Pod Save America - “We’re saying Pod Save America again.”

Episode Date: December 26, 2017

A very special Christmas mailbag with Jon, Jon, and Tommy to wrap up 2017 and look ahead to 2018.

Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm Jon Favreau. I'm Jon Leavitt. I'm Tommy Vitor. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Well, it's the 26th. When did Hanukkah end?

Days ago. Days ago. I just knew that one of the nights is Hanukkah, we went to Tommy and Han's for a wonderful Hanukkah party a couple weeks ago. That had to have been right in the middle. That was three. Day three. That was three.

Hanukkah's in the past. Okay. But anyway. Love it, RSVP'd yes, but his body said no. We're recording this early, but you're hearing it on December 26th. No, we're not. I just unwrapped my gifts. And I got some wonderful things.

Mom, thank you. I love you. Hannah, that was so mom thank you i love you hannah that was so thoughtful of you that what you did thanks leo happy honeymoon anyway all right what we're gonna do is take some of your questions just like dan and i did for our thanksgiving episode we have a christmas mailbag to sort of end the year yeah thank you guys for sending in all these questions from facebook and twitter and now let And now let's answer some questions. First question is from EJ. After Watergate, Congress passed a series of reforms, legal, campaign finance, etc., to prevent the next Watergate.

After Trump, what laws should we try and pass to prevent the next Trump? That's a tough one. IQ tests for candidates. I think two things. One, let's not get ahead of ourselves. You seem to have a lot of excess bandwidth. I do not. I'm focusing on, let's focus on getting rid of Trump and then we can figure out what to do with the hole he left behind. But I will say, I think one of the lessons of Trump is a lot of the rules that presidents held themselves to were not legal.

They were rooted in fear of political ramifications and fear of being shamed. And we have seen the cost of having someone who is shameless because once shameless, he discovered and the Republicans discovered and all of us have discovered that there weren't enough political consequences to lying, to hypocrisy, to totally reversing yourself and pretending your previous statements never happened. Now, there's not much we can do about that, but there are things we can do about the norms Trump has broken in terms of how he's dealt with the Justice Department, how he's dealt with the press, how he's conducted himself as president, how he's corrupted the office and what he's done to make money. And so I think there'll be time to look at those things after he's gone

for how we can shore up the legal strictures on the president. Yeah. Like I think if Trump, with Trump's personality, if Trump was leader in another country that didn't have institutions as strong as we do, I actually think, you know, we might be looking at a dictatorship or a totalitarian regime by now. I actually think, I'm actually pretty, you know, proud of our institutions for holding up and sort of constraining him as much as they have right now. In terms of like laws to prevent the next Trump, it's a tough one.

He was, you know, he was voted into office. I mean, I think a second Voting Rights Act is probably what we need and to make sure that there's not voter suppression laws, to make sure we have automatic registration. You know, the more people we have voting, the less likely what happened in 2016 is to happen again and paper ballots you took the words right out of my mouth there you go tom well one thing i mean ej mentioned watergate right and so the sort of analogous scandal this time around is whatever happened with Russia. And we still don't know because Mueller's investigation isn't done. But one difficult thing is because Trump

has been trying to stop this investigation because he thinks it may implicate him, or at the very least, he doesn't like the press that it's bringing him. We're not prepared for future interference by a foreign adversary in our election. Right, Tommy? Like, I don't know. Not at all. I mean, we've done nothing. According to the Washington Post, we barely even have high level conversations about it. I mean, I actually wasn't kidding when I said I was thinking voter protection laws, we should solve gerrymandering. There's so many things that we can do to restore some balance to our electoral process that I think would provide some of the checks and balances we need that are just barely hanging on right now. And laws to really force the president to treat the Justice Department and the FBI with

independence. That's a good one. I think that's something that we're going to have to look at. Because those are all norms right now. And there were norms in the past. And we saw that Trump trampled those norms in terms of DOJ independence. And maybe it's good to have some laws in place there. And he's not acting because he cares about it.

He's not acting because he fears the political ramifications, so there's still some institutional protection, but it's not enough. But it's a revitalized democracy is the best thing we can do. As our old boss used to say, when people are paying attention, good stuff happens. So I think people, not enough people were paying attention

in 2016. Rachel asks, do you think that Beto O'Rourke has a chance of flipping Texas? Yeah, absolutely. I do too. I do too. Ted Cruz has worse approval ratings than Donald Trump. He is a reviled figure

in the Republican Party, in the Democratic Party, among the dependents. He is someone who has, you know, just shown that he's willing to hand over his vote, his endorsement, willy nilly at all times. Doesn't matter if his family's attacked. Doesn't matter if people are voting against the way he votes. Doesn't matter what his commitments he's made. He is one of the most shameless, despicable politicians, the most dishonest, smarmy people in public life.

And Beto O'Rourke is this exciting young candidate. He's running a different kind of campaign. He's not taking creepy money from PACs and lobbyists. And I think he's got a chance to sort of ride the same tide of like anti-Trump sentiment that has lifted a lot of races this year. That's absolutely we have shot. If Beto was running against Ted cruz in iowa we'd say of course we've got a shot and guess what texas was closer wasn't texas closer than iowa it was in 2016 texas is changing i know it feels like lucy with the football but maybe this time charlie will finally kick it and ted cruz will bounce off a field goal take one in the i think

you got it i think you got like that I think you got it. I like that. I think you got it. Seth asks, is there any way we can get people who disagree with us to agree on what the facts are? How do we change

the lie-based operation coming out of the Republican Party and Trump apologists? John, why don't you take this one? Take a swing. I don't think we can change the lie-based operation coming out of the Republican Party

and Trump apologists, but I don't necessarily we can change the lie-based operation coming out of the Republican Party and Trump apologists, but I don't necessarily think we have to. Because one thing we learned this year is you have about 30% to 40% of the public that supports Donald Trump. They support, you know, they believe everything they hear on Fox News and Breitbart and all that kind of stuff. Maybe that's closer to 30, hopefully. And there may be nothing we can do to reach those Americans to change their minds. But we don't necessarily need to do that in order to assemble a winning electoral strategy and a governing majority. There are people, you know, from the, there's a whole bunch of Democrats, there's a small Trump base,

and then there's a bunch of independent voters and weak republicans and democrats who didn't vote in 2016 and people like that who those are the people that we can reach and those are the people that we can persuade and those are the people that we can inspire to turn out and so i think when we when we look at this situation it's always like oh well how do we how do we get these like sean hannity viewers to agree with us i don't think that's the right question i think because this is what happened i mean trump has his approval rating has dropped over time i mean he didn't start very high but he started around mid 40s and now he's sitting here in the high 30s that means a huge chunk of people who

approved of trump who supported trump no longer approve of him anymore and we're seeing that bear out not just in polls if you don't want to believe polls we're seeing it in election results in virginia we saw it in alabama so this whole idea that like oh these people who voted for trump they'll never change their minds it's just not true as i've said this before there's trump fans and there's trump voters and they're not the same thing the trump fans are probably we may not ever reach them. Time will defeat them. But the Trump voters or the non-voters, the people who didn't vote at all,

I think we can reach those people. We're not going to convince them to be better or do better or stop lying. We have to beat them. If you don't like Steve Bannon and Breitbart and that brand of politics, we've got to kick his ass at every single opportunity in 2018. And so far, so good, Steve. Keep endorsing, buddy. Yeah.

I mean, the only thing I would just add is, like, there's a difference between facts and truths. And I think sometimes liberals get themselves turned around the axle worrying about facts. And Republicans spend a lot, too little time worrying about facts. But they're better at truths. Like, we can spend all day driving ourselves crazy, trying to rebut misinformation coming from the right, but we'll always be at our strongest, not when we're arguing with them over details and statistics, but when we're coming at these arguments with values, like, we believe everyone should have healthcare, we believe in an economy that works for everybody, we believe, you know, America belongs to every race and every creed,

and what have you. So don't get tied up trying to win an argument based on facts. Like the better fight is to win an argument based on truths and values. Yeah. I, although I will say, and this is something that I want to be even better about in 2018. A lot of people, when they ask us questions, when they ask for stuff, they ask us for facts, they ask us to arm them with facts. And I think that we do that pretty well, but I think we have to remember that, you know, it's not enough to just be right and to know that you're right. I think in order to persuade people, in order to bring people along,

you do have to have a set of facts, you know. And I think it doesn't always work on everyone. And I'm, look, I'm a speech writer. I hate getting bogged down in like 45 statistics and some economic speech i always had that fight in the white house all the time but i do think arming people with the facts they need to go out and then persuade other people that you know what they yeah you lead with the value statement like you said love it you lead with the truth you leave with the value statement but i think you need some i think you need some

facts backing that up. No, I think that's true. I'm not disagreeing with you. I just, yeah, I think it's, I think it's about a balance. It's about the relationship between facts and what makes people feel things, what makes people believe things. Yeah. And you don't actually, facts can help you make your case.

They can undergird the values you're putting forward, but understand that, that, that nobody is one fact away from changing their mind. That's right. You don't think we should set up some North Korea-style megaphones and play the Weeds podcast across the United States? I want to do a flyer drop of just Vox articles across the American heartland.

We love our friends at Vox. We do. We love Vox. Because we love. But it is. I think it's a balance i think it is a balance okay at seven minutes of justice asks what i just i don't make this stuff up guys i really want to know how we can support and push the media how can we best affect change

in the media how can we let them know that we don't want to see any more reality tv news we want substance we expect mindful journalism how can we have impact on the media? This is very easy. Don't watch the bad shit. Pay for the good stuff. Don't watch the bad stuff. Don't leave some crappy 24-hour whatever on in your house. Give them readings if it drives you insane.

Yeah, I guess, yeah. Like, this actually is similar to the previous. Like, you can spend all day driving yourself crazy, trying to kind of fix the things that bother you. But that's not in your power. You can choose what you can consume and you can choose what you care about. The other thing, too, is blaming the media. I think lets people off the off the hook. I think the better question to ask is what are the incentives that are in place that create the kind of media that pisses you off this way? And I think that's an important question to ask, not just about the Fox News apparatus, what's driving it, the money behind it, the interest behind it, but also the consumer decisions that are driving what ends up on cable news, what pisses us off along the way. But like, it's not, you can't just blame the person you see on the screen because a lot went into the system. It's a system. But one thing, by the way, is to went into the system it's a system but one thing by the way is to lift up the people in the places that you think are the worst they're doing great

job because i think to paint too broad a brush like we we make fun of cable news all the time but cable news also does extraordinary jobs in interviews with with anchors pushing really hard they've done cool policy events like support the parts of what they're doing that you think are great yeah i agree with that Anything else on the media? No? More podcasts. More podcasts. Well, no, no, no.

I do think, by the way, one thing we've learned from the right, working the refs works. Absolutely. Journalists are people. They're human beings with the same emotions that all of us have. And when they make a mistake and you criticize them, sometimes they may be thin-skinned about it. Sometimes they might be a little defensive.

We get like that too. But you know what? When people criticize us, it works. It does work. It makes you think. And I think when you speak out, if you're respectful, which I know people aren't always respectful, but I've tried to do that more.

I haven't always succeeded. But when – not Fox people. Fox people are fucking awful. But when journalists that I respect make a mistake, try to make an argument about why they're wrong, try to be respectful in the way you make that argument. But keep making it and keep pushing them because, you know, they think about this kind of stuff. Do what our president does. Tweet about them. Try to get them fired over little basic errors that they apologized for immediately and corrected that you yourself have made repeatedly.

And by the way, you can still sign my change.org petition to get Dave Weigel fired. Yeah, the other thing, too, is, by the way, again, you can spend all day driving yourself crazy. I agree that we need to, you know, I think the kind of pressure that John and Tommy about on the media is exactly right. But if you think that the way we're going to have to win in politics is to change the media, we're not going to win. Understand that a lot of the structures and incentives and shit that pisses you off is going to be there in 2018. It's going to be there in 2020. It's a reality that we're going to have to deal with that you're not going to defeat. We have to win in a context in which you can't fix the media from your computer at home. We have to win in a context in which you can't fix the media from your computer at home.

Learn to play the game. Yeah. Brent asked, what's the best way to reach out to people who feel like their vote doesn't matter? Show them the results of every election for the past decade or so. You know, I get that this is still a major problem, but it baffles me. I thought like Bush v. Gore might have solved this one for us. Maybe the fact that Donald Trump won by 70 some odd thousand votes in the places that mattered.

Yeah, maybe Hillary Clinton did not excite you. Maybe you did not think she would be the best president. Maybe you thought that she was too much like Trump and that it didn't matter. Hillary Clinton was president right now. We would not be witnessing a $1.5 trillion tax cut that goes mostly to wealthy people be signed into law. We will not be witnessing a $1.5 trillion tax cut that goes mostly to wealthy people be signed into law. We will not be witnessing a partial repeal of Obamacare that's going to leave 13 million people uninsured.

We will not be witnessing Neil Gorsuch on the Supreme Court. John, will we be shit-talking the North Koreans on Twitter? We will not be shit-talking the North Koreans on Twitter. There will not be 800,000 young Americans who are worried that they're about to be deported. None of this would have happened if people came out who didn't vote for either candidate and decided to vote for Hillary Clinton. And not many either. Like, you know, a couple, like 10,000, 20,000 in a couple states.

That's all it would have taken. I'd be sitting in my house writing a comedy pilot about a couple of nerds who work together at a box factory. That would have been a show. It would have been a show called Box Factory. Box Factory? Why not? That's what it could have been.

This fall on ABC. Box Factory. Yeah, no, I think that's all right. Jonathan asks, What's the best way to build ground game in red states where infrastructure isn't already well established, like Texas, Tennessee, Georgia, etc.? I would say one thing you could do is,

if there's no Indivisible chapter in your community, start one. Indivisible is a great new group that is born of the energy and excitement that we're seeing. And it's not about, it's going to ultimately be about helping us win the House and win the Senate, but it's about legislative fights and issues.

And I think you can get a group of people to get in the habit of doing something, even if it's coming to somebody's house for one meeting and saying, let's talk about what we care about and just get the ball rolling on Facebook in your community. I think that's like an incredibly valuable thing. I think one lesson of Doug Jones winning is we need to compete everywhere. We need to start building the apparatus everywhere. Like this election, the election is coming up. apparatus everywhere. Like this election, the election's coming up. We're going to win in some surprising places and we need people on the ground starting to do the work now, not just for 2018,

but for 2019, 2020 and so on. Yeah. Don't worry about the DNC or the DCCC or the state party. I think there's this, you know, idea that these are all like magical forces that can come in and fix everything. They're just people that are getting hired they're just like it's just like starting your own indivisible group you need money swing left's raising money for candidates all across the country you need technology expertise there's all kinds of startups all around the country right now that are trying to figure out you know better technology for campaigns and stuff like that we are in a new era where you don't necessarily need to rely on the infrastructure or the power or the resources of state parties and national parties. You can do it on your own. I think that's something

important for people to keep in mind as we debate for the millionth time the efficacy of the DNC. Yeah. Corey asks, Please speak on your experiences in D.C. Is it as bad as it seems? Please give us an insider's view of the inner workings of legislation and other political circumstances. Can't wait. Corey.

Such a dark spin on it. You know, I don't think it's as bad as people suspect. It's worse. spin on it you know i don't think it's as bad as people suspect there's no worse well the the the misnomer is that like there's some machiavellian you know sort of svengali pulling the strings on everything um and making people act in bad faith certainly there have been very cynical bad actors like the jack abramoff scandal which some of you listening may or may not remember, where these lobbyists were like... Tell us about it, Grandpa.

We're buying... We're, you know, working with members of Congress to distort legislation in very disgusting ways in return for huge campaign contributions and tickets, like all that stuff was gross and shitty. But I was ultimately, I think, rooted out in a pretty significant way. I mean, I think my experience in D. in DC while I didn't necessarily love the city was working with Barack

Obama and seeing someone be able to completely change the political landscape in a couple years at a time when no one thought it was possible so I think ultimately that's a pretty hopeful lesson even if the process and seeing the sausage get made up close isn't always pretty. Yeah. I mean, I don't think this is such an overused analogy. It's not fucking House of Cards. It's not a bunch of people who are trying. It's not like this ruthless ambition for power and money and all that other kind of stuff.

It's a lot of people who are trying to work hard trying to do good sometimes they don't always succeed a lot of times they don't always succeed sometimes it's because you know they just they make mistakes they're human they're sometimes the competence isn't always there they're always in ill-fitting suits there's always an ill-fitting suits like i mean i can only speak the same like you tell me from my experiences in the Obama administration. But I can say confidently that the motives of just about everyone I worked with were good and pure. Did we achieve everything we set out to do? Absolutely not.

Did we make a bunch of mistakes? Fuck yeah, we did. Did sometimes people let political considerations into their decisions? Yeah, sure, that happens too. But it was not a lot of scheming. Scheming. Nice job. You know, not a lot of scheming. Scheming. Nice job. You know, to try to do bad things. That wasn't my experience.

Yeah, I mean, I think DC is a place designed to turn narcissism, ambition, and a desire to do good into progress. It takes those three things and kind of mixes them together. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. I think that there are, I think the vast majority of people working on the Hill, working in the administration, I would think, I think saying everyone's motives are pure. I think people, for the most part, want to do good. I think they're human. I think they're flawed.

I think people, for the most part, want to do good. I think they're human. I think they're flawed. I think they let their egos and ambition and desire for credit and attention get the better of them at times. I think there's way too many people running around D.C. who think they're going to be president. But for the most part, it is surprising how wonky, earnest, and devoted most of the people you meet are. And that how much of what happens in D.C DC is people desperately trying to get the press to cover their policy proposals. Yeah. No, I think it's interesting you say about motivations. I think motivations are complex, just like they are in real life. And so someone can do something

because they think it's going to make them look good. And they can also genuinely believe in that issue that they're pushing. And both things can be true at the same time. Yes. And sometimes that works out, like you said, and sometimes that does not work out very well. Right. I mean, it's the Upton Sinclair thing. It's impossible to get someone to believe something that their livelihood depends on not believing. So, yeah, there are plenty of times people who have convinced themselves that the right thing to do happens to be the thing that's in their best interest. I think that's why you see a lot of posturing and silliness.

But, again, on the whole, I think people are trying to do the right thing. Except for Paul Ryan and Marco Rubio. Some exceptions. I think a huge problem in D.C. I think Paul Ryan has convinced himself he is trying to do the right thing i think except for paul ryan marco rubio some exception i think a huge problem i think paul ryan has convinced himself he is trying to do the right thing i think he's too stupid to really know i think he's been handed a bunch of information from fucking interest groups and coke brothers and pulsars they paid and he's maybe convinced himself that it's the right path but like i don't know how you look at the results of the bush tax cuts and all the things he pretends to push for and say it was gone well, or make a living saying, we're going to put your tax code on a postcard

and then put this abomination for it that they just passed and act like it's a success. That's my cynicism. The other dangerous side of this is ideologues, people that have totally convinced themselves of the righteousness and correctness of their views despite all evidence, and I think that is a strain of harm that these people do. Yeah. Well, there's not just, the big problem with DC, in my opinion, is that it is small and it allows for groupthink. And it's not just like we talk

about ideological bubbles on left and right, but there's a sort of DC centric bubble where, you know, the conventional wisdom starts in the White House and it goes to Congress and it goes to the media there and it sort of encompasses both parties. And you don't, you know, you don't think outside the box too much because everyone you're talking to and in the green rooms and at the cocktail parties and all this other kind of shit, whether they're Democrat or Republican, all says the same thing. They all believe in the same narrative. They all think that the same things are politically wise or not politically wise. It drives you nuts after a while. And I've noticed it. I mean, we were all part of it. And when you step out of DC and when you don't live there for a little

while, you realize how silly it all seems. Yeah. Okay. Amy asks, how do we avoid another rift like 2016 in the left, especially when the so-called progressives already attacking likely female person of color candidates like Elizabeth Warren, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Cory Booker? That feels loaded in the way it was asked. 100% of the time we get questions that go basically like, how do we avoid the divide that was causing a rift inside the party when one side is so much worse than the other. Maybe the hint of an answer can be found in the question. Yeah. Look, I think there's going to be, I don't know if there's going to be a rift,

but there's going to be some argument. Let's all strap in because there's going to be a lot of debate, a lot of argument, and there's going to be some nastiness within the Democratic Party before we get ourselves a nominee in 2020. And I think a lot of it is it's important to have these debates. We've said this a million times. I think it's important to debate fiercely about the issues and about people's different positions.

I think to the best of our ability, we have to try to stay away from personality-based attacks. stay away from personality-based attacks. This is just a good reminder that history is written by the winners and that everything is viewed through the prism of sort of the results of an election. It's not like there was some, you know, soft primary on the right where mostly they got along and, you know, everyone kind of agreed. Like Ted Cruz was condemning Donald Trump or not endorsing him at the convention. So there was just as much recrimination in fighting on the right as there was on the left. It's just that they won and we lost.

So we, you know, sort of view it as maybe a piece of why the result we wanted didn't happen. I don't think you're ever going to avoid contentious primaries. I actually think they're a good thing. I think we need more candidates running and running harder on issues. And when all is said and done, you have to get on board and sign up and fight for the team. But like, I don't think we should worry about people fighting hard for what they believe in in primaries. I ultimately think it's a good thing. The Democratic Party is that debate. That's what it is. It is a collection of people arguing about the direction of liberalism. That is what it will always be. No one ever wins that argument. That never resolves. Actually, you know, one side is triumphant and their view of the world

like sort of reigns supreme for a while. But then the world changes and a new group of Democrats come along and they have a different point of view. And then the axis of the debate shifts. We are no longer debating the kind of third way strategy that Clinton offered versus the kind of change direction that Barack Obama talked about. The axis of the debate has shifted to one about how far to the left we need to go on certain policy issues in response to economic dynamism and globalism and the sharing economy and all the rest. Like the axis of the debate moves. This is where it is right now.

And ultimately, it's really positive. You know, we've seen the health care debate shift to the left. We've seen the minimum wage debate shift to the left. The fact that we lost caused us to have, I think, a lot of recrimination that was necessary, a lot of anger and fear that was ultimately necessary. But for the most part, I think the Democratic Party is pretty united. And we've seen that in our response on the Hill. And I'm hopeful about how we're going to go into 2020. Yeah, the one big difference between 2020 and 2016 is the fact that Donald

Trump is president, and we have lived under his presidency, and we'll have lived under his presidency for almost four years. And I think if you went back and told the most diehard Hillary supporters and the most diehard Bernie supporters that at the end of this, Donald Trump could be president if you don't support the other one, I don't think you'd find too many people saying, no, I'm still going to make,

I'm still going to argue about this. Like, I think most people would come together and try to avoid a Trump presidency. I think now, now that we're looking at it. I mean, just what we need is just a machine to generate a portal that we can looking at it. I mean, just what we need is just a machine to generate a portal. And we can just sort of fly through the portal and just say, this is how it goes. Or we need books where you write down events as they occur that you can look back upon and learn from.

Could you get them in the Great Courses Plus? Probably. Do they have history? Because if we could learn from that that's your thing might avoid some yeah well you're with me when i read the sense yeah mia asks of your different experiences working in the senate on campaigns and in the white house which did you like best and why what are the advantages and downsides to each campaigns the most fun yeah you're running around iowa or chicago where the hell we were. It's exciting.

It's fun. It's all politics. It's cut and thrust and fighting. The most rewarding was the White House because we actually got to do things and deliver on promises Barack Obama had made to the American people. And the most relaxing was the Senate. Yeah, they didn't even do shit. There's literally recess. Tommy and I just sat in a corner all day and we just kind of hung out.

These people are adults and they have a thing called recess where they don't go in and everyone who works for them wears khakis for some reason. Sometimes even jeans. So much khaki. So much khaki. A campaign, we say this all the time, if you ever have the chance to work on a campaign,

do it. It is the most fun. If you're into politics, it is the most fun you could possibly have even if you lose even if you lose it is worthwhile what is the best piece of advice you ever got from a mentor that's a really interesting question i mean a lot of people have told me to shut up over the years some pretty impressed actually the pretty impressive group you know i will say it's cheesy and it's maybe a bit cliched but i it was simple and it was said to me at a time where i needed to hear it where i was thinking about like what i wanted to do and it was about

what creative projects to focus on and what jobs to take and i it was for me it was in the context of like what to write next western because look i was a speech writer for years and then all of a sudden i like moved to la and all of a sudden i had a tv show on the air which happened much faster than i expected and all of a sudden that tv show uh was uh uh uh canceled uh because of its success and so i uh people liked it too... People liked it too much. They liked it too much. It couldn't make people too happy. So we took it off.

But I had to think about like, what did I want to do? And I was sort of kind of stuck. And somebody said to me, what's the thing you have to write and what's the thing only you could write? And I think it's a good, just little thing to think about when you're trying to figure out what to do next,

which is what's something that you feel really propelled to work on and that you bring something to the table that other people don't. And I think it's a good thing to keep in mind when you're trying to think about what to work on, what to do next, what you care about, what you're passionate about, what you're good at. That's good. David Axelrod told me there are two kinds of people. There are people who want to be someone and people who want to do something. And you should always try to be the latter. And I think that is such a good piece of advice because if you get caught up in trying to figure out who you want to be, the title you're supposed to have, how much money you're going to make, what job you need to get. It could lead you down a torturous path. And I think if you focus on what you love and what you want to do and the effect you want to

have and the impact you want to have, you're going to be a much happier person. And then you'll end up being that person you want to be. Yeah. Someone once told me that we make a living by what we get. Oh God. We make a life by what we give. Oh God. I could tell. That was Winston Churchill and it was on my phone. I could tell it was going to be something. Because I couldn't recall a great mentor quote, but I did have some great bosses.

Robert Gibbs. Yes. Our boss for a very long time used to say things like, I'm busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kicking contest. I remember that. That was fun.

That was fun. That's a fun guy to work with. What was it? Don't pee on my leg. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Judge Judy also used to say that. I think maybe he got that from Judge Judy.

There's some quality Gibbs-isms. I mean, I think that's just a lesson, though. It's like one great thing about the Obama campaign and the White House was there were a lot of really good people, fun people to work with. People who you really enjoyed spending time around, and that makes all the difference. Brittany asks, what was the worst Trump moment of the year and what was the best win for the resistance? It's hard.

Biggest win for the resistance, I think, is obviously defeating healthcare not once, not twice, not three times, but four times. I mean, that was, we had a two and a seven, and they had a pair of aces, and we won that. Kicked a touchdown. We kicked a fucking touchdown. I mean, that, you know, look, it was add in,

and it was our serve, and we got a hat trick. Swish. Totally agree with that. Swish. I think that's the biggest win. In terms of the damage, in terms of the worst thing that Trump did, I think you have to put Neil Gorsuch aside. I mean, I think that right now, as of this moment, to me, is going to have the largest ramifications. You know, I don't know how you compare the damage he's done to our culture, the damage he's done inside of the administration in terms of pulling us out of Paris, what he's done on the Iran deal, what he's done to our reputation.

And then on the policy front, you know, the truth is we will be unpacking the boxes filled with shit that Donald Trump is leaving behind for us for a very long time. I think that the best moment for the resistance, I actually thought about, healthcare's huge, I think Virginia. And it wasn't just because of Northam winning. For me, it was all of those first time, many of them first time candidates, young, diverse women, people of color, who won those House of Delegates seats and ran for the first time in seats that weren't competitive at all. And the sheer magnitude of the win in that state made me think that this movement is not just protesting. This is turning all of the energy and enthusiasm we had

because Trump won into actual engagement and organization. And votes. And votes. And to me, that was so, so hopeful. Worst Trump moment, it's tough tough because in terms of effect on policy right i don't think we know yet worst trump moment as like him as a human being is will be is charlottesville to me because yeah i mean the fact that a neo-nazi racist white supremacist killed a woman in charlottesville and he gave the response that he did that's so revealing about who he is and what he believes it revealed to me how utterly

unfit and forever unfit he will be to lead this country and i will never ever forget how disgusted i was by that yeah that was one of the hardest episodes we recorded, I think too. Cause I remember like I, that was like the hardest to get through. Cause I was like thinking about what Trump was saying. And then the image to me, I will always remember of the people with torches surrounding the

protesters. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. That's my, I do for me, I think it is ACA be just because it seemed like such a foregone conclusion like

the only person i ever heard express optimism that we could preserve aca was actually brock obama yeah it was kind of like chill out everybody again listen to that man but um the worst thing i don't know it's hard i think to your point about neil gorsuch like we we will it's impossible to quantify the damage i do think the mus Muslim ban is similar in that way. Telling an entire religion, telling a billion people, fuck you, you're not welcome. We don't need you, I think the damage is

incalculable to our values, to our security. But I also think that there's just a general point of when he had Sean Spicer go out and fight about the crowd size, we made fun of it. It was so ludicrous and ridiculous.

But that was in some ways the death of the hope that he might stop lying and stop treating the office with such disrespect. Yeah. And the rest is history. Yeah. I mean, just on a hopeful note, you know, one of the reasons I think it's hard to know what will be the worst thing Donald Trump has done is America is malleable and adaptable. We've proven that in good ways and in bad ways.

And I think it will be up to us after Trump to restore policies, institutions, values, culture. And I think our success in erasing his legacy will determine the worst thing that he did. Last question from Marie. What makes you most hopeful for 2018? Here's what makes me hopeful for 2018. The fact that we had wins in Virginia and Alabama solves one of the biggest problems I think we have as a party, which is convincing people who watch politics played out in the news like a blood sport to throw their hat in the ring and run. There is not likely to ever be a better year to run for public office than 2018, which means we'll have unbelievable candidates at the state

level running for congressional seats. We have incredible veterans coming out of the woodwork. We have prosecutors. We have people who are going to be able to raise money and fight hard and deliver a great message and be a more diverse, exciting, younger voice for the party. And I think that is going to overwhelm the cynical financial advantage that these shitheads have in these elections. Yeah. I would say that after the protesters flooding the airports, after the Muslim ban, and after the Women's March, I wondered to myself, are we going to be able to keep this up? After a year goes by and we are beaten down by the things Trump says and does and just the general bad news and headlines that we see every single day, like, are people just going to get tired and decide that they're going to stay home and that they can't, they don't want to do this anymore? And I would say that a year later, people are probably more energized and engaged than they were even after Trump's inauguration. And we see that, like, every time we go on tour, every time we talk to people

on social media, on Twitter, we take people's questions. It is so inspiring to talk to the people out there who are so committed to changing this country and getting him out of office and sort of reclaiming our democracy. And they don't want to back down. And the people who make me most inspired are the folks who had never paid attention to politics before Trump was president and now for the first time are committed to being involved. And that is that's just that's incredibly hopeful. When Trump won, I thought that the two biggest challenges we would face would be Democrats staying united and not tearing themselves apart during this fight. Democrats staying united and not tearing themselves apart during this fight and, you know, maintaining our belief in democratic values against an administration that wouldn't value them. And I honestly, going into Trump winning, I didn't know what that fight would look like.

And I didn't know how hard it would be for us, because what I saw when I was at sort of the darkest moments in that transition and then when he took office and he's doing the Muslim ban and it seems like the whole thing is coming off the rails, it's like look at the headwinds. They have gerrymandered the country. They have put voter suppression in place across the country. They've got the fucking Russians helping them. They built a massive propaganda apparatus at Fox News and Breitbart and Infowars. There are billionaires who have used growing wealth inequality to fund massive, massive institutions designed to stop Democrats and

stop liberals from winning. And I thought, I don't know if we can beat them. And I think once we lost, if we kept losing, there'd be no coming back. And I think what's been inspiring to me, what has made me hopeful is that despite all those headwinds, that there's enough of us that care that we can win anyway. And I think about all this energy and all these people that have come forward and have done more than they ever done before. And I think Trump has woken something up and we're active and we're talking and we're listening, we're paying attention and we get pissed at Doug Jones if he's not liberal enough and get pissed at Ralph Northam and Chuck Schumer. We know what Nancy Pelosi is up to every single day.

And you're on the fucking news every day and you're watching, you're voting and you're going to swing left, you're going into visible. And I think all that energy is still going to be there after Trump is gone. And so when I'm upset about what Trump is saying, I just think there is going to be a moment, you know, we will be here long after Trump and then we'll just be there. The biggest obstacle we've ever faced will be here long after Trump, and then we'll just be there. The biggest obstacle we've ever faced will be gone, and then we will be able to shape this country and build something better, and that makes me hopeful. It's fun for those of us who are political nerds who've been in Washington, and we've had to deal with all these acronyms and Senate procedure and election stuff. It's fun hearing all kinds of people around the country now parroting all this stuff back to us.

I've had people stop me on the street to ask me about the reconciliation process. I'm like, what planet is this? A friend of mine who never paid attention before will send me an article. He's like, hey, did you see this article in New York Times? I say, buddy, I'm reading the New York Times that was 13 years old.

Great to have you. People being like, I'm looking at the counties and the needle on the New York Times. Is it possible we could win in Deep Alba? I'm like, have we ever talked about politics before?

Is the parliamentarian going to rule that this is a, is the bird rule going to happen? The bird vow. What's going to happen? Is the bird vow real? Is the amendment your name? We go to love it or leave it.

It's like a storybook at five o'clock and they're all like, we read it, we processed it, we're on to the next thing. Make a joke, funny man. We read the story.

A former national security advisor has pled guilty to lying to the FBI. Crowd cheers. It's like, what is happening? Are they in voir dire? Well, you guys have made it fun. So thank you for listening, all of you, for this year. And we look very much forward to keeping up the fight in 2018 and at the end of 2018 celebrating the fact that we have taken back congress that's what we're

looking for let's help let's help if it doesn't happen then you know we'll be we're making fun of it this time we're with you for the duration but we'd rather the win how's that we'd rather the win. How's that? We'd rather the win, guys, so everyone get to work. Joanna asks, what role will Crooked Media play in 2018? Will you have debates, live shows, funds? Funds. Funds or funds? We'll have fun, but we'll have funds. What do you guys think?

I think that our hope is that Crooked is a place where Democrats come to debate, to talk about the future, to hear from candidates, to evaluate candidates, to be a forum, to be a place where we kind of talk about the things we care about, to figure out message, to argue about message. Like my hope is that we're going to as we move forward, like, you know, I think, let's just be honest, like, you know, it's very cool that a lot of young, active liberals, progressive Democrats are listening to this show. And that's made us attractive to people who are thinking about their next campaign, thinking about the future of the Democratic Party. And if we can be a place where we don't just talk to those people, but put pressure on those people, hear from them, evaluate the way they're talking about issues. I mean, I think that's like a cool role that we can play, like as both sort of a place where people convene and a place where we hear from you about what you think is working, what you think isn't working. We will be barnstorming the country. Also that.

Live shows aplenty. And specifically, we want to go to places where there's house seats that we could possibly flip. States like Nevada and Arizona where there's big Senate seats up in play. So, yeah, we want to do whatever we can in 2018 to help take back the House, take back the Senate. That's going to mean, obviously, more pods. That's going to mean more live shows. We're going to do things like the Crooked Seven where we try to raise money for some of these candidates trying to unseat Republicans. And who knows?

All kinds of other surprises along the way. Right, guys? Yeah. I mean, the most important part of the company, the most exciting part of the company, most fun part about the company is nights like Virginia. We actually have political success. So we're going to do everything we possibly can to try to push the rock up the hill towards those outcomes. I think that will mean a lot of time on the road. I think that'll be a lot of trying to help people understand what one or two little things they can do per week to help contribute to the resistance in a real way beyond our fantastic tweets

on a daily basis. But then like what I can't wait for is September, October and November when these elections are getting closer and closer, you can feel the momentum and we get to get out of LA, get out there with candidates and just start like knock on doors. We're going to canvas with you guys. We're going to help get out the vote and you know,

we're going to talk to candidates. We're going to push candidates. It's going to be fun. Yeah. One of the, I think one of the best times the three of us had in 2017 was when we went to Virginia. We did that show in Richmond the night before.

We did a couple of canvas kickoffs, one with Northam and the candidates, one with a couple of House of Delegates candidates. It was awesome. It was inspiring. It was energizing. We want to do that more. Hopefully it can help. And I think one thing we're going to do is we're going to bring candidates on. We're going to hear from them and we're going to hear from you. And I think one thing we'll keep doing is we're going to talk about the democratic message, what we think is working, what we think isn't working. You know, we don't just want to be a place where people come and spout off their talking points we want to push them and make sure that you know when we think the party isn't saying the things we want we think candidates are kind of not going the direction that we care about that aren't aren't living up to what we believe is is what the party should be

doing we'll speak our mind because i think one lesson of 2016 and one thing we've talked about all the time is that nobody has all the answers. You know, the Democratic Party made a lot of mistakes. It will keep making mistakes. You guys have good ideas and we want to hear from you. And so I think that's a role we can hopefully play some small part in and we'll do that too. 2018, a better deal. Respected at home, stronger in the world for a candidate who's got an economic record fighting for real people in the middle class. The middle class is the middle of our priorities. It's the heart of the heartland.

Jobs, wages, health care, opportunity for all of the people in the future. A better way to vote. Turn the page and turn America around. Big challenges, real solutions, Time to pick a Congress. Strength plus experience equals Congress. Turn up the heat. Turn America around. If you can't stand the heat, get out of

the White House. Yes, we can. Okay. Enjoy the rest of your holiday season, and we'll see you in the new year. John, Tommy, you got any parting words? We're in the outro now. Oh, we're in the outro.

We're in the outro. What was your favorite Christmas present that you already opened and received? I got... A sweater. By this time,

we will know the jacket I got Ronan. Sizing? Not just sizing. I bought him... It was a very effective internet ad about a jacket

that had many different kinds of pockets and a built-in neck pillow that blows up. I have seen that internet ad. And I said, you know what internet ad? Take my money. You got me. Take my money, internet. It's funny how well they know us.

Well, if not, that's awkward. Awkward to hear today. We'll be following up in the new year. You know what? You know what? As we record this, I also would like to note that we have talked about politics every few days for a year without stopping. And this is our first kind of respite. I'll be checking Twitter today, I'm sure.

Are we going to take a break? I'm listening to this probably from Thousand Oaks with my parents where we'll all be sitting around talking about politics and I'll be checking my old Twitter feed. I'll be in Connecticut with some chickens and some ducks. Maybe we all should be present. Let's be present. Funny joke. All right. I'm turning this off so I can be checking my old Twitter feed. I'll be in Connecticut. Maybe you should be present. With some chickens and some ducks. Maybe we all should be present. Let's be present. Funny joke. All right, I'm turning this off so I can be present. Okay, cool.