Pod Save America - Why is JD Vance so Annoying?

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Pod Save America hits 1,000 episodes, and to celebrate, Favreau, Lovett, Tommy, and Dan sit down in studio to answer your questions. Among them: Why is JD Vance so grating? Should more Democrats take Newsom's lead on social media? And who would you rather be trapped in an under-sea habitat with—Don Jr., Stephen Miller, or Marjorie Taylor Greene? Plus, ranking the media platforms that matter in a preview of our subscription-only show: Inside 2025. Get tickets to CROOKED CON November 6-7 in Washington, D.C at http://crookedcon.com

Pots of America is brought to you by strawberry. me. The clock is ticking. The days are rolling by, turning into weeks, months, years. We spend nearly a third of our waking hours at work, but the unfortunate truth is that for many of us, that's time languishing away in a job we've outgrown, or one we never wanted it in the first place, but we stick with it. What are you trying to say, John? Something I've got to tell you. You say things like, I've already put years into this place. What if the next move is even worse? Not possible. Yeah, really down in the minds here. I can't afford to take a wrong step. And isn't everybody miserable at work?

Don't fool yourself. There's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving. It's time to get unstuck. And that's exactly what today's sponsor, strawberry.me, can help you do. They'll match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you want to be. Your coach helps you get clear on your goals. Create a plan, build your confidence. and keeps you accountable along the way.

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Happy Labor Day, everyone. Thank you. To mark the occasion, we thought we'd pre-record an episode where we take some of your questions, especially because we have now hit the 1,000th episode. On this exact day. Of Potsave America. We did it. We saved. America's saved. Let's pack it up and go home.

Months of conversation about whether or not this was really the thousandth. There's zero chance it is. No, and also, by the way, doesn't a thousand episodes feel like somehow like too many but also not enough? Like it feels like we've done more, but also how can we've done that many? We've got to keep podcasting until this thing's. Too many takes. Yeah. Got to keep going.

You know, on a slightly serious note, the absolute best part of doing this for the last eight and a half years has been all of you, not you three. People listen. Thank you, John. You're cool, too. You gestured forward, but it was towards the people. Yeah, the people who are out there. But like getting to hear from a lot of you, getting to meet a lot of you, knowing that a lot of you get to meet each other through the show. And especially seeing how many of you chose not to just listen to us while we whine about politics every week, but actually get involved yourselves, which is the entire reason we started doing this. So thank you. Yeah. And so some folks send in some great stories that were inspired. And we hope, you know, we could tell them. And maybe that will inspire even more of you to give it a shot. Run for office, maybe get involved.

Isabel told us she started with the pot as a 13-year-old when her dad would play it in the car on the way to school. Sorry about the. Yeah, sorry. She's 13 in America. I think it's okay. I've been working on limiting my F-bombs. Doing my best, Isabelle. All right.

You too. You too. Trad wife over here. Isabel. Just churning his butter. Gosh darn this, Trump. Political science. Isabella's in college.

That does make me feel old. Becky said she'd never met another Democrat before she started volunteering as a poll worker. Now she is a community. Jess M went back to school as a single mom of twins to teach history and government and says she plans to run for office in 2028. That's cool. Bidco.

Real name, we're told. Ran for City Council and lost ran again in one and is still door knocking for other candidates. And then JK, which is the most likely to be a fake name in all of these. Ran for City Council, came up two votes short, won a seat for the county board, and now really enjoys work.

with the person that beat them the first time no way that's a great story how about that look at that hello bringing people together so we appreciate everybody that is already signed up to run but for everybody else we are recruiting people through votes of america to run for local office in north carolina texas and arizona and for everybody else we have a lot of big races coming up we have the redistricting in california we have an incredibly exciting inspiring candidate in new york running against Mom Donnie. We've got There's statewide races

in Pennsylvania, in Georgia. There's a Virginia. Governor's race is in Michigan. Governor's race. Dan's primary in Chris Coons? Yeah. Nice. I'm not.

I'm sorry. I've given up my residency. Someone did ask him one of the questions who's going to run Dan's campaign. So we got a couple of those. Okay, maybe I can move back. I'm not a details guy, you know what I mean? Yeah.

I want to be on the message calls like X. Yeah. I want to just think big thoughts. I don't know people deal with it. Do the narrative. Who's chewing in the background? Oh, love it. Look, if there's anybody that should say, I can't, I'm sorry, I'm not on the call.

I dropped a donut into my phone. It would be me. But I will send a lot of thoughts via email to your younger staff afterwards. Who forgets with the call on mute when they order a breakfast sandwich? I'll fill that role. So again, if you want to sign up to run in Arizona, North Carolina, or Texas, go to Votesaveamerica.com slash run, or just go to Votesaveamerica.com because there's a lot of ways you can help even in these upcoming elections.

All right. Let's get to some questions. There were a few questions about the midterm, so let's start. start there. KDR asks, Dan, with 2026 coming, I'm nervous about getting sucked into over-optimistic interpretations of the polling, but I'm also not willing to go cold turkey. What indicators polling or not should I be watching? Okay. KDR is actually me. It's like they're all fake questions. I would begin with just the simple premise that we are way far away from the 26th elections, what the polls tell us right now says it's not very connected to what will actually happen. But as we get

I think there are three things to watch. One is the polling question called the generic ballot, where they just asked if you were going to vote for a Democrat or Republican. Right now, even though it doesn't matter, Democrats have in the average about a three-point lead in the generic ballot. When we had our huge victory in 2018, the last most credible polls from like the Wall Street Journal, ABC, had the Democratic advantage at seven points.

But most people estimate they, given how narrow the House is, three would be theoretically enough to overcome Republican redistricting, but it would be quite close. But still too early to worry about that. The second thing to track is Trump's approval. Now, as Biden showed in 2022, the direct connection between a president's approval and midterm performance is not what it used to be because we're so polarized or so much negative partisanship. But Trump really, the only way Republicans can do very well in these midterms is if a bunch of the people who vote only presidential elections who voted for Trump or first time Trump voters turn out in the midterms. And I do think Trump's approval rating is somewhat connected to that measure.

And then the third thing is how people feel about the economy and inflation in particular. So those are the sort of measures that I think will tell us the most as we get closer. But there's no need to panic about it yet or get too excited yet. We have a lot of time to go. So we're not panicking about the Democratic Party's favorability being the worst it's been since at least 1990, according to Gallup. Well, at this almost exact point in 2013, the Republican Party approval rating was worse than Democrats right now. Okay, I like that. Then they won the Senate and picked up House seats in 2014.

Right. I haven't asked you this yet, but... Let's do it right here alive. Yeah, that's what I was thinking. How are you feeling about the reliability of polling right now? Do you feel the same as you did in 24? Do you feel different in any way? I feel...

The polls I've seen, especially over the last couple weeks, feel swingier to me, and that, like, the range of Trump approval has seemed quite large. Yeah. So I feel better about the midterm polls, because the problem with polling has been getting less engaged people to participate. And so when you get to a likely voter filter for a midterm election, you're just going to be, you're going to be more accurate if it is true that we continue to more accurately pull higher and people with higher political engagement, which is why the polls were accurate in 2018, and pretty accurate in 2022. The big question will be what happens in 2008 because in 2024, the polls were right, but they were, but, I mean, not to get super policos nerdy here, but I know you appreciate this, but they were. primarily right because pollsters use a statistical trick by waiting by the 2020

election results, that is probably less reliable, presuming Trump was not on the ballot in 2028. And then the question is, how do you get people, that would solve a lot of pollster's problems if he ran again. So big win for G. Eliot Morris, I guess I don't know. But so it's hard to know, it may be really hard to get, we may have a 2016-like problem in the polling in 2028 unless we can figure out some other tactics to solve that problem. Two very similar questions about the midterms that I'm combining. Tyler says all of my hope for the future is riding on a Democrat midterm sweep. What are the chances that the midterms will actually happen?

And if they do, can we trust them? And evil gamer asks, what reason does Trump or Republicans have to recognize the results in 26? Anyone like to field that? So we are, like we've talked about this in the show. like there's no single moment where an election is recognized or not recognized by Trump or Republicans. We are in some way, to some extent, protected by the fact that elections are run in this incredibly disaggregated way that will continue to be the case. That doesn't mean there won't be intimidation. That doesn't mean we won't be having to worry about everything from people claiming the

votes are rigs, people trying to shut down counts, ICE agents outside of polling places. But Trump isn't responsible for deciding who is or is not in Congress, and we shouldn't give him power that he hasn't tried to take. What does that look like? We don't know, but we're not in control of all those pieces. We have to keep an eye on it, but our job is to put ourselves in a position to win while worrying a lot about what it looks like to run an election even just 16 months or now. Did you know the Constitution gives full power on who the members of the House is to the house itself? Oh, I mean. Yeah. The issue is if they don't seat them. So, Trump tells Speaker Johnson not to seat the Congress.

So here's how this would work. So the big question was, are they going to, Trump going to cancel the midterms? You're naive for thinking they're going to happen. Trump can't cancel the midterms. That's not a thing that can happen because elections are run by states. Where the sort of the choke points are where they could really play with the elections, other than all the things you mentioned that happened before the votes is election certification, right, where you have secretaries of state in Republican states who refuse to certify.

certain elections. Now, the good news there is that most states have pretty prescriptive recount laws. And so you will go, so if it's within this margin, you have to recount. And if it stays within that margin, then we're going to do a hand recount and all that. And when you get to the end of that, as we saw in 2020, the courts will almost certainly side that the election has to be certified because you followed all the procedures. The second point is the House seats the members who are elected. And in a case where the election is not certified, as happened with Al Franken in the Norm Coleman race in 2008, you can go a long time without anyone. They cannot be seated to election certified. But if election certified, the House could theoretically prevent seating someone if they could come up with some sort of case that, like, there's fraud or it was stolen or all of that.

Now, that's hard if it's already been certified, although the good news here is that the Supreme Court is actually waiting. on this because the Democrats refused to seat Adam Clayton Powell many, many decades ago because they believed that he had, that his election was corrupt. And the Supreme Court ruled in that case that the whole, that true that the House's power in the Constitution was specifically around eligibility issues. So if you are 25 years old, citizen for seven years, resident of the district or whatever that is, then you have to be seated. So the Supreme Court would have to undo, I think it's called Powell v. Morgan or something

like that to do that. So it is, there are places they can do mischief, but there are guardrails around that. Now, guard rails have done us a lot of good recently, but so. I just think it requires, like, it's not just some, it's not just Trump from on high. Yes, that's right. It's a very important. It will require a great deal of coordination. And by the way, unanimity among Republicans and they're very narrow majority. You just like, you start to look at, like, not saying it's not possible, but like, uh, uh, the election is not going to cancel. I sure see a path of Trump, you know, beating the drum that this was illegal. legitimate and votes were stolen. I don't want to be a doomer, but like, it's very plausible.

I think the more that you hit on the most important point, which is the more urgent dangers are the ones that happened before. The votes were passed. It's suppression. I mean, Gavin Newsom brought this up when we interviewed him on Ponce America about he thinks he's going to send ice agents to stay outside of polling places. I would just say this, which is I worry about everything that we're talking about. And literally everything. Everything all the time. But I worry less only because say we knew that this is going to be the outcome that Trump fucks with it. How's that going to change our behavior now

and through the midterm? It's not. Like, I don't know what else we could do between now and the midterms to head off that possibility. So we might as well go forward and try to win the election first and then deal with the trouble

when we get to the plan. Right, that's all I mean. Like, I don't want to be Polyanish and like we could look back on this and be like, yeah, they did the worst possible version. Absolutely. But we can't have people so cynical that they think the results aren't going to matter

and that we can't overcome even if they put people outside of polling places. Yeah, because that does have an effect. Right. You're like, well, they're not going to have the election anyway, so I might as well not get involved. Self-suppress. Right.

Dan and I talked about this on Friday's pod, but would love to hear what Tommy and Lovett think. Boop to you asks, should more Democrats take Newsom's lead and go on the meme offensive, Tommy? Is that like giving a boop to a doggie, you think? A boop to you? Oh, yeah. Boop on the nose.

I don't know, whatever. I don't think, no, I don't think every Democrat should do a Trump impression, which is what Gavin Newsom is doing. I think there's a more important thing that Gavin Newsom is doing that is less covered, which is a broader strategic focus on independent media and progressive media. And I think what Gavin is doing is he's doing tons of interviews with independent media. He's been on Positive America a bunch. He's talking to Brian Tyler Cohen. He's talking a bunch of YouTubers and TikTokers.

And that's what Trump did that was really smart. He talked to the so-called Manosphere podcast. He talked to conservative podcasts. He talked to the comedy audiences all the time. And he built a relationship with those audiences. and he also helped those shows build their own presence and subscriber base. That is really smart. And so I think the Trump impression stuff is like getting them a lot of attention.

Like, I don't know. What do you guys think? In six months is Gavin Newsom doing a Trump impression? I'm a little bit skeptical. I think like its utility is getting attention. And when that utility goes away, you probably slow down or stop doing it. But the strategic focus of building up independent and progressive media is really smart in long-term and enduring,

and it's something every single Democrat needs to do. So there's a podcast called The Diary of a CEO. He does a lot of these really long-form interviews. It's incredibly popular on YouTube. And he did this interview with a pioneer in AI. I was interested in, I clicked on it. And then I looked two months ago, Gavin Newsom sat down for a two-hour interview with this guy.

I didn't know that. It wasn't something that came across my feed, but that reached a huge audience of people. That's apolitical. And like, whether the memes continue or not, like he's thinking about how to be the Democrats sucking up all the attention. Like, that to me is the plan.

It seems like it's working. Yeah. Pod Save America is brought you by fast-growing trees. Fall is planting season. Did you know that many plants and trees actually do better when planted this time of year? But you have to know where to start. That's why I love fastgrowingtrees.com. Got to go on the ground with it.

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Like, none. Not a jokester like Marco. Well, remember in 2012 when, like, Mitt Romney was such a stiff that it was like a political problem for him, and his team tried to put out, like, all this background. It's like, he's a prankster. He's a scamp. He's a scally wag. Remember that shit?

A little scallywag, Mitt. It was such obviously bullshit because then Mitt Romney would do interviews and he'd be like, I love humor. So just no one talks like that. And the same is with J.D. Vance. Like, J.D. Vance is a very angry, constantly aggrieved, whiny dude.

It doesn't matter if it's like a podcast interview or a speech to all of Europe. He's just angry and aggrieved. And then second, like, the guy is a shapeshifter. Politically, in terms of his own identity, he's had several different names. He's changed his religion recently. He has evolved his political worldview.

entirely. So, like, I don't know, I think that phoniness and authenticity is what reads. Do you think he's legitimately aggrieved or performatively aggrieved? I think he's legitimately angry little prick. I've come to believe that as well. I, like, I've thought about this a lot. Because this question, I wanted to pick it because I'm like, yes, I feel the same way. Like, I'm so enraged with him all the time, but I don't know why. Like, he has a rationale that everything they do is justified because the left hates America and is ungrateful to him and his ancestors, who are the rightful heirs to this country, and he's fucking smug. Who was to, who was he demanding, offer gratitude yesterday? We were watching an interview.

Yeah, he was demanded. Oh, well, he's done it to Mamdani. He's done it to, uh, obviously, there is someone else that I, you, you and I were watching, we were all watching J.D. Vance at her office and you're getting like mad about something. I think it was Mumdani. But in this, the fucking smugness too, like when he, because the fight that I got in with him over Kilmower Brigo Garcia was he was like you know I commented on the fact that like they made a mistake and whatever else, and he was like, obviously, you haven't read the court document on this and blah, blah, blah, like, he's like a big, and then it's like, when you read the court document, which his tweet complaining about it is now evidence in the case because the court document said the opposite of what, so he wasn't just wrong. He was like, oh, you obviously haven't read it yet, blah, blah, blah, it's like, you didn't read it, you fucking moron, but he's so confidently smug that it's real. And the thing, the difference with Trump is, like, Trump's tone is almost like, I know I'm full of shit, but at least I'm going to have some fun with it. and it's back to your original point like there is no humor there's no having fun with anything there is just like just dire smug grievance yeah there's something i i feel like i agree with that

like i i always see him and i feel like there's two parts of it one is he is he is a shapeshifter he's been performing different people his whole life and you just feel in everything he does the space between whatever he was which is now nothing and what he is now you see that when he's in the donut shop you see that like that there's just quiet like like like like Like when he's not putting on a show, it's so quiet and so stuck and awkward and strange. And like, I think there's like rage in him about all of that. Like you can feel it from him. But the other part of it is like, he made it.

He made it out of Ohio. He made it to the heights of liberal elite culture. Then he switched sides and made it to the very top of right wing culture. And he's still fucking furious. It's not working. Like he doesn't, he's not happy. He seems angry all the time. Like he's not getting the meaning from it.

He hoped. And like, who could be responsible for that? It's not him. It's not Trump. He's doing everything he's supposed to do. It's us. It's the liberals. It's the left.

Text from Michael O'Neal incoming. He made it out of Ohio. O'Haw. And my wife. He made it out of a tough part of Ohio. He had like a rough go of it. I mean, I didn't watch the movie, but the trailer went close look rough. She was in that Moomoo.

It seemed like it was tough. I don't know what actually happened in his childhood. I think a lot of, I don't know. I will all this to say, though, I still think he is a very, dangerous, not just dangerous for what he can do governing wise, but in 2028, I do not underestimate him as a very strong candidate, even though he does not have the charisma clearly that Donald Trump has or a lot of other politicians. He is an incredibly dangerous human being. He is someone is like very interesting to think of in comparison of Barack Obama because on paper, like there's

the similar background of, they, like J.D. Vance is vice president of States now because of his, the way he told his own story, right? Similar to how Barack Obama did, right? Both in Dreams My Father and the speech. And they both come from, like, what are really, really hard backgrounds. Like Obama, son of a single mother, father leaves, on food stamps. Like, J.D. Vance's story is told in a movie trailer. But the difference between the two of them is, like, what Barack Obama took from his experience was, like, how do I help all the people who came up like I did? And J.D. Vance is, how do I screw over all the people who came behind me?

Like, he just burns the bridge behind him. And it is, like, it's very malicious. it's like shame of where he came from as opposed to understanding his true story and like how that should inform his values. Ben Rhodes and I have been talking about this a lot because it does feel like when we were talking about that Claremont speech

and we talked about it on offline too, that he is the almost mirror image of Obama of the story because they both have these stories but they both went like very different ways. And they don't worship an awesome god in the blue stage. That's the problem. Yeah, right. And fuck little league. All right. This is from Over Under.

Tommy, what do you think is the top foreign policy issue that we should be paying more attention to talking more about? I mean, I think it's an obvious one, but it's climate change. Climate change, sure. I think China. It's weird because Trump ran on being tough on China. It was like the centerpiece of his populace pitch. And now it's just absent from the conversation. And it's sort of weird to me. Like, and then I think his president, he's been soft on China. Like, he recently agreed to let NVIDIA sell these like pretty high-powered AI chips to the Chinese. very weird. He's been softs on Taiwan. The tariffs have been all over the place. And then Trump made this announcement the other day where he's said we would allow 600,000 Chinese students into the United States to study. And it's actually inflame the right wing. And it's just hard to understand. And so Ben and I are going to, Rhodes and I are going to dig into this deeper

on POTSafe the world next week. But I do think, like, given the stakes involved, it's odd that there's not more conversation about it. Can I ask you, what's going on in Venezuela? Are we going to war with Venezuela? What is happening there? Are we attacking? them? They're sending a bunch of naval ships and assets down to the region for like counter cartel something. To interdict boats?

No. Well, there's been a steady kind of effort to name drug cartels and gangs as terrorist organizations and to officially designate them and to sort of like socialize this idea of going to war with cartels

with or without the approval of the countries involved where the cartels are actually working. Mexico, for example. And now we're setting naval assets down to the region. It feels like they are trying to merge the war on drugs and the war on terror. And like the immigration stone here. Yeah. Do you think they have read the book or seen the movie Clear and Present Danger? Probably not. Or the movie Sicario Day of the Salado, which is the exact plot of? I've not seen that. Dan, I think about the movie Clear and Present Danger all the time. It's one of movies that are part of a canon of political thrillers where the end result is someone tells the truth publicly to solve the

problem. And if you imagine now a deep stater going for Congress and saying, actually, President Trump did this in a corrupt way, the credits don't roll. You know, the problem isn't solved. It's so funny. We've, 1,000 episodes. I feel like we've had this conversation before. We did. In fact, and I remember because the last time I said it's also the plot of Lioness Season Special Operators, Lioness Season 2, and you guys said, what the hell is that? So I left that out here. It was actually the last time we did a mailbag, to be clear. Oh, my gosh. I'm sorry. Hey, hey, is a good enough point to hear it again. Who is the most controversial guest that you would low-key have on the show?

You can't low-key have a guest. You can't ironically have a guest. But yeah, who would we want? Yeah, no, I didn't. I know, I'm just quoting. I know. I'm just thinking about it. Isn't the question, doesn't it come down to it?

Would you have Trump on the show? Yeah. Of course. For sure, yeah. Yeah. J.D. Vance, sure. Yeah. Joe Biden.

He won't come on. Hunter. I think Tucker Carlson would be interesting. Yeah. I think this gets... Would you ask him about his new 9-11 Truther documentary that he's...

No, I'm unaware of that. But you would ask him if he was on. Well, I'll be honest for the listeners. Like, I reached out to him when he was talking about his opposition to the U.S. bombing Iran and asked if he would come on. He declined, but he was polite about it.

But I think he occupies an interesting space or he's clearly, MAGA, has some very extreme views that I find abhorrent, but also doesn't always tow the party line in a way that is interesting and I think makes him powerful in that space. Well, and then there's the creeping anti-Semitism

that he's more and more flagrantly putting on display that's part of it too. Yeah, I don't know. It gets to the bigger question, which we get a lot, depending on we have guests, is like, why are you platforming these people? And I think one of the points I think we've tried to make to people

is if someone already has a huge platform, they are platforms. They are already platforms, right? And so the goal here is to have a conversation where you can hold them accountable for some stuff. You can ask hard questions. You can engage in a conversation on, like, at least you put with Tucker across in like an area.

Yeah, my goal with Tucker would have been to talk about why going to war with Iran is a bad idea and why Republicans and Democrats both agree that Donald Trump shouldn't get sucked into this conflict. Yeah. If someone is influential, you can't stop the influence. So just by not having them on different shows. Yeah, we've tried that.

We've tried that. Remember Twitter? Twitter and Trump. And everyone got upset. Bernie Sanders talked to Joe Rogan. And then it's like, well, that didn't work, did it? You guys have any controversial guests you'd have on? Mine would be Madaglacius.

Kidding. I just don't even think about it that way anymore. I just think that that's like a not a way to think of. Like, whoever would be interesting to talk to you. Biggest dickest asks. Didn't make that up. Serious question. I'd really like to hear the crooked people's opinion on.

I'm a government-side civil defense attorney and I'm being softly recruited. to be a civil assistant U.S. attorney in a major metropolitan city. I'm here, so it's fair to say I don't share the politics of the administration, here being our discord. This is a job I've really always wanted, but the realities of the moment make me want to run away. Is there any value or realistic need for people like me who care, are ethical, et cetera, and joining the federal government at this time, presuming that eventually we're back in control, would I just be setting myself up to be purged and then hit the market with a scarlet letter on me? I thought this is interesting. Can I ask a question that someone else can answer the substance? Do you think

you end up with the Discord name Biggest Dickus because you join to like talk about Call of Duty when you're 13 and then your interests evolve over time. Right, right. They're talking about why. And all of a sudden, you just have the name Biggest Dickus and you don't even realize.

Do you remember messaging important communications advice to someone named Yum Pete and ice cream? Yes, that was our friend, Bill Burton. On AOL Messenger, the Discord of our time. Yes, yes. I thought about this one. Like, I think I would not have said go in to the administration in the first term.

I think in this term, you do it. And I think you try to be a reasonable voice, you try to push things in the right direction, and failing that, at least be there to document what's going on and to hopefully tell people. Like, I kind of think that's the situation we're in right now. Go in and take copious notes. Yeah, I mean, I do.

And that specific role, yeah, like that specific role, right, would be you'd have a pretty, there's a pretty big kind of like, yes or no question around whether or not you should be there when you're sort of handed, case. And you're like, oh, this is about trumped up charges against Kilmart, Abrago Garcia, I'm out. But until then, being inside and being a good person inside, like, it's not about whether you take the job or not, someone will be in the job. Should it be you or should it be somebody else? Right. And by the way, the people who quit because they didn't want to bring the case against

Abrago Garcia and Tennessee, that was a signal to everyone else until future judges and future courtrooms that like, yeah, this is a fucked up case. Yeah, I guess I don't know how much discretion you have in these jobs, really. I defaulted to where you were. Like, I think take the job, see if you can improve it from within the person who's going to take it if you don't will probably be worse but yeah at some point you're going to get asked to prosecute the dude through a hoagie and you know then it's a nutcut in time and you walk out yeah i don't i don't think you like you stay there forever right i mean i'm thinking about all the cdc folks that just got pushed out right and they were like look didn't agree with them wanted to try to make it work tried my

hardest to like you know do the maha agenda with as much integrity as we could have and to make it is as best as possible, and it just didn't work, you know. Can I just read for everyone a quick Maha headline? Yes, please. Because I just want everyone to know how healthy we are making this nation. I'm vamping because this Twitter is slowly, slowly loading. New York Times headline, Pediatric Brain Cancer Group to lose federal funding. A network dedicated to early-face trials of treatments for children with brain cancer will be phased out.

Thank you very much to RFK Jr., the HHS team, and everyone at the Maha world making us healthier by, you know, throwing kids out of a trial for pediatric brain tumors. I give you another MAHA headline from today, all sorts of New York Times. The Dr. Osrun Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services today is launching a pilot program where they will now require prior authorization for medical procedures. And because normally in Medicare you do not need that. They just grant it. And they've hired AI companies who are going to use AI to decide which are needed and which aren't. AI death panels. And the AI death panels. Right. Robot death panels, that's what we're at.

And the AI companies make money based on the savings they get Medicare, so they are financially incentivized to deny care, two seniors on Medicare. Pilot program in six states. I hope it's Palantir. A couple of them are swing states. I noticed Arizona's on that list. How do we not make a thing out of AI death panels? I feel like this.

I know. What are we doing, Democrats? The AI death panels are distraction. From what? From the pediatric counselors? From what? From what? The tariffs.

Stop. All right, friendly cabbager merchant What does Cricket see as the next steps for a strong progressive media ecosystem? A convention or policy event similar to what MAGA has? Media Partnerships Consolidation, question mark? Boy, do we have an event for you guys? It's called CricketCon. It's called CricketCon.

I hope CricketCon is much like TPSA where there's alleged fingering in the lobby. There's fistfights between MAGA influencers. I'm sorry. This is the first I'm hearing of supposed fingering. Oh, my gosh. Dude, you got to read about Will Summer. Oh, you might have been on vacation when this came out. Will Summer at the bulwark did a long report on a huge Twitter fight between some MAGA influencer types that revolved around an alleged incest.

Alleged, that's right. Consensual fingering? Oh, yeah, very much. Just in a public space. Consensual, but like, you know, people might have been married and there's all these allegations like, oh, apparently a lot of shit goes down at TPUSA of a sexual nature. Yeah, so CrookCon is going to be like that. For sure. For sure.

That's what I'm saying. Get your tickets. Meet the love of your life. See you in the lobby. Meet the love of your life or meet the love of your weekend. Huh? Couldcon. It works.

Did you guys read that directly for the marketing team's pitch? I think that works. I think that's pretty good. Anyone else want to pitch cricket crime? I mean, I think that was the best pitch for it. Oh, yeah. We're going to have a good time. Less pointing fingers among Democrats.

That's finger pointing. Less finger pointing. More. The circular firing squad is something else entirely. I'm triggered. Oh, boy. I'm out. What was that, Tommy?

I'm sorry. Get back to your butter churning. This is my bad. This is my bad. I understand you have a new sourdough if you're starting. We've got a new starter. Oh, boy.

Well, I guess he technically did not use profanity there. That's true. That's true. That's true. We're excited about CrickCon. It's filling up fast. Yeah. We're going to Potsave America the night before.

I don't care about it. Jesus. We're going to Pots Save America in the night November 6th, live show. We haven't done a live show in a while. I know. It would be great. And then on Friday the 7th, we're just going to we're going to have all these panels. They're not robot death panels. They're just

we're going to have people really smart, great people. Some of the brightest minds in the party. Some of the brightest minds in the party and us. Some big politicians. Yeah. Some overlap in that Venn diagram. Hopefully more as we go along. We're going to have some good good conversations and you know, we hope to see you all there.

Cricketcon.com.com. Pod tape America is brought to you by HIMS. HIMS can't solve snoring or blanket stealing, but when it comes to performance, Tommy, they've got you covered. Rock solid. Take control of ED with personalized treatments made with proven ingredients prescribed by licensed providers 100% online.

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actual price will depend on product and subscription plan. Feature products include compounded drug products, which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for details, restrictions, and important safety information vis-a-vis owners. Do any of you guys play fantasy football? Are you excited for football in general this year? Are the Pats back?

Do you have to start with the Pats, Tommy? I don't know if we're back, but we're better. I mean, Drake may look good. Mike Vrabble's good. Josh McDaniels is back. pick it up Stefan Diggs. Trivian Anderson. Yeah, we get some good players.

So I play fantasy football. This is, I am a, I play a lot of fantasy football. It's really a house. Are you in multiple leagues? I'm in multiple leagues. That's hard to see track of, Dan. Well, I'm in two main leagues. I have a dynasty league on top of that.

And now I now play best ball, fantasy football. What's that? Basically, you pick your, you draft your team at the beginning of the year. You play in, like, large field tournaments. And then you don't have to do anything. It just takes the best scores. You have to manage it. That is so much to keep track of.

Well, the best ball thing, once you do it, it's done. I wasn't too much one year, and I was like, I could barely fucking pay attention. I think more people in politics should do fantasy football or I'm not going to urge people to do gambling, but I do think there is like a real lesson in understanding that's like applicable to political strategy. There's like understanding value and understanding ceiling versus floor outcomes because like that's what you're always trying to pick. You're trying to find someone who has the best possible outcome

and you're willing to take on additional risks to do that. And the Democratic Party lives in a world of high floor, low ceiling, and all of our decision making. And so, but yeah, I'm a fan of football lunatic. I really picked it up during the pandemic and haven't let it go. You know, I moved out here in 2014, and that was like the last year I paid attention to sports in any way because my head started getting like so into politics. And every year, I'm always like, I think I want to get, like, because baseball is really,

There's just, like, so many fucking baseball games. But football is, like, really fun every Sunday to West football. And every year I'm like, I'll either do fantasy football or something that, like, makes me pay attention to football. Now that I have fucking two kids, it's like, I don't know how I'm going to. Well, so I was a Washington Commander's fan, so, which you couldn't even use the name of my team for, like, a decade in public discourse. So it's, like, very hard to follow them. We're going to be heading back to it, though. It's right, according to Trump.

Yeah, good point. But so fantasy was, like, the way in which I stayed very involved in football. And I also living on the West Coast, football is great because it's over, it's over 8.30. Yeah. It starts at 10 a. which is awesome. And then if you have small children on the London game, when it starts at 6 a.m.

Yep. Is like a real gift. Bet the Lunder. You know, this conversation made me think of something that pissed me off about J.D. Vance. I remember what it was. So J.D. Vance did an interview yesterday

with this guy on Fox name Will Kane who's basically a set of veneers who was given a show. And they were talking about like, they were talking about Ohio State versus Texas, I think. And clearly he had been prepped that this was going to come, right? Because like, Will Cain's like, I got my orange tie and you're a Buckeyes guy, J.D. And J.D. is like,

I'm told the. the Buckeys are an 11 point dog and Will Kane who came from sports media was like no, that's like not even close to the line He couldn't even pretend to be nice to him like It was funny because it was a rare moment When Will Camden's like, what are you talking about? If you understand anything about gambling

Lines or football, it would be fucking absurd for the defending national champion It's a dog at home Like it's impossible. It's crazy, it's crazy So like again, total phony Was beclowned on Fox News. By a clown, literally. It was the first be clowning ever done by a often-be-clowned person, Wilcane.

Yes. To our earlier conversation, immediately blamed someone, nameless on it. Yeah, blamed the staff, yeah. He was like, someone, I don't know, someone sent me a link with the line. Someone sent me that line. Did they? Did they, I think you had a prep document. I'm glad that you're getting good information all the time.

You want to talk about the Pats at all? Did we talk about the Pats? We did. We, uh, sorry, I think it's done. Which part? This part of the show. It's the long as you've ever been silent on podcasts. Monica Not Monica asks

Labor Day special Since it's Labor Day You are attending a holiday cookout And must choose between A paper plate with two hot dogs A scoop of potato salad And a wedge of watermelon Or a paper plate with a cheeseburger

Bean salad and two chocolate chip cookies There is a condiment table With standard toppings But between you and it Is someone who wants to critique Your recent Twitter posts So you may have to do without You have arrived late

And the only remaining beverage to pair with your food is La Croy Limoncello. Which plate are you taking? Why is this question her in my head? Why is the paper versus normal play? Why is that so highlighted? Because I'm sure this person thinks you don't need a straw with your coffee. So I think it's for me. I missed the paper. Oh, I miss the paper plate part. Here's what I do. I take the cheeseburger in one hand. I take the two cookies. I just throw the bean salad out. 100%. And the limoncello. Yeah, I don't want the limoncello. It's the whole thrust of the question. They want it. They're trying to figure out whether you let you want, you want. a hot dog, hamburger, bean salad, whatever,

and whether you're willing to, whether you love condiments so much and you engage in an awkward conversation about your Twitter feed to get them. I just took it as like which plate, you can't have any condiments, which plate do you pick? To me, it's easy. I just pick the hot dogs. Yeah, I would pick the hot dogs.

Bean salad is not that, and I like watermelon, and bean salad is not that great. What is it? It's like, there's some mayonnaise and beans. Let me tell you. That's, yeah. And I like potato salad and I like hot dog. Yeah, that's great.

That's me. I don't know. Anyone else? And I think if somebody criticized it, like, I think the best thing to do if somebody talks to you about something you don't feel like talking to

but I'd probably just agree with them more than they ever expected. It was a stupid post. Right here, I'm out. You're right. I totally hear you. I totally hear you. It was stupider than even your saying.

Man, do I regret that? Moving on. Have never gotten in a fight with someone in person over my tweets. Yeah, this is not likely that happened. Yeah. I know that's a surprise a lot of you. Handypants.

You guys have been doing the podcast Sent this in directly from TPUSA conference Confirmed a cricket con You guys have been doing the podcast for a good while now 1,000 episodes Looking back at those first few years How have each of you changed as podcast hosts? Who would like to begin?

See there's a lot of growth Yeah, I was like, I changed this show That's what I've been here I don't know like it's like I think like we over the years I mean part of it is like did we change did the environment change but like I do think one thing like it got worse I think during the pandemic like we we said from the beginning you know when we had like a slogan right want to entertain inform we want to inspire action and like informing people and talking about what people do to do to get involved like that's a little bit more objective than what's subjective which is just being

entertaining and I think there were times where we got so concerned about the mission that we didn't focus enough on like what we were really in which is this crazy attention war and I think sometimes we felt like oh people would message us like you guys got to talk about climate change it's so important and so then we would try to force it in or try to prove we were doing what we were meant to do as like good members of the resistance which led to I think a worse product and I think we've gotten more comfortable just feeling like it's very important that people come and come back because it's like a fun conversation. And that's not like a nice thing.

It's like a necessary thing. I think that's one thing we've done differently over the years. It's taken me a while and I've not gotten there yet, but I think more about what do I want to say about this and not and less about how it's going to land necessarily because I think if you're constantly like, oh, this take will get me in trouble or someone's going to be mad about this and whatever else.

Then it just makes you, it makes the conversation tighter. and also just harder to have, and you just start feeling like, if I have a platform to say this stuff, I might as well say what I, it does not be thoughtful about what you believe, but, like, I just try to say what I believe, you know. Like, I love doing this podcast. I'm very grateful to you guys for starting this company so I can do this podcast. Like, I love talking about politics, they're talking about smart, entertaining people who are my friends. I would say that for a very long time, I, like, had a real identity crisis about being a podcaster. It's just, it's like, in my life, like, I always was, like, a political operative. Like, that's what I was from the second I left college and just what I always was.

And then all of a sudden, I was a podcaster. And I will say that when I left the White House, Barack Obama, as he would do, had some of life advice for me. And I told him that I was negotiating with CNN about doing, like, a cable deal. And it's like, Axe was doing that. Jake Carney had just finished one. Like, a bunch of his people were doing it. He's like, it was like, that's a good thing to do right away, like keep your profile.

It's like, but I just don't want to look up in 10 years and still see you on cable TV all the time. Like, that's not what you want. And so, like, boy, don't worry about that. That whole economy is going to fall apart. And so that, like, has always haunted me about, like, you were media people. And it's, but it's this conflict between... And then he went and started a media company. Yeah, yeah, no, no, no, I think.

Yeah, he's like, anyway, check him out with Bruce Bracey. That's right, yeah. Well, I can't turn on Netflix, not hearing his voice, talking about some migrating manatees. But I think... These manatees make the cars right here in America. but like there was this more like it took a while it's really has been probably since in the last couple years we're just like this is politics now yeah politics and media are the same and it's information warfare even though i would like say those things and write those things like it took a lot

to like adjust in my head that like the way i will contribute to politics going for is not like being on conference calls like going through pulling data for candidates like you used to do or like working on messaging or pitching reports of the other thing it's being it's like having a platform and using it and thinking about ways in which you can grow the platform and other people can grow the platform and stuff like that. It's understanding that media is politics now. Yeah. Yeah, you want to clear a room? Tell people you're in podcasting. You know what I mean? Can I tell you the hardest thing about just like going about life is when you're like at the playground with your kids or you're at a birthday party with your kids and like, so what do you do? Yeah, no, it's hard. I never engaged on that.

in an Uber on the way home from a trip recently I told the guy I was a consultant and usually that just like ends the whole thing and he's like what do you a consultant in? And I was like PR. He's like you mean like marketing? And then he, I then had an hour conversation where I just had to pretend I was in marketing because his wife was in marketing. He's like how many Uber drivers I've just like podcasting and then by the end of the Uber they're like oh pod save America. I'm a subscriber. I can't do that. I would not be in sales. The reaction of this had changed a lot over time. Like 2017 when I was like Hannah, can we please move from San Francisco to Los Angeles so that I could do a podcast. I can do a podcast. podcasting company with my friends. It was like, that was a challenging conversation. You know, people in my life were like, you have a plan B, right? There's a lot of that. Um, and now it's, now it's far more mainstream. She's, dirty hairy thread of my wife. Pretty happy now. Um, no, now it's like a very different thing. It's like what, like, it was a much more niche thing. I think it's a more widespread. Um, I think you're right. The end of the, like, the kind of media piece of politics is so much more important now. It's so much more central. It's like, I think the way I would think about it is, like, we all spent so much time shaping the words,

and now the clear challenge is getting the words to the people. And, like, being a part of the last mile is, like, interesting and fun. Yeah. Schumer fan 69. If in the near future, someone can go to chat GPT and ask it for a political podcast to catch up on the day's news, are you worried you will be replaced? Kind of. I mean, there'll probably be an older, like, some generation that wants real people to do their news.

but then there's going to be folks who just could care less is what I think I've been working on a on the side in AI podcasting company is he going to get ahead of this yeah yeah are they going to let you be part of AI Dan well I'm starting out in charge how that ends I don't know but yeah it's called great point Dan I'm like I go back and forth about I feel like AI we get we get bogged down because it's like an abstraction right like it's a it's a tool that can do a lot of different things and so like Was the hammer good for, like, it's like, it's a very, it's a very broad question. And I feel like sometimes it's like, do I think like technology that can imitate real people to confuse people into thinking they're real is good?

I don't do. Am I worried about that as I am? All these other implications? No. Because on some level, like, it would just be doing an impression of the things that already existed, right? And people ultimately are seeking something out that feels new. So it's like, am I worried about something that's kind of a mirror of what people have already done? not as much, but maybe not as much as I should be.

I don't know. I'm worried about AI a lot. As anyone can listen to offline knows. But on this point, I do think there's a limit to, AI is limited by its inability to be creative. For now. For now. I even, but like, if AI is always going to be scraping the internet

or the entire world for information, and that's what's like, there's just something. And I notice it when you, just to try it out, like when you ask it to write or you ask it to do stuff like that, It's just not, I know it's going to get a lot better. I can imagine it being extremely proficient and accurate and all this kind of things, but there's just an added, like the humor, I think, is not as good as it could, as sharp as it could be. It's just, I don't know if it'll ever completely replace human creativity.

In terms of just like being a newsreader, yeah, no, I think that's a. Yeah, it's like, it's hard to, it's like hard to wrap your mind around because it's like, the technology is improving. And it's like, okay, what can it improve, like, what does it look like when it's maximally improved and what are the limits that are like endemic to the technology and one of the thing one of the like limits of it is like it is of the past it's it has to be of the past and we're not we're we're making new things totally and like that is a protection like that is something that like I think like it's it traps you in the moment I did it scraping and that can never change

right no matter how good it gets right I can't change I mean we all we're all trapped for the past and we have the capacity to take what's in the past and use it to project new things forward. That's sort of where I am too. It's like I think that's what creativity is. It's like kind of taking information that already exists in your brain and like connecting different strands

than might thematically. People might not think of otherwise. Yeah. I think what it's missing though is human is individual human experience. Right? Like I can't ever. Potentially, unless till it reads all the memoirs in the world. Well, but but I, but then like, okay,

it's also when it does, when like you see a photo or when like someone makes a video or a fake photo, wow, that looks really real. It only has a function in a world where people expect most things to be real, right? What is it doing an impression of? Of real things, right? And in a world where there are fewer of those real things,

it starts to have less meaning and have less utility because it has to do the trick. Yeah. Like it has to do the function of replacing someone. Those people need to exist to be replaced. Right, right.

Well, we'll see. Christy Noam's Injector asks, due to a series of shocking coincidences and mishaps you find yourself trapped in an undersea habitat stocked with food and water and little else the seas are rough and it will be and it will be between two and three weeks until you are rescued oh so two and three weeks okay you are down there with one other person

it's either Stephen Miller Don Jr. or Marjorie Taylor Green of the three who do you hope it is? That's an easy one Don's got drugs it's not Stephen Miller yeah that's that now who it's an easy one for you marjor taylor green yeah what a great way to meet your crush yeah you're doing workouts you were gonna go don junior well i just want to make a joke about him having a bag but i

think marjorie taylor green is um a more fully formed person surprisingly what's interesting is when i made up these questions those two were those two were tied for me stephen miller's like you push him out of a habitat well i i thought it was more evenly balanced i push myself out of the habitat right you did exactly i Christy Knobs Injector. Yeah, I'm Christy Knobs Injector. Yeah, I love it to this question.

And I thought it would be more balanced in part because, yeah, like, yes, but as I say it, no, I think we all, like, you would rather spend the time with Marjorie Taylor Green because I do think she has a genuine ideology. But so to Stephen Miller, but he's so heinous. But wouldn't you maybe, like, learn something trying to kind of understand him? No. I don't think I could do that. Keep in mind on his, on Katie Miller's podcast, J.D. Vance did say if he could pick one cabinet member to fly. a transatlantic with next to on a plane, he would pick Stephen Miller, even though Stephen Miller's not in a cabinet. That's how much he liked Stephen Miller. He said that to Stephen Miller's

wife. Yeah, but she gave him an out with the cabinet. But just a perfect example of why he's the phoniest loser. That is such a lame answer. It is not what the question asked. You're kissing the ass of the person you're naming. It was like, you suck. In fairness, probably more powerful than most of the cabinet, though, so. Yeah. I think the answer asks me more your telegram. I mean, just imagine you could anger on for conspiracy theories. So, like, it's day seven here. So I wait for the rescue boat. Tell me about the Jewish space laser again. Or the Crosfit classes for free. Yeah. You think you could get, though, good info out of Don Jr. that could be useful somehow. Yeah. That's the only thing that just popped

in my head. That's interesting. He probably is good stories. Well, I think as many intelligence agents have figured out over the years, a little bit of flattery, a couple drinks, he eventually softens. that's true okay this is this is Lovett's second question I'm with that little

I'm I'm with that little girl is me solid combo you can open a portal right now you will either see yourself 20 years ago or 20 years from now would you rather tell your past self about the future

to change our present or learn about the future so that you can shape it from this point forward. That's a really good one. I'm definitely going to the future. I feel pretty good about where my life is now. Wait.

Right. You can either go to the past and make your present better, or you can go to the future and have knowledge and bring knowledge back to the present. And you'll go to the future. I'll go to the future,

both because I think you can maybe help you in the world, but also, just like in back the future too, I would get the lottery numbers and the Super Bowl winners. Austin has a thumbs up to that. No, you fly back and go back in time, you either say, buy Bitcoin, or you go in the future

That's a good point. I did not think about that. Run from the machines. Yeah, tell the machines you really like them starting in 2020. Be nice good machines. What if you go to the future, though, and it's just like an apocalyptic wasteland? That'd be bad. And you don't know how or why. You've really caused me to question my initial answer here.

But what's interesting about this, what I'd like about this is this is going in the direction I thought, because I did think everyone's initial response would be, well, I love my life. Yes, Trump is bad and things are bad, but this is the life that I have. And where I led, I'd love to change my future. My initial response was go to the past. But the thing is, if you do go to the house. No, no. It's funny because you, this is how it's hard, broken my brain is.

I didn't even think about my personal life. I just thought about the politics in the world. And I was like, we go back and we don't write that joke. Don't give those jokes. Good to see you, Mr. Trump. You're going to have a proud future in politics. And tonight I'm naming Donald Trump to my cabinet. Hey, you know what you need to do?

Run the Kennedy Center, starting to. Today. Oh, that would have been so good. Yeah. Yeah, but it's interesting, right? Because then you're saying, okay, I would like to have information about the future to change it. But you didn't have that about a present you currently have that you wouldn't change.

And if you went back and gave yourself in the past information, it would not only give you power now, it would give you power 20 years from now. So that to me is what's interesting about it. It's interesting. Cool. Yeah, buy Bitcoin. Smart. You go in past future?

No, I'm a real butterfly effect person. I feel like anything I changed in the past might impact today and then like, what if my kids aren't going to make out with your mom? Like, why do you fly? I knew exactly what the fuck are you Googling. We knew what he met. Oh, got it.

Every second. Tommy, Tommy's, like, Tommy, Tommy flipped out. I was just saying, by the way, that Hannah enjoys the lifestyle now because you're a very successful media company. That's literally all I was saying. It was true. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp.

Who do you go to in order to solve your life's problems? The group chat, oversharing with strangers. Jesus. Go to Jesus. Yeah, it can't go wrong. Can't go wrong? Speaking to praying and so forth. That helps.

I'm at my roommate sophomore year. Oh, your roommate sophomore year. Yeah. Okay. Also a good person to talk to. Great advice. BetterHelp has been helping people find solutions to their problems for over 10 years and have a 4.9 rating out of one.

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absolutely do have to good point there's a lot of people that can't get therapy and that's wrong but if you can uh you should you just should as a largest online therapy provider in the world. BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com slash PSA. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P.com slash PSA. All right. Last thing before we go, you're about to hear a special preview of our subscription show Inside 2025. If you're not already a member, we really hope you'll consider signing up. Dan, Elijah only wants you to do these pitches, which I know is a signal to the third.

of us that we don't do them as well. And he's right. And you do do them better. It's important that it makes me want to try harder. Especially now that we're literally substack competitors. I think it's good for me to do this. Yes. It's a example why Democrats fail, right? Because it's not because of the words he's going to use. He's a trusted messenger. We haven't built enough credibility. So it's not like we have the magic. We said what Dan said. It wouldn't work. So the usual pitch is you would get ad-free episodes. You need to hang on the Discord, which are all great things. People like that. But I think the reason to be a subscriber is the mission of this company, the company you guys started 1,000 episodes ago, was to build

a... Give or take a few. Just go with the bit. The company you guys built a thousand episodes ago, give or take a few, was to build a counterweight to the right-wing media ecosystem. And when that started, the idea was Fox News. And now it is much bigger and more dangerous than Fox News. And the need for a counterweight is even greater than ever was before.

You can argue that we almost lost the 2020 election, lost the 2024 election, because Democrats lost the ability to communicate with large swaths the American people. The way to fix that is not to double down on the old broken media system. It is to build an alternative, to build an alternative independent media system. So your $10 a month, I think it is, it goes to help do that. It helps the company develop new initiatives, develop new shows, get bigger, reach new audiences, find more talent. And so it is an investment, just like your contribution to a political campaign or a PAC. is an investment in a better, more progressive, democratic future.

Can we put some fucking patriotic music on it? That's how we do that. That's why Dan does the pitches, guys. And we're now on Substack, alongside YouTube, Apple Podcast, Supercast, and all the info you need to be part of all this is at crooked.com slash friends. Here's Inside 2025. All right, let's do a gimmick, as Bill Simmons calls it. I'm revealing myself as a Bill Simmons listening.

I mean, Bill Simmons, obviously, legendary podcaster, and in many ways, responsible for the creation of this podcast. But I don't think he invented the word gimmick. I'm like, what I don't know, man? I was just like, what do I call this? Well, Simmons calls it a gimmick, so I'm just going to call it that. Okay. Before this recording, I gave you guys a prompt.

Here's the prompt. You're a political consultant, and you can magically make the campaign that you're working on, have a robust presence in any of the platforms listed here. TikTok, Facebook slash meta slash Twitter slash substack, TV news, podcast slash YouTube, and then digital and linear paid advertising. Rank those in the order you'd prefer your campaign to have a robust presence on. And then let's see how much you guys align. Dan, what's the most important for you? Before Dan goes, can I just ask why you grouped, I know Facebook and meta, obviously, but why you grouped Facebook, Mehta, Twitter, and Substack altogether? I don't know, man. I was looking back on

this and I was like, why did I do that? I don't know. Can I redo your gimmick? Just real fast. Can we redo it? Yeah, my thought was TikTok is just its own beast, but... It should be TikTok is one. YouTube is another. Instagram is a third. Facebook is a fourth. Substack is a fifth. Linear advertising is a sixth. Those are your six. Well, now I don't...

Did I say... Podcasts and YouTube be together? Yeah, podcast and YouTube be together. I think they should. Okay. That is because, John, as you know, most podcasts are watched on YouTube. That's right. That's right. Wait, so what are we taking out now? Facebook meta-Twitter-Sub-stack. Which ones are we removing? Let's just, I guess you could put Twitter in there, but just make them individual.

Okay. All right. Cool. Like, subsack is one. So Facebook, Instagram is one, basically. Sure. No one, no one would ever pick Facebook in 2025. It's ridiculous. In Twitter and stuff. What's the other, what's the other option? Parchment paper? Like, what are we doing? Dan, what's your number one? We'll work through it. We'll talk about how combine these things are. It will be messy, but what's your number one pick here? YouTube. And I don't think any, there's no other. You can't pick another option.

It's not even close. John, do you align with that? Yes. Yes, I do. Can I guess it's because YouTube feeds all the other ones. You get clips on, you do something on YouTube, and then you get clips on all the other ones, including cable news. That's where most people in the country are watching,

we're getting their content right now. YouTube is TV. That's the thing that people don't recognize is that, More people, most, many people are now watching their YouTube, not on their phone, not their time, not on the laptop, but on their actual television. In 2024, one billion hours of YouTube were consumed on TVs globally. And that number is going up. It's particularly going up among Gen Z. Yep. Okay. So then what's your number too? If it's the same thing, I'm going to be upset. I hope you guys have some deviations. No, because there's clear answers here. It's TikTok and you shouldn't pick anything else. John? Get ready. Oh, please say Facebook.

Well, first of all, there is, there is a fuckload of people still on Facebook, just not any, any people under 40. And under 60. Yeah, right. I was going to say, this is different now that we, this is all fucked up now that we have changed the categories. But I was going to say Twitter substack, because I do think if you are running a campaign, there's still, there's still an influence, an influential set of people in politics and media that you're going to have to reach. and you're going to have to talk to. And it's not, I have to sit down with the New York Times or the Washington Post editorial board or anything like that.

But I think you kind of need, if you're going to have a campaign presence, you're going to have some presence in the world of journalists, influencers, sort of the traditional establishment gatekeepers. And that's one of the reasons why we're going on Substack, because unlike a lot of other places where people get podcasts and content these days,

Substack actually has a very robust, very successful discovery algorithm. I have benefited from this as I spent the last five years building a newsletter on Substack. And it is incredibly helpful. It has helped me find other newsletters that I'm very interested in. It has grown in my newsletter. And one of the reasons to be on Substack is to help us reach new people who might be interested in our content. And their algorithm helps us do that. Where did you have TikTok ranked, John?

Three. Next one. Okay. And then, Dan, what was your three? at Instagram. Interesting. Okay. Why Instagram? See, I'm going to build a bottom-up campaign

where I'm going to reach voters first and then the elites that John is fighting with on Twitter will then see the success of my campaign and then start writing about it. Where will they see it? In Iowa or Michigan or wherever the first state is, where all the people are coming out. Yeah. Or when I'm sending out,

yeah, I mean, we're not going to not be on Twitter. I would just rather have a robust TikTok presence to reach voters. first, then we can tweet out our massive TikTok TikTok following numbers. And you think that is it just because Instagram has a bigger user base than TikTok that you would rank Instagram?

Oh, no, because you put TikTok before Instagram. Yes, yes. And I would pick TikTok over Instagram. Now, why did you do that if Instagram has a bigger, like bigger reach? Great question, John. Because, one, TikTok sets culture in a way

that Instagram does not, right? As someone who is mostly abandoned TikTok for, and Instagram rails for my short-term memory. But the one thing you know is that whatever is cool on TikTok shows up on Instagram, like three weeks later. It's just as more culturally relevant. It reaches more

young people. It's a cultural driver of what's happening to the way Instagram is less so. Dan, what I'm hearing from you is you are an admirer of Zoran Mondani's campaign. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's actually the one of like that is like when you talk about like how you build

your campaign and then you get the elites last. That is an example of that works. AOC is another example of how that works. Bernie, frankly, in 2016, there's another example how that works in a very different media environment. All right, so, Dan, what do you have number four? What's left on the... Sub-sex Twitter is one combined, right? Mm-hmm.

Sub-sac Twitter, probably. John? Did I do... I would do... Did I do Instagram? You haven't done Instagram. You've not done Instagram. Instagram. Instagram. Well, no. Facebook Instagram. I did TikTok. Yeah. Did you TikTok? Yeah. TikTok was three.

Yeah. Now, and then Facebook, Instagram is four. Yeah. So you guys both... have TV news in digital slash linear advertising, paid advertising as your five and six here? Yeah, my six is TV news. I mean, like, I wouldn't even, I'd cross it off the list. No, I would pick a robust early state billboard presence over dominance of TV news.

I would love to have some, like, people who are working in Democratic politics right now do this, because how much you want about the digital and linear paid would be further up the list than where we put in it? Are they, depends on what part of the industry they work in? Do they make money off? Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's just making money,

but some of the people who work in politics genuinely believe that like digital and linear paid are sort of underestimated by, you know, the pundit class and everyone else who doesn't work in democratic politics. I fundamentally disagree with that. Me too. Me too. And just,

I think the way to, here's what I'm thinking about is if you are 40 years old, your entire life has been a, about skipping ads, right, skipping them on your DVR, just ignoring the digital ads that pop up at you on Facebook when you were a kid, just skipping right past them on Instagram stories or TikTok. And you just are culturally attuned to believe, to not believe a advertisement paid for by the people who want you to vote for the person or buy the product. And that is like, and it's also almost impossible to reach people under 40 with paid television ads because they are,

other than, like, major sporting events and award shows, they, you can't run political ads on TikTok. You can't run political ads on Netflix, the two biggest platforms people spend their most time. And, or also on YouTube, people are constantly skipping that, that ad at the beginning of it. And so you have everyone under 40 doesn't either doesn't get or doesn't believe in ads.

And next election is to be 45. Election after that is to be everyone under 50. It's everyone. It's just you're just reaching a, you cannot reach young people, with linear television ads. You cannot find a less efficient way to spend money right now.

That's our show for today. If you like what you just heard, please consider subscribing on the platform that makes the most sense for you. Cricket.com slash friends to learn more. Hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend. Dan and I will be back with a new show on Friday. Hi, everyone.

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