Produced By - #27 - Nathan Stobbs: VFX Artist Devoted to The World of Compositing

Starting point is 00:00:03 Nathan Stops is a London-based VFX artist specializing in compositing, currently working at VFX studio real-time. Since he first experimented with stop-motion animation and became fascinated by visual effects in movies, Nathan has been interested in this area. He enrolled in a VFX course at University in London, where he helped with a number of projects of film students that even won several awards. In his last year at school, he entered the field early and began developing his school. compositing abilities in the VFX industry. When the global pandemic struck, he joined a software development company and started working as a software tester.

Starting point is 00:00:43 After the industry recovered, he moved back to the compositing world and returned to what he enjoyed the most, working as a compositing artist. As he go into greater detail about Nathan's experience at university, he tells some interesting stories about what inspired him to concentrate on compositing and how he got his first VFX job. I sent to this episode to learn more about some commonly used VFX of Dwar, learn about the various VFX disciplines and get some helpful advice for aspiring artists and filmmakers. Enjoy. Hello Nathan, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show. Thank you about having me. Nathan, can you please try to introduce yourself?

Starting point is 00:01:27 So I'm Nathan Stubbs, been a compositor in London, been working in the VFX industry for I think four years now. two years in an engineer role at Foundry as a QA, different testing for them, and now I've been comping two years worked at NPC and currently my parents right now. So before we move on, can we try to explain some terms that you just mentioned for someone who doesn't know anything about the effects? What is it compositing? What does the compositor do? Compositor essentially the last person in the factory line of making and crafting the effect shot

Starting point is 00:02:06 the other person who is getting different elements, renders, stock footage, and doing their combining at the end and really, you know, bringing the realism into any VFX shot. And it's not just, you know, combined in, we do paint work as well. We might be doing some rotosam, sometimes, along the prep side. But yeah, it's definitely just that combination generating that final image, what compositing mainly relies on. So is it right at the end of the pipeline, or is it one of the first of the pipeline?

Starting point is 00:02:35 or is it one of the last ones? It's definitely right at the end. You know, Com is one of those things where it always happens at the end because you always have to, you know, do the final touches at the end. But comp can begin at different stages in the production so you can use Compt for testing things out with a slap camping. The Slap Compin is just when you do like a really rough pump or like a rough edit essentially just to find out about timing

Starting point is 00:02:58 and scale and proportions before you spend that for time. So Comp is always at the end. end, generally speaking, but it also happens at different points in production as well. Yeah. And I think you also mentioned a rotor. What does it mean? So roto, rotoscop, is essentially the task of going frame by frame and masking out elements, people, objects, props, whatever needs to be rotoed so that you can extract it from that footage and use it in or use it as an element for your final composite really. So is that something you also do?

Starting point is 00:03:38 I do a little bit. When I started in the industry, I did a lot of my first job back when I was still studying university. I was a rote and paint artist essentially for a couple of weeks at this company. So I did a little bit then, but I think as you get more into the compositing role, you very well, it comes up every now and then. A lot of composites are now that I've done it before.

Starting point is 00:04:00 on their career. But you do it less than less as you go through the industry really. Now I kind of spend most of my time assembling shots than doing roto and prep. Don't really do much roto and prep anymore these days. Roto sounds quite like a job where you need to be very patient. Yeah, it's one of those things where you know you put a podcast on or you put some TV on the background and you just tank it out because it takes. You know, sometimes it can be quick. Sometimes it can be, you know, really time consuming. This depends. If you've got hair, cloth,

Starting point is 00:04:35 clothes, like really complicated shapes, it's definitely going to take a while. But it's just something simple and non-deformin shapes can be really quick, but, you know, it depends. And I couldn't choose somehow

Starting point is 00:04:48 selected by default, or you need to make sure to do it manually so that it's more precise. It's one of these things. You'll be very precise. What I would recommend anyone who's going into rote scoping

Starting point is 00:04:59 or does rhodoscoping, or does rotoscoping is you know you have to watch the whole footage for and back over and over and over and over again until you start recognizing different shapes that you can use inside of the object props or person that you want to remove instead of just kind of going for it and like putting a shape down because the last thing you want is to do a rotoscoping is you're making these things called splines so you know when you kind of make a point you make three or four points and you have a shape. So you don't want to do the thing where you're making a shape,

Starting point is 00:05:34 throw it someone, and you've just put a bunch of splines and points across the whole person as that outline. You'll quickly realize that it's incredibly hard to control and just painful. It's just completely painful. But if you make these more simple objects within a complicated object,

Starting point is 00:05:52 so it's not easy to control. And simpler to roto as well, you won't be trying to go every frame and fix it. and you need to go into the frames where it moves, really. But it's a very managing process. But I'm hoping with AI, becoming more and more prevalent in these day and age, that AI can take away Roroscope and just get rid of it

Starting point is 00:06:11 because we know what to do it anymore. People are not really excited about doing this job. No, Roroscoping is one of those jobs that is another. And there's people out there that do enjoy it, but I'm not one of those people. I get really bored quickly. You know, I can row off. week and then I start losing my sanity really but everyone else is different some people can

Starting point is 00:06:33 roto for months and some people do just roto for years and that's no all they do is row is row but yeah not me i think not built for that yeah honestly i cannot blame me i think i wouldn't be able to do that either yeah exactly can you say on average how long you can manage like let's say in a day i don't know a few minutes of footage or seconds i know it depends on how difficult the scene is, but can you maybe give some examples? Yeah, so there's been programs that I worked on back when I was a junior composer where it was, you know, four people, and there's a simple shot, they were just walking down this field.

Starting point is 00:07:15 Essentially what we had to do was comping like a little airport, but like a little rundown, not like a popper, as the airport, more of like a garage airport, that makes sense, like a little kind of ran down one. And we had these four characters just walking down, and I think it was only, 100 to 160 frames long and that essentially took me a week because you know you've got bag straps that are wearing so you've got these things ringing about you know you got to get them walking so you got do the shapes for the legs and stuff motion blow go the lacquer but you know one of those things is it is not complicated it's simple but it is time consuming but really when I it wrote it as well

Starting point is 00:07:52 I try to see if there's areas that I can use to save time so sometimes what I use is Akea. What Kia is, it's a way to extract a mask from luminous values of your plate. So, for example, if you have your hand over the sky, and the sky is white, and your hand is pretty silhouated in the dark, you can use the Kia to get that hand instead of having to rotate the hand. So it was one of those things where you've got to be clever with it, kind of find areas that you can do to save time. But this is more for TV. I think if you're working on feature films, there'll be a lot more precise and more time for that.

Starting point is 00:08:34 So for me, it took me like a week to roto this, what was like 160 frames. Sorry, how many seconds is it then? 160 frames, that would be 8 to 12 seconds shot. So nothing crazy, but it still takes a while. Yeah, it's good to get an idea how time-consuming it is. patient you need to be. Yeah, but that's why I'm hoping for AI just take that job away. You know, people have been making good progress on that. So I'm really excited to see that kind of

Starting point is 00:09:06 improve and then takeover as like the industry standard hopefully one day. Yeah. So is VFX something that you've always been interested in? Yeah, very much. You know, I started looking into VFX when I was, I think 13, 14. I used to, well, not VFX, but just like, video and like post-production in general, like editing and that's and that stuff. I was a kid I used to make the Lego stock action movies, but you would literally just get Legos, take a photo, and you had to walk across the screen and stuff. Would it be like stop motion? Yeah, yeah, stop motion, you know, just doing that while I was a kid.

Starting point is 00:09:44 And then, you know, 15, I think I started like on After Effects and they started doing like my first VFX shots, like watching tutorials online. and then when I became, I think like 16, 17 I started learning Newt and that's when I started, oh, I want to go and get a degree in VFX. They're kind of how my interest for it when I started. It was like playing around the stuff and just kind of realized, I really enjoyed this, to be fair. And then realizing there's a math of career in it,

Starting point is 00:10:15 I was like, yeah, let's go for it. Were there any influential films when you were young and maybe you thought this VFX looks incredible? or any particular films that inspired you there's one film that I really like I think I wasn't going to say this as well was inception like when you see

Starting point is 00:10:34 the calf kind of blowing up and you see these like debris like float it in the air and then you had this theme of the city folded and a half because back then when I was really young as well when I was kind of getting into this I'd watch this stuff and I'd be like

Starting point is 00:10:49 I have no idea how you do that like no idea So I was kind of really fascinated by it But as you grow up as well And you work in the industry Like this whole magical illusion Of how the effects work

Starting point is 00:11:03 Kind of disappears Because now you can see all the cracks You know I've done this, he's model it, it's DG You know But yeah it was definitely inception Because I just thought You know

Starting point is 00:11:12 I was really stunned With the work they produced In that film Does it still remain One of your Favorite Or the biggest VFX in films or do you have any other favorite now?

Starting point is 00:11:25 Or maybe one that is in your mind for some particular reason? Yeah, I mean, now that I've gone older, I kind of prefer watching older films, like the early 2000s and the 90s. Because the way they film it and the DFX is way different, it's less the illusion-breaking for me, even though it's like the CG's so bad back in the 90s. But I would enjoy watching things like The Matrix as well.

Starting point is 00:11:46 Like, that's a really good film. It is an old film, it's a little bit dated, but it's one of those films that you watch. watch it and it's like these areas where they were starting to push the boundaries on the effects and the bullish dodge effect as well that was literally like what was it like 50 or 60 cameras put around in a circle yeah yeah they're one of those films that has got a great story and meaning behind it and then push the boundaries of the fx as well i agree considering the time when it was made was impressive i cannot imagine at the time watching that in a cinema

Starting point is 00:12:22 it would be super cool. Yeah, exactly. It's one of those things where back in the first watched Matrix, how did they do that? I have no idea until you watch the behind the scenes and they really show you how they do it,

Starting point is 00:12:34 you know? Yeah. And it's incredible. So coming back to your education, did you study VFX at university? Yeah, so I studied Middlesex University for three years. I don't know why I've paid that uni.

Starting point is 00:12:50 It was such a I remember because I went to a what was it the open days at university that you know when you go

Starting point is 00:12:57 browsing and you're looking for what you want to I remember when I went to the open day at Middlesex

Starting point is 00:13:02 and I just met there was like there was pretty much no one there for the course just the lettered and I remember

Starting point is 00:13:08 I sat down with him and I was like oh okay so you know what's the reason to study here

Starting point is 00:13:14 and you just gave him the tour of the uni and it was sort of massive mocap green room and then I saw the workstations

Starting point is 00:13:22 and it was all like, you know, he's never ran a year of this horse yet. Yeah, we were like the guinea pigs of Middlesex for all those VFX scores. But yeah, I'll go try it out. Yeah, it was really good. So how come was it that there was no VFX before? They wasn't as popular or do you know what was the reason?

Starting point is 00:13:40 VFX is one of those weird degrees or courses to study. I think when you finish with GCCC or you come out of college in school, and you want to go into this kind of industry or VFX, you know, you look into it and you quickly realize that you don't need a degree, like any degree doesn't really do anything for this industry. And let's just like, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:14:01 you want to go into like software engineering into VFX, then yeah, you will need a computer science degree, but for our artists, it doesn't really matter at all. So I think a lot of artists are self-taught than getting into the industry that way, and there's not many courses that just do VFX, There's some places that might do, like animation or some places. I know, I think it was daffature.

Starting point is 00:14:25 They do like, you know, VFX, games and also do like concept art and stuff like that. But yeah, there's not many universities in the UK that study VFX, really, and also have their tools and facilities that like actually train properly. Because there's one thing about having a course in the program, but it's more important that the students have access to tools that they need. to build and develop and to learn with an house experience. This, that's why I can have picked middle sections. They've got the green screen room, the mocap, massive equipment rental. Like, I used to rent out C-300, those Canon cinema cameras, just for random projects.

Starting point is 00:15:06 And this was like 4K footage, the 10-bit colour, just for a random project that's for about in the afternoon. So it was great to have that access to tools kind of thing. Yeah. And did you also get to try like a green room and the mocap, as you mentioned? Yeah, I didn't do much mocap stuff because I'm comp. My approach is always 2D. I probably think in a 2D way.

Starting point is 00:15:29 But I do a lot of 3D. But I was there for recording sessions in the mocap studio. But we did film quite a bit of footage on the green screen room. And also got to have just like more learned as well about how to be hands-on in the VFX production. as like in a technical assistant way where I'm setting up the green screen, lighting, getting the room ready and prepping it, and also in a kind of vision way as well where if someone's filming a project on a green screen, I can have a look, come in, step in and kind of correct issues

Starting point is 00:16:03 before they start happening. But I can see issues that are going to be like, okay, well, we can do this, we can do X, Y, Z, but that's going to be a problem later than the pipeline when I'm actually working on this and have the day. deliver. So it was good for learning stuff like that and also getting footage of practice with. And as you mentioned before, that not everyone needs to, or basically that you don't have to really study it at university because you can self-learn. What was the reason for you to actually study it and don't just learn it by yourself and apply for a position? I think the main thing for me

Starting point is 00:16:39 is that as high about I was 18 or 17. And if I told myself, I'm going to study to get into this industry by myself at home. Yeah, I could have done that, but I also could have just sat there and played video game for four years and not got anything done. For me, that I needed like assignments, like tasks and deadlines. And I also wanted to be able to network for people who are like me because VFX is a team sport industry.

Starting point is 00:17:05 Like, you can do amazing work by yourself, but it's not always about, you know, being the best by yourself. It's also about trying to be the best in one category and then have someone else is really good another category. So you both just focus in your own type of department. So it was really important for me to come to university and network with other students, working projects with people, instead of just kind of like working on projects by myself. And the equipment as well. The equipment was super important as well. And we had really

Starting point is 00:17:35 supportive lectures as well a little time. Yep. So then how did you actually find the course itself? Did you enjoy it? Yeah, it was hard for me, but the course was really like oriented around being like a 3D artist, but when I came to the university, I already knew that I was really into comp, just doing comp and type stuff and 2D stuff. So it was a bit hard at first because it was like very 3D focus, like a lot of here's Maya, here's modelling, and it's how you run done, it's how you do that really. And yeah, so that was fine, a little bit. But then in, you can second year, the lecture kind of basically said, hey, you guys can get extra credit for working on other people's projects. So the film course would come to us and go like, hey,

Starting point is 00:18:23 we're doing, you know, X thing with our production. Can we get like a VFX person in? And I was just kind of happy to take on those projects and supervise it, you know, help with recording, be there on the set and then do the VFX. So that was kind of when the fun part of the degree really kicked in, because doing all the. those projects. So was it in the second year or in the third year? It was in the second year. In the first year, yeah, first year I didn't really do that much. I think in first year as well, I wasn't allowed to use a new cutout point. I had only used after effects. But for some reason I was like, yeah, I was learning like a new software in first year. And it's kind of getting used to all,

Starting point is 00:19:02 you know, moving out and just being that adult, you know what I mean, just stuff like that. So can you say more about what the effects did you do for those film students? Yeah, so I've got quite a few things. I think the first thing we did, or the first project that helped out one, was a short film called Haircup. It's essentially a short film that's based in the idea of kind of like this guy, you know, needs his bag in a barbershop. There was money and a gun in there, essentially. And then the owner of the barbershop gets rid of it because he doesn't want to be bringing those

Starting point is 00:19:36 that tension around. You know, when the guy comes back later, he's upset that the bag's gone and, like, you know, heist the whole barbershop, essentially. So we had a bunch of paint-out work that we had to do for that. So that was just, you know, removing track and markers, doing Roso

Starting point is 00:19:52 and then make sure our edge details were fine when, you know, you have a tracker and then, you know, the person walks over, the braving and the thing. So that was kind of the first thing we did. It was a couple of shots. I'm like also adding in TV LEL because that's really common in the effect as well,

Starting point is 00:20:08 just added in screens. So started off by doing that short film. I think the next project that worked enough of that was a third year's like music video on our project. And for that we had this shot where you wanted to look like it was falling down or well and have these like Arabic lists around the name

Starting point is 00:20:29 and stuff like that. For that one, that was pretty funny actually because we did a, there's a lot of facilities at middle sex. So we would, We were planning to shooting the actor on a green screen and then make it look like it was falling like that. And then we were like, now let's have some fun of it. So we went to the engineering department below and they have like a LIDA scanner.

Starting point is 00:20:49 That we were able to like scan the actor. So we had a digital head of the actor and then we essentially made a digital double of the actor like a 3D version. And then we animated in 3D and then it just made the whole scene in CG. And then I had like came into the compositing pretty much. supervised that project and just looked after it. Then we also had some other 2D shots where we had actual footage of this gel in a gel.

Starting point is 00:21:18 And then we also had another footage of a guard who was on a green screen. And essentially what we did is we had two different camera movements because we had a camera movement from the green screen. And then we wanted to go through the green screen plate into the next shot. Because it was like a we had like a cover in CG door. well in the middle. So we had this one shot where we had to ditch two different camera movements together so we could build one coherent shot at the end. So that was a pretty hard project to work on. And after that we worked on in third year of university. We were doing just back to short films again.

Starting point is 00:21:56 So I worked on Last Breath of Winter I think it was called. You know we worked in this short film was essentially a it was like a knife, gore and then a little paint out of the last breath of winter. out and stuff like that. And I actually won an award when I left university for all Best Effects. We were at the BFI, Avid, graduation show, and luckily that project, you know, won best VFX. I won a lot. It worked.

Starting point is 00:22:20 We won Best Color, Best VFX, best in photography, I can't remember. There was a lot of awards. We won. Quite successful film. Yeah, it was really good. It was a lot of work. Was it only you assigned to that film, or was it more people from VFX working on that one particular film. So generally when I was working, I was a 2D person and like supervising and dealing

Starting point is 00:22:42 with the clients. But I had a friend James who was my 3D person. So James would always, you know, be there on to that with me. We would plan the projects together. And he would also help me dealing with the clients. Because there's, um, you know, when you're doing this kind of VFX, there's one thing about kind of like doing the VFX and there's an all another world of managing expectations, finding out what clients truly want, assigning work out and, you know, breaking down, actually going to

Starting point is 00:23:11 complete this bulk of work really in a time frame that's given to you as well. Yeah. Yeah, we had James who'd come to do the 3D stuff. Yeah, that sounds like a good experience. So, considering that you are still students and you worked

Starting point is 00:23:27 on these projects of Philips students in second and third year. Looking at those projects, Does it the VFX look like it's made by students or does it actually look like on a good level that you don't really notice that it's VFX if you know what I mean. Hey, the FX students. This is the thing with it. At the time, this is us learning VFX by working on these projects. They don't get you wrong, there's some shots that pass and you would not tell those the VFX shot.

Starting point is 00:23:55 Do we had some shots where we would just paint things? Any time it was like paint, fix and stuff like that, I don't think people could tell at all. When it comes to paint, when people could not tell it was painted or not. We were really good at getting that. We were trying to post the boundaries. We didn't have many of it, but we had a couple of like heavy VFX shots

Starting point is 00:24:13 where it was like the CG door, the regard or the guy falling down the well and being at Digi Double. We really know so much. And really, when you're studying, you're studying the technical ability. So we're learning how to be like render the cell. And then you're like,

Starting point is 00:24:31 how do we light it? how do we control it after we render with like AOVs? It's essentially like these render passes that a composer can then turn the brightness of a light up and down or make the skin more reflective or reduce it. At that point we're trying to learn a technical ability. Our creative eye, we were kind of building that. But at that time, obviously our creative eye wasn't built yet. So we're still learning how to use the tools.

Starting point is 00:25:01 but then really when I started working in the industry, that's where I learned how things should look. That's when my eye of things started to build really. Yeah, it sounds like a great experience and good to work with the film career. And what was the final year project in the third year? This is the thing. Because I was working on so many film projects, I didn't need spend much time my final range of projects. I did a simple seasonal change, because I had a shot that was doing equipment from the loan store. from middle sex and essentially just recorded the front of the university and i just converted it

Starting point is 00:25:38 from sunny till winter so it was just snow everywhere it was snowing and it was essentially just learning how to know manipulate footage like that in the sense of taking it from summer to winter and then also looking at different parts of the composites and software that i use called nuke and there's more understanding you know how to use a particle system and stuff like this and how can I cheat a little bit in nuke kind of thing. So yeah, it was a really simple project, but it was still like just more of learning how to use a nuke in different ways, and you said before that you used nuke already before you started at uni, right?

Starting point is 00:26:18 Yeah. Was it then coincidence that it was being used at uni as well, if it was being used? Kind of, so when I was, I think I was 16, It was 17. Essentially, what happened is I was like, cool, I want to do VFX. It's fun. It was also. I needed to get more information about it.

Starting point is 00:26:39 So I was doing a bunch of Googling. At this time, I used to only use the After Effects. At that point, I was using the After Effects a couple of years now. And basically, one of my friends, when I was like looking at Units and stuff said, hey, why do you use this email a bunch of companies asking to be like a runner? So I was like, oh, yeah, I could do that. Just to get my foot at the door until I understand the industry bit better. in reality

Starting point is 00:27:00 most VFX companies don't hire runners that are 16 or live far away from London because I wasn't living in London at the time I was living in Bedford so I didn't get any or hurt back from all those emails that I said but one studio

Starting point is 00:27:14 called Territorial Studio and the founder essentially messaged back saying hey look we don't want your work but why don't you come down and have a chat about you know just VFX and I can help you out and stuff

Starting point is 00:27:26 so at this young age there, got a day of school, went into London, and they met the founder of this company. Just a quick one. If you enjoy our podcast, please give us a review on your favorite podcast app, subscribe or share it with your friends. For more information, visit the show notes. Thank you, and back to the show. Yeah, so we went to central London to go to Territory Studios. I met the founder, but he was a super nice guy. Essentially, I was running the company at the time. And, you know, you just sat me down. We need to chat it for a couple of of hours and back then I was kind of explaining to like you know what's up of things I enjoy doing

Starting point is 00:28:05 in the effects because I was just going to start you know I was like a my at home as well but not nuke and essentially what he was telling me oh if you want to go into the effects and more of a compositing role you're telling me you know why don't you just go and start looking at nuke and you say yeah nook's a really good software and that kind of sparked the whole interest of nuke really So like literally the same day I got home, downloaded Nick and I started learning Nick at that age. That's kind of. Is Nuke a free software? Kind of.

Starting point is 00:28:37 Because I know there is one that is free, but it's probably Blender. Blender is completely free. The thing is in the FX is like you can get access to the software for free, but it's generally, the main thing is the licensing of the software. The software is, we call a non-commercial version. It means it's completely free, but it's non-commercial. So you can't do any paid work on it. You can just do personal work. That's completely fine.

Starting point is 00:29:03 Where Blender is open source. So, you know, it's free. You can do work on it and you can get paid to using it. And it's completely fine. Where Nukes on the other side of that where there's a non-commercial version. So you can use a new completely free. You can learn NIC that way. But if you want to do commercial work or if you want to render in 4K or something like that,

Starting point is 00:29:24 then you're going to have to pay for Nook. but it's not too expensive, but honestly, if you're learning nuke and you still rent everything on 1080p, I would just use Newton on commercial because it's free. And they're really good. But the story you mentioned before that the founder met with, it was really nice from him. Why do you think he did that for you since he didn't know you?

Starting point is 00:29:45 I don't know. I think it was more, because he said he's done that a couple of times, where he would just talk to people about it. I think really what it was, he was just trying to, like, encourage more people into the industry. I don't know if he would still do that now. I'm following the studio on LinkedIn and stuff.

Starting point is 00:30:00 I see it's growing a lot more compared where it was alive when the group is in it. But yeah, I think it was one of those things just trying to get people into VFX because it is one of those industries where it's a massive industry, has so much the market size value, also the market value on the VFX is pretty huge.

Starting point is 00:30:17 But it's getting to a point now in this industry as well, where we're just having a talent shortage as well. There's not enough artists right now compared to the work that, out there. So I think that was kind of part of it, just trying to get more people into the industry, really. So after you finished Tuni, how did you plan your way into the industry? I was really lucky, to be honest, when I was studying. So when I was finishing up on the last

Starting point is 00:30:44 pre for winter, that was a shot that was working on. So when I was finishing up on the last breath of winter, I was in the animation studio in the Minutesex. And a friend of James was there, And I remember I was so like It was on a shot I was like this is not working I hate this shot And we just wanted to send it off And be done with it

Starting point is 00:31:02 So we got James's mate We're barely known at the time To come over And to have a look at it And she came over I had a look at it And she was like I can't even tell what you've done

Starting point is 00:31:11 And I was like Oh okay great That means it's my work It's done So we were just like All right She goes to the pub So we ended up

Starting point is 00:31:18 Go to the pub And just through networking I found out She was working At a company and she just referred me for networking, you know, just said, hey, told her boss about me, said, hey, are you looking like a poster to her? And that's how I got my first gig. But I was still studying at university. And I got a message from the studio on a Saturday,

Starting point is 00:31:41 saying, hey, can you say, that's not really. And then the Sunday, the next day, I got told, hey, can you come in this Monday for two weeks? And yeah, I told my lectures, hey, I'm not going to be coming up to class for two weeks. But don't worry. I'll be fine. And then that's the kind of it has to started working at that point. Wow, that sounds like many of us can, you know, be jealous of. It sounds like a great start. Yeah, it was a really, because I know a lot of people in the FX have had those like, applying for like years or a long time just to go desperate in the door. So it was really lucky for me to just be recommended a job into my first job. And, you know,

Starting point is 00:32:21 I was a freelance at the time, but I can really the two weeks of work. and then they kept calling me back as a student. They kept saying, hey, come back, let's do some more. They gave me another week worth of work a month later. And then I remember this as well. So when I was about to move out of London, to move back to Bedford for a bit, on the night that I was moving out,

Starting point is 00:32:42 I got a message from him saying, hey, can you just work for like another month straight? And then I started, thought it was only going to be working for a month. and then we were just on like a rolling contract for I think it was just over a year one month of work just turned into a year with me being there working projects

Starting point is 00:33:03 coming in every day and just you know crack on with it really and was it working that you had to come there physically to the office or was it working after your time at uni like at home? So it was in the office so yeah I was in the office with other artists just kind of cracking on with it really that's why I had a time my lecture is hey

Starting point is 00:33:23 I'm not going to be in class for two weeks because I need to go into central London to work but yeah it was a great experience though you know it was a great small team it's an amazing work there I feel like at the start of my career definitely started realizing okay this is how the effects work

Starting point is 00:33:39 this is how people get a lot of stuff done in a small amount of time and it was good as well because you know back then I was a poor student so I used to work like this side job Well, you do like event security, like a steward essentially. And it was so good to be like, okay, I can work one week just like every now and then and I was earning a lot more money than working at other job.

Starting point is 00:34:03 So when I started working in the office, I just literally just quit my job straight away. I was like, no, I'm not doing this anymore. And that was a really great feeling. Yeah, exactly. It sounds amazing. You get paid well. It's experience in area that you want to work in. already working on your career.

Starting point is 00:34:21 And can you say what company was it? It was called the brewery. So it's a small company in Leicester Square. And they generally just do VFX and animation. So they do a bunch of projects. When I was there, I worked on Netflix shows. I worked on Amazon Prime shows. Worked on shows for the BBC.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And two films as well. And on the ITV as well. So we worked on a lot of projects together there for a really small period of time. Since I've been at MPC in real time, it's, you know, way different. I'll work on one project for months. Like, I'm on this one project for seven months right now. But back at the brewery, I'll be working on three or four projects at once. So, like, it was really nice I had that.

Starting point is 00:35:08 I'm working on a film now. And then at lunch, I'm going to be working on a TV show. And then before I log off for work, I've got to try an experiment. out for a different TV show. So does it mean that then you got quite a decent list of credits? Yeah, I went to my watch those commercials. There's some commercials that I've worked on that. I don't even know what brand it was for.

Starting point is 00:35:32 I just did it and was like, okay, cool, I don't have no idea what was that for now. Because I worked with some fashion brands. But yeah, I got a big list of credits essentially from all these TV shows that we worked on. But generally with TV, there's really a spot for one or two names. So generally the boss always got the credit spot, but we do work on a lot of shows, though. And how long you spent in that brewery company? I think it was about a year and a half, really. Started when I was a student at Middlesex, and then essentially I worked up until the COVID pandemic happened.

Starting point is 00:36:10 And essentially, you know, once filming stopped because of COVID, we had future projects that we were supposed to be working on disappear because the show just got cancelled and delayed and stuff and postponed. We kept working remotely up into the point where it was just like there's no more work to do and it was getting to the point where the studio as well themselves were trying to scale back and trying to find ways to just to save, save one cost. People were working three days a week and stuff like that. So that's kind of when I started working with them because we just ran out of work essentially.

Starting point is 00:36:45 So what did you do then? Did you try to find a different job or do something different during the COVID? Yeah, so when COVID happened, the VFX industry, it was kind of really, because I was a junior compositor at this point. So a junior compositor, it's not easy for a junior compositor to get work. And if you're mid, you're senior, it's a lot easier. But back then, when all the shoots kind of just finished up, there wasn't much VFX jobs going around because you, you know, nothing's been filmed. There's no shots to work on really. The whole industry can be dried out by most.

Starting point is 00:37:21 So essentially what I went to do is I joined Foundry. It was the people that make Nuke. And I was a stock by tester for Foundry. I'm the Neat team. So I did that. I think he did that for two years. It was a really different world of work that I was used to. I used to be doing creative stuff every day,

Starting point is 00:37:42 you know, compositing, doing grays. painting and roto and I went into software role where it was like you know tickets bugs and testing the coding python automated testing you know completely different world to what I was used to so how did you find such a job because I assumed that before you weren't really thinking about job like that but you did it because of the circumstances yeah exactly so so when I went when I went in the found you there wasn't much work around round for composites at that time. So that's why I took up the trumpet boundary

Starting point is 00:38:19 because I was like, all right, you know, I can do this. I had the interview. I really enjoy people that I tried to do that boundary. So essentially I went to Foundry, 2020. I think, yeah, 2020. Yeah, it was completely different, you know. It was weird because, you know, really, like the VFX industry and the whole world, when it comes to like software and stuff,

Starting point is 00:38:40 but you don't really like to upgrade a software to the latest and greatest all the time, we like to just be like a couple of years out we don't really care about on the latest tools we care about this having reliable tools to get the job done and we know okay we can use this version of Nick and we know it works fine

Starting point is 00:38:58 and our tools work fine with it so it was weird to go from that side of it to completely the latest and greatest trying and looking into the future of the effects I spent a lot of time working on a file format with Disney or Pixar called USD Universal Scene description and I was just a person, you know, testing the features for USD instead of the Nick essentially, giving feedback, trying to improve

Starting point is 00:39:26 it essentially. And this was very weird. This was like a feature that studios weren't really using yet. Some studios were or some studios weren't. And even other programs that we used had it even had any features yet for. it. So, you know, it was a big difference to be working on the future of the effects. We also worked on some prototypes as well. And it's a lot different. It's really cool because you are looking at the future of the effects. You're going, okay, what can we do with this? What do

Starting point is 00:39:57 people want? You interview in other studios. And you're kind of saying, imagine if you could just do X, Y, Z in there. Like, oh, yeah, it'll be cool. So yeah, it was a lot different than, you know, working as an artist. There's a really like a refreshing point in my career. try something different. So then when the situation after COVID got kind of normal again, did you then apply again for a position in VFX? Yeah, essentially, I worked at family people like two years and then it just kind of got to a point where for myself, there wasn't much career progression for myself there. You know, I sort of my manager, my manager's like, we can look at doing senior QA, allows kind of what is just quality assurance. I don't really want

Starting point is 00:40:40 I'll do this quality insurance stuff anymore. And at that time, the industry was open and back up again for business. So, I play for a bunch of jobs. I'm a bit worried that I wouldn't get any work as well because we still had a really basic show role from a couple of years ago. But luckily, I think MPC took a chance, I mean, and I went to MPC for a bit for, I think with like five, six months. It was my first job back in the compositing.

Starting point is 00:41:06 Going back to that role, I was a little bit nervous because I thought I forgot how to composite. it, no, did. You're free up? Yeah, a little bit. I started working my supervisor of my need.

Starting point is 00:41:16 It's like, hey, can you just do some green screen and do some key in? And I was like, yeah, sure. I started working on it and I was just like, I don't know how to do this anymore. Like, two years ago, I would do keys, easy.

Starting point is 00:41:28 Now I was like, no idea what I'm doing. So it took a little bit of time to get the ball rolling again. But then after like the first month, because that was the first month was the hardest really. But it was just like that it was fine.

Starting point is 00:41:39 and had the whole compositor mindset was back. And I was just getting back to like concentrating on building my creative eye. I'm looking for how to make a shot of me up good. What can I do? I'll try to grade this asset back, I'm not saying. Yep. So from MPC, you went to another company. I decided to leave at MPC to go to real time.

Starting point is 00:42:04 I prefer working for smaller companies, smaller studios. These are like a mid-sized studio. I would say they're tiny, but they're not large at the same time. I just kind of thought, yeah, let's try it out, let's do what it is. And I met the VFX supervisor there, and she pretty much persuaded me to join the company. And did you like want to specifically join in real time, or was it like one of the companies that you wanted to join? Yeah, so I put applications out to a bunch of companies. And I think a lot of the companies that I applied for, when I had interviews and I told to them,

Starting point is 00:42:38 it didn't seem like they wanted to put a risk in me really they were just like basic tasks basic compositor stuff and a lot of my pieces didn't have that much sight and work but then when i when i went to real time it was the type of work and the um the scope of projects were a lot more harder complicated instead of just simple repetitive tasks so you know i want to say the risk I've got to push myself a bit more further in my career. Plus, they've done, I'm not sure if you've seen any of the work that done previously, but before going into uni, I saw some of the work they've done on, like, they've had of a game called Smite.

Starting point is 00:43:19 No. They did this trailer for Smite, and it was so well done. Yeah, cool. Can you tell us about some projects that you worked on? You don't have to say any specifics, but maybe some projects that come to your might, maybe that were challenging, that you enjoyed, that you didn't enjoy. Well, real time, I'm an MPC or Ziamer, in general.

Starting point is 00:43:44 Carr in general. So when I was at MPC, I went into Disney films, so I worked on Focus, Focus 2, and I also worked on Disenchanted. Disencharted was one of the projects that I really enjoyed doing, because I just got given thoughts, what it was just like purple magic everywhere. And it was just literally like, really like crafted an image frame by frames.

Starting point is 00:44:10 I really had a lot of fun. Just, you know, pushing myself in the compositing world at MPC, like with disenfranchising and stuff like that. It was really fun. And since I've been at real time, two projects that had been published was dance monsters, like a mocap dance competition show. It was really fun. It was really challenging because there's just a pure scale of that project.

Starting point is 00:44:34 and I also worked at a nice little TV show called Nolly was like a nice kind of wholesome project it wasn't one of those shows where it was like really technical and hard but normally it was a good project in the sense of just felt like really basic compositing tasks but just trying to do the best job that you can with it and just being like you know just kind of cracking on and just going back to your roots

Starting point is 00:44:57 but those are the recent projects I've been working on this year back at the brewery and what's a bunch or TV shows like the players English game was on Netflix and he also worked in a supra car commercial as well Saudi Arabia was pretty cool and was there something challenging or hard for you yeah going back to distant channel it probably was really challenging just because the supervisors really trying to push me as far as I could go with that shot so one of the projects there was just a lot you know I never had to deal with FX passes

Starting point is 00:45:31 before and how to use them and how you can push them and we had a lot of like really senior artists who also like show me like how you can get these certain lens effects and yeah it was just changing because as well you know but yeah it was really good technically and creatively just trying to learn how to push myself in a lot of that like um not really realistic because it wasn't like really realistic effects but pushing myself in that stylized cartoony but also just like lighting effects type work well I really enjoyed I've got a lot of fun on and is there a dream project that you want to work on either specific film or TV series or that's a good question I don't know what I really enjoy work on or maybe specific filmmaker like a director

Starting point is 00:46:27 for the style I would have to say a Crystal and Olin film would be absolutely awesome but he uses VFX a lot different but I think it would be really cool to work on one of his project

Starting point is 00:46:40 I think it would be like you know just insane and that's like what I would want like just a crazy insane you're trying to push the the photo realism boundary really those would be a recent project yeah I can only agree

Starting point is 00:46:52 it will be dream to be part of such a project yeah I was wondering, can you share some advice from your career or from your experience for any, either students of film or VFX or people who want to enter the industry? Yeah, there's a lot of things I've learned growing up in this industry. I think the main thing I learned was like, how do you learn by yourself? Because the hardest thing about VFX is the hardest thing, but one thing you really need to get drilled into your head is practice makes perfect

Starting point is 00:47:27 now you can watch tutorials all day you can read up all day and that's good you should be reading up look at news latest tech any subject that you don't know so as a compositor like colour space is something really important in colour management you should read into it and look into these technical aspects but you're not going to learn by reading you've got to really do it and just keep on trying new things record footage, work on projects. And sometimes I just spend, you know, one thing I have a really bad habit of, but I don't do a lot of personal work anymore because I'm so, you know,

Starting point is 00:48:03 I do so much work, there's so much time at work, but I just don't have energy for it. But every now and then, I'll have one of these nights where I'll work from, I don't know, like, I'll start working on a project at, like, 8am, because I'm not going to out. I like to work the night, and I'll work on the shot, like, with my own programs and, like, stuff like that. until I don't know 6, 7am

Starting point is 00:48:27 just to get it rendered you know push yourself in that industry if you want to go to the compositing you don't want to study at the university or you do I think it's really important to have another discipline

Starting point is 00:48:39 under your belt as well as compositing depositing does require plates, renders, passes so either learn compositing and a little bit of digital map painting or you can learn

Starting point is 00:48:52 compositive with a little bit of 3D or lightening and rendering so you're able to generate your own scenes and stuff like that. That means you need to give yourself assets to play it with. And yeah, just keep going for it really. And I think as well, just look at reference

Starting point is 00:49:07 when you're building your shots. And when you get to the point where you're applying for jobs, I strongly recommend to people. Like, you want to see all the demo rules of everyone at your level when you're applying for your jobs. Like, you need to know who, you're competing with in the industry.

Starting point is 00:49:25 I'm not competing, but it's not really compete, but you understand where the bar is. We're getting a job. Every company you have a different bar. Some bars will be lower. Some bars will be way higher. But, you know, it's really good just to look at them and reals because you'll get ideas from them and it will help you get your first job for the door.

Starting point is 00:49:45 And networking is also very important as well. Just see this possible. Reach out to creatives or, you know, people in the industry that you like ask for help in the sense of hey you've got time to look at my shot you any feedback i've more than sure people be happy to help out like i get messages from people asking about you know how do i do xyz and nuke or you know just like technical questions and i'm more than happy to help out you know because i was there you know clueless and had no do how things works so you know there's never wrong asking and discovering

Starting point is 00:50:19 The most important thing though with the effects I just have fun with it That's the whole reason why we do it is fun And if it does get to a point where you're like This is not fun anymore Is it a grind Then don't even get to have a break It's not everything

Starting point is 00:50:32 The effects is supposed to be fun creative Yeah sometimes we've got to know the reason And plight and you're not having fun anymore You should definitely have a break And take some time away from it It's important thing really Yeah

Starting point is 00:50:45 I think it's a great advice I can really agree do you want to promote yourself or maybe where people can follow you? Yeah, so the main thing I have really is just LinkedIn. So you can find me on LinkedIn as Nathan Stubbs. Probably say, you know, a compositor at real time, something like that. Do you feel free to add me up, ask any questions if you need it. And yeah, that's it really.

Starting point is 00:51:08 Cool. I will add the links to the show notes and I think we can finish then. So thank you. It was great to meet you to speak with you. After a while, finally. Yeah, no. Finally happened. So, yeah, thank you very much.

Starting point is 00:51:24 And wish you good luck in your career. Thank you, Edm. Thank you so much for having me on here. A bit of pleasure and the great talk as well. Thank you. Likewise, and speak with you soon. Yeah, plenty of you, man. Take care.

Starting point is 00:51:36 Thank you for listening to Produce by. Subscribe to our podcast and your favorite podcast at, leave a review or send us your feedback. For more information about the host, links from the episode and ways to question. connect with us, visit the show notes. If you know someone who would be an ideal guest for our podcast, please get in touch. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - #27 - Nathan Stobbs: VFX Artist Devoted to The World of Compositing

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