Pod Save America - Trump Mugshot-enfreude

Episode Date: August 29, 2023

Friend of the pod Addisu Demissie joins to discuss the latest Trump indictment news, including the mugshot seen around the world, Saturday’s horrific hate crime in Florida and Vivek Ramaswamy’s bizarre response, and how abortion access will be a key part of upcoming elections in Pennsylvania, Ohio and Virginia. Then White House Economic Advisor Dr. Heather Boushey stops by to talk about Bidenomics and how the White House is taking on inflation, student loans, and housing prices. And later, Halle Kiefer quizzes Tommy and Addisu on cringe mugshot merch in a game called The Price Is Wrong, Bitch. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. 

Welcome to Pots of America. I'm Tommy Vitor, and we have another packed show for you today. We are going to talk about the latest Trump indictment news, this horrific hate crime in Florida, and the response by Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy, the 60th anniversary of the March on Washington and Dr. King's legacy, and then some big elections happening later this year in the political implications. Favreau and Levitt are still on a break. They told me they wanted to see other podcasts, you know, kind of enjoy their summer. So we asked for an upgrade and we asked our friend Adisu Demesi to co-host today. He has worked for Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Gavin Newsom,

Cory Booker. He's one of the smartest strategists in the Democratic Party and my friend, Adisu, it's great to have you. It is, it is good to be here. And a jilted host. I will try to be a handsomer, blacker stand-in for Fabs and Lovett. Okay, perfect. Yeah, combined. You're two of them combined. That's how good this is going to be. Later in the show, you're going to hear my interview with Dr. Heather Boucher.

She's a top economist in the Biden administration. We talk about how the White House is battling inflation, housing prices, student loans. We talked about prescription drugs. The White House is battling inflation, housing prices, student loans, talked about prescription drugs. And then Crooked Media's own Hallie Kiefer will be back for a game inspired by the cringy Trump merch that's out there and the late, great Bob Barker. So please stick around for that. So, Adisa, let's get to the news.

We finally last week got a look at Trump's mugshot, sort of a weird, intense, glaring vibe. He self-reported that he is 6'3", 215 pounds, which is the exact same height and weight as Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson. Were you surprised that the president, former president, is so shredded? I was surprised, yes. I was surprised, yes. I mean, I will say the group chats lit up, but maybe more about the fake measurements than about the mugshot. Because 6'3", 215, we had a little betting pool going.

I was sure he was pushing three bills. I don't know, maybe he is, but it's a bald-faced lie in a series of much more important bald-faced lies, but par for the course with this guy. Yeah, we'll get to many. I think he also announced that he shot a 67 and won his own club championship over the weekend.

Shocking. It's just a weird thing to be that shameless and lie that brazenly all the time. If he had been like, I'm 255, I would have been like, maybe he carries his weight different. Or something in a different place. But 215, it's like, come on, bro. Come on, buddy. Come on.

You're not an NFL quarterback. But we digress. So there's all this legal news happening and swirling around Donald Trump. One big question that's going to take some time to sort out is when all of his various criminal trials will actually get scheduled. In DC, where Trump is being charged for attempting to overturn the 2020 presidential election, Judge Chutkin has scheduled Trump's trial for March 4th, which is the day before Super Tuesday. Lots of action in Georgia happening, too. Former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows spent hours Monday testifying before a federal judge in Atlanta.

He's attempting to move the racketeering case against Trump and their various goons to a federal court, which broadens the jury pool. the jury pool. One of Trump's co-conspirators in the Fulton County RICO case, Kenneth Cheesebro, asked to have his trial within 70 days, which led Fulton County DA Fannie Willis to propose an October 23rd start date for all of them in these trials. So Adisu, look, all these dates are probably going to change and move around, but let's just talk about the politics. Obviously, I want a verdict in one or all of these cases before anyone has to vote for this guy or vote against this guy. But I also worry about Trump's team spinning like the tiniest procedural wins into some sort of vindication. How are you thinking about the politics of these cases? First of all, I want to apologize to my civ pro professors from law school for the

total mess I'm about to make of this. I am a lawyer in name only. But I think, look, I think that it is going to be a long 15 months. I think there are going to be a lot of twists and turns. I think the biggest thing that this does for Trump in terms of the Republican primary, at least, is it ensures that he's at the top of the conversation, you know, is front and center in terms of the conversation, just like he was last week in that debate, even without being there. And so March 4th, if the if the federal trial really does go down March 4th, that is the day before Super Tuesday next year. And, you know, whatever may happen in the elections on March 5th, I can pretty much guarantee that the news is going to be about whatever's happening in the Trump trial and not necessarily what's happening with the voters.

Now, so I think in a lot of ways, it's about whether all news is good news or bad news for Donald Trump. And I think in terms of the Republican primary, the answer is probably, yeah, the more he's in the news, the better it is for him, regardless of the substance. But then we get to the general election. And I am not one of those people who subscribes to the theory that Trump is Teflon. Criminal trials and convictions will stick to the guy. And so we'll see what happens if the justice system plays out before November 5th and so be it. Yeah. I'm totally with you that I do not think this helps him in the general election. But just to give everybody a quick rundown of what we're looking at so far, January 15th, we're supposed

to start the Eugene Carroll defamation case. March 4th, the federal 2020 election trial. March 25th, the New York State hush money trial scheduled to start. Then May 20th, the classified documents case is scheduled to start. And then July 15th is the Republican National Convention. So it's going to be a busy guy. Yeah, fair. He's going to be, I actually think Nikki Haley had a, was it Nikki Haley who had a pretty good line the day after the debate where she said he's going to be in the courtroom more than the campaign trail. Good alliteration and probably true. Spot on.

Possibly true. Yeah. Absolutely. It's worth noting that Mark Meadows said that he had been in Georgia where, you know, during one of the sort of signature verification audits that was happening. And he tried to go visit the audit location, but he said he was just in the area because he had some kids who lived there and was just like, happened to be in town. So we tried to buy just, just drive it by. These are the legal theories you try to make fly when you're in this much trouble. So a D suit, the, an organization called the Republican accountability project launched an ad campaign

targeting Trump over the Georgia indictment. This spot is apparently going to run on Fox News in Phoenix, Milwaukee, and in Atlanta. Here's a clip from that ad. Because in America, the rule of law still matters. And that's why Donald Trump has been charged with 91 felonies in four separate cases for attempting to steal an election, falsifying business records, and mishandling classified information. We've seen what happens when people start believing nothing matters. That's why it doesn't matter that Donald Trump was president of the United States. It doesn't matter that he is currently running for the presidency. This is America. No one is above the law.

That's why it matters that Donald Trump faces consequences for his actions. Some real movie trailer shit there with that ending. I know. It feels like the ad is like for a candidate named rule of law. I'm not entirely sure what the point is. I think, I don't know, like anyone needs reminding this guy's running. Maybe it's a, to remind the press that this whole, like, you know, nothing matters approach to covering Trump, uh, was bullshit. I think that's right. And I think it's largely aimed at people like us, people who are paying attention to politics, voters, you know, the thing about if Trump does have a superpower, it's that voters have a very burned in opinion of him, Republican voters, Democratic voters, even independent voters. The good news for us is that that Burnden opinion is negative on the whole across the majority of the

electorate. The bad news for democracy and for his opponents is that Republican voters feel the opposite, right? That he is popular, he remains popular, and none of this information is new to them. In fact, in some ways, it makes them feel better about him. But they've created a Frankenstein's monster, right? The voters, he has enough support within the Republican primary electorate to have a strong hold on the nomination right now. He's not guaranteed to win, but I think he's the favorite. You turn to the general election against Joe Biden, and I think it's a whole different ballgame.

A whole different ballgame. A big to be continued on this subject. But let's turn to this horrifying news out of Florida, where on Saturday, a 21-year-old white man killed three black people at the Dollar General store in Jacksonville, Florida. There's no doubt that this was a hate crime. The shooter left behind a racist screed. He literally drew swastikas on the gun he used. This guy had tried to access the campus of a nearby historically black university, but was asked to leave by a security guard. Thank God. A little over a year ago, 10 people were murdered in another hate crime in Buffalo, New York.

There have been at least 470 mass shootings in the U.S. so far in 2023. Between when we started preparing for this segment and when we started recording, we just learned about another shooter on the campus of UNC. So you're hoping everyone there is okay. But you know, D.C., like we're long past the point in this country where people seem to have stopped being shocked by mass shootings because they happen so often. I'm starting to wonder whether we're getting to a similar place in the media, in our culture, in developing a similar numbness to these hate crimes, because they're happening over and over and over again. Yeah, I mean, it's sad. Beyond sad. And it's outrageous that somebody can walk in and buy a killing weapon designed to kill human beings and go out there and kill people based on the color of their skin or their religious creed or what have you, and that it doesn't even break the,

you know, the A block of the news. With that said, I think sometimes in our feelings of despair and sometimes hopelessness, we forget the voters still care desperately about this. Americans still care. And when they, and regardless of whether it's at the top of the news, if you do a poll, if you look at what voters are themselves volunteering about the issues that matter to them, gun safety legislation, getting guns off the streets, out of schools, still pull towards the top. The salience of the issue hasn't changed in years, certainly since Sandy Hook, since Buffalo last year, Pittsburgh the year before that. And so it does, it pisses me off, obviously. It makes me like beyond angry to think that another one will come and go and three Black people are dead. Three people are dead and three

Black people specifically are dead at the hands of this man. And, you know, we're going to all move on with our lives. But I think we have to continue to put this front and center as an issue to win elections and ultimately change laws and change minds as well. Yeah. So two candidates who got asked about what happened are Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy. Here's some audio of DeSantis commenting on the shootings. I was able to speak with Sheriff TK Waters in Jacksonville about the horrific shooting that took place. This shooting, based on the manifesto that they've discovered from the scumbag that did this, was racially motivated. He was targeting people based on their race.

That is totally unacceptable. This guy killed himself rather than face the music and accept responsibility for his actions. And so he took the coward's way out. But we condemn what happened in the strongest possible terms. We've offered support for Sheriff Waters in the city of Jacksonville. And we send our condolences to the victims and their families who were the victims of a very cowardly act. So that's pretty straightforward from DeSantis. Here's a portion of what Vivek Ramaswamy said when asked about the shootings on Meet the Press. And he took the conversation to

a conversation about affirmative action potentially being responsible for what happened. Here's a clip. I do believe that racism in many cases is manufactured in a way that creates more racism in this country. I cannot think of a greater way, Chuck, of driving racism in this country than to take something else away from someone based on the color of their skin. And so is there existing racism in the United States? Of course there is. But those last burning embers of racism, the last thing I want to do is throw kerosene on it. And yet that's exactly what I believe the modern culture is doing by creating race-based quota systems that deny people access to goods or services based on the color of their skin. The right answer to stop discrimination on the basis of race, as John Roberts said it,

is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. It just, it's, it's really remarkable that it's like nails on a chalkboard to me, man. Yeah, I know. I mean, like even Ron DeSantis can sort of state what happened clearly and be like, this was a racial hate crime based on the manifesto where the killer told us

why he did it. And Vivek Ramaswamy goes to this disgusting place where he's blaming victims, blaming like it's, it's outrageous. But this is, this is the modern Republican party, unfortunately, right? Shock jock, asshole, enemy creation is the brand. You know, Adam Serwer said it, the cruelty is the point.

Like that is what appeals to a not insignificant portion of Republican primary voters. And so Ramaswamy is playing the game, right? And I don't know if he's running for president, vice president, Fox News host, OAN host, whatever the hell he's trying to do. He's doing what I think the Trump Republican Party has taught its disciples to do, which is be an asshole and it will pay off and use the quote unquote culture war to divide people when I think what DeSantis said is correct. Like this was a pretty clear case of just a racist jerk, not a big enough word, killing

people because he didn't like them. And why can't we just leave it there and fight the root cause of that as opposed to these absurd anti-woke screeds that the vivakes of the world are putting out there? It makes me, it literally, I could go on forever. It pisses me off to no end. And I'm sure most of the listeners as well. No, I mean, it's so, what's so frustrating about him is he says all these things where he's like, oh, we need leadership that sets the right tone. He claims to be running to try to bring people together, but it's so clear that he's doing the opposite. There was an event in Iowa where Ramaswamy accused Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley

of being part of the modern KKK because he disagreed with something she said about her views on African-American voices in politics and other people of color in politics. And him saying he's running on uniting the country while calling Ayanna Pressley a member of the KKK is like so self-evidently divisive and pouring kerosene on the fire. It's ridiculous. And honestly, he's getting what he wants with us talking about it, him, right? Which is like also the thing that just frustrates the hell out of me. Something we learned, I think, the hard way in 2015 and 16 with Trump that we have to be careful about, but it doesn't mean you can let stuff like this slide. And, you know, President Biden wrote an op-ed today about the 60th

anniversary of the March on Washington. And I went back and read the speech this morning in preparation for this. And, you know, one thing that Martin Luther King said there that day was that Black folks and Black folks' allies have to operate on a higher plane of dignity and discipline when we are dealing with the issues of racism in this country. And I think Congresswoman Presley has tried her best to do that in the last couple of days around this. And I think it's incumbent on all of us to do that as well. I think back to um when i was running corey booker's campaign for president in 2020 we went and he gave a speech at the church in charleston where um dylan roof murdered nine people and um the families that showed the grace and forgiveness to dylan roof who didn't deserve it um but as a way to heal

themselves to heal their community that's the way that Black folks and anti-racists in America have lived for decades, centuries in this country. And it's the only way in some way, you know, to live as a Black person in this country or as an anti-racist ally. And so, you know, we can't let the vivakes of the world pull us down as hard as that is. You know, I, it really gives me pause to talk about it. But also, I understand calling out, you know, racism and behavior like that, where you see it is part of the job of being a good ally. And so I think, you know, that's what we're doing here, all at the same time trying to starve them with a little bit of oxygen, I hope to. Yeah, no, I hear you. Well, let's talk about the 60th anniversary of the March on Washington, because, you know, as this murder was happening,

tens of thousands of people are gathering in the same spot in Washington to talk about Dr. King's work and the need to continue it and not just commemorate it. And so there's obviously a legislative piece of that unfinished work. It includes voting rights, police reform, you know, a long list of things we need to get done through Congress. But, you know, there is also like moral work and work of leadership. And I know like you sort of references the rose-colored glasses version of Dr. King that people kind of talk about now, I don't think reflects the reality of how divisive his work was in terms of like the broader country at the time. And I know that I'm aware of sort of like how Dr. King was viewed and

how that work was talked about, but still like seeing how Trump and Vivek are talking about these issues and the way they are inflaming everyone makes me worry that, you know, the sort of like moral and cultural leadership we need to accomplish the rest of that legislative agenda is getting much more difficult because of them because of their presence and the way they're leading the conversation. I think that's absolutely right. And I think, you know, one of the things in the many errors that the vague maiden that clip that you ran, one of the biggest is that the dying embers of racism nice metaphor but live in the real world man um the the i think trump exposed a wound in some ways that um was always there and never healed uh not in some ways i think that's exactly what he did and now the vivakes of the world and ron desantis's of the world and

others are just uh pouring salt in it um to their for their political benefit in the Republican primary, at least. But it is just false that the legacy of racism in this country is dying. It is better. Don't get it twisted. It is better than it was 60 years ago when Dr. King stood at the Lincoln Memorial. But there's a lot of work left to do. And the only way, I'm obviously preaching to the choir here with you and probably with your listeners as well, but the only way to actually take on the

issues of racism is to acknowledge that fact. And it's exactly what the Republican Party in its modern form doesn't do and Democratic Party does. Yeah. And the frustrating trick that these Republicans always try to pull, and I saw this for nine years working for Obama, was whenever a black politician talks about racial injustice, you're called divisive. And the Republican Party settled on basically a narrative that Barack Obama was making racial division in this country worse, rather than just talking honestly about the challenges that everyone knew currently existed, right? Like Vivek and DeSantis and Trump,

they want to gloss over problems and do this kumbaya bullshit and pretend that, oh, we should just go back to being uniters like Dr. King once was, when the reality was in 1966, King had a 63% unfavorable rating. And in 1966 Harris poll, 50% of white Americans said King was hurting the civil rights effort more than he was helping it. So like that was the reality of fighting for justice at the time. And I do think that Trumpism and that wound that he has re-exposed is going to take us some time to clean up and fix, but I think we can do it. And we've seen in America that progress is not inevitable, but it's possible. Yeah. And you can be infuriating slow. South Carolina didn't make Martin Luther King Day a mandatory holiday until the year 2000. And the Super Bowl was moved out of Arizona

by the NFL in 1993 because Arizona had not yet made it a state holiday. So everyone thinks Colin Kaepernick was the first time that sports and racial politics became divisive. Absolutely not. Just read one book, guys. Okay. So you and I were talking this morning, there's a bunch of really important elections happening this year. The issue of abortion rights and access is going to be front and center in most of them. At last week's Republican debate, it was clear that Republicans are quite divided over abortion, especially over whether to support a federal abortion ban, which is very unpopular among a broader electorate, but popular among their base. The Republican National Committee chair, Ronna McDaniel, wants Republicans to do a better job articulating their position. Trump's former aide, Kellyanne Conway, accused Republicans

of panicking and burying their heads in the sand when it comes to abortion. In Virginia, Governor Glenn Youngkin apparently wants to win back control of the state's General Assembly by running on a 15-week abortion ban. Adisu, how do you think Republicans should take on this issue and run on it? I don't want to give them advice, but I think, I do think they're grasping for reasonableness here after decades of unreasonableness. And frankly, you know, the thing that Democrats need to do to give us some advice is we can't let them run away from their extremism for since 1970, since before 1973. But certainly even over the last couple of years, Trump himself said women should be punished, punished for seeking an abortion,

thrown in jail, whatever it may be. I don't even want to think about what he might want to do. We should tie that around the necks of all these guys. And all of them have expressed support for abortion bans at some level. But what I think they're doing is trying to find a position that is more tenable because they realize America is a pro-choice nation. America believes that the government should stay out of our bedrooms, our doctor's offices. And that is a fundamentally American libertarian, not in the partisan sense, but libertarian position. And so I don't know if they're going to be successful at this. I think their base is going to continue to pull them to the extremes here, but it's on us. If I would give, again, I'm going to give us

some advice. Don't let them do it. They are where they are and they have been. And most of these candidates, if not all of them, have been very explicit in public about their support for abortion bans, for no exceptions. And we have to make sure that holds through next year. Yeah. I mean, I think that every election boils down to sort of a conversation among the candidate and the campaign strategists about emphasis and how much to talk about one issue versus another. At some point in every campaign, if you're talking about it as some sort of social issue, some pollster will tell you, you should only be talking about the economy. We have to focus on this.

You know, we literally can't talk about anything else. How do you think that balance will go this time, seeing how many elections have been fought and won on abortion access recently? Yeah, I think, I mean, I think it's a false choice. I also think most people think it's a false choice. Now, also abortion is an economic issue, a family issue, as we all know. But I think if there's one thing I've been really surprised about over the last year and a half, and this is my own biases as a man as what have you just how potent the issue remains a year and a half after uh after the dobbs leak at least um but i shouldn't be surprised because the supreme court hasn't taken away a right you know the the

supreme court has been a progressive institution in the traditional sense since brown right that's seven years entire life of most of americans suddenly they're taking rights away and i don't think that sits right with um with most americans and i don't think that that was a flash in the pan 2022 thing to answer your question directly i think we need to talk directly and aggressively and a lot about abortion as both in and of itself and also illustrative of what Republican governance can be. And I saw I worked on some very, some elections last cycle where we figured out how to talk about abortion and the economy together, not just abortion, but a lot of these book bans and, you know, anti-woke Republican culture war issues by saying, look at what they're focused on versus

what we're focused on. Things might not be perfect for your pocketbook right now, but Joe Biden, Democratic Senator X, candidate for Governor Y, is at least trying to do the things that matter to you. Or Ron DeSantis, Carrie Lake, whoever else it may be, is focused on these things that are actually taking things away from you and not relevant to your life. I think that frame is going to be really important going into next year. So that's really interesting. So it's like part an extremism frame, but also like a, hey, Ron DeSantis is picking fights with fucking Mickey Mouse. Like, do you want some serious people? Is that kind of- Can I steal that one for an ad?

Sure. That's exactly right. Yeah, no, I mean- And the voters are just sick of that. They're like is dumb this is not they totally get it and um and particularly the you know non-republicans right independence of democrats and it also motivates it motivates democrats at the same time it persuades you know independence which i think is an important there aren't many issues or i shouldn't say that but it's important to try to find issues that do both at the same time. And abortion rights is definitely one of those. But this broader frame about, you know, Mickey Mouse against your gas bill or the price of insulin for your, you know, your diabetes is, I think, one that really works and resonates with you. That's great.

So you and I were talking earlier. You said there's some big elections coming up this year. We got the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, the Virginia Senate. There's Ohio abortion ballot measures and the Kentucky governor's races. You want to give us like kind of a sense of what we should be looking at? There are no off years, I'm told. I do think among many races, those that you just mentioned are going to be really, really important.

Ohio, I'll start there. We just had a couple of weeks ago, a big win, making sure that the threshold to change constitutional amendment in the state stays where it is. And now we're going to basically have what we had in Kentucky and Montana and Michigan last year, an abortion rights referendum on the ballot come November. Huge deal in a state that sure might be trending red. But as we saw in Kentucky and Kansas and places like that, this issue actually cuts through the noise and can maybe bring some people back towards the Democratic Party as we head towards- And a huge Senate race. I was going to say, as we head towards Sherrod Brown and other races in 24 and 26 and beyond.

Pennsylvania Supreme Court, something I'm really focused on here, very similar abortion, I think is going to be front and center in that race is a court that Democrats control right now, four to two, there was one death late last year. So control isn't technically up in the balance of the court. But, you know, one loss, we lost in 21 to see if we lose one more here. And in 23, we're on a knife's edge in a state that is the biggest swing state in the country. Obviously, implications for democracy, but also abortion and other issues. And then the Virginia, you mentioned it earlier with Youngkin, who I think is a dangerous fellow. He is Trumpism in a Patagonia vest. And if Democrats don't hold on to the state Senate and which is our last bulwark against unified Republican control in a blue state or certainly a

light blue state, Yunkin's going to take away God knows what abortion rates, probably top of the list. So it's no off years, man, no off years. We've got some big elections in some important States and I hope people are, are,

you know, paying attention and giving their money, thinking ahead, obviously, to the presidential and to next year and the Congress. But these elections are going to lay the groundwork for those. What do you make of Youngkin saying he wants to run on a 15-week ban with some exceptions? I mean, it seems like everywhere else that's viewed as a political loser, and there's an NBC story where they're kind of laying this out. You know, it's a good question, man. I think I think he's I know from reports, at least that he is harboring thoughts of running for president, whether that be in 28 or a late entry into 2024.

I think it is a litmus test issue for Republican primary voters to some extent. And, you know, the theory of the case for a young candidacy is Trumpism in a pretty package or a nicer package. And so abortion bans are part of that part of that package. So I think I think we have a lot. I think keeping putting Virginians first is most important here. We got to protect Virginians. And that means keeping state, the state Senate and winning back seats in the legislature, but they could have had to 24 and beyond. We are creating a monster if we let Glenn Young can have a political win. Yeah. And how are you feeling about Kentucky? I know they've got a big governor's race. Oh yeah. So we have a democratic governor in Kentucky for those. I know a great guy,

right for the state, right. Sort of of genuine Democrat in the old Southern Democrat mode, but not in the bad ways. And, but Daniel Cameron, I think similar to Youngkin, the attorney general, who's the Republican nominee, African-American guy. You probably remember him

from the Breonna Taylor episodes of 2020 and 2021, is a rising star, I think in the Republican party and has a real chance, a good, strong candidate. And so Governor Beshear, I think, he really needs our help, right? It is, like I said, one of the last bastions of Democratic governance in the South. And he is an incredibly strong candidate and a bulwark against some really bad stuff going on in Kentucky against a guy who we could be seeing bad stuff going on in Kentucky that, um, against the

guy who we could be seeing on a national stage in four years or eight years if we don't watch out. Yeah. We got to win that one. Yeah. Andy Beshear is such an interesting candidate. You almost forget that he's there in Kentucky and you're like, you don't want to tell anybody. Cause like, let him fly under the radar. Let him exactly. Don't talk too loud about it because let him do his thing in Kentucky. Cause he's doing good things for us. OK, that's it for the news for today. If what we just talked about in the prospect of watching more of these Republican debates has you less than excited, I have a solution for you, which is to join the Friends of the Pod community. You can watch the debates with all of us on Discord and not with Elon Musk.

You also get bonus content and ad free Pod Save America episodes. So go to Crooked.com slash friends to subscribe. Also, we've got a Labor Day sale going at Crooked Media here for merch. 15% off, tons of new stuff. Go to crooked.com slash store. We're going to take a quick break now. When we come back, you'll hear my interview with Dr. Heather Boucher. She's one of Biden's top economic advisors.

So stick around for that. I am thrilled to welcome Dr. Heather Boucher to the pod. She serves on President Biden's Council of Economic Advisors and is the chief economist for the Investing in America Cabinet. Welcome to the Crooked Media offices. It's a thrill to be here today. Thank you so much. Is there a special Investing in America Cabinet. Welcome to the Crooked Media offices. It's a thrill to be here today. Thank you so much. Is there a special Investing in America Cabinet room? It is probably Natalie's office. So yes, there is probably a special room. There are a lot of posters and things for all the tours. Lanyards?

I don't know that there's lanyards, but there might be hats. You're going to need to get some more swag. We had Kirk Campbell on the show the other day, and he said that basically he went to the Biden summit with the presidents of Korea and Japan just so he could steal stuff. Wow. So you got to get on that. Okay. On it. That's a pro tip from Kirk.

Okay. Let's talk inflation, if that's okay. So I know you spent a lot of time combating inflation. It's sort of the number one goal. I am not an economist. I am so not an economist that I majored in philosophy in college. So I'm hoping you can explain this to me as you would an idiot. It seems to me there's kind of two elements. The first was let's fix all these supply chains that got broken during the pandemic. I remember when they were like, you could see the ships waiting off of Los Angeles because they couldn't get to the ports. People couldn't get goods. The prices went up, right? Makes sense. I know you've been untangling

those. And then there's the Fed, the Federal Reserve, which has been increasing interest rates, which I think makes money more expensive, right? It makes it harder to buy a home or just more expensive and sort of like a blunt force instrument to cool off the economy. Is there more that I'm missing about sort of how you're approaching this? That's a great summary. Let's remember that the reason that we had those supply chain challenges in the first place is because we had this global pandemic that upended the economy in the United States, but also globally. It meant when a factory shut down halfway around the world, American firms couldn't get the parts they needed, and then consumers couldn't get the things that they wanted, and that helped fuel price increases. And then, of course,

the war in the Ukraine, which upended global energy prices, and that caused a lot of the inflation. So your points in terms of, okay, so we had this inflation, how did we get through it? You know, key was getting those supply chains working again. It was absolutely imperative. You know, ports here in LA, all around the country, the president did a lot of work to help the ports run more smoothly to sort of get those back on track. And there's a lot of data and indicators now that show that supply chains are running back to normal in many parts of the country. And so that certainly is a key reason why inflation has come down so much from last summer. It has come down by over two thirds. So we really have made a lot of progress there. And then of course, the Fed has done its part. It's in charge of price

stability. And they've been raising interest rates, and that, you know, has had some of the bigger structural price issues that families face, as well as all the work that he's done to make sure that businesses are competing more fairly, which again is also about some of the structural challenges with prices in the economy. I'm sure you loved it the other day when he said the Inflation Reduction Act doesn't really reduce inflation. It's all about green investment. As his economist, it is definitely about green investment. It is also about reducing prices. So let me be very clear. Now, the president is, of course, never wrong, but... Of course. But he does like policy jazz at these fundraisers. He gets a little bit of

those things. Well, I think that he is very right to focus on the fact that with that piece of legislation, we are making historic investments in clean energy that will reduce prices for families. It'll make the transition to clean energy as we build this new clean energy economy is going to lead to lower prices and prices that are less volatile, super important. And there's all of these subsidies for consumers to help people make that transition and for businesses to make those investments. So he is, of course, right there, but that is about prices. And then, of course, there's a lot of things in that legislation that were

explicitly reducing prices for families in terms of healthcare. Right, right. One thing that's really challenging for consumers on the West Coast, I think you're from Seattle, right? I am. Right. So you understand this, you know, Seattle, Portland, cities all across California are dealing with shortages of housing and affordability crises as a result. That means rents are going up. It means homeownership feels completely out of reach for a lot of younger people. I saw a report in Axios this morning about how apartment construction

starts in major West Coast cities are way, way down in 2023 because interest rates make, you know, getting a loan to do so more expensive. There's increased material costs that comes on top of lots of parochial barriers that I'm sure you know about. And in California, you have NIMBYs pretending they want to, you know, help homeless people, but then blocking, you know, the construction of affordable housing in their neighborhood because they don't want their home price to go down. So I'm curious what the administration can do to make sure that things that are happening today, like interest rate increases that are designed to reduce inflation don't lead to more inflation down the road if there's less housing stock. Well, it's a great question. And I love the way you're pulling together both the short term and the long term. So certainly, housing remains a challenge for millions of families, and higher interest rates does make it harder to afford a home. The president has had a robust housing agenda, making it more possible, especially for renters to have access to affordable housing. It is certainly a big family budget item. But we have to be thinking,

as the Fed is doing its job to make sure that we're lowering prices, the immediate issue of making sure that things slow down a little bit, that we get a little bit less demand, is going to help the whole economy have those lower prices that we've seen over the last year, which is going to be really beneficial and is already beneficial to consumers all across the country. I think one of the other challenges that we saw during the pandemic in terms of inflation connected to different ways that people were thinking about homes during the pandemic is so many people wanted more space. They didn't want to be living in little apartments, which also is a part of the reason why we've seen that shift from services towards goods is people, you know, wanted more outdoor space. So they were purchasing a whole bunch of different kinds of things. And we're seeing some of the reversal of that over

time as well. Got it. I remember, you know, there are some unforeseen consequences from these sort of rate increases. Everyone probably remembers the Silicon Valley bank collapse. Basically, they took in all these deposit money. They invested it in long-term securities, like 30-year treasury bills. People said, hey, we need our money back now because we can't get more VC cash to fund our startup. They had to sell these securities at a loss.

Fast forward and the bank's insolvent. Do you guys feel confident that unforeseen consequences from these rate increases like that have kind of been shaken out of the system or there's a way to kind of see around the curve and see what might be out there? Because I remember there was a moment after SVB collapsed where people were like, oh my God, these are the unforeseen consequences of a massive rate hike we've all been waiting for. It must be the first of many dominoes. Luckily, that doesn't seem to be the case. It was like what, Signature Bank, I think one other bank, Regional Bank went down, but that was it, I think. So, I mean, here's the thing. We have had very low interest rates for

a very long time. And so you say unforeseen consequences, but certainly people that track this knew that there were certainly people that track this knew that there were certainly people that had really put a lot of emphasis on the fact that rates would continue to stay low. And when that didn't happen, that could upend their business models. Certainly the president has been very, very clear that the Fed is independent. We can't comment on Fed policy. That must be so annoying for him. Well, it's also good because it's somebody else's responsibility to deal with that part of the economy. So certainly there's a number of

constraints there. But one of the things that I just came from the Jackson Hole Conference, where the Federal Reserve has this annual conference where central bankers from all around the world meet and have these conversations. And I had an opportunity to talk to a lot of folks about this very question. And I think one of the really important things to know is it was because of decisive action on the part of the administration and the financial regulators that were able to get through the situation that happened in the spring so well. It did not have the contagion that it could have had. So that's really an important fact.

And then, of course, on the other side, the administration has been in so many ways supporting investment, particularly in clean energy, to provide some of that access to capital or those opportunities, making it a little bit cheaper for firms to invest that hopefully can make it still possible for that innovation to occur. One of the very first paper that was presented at the

Jacksonville Conference was on the connection between innovation and monetary policy. So certainly something on people's minds right now. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So when I was in government, one of the constant risks to the economy seemed to be the government in the form of, you know, intractable fights, government shutdowns, etc. We seem to always be on the cusp of another government shutdown, including maybe next month. Are you able to quantify the economic impact from a government shutdown? I don't know. The duration probably matters, but a week, two weeks, three weeks? Well, it certainly has a negative effect on the economy. That is very, very clear. And it has a negative effect on the families and the individuals that are directly affected by a shutdown. Everything from people not being able to use national parks to not being able to get access to really important government services, or everything in between, there are definitely negative economic consequences.

I think it was, this is something we spent a lot of time thinking about over the course of the spring with the debt ceiling challenge. And the fact that they were, that the administration working with Congress was able to get to a solution that allowed us to not default on U.S. debt was such a historic and important accomplishment. But it is really quite challenging that we keep coming so close to this time and time again. I would agree there. Yeah. It seems like there's got to be a better way to run a railroad than the last few years. Certainly. But you also need consensus on what it is that government is trying to do. You need to try to continue to forge, you know, it has to be bipartisan at the end of the day, consensus on what is government for, what kind of his economic policy over the past couple of years is put together bipartisan legislation that not only addresses real needs, but is able to do so in a way that was fiscally responsible. We paid for, you know, the president

was able to pay for what he did and actually reduced deficits over time. And then, of course, in the Inflation Reduction Act, make significant investments in the ability of the treasury to actually bring in the money. And, you know And one of the things that I think economists are increasingly discussing, and certainly many of the folks that I'm talking to are increasingly clear on, is that we definitely need to find ways to raise taxes, particularly for those at the top, and to make sure that our corporate tax system is bringing in the revenue that we need in a way that allows us to make the investments that we need to make to keep the economy moving forward. Yeah, and it seems

particularly difficult to tax wealthy people who are not necessarily earning a lot of income, right, but are, say, billionaires because they started a company that we all use every day for everything like Amazon. Exactly. But that has certainly been a big focus of this president, right? All of the investments that are happening right now in the Internal Revenue Service, making sure that they're able to do their job, they're able to enforce the laws on the books, making sure that people pay their fair share of taxes. And then of course, the corporate minimum tax, really making sure that those at the top are paying their fair share has been a priority. I think we have a lot further to go on that though. Yeah. Another thing we hear about a lot from listeners is student loans and

sort of a lot of back and forth on the issue. I imagine people are pretty confused at this point, right? President Biden's plan for student debt relief was blocked by the Supreme Court after six Republican led states whined about it and filed suit because they thought it would hurt corporate profits. I believe borrowers have to start paying interest payments again starting later this week. I know the administration recently launched the Save Student Loan Repayment Plan. Can you help us understand how that works, who can apply, and what the process looks like going forward? Because I also saw in the Wall Street Journal today that four in 10 borrowers had their loans transferred from one service provider to another debt servicer in March. And like, that's got to be incredibly

confusing to get an email from some company you've ever heard of saying you owe them a bunch of money. I wouldn't necessarily pay that right away. Certainly. So this has been, you know, let's start from the, you know, the first principle here, which is that student debt is an enormous challenge for millions of families. And it is, it was really important, especially during the pandemic, when so many people weren't working that there was, you know, people didn't have to pay those loans for that period of time, getting that system back up and running, which is what was a part of the debt ceiling compromise that happened last spring, that that is now happening starting next month, that is an important next step. And the Department of Education has been working on on-ramps to make that easier for folks and to make sure they have

the information. I wanted to get out my notes here because people will, you know, if you have student loans, going to studentaid.gov will have information on how people can access both the new SAVE program, which is a program that helps people be able to pay their loans off relative to how much income they have and their family structure, not just how much their loan balance is. It's a discretionary income, right? Yeah. So it helps because if you go to college, but maybe this year you're not making as much money or you're taking time off because you're a new parent or you're moving to a new city and so maybe you're not working because your spouse got a job in a different city or whatever it is, making sure that those loan repayments are really consistent with the borrower's family income and their family composition, that's what the SAVE program is all about.

It's a part of a longstanding program for income-based repayment so that you're paying relative to what you can pay. But the Department of Education has really worked hard to make that program more effective, make it easier for folks, and make sure that it really is calibrated to family incomes. So folks that have loans should go to studentaid.gov and information. I know I've actually been hearing from a number of friends in recent weeks who've gotten letters about their student aid and a few of them have actually had some of their loans forgiven. And we're certainly seeing that happening all across the country. Yeah. Another pretty exciting piece of the IRA was giving the government some limited ability to negotiate down the cost of prescription drugs. I saw that later this week, the administration is going to list the 10 prescription drugs that were selected for Medicare price

negotiations. I believe you probably can't talk about those yet. If you can, maybe we sidebar that. We do some stock trades. I will not be mentioning. Okay, that's fine. We will not insider trade on the show. What's going to happen though, this will lead to direct negotiations between Medicare and these drug manufacturers without naming the drugs, obviously. I was kidding. How does this work exactly? Is this like buying a car? You're like, I'll give you five bucks. They say, I'll give you 10. You put on your jacket, you walk away. How does that happen? Well, so this is something that the Department of Health and

Human Services has been working on. It's a really important part of the Inflation Reduction Act. It's one of the reasons why it will reduce inflation over time. The United States has been an outlier in not allowing the Medicare program to be able to negotiate over drug prices so that they can pull those prices down. Again, I don't have the list of drugs, and I would refer to you, my colleagues, for all the stops and puts, you know, the ins and outs on exactly how that is happening. One of the exciting things to have seen is that, you know, the president made it clear that lowering drug prices was an important priority. Capping the price of insulin for Medicare recipients at $35 a month was an important step taken. And then seeing private actors come in and say, hey, we're going to do that as well. You know, really trying to get these markets to make them work for people.

You know, we haven't gone through the three planks of Bidenomics yet, but this is an opportunity to bring in the third one, which is around market structure and competition, making sure that markets work. And that's what this is about, making sure that when you go out and buy drugs, or when you're, for Medicare, our grandparents or parents go out and buy drugs, that they're getting a fair price is such an important economic issue for families. And something that I don't think we think enough about, that part of government's role is making sure that the rules of the game are fair, that those markets are really working and giving a really big insurance company the power to negotiate so that they're not just a price taker, but that they're able to say, hey, I could, you know, I have all of these customers, you can make this much money is a really important piece of the puzzle and a significant economic step forward. Yeah. And it's a big deal. And anyone who's been in politics for as long as I have,

how hard Democrats have fought for this exact, or at least fought for this principle for a very long time. You mentioned Bidenomics several times. What's the pitch? We have a listener who has a friend who is on the fence about voting for Joe Biden. Can you give him the pitch for what he's done and what you guys will do in a second term if President Biden is reelected? Certainly. So, you know, one of the great things about, I think, about Joe Biden, the president, is that he keeps at the core of his economic policy each and every day, how he can grow, build, sustain, enlargen America's middle class, create that economic security, create that economic opportunity. And so all of our economic policy has been focused on making

sure that, in his words, we're building an economy from the middle out and bottom up. And that's what Bidenomics is. It's, well, okay, well, so those are words, but how do you actually grow and support and sustain the middle class? And it's about making those investments in America and all across the country. As the president likes to say, making the investments in American people is one of the best investments we can make. So everything from making sure that we have the roads and bridges, to the broadband, to the structures around us that make the economy work, making sure that government is making those investments in a way that crowd in private sector investments, which we've seen so much of over the past year.

It's been an incredible year. A lot of factories, a lot of battery factories opening. Huge investments skyrocketing off the charts. If I could show charts on a podcast, I would show you this chart where investment just, you know, it's gone sky high. That's really important because that's not just government. That's private actors saying, oh, I see where we need to go. We're going to make those investments. Well, from those investments will come the good jobs and the economic benefits for communities.

So that's the first pillar. But the second is making sure that throughout we're doing it through empowering and educating workers. If you want to grow the middle class, you need to make sure that workers have those opportunities, but they are empowered. This is the most pro-union president in our lifetimes. And, you know, making sure that we are investing in education and training and all the skills that workers need to be able to succeed in the labor market. And then third is this question of making sure that the rules are fair, that there is fair competition, that the market structures actually work. that there is fair competition, that the market structures actually work. So he's thought about it from the perspective that what we make and how we make it matters.

What we make here in this country in America and how that process happens, that is really the cornerstone to economic security because the vast majority of us get the vast majority of our income from holding down a job. And so that's how we're going to grow the middle class. In terms of the future, the president came in during an economic crisis, was able to work across the aisle to put in place historic legislation to not only deal with the urgent crisis in front of us, the pandemic and the ensuing recession, but really set in place the foundations for economic growth for decades to come,

particularly through investing in new technologies like semiconductors, but also in helping us build a clean energy economy. I'm a labor economist, and the one thing that is really clear, if you care about what happens to labor in America over the next 20 years, is how we build that

clean energy economy. Yeah. Because that's where investment's going to come from. It's where jobs are going to come from. And it's where American competitiveness is going to come from. Unions want to make sure these are union jobs when we're starting. They're good jobs. They're union jobs.

We have that opportunity. But also that we have those jobs. That we live in a world now where we're all the victim of global events in terms of how much we pay for energy. There is a future that is not that far down the road where prices can be less volatile, where energy can be cheaper. And we have the opportunity to manufacture it, to build those things, build battery plants, build wind turbines, build solar panels in ways that can be cost effective, but also doing great jobs here in the United States. It's a good pitch. To your argument, though, about how globalized these problems are, I believe your colleague, the Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo, is in China for meetings today.

We're recording this on Monday. She's going to talk to government officials, business leaders. I think she's going to Shanghai Disney to just let them know that Ron DeSantis is coming and you got to be prepared for a really dumb fight. President Biden recently referred to China's economic problems as, quote, a ticking time bomb. Economists thought that China's economy would drive a third of global economic growth this year. That's getting revised down left and right. You see investors pulling money out of Chinese markets. There's a lot of concern about ghost real estate and these buildings that were built and no one wants to live in them. And they're getting, you know, one of the biggest developers might have defaulted on some coupons. The question is, you know, how concerned are you about this impacting U.S. consumers? You know, we see like China's, I think, hiding economic data. You were just with a group of the smartest economists in the world. Like, was this front and center? Interesting. At the conference, there was not as much discussion on China as we just had here, as you just sort of brought up.

I mean, it was really, there was a lot of, I mean, a lot of really important things were discussed, but it was, you know, really about how countries have recovered from the global pandemic and that shock and how we are thinking about supply chains, but there wasn't so much a China-specific focus on some of those big questions moving forward. We live in a global economy. What happens in China certainly does matter. And certainly the extent to which they are growing or not growing has a variety of implications. I mean, one of them that has become a little bit more potent since the war in Ukraine, where we've all been thinking about energy prices because they've been so volatile, is if they're growing more, then that could be putting more demand on global prices.

If they're not growing as much, maybe there's a little bit of easing. What does that do to prices in Europe as we're sort of looking to the next winter? So there's that. But then, of course, they're a really important producer. They're a really important importer. So we do need to be thoughtful about it. I mean, I think our job as economists, we're always looking around the corner to see, okay, what are some of the risks and challenges that are going to affect U.S. consumers? okay, what are some of the risks and challenges that are going to affect U.S. consumers? And so China is certainly on the watch screen right now. I think, too, that there's been so many, especially with the CHIPS and Science Act, so much of a discussion about where we are moving in terms of new technologies,

what that bilateral relationship is. My colleagues have made, across the administration, have been very clear that we value that trade relationship, but we need to make sure that it works for the American people. Jake Sullivan, the national security advisor, has focused on making sure that we have this foreign policy for the middle class, that we're making sure that as we are thinking about our foreign policy and thinking about our trading relationships, that they are not just good for trade in a general sense, but that we are really focusing

on how is this helping us grow, build, and sustain and support the American middle class and American jobs? And how is it creating that economic security that comes from national security? So I'm sure that those will be a number of the issues that the secretary will be talking about there in between Disney rides, which I hope she gets to do a little bit of. Yeah, I hope that's fun. I've never been to Shanghai Disney. Is it the same? I have no idea. Is it the same thing somewhere else? Who knows? We'll call Bob Iger. I bet there's princesses though. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And there's got to be a frozen category. Final, most important question. There have been some articles about how the Barbie movie and concert tours by Beyonce and Taylor Swift may or may not be propping up the entire global economy.

Do you have an opinion on this? Is this something you can quantify? Well, I, you know, it is really exciting to see the power of women and their purchases having an effect on what economists and economic commentators are talking about all over the country and all over the world. You know, we've seen a lot post-pandemic. People are really excited about getting back out there and, you know, going to places with a lot of people and doing all these things. I think that is certainly a piece of it.

But it just also speaks to the buying power of women and the things that these incredible global superstars. You have seen bump-ups in particular places as those tours have come through, and it's had a big effect on hotel rooms and spending and all the swag and all the different things that people buy alongside of it. But yeah, that's all I can say on that. Billion dollar tour. It's a really big deal. And these are incredible performers. Yeah. Keep them out there. We need them to rescue the economy. Dr. Heather Boucher, thank you so much for doing the show. It's great to meet you. And thanks for the work you're doing. Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Crooked Media's own Hallie Kiefer is back. Great to see you again. The last time she

humiliated me in front of the audience because I forgot the name of the lawyer on The Simpsons. We really humiliated yourself. Yeah, that's you're right. She's back to hurt me again, though. Just kidding. The new Trump mugshot dropped. Yes. The Internet responded with some of the most cringeworthy merch known to man.

So we had to make a game out of it. We had to. What do we got? Yeah. Whether you believe he's innocent or you've been alive at any point in the last 1,024 days. One thing's for certain, hitching your wagon to Donald Trump is a surefire way to make money, not make meaning or a better future or a country your children would be proud

of, but money nonetheless. Which is why we're going to play a game called The Price is Wrong, Bitch! A title which we owe, of course, to the Adam Sandler classic, Happy Gilmore. RIP to Bob Barker, who, as Twitter also pointed out, got as close as he could to 100 without going over. So in honor of Bob Barker's demise and Trump's mugshot, gentlemen, I'm going to show you actual items of Trump mugshot merch available for purchase on Etsy. And you will have to guess its price without, of course, using the price rules without going over. Beautiful.

Okay. Whoever correctly guesses the price of the most items wins an actual Trump mugshot souvenir that you will have to buy yourself because Kirk is not paying me enough to do that. Are you ready? We're ready, baby. All right.

First up, we have Blue Steel. It is, of course, a t-shirt with trump's mugshot and a picture of naturally derrick zoolander and hansel doing the blue steel pose from zoolander and it is captured rigged election call that blue steel a classic reference that transcends time and taste gentlemen what is your bid for blue steel far away uh 10.99 great okay 29.99 you know it a d suit it goes to you because again you did not go over it is 24.99 okay that's so much it is simply too much you did did go over. Okay. You know what? We'll rotate who goes first because then you can do the one cent over thing. Yeah, exactly. Also, I should inflate all my guesses because these are people taking.

Well, you'd think so. Oh, but maybe not. Okay. You'd think so. And then you will see some prices and be like, boy, things over at Etsy are. Getting wild over there. Catty Wampus. I don't know if that's exactly the word, but next up we have

the Trump mugshot velveteen blanket. Snuggle up under the watchful eye of your king, Donald Trump, with his velveteen blanket featuring his glowering face. It's available in three sizes, so I picked the largest size because for some reason that seemed less sad.

The idea that you might have someone else there with you after purchasing this. So for the 60 inch by 80 inch Donald Trump mugshot velvety blanket, name your bid, Tommy, please. I think that my California King costs $49.99. Okay.

All right. Adiso? See, I'm going for exploitative pricing here. How about $60? Now it is $44.99. Oh. So what happens if the price is right? It's a steal. No pun intended.

Literally. What happens if both of you are over? I've actually never seen prices right. I'm so sorry. I think we both lose. I think we both lose. So I would say both losers. You've never seen prices right?

You know, I was more of like, if I was homesick, it was more of a madlock afternoon for me i never saw it yeah okay um now this is a natural um next we have the trump mugshot shot glass pretty self-explanatory take yourself on vacation with a trump mugshot shot glass how much is this bad boy? Adisu, you are up. By the way, I absolutely love the hype thing in the background here. It's perfect. Perfect. I'm going to go with 10 bucks. Okay, great.

Tommy? See, I'm thinking you can get a shot of rail tequila at Senior Frogs for like three bucks and that this thing is like $3.99. Again, Adisu, you are closer. It is, for some reason, $11.19. Jesus Christ. Couldn't tell you why, to what end. However, he is absolutely crushing you, Tommy.

I'm so sorry. We have a couple more. Hold this L. You still have time to not only catch up, but win. Great, thank you. Next time we have the Trump Bad Girls Club t-shirt. Oh, sweet Jesus, no. Yes, featuring Trump's mugshot along with similarly iconic mugshots of Lindsay Lohan

and Paris Hilton. This t-shirt is memorable because it's the item we found that part of me honestly wants to purchase. I won't, though. Or will I? No, I won't. Gentlemen, please bid away. Tommy, we're back to you. I think I would wear this. I know.

$14.99. Okay, great. I'm doing it. I'm doing $15. Sorry. I know it's more than that. Again, it is $22.59 at D-Suit once again. I'm getting smoked. And I would want to say we were potentially going to do two rounds, like both a pro-Trump round and a resistance round. And what is, I think, perhaps scary about the impending election is they were indecipherable. It was celebrating. It was like pro-Trump, but yet celebrating him being in prison. So the fact that it was unclear, well, something for you guys to solve on the pod.

I just want to flag that now. Next up, something a little more interesting. This is the Guilty Pleasure Wine. This is a bottle of wine. Are we sure it's wine? Well, there's no proof. There's no proof the liquid in this bottle is wine. Thank you for flagging.

It could simply be poison or nothing. You were buying. It's really for the bottle. So I don't know if you're like drinking right away. It has Trump's mugshot. It's called guilty pleasure. It's described as a bold blend of racketeering and arrogance. You can also, while you're at it, get a Rudy Giuliani or a Mark Meadows bottle, which is insane.

Mark Meadows bottle. Who wants that? Please submit your bids. Could you imagine opening up your box and getting your Mark Meadows bottle? Just being so disappointed. Just like, oh, man. Just cuddling up in your Trump mugshot velveteen blanket all alone, I imagine. Please, if you would submit your bid, go ahead.

I mean, this is, I'm going to go two buck. Okay. Chuck. Okay, Tommy, I really, I have faith that you can get one of these i'm gonna go with 9.99 okay i get a d so it is the winner it is 650 so in fact our cheapest item so far something that you put into your body oh that doesn't seem good that doesn't seem good at all only two more only two more now it's too late to win, Tommy, but to either stop overthinking it or start overthinking it. The opposite of whatever you're doing right now.

Thank you. Will do. Next up, another t-shirt. You can have a whole wardrobe if you really wanted to, but why? This one has Trump's mugshot with a phrase, grab him by the penal code. My question about this is, what side is this for? Okay, because if I like Trump, I'm like, well, I don't like him going to prison. If I don't like Trump, why would I want

to grab him by the penal anything? What maniac would purchase this? We don't know the reason. Ours is not to reason why. Ours is meant to do or die. Or in this case, guess the price of this t-shirt. Adisu, I think you're up again, right? Am I first? I don't remember, but I really don't want this. I want to lose this one, but I'll go $19.99. Okay. I want to say I've designed some t-shirts in my day. All of these is what you're saying?

I made my friend, they're pegging out here, t-shirt back in the day. You know Show Me Equal. I made that for him. This poor model who had this shirt sort of like AI imposed on her chest and had no idea. I feel for her. I'm going to say $1,250. Okay, great. Now, there are two different.

I'm so sorry. Which one was yours again? $20. Okay. Again, he did win. It is 24-30. He's sweeping this last... I am dominating the... Last one.

Unbelievable. Last one, and I think what's great about it is it's an item that I don't know how you would ever guess the price of this. It's not something like a t-shirt. Oh, no, no, no. You gotta come to some black homes. Okay, no, no, no. You got to come to some black homes. OK, great.

Oh, good. OK, good. All right. OK, well, then I think, you know, finally, God has abandoned us long ago. So in these trying times, place your faith in someone who might be able to do a little something about it. Prayer candles. Oh, man. Fulton County District Attorney Fonny Willis now available in prayer candle form.

Hey, worth a shot. I'm ready to pay. Oh, sorry. He goes form. Hey, worth a shot. I'm ready to pay. Oh, sorry. He goes first. Tommy, you are up. Have you ever lit a prayer candle perhaps to bring Trump down? I mean. No, I've, I've, no, I've, um, no.

Yeah. Well, you know, again, I was like, of all of these, I don't know how you will price this. So definitely, you know, I've lit some, some candles in some churches, but not like this. Uh, this one. Let's go. go come on you can do this buddy uh eleven dollars okay great okay not bad not bad i'm ready to pay like 199 for this that's 199 but i'm gonna guess like 25 bucks okay we finally have a winner, Tommy. I would say like a winner, by which I mean you got one.

It isn't that the white man's win. You know what I mean? You got one and in my mind, well, you won. And you see, you of course actually won the game. But Tommy, a round of applause for a good try. And you finally got one. What was the price? Well, it was on sale for $16.20, originally $18. So it's actually only 10% off.

So in case you're like, I don't know, but that 10%, get it now. Get it while it's hot. Can you send me the link for this after the show? I will send all of them to you. I will buy it for you. Text me your address. I lost. I got smoked.

I'll buy you four of them. I think I lost by four or five. I think you have to. Yeah. We'll all light them in. Fingers crossed. Again, maybe it'll help. We don't know. Well, Hallie, thank you for

helping me show my ass to the audience again. It's always a pleasure, Tom. It really is. Adisu, thank you for doing the show. It was my pleasure. I had a blast. You did a great job. That was incredible. Thank you. I'm good at the price is right. And thank you again to Heather Boucher for, boy,

wait until she finds out how this, her interview ended, what was followed by it. But that's all we got for this week and we'll talk to

you guys next week. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our producers are

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