Produced By - 17-Year-Old Unicorn Hunter: Interviews with Leading Founders | #67: Elim Kalilov

Episode Date: August 26, 2024

Elim Kalilov is a dynamic 17-year-old entrepreneur, writer, and podcast co-host with a passion for AI, software, biohacking, and martial arts. Born in Kyrgyzstan and raised in Seoul, South Korea, Elim's journey into entrepreneurship began at a young age. He has explored various ventures, demonstrating a relentless curiosity and drive. As the co-host of Unicorn Talks, Elim interviews startup founders and shares insights from his own entrepreneurial experiences alongside his co-founder. Among his ventures, he founded EventBird, a platform connecting people with relevant business events, and AI for Founders, helping businesses harness the power of artificial intelligence. Tune in to this episode to be inspired by Elim’s ambitious mindset, learn about his experiences growing up as a foreigner in South Korea, and get a behind-the-scenes look at his podcast. Connect with Elim: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elim-kalilov-250575243/ https://x.com/ElimKalilov Unicorn Talks https://www.youtube.com/@unicorn_talks_show Connect with Tommen: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/  X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky  Podcast: Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by  Website: https://produced-by-podcast.com/  Support: https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast  Produced (email newsletter): ⁠https://produced.beehiiv.com/⁠  More: Trailblazed (marketing agency): https://trailblazed.digital/  My SkillShare Course: https://skl.sh/3Rh7ZtY  Produced (LinkedIn newsletter): ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠  Produced By with Tommen is your weekly dose of inspiration where ambition meets creativity. Join us as we dive into the journeys of content creators, entrepreneurs, and other remarkable individuals who break barriers and redefine success. Each episode shares unique stories, challenges, and triumphs. From heartfelt struggles to incredible successes, these conversations will motivate you to push beyond your limits and chase your own dreams. Whether you're on a creative path or just love great stories, tune in and become part of a community that constantly strives to push the boundaries. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

They just tell interesting things that they're not necessarily hiding, but I just didn't ask, you know, but they're willing to share. And I guess a recurring theme is that people have made, it's very hard, but there's a lot of suffering, a lot of pain in their journeys. But what they do is they keep persevering and they keep remaining hopeful and they keep trying to, you know, improve. And another thing is these people are no really different than you. I think this is like I shaked hands with a billionaire once. He was just a normal guy. I mean, I asked him how he did all this. And he just said, I just worked.

He just didn't. There's another guy I met and he owned this massive building. And there was this massive venue. And he was just there. So I just came up and talked to him. And that venue is like $20,000 per day rent. Right? And I was asking my idea.

He just said, you just worked hard. Like, I think everyone, like, it's just like, you do stuff and you keep pushing your outside. It's just one step in front of the other. And that's like the biggest themes. One step another. There's a lot of difficulties. But you have to just keep going through it.

Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button. Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you. Hello, Elam. Thank you for joining us today. And welcome to the show. Thank you, Thomas. It's my biggest pleasure to be on the show.

So, Elim, can you please introduce yourself? Yeah, I'm currently building Eventbird. I host a podcast called Recently Changed to Unicorn Talks, where we interview founders who have been a part of or have built or invested in Unicorn companies and is two co-hosts both of us trying to build unicorn companies and documenting our journey and giving questions related to the early stages of entrepreneurship. And I'm currently 17 and I reside in South Korea. Originally I'm from Kyrgyzstan, a country in Central Asia.

And I think that's a pretty good summary of what I do. That sounds cool. I will be excited to find out more about your podcast and the startup. But firstly, can we start with your background? I think I've never met actually anyone from Kyrgyzstan, although you said that you moved from there in a young age, but can we tell us more about living there or growing up there? Yeah, Kyrgyzstan. I came to Korea when I was one, but I went there every summer break. And Kyrgyzstan is south of Kazakhstan, and it's like east of China.

So it's in between, think of like, in between China and Russia and like Iran. That area is where I reside. It's, the culture is very unique. I think everyone who's listening should go visit there or Kazakhstan, which is basically our brother. And yeah, I guess the background there is. Every, I have a lot of cousins back home and I think something interesting. It's not interesting. It's a little sad, but down south is where I'm from. And there was a conflict there with Tajikistan, which is a neighboring country. They actually bombed like a part of my hometown. Luckily everyone I know is safe, not a lot of casualties. But that I think is an interesting note because I kind of shaped a lot. And going there is very different. Like, South Korea, Seoul is one of the most expensive cities to live in. It's a very rich place. A lot of tech companies there. And if you go back to Abishkek, there is no skyscrapers, the capital city of our country. And I'm from a hometown, a small town. And in there, it's like, when you go to the bathroom, there is no bathroom inside your house. You have to go outside of the house, walk out and then walk for like through all

the cows and chickens and then through some of the weeds. And then, There's this toilet, and then it's not really a toilet. There's like a hole on the ground. And then you put wooden planks on top, and then there's like a little hut around it. And I think I'd especially be scared when I was like young, because when it was like 3 a.m. I take a piss.

I walked outside and it was pitch dark. I had to turn on the lights, bugs flying in. I went inside the hut, and sometimes I would see a lizard, which would be cool. And the worst would be when there's a bee or like a big spider, right? but they're always, it's like a different kind of environment. So I guess that's a pretty good. But it's also a very beautiful country.

I ride horses there, see the mountains. It's like a really nice place in that way. Basically sounds like a total opposite of so rich advanced economy compared to so forth like this. Yeah, I don't think it's actually completely opposite. South Korea looks very nice, but one of the issues is like literally like I just went to cafe today and I saw these grandmas, really old people, picking up like tons of like paper trashes

you know from from the streets and it's like they're really and right next to me Seoul Station there's a lot of homeless people there's these little like rooms

like kind of like bird cage kind of like cages in like Hong Kong what you call like really small people really small and people barely make any money so that's an issue right now so it's not totally different for most people and what actually was the reason

for moving specifically to South Korea or so? My parents, they came to here because there's better opportunities. And our parents luckily had the chance to move with Korea stuff. And yeah, so I came here when I was one. And that was primarily the reason because there were, from Kyrgyzstan or Central Asia, it's really hard to go to like Europe and stuff. It's usually the easiest to get into like China or Japan or Korea.

and we just chose Korea. And do you speak the language from the Kurdistan? Oh, wow. So you speak three languages or even more? Yes, three. I was supposed to know Russian because after the Russian colonization of our country and Soviet Union, everyone speaks Russian. Like, my cousins can't speak Kyrgyz.

Most of them can't. How similar is it with Kyrgyz? It's not at all. Oh, really? It's like totally different. Our language is more similar to Turkish, although it's still hard to understand, but it's called the Turkic language is completely separate from Russian language, but it's kind of merged, so I know some Russian because of, you know, Soviet Union.

Yeah. Also, you need to learn Russian if you want to, unless you're going outside into the China or into the West, if you want to do business in Kyrgyzstan, you need to know very fluent Russian. Yeah. So what was it like growing up in South Korea? It was very interesting because like I went to Korean school and I also went to private schools, English private schools. So I didn't really have the full Korean experience. But I just remember things changing a lot.

And most of my childhood I remember I lived in Etowon, which is like the foreigner district of South Korea. It's right next to the U.S. military base. So I was kind of used to being with foreigners. And South Korea is very comfortable. Sorry to interrupt, but near to foreigners, does it mean Americans or people from anywhere? A lot of Americans, I guess. There were a lot of Indians. There's a lot of people from Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Germany.

So a bunch of different, but mostly Americans as well, I'd say. I guess, like just adding on South Korea, it's very comfortable. Like, I'm not used to, like, the dangers of other countries. like I right now in the coffee shop I put my phone I put my computer out I could sometimes I sometimes put my wallet out which I stopped doing but I used to and I would just go to the bathroom and other countries I heard you're you get a stolen and South Korea that's never used it yeah in South Korea it's never happened to anyone I know so just feel super comfortable and I mean because of the safety my parents allowed me to go to conferences when I was like 11 go to like electronic markets go to

like a lot of different places when I was very young and do it on my own and like my parents let me come home at 1am once because I went to this one business VIP something I went there and they let me come at 1am which I don't know why I would not let my kids do that but they let me because of the safety of Korea so I guess that's like what it enables that was like I guess the most unique thing about it and can ask you because you mentioned that you lived close to the borders of North Korea if I'm not mistaken. Although I don't want to discuss the

politics and the relationship between the countries, did it's did you feel, you know, maybe a bit unsafe because of the relationship between the countries or did it influence you in any way? Yeah, definitely, definitely. I remember actually in this room, once there was this alarm going on

and there was this loud alarm and on my phone it was saying basically, it didn't say start evacuating, its phrasing was really weird but it was saying North Korea sent something and basically you have to prepare to evacuate, not to evacuate. So I was kind of confused. My dad was like, oh, we should. We don't need to.

My dad, but I was like with my sister, we were both like yelling. We're like, this actually could be something. We need to go. So my dad drove a car and we tried to go to a bunker. Turns out North Korea sent satellite, it didn't end up going at burn. But that gave me like a scar. So whenever I hear sounds, like that sound like the alarm, I get really like anxious and I really need to know what's happening. until it happens, I can't really stop.

And, you know, we live very close to the border to basically the most authoritarian regime, I think right now at the moment. So it's been like crazy the fact, like, how developed these countries and just up north it's the worst regime in the world. It's always a part of your mind, you know. It's always, it exists, but most people kind of like dissolve it, like kick it out of their mind. But I don't know. I don't know what, I think maybe, I don't think they'll shoot.

But if they shoot, I know I have no chance. It's like the bunkers are too far away and the atomic bombs are so powerful and Seoul is such a condensed. It's big but it's also quite condensed. And we're, you know, in Seoul, I live near the city hall. Like most people live near the city hall or Gangnam. And the city hall, there is the president house. You moved a little south, but like it's really close to basically where everyone lives. So that place is definitely going to get targeted.

So I'll get erased sadly. If it happens. Yeah. Yeah, I was just curious. For example, when you said that you received a notification, on your phone. How frequently does that happen? You get it once a day, not about atomic bomb. It's not like a loud one. There's a louder one that always happens, but there's like a more

quieter one, which is like if someone goes missing or like if there's an earthquake, but usually the earthquakes are never in Seoul. It's like down south and they're like very slow magnitude. So it's usually like not really important things for you. Is that something that every citizen has in their phone or you need to download something? I think if you have, no, it just automatically sends a message, but like alarm message so you have you receive it even even if it's like do not disturb i think you need Wi-Fi or something on i'm not sure actually you might not but yeah that's interesting do you or can you notice that the situation is maybe getting more tense because of what's been happening recently

with north korea because i remember there were some tensions because they sent some how do i say there were balloons sent south from north korea because i think south korea also sent balloons with like DVDs of like something. I'm not exactly sure about the specifics. All I know is the conflict is getting a little stronger. There's some big protests happening. I'm not massive, but I'm not really, I'm not really clear with the politics. But it's not something that would, you know, influence your life.

I'd be probably, well, I don't want to live Korea long term. I want to move my family to somewhere a little safer and more. I mean, Korea's safe, but it's just, it's just there's always. the threat of Kim Jong-un or I'm not really worried that much I mean it doesn't seem like I've grown up with him always existing he doesn't seem like he's actually going to shoot but I'm just worried about you know their her his sister or his his daughter because they must not have grown up in normal like like they might someone else who replaces him what is it going to be like yeah if they're crazy more crazier than him then I'm a little worried but I don't know I try to avoid thinking about it yeah of I understand. It's not pleasant. So then coming back to you growing up, you said, I was actually about to ask because of your English, it sounds like a native. So you said that you studied in a private English school? Yes, yeah, most of my life.

And is that something that is more frequent for students in Seoul or where you, why were we actually studying in English from? There's a lot of foreign international schools. It's meant for A lot of ambassadors kids go there. A lot of foreigners go there. And it's a mandatory thing where either you're Korean and you lived in like America or somewhere foreign for more than four years. But it's like it's like a designated like school that's called a foreign school. And Korean school, you don't really, you learn English, but you're not really fluent in it.

But it's okay for normal conversations. Like not really okay, but it does. It teaches you a little bit. Yes. My parents just said because English is just really powerful. And I would be curious, in a regular Korean school, do you learn besides English, any other foreign languages? Yes, besides English, I think maybe Chinese or Chinese if you wanted, perhaps. But I only went there for a year and I don't remember really paying attention.

Okay. And so then with your education, what is it that you focused on, you know, your specialization? if you studied business or something like that I'm in high school Oh is your high school Yeah so I guess I'm 17 I'm next year I'm going to college

Probably I'm going to fight For computer science or like Business probably But in high school You also have specialization or not Ours is more American style So you kind of can choose what you want So I choose like physics or like mathematical courses

And like philosophy I like those kind of things But then as you may mentioned, what is it that you are going to focus later on, business? I'm not really, I don't really want to go to college, but if I had to, yeah, business, I preferably computer science, but it's just really competitive. And I'm not like a coder, coder. I can code, but it's not like my deepest interest. I like building groups of people. I like working with people. I like communicating. I like, I like psychology, but

psychology doesn't translate as much. I want to do that as a minor, probably. And if you continued studying, would it be still in Seoul or would you go somewhere abroad? Probably San Francisco, but I heard it's really good for tech, but I also heard the policies and like everything is really bad and really good at the same spot. So maybe like Singapore as well, I've been thinking. It's also exciting places, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Just want to go to like hubs of like a lot of economical activity. and with like good regulations

and what then are your plans for the future if you go studying there are you planning to start the business or something like that yeah so my goal is I want to take a gap here and from here till the end of the gap here really just try to build so I have event per the unicorn

and just try to scale it or sell it or build something where I can at least get to like 20K per month month or something like that, then I feel pretty comfortable not going to college. And I'm just not going to go to college and keep building and probably scale just bigger and bigger and live as a nomad just traveling every six months to different countries. It's kind of like Pavl Dorov.

So it's exciting. So do you want to introduce Evan Berth a bit more? It's a recent thing. I guess to kind of go back, like, I'm not like a business like Savant, but I, the I built like before I was working on, I think the first thing I was doing was 3D printing. I tried to sell street printing parts of like 11. It was not really a business thing. I just like making stuff.

From 11. But then I didn't really do business for like four years. But then at 15, I tried doing web agency and I got like a couple clients. It was really fun when I got my first money. It was really fun. It was like 300 bucks, really small. I was super happy because I was 15 and it was raining and I got it. And afterwards, I started starting.

to learn coding because I didn't like, because there's so many startup ideas I wanted, but I always had to rely on someone else to build it. And I didn't like, I really don't like someone else telling me what to do. Like, it's just really annoying.

So I want to learn how to actually build it and have more understanding. So I built like a little AI Chrome extension. It made a little bit of money. We had like a couple hundred users, or I forgot the exact number. But then I worked on some other things. Those things really didn't work.

And I've been really focusing on the podcast the last three months. but I think I've, it's at a spot where I can kind of do it on the side now because I wanted to use the networking and meet cool people. That's my primarily goal. And later on, I want to scale it to something bigger where it could maybe be a full-time thing like Chris Williamson, Modern Wisdom. Right now it's talking with like investors.

So then, and investors and really cool founders because they, their, their advice means so much. And now I'm starting to build something again with all the advice I learned from them and all the network I've built over like the last year. and really focus in the last four months. I've gotten, like, crazy people as mentors and really cool people who I'm trying to file their advice and I'm trying to implement it to my current thing, which is Eventbird. I am still in the midst because I have two, I have like three ideas I really like, but they all have a little issue.

Funding. But Eventbird. Huh? Is it funding money as an issue? You said. No, not funding. There's some people I could ask for funding. I'm not really sure if I, I wanted to be mostly bootstrap.

I want to first build something and just at least find some PMF. But right now, so Event Bird, what I wanted to be is in South Korea specifically, I became a part of the startup ecosystem. Like I really know all the events here. But every single person I meet, I can connect. They usually don't know like half of the other startup community. So I help connect. I help connect a lot of people.

So with, I was like, oh, this is an issue. Like people can't find events and it's hard to stay notified. And I use Meetup. And Meetup is not really commonly used. It's used for a couple things, but it's not really used for business reasons. There's event bright. There's only one business event on there. And I found it pretty hard to stay in track of all the things that are happening.

So I was like, oh, I want to build like some kind of, right now, it's just a very simple database of just all the events recently. And that's it. I want to build more things on top of that. And I don't like Eventbrider Meetup. Meetup recently got acquired from someone I heard by a large company. and they've been charging, they've been increasing the prices and the users, some users I talk to, which is a small amount, but they said it's been kind of getting shittier in that there's a lot of like, it's a mixture and it's not really specific. And the meetups aren't as good quality. So I'm like, okay, that's a problem. Event bright, not a lot of people use it in Korea. So I'm like, oh, maybe that's something I can fix. The other idea was something called AI for founders. I organized like three small events. And I'm hoping to organize something really big soon with another person about. But what it is is I just want to build some platform or something where it helps founders utilize AI. That was first just through events where we had usually 20 to 30 people.

I usually brought like one expert in some field. And he would kind of give a lecture on something. And then everyone would kind of network, but with the primarily focus of how are you implementing AI into your business? What has worked? What has not worked? And I learned a lot of interesting things about how AI is implemented. So that's kind of, I guess that's a gist of like all the business things I'm interested in.

Yeah, and with the event birth, is it focused on businesses or entrepreneurs or is it for events on all? I know. So, so right now, it's for business events only. I want to really be specific because all the all the kind of advice and the, I asked my mentor, he has like a really big startup. And basically it's like, oh, find a really specific problem. Build a very simple MVP, iterate very quickly. So it's very specific. it's business events in Seoul, then I'm going to maybe grow into business events in Asia

Pacific or maybe only Singapore, Tokyo and Seoul because those are the networks I have and Sydney. Well, that sounds awesome because, you know, such a idea like you've got that helps you to connect with people and you become kind of a hub that knows everyone who connects people, which sounds amazing for the future. Yeah, I really enjoy the community aspect of things like I'm not exactly sure what my unique skill set is but one thing i know is i just at least like connecting people and meeting your people that's like business and stuff is nice but i want to use that network and just you know

have have coffee shests conversations like this is part of why i live so yeah and it's so also one of the hubs when it comes to businesses and maybe start-ups in yes i think it was ranked like they're i think rank number seven or eight in this one study for startups it's really vague though i i don't agree with them but i guess we're very good in that there is some issues I heard with the people I talk to about the government. But there's a lot of startups happening and there's a lot of unicorn startups coming out of South Korea at the moment. And what is it actually that makes you excited when it comes to entrepreneurship?

Because as you said, you started in young age, even when you were 11. It's maybe because of your background or some influences? Yeah. The 11 one was not really entrepreneurship. I was just like, I just read a book and it said like, Elon Musk made money when he was young And I'm like, okay, I need to make a little bit of money So what was it?

Was it actually about Elon? Yeah, it was a biography. I read him and I read some other people. I watched a lot of like YouTube biographies of like Nicola Tesla And I like to just I don't know. I just like to do a lot of random things. But I just figured like, okay, if I make a little bit of money And I was going to be good for my lore like when I get older like,

Oh, okay, he did this. So I'm glad I did. I made like 50 bucks, but I lost 400 bucks. I was down actually. but price has experience i'm sure yeah it was it was i mean i basically just told it to all my friends so what what is it that fuels you now before it was maybe influence of book or something else and now what is it that makes you passionate or to you know to continue i guess i like the the most i guess i like the freedom aspect and i also like the influence i can have with it i don't think

i'm like i'm like doing it for fully just like helping people i think a part of it is I don't think I'm a perfect person with perfect intentions. One of it is just Kyrgyzstan, like I see a lot of poverty. You know, further off family members, they don't live. They're not in poverty, but they don't live in the best financial status. Financial situation. Like, the bombing one, my, some, my grandfather's brother's something, his house got bombed. You know, it chipped slightly and it didn't explode.

So I was very happy. Nothing really bad happened. But I remember recording a video of it. And I think that's a part of what drives me, you know, like, it's just insane the amount of the difference in the difference in the world, you know, and the opportunities you have, like some farther of family members. They're, they're, what they see the world as is just so much more different than how I see it. Like being next to like the founders who are worth like $250 million and interviewing these investors, like, it's really fascinating because like it is doable. And I can talk with these people and I can learn from them and I can literally have a coffee with them. they're willing to give me that time.

They're willing to give me money for something. You know, and I think that kind of changed the whole worldview. And because I have good education, I have some, my parents are willing to help me out. And it's true that I made some money and, you know, those things have allowed me.

So the world is just so much more open. And I think the world is so much more possible. But the people back home, a lot of them don't see it. They live very, their worldview is very, very small. And I don't. And it's like either be a farmer,

or go to college and, you know, just like, I just, I think I want to open the worldview of what we're possible, not to just Kyrgyzstan, but just like most, like, I think Nepal is good because her government is willing and they're pretty open, but a bit, a lot of educational institutions. I think that's one thing I'm really passionate about. The other thing is the freedom aspect of it. I really, because, you know, our family is doing pretty all right. I love us to be free because I don't like having points in our lives where it's very, like, if this one or two things happen, it'll all crumble.

I want a little bit more of like a solid foundation to have on. And I think some amount of wealth invested into things. I think that can give me that. And I love traveling. Like I haven't really traveled outside of South Korea and Kyrgyzstan much. But in South Korea, I would like one thing I'd love to do. And I did a lot with my friends is we would just get a bus and we just go somewhere random, far from Seoul.

And then we just go to coffee shops, work, eat nice food, surf. I just want to do that, like work, build, move. And I also think it gives me a mission. Like, I want to build something big. I don't know, I just want to build it. It's fun in and of itself to a certain extent. So I guess those are like three important reasons. Yeah, I like it.

And I feel like that's something I can relate to. For example, when you said in the beginning that you come from or that you, when you look at the situation in Kyrgyzstan compared to where we are now, that people have kind of a narrow view and you can see people living in different conditions. I live in London and I come from a different country as well, from a little village, and I can also see the difference that, like, for example, people that I meet now, compared to people back at home and even seeing the possibilities here and when it comes to podcast and speaking with ambitious and just different people, for example, like with you now, I would

never expect to connect with someone like that and speak. So I just wanted to mention that that is something I can relate to. I think a lot of people can relate if they really, yeah, I think it's a lot of people. I think we kind of only see like the very, like, privileged people. And I think we forget that most of the people, like, a fascinating thing is, I think you're top one person if you make like $30,000 a year, right, 1%. And in like Western countries, that's considered like, oh, especially in like some place. Like in Korea, that's like average wage, you know.

Are you looking to elevate your online presents? Check out Trailblazed, our digital marketing agency. Whether it's standing out on social media, crafting a stunning new website or developing impact visuals, Trailblaest has got your back. Visit Trailbased.digital and reach your online potentials a day. Yes. And before you or we mentioned Chris Williamson, and are there any other people that you follow and are inspiration for you? Yes. I can give you like a five-hour list because I listened to so much podcast growing up.

and so many videos. I had so many heroes. Give us some tips. I guess this is an interesting thing. You know Mark Manson? Yeah, of course. I met Mark Manson. He came to South Korea and he had a meetup.

And I went there and I literally had a conversation with him. I told him that I had this, you know, book. I can actually, I guess I can quickly get the signed copy if it's okay. Yeah, yeah, go for it. Is it subtle art or the other role? Okay. Yeah, yeah, I will. book. But it's not the one. I read the, what was it? The first? The orange one. The second one.

Yeah, but anyhow, I had this book and I, the other book, I think I gave it away to someone, but it's Oh, poor L.M. That's so cool. I'm jealous. I met him. Yeah. It's crazy when you meet your heroes, because he was the first self-improvement book I ever read in my life. It was what changed a lot. and I feel like he's such a cool, authentic, and I was a nice guy. Because I listen to his podcast, I watch him on YouTube as well. It's just so funny. And of course, I don't know him personally, but I've got an impression that he's just authentic. And if I met him on a street or somewhere, it would be the same nice, cool guy.

Although, you know, if you consider your success that he had with the book or even, I know he made a documentary. Just really cool. I think he made like $20 million. from one of his book launches. He's pretty wealthy. And meeting him, he is actually similar to what I expected him. I haven't read the, like, it was weird because I was so excited. So I kind of regret.

Like, I wish I asked him more questions. I wish I told him like this, this, this. So it was like at a chicken place. So, you know, we ate the chicken. It was really good. And, you know, he was going around everyone. So it was very small, like time you could have with him. So I just told him, hey, I had your book.

This one. There's the orange one. And I remember I took it to school and in school I knew that the teachers would get angry if I have the F word on here. So I basically took out the first cover of it so I could still read it in school. So I told him that story and he was pretty amazed. And I hugged him and I said, I'm really thankful. He was a lot taller than I thought. He looked smaller and he's actually pretty big.

And he's pretty built. But afterwards they went to like, what was it somewhere else and it was getting pretty late. So I was out, I got to go. But while until like that, I think they were going to like a couple of. club afterwards and I couldn't legally go. So while in that path, I was just walking with him for literally 20 minutes. I just talked with him. And it turns out we were on like a similar, like I was asking what he listens to what his plans are. And you know, it was very interesting. And yeah, he seemed like what he sells himself as. So that was pretty cool. Um, this impression sounds like awesome experience.

Yeah. It is. It's crazy. I met some other heroes of mine and it's like, I don't really, my podcast heroes per se. I met another hero. But yeah, but the podcast of going back to How to Take Over the World. I love it. World Class. Oh, yes. Ben Wilson.

Yes, sir. He retweeted one of my posts. I was so happy because I basically tagged him because Speechify had, how takeover was pretty good. Founders podcast, I love it. Lex Friedman. With David Senra? Yes, David Senra. World

Class podcast. He's really good. I want to go to his founder's retreat. one day. I like acquired as well. I don't listen to too much, but I listen to some of it. Lexington is a classic. Isn't it? Yeah, and it's a little too in depth to what I am looking for. I don't really know. But later on, I really want to build a company at that scale. I want my podcasts to be like that, very informative, but also really, and they have a really nice, relaxing tone and pace, which I'm trying to do because I end up talking too fast. But Lex Friedman, I love. There's also, I don't listen to Jorgon by you, Sue.

There's, actually, I can just turn on my phone. I can show all the ones I listen to. I have my first million. I love that podcast. There's also All In Podcasts. I sometimes listen to it. I listen to Noah Kagan. I listen to First Things First, Modern Wisdom,

The Game, Diary Vesio, the iced coffee hour sometimes. A bunch of podcasts. There's probably more. Tim Ferriss I sometimes listen to. Mr. Ballin also has a podcast. Danny Miranda. I just listened to a lot.

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, you know, great tips. I know most of them. I like it as well, so I'm glad that I found someone that has a similar interest. And when it comes to books, do you read books? And if so, can you share some, maybe that were impactful for you or that you enjoyed? Yeah, I guess the first is the Orange Mark Manson book. That was the first, I think, Selden from I remember reading.

That's really helpful because it's. It basically told me just because I struggled a lot when I was young. So it kind of gave me like I don't need to care about people's opinion that much to a certain extent. So it gave me a little bit more confidence. I think what other books? I like my art of human nature from Robert Green. That was really impactful. This is, it gave me a lens into a little bit more about human psychology.

Atomic habits is also good. It helped me build my first habits. It made me go to the M.M.A.m. more. The fundamental things I somewhat remember. I like history books. I like books with more stories. I don't read too much. Now I just listen to podcasts. I also listen from Speechify. And Speechify, what was it? What else is there? I think I was reading to, I like Elon Musk's biography from Walter Isaacson. That was really good.

Yeah, I enjoyed the tone. So deep work. Deep work was also good. What else? What's the most impactful book. Or if you cannot remember that school, share some amazing tips. Oh yeah, some amazing tips. Okay, another book is How to Win Friends and Influence People. And one thing I remember from that, and I think it's contributed to a lot of the networking I can do. I still am pretty bad at it. Like, I don't implement all of them. But it's very concise things that you think is too simple, but they work. Like, one is always smile. You know, small is always very helpful. Like, I tend to not smile, but I'm very interested. But I try to. And the other thing is you know always mentioned the other person's name like when i'm not i was

about to mention that one as well yeah and i haven't been implementing it i'm sorry thomas um i enjoyed it a lot and i found it very impactful as well and i remember how important it is to remember and mention people's names so i tried to keep that in mind i'm not the best but that's something i was about to mention once you said that so those are amazing points I guess the biggest takeaway from that book, outside of those, is this quote. It's, you will have more, you will win more friends if you're interested, if you're interested in other people, then in one month, then you will have in a year being interesting. And I think that gives a lot, like, I always used to just, like, whenever like, you know, outreach and stuff, like, when I boast a lot about things I've done, it's actually kind of less, it's more pushy. And I found that the greatest mentors and the greatest people I have around me were just people who I was interested in, I asked them questions, and they're very willing to.

And that's why I do the podcast as well. Because I also like asking questions. Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me something I try to keep in mind that to be interesting, can be interested. Because people like it when you are interested in them, when you ask questions, and when they can talk about themselves. So there is a good reminder or mantra to. maybe follow for some people.

Definitely. Yeah. And one thing, I think this is from law of human nature. There's this writer called Anton Chekhov. It was a famous playwriter. And one of the biggest things, this is a quote I try to remind myself a lot, is he grew up in a very difficult time. His father was an alcoholic, abusive.

And then they basically ran away because they had depth. And then they basically left their son to basically almost die. And he basically had to work super hard, work as a tutor, almost. starved to the multiple occasions. Usually his legs almost got frostbitten. It's a really bad neighbor back then. And he managed to survive. And instead of blaming his parents for everything, I might begin the story wrong, but instead of blaming his parents for everything, what he decided to do was understand where they came from. And he understood that his father, why he was so alcoholically abusive and why he was so mean, he started to understand his psyche. He understood that his father

grew up in a generation of serfdom. Serfdom is basically like being a slave. right because of like financial i think and his father had like six seven eight generations were all serfs or something like that and his father had to work so hard to break them out of that and he he originally wanted to be an artist because he had to pay for to surf them he built the grocery stuff he did a lot of boring things he never wanted to do and there was a lot of inner resentment and he understood and he saw his father rather as the person who's doing all the evil as a victim. And also his mother, he saw something similar like that, how she grew up. And what he did was he figured everything out. He became a playwriter as well. And he went back home to Moscow where their

family ran away from him too. Not ran away, but something like that. And why he did it, he chose to take responsibility. And whenever his mother and his sister and his brothers were like, no, I'm not going to do it. He basically showed an example of what to do to such a degree where their family started fixing themselves and he would give books he would give books to his dysfunctional family and they would have discussions at like friday night for six hours about that book he would make them do it he would help like he would manage the entire family and he would be called by his family as like papa anton papa which is a very uh respectful tone and it's usually something a father i think would get and his quote and the idea he found at the end which i tried to live by is

it's just work and love. You work hard and you love. And I tried to embody that and that was a big thing. I learned where self-responsibility can't change a lot of things around. Not to that extent, but yeah, I guess that's one of the things I really remember vividly. Yeah, I haven't heard of it, to be honest. So that is something that I will check out afterwards. Sounds great.

And it would be shame not to discuss your podcast. Can you tell us more about the podcast? I know we discussed it a bit, but a little introduction, because before we dive deeper into it. Sure. It's called Unicorn Talks. We changed it. It was called Ellen Burr before Elm. All those names.

I started one year and a half ago. And I just started it because I was working for a startup community in South Korea. I was helping them. And one of the CEOs, one of the founders, I just was like, all right, I can I interview? I was like, I was just curious. I saw so many podcasts. Why couldn't I do it? So I got them on the podcast.

And thankfully, Google had this startup campus in South Korea where it was basically free to rent out a studio. And the studio was like $300,000. So very high quality gear. It seemed as if the universe was set for it to happen. So I rented it out. You set for free. Yes. Oh, my God.

I don't really use it. I want to keep it a secret. But people don't really use it even if I tell them. I don't know why. But I went there and I did it. And then I started interviewing some people I met, really chill, like once a month for something like that. But then last year, I started doing more online. I started really focusing on podcasting because it was something I resisted myself

because I wanted to focus on first developing that coding skill set. But I found that it's not like something I'm deeply. I do like building things, but I don't like coding in and of itself. It's just a means to an end for me. So I focused on podcasting. And we were at like 45 episodes. And the current idea right now, which might change, is two founders were building. Unicorn Companies, my co-host, he's building a different company.

And basically, us in the attempt of building multi-billion dollar companies, we share weekly journeys of what we've been doing. And then we interview other people who have been a part of, invested in, founded really big companies, preferably to Unicorn Stage. And that's what we're doing at the moment. And your co-founder is that your friend or someone? Yeah, he's my best. He's one of my best friends.

He's basically, I think at 15, he helped me, basically, basically, basically cure social anxiety. He pushed me and he's, you know when like Brian Chesky, he had this podcast and he was talking about how he never believed in himself that he could do anything. He could never even own like a restaurant. Like I never even believed like I could run a business that big. I never really thought I could be doing this at this age. And the friend, Burke, he really believed in me and he said you can do it.

And he made me go talk to strangers in Etow on, which is a foreign district. And he told me made me do it. And he and, you know, he really believed in me. And I think that belief helped. And that's more about him. He's really cool. He got like his startup funded at 13. Now he has a, now he's at a, and then he helped one startup.

He was working for them and they had an exit. So now he says he has an exit. So it's really cool. And now he's building a startup with a team. Yeah, it's really cool. Shout out to him. Yeah, he's really cool. And you interview founders and business people.

So how do you get them to do? speak with you. Yeah, so my co-host has been helping a lot with more of the investors, but when I first got it was just through mutual connections, like people who are who I already knew and I just asked them. And there's a cacao group chat, the foreign community I work for, they, they manage that community chat. So I just reached out to people and I said like, hey, I worked for this and then they all knew that person, so it was a little easier. But even without that, people were just willing. And then I started going up, up, up, and this year I really started

focusing. So I started to reach out more people on LinkedIn is my primarily source. Twitter has also worked. I never really did email. I need to try to do email more, but primarily LinkedIn is what I've been doing. Some people reached out to me and then I did the podcast because they reached out to me for them to

because they knew I was young and they went to also meet me, so they were like, oh, podcast. And they there were founders as well. So I was like, wow. And one of them who reached out was like a really successful founder. So I was like, You're reaching out to me. That's really cool. So that's how I've got most of my guess.

Why did he reach out? Did he want to share his experience? We were in the same foreign group chat. And I think based on my conversations with him and another person who's, who's, you know, conversations with other people. I think people, I think people see something in you, like mentors. That's part of why they do it is they see something about you. And, you know, like my co-founder, my co-host, Burke, I think he,

also says something similar where you know someone reached out to him and they became a mentor when he was super young because they saw something in them and i think that's primarily why they just saw something in me and they want to help out um they want to meet and yeah and when it comes to the structure of your podcast have do you follow like a structure or is it conversation or what is it about yeah it's very um right now i haven't chosen a specific type but the general consensus is first is something like what do you do you know try to understand what you're doing um i used to go more in depth into their childhood but i'm right now trying to turn more into business because um yeah i want it to really help my entrepreneurial thing so i can at least achieve freedom so i've been directing it more towards that

the ending question is usually and in the middle is just like things they've done asking questions you know not really structured and at the end usually i ask a question something about their advice to young people, young people like me, to young founders or to just their own 17-year-old self. That's the structure I usually follow. Yeah, I think that's the structure as of right now. When it comes to the strategy of the podcast such as where to share it, what social media platforms do you use? I use Twitter and LinkedIn to share.

Actually, today I was going to try out YouTube ads. So I'm going to pay like nine bucks, which is super cheap to promote one of my YouTube videos because one of my mentor was telling me to do it. But right now, primarily LinkedIn has been the primary source. What it helps is that when I reach out to someone, I can tag all their companies and tag like their name. And what they would do is they would repost it. But their companies could also repost it.

So they would post an out. So I think like average impression for each of them or like 5,000 impressions on the podcast itself, the views are not as high. But it would allow me to be seen to a lot more people. And LinkedIn, a lot of people use. it are like founders right or people who are working for companies so they're not like and twitter is also helpful depends on who the guests is and where they're more active because if they share it their entire audience can see mine yeah that is smart i should focus on twitter as well

twitter is um less i think depends on what you're trying to go for i try to follow harry stebbings harry stebbings was a more business-focused podcast he started at 17 and i 18 and he's and i just cop I try to follow his strategy of distribution because he says you need to spend almost an equal amount of time in distribution as it's to create the content because like what is you put all that effort into creating something but you don't spend time distributing it it's like he says that's like a wasted effort in some way there's a good point something that i need to think about as well yeah so um with with your podcasting journey what are some uh mistakes that you did before and maybe you wish you knew earlier

mistake. So I guess one mistake was I had this one podcast and I, and like, I just, I, I didn't pronounce his name right for like five times. And I, and I mean, and he's cool. Now he likes all my podcasts. I'm really thankful. I'm going to probably gift him something when I'm successful as like a sorry. And like things were unprepared. I wasn't really clear about what we're trying to do if it's a video. And I still make the mistake sometimes of not being very clear with like, what kind of podcast. Another mistake I made is there's this really one cool guy and he was really interested in me, but I think my messages were too long. Like I wrote too much like, like I need to be more concise. So I've been trying to write more concise. That's another thing. And during the

conversation itself, I think one thing I make a lot of mistake is I really like listening to people's stories. So I let them talk, but some people, they talk like too long. So I need to be able to cut them, cut them right when you know yeah when it's not helpful and try the right spot yeah i guess i was laughing because it's i can relate to most of the points you've said like i remember i pronounce someone's name wrong sometimes also let people speak in for too long so it was just good to hear it from someone else as well yeah and where do you see the podcast even evolving in upcoming years or what are your ambitions and your plans? Sure.

Our ambition is we want to basically network a lot of people. While we're young, I think we have a unique point of relationship with someone. Because right now we want to grow it to at least like 10,000 subscribers. I think this year goes like 3,000 subscribers. So we're going to work on distribution on that side. The year afterwards, when I basically graduate high school and go to start going to college, my goal is like 10 30k subscribers. That's like the more like metric focused goals.

And I want to by, I think by September, I wanted to have 100 episodes recorded. We're on, we're on track to achieve that goal. And you want to really just interview a lot of cool people. And, you know, I guess really build our network, really build relationships of these people. And also have a large audience of maybe young founders and entrepreneurs who listen to us because I think we can give a unique, unique side of things. because a lot of the podcasts or other season veterans were just like asking them questions.

I don't really like that. And I think there's a lot to be gained by having two people who are building while interviewing people who are also young. I think that can give a unique angle. Because I think the world is changing so far. Like I am quite scared in some ways because technology is evolving.

There's so much things happening. Global politics is changing. A lot of things happening. So I want people's take on the future for us, not the current because we can't really do much about or they're past, you know. That's kind of what I'm... thinking of at the moment.

Yeah. And also raise, raise, there's people who were helping me out. But like once a mentor of mine told me not to get investment right now, so I'm listening to what he's saying. So I'm not going to get investment right now. But I think after like,

like 3,000 subscribers or some level, I'm going to raise some money or my startup makes more money. I think what probably well happens, my startup makes more money. And then using that money, I can, you know, build my podcast, hire some editing. There's.

Yeah, sounds awesome. Hopefully, we'll follow you and we'll follow similar strategy with my podcast and help to grow it. And with your guests, are they from South Korean Sea or international? A lot of them are international, so they're foreigners. But I used to do physical and when I did physical, they were all in Korea because it's physical. But now we've gone more online and most of our guests comes from actually surprisingly

Singapore, Seoul or San Francisco or New York. Wow. Literally the biggest hubs. What about the guests from London? Did you have any or plan to have any? We have, yeah, she's really cool. She had like a really big exit and her podcast. She has a podcast as well.

And what she says is she suffered from a nine-figure exit. I will need to check her out. I'm curious. Yeah. Yeah, but hopefully we'll have her on. And I guess she's from London, if I'm correct. And who else was from London? I want to have Harry Stebbings one day.

I'm not going to know. Harry Stebbings is the host of 20VC, which is the biggest venture capitalist podcast. And the crazy thing is he started at 18, right? Yeah, I guess, yeah. And what you did was he built a large network, and now he has a $150 million fund that he had. So he didn't go to college and he just became a, and he didn't build a really startup.

He built a media company called 20VC. And he has had like 3,000 podcasts, like a crazy number. He is literally one of the, he's the best business podcaster in the world at the moment, if I'm correct. Actually, I think the head of content. I think I might have subscribed this podcast, but I don't know his name. I'm ashamed, but I will do my homework. Yeah, he's not well known for,

I was surprised because I was talking with this one big venture capitalist. Like he's like the founder of the second biggest VC in South Korea. I was talking with him and he was like, he was like, oh, I don't know it. So, but it's really popular in Europe. And this is the question that actually someone asked me in one of the episodes that I recorded before. And I need to ask you. So what is the recurring team that you can see from the podcast that you did? something that people who spoke with told you.

The recurring theme, I guess just even going outside of the podcast, after a podcast, I usually have a lunch or dinner or like I have a conversation afterwards. And I think that is one of the reasons why I did podcasting is I got to get a more insider looking to how things are operating, how their lives are going. And it's a more realistic because on podcast, I can't be as truthful about everything.

Like I try to and I don't have things really high. But I think things I don't want a particular share, because everyone has made mistakes. There's no one's perfect, you know. So not even the podcast, just like networking and stuff. I just, they just tell interesting things that they're not necessarily hiding, but I just didn't ask, you know, but they're willing to share. And I guess a recurring theme is that people have made, it's very hard.

There's a lot of suffering, a lot of pain in their journeys. But what they do is they keep persevering and they keep remaining hopeful and they keep trying to, you know, improve. And another thing is these people are not. no really different than you. Like, like, like, like, I think this is like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I just, I mean, I asked him how he did all this, because, like, and he just said, I just worked. He just did, and, like, there's another guy I met, and he owned this massive building.

And he, and he, and he was just there, so I just came up and talk to him, and that venue, he, is, like, $20, $20,000 per day rent. Right? Oh. And, and I was asking him how he did he just said, he just worked hard. I think everyone, like, it's just like you do stuff and you keep pushing your outsides, just one step in front of the other. And that's like the biggest themes.

One step another, there's a lot of difficulties. But you have to just keep going through it. Yeah, I love it. So it's great. And as we will be finishing soon, do you want to promote yourself, the podcast or where people can follow you? Sure, yeah. So my podcast, it should be, I mean, by the time you published it, the name should be changed because the name isn't changing in 14 days,

but it's called Unicorn Talks, or you can just search up Elim Kalilov Unicorn Talks. I'm assuming Thomas you could put it on your description, so you'll probably have the links. LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, that's where I'm most active, so I guess that'll be the best place to reach out. Make sure to subscribe and follow.

Yes, exactly. Subscribe, follow, and comment. and if you if you want to have a chat i think i have a canly link on my lincoln and if you're founder then i'd love to have a chat if you're interested and um event bird is releasing i i'm supposed to release the it's like a super barebone mbp just release it today so you can use it if you want oh really today yeah and if you that's very simple yeah i mean i i chose to start working on like a week ago because I was thinking about it and I'm like I want to build software again and I've been thinking a lot about it but I want to start also building something because I missed that part of it

because podcasts I keep talking and learning things but I can't use it for anything you know that's one of my worries but yeah so event bird it's it's just called event actually the link right now is not eventpert but you can search up inventper and you'll probably find it well it's in beta so I don't know if you can't have access I'm kind of but yeah um event pretty one day probably see it. I also have AI for founders in LinkedIn. If you want, if you're in Seoul and if you want to come to AI meetup, it's there. I'm going to probably host one this month. If you're going to join, you can join as well. So that's a lot of things. But yeah. Sounds awesome. Big plans. We wish you good luck and I will make sure to share and support. And to finish up, have you got any

final message or maybe a question that you wish I asked you and didn't ask? I guess this is just a random rant, but I think this is the biggest life lesson I've learned, at least right now, is the fact that you, like one, there's a bunch, but I think this is a very quote I've been thinking a lot about is, you know, life is not about, it's a French quote, life is not about avoiding or running away from the storm,

but it's about learning to dance with the rain, right? And that's a quote I think is very important because, you know, growing up, I think, you know, I escaped from a lot of things. Like, I escaped from a lot of worries, a lot of insecurities, a lot of things I faced so, so much. Like, I was not even 1% of the person I am. And I'm not that cool, but, and I'm not that, like, good. Like, I'm not really much at the moment, but I was not even 1% like five years ago.

And I could not have imagined I was here. And I think the one thing that gave me confidence to do a bit more and to push myself to little bit more to do the things I did. And it's, even when it's, even when you feel like a failure, you just have to keep going. You just have to keep believing in yourself. You just have to. Like, even if it doesn't make sense, you have to be disillusional. You just have to believe in yourself that something good is going to come.

Because the moment you don't have everything is over. And sometimes you're going to feel like everything is over. But you just have to push yourself back up and try it again. Because if you don't, you're going to be, you're going to be stuck there for the rest of your life. And like, I, I couldn't imagine that I could be able. to talking to people in the podcast. I would be able to go to a networking party and where actually the people there know me

and like I can actually talk with people. I never even thought. I was always scared of even talking to strangers. I was scared of talking to people in my school. I used to just hide and play video games. And like it's a very slow incremental steps. Like when I first like start talking like just coming up to strangers, like it was so hard.

I felt like I was going to die. Like physically it felt horrible. But as I kept trying it, As I kept pushing myself, and it's like every single time I feel like I messed up. Like I went to this one conference. I felt like I was the most dumbest and insecure guy in that place. Then like some people thought they looked at me like I was stupid. And I felt like giving up.

I'm like, okay, I'm just try to practice talking, you know. I was going to practice pushing myself out there. And I think as I do that more and more, like now I have mentors who are worth so much money and not even the money parts. Like I have cool people around me. I can talk with these people. And it's like that and like Mark Manson and like other heroes of mine, I was able to reach out and connect with them. Shout out to David Park. He was a mentor and I connected with him.

He was a hero of mine. What's his name again? David Park. When I first built the AI Chrome extension, the entire startup strategy was basically around his startup, which called jennie.com. And, you know, I think it's worth $30 million. And he's, yeah, I met him physically and like, you know, I asked him questions and he's really helpful. he he just he's really he's a great guy and i don't know i make sure to check him out yeah yeah natu is also great he's also nat too yeah i think those are two really great people are shout

us i guess yeah it was a great message to finish with if you agree so we'd like to thank you for before before i need to shout out just one more uh rezo as well riso in case you rezo as well i'm thankful for you uh rizzo and j yeah i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry think for your time. Thomas. Norris, you know, it was inspiring chat and big plans that you shared. I've impressed by what you achieved and in such a young age. And I will make sure to keep following and supporting and I wish you all the best. You as well, Thomas, your podcast. The most recent one was like a blackbell jiu-jitsu and the MMA fighter. I like your story. I think you're going to become, I mean, you already kind of look like Chris Williamson. So maybe the future.

Chris Boyings. Thank you. I really appreciate it. It's nice to hear it, especially from someone that I feel like I can relate to, someone with experience from podcasting and someone ambitious. So I wish you the same and we'll stay in touch. Thank you. Thank you, Thomas, for your time.

Thanks for listening to Produce Bye with Tomer. Check out show notes for all the links. And don't forget to like, subscribe and leave your feedback. Speak soon.