Beyond the Frame: Where VFX Passion Fuels an Eternal Creative Fire | #41: Marco Gifuni
00:01Hello and welcome to Produced Buy.Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show,please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon.You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards.Thank you and back to the episode.Marco, as you are working in that company and you mentioned that D-neck was one of the clients,is that how you then got into the D-neck?Not exactly.
00:28I mean, that was a few years back.And I joined Deneg three years ago.After Pacific Rim, I did a lot more work as commercial.And I was really lucky to work with companies like the mill and MPC again.I went back to MPC a couple of times as a freelancer.And I've been at the meal a lot as a freelancer as well,doing all sorts of commercials.and commercial work that was really fun and engaging and again i learned a lot of stuff
01:11at the meal i mean as i said a freelancing is possibly the best way to learn fastand to learn a variety of things on the job and this is exactly what companies like the mealhave done for me they have such a variety of projects and needs thatYou basically need to learn fast and apply what you learned on the project.So after that I've been at Mill, NBC.Blind, working on Mission Impossible.Blind is another company there specialises in UI work or film.They've done all sorts. They're really, really good.
01:59their director is an amazing person.So yeah, I've been very fortunate to really never stop.This is the other thing with me.I mean, for example, right now I'm forcing myself to stop for a few weeksbecause if it was for me, I would work every day.And this is what I've done for years, literally bouncing aroundfrom projects to projects.You don't even realize that the year,
02:28the year has ended. It's just work too much.Is that because you enjoy that much or are you workaholic?It's a bit of both. I'm certainly a workaholic. I remember a friend of mine told me I'm the onlyperson who's hobby is his actual job. Like when I when I finish doing my my job,I basically use the same programs and the same tools topursue my personal work, which is my hobby, I suppose.I mean, I suppose this is a condition of pretty much everyone in our industry aswhen you work on your personal stuff.
03:13But yeah, I'm definitely a workaholic, and it's the fact that you always have this thing ofif I refuse this gig, what happens if I don't find another one in the back of your head?which againI totally haveand yeah that's probably the reason why I do thatI'm less so right nowbecause again I'm trying to chill a bitfor years I've been
03:39doing this as a freelancerI'm sure I'll fall on my oldhabits pretty soonnow that I'm back intofreelance wordbut yeahand where there are some otherexciting projects you can talk about after you know before well well as I said I was
04:02fortunate to join D-Neg for three years we just farted ways and went back tofreelancing but my time there was absolutely amazing and I was very veryfortunate to work on projects like the matrix what else ShazzoSam, Aquaman, the Adam Projects, Cicidale, a lot of really, really cool stuff.And the Variety and caliber of the things that we managed to do is absolutely astonishing.It's just that when you see them on screen of them.See, this is the thing that happens to me every time.When I see on screen, stuff that we've been working on for weeks and months,
04:50I almost can't believe that's the same thing thatit's just that can't be itthat doesn't look exactly exactly the same rightit is exactly the same it's exactly the same thingit's just it looks so nice andand believable that you're like nothat that must be a real thingit's not the thing that I've created to actually
05:12yeah especially if you compare it toto the beginning when there wasalmost nothing and now in a film when itlooks real and you it's just you know like in a real life such a big progress yes absolutelyprojects like the matrix and you know such a massive assets you literally can'tpicture in your head when you start and the very end of it it's just this thing is likehow did we do this i mean who came up with this idea as just this collectiveof minds and it's just an incredible feeling. It really makes you to, I mean, they're useful,
05:59if anything. It's amazing. Yeah, it's an amazing feeling. Do you want to expand on,not necessarily from Deneck, but some assets that you worked on and were perhapsthe most enjoyable, the most rememberable, or challenging or for some reason worth mentioning?Yeah, I've got a few.I suppose one of the most challenging was the con pods for GepC Avenger, which is one of the robots in Pacific Rim Uprising.Basically, the con pods are these consoles there are in the head of the robot where the humans sit and interact.and they are indeed interactive.So basically, we just add, as a starting point,
06:55we literally just had the actors doing this.And we had to, on each movement,we had to literally have a bottom in front of itand make it interact as the finger was tappingin the exact same point.So everything is dictated by the movements of the act.actors and obviously what the director wanted and the visual language.And that was very challenging because again, this thing, I had to do concept art for it,
07:27I had to animate it, I had to model it, I had to shade it, I had to render it, I had to do basically everything but come.And that was very, very challenging because the consoles are not just a static piece of artThey move and they change and parts move to create different shapes.And every time they tap something, that thing disappears and it gives life to something else.It offers another tab.So it was very, very complex a task to do.And again, the team was amazing.I was working on one robot, but there were people that were doing UI, people that were doing concepts,
08:11people that were doing other robots.because I think in total it's likefour to five robotsin Pacific Rim uprisingit was very very challengingbut it wasI mean nonetheless it was super funand again
08:27to see something rarely happensto see something on screen80% of the filmand it's exactlywhat you didso that's a senseof you knowachievement
08:42and fact thatyou really managed to do something big,probably colleagues, of course.But yeah, other projects,again, I was super lucky to do so many,and some of them, I don't really remember.Sometimes I happen to watch films.Oh, yeah, I've worked on that.
09:03Or commercials.That really happens.It really does.But, yeah, no, even, I suppose,that the other one that is on part to Pacific Rim is The Matrix.I mean, I really, really enjoyed that.And I still can't believe that I'm the only person in my class at universityof all those people that were going crazy for the Matrix
09:34and managed to work on the Matrix.Yeah, yeah.And again, if I was a betting man, I would have never bet on myself.to work on the matrix.Yeah, that's so cool.I mean, I suppose these days the word iconic is thrown about quite a lot for things that are not really iconic.And the Matrix really is a defining moment for digital art and design and all things cinema.Yeah.
10:04Just a little side note to confirm what you're saying is that I did a...podcast episode of you i think was maybe episode 31 it was with maish and he he's also he worked invfx and he he is a big fan of matrix as well and as a proof is that he actually named his son neo hesaid that on a podcast i was so surprised yeah and he also said it was amazing such an influentialfilm of his lifethat he enjoyed itthat it inspired him to pursuecare of the FX and when he said
10:47that he named his son I was like wowI didn't expect it soconfirmation how influentialfilm it isabsolutely I didn't know thatI know range amazing guyI didn't know he named his sonNeo yeah absolutely
11:02I mean a Matrixit was such ayou know a definingmoment for a digitaland obviously 80% of it is 3D.So I suppose never before 3Dand the 3D world was so invasive in a filmto the point that you literally just have actors
11:27and a green screen and the rest is just 3D.I really enjoyed working on itAnd I knew joining the NAG that was, I mean, they were working on the Matrix.Obviously, I wasn't even hoping to join the Matrix thing, but that was my very first project.So I really loved it.And I was very fortunate to basically work on assets as well as characters and texture and all sorts.stuff I was really really lucky to be a true generalist on their on their projects and workwith some of the best designers I've ever worked with some of them are friends of mine
12:19to this day it's just it was incredible it was really really great and as we saidbefore I mean the stuff we did it really shows we really gives a film that addedvalue. It's justmind blowing frombeginning to end.The VFX is justincredible.And yeah.
12:43And I got the creditand they got my name wrong.Sowhat did theyget wrong in your name?I think they spelledthey spelt a guffinisomething like that.
12:56Oh my God. It just took the libertyto change my last name.But yeah, no, it'sapart from that, that's probably one of the projectsare the most proud of, becauseI mean, if anything, because I was partof one of the biggest teamsfor a project,
13:14every studio in the worldwas involved in that, possibly every studioevery studio there isfor mentioning that stuff.But yeah, it was such aon Honaand obviouslyif you need some kind of
13:31sample approval for the stuff you do that was it.It was kind of a big boys club kind of thing.I really loved it.I really loved it.And after so much experience you've got,are you still projects that challenge you,that you still feel like, oh, this,I need to learn something new, how to do this?
13:59Yes, absolutely.I was talking to a colleague of mine, ex-collarine of mine the other day.We were working together at the mill.And one of the most challenging projects I've ever read in my career is a Pringles commercial.Because I was asked to do a thing that is so unusual and so hard to do that I had to literally sit down and hack the program in a way that was possible to come up with.something like this is just i mean you get you get asked to do all sorts of stuff every day andthat's i suppose that's the beautiful thing of working with digital programs is the fact that theygive you so many tools and it's up to you to combine them in order to achieve a result that
14:52possibly i mean it's never seen before can you tell more details about what what wasthat you had to figure out or what was that challenging?Oh, yeah.Basically, it was a relatively elementary, you know, commercial.It was just a spinning bowl, right?So a spinning ball of rice that turns into crisps, Pringles, obviously.But on the ball, they wanted to have a zoetrope effects.Now, for the people that don't know what Zyotrope is,
15:31I don't know if you've ever seen those spinning vasesthat have these images that almost look like animations,and that's because there's a frame-by-frame design on the bars.Now, the Zootrope usually repeats the same animation,so you have a guy jumping, a guy running,but it's the same animated, like the same 10 frames,because obviously the diameter of the vase only gives you,gives you so many frames to work with.
16:01Now, the client wanted a zoidrope effect,but then displayed a whole animation of a minute.I think it was, no, it wasn't a minute.It was 40 seconds or something like that.So we're talking hundreds of frames.How would you do that?Because obviously, the diameter of the bolt is still the same.It still gives you, what, four frames, max.
16:23So I had to come up with an idea.and I worked with this super talented illustrator called Granbury and a bunch of other people from the mill.And yeah, basically we came up with this idea and we were using different textures.We split the bowl in full.I don't want to go into technicality, but basically every turn of this bowl, this ball wasusing four different textures.So we split the bowl in four fractions,four quarters,
17:04and in each quarter we had a different frame.So at every spin,the bowl was touching a primitive sphere,and every touch, every turn of the ball,this was kicking in every other four frames.So yeah, four, eight, da-da-da-da.And that allowed us todisplay a full animation.
17:27But that was a wholethought process that tookdays andafter a whilethis colleague of mine had a babyso you had toleave for a whileso I was in charge
17:41of the illustrativeside of things as well so I had to doillustrations as well because these bowls weredecorated with illustrationand the illustrations were movingas well so it was a wholething I had to come up with somethingthere was basically displaying this animation and we had to do it in the shortest amount of time.
18:02It had to be super fast and there was a whole plethora of things like there was rice in the bowl.The rice had to turn into Pringles Crispses.It was a whole thing.And again, it's a commercial that no one ever saw.It's just on social media.Okay, I hope it's on your website after listening.It's not.It's not.
18:27Oh, you wanted to watch.I mean, I know, I'll show you.I'll show you.It's fine.But in terms of technical aspects, that really was challenging.Because he wasn't your usual.I want you to do a model of a dragon.Model the dragon.
18:44Now, there was basically everything you can think of, because I was doing comp, I was doing shots.I was doing looked up.I was doing modeling.I was doing texturing.Everything you can think of.all into one and you had to take care of multiple aspects of a project.I had to take care of multiple aspects of a project all by myself.I was the lead 3D artists on their projects.
19:11Again, that's not to say that all my other colleagues in the same were absolutely incredible.Mackey, Grant, all amazing.But yeah, it was just...Yeah, it was just, D'Amil is this amazing place that really gives you a total freedom on your projects.Obviously, they do give you your concepts.They do give you a brief, but they're really happy to make it do your thing,and they really appreciate the artistic side of things.It's really nice.
19:47So, yeah, I know it's quite strange to say my most complex projects in my career is Pringle.commercials.But yeah, it happens sometimes.No, it's understandable.Based on your explanation, it was hard toto follow up and try to imagine what was it like.Yeah, yeah, absolutely.And again, I couldn't have done it
20:12if I possibly didn't have the familiarity that I havewith Cinema 4D.Yeah, it's like being a home based.And as we discussed some of the cool projects that you worked on,do you have like a dream project that you want to work on?Or maybe not, you can say both film and maybe specific asset?I would say, yes.I mean, there's definitely something I'd love to do.
20:53Possibly the same things I do now.working on the film and being involved in the concept side of things a bit more.Because I mean, although I was really lucky in companies like Denegg and Terry, sorry,to work on both aspects, so concepts and, you know, the actual creation side of things,I'd rather be involved at least for once on the concepts.stages a bit more, which is really cool.And it's something that really gives you to artistic freedom.Sometimes your work gets really, really appreciated and you get to do the stuff and
21:41come up with the idea and the concept.That being said, the other thing I'd love to do is to create a short movie, somethingthat can really call mine.The only problem with that is that, I mean, we're not an island.You can't do it by yourself.It's going to take ages and you have to dedicate your entire attention to it.I've always tried to find, you know, friends and colleagues that would love to pursue something like this.But they inevitably drop out at some point.
22:24because we got, you know, lives, we've got freelance things we need to attend to.So if there's someone listening, make sure to reach out.Yeah.But only serious offers.Exactly.Tell them, mate.No, but jokes aside, it will be amazing to create something.I was looking at this project called Puxley.
22:54created by Ben Mara and it's incredible.It's an incredible animation he managed to gather, incredible artists,and it shows the final product is insane, is incredible.And I wouldn't mind creating something quite niche as well.I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it for, you know, a massive release.It's just something I can really call mine.And have a hand on all sorts of aspects of it.that's something that I'll really, I mean, soon or later, knowing me, soon or later, I'll do something like this.
23:31Have you got already some ideas in your mind?Yes, not fully formed, but I definitely had some ideas, and I do have some ideas right now.I have these folders.I have this folder, actually, single one, call ideas.I just chuck stuff in it.And again, they're not fully formed.It's just, it takes time.It's something, I mean, a lot of people tried, a lot of people failed.
24:04It takes time.And it's something that is all encompassing.You need to focus on that for months and months,which is something that possibly I'll have the possibilities to do soonish.But I'm not sure.I mean, it's very hard.If in the middle of it someone would approach me with a freelance gig or something I find it, I find really interesting to say no.But we'll see.
24:36Yeah.We'll be excited for that.And now you said that publicly, so you will have to do that one day.Yeah, exactly.Now it's in the ether.So I have to do it.And as you said, Marco, before, about the concept work.It sounds interesting to me.
24:55Can you say more about it?Is it that you are included in a project basically before it startsand you are helping to develop it?Yes.So usually the concept stages are the very first stage of a project,being illustration concept art or just 3D concepts, 2D concepts,sketches however you want to define it this is exactly what every project starts with so if youhave a character or if you have an asset um the very first thing you start to do is just uh
25:38just sketch some ideas based on what the client or the director once um for example in ghostingthe shell rupert sanders just for for months had this amazing team of designersthat they basically just came up with ideas they had to come up with a whole worlda whole world of stuff and and it was incredible it was really really good to really show ityeah that's something where you can really use your creativityAbsolutely, yeah. Especially when something like, again, talking about ghosting the show, something so big as creating a city, creating a world, creating a visual language, it really gives you a full spectrum of, you know, creative possibilities you can come up with. And it's incredible. I mean, it's super rare because as a freelancer, you tend to come in when stuff has to be done.like materially builtbut I would
26:49love toI've done it in the pastI do itat timesbut I would love tobe more involvedin the concert stagesand of course
27:01the personal projectslike a short moviewould definitelygive you the possibilityto do something like thisbecause it'sreally yoursif you want to boost
27:14your online presentscheck out our digitalmarketing agentscalled Trailblazed. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 tips on how tosucceed in your creative career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribeto our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links arein the show notes. Thanks. We got a question I'm curious about and I like to ask people, especiallyfrom VFX. So when you go to cinema or you watch the film, how do you actually enjoy the film,
27:52considering your experience in VFX? Are you able to enjoy it or are you thinking about howeffects are done? Are you looking at the mistakes? Yeah, my girlfriend hates watching films with me.I'm constantly pointing out. Look at that, look at that. That's all 3D. That's not real.and this is what I didand this is what I didyeah exactlythis is exactly what I doit's exactly what I do
28:18I supposewhen you work onon the actual productsand you've seen it for monthsand you've seen it fromits infancywhere basically there was just an axowith a blue screen
28:34it's much harder for usto get into theyou knowthe final product because that'swhat you've always seen.You've just seen it in its infancy.And we tend to spotthe negatives
28:54much easier than anyone else.Like there are films I've worked onthat I don't discloseat least overtly I've worked onbecause the final result is not good.And of coursethis can beI mean, it's not good for me
29:12because I alwayshave aI mean, I always compare stuffwith stuff that it's properly done.Those arethose are the films where you can use youralter ego MarcoGuffini in credits that it's not good.
29:27I didn't think about that.I should do that.That's not me.That's the other guy.Yeah, definitely.Definitely, definitely.Absolutely.Yeah, it's not child of
29:40for us and this is whywhen a film it islike properly doneis really like frombeginning to end it's reallyuniform and you cansee that there's a level of professionalismthat really exceeds the normal
29:57quotais all the more amazing to seebecause it's justthe product is just amazingI was looking I was watchingtheSpider-Man into the Spider-Vertsthat
30:15that cartoon is a jewelI've never seen anything like itlike every shotis a masterpieceand it's justincredibleabsolutely I completely agreewe'll see how it goes on
30:29Academy AwardsI saw nominationsslightlyand obviouslyI'm not sure it's gotnominations yeahI think it was nominated and there are obviously big competition so we'll see how it goes.Absolutely, but yeah, it definitely deserves whatever is going to win.
30:50It's just, and more.It's just so amazing and amazingly done.Like, literally you can't fault it.It's just an incredible achievement for the studio.And of course, I mean, sometimes you have.have these amazing projects that you can't you can't forget it's just that they're just in yourmind constantly and matrix is one of them is so good yeah yeah it's sometimes shame if the effectsare so well done and so beautiful and then maybe the storyline is a bit worse and then you know
31:31the critics are quite negative about the film which is not because of the effect but maybe becauseof the story or something elseand it kind of...Yeah, I always find...Absolutely.I always findsuper weirdwhen the
31:50beauty of a film is dictated byRotten Tomatoes or I am a dream.It's just that the critics are not the end or be all.It's just that there's so much...Forget the fact that there's so much workbehind every film, of course.But I understand that sometimes the storyline is a bit lacking and it's just, it's not the most original thing, but there are other aspects.For example, I was watching everything everywhere all at once, which everyone was raving about.
32:26And I understand that there are some aspects that are really good.But, I mean, the storyline is not, at least for me, it's not the most original.but there are the things that reallyreally raise the film to another levelthe acting.It's just incredible.And I think especially in this particular filmit's, if I'm not mistaken, that the budget was quite low
32:52and if you look at the final product,it's quite impressive what they've managed.Absolutely, yeah, that's the thing.Sometimes you turn out,massiveHollywood budgetsagain I'm not surethis is the case for this film
33:09it's like withI think the film creatorthat went out recentlyfrom what I heard that the budgetif you consider what it looks likethe budget was verylow and it looks sobig budget
33:25yeah I haven't seen itbut I've seena lot of concept artsand it looks amazingand they managed to gathersome of the bestconcert artists on the marketand it really shows because the ideas
33:42arefor what I can seefrom the trailer really innovativeand yeahyeahyeahMarco we need to discussyour personal work
33:56so the projectthat you work in your free timebecauseI need totell the listeners to check it out because I've seen it and some either assets or charactersyou worked on are beautiful so make sure to check out Marcos website, Instagram and portfolio.Oh, thank you so much means a lot. So tell us more about it.My personal work, I mean, it's always hard to describe it, isn't it? It's just I would say
34:30The majority of the things I do are character-based.So, as I said, I like creating monsters, creatures, characters.I'm a creature designer, which is something that fortunately I get to do in a much broader scale of film and movies and commercials.And I do that as well in my free time, so I'm a bit obsessed with it.I like to come up with my own concepts and translate them into creatures and characters and assets,which is something that I can't seem to be able to stop.I just do it almost automatically when I finish one, I start another one.Addiction.
35:14Yeah, pretty much.That's the best way of being productive, being obsessed.Can you maybe tell us the process?because I wonder how you come up with a certain idea,why this specific one, why does it look this way or this way?Absolutely, yeah.It's quite random most of the time.It's something that catches my eye
35:41or a concept that I've always had in mind or a wordor something that is a mesh-mash of things I've seen.most of the times since I'm a bit big artistry buff is obviously something that I use as inspirationthat I've seen in museums or books there are things that I've always loved since I was12 my favorite artists my favorite art periods so that there are loadsof, you know, Easter eggs and things like this.I use that.Basically, I'm connected to that.
36:33So, I mean, in general, yeah, characters and assets are the things I love doing the most,and dioramas.So whole scenes with backgrounds and stuff.And I love the facts that to be able to, I mean,I love the facts that I'm able to, sometimes.communicate whole stories via the diorama I build or at least I try to.So I mean I suppose character and creatures are the things that best you know conveyinformation at least for me and I really like to again build up a character, build up
37:17the story and try to communicate that and of course there is a level ofyou know, you need to come up with your own conclusions and make up your own stories when you see the image.But it's really nice to create little dioramas and, you know, have a story transparent from it.So yeah, it's super hard to describe my work.But yeah, I hope I made it justice.And for example, how long does it take to create?character or the you know from the initial idea when you say oh this is a complete one if itvery much depends yeah yeah it very much depends I suppose I mean sometimes it take a couple months
38:06sometimes it takes a couple weeks it depends how complex and the complexity of the wholediorama and the whole scene is in general I kind of give myselfyou know, a period of time, because I had it in the past, I just add details forever and before you, you wake up.It's like a year it's past.And you don't want that.But, yeah, I tend to go for quality or quantity.I know a lot of people that basically produce a lot of stuff, produce, produce, produce every week.And I can't do that, unfortunately.
38:48because otherwise, I mean, it happens oftentimes that you're not happy with the stuff that you publishedand you're like, okay, if I only could go back and spend a bit more time on that particular thing.There possibly no one is going to see, but you are obviously going to notice it.So I tend to spend a good amount of time, but never more than a couple of months.what are someassets or dioramas you are proud ofthat we can see on your website or InstagramI suppose there's one that's called
39:27the toy maker which is thisgoblin kind of creaturethat I've imagined it's got a toy shopand they're all handmade so it was really funbecause I got to create my own toysand build up this, you know, story from scratch, which again, I hope it transpires from the image.But I really like to make my characters humanoids, but not necessarily humans, if that makes sense.And it's nice to inject a bit of originality in the facial features and the anatomy.
40:10so it doesn't have to correspond necessarily to something that we see every day.And that's the beauty, I suppose, of doing monsters and characters in general.As much as I think that it takes skill to reproduce a portrait in 3D,I suppose it's definitely, it requires definitely less skilland just come up with your own thing from scratch.And something that you can't find out.anywhere, it's just an image in your head, which is super hard.But it's a nice exercise.
40:49I really love it.And I really respect people that do that.It's just such a nice thing.It's like approaching something that you've never seen before when you see aproduct done by someone else that is completely different, completely brand new.And I can imagine it must be hard to actuallystop working on it because if you are a perfectionist you are still oh i can do this and this andthis and end up doing it forever absolutely yeah you can go on forever i think details and stuff
41:27and that's definitely uh definitely detrimental to you know how much time you spend on a projecti know people that spend years of the same character literally years and again beforeyou realize you wasted timebecause at some point you has to bequalified as a waste of time becauseyou can't I mean even in filmyou can't tweak stuff forevereverything can be tweaked
41:52and better forevereverything can be improvedeverything it's justyou have to have thatclosure kind of mindsetat some point and say alright this isfine let's release in the wildand as much
42:08as I understand that we aredefinitely attached to our child in terms of, you know,asset and is your little baby and you wanted to be as perfect as it gets.But it's just you're always going to get a bit of, you know,things that could be improved sorts of thing in your products.So, yeah.And when working on such asset,do you work on it just as a piece?
42:40pure enjoyment or do you work on it also to showcase your skills in a portfolio or it'skind of balance or it depends? I suppose it's a bit of both. There's definitely the acknowledgementthat that's your work and your work is most likely going to help you land a job at some pointbecause obviously it's very important to have your personal work on short on your portfolio.but it's something that I mean is I suppose I just do itor my peace of mindit's just that it's something I've always donepersonal work even when I was a uni
43:18I used to stay up all nightdoing stufffor most of the daysbecause the stuff that I was doing at uniwasn't I mean it wasn't the stuff I wanted to doand it just wasn't enough for meand to be honest it kind of served me rightbecause the things that are
43:38Most of the things that I do now are an overshoot of the things that I learned doing by myself when I was at uni.No one taught me out to use 3D programs per se because I wasn't doing that necessarily at uni.I was doing more general kind of digital art stuff.And I still have a big portion of my portfolio that is just personal work.It's just me, me, me from start to finish.And it's really important to have your personal work on show.Because, I mean, it's nice to have big names in your portfolio.But let's face it, I mean, there's only so much you can control of that product.
44:24First of all, most likely the idea it's not yours.It's a client.Then there's a director, there's a producer, and there's a supervisor.So there are so many steps in between you and the final release.that obviouslyfor better or worsealter youryour asset
44:44your characterso it's always nice to show yourpersonal workand what's the softwareyou work with NoCis it still Cinema 4D or something else as wella fewI work with a few different software
45:01well Cinema 4DMaya and Z-Brushare definitely the three main onesthat I work with substance paint, a substance designer, Arnold Redshift, After Effects,Photoshop of course, Kishot, a bit of Clarice, what else?What is there you don't work with? It will be easier.Well, there are a few things, of course, but when you are so lucky, like,Like, I am to be a generalist, you tend to, you know, try and acquire as many skills and knowledge as possible.
45:48So the more, the merrier when you're a generalist, obviously, when you can fix stuff, that's a skill that is always welcome by clients.And this is what I've always tried to do.It's just let's learn this.Let's see, because this is definitely going to come up with.in a project and yeah it did I managed to learn a few a few programs that reallyserved me well in various projects so do you still have this open learning mindset toyou know yeah yeah absolutely I mean I wish I could learn more I've got this thingthat every time I'm not working I feel like I'm
46:35wasting my time, lunch and dinner included.But yeah, it's something that I really, really like.And there are things I want to learn, which I'm kind of refraining myself to not to.I mean, there's some, as stupid as it sounds, there's only so much you can keep in your tools that.tools that it's just at some point something has to go and obviously there areprograms that I haven't used in a while that I'm less proficient at and I used to bereally good at it's just I mean when you don't use them in a while obviously tend to getbut in general I want to try and keep a balance between the creative side of things
47:30and skill and technical skill because you can get lost in you knowtechnicalities and technical aspects of programs and stuff and I really want to keep the accent on look I can come up with solid concepts and execute them so I think it is just really good to be a bit about really yeah and I guess also to have this mindset to keep up with the latest updates latest technology and still brush your skills to be able to stand out in acompetition from the crowd.Absolutely.It definitely is.Definitely is.What are some assetsor your personal project that you are
48:14currently working on?At the moment, I was trying to come up witha concept for a monsterthere is a mixtureof a Babirusa. Do you know what Babi Russe is?It's a warthog, basically.It's like a, you know,Pumba from the Lion King?
48:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.Okay.Bobby Rusa is slightly similar, but he's got, like, a big.So is it, like, a specific character, or is that the species, what it's called?No, no, this is an animal. It is real.It's just, I want to come up with a concept that involves a mixture of that animal and other things.I was thinking tentacles and things like this.It's just, I mean, my brain is a bit, it's a bit strange animal.
49:06We've got people screaming, animals running and have to funnel them into something.So are you in initial stages of developing this?Yes, very much so. Again, this could well be one of those projects that I never release or because I've got so many of them like every other designer.and you got that whip folderit's just junk stuffthat you're not happy withyou're not going to releaseWhat would be the steps now
49:43Would you start drawing it on a paper firstI usually do a 3D sketchYou can start from a sphereYou can start from a human poseA human mannequinI oftentimes start from a spherebecause you don't knowif you start from a human
50:02you kind tend toconstrain yourselfto the humanforyou don't knowif you want a full bodyin the renderyou don't know if you want
50:13a full characterso I meanagain at the momentit's a bityou knowrough in terms ofidea I just knowthat I want some
50:24specificsmeaning I'd like to usethis animalas one of theone of the conceptsbut yeahkind ofand this is probably something
50:35that should stop doingoftentimes I just jump into itand then the conceptevolves as I gowhich takes a bit more timeinstead ofI mean when you have like a solid conceptas a starting point you could just
50:52follow thatand that makes things much moreyou knowmuch fasteryeahYeah, at the moment I'm just working on that.I just finished working for a client project, which kept me busy for a few months.So again, this is my holiday kind of period.
51:18I'm just forcing myself not to work.They're not going to last long.Yeah, we'll see.Yeah, again, we will be excited to see the results, hopefully, in a few months.for some time.Thank you.So, yeah.No, I was just going to say from your rich career and rich experience,
51:43share some wisdom with us, some advice, recommendations,and tips from your career.That's a hard one.That's a good question, but it's a hard one.One thing that I would always say,to students, what I'm lucky enough to, you know, talk to them.It's just don't listen to, you know, people you have around that want to kind of dictatewhat your next step is going to be.
52:20Because almost nobody knows what you want to do better than you.I'm culpable of the fact that growing up, I used to listen.and to everyone but myself.And when you get to 40 and you haven't achieved things that you wanted to achieve whenyou were at 16, now the 40 is all yours.But obviously you just did it with the best of intentions because you listen to your parents,you listen to your friends.And, I mean, let's face it, who's going to tell you, I want to do creatures for leaving?
52:55Who's going to tell you, yeah, of course, go, go and do monsters for living?that's going to be amazing.You're going to put the bills all day.No one's going to tell you that.But, I mean, it's super important to believe in your potentialand believe in the possibility of doing things,which is something that I've always done.And the first part of my life, I was basically doubtful
53:22about everything that came out of my mouth.So if I wanted to do something,I'm not sure I should do this,because that person said that that's not a good path.But, I mean, who says that?These people are just as unaware as you are.I was surrounded by, especially, again,in the first part of my life,
53:43I was surrounded by people there,didn't have the faintest idea of what digital design was.But everyone wanted to tell me what to do.If you want to go to London, this is insane.Why are you going to London for?Just stay here.There are studios here.And now, for us.
53:5814 years down the line, the situation is what it is in Italy and I get to work with the best in the market.Again, I don't consider myself one of the best designers in London.Far from it, I'm super critical about my stuff.But I'm just extremely lucky to work shoulders to shoulder with people that are absolutely incredible.I've been allowed to work on absolutely incredible projects.and this is just because I wanted it.This is just because one day I woke up and said,I need to leave.
54:35Which is exactly what you've done.It's exactly what a lot of other people have done.And he takes such an amount of courage,which is not often acknowledged,to just leave everything you know.Literally, I left everything I knew.So a lot of other people did.You did the same.
54:55and the amount of courage and guts that takes to do something like this is justnothing short of amazing really and yeah so the thing from my modest you know point of viewI'd love to say to you know a student or someone that wants to embark in this you knowBFX journey or just digital design call it however you want.It's just trust you or your gut feeling because that's exactly,I mean, that's the only thing you've got as a starting point,you've got feeling, you haven't got skills because obviously you haven't started it yet.And it's, I mean, it's much more rewarding to have something you really love at the end,
55:47as opposed to something that you just chose because you weren't sure of it.It's just, yeah, again, for all my faults, this is something that I wanted since I was, I don't know, 13, 14, I managed to get it.And again, for better or worse, I can really say, I do what I wanted to do.And I'm super proud of that.Yeah, it's definitely great advice and situation I can relate to that.been to something similar.And I often like to ask myself if, you know,if there is such a, you need to make such a big decision or you're unsure,
56:31if you would regret not doing the thing.And then if you think about, for example, 10 years in the future,would I regret that back then I didn't do that thing?If yes, then probably you should do that,although it's a step out of your comfort zone and something uncertain.Absolutely.I mean, as a rule of thumb,everything takes time, right?
56:54You want to play drums.You want to be as good as Mike Portnoy.That takes time.It takes years.And the starting point for everything is zero.You have nothing.You have skills.You haven't got skills.
57:09Obviously, you have to build from somewhere.And it's just the only thing you've got, initially it's the vision.It's the only thing you've got.And again, I had absolutely not.I came here with, as I said, before, £1,200.It was given to me.And it's just, I wasn't even a fully formed designer.But it's nice to have something to build from scratch.
57:42There's a sense of pride in that.And yeah.Yeah.And what I like to think of if there's a sense ofif the goal or your vision seems too big.If you think about it,if you do just a little bit every day,how it adds up over time.
58:01Because obviously nothing is,I know it sounds cliche,but now it's appropriate since Marco was in Rome,that Rome wasn't built in one day.I wasn't preparing this.I promise, it just keeps my mind.But, you know, the consistent,that's good.
58:18the consistency and just do a bit every day and see where in a week, in month, in year, where you are and it gives you some confidence and motivation.Absolutely. Absolutely. I really think, and this is probably a leap, but this is one of my points of contention against generative AI art.It's the fact that he skips the process. It takes from A to B in.a second. It doesn't reach you, it doesn't give you anything but the final product that it's noteven yours. And this is what one of my main point of contention is the fact that doing anythingjiu-jitsu playing an instrument painting, you come out of it, you come out of it that you basicallyhave learned something, you have learned a skill, or at least you have a faint idea of what thatskill is. And this is what I suppose is the best thing of, you know, building yourself and building
59:22your career and learning a skill. It's the fact that you can really say, look, I started out.I had no idea what I was doing and look what I've got now. And again, it doesn't have to besomething that makes you a millionaire or makes you famous. It's just amazing to be able to dosome stuff.To be able to call yourself professional or proficient in something.I think it's something that is incredibly valuable.And nothing can replace the confidence behind it.If you know that you literally spend, I don't know, thousands of hours developing something,
01:00:04sometimes even tears or, you know, headache and whatever.And nothing can replace it and nothing can take it away from you.Absolutely. I totally agree. And this is possibly something that in an era, like the one we leave it in, it's been lost a bit because we want everything to be given to us like super fast. Like we just want to jump to the meat of it. And it's just, it's not always like that. It's nice to take time and study things and learn.the craft and compare yourself to other people that achieved like really good results and say,oh, that's nice.I want to be like that.But let me see if I can learn exactly the same skills for better and try to, you know, raise the bar.I think that's definitely something that has been lost a bit and I value tremendously.
01:01:11I love thatI absolutely agreeand speaking ofvisions, goals and next stepswhere do you see yourself in a few yearsor where do you want to see yourselfin a few years?That's the usual question
01:01:28they ask you in interviewswhy you see yourself and find youthis isthis this is an inspirationsorryno this isinspiration for usand to motivate yourself to leap up to your words that you say publicly.
01:01:47Absolutely, I was being facetious.Where do I see myself?I suppose doing the same things to higher degrees, higher levels.I love being able to say I work with that person, I worked on that project.and I really think thatevery time I work with someonethat is particularly skilled in his craftor craft
01:02:18I can take awaya lot of knowledge and stuffbeing as much as a spawner as possibleso I reallyI really cherish thatI really loveworkingwith people that are master what they do.
01:02:39So I suppose, yeah, what do I see myself?I suppose doing the same things that I'm doing now,but to higher and higher levels.And just build a portfolio I can possibly call my own.Yeah.Yeah, it's a show and yeah.It's inspiring to hear this because after our discussion,it sounds like you, I mean, it doesn't sound like it.
01:03:05you achieved a lot, you know a lot and you worked on such amazing projects and stillhave such passion, continue working like that and even to improve yourself.So I think it's something very motivating for me, definitely, and I hope for the listeners as well.Thank you.No, yeah, I absolutely love what I'm doing.And I get bored very easily.So imagine how much variety what I'm doing gives me.So it's insane that I've been doing this for almost 21 years now in various fields.
01:03:46And I still love it.I still love what I'm doing to know.And I'm very passionate about the final results.I love it.I don't want to stop doing what I'm doing.actually I want to do more and I always feel like I'm not doing enough.But yeah.But I hope you reward yourself from time to time to, you know,
01:04:14give yourself some, you know, so that you get a sense of accomplishmentand don't pursue constantly, but at the same time, you're like, oh, well done, Marco.We're working on that.I'm my worst criticyou'll never catch me sayingoh this thing I did was soit was amazingI'm so proud of myself
01:04:42I mean I'm proud of myself in a sense that I'm proud ofthe things I managed to work onbutif we have aprivate conversationsI'm sure I'll have all sorts of negative things to sayabout my workand just because this is the kind of
01:04:59person I am, it's just that I never tend to reward myself and shout about my accomplishments,which I think it's not exactly a positive.But yeah, no, so...No, I understand you.And in your next position, what would be the salary that you would want to get?The salary?No, sorry, it was purposeful.No, it was purposeful interview like question because you said that before, Simon.
01:05:34No, of course I'm not going to ask you this. I said it on purpose.That'll be amazing. Yeah.No, of course, don't answer this. It was just like that.Of course not. Yeah, sure.My question was, where can people follow you?Where can people see your work and promote yourself?Sure. My work is.on marco gifuni.com
01:06:01m a r c o g i f u n i dot comyou can find me on instagram and lincolnand i m d b and yeahon the ether i think but yeah my work isusually shared on social media and and mymy website firstyep so check it out as i saidI seen it and it's beautiful.
01:06:31So make sure to have a look.I will add it to show notes as well.And Marco, in the last few minutes,is there something you want to share,something I should have asked and did not?No, I just want to say,thank you so much for having me.You know this already.
01:06:50I'm one of the listeners of this podcast.And I'm grateful for that.I wish there were more people like that.There will be.There will be.I mean, in the same thing we just said,things take time to be, you know, build and get to a standard.That is appropriate.
01:07:12But, I mean, this podcast is really insightful.It's really nice to see and hear colleagues of mine,you know, share their life story and how they got to that point.Because you don't think about the journey of people.You see what I mean.Like, we get to work with so many people from so many different parts of the worldare just taken into account that they're good, this is why they're here, but you don't know what they have done to get to that point.The fact that you interview people from all walks or life and it's super interesting to hear their journey.
01:07:53I absolutely agree.I appreciate that.Often you see people in successful positions or a position that you would be jealous of and then you speak with them and there is such a long journey, so much hard work behind it that it's great to remind ourselves and it gives you also some motivation to continue.Absolutely.I mean it's the fact that again this transpires from a lot of the episodes it's done so far.You see these people there are like at the forefront of the field of expertise and they're amazing.And you just can't imagine that these people are just like you were like 14, 20 years ago.It's just blank slates.
01:08:44They just decided to do the stuff they're good at at the moment.And that's how they progress.And that's how they got to the level they are at the moment.And again, it's so hard to imagine that we all start from a black slate.We all, I mean, initially, just have the wheel to pursue some stuff.Yeah, yeah, absolutely.It's an incredible podcast, mate.I told you more than once.
01:09:13And yeah, I wish you all the best with it.Thank you so much for having me.I really appreciate it.I really enjoyed this.So thank you so much, Marco.I hope what we discussed it will inspire people.You will achieve what you want and that your following will grow.So thank you.
01:09:33Thank you.Cheers.Thank you for listening.If you enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app,get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests.Thank you and see you soon.
There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click any sentence in the transcript to leave one.