Produced By - Beyond the Frame: Where VFX Passion Fuels an Eternal Creative Fire | #41: Marco Gifuni

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Part 1: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/produced-by/episodes/Big-Dreams--Bigger-Canvas-Small-Town-Artist-Sketches-His-Way-to-Hollywood--SPECIAL-Marco-Gifuni-e2eqcjb Big Dreams, Bigger Canvas: Small Town Artist Sketches His Way to Hollywood | #SPECIAL: Marco Gifuni Part two of our conversation takes us straight into the heart of the VFX industry with Marco as our guide. He'll unveil the secrets behind captivating Hollywood productions, ignite your imagination with his personal projects and share his boundless future ambitions. And for aspiring creatives? Marco doesn't hold back. He'll sprinkle valuable advice throughout the interview, equipping you with the tools to chase your own dreams with unwavering conviction. Elevate your online presence with the help of Trailblazed, your (and our) favourite digital marketing agency. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://trailblazed.digital/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you enjoy the show, please, consider supporting it on Patreon or by buying a virtual coffee (or chocolate). ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.buymeacoffee.com/producedby⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Boost your creative career by joining our new Skillshare course and feel free to let us know how you liked it. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://skl.sh/3Rh7ZtY⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Don’t forget to subscribe to our newsletter to stay up to date, get the latest news and much more. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Connect with Marco: ⁠https://marcogifuni.com/ ⁠ ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcogifuni/⁠ ⁠https://www.instagram.com/marco_gifuni⁠  ⁠https://www.imdb.com/name/nm8834884/⁠ ⁠https://www.artstation.com/marco_gifuni⁠ Connect with the host: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow the podcast: Links: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Web: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://produced-by-podcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Instagram: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://instagram.com/produced_by_podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT5LHnM6YCaeVzIr0WatOsw⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Spotify: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/41BiG5YvGIgITz1N14hF2E ⁠⁠⁠⁠ Apple Podcasts: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/produced-by/id1684669642⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ If you enjoy listening to the podcast, please, leave a review on your podcast app, subscribe and share it with your friends. You can also send us a message and share any feedback, advice and tips for guests. About Produced By: Produced By unveils captivating stories of courageous people who set out to pursue careers in highly competitive fields, despite often challenging circumstances. Enter the spotlight with our guests and get inspired, whether your interests are in the creative industries, personal growth or you simply want to have fun. Listen to individuals who represent a wide range of professional backgrounds, geographic locations and career stages. So come along to follow their adventures and learn from life's experiences as we kick off on this epic journey. Thanks for listening and see you soon! Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Marco, as you are working in that company and you mentioned that D-neck was one of the clients, is that how you then got into the D-neck? Not exactly.

I mean, that was a few years back. And I joined Deneg three years ago. After Pacific Rim, I did a lot more work as commercial. And I was really lucky to work with companies like the mill and MPC again. I went back to MPC a couple of times as a freelancer. And I've been at the meal a lot as a freelancer as well, doing all sorts of commercials. and commercial work that was really fun and engaging and again i learned a lot of stuff

at the meal i mean as i said a freelancing is possibly the best way to learn fast and to learn a variety of things on the job and this is exactly what companies like the meal have done for me they have such a variety of projects and needs that You basically need to learn fast and apply what you learned on the project. So after that I've been at Mill, NBC. Blind, working on Mission Impossible. Blind is another company there specialises in UI work or film. They've done all sorts. They're really, really good.

their director is an amazing person. So yeah, I've been very fortunate to really never stop. This is the other thing with me. I mean, for example, right now I'm forcing myself to stop for a few weeks because if it was for me, I would work every day. And this is what I've done for years, literally bouncing around from projects to projects. You don't even realize that the year,

the year has ended. It's just work too much. Is that because you enjoy that much or are you workaholic? It's a bit of both. I'm certainly a workaholic. I remember a friend of mine told me I'm the only person who's hobby is his actual job. Like when I when I finish doing my my job, I basically use the same programs and the same tools to pursue my personal work, which is my hobby, I suppose. I mean, I suppose this is a condition of pretty much everyone in our industry as when you work on your personal stuff.

But yeah, I'm definitely a workaholic, and it's the fact that you always have this thing of if I refuse this gig, what happens if I don't find another one in the back of your head? which again I totally have and yeah that's probably the reason why I do that I'm less so right now because again I'm trying to chill a bit for years I've been

doing this as a freelancer I'm sure I'll fall on my old habits pretty soon now that I'm back into freelance word but yeah and where there are some other exciting projects you can talk about after you know before well well as I said I was

fortunate to join D-Neg for three years we just farted ways and went back to freelancing but my time there was absolutely amazing and I was very very fortunate to work on projects like the matrix what else Shazzo Sam, Aquaman, the Adam Projects, Cicidale, a lot of really, really cool stuff. And the Variety and caliber of the things that we managed to do is absolutely astonishing. It's just that when you see them on screen of them. See, this is the thing that happens to me every time. When I see on screen, stuff that we've been working on for weeks and months,

I almost can't believe that's the same thing that it's just that can't be it that doesn't look exactly exactly the same right it is exactly the same it's exactly the same thing it's just it looks so nice and and believable that you're like no that that must be a real thing it's not the thing that I've created to actually

yeah especially if you compare it to to the beginning when there was almost nothing and now in a film when it looks real and you it's just you know like in a real life such a big progress yes absolutely projects like the matrix and you know such a massive assets you literally can't picture in your head when you start and the very end of it it's just this thing is like how did we do this i mean who came up with this idea as just this collective of minds and it's just an incredible feeling. It really makes you to, I mean, they're useful,

if anything. It's amazing. Yeah, it's an amazing feeling. Do you want to expand on, not necessarily from Deneck, but some assets that you worked on and were perhaps the most enjoyable, the most rememberable, or challenging or for some reason worth mentioning? Yeah, I've got a few. I suppose one of the most challenging was the con pods for GepC Avenger, which is one of the robots in Pacific Rim Uprising. Basically, the con pods are these consoles there are in the head of the robot where the humans sit and interact. and they are indeed interactive. So basically, we just add, as a starting point,

we literally just had the actors doing this. And we had to, on each movement, we had to literally have a bottom in front of it and make it interact as the finger was tapping in the exact same point. So everything is dictated by the movements of the act. actors and obviously what the director wanted and the visual language. And that was very challenging because again, this thing, I had to do concept art for it,

I had to animate it, I had to model it, I had to shade it, I had to render it, I had to do basically everything but come. And that was very, very challenging because the consoles are not just a static piece of art They move and they change and parts move to create different shapes. And every time they tap something, that thing disappears and it gives life to something else. It offers another tab. So it was very, very complex a task to do. And again, the team was amazing. I was working on one robot, but there were people that were doing UI, people that were doing concepts,

people that were doing other robots. because I think in total it's like four to five robots in Pacific Rim uprising it was very very challenging but it was I mean nonetheless it was super fun and again

to see something rarely happens to see something on screen 80% of the film and it's exactly what you did so that's a sense of you know achievement

and fact that you really managed to do something big, probably colleagues, of course. But yeah, other projects, again, I was super lucky to do so many, and some of them, I don't really remember. Sometimes I happen to watch films. Oh, yeah, I've worked on that.

Or commercials. That really happens. It really does. But, yeah, no, even, I suppose, that the other one that is on part to Pacific Rim is The Matrix. I mean, I really, really enjoyed that. And I still can't believe that I'm the only person in my class at university of all those people that were going crazy for the Matrix

and managed to work on the Matrix. Yeah, yeah. And again, if I was a betting man, I would have never bet on myself. to work on the matrix. Yeah, that's so cool. I mean, I suppose these days the word iconic is thrown about quite a lot for things that are not really iconic. And the Matrix really is a defining moment for digital art and design and all things cinema. Yeah.

Just a little side note to confirm what you're saying is that I did a... podcast episode of you i think was maybe episode 31 it was with maish and he he's also he worked in vfx and he he is a big fan of matrix as well and as a proof is that he actually named his son neo he said that on a podcast i was so surprised yeah and he also said it was amazing such an influential film of his life that he enjoyed it that it inspired him to pursue care of the FX and when he said

that he named his son I was like wow I didn't expect it so confirmation how influential film it is absolutely I didn't know that I know range amazing guy I didn't know he named his son Neo yeah absolutely

I mean a Matrix it was such a you know a defining moment for a digital and obviously 80% of it is 3D. So I suppose never before 3D and the 3D world was so invasive in a film to the point that you literally just have actors

and a green screen and the rest is just 3D. I really enjoyed working on it And I knew joining the NAG that was, I mean, they were working on the Matrix. Obviously, I wasn't even hoping to join the Matrix thing, but that was my very first project. So I really loved it. And I was very fortunate to basically work on assets as well as characters and texture and all sorts. stuff I was really really lucky to be a true generalist on their on their projects and work with some of the best designers I've ever worked with some of them are friends of mine

to this day it's just it was incredible it was really really great and as we said before I mean the stuff we did it really shows we really gives a film that added value. It's just mind blowing from beginning to end. The VFX is just incredible. And yeah.

And I got the credit and they got my name wrong. So what did they get wrong in your name? I think they spelled they spelt a guffini something like that.

Oh my God. It just took the liberty to change my last name. But yeah, no, it's apart from that, that's probably one of the projects are the most proud of, because I mean, if anything, because I was part of one of the biggest teams for a project,

every studio in the world was involved in that, possibly every studio every studio there is for mentioning that stuff. But yeah, it was such a on Hona and obviously if you need some kind of

sample approval for the stuff you do that was it. It was kind of a big boys club kind of thing. I really loved it. I really loved it. And after so much experience you've got, are you still projects that challenge you, that you still feel like, oh, this, I need to learn something new, how to do this?

Yes, absolutely. I was talking to a colleague of mine, ex-collarine of mine the other day. We were working together at the mill. And one of the most challenging projects I've ever read in my career is a Pringles commercial. Because I was asked to do a thing that is so unusual and so hard to do that I had to literally sit down and hack the program in a way that was possible to come up with. something like this is just i mean you get you get asked to do all sorts of stuff every day and that's i suppose that's the beautiful thing of working with digital programs is the fact that they give you so many tools and it's up to you to combine them in order to achieve a result that

possibly i mean it's never seen before can you tell more details about what what was that you had to figure out or what was that challenging? Oh, yeah. Basically, it was a relatively elementary, you know, commercial. It was just a spinning bowl, right? So a spinning ball of rice that turns into crisps, Pringles, obviously. But on the ball, they wanted to have a zoetrope effects. Now, for the people that don't know what Zyotrope is,

I don't know if you've ever seen those spinning vases that have these images that almost look like animations, and that's because there's a frame-by-frame design on the bars. Now, the Zootrope usually repeats the same animation, so you have a guy jumping, a guy running, but it's the same animated, like the same 10 frames, because obviously the diameter of the vase only gives you, gives you so many frames to work with.

Now, the client wanted a zoidrope effect, but then displayed a whole animation of a minute. I think it was, no, it wasn't a minute. It was 40 seconds or something like that. So we're talking hundreds of frames. How would you do that? Because obviously, the diameter of the bolt is still the same. It still gives you, what, four frames, max.

So I had to come up with an idea. and I worked with this super talented illustrator called Granbury and a bunch of other people from the mill. And yeah, basically we came up with this idea and we were using different textures. We split the bowl in full. I don't want to go into technicality, but basically every turn of this bowl, this ball was using four different textures. So we split the bowl in four fractions, four quarters,

and in each quarter we had a different frame. So at every spin, the bowl was touching a primitive sphere, and every touch, every turn of the ball, this was kicking in every other four frames. So yeah, four, eight, da-da-da-da. And that allowed us to display a full animation.

But that was a whole thought process that took days and after a while this colleague of mine had a baby so you had to leave for a while so I was in charge

of the illustrative side of things as well so I had to do illustrations as well because these bowls were decorated with illustration and the illustrations were moving as well so it was a whole thing I had to come up with something there was basically displaying this animation and we had to do it in the shortest amount of time.

It had to be super fast and there was a whole plethora of things like there was rice in the bowl. The rice had to turn into Pringles Crispses. It was a whole thing. And again, it's a commercial that no one ever saw. It's just on social media. Okay, I hope it's on your website after listening. It's not. It's not.

Oh, you wanted to watch. I mean, I know, I'll show you. I'll show you. It's fine. But in terms of technical aspects, that really was challenging. Because he wasn't your usual. I want you to do a model of a dragon. Model the dragon.

Now, there was basically everything you can think of, because I was doing comp, I was doing shots. I was doing looked up. I was doing modeling. I was doing texturing. Everything you can think of. all into one and you had to take care of multiple aspects of a project. I had to take care of multiple aspects of a project all by myself. I was the lead 3D artists on their projects.

Again, that's not to say that all my other colleagues in the same were absolutely incredible. Mackey, Grant, all amazing. But yeah, it was just... Yeah, it was just, D'Amil is this amazing place that really gives you a total freedom on your projects. Obviously, they do give you your concepts. They do give you a brief, but they're really happy to make it do your thing, and they really appreciate the artistic side of things. It's really nice.

So, yeah, I know it's quite strange to say my most complex projects in my career is Pringle. commercials. But yeah, it happens sometimes. No, it's understandable. Based on your explanation, it was hard to to follow up and try to imagine what was it like. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And again, I couldn't have done it

if I possibly didn't have the familiarity that I have with Cinema 4D. Yeah, it's like being a home based. And as we discussed some of the cool projects that you worked on, do you have like a dream project that you want to work on? Or maybe not, you can say both film and maybe specific asset? I would say, yes. I mean, there's definitely something I'd love to do.

Possibly the same things I do now. working on the film and being involved in the concept side of things a bit more. Because I mean, although I was really lucky in companies like Denegg and Terry, sorry, to work on both aspects, so concepts and, you know, the actual creation side of things, I'd rather be involved at least for once on the concepts. stages a bit more, which is really cool. And it's something that really gives you to artistic freedom. Sometimes your work gets really, really appreciated and you get to do the stuff and

come up with the idea and the concept. That being said, the other thing I'd love to do is to create a short movie, something that can really call mine. The only problem with that is that, I mean, we're not an island. You can't do it by yourself. It's going to take ages and you have to dedicate your entire attention to it. I've always tried to find, you know, friends and colleagues that would love to pursue something like this. But they inevitably drop out at some point.

because we got, you know, lives, we've got freelance things we need to attend to. So if there's someone listening, make sure to reach out. Yeah. But only serious offers. Exactly. Tell them, mate. No, but jokes aside, it will be amazing to create something. I was looking at this project called Puxley.

created by Ben Mara and it's incredible. It's an incredible animation he managed to gather, incredible artists, and it shows the final product is insane, is incredible. And I wouldn't mind creating something quite niche as well. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it for, you know, a massive release. It's just something I can really call mine. And have a hand on all sorts of aspects of it. that's something that I'll really, I mean, soon or later, knowing me, soon or later, I'll do something like this.

Have you got already some ideas in your mind? Yes, not fully formed, but I definitely had some ideas, and I do have some ideas right now. I have these folders. I have this folder, actually, single one, call ideas. I just chuck stuff in it. And again, they're not fully formed. It's just, it takes time. It's something, I mean, a lot of people tried, a lot of people failed.

It takes time. And it's something that is all encompassing. You need to focus on that for months and months, which is something that possibly I'll have the possibilities to do soonish. But I'm not sure. I mean, it's very hard. If in the middle of it someone would approach me with a freelance gig or something I find it, I find really interesting to say no. But we'll see.

Yeah. We'll be excited for that. And now you said that publicly, so you will have to do that one day. Yeah, exactly. Now it's in the ether. So I have to do it. And as you said, Marco, before, about the concept work. It sounds interesting to me.

Can you say more about it? Is it that you are included in a project basically before it starts and you are helping to develop it? Yes. So usually the concept stages are the very first stage of a project, being illustration concept art or just 3D concepts, 2D concepts, sketches however you want to define it this is exactly what every project starts with so if you have a character or if you have an asset um the very first thing you start to do is just uh

just sketch some ideas based on what the client or the director once um for example in ghosting the shell rupert sanders just for for months had this amazing team of designers that they basically just came up with ideas they had to come up with a whole world a whole world of stuff and and it was incredible it was really really good to really show it yeah that's something where you can really use your creativity Absolutely, yeah. Especially when something like, again, talking about ghosting the show, something so big as creating a city, creating a world, creating a visual language, it really gives you a full spectrum of, you know, creative possibilities you can come up with. And it's incredible. I mean, it's super rare because as a freelancer, you tend to come in when stuff has to be done. like materially built but I would

love to I've done it in the past I do it at times but I would love to be more involved in the concert stages and of course

the personal projects like a short movie would definitely give you the possibility to do something like this because it's really yours if you want to boost

your online presents check out our digital marketing agents called Trailblazed. You can also enroll in a Skillshare course called the 10 tips on how to succeed in your creative career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. We got a question I'm curious about and I like to ask people, especially from VFX. So when you go to cinema or you watch the film, how do you actually enjoy the film,

considering your experience in VFX? Are you able to enjoy it or are you thinking about how effects are done? Are you looking at the mistakes? Yeah, my girlfriend hates watching films with me. I'm constantly pointing out. Look at that, look at that. That's all 3D. That's not real. and this is what I did and this is what I did yeah exactly this is exactly what I do it's exactly what I do

I suppose when you work on on the actual products and you've seen it for months and you've seen it from its infancy where basically there was just an axo with a blue screen

it's much harder for us to get into the you know the final product because that's what you've always seen. You've just seen it in its infancy. And we tend to spot the negatives

much easier than anyone else. Like there are films I've worked on that I don't disclose at least overtly I've worked on because the final result is not good. And of course this can be I mean, it's not good for me

because I always have a I mean, I always compare stuff with stuff that it's properly done. Those are those are the films where you can use your alter ego Marco Guffini in credits that it's not good.

I didn't think about that. I should do that. That's not me. That's the other guy. Yeah, definitely. Definitely, definitely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's not child of

for us and this is why when a film it is like properly done is really like from beginning to end it's really uniform and you can see that there's a level of professionalism that really exceeds the normal

quota is all the more amazing to see because it's just the product is just amazing I was looking I was watching the Spider-Man into the Spider-Verts that

that cartoon is a jewel I've never seen anything like it like every shot is a masterpiece and it's just incredible absolutely I completely agree we'll see how it goes on

Academy Awards I saw nominations slightly and obviously I'm not sure it's got nominations yeah I think it was nominated and there are obviously big competition so we'll see how it goes. Absolutely, but yeah, it definitely deserves whatever is going to win.

It's just, and more. It's just so amazing and amazingly done. Like, literally you can't fault it. It's just an incredible achievement for the studio. And of course, I mean, sometimes you have. have these amazing projects that you can't you can't forget it's just that they're just in your mind constantly and matrix is one of them is so good yeah yeah it's sometimes shame if the effects are so well done and so beautiful and then maybe the storyline is a bit worse and then you know

the critics are quite negative about the film which is not because of the effect but maybe because of the story or something else and it kind of... Yeah, I always find... Absolutely. I always find super weird when the

beauty of a film is dictated by Rotten Tomatoes or I am a dream. It's just that the critics are not the end or be all. It's just that there's so much... Forget the fact that there's so much work behind every film, of course. But I understand that sometimes the storyline is a bit lacking and it's just, it's not the most original thing, but there are other aspects. For example, I was watching everything everywhere all at once, which everyone was raving about.

And I understand that there are some aspects that are really good. But, I mean, the storyline is not, at least for me, it's not the most original. but there are the things that really really raise the film to another level the acting. It's just incredible. And I think especially in this particular film it's, if I'm not mistaken, that the budget was quite low

and if you look at the final product, it's quite impressive what they've managed. Absolutely, yeah, that's the thing. Sometimes you turn out, massive Hollywood budgets again I'm not sure this is the case for this film

it's like with I think the film creator that went out recently from what I heard that the budget if you consider what it looks like the budget was very low and it looks so big budget

yeah I haven't seen it but I've seen a lot of concept arts and it looks amazing and they managed to gather some of the best concert artists on the market and it really shows because the ideas

are for what I can see from the trailer really innovative and yeah yeah yeah Marco we need to discuss your personal work

so the project that you work in your free time because I need to tell the listeners to check it out because I've seen it and some either assets or characters you worked on are beautiful so make sure to check out Marcos website, Instagram and portfolio. Oh, thank you so much means a lot. So tell us more about it. My personal work, I mean, it's always hard to describe it, isn't it? It's just I would say

The majority of the things I do are character-based. So, as I said, I like creating monsters, creatures, characters. I'm a creature designer, which is something that fortunately I get to do in a much broader scale of film and movies and commercials. And I do that as well in my free time, so I'm a bit obsessed with it. I like to come up with my own concepts and translate them into creatures and characters and assets, which is something that I can't seem to be able to stop. I just do it almost automatically when I finish one, I start another one. Addiction.

Yeah, pretty much. That's the best way of being productive, being obsessed. Can you maybe tell us the process? because I wonder how you come up with a certain idea, why this specific one, why does it look this way or this way? Absolutely, yeah. It's quite random most of the time. It's something that catches my eye

or a concept that I've always had in mind or a word or something that is a mesh-mash of things I've seen. most of the times since I'm a bit big artistry buff is obviously something that I use as inspiration that I've seen in museums or books there are things that I've always loved since I was 12 my favorite artists my favorite art periods so that there are loads of, you know, Easter eggs and things like this. I use that. Basically, I'm connected to that.

So, I mean, in general, yeah, characters and assets are the things I love doing the most, and dioramas. So whole scenes with backgrounds and stuff. And I love the facts that to be able to, I mean, I love the facts that I'm able to, sometimes. communicate whole stories via the diorama I build or at least I try to. So I mean I suppose character and creatures are the things that best you know convey information at least for me and I really like to again build up a character, build up

the story and try to communicate that and of course there is a level of you know, you need to come up with your own conclusions and make up your own stories when you see the image. But it's really nice to create little dioramas and, you know, have a story transparent from it. So yeah, it's super hard to describe my work. But yeah, I hope I made it justice. And for example, how long does it take to create? character or the you know from the initial idea when you say oh this is a complete one if it very much depends yeah yeah it very much depends I suppose I mean sometimes it take a couple months

sometimes it takes a couple weeks it depends how complex and the complexity of the whole diorama and the whole scene is in general I kind of give myself you know, a period of time, because I had it in the past, I just add details forever and before you, you wake up. It's like a year it's past. And you don't want that. But, yeah, I tend to go for quality or quantity. I know a lot of people that basically produce a lot of stuff, produce, produce, produce every week. And I can't do that, unfortunately.

because otherwise, I mean, it happens oftentimes that you're not happy with the stuff that you published and you're like, okay, if I only could go back and spend a bit more time on that particular thing. There possibly no one is going to see, but you are obviously going to notice it. So I tend to spend a good amount of time, but never more than a couple of months. what are some assets or dioramas you are proud of that we can see on your website or Instagram I suppose there's one that's called

the toy maker which is this goblin kind of creature that I've imagined it's got a toy shop and they're all handmade so it was really fun because I got to create my own toys and build up this, you know, story from scratch, which again, I hope it transpires from the image. But I really like to make my characters humanoids, but not necessarily humans, if that makes sense. And it's nice to inject a bit of originality in the facial features and the anatomy.

so it doesn't have to correspond necessarily to something that we see every day. And that's the beauty, I suppose, of doing monsters and characters in general. As much as I think that it takes skill to reproduce a portrait in 3D, I suppose it's definitely, it requires definitely less skill and just come up with your own thing from scratch. And something that you can't find out. anywhere, it's just an image in your head, which is super hard. But it's a nice exercise.

I really love it. And I really respect people that do that. It's just such a nice thing. It's like approaching something that you've never seen before when you see a product done by someone else that is completely different, completely brand new. And I can imagine it must be hard to actually stop working on it because if you are a perfectionist you are still oh i can do this and this and this and end up doing it forever absolutely yeah you can go on forever i think details and stuff

and that's definitely uh definitely detrimental to you know how much time you spend on a project i know people that spend years of the same character literally years and again before you realize you wasted time because at some point you has to be qualified as a waste of time because you can't I mean even in film you can't tweak stuff forever everything can be tweaked

and better forever everything can be improved everything it's just you have to have that closure kind of mindset at some point and say alright this is fine let's release in the wild and as much

as I understand that we are definitely attached to our child in terms of, you know, asset and is your little baby and you wanted to be as perfect as it gets. But it's just you're always going to get a bit of, you know, things that could be improved sorts of thing in your products. So, yeah. And when working on such asset, do you work on it just as a piece?

pure enjoyment or do you work on it also to showcase your skills in a portfolio or it's kind of balance or it depends? I suppose it's a bit of both. There's definitely the acknowledgement that that's your work and your work is most likely going to help you land a job at some point because obviously it's very important to have your personal work on short on your portfolio. but it's something that I mean is I suppose I just do it or my peace of mind it's just that it's something I've always done personal work even when I was a uni

I used to stay up all night doing stuff for most of the days because the stuff that I was doing at uni wasn't I mean it wasn't the stuff I wanted to do and it just wasn't enough for me and to be honest it kind of served me right because the things that are

Most of the things that I do now are an overshoot of the things that I learned doing by myself when I was at uni. No one taught me out to use 3D programs per se because I wasn't doing that necessarily at uni. I was doing more general kind of digital art stuff. And I still have a big portion of my portfolio that is just personal work. It's just me, me, me from start to finish. And it's really important to have your personal work on show. Because, I mean, it's nice to have big names in your portfolio. But let's face it, I mean, there's only so much you can control of that product.

First of all, most likely the idea it's not yours. It's a client. Then there's a director, there's a producer, and there's a supervisor. So there are so many steps in between you and the final release. that obviously for better or worse alter your your asset

your character so it's always nice to show your personal work and what's the software you work with NoC is it still Cinema 4D or something else as well a few I work with a few different software

well Cinema 4D Maya and Z-Brush are definitely the three main ones that I work with substance paint, a substance designer, Arnold Redshift, After Effects, Photoshop of course, Kishot, a bit of Clarice, what else? What is there you don't work with? It will be easier. Well, there are a few things, of course, but when you are so lucky, like, Like, I am to be a generalist, you tend to, you know, try and acquire as many skills and knowledge as possible.

So the more, the merrier when you're a generalist, obviously, when you can fix stuff, that's a skill that is always welcome by clients. And this is what I've always tried to do. It's just let's learn this. Let's see, because this is definitely going to come up with. in a project and yeah it did I managed to learn a few a few programs that really served me well in various projects so do you still have this open learning mindset to you know yeah yeah absolutely I mean I wish I could learn more I've got this thing that every time I'm not working I feel like I'm

wasting my time, lunch and dinner included. But yeah, it's something that I really, really like. And there are things I want to learn, which I'm kind of refraining myself to not to. I mean, there's some, as stupid as it sounds, there's only so much you can keep in your tools that. tools that it's just at some point something has to go and obviously there are programs that I haven't used in a while that I'm less proficient at and I used to be really good at it's just I mean when you don't use them in a while obviously tend to get but in general I want to try and keep a balance between the creative side of things

and skill and technical skill because you can get lost in you know technicalities and technical aspects of programs and stuff and I really want to keep the accent on look I can come up with solid concepts and execute them so I think it is just really good to be a bit about really yeah and I guess also to have this mindset to keep up with the latest updates latest technology and still brush your skills to be able to stand out in a competition from the crowd. Absolutely. It definitely is. Definitely is. What are some assets or your personal project that you are

currently working on? At the moment, I was trying to come up with a concept for a monster there is a mixture of a Babirusa. Do you know what Babi Russe is? It's a warthog, basically. It's like a, you know, Pumba from the Lion King?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Bobby Rusa is slightly similar, but he's got, like, a big. So is it, like, a specific character, or is that the species, what it's called? No, no, this is an animal. It is real. It's just, I want to come up with a concept that involves a mixture of that animal and other things. I was thinking tentacles and things like this. It's just, I mean, my brain is a bit, it's a bit strange animal.

We've got people screaming, animals running and have to funnel them into something. So are you in initial stages of developing this? Yes, very much so. Again, this could well be one of those projects that I never release or because I've got so many of them like every other designer. and you got that whip folder it's just junk stuff that you're not happy with you're not going to release What would be the steps now

Would you start drawing it on a paper first I usually do a 3D sketch You can start from a sphere You can start from a human pose A human mannequin I oftentimes start from a sphere because you don't know if you start from a human

you kind tend to constrain yourself to the human for you don't know if you want a full body in the render you don't know if you want

a full character so I mean again at the moment it's a bit you know rough in terms of idea I just know that I want some

specifics meaning I'd like to use this animal as one of the one of the concepts but yeah kind of and this is probably something

that should stop doing oftentimes I just jump into it and then the concept evolves as I go which takes a bit more time instead of I mean when you have like a solid concept as a starting point you could just

follow that and that makes things much more you know much faster yeah Yeah, at the moment I'm just working on that. I just finished working for a client project, which kept me busy for a few months. So again, this is my holiday kind of period.

I'm just forcing myself not to work. They're not going to last long. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, again, we will be excited to see the results, hopefully, in a few months. for some time. Thank you. So, yeah. No, I was just going to say from your rich career and rich experience,

share some wisdom with us, some advice, recommendations, and tips from your career. That's a hard one. That's a good question, but it's a hard one. One thing that I would always say, to students, what I'm lucky enough to, you know, talk to them. It's just don't listen to, you know, people you have around that want to kind of dictate what your next step is going to be.

Because almost nobody knows what you want to do better than you. I'm culpable of the fact that growing up, I used to listen. and to everyone but myself. And when you get to 40 and you haven't achieved things that you wanted to achieve when you were at 16, now the 40 is all yours. But obviously you just did it with the best of intentions because you listen to your parents, you listen to your friends. And, I mean, let's face it, who's going to tell you, I want to do creatures for leaving?

Who's going to tell you, yeah, of course, go, go and do monsters for living? that's going to be amazing. You're going to put the bills all day. No one's going to tell you that. But, I mean, it's super important to believe in your potential and believe in the possibility of doing things, which is something that I've always done. And the first part of my life, I was basically doubtful

about everything that came out of my mouth. So if I wanted to do something, I'm not sure I should do this, because that person said that that's not a good path. But, I mean, who says that? These people are just as unaware as you are. I was surrounded by, especially, again, in the first part of my life,

I was surrounded by people there, didn't have the faintest idea of what digital design was. But everyone wanted to tell me what to do. If you want to go to London, this is insane. Why are you going to London for? Just stay here. There are studios here. And now, for us.

14 years down the line, the situation is what it is in Italy and I get to work with the best in the market. Again, I don't consider myself one of the best designers in London. Far from it, I'm super critical about my stuff. But I'm just extremely lucky to work shoulders to shoulder with people that are absolutely incredible. I've been allowed to work on absolutely incredible projects. and this is just because I wanted it. This is just because one day I woke up and said, I need to leave.

Which is exactly what you've done. It's exactly what a lot of other people have done. And he takes such an amount of courage, which is not often acknowledged, to just leave everything you know. Literally, I left everything I knew. So a lot of other people did. You did the same.

and the amount of courage and guts that takes to do something like this is just nothing short of amazing really and yeah so the thing from my modest you know point of view I'd love to say to you know a student or someone that wants to embark in this you know BFX journey or just digital design call it however you want. It's just trust you or your gut feeling because that's exactly, I mean, that's the only thing you've got as a starting point, you've got feeling, you haven't got skills because obviously you haven't started it yet. And it's, I mean, it's much more rewarding to have something you really love at the end,

as opposed to something that you just chose because you weren't sure of it. It's just, yeah, again, for all my faults, this is something that I wanted since I was, I don't know, 13, 14, I managed to get it. And again, for better or worse, I can really say, I do what I wanted to do. And I'm super proud of that. Yeah, it's definitely great advice and situation I can relate to that. been to something similar. And I often like to ask myself if, you know, if there is such a, you need to make such a big decision or you're unsure,

if you would regret not doing the thing. And then if you think about, for example, 10 years in the future, would I regret that back then I didn't do that thing? If yes, then probably you should do that, although it's a step out of your comfort zone and something uncertain. Absolutely. I mean, as a rule of thumb, everything takes time, right?

You want to play drums. You want to be as good as Mike Portnoy. That takes time. It takes years. And the starting point for everything is zero. You have nothing. You have skills. You haven't got skills.

Obviously, you have to build from somewhere. And it's just the only thing you've got, initially it's the vision. It's the only thing you've got. And again, I had absolutely not. I came here with, as I said, before, £1,200. It was given to me. And it's just, I wasn't even a fully formed designer. But it's nice to have something to build from scratch.

There's a sense of pride in that. And yeah. Yeah. And what I like to think of if there's a sense of if the goal or your vision seems too big. If you think about it, if you do just a little bit every day, how it adds up over time.

Because obviously nothing is, I know it sounds cliche, but now it's appropriate since Marco was in Rome, that Rome wasn't built in one day. I wasn't preparing this. I promise, it just keeps my mind. But, you know, the consistent, that's good.

the consistency and just do a bit every day and see where in a week, in month, in year, where you are and it gives you some confidence and motivation. Absolutely. Absolutely. I really think, and this is probably a leap, but this is one of my points of contention against generative AI art. It's the fact that he skips the process. It takes from A to B in. a second. It doesn't reach you, it doesn't give you anything but the final product that it's not even yours. And this is what one of my main point of contention is the fact that doing anything jiu-jitsu playing an instrument painting, you come out of it, you come out of it that you basically have learned something, you have learned a skill, or at least you have a faint idea of what that skill is. And this is what I suppose is the best thing of, you know, building yourself and building

your career and learning a skill. It's the fact that you can really say, look, I started out. I had no idea what I was doing and look what I've got now. And again, it doesn't have to be something that makes you a millionaire or makes you famous. It's just amazing to be able to do some stuff. To be able to call yourself professional or proficient in something. I think it's something that is incredibly valuable. And nothing can replace the confidence behind it. If you know that you literally spend, I don't know, thousands of hours developing something,

sometimes even tears or, you know, headache and whatever. And nothing can replace it and nothing can take it away from you. Absolutely. I totally agree. And this is possibly something that in an era, like the one we leave it in, it's been lost a bit because we want everything to be given to us like super fast. Like we just want to jump to the meat of it. And it's just, it's not always like that. It's nice to take time and study things and learn. the craft and compare yourself to other people that achieved like really good results and say, oh, that's nice. I want to be like that. But let me see if I can learn exactly the same skills for better and try to, you know, raise the bar. I think that's definitely something that has been lost a bit and I value tremendously.

I love that I absolutely agree and speaking of visions, goals and next steps where do you see yourself in a few years or where do you want to see yourself in a few years? That's the usual question

they ask you in interviews why you see yourself and find you this is this this is an inspiration sorry no this is inspiration for us and to motivate yourself to leap up to your words that you say publicly.

Absolutely, I was being facetious. Where do I see myself? I suppose doing the same things to higher degrees, higher levels. I love being able to say I work with that person, I worked on that project. and I really think that every time I work with someone that is particularly skilled in his craft or craft

I can take away a lot of knowledge and stuff being as much as a spawner as possible so I really I really cherish that I really love working with people that are master what they do.

So I suppose, yeah, what do I see myself? I suppose doing the same things that I'm doing now, but to higher and higher levels. And just build a portfolio I can possibly call my own. Yeah. Yeah, it's a show and yeah. It's inspiring to hear this because after our discussion, it sounds like you, I mean, it doesn't sound like it.

you achieved a lot, you know a lot and you worked on such amazing projects and still have such passion, continue working like that and even to improve yourself. So I think it's something very motivating for me, definitely, and I hope for the listeners as well. Thank you. No, yeah, I absolutely love what I'm doing. And I get bored very easily. So imagine how much variety what I'm doing gives me. So it's insane that I've been doing this for almost 21 years now in various fields.

And I still love it. I still love what I'm doing to know. And I'm very passionate about the final results. I love it. I don't want to stop doing what I'm doing. actually I want to do more and I always feel like I'm not doing enough. But yeah. But I hope you reward yourself from time to time to, you know,

give yourself some, you know, so that you get a sense of accomplishment and don't pursue constantly, but at the same time, you're like, oh, well done, Marco. We're working on that. I'm my worst critic you'll never catch me saying oh this thing I did was so it was amazing I'm so proud of myself

I mean I'm proud of myself in a sense that I'm proud of the things I managed to work on but if we have a private conversations I'm sure I'll have all sorts of negative things to say about my work and just because this is the kind of

person I am, it's just that I never tend to reward myself and shout about my accomplishments, which I think it's not exactly a positive. But yeah, no, so... No, I understand you. And in your next position, what would be the salary that you would want to get? The salary? No, sorry, it was purposeful. No, it was purposeful interview like question because you said that before, Simon.

No, of course I'm not going to ask you this. I said it on purpose. That'll be amazing. Yeah. No, of course, don't answer this. It was just like that. Of course not. Yeah, sure. My question was, where can people follow you? Where can people see your work and promote yourself? Sure. My work is. on marco gifuni.com

m a r c o g i f u n i dot com you can find me on instagram and lincoln and i m d b and yeah on the ether i think but yeah my work is usually shared on social media and and my my website first yep so check it out as i said I seen it and it's beautiful.

So make sure to have a look. I will add it to show notes as well. And Marco, in the last few minutes, is there something you want to share, something I should have asked and did not? No, I just want to say, thank you so much for having me. You know this already.

I'm one of the listeners of this podcast. And I'm grateful for that. I wish there were more people like that. There will be. There will be. I mean, in the same thing we just said, things take time to be, you know, build and get to a standard. That is appropriate.

But, I mean, this podcast is really insightful. It's really nice to see and hear colleagues of mine, you know, share their life story and how they got to that point. Because you don't think about the journey of people. You see what I mean. Like, we get to work with so many people from so many different parts of the world are just taken into account that they're good, this is why they're here, but you don't know what they have done to get to that point. The fact that you interview people from all walks or life and it's super interesting to hear their journey.

I absolutely agree. I appreciate that. Often you see people in successful positions or a position that you would be jealous of and then you speak with them and there is such a long journey, so much hard work behind it that it's great to remind ourselves and it gives you also some motivation to continue. Absolutely. I mean it's the fact that again this transpires from a lot of the episodes it's done so far. You see these people there are like at the forefront of the field of expertise and they're amazing. And you just can't imagine that these people are just like you were like 14, 20 years ago. It's just blank slates.

They just decided to do the stuff they're good at at the moment. And that's how they progress. And that's how they got to the level they are at the moment. And again, it's so hard to imagine that we all start from a black slate. We all, I mean, initially, just have the wheel to pursue some stuff. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's an incredible podcast, mate. I told you more than once.

And yeah, I wish you all the best with it. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed this. So thank you so much, Marco. I hope what we discussed it will inspire people. You will achieve what you want and that your following will grow. So thank you.

Thank you. Cheers. Thank you for listening. If you enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.