Podcast: The Ride - Shroud of Turin: An Immersive Experience with Eva Anderson

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

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Forever. Warning, the following podcast may contain delicious floor food, ancient elevators, Bible verses specifically for teens, and the many faces of Jesus Christ. All that, plus we head down to an Orange County church with Eva Anderson to experience something called the Shrout of Turin, an immersive experience. Pray for us. It's podcast, The Ride. The Easter weekend, but not so happy, good Friday, the saddest day of the year. To you, the podcast, the ride congregation.

I'm the Reverend Scott T. Gardner, joined by Father Michael Carlson. Hello, my, I was going to say pupils, that's not right. Well, a priest could say that. I could say hello my disciples. Thank you for helping. Yeah. Yeah, we are not joined by friar Jason Sheridan. even though he's not here

I had to say he seems like a friar right wouldn't you agree? Yeah. I mean, yeah. I'm just picturing the cartoon Robin Hood friar tuck. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, that's, I mean, you know that's, okay, that was obvious, all right. Yeah, yeah. I could see him wearing a big, like, is that a robe? Is that a... I want him to be a monk doing

in like an illuminated manuscript or the gold in like in a library. Yeah, that's good. It takes like 50 years to complete but then it's like a masterpiece. which what would he do a gold leaf study what would he devote his life to casting in gold um those new uncrustibles

that have protein powder listing listing out all of the health benefits of protein uncrustables yes influted script with gold leaf he could write out every ingredient that's what would take all 50 years yeah You got to document that. Hey, you know, I said that it's all solemn. And look, it is for some reasons, but not all because we are very happy to be. Basically, today we are talking about something called the Shroud of Turin, an immersive experience. And when the word immersive is in play, there's one person who you have to call. Returning to our show with a pretty spectacular new credit, the executive producer of the new star-studded Apple TV series, Margot's got money troubles, which premieres April 15th.

Eva Anderson. Hey, guys. Oh my God. It opens in a week. Okay, the show. The show is about to drop. So please watch it on Apple TV Plus. Margot's Got Money Troubles.

Which you've been doing for a long time. This has been a long process of my job. Yes, indeed. But which is, which, you know, and we're rooting for the show. But then we also, though, would prefer if you were on the show, you were on our show, you know, once a month at least. So it has taken you away from that. But nonetheless, we are rooting for your series. Look, I'm just happy to be here.

And I'm also happy that as part of the filming of the series, I discovered a location that we went to in the recording of this episode. That's right. That's why you were aware of this. Yeah, you spent some time in Orange County in Fullerton specifically. Is that a spoiler to say? No, the show, the book, it's based on as well, Margo's Got Money Troubles takes place in Fullerton, California.

So we shot there multiple times for like a week at a time to do exteriors. And during that time, there's nowhere to stay in Fullerton. So we would stay in Buena Park. A few blocks from actually right next to the Korean mall, which is called The Source. I think so. Yeah, yeah. Super cool mall. Oh my God.

It's great. Yeah, yeah. And then. Is there a hotel in that? Is that where you work? No, it's next door. There's like just a big, huge, like kind of radisson sort. of thing.

Gotcha. Okay. And so all the crew all stayed there. Nobody at the Knott's Hotel where you get tucked in by Snoopy? I requested it from production. And they were like, they said they had actually looked into the Notts Hotel. Oh, really? But they were like, it just seemed kind of weird.

Oh, yeah. And I told them about the Snoopy tuck in. And they were like, well, that's, of course, you like that. I'm just glad that came up in official conversations. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I went through it with a line producerial level on a show. I went through it with the line producer, Caroline. You know, you can get tucked in my Snoopy.

You know, the restaurant's called Amber Waze. But anyway, we stayed there. So I was just on the Buena Park, the Bee Park stretch for a couple weeks. And loving, love in life. Honestly, it was great. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you found some odd stuff, which you were, because you were, you liked this steakhouse that's in Fullerton. The cellar.

To the cellar, which was designed by the designer of some of Pirates of the Caribbean. Yes, it's a fake rocks underground steakhouse in the middle of the plaza, which I, we just, we, we discussed maybe going to before we pivoted. Yes. But it's awesome. If you are in Fullerton, California, maybe to go to the Fender Guitar Museum, something like that, maybe to attend Fullerton College, maybe to go to the restaurant called Ruta Begores. It's root of baghors Yeah, which is a hippie restaurant Oh

That makes sense That's what like when my dad was like My dad's how he presented Health food to me As a child was very much That's all sprouts and root of Vegas Yeah This place is great

And I'm blinking on the name Of the narrator of the haunted mansion The Ghost toast? Yes Paul Freeze Oh no the other guy Who announced the opening of Disneyland Oh Thorough Ravens

Yes. In the bathroom, there's a huge mural that says Thirl Ravenscroft lived in Fullerton. Wow. Oh, really? Oh, amazing. In the bathroom, yeah. Like over the toilet? Oh, no, just on the wall. While you're sitting on the toilet.

But it's sweet. He's like, yeah. That's a strange thing to say in a strange place. Because they call it the voice of Tony the Tiger. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thrill of Ravenscroft, the voice of Tony the Tiger is from Fullerton, California.

Hmm. Well, they don't say it in the regular restaurant? No. It's just in the bathroom. The restaurant's full of mural. Okay. So it wouldn't be appropriate. It's a really cool, like teapots and murals. Wow.

Guys, if you're in Florida, in California, the best place probably to go is Ruda Big Orr's, followed by the seller. Okay, okay. Runa Big Ours first, if you're prioritizing. I'm a big fan of this weird little strange town. Yeah, yeah, this is exciting. You got that, that's an ideal idea.

I really want to get sent somewhere for a show or a longer project, but you expect that to be like Vancouver or Toronto. So what a nice thing that you were only like slightly far away. Exactly. I'm just happy that we got to do. like a brief excursion with you down to some odd parts of Orange County. Yeah.

Garden Grove in this case. If I could just weave a little narrative before we get into it. So this is basically, we're kind of bringing back here a semi-tradition that we've had on the show where on Easter week we have covered religious and we'll just say mainly Christian-themed experience

on this, the saddest day of the year, at least according to my people, parents that I was required on Good Friday the day that Jesus was crucified to be sad from the hours 12 to 3. I've recounted before how that that exact window of time was when the mail would come and that's when I would get a new entertainment weekly. And it was incredibly frustrating to me to not be able to go access the entertainment weekly. I was thinking about on the way over, I like the sacrifice that took from me every year that I had to do. I don't feel like I sacrificed day to day for my children to the level that drove me as crazy is not being able to read the new

entertainment weekly because of Christ. You couldn't even read it. It wasn't like you could just read it but not enjoy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But only read, like, you have to read the sad parts first. You have to go to the obituaries. You have to read about movies that underperforms. Right.

Like the few times in my life where I've been like, I just have to sit in this negative emotion and feel it. I can count them on one hand. And it's not been for that many hours. And it was because of something real happening. Yeah, like a true thing to people you know or something. Yeah, or a relationship. You're just like, I have to just sit here and just feel this, feel bad.

And it's never been because of a man that I never met. The events of nearly 2,000 years ago. And that's a lot of hours, Scott. Thank you for seeing this recognizing. this. I feel like you both got some small windows into the childhood, or mainly I would say where it really got tough was

like that era, middle school teen year. It was like tough to have to deal with and have periods of morning like that. And we were, at the place that we went, we ended up going into a gift shop that had windows into exactly my childhood stuff that freaked me out so much. I was kind of like, I can laugh and take pictures

a little bit, but I think I got to get out of here. This is opening up old wounds. It was sucking you back in. You're like, oh, I'm also drawn to it. Maybe I like this sad. Maybe I want to be this sad. I wasn't sad enough for the middle 20 minutes of the movie. So I don't know, in a way, I guess like as far as I'm glad that we've done this series.

And if you can imagine this was my idea when we were doing it because I feel like I have some skin in the game. It's like made me have to reflect on experiences that I've had in my upbringing. But we sort of stopped doing it. The tradition kind of went by the wayside. We haven't done it for three years. because frankly we've kind of run out of compelling Christian topics. But today, an Easter miracle

on the third year, it rose again in fulfillment of the scriptures. And we're here to talk about the Shroud of Turin experience. Just with other, just to check in, because when we've done this series in the past, then we've like, you know, these kind of odd places that we've identified,

we've checked in with like, how are they doing these days? And the answer is always not very good. Yeah. One thing we talked about was the Holy Land, experience in Orlando that closed many years ago. It's become a hospital. The Ark Encounter, one of the most unpleasant things we've ever talked about on the show,

a recreation of Noah's Ark, was at the top of the year, host to a measles outbreak to an unvaccinated visitor. I laughed like, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. I was just, like, shocked. It wasn't me like, ha, ha, ha, measles. Yes, measles are, yes. Well, I mean, like, yeah, a measles outbreak at the Ark encounter. We are living in RFK Jr.'s fantasy.

It's become real. So many animals for me to eat. The animals have measles. It makes their flesh more delicious. Their livers are even tastier than usual. And then just a recent one, this is very obscure. You've had to have been listening years ago to remember this, but like, or just, actually, I wonder if you've ever noticed this in Orange County

that there was this there used to be this palatial building that was the headquarters of TBN, the Trinity Broadcasting Network. This is in Costa Mesa, this insane ornate building. I saw it in an article referred to as Orange County's biggest eyesore

and this was a place that I went to attend a taping of the show Praise the Lord, their flagship show where I got to see Hammer with my very eyes and a very small recording studio, Tia and Tamara Maori as well. But this was like a staple of the 405 freeway.

You're driving along the 405 Orange County. You see this insane palace. I think they used to host some kind of VR experience of some kind. They had a dark ride, Scott. It was a ride? Really? I and two of my friends, after we read about it in the LA Times, showed up, incredibly stoned, wearing beanies and hoodies and asked to go on the ride.

At what age? Wow. College. Wow. Oh, great. right is closed. Forever? We were like, no.

They're just like, it's, that day. It was for us. It was close for us. Oh, the rules changed. And we sat. And we were like, where would be open? And they were like, later. And we just, we sat down and kind of waited.

Wow. And they just, we just kind of, they just kind of stared at us. And eventually we just went back to L.A. Follow-up question. Did they let other people in? One more, one more follow-up question. Were there any other people to be let in? No.

Okay. So luckily that awkward situation didn't come to pass. But what they had sounded like a dark ride that ended with the, like the crucifixion. Oh, man. It's not far from what we're talking about here. That's why we just got the car and drove for so long as four of us. Do you think if you present it as more traditionally, like church going, they would have said yes? Yeah, what were we thinking?

Yeah. Trad it up a little bit. Yeah. Put some vizine in those eyes. I mean, we were wearing wrestling shirts to this experience, and we weren't really presenting, but we were, we at least have gray hairs. You were wearing a wrestling shirt to this experience. Yes. But they let us in.

A wrestling shirt from your show. A wrestling shirt of Nick Offerman's in world, a wrestling character jinx. But it didn't say like, Degeneration X suck it or anything. That was the case. Yeah. It didn't have Tasmanian devil on it. Yeah. Well, anyways, I'm glad I brought this up, and you have some experience there, although not.

enough since they didn't let you in. We need to find this article. You need to go deeper into what this ride was. Yeah, I'd love to know. Oh, my God. Well, and maybe that's the thing to talk about next year if this tradition is back. But here, this is less than two weeks ago. Here's what happened to this building.

Destroyed. Wow. Fucked apart. Completely. Like the picture I'm showing them, you can still tell it's a palace. Yeah. But it's, yeah, it's been gutted. Looks like a certain wing of the White House in fact.

Or like a war zone. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Wow. They had an opportunity to do like a false flag thing here and they didn't take it. So Trinity is just dead. I think so. And they haven't,

the building has not been open for many years, but this is the official. It's now smashed apart so they can build boring apartment buildings. When TV existed, Trinity was such a big deal. It was on. Right. Well, obviously it was on all the time. It was a channel.

But I put it on a lot. I was always, I remember the, that was the home of the Crouches. Paul and Jan, I want to say. And Jan was, you know, when you think, all right, religious lady, televangelist lady with giant weird hair, you go, Tammy Fit Baker? Yes, but another one, Jan Crouch.

She had kind of like lavender hair that was equally insane. And yeah, the two of them were on all the time. I think I was hoping to see them when we went to the live thing, but it was like a, it was a sitcom actor, I forget, and then, yeah, and Hammer was the guest.

Were you going as a child or going as like an adult? with knowledge. That was me at 13 and maybe so I knew that the show was like funny. Okay. And I wanted to see the crouches and laugh at them. But I also knew I could trick my mom into doing it as a, she would read it as a sincere religious experience.

Wow. What a sci-op. Yeah, yeah. And if somehow someone is listening to this who knows my mom, please don't recommend this episode. I was going to say, it's not behind a payroll. So it's a, like, it's a, oh, the crouches really look crazy.

Yeah. Can I see a picture? Yeah, here. Oh, yes, that lady with the cone. She was like with the helmet. When I think about Orange County personalities with incredible hair from the 90s, it's that lady and Wally George. Oh, yeah.

And that was like basically the entire. You know Wally George, right? I don't know a ton of Wally George, but like a kind of hot seat was the show. Yeah, he was a public access show. And we encountered him in college. basically they would show reruns over from the 80s and 90s, but he invented a lot of like kind of crazy, like what Jerry Springer became.

It was a crazy audience of like angry people going like, Wally, Wally. He had a beautiful head of blonde, silky hair. Very helmety, right? Like, real pasted on. He was revealed eventually, he would sit in front of an American flag and like a painting of John Wayne

with a bald eagle, and he would bring out sickos and purvey. and he would yell at them. And the audience who were also like conservative sickos and perverts were just like stand and be like, we'd be like, wah! And it would just, he'd bring out like just anybody,

it's the equivalent of like fresh and fit just yelling at Onlyfans models. But he was bringing up as like, this lady gives tattoos and I think she's a real freak. And then they come out and sit. Josh Fatim did a like onstage Wally George show at UCB for a long time. He did a really good.

And he'd plant the audience with Wally George like audience, would scream at him. But anyway. Have you ever seen Hannaby, his Donahue type thing? Oh, no. There's like a pile eating myth. Listeners and Eva, like, please look up Hanaby, Josh Fatim, the good friends in it, Ryan Perez,

Buzz Buzz. He's so funny. Oh, my God, this thing is so fucking funny and nobody knows. It's so hilarious. He gets the Donahue bizarreness so well. So I can only imagine Wally George. Speaking of the era in which I went to Trinity, being super stone discovering this show at like two in the morning, which was when they would.

would show it. Realizing we were watching something from the 80s, like on a random channel that like, who are these people? And then like there would be these cues that would come out when they'd bring people out. And so one time, like mid, like we were watching it for a couple weeks, just reruns. And he's like, I think you're, you're disgusting and you're like a prostitute to this woman. And she's like, how do you feel about your daughter, Rebecca D. Mornay, playing a prostitute in the

movie risky business. He's like, don't talk about my daughter. So that's how you find out that his daughter is Rebecca D. Mornay. Rebecca D. Mornay. Yes. The hand that rocks the cradle? That's her dad. Wow. He was the hand that rocked her cradle? The other really fantastic thing about Wally George, well, the best episode ever was when the band Gwar came on. And they said their entire thing was that they were like, they were in their suits and they just said they wanted to make crime a job. And then he got, he got so mad.

Because he was just ready to just fire. He would throw people off, but that was something. You just couldn't even get his head around. Yeah. These freaks want to make crime a job. Crime a job. It's a really good line. Well, here's what I'm fine.

I had vague memory of, look, I'm pretty obsessed with Alan Thick's talk show, Thick of the night, which I just love it aesthetically. I love the set. I love the music. I love the guests that he had, and there's only, like, ten clips of it on YouTube for some reason. And one of those is Wally George. And not only was he had Wally George on to, like, bring some of that, you know, a scandal and yelling at people into his kind of more state affair. I'm now finding that he would, like, play Wally George as a character.

Alan Thick as Wally. Oh, really? If you were a certain type, like, around a certain time, Wally George really did, like, he had Angeline on. He had, like, a bunch of L.A. figures on. I think I saw the Angeline clip last night, now that I'm thinking about it. Were you just doing an Angeline run? No, it's just my algorithm knows. Yeah.

It knows what I want. The weirdest thing about the late era Wally that I would watch on cable, on public access in, like, 2000, is that it was a Wally George clip show from the 80s, hosted by current Wally George, who was out of his daughtering and out of his mind. So it would be these clips of him, you know, screaming at, like, sick of. and perverts and then it would come back to me like welcome back to my show anyway we're sponsored by the tattoo parlor and the sex shop and if you want to go there they're fantastic they'd get a free copy of a book and he just like point down and there would be like the address and so he was just being sponsored by all the things he hated but he didn't hate them anymore or he was confused and it was like like all these like weird like degenerate businesses

bought time on the Wally George Recap show. And sometimes he just be like, Peter, is it time for? And he would just point down, meaning like the ad. Yeah, yeah. So you're bouncing,

you're unstuck in time with this man when you're watching the show. Wow, are these archived anywhere? I hope so. Some of the big ones I'm sure are, yeah. You know, I've never really gone down this rabbit hole. I mean, look, right away, like here's a random one.

Wally George versus Larry Rice, food fight and Elvis debate and then I'm looking at a guy with Elvis hair who looks exactly like your boy Jimmy Angel Yeah Oh yeah yeah This is way up I feel like I thought you would be like

Oh of course yes yes Wally George we're sick of it I mean no not even no yeah familiar with it's the perfect spot Familiar with but not sick of it Never done the dive There's always more Probably time to do it time for the listeners There is always more garbage

That's why we have to stay alive Yes I agree with you The main point of my life for sure Is making sure I find all the garbage There's more trash, and then there's more people to meet that know other trash that you don't know about. Exactly. It's beautiful. It's a nice, beautiful thing that happens when you meet a new person.

Do you know a bunch of trash that I don't know? You do? Wow. And there's a trash exchange. There's a trash exchange. That weirdly, despite it being full of the word trash, that made me feel very optimistic and happy about what it is to meet people and make me friends. That's what I feel. Because that word could have been poetry.

But it was the same thing. Yeah. Boy. God, that's it. Well, you know, also, as I've just quickly scanned Wally George's wiki, here you go. Like, boy, it's good this came up. It all makes sense because when he passed away in 2003, his memorial service was held at the place that we went for today's topic. Wow.

Perfect. The then-crystal cathedral, the now Christ Cathedral. So he really was. This guy is like a weird OC royalty. Oh, really important. Also, I was. aware when he passed away. Because I was very aware of him.

2003. And I think he died, if I'm not wrong, like he missed Arnold Schwarzenegger being elected governor of California by like one day. And I was, and I was like, oh, man. They both happened. And I was like, oh, man, that would have made him so happy. I felt really bad that he missed that.

That's what I don't know his leanings enough to know if you would hate or love that. He loves it because it's like chaos and like, I think it was more as like chaotic conservative strong man. Yeah, yeah. He would have loved Trump. Like he was just a, he was a proto everything. Oh, no.

We gotta stop this stuff. Like that was his entire thing. He didn't have any actual ideology except like, I hate it. No, down with this. No more of that. Calm down. No solutions. Just kind of like.

Just rage. I don't like that. Switch it. Switch it to what? I don't know. Who cares? There's a part in the Jimmy Angel show. where he says there's a lot going on in the world that I don't understand

and I don't want to understand it. It couldn't mean anything. Does he always say that? Yes, he says the same things in every show, basically. And that probably could have applied. He was doing that 40 years ago. He probably was talking about something in the 60s. He probably doesn't know who the president is.

I also pretty sure Vanilla Ice says that in his show. Oh, I'm sure. A familiar line. But does he still do the line when he's doing his show at Mar-a-Lago? Yeah, probably. Is that general enough that they don't get mad at? It is like that super non-specific Andy Daley stand-up too. Oh, I love it.

Yeah. Ben, what's his name? Who's just like, yeah. What else is going on? Kind of knock it off. Yeah. And by the way, your memory is astounding. That's right.

He died and two days later Arnold was elected. Wow. The fires were happening. Like a bunch of, like the area around L.A. was burning. There were mud slides. Wally George died. What going on. I was, I was working.

on Vivaam in Vegas and... Wow. I don't think I knew you did, though. Oh, yeah, and left and had to drive through, like, the fires to get home. Because that's why I was, like, all one weekend. And at the end of it, I found out that I had gotten hired on the job of my life to be an assistant on the 2006 Academy Awards opening film with Lily Crystal. No kidding. Wow, wow. That was that? Oh, my God. So it all, like, solidified into one, like,

moment where I was like, Wally is dead. Oh, oh, look, Arnold is mayor. The fires, the fires. I'm so tired. I'm going to work on the Billy Crystal. Return to the King opening film where he is. Return of the host. Return of the host.

All right. This is the thing that, boy, that's the episode that I wish that you, for various reasons, I feel like you can't go on record about your experiences working on return of the host. Return of the host. It is the ultimate, if someday, if I could make this possible. but I understand the reasons not to. Wow, what a weekend.

Okay, so this experience, wild that much things are tying together already. Religious O.C. What a world. And which I think has maybe been, it's seen more exciting days. What would TBN getting smashed down? So the fact that we found something that opened in only November 2025 is pretty wild.

And really quick, according to the LA Times article, they claim will be open through 2030. Wow. Geez, they're committed to at least that long. You have time. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yes. Get there.

And you can judge after everything we say if you want to do this. It's not like this is the most expensive thing to run, I have a feeling. No. And it's not like the technology will get outdated ever. What? It's not like this will feel like a PlayStation 1 thing at any point in the next. This is like aforementioned Pirates of the Caribbean. This is like, it'll like, no matter what,

a matter how technology changes, it's always going to be classic. Well, they made an artistic choice to keep it timeless. Yes, exactly. The artistic choice to make in 2025 that will make it last forever. The Shroud of Turin, an immersive experience. This is at, we'll get into it. This is at the Christ Cathedral, which is in Garden Grove.

I think we learned about this from an LA Times article, which we can get into, but maybe it's a good, this is a good opportunity. just right at the top to say anything that we knew before this about the shroud of Turin. Oh, well, I was vaguely aware that it was a Jesus thing. That's basically all I knew. You didn't know what it was specifically within that? I really didn't.

My religious schooling was not good. I did not really learn a lot, despite my mother insisting that we were God-fearing people. We did not go to church We never learned anything But sometimes you fear what you don't know I think you were Post or fearing people Yeah we had posters on the wall

Not of God Any other like of Aladdin You're scared of the poster No I know We were scared of any I was scared of that Austin Powers poster I had in 1997 Could suffocate me

His mouth lands right on you Yeah baby His crooked teeth suffocate you I don't know if my mom knows what the Shroth of Turin is. I have a feeling. It's possible to be kind of religious and not really not fully know because it's not something that you learn about in church per se. It's kind of like supplemental material. But what did you know about this coming in?

Well, just first off, everything I know about Jesus is mostly from the musical and Norman Jewison film, Jesus Christ Superstar, which I know that whole narrative and that movie is fantastic. It's filmed in the desert guys. go watch it right now. Everyone's got like really cool disco outfits with like really long fridge. Is that the, what's the scene stealing song?

Is it the, like the, like, the guys only got one song and it's like a big. Oh, oh, there's, oh, are you talking about, are you talking about, turn my water into wine, Herod's song? I think so. He's fun, he's like zero must all son. Yes, yeah.

But also like, yes. Which that is, because I, I seen that, that's a good, I mean, that's good in any production of it. and it's good in the movie. And I put together recently that that's the guy for that's the principal from Billy Madison. Yes. Oh, wow.

Who has the wrestling backstory. Oh, that's fun. It's a great. That's a great little comedy song. Yeah. But I just knew. All I knew is that it was touch Jesus and it had a face on it. Okay.

Yeah. That's about all I knew. I knew that it was, yeah, it's that it's an old cloth that has Jesus's image on it. And I think I remember my mom, explaining this to me. And I think I took it at the time to be, I knew that it had to do with the, with the crucifixion,

with what occurred today, nearly this very day, nearly 2,000 years ago. And I think I thought that like a woman offered him a cloth to wipe his sweat and blood, because I think that is part of this of the crucifixion story,

and that it left a perfect imprint of his face when he wiped himself with it. But in fact, I'd been wrong, I realized, So I learned things right away from this experience that it's the burial cloth. It was a full body. I didn't know there was a very long cloth folded over twice and what was laid on him in the tomb.

And that's, look, that's Friday. That's today. By Sunday, we know that the rock has moved and that he has come out of the tomb. So they went in to find this very cloth and there was nothing under it, but his image was on it due to, to blood and guts. So, you know, I did a lot of research after the fact about this. I watched a guy on Tucker Carlson

talk about it. I watched Mel Gibson on Joe Rogan talk about it. Oh, my God. You really did? The modern Wally George's. Yes, I watched some clips of the two things I just mentioned. I'm very proud of you for that. Thank you very much. It's not, the Mel Gibson on Joe Rogan is just, you've never seen a human being more possessed.

He's just like, well, well, you know, I don't know. Christ or? It's not unlike that South Park episode. So I learned that they would wrap people after they passed away like a pita, like a pita bread. Everyone was a pita pocket essentially. The corpse is human pita. So they'd like fold it over and this is the way Jesus was buried.

They weren't they weren't mummifying him or anything. This is just a cloth they would put over. I guess I said burial cloth and they aren't buried at that mode. You're like put in the tomb and you're just you're covered. It's the covering cloth. You're in the hot desert though. It's not like swampy. you probably dry out.

Yeah. Yeah, get all wet. So, yeah, yeah, it's just a piece of cloth. And this has existed and been preserved by, or at least this, look, this is this, this is a story that is presented, is that this, this cloth has been preserved by biblical scholars and scientists and passed down and it is in Turin, which is in Italy. Right. And this has been, just to be clear, Shrout of Turin and Immersive Experience does not have the

shroud of Turin. I guess I didn't expect it to. How could they? No, no. I would also like to introduce the fact that it wasn't like discovered, quote, unquote, until like the 13th century. Yeah, that's an interesting thing. It was an interesting little wrinkle in the story.

It took 300 years for them to find the trap. It took a while for this thing to pop up. Yeah, a cloth that was on the guy who's a center of a religion. Yeah. Just nobody, somebody had it. It was like a planet Hollywood. Like Arnold's Mr. Freeze suit, except instead of being put on display

eight months after the movie, it took thousands and thousands of years. I have a naked Sylvester Stallone in my attic. You have one of those? Yeah, yeah. Wait, how is this not? No, no, no, I'm just saying. I'm like, someone just mentions that.

You got me with that. You're looking for one of these? I was so excited by the possibility. Oh, if I did, no. But my husband will never let me do that. But I would say that after I talked to him about this experience, he said that he had read a book that there's, that says by a modern religious scholar who says there's just a lot of

there's a lot of evidence these days that someone just like went and got Jesus's body and moved it and that explains why it wasn't there yeah why it wasn't there oh that it was moved someone like when you discover how a magic trip was done that it was just that a person we're gonna move this somewhere else you know they're just like oh we got to put some cans over here or it's like we'd rather be somewhere else you know there's like different reasons like Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah. It's not a good place for somebody to stay forever. Exactly.

So maybe that explains everything. It's a decent explanation as opposed to the explanation which you get in this exhibit, which is that basically there was like a blinding light, that there was a flash. And that seemingly like the flash imprinted his image into the piece of cloth more, almost like a Xerox process. The flash was like the light of the nuclear bomb that burned people's silhouettes. onto walls. Oh, good. And it burned a silhouette of Jesus

perfectly onto the cloth. So it was like, okay, it had the real effects that a horrible nuclear blast would have, but contained within an old tomb. Luckily, it didn't affect anyone else. And the light isn't a nuclear blast. It's just God.

That's just the light of God. Yes. It's just God going, but the light of God does leave marks. The light of God does have photographic qualities. So, yeah. You can make out cheekbones and chin and hair.

Yeah. I does feel like it's like the Hulk turning into the Hulk or something. Like the gamma rays like just so strong that like it left an impression on this piece of cloth or something. It's very, it feels very superheroy to me that the energy residue would be on there instead of just him transporting away. And if you've got a problem with that. Go fuck yourself. Or go talk. Go talk to Sturp. Go talk to Sturp.

Go talk to. Or any of the nice people we talk to at the. After part. Father Robert Spitzer. Father Robert Spitzer is the one who's really doing the photographic nuclear light theory. Yes, yeah, yeah. Well, so all told, like, you know, here's how this thing has existed in the world is that, yes, Mike, you're correct, that in the 1300s, this thing starts getting displayed and, like, look at some miracle Christ's images on it. People have questioned the validity of it and all this time.

And in the questioning, people have scientifically explored, well, like, if we date it and if we feel. find like, look, we found pollen and the fibers that is from Jerusalem and this proves the validity of it. So it's kind of existed between like a miracle item, don't pick it apart, and then scientists trying to like

prove it once and for all that it is found. Yes, and I didn't realize, I didn't realize this aspect of it until we saw this, or we experienced this experience. It was a full experience. It was going to be like Fox's like alien autopsy. Yeah. Like that's how it felt to me. I didn't realize

they were going to like kind of sweatily try to prove that this thing is real. I thought we were just going to see a cool thing. The cool thing that Jesus had and they were going to show us something like magical about it. Jesus is cape. But when you read about it, it's like, oh, this has always been around for you to go, well, see, this is, the whole thing is real. You think the Jesus thing isn't real. There's a fucking cloth here. It's got his face on it.

It's got his face on it. And it looks like it. It looks like the face you know. And it proves not only his existence, but also that the miracle. The whole thing is real. The whole thing happens. So some people, yeah, to some people, this is just like, and to give my mom credit, it was always presented as like, oh, yeah, there's this thing.

I don't think she ever presented it as like, and that is the proof that it's all. So I think there's scales of how much the shroud is important to you and how much it kind of hangs off the shroud. Yeah. So I guess this maybe takes us to this exhibit, to the thing that we, I think we learned about from the LA Times. And it's pretty new, so we're aware of it. We've been meaning to go down. I think all I knew is that it involved immersive video. Now, there's an important other detail, but I'm going to save that that's in the headline of the LA Times article.

Which is what drew us to the experience. Well, that's, I missed that. If I saw it then, I forgot about it by the time we went. And it's a pretty important, all-encompassing detail. But on the way down, I had forgotten about this. So all I knew is that we were going to Christ Cathedral. and that's 10 minutes from Disneyland. And boy, the feeling of heading south on the five freeway,

seeing the sign Disneyland next right, not getting off there, going past it to Chapman Avenue to go to a cathedral. So this is, but not just any cathedral, because this is like not only do they have a cultural center with a themed experience, these grounds were, bonkers, right?

I think we're all, yeah, this is like it's a really impressive and nice, relaxing place to be. This is like a resort, this campus. It is, and all those things are true, but it also, to me, feels like some sort of super villain base. Yeah.

Especially, like, the main building, which is just very crazy and impressive. And I guess I've seen it from afar, but I've never been, like, it's really... Yes, there's like, there's one big spire tower that you can see from the freeway. And if you've been around there, maybe you've seen it.

I've been on the, the side streets and passed by the lower but still very like weird and austere cathedral itself which is formerly known as the crystal cathedral i'll get into that but since you brought it up might be the evil feeling of it the building that we went to for the exhibit the richard h pickup cultural center um i saw it uh on their website they said that it was used as starfleet command in the 2013 film star trek into darkness oh right yeah that makes a lot of sense Is that an evil place or a good place? That's a good place.

Oh, it's a good place. I was also told when I posted about it by the DP of Barry, Carl Hersey, that it was used as for the final shootout in Barry. Really? Oh, wow. Oh, crazy. I got to look that up. Okay.

Interesting. The thing I also thought about is that there was that concept art for the never built Tomorrowland, the Lucasport. Yeah. And boy, does it seem like the same type of place? Indoor, atrium, glass. Glass. Lucasport.

Yeah, yeah, you ever heard that one? What? We love Lucasport. We really wish it would have been Lucasport. It would have been a subdivision of Tomorrowland, Lucasport. Lucasport. Lucasport and our new land, Lucasport. Disneyland, Lucasport.

It's very clean when you think about it that way. So this campus, as I said, formerly known as the Crystal Cathedral, is part of a, it was an outgrowth of a congregation that was founded in 1955. same year as Disneyland at the Orange, the city of Orange Drive-in, this guy Robert Schuller had a Sunday Mass where he stood on top of the snack bar

and cars pulled up and it was an entirely drive-in mass, which got a lot of people just due to the kind of the novelty of it and he got pressed from that and kind of like got notoriety from that. This caused the congregation to grow and grow to the point where they needed this property and they bought 34 acres.

And so that's how big that land was that we were on. That's half of California adventure. That's how much that campus is. Geez. Wild. Sorry, can I just say, I would pay, I would just go just to watch him climb on top of the snack bar. Yeah.

Does he use that if he does have a ladder? Like, that's really funny. And is he doing it in the priest? Is he have to jump and hold and that kind of slide up and slide his leg up? Yeah. Like roll. And does he keep it, does he do it on the side where people can see, or is it an embarrassing clunky process so he does it on the back so that nobody sees the- Does he put his foot up on like where the cashier takes the money and like super high and then like use that to get up?

Or does he just kind of jump? Yeah. Well, is it suction cups? Is there glass? Because if it's like a glass one, you got to really be careful. Yeah, yeah. Because I always think of the display case. He probably has a ladder, but it's like they would just be more funny if he just had to get up a different wage time.

I wonder if there's a, okay, well, look, here he is on top doing it, like here he is, like, testifying, and there's a bunch of cards, but that doesn't answer a lot of questions about the sides of the bill. Yeah, that's really high. Yeah.

He does have a belly on him, which makes the getting up funnier. The belly would kind of... Yeah, that's to the pose that he's in where he's raising his hand aloft. That's like if he was halfway up climbing a ladder. Yeah. So you're right, it is pretty funny-looking.

Because, like, it could be, you're like a cross-fit type guy who's like, does his perfect, like, no hands jump up. I'm imagining him, though, kind of, like, swinging his legs up sideways and then kind of, like, once people are, like, rock climbing on a wall, like, I'm doing that up the side of the side of the park. Parkuring. I'm picturing him just, like, kind of, like, rolling up onto it and then standing.

I mean, I'm, I think we had a ramp and he was able to do that. Ramp. Could be ramp. Yeah, yeah. But also, did they try to, like, did they do, or did they send him in through, we haven't talked about through the middle of the, um, of the, um, the, um, the, thing itself, and were they able to, like, pop them up the way a concert performer pops up up from the bottom.

Because you could kind of make it look like the first miracle of the day. If you could get, like, the local male cheerleaders involved, they could lift him up. Lift him up on each side of them or in the middle, I mean. Don't speak a word of this. We have to, but they must think that it's God. Do they do theatrics at this church? Like, do they have, like, anyone preaching that, like, does the, like, pink, the artist pink wirework during a con? Is there any crazy thing that happens?

Because you see Mega Church have, like, big budgets for things. And I just wonder if that's this type of place. The real answer is that I think by the time, so that gets us up to the 70s. And here he is in a row. He's on top of the thing. So they're still doing driving mass. He's getting older. You can tell he's got kind of that televangelist pompadour.

Is that the new property at that point? He's not on the snack bar? I think it is. I think it's maybe that's not snack bar. That's another elevated platform. That's a good catch. No, he has just a platform. And they started doing it again during coronavirus.

This was a, he was a pioneer. He predicted the pandemic. But, so yeah, I think people were driving up. But then they started building buildings, and he wanted them to be, like, very grand. And he, like Michael Eisner, was affectionate to architects. And he got, like, very storied architects to build, mainly the thing, the centerpiece, the Crystal Cathedral.

Now, Mike, to your question, I don't think there was wirework and insanity. But, and I, A, I wonder. if there is wirework in any megachurches because I feel like yes. Has to be. Somewhere at some point in all the megachurches there are. So fun.

Yeah, yeah. I hope so. There's a place in Schaumburg that has stuff like that too. Well, they do a pageant, like a mega pageant at Christmas. They have all sorts of stuff. Yeah. Like Santa's sleigh sometimes will be like Aladdin's carpet or something like in the California Venture show.

Geez. I mean, that'd be fun to see for sure. But I do think that for 1980 when the thing was finished that the Crystal Cathedral was like pretty, top of the line, like as spectacular made for television as a cathedral it ever bit. Like one of the first megachurches, it had

the fifth largest pipe organ in the world, I guess still does. There was a, this guy was very famous because he then, once the Crystal Cathedral was built, had a show called Hour of Power. Oh, yeah. This was probably pre-TBN kind of like the main big

religious show. There's photos of him with every president of his era, left or right. Here he is holding hands with George W. Bush. When he died, the Clinton's issue to stay. I guess the story is that he really helped the Clintons through the Lewinsky affair scandal.

It sounds like he was never laid low by his own scandal. What was his scandal? No, I'm saying. You know what? I didn't really see one. They usually do. I feel like they all do. But if he avoided that.

That's like all the famous ones of the era. That boy was at a time for every single one of them to have a giant scandal. Yeah, so he made it through. He made it through all these administrations, passed the way and was buried on that campus. So people are buried where we were. And we had the question, those ghosts, his ghost wants the crystal cathedral, yes.

The ghost climbs up onto a snack bar. It floats up. Yeah. And, okay, to go back to something that was said a little bit ago about the seller restaurant, I was, while we were there, I was questioning, is this, the place that was frequented by

and like the very devoted to home church of Thurl Ravenscroft famous Disney voice. You guys, he's buried there. Whoa! We could have seen Thurl Ravenscroft's grave if we knew where the cemetery part was.

His ghost was there too. Who is was wandering around. Yeah, yeah. And that well, that's the ghost you want. If you, if that's that kind of where you get inhabited by the ghost and then get to talk like him. Yeah. Oh, so fun.

To bellow as he bellows. He didn't have a scandal, did he? I don't think so. He seems like a very nice man. So it's funny you were saying this stuff about, I didn't realize there was the thing about him in Fullerton, but in looking up articles about him in the church, I saw that he was at church every week.

He sang there. Oh. Well, wait a minute. Wait, and I forgot. Yep. Yeah, the organ wasn't the only pipes at this place. Here you go. This is from Hour of Power in 1981, the Roller

There's no mountain too high to climb. No river too deep to for. Oh. No. Oh, yeah. Yes. Oh, yeah. Very devout Tony the Tiger.

In a church. I mean, how cool is, like, I'd go to that church if I could hear that voice. That's my favorite voice. Any of the classic voice actors. Yeah. You went to a church to see Hammer. Yeah, you're right. Yes.

I did a bonus church that was not on a Sunday. because I wanted to see Hammer. I forget if he wrapped or danced or anything. I think maybe he just talked, but that was cool too. Yeah. But anyway, but he also, yeah, apparently he, the last years of his life were at like a big sprawling retirement community in Fullerton where he rode around in a scooter that had a little stuffed Tony the Tiger on it.

In case you're wondering. Yes. My voice sounds familiar. Okay. Also buried at that same, in that same area. This was a mind blow to me. Marie Callender. Really?

Yes. Whoa. She could have visited Marie Callender. She's real? Yeah, I don't think I'd ever thought about. Was Marie Callender a person? I didn't know. Is Marie Callender all across the country?

Does everyone know Marie Callender? I didn't know it before I moved out here. Okay. Definitely the frozen food is more widely. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Good point. Yes, yeah.

They closed a lot of them. Or all of them here? I had that question. There's one in orange, which may have been the original. And there's a few. They're all like Orange County or Inland Empire. Yeah, there's a weird one in the South Bay I've seen that's in a strip mall that's mostly like a takeout. That Wilshire one was beautiful.

It was so cool. And they closed it. The Wilshire one? There was one on Wilshire right by the Sag Building. Yeah, isn't it like an alley grill or something? It's like daily grill or something. But that is an amazing, like, like fixtures in the ceiling. And it's like for some reason way fancier than a Marie calendars is usually.

Really, really? I remember always liking them aesthetically. That was like a go-to. If we're having pie, it's from Marie Callenders. Can you go to Marie Calenders and get the pie? It'll be very nice. We had a place called Baker Square. Oh, we had that too.

There was one very close to Disneyland, I remember, that I also, that I liked aesthetic. Yeah, that was our pie place. That's a good pie place. Yeah. Do people still, this is the thing my parents say, like, where do you go for pies? Where's the pie place now? House of pies. House of pies.

But what are my parents supposed to do? Yeah, that's not. That's a long drive. Mom's not going to go to House of Pies. That's true. It's not fancy. It seems like Coco's is in rough shape. Yes.

I don't know what you do. Or what's the other one that's closed in Glendale but is in Orange County, is in Anaheim. Why can't I think of the name? It's right when you get off the five. Caros. Not, no. No, all these exist and the doughboys hate them all. I like this place, but it closed in Glendale.

It was right over by the party city in Glendale, and I can't think of the name of it. Oh, yes. Why can't I think of the name of this place? It looks like a little French place. Yes. You mean Mis? Me Mis, thank you. Oh, yes.

That was a pie. That was pie. Oh, that was a pie place. You could do pie. That could be a pie place. Yeah. Listener, what's your pie place? Yeah, let us know what your pie place is.

And if you're in the Pally, my parents could use a new pie place. Jason Sheridan's tummy is rumbling right now. That's all I know. They need me. Republic of Pie in North Hollywood. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. Sure, sure. Yeah, that's not that far. Anyways, so star studded cemetery at this place. Also, Robert Schuller, this guy presided over Wally George's funeral. It's really all coming together. So this is all just to lay the foundation of where we were, the history of this place already.

The place went bankrupt. I don't think I realized the churches could go bankrupt, but I guess it makes sense. It became a different diocese, the Roman Catholic diocese of Orange. They renamed it the Christ Cathedral because I think maybe this place has always had a target on its back a little bit for being like gaudy, for being like a little much for a church. It seems like plenty of. So was evangelical and it got bought by Catholics? I think it, I'm not sure. Yeah, I don't know what it was to begin with.

Maybe it was more evangelical. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, and it's now Catholic. I know you could do that. Yeah, I don't think I knew. Yeah, that you could transfer. It was extremely, because sometimes they hate each other.

Yeah, yeah, right. Yes. But it was a very Catholic gift shop we went to. Yes, definitely. How do you get the evangelical out of the walls, though? You know what I mean? Like, if you're a Catholic and you're going in there, you would feel like you would have to like cleanse it, right?

But every cathedral in Europe is. Goddy. Yeah, of course. Yeah, the whole the genre is just Goddian in general. Nothing is as classy as the Marie Callender's on Wilshire. Exactly. Everything else is Goddy by comparison. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, that's my. Lucasport would have been mine. But what was I going to say? Oh, well, yeah, I mean, what's weird about

like the ownership changes is that now these good people like Thoroughravenscroft and Marie Callender who like worshipped at this church and what I would like live in eternity at this church. It changed. That's not their church anymore. And when the place got bought, they even said,

we're going to get rid of the cemetery and build apartments here. So people who were planned to be buried there were like, not anymore. I'm getting out of there, including the crouches, the TBN crouches. Wow.

They had like they had deals to be buried at this place and then didn't get to because, yeah, they don't want to be buried no stinking Catholic cemetery. Is there an apartment? complex on top of Wally George's body?

I'm not, no, Wally George, the, said that the service was there, but he's at Forest Lawn. Okay, okay. So he's fine. Don't worry.

Wally George is great. It's not a poltergeist situation. It's not a, like, Oh, Thoreau, Ravenscroft, Marie Callender, Poulter guys. Right, you build on top of Thirl and Mary on top of them and they end up haunting

and sucking the building into some sort of hellish vortex. A pie vortex. A pie vortex. A frosted flake pie. It's turned into a big frosted flake pie. Yeah. That's not what's happening. We should be clear about it. That's definitely not happening. You can live there. You can't eat it. I don't know if they ever built them. I mean, I guess because these place that you, you know, these people are still very legal, right?

Yeah. To do a pie vortex? Well, to do a pie vortex for sure. Jason knows that's illegal. He's tried. He's tried. One of Wally George's plates. Sick. Sickening. Want to build a bivorex. Freaks. Anyway, so this, just this campus has so much

interesting history. So it's already like kind of a it's an odd, it's a perfect you know, megachurch campus to be near Disneyland. Yeah. And, but I don't think they've, I think since the Catholic ownership took over, I don't think they've stepped it up. So the fact that they have announced a new like, themed

experience, immersive video experience, great. This is like, there's a huge boon to them. So we drove down there. In the tickets, it said, like, there was the little warning of get there on time. You should be there on time. I even told you guys,

we tried to be there 15 early. Then I misjudged traffic. I was there just with, like, probably a little bit late too, and I had the bees, so I went to it. So I was taking my time, because here, like, Mike, we've done a lot of things like this,

but even, too. Like, the thing, I was flashing to, like, the Titanic experience with John and Marissa. I'm like, it's like, don't be late. It must be there. In fact, get there 15 early. I think we all had the exact same idea of what we were walking into, which was going to be a museum.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's arbitrary and we're like, we're going to get like that Titanic thing. Fucking, then nobody's there. Our entry time. This is fine. Shut up. It's fine. So I didn't feel any particular rush or guilt when I walked up and met you guys.

And we talked for a while. Yeah, we still were shooting the shit. Up the stairs. Yeah, yeah. We took our time. We caught up a little bit. Then we got on the elevator that looks like good to stop. own tomb.

That locked you into a tomb. So funny. They put like a wrap on the inside and outside of the elevator. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was not fake rock. It was just a wrap. We were entombed in the elevator.

Where it said the phrase, who is the man of the shroud? Mike said, I think I have a guess. Yeah. I didn't think there was a question of who the man was. I didn't think so either, but that also was like, oh, maybe that's what we're going to like, they're going to like show us the investigation of who the suspects are. Yeah, like that was not what it was.

Nope. They were just trying to hype us up for Jesus. Yeah, yeah. They wanted people to, they wanted people to feel smart in the elevator, I think. Yeah. I want people go, well, I know, I know. I know it is. I'm going to be way out of this entire thing.

So we get up there and they are not, they, they sign us in at a leisurely place, but they do say, oh, you are a little bit late though, so let's get you in there. Yeah. And then we're ushered past a pre-show. I'm a media, it's in a little, fake city and I'm like oh shit we're missing a pre-show and it's my fault fuck then we're then a door opens and we're just immediately in it and as opposed to the this experience where they hyped it up too much and then fucking nobody's there and you can be as late as you want it is so evident that we

are late there are three chairs only that are empty it's already in motion people are watching a bit it's a solemn thing they're learning about serious things and then we have to like oh sorry excuse me excuse me sorry so I apologize to you guys for that because that's my fuck we all were on the same we weren't like let's get in there right like we were like we're like we walked through the city and we were like what was this he's like that was the introduction there was the prolog and I was like the prolog because it was like a little city that had screens like on the walls yeah windows I know whatever that was and I missed that I wanted to see that go back I guess we got to go back and do the whole thing again

And see the graves. Oh, yeah. And see the graves. Marie calendar. Anyways, so we're off on a weird foot, I would say, and just kind of thrust into it without a lot of lead in. And believe it or not, the three of us, I'm sure, are bringing in a different energy than the other people in the room. Yes. Not that we were like being loud or anything.

I just could. I don't know if I'm being self-conscious, but I'm just like, oh, everyone's in here and they like this. I got tapped to be like, stop it within one. minute. Did you really? You didn't tell us that? I was filming. Oh, oh. Well, this was a question I had because we were late the first thing I wanted to do

was to film it, A, because some of it was if you can imagine, a little weird. We wanted to share it with the audience, but B, it's the only way I'm going to remember anything that happened because I don't mind it. Unless I got to take notes or something. So I want to record some of it, but I can tell nobody else is. So I'm like, did they get the warn? There must have been

a warning to not. So then I'm really self-conscious about filming. And that's a lot of this. is faded from my memory already. I'm sorry to say. So you were filming. I was filming and an old man tapped me and was like, don't do that. Another one, a person who was enjoying

not a worker. An old man. Just a guy there who, I will say later, one of the best parts of the show tapped me to point to be like, check it out. So he did it twice.

Once you like, don't film and then once he be like, hey, hey, hey, check it out. Is he doing it before maybe? It seemed like he'd been there before. It was the last supper part where he tapped me. Well, we were all tapping each other in the last supper.

Oh, on the ground. Yeah, he was making sure I wasn't missing it. Right, right, right. And I was like, he's like, tap, tap, tap, tap. Check it out. I can't wait to talk about it. That's his favorite part probably. Yeah, yeah, he was so excited.

So he wasn't mad at me. He was just like, who's just being like manners? Just showing you the ropes. Yeah, well, I feel very bad. But I, but still, I'm trying to take in what I can. The immediate thing to notice is that so it's all, it's, in that room, there are 26 swivel chairs. And I don't mean swivel chair like a desk.

chair they're planted in the ground and it's kind of fun right like they just like like like perfectly still base and then you just get to spin yeah there's video all around you right and you don't know since there's video all around you everyone can choose your own adventure yeah so sometimes you end up like just staring at a stranger because you both you've made the opposite choice that they have turn right into their eyes right so it's not yeah so that happened a lot or you're like oh I'm not look in this person. Okay, let me turn, pivot a little bit to look at something else. Because there's just, they don't really direct

you, I mean, sometimes they direct you what to look at, but there's so much detail. You don't need, you have to go back again to see the whole thing. It's so detailed. There's so many details. There's so many beautiful details. Every bit of it is like you're there. It was like you were there. Yeah, well, and also just the

immersiveness of it. There's projectors up on the ceiling and there, and every inch of the room is covered in video, including the door that you walk in because this is not a smooth sphere type atmosphere where it's like perfectly rounded it it is just a room and my theory is it's a room

that existed there already there's electrical boxes that are getting projected on yeah this is a conference room right like yeah you're right this is where the board of directors met the wall's white and then every room had a bunch of just dumb shit the projections, like, ruined the projections.

Yes. The kind of door with a big bar, and that's in the middle of the wall. Yeah, yeah. So it might be the face of an apostle, and then, like, cutting right through his nostrils as a big door bar. They did not fine-tune the visuals in a way that, like, a higher-end experience might. For something that's going to be running for the next four years. At least.

It was not adjusted to the space that it's mostly exclusive to. This is like a common thing that's happening, like having like experiences like this. Like there's a big Van Gogh exhibit that's touring where it's like all the walls have the paintings coming to life and you go through a couple different rooms. I've experienced that in San Diego. It was a lot better than this. They certainly put a little more time and maybe money into it. Yeah, yeah. But I do feel like this is.

More than the budget of this $5 million. Oh, no. Can you believe that? Oh, no. This is assuming that they used all of the five million. for the attraction. I guess we should really flesh this out. But this is a situation where like if you go to maybe a church and you say we're experts

at immersion, we need $5 million to make an experience. We pocket $4,950,000 and then we spend $50,000 on one projector and a bunch of AI videos. Yes. And we just make out like bandits and no one knows because everyone there's like, those nice people really delivered. That had CGI, like it would like one of those avatars. Right.

I felt like I was in Narnia when I was in there. Yeah. So maybe you need to explain what the, that's what we are. Yeah, well, you know, I think it took us all a sec to calibrate it. We didn't call it out at first, but pretty quickly we had the urge to start tapping each other and go, hey, is it just me or is this extremely AI? Yeah. This is the most AI thing I've ever looked at on a big screen? Because we were just watching, when we got down, sat down, it was just like the whole story of Jesus's life.

And we were in the middle where he was like turning loaves and fishes and making loaves and fishes and turning water into wine. They went through every. All the thing. We didn't realize they're going to go through every single thing. And there was a narrator narrating it. And then you'd be watching Jesus do the stuff on the different walls and people reacting to it. But because it was maybe AI shot to shot, everyone just would become just different guys. Different guys.

It's maybe why they serialized it, why it was like, yeah, here's the Loves and Fish's story, and here's where he walked on water, so that once, if you cleared the screen with a big title card that says, here's walking on water, maybe you'd forget in that time what Jesus looked like. Because he looks very different. Now, granted, he still looks different also from shot to shot. Because every time you see Jesus in this, you get all whole new Jesus. He had to see 10,000 Jesuses in this. Like Bob Dylan.

movie where they all different people playing. He went from one shot he looks like one shot he looks like Oscar Isaac the next shot he looks like WWE superstar Roman Rains like it's all I swear there was one where like the AI pulled Roman Rains his face if you guys don't know what he looks like I'll show you

I want to see him yeah you know our friend Kyle M the musician Oh yeah definitely look like that's yep absolutely Roman Rains Jesus for sure There was definitely some right yeah they're all types of buff Jesus to just regular size genesis to very frail, skinny to more Jared Lito Jesus. Less cheekbones, jaw, no jaw.

Whatever you in your heart, but except for a person of color. Not that one. Oh, no, no, wait. Let's not go crazy here. Thank God. Yes, thank God. I was about to say our friend Kyle M was on the show a couple of months ago and he was atoning a little bit for a, he got tricked by his friend Riley into making an

AI music video. It was all Riley's fault. Kyle had nothing to do with it. And I certainly had nothing to do with it. But I know a little bit of the behind the scenes where there was a program called Kling AI that is what Riley tricked Kyle M into using. And this music video involved like a lot of different Kyle's. And Kyle has long hair and a beard much like Christ.

And then Christ. Christ himself appeared in the music video for the song Digital Society. And it felt extremely familiar to me, like the types of faces, the specific Christs and apostles alike, I kept seeing them and going like, these are faces I've seen in the Digital Society video. So it makes me think that maybe that specific AI engine is what it was used for. It felt eerily. I kept seeing, I really felt like I was seeing Kyle in all 12 apostles to some extent. I know you can't say what the budget was for the Digital Society video. Was it $5 million?

More or less? Well, it was produced in Canada, so they saved some money. So it was only $4.5 million. Oh, okay. There was a tax break, maybe. For the production. Yeah. But it did, yeah, I was like, I think I'm on to this.

I think I know how. And yet truly that strange thing, like, different for every single time. And just the way it more. And like impossible shots and not like cool, not impossible shots like we like in avatar just like every little zoom was just like hang on that's not how that's not how things images work also the way like a lot of times people just be like crossing their arms and nodding that's like a lot of just crossing their arm and that went all the way through the entire thing into the present where it'd be science it's just like nodding but also um the narrator also i think was

probably had the tinge of like a jason woolen or a i i character yeah yeah yeah the narrator didn't quite square either. Yeah, yeah. Something wrong. The pace was a little bit too. Everything was like a drum machine. Now it's just, it's a little too perfect. It was, it was a very uncanny experience.

Somebody might have signed up for like a three day free trial. Yes. Yes. And did the whole thing in like six hours or less. We're going to have to buy more credits. There were. And we can't pocket 4.9 million of those dollars. And guys, just to remind us, this, this is over an hour experience.

Yes. This is way longer than we thought it would be. Yes, and it was. Because I didn't buy that either. I was like, oh, all right. Yeah, if we take our time and look at everything, maybe it's the 90 minutes that they say it's going to be. Nope.

Trapped in a room, in a chair. People will notice if you leave. If you go to the next room, there'll be nothing to see because it's not running yet. We're stuck. We are stuck in these chairs. We're in the timeline of Jesus. Right. And it's like, again, the shroud of Turin, this is like, I'm like,

this is going to be the central thing. No shroud and seen one. There's nothing about the shroud. It's just like catching us up on Jesus. And then I honestly, I felt I had been tricked. I had felt there was sort of a trick going on here. Jesus Christ Superstar. Like I know the basic beats of this.

I just want to know this mystery. I want to know what this piece of cloth is all about. Yeah, but you have to wait so much. But they feel the need to tell you all the stories of all the things Jesus did and then get you up to the crucifixion. And boy, just imagine the blast of seeing the crucifixion as portrayed in any form. It's fun no matter how you're seeing it, be it stained glass, be it direct. by Mel Gibson and be it done through the magic of AI.

Yeah. We do have to, you skip the last supper. Yeah. Oh, you're, okay. Very, very important. Okay, okay. So, most of the scenes, I would say, were unremarkable. Nothing interesting about it.

It felt like everybody else was eating it up. Just like, wow. Oh, yeah. Wow. See, this is like Jurassic Park except with Jesus. But there was one scene that drew us in more than others. And that was the scene of the last supper. Because most of the scenes are kind of like,

yeah it's immersive but there's no real like placemaking it's just like there's little little cgI scenes all around you but that changed at the last supper because when it fades up it's like the perspective is all of the apostles are giant surrounding you uh and they're all speaking at the same time they're all constantly talking they're not listening to each one not to each other no speaking to no lines all over all over they're out there now just It's opening clothes. Bab, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. Like extras, like unpaid background or barely paid background.

It is a nightmare you're watching. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like chatterer from a Hellraiser. And by the person, like, what's the perspective? If we are our normal sizes six feet or so. We're, we're like the brownies from Willow standing on the, on the table. Yeah. We're Kevin Pollock.

Then you, like, probably, first you're looking at the probably, like, by that measure, 90 foot tall, apostles. Yeah. They're all like the jolly green giant or something. But then you, then it's why the guy tapped you. The guy taps me. He's like, hey, head. Because then you look down and you realize something very important.

We're on the table. Yeah. Projected on top of us, below us, all around us is our giant platters of food. Yeah. Of the food that they were eating. Right. At the last supper. Now, you know, yes.

I was just going to say, which the only conclusion I can draw is that we are, are also food. Yeah. Right? Apostles are going to eat us. We're sitting right on top of the lentils. Ticket price to just be on the table. This is the highlight of the show.

Yeah, I would have loved to walk around on the table as long as they would let me. Oh, totally. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. To be like a look, well, it's like we're, if you pretend it's not religious, you can pretend we're in be our guests and we're Lumiere and Mrs. Pots. If you could, like, mess with the food? Yeah.

Oh, my God. You could stick your fingers on the hummus or something and, like, spread it around. Roll it. Chickpea around. The detail that some of the food was like hummus and like mezzay, like pitas and things that you would eat in Jerusalem. But right next to us also was a giant rib-eye steak with rosemary that had clearly been basted in butter. Just a thing you would get at like a very nice restaurant. Morton steak house.

The more than cooked to perfection, like a little grill marty. Like, this is an extremely high-end meal. This is like a star of a TV show is taking a staff out. Like, I'm going to treat you. The steak was so funny. It looked so good. I'm a little bit hungry even thinking about this. The food looked incredible.

Jesus did not have steak at his last supper. High, high end. Like from a steak goes where you pointed out. You pick it in the lobby. Yeah, it was probably like, yeah, dry. age. This was that, I mean, when you think about how big that table was and like massive platters and even the modest, even those, the carrots, those look like the best tasting carrot.

I read my stomach is actually like, I'm hungry right now. Yeah, yeah, we don't have to wrap this time. I can go eat dinner and pretend it's that, pretend I'm eating the last supper. It looks so fucking good. Yeah. But then what I was going to say was just like, and how many plates were there all told in the room probably like 20? What's the expense do you think of the meal?

if we went out for that meal with a bunch of friends $1,000. Yeah, easily. I think more. I think potentially even more. Yeah, yeah. Last supper is fucking great.

I had no idea. The last supper was so high end. It reminded you were going to Checker Hall in Highland Park? Yeah. Like, Gregor. Because it was like that it wasn't like, they were like accurate

with Mediterranean and it's feda. But then it looked like the best current done by artisan chef like just perfect, perfect modern hummus. What are they thinking? I mean, I love. love it. It's my favorite thing.

And then also that part of it is projected on my lap. It's on my knees. That's why I said, we are the food. We are the food. You become the food in the last supper. And that is a much better selling point for the whole experience. Just put that all the banner. Right.

You are the last supper. You are the last supper food. Be the food. Become the food. And then like have the apostles reach out to grab you. Would that I had a vore fetish. Is that what it's called? Yeah, I think so.

I was explaining what Vore fetishes to Aaron from the ground up yesterday. So I'm fresh on this. Getting eaten. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jason has it. Oh, yeah. Hey, Jason.

Yeah, his stomach is rumbling again. They need me. He imagines he's in Vore. He imagines he's an uncrustable. And it goes from there. When he puts a blanket over himself, is he imagining that he's inside an uncrustable? When he gets tucked under the cubs.

He forms a crescent shape with his knees. That's right. Oh, man. Oh, my God. This is the best. If you're going to go, this is a reason to go. Yeah. For this brief scene.

If you can, like, do a night at the museum situation and hide overnight and then turn on the last supper. Oh, just that one scene. Yeah. Just have a night where you romp around in the last supper, night of the museum for last supper. What do you think the password is for the computer? Christ? Yeah. Yeah.

John 316. Right. Or a shroud or something. Just get a shroud. Yes. Shroud. One, two, three, four five. I generally, I'm having the most fun.

This is really happening to me. I'm having the most fun doing this episode. And I could go for so much longer except I'm starving now. Yeah, I know. Sorry. It's only four o'clock. It's a weird time. I'm not, don't be sorry.

I'm so happy to be thinking about that delicious last supper. The last supper is so good. So this was like an immense highlight of this piece. Yes. And then they cut before you get to see the big moment. Am I wrong? them taking a bite of you? Well, yes, that's the big thing.

But like the last supper, how quickly after the last supper does Jesus get stabbed? Well, you didn't see Judas betraying him with a kiss. It kind of just went right to just Jesus in trouble. They went into the blood and stuff. Okay.

I just, I wanted this, I want a little more of a transition, I guess what I was saying. I remember it goes to a bunch of like similarly gigantic Roman soldiers who were all looking absolutely different directions.

Yes. Not watching Christ, the famous man. Sometimes walled, sometimes cross-eyed. The eyes through it. Eyes going weird directions

All right over the place, yes. Yeah, at one point in the next, something in the next room I wrote down in my notes five cross-eyed bishops. Nodding.

Yeah, yeah. Totally not. Very satisfied. Good job, eh, cross-side bishops? Yeah. So this is what I was dancing around that the L.A. Times article, which was written by Deborah Netburn,

this is the headline. Miracles, mystery, an AI Jesus, how a new exhibit near Disneyland wants to lure young Christians. And so if I'd remembered that detail, it must have pulled me in then because we were texting the article to each other

and that's what it was like eight months ago. Yeah, yeah, so I forgot that detail. But what an important detail on AIJ? And also, not to correct her, but it is 3,000 AI Jesus. Yeah, right, right. We're it merely one. But I mean, yeah, if these things don't start luring you,

if they don't peak your curiosity. Now, there's one other thing to say, Oh, wait, was there something else in the article that you wanted to bring out? Oh, it's in the other times? Oh, yes. Oh, it's in the museum. It's in the museum.

Okay, okay, we'll get to that. Whole other, oh, my God. So many sidetracks, but important things. We got a whole other one here. Did you guys notice that this thing was presented by something called Papayan Studios? No. I watched the trailer for it online,

and listeners, if you want to get a sense of how AI and the vibe of this thing, look up the trailer. but that reminded me, Papayan Studios presents the Stratt of Turin immersive experience. I'm like, okay, what's this? What's happening? Okay, this Papayan Studios is run by Hein Papayan. Hein Papayan is the widow of fairly recently deceased Haig Papayan.

Haig Papayan was the CEO of the Commerce Casino. Speaking of things between us and Disneyland, things on the five freeway. That is something that you passed in listeners. may have passed if you live around here. So the guy who, he worked his way up, he became, he was like a, like a non-public partner in it, and then rose his way up and ran the old thing and was part owner. And he, uh, he passed away in 2024. The, the, an obituary that I read implied that, like, he repented essentially

towards the end. How many millions of dollars do you think his wife got when he died? You think it was five? Five million? It's funny. I looked it up, but it is exactly. Five million and one penny. So it seems to me that maybe just a guess, just a guess.

I'm Papayan perhaps more religiously devout than the husband. The husband sees the end and goes, I want to, you know, just like make sure that the right thing is happening to me in the afterlife. And she takes this, I'm just guessing here because if you go to Papayan Studios.com, it's just a big letter from her to her husband with no information about what they do or what they are. So it was a little bit hard to decide. It was like, went to Myrtle Beach this summer, missed you. It's like that?

It's just the letter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. A very, very, like a sincere letter, certainly. And the love seems sincere. And her passion for Christ and religion seems sincere. I know this because I watched a video of her being interviewed, partially about this by CBN News, which is a religious channel. But she was also talking about some.

some of the other things that Papayan Studios is spearheading and doing. Do you guys remember a few months ago, I'm sure whether it was on our thread or a different thread, did any of you see a trailer for a kind of weird-looking Jimmy Stewart biopic? No. No? You saw it. Okay, okay. This is a biopic that stars KJ.

Appa, who's from Riverdale and who is this weird. Oh, he's Archie. Yes, that's right. Yeah, yeah. He's also this weird character who was presented on the Macy's Thanksgiving parade this year, presented. His name is like, you know, Mr. Kickass or something. And he performed a song in the parade as if, you know, here he is, Mr. Kickass. Yeah, I heard about this.

Yeah, yeah, I forget the actual name. But, like, that made me go, what the, who's this? What is this? What the fuck? He's big on TikTok, and he's doing a collab with Chipotle. What is this? What's going on? Yeah.

So this guy also stars as Jimmy Stewart. He, not me, some people online kind of made fun of the voice that he was doing as Jimmy Stewart. And the trailer looked kind of odd to some. Turns out that this is a partially religious funded film. Despite it being about Jimmy Stewart, but it's like largely about his military service and Papayan studios, the people behind Shroud of Turin are paying for a million. service men or first responders, they're buying a million tickets, which partially underwrites the film,

and then they get to go see the Jimmy Stewart movie for free. This is kind of reminiscent of Sound of Freedom. It's kind of a sound of freedom. It's all a conservative books. Who will buy one million Apple TV Plus members? Yeah. What's your best in? What's the closest to religious or patriotic angle you have?

Pieyan. Do you like sex work? That's what the show is about. Mary Magdalene was a... Prostitute? Yes, yeah. Yeah. I, anyways, I don't...

You know how Neil McDonough is in all the religious movies? He's in this. Rob Wriggles in this. Jason Alexander plays Louis B. Mayer. Did I miss that Rob Riggle became religious? I don't know. He's always been... I know he was on...

The club random. He was, yes, just on clubbrily. This week, he's Arnold Club random. I haven't gotten a chance to watch it yet, though. So don't ask me any questions. This shows you, Mike is busy. Me either. Yeah.

He's not able to watch. Right. I'm a little busy lately. Well, anyway, so now we have to pay, so this just all blew my mind. Wait, sorry, weird Jimmy Stewart movie is kind of a sound of freedom. And it's coming from the same money as the commerce casino that funded the Shrout of Turin. So now I got to pay attention to the Jimmy Stewart movie. Yeah.

There's so many assignments now. Trash. Trash to share. you were extolling more trash it's a miracle um anyways so now we know about papayan studios uh uh maybe we're ready to move out of this room there's so much going on that i missed i think that like a rock rolls away like the tomb and then you get to go or maybe that's the next room i don't know yeah yeah yeah we go into the next room we realize there's another room it's just more chairs in a different theater to sit in but i like this one because this was like fake rocks it felt a little bit like

A little bit like Indiana Jones or something or mixed with like Bugs Life Theater. Yes, absolutely. This is the best done of all of the. Yeah, this was the closest to like a real thing. An environment. And it also had like a kind of a coffin on the thing. Like the display. A display for a body.

Yeah. Rocks with a body under a shroud. Yeah. In the middle, like at the front. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. A piece of three-dimensional theming.

Yes. Like, ooh, like somebody you would see in Indiana Jones in the line. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so this is pretty good. We're getting a little Orange County theme stuff. I like this. But the downside is that now you're just watching a movie that's pointed one way. Yeah.

And this movie, I think the L.A. Times mentioned that this particular section is 18 minutes long. Oh, is it long. Yeah. And this one is homework. Yeah, yeah. Now Mike's getting his wish, though. You're getting information about the Stroud itself. and about the scientific studies of the shroud.

I know. Very defensive information. Very defensive. Very much. Like, I think there should have been another like transitional line here where they say, I know some of you might not think this Jesus guy existed, but here's all the proof. So pay attention because this is all real. For 18 minutes. 18 minutes.

Buckle up. 18 minutes we're going to have like AI people and then like real human people talking heads, like kind of shouting at you to prove to you. Beginning an argument that was not begun by you. So I just found a screenshot a picture I took of this room as we were sitting down. And so it just showed the body

on the pedestal. Yeah, there's this big quote, yes. It says David Rolf, on the screen above the body, it says, David Rolf, documentary filmmaker has offered a $1 million prize to anyone who could replicate

the shroud's unique characteristics, particularly the image of a crucified man that appears on the cloth without the use of pigments or dyes. So that's what was like just on the, it was like pre-show as you're sitting down. Okay. What a pre show.

Yeah. David Rolf. Learning about David Rahl. I saw another one that's another quote by John Walsh or something. The one for the America's Most Wanted guy. Which guy is this? I'm not having the name wrong. I'm not sure.

The whole shroud of turn two is so funny to me because it's like you're trying to make sure we know Jesus existed and all this stuff was real. The cloth is the best thing that you have to convince me? I don't know. The cloth, that's it? OJ Trial. They had a glove. a hat and look how that turned out. Well, you're right about that, but I don't, OJ didn't perform as many miracles.

I mean, on the field he did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true. Every time he ran. I'm just saying, like, couldn't we have had, like, more, like, examples of Jesus doing something great and people saying they saw him or something? More firsthand accounts versus just like. How are you going to get firsthand accounts?

That's what the first room was about. Isn't Jesus still doing cool stuff? Oh, you mean, like, oh. Oh, I don't know. I mean. In our lives? Right. Did he stop?

I don't know I know he is God His face will be in like a piece of bread or something But isn't it the three I'm looking at a Facebook story about David Rolf And people are arguing in the comments of whether Jesus is God But isn't it the three

That's boy The fact of we don't have that straight Well it's the father's son The Holy Ghost I thought they were technically all the same person Technically But all the different branches of Christianity Of different views of how literal that is Versus

So what are the Catholics? I don't even remember I don't know. I remember it's like they, we believe that literally his body, that you're eating his body and the other ones just believe that it's figurative. So we hate each other for that reason. Okay.

Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Okay, now I understand. Now it makes sense that you're eating flesh. You know, I'm watching Age of Disclosure on Amazon about the UAP phenomenon. And at least you got a lot of talking heads there that are telling me stories and I go, well, sounds like these guys are right.

These guys are real. Can I just show you? you guys the guy who's going around telling people Jesus isn't God and these comments on the on the documentarians Facebook page? Just this is his Facebook page and these are just almost identical photos of one man

just posing seriously and selfies just his own face just his own face over and over again I guess what I'm saying is like his name's Colin Dawson but like if you were trying to prove that aliens exist and they were like here's our best Here's our best thing is that we've got a footprint of one of the aliens.

Even in the snow or in concrete. And we're going to show you that the footprint is real. And you're like, that's the best evidence you've got. And we're going to devote 20 minutes to just this cloth. I get it that it's like it looks kind of like his face. But still, there should be like bigger things. Well, because there's people have faith about this. This is the shroud of turn and immersive experience.

Nobody has faith about aliens. I don't know. You do. I do. But yeah, yeah, you have faith in the OAP. But for other, I don't know. You understand my point, though. No, no, no, I do.

And I feel like, I mean, you're right that the thing feels like it's arguing at you, but it also feels like it's not trying to convert any. But it's like, you know, it's like doing a show to an audience that agrees with you already. Yeah, that's kind of what. I guess I want more like fantastic. I wanted more of like just wow me with the stories. Well, you had to learn about Sturp, the Shrout of Turin, research project. Everyone was wowed by Sturp.

So yeah, Sturp, let's talk about Sturp. Yeah. What did you say was? Shroud of Turin research projects. St-U-R-P. So the U is from Turin. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

It's one of those acronyms that has to borrow. I wish I was just like, with no you. I should just like, Sturp. Sturp. Sturp. And then thank you, thanks to the good people in Sturp. So, 178, like 30 scientists convened to do little experiments on the shroud. Yeah.

And they're called, they call themselves. Sturp, which is such a funny word. Thanks to Sturp, we know that the shroud is... I, yeah, I was thinking that it's similar to life. And thanks to the Shroud Heritage Academic Research Trust or Shart, we now know that... And also they were like, Sturp descended to only prove this scientifically. They had no religious, like, Alex allegiance.

It's like, come on, guys. Sturp. Yeah, there's like, there's some... I think we were so bored and tired that when someone started saying the word stirp we all perked up. That's something. A funny sound has been said.

Yeah. We finally have something to pay attention to. Did you at this point see a nun without a face too? Yeah, that's something I wrote down. None without a face. It was like it was like a profile view where there's like 10 nuns all

like was it were they working on the shroud? I don't know. I don't know. And then just like number eight off to the right just didn't have a face. It was also, it's that kind of AI. I've complained about this just in the mildest use of, like, I, you know,

the topic of the show, I will pull up a, oh, it's an old Disney World VHS or an old special or something. AI restored. And I go, oh, no. Yeah. Because I'm going to see, like, there's just going to be frames of faces that are so sharp looking. Where, like, it looks like a nose would just, like, slice you like a blade. And that's what this thing was full of, right? Yeah.

Too much. That's not what. Everyone was so attractive. active. Yeah, every single doctor and scientist and all kind of like, yeah, everybody acts like a background actor and something. And you're a scientist and you're showing something to somebody. Well, this is very interesting.

Yes, I agree. And I think this room was worse because at least the Jesus stuff they had to kind of invent from whole cloth, whereas this was a lot of like animating photos that they fit. There's one photo of stirp, here it is, and now we need them all to move and talk, not. to each other. Do you remember one part where it's like somebody did an experiment and then the experiment turned out to be wrong? And it just was close-ups on a hand crunching up a piece of paper.

A study? That's the only time one of us in the room did another person that wasn't us laugh. That's the only thing. We laughed at a lot of stuff. Is that what you do when a study turns out to be wrong as you're like, crudger? Well, here's what it was is that like, so in the late 70s, Sturp proved once and for all that the shroud of Turin was real because it has pollen from Jerusalem so we know this is true.

And then in 1980, then there was the 1988 study. And that 1988 study, there's a lot to doubt about it. And it turns out they took a part of the cloth that was not the right part of the cloth and it was tampered with. So it's proven invalid. And then they show that by cutting to a paper being coupled up. But before that it was like scientists were crossing their arms and nodding like all. Yeah. And it was like, yes, we did it.

Yes, yes. But it was wrong. Crunch, crunch, crunch. Crunch, crunch. All right, that answers. If they crumple it up, it must have not been right. But here's, okay, I told you, all I went into this thing with, I thought the strataturin was like a lady gave Christ a cloth and then his face stayed in it a little bit. And I'd never thought about it longer than that, questioned the validity of it. Now I'm in an experience that's supposed to prove this thing is real to me more than ever. And all I walk out of this going is 1988 study. What's up with 1980? here's what the 1988 study was so uh to go back to something you said earlier mike they they took a piece of the cloth and we're gonna like i don't know who did it but they were they were gonna radio carbon date the cloth they were gonna see do that process and figure out when

the cloth was yeah yeah new technology they didn't have in the you know medieval times when this was being shown yes yeah yeah uh so they they they do they are we're gonna go I'll study this for a while, and then we'll present our findings. All right, we're ready. And then they open, when you open the door to this thing, it was just two serious guys at a table in front of a chalkboard. And the chalkboard already had written on it 1260 to 1390. They just cut to the chase. We dated it, and this is when this cloth is from.

Not the year 33, not the year that this supposedly happened from the 1300s. Now, Mike, I believe you said that the Shrout of Turin did not appear. until 1354 in France, which is by what I'm looking at is right in the middle of that exact time frame, is it not? That's what I read as well. Yeah, very interesting. It would be weird if it was from 1390 because it would be from the 40 years from the future. Yeah, that's true. You're right. Even we're weirder. We found a future claw. That's the weirder thing than Christ.

No, because in in 1390, the same year in 1390, after the shroud appeared, a Catholic bishop in France, wrote to the Pope at the time and said, just so you know, I think that this shroud is a clever sleight of hand and that somebody has declared this the actual shroud that was folded in the tomb to attract the multitude so that money might be cunningly wrung from them. This is a Catholic bishop saying that to the Pope in 1390. And here we are and our money is getting wrung out in 2026. The same as they knew it then.

They knew then that it was. And it's not the only time they've used an artifact to try to get money. There's other examples. Oh, what are you thinking of? The Holy crib was something that they would attract. They would attract people to come. The knife from the last supper was something. A knife used by Jesus was also a matter of...

To cut the nice steak. Holy chalice, of course, from the last supper. The actual, the crown. of thorns was used by church to try to get people to pay some money. They thought they had the crown of... There's no way. There's a replica in this thing, but they call a replica. And then at various points in history, a number of churches in Europe have claimed to possess the holy...

What's the word, prepus? Jesus's foreskin from his circumcision. No! No! Tears shed by Christ as well. Pripus. P-R-E-P-U-C-E. never seen that word to describe the skin from my preposition.

Was it a childhood circumcision or an adult? Good question. I don't know. Scott. Scott should know this. When did you learn about Jesus' dick? I've never, I was never a lesson about Jesus.

What do you learn about it? Do you have to be sad for eight hours after you learned? They didn't test that one along. All I learned was to be sad and I was. I didn't get to learn about Dante's Peak coming out. But they would also some church sheds. like his tears that he shed when he was mourning Lazarus.

What fuck are you talking about? Jesus' tears. They knew the moment he shed the tears too, not just his tears in general. Somebody get a bottle. I lick them up and then I spit him into this bottle. The blood of Christ, a milk tooth that fell out of the mouth

of Jesus at age nine. It's a milk tooth. This is also called for Jason. Jason should have been here. Oh, you don't want a milk tooth? Beard hair, head hair, and the nail. This is a fascinating thing that you looked up. Finger nails or hand nails.

I thought there was the nails. It's through the palm. But I could be wrong. I'm sure they all nails have been on display at certain churches. So this is a racket. Appreciate that list that was really beautifully put together, Mike. It's Wikipedia. There's also one part where they were like this image has a crown of thorns.

And we all know that the only person in history to have died with a crown of thorns on was Jesus Christ. They just said that. if we all know that. And they never thought of it for this. You know, it would be, you know, it would be good. Cut his head up. That's the first time anyone's ever thought of that. Do they also say like no one's ever died in all this way?

Like two, like, in this agony? All of it. Like, they say like specifically, every detail here is so unique. I can't remember. It might be just the thorns, but like. Were people getting crucified all the time? That's what I thought. Yeah.

But it's, well, okay, let me go back to, because now that I'm thinking of it, I think that the, you know, maybe the crown of thorn. The point of the crown of thorns is like you think you're the king of the Jews, right? Well, then we'll give you with this crown. And then it cut is it. So I think that might be one aspect of how it was always at least presented to me is like, yes, there were crucifixions, but this was like an especially, this is the worst. A very public.

Crucifixion of all. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But there were three other guys, like multiple other guys that day. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And he like, yeah, they had a nice moment. That's part of the story. I'm also not, let me say at this point that, look, I grew up Catholic and my parents are Catholic. And a lot of people I love are Catholic and all kinds of things. And I'm not trying to be Bill Maher here. Not in that way.

I'm trying to be Bill Maher with all the seeds I eat and how funny I am. And you're cool. And how cool you are. And how cool I have the awesome parties that I'm going to frequent from 75. And only 21 year old to hang out with me. Now creepily skinny. I'm going to be. That's right.

No, but I'm like, you know, I'm not trying to do an episode where I'm like, this is all bullshit. But I do. I don't know. I entered into. I think the Shreda Turin can be fully removed from everything else that we're talking about. If you believe in these stories and they're important to you, then by all means. But I, like, the shroud just seems like this fake, tacked-on thing. And I never, never did I think about this for one second until we went to this thing.

And now I'm more sure than ever, thanks to the 1980s, thanks to the things they taught me in the exhibit. I learned everything they didn't want me to come away with it from. Sturp Avenger. You go track down individual members of Sturp. And tie them up and make them admit, like they made it up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So, sturt number one.

Sturp number 34. How old are the Sturt members? Are there any surviving Sturper's? Yeah. They're probably pretty old. Were they even real? Very convenient. Or Sturp even real?

Yes, there's a whole Wikipedia about Sturped. So there were people, we can verify. There's Sturp. Yes. But I, what is insane. This carbon, just why even tell me about the 1980? That's all I can think about coming out of it was 1980. I just like show me the story of Jesus and I go, okay, yeah, that's a cool story.

You don't believe in crumpling stuff up means it's going away. It's the international sign of trash. I don't know. So this is all I come away with is 1988 and Sturp and Nuns with No Face. This whole thing. This room really undid it all for me. No, the magic left me at this point. Yes, yeah, even though.

but then it does build to like the most impressive thing as far as themed experience that happens, which is that also they're saying all this stuff about we carbon data. And look, that's exactly where his blood marks were. And that's where the, and they all line up. And they see. And so like it's all kind of pseudoscientific for a while until the end and they go. And then there's a flash of light and then he disappeared. So that's why.

Yeah, the shroud. That stamped the image in. There was a magic photocopy. Yes. And then that happens in front of you. Yeah. So it goes like it sinks, the body sinks into the ground. Yeah.

But it's supposed to be. practical magic trick before your eyes. 45 to 60 minutes into the experience. Right. Now all. The first thing that has happened. The first thing. The first interesting thing you've seen.

Besides being food. The actual themed entertainment. All the talking points they use in this video were repeated by Mel Gibson on the Joe Rogan show. So do you think he's been? Or this is just, this is modern like kind of Stroud of Turin talking point. What if he just goes every day? It's possible. Interview might have been old as well.

I mean, you would have, he probably has it in his house. What if he just sits, like, on the steak? He's like, pick the food he is. I am the, nope, I'm the steak. You can't sit here, I'm the steak. This is my chair. My chair is my chair is. Nude on the floor.

Get up, get up. I'm having steak. I'm having steak. I am the steak. Get up, get up. This is how he acts. I don't know what's wrong. Some nice kid who works there, like a volunteer at the church,

thinks it's their time to go sweep the floor. Lord, they come in, get out. I have this thing. Punching the apostles trying to save Jesus at the last supper. Stop talking and listen to the man. So at least there's this. And we get a little, like we get a finally, some little adrenaline at the end of room two out of,

we don't know how many at this point. We now move to room three. And room three, now you're in kind of, now everything's frame. Now all the AI imagery is presented like you're in a little temple. And sometimes it's like statues come into life And stained glass coming to life And the thing about room three is it is so boring

Oh, it sucks, yeah There's nothing as interesting as the shrown. I don't even know how it was different than the other parts. The worst of the three, yeah. Absolutely the worst. It was them telling you all this stuff that happened after he came back to life. Yeah. It rolled through different cartoons

done in the style of different medieval painters using artificial intelligence. Yeah, don't you wish a painting could come to life and be all fucking, bulgy and shimmy. No sense in the way it moves and turns its head. Its cape would be

hanging like upside down way too long when it moved. That's right. Its eyes would always be turned the wrong direction. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but this thing really, this should be first.

This should be. I mean, they should cut it. Yeah. Yeah. It should be not in it. It should be this. It should be this, then straight to last supper, then much shorter.

Just thirp, just 88. Body disappears. Then you're in the gift shop. Yeah. Yeah. So boring. I wrote down that it's one story where all the apostles are fishing and then they see on the cliff a distant Christ and like a man came and he shouted to them and then he said, dip your nets into the water and then there will be fish and then he did and they were. And like, oh my God, there's fish. But who is the man? Who is the man? Like none of them think, do you think that's our friend who we died three days ago who we know for doing man? magic? Do we think that it's him back? They swim over and they get up next to him and they're like, are you?

And it's like, if you can't recognize him that close up, he's some other guy. That's right. I give it to they don't recognize him from the boat. But then once you're, yeah, if you're talking to him face to face. They're like, man, you must be our friend. I guess it's our friend. And when you're doing a story about like mistaken identity and is he the one he says he is, it really hurts your case when it's fucking AI and every. character looks different every time you see them.

But he just looks like Jesus. Like he's looked the whole time. Right. He doesn't look any different. That's where I was confused. Where I was like, are they saying he's just around still? Or did they get like men and black like flashed and so they don't remember what he looks like? When the flash happened, it made Jesus disappear.

That was also a men and black flash. De neuralized. But yeah, is it, is it? Or it's like, yeah, well, the end of Spider-Man, No Way Home where everyone forgets who Spider-Man is as far as a secret identity. And now Tom Holland is like kind of a Jesus-like. figure who has to save people and no one knows who he is is all of his personal relationships are gone yeah yeah so is that what is that what jesus does now in modern day that's my question from

earlier is jesus still sort of going around and we go who was that man who like helped tow my car or helped like put a new tire up like is that what the idea is i don't think so i don't know what i was thought to but i but i was also taught to believe that he can be like he's with you and right i've heard the he's with you thing yeah but it's not like that he's like he's physically around, I don't think. But then when did he stop being physically around? Can anyone on listening answer if Jesus is physically around? Is he physically around?

Is he physically around? Is he like a mysterious stranger? Is he literally picking us up on the beach and walking around with us on his shoulders? That's the way we don't get our feet dirty. Yeah. Well, good exhibit would be you do the footsteps live and the footsteps appear. Like could you make sand suck down? I can name 170 good exhibits for this

that we could have seen. Yeah. Put our heads together. We could have done this for... A little lazy and tired. We could think of things much more. Four million easy. I was going to say three.

We should talk to us. Sure. We're fans of the church. The fan of Thurl and Marie Callender. We think we could do something even better if you can imagine. Higher. The boys. Studios or whatever we should call it.

Podcastian studios. Podcastian studios. And we all, for only a couple million. The Sturp experience. Yeah. There's got to be like rich widows that are religious that would give us a lot of money. We're experts. in Disneyland.

You work there? Not quite. Our work is talking about there. So we know a lot about it. And we think we could make it be like Disneyland here. And we send Jason in to seduce them first. First of all. And then they give us all the money.

That's the two-part plan. It's just one missing step. Jason, you have had it. I don't know. Have you ever heard of the Academy Awards? Why, yes, I have. Work done. Did you work on return of the host?

No, no. When our one of our friends did. We cover a lot between us. We cover a lot of the cold opens. When I missed what I wrote down was that in somewhere in that where they've emerged from a boat or something. At some point the narrator says just completely straight-laced, Peter, dripping but eager. Oh. Somebody look at this copy.

Nobody checked anything. They just like, they hit Go. They paid the tokens. Yeah. And they got the compute and they paid it. And then they just, they just installed the projectors. Was AI, when this was done, we said, here it is, we did it. We're here from Papayan Studios.

We have done what you asked. Was AI a feature, not a bug? Did they have to, was it like, oh, use that AI stuff. I've been hearing a lot about that. Wow, this is a very good application of AI. Or did they, did the church people? People just say, interesting, how'd you do this? Oh, computers, it's computer stuff.

Or does Papayan lady, Mrs. Papayan believe they cast actors. And that's why it costs $5 million. I think to sag fees. To somebody who doesn't know this technology exists, like the first time I ever saw generative AI, I didn't believe, I was like, is this a movie I've never seen? Yeah. So, man, this was a couple years ago. Now we have our, like now we know the tells and stuff.

Right. And now it feels familiar. You know exactly when this is like AI. But like imagine you're like an old lady who perhaps isn't so online. Pine papayan. Mrs. Papayan. Yeah. So and you show like we just made this Jesus movie. Is that Jim Cavizzo?

Yes. Is that Roman Raines? Yes. Yes. We got Roman Raines. I love him. Every long-haired actor to be Jesus. I don't know, man.

It's a great question. I'd love to know. How did they trick? How did this happen? I mean, I think there's a lot of tricks going on in this field. Yes. And in the world right now, there's no crime is a job. Like, just like Guar wanted.

We have the grifting as president of all time. And I think that trick is out. Crime is his job. Crime is his job. And he loves Jesus. And he loves the Bible. Now, regardless of whether or how we feel about the quality, one thing we know, Donald Trump would love this.

This would be so up his alley because Jesus is in it. His favorite guy. Quote, nothing beats the Bible, as he said. Which is your favorite story? All of them. He'd love this because all of them are in.

They do all of them. They do the things he likes. One more thing in the final room, in the, then you get out of the filmed entertainment. Bank of Christ. But you have to find the exit. You're in this museum.

Yeah, yeah. And you want to find it as quick as you can. But then you want to, but then maybe a guy stops you in like kind of a docent or somebody who works there. And in the, article they describe this thing because I guess it happens every single time that oh sorry I went to stirp instead I don't have the article anymore oh I thought I thought I've got it um well you talking about the

extra little kick that was done yeah yeah yeah I'm sorry well because uh so here's how this happens is that a guy the guy who worked there approached us we kind of made it away from the pack a little bit and we're looking at something specific in in the well we're watching more videos of the guy Robert Spitzer argue you could put on like three TVs at once and I'll watch then watch the same priest argue different points yeah we're looking we're looking over there and then a guy walks up and it's like hey there's something there's something special I want to show you here and and you guys you might get a kick out of this you might too yeah and we thought he meant all of us yeah you might get a kick out of this I thought all three of us then he othered

eva right and said you too yeah for so So what does that mean? Didn't he ask you guys if you were engineers or computer programmers? He didn't even ask. He just said, because you guys seem what you're all like engineer types. And we said, yeah, something like that. Yeah, something like that. But why did he take you out of it?

Because of girl? I was too tired to even imagine. Yeah. It might have just been like he's like, here's two engineers and their friend who's not an engineer. Obviously. Because I didn't hear her say something that felt like an engineering. talk. Some sort of engineer talk. But she still might manage to get a kick out of this.

It's possible. I'm not being a dumb non-engineer girl. I would still know what we said that felt like, like maybe, yeah, you commented on like a lower third or something. Somebody said something about, I said something about the, that was pointing at the poor video quality. That must have been. Oh, this guy must be in the business.

The business of engineering. Engineering. So then he showed us something very technical. and he explained that he showed us an image of the Stratt of Turin, of which there are, you know, 45 in this room. But this particular one, he's like, no, look at this. What I have is an enhancer on my phone. Oh, yes, an enhancer.

And this will really show you in even greater detail. And then he pulls out his phone and he turns on the enhancer. The enhancer is the negative filter. Yes. On the kind of the mix of like an x-ray effect or turns black to white and white to black. And that is what he does. And that lets you see that Jesus's face like a little bit better. And we saw it due to like three other groups of people in the article I read.

He did it to the reporter. So it's like it happens all day. This guy's like, he uses the enhancer. Enhance. And then he says he got like goosebumps. So I think he like. He gets goosebumps so many times a day. He might die from it.

He's getting so goosebumps up. Like, which must be. Did he get. Painful to get the goosebumps that much. Yeah. Because your skin can't take that. Especially he's an older fellow. Yeah.

Your skin can't take that much stress. I'm trying to think, is there been a day where I've got, you know, maybe the most exciting day ever I get goosebumps three times. Yes. If you get goosebumps constantly, those bumps might stay. You might be forever goosebumps. Yeah, yeah, it's bad for you. Yeah, I don't do that, man. You've got to stop being excited about the enhancer.

Someone calm the guard down. Then the next time you're in an intimate situation with a partner and they're touching your body and they go, what's wrong with you? Your goose bump head to toe. I'm sorry, I did too much enhance it. Did you go to the ark and get measles? The shroud did it. The shroud. Oh, my God.

This thing, what an insane thing. Was there anything else in the building before we? No, I mean, it was such a blur. Like, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. It was such a rush to get in. I feel like I didn't get a chance to really take in some of the other stuff. So it just feels like a blur because it started sort of that way. Oh, we got to rush in.

Like, orange lit up portrait of Jesus that you guys took a picture in front of. Yes, we'll post that. Yeah. I tried to pose like him. I recall. I don't know if I did it effectively or not. There was like a bronze laying down Jesus in one room. Yes. Yes.

So there was stuff in little, like, like facsimiles of things in this like little museum, but nothing. We kind of breeze through there. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't anything amazing. And the gift shop, and the gift shop had some of the most upset. things. Scott really was reeling from the gift shop. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, you saw. It kind of took me to a, well, it was specifically, there was the thing that you

noted in a children's coloring book that just like unlocked a lot of memories that I had long since repressed. And it was a coloring book of the Stations of the Cross. Oh, yeah, yeah. I didn't, I didn't realize that. Yeah. It says third station. And it's a photo of a, oh. Like a, not a photo, but like a coloring book out. Oh, yeah, an illustrated, a blank illustration. That's not colored for you to color. That's an angel hovering behind a weeping boy on his knees. And the caption says, dear Jesus, help those who do wrong to be sorry. Yeah.

I'm like, oh, no, that's what everything felt like in my child, like that I've, you did everything wrong. It's, you screwed up. I'm feeling it again because I made us be late and we couldn't take it all in. Now I feel like there's an angel behind me right now helping me cry and be sorry. As you pointed out, you were just like, this is a thing to help children be more sorry? Wait, Scott, we missed this one. It was Station 7th Station, and it was two kids standing in front of a guy at a science says food store.

And here, I'll just show you it. You can describe what you're seeing here. It's another image from the same book. Oh, that's right. No, this is the one you were talking about. It's a very, like, guy in tight jeans, like, kind of a young George W. Bush-looking guy in front of a store that says food store. And what happened?

Then there's two sad children. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe. You stole from the food store, but the coffee is... I don't know. I don't know if they have anything in their pockets, sir, but it looks exactly like me and my sister and we're dressed exactly like we dressed. And then it says, dear Jesus, help me to be sorry for any wrong I do.

but what did they do? He's yelling at it. He's like hovering to yell at him. Did they steal? Did they like think bad thoughts inside the food store? Did they crave the food of another? Everything's just long.

When you're a little Catholic kid, you are like, just so just so you know, you should be feeling bad about at least one thing at all times and there's probably like 10 other invisible things that you don't realize you're supposed to feel bad about and you should. It's interesting that like the tactic

tick hasn't changed. Everything is the same, right? Like, when you were a kid? Like, there's no... I think this... I think they were selling probably this literal coloring book when I was a kid.

I just think it's funny that, like, the strategy hasn't changed. Yeah. It's the same stuff. The very appealing... How do we pull young people in with guilt?

Yeah, I know. Oh, it was also, like, a really depressing-looking mystery book for pre-teens called Mystic Informant, which was book one of the Douglings's adventures. And it just looked like so depressing. like, yeah, just like, it was a bunch of kids. It was like, it looked really self-published and the douglings.

Oh, they're so, they're airbrushed in such a bad. And another book called Boy Heroes by Dom Album Fruth, OSB. Boy heroes. Which had a chapter called. Froth and Sturb. The picture is just a kid laying in bed frowning, looking sorry, holding a cross, looking up at a, it looks like he's in a hospital and he's looking up at a, his own chart.

And then that's the cover. And then one of the chapters were called Tonio Gaines More Self-control. I took a photo of Tonyo The page that says Tonyo brings joy to the unfortunate And I just landed on this sentence Then Tonyo whispered into her ear Mama kiss poor little Johnny too

He has no mother anymore I've also noticed that the author of the book About sad Tonyo is Tonyo Martinez Wow Wait, it's different than Bowie heroes Wait you have two different Tonios? I don't know Or at least at the top it says Tony O'Martine.

Okay, okay. I don't know. I'm not sure. Here is the, my takeaway from this entire experience was like some people have really limited access to entertainment. Yeah, you were talking, you made me sad, but also thankful for my own upbringing that it wasn't this bad. When you talked about babysitting kids who had Christian video games.

Yeah, like computer games that just don't exist or like, you know, or who can only watch Veggie Tales or whatever. Right. So it's like the restriction is really bad. And maybe that's why some people think that this movie that we watch for an, hour is good. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that's what they have to do. They don't have the money to make good movies. You have to limit their access to other, but it's that kind of like, it was really exemplified in the, you do have, yeah, it could have been better. You got five million dollars. But it was really, this kind of syndrome was really exemplified in the halftime show debacle of the Turning Point USA with Kid Rock not synced up correctly. And then the guy's singing up like, kiss my fish, fuck a duck.

And that like, you. I'm sorry, however you feel about values and whatever perverse thing has led you to think that the mere act of speaking Spanish is a problem, just watch the two of them.

Like, that bunny thing is like the most spectacular entertainment ever assembled living cornstalks on a football field. That thing was amazing. You just can't, they can't compete.

And so it really, yeah, it tries me crazy. You just can't, I think even if you were super religious, you have to, like, put up confines for your kids, within the culture. You can't make them be in a different culture.

Or just have them be at school. Everyone's talking about Hunger Games and you're just like Douglings adventures. You know what I like going on. I used to read it as Douglings adventures. I like the mystery covenant the best. How about you? You can't do.

We're already so fractured as I feel like with my kids like thank God that there's things like K-pop demon hunters and just like big pillars of the, You just, you can't do that. I am thankful. I've been talking shit about my upro. I'm thankful that my parents, even they had to go like, we like the Simpsons.

We're we supposed to do. We're not going to like, they didn't make me be in an alternate reality. Oh, it drives me so insane. So I would encourage, I think you're probably already there if you're listening to this podcast, but take your kids to Disneyland

and the Shrout of Turin experience. But don't just take them to the Shrout of Turin experience. And then, If you want, take them to the next place we went. Well, definitely take them to the next place we went. This ended up being a perfect counter that we chased this very religious experience with a little bit of witchcraft. And from your living in Buena Park for a little bit, you found this place that was so fun.

So many times because it was the best place to hang out of Buena Park. The cauldron. The cauldron right across the street from Knott's Berry Farm. I'd seen it. spooky witchcraft themed bar and restaurant. This was a delight. It's great. I thought the food was surprisingly great.

I liked everything we had. I like crazy cocktails. We had smoked cocktails. That's always fun. Cocktails with bubbles full of smoke? Yes. Mike made a cocktail that he had to assemble himself from a box. I got a middle magic box.

It was called the Velvet Lock Pick. And it was like I was supposed to like be like summoning love. Yes. I think. And I made sure I cleared it with the waitress that it wasn't going to like make me fall in love with a different woman. This is very sweet that you asked at the witchcraft bar.

This isn't going to bring me, this won't bring me new love, right? I don't want. 85% a joke. 95% of joke. But there's part of me that's like, I just want to make sure that this isn't what this is. We need to stirp to prove whether this witchcraft is real or not.

I got a lot going on. I don't need to have my marriage break up. Because you wanted some berbin. I can't deal with that right. right now. So yeah, no, she said it was fine. It would just give me more like general love feelings. Love from the people who already love you. That's nice. So that's, and although I don't know, she might have been bullshitting me. I felt like maybe she was like. I think she was just thought we were fun. Well, we were. I mean, sure. We proved our point. Everywhere we go, we're fun. So yeah, it was, I mean, it was basically just like a Manhattan type drink. And yeah, it felt like I was the bartender. There was a little, you know, little vials and. But there was a thing. You had to.

like put a stamp in your mouth. I had to put a piece of like edible paper in my mouth. And I took a picture of you doing and you look miserable. I didn't like it. I didn't enjoy that. When I said it was an immersive cocktail, I didn't realize it was like an escape room in a box of a cocktail. Yeah, I guess I wanted like just like you open the box and lights and a little song plays. And maybe there's one element like the shark bite at Joe's Crab Shack where you pour the blood into the big like the blue.

Too much. Too much work. It might have been a little too much work. And, yeah. But this place is full of, looks like Orange County Goths on a date. Yes, a lot of Orange County Goths. And it's got like a, it's got holograms. It's got little shadows of cats walking across the bar and stuff.

Yeah, big like eyeballs and stuff on the fireplace. A mirror that has like holograms in it. And then it's French food and the French food is good. Yeah. I was surprised. I sort of didn't believe it. I liked everything I had. Yeah, this, yeah, strong recommend on this.

But if you're in Buena Park and you should be. You should be almost every. Check this thing out. Almost every weekend. Yeah. I went there like a bunch of times and one night I didn't go there. But I was at the hotel and like two girls I really like from the art department like peeled in and the Uber and stumbled out. And they were like, we just went to the best place.

And I was like, is it the cauldron? They're like, yes. Wow. Oh, fun. You know what it felt like was like a place that, it felt like a place that had started with good intentions gotten bad, been bar rescued and now works fine. Yeah. It's like it did that without any of those stuff. Like it started not needing a bar rescue.

Every element of it is delightful. Yeah, I was surprised. I never would have got it. I think I thought that was like hokey and silly, but I totally liked it. So thank you for that. What a perfect chaser. So I guess if we're deciding between Christianity and witchcraft, we choose witchcraft. Of course, evil.

Did you guys walk to Knotsbury Farm then? No. You talked about it. We reparked our cars. We have parking. We didn't want to get towed by it. Oh, that's because you guys walked away and I was like, I think go in to just do like another Natsbury Farm thing?

We did, we went back in, you know what we went to do. We had a Boisenberry IPA and I don't really like those Boisenberry beers and I really liked it. And it feels, it's fun to order from that saloon as we've done, Eva. So you did go back in. We did go back in. Yeah, yeah, you had been earlier. You pre-gamed and went back in. I went for the first time.

You went to the saloon, you got an IPA. All right. We went into the what during Ghost Town is like the, what's the main building in City Hall. Oh, yeah. The City Hall was playing a really boring movie about Knott's history. We ate that shit up. It was great.

We were having such a good time. It was only us and one guy sleeping. Oh, man. We were loving it. Maybe was it that the things in the movie were real? I think perhaps there were real humans in the video we were watching. I don't know for sure. But I'll all say the thing excited me the most was seeing like home movie footage of the Nauts.

in a living room, a tiny living room, planning out things for Nottsbury Farm. God, I got chills. I got goosebumps now. Get rid of them, shake them off. Don't keep them forever. 60s, like, red carpet. Like, and I'm not a red carpet like a Hollywood premiere.

I mean, just red carpeting. More like a burgundy carpet. Burgundy carpeting. And then they're all just sitting crammed together, like one with a notepad, and the whole family is figuring something out about Nottsbury Farm. I love Knotsbury Farm so much. I want to get that crazy pass you guys have,

so I can go to the secret bar. Well, only Mike has that. I got to see it. Oh, I saw it. And I'm not throwing Mike under the bus because he, before we got in, Mike said, just so you know, lower your expectations. And it was kind of like a sort of like a bus station waiting area. It's like a sad green room, right? A little bit.

Not sad, but just sort of nondescript. But then we went to order drinks from there and it was just canned wine and canned beer. And I was like, sorry. I don't think we want the draft. Yeah, I always want a draft. And especially if you have the option to get a draft at a saloon, like a few steps away.

You got the taste of poisonberry. You got it. She understood. She could not have been nicer about it. But I've seen the room. I could see how the room would be very helpful on a hot day. I see why you got the crazy pack.

Unlimited cookies. The saloon where we experienced what would have been a mass casualty event during Ghost Island. It was like the, they were shooting, the mass shooting that happened inside and outside. Yes.

The saloon would, with children. Yes. Less murders during the Boysenberry Festival. It was Boysbury Festival too. There was a little show. Boysbury Festival probably its own episode down the line. I didn't absorb it enough to talk about it this time.

But this is, you know, it felt great to do a rip-roaring, the crazy long episode where I don't even believe the things that we did, where I started to feel loopy and insane by the end. But it's what you bring with you, of course, Eva. Oh, guys. Anderson, you survived podcast, The Ride. Yay! This is so much fun.

I'm so glad you wanted to do this nonsense, and I hope it was fun for people to listen to. Let's exit to the gift shop. Tell us a little more about Margot's Got Money Troubles. Margo's Got Money Troubles based on the hit cult novel by Rufie Thorpe, and created by the master David E. Kelly is a series. It's insane you've been working with David E. Kelly for the one time. Oh, hell yeah.

Wow. The best. And his wife, Michelle Pfeiffer, also stars in the show for the first time ever. They've never worked together until... They did like some little thing, but you've never like fully worked together or anything. Yeah.

Jeez, wow. Yeah, so El Fanning is a college student at Fullerton College. She gets knocked up by her teacher and has the baby and ends up having to do only fans to survive. And her mom is Michelle Pfeiffer and her dad is Nick Offerman,

a former professional wrestler. And it's about, it's a very weird loopy story. It has a lot of fun people in it. Great. Marsha Gay Hardin, the rapper Rico Nasty. It's great. Michael Angarano, who Disney Channel people love. Yeah, wait, sky high, right?

I like him. He's awesome. He plays the teacher, the titular teacher. Wow. It's great. Check it out on Apple TV Plus, debuting Tax Day, April 15th, with three episodes, and then every week thereafter.

That's a good way to play it. Not just the week to week. Like, you do a little bit of binge, and then that's a good move. I've just the little glimpses, the images and the things that you show. What I love is that I cannot currently piece together how it all works.

And I'm so excited to see it and figure out how it all works. Like you may have seen the image of Nicole Kidman in a wrestling outfit with Chris Jericho out of focus and the deep background behind her, as many people point out. That is part of the show and that is episode four. And there's Vegas too? Oh, there's a lot of weird Vegas stuff.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. I'm really excited to watch it. We're thrilled for you. Oh, thanks guys. Have you back. So happy to be back. As for us for three bonus episodes every month,

check out Podcast the Ride the Second Gate or get one more bonus episode on our VIP Tier Club 3. You'll find all that at patreon.com slash podcast The Ride. One thing I wanted to ask just about the show, just a technical question. How many of Batman's girlfriends are in it? Two. Two. That's a lot.

Chase Meridian and Catwoman. Right. That's pretty good. Catwoman's real name. Selina Kyle. Wow. Chase Meridian and Serena Kyle. Have you guys talked on the air about how Chase Infinity

is named after Chase Meridian? Yes. Okay, good. Chase and Buzz Light Years, catchphrase. Yes. Okay, cool. She's like, did she spring from your forehead like Zeus, like Athena? Yes. Feels like it.

This has been a Forever Dog production. Executive produced by Mike Carrey. Jason Sheridan, Scott Gairdner, Brett Boehm, Joe Silio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit Foreverdog Podcasts.com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram at Foreverdog Team and liking our page on Facebook.