Produced By - #19 - Álvaro Wallner Carrió: Animating TV Series Not Only From Valencia, Spain

Starting point is 00:00:02 Alvar Valmar Valmaric Carillon is a 2D animator and illustrator who has worked abroad but whose home base and native city is Valencia. Alvaro chose to follow his love for animation, studying fine arts at the Boretechnic University of Valencia. After two years studying traditional art, he moved to London on Erasmus, where he fell in love with doing 2D animation. He talks about life in Valencia in more detail and contrasted to his experience studying in London, as well as well as he fell in love with doing in animation. as well as what Spanish education is like in general. In addition to sharing his experience working in the industry and some helpful advice. Alvaro has worked for a number of animation studios and contributed to many well-known television programs. Listen to this episode to discover more about animation, learn about life in Valencia and Spain,

Starting point is 00:00:52 and find out more interesting facts about the animation industry. Enjoy it. Hello Alvaro, thank you for Jirina's today and Welcome to the show. Thank you for inviting me. For the beginning, can you please introduce yourself? So I am a GUD animator that has experience mostly on series, cartoons. I have a background where I studied fine arts, and then I move to animation.

Starting point is 00:01:23 And I've been working for a couple of years already, started as a freelancer, then move to work with companies inside and outside Spain. Are you currently based in Spain? Yeah. Right now I'm living in Valenci. that is where I grew up. And then you moved or you studied at London? I did study in Middlesex, my Erasmus year.

Starting point is 00:01:43 I studied Fine Arts in Valencia and then I moved to Middlesex in 2017. And I did there my Erasmus year. Yeah, it was really fun. Was it? Was it because of university or because of London or in what way? I think mostly because it was the first time that I was actually living alone. I studied in the same university, I mean, the university of the C. where I grew up, so I didn't have the necessity of renting a flat or anything.

Starting point is 00:02:08 So when I moved to London, it was just this whole freedom of being by yourself. And also, like, the university was very different from the one in Spain. So for me, I remember it was like a really, really great time. Then how did you find different culture? I don't think the culture was such a huge difference. The context was very different because I was, like, living in a dorm full of all the Erasmus people. Was it, like, in halls? Yeah, it was called Ivy Hole, I think.

Starting point is 00:02:36 Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Montever was European, so I feel like the culture was very similar. But at the same time, it was really cool to meet people from other parts of Europe, such as like Slovenia, Finland, Finland, Poland. And if you compare with the university in Valencia, were there also international students or probably not that many, but were there still some? Yeah, in Valencia, we had international students too, but they were a minority. And I think that in Middlesex, I don't know if you agree because you also studied there, right?

Starting point is 00:03:08 Yes. In Middlesex, either people that go there on Erasmus programs, well, I don't know if they do Erasmus programs now with the Brexit, but other than Erasmus programs, there's a lot of people that are not actually from the UK studying there all the years. So it feels like everybody's from a different place and it's just like a really cool place to meet people from mostly Europe, but also from places like Asia and everywhere. Yeah, I definitely agree because the course I went to. too. It was film and it wasn't Erasmus, it was a regular three-year course. And I would say more than half of students was definitely outside of UK. And I think actually there were quite a few people from Spain or Portugal. There are quite a few from Portugal, which is just next to Spain. So I remember that. Yeah. In my year also there were like at least six people from Portugal.

Starting point is 00:03:56 So I don't know if they were actually like majority or, you know, I don't really remember. But yeah, there were so many people from Portugal. And that's funny being like, like such a small country, you know. Yeah, and were there any classmates from Spain as well? Not in my year, but on my dorm, I was actually sharing with one girl from Valencia. Was it coincidence? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, she was studying law there, and I was studying animation.

Starting point is 00:04:21 And I also met like two other girls that were also from Valencia. So I think most of the people that were on Erasmus on Middlesex from Spain were from Valencia, because I guess like universities have this relationship. between them, but yeah, it was people from everywhere. Can you introduce Valencia a bit to us? Since the audience is probably primarily from UK or London, not everyone knows much about the city. Can you say a bit was the population where it is located and is letting about the city?

Starting point is 00:04:51 Yeah, okay. So Valencia is actually like, I think, the third biggest city in Spain. And is located on the south of Barcelona. Let's say, I think like around 400 kilometers on the south. It's more or less at the same height. If you see the map at the same place as Madrid, but just on the east coast. It's like Cita has a lot of tourism. And also, like, I feel personally it has good balance between being a big city, but also, like, not being too big.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Like, when I went to London, I felt like it was a great place to be there, you know, on Erasmus, being young, exploring, like, having, like, just too many places to see and too many people to meet. But I don't think it has the best quality of life in terms of everything is super far. rent is super expensive. It doesn't really feel that much welcoming to me. Valencia, for example, you can take the bike to go everywhere and it's not too big. So even if you live in the outside, you can be in the center in 20 minutes by bike. Oh, that's great. Yeah, that for me is a big plus. I'm like a bike guy. So yeah, it's great. And I guess the weather is warm most of the time, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. It's very warm. I mean, I would say now it's perfect. But I, I I think soon, like, let's say, like in one month or something, it's going to start to get too hot.

Starting point is 00:06:09 It usually goes from May, June, until, like, September or even further. I think the best time to visit, if anyone is going to come is around. I would say, like, it's either winter or spring for me, personally. And is it very touristy place? Yeah, I mean, it's touristic, but I think it's not as touristic as Barcelona. I mean, for sure, it's not as touristic as Barcelona. And there are also like other towns that are smaller, but they are more touristic like Alicante or something like that, you know. When I was living in Ireland and I was taking flights to go back to Valencia.

Starting point is 00:06:40 I saw that flights went from Dublin to Valencia like every three days, four days, but they had flights every single day to Alicante. And that's kind of funny because it's like a smaller town. You wouldn't expect that it would be like super crowded. But Alicante is just like on the south of Valencia. What is so popular about Alicante? I have no idea. I think just historically. It has been like a very touristic place, also near the sea.

Starting point is 00:07:04 So it has like all the checks, you know, for tourists to come. And it's very, very touristified, not only Alicante City, but the region. You know, we have Benidorm and other places, you know, that are also like very, very touristified. And I honestly don't know the history about it. I just know, I was born and there were tourists there already, you know. No, but Valencia sounds like a nice place to visit, not going to lie. So since you've got experience from studying in London as well as Valencia, can you compare the universities?

Starting point is 00:07:36 What are the similarities? What are the differences? Because probably most of the audience doesn't have the experience from studying in Spain? Yeah, the objected difference is that in Valencia, we have four years of study in fine arts. First two years, you have all the subjects are compulsory. And they are traditional drawing, traditional painting, sculpture. and then you have some subjects that are art history related, that are bit theoretical,

Starting point is 00:08:00 and then you have other subjects that are technology related. Let's say they show you how to use Photoshop, how to use Premiere, and so on, on a very basic level. Then on the third and fourth year, you can choose to go on Erasmus, or if you decide to study there, to keep studying in Valencia, you can choose. You have different subjects,

Starting point is 00:08:18 and they go, like, all directions. Compared to all universities in Spain, I think it's like a really good university because it has this, it embraces technology, So you can study animation there. You can have subjects in design, but also like subjects in contemporary art. You can just learn to do installations, contemporaneous sculptures, or oil borders, painting, you know, everything in between.

Starting point is 00:08:42 Also, film studies and something more theoretical. And then, University in London, when I was there, it was much more focused. They have animation course, three-danimation course. Everything is super divided. Well, not course, like degree. All that it could be like one subject or two subjects in Valencia, you have like a degree there, which I think is great if you already have a very clear idea of what you want to do.

Starting point is 00:09:07 And that would be like mostly the differences between the both universities, but I think that all the differences that I would like to mention is that in Middlesex we had, let's say, like a room for working, that you could be there just the whole time and you could like develop your projects there. And that for me was huge plus. because I really, really like to work there. Whether in Valencia, you go to the class

Starting point is 00:09:29 and then you do stuff there, you know, it was very practical, so you were painting there and stuff. But if you wanted to continue doing something after class, I think you could book a class, but most of the people we just went back home and just did all projects there. And also, like, Middlesex had more resources. Had this room with computers.

Starting point is 00:09:46 You could rent cameras. You could do all of these stuff. I think Valencia is more limited, but we also have to say that, at Valencia University. well, to be specific, was like the Polytechnical University of Valencia, because there are two.

Starting point is 00:09:58 Valencia's degree in fine arts has just so many people. We were like, I don't really remember, but maybe like five classes of 50 people each. And that would be for one year, so. Why is that so popular? Are there so many people interested in art or is the course or university somehow well-known?

Starting point is 00:10:18 I mean, I think the university has good reputation. I think that there's a lot of people from other parts of near Valencia and also from maybe the south of Spain or other places, I have seen people coming to study here. I think we have really big universities in Valencia, you know? We have like less degrees,

Starting point is 00:10:34 of course, so you will have to count everybody that studied 3D animation, animation, fine arts, design, illustration. You'll have to take all of them in Middlesex and put them in the same degree. So then you could compare. He's like a big university. It has like a huge campus in Valencia and Middlesex when I went there

Starting point is 00:10:50 it felt like a bit cozy. You know, you basically saw everybody Yeah, so if you sum up university at Middlesex Was it a good experience for you? Is it something that you would recommend to people to try if they can? Yeah, 100%.

Starting point is 00:11:04 I had a great time and I really took a profit of it. I kind of felt like I studied for free You also have to say this, like you study for free in Valencia mostly. Oh yeah, I was going to ask that

Starting point is 00:11:17 that's a good point. Because when I went to Middlesex my parents had to pay accommodation. I kind of felt like I couldn't just like waste the time, you know. I felt like a bit responsible. So I think I really found like I was in a sweet spot there, you know. I was working a lot, but I was also like enjoying the time on the weekends, you know, and visiting places and stuff. You probably have some knowledge, but in the UK you have to pay for the university and it's not cheap. I don't know what it's like now after Brexit, but when I went there, it's quite a lot of money.

Starting point is 00:11:51 was if you have to pay for it in Spain in general or in Valencia or what is it like in there? So university here is not free, but it's super cheap compared to how it is there because it's mostly paid through taxes. I don't like to say it's free because it's not really free. You're going to be paying it if you work here. But my year could be like a thousand two hundred, thousand four hundred. I don't really remember. Plus you have all these scholarships that you can apply to. I don't really know what the requirements are, you know, just applied for the scholarship and if they think you need it, you just won't have to pay and they also will pay you like a small amount so you can buy supplies and stuff like that. In Middlesex, it's not a public university.

Starting point is 00:12:34 Well, I don't really know how it works there, you know, but it's very expensive. Like I think my year was 12,000 euros every year or something like that. It is expensive, yeah. It's public, but I guess that's just how universities work in the UK that you have to pay for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I wasn't sure if it was public or not. because I remember like taking it back then. Yeah, I mean, like the difference is huge.

Starting point is 00:12:55 And also a big pro, if you go on Erasmus and you go, I mean, I don't know if you can now go to Erasmus on the UK, but or there's like something different program maybe. But I didn't have to pay the university there. You pay the university where you are, let's say, base or where you studied before, you know, like the University of Valencia. So still had to pay like accommodation, but I think it was like that you can really take profit of whole year

Starting point is 00:13:20 studying there, you know? Yeah. And what was the reason in a first place why we chose London or UK or the specific university? So actually, my first option was Estonia. You know? Wow, I didn't expect that. Yeah. And you know why? Because they have a really, I mean, animation has a world. I wouldn't say prestigious, you know, like everybody's going to know about it. But they had like a really cool animation university in Estonia. Is it? I don't quite remember the name now. Yes. They have these teachers. Prit Parn, Olga Parn, that they have, like, there's quite a tradition of animation in Estonia, and I think also, like, in Czech Republic for sure. Is it in FAML?

Starting point is 00:14:00 The town, you mean? No, because I'm from Czech Republic, and I spoke with someone who studies at FAMU, which is Film University, well known in Prague. So just wondering if the animation course is in that university as well, or if it's a different one. I have no idea about Czech Republic. I just studied a bit here and there about the history of animation there. Okay, okay, yeah. But I know that I wanted to go to Tallinn when I was going to Erasmus.

Starting point is 00:14:25 And that was my first option. So one had like better grades or something. He just went there. And my second option was London. I remember I saw the website of Middlesex. I looked like a really cool place, you know. And also it was completely different thing, you know. I was going to go to Tallinn that probably, I have never been,

Starting point is 00:14:42 but probably looks like a small place, not a lot of, let's say, social life or something. Who knows, maybe I'll be surprised that. And London was like this huge city. full of things to do and out of that. But I really don't really get it at all that I went there. Yeah. And did you say you didn't get into talent because of grades?

Starting point is 00:15:00 Or what was the reason? Well, they had this system. It depends on your level of English, depend on, I think also your grades or something. Like, now I really can't remember because it's so many years. They just had this system of points. If you have this amount of that, you have more points

Starting point is 00:15:16 and that's it. So... Yeah, that makes sense. So can you tell us more about your beginnings before you started at university? Did you study animation at school before? Or actually, how does it work with schools at Spain? Yeah. So I think until you are 16, you just do it the same as everyone. You just go to high school, primary school.

Starting point is 00:15:39 Then you have two paths. You can choose the path to go to uni. Or you can try to do something that is more technical education. It's more practical stuff. to uni, let's say. And if you decide to go to uni, I mean, you can go to uni, like, even if you do this technical path, but if you go to uni, most people will do these two years of uni preparation. That is basically like high school 2.0. But then you can already specialize, and I studied the art one. So I had subjects just like language, English, some science stuff,

Starting point is 00:16:13 but we also have subjects that were like drawing, traditional drawing or technical drawing. Yeah, like, really, to art. Yeah, maybe they would have, like, three subjects that were, like, a bit specific. After that, you do, like, the exam to go to uni, which is this giant exam that everybody goes there, everybody's, like, crying and everybody's super stressed about it. But because I already had in mind that I wanted to do fine arts, you didn't need to have super great grades to go there, you know? I mean, I wasn't nervous.

Starting point is 00:16:43 And, yeah, like, when these exams are, you also have general subjects, you know, like language and stuff, you can't get away of that. So you have to do that, but you also have some other exams that are like what you have studied during these years, like traditional drawing and stuff. Then you get a mark. With that mark, you can try to see if you can get in this uni or in this other uni. I don't know. How does it work in Czech Republic?

Starting point is 00:17:05 I guess it's kind of similar. You finish high school, which is either three or four years. Then you can go to university. You need to apply for it. But at the end of high school, in the fourth year, It's kind of similar as you said. There is this really big exam that people are stressed about. It's like a finish of those four years.

Starting point is 00:17:26 And if you finish it, it's up to. If you want to go to uni, obviously you need to pass that exam and you need to do some application. Then you go to uni and it's three years bachelor's or four years postgraduate. Yeah, and that's it. Some people go to uni, some people don't go to uni. But the difference is that in Czech Republic, unies are for free. Whereas in the UK you have to pay for it.

Starting point is 00:17:51 That's a little disadvantage. But at the same time, I feel like that in the UK, because I studied film, I flag that all the subjects in the course that I did were related to film that were actually helpful for what I was studying. Whereas in Czech Republic, you still study other subjects that are not really that necessarily.

Starting point is 00:18:11 More theoretical, maybe. Yeah, prior bliss. Well, I mean, I haven't studied at a university in Czech Republic, but that's what I know, that you still study these subjects that I wouldn't really find necessary or too helpful. Yeah. It doesn't go to the point, right? Yeah. Oh, you mean like in general, they teach you more these basic stuff, you know, like a really strong foundation, right?

Starting point is 00:18:35 Yeah, the point I'm trying to describe is that in the UK, I feel like that you are more focused on it. That you go to uni and you actually study what you want, whereas I think in Czech Republic you still study some general stuff that is not that help. I would say. Yeah, I agree 100%. But I may be wrong from someone who studies there, but that's what I think and that's based on my knowledge, yeah. Yeah, no, that's definitely also like a difference that I also found. Here you have these two years that were just traditional drawing and painting, you know,

Starting point is 00:19:06 so you learn how to do oil painting, you learn how to even like build a frame for the old painting and how to put like imprimation. I don't know how to say it in English, but you know, like this material that you put before you actually start applying the oil. So it's very like traditional. You are in the 19th century and you're learning even like how to make this thing, you know, and you have to buy this weird produce that is kind of like rabbit tail and stuff like that. It's not actually a rabbit tail, okay, but it's called something like that. And you have to boil them and you have to make like a potion kind of and then you have to put it on the frame, you know, like not on the frame, but on the textile to make it

Starting point is 00:19:41 ready to be painted. And that all happens in the first two years. It's like a history class. yeah yeah it's kind of like Harry Potter but for painting and yeah in London is just straight to the point you go there first year maybe you have never drawn in your life you just go straight into animation you know I mean you have drawing classes there

Starting point is 00:19:59 but it's super straight to the point yeah I think I agree with what you said I feel the similar or the same about what is it like in my country yeah so by now you finished your education right yeah yeah I finished like four years and something ago but it just feels like

Starting point is 00:20:15 a different part of my life completely. Yeah, yeah. So before we move on from the topic of university, can you share some tips for people who are studying at university, how to take advantage of their years there or how to benefit from it? Yeah. I mean, I think everything nails down to the attitude. First of all, university is going to be like one of the few places

Starting point is 00:20:40 where you're going to be like super free. I mean, depends on what you study. but usually if you have to do your own project, you're going to have so much freedom to approach in the way you want. And I think you should really try to take it seriously, let's say, try to really like to a project that you are proud of and not just try to focus on grades, for example. I don't know about other parts of Europe, but here in Spain, after studying so many years of this typical education that you just have to do exams, pass, get good grades, go to the next level. I feel like people when you go to uni

Starting point is 00:21:12 that are still stuck in that mentality somehow and you really have to think a bit about yourself in the future what are the abilities that you're going to need to develop independently of what grades you're going to get or I also try to do like what you really enjoy if you have the option to choose

Starting point is 00:21:29 and all of that try to do what you really enjoy and I think that's the best way of also taking it seriously and trying to get the best out of it. Yeah, I wonder why did you actually go to study at the university? that because you wanted to develop your artistic skills? I'm probably wrong, but I would assume that you learn by yourself in your free time

Starting point is 00:21:49 and isn't that enough to work as a freelancer or get to the industry? Or does actually uni provide you with enough of knowledge or much more that it's actually helpful? Yeah. So actually I listened to the first podcast you did to the first episode and I'm going to agree with Jacob. He said like you don't need to go to uni. I mean, at least for animation is true that you don't need to go to uni. not like they're going to be a doctor.

Starting point is 00:22:13 But also, going back to the context here in Spain, uni has become like very democratized. Everybody goes to uni, basically. A lot of people go to uni. And I say, like, when you just go out of high school, you don't really see many alternatives, you know? I mean, if you can't go to uni because you don't have enough grades,

Starting point is 00:22:32 then, yeah, you're probably going to have to look for something else to do or to a longer path to uni doing these technical studies. But if you do all right in class and your kids are not bad, you're probably going to end up going to uni because it's like what everybody does. In my case, I was thinking about this the other day. I don't think I made a bad choice because I really don't know what would have been the alternative.

Starting point is 00:22:54 And now it's easy to think when you are already like on your late 20s or something, mid-20s. I don't know. I mean, I'm somewhere there. It's easy to think independently or how to do this online course and gain this skill and this and that and how to approach people that are already working here through on social media or something.

Starting point is 00:23:10 But when you are 18 and you have done nothing, it's really hard to feel like, no, I'm not going to go to you. I'm just going to stay home and I'm going to like draw, you know. So yeah, I mean, I really don't regret going to uni, but it's not necessary, you know. If someone feels that they're going to do better at home, I would say just give it a try, you know.

Starting point is 00:23:29 There's also like this ability that you develop when you are by your own, that is just being independent. That you have to see what works for you and also like you are only, with yourself. You don't have anyone behind you pushing you to finish work or anything. And then you're going to find out if you really like to do it or not. Or if you just were there because you had to do something that also a lot of people go to uni. Just because, you know, you have to go to uni. But they're not really sure if it's

Starting point is 00:23:52 going to be good for them or not. Yeah, I definitely agree because that's something I was curious about. If it's similar as in film, because to become a filmmaker, obviously you don't need to go to it. But it gives you great advantages. You learn stuff. You meet people. you develop and build your network. It helps you to develop the right mindset and stuff. So I see that with animation, it's similar to that. Yeah, we also have to like make the point that people are 18 when they have to go to uni and they have probably never made a decision like that in their life. So I would advise, I think it would be to do a lot of research,

Starting point is 00:24:28 as much research as you can, but not about the uni itself because unit is going to be four years, but about the job that you want to do. Or just lifestyle that you want to have or something like that, necessarily only about the job. But if you want to study animation, I would say do some research about how the animation industry works or what is the day to day of animator, let's say. And if you like that, then you can probably like choose different paths to get there, you know, university, maybe studying something more technical, maybe just by yourself. But at least you know you are like more sure that it's going to be worth in the end. Yeah, I definitely agree. And also I think a good point is that you can start uni and you can find a,

Starting point is 00:25:06 out after a few months that it's not for you and just finish. And there is nothing wrong with that. But it's a good thing to at least give it a try to find out because it's better than not to do it at all. And then years after, you may be regretting that you haven't tried. This way you at least give it a try, you find out that you just find a different path. Because for everyone, works something different. Yeah, I agree.

Starting point is 00:25:31 You know, you meet a lot of people that have started uni and they have, they didn't like their degree. They changed it, something. Like, on the big picture, it's not going to be a difference. When you are 50 and you have either 20 or 18 years of experience or something, it really doesn't matter. Yeah, I think it's really important too. Before, you can choose that. You have to make the decision.

Starting point is 00:25:50 You do, like, the research and you try to find out the different jobs and stuff. I think it's going to be better for you. Like, I had, like, very different options when I was going to your uni. I was either going to do fine arts or psychology, philosophy. basically physical education, you know, like sports science, or I think also computer science. Just a quick one. If you enjoy our podcast, please give us a review on your favorite podcast app, subscribe or share it with your friends. For more information, visit the show notes.

Starting point is 00:26:21 Thank you and back to the show. So why did you decide for this career path? For the career path of, you mean going to uni and then animation or just because I wanted to be an animator? because you had as you said so many options why did you go for animation was it simply because you wanted to become animator yeah so i remember i actually went to university i think a friend of a friend of my dad was studying there you know and i just went there one afternoon the guy looked like stereotypical fine arts student long beer long hair he actually showed me like a project that he was working on it was like a short film you know animation short film and that was a plus for me I like the vibes that this place gave me, you know, like you go here and you're going to do the projects that you want to do.

Starting point is 00:27:08 You're going to learn how to do things by doing things, which is true, like at least in fine arts. It also goes like it's more theoretical in Valencia than in London, but still very practical, of course. And also because before going to uni, I was like a fan of independent animation. I was watching, like, people on YouTube posting their own stuff. And it was really calling for me the fact that they were able to do everything in their fouch. there are a lot of animators that you are probably going to meet that are this kind of Disney slash Pixar fans they dream about working in Disney or working in Pixar

Starting point is 00:27:40 where me on the other hand I really was looking like forward to just do some independent animation let's say I just really liked the topics that were artistic crazy short films and I also decided to go to Middlesex because I also found about it because there was a festival but there's still an animation festival in the University of Valencia called Prime the Animation, in which you have films from students. So a lot of people from everywhere in the world, if you are studying animation, you have a short film.

Starting point is 00:28:11 You can send it to that festival and it gets screened in the university. I don't think I went there before starting to study, but also seeing that there's this animation movement which students are just like sharing what they do, the short films and stuff. It's also like a really great environment, I think. It pushes you further to that you want to do that. to study to do that even more. Yeah, sounds like a great first impression that it made on you. So when you finished your education,

Starting point is 00:28:39 can you tell us how you planned your way into the industry? How did you look for your work or maybe you already were working? Completely unplanned, of course. Left for the last minute. Yeah. No, I mean, I knew I wanted to work as an animator, of course. actually also going to university in Valencia is like a safe path because if you don't want to be an animator halfway

Starting point is 00:29:02 you can just change and be an illustrator you can study something different you can choose different subjects and I knew that I wanted to be an animator then also I started actually doing animation in my third year of uni when I went to London was the first time that I actually did animation third and fourth year I was already super deep into animation I liked it before and then when I did the process I really liked it too so that was like a big thing for people

Starting point is 00:29:24 A lot of people try animation because they really like animation, you know. Everybody likes animation nowadays, but doing it is very different from watching it, okay? There's actually like this meme that is a happy face saying, oh yeah, thinking about animation. And then, you know, the same woman crying actually doing animation. You have to be very patient, you know. I think people go with the expectations to have really fast results or really cool stuff, and you have to be many hours. But I really like the process, you know.

Starting point is 00:29:50 I'm like just being on my computer working, listening to music and stuff. So. And sorry, you interrupt, but do you draw animation in software on computer or by hand? Or what's actually the process you do just to get an idea? On software, on software. I mean, in Middle States, we started doing some traditional animation. But I think that process nowadays is, I don't think there's almost anybody that still uses it professionally. So it's just done on the software.

Starting point is 00:30:21 You have like many different software. you have After Effects, you have anime, Doom, Boom, TV Paint, all the different software. And yeah, when I finished my fourth year at university, I was like, on one hand I was sure I didn't want to study anymore because I didn't live with like a very happy idea about university. I just felt that like it was my time to be just on my own, let's say. And then I spent like, I think it was two years working on my short film.

Starting point is 00:30:49 and I was also like working on other stuff. Very rarely, most of the time I was just working on my short film. And instead of doing like a master's or something, I just rented a spot on a co-working place in Valencia, which I think was a good idea too, because I met a lot of different artists there, like graffiti people, illustrators and stuff, and people that I would have never met if I would have just stayed at uni.

Starting point is 00:31:14 And I was mostly working on my short film, you know, which I didn't finish. So another two years lost. So the thing is that it was taking me in a super long time to finish it because I was super big perfectionist. Honestly, it wasn't because I didn't work hard because I literally go into the place every day and just spend there eight, nine hours working on my own stuff. And I have really, really happy memories of that freedom.

Starting point is 00:31:38 I was also working, you know, I was also like doing some freelance stuff, mostly doing some banners, so like more illustration. You know, one kind I also felt like I didn't have the necessary ability to start working in the industry, you know? I didn't feel like confident enough. So that plus wanted to do my project, it was keeping me from starting to look for jobs. And actually, when I started to look for jobs, I just got jobs right away. I started looking for jobs when I moved abroad with my girlfriend. She was doing like a practice, an internship, I think it was called in other part of Europe. So I moved with her and to pay the room. This is funny. I started looking

Starting point is 00:32:13 for jobs as a waitress or as something that doesn't have anything to do with animation. just because I didn't feel like I had what it takes to start working as an animator. But then when I started actually looking for animation staff, I started freelancing right away, you know. I think that was 2020. And was it because the place you moved to that it was easier to find the job there or because you were just underestimating yourself before? No, I mean, actually I got it. I was freelancing for a guy in the UK. I would have gotten that job if I stayed in Valencia too.

Starting point is 00:32:44 I just didn't start. I mean, I don't regret it because I was really really. like enjoying my time and working on whatever I wanted to do. But I also had like a bit of a blog saying like I could have started working earlier for sure. It's also true that the work that I did when I was on my own, I think I did a really good animation, let's say, when I was just doing my staff because I could spend like two weeks on doing a shot. So it's going to move right.

Starting point is 00:33:07 It's going to look good, you know, so probably that also helped me to get other jobs. But as soon as I started just really looking for staff, I started freelancing. I started doing a job for three weeks, then two weeks. that I also was doing my short film. Then I did like another job for one week, for one month, and then I had a break of two weeks and stuff. But it really never got longer than one month. I kept like having stuff to do.

Starting point is 00:33:31 And when I was already some months doing that, I was freelancing and applying to studios. So I progressively abandoned my short film, which I still have it there, you know. Still not finished? Oh, okay. Yeah. No, it still not finished.

Starting point is 00:33:46 But are you going to finish it one day? Yeah, now, I mean, I know I'm not finished it because I don't want to because I also do music. So on my free time, I prefer to be doing music than to keep doing animation after working full time on it. But if I wanted, I will keep working on it. It's not because I can't really. But yeah, like, I was freelancing and applying for studios. I remember I almost got a job in this really cool studio in London. I remember like this time, you know, like where you're going to get like your first really cool job.

Starting point is 00:34:16 and I was so nervous. I had to do like re-interviews. It was a big process to get into it. And in the end, I didn't get in, you know. I still had to work. And I think like around summer, I got a job in Dublin. Was it in different studio or freelancing? No, that was my first studio job.

Starting point is 00:34:35 Was it online, so remote? So actually, well, also like information for if anyone wants to work as an animation in Ireland, they're really open to remote working. So in my case, I was working from home. Also because it was 2021, so not the best year. We were not back to normal 100%. So in Ireland, you're going to work remotely. But they usually want you to be inside the country.

Starting point is 00:35:03 If you're going to be on a contract, you have to work from inside the country. So I was working remotely inside my room, kind of like when I was freelancing, but I just was in another country, which was funny. It was like, I'm moving to another country. but I'm not actually working in a studio. I'm not actually working like surrounded by people. You know, I'm just like, on my room, again. And was it some well-known studio you can mention or not well-known?

Starting point is 00:35:27 Yeah, yeah, it was Cavalier. I don't think, I mean, I think people mostly know Cartoon Saloon in Ireland because it has gone to the Oscars and everything. So Cavalier is not such a big studio, but my experience there was amazing, you know. So as I told you, I'm not Disney or Pixar fan, so I don't really feel like I'm more valuable if I just work in a bigger studio or something like that. You know, I really like to work in a project that I like and have like really good conditions. And I don't know how to say that.

Starting point is 00:35:58 Ambiente, you know, I would say in Spanish. But it would be like a good environment of work. Yes, yes. So how long do you spend in that place? So in Ireland, I started like in summer and I think it was around eight or nine months that I worked there. I mean, I jumped in the middle of the production. They had already started the series, you know, when I jumped in.

Starting point is 00:36:21 Can you remind us what production was it? It was boy, girl, dog cat, mouse cheese. So, yeah, it's already out there if you want to watch it. I think it's available, I think it's on Netflix, in places that I speak English or French. It's not in Spain. Couldn't show it to my parents, but... So did you enjoy working on that series?

Starting point is 00:36:43 Yeah, for being one of my friends. first jobs. First, let's say, like, job on a contract, it was amazing. I felt super supported by the whole team. I mean, a big pro of working animation industry, I think it's going to be hard to find people there that suck. Most of the people that are actually, you know, animators, production and stuff, that they are all great people, you know, they are like-minded, they are creative, they are sensitive, they have empathy, and they are fun, you know. We were doing like calls every day. A lot of times we're just getting to know each other. because we were all from home.

Starting point is 00:37:15 And that was like a really cool thing because you were working from home, but at the same time, you kind of felt like these people were your friends. So when you actually went to meet them, like, oh man, great to see you with legs and everything. You're actually the real person.

Starting point is 00:37:29 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like this 3DD rendering model, like, looks really good, you know? Yeah, I agree. And why did you finish in that place? Well, I mean, also, like, another thing on animation is that usually, like, they are, like, temporal contracts, you work in a production, and if you work in a big studio, they sometimes do move you from one place to the other, you know.

Starting point is 00:37:51 You keep working on other productions. But if the studio is kind of small or medium size, they are usually like you are going to finish the job there when you finish the production. I don't know if people like this or they, you can like it and you can dislike it, but it's true that if you were an animation, you're probably going to be jumping from place to place quite often. But then with experience from working here, was it easier for you to find it? job in a new place? Yeah, actually, I was really lucky because I found the job even before finishing the wine in Ireland. Ireland has great industry, so before finishing my job in Ireland,

Starting point is 00:38:24 I was already doing interviews to keep working in another studio in Ireland. And then I got a call. I mean, I was applying to everything on the internet. And I got a call to work in a place in Valencia. Because I was with my girlfriend. We kind of both made a decision that it would be cool to go back to Valencia. And yeah, I decided like I just started working as an animator here at home. Actually, the first time, after like being working like for, I think more than a year,

Starting point is 00:38:54 it's like the first time that actually worked as an animator in Valencia. And is it again in a company or as a freelancer? Yeah, I know in a company. I have mostly worked in companies ever since. I think working as a freelancer, probably you can get good stuff. But I feel like working for a company is just like more comfortable, safer, however you want to name it. Not 100%, because after the production,

Starting point is 00:39:18 you're going to have to look for another job. But if you work for animation studios, that's probably how it's going to go, you know, for most of the people. So can you talk more about your current job or even current company? So yeah, now working in Tomavision, that is like company, which I think is based in the Canary Islands, at least like, I don't know if they have two places, Barcelona and Canary Islands.

Starting point is 00:39:43 It's like a company. They do 2D, they do 3D, and I'm working on a top secret project. And can you mention, if you can say publicly, some credits, you've got maybe for some previous shows or films you worked on? Yeah, so I worked on, well, I don't even want to think too much about the freelance stuff, like a bunch of things, you know. About series, I worked in boy and girl,

Starting point is 00:40:11 and then I worked on the favorite. godparents, you know, they did like reboot, I think it's called a reboot. They did like a new series about the very odd parents, which is mixed with real people, you know, real actors. And I worked there on a very short time. They also worked on a Valencian series called Sex Symbols here in Valencia, on another series called Traso Critico, that's still from Valencia. So they are like not well known at all, these two. And now on this one. When I was a freelancer, I did clean for a film. It was like an animation version of the Night of the Living Dead.

Starting point is 00:40:49 Yeah, that's probably all the stuff that I have worked on except freelance stuff. Yeah. I wonder, can you introduce us a bit more about the process, how we work as animator? Well, if you work in a studio, it's going to be very specialized. So you get like some digital files from that someone has prepared for you. you animate those characters and then you just upload them on some platform

Starting point is 00:41:16 and you do it over and over again until there's no animation to do and then you go home you know and yeah that was a brief yeah I mean it's very simple if you think it that way but depending on the production the process is very different you know it's not the same

Starting point is 00:41:35 have mostly worked on cut out animation so far what does it mean I mean, I'm a 2D animator actually I don't know if I have even mentioned it I do like, let's say cartoons I have tried doing 3D I actually was learning last summer

Starting point is 00:41:49 but I haven't worked on that Is that because 2D interests you more or Yeah, yeah I really love drawing, you know, and painting and stuff sort of like natural moves to go for 2D films I also like more the aesthetic

Starting point is 00:42:02 I'm just more attached to the drawing let's say and on cut out 2D animation is basically having like a puppet it's like a digital puppet and you can basically move his arms, you can move his head and you can replace different parts of the body

Starting point is 00:42:17 and this is way faster than if you actually had to redraw the puppet all the time because you don't have to worry about the head being too big or things going out of proportion and it's like a thousand times faster so cut out animation I've done it with Flash

Starting point is 00:42:31 now animate and Tombum which are like the two main softwares for this but yeah it's basically like you have a digital puppet I mean they actually give you scene you have the background there and you have the characters but the characters are not moving you know so you actually have to move the characters you have to make them talk with the audio file that's attach in the file so you do the lip sync you do the animation the acting and stuff make it all like move really nicely and smooth and then just like upload it so the another part of

Starting point is 00:42:59 the production would be like post processing you know they add some effects shadows or something on the characters and that will be cut out mostly doesn't change too much if you were from flash or tomb boom it changes the software It's like very different approach, but the basic of it is the same. You just remove different parts and you replace, for example, the hands usually replace them, you know? So you have 20 different hands of the character and you can select the hand that is like close fist if you want to make him angry or like an open hand if he's like saying like

Starting point is 00:43:27 this or that. Whereas if you do like, I think they call it traditial now, it would be like drawing animation. You basically has drawn the computer. Someone also prepares the scene for you. Now, when I, where I worked before, it was such a small team that we were basically doing everything ourselves. I really like that. Like, working in a small studio is also like really cool when you can try different roles. And like someone who is doing layout, then it starts animating and stuff.

Starting point is 00:43:52 And you can really like learn different skills there. Yeah, like explore different things. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, when you are drawing it, it's just like basically the same as when you're drawing on Photoshop, I guess. I mean, I guess you have drawn on Photoshop and all the digital software. But just you have like a timeline and you know when you move through this timeline like the drawings are moving so that would be like the two different ways of animating into the animation I think. Yeah and how much freedom do you have when it comes to the animation process? Creative freedom.

Starting point is 00:44:27 Because I wonder for example you said to describe character as someone who's angry so you animate let's say hands or his movement. Does someone give you a direction what to do or you know by yourself? if you've got some kind of freedom and then someone gives you feedback on that. Yeah. So one of the things that you are 100% going to get if you start working as an animator is storyboard. Every different file is going to be like a different shot

Starting point is 00:44:52 of that storyboard. So on the storyboard, you have a basic indication of what the characters are doing, where they are position, the composition and everything, you know. So you start with that. You have that as an idea of how to move. And first you do like a blocking phase in which you are going to just hit the basic poses. If the character is going to like jump, probably you're just going to do first like the posing where he's going down to jump.

Starting point is 00:45:18 And then another pose in which he's up jumping. And then like another one in which he has already fallen back. So that would do like a blocking phase. Usually you have like a lead or someone who supervises your work who's going to check that blocking phase. Going to give you some adjustments or some corrections and then you move into animation. And in terms of creativity, I personally don't think you have that much creativity. You have like one way of doing things. They probably have this idea of how the characters want to move,

Starting point is 00:45:46 or there's more freedom. You can, like, really tell from one animator to the other who has animated that scene. But if you try to do something that is like too much outside of the box, of course they're going to call it because, like, you have to remember that that project already has someone who is putting the creative vision, you know, We're deciding how the characters are going to do this or that. So if all the animators will be able to do whatever they wanted to, you know, with the files, it will look pretty much chaotic, I think.

Starting point is 00:46:14 So I understand it, but I don't really think there's a lot of creative freedom. I mean, depends on what you want, of course. On the acting, you have freedom. You don't have to follow the storyboard 100%, especially if you make it better. But if you want to be like to creative, chances are that most of the time, you're going to get the work back because you just decided to do something like

Starting point is 00:46:35 too creative and the director just thought that let's stick with what's in the storyboard. And time is a big constraint when you are working on animation, especially on TV series, I think. I think it depends on the production, but you don't really want to get too creative and spend too much time thinking about things

Starting point is 00:46:53 and about the meaning of this and that because if you don't get it right, you're going to have to redo it and you just do it. and you try to be like very time efficient when you're working in animation. Yeah. As you said, you are not a big fan, let's say, of big studios such as Pixar or Disney. Can you say what is then your favorite animation?

Starting point is 00:47:13 Have you got either a favorite studio or favorite film or characters or type of animation so that we can get the idea? So I don't know, just to name like random stuff, but I really like David Firth, the creator of Salad Fingers. I don't know if you have seen any of the idea. that. He's a guy who started doing animation on the early times of YouTube and he had just so many short films that are like dark, surreal. The first ones are really badly animated and the guy just got away with that. He made like a huge following, you know, for such a dark

Starting point is 00:47:45 and weird stuff. I also like Felix Colgrave, which is another animator from Australia and he also does his own short films, uploads them on YouTube. I remember like when I started, before uni, I was just watching this short film, I was like, oh my God, this is so cool. I love doing music too. So for the animation, it's like, man, I can draw, I can record the music, I can make the sounds. It's like this medium in which I felt like I could do everything, you know? Basically, if I was a millionaire or something, I would be doing like my own short films, somewhere in the mountains. Yeah, yeah. In a cave, just doing my own stuff. Because it just feels like, it feels amazing. I'm glad you asked me because sometimes it's hard to remember why

Starting point is 00:48:28 you started doing this in the sense that you just go day by day. It's like a very creative job, let's say, but it's still a job. So you kind of lose track of why you started doing this. Other examples are really fast would be Late Night Work Club, which is like a collective of different animators that have done stuff. And like almost everyone that has added a short film in the collection has great work. I'm also like a big fan of student films. What I do like some crazy student films from Tallinn, you know,

Starting point is 00:48:57 from the Estonian University or something like that. I usually really like it. Yeah, I googled those you mentioned. For example, Felix Colgrave, and I think it's worth Googling for the audience because the animation is really interesting. Yeah, it's amazing. And he does everything, you know, like,

Starting point is 00:49:15 he does the sounds. I mean, I think on the late films, he does even, like, all the sounds. He does the sounds, he does all the animation. It takes, like, a long time, you know? I don't know if he said that, like, takes him like around one minute of animation every month. Yeah, that's what.

Starting point is 00:49:31 Yeah. Because you have to do everything by yourself. And maybe he's also mentioning, like, drawing the backgrounds or whatever. Also another fun thing about him, you know, like just showing that I'm a huge nerd here. He does a lot of his short films. He starts with the first scene. And then he animates the second one and he hits the third one. But he doesn't really have a plan of what's going to happen next.

Starting point is 00:49:51 He's really like making the film while thinking about it. I think that's like a cool thing if you want to keep it just interesting for yourself. Because just imagine that if you do it like a studio, you really have to spend like months just planning everything. And then when you have everything planned, you know what's going to happen, you know, on every part. Then you actually have to do it. And it's like, I'm not interested anymore. You know, I feel like this is over for me.

Starting point is 00:50:14 But still you don't have anything because you have written the script, maybe it on the storyboards. No, it sounds like interesting process. And people have different approaches. And if it works for someone, why not? Yeah, if you are on your own, you know, like you don't have to coordinate a big team of people. Yeah, I agree. Well, before we finish Alvaro, do you want people to follow you somewhere or do you want to share any links or social media of you?

Starting point is 00:50:39 Yeah, I mean, I have, if you do my name and surname, which are really unique because my surname is German and my name is Spanish. So I'm probably the only person on earth with that name and surname. So if you just Google me, you will find. me. I have Instagram. I even have like a Tumblr that I use as a portfolio, you know. I'm not really big on social media. So it's not like I'm going to be posting there every day or something, you know, but if anyone is just curious about I, you can just Google me and you'll find me, you know. Yeah, but it might be good for inspiration. And if it interests someone, maybe we'll get some following. You never know. Yeah, that's good. Cool. I will add the links in the show notes

Starting point is 00:51:23 if anyone wanted to have a look. So I would finish it for today. I would be happy to catch up any time in a future for another part. And are there any final notes that you would like to add? I also do music. If anyone is interested in that, too. I have a band called Family Gringo and another one called Malmono. Two music groups.

Starting point is 00:51:44 Yeah, yeah, in music bands. I mean, that's basically where all my creativity is going, like, in the last years. As I told you, like, you work as a full-time animator. and if I had to also do my own short films, I would literally be spending like 14 hours or 12 hours in front of the computer, which I still do because I also do music in the computer, but at least it's a different thing, you know. Music may be a good topic for the next part we do in the future.

Starting point is 00:52:11 Oh yeah, absolutely. I guess I'm not as pro in music as I am in... Animishing, you know? But yeah, I think it's really important to keep creative, especially like if you have studied fine art, you're probably a creative person, you like to do stuff, It's very important, I think, to try to just do something creative, you know. I mean, even if you are working as something that doesn't have, like, a lot of creativity

Starting point is 00:52:30 or not necessarily animation, but if you're working as something random, just try to find time to do creative stuff. At least for me, it's like what really makes the difference, like what I'm really looking forward. That's this complete freedom of doing whatever you want. And yeah, it just feels great, I think. Yep, I can only agree with you. I think that's a great point to finish for today. So, Alvara, thank you so much for your time.

Starting point is 00:52:53 it was great to find out more remote animation and to have a chat with you. And as I said, we'll be happy to catch up in the future again. Thank you, Thomas, for inviting me. And if anyone has any further doubt, I am on LinkedIn. I think there you can find my email. Or you can just, like, drop me a message on, I don't really use Instagram, so probably I won't read them. But if you send me like an email or something. Yeah, and I will put it in a show notes, as I said. Okay. So thank you so much, Alvaro. And good like. in your career in the meantime. Thank you, Thomas, and good luck with the podcast.

Starting point is 00:53:27 I think it's like an amazing project. And also, I think it has to do with being creative on your free time. And see you around. Thank you for listening to Produce Bye. Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite podcast tab, leave a review or send us your feedback. For more information about the host, links from the episode and ways to connect with us, visit the show notes. If you know someone who would be an ideal guest for our podcast, please get in touch.

Starting point is 00:53:53 Thank you and see you soon. Thank you.

Produced By - #19 - Álvaro Wallner Carrió: Animating TV Series Not Only From Valencia, Spain

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