Pod Save America - "Trump's Pre-surrection Rally."

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

On today’s show Ron Desantis' performative cruelty wins rave reviews from the Republican base. Donald Trump goes full QAnon in Ohio. Democrat Tony Evers stops by to talk about his race to hold the governorship in Wisconsin, and then Lovett debuts a new game called Culture War. For a closed-captioned version of this episode, click here. For a transcript of this episode, please email [e-mail] and include the name of the podcast. 

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Lovett. The Polka Band. I'm Tommy Vitor. Yeah, that was an accordion version of our theme song sent in by a fan, Dan Cantrell. Thank you, Dan. Thanks. It's fun. Thanks, Dan. You lonely freak. What do we say about potting happy today? You're like 0 for 6. Get in the game. On today's show, Ron DeSantis' performative cruelty wins rave reviews from the Republican base. DeSantis's performative cruelty wins rave reviews from the Republican base.

Donald Trump goes full QAnon in Ohio. And later, Wisconsin Governor Tony Evers joins to talk about his re-election campaign, which is one of the most competitive and important in the country. Then, Lovett apparently has a little game for us, Tommy. Great. Exciting. Before we start, the first vote-by-mail ballots are hitting mailboxes, and the earliest in-person voting starts this week.

If you don't know how you're voting, this is the week to get your shit together. Visit votesaveamerica.com slash everylastvote to make your plan to vote, remind everyone you know to do the same, and donate to the Every Last Vote Fund to directly support the work of organizers and volunteers in key swing states. Also, a whole bunch of new Crooked merch just dropped,

so get excited. We got tees, hats, bumper stickers that are all about demanding reproductive justice, canceling student debt, and making our democracy work so you can show where you stand even while you sit in traffic. Oh, they got me. They got me.

I didn't read it ahead of time. You said it, not us, John. Head to the Crooked store and pick out something to wear to the voting booth or just on your morning coffee run. You guys know how T-shirts work. Check it out at crooked.com slash store. All right, let's get to the news.

So Ron DeSantis certainly got the attention he wanted for luring Venezuelan asylum seekers onto a plane bound for Martha's Vineyard. The stunt got a ton of national coverage, got a response from President Biden, who accused DeSantis of playing politics with human beings. It got the MAGA media and base all excited. DeSantis apparently got standing ovations at campaign rallies for candidates in Kansas and Wisconsin over the weekend, where he said the border is now an issue in these elections and promised to spend every penny of the $12 million that the Republican legislature in Florida gave him to transport migrants from the border, even though the law says he's supposed to only move people within his state. So Dan and I talked about this a little on Thursday's pod just as the news broke. But now that we know more, I want to get your reaction. DeSantis said in Kansas on Sunday that the 50 asylum seekers were, quote,

given basically a lottery ticket to get to the wealthiest sanctuary jurisdiction in the country. Tommy, is that what happened? Yeah. Yeah, winning Powerball. It's the same thing. I mean, what an asshole. First of all, it's not the biggest thing, but Martha's Vineyard in the winter is like a bunch of people who work there and live there. It's not some rich enclave all the time.

It's out of season. It's out of season, but whatever. who work there and live there. It's not some rich enclave all the time. It's out of season. It's out of season, but whatever. But my reaction to this, I think, was what most people's was,

was it was gross and cruel and callous. I mean, after family separation, nothing is surprising, but he's treating these families like objects and that is dehumanizing and it's too common. I think I was a little shocked at just how unsubtle of a political stunt it was. You know, I mean, DeSantis was recruiting people in Texas. These, they weren't doing any, these folks weren't causing any trouble in Florida. Uh, but he went and recruited them and then lied to manipulate,

to get them on the flight. Greg Abbott, the governor of Texas has been busting asylum seekers to places like DC, but to spend this much money on two charter planes, because you are so thirsty to get involved in the, in the border culture war. I mean, I think it shows what he thinks the political upside is, right? His politics are, he wants to be a part of this fight and note, he didn't choose Nantucket or, uh, uh, the Hamptons because I'm sure that's where all those donors live. Yeah, it's very, it was,. Yeah, it was using human beings to shitpost. Very expensive. Also then going back to, oh, they won a lottery ticket.

They were treated so well when, of course, they didn't do anything to let anybody know they were coming. It was also incompetent. It was an incompetent little ruse that he did. And then it's amazing to me also how many people on the internet are like, I think tricking vulnerable human beings uh and using them to surprise liberals like coiled snakes in a can of peanut brittle is good yeah it's savvy the um the stunt also fell apart sort of the more details emerged you know like as you mentioned to me that he he they

basically were lied to so these these families, they stepped over the border. They surrendered to immigration officials, asked for asylum, as you're supposed to do, as is your legal right. They were waiting for courts to consider their cases. Legally, while you're waiting for the court to consider your asylum case, you're allowed to travel within the U.S. So then they were lured onto this plane with the promise that there would be jobs for them in Boston and that they could expedite their work papers there so they could get work permits while they're waiting for their asylum cases.

So this is what they were told. Popular Info, a newsletter that Judd Legum writes, found a brochure. They have a copy of a brochure that they were given. The brochure says that they would be given cash assistance, food, clothing, jobs, schools for their kids, housing. None of this shit was true. Well, and also I guess Tucker Carlson

floated this idea a few months back on his show. One. Two, we know that DeSantis previewed it with his donors at the Four Seasons in Orlando before he actually did it. And then last, I just think it's worth watching. He'll probably do this again, but I doubt you will see him pack a charter flight

full of Ukrainian refugees. It will be Central and South American refugees. Yeah. And it's loading flights up in Texas, using Florida money to fill a plane up with people in Texas to fly it to Massachusetts. Yeah. And look, which is illegal. And the other consequence for these families is uh and and their lawyer was saying this on tv a lot of them are now thousands of miles away from where they're supposed to check in as you're supposed to do every so often when you're waiting for your asylum case to be heard in court and now these people are thousands of miles away and that could negatively impact whether they are granted asylum because he moved them so far away from where they're supposed to go these people were doing everything you're supposed to do right when you

come and claim asylum they're not here illegally they're did everything you're supposed to do and he has tried to make them illegal is it possible that desantis broke the law with this stunt so it's in i was looking into it and there's not a lot of experts that that want to say emphatically that he did or didn't break the law, in part because the laws weren't written thinking that a governor of a state would traffic vulnerable people for a political stunt. Right. Like some human trafficking laws, they have an implication that that he'd be doing it for his own financial benefit. Exploiting people for political benefit is not exactly a financial benefit. exploiting people for political benefit is not exactly a financial benefit. These people do seem to have been lied to, which does, you know, open you up to questions about whether this was some form of human trafficking. But it's not totally clear. But like, at the very least,

it does seem like he clearly violated the law around what this money was for, which was about moving people from within Florida. And I actually, it's not the most important part, because it's also despicable, but this whole, this whole exercise is about, it's about generating headlines about how tough he is on undocumented people on illegal immigration. There are undocumented people in Florida. Why go to all this trouble to round people up in Texas, trick them in Texas and fly them to Massachusetts. Just a a strange it's a strange aspect of this story the fact that it's incompetent and kind of a bank shop because he had to go pick up some he had to you know go to the the u.s mexico border to get this done is beside the point

because the cruelty is the thing at issue the stunt is what's at issue but the whole thing is just fucking bizarre i think it's because that's where most of the asylum seekers are coming well right of course and then and and the the influx at the border is due to more people seeking asylum than ever before which is why which goes to the point of why this is also ridiculous because he's trying to make a point about how horrible immigration and undocumented immigration is for florida he can't get this stunt together right uh on his own soil the um there's a there's a boston-based legal organization called lawyers for civil rights um who wrote to the u.s attorney rachel rollins um and massachusetts attorney general maura healy calling for a formal investigation they're they're

saying that potential laws that were violated are depriving clients of civil rights interfering with federal immigration proceedings potential violations of the massachusetts civil rights act and other applicable criminal laws so you're right they haven't gone after trafficking or kidnapping or anything like that i don't think that qualifies but people are trying to find it they're trying to find it they're trying to find it everyone's looking at this and being like there ought to be a law i mean it seems pretty fucking crazy all right so you know it's not all that surprising that the right wing media and the base loves this stunt. Tommy, what do you think the politics are beyond MAGA World? Beyond MAGA World, I think it's the immigration piece.

And it's also just the outrage from the liberals. Right. I mean, that's that's the real point. I think how you feel about the specifics of busing migrants to other parts of the country probably depends on where you live. There was a poll of Texas voters that found 51% of them supported Governor Abbott's busing program and only 35% opposed it. So unfortunately, these draconian policies are more popular in border states. That said, I was very glad to read that there has been an angry reaction to this move from Latino voters in South Florida. That's probably because a lot of them are better versed in the humanitarian situation in Venezuela, where a lot

of these people are from. Venezuelans, if you don't know, have had to live under authoritarian leaders like Hugo Chavez and now Nicolas Maduro for decades. Those guys have crushed dissent. They lock up their political opponents. They pack the courts. They strip the legislature of powers. And because of the situation there, the government dysfunction, corruption, brutal, brutal US sanctions on Venezuela, and then the pandemic on top of that, that has all created this humanitarian situation that is unbelievably dire. It's essentially a failed state. People are starving to death. Hospitals don't have like gauze saline solution, like basic supplies that lose power. And the U.S. policy towards Venezuela has been a mess.

There was this weird coup attempt during the Trump administration that included some former U.S. troops. Nobody ever got to the bottom of that. Both Trump and Biden recognize a different guy as president named Juan Guaido. Remember, he was raised in the State of the Union. Juan Guaido, remember he was raised in the State of the Union. So long story short, like the United States and our policies has helped create a situation where millions of Venezuelans had no other choice but to flee the country. Like I've seen estimates between four and a half and seven million people have fled the country. These folks went 3000 miles to get to Texas. They absolutely could qualify for political asylum. And you're supposed to have these Republicans who

demagogue in particular leftist dictators like Maduro. But in this case, Ron DeSantis is punishing the children who are clearly the victims of the leftist leaders in Venezuela that he says are the enemy, right, that he's going to defend people against. So people are seeing through his bullshit here. We'll see if it sticks, but it did make me a little more hopeful to see that there's been a backlash. And Charlie, Chris is trying to jump on that because he's running against DeSantis in his reelection. I think the it's such an interesting poll that you cited in Texas about people at the border approving of this, Because there is a real problem that Ron DeSantis is trying to exploit for his own political purposes here, which is that our immigration system is broken

and our asylum process is a big part of why we now have more than 660,000 pending asylum cases in the United States that reflect a huge increase in migration, not just from countries like Venezuela, but from other Central and South American countries where there are similar political challenges, where people are fleeing from repression and- And situations often exacerbated by US policies, by the way, right? Like take El Salvador, there's this guy Nayib Bukele, who's the president. There's a huge concern about MS-13 and other gangs there. Those gangs started in places like Los Angeles. Then we deported all those gang members, United States did under the Clinton, back to El Salvador. And lo and behold, they fired up the gangs again. And it's become

literally like it's a war zone in some cities. For sure. But in an alternate universe where U.S. policy has been perfect towards all all these countries we're going to have for decades to come now climate refugees that's gonna get worse also from all different parts of the world right so there's never going to be a shortage of migrants and asylum seekers coming to the united states and the current wait time for an asylum hearing right now is four and a half years for an asylum hearing in this country. And so we don't have enough capacity in the courts to do this. And the problem is so many people are legitimately seeking asylum.

And when you can't get to those people because there's just so many people at the border and what you do when they come over and when they step over the border and say that they're seeking asylum and then you let them into the interior of the country then they're going to end up not in a lot of these places like fucking martha's vineyard but they're going to end up in a lot of the border communities and that's a real struggle for people in those communities to have that many people there absolutely who don't have citizenship who don't you know have work permits like it's a real it-to-God challenge. Now, how do you solve that challenge? Comprehensive fucking immigration reform, which Republicans refuse to engage in because all they want to do is deport everyone.

They just want to build a wall, and that's it. So it's tough. And it's, I mean, like, you know, I do not envy the Biden administration. We have the same problem in the Obama administration, too. Like, it's just, it's a real difficult problem. Also, not a problem that disappeared during the four years of the Trump administration, it's a real difficult problem. Also not a problem that disappeared during the four years of the Trump administration either. No, not at all. That's a very good point.

Yeah. Ridiculous. So like Republican candidates are clearly trying to shift the conversation away from issues like abortion, things like Donald Trump, by playing the old hits here on immigration. How do you think Democrats should handle this? I mean, I think some version of what we, you just talked about, John, has to be the lead of the answer. Like, I think we have to take it head on and say the immigration system is broken because it is, and it has been for a long time. And the way to fix it is through some sort of bipartisan compromise in Washington. But frankly, that feels further away now than it did 10 years ago. So we're in a bad place. But where I would go to after that is to call out DeSantis for this being a political stunt. He stole the idea from Tucker Carlson. He told his donors before he did it. He recruited people from a different state,

wasted Florida money to create a political stunt. He's a typical politician and a hack. And like, that's where I would go with it. Cause I think that weakens him. I think calling him a fascist or calling him a human trafficker is not the strongest political messaging even if it's true because DeSantis's base will like those headlines it will remind them of all the things the left said about Trump I want to call him a hack politician who's so desperate to be president that he will harm children if it helps him right that's where I would go I don't have any data to back this up I would like to see some tested, but that's what I would do. I completely agree with that. I think in general, people, you look at polling on immigration and where the country

is, where the country has been for some time, people want an immigration system that works and is fair. Most people in this country are welcoming to new immigrants who want to work and make a life for themselves, but they don't want people to skip the line or abuse the system. That's like where everyone has been in this country. And so if you lead by talking about the broken immigration system and saying, look, Democrats, of course, want to work to fix the immigration system. Republicans want to deport everyone and not have anyone be able to seek asylum. That's where the Republican party is now in immigration. That's not where most people are in the country. There's also a lot of history in the U. the US and in other countries of when governments don't take systemic action to manage big immigration flows like this,

it can radicalize people and tilt them to the right. You saw this during the European migration crisis, right? Remember that it was an island in Greece that I think was awarded for the Nobel Peace Prize because all these fishermen were taking their boats, going out, rescuing people. A few years later, those people were pushing folks back into the water, right? You know what I'm, it's not like, I'm not trying to make this simplistic, but like something very different changed in the sentiment and the government needs to take a holistic approach and address it or else we're going to end up in a dark place. And unfortunately that dark place helps Republicans because all they want are these draconian policies. It is the issue that has been driving

right-wing populism all around the world, right? It is a It's a it's a and it's not going away. Speaking of Trump, there's a thinly sourced Rolling Stone story that says the former president is fuming that DeSantis allegedly stole the idea for the stunt from Trump. Whether or not this is true. Love it. What do you make of DeSantis trying to outmaga Trump here? Yeah. OK, first of all, whether or not it's true, I don't know what Rolling Stone is anymore. It's just fan fiction at this point. Yeah, look, Trump thinks every idea is his. Maybe this is true.

I don't want to denigrate the sources. I don't know. But it really can't be Trump's idea because it's not DeSantis' idea. It's not Trump's idea. The idea of rounding up people you don't like from your town and putting them on a bus to another place and saying, ha ha, I sent them there. That's not new.

People have been doing that for a long time. Mayors have been doing that a long time. All across. Mayors have. They would quietly, you know, they would give people bus tickets to get homeless people out of their towns and take shit from the next state over for shipping. I mean, people there have been. But you could see Trump thinking that this is his original idea. That's all that matters. I don't think he genuinely. Yeah, this is not a student of history we're talking about. Yes, I can absolutely believe. I believe right now Trump

believes this is idea. I believe Trump thinks most ideas are his idea if they work. He thinks he came up with Survivor. He's had a lot of good ideas over the years. The wheel. Yeah, DeSantis doing his Trump impression, kind of signaling to the Republican base and to Republican elites, like, I'm Trump, but I'm better at it. I'm smarter. I'm more sophisticated. I have more control over the levers of power. I actually think it's a fair case. I think that's what he is doing.

He is a more sophisticated version of Trump. He is better able to wield the power of the state to achieve Trumpist ends without a lot of the mess. The problem is he doesn't have the thing that both makes Trump such a menace, but also such an undisciplined kind of fool when it comes time to governing, which is the kind of careening mess charisma. Charisma. You say it. It's charisma. Trump has more charisma than DeSantis. You know, look, there's a little smile at the corner of Trump's mouth that says, I know all this is fucking bullshit. And it lessens what he does. It gives people the space to enjoy the show, which DeSantis just doesn't have.

The line readings are terrible. Well, the other thing Trump had in 2016 that Jamal Bowie points out in his New York Times piece about this is he was a huge celebrity. Of course. And the way that people came into contact with that celebrity was in places like the Celebrity Apprentice and Home Alone 2 and bullshit like that. Like Ron DeSantis doesn't have that softer edge to him. I think we do. I don't know. I watched DeSantis' Miami National Conservatism

conference speech. First of all, it was an hour long. A full hour. No Q&A. A full hour. That's very Trump-ish. What he does have, he doesn't have the name ID. He doesn't have the celebrity. He doesn't have a sense of humor. He doesn't necessarily have a sense of empathy or personality that I can tell. He does have the thing that governors all have, which is selling a record.

He's like, I'm great for business. He talks about some of that piece of it, people moving from California to Florida, but it's all a culture war. He's attacking vaccine mandates, vaccine passports, crime in Portland and California, railing against to fund the police. Then he goes to immigration. Then he talks about fighting CRT in the classroom, but also in businesses. And that's how he gets into his whole fight with Disney. Apparently Florida made November 7th a day where they teach kids about the horrors inflicted by communist regimes. So that's a thing he did.

Wow. I think it was Fauci, transistor athletes, big tech. But like the, the, if you were to summarize the message in one line, it's like, I will fight the libs for you. Right. Right. I mean, the question I have is what we were just talking about with the celebrity and the charisma that matters for sure for the general election. If DeSantis is only trying to win a Republican primary against Donald Trump, I think the question is, like, can he give the base the grievance politics that they love from Trump, but without the baggage and with maybe a little less overt narcissism so that you know

Trump with Trump everything's about Trump yeah um and can DeSantis give them that and I don't know for sure I am I have not decided on this I don't think I don't think I don't think we know I think it does a little bit depend on events like it depends on what's happening legally with Trump in the coming year it depends on just how strong Trump seems. Yeah. Yeah. I saw someone tweet like, oh, this idea of a competition between DeSantis and Trump is all well and good until they both get on a Republican primary debate stage together. And Trump calls him Miss Florida. And that's that. Completely petty bullshit. Yeah. You know, it's funny. It's like I think we just truly don't know. I think I think DeSantis, you know, DeSantis is a different breed.

I think he's a tougher, more sophisticated opponent for Trump than Rubio or certainly Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz or Scott Walker or Chris Christie or any of the others that fell by the fucking wayside. I think he's a different animal. And I think we just literally don't know. he's a different animal. Like, and we just, I think we just literally don't know. Um, but the,

the lack of, uh, the lack of a personality, man, it's tough on that stage when that's all it becomes about. Yeah. I mean, this is at least like Trump was playing on one field in 2016 and that primary and everyone

else was playing on these sort of old, the old field, the old game, the old rules. And now DeSantis is, is playing on Trump's field. But I do, you know, it was interesting. There was an NBC poll that came rules. Now DeSantis is playing on Trump's field. It was interesting. There was an NBC poll that came out over the weekend

or maybe today that had Trump's approval down to 34%. He's clinging to a really hardcore base. I think that is all he's got. That's the white craft. One more point on DeSantis, which to his credit, obviously, I think it's clear I don't like Ron DeSantis. You're a big fan.

No, I know. I've got that t-shirt. Let it be known. credit obviously uh just let me i think it's clear i don't like i don't like ron de santis you're a big fan yeah no i know uh he has he is he does have a trump a trump kind of knack for pr cycles he is very good at that oh yeah he's better at it than any other republican he really is better than abbott right abbott's been trying to get this news cycle for months he thought i sent i uh i sent these vulnerable people i don't give a shit about to kamala harris's house to get to pick the vineyard. He said Martha's Vineyard got it done. And so DeSantis has a kind of knack that's very similar to Trump that none of the other Republicans have had. Speaking of holding on to that base from Trump,

the GOP frontrunner also held a rally over the weekend that got a little weird. Here's the lead of the New York Times story about it. Former President Donald J. Trump appeared to more fully embrace QAnon on Saturday, playing a song at a political rally in Ohio that prompted attendees to respond with a salute in reference to the cult-like conspiracy's theme song. Let's take a listen to the moment in that speech. lunatics and rhinos and we will fight for America like no one has ever fought before. There is no mountain we cannot climb. There is no summit we cannot reach. We will make America strong again. We will make America proud proud again we will make america safe again and we will make america great again thank you ohio okay so what what the hell first of all yeah honestly i'm in a soundtrack's a great idea look i've i'm like very frustrated i like my friend sam if you're listening give love at a soundtrack writer you text me you text 30 Honestly, I'm in. A soundtrack's a great idea. Look, I'm very frustrated.

My friend Sam, if you're listening. Give Lovett a soundtrack right here. You text me. You text me. The next 30 seconds, we'll give Lovett a soundtrack. Text me to confirm. I'm not kidding. 20 years ago, I was like, they're going to put soundtracks during speeches live. And somebody's going to figure out a technology to have the soundtrack go along with the speech.

Make it yackety-sax. And that's going to change that. It's not going to be yackety-fucking-sax. That's the Queen's funeral music. Well, the live musicians use, yeah, they're good. You could do a really cool speech with soundtrack thing.

Yeah. Anyway, what do you think was up with that? Oh, man. The Trump team says it's a song called Mirrors, but it sounds like a QAnon anthem

called WWG1WGA which is short for Where We Go One, We Go All. Now you said it. You act like you didn't know it. I don't know why they were doing the weird Hunger Games. I think it's for one. Where We Go, Where We Go One.

Some people say it was a QAnon motto, Where We Go One, Where We Go All which is a line they stole from the movie White Squall. Remember? No, I don't remember that. They also got the thing about the adrenochrome from uh uh hundra's thompson from interesting fear and loving um some people say look this is kind of the vibe you see in a lot of conservative evangelical churches maybe it's like there's one god that was one of the theories i don't know fucking weird either way i think he's like well he's just like what weird thing can I do to keep this hardcore QAnon

bass with me and not Ron DeSantis? Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, two points. Point number one, I do think it was just a one for Q.

I think that's what it was. I think it's a little late. It's sort of like, you know, it feels a little bit like trying to get, playing the music for the band that broke up already. Like it feels like a little bit like uh trying to get playing the music for the band that broke up already like it feels like a little he's a little late on the queue front but then i was thinking like man if you're worried about needing to be broken out of a federal prison by

an angry mob a group of q supporters is not the worst people to have on your side i mean as we learned look so he's always been uh q anon curious yeah uh we we know that this isn't like the first time he's done something like this. But last week, he also truth to picture of himself wearing a Q pin on his label under the words. The storm is coming, which for those of you who aren't familiar, of course, refers to the moment that QAnon followers believe that Trump will return to power after arresting and executing his political enemies live on television. Very normal. Cool stuff. Like, is he just trying to get attention here?

Do you think he's just trying to hold on to that base? Clearly, the effect of this is excusing violence. Yeah, I mean, I do think that, like, there's no group of, I think, let's not think of them as Q supporters that are backing Trump, and let's think of them as presurrectionists. That's how I think it. They're fanatical. He wants them on his side for whatever is to come they're a good part of their their they'll show up the people that come at his rallies

they're his desantis insurance can't get that he can't he won't go here no he won't go here if you're looking for things to to retweet on truth social it's probably hard to avoid q content right i mean that's why the majority it's a safe space for q i'm sorry tommy did you say retweet it's retr's probably hard to avoid q content right i mean that's why the majority it's a safe space for q i'm sorry tommy did you say retweet it's retruth retruth i'm sorry i apologize these people like what they are what these what the q people are these white christian nationalists who have been conditioned to prepare their whole lives for this end of days apocalyptic event yeah and like that that's why i was oh how would these Christians support Trump? He's unfaithful, he's profane

he's this, he's that. Like they don't care. They view him as a vessel for their crazy political right wing evangelical agenda and the ends justify the means for them. One other point too. Look I think the embracing of Q is very strange. Everyone holding up one finger. I don't like the vibe

but you know there was a group of people holding up a finger. I don't like the vibe. But you know, there was a group of people holding up a hand almost like an evangelical prayer at a Doug Mastriano event in Pennsylvania. The people like it's a Nazi salute. And everyone said like, this is a Nazi salute. I know it's been a while, but like everything Trump does, all these guys do isn't new. Like they've been doing weird oaths, having people raise their hand, having people say things in unison. They've been doing this fascistic stuff now for five years. This isn't that much of an escalation to me.

I think the full embracing of Q is, but like getting a group of fucking wackadoos. It's all bad. It's all bad. It's all bad. Like there's a lot of people that seem to have short memories. We had a, there was an insurrection.

It was violent. Absolutely. We could get another one again. It's all bad. Of course. Every once in a while, you go to a religious event. You haven't been in a while.

Maybe it's a church. Maybe it's a christ christening and the priest asks you to raise your hand if you get it at the wrong angle people can take very bad photos of you you cannot share it i'm not sure we're not gonna share it and it doesn't i may or may not hey hey tommy it doesn't we can't share it because it doesn't exist because there is no photo of you at the christening for a baby in which you went full fucking Heil Hitler by accident. I was trying to worship in the way I was told, but I'm not Catholic. It was wild. It's wild.

It was wild. I do think Laura Ingraham did the Nazi salute, though. I believe that. I'm sorry. Yeah, you've said that before. I do. I'm sorry. I just think it was what she did.

You've had a position on this. Yeah, I think it just, I was a little too. Anyway, remember the debate last week about how Joe Biden used the word the word semi-fascism which was in in hindsight polite yeah yeah the problem with that was the semi yeah yeah that's fair anyway all right when we gave trump a semi keep that in keep that in as they say all right when we come back i talked to wisconsin governor yeah tony evers sorry. Adults listen to this. Hey, put a little space before Tony Evers. Maybe a little music.

Put a little music under this. Joining us now. John, sorry. One quick. Governor, I think you might be chewing gum. No, I'm just finishing eating. Oh, okay. I'm just finishing eating an almond.

How dare you? How dare you disrespect the show, Governor? Well, I should not have had an almond before i got on the poor guys you're campaigning all day you're governor of the state come on you can you know you gotta power up okay making sure it wasn't wasn't gum thanks now that you've made it now that you've made it through the gauntlet okay what else am i doing wrong? I'm like the principal. All right. Joining us now, the Democratic governor of Wisconsin, who's in one of the country's most competitive midterm races, Tony Evers.

Welcome to the pod. I'm glad to be on the pod. We were I'm really not supposed to be here. We were just discussing this. We don't care about the queen. Do you care about the queen? Can we Americans We don't care about the queen. Do you care about the queen? Can we, American Americans not supposed to care about the queen? Didn't we fight a war about this? Yeah, we did. But I, I do care about the queen. You know, it's, she's been there. She's been there so long. How can you not care for her or care that she's dead? I know I, I, I can honestly say I haven't seen one bit of the news on that and i probably won't but it's just like you know part of something that was always in the in the distance the far far distance for you know i've been around a long time and she's been around longer than me

and so it's just like yeah it's it's an issue. Okay. Maybe it's just my age. I don't know. No. All right, fine. I have more sympathy than you do. I don't care. Okay. Let's get some real questions. You've been governor of one of the most gerrymandered states in the country where the Republican

legislature hasn't just refused to cooperate with you on a whole bunch of legislation. They've tried to strip you of powers that other governors have had, prevent you from filling boards and commissions. Can you talk about, for people who don't know, what it's been like to do your job under those conditions? Yeah, and I'll use one example in particular. Yes, they have approved a whole bunch of my appointees. And one, I'll give you an example, is the head of the Department of Natural Resources Board. And because he is such a stalwart on being kind of anti-natural resources,

we can't get standards sent for PFAS or other pollution because he's the key vote. And if he wasn't on the board, we would have all sorts of things accomplished. And right now, it's at a stalemate. So it's an important question about policy. And it's an important question around, by doing that, have they really transitioned from the last election? And I would say for the most part, no. Yeah. And I'm, I always wonder when I read these stories about Wisconsin, like what's the way out here? Like if you win, you'll be facing a Republican legislature,

maybe even a super majority in the Senate. What do you think you can get done in the next four years and how can you change the dynamic of the last four years? Well, it'll be hard. I mean, the politics of the politics nationally, I mean, it, no one who wants to give, give anybody a win, but I will say that our first budget, we were able to get as much, you know, money for our public schools as, uh, as frankly we would have with, uh, any, any group of legislators. So you take, there are certain things that transcend politics they're not many but schools are one internet is another and infrastructure is another

and roads are another so the kind of those basic things that are basic services of a of a state we can reach agreement on that the republican Republican Party seems like they're very into out-of-state millionaires this cycle. We got New Jersey's Dr. Oz running in Pennsylvania, and you're running against a Trump-endorsed election denier named Tim Michaels, who I believe lived in a $17 million mansion in Connecticut until last year. Is that something you're reminding people of often? What else should Wisconsin voters know about your opponent? Well, that's the minimum. That is the bare minimum. Yes. And I don't, well, I can go down the road, $17 million place in Connecticut. He's also has a condo someplace in Manhattan. So I'm sure that

that costs a few bucks too. I mean, well, I mean, look, in fairness to him, $17 million just doesn't go as far in Connecticut as it would in Wisconsin. It's a little unfair on some level. Yeah, life is hell, isn't it? It's a lot for me, let me tell you. And it would be a lot for anybody in the state of Wisconsin. But seriously, he won a primary against several very conservative Republicans. They spent most of their time essentially leapfrogging over each other to see who could be the most conservative.

And it's scary stuff, but the bottom line is he can't back off from it. He said all these things. Right now, because of the Dobbs decision in D.C., we have, we're operating under an 1849 law that prohibits abortions. It puts physicians in jail and six years, one to six years felony. But then in addition, so he supports that. He said that's a mirror image of what he believes in. And then some reporters said, but that law does not have an exemption for people that were raped or incest. And he said, well you know that's that's the way it goes uh he he wouldn't want one of those exceptions so that's that's some pretty bold statements i i would say yeah so

on abortion i'll use schools as an example of public schools and that's my background i used to be a teacher and then a principal of a high school, things like that. But at the end of the day, I think schooling is a really important part of our part of the state's responsibility. And we had eight years of Scott Walker cutting schools and frankly, taking care of the unions that supported those teachers. Somebody said, so will you increase funding for public schools? And he said, that is the definition of insanity. So I'm guessing public schools are going to be in a very difficult position also. And additionally, he has said that he's a little, frankly, concerned about same-sex marriage, even though that seems to be a thing that I thought that we crossed that bridge several decades ago. But he still has concerns about that.

He's okay with 18-year-olds getting AR-15 without any waiting period. And he's very specific about what he's going to do with the elections in Wisconsin. And he's going to get rid of what we have without telling us what he's going to do to replace it. And he's also a believer in the big lie. He has not come to terms with the fact that Joe Biden won the election here in Wisconsin. So other than that, he took no real horrible positions. Other than that, he seems like a great guy. The only person I want to be against gay marriage is my mother. of feel real warm and fuzzy about it. The only person I want to be against gay marriage is my mother. So today, today, today he called on you to stop all paroles, even though you don't have that power and it would be illegal. What's your reaction to that stunt? And what do you think in

general of the attempt by Republican candidates to make this election about crime? This is something that your opponent has been doing quite a bit recently. Certainly. But this goes back a long time. That's a Nixonian, Richard Nixon deal. That's exactly what he did during his run for office the second time around. So, yes, I'm not surprised by it. But it is, you know, it's a lie. I mean, I cannot, I cannot stop people from being paroled in the state of Wisconsin. That's the way it's set up that there's a special board that does it. I have no influence

about those decisions, but it takes someone that has some sort of a godlike persona to say something like that. He has to know it's not possible to have that happen. And only someone that has a real inflated idea of what he is would say something stupid like that. And so you rebut it, but you need to go on. You just, and there's, that's the way the rest of the campaign is going to be like.

It's going to be negative. I mean, we've got a lot of positive things going on in the state that we're going to continue to do the work around that. But at the end of the day, we will fight this stupidity every way we can speaking of stupidity uh you got a visit from ron desantis last weekend uh who planned with your opponent an exquisitely timed rally just a few hours before the first packers home game of the season yeah that is that that that took the cake and then then he had the audacity to say something like, well, if Michaels wins, my opponent wins, then we can be just like Florida.

That would be really special. That would be really special. Everybody in Wisconsin has been lusting after that for decades. Let's be like the people in Tallahassee. Right. You can't be against gay marriage and counter-programmed football. It's one or the other. You know what I mean?

That's true. Absolutely. I know what you mean. The only people you're getting, you see what I'm saying. I see what you're saying. I love it. I see what you're saying. And, you know, the timing on that, too, was not good right before the Packer game.

And, you know, people get fired up about Packer games. And, well, they should. They're a great team. But to throw a bash right across from the airport, as I recall, and think that people are going to be excited about that, that's a stretch. But that's Ron DeSantis and that's Tim Michaels. What did you make of DeSantis' immigration stunt where he flew asylum seekers to Martha's Vineyard? It seems to be the latest in DeSantis and your opponent and Trump and all these other Republicans trying to out MAGA each other, out extreme each other.

Yeah, it's just ridiculous. I mean mean i don't know how else to put it first of all you're you're taking a group of people that their their lives are kind of on the line here they they they they took the chance to get to america and all the things that they went through and then as somebody in authority come by and say, hey, get on this plane. We're going to give you freedom or whatever. I mean, that's just that's just bullshit. Frankly, I just it makes me angry, but it doesn't surprise me. Last question. You've been talking to talking to voters for quite a while now in the campaign trail.

Like, what do you think this election comes down to from from what you're hearing from people? Well, I hope it, you know, in all honesty, I hope it's not going to be all but all the negative stuff that that just that that isn't what Wisconsin's about or for the nation's about. But I understand I've I've been around for a while that it could be. I've been around for a while, that it could be. But that said, I do believe at the end of the day, I'll win. And it'll be a small amount. I won by 1.1% against Scott Walker. The standing joke in my world is we're going to double that and go to 2.2, and that'll be a landslide.

That said, I also believe that we're on the right side of the issues, whether it's around schools, whether it's, you know, our economy here in Wisconsin is as good as it's ever been. 2.8% unemployment rate, the highest number of people working ever in the state of Wisconsin. And we've been able to really do a good job around getting through this pandemic and helping small businesses across the state of Wisconsin. So we've done the right things, and I'll continue talking about that, but we will, you know, if we have to engage in negative politicians, politics will do that too. It's important to win. The difference is having a good state that has some basic values or a state that is going to make it more difficult for people to vote and will punish women and their doctors if they choose to have abortions. And we want it. And they want to have reproductive health

decisions made by them governor avers thank you so much for for joining the pot thanks for giving us your thoughts on the queen and just and look look i'm not saying you don't have to weigh in on this but i'm just saying my position if i were running for elected office in the united kingdom would be to seize the castles uh kick them out of it, and then sell them and then use the money to help people. That's my position. It's not yours. That's my position for these rich freaks. Yeah, I'm not talking about their wealth or their castles or anything. No, you're not. Famously.

I'm just talking about Elizabeth, period. Don't take the bait, Governor. Don't take the bait. She could live on a second-floor walk-up. It doesn't make any difference to me. Well, she's dead now. All that other stuff, I can agree with you. They're driving her coffin around the whole town. Okay. All right. Thank you,

Governor. Good luck on the campaign trail. So sorry. Thank you. Bye-bye. And you know what, Andy? I didn't prepare at all for this interview. I made a bunch of dumb jokes. You said the weirdest thing. I did. I did. You weirded the whole thing up hi uh hey uh sorry i i don't know if you're the governor or a fucking third grader i don't like do you have any gum in your mouth what the fuck it just sounds so bad and in audio when someone's smacking their gum honestly i would not have said almond i I would have said gum, too.

It did seem like it was gum. It was so funny. It did seem like it was gum. He's just trying to get a snack in between hits. Join Josie Tota, Alicia Pasquale-Pena, and Yasmeen Hamidi, three young actresses, disruptors, and best friends, as they navigate the issues that affect their lives from hookup culture and social media to structural racism and LGBTQ plus rights. They won't shy away from diving deep into controversial topics, even turning to their elders.

Actors, activists, comedians, experts, politicians, 26-year-olds. Oof, that was rough. That's tough. It's a rough one to read. That's hard to hear. To try to understand the world, their generation was handed. Catch a new episode of Dare We Say

every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. Look, we can tell them about Y2K. Okay, before we go, Love It, you have a game? All right, now it's time for Tommy and John to face off in a game we're calling Culture War. You will face a pop culture gauntlet predicated on the assumption that when it comes to most pop culture news outside of shows with dragons and sports with CTE, you don't know fuck all.

True. All right. Question number one. Either one of you say the answer. Which dignitary did Australian news presenters fail to recognize upon his or her arrival at the Queen's funeral? What? Yeah, that's right.

I need an answer which dignitary which dignitary was failed to be recognized by the australian australians they didn't know who was uh no hints no multiple british british harry potter they're british and they're newly on the scene Oh Uh People are going to be screaming at us Roll the clip Who's this? Hard to identify, maybe

Minor royals, members of the I can't identify them at this point We can't spot everyone unfortunately They look like they could well be local dignitaries. It's hard to see. We're looking at the backs of their heads mostly. But I think we are now getting to the pointy end, as they say, of the... I'm just told that was Liz Truss, the new prime minister,

in the distance that we could see hopping out of that car. Going through the doors. Well, thank you very much. That's really good. That is funny. That's really good. I know that that's not pop culture news but i'm including it because the queen is mostly just a celebrity all right next which emmy nominated actress

from gray's anatomy and killing eve attended the queen's funeral as part of the canadian delegation oh i know what he said boom that's one point for john what rumor did leah michelle mock on tiktok over the weekend but she's a little read yeah okay both of you who did she call pretending to need help reading TikTok comments? Her agent? No. Chrissy Teigen? No.

He was in Hamilton. Lin-Manuel Miranda. He was also in Hamilton. He was in Glee, this person. Josh Kidd. Oh, Jonathan Groff. Got it. What did Jennifer Coolidge have an allergic reaction to that sent her to the hospital while filming The White Lotus?

Oh, that's so specific. What did Jennifer Coolidge have an allergic reaction to that sent her to the hospital while filming The White Lotus? Shrimp. Not shrimp. I don't know. It was a spray tan. Oh. It was a spray tan. I feel like knowing that she won the Emmy would have been good enough for me.

Jonathan, great. You ever had a spray tan? You think so? I had a spray tan. Oh, you bet I have. Has it ever darkened throughout a party? You bet I have. Sometimes you get a spray tan and then all of have it oh you bet i have has it ever uh darkened throughout a party you bet i have sometimes you get a spray tan and then all of a sudden you're like i washed it off too late i'm getting tanner over the i was emily told you to do it earlier she did i was um you got warned uh uh uh you look incredible by midnight

i know there was a moment there was a moment where... Oh, that's... Yeah. A friend of the show, Naomi Perrigan, was like, you get any tanner, you're going to be canceled. Get out of here. Get out of this party. We're telling a lot of truths. Oh, my goodness.

We're retruthing. Anything else? Is that it? Jonathan Van Ness clapped back. Ugh. I'm sorry. I said clap back. Jonathan Van Ness...

Yeah. Well, it really was. He clapped back at Twitter critics who hated his recent post, queerbaiting a fake relationship with his queer-eyed colleague, Antony, accusing them of not caring about anti-trans bills or the Dobbs ruling. What product were JVN and Antony shilling in their posts? They posted that they were in a fake relationship in order to sell what? I don't know.

Some sort of food item? Yes. Oh. It was Yummers, their new brand of meal mix-ins. That's not a real thing. Yummers? You made that up.

They faked being boyfriends or they faked being in a relationship to sell Yummers. Okay. And I want to just say something about this, which is I actually was very specifically this post of them pretending to be dating to sell food which I don't really care about it's not a big deal

both the people that hated it and then JVN kind of saying you criticize this but not that sometimes things you don't like are harmless you just don't like them and sometimes things you like they can be harmful you know what I mean

get together with your enemies and have a cup of crooked coffee and you know yeah yeah work it out it's have your simply safe setup louder for the people in the back instagram users were hyping cardi b's courtroom look after she posted a couple glam trial photos in the caption every day the sun won't shine but that's why i love tomorrow what was cardi b in court for? It involves... Music rights? Nope. Nope. Not music rights.

Any sense? Traffic? No. It was an altercation. Oh, she beat somebody up? It was a 2018 strip club fight. Oh, I knew about that. That's a long time to get to trial.

Yeah. Final question. Wheels of Justice, man. Yeah, slow. They just got the serial guy out. Yeah, after 22 years yeah but did he do it

Britain's Channel 5 received flag today for airing what instead of the Queen's Funeral they aired something instead of the Queen's Funeral

it is a film the Queen's Speech it is not the Queen's Speech it is not the King's Speech an inexplicable best picture winner. Crash?

It was not crash. Sometimes so lonely in this town, just crash into each other to feel something. No, it was the emoji movie. It was the emoji movie. That's a bad one. Which is really funny. That's a bad choice. Really funny thing to air.

Never saw the emoji movie. Never knew what happened. I imagine maybe the sad face learned to be happy. Happy face learned that things aren't always good. I don't know. So who won? It's five minutes on Tony Evers. I won, right?

John did win. John got more of them right in the end. Love it. I think we have questions for you now. Oh, yeah. So now that you're going to turn the tables, because you're going to have some questions on topics I don't know anything about. That's right.

In this segment, we're calling War. Alright, love it. Some clips of Tom Brady doing what during the Bucs-Saints game yesterday circulated around Twitter. Did he throw his iPad on the ground? Through a tablet. Yeah, no, they use a Surface Pro, I believe. I think they have a Microsoft deal. We'll give it to him.

I don't think I deserve it. He also started a fight between some of the Saints players and the Bucs he kind of walked away so he started a fight didn't finish it right so he took the air out of it a little bit tough that's tough one uh how many super bowl rings does tom brady have a little bit uh five close up seven nailed it wow he won seven times he's really good all right i have some questions about children's programming um disney jr is reviewing a banned episode of the show bluey in which bluey's dad is put on mock trial for what this is very specific i didn't know this and i've watched almost every episode now uh a physical altercation um

a 2018 strip club fight the Cowboy at all in 2018. A 2018 strip club fight. The answer is accidentally farting in Bluey's face. John, question. Is it true that Bluey's like the best

kids show? I've heard that Bluey kind of rules. It's at the top. It's one where I'm actually like I want to know what happens at the end of it. Yeah, and they're like

20 minute episodes. No, they're like 10 minute episodes. He's an Australian dog. Yeah, it's an Australian cartoon. They're all dogs. It's a Australian dog, right? Yeah, it's an Australian cartoon. They're all dogs. It's a family of dogs.

In fact, love it. While we're at it, can you name any of the other characters besides Bluey in their familiar role? It's an Australian show? Charlie can name all four. Kid's got a memory. It's an Australian show? It is, yeah. I'm going to...

Roo? Close. Blanche. A koala named... They're all dogs. They're all dogs. Bandit the dad, Chili the mom,

and the younger sister is... Bingo. Joey Monica. Bingo. Bingo would have been a good guess. David Schwimmer. That's all the time we have. Was I talking about the queen?

I think we all won. Oh, yeah. This was the... Everyone else paid attention about the queen? I think we all won. Oh, yeah. This was the... Turns out she was... Everyone else paid attention to the funeral today, right? Still dead. Is everyone paying attention

to the funeral? It's like the biggest story in the world. We did the rare thing of turning on the TV in our office and it's all over the TV. I don't understand it.

I don't understand it. I get British people caring. I get British people caring. They can care for it. They can care about it. But come on, America. Come on. Have some respect for yourself. What else care about it. But come on, America. Come on. Have some respect for yourself.

What else are people doing? People are pretty bored, you know. She didn't. What are we doing here? People are pretty bored. We fought a war about this because this is not a good system. The whole monarchy thing? No elected leader should have to go up to a big castle and ask permission to do anything from some rich woman.

Tommy, you've been on both sides of this. We should have Rhodes and Lovett debate over the queen and the monarchy since Rhodes is such a queen lover. Yeah, you know, look, he loves the queen. I know he doesn't love the monarchy. I think she's an interesting individual who persevered through a lot. What does that even mean?

This is why I want a debate. Let's get a debate. She was one of the richest human beings on planet Earth the day she was fucking born what did she persevere through so for example during world war 2 she didn't leave the country she stuck around

she gave a pretty famous radio address when she was 14 that sort of bucked up the nation I heard that I heard that she read

she read an ambulance drove an ambulance or something like that I forget exactly Ben said a lot of stuff that I forget I think look I've never been a huge fan of her or any royals look She drove an ambulance or something like that. I forget exactly. Ben said a lot of stuff that I forget. I think, look, I've never been a huge fan of her or any royals. Look, the only historical document I recognize is the Netflix series The Crown.

And the story of The Crown is about a group of people being frustrated by how little they're supposed to do between bouts of hunting. With Matt Smith. Thank you. Yes, with Matt Smith. Thanks, everyone, for letting me know about Matt Smith. There's this very moving... What's the really good royal show on Hulu? The Russian guy?

Oh, The Great. The Great. Oh, The Great is great. I love The Great. The Great is great. The Great's cool. I got the governor of Wisconsin to talk to in a minute. He can wait a minute.

What's he going to do? We're doing TV wrecks. They made him less powerful. He can't be that busy. The state stripped him of all kinds of power. He's trying to hang on. We're doing TV wrecks. They made him less powerful. He can't be that busy. The state stripped him of all kinds of power. He's trying to hang on. He's trying to hang on. So he can hang on a couple more minutes.

Let's ask him. Let's have us here when he gets here. We can just ask him what he thinks of Queen Elizabeth. Let's put him on the spot. Sure. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.

Our producers are Olivia Martinez and Hayley Muse. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft, and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montooth. Our episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crooked media.