggie Hassan. Senator Hassan, welcome to Pod Save America. Well, thanks for having me on. It's great to be with you. After Don Bolduc won the primary in your state of New Hampshire on Tuesday, Donald Trump took to Truth Social and wrote the following. Nice! The Trumpiest people all won in New Hampshire last night. Would you like to take a moment and thank former President Trump for this very trenchant observation about your opponent? All I can tell you about my opponent is that he is the most extreme candidate for the United States Senate that we have seen in decades. Don Baldock would be a yes vote for a national abortion ban.

Having said we should rejoice, that was his word when Roe v. Wade was overturned. He would like to eliminate Social Security, make drastic cuts to Medicare, is an election denier and open to abolishing the FBI. So I will be making the case about the choice in this election. I think we need an economy that works for everybody. And I have a record of delivering bipartisan results to the people of New Hampshire on the things they care about. And I will be working to make the choice in this election very, very clear to folks. So you mentioned some of Boldik's, I would say, unique opinions, like abolishing the FBI, but those are not his only unique opinions. So I thought maybe we could just go through some of them now that you guys are facing off and just maybe get your take on them and see if it gets you on the record on these sorts of things. Okay. So first, do you agree with Don

Bolduc that we should abolish popular elections for US senators and simply have state legislators pick them? Obviously, I would disagree with that heartily. Look, New Hampshire is the first in the nation primary. And we're first in the nation primary, and we're first in the nation because we actually were the ones who had the idea that regular citizens should be engaged in electing their presidents as well as members of Congress. So the idea that somebody running for U.S. Senate in New Hampshire would try to take away that right of direct involvement in Senate elections is astonishing. I would take it, I won't make you go through all of these, but I would take it you will probably also disagree that Governor Chris Sununu is a Chinese communist sympathizer,

and that Bill Gates is trying to implant microchips via the COVID vaccine. Opinions offered by your opponent during this election? Yeah, he has offered really outrageous opinions, and they are obviously just dramatically out of touch with where Granite Staters are, whether they are Republicans or Democrats or independents. It is astonishing. Having said that, I will let you know that Mike Pence was in the state raising money for him yesterday, and Mitch McConnell is planning to spend $23 million against me in this campaign. So they're all in with Don Bolduc. And it's just going to be a really, really close and tough campaign. It's also my understanding Don Bolduc has been a, has pushed the big lie, his question, the legitimacy of the 2020 election, but he's already beginning the process of trying to erase some of these extreme positions. He came out, I think, this morning and said that he now thinks Joe Biden won the election. I imagine that you're

not going to let him get away with this sort of, you know, quote unquote, etch a sketch of his extreme record. Right. Nobody should be fooled by what Don Bolduc said this morning. He is an election denier. He has been traveling around our state for over a year now, spreading the big lie. On the debate stage in the Republican primary in August, he promoted the big lie again, saying the election was stolen, and went as far too as to say that should the results of the 2024 election be different than the ones he wants, he would work to overturn the election. So this is an election denier. This is somebody who would undermine our democracy.

And at a time when what I hear from my constituents, which is that they want us to work together the way people in New Hampshire do, to actually lower costs and do things like bring American manufacturing back home like we did in the Chips and Science Act. They want us to help address now. We've worked on prescription drugs, lowering those costs, energy, lowering those costs. We're taking on climate change, but we still got work to do on things like housing and childcare costs. They want us

to work together and get these things done. And instead, Don Bolduc just wants to pull us backward, whether it's abortion, whether it's eliminating social security, whether it's denying the election and undermining our democracy. So I will say to folks, if you're interested in learning more about my record and my campaign and how you can help, please go to MaggieHassan.com. We'd love to have people involved. You can tell you have a very talented politician who gets the website in before I even asked the question about the website. So very, very good. I'm sure your campaign team will be very pleased with that. A lot of people, you've mentioned bipartisanship several times in this interview. A lot of people think, particularly in the wake of the 2020

election, that bipartisanship would be dead. The Republican Party is in the thrall of Donald Trump and a bunch of MAGA extremists. Most of them are election deniers. Many of your Republican colleagues in the Senate are election deniers. But according to the Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Policy, you ranked as the most bipartisan senator of 2021 and the most bipartisan Democratic senator in nearly the 30 years they've been collecting data. How were you able to work across the aisle to get something done in what might be the most polarizing, divisive political environment we've had in a very long time? I look to the example that my constituents set. New Hampshire is 30% Democrats, 30% Republicans, 40% independents. As you know, we are the live free or die state. And we take that sentiment to heart. We really revel in our ability to

speak our minds freely and openly and have vigorous disagreements. But then after we do, we sit down and figure out how to solve problems and move the ball forward, because we know moving forward is really, really important. And so I try to take that example. I also am usually pretty confident that my Republican colleagues are hearing about some of the same things from their constituents that I'm hearing about from mine. A great example of that is surprise medical bills. I worked with Bill Cassidy from Louisiana to ban that practice. That's another way of lowering people's healthcare costs, right? And that bill, which went into effect in January, has now prevented 2 million plus surprise medical bills from being delivered to people. That's because Bill was hearing the same thing as I was. And if you can keep the

temperature lower and just keep talking to each other, you can get some of these things done. And I think it's also a really important reminder to people that while there's a lot of coverage of the polarization, we passed a bipartisan infrastructure bill that I was happy to help negotiate. We did bipartisan post office reform. We did a bipartisan bill to help our veterans get the health care they need finally for toxic exposures. We did the bipartisan gun safety act. And then we did the bipartisan chips and science act, which I was one of the original sponsors of, which is bringing manufacturing back home, helping us with our supply chain challenges, lowering our costs by increasing the supply of semiconductors, among other things, helping us with our supply chain challenges, lowering our costs by increasing the supply of semiconductors, among other things, helping us out-compete countries like China, and bolstering

our national security. So those are the things we have been able to do. And I think it's a real testament to those of us in the Senate, both parties, who do know that you have to keep working just the way your constituents do. Do you think there are, even though we are getting pretty close to the election year, do you think there are prospects for other pieces of bipartisan legislation this fall, maybe electoral counts act reform or enshrining marriage equality? I am hopeful, you know, that often you don't know whether these things are going to come together until kind of all of a sudden they do. And that has to do with a lot of different factors. We're obviously getting close to the election. But at the end of the day, I know how important

it is to the American people and to our democracy that we move forward here. You know, we talked about the fact that I'm running against an election denier, but Mitch McConnell and Mike Pence seem to be all in with that. Because, among other things, I won this seat in 2016 by only 1,017 votes, unseating a Republican. So they want the seat back, right? They're coming after it really, really hard. Right. They're coming after it really, really hard. A lot of things are at stake. Everything from a woman's right to make her own decisions and be a full citizen in the democracy to climate and a bunch of other things. But I do know that democracy is on the ballot, too. And I think it's really important for all of us just to keep focused on that. And I think one of the things bipartisan accomplishments really help people understand is that their voice and their votes matter, and that democracy can

deliver when they exercise them. And that's also what's on the ballot this fall. You've mentioned abortion several times, your opponent's extreme views on abortion, it being a driving force in this election. Earlier this week, Senator Lindsey Graham proposed a federal ban on abortions after 15 weeks. I want to get your reaction to that bill and what that maybe says about the dangers of a Republican Senate, were they to take over the Senate? Yeah, I want people to be really clear here that a national abortion ban is on the ballot in November. McConnell has been pursuing this for decades. Mike Pence supports a national abortion ban, I think said within the last week or so that he wanted the anti-choice forces to double down on achieving a national abortion ban. My opponent has said that

New Hampshire's abortion ban, which the Republicans just passed last year, doesn't go far enough and that he would never vote against anti-choice legislation in Washington. It is astonishing to me that anybody seeking to represent citizens in Congress at the same time wants to take away the rights of half of the people they would represent. This is about whether in the world's greatest democracy, women are going to be second class citizens or not. And I will continue to make the case wherever I am in New Hampshire that, and I'm hearing about it from people in New Hampshire, all over the state, all political backgrounds. This is a really serious moment for democracy

because taking away rights from women from half the population undermines the democracy in significant ways, as does things like election denial. So democracy is on the ballot, a woman's health and safety and full citizenship is on the ballot. Another, you know, according to polls, central concern for a lot of voters is inflation. While gas prices have been going down for months now, we got a report out this week that inflation still remains frustratingly high. Can you talk a little bit about what you want to do in addition to the Inflation Reduction Act to lower inflation and what if you get reelected, Democrats back in the Senate, what you're thinking would be the next sort of steps here to lower costs for consumers? Yeah, no, there's a number of things. I'll start by just saying I continue to push

for a suspension of the federal gas tax. That puts some more money in people's pockets and just really lets people know that we are taking short-term steps as well as the long-term steps, because the Inflation Reduction Act is one of the things that we've done. But the Chips and Science Act is one of the other measures we've taken that really goes after inflation in some longer-term ways. But in addition to the gas tax suspension, I think the administration can take steps to help New Englanders and other people in cold climates afford to heat their homes this winter. That's one of the key issues that I'm hearing about from people in New Hampshire, because our energy prices have just gone way up. And there are measures that the administration could take to help with that.

The other things that I think are beginning, we're really beginning to see drive inflation are housing costs and childcare costs too. In New Hampshire, we have a real housing shortage. Our vacancy rate is only about 0.5% and a healthy market is about 5% vacancy. And so rents are being raised, people are really worried about being able to stay in their homes. So it's well past time that we increased investments in the low and moderate income housing tax credit, which funds most of the low and moderate income housing that we build in this country. But I've also got a bill that will help state housing finance agencies get more workforce housing in towns throughout their states, along with trying to establish and support and fund eviction mediation programs,

which are critically important because often people lose their homes because of a small shortage in their rent payment. And if you can help people mediate that, you can really slow down the churn that eviction causes. So there's short-term things, long-term things, but housing is just a huge part of this. So is childcare, obviously. But housing is just a huge part of this. So is child care, obviously. And last thing I'll say, somewhere around 6 million Americans tell us that they would be back in the workforce if they could have help with caregiving responsibilities for a loved one who is aging or has a disability.

So getting our home and community-based care system in shape and expanding access to it and paying people who provide home care, family-sustaining wage is really, really an important piece of expanding our workforce to really fight inflation, but also help people earn a living and pay their bills. Senator Maggie Hassan, thank you so much for joining us. And just to all of our listeners out there, do not take this race for granted. New Hampshire was always very close. It was very close in 2016, and it is going to be close again. So please, if you can, look for a way to help Senator Maggie Hassan beat yet another MAGA extremist, expiring insurrectionist, etc.

Thank you so much, Senator. Thanks so much, Dan. Be safe. Take care. All right, we're back before we go. You know, we played two takes and a fake for Tuesday's pod. The game originated with Dan Pfeiffer. It was Dan's idea right here on a Thursday pod. So we figured we got to let Dan play before we go on to other games. So we're doing one more round here of two takes and a fake to see if Dan can knock off the reigning champion, me. And here we have Elijah Cohn, our chief take officer, who's going to take us through it. Before we get started, as much as I like to get credit for other people's ideas, I would like to just once again state that I basically stole this idea from the Ringer's Fantasy

Football podcast, which does two jargons and a lie. Similar concept. We've adopted it to politics, but they get the original credit. Yeah, well, you get the adaptation credit. So, I mean, no one else brought it to us. I mean, I get more credit than you guys i just don't get all the credit exactly that's insane well i didn't come up with the game yeah i mean two truths and a lie is is an age-old game it's royalty free at this point i mean

they're fantastic i mean they should they should they should have hasn't popped up anywhere okay dan did you have a chance to listen to how it went on Tuesday show? I abs, I absolutely did. Are you intimidated at all going up against the standing champion? I mean, yeah, a little bit. We'll see. I mean, I don't know anyone who consumes more takes than John other than you. So he's hard to beat. He, John went three for three three he identified all the fake ones on tuesday and i will say that in preparation for this one i did a dry run with tommy this morning and he went oh wow three tommy went oh for three okay all right let's see oh no now i'm oh no you're in my head now yeah it's all mind games um so just to recap how it works, I'm going to read you guys three takes. The producers

have seen them. You guys have not. Two of the takes are real. One is fake. You all must decide which take is fake. This game has three rounds across three different topics. You guys ready? So ready. All right. You're well-versed in topic number one. It's Lindsey Graham. So I'm hoping you guys get this one. Obviously, we talked about Lindsey Graham a lot at the beginning of the show. There are a lot of takes about him out there right now. So let's sample a few. Take number one. Lindsey Graham has never been a big pro-life advocate. He wants Republicans to lose. This is sabotage. It's the only way to explain it. That is take number one. Take number two. At the end of the day, Lindsey Graham cares about Lindsey

Graham. It's who he is. It's who he always has been. He wants to be in the spotlight, and this was just a chance for him to do that. Take number three. Advocating for a national abortion ban is more important than any short-term politics. Enthusiasm among pro-life Americans is equal to or greater than any motivation by people that support abortion rights. I should have noted, all of these are from Republicans. So that sabotage point is from a Republican also. Which one is the fake guys? Can you read two and three again? Very seriously.

Yeah, you can't see John is really scrunching his face. He's really thinking there. Take two. At the end of the day, Lindsey Graham cares about Lindsey Graham. It's who he is. It's who he always has been. He wants to be in the spotlight, and this was a chance for him to do that. Take number three, advocating for a national abortion ban is more important than any short-term politics.

Enthusiasm among pro-life Americans is equal to or greater than any motivation by people that support abortion rights. They're thinking. It's audio medium on YouTube. You can see them thinking here. They're really thinking a lot.

I'm going to go with two. What's your reasoning behind that? What sticks out about two? I think it's two on the nose interesting dan i'm gonna i'm gonna go with one two seems like something steve schmidt would say about lindsey graham although and three seems like seems like a take i kind of sort of maybe heard uh i feel like that about three two all right well the champion is off to a strong start two is the fake one yes i mean that's you just basically took a steve schmidt take and made it less pretentious you said i when i started

sweating earlier in the show because i was like, Dan said basically that. So it's my take. Just less clever. It made it less interesting. Great job. All right. I've got one. Oh, one to the the reigning champ.

Who said who said was number was the was number one from Charlie Kirk. It was from Matt Walsh. Actually, Charlie Kirk did weigh in on this. He said it was election interference. What Lindsey Graham was doing doing that's a fucking that would have gotten a thousand i saw that somewhere i think someone on our team gave us that one i think that was in our prep somewhere well that's why i had to take it out swapped in uh oh that was a clip that was andy andy that was a clip that was a potential clip that's what it was okay and take number three uh it being more important than short-term politics, is Mike Pence.

That's where I heard it. I did hear that. Okay. All right. Moving on to our second topic, the culture war. I was texting you guys last night. You guys are not regular soldiers in the culture war. How well-versed are you in the current outrage cycle over black, brown and gay characters in TV and movies?

Yeah, I was saying this yesterday. It's been a busy few weeks with this podcast and Offline in the Wilderness. I have not seen any of these takes so this is going to be a tough one. I did not

even know this was going on yeah dan i don't think the culture wars come from below deck or iron shaft yet so you're look i've caught up i'm caught up on house of dragon i'm aware that there's a lord of the ring show that i have not yet seen i am aware vaguely of the Star Wars S controversy around some of the characters. So let's see what you got here. All right. That's basically where I am too. Yeah.

So all three of these controversies are real. Two of the quotes are real, but one of them is fake. But again, all three of the controversies are real. So controversy number one is around the new little mermaid being black. Here's the take. It's not silly. To be honest with you, it's insulting. How much more of this are we supposed to accept?

A black little mermaid? The woke left is coming for your entire childhood. That is number one. Number two is about non-white actors being cast in the new Lord of the Rings show. It perverts and corrupts Tolkien's medieval universe. They're trying to woke-ify Middle-earth. It threatens the story's believability.

And take number three is about gay parents in the children's show Peppa Pig, which is about animated talking animals. Quote, There's no such thing as lesbian polar bears. If we're worried about the ice caps melting, we definitely don't want to push polar bears to be homosexual. Guys, which one is fake?

I will say that I watch Peppa Pig almost every morning. You do? Do you know about Bluey, by the way? So thank God, finally now we're watching Bluey, which is much better than any of the other children's programs we have watched. I mean, children's programs. Bluey is a top 10 show on global television, hands down. I know.

Like, I actually want to finish Bluey, and sometimes when Charlie runs out of the room to play with trucks, I'm like, I want to know what happens. Now, fortunately, they're pretty short episodes. Seven minutes. Peppa Pig is getting a little... We've seen way too many Peppa Pig episodes now. All right, anywho.

It's weird we're not more fully versed in the culture wars. Dane, you go first this time. You go first. I'm going to go with three, just because I want to live in a world where someone on the crooked staff came up with that take yeah i'm gonna go with one okay and the result is john again he just sniffs out the fake takes i don't know how it's possible um three uh the lesbian polar bears is from ally beth stuckey over at the blaze and the lord of the rings quote is from cnn there are a lot of real little mermaid

takes out there uh matt walsh and the daily wires said a black little mermaid is unscientific and candace owen said a black little mermaid is a mockery. So those takes are out there. I actually watched the Matt Walsh take on video, believe it or not. The leap from Peppa Pig to the lesbian polar bears was just so – it's just too hard to imagine someone coming up with that. I have greater faith in the comedy room at Crooked Media. It's not even comedy. It's just so weird. It is good stuff.

It is quality stuff. Yeah. All right. All right. I've already lost, but let's see if I can salvage some respect here. Just yet another Philadelphia area team losing to a Boston area team. Fucking story of my life.

We can save this one's worth two. I mean, just to add the stakes, to make it. No, no, I know your generation is in participation trophies, but not us kids.

All right. Look, we, I lost. I can take it. Let's move on. All right. Well,

the subject of this next one makes us all lose in a way. It is Mike Lindell. For those of you who are not familiar, Mike Lindell is famous first for creating a pillow company called MyPillow. And then he transitioned into being one of the country's biggest election deniers. This week, he made some news. I believe we have a clip if we want to play that. The FBI came after me and took my phone they surrounded me at a hardy's it's disgusting i don't have a computer everything i do have that phone everything was on there and uh and they told me not to tell anybody importantly he said it's disgusting he

did not mean hardy's he meant the fbi taking his phone we just want to put that out there hardy's is a wonderful place when was the last time you ate at Hardee's? Come on now. Not at all. I'm just trying to be in touch here. I don't think I've ever been to a Hardee's. I made, a hundred years ago on this podcast, remember when Andy Pudzer, I think,

the head of Carl's Jr. was going to become Secretary of Labor briefly? I made some Carl's Jr. jokes on here about it not being good. And boy, there's the Venn diagram of Carl's Jr. fans and positive American listeners circa 2017. Two overlapping circles. People not happy.

Look, I love a fast food chain. I don't think we had any Hardee's in New England. Yeah, and I think we now live in a jack-in-the-box state as opposed to a Hardee's state, I think. Yeah, so there you go. Anyway, Elijah. Go ahead with your takes. So Mike Lindell, his phone has been taken

by the FBI that's exciting can't wait to see what they find on there but I'm guessing people had some takes about this well it was universal laughter Mike Lindell but we decided for this last question we were going to do

two real Mike Lindell quotes and one fake Mike Lindell quote. I like it. I like it. He's got some heaters. Good luck is all I can say. Spotting the fake one. So quote number one, we've been working on a class action lawsuit against all voting

machines. We've got county commissioners and clerks on board as plaintiffs. all voting machines. We've got county commissioners and clerks on board as plaintiffs. It's the most important class action lawsuit in the history of America and in the history of the world. Here's quote number two. The January 6th committee, it's really a deep state operation. I've seen the documents. I'm trying to get copies of the documents and I'll be releasing them hopefully next week. But for Fox News to air any of it, at this point, Fox News is working with the deep state. And here is quote number three. All of our employees are busy making pillows right now for the truckers.

I plan to drop the pillows from a helicopter with little parachutes. I cannot give the exact details or there will be obstructionists. Which one is fake guys you go first this time john i think it i think it has to be three little parachutes and pillows but but if it's not three that's really funny can you read one again oh wait no once once a january 6th committee right no uh two's january 6th committee one is we have a lawsuit against the voting machines he did have a lawsuit against the voting machines he does hate fox he does love pillows um you know what let's go with let's go with two let's go with two dan you should have taken the

two points because you would have tied but dan got one john finally misses five or six two is the perfect record yeah he really really said that little parachute shit. That's amazing. That's amazing. I love that he said that. He's got parachute pillows. Your problem was you got complacent. It's what Pat Riley calls the disease of more.

Happens to a lot of champions. That's okay. I still won. I still won. You did. You did. I'm still the reigning champion. Congratulations.

You know, look, James Naismith clever enough to cut to hang a peach basket probably wasn't pretty good at basketball that's how I feel right now we'll get him next time yeah we'll get him next time thank

you Elijah for those wonderful takes thank you to Senator Maggie Hassan for joining us everyone go have a wonderful week and we'll talk to you next week bye everyone Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production the executive producer week and we'll talk to you next week. Bye everyone.

Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein. Our producers are Olivia Martinez and Haley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerrard, Hallie Kiefer,

Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montuth. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.