Pod Save America - Trump Wins Another Debate

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

Seven Republicans take the stage for the second primary debate, and they all manage to lose to the guy who isn't there. Jon, Jon, and Dan react to all the canned lines, missed opportunities, and—yes—awkward sex jokes that made this a night to forget. Meanwhile, the front-runner grovels for the UAW endorsement in an appearance at a non-union shop—just a day after being found liable for massive fraud in New York. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast.

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. We just watched the second Republican debate at the Ronald Reagan Library in California, right here in the state of California.

That was quite a debate. Quite a debate, guys. If you missed the debate, which I hope you did, here's just a flavor of what it was like. And I will say something. I think you have more than time to explain your point. Well, I was interrupted by a lot of people here, and I want to be respectful, because I believe these are people, but I do not believe

in these. We're sitting here in the Reagan Library. In the honor of Ronald Reagan's library, if I may. Tim, from one admirer of Ronald Reagan to another. From one admirer of Reagan to another. We cannot sit and violate Reagan's 11th commandment. Let's have a policy debate.

Let us have a policy debate. Let's have a policy debate. And the right answer is we need to declare independence for China. And I will see that through. Worse than I remember. None of you would suck Reagan's cock the way I would. I'd get the job done. I'd get it done.

We should point out that that was one of the more exciting parts of the debate. Yeah, it was real slug. General impressions. Dan? I like him. General impressions. Dan? I like them.

We're a little punchy here. It's late at night. We're tired. We're bored. We're drinking. I don't know what anyone was doing. The moderators, the candidates. It was a giant waste of time.

And I was offended as a television viewer and a political professional because I don't know what any of them are doing. I want to read you a statement about the debate. Okay. Tonight's GOP debate was as boring and inconsequential as the first debate. And nothing that was said will change the dynamics of the primary contest being dominated by President Trump. The RNC should immediately put an end to any further primary debates. by President Trump. The RNC should immediately put an end to any further primary debates. Agree with the Trump campaign senior advisor,

Chris LaCivita. This is like when somebody reads something from the Unabomber manifesto and it's like, it was the Unabomber. Now, how do you feel? I mean, I haven't agreed with any statement tonight more than that. Yeah, what a waste of fucking time.

I mean, we'll get to Nikki Haley. Nikki Haley seemed to have a plan agreed with any statement tonight more than that yeah what a waste of fucking time i mean no i mean like we'll get to nikki haley nikki haley seemed to have a plan and actually do something while she was standing there for two hours again on earth too yeah i mean it's like a when there's like another republican primary and uh with just with the people that were on the show no i i don't i'm not i'm not defending it robert costa reporter at cbs tweeted lots of angst tonight among my top gop sources about this debate donors concerned flurry of texts questions about where this race goes from here they wonder can anybody have a breakout moment no the answer is no it goes from here here yeah we are where we have been for months with

donald trump winning easily and no one trying to beat him. It was wild. Like there was a little more, they leaned in a little harder on the Trump attacks tonight. On one thing, him not being at the debate, the absolute stupidest thing in the world. Donald Trump was found guilty of fraud yesterday. No one mentioned it. He threatened to kill the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff this weekend.

Didn't come up. Moderator didn't bring it out. Several of them know personally. Just on a human level. It's really unbelievable. DeSantis went after Trump a little on abortion. For a second. He said, I wish he was at the debate

to defend his comments. And their favorite thing, they all go was at the debate to defend his comments. Right, right, right. And their favorite thing, they all go after him on adding to the debt. To the Republicans on that stage, the worst sin that Donald Trump committed in four years as president is that he was a little profligate. Is that why those people were trying to rip the cops limb from limb? Was it the deficit of the out years? Is that what it was? I limb from limb was it was it the deficit of the out years is that what it was i didn't know what it was uh so let's go through candidate by candidate it was a terrible

debate like there was nothing uh there's nothing really interesting about it but keep listening but keep listening well we'll get into it ron desantis uh first of all it took uh i counted 16 minutes into the debate uh for Ron DeSantis to even speak it didn't even seem like he was there and then best 60 minutes he's had in months and then finally finally he spoke and this is what he said where's Joe Biden he's completely missing in action from leadership and you know who else is missing in action? Donald Trump is missing in action. He should be on this stage tonight. He owes it to you to defend his record where they added $7.8 trillion to the debt.

So that was Ron's big moment. What did you guys think about Ron DeSantis tonight, huh? It's just... It's nothing. It's just nothing. This guy... No one has told him in debate prep to fix the face stuff? I don't think it's fixable. Or the voice? Can't fix the face, can't fix the voice?

Well, none of those. Thank you. First of all, it's a hard thing. These people in the debate prep with Ron DeSantis, he may not be a person, but maybe they are. And it's a tough thing to bring up. Hey, we think one of our problems is your face and the noises that it makes when it communicates that's a tough thing to fix every single answer he finishes he just sits there and he gives this weird weird

half grin half smirking for the camera it's very uncomfortable they're all very rehearsed his cadence is very rehearsed even that joe biden line was all very rehearsed and they all of them have this way of speaking these debates tim scott does it vivake does it ronda santos does it uh uh nikki haley does they all do it which is this kind of like 90s style sentences like we're gonna take them down and go up to the top and they they want us to they want us to give up well we're not gonna give in and you can't surrender because of my strength. And we're going to have victory, not victimhood.

And it just doesn't work. We're going to turn up the heat and turn this camp around. And see, that was one that worked. I'm really glad you brought it up. That's a good example of how it can work. Famously in Iowa in 2007, 16 years ago before the iPhone, it was a really good moment. I think you are correct that a lot of them do that. But DeSantis is the worst.

There's like way too much alliteration. All of it sounds canned. Like Trump's attack on DeSantis is that he is a like of Washington. He's part of the swamp. And everyone's like, well, that's weird because he's like governor of Florida. But he sounds like a Washington. No one on that stage sounds like a watch, except maybe Mike Pence sounds like a Washington politician more than Ron DeSantis. Yeah. And it's, it is really effective too, because all Ron DeSantis wants to do is sit in a room and work really hard on the sentence.

He's going to reuse to rebut the argument that he pre-plans everything he says and sounds like an automaton and he can't get out of it. he just and and he had his strategy tonight was he kept going after the dc elites like someone must have told him you got to be you got to get your outsider status back so he every single answer he hit the dc elites what was that you know who people don't think it's a dc elite donald trump right that's why it's just a weird. This is true of every single person. Donald Trump is up by 30 points in Iowa and 30 points in New Hampshire. But in the CBS poll that came out yesterday, 80% of the voters in both of those states are open to someone other than Trump. And no one tried to do anything about that dynamic. No one tried to do anything about that dynamic.

It seems like, cause I think they don't know why people, why that many people are open to someone besides Trump. Like they haven't figured out. They haven't tried. They haven't tried a single argument. Yeah. They have the ideas.

The idea that spent too much money, spent too much money. It's, it's insane. Just if I don't think any of them want to win or they think that they've decided they can't win and they're trying to just navigate the land land the plane of their failing campaign in a way that maximizes their position in a trump republican party or they believe that nothing they can do can change the fundamentals of this race so they want to be there as the first among fucking duds in case something changes in the criminal process in the in the race that's outside of their control unless he dies that's it

they're just waiting in case he dies. They want to be there. I think there's no other reason. I mean, the trial's not starting until after all the delegates are allocated. Right. At the most optimistic case. I mean, do we think a conviction at this point

would sway the Republican electorate? I think if these people knew what would sway the Republican electorate, they'd be doing it. Also, by the way, as they're all doing this, Donald Trump earlier, we're going to play a clip of his speech in a bit, but a part of his speech in Detroit, he said that none of the people running he would pick as vice president. Just said it tonight right before the debate. It's just incredible. These people are picking these little fights with each other.

Tim Scott's going after Nikki Haley. Nikki Haley's going after Vivek Vivek is going after Chris Christie. Meanwhile, Trump's in South Carolina. You hear about this? These whales are dying up by 40 fucking points. Unstoppable. Unstoppable. A Republican consultant who is supporting Ron DeSantis said to Semaphore before the debate, if he doesn't do well here, in my opinion, he's got to drop out if he doesn't want to be embarrassed. Do you think he did well enough not to drop out? I think that's a time machine question. Yeah, he was, I will say this about Ron DeSantis, he was better than last debate,

but he still sucked. He still was not, like, the best at this debate. As long as he's Ron DeSantis, he's going to suck. It's not there. He does not have it. And I think part of his problem was he, and we'll talk about nikki haley next but she's sort of

stealing the mantle of the non-trump alternative from him or at least that field has become too crowded now and ron desantis does not look like he is in second like look according to polls he's still second place nationally. And depending on which early state poll you look at in early states, but he certainly didn't act like that or seem like that on the stage tonight. Yeah. That's, that's sort of what I mean, when I say that, I feel like, you know, it's not going to do anything, but at least it's, it seems like she had some sort of goal for what she was going to do in the debate. You know, I do think she's taken that mantle. I think she was feisty in a way that

Chris Christie wasn't right. Like, I think she actually was the only one to do something with that time. Let's hear some of Nikki Haley's feistiness from tonight. So we could have. And what you've got, I honestly, every time I hear you, I feel a little bit dumber for what you say, because I can't believe Rhonda Santus is against fracking, he's against drilling, he's been against, you did it! He always talks about what happens on day one. You better watch out because what happens on day two is when you're in trouble.

I appreciate Tim, we've known each other a long time, but he's been there 12 years and he hasn't done any of that. Literally. Bring it, Tim. Put $50,000 on curtains. On the curtains? Do your homework, Tim, because Obama bought those curtains. Curtains do your homework, Tim,

because Obama bought those curtains. Did you send them back? It's in the press. Did you send them back? Did you get a gift receipt for those fucking curtains or not, Nikki? They take the credit. They'll take the credit.

The curtains exchange was one of the, the dumbest exchanges of an otherwise very dumb debate. Yeah. Two people, two people in single digits in the polls arguing each other over a curtain purchase from the State Department in 2017. Literally, that's what that was about. The beginning of that clip, when she said, I am dumber every time I hear you speak, was about Vivek Ramaswamy, which was, I wanted to cheer when she said that, I think because he is extremely annoying. But I think like, so she was feisty, sort of went after

a bunch of other candidates. But I also think that her answers were there's like solid answers she seemed like she commanded the stage more than almost anyone else again i don't know i'm not in danger of becoming the republican at all come on tell us what you liked about nikki haley yes she commanded the stage more than doug bergham you are correct what to the extent that she has a plan and i agree she has a plan it's not a plan to win but she then what is it what is it a plan well it is a plan i'm curious what she is doing it nate cone i thought right about wrote about this very smartly in the new york times this morning is she's appealing to a faction of republic. She is appealing specifically to the non-Trump vote. She's not doing it by attacking Trump, but she's trying to be the normal Bush-like Republican, traditional

Republican. DeSantis' problem is he has no constituency because he's trying to just be a worse version of Trump. And the Trump voters are very happy with Trump. So why would they do that? Nikki Haley is going. That may be why she goes after Tim Scott. Because Tim Scott is her competition for that lane. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. And I think she genuinely hates Vivek.

That was sincere. That was the only moment of sincerity on there. And I think that's one thing that brought them all together. And maybe America. Yeah, because there was a moment when she. They've all got sort of like oppo research on vivek they've got these oppo files that they've just been waiting to use there was like you know reports that some of them were going to use them in the last debate specifically around desantis because it's super packed like they're flooding their torpedo tubes right yeah and some of it has to do with business in china i don't know

they all hate china that's all they talked about all night. When one of them attacked him on China, suddenly like four different candidates on stage were just like, China this, China that, China... Like they all jumped on. I also dislike China. Yes, that was also something I was going to do. That's something that my parents were going to do. I don't. He likes China.

He has a history with China. I don't. I'd like to interrupt to say that was something that I was going to also say. That was something I planned to do about now. And I'm going to do it now. Am I doing it? I'm not doing it now. Got it. Vivek Ramaswamy, who I think in the first debate,

I was like, he's extremely annoying, but maybe there's the part of the Republican base that likes Donald Trump would like what Vivek Ramaswamy is selling tonight. I cannot imagine why any human being of any political persuasion would enjoy spending any time with Vivek Ramaswamy. He's the most annoying. Yeah, here's my takeaway. Smarmy. I missed the first debate because I was on vacation and that was my time. And you couldn't have it. But so this was my first time seeing him in this kind of a forum.

And it is a testament to the fucking charisma vacuum. Don't have it. Tomaton losers that are on that stage that anyone thinks this guy has any charisma. He is he and Ron DeSantis are from the same mold. They have the same style. They have the same appealing way of explaining things to you. And I just I don't get it. Yeah, he's he's less robotic than DeSantis, but just as annoying, maybe more so.

He's annoying in a different way. Different way. Like, just like smarmy know-it-all kind of way. Yeah, you were, I don't know if we're going to play the clip, but there was this, the moment where he was talking about how I'm here to listen.

I came to listen and learn. Right before Nikki Haley fucking destroyed him. Bodied him. And it does seem like there must be some feedback they're getting about how unappealing and kind of mansplaining this guy is. I think there was a thought, because he really did dominate the stage.

The last time, he was the only person who, like, drove a narrative, who he had most of the speaking time. People were responding to him, which felt completely out of nowhere, given the fact that most of the Americans had never seen him before that moment. And I think there was a sense that,

oh, is he going to be the breakout candidate from this debate? And he did not. He's actually, I think, lost a little bit of ground since the debate, the national polling average. And I am positive from having watched this that their focus groups say that people found him annoying and pretentious.

And he went into this debate. People, I guess those voters were correct. I mean, the voters are not always right. Sometimes the voters. And he went into this debate. People, I guess those voters were correct. I mean, the voters are not always right. Sometimes the voters. And he went in this debate with a plan to try to sand down the edges of that annoyingness, which is why he did not, when people came after him,

that's why he, instead of fighting back, as he did last time, he was just like, Ronald Reagan, 11th commandment, policy debate. And then he did that completely rehearsed routine about saying that he would listen to people and get advice from older people and all of this. Do you think that his polls might be affected by the fact that he has the hairstyle of your third pick for a DJ for a bar mitzvah?

His hair gets bigger with every debate. What the fuck is that? I didn't really land that joke. Just kind of got stuck in the middle. Leave it at it. I don't care. This is free. He talked a lot about kids in social media.

It was a big problem of his. That's his response. I'm going to book him on offline. That's his response to being on TikTok. He's the only Republican candidate on TikTok. Oh, yeah. And so he's gotten a lot of crap for that. He's also talked about getting drugs on Snapchat.

Yeah. There's a talked about getting drugs on Snapchat. Yeah. There's a fentanyl baby. One just small, somewhat serious point, which is it is really despicable that Dana Perino decided that one thing she wanted to get out of this debate was some kind of pledge from each of the candidates to pass a federal law to require, I guess, teachers and school nurses to out kids to parents if those kids come guess, teachers and school nurses to out kids to parents if those kids come to those teachers and tell them that they're gay or trans or non-binary or what have you, that that's what she viewed as a really interesting and exciting way to make the most of this debate,

to get some kind of yes or no answer on this bigoted question. She pegged the question off an answer that Christy gave to Stuart Varney, one of the co-moderators, like just last week, which is wild. And it's the only question that she followed up on like 12 times. Like she tried to pin Doug Burgum down repeatedly on it. Like that's one of her, that's what she thinks is the most important thing she can do on this forum is try to shift the Republican Party to the right on the issue of trans and gay kids. That's giving her, I think, more credit than she deserves on having any kind of strategy, because all three moderators just were bowled over by the candidates. They were interrupted all the time. They couldn't get a word. It was wild. It was wild. It's wild. Let's talk about Chris Christie, Lovett's pal. You know, I think we said in the

first debate, he didn't sort of take all the opportunities he had to really go after Donald Trump. His first question to him, here's what he said in this debate. And you're not here tonight, not because of polls and not because of your indictments. You're not here tonight because you're afraid of being on the stage and defending your record. You're ducking these things. And let me tell you what's going to happen. You keep doing that. No one up here is going to call you Donald Trump anymore. We're going to call you Donald Duck. happen you keep doing that no one up here is going to call you donald trump anymore we're gonna call you donald duck all right i want to ask the governor desantis you love it i think that was a great line that you gave him i don't know what everyone's talking about i think you did it

yeah i mean look it was sort of like we did it it was sort of like how the car sponsor you know we kind of worked on it together some of it was his i don't remember it was donald duck thing was mine or it was his we kind of went back and forth. But that's our partnership. It's sort of like just stalled. Man, no one has ever been so close to landing a plane on a beautiful and clear day and then explode it right on the runway. It was a great moment. And then it lands on Donald fucking Duck. What's going on?

Who are in these debate prep sessions with Ron DeSantis, Chris Christie, all of them. Donald Duck? And he is, oh, the Donald Duck line. They're all like, yeah, yeah, sir, that's great. Do the Donald Duck line. That's, what? It was wild.

I mean, before we came in here, I decided to do a little prep. So I clicked on a news article from NBC News that was six takeaways from the debate. And one, number three was Chris Christie got Donald Duck trending on Twitter. It was a good moment for him too. We were all like, oh, this is a good moment. This was a good hit. Yeah. And we're like, here we go.

He had some energy. How does it end? It was early in the debate. He's looking at the camera. It was like, all right. Now that's the Chris Christie that I fell in love with. That's the Chris Christie from my younger days it was just yeah then he had another like you know he hit trump for not building the wall he said trump's gonna say he's gonna build the wall and have mexico pay for it but he only built 52 miles and if mexico knew it had only been 52

miles maybe they would have paid for it which is is like... It's on its way to something. It's on its way... Is it 2017? Like, what is happening? Yeah, I know. Again, just cut to an insurrectionist being like, only 52 miles? Tim Scott, Tim Scott got his note from the last debate

was you didn't say anything, you were too quiet, so you got gotta make your case sir we've looked at some of the crosstabs after your performance in the first debate our view is just strategically we think you should speak and obviously that may not help we're probably not confident that speaking will have as much of an effect as we'd like but it's the only thing we can do on a debate stage.

He did speak. He did speak a lot more of this debate, but he, Tim Scott kind of did a, I'm going to give different parts of my stump speech, you know, and someone obviously told him, you know, you're, you're lean on your personal story. That's where you're inspiring your hope message, all that kind of stuff. So he sort of did a lot of rhetoric around there, but often it didn't make sense with the question that was asked to him. And I don't know. To no end. It's to no end. Why are you running for president? I still don't know. Well, he got the first question, which was about the economy. And I literally looked at my computer, looked up and he was talking about fentanyl on the border.

Yeah, he did that a lot. A lot of them just sort of pivoted to another question or topic that they wanted to talk about. And not to topics that might be easier or more conducive to a good moment for them. There was one moment where Dana Perino's best moment was, I think it was Pence, who went on some tangent and she's like, I believe the question was about health care. Yeah. Yeah, it was about it was about health care. And his answer was, I would pursue the federal death penalty for anyone involved in a mass shooting. Expedited death penalty.

Yeah, that'll do it. That's health care. That's his health care plan. Yep. Hey, why didn't we think of that? So Mike Pence was at the debate. He tested out some jokes again. He had one terribly lame line about, you know, biden shouldn't be on the picket line he should be on the unemployment line and no one laughs no one laughs for laughter mike pence's problem is like no one in the audience not a lot of mike pence fans out there a lot of mike a lot of mike pence we should hang them people but not a lot of mike a lot of people want to hang but not

with he's struggling with the whiff so at one one point, Chris Christie's talking about teachers unions and he's rambling against teachers unions. Speaking of rambling. Yeah, go on. And then he, a really sort of gross attack on Joe Biden. He says, oh, well, Joe Biden's sleeping with a member of the teachers union because Dr. Jill Biden, the first lady of the United States, is a teacher and a member of a teachers union. I don't think it's that gross. That man fucks his wife. What's the problem?

Well, it's just like, it's the first lady, and you're just like, he's sleeping with a member of the teacher's union. I know you're a Christie fan. Firstly, what? Listen. Listen. Whatever comes next is going to be edited out.

I think if more people thought Joe Biden was fucking was fucking jill biden maybe these age problems wouldn't be as big of a deal in the polls okay how about that okay that's a fair point that's thank you anyway well mike pence heard that and said i gotta get on on this so uh here i mean in the debate in the jesus what are you talking about crazy. Well, let's listen to what he said. Let's listen to what he said. Chris, you mentioned the president's situation. My wife isn't a member of the teachers union, but I got to admit, I've been sleeping with a teacher for 38 years. Mike, you know what? You know what? Great. Great?

This is great. Look at these people. They're being sex positive on a debate stage. That's unprecedented. Unbelievable. And then we finally come to Doug Bergen. My guy, Doug. He was wild.

I don't know what else to say about him. He like interrupted a lot. Again, someone must have told him, sir, you didn't speak much last debate. So he just like interrupted on every single question but he didn't answer the question he just like said something else at one point he like interrupted to say uh the strike is happening because joe biden's interference in capital markets and it was like he kept doing this thing of like i'm sorry but i just have to interrupt to say what nobody's willing to say a different version of what you've all been saying i I'm Doug Burgum. You got Burgum. So just to wrap this up,

one of Dana Preno's last question, I think it was her last question, was a little wild. Here's what she asked to wrap up the debate. If you all stay in the race, former President Donald Trump wins the nomination. None of you have indicated that you're dropping out. So which one of you on stage tonight should be voted off the island? I vote Donald Trump off the island right now. That was it. There was a process by which they came up with this idea. They ran it by large groups of people and it made it to the debate stage.

And you know what? Like Chris Christie, he gave it the old college try there. He had to be called out because he did not volunteer it. Stuart Varney had to come back to him later and say, I saw you writing something down. What did you write down? No, this was, so you have to understand. So what happens is Dana Perino starts this question and as Reid pointed out before we recorded,

it's on its way to actually an important point, which is if you all stay in the race, Donald Trump is the nominee. None of you can, if all of you are here, none of you can succeed. What is the process by which any one of you is going to be the one to take on Trump? Some version of that.

And she also said like, and you're all down like 40 points. Does anyone have a strategy to win? but then she turns it to this now writes someone's name down and gave ron desantis his best and most human moment of the night which is like i'm not gonna do that that's not fair everybody put on suits and when i would have simply said doug bergham but what's funny is what's funny is as that's happening chris christie writing down a name. And he's like, I agree. We shouldn't be writing down any names. And he's like, you, Governor Christie, you've written something down.

Tell us. No, I didn't. No, I didn't. I didn't write down. I wrote down terrorism. I wrote down Chinese communists. I wrote down whatever you think I needed to write down. I didn't write down one of these people's names.

Not Doug Burgum. Not this freak Doug Burgum who has no business being here. Yeah. And then he said, you know, Donald Trump shouldn't be on the island and blah blah blah and then then someone interrupted him vivek again yeah that came in it was like i think trump was great i loved from donald trump and then they're like that's it that's how we're ending up which actually was yeah that's yeah it was you guys think this uh debate moves the needle at all for anyone maybe nikki haley creeps up a little bit maybe she maybe she captures some of

that she gets to the tweens some of that some of that ron desantis some of the ron desantis voters go to nikki yeah maybe some of the tim scott voters maybe some of the mike pence the two mike pence voters let me let me uh hold on let me just let me let me let me let me get myself on a cable news panel for a second you ready for a this? Look, I think, you know who won this debate tonight? Donald Trump. That's the titles for Dan's message box tomorrow. Why don't you steal it? No, I've got to rewrite it.

Anyway, all right, let's talk about Donald Trump. Sure. Who is, you know, the likely Republican nominee at this point. Fuck, fuck. He was at a, he gave a speech in Detroit. He tried to counter-program the debate. He made a big deal about going to speak to auto workers and workers in Detroit and blah, blah, blah.

Turns out he spoke at a non-union shop, was invited by management. They make car parts. Unclear if there was, it doesn't seem like there was any UAW workers in the crowd. It certainly is unclear if there would be. And basically, he gave this speech, you know, it was this typical bullshit. But he was really, really thirsty for the endorsement of the UAW during the speech.

Let's listen. But your leadership should endorse me, and I will not say a bad thing about them again, and they will have done their job. If they endorse me, they will have the easiest labor leadership job anywhere in the country. If you could speak to Sean, he's listening right now, I'm sure. Sean, endorse Trump and you can take a nice two-month vacation, come back, you guys are going to be better than you ever were. So here's what Sean Fain, the head of the UAW, had to say. I find a pathetic irony that the former president is going to hold a rally for union members at a non-union business.

I see no point in meeting with him because I don't think the man has any bit of care about what our workers stand for, what the working class stands for. He serves a billionaire class, and that's what's wrong with this country. So there you have it. So you're saying there's a chance. Really thirsty. The Detroit News was there, and they interviewed some people in the crowd. One person in the crowd had a sign that said, union members for Trump. They interviewed her, and she said she was not a union member.

And then another person had a sign that said, auto workers for Trump, and they interviewed him, and he said she was not a union member. And then another person had a sign that said autoworkers for Trump and they interviewed him and he said he was not an autoworker. This is encouraging their fellow autoworkers to be for Trump. That's malicious as you suggest. What do you guys think of the Trump speech? There's plenty to make fun of. I think that like it's interesting watching Trump speak and then go into that debate. it's interesting watching Trump speak and then go into that debate. He is trying to make this argument to try to peel off some share of Biden voters in these states. And I think we should take it seriously. The argument that basically, you know, EVs are bad for the Midwest. EVs are bad for unions. EVs are bad for American workers. Especially when one of the arguments that UAW is making is the fact that

a lot of these battery plants aren't union, that this shift to electric vehicles could mean fewer union shops in the United States. It is a real and serious argument that could resonate with people, even if Trump is the worst messenger for it and was an incredibly anti-union, anti-worker, anti-middle class president. So I think the question is, how do Democrats and Biden make sure that he doesn't get away with that? That's a great question. Can we find another drink in for Dan? I think, Love it,

Love it's point is you have to wade through. We watched the whole speech which no one else is going to do and it was it was on newsmax only yes and by the way so you all know and by the way midway through on newsmax they did a picture and picture of a fucking fundraiser for rudy giuliani's legal defense picture of him up there looked like it looked like he was dead yeah they're just gonna when he dies they just cross it out and write memorial funds yeah they they alternated between that picture and then please buy a gold coin. Yeah.

Yeah. Just buy gold. And if you buy gold, you'll get, they said, take control of your finances. It was the slogan for the gold company. Physical gold. They make it very clear. It's physical gold. Yeah.

Bob Menendez called him up. No, that's how he's going to pay for his legal benefits. But if you watch the whole speech, there's a ton of insanity in there. But buried in there, which is what most people will see either through clips that are shared or more likely in the billions of dollars of ads that Trump's campaign and Republican super PACs air, is a very potent grievance message targeted at workers who've been left behind in this economy. Now, Trump doesn't mention that he is someone who was the most anti-worker president in American history, who passed a tax cut that most of that offense went to the rich and encouraged and led to the more offshoring of American jobs, who got rid of overtime pay for 8 million Americans, costing them more than a billion dollars in wages. So he has a record there. But what we have to take very seriously is he is speaking in a language of

populism that works in an environment where people are very unhappy. And all of the polling shows that we are in a very fertile environment for that sort of economic nationalism and populism. It doesn't match up to his record, obviously, but the only people who are going to make sure that that is known is us, right? It's Democrats and people who want to defeat Trump. The press isn't going to do it. It's not going to happen on its own. We're going to have to make that case to fight back against it and also speak to those concerns ourselves with our rhetoric. We can't just simply be, look at everything we've, not that Joe Biden is doing this, but look at everything we've done. Do you, let me just read to you some of the subsections of the Inflation Reduction Act. Yeah. Even though all that stuff is really good, there is a tremendous discontent. I think it says

something about sort of the populist moment we're in is that the Republican candidates were afraid to criticize striking union members. With the exception of Tim Scott, who was like, yeah, you're asking for too much. That's all, that's what I have to say. But even he walked away from his own. Yeah. But all of them up there, and Trump in particular, in a different environment, in a different moment,

the Republican Party would be attacking union thugs and bosses, and why are they out there? And they'll say the union members are misleading the rest of the workers, but they all looked at that with such trepidation. And that is a moment that Democrats should own, a moment of worker empowerment, a fight for higher wages. That is us. And Trump is trying to co-opt it. We're going to have to fight really hard not to let that happen.

I also think you can just tell he's just so much more comfortable in the role of challenger than he was as incumbent, right? Because his whole message, you know, people would call him like a feral genius, but it's not, it's, it's, it's pretty easy.

Who calls him that? You know, all the annoying people on this guy's stuff. His message is easy. And it always has been. It's like the establishment is awful. Everything's fucked up. I'm the guy who can fix it.

I do good deals. And aren't you annoyed with what the elites and everyone in Washington has done to this country? Aren't you pissed? And I'm the vessel for your anger, right? Like that's his whole, that was his shtick in 2016. And it was complicated in 2020 because he was fucking president for four years. And people didn't like what they saw, generally. But now he can be like, oh, well everyone has you know really short memories so forget about

those four years you're pissed now and i'm the guy that's going to go after the establishment that's what he's trying to do and so i think that you're right which is you can't fight that by being like no no everyone's wrong things are great what you have to do is just as we've said a million times like turn it into a choice if he becomes president again this is what he's going to do and hold him responsible for the problems he is claiming to be the one who can he can solve and he will get us right back into that i mean we just gotta that's why like every time and it's also why donald trump doesn't ever talk about a second term agenda all he talks about is like you're pissed about that i'm gonna fix it when i get in there it was great when i was president i'm gonna fix it

again but like he's not laying out any fucking second term agenda because he knows that his policies are unpopular. Right. And where they are signaling anything around his agenda, it is a lower corporate tax rate to just to get that out there and to just sort of shore up those interests and remind everybody that, yeah, yeah, I'm going to talk kooky on the on the stump, but you can count on me when the when the chips are down. So Joe Biden, earlier than Trump, like the day before, did go and become the first U.S. president to ever join a picket line. And he joined striking auto workers in Detroit. Here's ever join a picket line. And he joined Striking Auto Workers in Detroit. Here's a little sound from his visit. You guys, UAW, you saved the automobile industry back in 2008 and before. Made a lot of sacrifices. Gave up a lot. And the companies were in trouble.

But now they're doing incredibly well. And guess what? You should be doing incredibly well, too. You deserve what you've earned, and you've earned a hell of a lot more than you're getting paid now. Pretty big deal that he joined a picket line. Yeah, real fuck you to the writers, but they're out there for months. What, you don't like suits? You don't think the suits people should get a little bit of a taste of this Netflix action?

Joe Biden should have come to Hollywood. Yeah yeah and just hung out outside netflix yeah just like yeah i think that we these room minimums i think it's great that he went i think it's a big deal it was like like that's that's where he should be both physically but also like that's his that that's the best message, right? That he's going to be the guy who's fighting for workers. And it, again, it doesn't have to be part of the messages. Here's the things I've done over the last four years, but a big part of the messages, and this is why I'm going to keep fighting. And if you put me back in the white house and you give me a democratic majority, we're going to keep fighting

for workers. Here's the proof that we've been trying and we're going to keep going. And these Republicans are going to sell you out. And, you know, they had the Biden campaign ran an ad today, like hitting Trump for being a fake populist, which is great. And, you know, so it's a it's the right message. I think I also think just like we're watching this debate and they all just go back to like, where's Joe Biden? He's in the basement. It's like, hey, hey, man, everybody's watching the news. He just got back from a foreign trip. He's at the UAW. He's not in his basement. Yeah, doesn't work. One other thing happened, Dan, that you alluded to at the top of the show. Yesterday, a New York State Supreme Court justice ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud by exaggerating his wealth and the value of his assets on financial forms.

Basically, Trump and his companies use the false information to they got better terms on loans, insurance rates, taxes. And this happened. This was summary, a summary judgment from a judge. This is all before the fraud trial actually begins. It is slated for this fall. But now the trial basically focuses on how big of a fine Trump will pay, what the punishment will actually be. If the ruling stands, basically the attorney general's office, Letitia James, is seeking $250 million in penalties. And the judge could bar and may likely bar Donald Trump and his sons from running any business in New York. Donald Trump and his sons from running any business in New York. Should this have any, do you think this will have any effect on anyone? You think anyone wants to, uh, anyway, anyone's going to be swayed by the fact that the guy who wants to be president, uh, was just found liable for fraud. Can't, can't do business anymore.

We're just lying about his net worth. No one watching the Republican debate because no one mentioned it. The fact that the guy is running to be in charge of the federal budget and he was just accused of fraud. It seems like a relevant piece of information you could share with voters. I mean, just to just to add a little more detail here about like how big a deal this is, as we've talked about before, your Attorney General Letitia James charged Trump with these crimes that was headed to trial. She filed a motion that said the evidence of Trump's fraud is so obvious it's not even worth having the trial over. Like, just look at it. It's so clear. Like, there's not even a shadow of a doubt that he

is guilty of fraud. So let's just rule on that right now so we can get to the business of penalizing him for the fraud that is so obvious. And that is what happened. I mean, it is a huge deal. Like, David K. Johnson, who was a very well-known tax writer for The New York Times, was on Twitter. And he suggested that this could likely end with New York State repossessing Trump's properties, including his apartment in Trump Tower, which is a part he still owns, potentially parts of Mar-a-Lago. And there's, of course, like, you know, Eric Trump and Donald Trump, too, in his statement. They were like, well, the judge said that Mar-a-lago was worth this much and that couldn't be and what really happened here is like when trump wanted to lower his taxes he would claim a low valuation for a property when he wanted to get cheap loans he would inflate the valuation so basically what he was doing is he

was just changing the valuation depending on whether he wanted loans or whether he wanted to pay lower taxes and not everyone gets to do do that. And some of this wasn't just subjective. Like, how much is Mar-a-Lago? He lied about things like the square footage of various apartments. Right. These are things that these are things that don't change. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Like the do you think Biden should like does the Biden campaign do anything with that? Yeah, I think so.

I mean, they don't do it right now. But over the course of time that this it's it's a bit like I think that a core part of their message is going to be about that we don't want to return to the chaos and corruption of Trump. And you're going to have to make that case. And a judge finding him guilty of fraud for inflating his assets by $2 billion seems relevant. After a jury in New York found him liable for raping E.G. and Carol? Part of it is that Trump is not in this for you. He's in it for himself and his rich friends. And this is a piece of evidence to that.

Right. That is key because during his speech today, he was like, you know, Joe Biden, Crooked Joe is just out there enriching himself because he like makes up stories about how Biden, China money and all that kind of stuff. So he said that he's like, but I'm in it to help you. Because so he knows. He said, I'm in it to help you. So he knows. He said I'm in it to enrich you, not myself. Right, yeah. He's like, I didn't need to do this. I was having so much fun living my life

and I just did this for you and now I'm getting the shit kicked out of me, but now I'm here. I could have done something else. Meanwhile. But you're doing it to stay out of fucking jail, man. Well, now, that's the thing. I'd say, look, one thing that comes across,

I think it was true in the Meet the Press interview, it was true in the rally that we watched. He's running, the threat of prison hangs over him, sharpens the senses. Yeah, it's made him a little more disciplined in his message. It has, but I will say, yeah, there's political implications for the fact that they just found that we can go right to the damages phase for the fact that he's a fraud, sure. They're coming for his money, and he's been lying about his worth this whole time. And that has to be genuinely terrifying for him. There's a real threat that before he can ever get back to power, even if he does become president, whatever, that he doesn't have the ability to use politics to stop these people

from taking his apartment, from taking his wealth from forcing him to actually confront what his actual net worth is like that is the only way out is winning i honestly think that like if he had to choose between being rich and wearing a jumpsuit right like coming out of going to jail and coming out rich or losing all that he has i don't think that's a close call for him i don't think he wants either. Who would? In fairness. No, and look, he's a little more disciplined. He's also still talking about windmills and whales

and confusing Jeb Bush and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's also true. That's also part of it. He really... He's sort of got the 16 message, which is me against the establishment on behalf of you right that was sort of the message and it was all bullshit and stuff like that but that's what he

did in 16 and then in 20 he was sort of like in a rabbit hole of fucking you know right-wing youtube comments yeah uh and sort of specific flourishes right right this was a bit more like the speech today was a bit more sort of a clean the parts were the parts that were the message around the working class basically take that kind of broader message that he was doing for a long time. And he basically says like, I have been fighting for years

to take on the elites on behalf of the working class, which is a change. And which, you know. Yeah. I would just like to understand the environment that this is happening in. This is a much, much,

much more fertile political environment for Trump's message than it was in 2016. 2016, economy was doing fine. People weren't particularly grumpy. Trump largely won because of complacency, in a sense that things were fine after eight years of Obama. Now there's a Pew poll that came out a couple of weeks ago that it's part of the regular series that looks at the political, at how people's feelings on the political system in this country. And the percentage of people who hate both parties,

highest in history, people who are exhausted and frustrated by politics, highest in history, people who think politics are corrupt and politicians are corrupt, highest in history. Like we are, people are angry

and they think the system is not working and they're mad at both parties. And that's going to have very real consequences. This is not the 2020 environment. Right. And we shouldn't overstate like, and they don't at both parties and that's going to have very real consequences this is not the 2020 environment right and we shouldn't overstate like and they don't like donald trump most people don't they do not they don't hit more people donald for all the crap about joe biden's favorable ratings they are better than donald trump's for most working class people this isn't working like we should just get all that out there but again an election in 2020 that was decided by 40 000 votes across three states it doesn't take much it doesn't take much. It doesn't take much. So, you know, for all the silliness

and pointlessness of the Republican debate, what who seems to be the most likely nominee, Donald Trump is out there and is, you know, going to be as tough to beat as he's been in the last election. So everyone should get to work. VoteSaveAmerica.com. Okay. We were going to call Tommy, who's going to go to the debate, but Hannah wasn't feeling well and he had to stay home and take care of Lizette. So no Tommy at the debate, which honestly, good for Tommy. Yeah. Yeah. Don't go to the Reagan library unless you have to. That's an old saying in my house. Yeah, I think he won that one. We do a few housekeeping notes before we go.

Before you fill up your fall calendar with apple picking. Jesus Christ. I love it when you read the housekeeping. Oh, my God. Usually I try to read it first. That was good. You don't need that many apples. Also, Pod Save America is going on tour.

There it is. We'll be in D.C., Louisville, Cleveland, New Orleans, San Diego, and San Jose. Make sure to get those tickets before they sell out. And while you're on the events page, don't forget to check out the Love It or Leave It tour dates as well. What are what? Hey, do you not eat shit in housekeeping? Love It is heading to Atlanta, Asheville, and Chattanooga next with amazing guests like Atlanta housewife Candy Burris, comedians Ms. Pat, T.S. Madison, and many more. Remember, there are apples at the store.

This is great. Close the loop on the apple thing. Head to cricket.com slash events to get your tickets now. Also, listen up. Oh, this is for you, I guess. Listen up, cricket fans. Tomorrow, I, but not me, John Lovett, will be joining the Friends of the Pod group thread. I love this housekeeping.

We'll be joining Friends of the Pod group thread on Discord at 2 p.m. Pacific for an AMA. 2 p.m.? 4 p.m. 4 p.m. It's not 2 p.m. It's 4 p.m. Pacific. 4 p.m. AMA.

Okay, Lovett just learned of this. Lovett, you're going to have to be on the Discord You're going to answer some questions from all of our subscribers And anyone who decides to subscribe after listening to this Which you should if you want to ask Lovett some questions Head to crooked.com slash friends to sign up And you know You get to talk to Lovett And you also get to be on the Discord for nights like this

Where we all had a great time on the Discord Here's the thing It was a hate watch but we did it together yeah and that was nice yeah i love the way we just throw around discord as a as a term again it's a it's a it's a group chat for the if you're if you're old like us it's a group chat yeah that's all you need all right everyone uh we will uh i guess what we got in it we got an impeachment hearing on th Thursday and then the government may be shut down

by the next time we record it's midnight Saturday so when you hear from Lovett and Tommy and I on Tuesday we could be in a

government shutdown lot of news lot of news lot happening we'll talk to you then everyone have a good weekend bye everyone

Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production our producers are Olivia Martinez and David Toledo. Our associate producer is Farah Safari, writing support from Hallie Kiefer. Reid Cherlin is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis.

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