#4 - Eleanor Follows: From Making Coffees as a Runner To Becoming a Senior VFX Artist
00:03Eleanor follows is a London-based senior VFX artist with more than a decade of experience in various disciplines,but primarily specializing in modernity.Starting as a runner and doing minor tasks such as making cafes working at receptionand other, one wouldn't expect, she built her way down, working on a range of big Hollywood films.Eleanor shares her experience of working in broadcasting companies,range of different VFX houses and momentarily pivot into architecture.to architecture.Being half American, we discussed VFX in the US, her relationship with the country,
00:39and potential plans for the future.Thanks to more than a decade of experience, Eleanor worked on some exciting projects with interestingassets and opens up why she loved working on them.Listen to this episode to find out some useful advice for not only VFX starters, what celebritiesshe met on set, and hear an important message about the women in the industry.Enjoy.Hello, Eleanor.Thank you for Jedinas and welcome to the show.
01:11Hi, Tomaz.Yeah, it's my pleasure.Let's start with your beginnings.Do you still remember the moment when you decided to become a VFX artist?Yeah, I started as a runner straight out of school.I didn't want to go to university, but I wanted to work in film in some capacity.Every one of my families in media, except for my brother.brother, he's a black sheep, he's a doctor. We just, you know, we don't talk about him. Yeah, I just started
01:41as a runner and I stayed behind after work because I was working on reception and after work I'dkind of stay behind and see what everyone was up to and I kind of got this job. And then I realized how muchI loved it and I really wanted to get in on it. And I did the three-month intensive 3D VFX course.And then right after that, I wrote just about everyone I knew who worked at the company where I was a runner.I was like, I just studied this. What can I do? And got me my first generalist job as a junior.And then from there, I just managed to network my way up.Yeah, so good. So before you didn't go to university to study film, RVFX?No. I just straight out of school was like, I know I don't want to be in college and rack up a bunch of debt on something.
02:32I can probably learn on the job, which I regret a bit because I missed out on a lot of the socialaspects of a university. But I'm ultimately glad I just got stuck in straight away.That is true, but at the same time, the fact that you don't have a crazy big depth, it's great as well.Yeah, I think at this point in my career, it doesn't matter. But if I was a junior and, you know,I'm America as well if I was going to start working in the States, not having a degree,people would just be like not even considering me.I think they're not really fast here, but now because I've got so much experience,the whole university thing is completely irrelevant.
03:13When did you move to London or to UK?I've always lived here.I grew up here.I've just family in the States.My mom's American.I've gone back and forth.And I have the passport.So, yeah, my husband and I are thinking about maybe making the move at some point to the state
03:30to justify the taxes I have to pay.I could never live for work there.So yeah, it's an option.Yeah, I agree.And if you move to US, would it be L.A. or some different place?Yeah, somewhere in California.I have family.I have a lot of family in France in California, in San Fran and L.A.
03:50That would make sense.I think as far as VFX goes, I know that there's the mill in New York, but it's all very commercialand can't actually remember where else there's VFX hubs.There's very commercial hubs in New York, I think Chicago, I think Lafayette, Louisiana.And then there's the previs in Atlanta and Georgia where the studios are.I think California would make the most sense.But yeah, we're just thinking about it.It's not a serious option.
04:21Do you consider yourself to be American or British or both?We're American.I didn't expect it, but it makes sense.I don't know. I've got the passports for both. I mean, I'm British. I grew up here. I live here. I think the fact that I say yogurt instead of yogurt, you know, that's one point on the American side. But I don't know. I think some of the words I say have a twang from the years of going back and forth and from my mom shocks and confuses people. But, you know.There makes us just curious.Fair enough.When you said you started as a runner without university, how did you even make it to?to become a runner? Because it's such a competitive industry. So it's a surprise. I mean, to be fair,
05:07as a runner, this was like what 2011, the pay is probably better now, but it was really, this was ateam making. In all honesty, because of my dad, he happened to know someone and they were lookingfor runners. And I can't attested the fact that my dad did help me get in because he knew someonewho was recruiting runners.So I'll give him that.But everything else from there,I did manage just scrape togetherby the skin of my teeth on my own.
05:36But yeah, he did help me with that one runner job.One day he was like,what do you know about visual effectswhen I was like newly graduated?Like, what am I supposed to do with my life?And I was like, not much.And he said, this place needs runners.They're like interns.
05:50I was like, oh my God, I'll do anything.I want a job.Yeah, that's how I got the running position.Yeah, I guess that was me usingmy contact. What were some more activities or duties that you had to do besides making tea or coffee?Well, I was a runner for a long time at a couple of different companies. I was a runner actuallyfor broadcast television. I was working in a lot of different companies, trying to figure outwhat area I was interested in before I invested my entire life into it. And then finally was like,
06:23you know what, I got to go study this. I love it so much. Broadcast running with.the one with the most duties, I think, working for companies that were, like, doing showsfor ITV and Channel 4. Running duties, I mean, can be very rough degrading. I mean, this was my experience,and this was, like, 10 years ago, I remember being shouted at by Jeremy Clarkson.Oh, really?It sort of like seems to be a huge theme for runners and interns that Jeremy Clarkson shouts at you.His dims up that he'd ordered from Westfields was late.I mean, that's like a rite of passage to be shouted at by him.
07:04Was it top gear filming?Oh, God, I'm sure it was.I was just trying to like, you know, I was on 11K, trying to make tea.Running duties.Another thing that stands out for me was being in the same broadcast company.producer came up to me, says,hey, can you put this in my editor's sandwich as aprank? And I was like,
07:25what is it? He was like,it's ghost peppers, it's the hottestpepper in the world, but I don't want to touch itin case I get it on my hands.So I was like, oh, so you're going to get aminimum wage, a runner to doit? And I was like, okay, sure. And Iended up covered in this ghost
07:40pepper because it got a tiny bit on my fingerand I'd spent the rest of the day touching myface and being like, no ideawhat it was. I got home. I wascrying because I was covered in welts. I called my brother, who's a doctor. I was like, I haveghost pepper on me. He was like, get some rubbing alcohol and then quit your job. Running duties wasinteresting. That is the equivalent to being in college to university. And did you see theeditor eating the sandwich in the end? I didn't see it. I didn't even get the satisfaction of
08:13seeing what came in that whole deal. I wouldn't explain that, but it must have been fun.I think my experience as a runner will stick with me forever.I mean, you know, I worked at a lot of different companies.I did a lot of trial periods, which is basically unpaid labor one week to see if, quote unquote, you wanted it enough.But really, they were just getting free work.Very shady, but that's kind of how it was.But I guess it's still better than working in a pub because most of the people or at least students from London,And as far as I know that started or still keep working in a pub,
08:50but as a runner, you still have a related experience,which is useful for CV and some background.Oh, yeah, don't get me wrong.I was extremely lucky that I managed to get these jobs.I felt like at the time I was being a bit of a collector of injustices as a runner.I was like, I can't believe this person, maybe you do this.And everyone else is like, yeah, what's wrong with you?That's how it is.
09:11And it took me a while from my privilege to kind of be like,you know what, just suck it up, you're in a good position. And it is great. I worked at places wherethey showed me what they were doing. They let me play around on their machines. I was introducedto people through, you know, the other runners through people in the company. I made my contacts.I think being a runner, you have to just throw as much positive energy into it as possibleand make as many contacts as you can. That's where I got to where I am.was just making friends, really.Brings in cups of tea without being asked.
09:49Demeating as you feel it is, you just got to do it,and you've put a smile on your face.I mean, you know, I was the only girl on the team,so they put me on reception and kind of had to play that part,but, you know, it worked in the end.I made a lot of contacts because I was there.The importance of networking.What was then the step from the runner
10:10or some kind of moment when you stepped up to the end?FX or next row?So after I finished Escape Studios, I was working as a temp.Just temp?Like temporary workers for companies, you go to temp agents.I just wanted to be able to pay my rent while I was working on my show reel, working on my CB.So I was just working anywhere I could, really.I did some pretty miserable jobs just trying to pay rent until someone looked at my show
10:41reel and was like, yeah, I'll give this junior a chance.Was it as a modeler or what was it back then?I was a generalist.I was in build department or not?This was a really small boutique company.The smaller the companies, the more you're doing in the sense that you're not just kind of pocketed in one area.It's a smaller company.They need generalists instead of like they need a modeler or they need a texture artist.
11:07So I'll need you to do a little bit of everything.Which is the beauty in the smaller companies.you may not be in this big name thing,but you're getting to work on more.You're getting real experience.But it's still cool that although it was a small company,you worked on big Hollywood production.Yeah, it was amazing.
11:27I was so excited.That was really fun.I'll have to pull up my CV because I've moved around so much.It'll help me if I have my CV up in front of me, actually.So do you remember the number of things?credits you got throughout your career at the beginning i think i took note of every single thing iupdated my i mdb i would go to the cinema i don't know i actually this is why i just pulled up myCV because i don't know are there so many no i'm not like in a braggy way like oh i've worked
12:02in 70 felt a lot of the films you know and tv shows have just been like one day's workhelping out with something or other you know do you still get credit for that although it's likejust one day?Sometimes.It depends on the company.There's a lot of shows I've worked on that I haven't been credited on.Some have been like, oh, such a gut pump going in the movies and going with like my friends or my family and sitting at the end and waiting and you see your company and you see all these names flash past and you're like, seriously.You don't know in advance if you're going to be there?
12:34I don't know.It depends on the company.Some places will be like, hey, we're just letting you guys know you'll be credited or,one place asked me if I preferred Ellie or Eleanor for the credit and I was like,ooh, Eleanor please, because it sounded more professional than Ellie.Yeah, I was wondering, because I saw Ellie on Zoom, but I know we're only on Eleanor, sowhich one do you prefer?Oh, I don't mind.
12:59I've never minded.Since the last of us came out, I'm like, Ellie.Well, you worked on it.Oh, no, yeah.No, no, I'm just been watching it.And I'm like, I should say I kind of dropped.out of the effects for a bit as well.Why was that?
13:14I think for a while,2019, I got a little disillusionedwith the whole thing. Andyeah, I was just kind of like, oh, I don't know.Like if I'm, you know, I'm progressing.And because I live in South Londonand I live in Battersea,I saw that the architectural company
13:30was recruiting for aarchitectural visualizationartist. And I was like,yeah, I'll do that. I worked for a yearin architecture. And thenI was like, oh my god, this is so not for me and went running back to BFX and haven't looked back.Can you say a bit more about it? Maybe to compare it what is like to work for architecture and VFX?While I was using 3DES Max, I prefer Maya. I feel like a lot of artists prefer Maya.
14:03It's kind of industry standard, isn't it?Yes, I think Houdini and Maya are the kind of, yeah, it's the.sort of industry standard. I feel like 3DS Max is like the younger brother no one talks about,you know, got behavioral issues. It was more, it's more rendering. I was making visualizationrenders of some Saudi Arabian airport. It was not, it was not fun. They were like, put less womenin this one. I was like, okay. You're like, we don't. Yeah. It was that kind of work. I was like,all right, I'm out of here.It's hardly comparable because it is just another world.
14:41The only thing that's the same, or almost the same for me, is the software.But I may be wrong.You know, that was just my experience in that place.Yeah.Just a quick one.If you enjoy our podcast, please give us a review on your favorite podcast app,subscribe or share it with your friends.For more information, visit the show notes.
15:01Thank you, and back to the show.And when you left for that architecture company,weren't you afraid that then it might be hard to find a job again in VFX?Or isn't it so difficult to find a job for artists?I had enough on my show reel at that point that I felt like,I'll give this a try,but if I want to get back in, I have enough experiencethat hopefully I can get back in somewhere.
15:27And, you know, I was,which was one of the best companies I've worked at.everyone was amazing. And I was like, oh, I'm going to be here for so long. This is great. I want to be herepermanently. I hope they like me. And then COVID hit. I guess you adapted after some time,but did you enjoy more work in office? I think my evolution of COVID changed. I loved working fromhome at once. It was so cool not having to wear makeup and be working in my pajamas. You know,that was so much fun. And then, I mean, now where I'm at, I'm still working from home, I'm done.to go back into the office. The company I met currently, they're not quite set up, but I'm like,
16:07I need to be around people. I can't be around. I'm still living at home. We're, you know,trying to save to see if we can buy a place, but I'm like, this is not healthy to be around myfamily. But at the beginning, it was great. So I was single and I was like, yeah, this is fun. I'm,I can just hang out at home. To save some money, don't have to pay on transport. Yeah, I missed my littlebachelor's flat though.You know, at the time, that was sad to give that up.But it was weirdly cozy at the beginning, working at MPC,working on some really cool shows and really loving working from home.
16:43To now I'm like, oh my God, I need to be around other humans.Yeah, yeah, I understand.Can you say, you don't have to say where, but what do you do now?What kind of work?Is that modeling is the one that you enjoy the most?I love modeling. I love hard surface modeling. I am not a sculptor. I can't use Z brush. That is my, I just, I'm lucky that I can pick up software quite quickly. The brush is just my downfall. That is for sculpting and organic modeling. I can't get on with the interface. I think with enough coffee and a week off work, I could maybe get a handle of the basics, but I just have committed myself to hard surface modeling. That'swhat I love to do.Texturing.
17:29I love look dev.bits of animation and lighting and stuff.It's just organic work.I don't mind really.My favorite thing to do is some dilapidated old churchor like an old building or something like that.Or a spaceship.Yeah, I mean, that sounds exciting.
17:47You mentioned some terms, VFX related.Can you try to explain to someone who's never heard it?What is modeling, texture in L-Def environment?Yeah, so modeling is, for me, it's the kicking off point. So you are given, I mean, I like to use Harry Potter as an example. If you think about Hogwarts, you're looking at story, you're looking at concept art, you're looking at storyboards, you're given references. These are the first people that built Hogwarts in CG. They were looking at old castles online. And then they basically built it in 3D. You create thewalls and the roof and the tiles and the steps and you're just modeling all of these littlebits and pieces and building up this giant castle. So that's, you know, and you're left withthis beautiful grey scale, untextured model. And then you've got a UV it, which is basicallylike skinning a tiger and laying it out flat. That's, you take a 3D model and then you flatten
18:50it so that the textures can flow nicely onto it. And then texturing is just painting it.castle you're painting on the stone, you're painting the bricks, you're painting the moss and thelichen and dirt. And then for look dev, you make the adjustments and see how it looks when yourender it. So, you know, render? Oh, render. Let's just, you know, that's like cooking it.That's putting it in the oven. Yeah, it's a good. I don't know how else is great.No, you said it. Well, yeah. Yeah, yeah.It was environment and layout.In my experience, environment means different things and different companies.
19:31Sometimes environment can be just organic work.Another company's environment is laying out all the asset within a camera.You have your camera, you load it in, and then you piece together all of the parts that make up scene.If you have a shot with a green screen or a blue screen, then you roto it out and pop in your 3D behind it or in front of it or in front of it.or alongside it some environment and layout work is scattering, which is creating forests andunderwater corals. You're just basically grabbing all of these hundreds of tiny or large assetand painting a mask. And then the mask basically shows where you want your objects to bescattered. And it calculates it for you and creates these random forests or random bushes or
20:21random blades of grass. It's a way of creating natural environments quickly and naturally.Yeah, good explanations. You worked on quite a few projects. So what's the dream project that youwant to work on? Maybe if you are fan of some series or saga or something that is coming out.Yeah, so when I started, I had my BFX bucket list.Seriously, I had, I need to work on at least one Marvel film. I need to work on at least oneHarry Potter film. I need to work on at leastone. All of the fandomsthat I was obsessed with, because I'm
20:57nerd, I would likeand then I managedto cross off a few of the things.I mean, every VFX artist right nowwishes they were on the last of us.I feel the same.Yeah, I don't know. I wantedto be a part of Star Wars so
21:13badly. I think that was thefirst film I fell in love with.Franchise I fell in love withwas the original Star Wars.and work at ILM.Working on it, that kind of show would be incredible.A dream TV series that I'd want to be working on?I don't know.
21:31I think all of my favorite shows have come and gone.I loved Better Cool Soul.I don't think there was much VFX in that there.I'm trying to say, hang on.Let me have a look.I recommended a list of TV shows to a friend.They should check out, so I should probably check.What about Game of Thrones aren't you fun?
21:51I loved Game of Thrones.The House of the Dragon, is that what you mean?The new one?Yeah, I was going to say, it would be exciting to work on those dragons.Yeah, well, I mean, I wouldn't be doing the Dragons.If I were working on it, I'd be doing like a shack or a castle or a beer or something.But yeah, that would be awesome.There's this whole Rings of Power versus House of the Dragon debate online of what's better.
22:17So what do you think?I think they're both just fineI don't have a strong opinionI loved Game of Thronesand I love the Lord of the Ringsso much I have all three extendededition you knowI beg for the day when I get the flu
22:36and I can stay home and just loveI enjoy both I've watched bothand I enjoy itI'm just not completely obsessedyeah yeah I understandI wonder when you go tocinema to watch a film, not the one that you were working on, but some other film,can you actually enjoy the film without thinking how the VFX was done?
22:59Oh, I enjoy it more.Aren't you like, you know, focusing too much on how was it done and kind of analyzing it?Not really. I watched Dune, which I loved. I loved, loved Dune. I hadn't read the books or anything,so I went in not knowing the plot. And I, you know, I enjoyed it. And then I kind of was like,wow, that's incredible VFX in the back of my mind and then thought that would have been fun to work on.But other than that, I'm kind of just like, oh, it's a great movie.You do notice it, but it doesn't distract you.It just kind of you have a whole different level of appreciation and you're like, wow, that's an incredible model.
23:35This is beautiful.That was so well done.And it just adds a different dimension.And then I end up nerding out and annoying my husband.But look at the textures.Look how beautiful.I agree. Dune was beautiful, especially in a cinema on a big screen. It was amazing film. Excited for the next one.Yeah, yeah, it was awesome. It was so, so good.
23:57Oh my God, you know what? When you said a dream show you want to work on or a dream project, I know 100% what it is.So I am obsessed with Red Dead Red Dead redemption, the game. If they managed to pull that off and make that into a TV show,That would be my dream to work on because that is truly, I think, the best game ever made.Being able to work on that would be so cool.I'm not a gamer, so I don't know much about it.But I read that it's very well rated.Yeah.You know, the visuals in it are amazing.
24:33It's a really cool.It's a period in history that's really cool.It's like Grand Theft Honor, but the Wild West basically.So are you a gamer?Um, yeah.I have an old PlayStation 4.It sounds like it's going to take off every time I turn.It's more like I enjoy, like, games at a time.
24:50I'm not always playing.It's just if I'd have something on the go, I get very invested in it.Yeah, yeah.And what about some favorite director?Is there some favorite director and you would want to work on his film?I don't know.I think all my favorite directors are dead.I don't know.
25:12I love horror maybe as well.kind of cool to work on a horror film, but I don't know how much visual effects are in horror.Yeah, it will be blood, maybe, I don't know, or some corpses.Unfortunately, I don't know how to do blood and BFX.But yeah, I don't know, favorite director, it's kind of anyone.It's anyone that's working on something cool.Yeah, sure, that makes sense.What are your plans for the future?
25:38Have you got like a role that you want to achieve, or some maybe specific competition?that you want to work for?Well, I don't know.We'll see.Right now I'm a senior for the first time.This is my first, I mean, like officially a senior.And I'm in talks about a lead position, which is exciting.D.L.
26:00One day, I'll just have the freedom to have creative control and be able to help other artists.And it's hard to say what your dream role is because I feel like it changes everywhereyour work.Yeah.I need this person and then you're like, and then you leave and you go somewhere else.And they're like, this place really specializes in this kind of thing.So you're like, oh, well, you know, I'd love that.And I just want to have that excited, passionate feeling again.
26:27So is the progression for the artist that you start as a junior, then senior, and then lead?In my experience, it's, yeah, junior, mid, senior.You have to become a lead.You can just be a senior artist.If you want to kind of go into the direction of wanting to be a supervisor, go down the path of the lead.And then I guess, yeah, a supervisor.Is that something that would interest you to become a supervisor?Oh, 100%.
26:56I think I need to be a little more grizzled and a little more.I think I need to get some real lead experience under my belt.But I'd love to be a supervisor.How do progress, like to say to senior, is it?based on work experience or being kind of proactive?I think it's a mix.It's how many shows you've worked on,your knowledge, I guess, of the pipeline as a whole.
27:23It's your performance.Yeah, it's a combination of things.You know when you're a senior.The company knows when you're a senior.When you're not as challenged, then you're like,not that work can be challenging.It's when you're not terrified on a day-to-day basis,then you know you're a senior.
27:42Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.As we spoke, we got quite experience from working in different companies.Can you share some advice for someone who would want to become BFX artist?My advice for someone just starting out or wanting to start out is just to make as manycontacts as you can, ask as many questions as you can, and write down everything.I have gone through so many notebooks.You need to write down everything so that you never repeat a question.I mean, if you're starting as a junior, someone tells you how to do something.
28:19You need to write it down and highlight it and underline it and learn it.People notice when you aren't repeating yourself.I know that sounds silly.You've got to really make sure you're taking information in that you're using your voice,but you're not being obnoxious, especially if you're a woman, you've got to use your voice.and don't apologize all the time.Like I said, yeah, write everything down.Make as many contexts as you can,
28:45learn as much as you can,and in your spare time,as hard as it is when you just want to chill,you've got to work on your show reel.Can you think of some interview-related advice?You can ask questions.Make sure you have questions.Make sure you look up the company you're interviewing,
29:05see what kind of work they've done.Do your homework.Yeah, I mean, do your homework.You don't have to study who producer is and where they went to school or what their blood type is.You just got to make sure you know what kind of work they've done, how you can contribute, how you want to learn from them.Make sure you have at least three questions when they ask you at the end of the interview, do you have any questions for us?Never say no.Even if the questions are about something like, I don't know, what's the food like around, you know, this part of the sort of.
29:38So you've got to show you're entrusted.But at the same time, you're interviewing them too.You need to make sure that this is a place that's worth it for you.I have once had an interview where the guy was so challenging and he was like,you are going to be crushed in this job.You are going to be worked.And I'm like, what is this full metal jacket?Like this is much.
30:01And I was like, I don't think was this for me.Was it the person who was interviewing you?Yeah, yeah.He was like on the.team, you're going to be worked late and you're going to be worked hard and it's not going to beeasy. And I'm like, I've done my time, you know, a grunt. I don't want to be treated likethis. I want to be in a nice environment where I'm supported and where I can support. You've got tomake sure the company is right for you. So know that even if the place is making you feel like
30:30you're lucky that they're giving you the time of day, you've got to make sure they know yourtime is valuable and that you're there to help them ultimately.Yeah, that makes sense.I always am so nervous in interviews even now.No, it's completely natural, I would say.Yeah.But it's useful to hear some tips from people who went through some interview,especially in the industry.
30:56Do you share your work or your show somewhere onlineif someone maybe wanted to follow you or something?Yeah, I'm Eleanor Follow.on Vimeo. I used to have an art station, but I think I've shut that down or I just use Vimeo to share myshow reel now, just because it's easier. What about some of your hobbies? We heard that you are,as you said, a bit of a nerd. Do you have some other interesting hobbies or what do you like to doin your free time? I like knitting and sewing. I love making a good scarf. I don't know. I lovehang out with my dog.
31:34What's the breed of your dog?He's a chihuahua.I don't know why I expected to look bigger.No, I was dog sitting basically and the owners didn't want him anymore and I was like, I'll take him.Oh, what's his name?Ollie.Ollie has just about as many credits as I do because he's come to almost every company I've worked at.He's a little supervisor himself.
31:59He's basically come into every job I've worked out.But I'm sure it's a good tactic because I can imagine.I imagine whenever you bring a dog, everyone likes you, you know, thanks to the dog as well.Yeah, I guess so.I mean, he's a horrible chihuahua with terrible breath, so I don't know.It was like right around the office for morale.It's like bad temporal little creature.But yeah, no, he's cool.
32:23I don't know, hobby-wise.I never know what to say with that question.No, you said quite a few things.I guess there isn't too much free time to do so many things.Yeah, I guess the usual kind of thing.I like editing as well, editing videos, and...I'm trying to learn photography, but I am terrible at it.There's this really cool wildlife drawing thing in London that I've been going to.
32:51Wildlife drawing?It's called Wildlife London, or something like you just go and do life drawing, but with animals,they'll take you to a zoo or a sanctuary, and you can just draw, like, baby owl,or...Oh, interesting.Yeah, that's been fun.Yeah, so this is quite a creative stuff you do.Before we finish, is there anything you would like to add
33:15or something maybe I forgot to ask or you would like to come back to?I do think there needs to be more female artists.So I want to go to my old high school.It was at girls' school and maybe give a talk thereabout trying to get more women interested in the end.industry because it is male-driven, which does have an effect, you know.So I think...Why do you think is that?
33:40Is it that women are not interested in this or because they don't get as many opportunities?I don't know.I think a lot of women may not see it as a possibility if you're creative.A lot of people don't think creativity and computers go hand in hand so much maybe or they just, you know,that people don't know about visual effects, you know?Yeah.It's out there.It's an option and I think women are really creative and really organized.
34:10And this is something that I think the industry would benefit from having more women in it.So I guess that's something I'd want to add.Yeah.I mean, that's a great point.So thank you.If there isn't anything to add, we just thank you very much for your time.And wish you good luck in your career.Thank you.
34:31Thank you for listening to Produce Bye.Subscribe to our podcast in your favorite podcast app, leave a review or send us your feedback.For more information about the host, links from the episode and ways to connect with us, visit the show notes.If you know someone who would be an ideal guest for our podcast, please get in touch.Thank you and see you soon.
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