Podcast: The Ride - The Living Seas

Episode Date: January 15, 2021

It's the 35th Anniversary of The Living Seas! Watch the scary movie and board a Hydrolator with us as we talk manatees, seacabs, and the war between Epcot sponsors. Gripes Form: https://bit.ly/2L1t4ZH Six Flags Roller Coaster Cuts Episode up The Second Gate: Patreon.com/PodcastTheRide Listen to Podcast: The Ride Ad-Free on Forever Dog Plus: http://foreverdogpodcasts.com/plus FOLLOW PODCAST: THE RIDE: https://twitter.com/PodcastTheRide https://www.instagram.com/podcasttheride BUY PODCAST: THE RIDE MERCH: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/podcast-the-ride PODCAST THE RIDE IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST https://foreverdogpodcasts.com/podcasts/podcast-the-ride Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

forever dog warning the following podcast takes place under the sea but you won't find any singing crabs or crustacean bands here just soulless ocean life and the unforgiving weather controlling bodies of water that exist on the brutal planet earth yeah it's the Living Seas on Podcast The Ride, the theme park podcast hosted by three C-Bass Alpha males. I'm Scott Garnerd, joined by Mike Carlson. Yeah, that is maybe like the most aggressive we could possibly sound. If there was like, we're tough guys, but we love Epcot.

That makes a lot of sense to me. So I really like that. Thank you. It'd be a fair name for one of those gangs or social gathering groups. I forget what euphemism they were using. But if that had to be ours, if it isn't one already, might be one already and we're really messing with their territory uh jason sheridan the third male uh cbs alpha sounds

like a marketing department was trying to clean up the image for the term wet blanket or uh wet noodle uh so i guess that's right i guess that's right. I guess that's the case. Trying to make wet blankets desirable and cool. Yeah, make it something people desire, something people want. Well, yeah, but Jason, you're upset because you don't like that wet blanket is used as a bad thing because you love a wet blanket. You love to sleep soaking wet. You love to be wet from head to toe constantly. Sure, yes. you love to be wet from head to toe constantly uh sure yes uh did okay did i bail on an airbnb once because all of the bedding was still soaking wet yes i did we have heard that and that was shocking to me i know some some wetness is is fun wetness wetness that you're fond of, but not all. All right. Clothing wetness, not blanket and bedding wetness.

Yeah, that seems to be the boundary. Yeah. Okay. All right, all right. I apologize. Are we fond of today's wetness brought to you by the Living Seas, an Epcot attraction that is our uh our topic today and we're doing it today because this day that you're uh listening to it if you're listening to it uh on the release uh it

is january 15th and on january 15th 1986 uh this ride opened as 35 years ago on this very day which is a stat that makes me feel very old oh my god yeah we're we're like there's like a couple years left for us i think like it doesn't when i think about sorry to take it in an extra dark place it's just it's crazy time time existing and seeing yeah all these videos and going oh okay that was 30 years ago. How old am I? Oh, shit. Yeah, I know. It doesn't square with your own age a lot. I think it's just weird because we were very little when Disneyland had its 35th anniversary, which is an indelible thing for me at least.

I'm just seeing 35 a lot. I couldn't imagine a bigger number. I didn't think I'd make it to 35, much less beyond. Sure. I was looking at archival footage, and I was looking at the dates on YouTube and on different websites, and I was eating an airhead. And it didn't square with me because I'm like, I'm eating like a child, and I still think of myself like a child. But yet this tells me I'm not a child i am far from it i yeah i love this i love the living seas i i feel like it always caught me off guard it's so often the

the corner of epcot and it was such a unique experience of like a standing pre-show uh a theater pre-show uh the hydrolator i love the hydrolator i loved and feared the hydrolator um and and the sea cabs and and so it was like a sequence of experience as opposed to i think the martin's vids on this is really good he points out that like oh the other pavilions had like one key attraction each. This is like a sequence that you experience and it's very unique. And that also helped them control crowd flow. Cause it, it does eat a lot of people per hour.

Yeah, it's, it's well, here, here's what I'll say. We talked a little bit. We did a horizons episode a couple months ago at this point, right? That was a couple months.

That wasn't 35 years ago. I don't know. It's possible. It's been a long last few weeks, so it's hard to say. So we did that, and we were sort of talking, and I think Scott and I more agreed that as kid brains, a lot of these Epcot rides sort of blended together like you could have shown me maybe a video now or whenever the first time i started watching like old retro videos

you could have put in a scene from living seas you could have put a scene in from world of motion and my brain would have gone oh that makes sense that looks right um and then we sort of were also talking about how it felt like epcot was a concept album. You know, it was a challenging second album, and they were sort of, everything actually felt like it fit together. You could maybe take out pieces of Rides and put them somewhere else, and they would kind of thematically feel similar. So I will say, as a kid, The Living Seas didn't make a huge impression on me. I don't have such fond memories of the

hydrolator i love the hydrolator now in my adult years seeing it don't get me wrong don't come for the come for me with pitchforks yet but i will say i didn't have such a nostalgia for it as much as i did for like figment himself and then the nostalgia of Epcot, which of course I love. I think part of my nostalgia is I bought it. I bought that we had to go. I was like, well, we're not going to the bottom of the sea, but clearly we have to go down to get to the transit to get to the aquarium section of this. Are you accusing me of not buying it as a child?

Well, I don't know. Do you think you did? I especially love that you had to play along. You had to take a Hydrolator to exit. Like not the ones with the full windows, but like they had X, you couldn't just, now you just, when we were at the current iteration, you just walk in and out of the gift shop.

You don't have to take the ride. No, this has nothing to do with me buying it or not. As a kid, I was scared of all of all this i thought this was all real i'm just saying as a kid i just don't have such strong memories of it like other pieces i think you also went a little more often than we did that's true yeah we went every two to three years and then every year for very very brief period of time sure sure so i i'm just trying to give a picture of exactly where my enjoyment lies there's um uh i feel like i'm i was sort of neither here nor there i i like it was wouldn't have been my favorite epcot

thing probably wouldn't have been my least favorite epcot thing there's a strong opinion about this attraction in my household and i'm not I'm not sure if I should get into that now or if we get to that part of the thing. Because if there is anything more introductory to do... Actually, one thing we forgot. We're just calling it The Living Seas today, and for a long time, this attraction has been The Seas with Nemo and Friends. But that's one of those. Are we going to call this episode The Seas with Nemo and Friendsmo and friends i don't think you got to go back to the original title yeah and look to be honest i didn't know they had changed the name i thought that's what

they were just calling the ride i didn't know the whole pavilion is now called that i just missed that at some point because so much of it is still kind of standing especially I mean my family too we were a big coral reef restaurant family and I have not been there in years I want to go now that I've seen the official like on the Disney website

it has it's like a perfect perfect fossil like a fly preserved in amber it has not aged, apparently. Yeah. It's very early 90s, doesn't it? Yeah. And I think this kind of busy mosaic design style, I think it's coming back.

I think this like minimalist, dark metal, dark wood, Johnny Rockets shit is on its way out. Look, I hope not. I hope it lasts forever. Lindsay and I went like seven years ago to that restaurant. Yeah. And there was a giant rock in the tank. And all of a sudden we realized it was a turtle and it moved and we were delighted. And that's the magic of the living seas.

That's right. And then we looked down and we just ate a dead fish off of a plate. Okay, that's the conundrum of the Living Seas. That's the paradox of the Living Seas. Of course. Yes. Should we say some basics about it before we... Sure. This is partially on my mind because the last time we did an Epcot attraction was Horizons.

A friend, question mark, of the the show nick mundy uh listened to the episode hadn't heard an episode in a while and then gave me the feedback it's like you're speaking a foreign language like you're speaking spanish i don't know what the hell you're talking about so now i've got mundy just like with a fist in his hand behind me in my head uh telling me to explain what the rides are i think we did did fairly well. I don't know. What do you like? Is Monday in line there? What do you think? I think he texted and criticized the episode to me as well.

He'd have to look if he's if he's like running around town, like doing errands, like sometimes he will give me a phone call while he's doing that. And then he was also listening and like he's at like a grocery store and they're like saying mr mundy here's your order and he's trying like you're not gonna you're not gonna pick up on what horizons is it's too weird it's too ethereal it's too like yeah if he was sitting down listening intently then i would be a little more concerned i'm guessing though if we if we sat him down and said okay we'll explain it to you it's a ride that offers different visions of

what the future might be hopeful visions brought to you by general like how quickly would he just like turn to his phone or leave the room or uh punch us in the jaw yeah he would just there would be an urge to just put our head in a toilet or pull our underwear up uh hard from our back of our pants, he wouldn't be able to resist that or throw a dodgeball at our head. A dodgeball would sort of materialize in his hand, and he would whip it at our head. He's still trying to solve the problem of fire bad. So we got to tell.

It's like, no, it's not always bad. There's different. It's very useful in some occasions. Mundy is a Frankenstein. Yeah, that's what that is. It's a caveman. I think it's what Jason is calling him. Jason, as usual, has taken Scott and I's good-natured ribbing up to an 11.

All the way up the hydrolator. Jason wants to, look, in wrestling you gotta keep building up the feud, you know? And Jason wants to build that feud up for when Mundy comes back on the show, and I appreciate that. He's working an angle. That's what he's doing. I can only hope.

I can only hope he puts me through a table. He puts me through an announcer's table. I will double mask if we figure out a way for Mundy to put me through a table. He puts me through an announcer's table. I will double mask if we figured out a way for Monday to put me through a table in these trying times. There was talk at the Orlando live show of Matt Cardona putting you through something, but it didn't materialize. So hopefully that happens at a certain point on one of these shows. I thought it was supposed to be, I hit him with a chair.

We talked about that. We talked about scenarios but i talked about scenarios yeah there were a couple scenarios and yeah for sure sure one of them was you taking a bump of some kind yeah um okay but monday will be monday will be the one the untrained the non-trained wrestler will be the one to hurt you that's fine uh but no back to he he makes a very fair point yes we should we should uh uh full-on explain we should make sure we're still doing that it's good to refresh the basics it's good to get back to basics you know he's the way he told us to do the podcast and now he has a new note for us and i want to

make good um the godfather of the podcast uh notes um one helpful's Godfather of the Year. One helpful thing I think about this attraction is that at the time that it was built, it was based around what was then the largest saltwater tank on Earth, which is full of aquatic animals. So it is a lot of attractions based around that. So the restaurant you guys are talking about about the Coral Reef Restaurant, that is a restaurant where you had a view of the creatures in the tank as you ate fish, bizarrely. But the primary illusion that it's trying to create is not just like an aquarium, here you're going to go look at the tank. It's that you are actually going to a sea base,

a futuristic sea base, which you're led to believe is underwater. And so there's various forms of transport that take you all the way, not just like a couple feet away, but in theory, like far, far down and far, many leagues under the sea, if you will, to this fully immersed underwater sea base. It isn't fully immersed. That was kind of the intent initially, but now it's just built around this giant tank

and with lots of amazing views of it. Yes. So it is basically, there's an Omnimover-like Haunted Mansion ride system, and there's a big aquarium with a restaurant. That's the simple version. Mostly it's a big aquarium with a restaurant that's the simple version mostly it's a big aquarium there's people that work in there tending to the fish

there's little shows there's information their stuff has changed over the years but that's sort of the basic they have like fish and aquatic life that have like been harmed that they're rehabilitating yeah which we saw last time we were there big variety that have been harmed at the rehabilitating. Yeah.

Dolphin sharks. Big variety. Manatees. You got rays. You got all kinds of cool stuff, which was my takeaway being there last year was, well, you just forget how great this is. Just the base. Just like, oh yeah,

within this day at Epcot that's always cool where you experience a lot of things like oh like here's the stint of the day where you see just a lot of cool animals it's very neat yeah and it's yes it's obviously years before animal kingdom but it is like similar in this it's the same idea where they they were like oh shit we have to get a ton of people who know what they're doing to maintain a giant aquarium with a variety of fish and and marine life uh yeah if you watch the there's a national geographic series about animal kingdom on disney plus and they they do have to go to the living seas a lot to like of the manatees, they're worried he's ill

or he ate something he shouldn't have. So sometimes they needed to transport sea life from the living seas to Animal Kingdom because that's where they have extra animal care stuff. Although there are plenty of marine biologists and and such working at the living seas it's a real like licensed and certified uh rescue center and aquarium yeah um so that is what it is basically still now that's what it was a ploddier aquarium really ultimately most aquariums don't have stories in this one.

That's true. Yeah, this one does more so. Could we start with what it might have been? Yeah, that was interesting to me to discover the version that didn't get built. Yeah, I knew none of this. I did not know it either. It's pretty well documented in the Martins vids. They have more concept art and model pictures than I have seen.

And it sounds like this version would have been insane and amazing. I like what they did fine. I shouldn't even say that. I like what they did. But this version, oh boy, do I wish this was done. They pull off the educational aspect of it. It's definitely interesting to go there, but with all the bells and whistles,

I think it would have been a lot more satisfying as a theme park attraction. Yes. And as soon as I heard that Poseidon was involved in the original version, I was like, oh shit. What? Why does Poseidon was involved in the original version. I was like, oh shit, what? Why does Poseidon get cut? Even like a low grade Poseidon in the current version, I would have been like still pretty happy with. But-

Big tease, I know some, I started unraveling why does Poseidon get cut? And the answer is pretty nefarious it uh it goes and goes and uh you'll see but let's let's talk about the fun uh first yeah um so i guess the yeah the original was very much more like like um simulating that underwater base like a cool dome underwater like whatever i guess pace is really what it what it is um but it opened with a pre-show where you were like challenged by poseidon the sea lord who were like just like dare you to just like taunt the ocean yeah like he like you're in the middle of a raging sea storm and he stops it with a wave of his hand and like start eggs you on he's like only the bravest explorers would explore the

sea yeah um which it's funny because like you were still going to sea base alpha which was very much like a scythe like more science fiction like this emphasis on the science than it is like on the fan science fantasy or something but if you go on this today it's extremely clinical by by theme park standards so it's almost and like set probably in the not too distant future it's all technology we have but if it was super polished you're going into sequest you're going to sequest dsv basically yes i think it's in set in the 2030s or something i don't know maybe i'm pulling that out of my butt um so yeah strange that we would like this definition of the seas involves that the seas are controlled by a man

by a giant man by a giant magic man which yeah it does it's sort of like the original idea of epcot was very much like i mean they have like uh you know imagination which obviously is not necessarily rooted in science but a lot of it yeah it was science space so i'm i am curious and maybe scott you have more information like what their thinking was behind this but man it would have been all it would have been awesome i will say that and the technology was going to be that you sat in this theater he challenges you and then the theater would

rotate 180 degrees to a load a very ornate loading station where you would then board an omni mover yeah like a yellow yeah like a yellow brick road of coral. Like, just coral everywhere.

We have not talked about fake coral a lot on this show. Hmm. And how is that different than fake rock? And does it count as fake rock? I mean, someone listening is going to know the distinction better than us. But coral didn't't if it counts as fake rock it didn't really fare great in the fake rock final four though i think that the disney sea ariel's grotto area is really fantastic and you know probably you know didn't make it in there

but it could have could have been a squeaker but i think i think somebody will be able to tell us like oh you're missing all these great pieces of fake coral in the theme parks. And maybe eventually one day when we have all this gathered, we can do a fake coral Final Four. Perhaps. I'd love to gather enough. Yes. Let's give coral its due.

Fake coral. Good fake coral in the Fry's Electronics in, I forget the city now. It's in San Diego County. But they're, yeah, really good fake coral game there. And then obviously fake coral on the Nemo subs in Disneyland. You know? I think fake coral is in more places if you look.

Yeah. If your heart is open to it. If your heart is open to it. If your heart is open to it. I just want to shout out before we move on from Poseidon, just his line about if we can part the waves of understanding. I mean, this is my like this highfalutin Poseidon language and that he is called Poseidon the Sea Lord. I mean, obviously, Poseidon was done to its full theme park extent in Islands of Adventure with Poseidon the Sea Lord. I mean, obviously Poseidon was done to its full theme park extent in Islands of Adventure

with Poseidon's Fury ultimately. I was also trying to remember if Poseidon factors into the Caesar's Palace mall statue show, which is called Fall of Atlantis. And Poseidon is referenced, like it's all kind of his

shadow looms over the events of Fall of Atlantis, but he's not one of the statues. Poseidon is referenced like it's all kind of his shadow looms over the events of fall of Atlantis but Poseidon is not here he called in sick today let us do his bidding what would Poseidon have done yeah WWPD

he so Poseidon I mean I just want more Poseidon in general if possible it's a property anybody can grab because it's um it's mythology i don't think anyone can own poseidon right no one can own me so like yes we like we can have poseidon on the show regularly too like poseidon and the sector keeper show up together maybe oh it's my friend poseidon. Yes, I am friends with this young ghost boy. I don't know why he's like Hercules or something,

but in my version. If one of the three of us had more energy, maybe Poseidon could be with us here today. Yeah, I'm very tired though, you know? I wasn't prepared. All too tired to summon Poseidon. I mean, if you force me. Why, boys!

Never mind. Hang on. I'm gonna go rest. I love it. I'm gonna take a bath. Mike's new character, Reluctant Poseidon. Yes, here I am. I'm here and good to meet you, Jason.

Poseidon who's still stressed out about the impeachment hearings, I think. With a wave of my hand, I could part the sea, but only 10 Republicans. After that, after the attack on still only 10, I just kill her. I don't. The Trident feels extra heavy to me today. Oh, why don't they just do the inauguration in the Oval Office? Oh, come on.

Why does it have to be outside? Do it tomorrow for Will's Breakwood tradition. I love tradition. I'm 10,000 years old. I'm sure they'd give you the Zoom without a time limit if you just ask. Oh, I'm trying to get the vaccine, but it is just not available. The federal government should have done a better job coordinating it nationwide. Can I not summon with my hand from the sea just a vile amount of it?

Just fill up a needle? That's all Poseidon wants. I guess two. It's going to be a double dose. Four weeks apart. I'm not lord of the vaccine I'll tell you that that's uh

vexinus that's my brother vexinus many do not believe in vexinus they are fools vexinus is good we have him now as an IP we have to trademark him yeah yeah he'll show up soon.

Anyway, yeah, he parts. I don't know. There was a curtain of water, potentially, that was going to happen. This seemed great. And it's funny. This happens to us in attractions sometimes where there's just this phantom feeling like there should have been something. Like, why isn't this our favorite thing from our childhoods?

And I feel like poseidon is the answer yeah he's a missing piece i think for sure yeah and there there are yeah i think maybe we've talked about this before it's like figment looms so large in that and obviously the right because he's the star of the right he does a lot but if it's like maybe if they had just positioned some other new original characters on some of these rides they could have lasted longer and been more of a big deal to kids brains but then it still retained their sort of educational

nature I'd say even as a kid though I kind of liked Epcot days because I knew it was just a different it was a different vibe there was like you know I didn't I was a nerdy little child I liked the educational aspect I liked was like, you know, I didn't, I was a nerdy little child. I liked the educational aspect. I liked the different, like, you know, vibes of the pavilions and the attractions and stuff.

And like, especially like Magic Kingdom, like trying to pack stuff in or even MGM Studios at its height had quite a bit to try and do in a day. Sure. I just mean like, yeah, for me, which i also loved going to epcot it's just i just my brain isn't that clear on remembering some of these things like i don't have those childhood memories that are so strong like a few of the other places in epcot and then of course the magic kingdom yeah what i remember is i was scared all day in epcot it was all scary giant um what's the architectural, brutalist

architecture, I think is the term, and that makes sense. All the buildings scared me in a way that I love. I think about the buildings non-style. I love all the architecture. But like, not only that, it's all, like, as I've said, none of my friends are here. I'm probably not going to see Mickey or anybody. I'm going to see lots

of like upset bearded adults, whether that be Jules Verne or, and this could have been Poseidon, the most upset, biggest bearded adult. Constantly. Scott, little Scott, your friends aren't here for you. Your friends can't help you now. You have dared rattle the sea.

I didn't do anything. I'm seven. And you, little Michael, I can tell you don't buy it Michael I can tell you don't buy it I can tell you don't believe this shit I want you to believe it And throws water at me So hydrolator

It's cool you saw the bubbles go You went deep as far as you know What else do you want The other thing I think This takes us into the next area of the thing but i also this is another epcot attraction with like rides through dark corridors almost every one of them is a slow moving vehicle through a dark tunnel i think that like i can't remember how dark

and tunnel-y world of motion was but but I bet Fairly So Horizons definitely. Universe of Energy isn't so claustrophobic, but it's extremely dark a lot of the time. Spaceship Earth, very dark. And then the sea cabs were pretty much like, I mean, I guess you had the glow, but aquariums are dark. Water's dark.

Yeah. Again, it's all aesthetically like the same. It's like one thing bleeds into another. It's like, which concept album did we say Epcot is like? Abbey Road? The second half of Abbey Road? Second half of Abbey Road. Maybe like a wizard. Todd Rundgren's A Wizard, A True Star.

Kind of blends. Bless you, yes. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Each one bleeds into the next. Yeah, you're not sure where one ends and the next begins. I don't think, is there a Kiss album like that for Monday that I could throw in here? Oh, how do we... Yes.

How do we frame this Kiss concept album? Yeah, you're right. That's the key to... Well, I don't know the album, but it looks like they have an album called Music from the Elder. It's more... Oh, okay. This is maybe their concept album.

So, Monday, if you're listening, and the answer is probably no, the Living Seas, or actually Epcot in general, is like music from The Elder. Got it? Perfect. Perfect. Is it like, didn't they all do, there was a day where each one released a solo album without makeup on? Am I conflating things with that?

That's right. Yeah. For sure, the makeup off period in the 80s, and maybe this is... We'll know if Money listened to it, because I probably just got that wrong. He'll call and yell at me. But yeah, there was some... Yeah.

They had to do some gimmicks. I don't know theme park equivalent of solo albums without the makeup, but what's like... Is it like Ambition? Is that Islands of Adventure or something? Like untrodden territory uh-huh yeah that's good um so yeah we're we're we're losing my train of thought i'm also just like by the way the the the elder saw music from the elder has a character named morpheus in it wow really yeah yeah there's a lot going on. Maybe I need to check out the boy.

It's just long tracks. One's called The Oath. One's called Escape from the Island. I mean, this sounds potentially dreadful, but again, I don't want to lose Mundy or any Kiss fans listening. He's tried to get us way into Kiss for a long time, which I'm not against Kiss. I like some

of the songs, but I've not gotten the whole thing about Kiss. But obviously the pageantry and the nonsense we would like. And the merch, of course. But maybe this is our way in. That's what I'm saying. I'm scared of the tracks of World Without Heroes

and Odyssey. As much as I'd like to meet their Morpheus. I mean, is it probably right-wing propaganda from Gene Simmons? Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. He might not have turned in 81 yet. I don't know.

That's possible. Anyways, the turning, that's what the theater does, turns 180 degrees. All turns. And then you end up in this hypothetical version of the vehicle that would have taken you into the attraction. As Jason said, it was a more of a, or Mike said, it was an Omnimover. That's what it is today. It's like the clamshells that take you into the sea base. But they initially envisioned like a much longer ride more like a 10 minute ride

where you're in clear bubbles i think jim hill described them as pearls you're inside clear pearls and you're going through clear tubes so as you're passing through this tank you are now much more immersed in like you could be just you know a couple inches away from a shark like you have the like the full beauty of the tank and you're in it and the danger of what if there was a leak or something yeah and that was so yeah there was a tank but then it was like show scenes plan too and i think there was like a planned maybe like animal i don't there's not a picture of it but i think it was a shark attack planned of some kind uh and then you would run into poseidon again like there's in the martin's vids there's pictures of all the little like scenes from like a big model

on a table it's kind of hard to see which is which but all you can tell just be like oh you go through a bunch of very detailed show scenes it does it reminds me a little bit of how they did 20 000 leagues at to at Tokyo DisneySea. But it's not the same ride system. Oh, yeah, where it is not... Maybe there's sections of it that are not fully underwater, but you're using lighting effects and mist and bubbles and stuff to fake that you are underwater. Right.

And 20,000 Leagues has to have fake coral, obviously. Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, that's true. I would have to imagine. I think that's really epic. right i mean that and 20 000 links has to have fake coral obviously oh yeah well yeah i would have to imagine yeah so um i think that's really epic like the entrance to the what is this base and the concept art that you look at it just seemed like so much grander than than where they yes yeah the the i mean i i just love the painterly kind of like paperback book cover almost of like a lot of the early epcot concept art and the base itself really looks a lot like um sea lab 2020 in terms of pods with like walkways

between it all right oh totally which i i think that was very very popular at the time very future looking at the time like sea bases and biospheres I think right I don't know when the biosphere one and biosphere two I think came a little later yeah I mean it's it's very start even Star Trek obviously in space but it's very the vibe of sort of especially I think the

first Star Trek movie it's a little bit like 2001 inspired. I feel like in its, I guess partly because like the music and the tone, it all feels a little unnerving or a lot unnerving depending on which part of the pre-show or which part or which art you're looking at. But there is something kind of odd and eerie about all of it too. It's not like, yay, we're underwater and it's a utopian city it's kind of like research is done here with the depths of the sea where anything can happen anything horrible can happen well yeah it feels like the setup for like this is the it it's like the it's the first third of i don't know the abyss or the I don't know, the abyss or the thing.

Especially the abyss because it's underwater. Or aliens. Settle in here to this place where most of your friends will die. It really... Yeah, it's crazy. Here, I'm just going to do this right now uh this is the pre-show movie for the actual uh living seas and i'm sure you guys watched it it is so freaking scary yeah did you did you watch it yeah i yeah it's like and then rises back to the ocean floor as a superheated mineral-laden fluid

emitting what to us would be lethal concentrations of poisonous chemicals. Yet, incredibly, around these strange vents, exotic lifeforms flourish. I mean, there's like, there's like, I feel like I hear like stabs in there of like a violin, like in a horror movie. Like there's, it's scored in such a way to freak the fuck out of you. It's like John Carpenter didn't direct it, but he scored it. They brought him in just for music, just to make it extra unnerving. Yes. just for music just to make it extra unnerving yes i think i think that's by the way i think that's awesome but i am interested at the at the choice because there's not even there's never a

part of it where it's fully resolved in like a major chord it's never like uh and here's c base alpha it's like better music it's like happier sounding music when they reveal like the the schematic of c base alpha but it never resolves itself it never makes you feel like oh and now like better music it's like happier sounding music when they reveal like the the schematic of c-base alpha but it never resolves itself it never makes you feel like oh and now everything's going to be fine no it's very haunting ethereal and almost pushing experimental and it's very funny to think about when you think about the sponsor uh united technologies now a division of the raytheon company uh spent 90 million dollars on this pavilion like this major corporate sponsor and like this is how it starts with this weird like there's no characters there's no people right in that video they were barely any animals

it's mostly the sea and storms and nature and uh yeah i think it's funny i i liked it as a kid i was a little scared and i think if something was just slightly different in the tilt of the world i would have leaned into like what other movies are kind of scary like that instead of like get leaned into like mgm studios of like where can i get a copy of singing in the rain there was so much scariness at epcot because this is i forgot there was even a movie in this thing but of course it makes me think of the post maelrom Norway film, which is very severe and banging on iron. And the Malestrom itself, where you dive into a storm and flaming oil barracks.

So much of Epcot was scary, and scary in a real-world way. It's not alien-encounter scary scary it's not sci-fi scary it's the world you're in is a scary place yes scott back back over the falls you know it's such a it's such a ball it's a ball see the word it's such an ah it's odd but also like i think that's what the creative the imagineering people were going for that's the idea um yeah it was not supposed to be a fully friendly place besides figment and i guess it's just still an odd swing because i mean i i don't really know the history of when epcot was was struggling or if that was the calculation at the time or that it had to be like fixed or injected with energy or more.

Like it does seem like there was an era where it didn't quite land. And I like I don't know, like was did like a ton of adults want to go experience things about, like, steel and flames and disasters? Like, was this what people really wanted? I'm not, and I, like, I'm obsessed with Epcot. I hope none of this sounds super negative. But it just, like, I don't know, were people jazzed ever on the living seas movie like that rules well yeah that's a good question i mean i'm sure like you know that it was a giant aquarium it was the biggest aquarium i think in the world for a little while right like before the georgia

aquarium um uh yeah like sorry go did you have this oh i was gonna yeah i have it it's a 5.7 million gallon uh uh tank and that's not counting like the filtering tanks or the prep tanks uh and for a long time it was technically the largest saltwater aquarium in the world until that georgia aquarium opened a few years ago um so likehmm. So, like, a dad would like, I feel like a dad likes to go to the aquarium. Yeah. An 80s, 90s dad, oh, we'll go to the aquarium and take a look at the fish. So he would like that.

Mm-hmm. But I don't know if he wanted to watch the scary film strip beforehand. That's what, or, like, I mean, you see still, I mean, it's gone now, but you saw when the Maelstrom was open, people just, like, sprint mean, you see still, I mean, it's gone now, but you saw when the Maelstrom was open, people just like sprint out of the theater so they did not have to watch the post-ride movie. Because I feel like some of my Epcot obsession is with things that didn't super resonate with people.

Like, that's what resonates with me, is that it's this extremely expensive theme park where there's huge swaths of it that I think scared people or even bored people or just unnerved people. I hope I'm not sounding anti-epic. It's all that stuff that I'm obsessed with. Yeah, I think I said on the Universe of Energy, when Lindsay and I went on it a couple days before it closed forever, the guy next to us fell asleep on it. Within 10, I think 10 to 15 minutes, he was asleep on Universe of Energy. And that has to happen all day long with that ride for its whole existence. That was one of the reasons my dad liked that ride.

People like little break, little sleepy break rides. It gets so hot in Florida, you need to take a rest at some point. You're not going to get to take a break when Rocket Raccoon is shouting on you on a roller coaster. That's not going to happen. You can't take a little nap that way. Yeah. I mean, I think there was different metrics of success back then. I think as the 80s went along, you start to see the rise of the Wall Street era of, like, we've got to keep the shareholders happy. But at least when Epcot started,

there was an intent of education, of let's do something different. Let's play with people's expectations. Let's edutainment that sort of thing. And you also saw all these corporate sponsors seem to be in line with that. And I don't i don't know that companies ever fully had tact but i feel like i don't know i think stuff is more

craven nowadays of like well we've got to hit the four quadrants and we've got to get the characters in there and the characters have to appeal to these squad you know yeah yeah i mean it is a joke like there's a reason that there was a joke and i guess still remains a joke that epcot is boring and it sucks and i don't hold that opinion but there's a reason that joke exists that's in the culture i think it's going away i do think it's in a similar way though to an album That's underappreciated It's first 20 years It's like your McCartney Ram It's your McCartney 1 and 2 Where people go what the hell is this

This isn't as good as the Beatles And then 30 years later You go oh I see what he was doing A lot of this stuff is great And now you want everything to be like that again Do more stuff like that And not like For You His song with Ryan Ted tedder even though i

kind of like the song for you um i don't know what the i don't know what the theme park equivalent of for you is uh a new manager yeah tiki room under new management yeah maybe um so uh there was this grand vision of what it was going to be. And I don't really know what happened when you got to the base. I think that all might have been sort of similar. But there was certainly a much more ornate, attraction-ified intro to this ride. I guess with that, should we talk about what did end up being there? Or what was the experience pre the Nemo infusion? Yeah.

Yes, of course. I mean, there was a standing... I kind of always forgot about this. There was like a standing kind of slideshow pre-show early on that was also pretty weird and ethereal. There was the Q the Q had a lot of artifacts about sea exploration

sea adventuring and yeah and then the like other element pre-hydro later is that movie Mike that you played a little snippet of which was like a sit down theater right

scary movie terrifying movie terrifying movie and you played a little snippet of, which was like a sit-down theater. Right. Scary movie. Terrifying movie. Terrifying movie. And, I mean, it is very much set up like, yeah, like a movie you would have seen in school. But it has, yeah, the score of a horror film. It's so similar in tone to the thing I keep bringing up,

the weird Philadelphia 1776 movie that was so that was very frightening and yet my mom made my class watch it and it had to be said mrs gardner provided this film yeah any chance to watch a vid scott i would have been sending your mother a thank you note probably i that's true i'm forgetting that aspect yeah it gave people a chance to nap just as the living seas movie give dads a chance to nap and let's not forget this added benefit of epcot if you took a trip to disney world during the school year and you had to make up some bullshit that it was educational you're in the bag with epcot baby you you do a little summary of your days at epcot done that is a good point yeah i hadn't thought of that you could justify like if you paid attention you can learn something i mean obviously the greater

lesson here is that humans can mess up the earth all they want, but the earth will win. I mean, that's the message of this film strip itself is that like the, the sea will win. The sea is going to get all of us and there's nothing we can do about it. No question. The sea runs the show, baby. Now, please enter the sea.

Now, please. You've been reminded that the sea will kill you. It will kill you. It kill you it will kill your great great great great great grandchildren at a certain point to reset the earth after all of you monsters fucked it up but anyway here's a fun omnimover and we're gonna kill you right now if you like aren't careful on a boat or something yep we're being reminded of that right now in january 2021 with the revival of sea shanty uh tiktok everyone's doing a collaborative sea shanty singing very why this is one of the

thrilling people started singing sea shanties on tiktok and then there's this duet feature where then you can sing along and then people it's like picture and picture and picture and everyone's singing along I saw someone online positing that like oh we we've been distancing ourselves from each other and this this was a way this is like songs that were simple and could

be sung without accompaniment and so like it's a way to keep connected it's the revival everyone's into sea shanties all of a sudden i didn't understand the ratatouille musical stuff but i i'm here for old sea shanties coming back no i also zoned out when anything ratatouille musical showed up everyone seemed like they're having a blast godspeed god bless i'm not mad at it or anything i just was like okay what you just said jason about tiktok i think that's that maybe sums up my feelings everyone seems like they're having a blast you

guys you have fun not for me beware if i showed up i got the dad pass now i'm not gonna learn about any app until my son is on one and then i can make fun of uh whatever he's doing on it and we can have a combative relationship about the app until then no apps for me that's a good point you are a dad now so we're gonna have to start maybe it's just because you didn't grow up in the northeast of america yeah we're gonna have to get you into some tall ships soon we're gonna have to start getting you into some nautical history stuff it's time oh no i guess today is the day we're talking about the seas well a lot Well, a lot of our favorite characters and personalities love the sea. Like, you know, your Popeyes, your Jimmy Buffetts.

Yeah. Those are my favorite characters. Well, I'm scared of Popeye. Popeye looks weird. The movie's scary. I always try to watch it because I think it'll be interesting. I watched it for the podcast because I like Popeye Village. And then I'm still just like, just like this movie. Get me away

from the sea. Poseidon would be furious at me. Captain Jack Sparrow also. Guy on the sea. No, of course I'm a Jack Sparrow, Stan. Ride or die. And you know whatever's going on with the actor

playing him, that's not for me to know i i'm concerned about the character yeah yeah i don't know one thing i don't know the actor's name who plays him i don't know i just i love jack sparrow and that's what i love yeah okay of course his uncle who's in jail or whatever that is i don't know that actor either he looks a lot like that guy who sings for you he's got like a dad that looks like the guy who plays guitar on satisfaction as well again i don't know any of these names yeah i don't either um okay so scary movie and then and well then we go to the hydrolators let's talk hydrolators uh i mean what's there not to say about the hydrolators what's there it mimics an elevator

it's the same kind of trick basically they do with um the haunted mansion in florida where like you're stationary but the walls are like sort of going up a little different because you're you're looking through windows at water and rocks and those kind of move and stuff um um i now uh i guess jason you might put this in the category of that i that i bought it that i bought the illusion i don't think i had done a hydrolator since i was a child but as far as i knew that was descending i honestly didn't know until this research that that was a still room with effects. I truly didn't know that. With like a little rumbling floor and lights flickering.

And did you guys come across the urban legend about the lawsuit, the fake? It's bullshit. Yes. So the apocryphal tale, and it like uh yesterland uh kind of traced it traced it back to like marty sklar in an interview one explanation he's kind of tossed this out and it was like a joke going around and then it became the tour guides were telling it and it's an apocryphal story that a woman tried to sue dis or a man. It changes every time, uh,

that, Oh, my ear drums pursed it, the pressure drop in the hydrolators. And then the jury and the judge went to like Disney imaginaries, like, come look at this. And they opened both hydrolated doors and then they immediately threw out

the case. Uh, this clearly never, this didn't happen. Like, okay. Okay. so that's just urban legend that they like to to build up um i heard an interview with uh one of the main imagineers behind this tim delaney uh on the i think he's been on season pass but he's on this podcast

tomorrow society shout out to them um he people's on this podcast, Tomorrow Society. Shout out to them. On this podcast, he presented the story as real, but maybe he's still keeping up the urban legend, and maybe that's what Marty Sklar was doing, too. But I honestly was listening to the story, and that was where I found out. Like, oh, wait, it didn't move? I really didn't know that. Yeah.

Tim Delaney's very cool. I mean, this interview is great. Any interview I've heard of him is great. And if people don't know this special about the making of Space Mountain Paris where you follow him from imaginary back and forth to Paris while he puts this

attraction together which is the first launch coaster and it's the first coaster with onboard audio and it seems like this guy Tim sort of thought of some of that stuff or was really pushing for it Tim Delaney very cool and I think he's he really pushing for it. Anyway, Tim Delaney, very cool. And I think he's responsible for a lot of the cool stuff in this attraction and that concept art, like how amazing the exterior looked when this thing opened was Tim Delaney.

Interesting. I'm interested to know now if he's keeping up the Disney kayfabe as far as lawsuits are concerned. Maybe. I mean, it's the story that proves how well the illusion worked that people bought it that woman that hypothetical woman bought it can i i i don't want this to turn into a 30 minute tangent but i want to ask you guys something since we're talking about kayfabe and whether something is real or bullshit do you guys think that disney funerals website is real

do you think that's a bit do you know what i'm talking about this was going around like a week or two ago i know something about this but i don't know maybe enough to comment on it i i tweeted like a reaction or a joke to it but i it was like about how like if you're a real like parks like we'll we can we figured out a way to put theme park loops in your coffin and like the characters who we can't say which characters will like kiss you goodbye, like kiss your coffin as it, before it's lowered. And it was like a very janky website. This was going around this like hit regular,

like kind of, yeah. Magical pass, magical passings.com. I, I, I think it's, I'm conflicted.com I think it's I'm conflicted because I think

the reasons I think it's real are like regular people don't know the phrase theme park loops and no one else no one in theme park world is as funny as we are so like this website is pretty like darkly humorous

like going bold again i think that is a lukewarm take uh i don't think that's yeah but i this kind of went around like like comedians were making fun of it on twitter too and i was just like i don't i don't know if this is real or fake my choice of by the way, the theme park music would be played in the coffin, but also played from the gravestone so all the dead and mourners would need to hear it would be the music from the Tapestry of Nations parade. So that is how I haunt the living.

I have seen this, but I haven't done enough investigating. I will give a ruling maybe next time we record. Okay. I'll investigate. Wait, it says at the bottom. I'm sorry to not keep the end, but I just saw it. This site is made satirical and a parry site.

No actual services are performed. Yeah, there you go. It's the end of you, magicalpassings.com. I guess an interesting thought, though. Wait, how long does this loop play forever in theory for eternity and if it's fake

well gotta go with droid rooms from Star Tours I'll say this I'm a little unnerved now cause who who that's funny has entered the arena of theme park media. I know. I have to tip my hat then to

whoever made this site. The specifics were very good, but they tipped it by going, we can't post a phone number here. We've been harassed when we've posted it before. I think that was the real clue. That's a good bit, so shout out to whoever that is. Yeah.

This seems pretty well done from what I could tell, but not real. We figured it out. Yeah. Back to something that can kill you, the briny depths of the sea. Yeah. Hydrolators, they don't move.

It's a Disney tricky elevator. Much like the Haunted Mansion in Florida, where in that one, the ground doesn't move. Wait, is it similar to the one the elevator in Tokyo DisneySea on Journey? I was going to bring that up. I think that we talked

about them. Doesn't it move up? I think it's actually taking you up even though the idea is that you're moving down to the center of the earth but i don't really know the geography i apologize someone's yelling of course at the podcast not monday it's somebody else i know which way it goes and you don't we'll look at when we do the episode when jason goes to japan jason will you go to j Japan right after you get the vaccine, please? I was trying to figure out if I'm going to Japan

or I'm going to Europe. I keep going back and forth. Let's go to Japan. We have a ride we need to do. I know. I guess that's the one. Four days. Go four days.

Because then we could do an entire year about Japan. We need to do Sinbad. We need to do Journey. We need to do... Oh, my God. We can get so much material out of you going to japan oh i mean jaws is just going going i was gonna joke because we were

talking about roadie roadie would likely um to sacrifice going to a theme park to do some cultural experiences and i'm the opposite i'll probably end up missing a couple cultural experiences just to ride jaws again but uh, I mean, look, as soon as I can get that vaccine and stuff, I'll probably go to Florida as soon as I get the vaccine. If we have anyone in the government listening, please put Jason on a high priority list.

If you could change Jason's age in the computer to 75, that would be helpful. Use his mental age. Yeah, use my temperament age we'll get him on a plane like next week we can get this vaccine going off his interests he's 75

sea shanties educational theme parks favorite character is Popeye tall ships I saw a lot of tall ships as a kid guys theme parks. Favorite character is Popeye. Tall ships. I saw a lot of tall ships as a kid, guys. Jason on a train napping while Mount Fuji goes by, and then he wakes up at Universal Studios.

Beautiful. This is beautiful. Okay, we get out of the hydrolators, which didn't actually take anywhere and uh we get on to the sea cabs now here with the sea cabs is where we get some some contention going um so uh yeah as we've said this this ended up what could have been a 10 minute pretty grand trip into an underwater bubble ended up being sort of a, a trip through a corridor on Omni movers.

Um, it's three minutes long. It's, um, you know, you do get cool views of the tank and depend, you know, if you watch old videos of it,

you see scuba divers and you see cool animals and that's, that's all great. Um, however, so I hadn't, I didn't really have strong feelings about the the c-cabs either way um but uh let me do some history of when the first time that my wife erin and i discussed uh epcot um i uh she now today i basically i had to like convince her like oh actually there's this

whole thing with epcot where it's like it's this early 80s aesthetic and it's really locked in time and there were all these bizarre you know insanely long all the stuff we've been talking about uh um so and i got her on board and she loves epcot and wears an epcot shirt all the time we're all big epcot heads but when i the first time i ever brought it up like what i was like what do you think about epcot and she's like oh is that the place with the sea cabs i was like oh that's your main takeaways the sea cabs and she said yeah well my family went there when i was in high school and we're just we like first of all we're confused by the map just like where are the rides like you know can you imagine this is where we get into dad and i'll pin this on uh um her her father who's great uh but like he's looking at the he's you know he came

from magic kingdom where like there's a picture of a roller coaster. Here's another picture of a roller coaster. Now we're looking at pavilions and the land and wonders of life. What are you talking? And I, you don't see any like drawings of rides anywhere. So like, I don't know, let's take a stab at it. Let's go to the living seas. You get in an elevator that doesn't go anywhere.

Then you get on the sea cabs. You're like, okay, here we go. We're on a ride. The ride is over in three minutes. The ride is mostly dark. It is on the sea cabs you're like okay here we go we're on a ride the ride is over in three minutes the ride is mostly dark it is called the sea cabs everyone is like sea cabs and they just grumbled about that name all day this sucks you want to leave yeah let's go back to the magic kingdom they went back to the magic kingdom and that was it they left epcot center they were so mad at the sea cabs and that is where it loomed for aaron's family for a long time yeah it's like i mean it's like going hey you know i love the beatles i'm putting on

this new paul mccarney album ram and you go like let's just flip around oh ram on it's like this like weird sounding ukulele song huh well never mind let's go back let's go just listen to let it be what are we doing here that's maybe kind of the feel that's maybe the feel and now have i told that story and in telling that story have i made aaron into a villain of this podcast much like nick mundy you've made if i damned aaron i swear she figured it out loves epcot we love epcot we spent so much time at epcot last time we were there no i think that's a good example of like the difficulty when theme park designers are like let's try something different let's try something new i'll say this i love the navi river journey and i think it's rare like but that is trying to achieve like serenity right like it's trying to evoke a feeling of

of peace and relaxation and in the middle of the hottest theme park in florida with these like giant wait times uh for the attraction right above us that is a bit of a contrast to try and get people to go like well now try a theme park ride about peace with nature. You know, that is a little bit of a hard sell. Yeah, but I don't know if it's a hard sell as much. First of all, Scott, I want to say I don't think Erin's a villain. You have made her father into a podcast to ride villain, though.

Apparently so. I will not say his legal name for that reason. Right. But I think with Navi River Journey, that's still a lot more clear. It's like if Navi River Journey, that's still a lot more clear. It's like if Navi River Journey was like the Living Seas Pavilion, there would be like 10 different ways to get in. One door led you to a place where you would eat the Navi. Another door led you to a place where you'd go on a ride to see a Navi.

Another ride that like another door you would like just get to the exit of the of the river journey like it's i think it's more in the explanation and the confusion than it is and the expectation of what something a disney park might be as opposed to the actual ride experience itself it was like living ceases an aquarium it's a cool aquarium with a little tiny fun ride i think then you know what to expect versus like hey we went to like we went we went on pirates of the caribbean it's like nine minutes it's awesome it's got so many robots and then you go in here and you go what the hell is what we were in like a haunted mansion ride vehicle for

three minutes and we saw some fish, but what? Why would we? There's pirates. You don't take the mini ships to the main vessel, which is your transit to the final pirate island, where there are six different pirate exhibits that you can break off and experience. So I have to imagine it's confusing

because like a lot of those places have pre like post shows with stuff to do and i know they expanded some of that as it went on and i remember even kind of as a kid being a little unclear i do remember confusion about exactly where a ride started and what i remember that it's not nearly as clear as you know going to the magic kingdom and just going and here's the line for this thing right you would like end up in a pavilion sorry yeah and then you'd be like oh i guess we're at the exit of a ride to me that note the thing that you said jason about like there isn't the core attraction it's like a bunch of different experiences. That's, like, not super successful to me here,

because I think, like, with the other, I think I like that in the other Epcot pavilions, there is, like, there's the other stuff that you do, but it is Universe of Energy, the ride. It is, you know, like, there is this main simulator in Wonders of Life or whatever it is. I think it is odd to have a ride that takes you to a place, but it's really more of a little transportation. It's almost like if there was only the Lieutenant Beck room and then not the rest of it.

Or then you get off on the ship and you look at the stormtroopers and there isn't the rest of Rise of the Resistance after. Yeah, it's like you could get on at the pre-show to Rise of the Resistance. You could just get on to the Lieutenant Beck ship. You could also skip that and go into just the main line for the main ride or you could enter in the back

because there's a post-show to it that you could do like play on a computer. If you could watch a very dry film about how the trade wars came to be it's the it's called the prequels that's what the prequels yeah yeah that's the pre-show of the star wars movies well now now let me but let me now let me toss off this thinking about who they would have been trying to attract with uh you know come to epcot you know the first 10 years or or whatever come to epcot spend your money set aside a day for this

or like you get it you get it if you buy the hotel and you want a park ticket we also give you epcot and the marketing of it's a permanent world's fair and kids who are growing up in the 50s and 60s, does that square more? Does that selling make more sense to our parents' generation? Well, because you're saying that since that was sort of a big thing with pavilions, and it was a little bit looser in terms of how you would manage lines and move people in and out of things. Yeah. You're saying that maybe they might be more used to that? Yeah, that there is like a combination entertainment educational. Sure.

I think my mom and dad who grew up on the East Coast, like my dad went to the New York World's Fair a number of times and they would watch the Disneyland show every Sunday and they were just like, oh, we wish we could go to california but as we have talked about in the past that's impossible once disney world opened they were primed and ready to go and not just to disney the magic kingdom to eventually to epcot well i think from everything you've said your parents were really enamored with the world's fair and went to the world's fair i don't know everything about aaron's dad but i'd be willing

to wager he doesn't give a fuck about the world's fair and yeah i was gonna say yeah but it might factor in it when people were still getting used to like air travel going down the coast you know i mean when disney world opened in the in the contemporary gift shop there was still like incense fresh citrus at home year round isn't that unique like that was but this is 1997 and he loves planes and roller coasters yeah yeah he's not at a troglodyte no by that point by like 97 they start to that's when you start to see epcot change yeah that's when you start to see interventions and more like characters and stuff yeah i think it's just when because it's like the disney precedent had been set for a few

decades at that point yeah probably then people had been trained a certain way to experience a disney park and it was just like confusing because like the thing i think now that we're older there is a lot of fun for us because we go to like happen upon something like that is a fun thing to have like because we you like to roam you like to go notice stuff but most people especially you know i'm sure like 10 years ago even it's like just give me the list of 10 things what are the 10 things point me in the direction and i bet i bet overall there's a much bigger percentage as we get older and as uh this sickness that we uh we give out that That we super spread.

The pandemic of theme park minutiae that we are helping to spread into the population. Hearing too much about things, yeah. It appears you were exposed by three men who were very excited to tell you that Executive Frank Wells was in the tank with Scuba Mickey on opening day. Does that sound familiar to you? Yes,

that does. Yes. Uh, anytime we go to Epcot, I drag anyone around me and I point, I say, that's where Frank Wells was. That's where Frank,

he was in the tank. And, uh, opening day ceremonies, you know, there were some people in some weird flowy Toga things doing a song and dance. It was an Epcot pavilion. They had to have that.

Um, so I think as as that as that uh subculture grows i think maybe now it would be more acceptable now for like that type of structure to all of this stuff but yeah i'm sure i'm sure plenty of families had that exact same thing i bet they missed big cool things oh yeah 100 because they didn't really know where to go so i don't totally agree with that assessment and i had to onboard aaron about epcot after this but i i've always had c-cabs in my head just the disdain with which she said the word c-cabs it just soured her on the whole thing i guess i don't know you know how i think about it i think it

is kind of a dumb word i'm gonna say that i'm sorry if I'm pissing off any C-Cab fans out there. C-Cab is funny because it's like a cat going, yeah, we're going to get in the cab now. A cab is such a utilitarian, kind of boring-sounding word just purely to get you from one place to another. It's not a limo. It's not a party. Nothing fun is going to happen in the cab.

Yes, pure transit. The sea bus. It may as well be called the sea bus. Is it? Okay, this is probably a reach. Were they trying to connect it to the sea cows floating in a tank mere feet away from the sea cows? Sea cows?

Yeah, manatees, sea cows. The gentle giants of the waterways. Seacabs. Seacows. Sure. Makes sense. Possible. I don't know if this was really a direct homage, and we'll eventually do a big episode on it.

The original Walt Epcot Vision video he had about it was going to be a real city. It definitely had omnimover people movers moving people in and out of cities oh yeah and i don't remember if he was gonna maybe he's just gonna call that a people mover i haven't watched the video in a while um i don't think he was gonna call them like air cabs but maybe i think it had like everything because right because like the monorails for were slightly medium distance people movers were for shorter distances and all the cars were under the city if they had to have truck deliveries and stuff and then the out like outside this is like outside yeah anyway it's crazy outside is a big there's a big dome and you can't come in or leave and uh

you're you're shot if you try to invade yeah that we should probably do that we should just watch through on that one maybe yeah yeah eventually good one um i uh hey you know talking about bizarre uh footage and everything did anybody watch the living seas uh special the opening special yeah oh yeah, yeah, the dancing stuff? No, the John Ritter hosted. Oh, I didn't actually. Yeah, I only saw snippets of this. This is, well,

I think I did too because I faded in and out of sleep while watching it. Now, this is a like, okay, the opening day, 1986 opening special for the living c is on nbc uh this is a thing on paper that i should love i love john ritter i love olivia newton john who is bill disappearing in it i love duran duran and simon laban is gonna be in this special so like

wow this is a stacked lineup this is gonna be a blast this is the most bummer thing disney has ever made all the stuff you're saying about like someday the sea will swallow you that's exactly what this is i what was the is this a part where um john ritter says something about our fears of the seas are entirely justified and like you're from three's company you like do pratfalls why did disney bring you in to warn us about the sea and then it has one of the strangest things maybe ever in a disney special which is like okay so

they're showing you like um you know different iterations of of the ocean and stuff uh like including you know walt's been always so obsessed with the sea that his first cartoon was about it. Steamboat Willie. And you're like, wait a minute. Okay, well now, hold on. It's a boat, but that's above a river. I don't know if I think that is Mickey avoiding the sea, trying to

stay above it. Yeah. So that's weird. But then, you know, like, people are still still to this day obsessed with nautical stuff and then there's they show clips of the duran duran rio video which is um just on a yacht and super cool uh uh and and like okay oh and they're this is this is actually a little hip for mtv to be talking about duran duran and r Rio. And now here's a message from Simon Le Bon, who very soberly describes a real experience he had where he was part of a yacht race and the yacht capsized and he was trapped inside with six crew members for 40 minutes and thought he was going to die. What?

Yeah, it's wild. Ladies and gentlemen, Simon Le Bon. Oh, is he going to sing? Is he going to do Notorious or something? No, no, no. He very, it is the saddest thing. He says at some point, those screams still come back to haunt me. What?

I also just highlighted the phrase pale blue death. What? This had happened to him the year before in 1985 and again you think like what's durand doing in the 80s probably living it up uh just like having sex with all the women being on top of the world but no simon lebon wanted to be a yacht racer and he was he was punished by poseidon and now he's and at the beginning of it he says um when the producers asked me to say something about the seas i thought long and hard about what i would and then it's like a 10 minute version of this near-death story i'm like when the producers

asked you to do this you should have said get the fuck out the sea almost killed me. How dare you? Don't you read the news? Wow. Anyway, it's so weird. And this story was apparently turned. The boat was called Drum. There's a full documentary about this called Drum, The Journey of a Lifetime with a Philip Glass score. You can hear about Simon Le Bon almost dying. And then after this in the special,

Olivia Newton-John sings a really sad song about dolphins. And then Laura Branigan, singer of gloria i believe sings the saddest song you've ever heard it's like this is a this is a truly morose special so if you want to get bummed out about if anybody out there's bummed about things that are happening lately and instead you want to be bummed about things in 1986 watch this special wow i gotta i'm sad i missed this now i mean i'm gonna be sadder when i see it but i'm sad i missed it in theory i was i've been saving look i go to you know i'm very tired with the baby all the time and i i so i'm like doing my research late at night and like fading in and out of i've had half a beer and i'm watching this special when it's late for me at 8 30 p.m and like what is he talking about simon lebon on his death i

uh very very surreal and grim i feel like i had bad dreams about simon lebon and boats wow man there's the living seas is just It's misery It is The Seas will Catch us all at some point And the Living Seas will bum us all out I really wish That they had The 30 minute Omnimover

Was something much more traumatizing I wish they had gone a little bit harder I don't know what it would be With a limited budget. You hear the moans of everyone who's drowned since the earth began. They list them. Poseidon yells their name out. Samuel Frederick 1774.

I hope they should have done that. I killed him. I killed them all. They crossed me and they crossed the sea. What if I were to tell you, though, for a certain child, the living seas revealed a kick-ass discovery which was a robot named jason jason here we go about this there was a robot named jason here yeah that's happier that's good that's happier and i think this they were kind of predicted i don't know if they intended to

predict this or it was just something in the air in the 90s. But I feel like there was a lot of TV specials about deep sea exploration, which is what this robot did. It was a little robot that would tell you about how we could stay underwater exploring the deeps for weeks at a time. But I saw so many specials in school. I mean, Cameron, maybe James Cameron

kickstarted it with the Titanic exploration. But man, there was so much in the late 80s, early 90s about exploring the deep sea that that was the real alien. Like that was the next final frontier, not space, but the deep sea. Did you, Jason, did you as a child know Jason? Did you see Jason? I did. I mean, I don't know when he was put in there but i definitely

remember turning a corner and being like everyone everyone come look come look at this you gotta see get pick break out the cameras there's gotta be a picture of you with jason yeah i'll have to start digging because i think the jason sign and robot were around for a while and and then and also i even just like the fate that you could climb in the fake suits they had the kind of explorer suits Jason is an underrepresented original theme park

IP also like we don't hear about Jason I feel like we haven't seen toy any toys of Jason never heard of them yeah can we rectify this can we make a toy of that can we 3D print something? I mean, I'm sure we could do it. There should have been a park star of Jason.

Yeah. Both Jasons. Jason Sheridan and the robot. Yeah. So there's also another original theme park character. Is it Commander Fulton? I don't know about Commander. Yeah, I don't either. I it Commander Fulton? I don't know about Commander. Yeah, I don't either.

I miss Commander Fulton. Commander Fulton is the man who's talking to you on the Living Seas ride. So he's like, hi, I'm Commander Fulton. And then like somebody, a voice comes in and it's like, Commander Fulton, they have arrived at Seabase Alpha. And we never hear about. He's the commander of the sea cabs. Yes, he commands the sea cabs. But I think, yeah, he's in charge of the operation,

and we never hear anything about him. I don't know that there's a picture of him. Maybe I've missed it and it exists somewhere, but he's another character I think we need to hear more from, at least on merch. There's some illustrations of the interior of the center of Sea Base Alpha. I thought those were interesting because they came out looking. What they built was almost exactly what this one piece of concept art is. The big centerpiece being the tube where the person would be in scuba gear.

Then the water would drain and they would come out and go like, hey everyone. Then they would... Really? They'd unfill it? That's really cool. Yeah, there's video of that. They would unfill it, and then in the video I watched, the host who had been hosting puts Scooby Gear on, and they get in and fill it back up.

So they, like, switch. They come in and out. And that was very cool. That feels like a David Blaine trick or something, where it's like there's a box that fills up with water Yeah Over and over again But I don't remember that as a kid I was reminded of that in a video

That room is That is very cool The base is extremely cool It's not like you get nothing after the sea cabs Because you get to see so many great animals It is a great reveal when you end up In that room That is a really grand room And there is a great reveal when you end up in that room. That is a really grand room.

And yeah, and there's a ton to do and, um, you know, lots to explore in there. Yeah. And there's some, in some concept art,

there were, um, pictures of, it was a little bit more like Star Trek-y. And then some of the outfits and some of the concept art were like, there's a, I think there's an episode of Star Trek Next Generation where Commander Riker is fencing, you know, likeencing in a red

exoskeleton. Let me make sure that that's right. And some of the concept art made it look like they would make everybody wear outfits like that, but I gotta find this. It's very Star Trek. Probably is

very Next Generation-y in there. Okay, I'd like to apologize. Riker was not fencing. He was doing a version of some space martial arts in this outfit that I've pulled up here. I really gotta watch this show, don't I? Yeah, no, I think so, yeah. You know, there's a time.

How have I gone this far in quarantine and not given this a go? There's a lot of nonsense in it. So yeah, there's outfits like this, kind of like almost almost it's tron-ish it looks almost like football pads but it's like an approximation of like 80s space with like chinese symbols on it yeah i assume it's an alien language but um oh sure yeah oh that's probably correct yeah um so yeah so anyway there was some concept art i was looking at and and I was like, oh, man. They were thinking, like, a little... They probably ended up just going with your usual Disney, like, claw, like, wool space

outfits that every, you know, Tomorrowland person has to wear. But they, like... It looked like they were maybe thinking of something a little more ambitious for a while. Hmm. A little Star Trek-y. There's one original IP that i can bring to the table too do you guys know about drew no uh no according to this is a twitter user named uh at cable c-a-b-e-l um apparently they tested pretty briefly in the living seas in 1999 a character named Drew One.

And Drew stands for Dolphin Robotic Unit. Wow. They swam a robotic dolphin around in that tank. Oh, wait. Who waved to guests, who smiled, who was extremely realistic. It's really well done. And I don't know why they didn't use it more or if it ended up having non-Disney uses.

Did it have like a saddle on it or was it wearing clothes? I believe yes so that it could say Drew 1 on the side. Yes, okay. I saw the concept art of Drew 1. Yes, okay, because I was like there's a dolphin wearing a saddle in this tank.

Like is somebody going to ride that dolphin around? But I didn't know it was a robot. It obviously was a drawing. Nobody wrote it, I guess. But it existed. And that was made by a company called Edge Innovations that went on to build the Navi in the tank in Avatar Flight of Passage. One of the most striking, you know physical uh beings anywhere in the parks also made emotep my my my good buddy in uh in revenge of the mummy who i declared cute i think in a in

a miniature pony kind of way um so i i'm all about this company they did good they do great stuff wow man a robot dolphin. That would have been great, too. Yeah, we would. I would never have forgotten that if I was a kid. I feel like if I was like there's a dolphin with a saddle with his name on it. This footage, if you if you Google it, there's a whole YouTube video, I think, posted by one of the people who produced the robot. And yeah, it looks good.

I feel like it could have been a, you know, a mainstay if they had kept it. I don't know why they didn't. But we know with, like, Jaws, obviously, robot, water, tough to do. There had to, like, at this point, is there even a prominent, I mean, they have the Jaws. It's been working still in Japan, and it was working in Orlando. But, like, I feel like they try to stay away from that still to this day. Yeah. Yeah, I can't imagine they would mix super well

yeah too bad poor drew um what what else in the exhibit that we want to talk about i mean it's like i well the there's not so many like this landmark show or or thing besides jason obviously right jason is the number one thing you would have wanted to go see yeah i mean i we we can pivot from robot dolphin to like the real real animals i mean i don't have the full list of all the things you can see there at times have been um uh dolphins here is a haunting picture of a scuba diver and a dolphin from the uhorial souvenir of Walt Disney World. This was the Living Seas pages, you can see. I think I would have gotten this book clearly after 1986 when the pavilion opened, but I think my family was down there

in 88 maybe and got this. But I got a bunch of stuff I was reading about the manatees i mean when we went down uh the the gentle giants the the seafaring mammals um when we went down them i think you've you just you describe them so glowingly i love i think i spent so much time staring at the manatees when we were there in florida when we did the live show. Did you think maybe if they could put a little saddle on one of them, you could ride them around? I mean, I would love it. They're very strong. They're very large.

They can grow upwards of 1,200 pounds. They're very... They're not aggressive. I saw something online just today. A manatee's body is so soft that if the animal crashes into a swimmer it's like being bumped by a giant pillow what yes this is your dream animal it it's great and then pillow

animal a pillow animal um wow they cannot bite you because of the way their snouts uh are shaped they're not aggressive and uh of course the kings the current manatees uh i still there last i i saw a post in 2020 i think the ones we saw in 2019 lil joe and lou uh lil joe has been released into the wild and then rescued multiple times. Oh, no. Lil' Joe. Lil' Joe here. I think this is the South Florida Sun Sentinel, I believe is the name of the paper.

Lil' Joe first became a public figure in 1989 when rescued from the Halifax River near Daytona Beach. Let's see. What else about him? Captain Cativity, Lil' Joe would be bottle fed by President George H.W. Bush at SeaWorld in Orlando

and sent to WOW audiences in San Diego, Cincinnati, and Tampa. Where'd Bush fed him a bottle? Bottle fed by George H.W. Bush. Bottle fed him. Like George W. Bush. Yeah. How many creatures has George Bush bottle fed?

Jeb, George, and Will Joe. Maybe Billy. Of course, Will Joe, my favorite son. Maybe Billy Bush if he came over when he was little. Oh, yeah. Yes. Love to feed billy uh what else about little joe there's lots of facts uh manatee caretakers gradually gained confidence that a really big animal like little joe he peaked at 1900 pounds

and 10 and a half feet long could survive on his own. He was released in the St. John's River in 2011 and recaptured after being found stunned by cold. Oh, little Joe. This makes me so sad. Yeah, geez, this poor pillow. Yeah, it's a pillow. They did a short rehab,

released him again, lost track of him, and worried he died. But then in 2012, they found him again lost track of him and worried he died uh but then in 2012 they found him again uh and this is sad but kind of funny little joe nearly froze to death and ate a boat cushion during a flirt with freedom a couple of years ago a boat cushion a boat cushion yes and they said once they got the undigested boat cushion pieces out of him, he was back to eating 100 heads of lettuce a day. And the article concludes with this very moving statement,

quote, he's so big, said Cooper Lingston, 12, of North Carolina, looking through the glass side of Manatee Pool, 12 feet deep, quote peaceful so uh on this show we we respect little joe uh all due respect to little joe we stand would you say we stand him we stand lou and little joe uh one of them you know they're they're thin is a little little chewed up by boats of course um yeah that's that's the thing that really gets them is boats and speed boats and waterways.

Could I request of the audience, I feel like I haven't called for a fan art yet, but could I get a photo of Jason sleeping on little Joe with a soaking wet blanket on top of him? I'll do whatever little Joe asks for me. one of the manatees in that tv special they have to like eight yeah they have to transport him i think um they have to fill a giant flatbed thing with salt water and lift him with a crane into it so that he can be cared for at animal kingdom and then brought back i think that was one of the manatees.

How old is Lil' Joe? I'm not quite sure. There's so much about, and I also lost track of how many times he's been rescued. He's been released and re-rescued. Interesting. You know what's happening?

He's trying his best. He is. Lil' Joe is trying his best, like so many of the great theme park characters. Yeah. Maybe he's trying his best. He is. Joe is trying his best like so many of the Great Theme Park characters. Yeah. Maybe he's the best Epcot character right now. Maybe.

I think that's right. He's better than evil figment than bad figment. Dark figment. Toilet figment. Vanities can live 6 to 60 Wow Little Joe could be up there

He's as old as us probably Yeah A manatee In his mid 30's And I don't know if he's childless or not But maybe A childless manatee in his mid 30's The living seas Hosted by a childless manatee in his mid-30s the living seas hosted by one

childless manatee in his mid-30s it's as soft as a pillow wow little joe i love little joe wow i do too now i'm so glad you learned about little joe oh look at this listen to our voices all lilting now oh it's the Hearing about a pillow makes me so relaxed. This, I think, only makes love even more. He's an orphan. They found him. He was orphaned. He was so little.

And the first two to three years, apparently, of the manatee lifespan, that's how they learn how to exist in the world. And he just didn't get any of it. There's so many Disney characters. Yeah. Wow. Do manatees like hugs from humans? I was reading online. They're so protected,

I don't even think you're supposed to pet them, but apparently they will nuzzle up to boats. They will surface. So I'm guessing then little kisses are out of the question. There are limited experience. You can scuba. You can pay to scuba or snorkel in the living seas. They still offer those options.

I don't know. Can you kiss the fish when you scuba dive? Can I kiss? Can I do a chill sesh with Lil Joe? Can I sing a sea shanty on TikTok with him? If you slip the guy,

the scuba guy, a hundred bucks, he'll let you kiss the fish. It's a little bit of a hack there before you do it. No, I'm not going to let you do that. I am going to look the other way. And if any kissing happens

when I'm turned over here then so be it but only little kisses i'll hear a big kiss not full on smooch i'll hear not full on bugs bunny elmer fudd kiss not that yeah just a little a little kiss i i do remember them feeding the manatees when we were there i don't remember if children were able to toss in heads of lettuce. If that was the case, I'm sure I was like eyeing my in. I was like, okay, after that kid

there's a break. Maybe I could hop over and toss him a big thing of romaine. My name is Jason, like the robot used to be here. Can I help? I brought my own romaine from home. Everyone's a little too expensive around Disney World. I got the band.

What makes them more special? Okay. I've got object permanence. Really good object permanence. 30 heads of lettuce on me. On my person at all times. My backpack. Like a few of Felix's magic bag full of lettuce

that's a reference i apologize felix the cat i don't think i knew felix had a magic bag yeah felix the cat had a magic bag where he could like it's like mary poppins's bag you could pull whatever he wanted out of it anything we're not into tiktok people are like felix the cat's magic bag we should try to get the felix the cat challenge going of like people pulling unlimited items out of their like that's good yeah that's pretty good i think that would be the new trend among today's youths it's called sea shanties you're out it's called felixing it's got sea shanties on the run watch out poseidon felixing is the new trend wow um geez oh my god okay well little joe the best ip in here um i mean i guess we could talk about the the nemo overlay which, you know, we don't have to spend

a lot of time on it. It really is like the same... Alright, so what used to be the sea cabs, it was all closed for a long time. That's the big thing that happened. In what Wikipedia blames on September 11th, the hydrolators and the sea cabs were shut down and you could just walk

into the thing. Not sure why those correlate, but I guess they're cutting, you know, budget because nobody's traveling. So it was kind of an underwhelming version of the Living Seas for a long time until they installed

Turtle Talk with Crush. This was the first place to have Turtle Talk with Crush, which is at California Adventure and a number of other parks. And that sort of not only infused new life, but it sort of pointed the way that, oh, maybe we got to get more Nemo in here. So now it is a fully Nemo-ified experience. And that mainly manifests in the sea cabs where you see Nemo and friends. And it's roughly the same as what happens in the submarine voyage,

correct? Yeah, I don't know. I had convinced myself that the submarine voyage came first. It did not. Nemo, the seas with Nemo came first. And I think the reason I had convinced myself that

was because my first reaction, the first time I did the Nemo Omniboover was well this looks a little cheap this kind of looks not great I like the fake dune in the queue but uh yeah I don't

I'm not the biggest fan of the Nemo stuff in here I can I remember seeing that movie opening weekend and going like i can take her i didn't i like a lot of movies i didn't that was fine nemo's on your list nemo's on my i think finding dory is the better movie really yeah i i don't know i think just the the escape movie i that some of those pixar movies where they just do the sequel as a genre movie i i think they they have a little more fun

Cars yeah they maybe got a little better with that Cars 2 is insane Cars 2 is insane yeah I've never seen it honestly doesn't it open with a car getting tortured by another car yeah it's a spy movie

and it's crazy it's like only Mater is a spy movie and it's it's crazy it's like only mater mater is a spy now wow oh yikes uh yes i uh i know i'm like finding nemo and um i like that there is some finding nemo aesthetics not only here but in other places i like the the seagulls the mine mine mine um i like that they're at disneyland i like that they're at Disneyland. I like that they're outside. This thing, it does kind of, the mural they put in sort of takes away from the brutalist original Epcot feel, but I like, I don't know, I like them on the rocks.

And I like the Nemo music, and I like that Nemo music shows up in various attractions. I do think that in general, they are doing Nemo dirty in the parks because you got submarines, which I feel like people are mixed on. I'm mixed on it. As we've discussed, I'm mixed on the sea cabs. There is a simulator at DisneySea. That is fine, but by the DisneySea standards, it wasn wasn't in my top 10 i don't think it would be in a lot of people's um there's a crush coaster in paris which is uh i actually i didn't get to

do it it looks cool um but there isn't like an exceptional nemo attraction i don't know leave i i i yeah i think timing wise nemoo because of when the movie came out and because of what needed to be renovated and what was on the chopping block potentially Nemo then got saddled with these things literally Nemo all Nemo was doing

is propping up stuff that wasn't that popular or there was a problem with the system it's expensive to run the subs if no one's gonna go on them or it's like all right we'll throw nemo on there nemo nemo is like a stop like a stop gap it's like a saving like to extend the life of something for another decade maybe another two decades it's and it's timing i think it's a lot of us just with timing like turtle talk with crush is like the most fully realized cool experience that utilizes that movie and those characters.

But, yeah, like, Nemo, I'm trying to think of another example of, like, a movie that is just, like, its popularity is just being used to not have to spend more money, essentially. Like, to bulldoze something and bring up a new ride which will eventually happen at least to the subs in Disneyland a little bit of frozen frozen somewhat yeah I

mean I don't think frozen or after is quite that but like no I love frozen after ever after though so mm-hmm yeah I do too and like guardians we'll find out we will find out soon and

guardians of the Galaxy obviously is a re-theme but like they did a great job with it it's just there's no nothing I can think of that's such a popular movie like Finding Nemo is so popular at least the first one was there's no rides that like Nemo is all of these

rides that are a version of like putting a book under a broken leg of a chair yes yes yes and it's timing i think you know what i i mean i'm not happy that nemo took the hydra later but the other thing that we haven't really talked about that i loved as a kid uh this sign and the constant splashing water oh yeah it was the coolest the mural good call the splashing water the sign and this um kind of looks like shit uh i like it's a little 2000s it's a little gross bad it's

not bad but it's yeah it doesn't have the vibe of the first one i don't mind the abstract depiction of the of the characters of the manatees and the fishes and everything like like those they blend okay with that that mural but the logo especially when yeah that the living seas is just such that's that's just that beautiful epcot font and beautiful unfriendly steel yeah just getting to shine in the sun which they have slowly been putting back in the pavilion, if you see in these pictures. You know, it's not the same font, if I'm going to be picky. Like, it's more rounded. But I like this font. I do like it a lot.

This does feel like, you know, a revised, reimagined version of the original vibe. And we should point out that the little areas inside are called modules. I like that. Yes. Which I'm a big fan of. That last one you showed was like module 1B, which was the manatees. Yeah. Again, if we were less lazy, we could be joined by the module keeper.

But we're at the end of the episode almost. Yeah. We'll have to talk modules in depth later i think um can i talk about something that was missing from the sign that you just showed jason but it was there when the attraction opened and that is the nod to the sponsor united technologies um okay so you alluded to this a little bit um united technology is now part of Raytheon, which might imply what kind of company they are. But this is what I alluded to a while back, and I sort of pulled

this from a Jim Hill article, that when this attraction was proposed, they wanted to do all this fantastic stuff. They wanted Poseidon. They wanted a curtain of water. They wanted the base to be entirely underwater, and you travel in pearls. It was going to be a lot more grand but the bill

was being footed by united technologies and they they put a lot of money into it this is an extremely expensive uh 90 million dollars at the time um they they spent a lot of money they did not spend money but they were like well within that i don't know all the other stuff do we need all the fantastical all the frills and everything? Can't we just like show off our suits? Like we have these diving suits and we have those now and we kind of want people to be interested in them. So, you know, put the suits in there. So that's sort of why it ends up being clinical at times.

Actually, Jim Hill describes some of the attraction as dry and academic. And I don't disagree with that. Some of it certainly is. So I'm like, all right, well, what is this weird company that would pay for it, but then not want to do any of the cool stuff? You're going to reject Poseidon? You're that limited in your imagination? What is the deal with United Technologies? And the big thing that I found is that, okay, so United Technologies made

Otis elevators. That's fine. I got no beef with Otis. They made helicopters, such as Blackhawks, and they made engines for military jets. So they really are like a military parts company. In the early 90s when this attraction had only been open for a little while united technologies pleaded guilty

to four felonies and agreed to pay six million dollars in penalties to the u.s government in connection with a pentagon influence peddling scandal. What happened was they were trying to get the inside line. They wanted to build this engine for the government, an F-404, and they were trying to figure out how to do it cheaper than their competition, General Electric, sponsors of Horizons across the way. So two Epcot sponsors are trying to build jet engines. They're competing against each other. They go to a guy named Melvin Paisley, who is the assistant assistant secretary of the Navy under Reagan.

And there he had quit the Pentagon. And now he knows all of this info. He knows how much things cost. And he accepted money from United Technologies to help them underbid so that they could get this military contract. This all got found out. United Technologies had to pay six million dollars. Melvin Paisley went to prison for four years. There were 58 convictions as part of this scandal. The entire thing was called Operation Ill Wind. This was a massive, massive corruption uh, massive corruption, uh,

and fraud and bribery investigation. Um, that also embroil among the other companies embroiled in the scandal, uh, general electric, as I mentioned, sponsors of horizons and Sperry Univac sponsors of the astute or computer review and smart one.

The people. So the people who paid for horizons, carousel of progress, smart one, and the people who paid for Horizons, Carousel of Progress, Smart One, and The Living Seas were all committing fraud to try to get military contracts. Wow. When you realize that Epcot is this showcase of awful companies, hellish companies,

trying to help bombs drop. drop oh man yeah that is wild and they don't want poseidon and they yes and but mainly the okay all that building the the weapons that are there are building the engines to drop bombs that's one thing but depriving us of poseidon this like uh uh is it fair to call it edging? Would you, would they give us, excuse me, getting something? Yeah, they're getting close to something good, but then not all the way with it, like Poseidon would be.

Yeah. The other thing, so the engine that they wanted to build, so they did end up building engines for the specific plane uh hornet fighters uh which were heavily used in operation desert storm and the subsequent iraq war so thank you united technologies um hornet fighters uh were the basis of the characters bravo and echo from disney's planes here they are oh jesus christ voiced by val kilmer and anthony edwards in a nod to top gun and isn't that cute there they are cute little planes the

truck bombs on a rack jesus christ yeah what a little trip huh it really it really speaks to like my brain where you're like talking about how horrible the companies are and i was like but what about poseidon that's still look that's still where i am absolutely uh uh to be look if you're i'm of course i accept that especially epcot center which i've spent so much of my life thinking about was full of evil uh military contract companies but if you're gonna do that then give us cool stuff too general electric did bad stuff but then they took us uh to mesa verde and they showed us a kid upside down and an animatronic seal um they right and

they financed sherman brothers songs and stuff uh so you got to give us some good with the evil. That's what I demand. Right. It's an equal split. Cosmically. Yes. Yes. All the way. Yeah.

50-50 good and evil. And then you'll be fine. That's right. Do we think that like the National Geographic Society, the Scripps Institution of Oceanography, all these other oceanographic groups were also pushing like, hey, maybe not the fantasy. We have a lot of education. We have a lot of, you know, marine biology to do and rescue stuff. I saw that it was just, it was literally like the company was like, here's 90 million bucks.

That's what you get. And they were like, well, we can't make Poseidon on 90 million dollars oh i see okay yeah it got cut way back just because of like budget wise that this is how much they were willing to spend and then and then unfortunately uh look i i always say if you're not going to do poseidon right don't do them at all yeah so that's really worth it um you know because poseidon wouldn't wouldn't have been bothering the researchers, I don't think. Unless there was going to be an animatronic blowing big jets of bubbles and messing up ecosystems and hurting animals. Hey, four eyes, what are you doing over there? You're telling lies.

The tides happen because of me, not the stupid moon. Little Joe couldn't cut it in the wild, could you? Came back home to mommy, huh, little Joe? He's taunting little Joe. Oh, that's a real heel turd if I've ever heard one. Poseidon's a bastard. That's what I'm saying. Oh, no. Yeah, he's a power player.

He's a jerk. Yeah, so it's good that he's not there yeah thank god and that we're just left we're left with a little i mean yeah look there's been ups and downs we don't have poseidon but we have we have old joe you made you made me realize the the warmth at the heart of this attraction and um i'm just glad he has a place to stay safe. It was all worth it. United Technologies, the C-Cabs, every bit of it. I wouldn't take one bit of it back. Yeah, so Little Joe,

I think they need to put Little Joe out front a little more. I think they need to do some cartoon versions of him like we did a Patreon episode with Earl the Squirrel, which is a character universal that sort of was a realistic-looking robot, but then they made him a cartoon. Let's have a cartoon of, um,

um, little Joe, you know, let's do that. Let's go all the way. Well, I'd like to see an Avengers of, uh,

fairly unpopular aquatic animals. Um, like the, there's, there could be a little Joe. There's, um, the,

the shrimp mascot from Bubba Gump. I know he has a name, but I don't, I'm disappointed in myself. I don't know it offhand. Does anyone know? We should know that. Somebody just brought him up to me and I was like, yeah, why don't I know his name? Seems like the kind of thing we would know. The Dirty Shrimp Man.

Everyone knows he's dirty. I might put, you know, there was a cartoon of Free Willy where he talked. Maybe we could cartoon of Free Willy where he talked maybe we could put Talking Free Willy in the Aquatic Avengers Oh what's the Aquavengers? There we go

What's the talking dolphin from Sequest's name? Oh I don't remember I don't think I ever knew that But Drew can be in there Drew's going in Oh Darfin Darwin knew that but drew drew can be in there drew's going in there oh oh darfin darfin darwin i like darvin though too wait darwin is the oh no darwin's not the bubba gump darwin no no darwin's the

sequest darwin was an intelligent dolphin capable of capable of communication he was a close friend of captain nathan bridger and lucas wall wall I don't know I can't pronounce his last name I apologize to the Sequest fans um is this our uh plus up we've gotten some requests for uh plus it up close you know oh to bring back plus it up um

I mean pushing Lil Joe yeah Lil Joe like enticing people to come in Lil Joe dancing around out front like a Bubba Gump. Sad to say the fish police will not be joining as many of them have been stripped of their shields and guns for their maybe coordination for the Capitol riot event.

The Capitol of Atlantis. Yeah, yeah. Yes, the Capitol oflantis where all those um all those like the deep sea fish that have never seen the sun trying to open the core they open the coral they open the coral yeah they rotate it to theater gates no yeah they've been stripped of their shields which uh have big starfish on the front and their guns that shoot little bones

yes my plus up is I would like to return to a more terrifying living seas you know that's good you can keep the Nemo and friends on there but like let's like let's make, but let's bring the score back

that's really going to be haunting, and let's let the Nemo friends remind you, if we get a hold of you, we will kill you. There's more dangerous fish here. Don't fuck with us. Would you like it if, I don't know if trickery is involved in your dark vision or could be but would you like if uh kids and families lined up for turtle talk with crush and then when

they entered the theater it's like a psych moment and instead you have to watch all of drum the journey of a lifetime and learn about simon lebon's brush with pale blue death i think okay wait i like that i like that how about it's true yeah it's advertised as turtle talk but it's like the same turtle talk technology but it's simon lebon from duran duran so it's a teenager playing him from behind a screen and then he like asks people questions and then he ties everything back to the yachting accident to try to warn people so like a child five years old like does anyone have a question for simon yes you there in the striped shirt and like i well are you who are you what well it all goes back to my yachting accident and then everything is about the yachting accident and that gives

everybody you know they understand how dangerous the sea is eventually a mom is like oh hey so you know i love hungry like the wolf one of my favorite songs growing up how did you come up with that well it's i don't remember anymore because i'm my brain is fogged by visions of pale blue death. I don't really speak of my music anymore. Yeah. I think that's good, Jason. Respect is earned in many ways. Sometimes it's earned by the heartwarming story like Lil' Joe.

Sometimes it's earned by learning about respect for the sea by seeing the mighty power of it in your yachting accident, you know? And now do that like Simon Le Bon would have done it. He said it. Respect is earned in a myriad of ways, sometimes by just seeing this beautiful,

big pillow animal and his many trials and tribulations, and other times by getting my ass handed to me in a yachting accident can we drop philip glass score in there yeah put some throw that in a ton of glass in that case i think that's a beautiful note to go out on unless there's any objections I think you survived pale blue podcast the ride just narrowly a trip under the sea boy oh boy we met new friends

met new enemies and that was something for more journeys of a lifetime with us be sure to follow us on all the social medias. Send us your gripes. We're still collecting gripes, which you can send us if you look up the tweet

where we posted it. Gripes aren't really in a clear place. You'll figure it out. But there is one clear place. Put it in the description for this episode. It was in the last description. Oh, good. Oh, thanks, Jason. Good. Yeah. Okay. Those of you who just emailed your gripes, put it in the description for this episode it was in the last description oh good oh thanks Jason

good yeah okay those of you who just emailed your gripes tsk tsk gotta listen rule number one you go to the spreadsheet and rule number two you have to say yeah I got a gripe alright a lot of people did we'll read gripes that don't but we'll give them

a little tsk tsk as we do a more clear web address is patreon.com slash podcast the ride home to podcast the ride the second gate where you get three bonus episodes every month go there right now to learn about six flags roller coaster cuts the failed hair salon for children started by six flags which very quickly went underwater oh yeah very good yeah oh boy tied it all up well i just yeah like just remember like the sea is not your friend you know but where the sea don't go out there don't end this episode and start thinking you're friends with the sea but where it all costs beside and sand will strike you be very careful with the sea, but where it all cuss, Poseidon's hand will strike you. Be very careful of the sea.

It is memorable and varied, but it does not use butters like sauces and spices to enhance its delicately flavored seafood entrees, which is how the pictorial souvenir of Walt Disney World describes the offerings of the Coral Reef restaurant

to presumably children buying this book. Jesus Christ. Okay. Well, thanks book. That was nice. Thanks for ending the show on a weird notebook. Okay.

Bye bye. Bye. Forever Dog. This has been a Forever Dog production. Executive produced by Mike Carlson, Jason Sheridan, Scott Gairdner, Brett Boehm, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit foreverdogpodcasts.com and subscribe to our shows on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Keep up with the latest Forever Dog news by following us on Twitter and Instagram,

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