Podcast: The Ride - Transformers: The Ride with Paul Scheer

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

Paul Scheer (How Did This Get Made?, Unspooled) returns to the show to discuss Transformers: The Ride. We discuss the role of intimacy in ride design, and try to remember anything that happens in the Transformer movies. And Mike does a little presentation. Primeval Whirl episode up at The Second Gate: Patreon.com/PodcastTheRide WATCH THIS EPISODE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdysAKurOj0 FOLLOW PODCAST: THE RIDE: https://twitter.com/PodcastTheRide https://www.instagram.com/podcasttheride BUY PODCAST: THE RIDE MERCH: https://www.teepublic.com/stores/podcast-the-ride PODCAST THE RIDE IS A FOREVER DOG PODCAST https://foreverdogpodcasts.com/podcasts/podcast-the-ride Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Forever Dog. Warning. The following podcast is full of heated discussion, heated wheel rubber, and hearts being heated up after receiving warm praise from a robot. Basically, things get heated as Paul Scheer returns to talk Transformers The Ride 3D on today's podcast, The Ride, the theme park podcast where it takes a 30-foot tall robot to conquer our fear of intimacy. I'm Scott Gardner, joined by Jason Sheridan.

I was, as you started that sentence, I was like, is he going to say intimacy? Because that's what I would say, fear of intimacy. Well, it's one of the big areas of conversation today for a big ride, and that was a joke mainly aimed at Mike Carlson, host number three. I think this is, correct me if I'm wrong, listeners, but the idea of intimacy on a ride started from a discussion of this particular theme park attraction. No question. Yeah.

Yes. Which is something we're going to have to loop our guest in. There's a lot of mythology, tons of mythology happening. That's what I was thinking about with this topic. This is a ride that has had a vice grip on this podcast since the very beginning. Some of the hottest takes, some of the longest running debates.

It has just always been a presence despite not having an episode of its own. Until now. The name of this ride is Transformers The Ride. It is at Universal Studios Parks worldwide, Hollywood, Orlando, and the others. And we're here. We're here to do it.

And I think that we needed not just a big guest, but somebody who can sort of like, what's the word? Mediator? Yeah, or arbitrary. Yeah, that mediator is correct. Yeah, because there's so much here to go over. We need like an outsider to help us parse all of it.

But of course not an outsider. He's joined us many times. But for the first time in a long time from How Did This Get Made? From his Twitch channel, Friend Zone, the optimist prime of comedy podcasting. It's Paul Scheer. Hi, Paul. I am honored to really be blessed

with this episode. This is an important episode, and it is for me a ride that I have a lot of opinions on, a lot of theories about, and I can't wait. I don't even want to give you an idea of what I think about this until the conversation really starts.

Because I know where some of you fall on this. So I would like to, you know, I'd like to, I don't want to sway the boat either way before the conversation properly gets started. Yeah, yeah, I know. And like neither, we shouldn't all tip it too much. And I hope that's not what I'm doing by just by diving into this, but there, look, I'm so excited, Paul,

that you could join us for Transformers specifically, because in my mind, you were the only guest who could do it because there's a bit of a history here. And I don't know if you recall the history and I'm going to open a wound, but I'd say it's mainly a wound for me. I think this is my, my wound.

I don't know if you know what I'm talking about. I think I do, and I want to hear it, I want to hear it maybe from a different perspective, and that's really where I think, I don't think I could explain it to someone else, so I think that I understand it in my heart. Yeah, let's rasham on this shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'd be curious to hear it from yours, too, and how you had to discover this. It really goes to the roots of Podcast The Ride, the very beginning. And actually, even before that, it goes back to the Doughboys, to your first appearance on the Doughboys. Whenever this was, the episode was Bubba Gumpsa, I believe. Yes, yeah. So you were on Doughboys. And in my memory, and let me, I italicize that

in my notes. And so let me italicize it out loud. This is in my memory. What you had said, what I thought you had said about Transformers, the ride is that it was your favorite ride. This is what I, this is what I thought. Well, let's date it of when, when I it 2017 unless i'm wrong i like let's just say it's pre uh star wars land it's pre-rise it's pre-spider-man the ride it it is uh and i believe

the way that i said it and again maybe i didn't use it to all, you know, whatever. I'm not trying to step back from it. But I did believe at that point it is one of the most technologically advanced, best rides, hands down. That's how I always felt. Like that, to me, was the evolution of the perfect ride because it had 3D elements. It was moving through on a track, but it also used screens. It wasn't exclusively screen-based.

So I felt like there were a lot of elements. I was like, more of that. And that is coming off of my belief before that, that from Islands of Adventure, Spider-Man the ride was my favorite new class of ride again i'm talking about new class of ride not like the best ride my favorite ride but the if that's the future i want to be on that like i want to see more track rides that involve a lot of things now we're gonna have a different conversation because of you know rise i've been to uh i've been to japan to go on some rides there i've had some different experiences right

yeah so the evolution of the ride has has grown but i i have i have some theories but yes so that you are i would say you're you're pretty right well this is i wasn't saying it wasn't like like mr toads might be my go-to answer for that. If I, you know, or like Haunted Mansion in the grand scheme of things. But that's not talking about like personal connection. This is more from a technological standpoint. Greatest, what's blowing you away right then and there? And I absolutely agree. Like from a technical standpoint, it is incredible.

It is a perfectly valid answer. But this is, again, the shame is on me here. Because what I recalled was you saying it is definitively your favorite ride or the best ride or something definitive like that. And then we start recording our show. And one of the first episodes, I don't remember what, maybe it was with Mitch, but I think this conversation came up. And I, in the episode, say, oh, yeah, I remember Paul saying that like, oh, I don't know. I was all shitty and snarky, dismissive, dismissive about that opinion. And then and then I filed that away, put it in a drawer, forgot that anyone would hear this ever because this was before the show started coming out.

So I'm like, oh, no, it is. Certainly no one will ever hear that, let alone Paul himself. Then I think as soon as the episode comes out, you DM me and say, I feel like I must have had a caveat for saying Transformers is the best ride. So there it is. So, yeah, there it is. And then I just gave you the exact same response. Yes, yes.

Completely. It's very consistent. So I at this point go beet red because two things are happening. One, I'm very excited that you are listening to the show. Ideal person. We are so honored and have always been honored to have you involved in the show. And so that's great. So Paul's listening and he heard me being shitty about a perfectly valid opinion and getting it a little wrong

so this is a thing that i felt bad about for five years you probably forgot about it entirely i have not this has been right searing 100 i mean i've been on the show multiple times we've we've seen each other socially no i don't care like look we skydove together That's a that's a brotherhood that you can't undo when you indoor sky together. I fly. Yes. Yes. Yes. Brotherhood of fake flying.

I fly the city walk. Yes. All I'll say is this. If anyone was going to give me shit about my theme park opinions, I welcome it from the three of you. Here here thank you i i i take me to task i will have a defense for it i will i but i i don't you know i i i appreciate a theme park and and you know we've we've been there we've been there on the opening day of uh of rise of the resistance yes we have done it. I'm there.

I'm not a fair weather fan. I'm not a person who's like, oh, when I was a kid, I liked it, or I like bringing my kids to it. No, I'm there, but I will take my lumps if properly given, and I feel like I just wanted to make sure

that you knew and didn't think less of me. Not remotely, and especially because, again, these are my lumps to get because I went and listened to the episode in question. And you do, in fact, say this is not best. This is not definitive. What you are what is posed to you is to make a Mount theme park more and to put different attractions on the Mount theme park. And Transformers is the first thing out of your mouth. That's what's like exciting you right now.

But you get you say, Mr. To said goliath i believe it's six flags okay it's a healthy lit and in a list of four this is it is not what i defined it as and even if it was why should that be a problem although this is interesting because that's that wow it's i don't even remember that but now that you bring it up, first of all, I will say this. Again, when it was recorded, we got to put that into context. But secondly, where it was recorded or where our food was eaten, which was Universal City Walk. So I'm also coming off of Bubba Gump. That's where we're there.

You know, I'm thinking about things of that nature. I will also say, you know, truth be told, I find Universal theme park rides to be lackluster. And in an effort to throw a bone, that's where I threw it. That's where I threw it to that ride. And again, I still feel very strongly about that ride. I really liked that ride a lot.

But if I'm trying to be equal in creating this Mount Rushmore, I don't want to just be, I don't want to be one corporation. I want to spread it around multiple corporations. That's why Goliath makes the list. Yeah, you really did. You did your due diligence.

They all got on there. They all got on the Mount. I should also say, just for the record, in listening to the conversation that continued, that you and Mitch go on the record as not liking the Johnny Depp robot while Wiger defends it. So I just wanted to put that out there while we're digging through old podcast episodes. But again, remember the date, 2017. Remember the date. Yes.

This is important. And look, and I'll say this. Regardless of how I feel about Johnny Depp, I still feel the same way about the animatronic in the sense that it dates it. And the one thing that Disney has with very few rides is a timelessness to it. And all of a sudden, you're popping in, uh, you know, a, uh, at a

one point, a worldwide, uh, giant celebrity aid. I felt it cheapens it. It cheapens it a bit. Like, do we need it? Do we, do we need to know that that's a Jack Sparrow adventure? I don't think so. No. Yeah. I mean, now, meanwhile, you put the cracking in there, you're whatever the hell that the squid face guy, I'm all in for that because that is timeless. Squid face guy is timeless to me. That feels more more universal. Oh, that's a piratey kind of a thing. Well, I'm not tied to like one guy.

I think it's tricky when you get into one actor because it does rely on that actor not being like, you know, weird. Who knows what could happen? Yeah. What could happen? What could happen yeah what could happen what could happen yeah anything i would say if we're gonna go on a larger scale conversation is pirates the cursed ride i mean you know we go from this idea that you know it's the one that's been the most revamped and changed and at a certain point wasn't even gonna to be in florida but you know people like we want

that pirates ride we were we you're going to build this like kind of larger in the mountain coaster that was going to take us through more problematic areas of our history of the united states but uh you know but but that there is a curse nature to the Pirates ride. That's interesting. The most, yeah, it does keep running into, and curses of like accidents and the water being toxic. There's like all kinds of level of curse on that thing. Yeah, there's a lot. Overloaded nowadays, like way too many boats. So like the end of the ride,

you're just getting slammed by the boat behind you. Oh my God, the worst, the worst. Yeah, the Black Pearl was cursed and the ride was cursed. Yeah. Okay, the black pearl was cursed and the ride was cursed. Yeah. Okay, now let me say that because there's a little bit more that comes out of this. Please, I'm very excited

that we're going to the tape. We're going deep, yeah. Okay, yeah, to go into the archaeology of the DMs a little more, here is, now as we patch up old wounds, and thank you for making me feel better

about my early episode shittiness. Yeah, never feel badly about that. I thank you for making me feel better about my early episode shittiness. Yeah, never feel badly about that. I wish you would approach me sooner. Oh, geez. Okay. I'm glad it's out in the open. But now I'm worried. But I think we have to.

But I'm fearful that we're going to open up a new wound, a new scar. And when I say something that you said soon after, and here we go. Also, just re-road Spidey Transformers is better. That I stand by as someone who once thought that Spidey was one of the best. Yes. Now at this point, I fear for the opinions of Jason Sheridan. Well, well, well. Here we go.

Because I have been critical of this ride in that it is, I have always thought of it as lesser than Spider-Man. You know, Spider-Man, an opening day attraction at Islands of Adventure. So we're clocking it at 1999. And this opens over a decade later. And while it does have a number of upgrades it hits a lot of the same beats almost of the ride it hits a lot of very similar moments with characters that uh are not like my dear friend spider-man characters that i don't i'm like what are these characters personalities and

it was only digging into this ride has this happens a lot on the show i dig into a ride and it grows on me if i'm kind of indifferent to it or skeptical of it because a lot of the q videos for this ride i'm like okay this is what this character's deal is and okay they're setting up this big set piece, like this big moment in the ride. It makes a little more sense now. That said, I was racking my brain because I was a Transformers kid. I had Transformers toys growing up, and I could not remember any storylines from the show. The only thing that stuck out in my mind was the CG one from the later 90s called Beast Wars that takes place entirely in barren landscapes because CG was very expensive. Right.

I remember this. Oh, I see. So it always had to be deserts. Yeah. And they were animals. They were like prehistoric animals. So it kind of makes sense. Like dinosaur age. And then being like a 13, 14 year old too smart for my own good renting

the Transformers movie and going like, hey, you know, this was Orson Welles' last picture before he died. He was Omicron. The big planet one, that's Orson Welles. He was Omicron. The name was Omicron? I think, right? I think so, yeah. Wow.

Remember the year. Remember the year. Well, let's, why don't, maybe we all need to sort of address a little bit where we're coming at it from. Well, let me, can I just ask one quick question? Yeah. Just because I,

when was the last time you rode Spider-Man in Islands of Adventure? Great. I want to put that down too, because that is, you know, I was, I believe when I recorded that,

fresh off of Islands of Adventure. Sorry, that's my, by the way, not to step on that, but Mike is saying it's not Omicron. It's not Omicron. What is it called? Unicron. Unicron. Close. Okay, Omicron.

That's the next, that's the, by next Christmas we'll all be getting that. I'll be sick with Unicron. Yeah, well, I'll have Unicron. Oh, right. That's a strain of the thing. Okay. Yes, that's why I was hung up on it. It's a letter in the, isn't it a letter in the lab? Yeah, it, all of them go to ground. Oh, right, that's a strain of the thing. Yes, that's why I was hung up on it. It's a letter in the,

isn't it a letter in the lab now? It is a letter, it's something else. Who can remember all the strains now? Okay, yes, last time on Spider-Man. We were, the three of us were down there in 2019, and that was the last time I read that. Well, because here's my, and I know that we're not,

this is not a definitive argument between the two, but I want to put a couple of, not even caveats. Spider-Man, the ride, Islands of Adventure, has shown its age. And I think that that's what I was, what I was feeling. There's a certain, we talk about timelessness and stuff like that. Like when I got on that ride, I had so much excitement. I was like, I love this one. And I walked there and I had one of those fast passes,

but I didn't even need it because it was empty. Meanwhile, the Hulk ride, which has been redone, they kind of redid the inside. Now we all know all the backdrop of why Marvel islands of adventure can only be in the Fox cartoon world of like the early nineties, but yeah, sure. yeah sure generic but right yeah

so you know i go there really looking forward like oh my gosh i can't wait and it's empty and i walk right on and i was like oh it just it felt like it hit it showed its age and there's something about that that like maybe screen rides might be shown. And this is gonna be curious to see, like will screen rides start to show their age a little bit more as we move forward? Like, you know, will there be a moment where it's like, oh, we've gotten better definition.

We've gotten better movement. We've gotten, you know, cause the real big thing with Spider-Man the ride is a similar thing that they do with Transformers was the drop, right? Where Spider-Man kind of catches you with the web and then pulls you up and you feel like you're you're going up the side of a building that i remember that being mind-blowing like when i saw that i was like forget about disney

islands of adventure that's where it's at this is a better theme park i'm all on board yeah um anyway that but i didn't feel that way post-Transformers Arrider. When did you do Spider-Man last? That's an important question. I did Spider-Man last. My kid is turning – I remember it very specifically. My kid is turning six this week. So I did it six years ago. I did it right after he was born.

I happened to be down in orlando and i had half a day and i bought that crazy pass so i could ride everything yeah universal uh i think at that point fast and furious was not open as a singular ride nor was the tonight show so i've missed those two but i so it was right before the tonight show opening up about a week before and uh and before fast and furious i got to do everything else but so what's the date here is this before because do So it was right before The Tonight Show opening up about a week before and before Fast and Furious. I got to do everything else. So what's the date here? Is this before?

Because do you know that Spider-Man had the like the read? They did do like a CGI revamp. They made it. What is the changes? It's 4K. It's a little bit like elevated. Yeah. Oh, OK.

There has been. But I don't remember the year on that. Do you know, Jason? Does anybody know? I'm going to look right now. That might have been earlier than you think. That might have been like 2012, 2014. Okay, okay.

Jimmy Fallon ride opened in 2017. Okay. So I believe, wait, so is that, yeah, that works out. So it was before Jimmy Fallon. So I'm riding this before pre-Tonight Show the ride. I think it's 10 years ago so it was before jimmy found so i'm riding this before pre tonight show the ride i think it's 10 years ago that it was upgraded a little before okay so this might be an issue that you're finding even beyond that or that something is like yeah unsatisfying about the generic nature of of that it could also be and then look i i i also put a lot up to it like

i've never seen dumb and dumber again because I enjoyed it so much that I feel like if I saw it again, I wouldn't laugh as hard. So like there are certain elements where you build up something so much in your your memory or your I like it so much. You know, there's never I feel like there's never like a real like first time again. And sometimes on these rides, like my first time on Rise of the Resistance, like if I could bottle that, I'll never feel that way again on rise. But the first time I wrote that it was like stunning and,

and mind boggling. If I never wrote it again, it would be, I mean, it still is epic in every single way, but the, that memory will never be like that memory is. I remember that.

And that's the way I felt about Spider-Man. And then when I wrote it on again, I was like, okay, I see the seams. Let me throw out a theory here about Spider-Man versus Transformers. And I don't actually know if this is true or not. But I believe you get, as a person, as a person who's in the ride vehicle, I believe you get your ass kicked a lot more on Transformers. Yes. I think you are getting just the shit kicked out of you the whole time on that ride so i feel like once you go to transformers and you go back on spider-man if you're not enjoying the spider visuals and the sinister six you are gonna go well what's the deal i'm used to

a certain level of uh of handling well this is what i'm talking about it's it's not like the iphone 8 was bad but now when you have the iphone 13 I'm used to some of the features there, and I'm going to be a little bit upset. It's not that the iPhone 8 was bad. It's just time has passed, and I can appreciate the iPhone 8 was amazing. Well, you know, some of us are still rocking an iPhone 8, and some of us still like Skyrim better. You know? I have something to say about what Mike just said, and this might be key to where all our opinions land, because if I haven't established

why I was a shitty five years ago is because I'm not the biggest fan of this ride. And Mike, what you just said, your ass getting kicked, I don't like that. I don't want that. I prefer a little smoother, and to me, the just caustic bumping all around is not a virtue.

It's not a good thing. Point of clarification. When you say you're getting your ass kicked, you're talking about real world getting jumbled around, getting bumped around, not storyline-wise. No, I'm talking about— You don't like losing to the Decepticons. Oh, no. You're getting, yeah, you're getting, the vehicle itself and the ride itself is shaking you and, like, vibrating you. And you're getting bumped around. And if you're really paying attention, your back is slamming into a hard piece of plastic over and over again.

And it happens a lot more on Transformers. And I love it. And now maybe we should just, and we don't have to move on from any arguments. But we are deep into an episode, or a little too deep, without having said that Mike has, and this is part of why we need you, Paul, is that Mike has started to say a couple things. I mean, you've always been a huge proponent of this ride. Yes.

But what it has morphed into recently is the possibility that Transformers the Ride is better than Rise of the Resistance. I haven't said. Again, I'm going to hold my tongue here. I want to hear some thoughts. I'm not going to come out with a gut response to that. But that's interesting.

And I did not know that. Now, can I bring up one thing about Transformers as well? Yeah, please. Of course. One of the things about Transformers to me that is so effective and i've said this and i i'm sorry if i said this on your show before it is my favorite transformers film like i don't think i don't think you're gonna find a disagreement okay so i so for me to go on a ride of a franchise that the feature film in which a feature film world that I hate besides Bumblebee, which I thought was very good, where I go on it and then leave a fan of the franchise. That's also giving me bonus points.

Yeah. Like that's also bringing it like I have to equate that in like the uh you know in when i'm weighing my opinion here like i'm not going in loving it star wars i love so it's going to be very you have to do very little uh to make me fall more in love i'm gonna i'm already there i'm already i want to see these characters i want to go there transformers i'm like yeah and i leave and i'm like wow i completely agree I have barely seen two Transformers movies I've been forced one time for charity to watch

a Transformers I have seen the first one and this will date it I mean it's not that long after it came out but I remember getting the DVD envelope in the mail from early days Netflix or I guess not that early because

it's like late 2000s mid-2000s um I have won it recently to not necessarily watch all of them but watch the weirder ones later where like Anthony Hopkins yeah Anthony Hopkins is in there talking about Transformers there's some moment where, like, I always talk. I've heard about this. I've seen this clip. But, like, Stanley Tucci is some sort of weirdo scientist. Oh, Tucci's loose in those movies. He's insane.

He's insane. At some point, he's drinking a bag, a Chinese bag of milk, like a company from there. It's weird forced product placement. Yeah, forced product placement yeah forced product placement because these movies are huge in china um but uh yeah i haven't seen it and then i heard people go and the reaction to bumblebee being like it was pretty good i was surprised it's pretty good that seemed like the vibe people said about bumblebee there bumblebee to me uh is one of those rare films where it's not michael bay directed and it's it's sort of just a coming of age story that happens to have a robot in it like so there are

some things about it that you're like oh i like this story uh i like this actress john scene is also in it uh you know so it is uh i just bought in i i was like and there are elements of the first transformers when i re-watched it a little bit with um you know shia labouf i'm like okay his parents are funny there are elements it's just yeah i never really connected to that franchise um i will say that um yeah it is it it seems to be so easy to make it yet so hard, but yet the ride gives me the visceral thing that I want. So it's like, you've delivered the thing that I want to see in movies. Why is it so hard to make what I just experienced a movie? I don't know. Maybe the movie should only be four minutes. I don't know. Yeah. or you have to get every uh transformers movie has

to be experienced in one of the 4d or the whatever you know which i'm all for now i just i not i'm here to be a moderator a mediator i would love to hear you know uh mike your opinion uh well like give me give me your top three reasoning you know your top three reasons of of the rise versus transformers i do want to just, yeah, I want to just dig into it. Cause I want to make sure it's not just a bombastic opinion, you know?

Cause I know you're very much like the Tucker Carlson of this show. Just because of the last name for sure. That's a part of it. Um, do we need to maybe go over the context a little of you guide it? Mike, this is your argument to make. But I think maybe one thing you don't know, Paul,

is that Mike not only enjoys the ride, there is a deep well of emotion that has been discussed on the show many times that comes from the ending of the ride. Is this an appropriate time for you to explain that, Mike? Oh, yeah, I mean, we have no structure here, so of course. What I realized when we were talking about Transformers once is that moments on rides that I really like explain that oh yeah i mean we worry of no structure here so of course um um what i realized

when we were talking about transformers once is that moments on rides that i really like uh a perfect example of is the end with optimus prime he explains and i think i incorrectly said what it was i think i said something along the lines of like i'm proud of you yeah that's the feeling that you leave with yeah you leave like he's yeah i'm very proud of you and something. Yeah, in our heads for a long time. That's the feeling that you leave with. Yeah, you leave like he's, yeah. I'm very proud of you. And he says, your bravery is. Right, yes.

There's a nice long, like heavy beat there for a theme park ride that's usually throwing stuff at you. You sit there. He really like takes his time to get down to your level

and he shoves his giant robot head what feels like two feet away from you, and he delivers this speech, and it feels good to me. I really like it, and I would compare it to something like on Star Tours when, and the new version of Star Tours, when C-3PO kind of looks at everybody and says like, it looks like we've just joined the Rebel Alliance, and there's like a good heavy beat there, and you get to feel like emotion, which doesn't often happen on a theme park ride, which is bombarding you with stimuli. So I have now, after talking about this, I don't know what you would say, fetishized? I'm not sure exactly.

Well, it's become this phrase of the moment of intimacy has been haunting the show for a long time. And I maybe built it up in my head and not experienced it for a while. Because I think this came up during pandemic. So then pandemic's over-ish and I finally get to go on it. So for the first time since this all came up and I go on the ride

and what I see is like big robot, like leaning in weird, like, and then you keep moving. I've found it inexplicable that you would have emotion for this moment that this somehow is to you what you think of this as like a watershed like a uh a heart song if you will in the in the history of rides it feels so long though compared to like the pace i'm used to on the ride it feels long in my mind i know it's

probably 15 seconds that it is a little stretched out more and we should say this is a longer this is like over four minutes which in theme park terminology that's pretty long but uh i'm i'm kind of i get where my is coming from scott i get where you come you're coming from because one of my big criticisms from with transformers is that if you're talking about paul you're talking about spider-man aging well i feel like transformers started aging well as soon as they like cut like it started aging as soon as they cut the ribbon like and maybe i just haven't written it at good times but it feels like the footage has always been smeary and has uh uh it's like when we saw like one of the Avengers movies and like this light bulb in the projector is burning out. I can't tell what's going on in some big moments.

You know what doesn't help for me either? And this is entirely, this is an effect of the pandemic. One of the worst effects of the pandemic, you might say, is that this ride and masks do not mix. Because you've got glasses on. It's crazy. It's jostling. It's already hard to make out what's going on. I felt like that's the first time I experienced Spider-Man, the new ride, the one in California Adventure.

Yeah. I experienced it that way. And I need to go back on because I feel like I did not. It was fine. Yeah. Right. Sure. That's where we've landed.

Admittedly. I don't know. I'm not sure if you, I hope you get past fine. Everybody should like everything, but sure. That's, I mean,

that's the hope. Yeah. That's our greatest wish. Coloring my perception a little, I did watch some ride throughs from opening day where like the the vlogger was clearly universal gave them media elements where it's like here's the footage not in 3d in full resolution god and it looks much better it looks great i mean the transformers have always looked a little CG, but in good shots, it kind of adds to their alien-ness

or their unreal-ness. And that is a compliment I will pay them. Let me ask you this, Paul. When Mike describes this moment, do you recall this moment? Does this resonate? Does the moment of intimacy land with you? 1000%.

Wow. 1000%. And you know why? land with you? 1,000%. Wow. 1,000%. And you know why? Because as you started to describe it, it brought me back to that moment. It brought me back to that ending moment where I do believe, again, a character I don't care for,

a character I have no emotional attachment to uh it feels like it acknowledges the journey that we just had right we did just have a journey we did i don't know if i did anything but i do like uh being thanked i do like uh you know i like that the uh there's a nice moment there and i think maybe what i'm experiencing also, and this sounds, now I'm going to maybe sound equally as silly, but the majesty of seeing this face up close, a true, like, what would it be like to look Optimus Prime in the eyes, right? So it's like, it is eye contact, which is the most- Hard eye contact. That's, yes. is eye contact which is the most hard eye contact that's yes long eye contact that's intimacy does so we got that it's in the eyes but then it's also like

wow this same moment just like soaring where it's like i am taking in something i've never really experienced on this level wow like i like it's it's majesty it's intimacy and you know uh somebody said this to me the other day we all like the gravy which is you know everyone likes a compliment and this is this character is saying because of us right we've succeeded so we're getting three very large things that i think all in the pyramid of things that humans need. We're just not getting food, but everything else is tended to. Perfect. I mean, a perfect way to describe it.

Much better than I could have even said it. And like you think of other times, even rides I love, like Guardians of the Galaxy. Chris Pratchett goes, thanks, everybody. And that's it. That's it. That's like so informal. He didn't get right up on top of you and looking in the eye. Well, Dave Bautista kind of ribs you. That's funny.

I like that. It's kind of a blackout guy. I think that's a funny little joke he says at the end. Why are you thanking them? He goes, they didn't do anything. That's funny. That is funny, yeah. But you know, once in a while That's a fling. This is love. This is a love. This Transformers scene is love. Yeah, it kind of is.

It kind of is. Why don't I feel what either of you are feeling? I don't get it at all. I think you're upset by the ride. I think you've been beaten up, and you don't like the feeling of getting beaten up. So you're sort of zoned out. Maybe you're zoned out, and you're not locked in. It's maybe lost me to where it's not going to win me back with that moment.

Or your heart isn't open. I figured I was putting myself up for that. The only other conclusion would be that it's an emotional issue. It's a blockage. Or your heart isn't open. If you're, I figured I was putting myself up for that. This was that the only other conclusion would be that it's an emotional issue. It's a blockage, emotional blockage. That I'm closed off. Jason's blocked too, though, if this is the case. I am a little blocked, but in my defense, it's more like I honestly forgot the DMs. Sometimes I forget the moment of intimacy discussions.

Like I get so into reading about the ride and watching videos in history. I forget our own lore. Jason, you're about the research. We know this. You're about the research. Too analytical. I'm a book idiot. And so I-

I just read so many books. I forget. That's the issue. I wish I could see over all the books in my house. No, Scott, I buy books. I'm slow at reading books, but I buy them. Oh, I'm right with you. They haunt me.

So basically what I'm saying is sometimes I'm Mr. Magoo-ing my way through the podcast, where I'm like a Mack truck is speeding by me, and I'm just like going about my day. Nice weather we're having. Has it gotten you there? Did like the magical, I was very enamored with the descriptions that both Mike and Paul gave. Does that help?

Are you now feeling the moment of intimacy? So would you say it's comparable to when Spider-Man gets on the hood of the vehicle and you're like staring

this guy you love in the face? He's your best friend. It's not even close to Spider-Man. It's not even close to Spider-Man. It's not even close to Spider-Man. I don't even like Spider-Man. But I'm saying it's close in the same. It's getting closer.

You're recognizing the idea I'm saying when you look at Spider-Man in the eyes. So he's very close to you on that ride. He's not quite as close as Optimus is, though. No, Optimus gets a little in your zone. Optimus pushes. He's in your comfort zone. He pushes past. Well, let like throw one thing at you like i believe the spider-man this is going to be a very i mean i know i'm opening myself up for a lot of criticism here but

the spider-man in the spider-man ride the the old one yes is um is of the cartoon variety right it is of the fox animation style it is and yes and i granted optimus prime is also cgi but there is an intimacy you know we talk about the uncanny valley i think that optimus prime actually uh is not that and i think that maybe spider-man you are maybe having that thing right i don't know if I can connect to a cartoon like that, but I can connect to this computer. A mask with no facial feet. The difficulties of masks is not just that it makes rides worse. It's that you don't understand the emotion on Spider-Man's face.

Yeah. Peter really should reveal himself to you at the end of the ride. I mean, I would love that. By the way. But they can't. Right. Pulls the thing up, and then he gets in everyone's face and says, thank you. I love you.

Mwah, mwah. Two kisses. One on each cheek. He gives you a little kiss, an Italian-style kiss. Sure. And then, yeah, moves on. That would be more. That would be closer.

As we're talking, I'm taking a look here at the 4K ride-through of Spider-Man. It's a little more time, like not timeless, but a little less glued to any one thing. And the way that the videos in the line are kind of in the style of the Fox cartoon, which is probably the Spider-Man iteration that made the biggest impression on me as a child. Of course.

Probably still how I hear the voice in my head, even more so than the movies. So my view is colored by that fact. And look, and by the way, yes, but it's still a cartoon and there's something about it. And I notice again, it's the difference to me of I enjoy Monsters, Inc. The Ride probably more than Men in Black The Ride because Men in Black The Ride, they're cartooning humans, whereas like whereas the Monsters, Inc. Ride, it's the same kind of ride that you're kind of experiencing. Like these things are popping out and you're going through this little town square. I mean, I guess you're shooting at one of those things.

But I don't know. There's a minute, like, I don't know. I think Spider-Man is, you know, he's hanging down in front of you at the end. He's looking at you. Sure, he's muscular, but there's no moment there. It's a shushed off moment, you know? Let me throw this out there.

Spider-Man on the hood, again, he's not as close as he should be. He's not revealing his human face to you. But also, he's like a guy you know and you're friendly with, and it's great to see him. Right. Of course he's going to thank you. Of course he's going to thank you, and he's going to be casual because he's your buddy, and he's going to see you next week, okay? Optimus Prime, it's basically like God is telling you you did a great job. His voice is that deep. Amen. This is as close as you can get to, I mean, yeah, God, royalty. This is a bigger deal. Peter Cullen's voice is the greatest, deepest voice. You would imagine that the father,

well, they call him the father, right? That's what he would sound like. He would have, yes, his head would be giant and perhaps look blue and robotic. Can I say this? This is going to be heresy to some people. I think all these voice actors are amazing. And of course, they absolutely are. Peter Cullen's great. It's Frank Walker on the ride. It's Megatron.

And it's great voices and great performances. But this is one thing I realized that is holding me back from loving this ride. There's a lot of confusion on my end about various things. And I didn't grow up with this. I don't know the difference between Autobots and Decepticons. I do now. I stared at it. i figured it out right but the ride doesn't really help me it's just i don't know which one's good and which one's bad one thing that doesn't

help me is that like okay optimus prime is like i'm optimus prime and megatron is like i'm megatron like you're we're like seven degrees apart right like these are not the one is good one's the epitome of good one's the epitome of evil and but they say the voices sound too similar i think so and then and mainly mainly just visually i was thinking like i it would help me if the characters would if they would wear like jerseys i think they they need jerseys. So like you want a little patch maybe. Like a little like red patches. Mean that they're bad guys. Blue patches.

They're good guys. Yes. Something like lightsabers. Yes. A color coordination. Because there's long sections of this ride where I don't know who's good and who's bad. And maybe that's good. Maybe you would consider that like, you know, a cinematic gray area.

Well, sure. I was going to say, is not Macduff that far removed from Macbeth? Is Iago that different from Othello? It's all you and your books. Back to your books. I couldn't disagree more. Megatron gray, Optimus blue and red.

He stands much more heroic. Megatron gray, Optimus blue and red. He stands much more heroic. Megatron is kind of hunched. I get him in the cartoon more, but in the filmic depiction, it's all just like metal to me. It's all just gears and metal. Yes, and so I agree with you. What I think where I,

I'm not looking for a hardcore uh a hardcore story i just need to understand we're against this person they're against that one like i'm not i agree at the root of your issue but i'm not debating whether or not transformers makes any sense more than do i understand what's going on in the ride and in in the ride, I certainly do. Really? Okay. Yes. Wow. I don't, why am I not? Again,

is this another case where my heart is not, and also, do I have an ally in this, in Jason? Do you understand what's happening in this ride? Well, I do understand

what's happening and I'm gonna credit that to the original ride character, Evac, who is, Oh, yes. has a little more personality than the other characters, who's a little more of a human voice.

He's competent, but he's in a little over his head, and he's got to do some crazy stuff to survive this. in the way that like uh uh i don't i didn't really connect with wheelie until i saw the ride video and realized it was tom kenney doing it you know i didn't have to do extra research about why should i be scared of star scream well star scream turns into a jet that's kind of obvious yeah he's awesome he doesn't turn into a pickup truck he turns into a fucking fighter pilot yeah he's cool at the end he does he goes shoots off you remember that yeah but this is another one of my things like i was trying to do the math okay i was trying to get him straight side swipe is good but star scream is bad yes ratchet is good yeah but ravage

is bad i i'll admit this i get get Megatron and Starscream confused. Okay, yeah. I do get some of the Decepticons confused because they're all fairly gray. I'm hearing these names and I'm ultimately dropping out. I don't know. And only because I'm like, I don't know.

I have no idea. I didn't. Until I started jotting down off of Wikipedia, I had no clue what any of this was. And that to me is, again, the problem with the movie and everything like that. Like, you know, it's just fighting robots, right? And some of them are, you know, one looks like a jet. The other one looks like a helicopter. One looks like an ambulance.

One is a Corvette. I don't know i i all i know is that uh you know um i got a job to do i got a job to do and yeah i'm gonna be i'm gonna be there but you're not worried you don't get caught up in the details maybe i'm too i'm trying to figure it out too much and i should just go along for the ride well this is i'm so glad because this is where i was going to segue to which is we're talking about two different experiences right i can say to you i love fast and furious right i think that that is a great film i also love jackie brown right jackie brown is a great film they're very different films i don't watch jackie brown when i want to see Fast and Furious and vice versa. And I believe we got to treat these rides. So I'm going back to Rise of the Resistance. Rise of the Resistance

is not a thrill ride like Transformers. I would even argue you can't even put them on the same level because A, we don't have glasses. We're not in 3d we're in a much more uh built up world uh we this is a a three-dimensional there there's so much going on and that right i almost feel like the comparison of the two is like um you know it's it's like uh oh my gosh i I mean, I'm hard, I'm hard pressed to even think of an insulting comparison. I am Mac and me and ET, you know, it's like, let's, you know, so in my mind, they're two very different experiences. So I go on Transformers, not expecting to follow a plot. I'm just like, get me from one place to the next. I'm falling, I'm flying and I'm driving. I'm going slow. I'm going high. I'm going low and rise i'm like let me let me take this in what am i supposed to be feeling what are

the story points what are the emotions now where i think you know what mike is saying is very valid transformer stress has a cake you need it too which is at the end they go oh by the way this is actually an emotional ride you were supposed to care about this and and we're going to send you on your way and you're like oh i do feel love so they're leaving you at that that moment like hey who cares if the rest of the movie was good at the end we told you we gave you something and you're gonna latch onto that you're gonna walk out the door happy so i i think that you know transformers is very smart and trying to do that it's not like the mummy the mummy straight up thrill ride mummy it's like you fly in and out there's is there a story i don't i don't know i'd barely uh so anyway that's

all i'm going to say is i think it's i think that they're very too they're two different rides so i almost find uh mike's idea insulting to compare well that's fair i mean i would say that the great roger ebert uh would say about films that you have to judge a film based on what the people were trying to do and if they achieved what the goal was. And when I talk about Transformers versus Rise of the Resistance, I'm thinking about did they accomplish what they are trying to do, what they're showing me? And also, did they provide me the feeling I would get that I would want from seeing the movie? Is it the ultimate version of it?

And I would say like an Indiana Jones is almost the ultimate version of it and i would say like an indiana jones is the almost the like ultimate version of indiana jones sure i buy that's pretty i agree with everything that you said and transformers is the ultimate i mean look we're talking about it now so i may as well just get i have some slides i've prepared as well so i'm very excited about this so brett if you would put up the slide one, please. So, yeah. So when I'm talking about that, obviously, I know there are two different ride systems. One is obviously like almost a decade newer. Let's describe some things for the just listeners.

But go to the Forever Dog YouTube if you want to see it. Is Transformers better than Rise of the Resistance? There's the statue, the thinker. The thinker is on the first slide. Pondering the great questions of man. Exactly. So, yeah. So if we're just judging, oh, yeah, technological advancement or whatever, that's out the window.

I'm really assessing as a person who's seen some Transformers and has seen a lot of Star Wars, did these two things. Which one accomplishes the mission more then again i haven't said definitively what i believe this is why the focus up here so we're talking you're just asking questions i'm just asking like a tucker carlson type i'm just asking questions just yeah just putting it out there some people have said some people are saying you should try to do the face throughout this, the flustered, like. So is it better? Is it?

Is it? By the way, I think that what you're saying, I just want to, before we even go forward, I want to say that I'm excited for this. I'm going to look at this with a very open mind. Perfect. Great. We've been in the trenches too much. That's why we needed you, Paul.

Okay. We're all sick. We're annoyed with each other. We're all sweating out in the garage hour after hour. Paul can help clarify. Right. So, yeah. So basically my mission statement I've kind of already said.

But, yeah, I'm judging these two. Do they accomplish what they have set out to accomplish? And do I feel satisfied in my experience of experiencing the movie, the franchise, the IP? All right. So let's go to slide two, please. OK, first of all, let's talk characters here. Now, Rise of the Resistance is a long, much longer ride, a much more detailed, much more varied experience because obviously there's multiple pre-shows, the queue is very

long. But I would say that when you look at the number of characters that appear in Rise of the Resistance, there are a lot less than on Transformers. Now, Michael, please read some of these slides for our folks. Some of the great characters that didn't get to meet.

I didn't say great. Never did I say great. Don't put words in his mouth. All right. I'll back off. I'm listening to someone who at this point does not seem insane. At this point. Right now.

Even though the thought to me is an insane comparison. But no, I'm the insane one for putting great. I'm not saying. For thinking that great might factor in. Never said great. Now, again, we know at this point that you have a hard time parsing out what people are saying and what they mean. Yeah, that's true. So you put words in people's mouths.

I got to back off. I got to back off. Media Matters is going to put a Scott Gairdner page up and go to go to task if he says if he has a word to some sentence I'm trying to say. Well, also, I mean, there's going to be a Mike Carlson part of that, too, because you have clearly not ranked important like General Morshauer. It's very low on your list compared to evac and Optimus Prime. Obviously, they're going to be first, but I feel like General Morshauer should get a little more credit. This is not a ranked list, and I'll read it real quick. Transformers, we have Evac, Optimus Prime, Bumblebee, Sideswipe, Megatron, Bone Cruncher,

Ironhide, Wheelie, Ratchet, Ravage, Starscream, Grinder, Sideways, General Morshauer, and Theodore Stallworth, who, of course, is in the pre-show and explains what's going on. Yeah. Now, Grindor, of course, he's only in the ride for a second because he looks at his big robot phone and he goes oh uh i'm sorry i gotta go uh actually someone just messaged me he is the app grinder come to life yeah what you're saying yeah he is the hookup app grinder uh and on rise we have fin ray poe bb8 hawks general hawks kylo Lieutenant Beck, Nine Numb, and some Stormtroopers. And it's like...

A good number of Stormtroopers. A good number of Stormtroopers that are all mannequins. They're all static. A couple of them wake up in the room. A couple of them wake up. So, okay, there's a lot more characters already with Transformers. Star Wars, I'm trying to... Also, I'm trying to take my bias out about this being the newer three and not anything even against the newer three. I obviously

would like all nine movies to be represented, but that's not even what I'm talking about. I feel these characters, once you even get out of the queue, once you get out of Beck's ship, you don't see them a lot. You see some, Kylo you see a lot of, but they're not as prevalent in the experience as Transformersers which constantly has a giant robot in your face you're constantly interacting with them did you count the the character that is on your car talk about intimacy oh you're right i'm sorry there we go i'm sorry i'm talking i'm saying it there is a character in your car and that's intimacy that's true he's like i mean look it's is it a rip off of Evac? A little bit.

Just a little bit. Because Evac is already there. Straight to media matters with you. All right. Continue this charade. Let's go to slide three. I think it's slide three. So what happens on Rise?

Okay. You walk through the dirty line. You chat with Ray and BB-8. You walk outside into the elements. Lieutenant Beck's ship part. You see his smiling face. You see all the stormtroopers they're all mannequins they're all standing there it's kind of cool so many there's like

okay i would i'd like to offer up you know mike i believe that if you are presenting this argument yeah you cannot be uh presenting bias like you are all right you're right you're right you're not walking into a room of mannequins. You're walking into an impressive loading dock. Many stormtroopers. And one of the biggest screens you've ever seen. We don't make Santa think screens are a virtue, but that vista into space is so grand, it's a jaw dropper.

I saw your jaw. We were all, all four of us were there. We saw the jaw. I will say this. Lieutenant Beck part is my favorite part of the whole ride. Seeing Lieutenant Beck getting up close, getting up in his face is what I like. And you saw me probably do it at the time. You mean to a real figure that you're in a room with?

Well, I said, that's my favorite part. I agree that he is in there, but that's not even the part of the main part of the ride. Okay. Okay. So then you wait in the line a while. Smaller line. You crane your neck to see Hux and Carlo. I didn't see you wrote rip-off.

This is a very, you know, if I'm here, I watch a lot of court TV. I would say objection, Your Honor. This is, you know, I would say something more legal, but I would say at this point you're creating a false narrative. You're clear, you're purposefully presenting negative versions of this. If you want to present the facts, present the facts. But you cannot be painting it with any sort of, you know, any sort of brush. Because I feel like so far you're losing me on this okay

which part got you because i i'm sorry i stopped to point out that you wrote evac rip off in the text what was oh wow what were you red flagging specifically craning your neck to see like i there's no issue to the they're like you gotta go oh it's like like the high screens on the transformer ride which are sometimes your vision is blocked by the severe side of the vehicle that you are often pressed up right against. But you I always go front row. So I've never actually experienced that. Well, Mike, I'm going to say the ride, the evac style vehicle that doesn't bump me bump for me. That doesn't rub me the wrong way. But I'm seeing,

I'm not seeing you mention that Rise of the Resistance involves an elevator segment. Transformers also involves a secret elevator segment. And one of the guys overseeing the Star Wars stuff, Scott Trowbridge,

was involved in the Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man. He's an elevator man. Yeah. He's an elevator man. Yeah, he's an elevator man. That's a – I'll say it. I have thoughts about the elevator. I'll finish reading this, and I will take any bias. I will rephrase everything to make it sound –

I think you need to come in with your plan. I think you – Oh, okay. Paul can flag it when he feels the need. Give us your set. Give us your type 5. Pretend you're at the belly room giving your type five at midnight, you know?

Okay, yeah. So, okay, the ride the evac ripoff vehicle on the dirty floor that has all the lines on it from the other vehicles. There's a hole in the wall and it opens. Yes, that is technically what happens. I am not going to stop it at every point. I'll stop it when I feel like stop it at every point. Okay.

I'll stop it when I feel like it's egregious. Okay. At that point, two stormtroopers see you, and you hear them shoot at you for a little while, which is scary. What do you mean? There's holes in the wall. There's a light or two with a shoot at you. Things, walls that you don't know are screens that become screens. Is that point i think that's later it's more than meets the eye such i mean you are losing your audience you're losing your audience like here's what i would say right

okay go ahead you can i mean like i'm just trying i'm trying to help you present you because you can't you can't look at us and say one of the most impressive new rides of all time from a technological storytelling perspective is this. Like you're treating it like, well, I mean, they got this gunky, junky thing. Now, if you're talking about Smugglers run i may have i could say okay yeah maybe it's a little bit more you know the actual ride doesn't really have that much but there's got a lot of you can't you cannot shit on the literally the world building and the and the uh the ride itself is top notch it is top notch it may not give you the same experience but you are really ripping this ride as if you're

opened up. Like, it's like, you remember when you get like those Sonic Pops, like from a, from an ice cream truck and the image of the Sonic Pop is so amazing. Oh, I can't wait to eat the Sonic Pop when you open it up and it's like a melted Sonic or a melted Donatello. Like, that's, you know, that's how you're describing this ride. Like, it's like, it's always the melted. It's, it's never achieved. Then you's always the melted. It's never achieved.

Then you can't do that. Okay. All right. Well, okay. So then you go by. You squint and you can see Finn robot and he's like 25 feet away. Because it's really hard. You got to poke your guy next to you.

He is kind of wedged in there. And you really only can. It's a fun little. All right. Okay. Okay. We're almost done. We're almost done.

We're almost done. It's supposed to be wedged. It's a. We're almost done. He's hiding. He wedged. It's a... He's hiding. If he was out in the open, he'd get shot. He'd get blasted to pieces. We're almost done. It is a cost-cutting statue, not a animatronic.

We're almost done. It is a statue. Okay, so then you kind of... How many animatronics are in Transformers? Go. Everyone say the amount. Well, it did cost $100 million versus the half a billion dollars it took to build. Jason's still wedging the facts.

Rise of the Resistance. There's panic setting over you. What if I don't get the facts? We all have our little things we like. You get shot at by the AT&T if you're lucky. If not, there's another you get shot kind of again. But you want to get shot

by that AT&T. Then Kylo, I misspelled it as Kyle, kind of chases you. You see the bridge, you see the me. Then Kylo, I misspelled it as Kyle. Kyle kind of chases you. And that's cool. I mean, you see the bridge, you see the robot. There is a robot of Hux and Kyle there. Wow, that's Kyle.

That looks exactly like Kyle. And then you get to the big gun room. And I will say this, I love the big gun room. Big gun room is very impressive. I'm a huge fan of the big gun room. My second favorite part of the ride other than the Lieutenant Beck stuff. The big gun part, awesome. Now, can I talk to you about, like, this is the moment where you can shit on Rise. And you go, gun room, while impressive, seemingly is the part of the ride that never works and always breaks down.

That's true. And breaks the entire thing. Like, that gun room is. Is that it? Is that why it closes so often? I don't think I knew that. That gun room is. Is that it? Is that why it closes so often? Yeah, that gun room is the source of all issues in life, from what I understand. I believe there's a story about when they were first testing that room, one of the guns was a little off and hit the wall and shook the building. That's how strong those guns are.

I will say this in your defense, to your point. You're talking about fulfilling the intention of the people who made the ride. If the intention was for Rise of the Resistance to be open a lot, they have not necessarily made good on that intention. That's true. So, yeah, the big gun part is awesome. At that point, you really, yeah, you got battle damage on the wall, which I do like. And then you see Kyle again, the Kyle robot, and he gets uh blown up and that's cool hopefully that's working also that's another issue i think but luckily they have the the fix which is the screens well that's very

which is a good smart thing to do that scene shares a little with the um transformers ride uh in that it's kind of hard to tell what the fuck is going on. It's kind of a nod. It's a ripoff. It's kind of a nod. It's kind of a nod. A mode or B mode? It's smeary. Yeah, yeah, that's true.

So then you go and you get in the little pod, and it's the screen part where you're flying down, and then you go outside, which is cool, and you see Beck again, who's my guy. And then it's impressive that you're outside. We've talked about this before. It's impressive that you're outside and the thing goes in. You're delivered right to the

pinpoint accuracy to your gate where you step off in awe all four people in this discussion in awe of what they just experienced now I will say this I'm going to go out I've heard your argument I'm not going to jump in right yet

we have more to say but I'm going to say this if we are just talking about what ride works the best i will say hands down transformers day and night there are there there is no comparison transformers is a a better functioning yeah ride as i have been on uh rise of the Resistance probably five or six times and easily. Three or four of those times it has shut down in the middle of the ride. Yeah. So I'll say this, too, if in terms I've been to Disneyland a lot of times since the ride open and there are a lot of days, days i would say where i don't feel like the doing the hassle of getting on that ride of maybe losing a bunch of time to waiting in a row in a line where then it gets shut down and that like there are downsides to deciding today is a rise of the

resistance i i uh i went to florida and i had the same issue we uh we got on we got in there we did the whole thing and and it and it died midway through yeah i was down in florida uh last fall with my family tried multiple times they had just stopped the like the week before we're there they just stopped the virtual queue so we got there at early park opening went to get in line ride shut shut down. Another day, tried, end that day, tried to buy the $15 whatever Genie Plus add-on. Too many people doing it at 7 a.m. Freaking out. Put it in the cart. Went to check out.

Gone from the cart. Error messages. So my girlfriend and I have ridden it. My dad and brother, who do not live next to a Disney park, have not, didn't get to it. Yeah. That's rough. That's rough. Look, if I, okay, I'll drop 50% of the, I'll drop 50% of the kayfabe real quick here.

If we're also talking about, okay, this is the ultimate Star Wars ride. This is how it was always presented. And that's no bullshit. That's how it was like, this is the ultimate number one ride this is how it was always presented and that's no bullshit that's how it was like this is the ultimate number one thing star wars ride you're gonna get to experience star wars and it's like the queue i feel like builds you up perfectly you get exactly sort of that experience that you would want but i do and i've said this before on the ride uh on podcast the ride i've said that i don't, I feel like the big trick. And where can I listen to that show? It's around, it's on things.

All right, good. Wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. The Forever Dog now? Forever Dog. Is that the big trick of the ride is scope. And that's kind of it. As far as like, if you're actually under siege, you're getting shot at by stormtroopers,

you're not getting sort of the visceral thrills that you're getting on indiana jones because the ride vehicle the ride vehicle is very smooth so i kind of feel like if you were going to do a thing where you explore a big star destroyer i do want more character stuff if i'm not going to get jostled by blasts if i'm not going to get attacked by probe droids or if like stuff is not going to happen to me like an indiana jones where you're constantly like your body is in terror i are first of all i disagree with it i've talked i've talked to so many people about indiana jones now i i don't know about you guys i've never stared into the eye on the indiana jones really a normal ride i've had a very normal ride through caves

oh it's just regular talking about a much more intense experience we've always gone through the right door you guys know you guys have not had that experience it's a totally yeah no it's the lights are off and it's there's lasers yeah yeah very smooth ride you've done the jurassic boring anyway yeah you've done the jurassic park like you guys yeah wow that's crazy here's what i'll say about the star wars experience right if we're gonna i without getting into a larger star wars conversation feel free to dispute this but i'm just saying like i don't need to break down the prequels and all that bullshit but the idea of star wars ultimately on some level is you get sucked up, you get trapped, you got to get out. Right.

Like that's like that is Star Wars one. Like that is Star Wars number one in the prequels. That is Star Wars number one in the in the sequels. Like. Right. And that's what it gives you. It gives you the generic. Yes.

Kyle is there. But it gives you a pretty generic idea. Like if you want it to be the death star it's the death star you know you get you get brought in we see familiar characters from a bunch of different worlds but it doesn't set itself in like a um a time frame it's not like okay this is post rise this you know it could i think it can be enjoyed ultimately uh as an evergreen experience for the most part yes ray is there yes kylo ren is there but the experience the ride that you're getting is the most star wars type of experience which is we all want to go to the death star we

want to be captured by stormtroopers we're getting all that we don't have darth vader would it be better to darth vader yeah sure sure but you know uh but at the same time what darth vader and kylo ren are giving me if you change the mask it would be the same ride ultimately it is missing a central component of star wars which is british character actors from very the ages of very young to very, very old. Yes, that is true. I could use some very old. I mean, I'd love an old CG Grand Moff Tark, deepfake Grand Moff Tark in Rogue One. I'd love that. I mean, yeah, we can do it. We can build it.

We want to do it. But yeah, so I guess really what, if I was plussing that ride up after I've been on it a couple of times, it's like, then I would go, okay, you go into a room, a little room, and Rey's there and she summons an old Jedi master and it's Yoda or it's like, then I would go, okay, you go into a room, a little room, and Rey's there, and she summons an old Jedi master, and it's Yoda, or it's Luke. I feel like it's missing some of this warmth that I want to feel.

It's missing some of the intimacy. I know it's about scope, so if it's just because there's limitations on the vehicle, and we're not going to get a crazy sort of fight-or- flight response that our bodies give you on transformers. I do want a couple scenes where I feel the, the different feelings of star Wars, not just sort of the scope of being on a star destroyer. And it can be with Ray. It can be with the other ones,

Finn and Poe. I could be any of those characters and then to be with my, my guys doesn't need to be with Dexter Jetster, even though of course I would like that the best. be with my guys. It doesn't need to be with Dexter Jetster, even though, of course, I would like that the best. Of course you would. Do you want Han to say, I know, to you? Do I want to kiss Han and have him say,

I'll say I love you, and he says, I know. Yes, I do want that. But yes, so I guess that's really what I feel it's only kind of giving you one slice of Star Wars on the actual ride. I'm not getting emotional, I swear my voice just cracked. Just giving you one slice of Star Wars on the actual ride

and you're missing a lot of the other stuff that I like from Star Wars that you could have put in there because the ride is such not a direct thrill ride. I feel like you could have put in more moments of warmth and intimacy, the things that I like from Star Wars. The training or or

calling upon the history of the jedi that's what i'm first of all yes i'm gonna say this now too i think and i'm sorry that i'm saying i should i'll shut up no no no no i believe that the idea of uh galaxy's edge right this outpost is that every experience when put together would give you the whole of the star wars experience right so smugglers run is very specific it's very different than rise um i believe that there are other out you can build a droid you can build a lightsaber like so all in all not this is not a world in which we're getting three pirates right well like we've in the past we've had one ride right one ride and that ride kind of um has to encompass everything here like transformers one ride has to encompass everything this has the ability to be like this is just yet one flavor because part

of your job in the star wars universe might just be being captured. One might be building a lightsaber. One might be building a droid. One might be running a, you know, getting some mining equipment back, whatever it is. You know, so I think there is that element to it that I think you can't fault. I think that's by design. Yeah. I mean, I think I agree.

I hear what you're I agree with what you're saying. It is, though, like, I mean, maybe it's just because, I heard they're canceling maybe the Galaxy's Edge in Paris. There's a rumor of that happening. So part of me feels like this was the shot at the half a billion dollar Star Wars ride. And don't get me wrong. It is obviously really great. I still haven't decided if I think it's better or worse than Transformers, but obviously it's really great. It's really impressive.

I like a lot of it. Mr. Carlson, Mr. Carlson, I'd like to hear some of your arguments in favor of Transformers. Well, we're going to get there, right, one second after I finish this, but now I feel like maybe this was it. This was the shot we had, and I feel like- And I feel like only 99% of the audience likes it. They really blew it with that one.

I'm just saying, I think I make some valid points. And obviously, it's a great ride. But if it's the be-all, end-all Star Wars ride, I feel like there's some things I would approve. Take away Star Wars and just say, is it one of them? If only. wars and just say i wish one of them if only is it because i do believe this to be true i believe it is one of the best rides like just yes technological just i didn't say it i didn't say it wasn't i didn't say it wasn't what these little things you pull i never i don't know i wash my hands follow me oh my look at the tape look at the tape i whatever this is is so annoying to me i know read the

transcript that's part of the show i do this on the show to get a rise you can't rise yeah your your issue is while it is one of the best rides ever yes it is not fulfilling the promise of star wars so hence transformers might be because it's fulfilling the promise of transformers yes yes because the bar is so low it's on the floor you could just step over it maybe you've never seen the bar maybe you didn't know the bar existed or just never had interest in looking at the bar. Yes, exactly. And to give you like one, I'll give you like a piece of my like where I fall on the other side. The mistake was, I think.

Not of being so hard and fast with. No, Darth Vader, no Chewbacca, no, you know, these, these rules that they made for galaxy's edge, I thought was actually a very dumb move. And they've now retcon that a little bit.

And I think some of these rides suffer from living in this world of post Vader post Han, like that's probably the biggest era of star Wars land. Like in my, in my mind, it did. And it did no favors to the ride. I think when we saw leaked footage or footage,

excuse me, art of the original crazy ticket, they were going to build in tomorrow land of star Wars, which had like a day go by swamp scene. And then there was a death star scene. Like it felt like, okay, that's like the greatest hits star Wars ride and then you start to go something you saw avatar boat ride could be

that's something you saw as an adult yeah that was never close to getting built right 40 years ago but the vibe was oh that is the ultimate ride. That is the ultimate Star Wars ride. I guess so. That's what I'm saying. For you. For me, sure. That's interesting, yes. Sure.

There was also the hypothetical plans before Disney bought Star Wars where it's like, okay, there's going to be a desert section. There's going to be a Hoth section. And when they were going to try to cram it into Tomorrowland at Disneyland, it's like, all right, we're going to plant a bunch of trees here and have a high speed speeder bike chase as if you're on endor right and they'll put the falcon above the land and you can walk through it right let me say this before we get to and we'll get to the next slide uh but i since i suspect that it is uh it is i it's possible to me that it could be full of nonsense. So let me say a real argument.

In this dry delineation of Rise of the Resistance, and I'm going to go back to what Paul said and take Star Wars out of it. It is a ride where there's a ride in the line. There's like tons of steps to it and like role playing with the cast members and all this stuff and then the what you say as screen ride part is where your trackless vehicle drives itself into a simulator which performs a drop now here's a real argument that i wanted to make to you because i did uh transformers the other day and i i hear your point about like you get maybe more visceral movements and thrills and stuff out of Transformers. And maybe can't argue with that.

But in terms of I think you're underrating the rise up to the level of the ad ads and then the drop at the end. I genuinely don't think. And I think if you were somehow able to do them one after the other, I genuinely don't think that there's a single thrill in transformers as much as big as the drop towards the end i really do believe that for me because i know there's elevator and you go up in that but it's not as good as spider-man i don't think in terms of a big drop at the end for me that's that's my i think you can't discount,

I think you're underrating, there's not a lot of thrills, but you're underrating a little bit of thrills on that. Here's how I feel about it too. And look, it's very easy to kind of figure out how all these things are done if you want.

I treat Rise like a magic trick that I don't want revealed. I don't want to know. I'm sure I could really overly think about it and discover it. But I truly feel, and even when it's broken down, don't want revealed i don't want to know i'm sure i could really overly think about it and and discover it but i truly feel and even when it's broken down a sense of awe like there is a there are awe there are awe moments awe-inspiring moments in that ride that transformers simply

does not have that no ride before rise has had ultimately, in my opinion, the scope. Yeah. That's what I was saying before the scope of rise. Yes. Is, uh, probably, uh,

there's no other comparison to anything that has sort of that. Wow. Environment. Yeah. Right. Holy shit. I mean, I guess India,

when you come in and the temple, yeah, there's a, there's a, there's a few of them. Like Indy is an upgrade of hauntedunted Mansion on some level, right? I'm just saying in a very bare bones scenario, you'd switch it out.

Indy is Dinosaur, which was already at Animal Kingdom. No, it's the opposite. But yeah. But whatever. It is just a track ride that you're going through. It's cool. It's big. It's Indy.

But I don't get anything from indiana jones on that ride i don't feel like the all the fun of indiana jones it's fun i don't get a person and obviously there's no personality because it's not harrison ford and the guy does his voice is like get out of here well you know it's like it's just a it's a huff and a gruff and you know you get more from uh from what's his face from um sala you know but it's like yeah for sure pre-show that's pre-show bullshit right and i would say though indy is not uh a warm guy so i'm not looking for the same warmth from indy with mutt well if mutt i if the transformers version of pirates johnny depp

if mutt was hanging from the ball in front of the ball now because they installed it during Crystal Skull. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, and they were playing like rock around the clock and he's combing his hair. Yeah, sure. Sure, sure. I've just been to Specsavers and upgraded my lenses to extra thin and light with 50% off. Now, what else can I upgrade?

My cat? Wow. My scooter? Oh, yeah. Get 50% off lens upgrades in the Specsavers Spring Sale. Hey, I can upgrade my kids. You chill, Mom. I'll load the dishwasher.

Awesome. Exclusions apply. See Specsavers.ca for details. Offer ends soon. Let's get to this slide. We'll just go to the next slide. We can go all through it. It's fine. We don't have to belabor this point.

No, of course. Oh, no. You want to go beat by beat for this one? I'll go quickly. What happened on Transformers? You can learn from the great Theodore Stallworth. Then Bumblebee fights Megatron. He grabs the AllSpark. It's so very exciting.

You head into the city at a frenetic pace. And then Optimus is like, roll out. And it's awesome. You're rolling. You feel like you're rolling. That's, hang on. Get that word out of there. You didn't put words like that in the first description.

You can't, you're not allowed to say it. We already know this. Roll out, roll out is one of the few Transformers things that I do know. Yeah.

That is one of the things that sticks in my mind. I have no problem with that. It's the word awesome. You are putting your opinions into this. Okay, fair enough. So you fight Megatron,

you're going through the city. Now, this is a good question. I will say, Megatron's the one with the blades or is that Starscream? I think it's Megatron, right? He's got the blades.

You're asking the wrong people. You don't even know. The right thing you're saying is better. Well, whoever has the blades, it's thrilling going that close to the blades. You sort of slow down. I don't want to get too far off topic here and get off your flow here. But like, okay, we just breezed past

AllSpark. This is one of the biggest things. What the fuck is the AllSpark? Who fucking cares about cares about the all spark are you invested in the it's like a mcguffin that i love the all spark i do love i do legitimately okay fabe whatever uh i'd love the all spark at this point because i've been on the ride so many times but why did you love it the first time i didn't say i loved it the first time. Ah! Ah! I mean, Evac and Theodore Stallworth. You're watching the end of the podcast, Paul. Paul, what do you think of the fucking Allspark? You like the Allspark.

The fucking MacGuffin. Who cares what the Allspark is? I gotta grab the thing. It's fun to say. He might as well say you must protect the Maltese Falcon. You must protect the Infinity Gauntlet. But you said, what's one thing? Give me one specific about the Allspark. The name of it.

I like saying the name of it because I've been on the ride so many times. Like Allspark. And he said Allspark. If you said toilet. It's all couched in the amount of time. He said you must protect my toilet. I would say toilet's great. It's completely in the context of the ride that I like this phrase.

I understand what you're saying it has a cool name it doesn't mean anything you can't say I like the all spark you could say you love it but you could say you like the Maltese Falcon and who gives a shit about that this is a thing genuinely

that pulls me out of the ride I think I do need to care about the goal if I don't understand what the goal is and what the allspark does and i have to watch like a bunch of pre-show videos to get it that's all it is like a little nuclear bomb like a nuclear battery that could be in the wrong hands could be devastating to the world and in the right hands my my my monkey brain is sort of like uh i'm just like okay it's a battery and these robots need batteries i think and i like this argument this makes sense to me but if you're asking me to care

and for stakes to matter i think i do need to understand and care about the all spark okay and i you have not no one has made me do it it's a little battery well i mean it is protected in a nest facility which by the way, stands for Non-Biological Extraterrestrial Species Treaty. That's true, yeah. This is another thing that I want to bring up, because now I'm getting into a few things that I

feel like... I always thought the promise of the premise of these screen rides was that they would be rebooted every five years. Right? And that's what they've done to a certain extent with star wars the ride uh star tours and to great success in my opinion uh but why aren't we doing this why aren't we why aren't we upgrading these rides why aren't we changing some features why aren't we having a rotating screen why is it so hard you know on these rides they're primarily screen based that we can't we have in a rotating screen why is it so hard you know on these rides

that are primarily screen based that we can't just you know every five years swap them out and so to me rise is an art piece and it's a locked in art piece you can't change it there's no there are screens but they're used to the effect of like you're not wearing 3d glasses you're in an environment you've transported yourself to a world this i am at a cool 3d movie i'm at a 4dx show and this is me talking about as a fan of this ride it's the best 4dx ride i've ever been on i didn't like jurassic park the new one the reboot uh but i saw the first one uh in 4dx and it made that experience 10 times better i said to people like when they said i hated that first movie like well see it in 4dx because at least you're feeling like you're on a ride and that's

and that's sometimes what you need yeah that makes sense uh yeah they should be able to like put new robots in here and there just something at least in the background something it's like how hard is it to do that like you've already built the infrastructure like i can't imagine that film in the programming is that intense yeah like that is like cost prohibitive i think yeah like with star tour they have i will give star tours credit because they have changed they've put new stuff in it took a long time yeah they now do it but that was the promise of the premise back then too like it was like okay we're gonna keep on we're always gonna add new things you'll never know what you're gonna get like that's what we want i mean that's that's the re the

rewatch ability that's like you know it's like i love going on these rides but like but if you're doing a screen thing that's should be part of it is like oh we can change it up we can we can make these elements feel different it would be fun if they could do like a full cartoon style transformers overlay where you go on it and it looks just like the old cartoon or something like that would be awesome. I think that would do it. I think that would all, it's all it would take for me. Is that true? I think so. I genuinely don't like it aesthetically. That's a big

thing maybe I haven't vocalized that holds me back because I don't like the movies aesthetically. I just see a bunch of gears. I recognize that I'm sure you'll say some good stuff about when you go into the mouth of a grinder or whatever. Oh, I love it. Oh, that's Devastator.

Devastator, yeah. Devastator, all right, yeah. Devastator's trying to get you in his mouth, I wrote. He's specifically a Constructicon, which is a subdivision of the other types of Transformers. He's a Constructicon, yeah. I think it looks silly when you're looking at all the Gears grinders. That looks like you're in the video that plays before the movie starts in a Lowe's theater in 2003. Maria Menudo should be welcome to the portal.

And that's the 20. I both agree with what you're saying, but I also love it. And I love it when you're vibrating and they're rocking your spine. See, this is what I hate about this because I like Transformers and you're making me argue against it. And I think the more I think about it, the more I'm like, well, this is what i hate about this because i like transformers around you're making me argue against it and i think the more i think about it the more i'm like well this is

dumb it is dumb uh but it is a fun ride it's it's like a water it's like it's like me overanalyzing a water slide right i'm like oh that was a fun water slide but if i'm starting to think about like well is it that great this is that and this is this but like we're star wars is gonna hold up to any sort of it's gonna it's gonna hold water let me bring you back okay i think you'll agree with me on this all right so when there's a fist fight in this ride between the robots you feel every punch and i'm not no bullshit i like as a kid when you're playing with toys or as an adult in his 30s you're playing with toys and you're making the sound effects and you're going like you like kind of desired

to feel the impact. And this is like on one of the only rides where you're watching fights and it feels like you can feel the reverberations of the robots and it's a gun vehicle based. It's my body slamming, but like every impact is so like well sound effected. And I feel like you feel every fight.

It's like Raging Bull. You feel the impact of the punches. I will grant you that, and I'll grant that some of the big moments in this ride, I do like, despite not knowing a lot about the characters, being that attached to them, I do like going through Devastator because it's like a gag I recognize from cartoons.

Character gets eaten by a lion or character gets eaten, comes out the other side. Like Ace Ventura. Ace Ventura classic. I don't quite understand. I think the Allspark is very powerful. Is it unlimited power? I think that might be the Guffin element. So like when Evac says no more running

and you kill Megatron, it's the old trick of like, you want it so much, have it. And the character shoves the crystal in the other character's brain or something. He punches through his chest and you feel the impact of it. And it's like,

if you're a kid who played with this, although, by the way, not a Transformers kid. Wow. You're all this. Never owned a Transformers in my life. Scott, do you know that Transformers was one of the things where it's like this was a toy line first and they re-engineered that not only i was wondering that yeah it was a character from like two japanese toy lines that

they kind of repackaged for american audiences and then kind of gradually came up between the cartoon and the comic books came up with characters and names and expanded and stuff. Very similar to the G.I. Joe cartoon toys of the 80s and 90s. Not to plug my own thing, but when I did my Marvel 616 doc, I spoke to the gentleman they brought in. I did it all about brute force, which was the idea to do a toy line into a comic book into uh it was basically a toy line reverse engineered into a uh you know a bigger ip um and i talked to the definitive transformers writer and then we had like a giant section about that that i would love to have gotten out there but it was

totally off topic but yeah like it's amazing like this guy named the majority of trans like everything that we know about transformers is because this guy was assigned this is a british marvel writer uh who just was like you got to take on this thing and he really has created most of it just because of it was the only work he could get wow yeah it's so it's so fun like there's that masters of the universe documentary that's on there was on netflix at least probably still is. And it's just a bunch of people sitting around the office going, ah, it's a skeleton bad guy. Skeletor.

Okay. His name's Skeletor. Meanwhile, cut to now, and it's just like- Everybody's hyper analyzing every bit of it. I think, Mike, this thing of wanting to get punched, I don't want it. That doesn't, that's not fun to me. And I think this is just one of those, this is just opinion, because you so many times bring up like i want my douchey vegas pool parties oh i love it and i don't understand that one either then i think those are very similar i just i want neither

i can speak mike on this because i agree with i there are there are things that I like, but you can't compare the two. Like, I mean, it's like, you can't compare like, um, a private Island and a Vegas pool party. It's like, one is they're very different experiences. And so I know that like, uh, I got in trouble with this with Weiger when I was on dough boys. I feel like that's maybe I haven't been on dough boys. Cause I made a mention about like, you can't even really talk about pizza that's coming out of the oven because when you have real pizza that we know what it tastes like everything is we got to judge it in a different degree but uh but i feel like this is a part of the thing too it's like you can say like i could say to you i would write i prefer to ride transformers after a night of halloween horror nights over rise because it's like it captures

a moment, a mood and excitement, you know, and rise. And it may not be like a ride that I want to do like three times in a day. Splash Mountain, I may want to do like three times like that, you know, but that's a different thing. All I would say to that is like, is that as a kid playing Star Wars, a big part of it was X-Wing TIE fighter. You're in the thing and like something would get, you know, you pretend stormtroopers were shooting and you get blown away. Like, I feel like it would go a long way if they had just had a part where you get shot by a big laser cannon and the vehicle like spins out, hits into the wall or something, and then keeps going. There's like some sort of just base level kid desires that I don't feel are necessarily fulfilled on Rise of the Resistance. Like you

get, you're getting shot at by lasers. You're never feeling the impact of it. You're never having that moment of when you're a kid and you're doing it, which you get on like Star Tours and even on the Millennium Falcon. You got the magic of how did I walk from the outside and now I'm inside the thing. That's great too. How did I turn around? I see all the, I'm coming out of the same door. You got the, I'm flying up. You're're in you're going back out into space. You're coming out like there's all that whole thing is magic tricks. Yeah, for sure. I'm just saying, again, ultimate experience. I think if I'm analyzing what I'm looking for, it's something like that, that you're getting more on Transformers where you're getting that kid, the thing when you're smashing your action figures together. And I feel like, yeah, if it's like that's the thing, i think that it felt like it was a little bit missing for me on the front i first ride or when i still ride let's let you finish let's let's finish out the list here

let's let's do the okay real quick yeah so uh fist fighting robots i talked about that uh star scream turns into a jet it's awesome oh the office building when you swing it in the office building love it the first time i ever swung into the office building i thought that ruled let me say that was something i learned about this you know who thought of this you know his idea this oh i don't steven spielberg that was his contribution and it's pretty great it's pretty it's awesome the first time i did it every time i go in still i know the trick obviously that's not really doing that but it still is so effective and such a fun difference from spider-man that takes spider-Man stuff to the next level. And then,

yeah, Evac is a great little underdog character. He says, no more running. And it's so, you really feel for him. I'm not sure why he's so, I guess I know why he's so strained when he's speaking,

but because he's under attack. An original theme park character too. Great. And now we love that. Marks for that. And then again, this big punch, it's so satisfying

in the way that you play with toys. You punch them all spark into Megatron. It's amazing. It's not awesome. It's amazing. And then you fall,

Bumblebee catches you, which is a great effect. But yes, we've seen that in Star Wars, Spider-Man. So, and then yeah,

Optimus tells you that your bravery saved the planet. You cry, you see Megatron's corpse and you cry again. Either, however you land on this issue, you have to applaud Mike for putting this together. I agree.

But that said, Paul, I think you need to like, do you have any sort of final judgments to make now that this has been laid out? When I first heard the opinion that Mike had, I thought it was outlandish. I thought it was completely baseless. In hearing his very skewed judgment of both rides, and I think he should open himself to a more proper presentation. How come you didn't say that thing to him about,

I didn't say, you should, you should. Oh, by the way, I did say that thing to him about, I didn't say. Oh, by the way, I did say it quietly to the mic. Say it loud and annoying like you say it to me. I didn't say it was, I didn't say necessarily it was better. You're still calm. Say it, spike your voice at Paul, go. Oh, I didn't say I said Transformers was better. There. Okay.

What did you say? What are we arguing then? What did you say? I'm saying we're just exploring the idea that it is. Oh, okay. Okay. Just asking questions. To quote tucker i mean mike carlson to quote the terminator 2 ride and so the battle continues yeah i so what i would say is this in hearing the overview i think it really crystallized for me in the last few minutes, which is what you are looking for in the ride, which is, so I think if we're looking for a technological ride build idea,

I'm going to say there's no equal to rise. But if we're looking for a thrill ride, a true thrill ride, I agree. I like getting put into that giant pencil sharpener. I like shoving that all spark into that head. I think there are some really fun visceral moments there. And I go back to my original theory, which is I love Fast and Furious, but I also love Jackie Brown. They're very different movies. They both give me certain things that I'm looking for. I think for Mike, what you're saying is the kid in you is more activated from Transformers. And then it ends with

this emotional wallop and not saying that you like Transformers, just saying that like the idea of like a kid playing with giant robots. And that's at the end of the day, like I i feel that same way like i walk off that ride i go this is the best transformers thing why can't they make the movies like that there's an emotional wallop there's a thrill there's an adventure to it undisputed unequivocal that is true and i think rise is different i think rise is uh incomparable to any other ride, but I don't think it packs the thrill ride punch, but I don't think that that's wrong. I think it is an awe-inspiring. I'm not awe-inspired by Transformers. I had fun on Transformers. I want to ride it again. It's Splash Mountain. Star Wars, I'll talk about and say that's the best ride I've ever been on.

And maybe I'm not adding that much clarity to it, but I but I think there are rooms. There is room to have that opinion. But I think it needs to be couched in a very specific way to what he's saying. Does that make sense? I does make sense. I think that's I think you're right. Yeah. Mike, what's your opinion after all that? What's your opinion on this issue hmm let's see here so after all of this is said and done brett uh could you put up um the next slide up but then quickly put the next slide up oh boy oh could you like brett could you actually go to the next Reverse it, go to the one before And now to the At last one Okay, by the way that's Finn In the distance there What's happened?

Are you saying that Mike in a way you agree With me that both rides win? I think That both rides Win if you take the IP out of Star Wars. I think that was a good – I think that was a very good argument for Star Wars because I'm connected to Star Wars. I have a lot of emotions. And if I'm looking for a very specific thing, I'm either looking for character moments, emotional moments on Star Wars.

I'm looking for certain things. Yes, you're right. I'm putting too much of myself in it and not looking at it just as a big scope ride. Would you say the real winners were the friends we made along the way? Brett, could you quickly type up a slide that says both rides are equally good? Now, I want to say one thing. My children are downstairs uh i can hear i will say this i brought my youngest uh who is five years old at that point five turning six

i'm on this ride rise of the resistance and it broke down of course. And he was very scared, frightened out of his mind at every given point. Now, this is a kid who has ridden Soaring. He has ridden Pirates. He has ridden Haunted Mansion. Frightened out of his mind, when the ride breaks down, he turns to me, bursts out in tears and says, Kylo Ren is gonna kill us. And to me, you may not be getting some of that thrill, but I believe the ride is giving you a much darker,

a darker thing because he thought Kylo Ren had effectively, like the ride hadn't broken down. Kylo Ren had won. He had stopped our car and now he was here to kill us. So much so that when the ride attendants took car and now he was here to kill us so much so that when the ride attendants took us out he was not trusting them at all uh thinking they were a part of the the show uh which i totally understand in many respects uh so i do think on a certain level and we're talking about ip and all that sort of stuff uh i think it is giving people a thrill my kid that youngest had never even seen Star Wars.

So he's coming into it the same way I'm coming into Transformers. So there's that. There is a thrill. There is definitely a thrill. A thrill of death. Which is a thrill. And then he turned to you and went, Papa, what does this mismanagement of the House of Gucci mean for the company?

For high fashion, only Tom Ford can save them. You know, I think we're talking emotional wallops. I think this episode has been full of them. I think this has been a fascinating conversation like giant robots all grappling for the all spark. And Paul, thank you for joining us and having it with us. I think it's settled other than we'll probably

get into this debate about seven more times. But for now, Paul Scheer, you survived Podcast The Ride. Thank you so much for giving us all this time. I appreciate it. Can I say one more thing just as we cap it off? And I know I'm to blame my own leave. You can stay at The Win or you can stay at the Hard Rock Casino, right? It's all a matter of what you want. They might be – now, I might be dated because I don't know those two. If any of that is good. What I remember Vegas to be.

Hard Rock is coming back, taking over the Mirage and the Virgin Hotels is running their old property. Okay. So all I'll say is this. I think that we're talking about two icons, two of the best people to do it, both of these rides in many respects. And to simply make them fight each other for supremacy, it may not be the best thing. We may have to live on the Mount theme park more or whatever that was. And just appreciate that all these presidents have done something good. So so what you're saying is that the problem really is pitting them against each other and comparison and comparing them. An idea that was thought up by Mike Carlson and therefore Mike is wrong.

Put up my side, Brett. Mike is wrong. Oh, you don't have it. OK, sorry. Well, you can put it in. It is wrong. Put it in. It is wrong. Put up my side, Brett. Mike is wrong. Oh, you don't have it. Okay, sorry. We can put it in post. Mike is wrong. Actually, Brett, I do have something to bring up. Can you pull up the thing that just says sign?

Because we're not exiting through the gift shop today. We're doing it Transformers the Ride style because at the end you see a scary stencil that says ROP. And ROP is retail opportunity. Allspark Vault level four, section two. So Spark Vault Level 4, Section 2. So, Paul Scheer, let's exit through the ROP. Is there anything you would like to plug?

No, just listen to how this gets made and unspooled. We have some fun episodes coming up with some very big guest stars. So, it'll be a blast. Paul, a thrill to have you. Thank you so much. Pleasure. So, I do want to say my one favorite discovery about this ride real quick. We're still going.

All right. It's very quick. I alluded to it before we started recording. You've been so upset about the general though. The actor, Glenn Morshauer, who plays General Morshauer, very weird they used his real last name. He's the secret service agent in the TV show 24. He's very good in this ride.

How little I know of these movies, I thought he was an original ride character. He's in most of the movies. There is a moment where the Transformer wheelie interrupts and maybe some of the finest theme park delivery, delivery of a line that's very silly but said very seriously. He says to him, this better be critical wheelie and i'm just was delighted by that that kind of made my day when i saw that scene well you've heard it you've heard it here does anyone have june's number let's

call june and get paul back on you should hear it yeah tell those kids to hold their fucking horses for a minute and let's get that make sure he hears the wheelie it helps that wheelie is Tom Kenny doing like a Brooklyn guy accent that's what he should have said to his kids whatever he had to leave I hope this is critical

wheelie well I hope this episode was critical for the listeners wheelie i wheelies our little wheelie and for all our little wheelies out there in the audience you can find us on the socials at podcast the ride where i think we have to do the polls transformers or spider-man and transformers or rise of the resistance we do yeah i'm so curious i'm very curious uh i won't try to lead it any further because it's possible that people will try to vote the other way to fuck me hey i don't i'm not telling them what to do they should

listen to this episode before i mean obviously they well maybe they will or maybe they won't but they they should listen we should okay so what we should do is do a poll first before we post the episode and a poll after and see who's been swayed uh i to be honest not me but maybe some of the audience maybe we don't know people who weren't being specifically scolded and finger wagged at in the room during it. We don't know. We'll see. The battle continues. The battle continues.

The battle continues. Merch is available in our ROP on TeePublic. And for three bonus episodes every month, check out Podcast the Ride, The Second Gate, or our new tier, Club 3, where we end every episode with a moment of intimacy, a la Optimus Prime, the most heart-wrenching moment in all of theme park fiction. You'll find all of that at patreon.com slash podcast the ride. Mike, I feel like you got to end it. This has been your time to shine.

What do you want the listener to leave with? I want them to leave with an open heart and an open mind. And I want them to assess things they thought they knew. And I want them to re-examine every aspect of their life when it comes to ranking IP-based rides. I want to leave

and get open-heart surgery rather than discuss any of this again. Okay, fair enough. Okay, we're agreed. Okay, bye. Bye. Forever Dog. This has been

a Forever Dog production. Executive produced by Mike Carlson, Jason Sheridan, Scott Gairdner, Brett Boehm, Joe Cilio, and Alex Ramsey. For more original podcasts, please visit foreverdogpodcasts.com and subscribe

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