Pod Save America - Trump Held a Fair And (Almost) No One Came

Episode Date: June 30, 2026

Trump's "Great American State Fair" draws almost no visitors — except for a MAGA live-streamer who gets arrested for public masturbation. Jon, Tommy, and Lovett react to Fox News's cope-heavy coverage of the fair and then discuss Monday's Supreme Court rulings on independent agencies and mail-in ballots, Trump losing interest in Congress's housing bill, and the momentum Democratic Socialists are feeling after last week's primary wins in New York City. Then, Heather Williams, the president of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, stops by the studio to talk to Jon about building Democratic majorities in state houses across the country.For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast, episode title, and episode date.

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Welcome to Podsafe America. I'm John Favre. I'm John Lovett. I'm Tommy Dutor. On today's show, we got major Supreme Court decisions on mail-in voting and Donald Trump's right to fire agency heads he doesn't like. It's decision time for Trump on the bipartisan housing bill, which he has threatened to hold hostage until the SAVE Act passes.

And Democratic socialists are feeling the momentum after last week's primaries in New York with big primaries in Colorado today. Then Heather Williams, president of the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee, stopped by to talk about breaking Republican trifectas and building Democratic ones in a bunch of key states and how critical it is that you get involved in the down-ballot races happening wherever you are. But let's begin where Trump kicked off his week, posting this at 6.30 a.m. on Monday. Do you think people appreciate what a fantastic job we did in building and operating the Great American State Fair at the National Mall,

packed with happy people and everybody loving it? question mark ask yourself this simple question and now we're in now we're in all caps do you think that obama he wants to say Obama but he spells it obu-u-m-a so it's like oboomma yeah it just looks like a type of i think it's like a bummer right of course but he's short-handed yeah he's not quite getting there do you think that obama or sleepy joe biden could have done it the answer is no president is of course referring to the 16-day exposition on the national mall that will run through July 10th to celebrate America's 250th birthday, an event run by Freedom 250, which is the entity Trump created to compete with America 250, which is the bipartisan entity created by Congress

years ago. Why 16 days? That's such a weird number of days. Yeah, I don't know. Okay. Sorry. It's a good question. It's a good question. I don't have the answer to. Two weeks with an extra weekend. Oh, okay. I guess. Started last week. That's not how weeks really work. Right, but it'll be a set, you because it would be Saturday to a Sunday. Okay, two weeks, two weeks. This is the one thing he got right. I guess. Anyway, the perception that Trump turned America's 250th into a partisan event

caused all the state fair musical acts to drop out, with the exception of Florida and vanilla ice. Ten states have also decided not to participate, and the opening weekend was plagued by extreme heat, rain, power outages, and sparse crowds. You never know this if you listen to Maga World, where everyone thinks it's going great. Happy early birthday America. We're celebrating already at the great American state fair. Man, we've got thousands of people celebrating this birthday with us. If you ever in your wildest dreams think you may be doing your Sunday show from a state fair on the national mall? How great is this?

It's really something. And the weather, not the best today, but people are still coming out. Help me out. I want to be a part of this. Well, it's a great day for it. Larry, good afternoon. Perhaps now the closing bell is here. We're going to get more people coming out here now that work is done.

You mentioned the latest with the Ron. If you look behind us, you see, okay, there are a couple hundred people back there. But the truth is, when you make your way over here and you're in this lot, you're in a wash of people. There's tons of people here. It's a huge space. And it's just going to get more and more pattern as the week goes on. It's a good song. I think we have to give a big round of applause for our military band in singers way better than those libtards that canceled on us.

That was Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy talking about the libtards. What do you guys think? Happy 250th. How are you feeling about the festivities Trump has organized the Freedom 250, America 250 split in the 10 states that aren't participating? I thought the performance by Manny was really good. Do you guys catch that one? Hmm. You didn't see Magamani, the live streamer who jerked off in front of the acrobat troupe.

Oh, we forgot about the guy who jerked off in the Uncle Sam costume. 54-year-old right-wing Magistreamer. Did not think 54 was the number. Arrested by Park Police for masturbating in front of an acrobat troop called the Cirque mechanics. Can you blame them? According to the Independent. Apparently, he was vaping, recording, and then had a hand. through the pocket of the overall.

Wow. So he's holding the vape and the phone. The baby was in the mouth. I was going to say how many appended three there? And then another witness said he came back for round two later. And that's what I think the park police got him. But not bad for 54. That's a good point. Yeah.

I love that it did look, it did look sparse. But now that the closing bell. The traders leaving the floor of the stock exchange, where in D.C.? going to run up to go check out the latest quilting I suppose. Also, there's just something about all the, like, the thing that I was thinking about is watching this over the weekend is just how much, like, the whole MAGA world is online.

It just exists online. It's a bunch of people complaining online, the caricatures of the cities that are going to hell online, just people talking to each other about how America is going down the tubes on the internet and on Fox News. But, like, Larry Cudlow's like, oh, it looks like a, when's the last time Larry Cudlow had a fucking corn dog? When was the last time he walked around to state fair? Like none of these people look like they're at home in a kind of outdoor event with their fellow citizens.

It's so funny that Fox News, State TV decided to go all in on this event. And the net effect is they have to do like sweltering live shots outdoors in front of no one. It's just green fields. And then manny jerking off. I also love that, the comment like, did you ever think you'd be doing your live shot from a state fair? What a hypothetical? Yeah. Who would have thunk it?

But it's just, that's what I mean. it's like these are just people that seem like kind of unfamiliar with the country on some level. Like state bears are great. They're all over the country. There are a lot of difference. Most states, it turns out. Yeah. And you can go.

And there's like actually the news often broadcast from them and tell you about the latest deep fried foods you can get. Like that was the vibe you could have had if this weren't taken over by Trump. Like he took he took something that was bipartisan and a decade in the making. You can actually go online and read what the original plan is. I don't think it would have, you know, what is going to change the country or anything. But it would have been nice. There was like a lot of events happening all across the country. There would have been a kind of a national event for craftmakers.

It would have been big concerts by famous people. There was a lot of money set aside. Trump took that money, gave it to Freedom 250, turned it into a partisan boondoggle, and now nobody's showing up. And for even though it's a 501C3, apparently donors who donate a million dollars or more can secure an invitation to a private reception hosted by Trump himself. There's not a lot of transparency on the finances of Freedom 250. Even though they've taken most of the money that was supposed to go to America 250 from taxpayers.

And we do have some corporate sponsors as well, of course, your Northrop Grummans, your United Health Groups, your SpaceXes. Do you see the little like army, a robot dog kind of marching around like filming people and performing? It's very dystopian. I was, I was, I read Devil on the White City recently. I'm on Eric Larsen kick, which is about the World's Fair and Church. Chicago in 1893, I believe. And that was when the first Ferris wheel was built. And it was this marvel because they were trying to rival the Eiffel Tower and all the Europeans

were like, oh, those Americans, they'll never be able to build a thing. And then we built a Ferris wheel that was basically a steel tower that moved. It was amazing, right? Like America is building an Eiffel Tower, basically the size of Eiffel Tower. And then you would get on it and you would rotate. Freak people to fuck out. And people like tried to jump off it. They were freaking out because like we were saying, you know what?

Eat shit, Europe. We're going to make something awesome. We're going to build skyscrapers. We're going to be a cool country and wait until you see what America's going to do. And now here we are 130 years later. We got this Jagoff, you know, doing his version of a Great American State Fair. Quite literally a jackoff. And with Jaggoffs to spare.

And you see the Ferris wheel was broken for hours because of generator issues. And also there were power outages that spoiled like all the food and melted all the ice cream on the first day. And last minute, vanilla ice canceled because of inclement weather. even though he had previously said rain or shine he was going to be there. Did you read the profile? That doesn't sound like the vanilla ice, I know. Did you read his profile in the Atlantic? No.

It's fascinating. He claims to have performed for the Taliban. Just one little tidbit for you to wet your beak. Go read the rest. Do you remember when he said that, I believe he said that... This is a government where he feels at home then. Yeah. That he's kind of rulers.

That he hadn't taken under pressure. Wasn't that? He had claimed like the vanilla ice thing that he hadn't taken under pressure. There's a great clip where he's like, no, that one's doom, doom, doom, doom doom doom. And mine is, doom, doom, doon, do it. do do that's the same thing pal it's also funny some of them mailed it in like connecticut main i think shared a space put up four chairs and then main just had lobster facts on the wall

yeah and they're like booth and a totenkov state bird i believe yeah yeah i guess i'm i mean the north carolina booth had a confederate flag up so you're yeah that's right you're not far from well because that was because that was take because north carolina didn't do it so like a private somehow someone other group did it Even though, by the way, that was never any, that flag was not the North Carolina flag, not associated with the state of North Carolina. So they just wanted to throw one up there. It's just kind of a bummer. Like you said, it's not the biggest deal of anything, but the 250th anniversary could have been a moment where, you know, a president decided to try to at least try to bring the country together or didn't try to bring the country together, but at least offered entertainment that anyone could feel welcome, you know, participating in it.

He could have just done nothing. He could have just let the group, America 250, that existed, had bipartisan. partisan membership, had a lot of his allies on it. Come out, make a little speech on the fourth, you know. That would have been offensive to us. He would have come out there and said something terrible. Right. But whatever, he could have just let it happen.

But instead, he got his, uh, his mitts on it. I ruined it. I will say NBC and then, uh, the New Republic went out and like interviewed a bunch of people. And, you know, even people that didn't like Trump were like, it's fine. This is great. This is cool. And I do like the one attendee named Scott said to the New Republic. I like this.

I don't really take Trump into consideration. He's going to be gone in three years, dead in ten. He's not going to take away my joy of this event. He's the president, but he's not God, even though he thinks he is. I wasn't going to come to this, but then I thought, you know, I'm not going to let him take it away. Good for you, Scott. I like that. That is the attitude for all the lives on July 4th.

That is the attitude. Don't let him take it away. You know, they're taking away. The fireworks show in D.C. doesn't start until 11 p.m. Eastern. Because he has to give a long speech, right? That's what they're fighting by. Maybe it's weather or two? That's so late.

That's so late for fireworks. We're so old. We're trying to sleep. No, that's crazy. No, the sun goes down. You look up when sunset is. Whenever that is, I want five minutes later, explosions in the sky. When I was a kid, yeah, we used to, our town was like 9 p.m.

Yeah, 9 p.m's classic. That's it, but that's it. For Massachusetts. 11 is a wild start. Massachusetts has a late sunset. That makes a lot of sense. Oh, there we go. Okay.

I'm sorry, I'm getting on my high horse. So one D.C. event that will undoubtedly be packed, Crooked Con, in November. And it's fun. to crank one out in front of the main stage there. Yes. In fact, it's... Because then Tommy will feel like, you know, he's got someone else. We'll applaud you back. Yeah. You know what I mean?

He's not the only one doing it. Let a rip. You can still get tickets for that. And you can get discounted tickets if you become a cricket subscriber. You also get ad-free episodes of all your favorite cricket pods, subscriber-only shows, substack newsletters, and much more. Sign up at crooked.com Slash friends. So with his fare getting rained out

on Sunday, Trump spent the morning motorcating around the Capitol. He's busy rebuilding as a monument to himself. He toured the East Potomac Gulf Links and will start renovations on that federally owned public course September 1st, despite a federal judge threatening, quote, serious consequences if he moves ahead without approval, which he seems to be doing. The president is also planning to redesign Lafayette Park, which is the one right in front of the White House, so that it contains exactly 47 maple trees in honor of Trump. That's according to the Washington Post. If you're in town visiting and hop on over to the Washington passport agency,

you might be able to pick up a limited edition U.S. passport featuring a photo of Trump at the Resolute Desk in front of the Declaration of Independence, which Trump described as saying, quote, welcome, but be good, even though those words don't actually appear on the passport or make any sense. Yes, that's not what passports are for. I did when I saw this, he because he said this passports says this and a lot of people are like but that's not what passports are for you're a citizen it's not a welcoming document you can only get it here right it's to leave it's not a green car right it's to leave and come back i think he's a little confused but i think he was describing his own portrait in a way i think he was his way of saying my my angry face here saying welcome but

be good well because we could take your pap it's a citizenship thing we could take your citizenship that's that was my interpretation of limited edition act now well supplies last uh closer to home the uh Atlantic's Michael Scherer found out that the new White House Colonnade walkway made of, quote, polished African granite carved in Italy. The Trump said he paid for himself was actually paid for by us. About $690,000 charged to the taxpayers. I didn't even know that had happened. No, I didn't either. I didn't either. Replaced. There was apparently another couple hundred thousand dollars spent on the wall next to the colonnade because remember he put up the all the pictures, All the pictures, and you had to, like, do something to the wall.

I don't know why it cost that much money, but to do something to the wall in order to put up all those pictures. And so that costs money as well. Have you guys said thank you yet? Have you even said thank you? Math scores in the schools are continuing to slide. It's going to flag some problems that are getting worse while he's been president. I just, I think that the Lafayette Park, 47 tree tribute demand is actually quite instructive. Because for those who have never been to Washington, D.C. or gone to Lafayette Park,

it is nothing. I can't I can't overstate how underwhelming and shitty of a little park it is. I've been through it a thousand times I'm sure you guys have too because like you get off the bus or you get off the metro you walk a block and you walk through it to get to the White House and it's like usually there's just a lot of squirrels and like a couple crazy people and then that one

protest that's been there for like 30 years the anti-war protest but the fact that like he needs that to be a tribute to himself means that like no narcissistic stone will go unturned by this man. It's also no one knows. if he wants to add trees or subtract trees because no one knows how many trees there are in Lafayette Park

because who would count such a thing? It's just a park with a bunch of trees and now we're gonna go figure out whether we have to add more trees or take more trees. And they're maple trees only? That's his favorite. Oh, yeah, it's got to go with his favorite.

Everything's about him. His favorite trees, his favorite, his picture everywhere. I gotta say, though, you know, at this point, the arc. Great. I want him in as many fucking tree meetings and arc meetings

and pool meetings as possible. He is not busy enough. If he wants to plant a couple trees, we're just three chopped trees away from being the Obama Lafayette Park tribute. So whatever, have at it. Plant your fucking trees. Fucking asshole. But it's the absurd. You imagine, could you imagine if in the last year of his administration, Joe Biden was wandering around the various grounds talking about the renovations he was going to be doing and what kind of reaction you would be hearing right now from the right it'd be a big you'd be hearing it from us you'd be hearing from us 25th amendment time yeah oh boy all right plant away buddy plant away yeah enjoy those trees uh let's get to some more consequential news uh the supreme court handed down a few big decisions on monday

as it closes out its term the court declined to throw out the 2023 jury verdict finding trump liable for sexually abusing and defaming eugene carroll meaning he has to pay her that five million dollars. In a six three ruling where three conservatives joined the liberals, the court also held the Fourth Amendment covers your cell phone location history, even when you've agreed that a third party like Google or Apple can record it, meaning police now need a specific warrant to get it rather than a so-called geofense warrant that sweeps up the movements of every phone in a particular area. So that seems good. Both of those seem good, right? We have some other ones to get through, but I thought we'd start with E. Jean Carroll and the geo fencing. Yeah, the, I've been, the, the, the

Vinson one is just interesting. It's also interesting that it's like it's a non-ideological, it has a kind of an ideological mixed ruling in part because I do think it's like a novel question. And if we are going to have kind of allowing these companies to track us digitally, including in ways that in a previous era would have been only private information, then it's still being, like Google has already changed their policies. So your location data is stored on your phone. They did that to avoid this issue. But if my phone knows where I am at all times, I view that information as both like my private information and useful to me. Whether or not it is stored directly on my phone or stored at a server, it remains my

private information in the same way that if I had written it all down and put it in my safe deposit box, it would remain private information. And I think the more that when they're thinking about how to translate our principles into a digital world, the more they're respecting how we actually use things and how what privacy really means, not sort of the technical definition, that's sort of blown up by how interconnected and cloud-based so much of our lives are, the better. Yeah, definitely it's a limited, but it's a win and a good day for privacy. I mean, like, the government was trying to argue that, like, just demanding just a little

tiny taste of your location history for a discrete period of time was not a search, which is just nonsense. And I think the courts saw through that because you can learn a ton from everyone's location history. Sotomayor laid that out, I think she talked about how you can see that someone went to the psychiatrist, the plastic surgeon, the abortion clinic, the AIDS Treatment Center, or the strip club. She goes on and on and on.

And then Kagan argued. And then to a concert to jack off. And Kagan. Were you at the Great American Pair? Geofense that place. And then Kagan argued that tracking location data isn't really optional. It's like the price we all pay to use a cell phone. So it was nice to see them have a little techno fluency and understand how this stuff actually works.

Gorsuch, Kavanaugh Roberts sided with the liberals. Interesting. Very interesting group of people. Gorsuch, Gorsuch, there's the other, and we'll get to the other ones, but Gorsuch is an interesting. He's an interesting one. on like tribal rights in particular. Trump said that he would fight back on the E. Gene Carroll thing. Powerfully and strongly, it's like, no, you won't.

He already transferred $5.5 million to a court-controlled account back in 2023. So she's getting paid. That's the end of the road for Trump on that one. I can't believe that's the, like, I know. I'm glad she's getting her cash money. But, man, there were so many avenues for Trump to face some kind of accountability and him losing $5 million while I'm glad goes to, you. E. Jean Carroll is not high on the list of ways in which he could have faced consequences.

But there's still an $83 million verdict that he's appealing as well. That's one deal in Kazakhstan. Right. Positive America is brought to you by Zbiotics. Got to tell you guys about a game-cheaching product I use before any night with drinks. It's called pre-alcohol. Zbiotics, pre-alcohol probiotic drink is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking.

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affiliated with or endorsed by Viatris. There were also two big decisions on the president's ability to fire people at independent federal agencies. The results were split. In a six-three decision, the conservative majority reversed the court's longstanding precedent and said that Trump can fire people like FTC Commissioner Rebecca Slaughter, who brought the case without any specific reason. But in a 5-4 decision, the court decided that Fed Governor Lisa Cook, whom Trump and Bill

Pulte have accused of mortgage fraud can stay on the job while litigation continues. In a post-on-truth Social, Trump said the slaughter ruling, quote, greatly increases presidential power at a time when it is most needed. He is right about the first part. How do you guys square what the court said about the cook firing versus what it's saying about all the others? Well, so what the court says is the FTC is an entity that exercises executive power. The Fed is different because it's supposed to be a non-political entity that is insulated from presidential pressure. And they are that the Fed has to be independent because even the appearance of political pressure could destroy the faith in the U.S. economy. Now, I think the FTC case is very bad. They threw out 91 years

of precedent. And basically, the FTC, the implications go well beyond the FTC. The president can now fire leaders at will from the SEC, the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, the National Labor Relations Board. The list goes on and on. Basically, everywhere about the Fed. Everywhere with the Fed. And he can sort of paralyze those entities by making them not have enough members. They don't have a quorum so they can't even meet. So it's quite bad. The Fed is different because monetary policy has to be free from political manipulation and perceived meddling. But even in this case, like ominously for Cook, the court said that Trump could try to fire her again. They just didn't, they said he didn't go through

the process, right? He didn't tell her why she was being fired and given her a chance to rebut the charges. Yes, they said that. I think Roberts sort of cordoning off the Fed. as like a special case means that the ruling was narrow and that said, okay, they got the process wrong. And so while it's still litigating, she can be on the job. But she, they still have to prove that she did something wrong. She can be fired for cause. Exactly. Right. Under the Federal Reserve Act, the president can only remove a Fed governor if they are fired for cause. And he didn't meet that standard by presenting any evidence. Right. So if she doesn't get, if her case goes away, then like, then there's no cause. Right. But it won't go away. It's sort of, I,

Ironically, it just puts more pressure on the administration to politically prosecute Lisa Cook until they can claim that she can be fired for cause. What will happen, they leave the door open to kind of evaluating whether or not they've met some threshold for cause, whatever that would mean. It's interesting kind of reading, going back and forth between the ruling and the descent because they're all so mad at each other, which I think is very funny. But then you read Gorsuch, you wrote this really interesting. concurring opinion about it. And I see a lot of people today saying when the Democrats went,

oh, we'll just put our people in charge and now we'll have that power. But as like the Sotomayor notes in the dissent, Congress creates the FTC. The court says that these people can be insulated from being fired by the president. And then they give all these independent agencies, not just executive authority, right, but legislative authority and judicial authority. So Congress creates these independent agencies, and they're kind of quasi-legislative, right? They can write rules and regulate and do things that Congress could do. They also do things an executive could do. And the majority decided that given that kind of mix between the authorities, they're going

to give all the power to the president, right? So the president is now taking all the legislative authorities that were granted, all the judicial authorities that were granted. And, oh, when a Democrat wins, we'll have the same authority. But then Gorsuch comes back and says, no, because we're going to look at this again in the future. So in deciding whether or not to allow there to be an independent agency or not, the court said, no, we'd rather make the president a supreme authority over all these legislative functions. But if a Democrat becomes president, we'll just come back and say, no one has this authority.

We'll strike a bunch of this down. That's not what the majority opinions. No, no, but that's what Gorsuch is saying happens next. And there is going to, but that is what happens. It is because Robert's opinion, Robert's argument is, it's all unitary executive theory. And they have been, so Roberts says the president may remove his subordinates at will because subordinates who exercise. the president's power must be accountable to him and he to the people. And that's where it ends. But that, but this is the problem because it's not just the president's power. It's congressional

power. The reason there was a balance and the reason it makes sense. And I think this is why Sotomayor and Kagan are so pissed about it is you're not just giving the president his executive authority. You are stealing power from Congress because Congress delegated some of its authority. I agree with that. I agree with that for sure. I'm just saying I think Roberts and Kavanaugh, the unitary executive people would be very comfortable being consistent in with the Democratic president on this kind of stuff, which they have shown before as well. Except this wouldn't be about where the authority should rest. This would be about saying, uh, that now. I think it's bad no matter what. I don't think Democratic presidents or Republican president should have this power. But you come

back in and then you say, actually, uh, you can't do this because this whole agency shouldn't have been allowed to do this in the first place. So now we're not, we're no longer going to say, you still are in charge of this whole agency, but we're now going to restrict what this agency is allowed to. That's the Chevron. All. I think Leo. Whitel Whitman in her conversation with Dan said she was concerned about a kind of hypothetical you're talking about there. I love it. I mean, just like one thing that worries me. So you read this comment from Bill Pulte who tweeted, as I've repeatedly said, I believe Lisa Cook will be indicted for mortgage fraud. It's like no shit. This is a case he cooked up as the U.S. Director of Federal

Housing. He is now tweeting this attack on her from his new job as the temporary director of national intelligence. That is chilling. I mean, yeah, the whole thing, I mean, it's nice for Lisa Cook and I actually, you know, what we're talking about is who knows what will happen, right, if this comes up again. I think that the, the, the, the upshot of this whole thing is there are no more independent agencies except for the Fed, the one, potentially. And so that means that Justice Department, intelligence, all the rest of them, everything that Trump has done over the last four years, now gets to happen again. Like this is this, this is just, this is what the Supreme, as long as this Supreme Court majority is in place, they believe that no one has to be independent except for the

Fed. Well, and the distinction they're breaking down, right? Look, it was always the case. There were a bunch of executive agencies that the president was totally in charge of. What they're saying is that these independent agencies are no longer independent, even though those agencies were made incredibly powerful by Congress in ways that assumed that the president wouldn't be solely in charge of them. And so, like, that to me is where the kind of like, yes, now FTC looks a lot like, the Department of Justice, except the FTC can do more than what the Department of Justice could do. Meanwhile, in a very close 5-4 decision, where John Roberts and Amy Coney-Barritt sided with the liberals, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of a Mississippi law allowing the state to count mail-in ballots that are postmarked by Election Day but arrive after.

The decision could preempt similar legal challenges by Republicans and at least 14 other states that continue counting ballots that arrive after Election Day. Trump whined about the decision and said it proves the need for Senate Republicans to pass his Save Act. name dropping the five holdouts on truth social. How meaningful or not do you guys think this is in the context of the larger Trump assault on voting rights? I mean, I think it allows like 30 states to keep their policies in place in terms of how they count mail and ballot. So that's pretty important. I'm sure that ongoing assault on voting rights will continue. I mean, it was a five-four decision.

It was Trump's DOJ and the RNC trying to strike down a Mississippi law allowing ballots to be counted. I'm glad to see they made this decision. It feels just like part of a broader process of just constantly chipping away. And maybe this chip didn't come undone, but there will be many more attempts. So Dan and I talked last episode about how Trump's trying to get the SAVE Act passed by refusing to sign the bipartisan housing bill until it is. On Monday, Mike Johnson sent Trump the housing bill anyway, which means that it will become law in 10 days unless Trump signs it sooner or vetoes it. The bill passed so overwhelmingly that Congress could override a Trump veto, though House Republicans are now unclear if they'll have the votes. Just listen to what Florida Representative Randy Fine said on Monday morning.

My issue was if Elizabeth Warren thinks a bill is great, then it probably isn't. And that's sort of how I looked. But the enthusiasm with which Democrats had for this bill got me spooked. And I didn't come to Washington to work with Democrats. I came to Washington to beat them. There's a message for you. Did you read the bill before you voted for her? Probably not.

And here's what Trump said on Monday when asked whether he'll sign the bill. What are your plans for the housing bill, Mr. President? I don't know. I think it's so unimportant by compared to the Save America Act. When I look at that bill, it's a bill. But when I look at the Save America Act, it's about saving America. To me, compared to the Save America Act, just about everything is a big yawn. Wow.

He's bored. He really cares about housing. Board of the Iran War. Board of Housing. Just wants to rig elections. How badly do you guys think Trump and Republicans have fucked up the politics of this bill? And what do you guys think of the final product? I mean, the goal is to boost housing supply and affordability. They're going to like streamline environmental reviews and encourage development. I'm not an expert on this stuff. It passed with 85 votes in the Senate and 358 votes in the house. So it's like overwhelming bipartisan support. I will leave it to smarter people to see if it will really solve the job. But like, politically speaking, this is a very important issue to the American people.

Like voters overwhelmingly think housing costs are really important. Huge majorities want Congress to do something about it. The underlying components of the bill when you peel them out and pull them are very popular. For young people in particular, they feel like they're never going to be able to afford a home, 60, 70 percent of majorities. And so to say that that's a big yawn when it could have been your like crowning legislative accomplishment on housing as opposed to the SAVE Act, which is a thing that people are like 52% think it's maybe a good idea because it's, by the way, there's just not a huge issue in this country of undocumented non-citizens registering to vote or whatever the hell he's talking about.

It's also not going to pass. It's not going to pass. Republicans don't want it. That's what that's the whole saying. It's so stupid. Yeah. There's no leverage here. It's funny too because part of it, right, is like this is a housing bill that's about addressing

the long-term causes of a lack of housing stock and the rising price of housing. There's no like Trump being clean fix. He does know that no one's going to feel the effects of the housing bill. For years. You know if it's a good bill.

You can sell it. Right. You can try to Biden administration. The Recovery Act is divided to three parts. Right, yeah. You can try to say it's a good thing. Yeah. There was a little like a mini fight

as part of this bill for a the details are complicated, but basically to try to prevent institutional investors from sitting on houses that a lot of experts thought would have kind of a countervailing effect to what the bill was going to do. It might actually cause housing prices to go up. Senator Brian Schott's, friend of the show, was accused of me a corporate stooge for pointing this out, including by a lot of progressives. And they did manage to kind of change that rule in such a way that it's no longer going to have that effect and that won the day too, which was, I think, a good victory for the kind of E&B abundance people that were arguing that he wasn't being a corporate

stooge. He was just talking about basic economics and what the impact would be. But like this was a bipartisan bill. Elizabeth Warren fought hard for this bill. A ton of Republicans voted for this bill. It's a rare kind of policymaking victory like from another era. And of course, right on the one yard line, they were literally putting up the podium and people were speaking. They were speaking at the podium. The event was basically already beginning. Reading out how excited they were. Caroline Levitt posted about how one of the most important bills ever, something to that effect. And he just rips the rug out right from under all of them.

And now they are afraid to support it, even though it has a veto-proof majority because the dear leader says he would rather rig elections. I haven't seen these stories yet, but I'm looking forward to the anonymous frontline Republicans in races who were like getting ads ready to tee up the housing bill as part of how they were going to tackle the issue. of affordability and work with the other party to show that they're bipartisan because they're in a district that, you know, Kamala Harris won or that, you know, Trump only won by a couple. Just hear what they think about this. And now the response ad is like, big yawn, says the president. Okay. So that'll be fun.

So if he doesn't, if he refuses to sign it and Congress doesn't adjourn, it'll become law. But if they don't want to deal with it, they could adjourn Congress and let the thing die. Is that basically the gist of it? What's going to happen? In 10 days, it becomes law unless he vetoes it. Okay. How would he? Yeah.

I don't know that Congress. How does the pocket veto? That's just the, that's, I don't know. All I've seen is that 10 days, it becomes law in 10 days or he vetoes it. You know, listening to the whole thing there, he's going to let it become law. Yeah. I don't think. He's just being a baby about it.

Unless now someone could, who knows, right? He changes his mind on a dime. So something could piss him off between now and when he decides to sign it. But there he sounded like, fuck, I'm annoyed that I have to do this. But I threw a tantrum and now I'm just going to let this. bill become law, but I'm not going to be happy about it. That's sort of what I got. He's just cutting off his nose despite his face. Someone gave him really dumb last-minute advice about how to use this bill for leverage to get the same-back package. It was probably like Bill Pulte.

Bill Pulte is exactly what I was going to say. Yeah, the mortgage. Yeah, because it combines its two passions. Signed mortgage. Mortgage housing and being a dick. Yeah. He's also, by the way, he did promise not to sign any new legislation until the SAVAC was passed. He just instantly broke that promise. So in a way, he's actually returning. to what he had always said he was going to do. He's a promised caps. He's a promised caps. No legislation for me.

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having fun with all of this. Trump spent much of the last. Trump spent much of the weekend posting about communism, while Democrats offered their takes on the DSA wins in last week's New York primaries. Here's Zoran Mamdani himself, Josh Shapiro, and Chris Murphy. Josh Gottheimer, a Democratic member of Congress, says many of us believe, as do I. If you're a socialist, you are not a Democrat. And in fact, they put out a manifesto today. I don't have you seen this thing? Sounds pretty socialist to me. I think Democratic socialism at the heart is pragmatic, because if we cannot deliver for working people, then what is this for? I'm not interested in writing a manifesto or, frankly, in reading one.

I'm interested in delivering, and that's exactly what we've been showing. Democratic voters in New York chose three candidates backed by Zoramamam Dani, far left and Democratic socialist candidates. What message do you take from that about where your party is? Well, you know, those were races in individual districts in a whole other state. I think what is important are the people who are making a lot of noise, who are engaging in these performative politics, have to now figure out how to deliver results.

I'm not a Democratic socialist, but I do believe that the Democratic Party has been historically way too timid in taking on corporate power. Democrats are not going to win by defending this version of capitalism, but I think we'll be able to offer ideas on how to dramatically reform it rather than throwing out the entire system. All right. Chris Murphy doing a little Goldilocks at the end there.

I've already said plenty. So maybe you guys can kick us off with your reaction to this debate and what it all means. You weighed in on this? I did. Yeah. I didn't notice that. There's a clip from Thursday's pot. Look, for what it's worth, slot me into the Murphy camp.

I mean, like, but I think my big takeaway from the New York elections is how much voters hate the establishment and the status quo. And I think that is not new information. Every poll we've seen is like people really hate Trump. They also hate the Democratic Party. Things are not great because people are pissed. The results, I think, hammer home just how angry voters are and that they are happy to trade a powerful incumbent for something new to demonstrate that anger. Does that mean that every district is going to want the furthest left candidate? No.

Look who's on the ballot from the Democratic Party in Iowa, for example. They're very different than New York races. That's not surprising at all. I think what's exhausting about this and that you, experience is just how much everyone's talking past each other. Because a lot of people want the same thing and they're labeling it differently. I'm sure there are some DSA members who are like classical socialists, like the Marxist-Leninist state, but I think most people do not want that. It's certainly not what Bernie Sanders wants. He is talking about redistributing economic power

through the democratic process, not a violent Bolshevik revolution. He believes in civil liberties and elections and change through democratic means. And it's a worldview that is a lot closer to the Labor Party in the UK or like Nordic countries, then, you know, something radical, like Medicare for all, the NHS, right? Like, these are not crazy ideas. But Trump and Republicans say, oh, this is communism, right? This is all about drumming up like Cold War era fears. And that is more politically potent than saying you want a Scandinavian welfare states. But I think... And no one goes after the Scandinavian welfare states. Well, they got all that gas money. Social democracy. But is the term. Yes. They, in a country with a two

party system, this is inevitable. You're going to have a huge range of opinions within the party from DSA to DLC. And I think if we want to effectively fight back against Trump, we're going to have to find a way to work together and kind of bridge some of these gaps and find common cause on things. And, you know, which is where the kind of Josh Gottheimer kind of you're with us or against us, you're a Democrat or you're a socialist thing, I think it's just reductive and stupid and not helpful. Yeah, it's counterproductive. Why are we doing this? Yeah. I mean, look, I know that you had sort of have said your piece about this. And I found very few responses to what you said about trying to persuade you or kind of think about what you're saying and try to respond to it in a way that

was sort of treating you as you were acting in good faith. Didn't see a lot of that. Yeah, look, it is the internet. Some of the most liberal districts in the country are feeling like they can have someone who is further to left and they know they're going to win in November and they want that kind of person fighting for them or they want to support the person that Bernie and Mamdani got behind because they really like them. They don't have a lot of love for establishment figures. They don't feel like establishment politics has done well for them. Even when those establishment figures are to the left, that doesn't mean that Josh Shapiro is not one of the most popular governors in the country or that if there was just a poll out that said, who are the most popular

political figures? Well, they're Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders, right? It's a complicated heterodox country. We have to make one big pro-democracy coalition. I think, that puts responsibility on both sides of this divide. On the Josh Godheimer, Jamie Harrison, James Carville side, you can disagree with people. I think you should be really critical of them. You should say why you disagree. I think Josh Piro actually did this well. I have strong disagreements. This is a district in another state. That's one district. And I'll defend my views. People should defend their own without saying that these people have no place in our coalition. If you're a Democratic socialist, you're not a Democrat.

Like, you don't get to decide that. The Democratic voters in those districts went to the polls and decided the party reflects what the voters want. The voters aren't meant to follow what the party tells them. Right. Defines a Democrat. If you... And Mamdani had said that in somewhere in that interview that I thought was right.

Right. And if part of your coalition are further than the left, then you like, well, have an argument with him, figure out the places where you agree and figure out an agenda together. Joe Biden wins the primary in 2020. and actually I thought did a pretty extraordinary job of talking to Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and kind of finding a way to bring those people into his coalition to the point where they were some of the people advocating for him the most after he blew the debate. So there is a way to bring these sides of the party together. On the other side, it is not just because someone is on your team and you want to,

and you don't like the mainstream Democrats and you think they're too centrist doesn't mean that people on the left don't have to answer for some of the dumbest or most heinous things that they've said in the past. Careful. Well, but in that, and by the way, that people do, we talked about Graham Platinum. People deserve a chance to explain the difference between who they were before they were in public life and who they are now, now that they have a bigger platform and more responsibility. They deserve that chance. But also, that is a responsibility. You are part of a coalition. Speak your mind. Say your peace. But also know that like, yes, sometimes Republicans are going to take words either in context or out of context and try to paint people that you should also want to win with what you have said in the past. It's just we're, it's, it's, it's, it's collective. doing what is, I think, the work of being part of one big fractious team. Yeah. AOC was asked about this in her interview with Jen Saki. And, you know, she said this without referring directly to Dari Elisa Chevalier. But she was like, look, I think what happens is, from my experience, when you actually take

these jobs and you go into office, the weight of the office and the weight of the job, it does change you. and it makes you realize the responsibility you have, which is, you know, what I said on Friday is, look, she has these views that she just articulated a week before the election, not in her old tweets, a week before the election, but maybe she'll go to Congress and vote in a way that doesn't align with some of the more extreme positions, in which case, great. Everyone deserves the grace to change and prove themselves. It's just like, why I thought that was pretty normal to say. I'm not concerned, And again, I'm not concerned about like DSA candidates or progressive candidates knocking off incumbent Democrats in deep blue districts. That's what primaries are for. Primaries are good. I think primaries are good no matter what. If the progressive wins, if the moderate wins, they're primaries. They're fine. That's what the voters want. I'm also not concerned about what DSA wins for Dems in more competitive districts. My only advice for those frontline Dems, which I had said on Friday, is don't be afraid to distance yourself from DSA.

positions that you disagree with. If someone asks you whether you agree with abolishing prisons and police and borders and you don't, just say that. Say that you don't like the ideas. Say that they're terrible. Say that they're not that great. Say whatever you want to say. But like, don't be afraid to say that because then folks on the left will be mad at you that you said you didn't like that idea. You don't have to attack the people and try to purge them from the party. You don't have to attack their character or their person. I don't want to do that with anyone who won. But you can disagree with the ideas. And by the way, like I also, then, and And if you, and I think there's nothing wrong with saying, like, I'm not a socialist, and I actually think, you know, socialism, I want to figure, whatever a person like a Josh Godhammer would say, it has been their actual point of view, right? I'm not a socialist. I don't agree with socialist ideas, whatever it looks like. But to say, like, I can, therefore I cast you out as it means to protecting what you think the brand should be, as opposed to saying, and I look forward to having that disagreement of person, because I want to make my argument for how, for, for, for why I think that it could be such a bad idea.

and then would say that, like, all right, let's discuss this. Let's discuss your ideas and have a debate and we can learn to work together. Maybe we can find some common ground on stuff that we do agree on. Yeah, but that, yeah, it's just posturing. It's political posturing. Like, the Godheimer version of this is frustrating. I think the reaction to you that was sort of like, how dare you criticize an elected official? I find that so patronizing and stupid. Because once you're in elected office, like, everything is going to be criticized for everything. It just is what it is what it is. Also, the freak out, like, I think the establishment should be worried about what it means for them electorally. But the people who are like, the party's off the rails. This is going to change everything. We heard exactly the same shit in 2018 when AOC beat Joe Crowley and there was all this fearmongering about the squad. And then we nominated Joe Biden to be our Democratic nominee in 2020. And you know what? Establishment moderates. And Joe Biden went out there and said for all that he did to bring in Bernie and the left, he also said, and I think to fund the police is a horrible idea. And he said it like he articulated it and said it specifically. And the left got really mad at him. But it's probably good that he did that. because then people know where Joe Biden stood on that issue and didn't lump him in with the left. It's like the Republicans tried to, but it didn't work. The online reaction to you is just sort of like the most annoying version of an online reaction, which is like, it must have been in bad faith. Like, you know, it means you're dead to them. You're like a shill.

You're a corporatist. You should be Luigi, like whatever like insane. Like literally like insane responses. And it's like everyone calm the fuck down. It's a political discussion. Somebody did a whole video, put me in my picture next to Mike Johnson and said these two are the same. But this is where like, we've been saying that for years. I know, it's true.

It's the, I do like to monitor other people's porn. Yeah. That's your kink. Well, Manny, back to our guy. Yeah, and but also by like Mom Dani, I mean, we interview, I talked to Mom Dani about this directly, right? Like, he's so smart. He gets it. But also, by the way, like.

That's what I'm saying? That's the thing. It's like AOC, so smart about this. He is defending views that I think maybe would be unpalatable to a lot of Americans, but he's the mayor of New York, so he's free to do that. He's evolving on certain things. He's trying to persuade on other things. things. He did so much work to try to demonstrate to Jewish New Yorkers that he could be relied on as an opponent of anti-Semitism without giving an inch on some of his views that are anti-Israel.

Including condemning the rally that Chevalier went to. Yeah. And so like he, I do think online is so, it's so toxic, right, but like actual organizers, even DSA organizers that are actually trying to do this work, I think probably are not as toxic as what you're getting. For sure. at the same time, there are people in the real world following people like Scott Weiner around, yelling at them on the street. Let's talk about that then. Scott Weiner, the state center from San Francisco, who's running to replace Nancy Pelosi, was over the weekend surrounded and berated by a gang of hecklers at the city's annual Transmarch, who told him that his long record of fighting for trans rights was no longer sufficient because of his record on Israel. Let's take a listen.

Scott, I want to support someone who's so positive on. trans rights, but you're a piece of shit on Gaza. How could you do that? How could you betray queers? How could you repress people? You stuck them queer the moment you started supporting Israel, you piece of shit. I just want to read from Wiener's website what his positions are on Israel and Palestine. He's publicly called the Israeli government's action in Gaza genocide, joining Bernie Sanders

and Representative Balant is one of the only. three prominent Jewish elected officials in the country to do so. He has never taken any money from APEC. He has voted no on military funding for Israel, and he supports Palestinian statehood. So that was because he didn't say the word genocide until January. And Weiner said that he left the march because the hecklers, quote, were so physically and verbally aggressive that it was impossible for me to safely remain in the park. What do you guys think? San Francisco being San Francisco or is this a bigger deal? No, this is assholes being assholes. I mean, like, I'm fine with confronting elected officials, heckling them, saying whatever, but like he's in a public space. You can't

tell this man to leave. And also, they're so threatening there and they sound stupid. Like saying your your sexual orientation is predicated on your past comments on Gaza is just like, so I don't know, Scott Wiener. I've never talked to the guy. Like, but he is by any objective measure, an extremely progressive Democrat who, like, he's probably a touch more moderate than the squad say because of like housing issues. The people filming this stuff ultimately make their movement look bad. They make Weiner look sympathetic, which I assume is the opposite of what the intention was. And I think they also hand Fox News and Republicans a piece of content that they'll now use forever to make Democrats, especially progressive Democrats, look crazy and aggressive. And so soup to nuts, it was just a

fucking terrible, terrible way to conduct politics and to treat another human being. Yeah, I think if you're following around a an elected official who is pro-gay, pro-trans at a trans-supporting event, and you are yelling at them and saying you're oppressing queers because of your position on Israel, even though your position on Israel is that you believe Israel has committed a genocide in Gaza, then what you're doing is being an anti-Semite. If you're following Scott Wiener around yelling at him in this park, it is because you are being anti-Semitic. Talking about his Zionist handlers,

yelling at him about a Zionist. You are an anti-Semite. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That is what is, that is why you are yelling at this man. Whatever you tell yourself,

whatever story you tell yourself online, about what you believe in why it's justified. That is, that is as pure anti-Semitism as you can see, and it is corrosive, and it's worth calling out. There's a lot of people, I you know when when someone says that Brad Lander in New York 10 won because of anti-Semitism against it or that anti-Semitism played a role I find that hard to understand because it is a very

Jewish district Brad Lander is Jewish Dan Goldman was Jewish but that doesn't mean that so I don't like it when anti-Semitism is used as a cudgel but that doesn't mean it isn't like worth calling out when you see it and like give me a fucking break we live in a world where like every single person with a phone has a megaphone now and can do this kind of thing. So I don't think, you know, talking about the people who followed Scott Wing around, like, they're not going to listen to us or anyone, right? You're not going to be able to ever stop people from being assholes and holding up their phone. I do think that it would behoove people on the left and especially people who have been marching and organizing and protests for Palestinian rights and have been

right on this issue from the beginning to call that out, right? Because this is the, like, as Tommy said, this is going to be the clip they use to show that Democrats are crazy and all that kind of stuff. And also, it's just, it's good movement politics to be like, yes, we can hold two ideas in our head at the same time that it is horrendous what the Israeli government has done. And that the most important issue is the fact that Palestinians are being slaughtered and now people in Lebanon are being killed. And that is the more important issue. But also, it's still awful that this happened. and in our movement, we don't want that kind of thing. And we don't believe that.

Like that, I think it's very possible to do that. Yes. And believing it just didn't see a lot of it. No, and that under that that have being morally outraged doesn't justify treating people terribly. And like it's not obviously these are just random people. You can't, a few random people following someone around. A whole movement can't be held accountable for it. And it shouldn't be.

However, however, it is more than just that, right? Because you will see people defend following. Scott Weiner. You'll see people defend a coffee shop that refuses to serve Dan Goldman. You will see people and you will see people describe any figure that criticizes falling around Scott Weiner or criticizes what happened to Dan Goldman as civility politics or kind of or or performative respectability. Made up words. Right. And look, we've made fun of, you know, the red hen alert around around civility. But if you, but like being, if you want a movement to succeed, it has to be something that is appealing and generative and, and, and, uh, brings people in and tries to

persuade people and treats them, uh, in good faith. And that's obviously, uh, not what happened here. Yeah. All right. When we come back, I'll talk to the DLCC's Heather Williams. Potta of America is brought to you by Rocket Money. I told this on the show before, but I realized I was paying for a British only version of. some streaming service just to watch one show and then we watch one episode and then we got rid of it. Yeah, it's terrible. Honestly, Rocket Money.

It'll save you a lot of money. They'll track your subscriptions. They'll cancel them within the app with just a few taps. In fact, Rocket Money has saved users over 880 million in canceled subscriptions. You can categorize automatic transactions across your accounts and customize categories with tags to help shed light on your spending patterns. Get regular reports on your spending habits. You can even receive real-time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, and

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If we get a contested presidential results in 2008, which chambers are the one standing between a close call and a stolen one? Where's the actual fight? Oh, that's such a good question. You know, in 26, we have real opportunities to create new majorities in our presidential battleground states. So think Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, Pennsylvania. These are the places that are going to have huge impacts, obviously, on the 2028 presidential.

And these are places where we can win majories in 2026, which will allow us to move legislation as needed to shore up our democracy laws in those states to ensure that we've got a really strong presidential process. Yeah, and I think people don't, maybe not everyone understands, though, probably more people after what happened in 2020. just the power that state legislatures have over the electoral process, over sending delegates of electors to Congress. Maybe you can speak a little bit about that. Yeah, that's exactly right. The presidential certification process originates in our states. And that alongside with our voting laws, with our election administration, all of that are state actions. And so the more Democratic majorities we have, the better our elections are. Certainly now. in this environment and the opportunities that we have to build that power this year will be

sort of immediately put to use, right? To again ensure that people's votes are counted. They're counted in real rays, regardless of who wins, that the election is certified and that person becomes president. So potential election theft aside, for someone who's not familiar with their state legislature or what state legislatures even do, what's a concrete example of something that a Democratic-run state legislature has done over the last few years. It's actually, you know, changed people's lives. Oh, the one that I love to talk about is meals for kids in schools, ensuring that every kid has access to a free meal in school. This was something that passed in Minnesota, when they had the trifecta. It passed in a number of states since then. It is such a

great way to think about how do we nurture our kids in our community. How do we make sure that our resources are going into our future. And it also puts a little more money in people's pockets. So you mentioned some of the battleground states, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Arizona. What are the states where Democrats have the biggest opportunities this year? Talk about sort of the map and the target list for you guys. Yeah. So we think about the map of opportunities in building power in the states. And what that means for us is that we are looking at everything from how do we put Democrats in the negotiating room, by breaking the Republican power of a super majority, to how do we make sure that our Democratic governors

in states where their legislature is a Republican have the veto pen? And how do we, of course, create new majorities trifectas for the future? So those places that we can create these new majorities, these new trifectas really are centered in those presidential battlegrounds. Again, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Arizona, winning just 19 seats in those states will build six new majorities and four new trifectas.

Wow. It's amazing, right? And that's where the core fight is going to be. But I think it's important to also mention, right, that thinking about how do we build power for the long term, how do we start building back Democrats, particularly in the South, where that break of a Republican supermajority puts Democrats in that negotiating room. It gives them a little more power. It gives them more access to voters, to constituents, and allows them to build back for the future

because we know post-2030 that the census comes, reapportionment happens, and we've got congressional districts that are growing in the South. Yeah, so this is something I think about all the time now is you have all the opportunities for 2026. There's so many states now where Republicans have taken power in a state legislature and then gerrymandered the state legislature to such a degree that it's almost impossible for Democrats to make any ground. And I think about Wisconsin as an example. I remember when Ben Wickler was the party chair there and he would talk about how it's just really difficult because you can elect a Democratic governor, but they have gerrymandered the legislature so badly that they can't.

And ultimately, what fixed Wisconsin was state Supreme Court elections. So in states where Republicans have gerrymandered the legislature, what is the strategy there and how do we make headway in some of those those legislatures that are really gerrymandered? Your Wisconsin example is great, right? So we are winning statewide or could win statewide in Wisconsin. We could win at the congressional level, although not as much as I think what was possible there, right, but couldn't flip those state legislatures. You know, I think the strategy is sort of multi-pronged, right? You can't divest in the state legislative races because we do still have legislators there. And those legislators, well, maybe not in the majority, do still have some power to band together, to bring some folks together on issues that matter a lot, right? Particularly when there's a Democratic governor.

Their assurance that he has the veto pen has been really important. So we can't walk away from the state legislatures just because it's hard. But alongside that, in Wisconsin is a great example where the Supreme Court mattered deeply. You know, these Supreme Court races are sometimes partisan, sometimes nonpartisan, but we need to make sure that we let voters know the values of these candidates and that we are thinking about a court strategy alongside our electoral strategy. And then I think the third thing, right, and this varies by state. Wisconsin is not a great example of this, but others are,

where there's ballot initiative opportunities. That is another way in Michigan, right? We've got a people not politicians process that put a nonpartisan commission in Michigan that has incredibly competitive legislative seats and chambers. And those are sort of the three anchorways that I think that you really start to build back. One thing that surprised me is I assumed one reason Democrats have been at a disadvantage is because Republicans outspent us on the state legislative level. But in 2024, the Democratic side outspent the RSLC, the Republican counterpart to you guys, roughly 175 million to 49 million, little better than 3 to 1, still lost the Minnesota trifecta in the Michigan House.

So beyond money, what are some of the biggest challenges that the party has faced at the state level? The attention battle, right? These races are, you know, folks know these candidates less. They're often first-time candidates, right? They're running for the first time. Their name ID is not great. They don't have a record, right, to run on. And that attention fight is really important.

And I think the thing, when you couple the attention with the money and you think about these battleground states, we have competitive races up the whole ballot. So when you think about a low name ID candidate that's running for state legislature, but has a great story to tell, competing for people's time and brain space in the election season is really hard. So I think, you know, as much as we can run as tickets, as much as we can support in coordinated campaigns and other statewide efforts, what is happening at our local races, it's really important. That's also going to be an issue of sort of the hollowing out of local news and the disappearance of local news because if you're reading about politics now, you're reading about national politics. And if you're reading about national politics, you're reading about presidential level, maybe congressional level, but probably not much about your state level. That is exactly right. I imagine that in that situation, the ground game field probably has to be even more critical than even sort of the media strategy. Yes. The direct voter contact by the candidates is, the most important thing that these races do. These candidates, you know, these districts are small

enough in most cases where the candidate can knock the door of every voter in their district. They still live in their districts. So they're going to the grocery store and drop off and to the library and, you know, everywhere else alongside voters and constituents. And they are sort of never off duty. And that means that their muscle of communicating and talking about the things they care about, what they believe in, why they're running for office, what's happening nationally and how they put it in their own words. That's happening all the time, and they're building that muscle. I think we call it now, they're authentic communicators. But truly, like, they're just normal people who are having conversations with their neighbors. So the recruitment numbers are really impressive in Minnesota.

I think you guys have filled every district. Kansas has the biggest slate in 30 years. Question I had, how does the recruiting pitch go for a candidate who lives in a district where Republicans routinely win by 20 to 30 points. Because that is a getting people to run for office in the first place, difficult, getting people to run for office in a place where the climb is very steep. I imagine that's even harder. It is, you know, this is the thing that I was most nervous about this cycle was, you know, coming out of 2024, starting this year off, how are we going to get people to run for office? And then, of course, we had the horrific assassination of Speaker Hortman in Minnesota.

Another reminder, right, of how difficult it is to run for office. It didn't come true. Like, people were really excited to run for office. And I think, you know, we work hard to make sure that candidates across the country have some level of tools and sort of tool kits, right, to run for office. But I think what we've seen is our ability at this ballot level to connect with voters and all kinds of communities this year and win elections. We've already flipped 30 seats.

Some of these have been in Ruby Red districts is a reminder that if we don't show up, if someone doesn't show up, we can't even compete, let alone win. And this really feels like a year where, you know, people are seeing that one way to change the direction of the country is to change the people in power. And you've got two options in that. You vote or you run for office. And we are seeing that all over. It's just incredible. I'm sure there's an incredible diversity of candidates that you've recruited, but is there any sort of demographic group or type of candidate or profession that keeps showing up more this cycle compared to other cycles? You know, it's interesting that you ask this question, in part because, you know, our candidates tend to be middle class.

They tend to be, like I said, first-time candidates. They tend to be maybe not your sort of made-for-TV. sort of politician. And that is what is what is so great about this ballot level. It's what's great about our state legislatures is you've got real people trying to solve real problems. I feel like there is a stronger spotlight on that and you're noticing it more. It feels just different than what you stereotypically have seen in sort of national politics. Student council president to law school. Yes, lawyer. Right, lawyer, right, yeah. Exactly. And I think that.

the value of these candidates is their ability to say, you know, I get, I get what you're dealing with. Here's my story and how I'm dealing with it and how it's challenging for me. This is my own personal antidote of what is happening here, but I get it. I hear you. And like, we may have slightly different views of how this can come together, but we can talk about it. And I think, you know, that is really what we're seeing in these candidates. it's great. Obviously the Democratic Party's sort of national favorability rating is in the basement. And yet state legislative Democrats routinely run ahead of the national party brand. What are your

candidates doing that the national party can't seem to do? These candidates are community organizing, right? They are still talking about the thing that's happening in your backyard. And, you know, if you talk to someone who has been in office in the state legislature, you will hear them say, like, they are problem solvers on behalf of their community. They are connecting constituents with federal agencies that are solving their problem. They're trying to get their trash can that, you know, had gone missing and they hadn't been able to get it back. They are able to take these big policies. I like to use the infrastructure bill as an example and break it down into community impact. You know, the infrastructure bill, what does it mean for our community? It means

that this road is going to be fixed and 20 minutes is going to be cut off your commute time. You're going to have 40 minutes a day back in your life to do whatever it is that you want to do. That ability to really localize the national issues is really the art form of this ballot level. Everything is about your neighbor. And as much as we are a country divided, people still care a lot about their communities and their neighbors. And that is what separates things. For the person listening right now who's surrounded by Trumpy neighbors in his show, Democrats have no shot where they live. What do you say to that person? What should they do?

Get involved in your state legislative race. Seriously. It is, it will, it will broaden what you think. It'll broaden your view of your neighbors, right? But it'll also give you that opportunity to have those conversations. You know, these legislative candidates are surrounded by friends and family who are volunteering and talking to voters on their behalf, persuading them all the way to the end of the election. And it is in conversation that we move the needle together. You know, even those of us that are far apart, maybe not, maybe not on the super mega end of things, but on the disillusioned Republican that no longer feels like they have a place in Trump's Republican Party. Like, there's a real opportunity to dialogue and have that conversation and find some level of common ground.

And honestly, just listen and hold space for people. And that is that is what is being. craved everywhere. Last question. Yeah. Give us the state legislative chamber people aren't paying enough attention to that you'll be watching on election night and what it'll tell us if it goes our way. Oh, man. Okay.

So I'm going to take this in two ways. One, the one that I care most about is Minnesota. I just, it's my home state. You guys have been through a lot. We've been through a lot there. We just, I really want to get that one back. So that's my personal. take on it. I think, you know, if we are having just an incredible, like, year, there's real

things happening in Arizona. Yeah, I saw Arizona in the list and I was like, oh, wow. Yeah. How did we go from Arizona being so red to now to Democratic senators, Katie Hobbs as governor? And I guess the legislature is up for grabs to them. It very much is. And, you know, I think this is a, this starts to tell us, right, that like big things are happening. But, you know, we're in an environment right now where if the election was held today, I think We've got roughly a plus four environment that we're seeing at our ballot level. That means that we could flip as many as 600 plus seats. There is a lot in play, and these races are often run on the margins.

So we've got this big spreadsheet as everyone does on election night that we watch. And it's going to be exciting. Heather Williams, thanks for joining POTSafe America, and good luck out there. Thank you. That's our show for today. Thanks to Heather Williams for coming on. Dan and I will be back with a new show on Friday. Pods of America is a crooked media production.

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