Produced By - Content Creation in the Age of AI: How to Build, Grow, and Thrive | #76: Audrey Chia

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Audrey Chia is an AI content creator and the founder of Close with Copy, a consultancy blending human insight with AI to help brands scale faster and more effectively. With a background in launching campaigns for major brands like Nike, IKEA, and Samsung at BBH Asia Pacific, Audrey now uses her skills to drive growth through AI-enhanced, conversion-focused copywriting. She specializes in developing bespoke AI content systems that save time and boost ROI, while also offering strategic copywriting to maximize conversions. Audrey’s ability to harness AI is further demonstrated by her rapid LinkedIn growth from 0 to more than 30,000 followers in just eight months. Listen to this episode to learn how to build your brand, grow your LinkedIn profile, and leverage AI for your content, all while staying inspired by Audrey's positive and growth-oriented mindset. Connect with Audrey: https://www.linkedin.com/in/audrey-chia/ Close with Copy: https://www.closewithcopy.co/ https://lp.closewithcopy.co/launchpad-waitlist Connect with Tommen: LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠  Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠  X: ⁠https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠  Podcast: Links: ⁠https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠  Website: ⁠https://produced-by-podcast.com/⁠  Support: ⁠https://www.patreon.com/ProducedByPodcast⁠  Produced (email newsletter): ⁠⁠https://produced.beehiiv.com/⁠ More: Trailblazed (marketing agency): ⁠https://trailblazed.digital/⁠  EpiXtory (podcasting agency): ⁠https://www.epixtory.digital/ Produced (LinkedIn newsletter): ⁠⁠https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7092551882589528065⁠⁠  Produced By with Tommen is your weekly dose of inspiration where ambition meets creativity. Join us as we dive into the journeys of content creators, entrepreneurs, and other remarkable individuals who break barriers and redefine success. Each episode shares unique stories, challenges, and triumphs. From heartfelt struggles to incredible successes, these conversations will motivate you to push beyond your limits and chase your own dreams. Whether you're on a creative path or just love great stories, tune in and become part of a community that constantly strives to push the boundaries. Sit back, relax and enjoy. Connect with Tomas:X: https://x.com/TomasLoucky⁠⁠⁠Stan: https://stan.store/TommenLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomasloucky/⁠⁠Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisistommen/⁠⁠Unproduced:Newsletter: https://unproduced.substack.comYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@unproducednotesSpotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033Ddo8ibDlLYoaP7FFLIWMore:Links: https://linktr.ee/produced_by⁠⁠⁠Newsletter: ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://producednewsletter.substack.com/⁠The Podcast Club: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/25420030/Tools & gear that support the show:Metricool: https://f.mtr.cool/HRJBZKRiverside: https://riverside.sjv.io/vDnDodFavikon: https://www.favikon.com?fpr=tommenRa Optics: https://ra-optics.myshopify.com/discount/TOMMEN?rfsn=8803777.591d19JamX: https://jamx.ai/podcasters-offer?ref_id=e02d48af-ef66-4e76-b804-c2e8d282a8bfSome links are affiliate links, which means I may earn a small commission at no extra cost to you. If you find them useful, using these links helps keep the podcast running. Thank you!  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

I always say human AI, you will never see me saying, like, just use AI for the sake of it. I'm always saying it needs to be a combination of human and AI. The reason is if you are putting out AI content, there's 100% AI generated with no strategy, no thought, no refinement. You will, A, realize that your copy sounds very AI. It's like revolutionized, like, you know, bridging the da-da-da-da-da. So you start to hear patterns, and that's very AI, right? So you obviously need to edit that or like prompted again to remove all these words and phrases. But the second thing is, if you have content without strategy, it doesn't work.

So for example, if you don't understand copywriting and you're not an advertiser, what you would do is you would ask chat GPT to give you 100 headlines. So the problem is, how do you know which one of the 100 headlines is going to work? Before we dive into today's episode, please hit that subscribe button. Your support helps us grow and inspire more people on their journeys. Thank you. Hello, Audrey. Thank you for Jinnah today and welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Thomas. I'm really happy to be here and excited to, you know, have a chat with you. I appreciate it. And Audrey, for those who do know you, can you please introduce yourself? Yeah, so my name is Audrey Chia. I'm from the sunny island of Singapore. If you don't know where we are at, we are a place in Asia with lots of great food, so you should come visit if you can.

I always say you go home a couple of pounds heavier, but it's worth it, right? Yeah, so I'm the founder of Close with Coffee. I run a hybrid human AI copywriting consultancy, and I started my own personal branding journey just one year ago, and I grew from 0 to 30K followers on LinkedIn, which is also my main platform for building my own business, generating leads and also scaling my own consultancy. So that has been kind of a fun journey so far.

Yeah, I was about to say one year and so many followers already in such a name. We'll dive into it more. But let's start with your beginnings. Is it in Singapore where you were born actually? Yes, so I'm born and raised in Singapore. And the funny thing is in Singapore, the path that I'm walking is a little less conventional because most of us grew up in families where you were probably expected to take on more stable jobs. So, for example, you know, being a doctor, a lawyer, you know, like a typical Asian family, right?

And that's also because our country has undergone a huge transition over the past 50 years. So in my parents' generation, they really valued stability. And for myself, I think I am really blessed to have the opportunity to explore new things, try different skill sets and even forge my own path in the sense. And that has been kind of an interesting journey. So when you were young, what is it that you were interested in? Because I assume that it wasn't AI from early ages. Well, maybe it was. If I knew.

Just didn't know yet. Yeah, I just had it. I always had it in me. No. I think the funny part was, I always knew I want to. to be a creative. So when I was 13, I saw an ad on TV and it was an ad about dementia, you know, people growing old and having to rely on their families. And it was the first time I watched an ad that touched me that made me feel something. So when I was 13, I said to myself,

I'm going to be a creative director in advertising and I'm going to film something like that one day. It was such as one with such a good message, it was actually, you know, positive one. Yeah, so although that didn't happen, I didn't get to be an award-winning advertising creative director. But I did in the end use my creativity for other things, right? And now leveraging creativity with AI is something that I also really very much enjoy. And so you said it didn't happen. So was it because maybe you changed your mind or it didn't work out in the end? So one thing that people don't maybe notice is that they see people who are creative as people who need to design something, people who need to tell a story, people who are in advertising, right? But how I see creativity is it's a means to solve a problem. So the way, the thing I enjoyed about that ad was its ability to make someone feel an emotion and want to take action. In the same vein, when I craft,

right now, you know, high converting landing pages or ads for my clients, I am using the same muscle, right? How can I hit someone where they really hurt or where they are really motivated to get them to take action and how do I flex that creative muscle in a different way? But it's still the same thing, right? I'm still tapping into my audience, emotions, my pain points, motivations, desires to then create something that converts for my clients. And so then can you tell us what did you study actually? I was so chasing my dream right of becoming a creative director. I studied communications in Singapore. I studied mass communications with a focus on advertising. But the truth is, you cannot learn advertising in school. I don't care who says you can. Yeah, that's this set reality.

You cannot learn how to be creative. The only way you can learn how to craft good ads is to practice. So I learned my chops at my first advertising agency where I had lots of great mentors and that's when you know we spend hours coming up with 100 ideas for one client or 100 headlines for one ad right but because you put in the work and that's how you got I got a lot better especially in my early days yeah and as someone who's never actually been to Singapore can you say what is maybe let's say competitive landscape over there because as a student is there a big competition petition or I don't know, what is it like? I would say that Singapore is still,

we are rapidly evolving and we're rapidly changing and developing as a nation. Our priorities in schools are also shifting, and it has shifted massively over the past couple of years, right? However, there is still, of course, a rather strong sense of focus on education because at the end of the day, Singapore is a resource-scarced country. We don't have land, we don't have, you know, natural resources.

So what we have are the people in our country and our skill sets. And that's why education is very important, right? So, of course, getting that heads are at school is something that a lot of parents still are concerned about. You know, being able to have a degree to secure a job is something that is still very common in many families. but the great news is also in the past people could might not have appreciated for example the arts as much as

science, right? And you understand why because we have to really rely on certain skill sets for the country to evolve. However, in the recent years there have been an increasing shift in the kind of emphasis that we place on different

subjects or different skill sets. which is great because there are more people doing things that they love, things that are passionate about, and feeling like they have the ability and the support they need to grow in those areas. Yeah. So would you say that the level of education is on a high level? For example, when it comes to universities? Yes, I would say it's relatively high. And I think to your earlier question, is it a competitive place? I would say that it could be pretty competitive at certain levels, not all the time

but then again it's really about you as an individual what do you thrive in what subjects do you prefer and you don't always have to succeed in school to succeed in life Yes and what would be just to get an idea ratio of international students

compared to locals We have a very diverse community in Singapore. I think even when I was in university, we had a lot of exchange students. We had a lot of students who came to complete their degree here in Singapore. So I think there is a good mix. There are also international schools here, of course. But I think as a society, we are pretty cosmopolitan. And it's really interesting that we are in a space where we have enough exposure to both the East and the West. So a lot of people, even my own, like clients or partners from the US, when I talk to them, they are also surprised to know that,

you know, English is our first language. Well, a lot of people still don't know that. They are also surprised to figure out, like, that we have, like, such a huge consumption of, you know, Western media. And we do consume a lot of Western media as well as, you know, maybe Korean media, right? So there is an interesting balance of both East and West, and I think Singapore just sits in the middle between, you know, the different things of context.

It's like a perfect spot and a mix of all. Yeah, yeah. Then as you mentioned, English, out of course, did you speak other languages as well? So most of us speak two languages. We have our English as our main language, and then we have mother tongue. So for me, it would be Chinese. For my friends, it could be Malay or Tamil. However, I do with a caveat that my English is a lot better.

better than my mother tongue because, you know, I don't use my mother tongue as much anymore. I think it's still impressive, considering that it's completely different language with alphabet and just sounds different, so it's still impressive. Yeah, I think the great thing is, like, I'm very happy and blessed to be in Singapore, and I know that it's a country with many rules and structure, and for some of my friends who visit, they find it a bit perhaps rigid, right? because there's so many rules in place, right? But then it also helps us to create a structure in the system to grow and thrive.

And I think because of this structure, there's also stability. So that gives you a sense of security while you're still figuring things out and trying to scale in different ways. I was about to say that I'm someone who is quite interested in geography or geopolitics. And I had positive impression of Singapore because I've never been there about. would love to visit the place, and you already sold it to me as well. Yeah, you should. You might find it a little bit different from other countries in terms of our structure and how we operate, but still it's an interesting and very vibrant country.

Yeah, yeah. And especially where it's located, because it's in such a place that there are so many countries around and so many places to explore. So I just find it kind of perfect or very interesting. Please do. Please visit us one day. I would love to host you. And then coming back to your education, I wonder what kind of student were, if you were a diligent student who were studying and going after your dream, because it's only that you were going after your dream or the opposite, or what was it like?

So for me, I'm very results driven. I recently did like a motivator's test, right? So it actually allows you to figure out what are some of your key drivers for work. I for one am a very results driven person so I love accomplishing things especially like setting goals and achieving benchmarks

so even for me like LinkedIn I had a dream I said in one year I had to have 10k followers I was going to chase it regardless of whatever it took right and I managed to surpass that

and get to got to 30k so for me like the same rigour that I have on LinkedIn I see as a platform to grow is the same rigour that I put in my work, especially in subjects that I love. But I think that this is also something that works for me and not for everyone, because everyone has their own way of learning, growing, thriving, and experimenting with new things.

I agree. And I guess it's good to know for the future that you know what works for you and you can try to adjust the work based on that so that it just fits your style. Definitely. And then as you said before, working in that. agency when you finally got practical work, not just work from school. Did you then enjoy it, working that, or how was the experience? I loved it. I was like, this is where I'm meant to be. I thrived. I wish everyone experienced this. Yeah, I woke up and was like, oh, I'm so glad to be here.

This is a very special feeling, right? And the best part was I was surrounded by so, many incredibly talented and passionate people. So my mentors and my seniors were so incredibly brilliant in their work. They had such great work ethics and they were all equally passionate. And when you bring a bunch of super passionate people who really care about the work, you get really good results, right? And in my agency, it wasn't good enough to be good. We were meant or we were striving to be great. And that's the beautiful part about being. And in a team where everyone is aiming towards the same thing. It sounds like perfect culture,

something that every company would should strive to achieve. Because I feel like, as you said, if there are people that are passionate, working hard, striving to achieve the mission, it just positively influences you. So I feel or I understand what you're trying to say. I'm glad that you experienced that. Yeah, me too.

I also think that the one thing I learned there is also like, leadership, right? So if you have a good leader, you will have good people, but if you have a great leader, you can have great people. And even when things don't go as well, even when the ship feels like it's going into the storm, a great leader would hold a fort and would help everyone to feel assured and know that they can make it through together. And I think that spirit or that sense of leadership was something that I also greatly admired when I was in my agency. in the early days. Yeah, and I think definitely you can see it as a role model or someone to learn from

because then once you start your own agents or your own business, that's someone that you can learn from and apply by yourself. So definitely very helpful experience. And also, as you said before, that you were excited, that was a perfect place. I think that maybe that's something a lot of people experience in the beginning, but then the question is if they feel the same way after some time working there. So did it change for you? or did it stick?

Yeah, great question. So I think excitement is one thing, right? It's like a relationship, you know, when you first get like for someone, you're like, oh, this is so, it feels like caramel, feels like honey. And then after a while, you start thinking,

honey is too sweet or like bitter and a bit still. I think that happens for many people, especially for fresh graduates of people who are just starting their first job, right? There's that excitement. But after they grow, once you reach a certain level, then they will feel like their growth isn't, you know, as much as before. They feel like they need to do something else.

And they start looking at the things the job cannot offer them. And that happens to, you know, the best of us, right? You always want something else. But one thing I learned is you don't have to let your agencies or your company's growth hamper your own. So what I've learned over time is if the company isn't able to, at that point in time, give you opportunities. You can create those opportunities for yourself.

You don't have to wait for someone to give it to you. You can find your own ways, try something new, you know, do your own side hustle, right? And that's how you grow a lot faster. You keep up, you know, with the pace that you want to be at. I like it, the proactive mindset and take initiative by yourself. So does that mean that that led you to start your own agency? or did you do something while working in that one? Yeah, so I think at that point in time,

I was growing a lot as a creative, by the same time, I wanted to pick up new skillsets. So I wanted to figure out, because brand advertising is one thing, right? I was working with the big global brands, and it was really exciting. But at the same time, in my mind, I was thinking,

if you are a small startup, how are you going to have the funds to put out a mega campaign? that it's just not possible, right? And I wanted to figure out how do I actually help smaller companies or startups to scale? And that's when I took on a new kind of hat, right? I was thinking, how do I learn a new skill set? And that skill set is actually conversion copywriting. So I started to watch YouTube videos. I started to read books. No one was going to teach me in an agency setting, because those are not their skill sets. So I had to figure out, how do I have to? How do I? pick up this new skill, right? So, wow, I was listening to audio, audiobooks, watching YouTube

videos, just reading and reading and reading and buying books and like figuring it all out. And then I had to test myself to see if I could actually make it work. So I started going on Fiverr and Upwork to see if I could, you know, take on freelance projects. And my first gig on Fiverr, I think it was a $5 project and I was trying to bid for it. Because I had to start somewhere, right? Yeah, it was gross. And for that $5 project, right, I took one and a half weeks to write one piece of coffee for $5. Like that was literally where I started.

And it was nerve-wracking because I was hungry for the opportunity, but humble enough to say, you know what, it's $5, I'm still going to do it and still put my heart into it. And then still had to, I was still also afraid that the client would think it's. not good enough because I was also doubting my own abilities. So then I had to, I wanted to make sure that I delivered the best to my abilities, right? That's why I spent so much time on just a small project. But this also then led me to grow because I was hungry to learn, hungry enough to try and hungry enough to say yes to any opportunity. And that also accelerated my own growth. Yeah, yeah. And did you then, based on this experience, continue with working as a

freelancer on your Fiverr or Upwork? Yeah, so that was when I started to explore like, how do I get new clients, how do I work on new projects? So while I was doing my day job, which already took up a lot of time, because, you know, in advertising, you work long hours, late nights, weekends, and I took on, I had a day job class, other side hustles, which meant that I barely did anything else. So, so. Barely even slept. The early years were harder, much harder. Of course, but I was willing to put in the work to get to where I am today, right? So that's the hustle right there, putting in the grind, putting in the hours. And that's how I slowly learn how to do conversion copywriting.

I slowly learn how to pitch to clients. I slowly learn how to close a deal. I slowly learn how to negotiate a contract. All these skills that's nobody's going to teach you, right? You're going to figure it out by yourself. But there are essential skills that you need to pick up, you know, alongside. your main skill set if you want to do your own thing. And let me ask you, coming back or sticking with the working on Fiverr or Upwork,

I've never tried that, but I know how competitive it is because there are so many people trying to offer services, you know, lower prices, better quality, this and that. So have you got any advice, tips or tricks, how to stand out from the crowd and maybe so that clients picks you over the others? Yes, so I have two tips, right. one of which is if you're on Fiverr or Upwork, provide massive value. So bring more to the table than anyone else.

Like, pitch them not just with one small, like one liner. Show them what you can do for them. Flash it out on the deck. Do more, right? Because clients always appreciate it when, you know, someone is willing to put in the work even before they pay anything. And they're like, wow, this person really took the effort. that's unique to us, right?

So do more, deliver more value. Give more at the start, right? Until you build out your profile. The second thing I would say is build your personal brand on LinkedIn. This is something I wish I had done years ago. Like, I should have started earlier, right? Because if you're able to build a personal brand, you're attracting inbound needs.

You're not asking for a job. You're getting people who are really, interested in your content and saying, work with me. That is 10 times easier than sending out 100 messages on Fiverr and hoping somebody says yes. And that's a difference between, you know, attracting inbound versus pitching outbound. Yeah. Just when you said that, I was thinking, oh my God, I feel the same. I should have started it earlier as well.

Are you looking to elevate your online presents? Check out trial blessed our digital marketing agency. Whether it's standing out on social media, crafting a stunning new website or developing impact visuals, Trailblazed has got your back. Visit Trailbased.digital and reach your online potentials a day. So the question is, I was about to ask a bit later, but I will ask now, when did you discover LinkedIn? You can say both. When did you discover that there is not like LinkedIn and when did you start treating it more seriously? So LinkedIn was something I already had an account on back in my advertising days while I was looking for a job. I knew it was important, but I didn't really see the value of it. It was just more of a job hunting platform for me. But one year ago, actually just last year, I decided to take LinkedIn seriously because I launched my own copywriting consultancy, right? Close with me. And at that time, I was struggling to find new clients and new leads. And

And being thrown into the deep end of the pool and without a day job, then that I had to figure out how to survive. I was like, I have to do something about it. And that's when I initially for six months, I promised I really, really didn't want to touch LinkedIn. I was like, I know it's a platform, but I don't want to touch it. I'll be judged by my ex-colleges. My bosses are there.

Everyone's going to see my content. They're going to think I'm a fake influencer. What am I going to do? I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. And that was everything that was all right time. And I was like, ah. But six months into launching my consultancy,

I knew I had no choice because I had to do something, right? Otherwise, I'm going to be struggling to find leads. So that's when I started saying, you know what? I'm just going to comment to it. I took two weeks to craft my first post on LinkedIn. and when I hit that enter button, it was with great reluctance, a lot of fear and an impending sense of doom. So when that post went up, I said something like, I hate posting on LinkedIn, but I'm going

to do it anyway. That was my first step towards committing. So how was the feedback for that first post? Surprisingly, really decent. At that point in time, I think I still had some ex-colleges. They knew I was doing my own thing. So I think they were really. supportive in that sense.

No, that's nice. Yeah. But after that first post, of course, everything went downhill, right? Because nobody cares about you, what you do, what you have to say. And then you have to start building from there. And where are you thinking about other platforms,

whether it's on top of LinkedIn or instead of LinkedIn? Yeah. So before LinkedIn, I did try going on TikTok for a while. For one month. I posted once a day, every single day for 30 days straight. because I wanted to give TikTok a shot. I thought that it would give me, you know, ability to maybe have more visibility

because it's the later trending platform, right? But I soon realized that TikTok wasn't the right platform for me because my target audience who are founders, CEOs, they aren't probably on TikTok as much. And when they're on TikTok, they're not in the space to hire anyone. They're there to engage with fun content, right? whereas when you're on LinkedIn, your headspace is different. You're here to learn.

You're here to build connections. You're here to establish, you know, work relationships. So that's why it's a much better platform for anyone who is looking to work with founders and business owners to be on as compared to other platforms. I agree. It makes complete sense. And then from your freelance work on Fiverr, what was the transition that led you to start in your own business? So the transition, so between my agency days to consulting, I also did another growth marketing stint at a startup. Oh, nice.

And a fun story was that I was hired as a growth marketer. And I wanted that role because I would have been learning from a growth marketing lead. So funny story, on day one that I joined, he quit. So it was me being thrown into another deeper end of the pool and then figuring it out. But I was really thankful. The best way how to learn, I guess. Yeah, just learn just do it, right?

So I'm a person who learns by trying, right? So I guess it was also a good thing in the end because I had the autonomy to make decisions, to run the show and then to just lead the go-to-market entry in Hong Kong, which is again something I've never done I've never been to Hong Kong prior to that I had no idea what to do in that space but because of this opportunity I grew so much and the company together

grew with us so it was a brilliant opportunity to stack my skillsets so now I had I had advertising creative strategy I had growth marketing I had conversion copywriting and I felt like I was ready to launch my own consultancy and when I launched my consultancy that's when AI came along

so I had to stack AI to my arsenal and then with LinkedIn I had to learn personal branding so I would say that I have many skill sets not because I chose to but because they were all necessary in order for me to grow

it sounds like a really powerful mix because as you say it's obviously quite a lot, a lot of learning but all those areas considering must be just amazing consultants and AI and on top of it. It sounds awesome.

Yeah, I think one thing that I learned is, don't be afraid to learn. But the second thing also is, you need to stack your skillsets. So it's not, I didn't learn like finance, you know, or like operations, engineering and copyrighting. Because those skillsets wouldn't mix, right? So in my case, I was very intentional about stacking the skill sets.

Because if I wanted to help my clients to convert more clients, right? Then that would mean stacking skill sets in similar. complementary areas that I know would ladder up to my final goal. So if you're thinking about building a new skill set, I will always ask you, what is your final goal and how do you work towards it? Yeah. And let me ask you, because before in the beginning, when we spoke about, let's say there are expectations from the culture for you to follow more traditional areas such as becoming

a doctor or law or something like that, did you then experience any kind of negative feedback or something like that because you are pursuing this type of career? I would say that for myself, no, because I was always a bit of a black sheep. I was just a little bit different. A little bit better, doing strange things all the time, coming out with new ideas. But I do have to say that sometimes it can be a slightly lonelier journey for entrepreneurs in Singapore. I'm glad I found LinkedIn because that allowed me to connect with other founders and, you know, business owners, which then makes me feel like, okay, there are people on the same journey. But in the beginning, when I first started, I guess the people around me were in more

stable jobs as well. So it's a little bit harder for them to understand the struggles of being an entrepreneur or like trying to do your own thing, because people will ask like, why are you working so hard, you know, you can just get a stable night to five. Why are you spending your weekends working? Like, they don't understand the reason. But my why comes from my internal motivation to build things, to try things, to break things, and then to see them succeed. So that's the thing that continues to do with you.

Yeah, yeah. And you still have this learning mindset, which are open to new opportunities, new adventures, and learning? Yeah, definitely. So I love to learn skill sets that, you know, add value, right? So I'm not great at math or science. And this is something that when I tried to learn that in school, I just didn't sit well for me.

But I love learning skillsets that I can lean into for things that I love. So this year, for example, I'm learning a new skill set for sales. I have not been a huge friend of doing selling before. I don't like putting myself out there. I prefer writing to convert, not having conversations. It's just not my thing, right? But I committed to putting in the reps for it. So I committed to putting in X amount of hours to learning how to sell, to having those conversations.

And that has got me from, you know, my consultation rates from what it was previously to now 5xing it and being able to charge that price confidently. Just because I learn a new skill set. So again, if you can learn something fun, and then apply it, you will see exponential growth. Yeah, that sounds great. I think that's the mindset and approach that we can learn from and get inspired by, so well done. Awesome.

Yeah. As you mentioned before, I would be curious, what was the, like a moment when you discovered AI and that is something that you want to include in your consultancy? Yeah, so like what I said, right, I launched my consultancy last year. And at the beginning of last, that's also when chat GPD

became popular, right? So my client actually sent me a message and he said, Audrey, you're going to be replaced. And then he literally sent me the link to chat GPD.

And I was thinking, is he joking or does he mean it? It sounds like he meant it, even though he put it in like a, you know, like a smiley face. I was about to ask you if it was serious. or if he was making fun of you. I think he was half serious.

But because of that message, it really got me to think, right? Because if you are doing your own thing, you need to know how things are evolving around you and how you're going to keep up. So I knew I had kind of like two options. One would be to fight the current and the other would be to write the type. So because of that message, I also decided to, you know what, I'm just going to learn how to use it and embrace it because I know it's a really powerful tool and if I can add it to my skill set, then it gives me an age. And that's why I started leveraging AI.

Yeah, that is really smart. And I, again, like the approach. And are there any, like a specific, let's say, resources or people or sources that you follow to stay up to date with the latest news, with the development, tools and everything? There are so many tools right now, right? and so many new updates. I honestly think that it is really hard to keep up with everything. But what you might want to do is like focus on your business use case. Then you work backwards, right? Because instead of me trying to learn like AI for design, AI for finance, AI for, you know, auditing.

Like I don't have to do all that, right? Because that is not my focus. My focus is how do I leverage AI to help me in copywriting and marketing? So I'm very specific in the tools that I look out for, in the developments that I want to know. And when something is, let's say, chat GPT just launched an update, right? What I would do is I would experiment with that update instead of just reading about it. Because it's one thing to read and be like, oh, it's faster, it has a bigger context window. But then what does it mean for your work, right?

So in order for you to understand, you need to apply. And then when you apply it, that's how you learn. And that's how you learn. know if something works for you or not. Yeah, I think that's just the best way how to find out, and I completely agree. What will be then some of your favorite tools that you use? So I love, of course, GPT, but it's not as good at copywriting anymore. It used to be one of the better tools.

Right now, Claude is a lot better at human-sounding copy. So I use Claude a lot. I also use a tool called U.com. So u.com allows me to tap on different AI models whether it's GPT, your llama, claw, Gemini, right?

So I can toggle between different models. I've never heard of it. Really? You need to explore. You should check it out. It's pretty cool. And the great thing is, you can create your own,

you know how chat GPT has their own GPDs? You can create your own custom assistance on you. based on different models. So I can create a bot on you with chat GPT powering it, or I can create another writing bot powered by cloth. And I have different use cases for different LLMs, which means that I'm actually building different tools with no coding experience,

just to serve a specific function. And that helps me to operationalize and systematize my work a lot faster. Yeah, working smart, not hard. Yeah. So my ideal, my dream is to be a solo prenea with a team of AI agents to help me get stuff that. That is what I'm working towards. When we live like in a sci-fi or something like that. It's possible.

I think it's about time. Yeah, yeah. And I think something that maybe some people struggle with, but how do you manage to find the balance between I, so that it doesn't sound too much like a robot, so that it still sounds like a human? So how do you manage to find the balance? Yeah, so one thing I always talk about, if you see all my content, you watch my videos, I always say human AI, you will never say that you'll never see me saying like just use AI for the sake of it.

I'm always saying it needs to be a combination of human and AI. The reason is if you're putting out AI content, there's 100% AI generated with no strategy, no thought, no refinement. you will, A, realize that your copy sounds very AI, like words like revolutionized, like, you know, bridging the, da-da-da-da-da, or like, it's not this, it's that, right? So you start to hear patterns, and that's very AI, right? So you obviously need to edit that or like prompt it again to remove all these words and phrases.

But the second thing is, if you have content without strategy, it doesn't work. So, for example, if you don't understand copywriting and you're not, an advertiser. What you would do is you would ask chat GPT to give you 100 headlines. But the problem is, how do you know which one of the 100 headlines is going to work? You don't know, right? So unless you're a copywriter who understands the psychology of persuasion, who understands your audience insights, then you can use AI to help you in the brainstorming process. But if you don't have a strategy and you're just asking it for the final output, you will realize that, you're not going to see the same types of results that a human AI copywriter can probably bring you.

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's important to focus on this or don't take it lightly because sometimes, if you've been, of course, you've been using AI regularly. So then you can spot when someone writes a post or something. You can spot that it's just copy and paste from GDP or something like that. And it's not going to lie. It doesn't look the best, of course. Yeah.

And one thing I would say is like Just because someone has chat GPT doesn't make them a good writer. In fact, I would argue that you have to learn how to be a good writer first before using chat GPT. That's really

how you have the foundation settled. Once you understand what is good copy, you know, then you can guide chat GPT to help you to craft good copy and get to the quality output that you're looking for. Yeah, I completely agree. agree. And I know that I asked you before about the resources, but can you name maybe some

favorite, I don't want to say influencers, but creators on LinkedIn that you follow and you just like their content, whether it's informative or valuable or just good to follow? Yeah. And there are so many that I can share. But if you're looking for, for example, AI training, Heather Muray does an amazing work. So she has her own online course where she brought together different experts to then share about, you know, the basics of using AI in different ways so that her content is brilliant. She also has lots of workshops going on. So check out her stuff. Rory Flynn is the king of Mid-Jarney. Everyone knows that. And I have spoken to him on my podcast before and I know how brilliant his mind is. So he sees visuals as systems,

which is why when he breaks it down, it's a very systematic process, and that's a skill set that not every creative would have. So Rory's content is also really good. I think the third person is my current technical partner I'm working with Jake George. So what Jake does is that he helps businesses streamline their operations with AI. I have worked with him to build my own AI tools and systems and processes. And I think what he shares is basically tools and systems, and skill sets that businesses can then use to really increase their productivity.

So he's coming in from a more technical background, but putting on the head of AI. So you can see that there are many people who are great in their views, right? But then just leveraging what they already know, and then they bring even more value to their audience. Yeah, that sounds perfect. I will check them out. And I think it's also good timing to tell the audience that if they want to find out or discover more, people that work in AI and are from LinkedIn scene to check out your podcast, right? So if you want to tell us more about your podcast and kind of try to promote it. Yeah, so I'm more than happy for you guys to also tune into the AI marketers podcast.

In that podcast, I'm very specific. I really only talk to people who are great in their fields, right, to pick their brains, right, to figure out how they're thinking about marketing. So whether it's like sales, automation, you know, content strategy, all sorts of things related to marketing. I invite guests to my podcast to figure out how they're thinking, how they're leveraging AI and how to actually use AI in your every single day. Yeah, I will make sure to edit to the show notes in case someone wants to have a look.

And Oji, you said before how you grew on LinkedIn. So I think that's something that everyone wants to hear. If you can reveal us your secrets, how did you manage to do that? Yeah. So like in a way, right, don't see LinkedIn as a social media platform. Sure it is. But you can also put on a different marketing heads and see LinkedIn as a media channel. So if you are a product, how do you stand out on the LinkedIn platform?

So imagine going to a vending machine and you see like, you know, all the different drinks, right? How does this soda drink make you feel that makes you want to, you know, put $1 to the machine? and get that soda can, right? Same idea. So if you're on LinkedIn, you're not just talking about yourself. You're talking about yourself in reference to everyone out there. So that's the first thing you have to know, right? LinkedIn is a platform.

You are the product. What is your unique positioning in this crowded market space? So when I entered LinkedIn, I came in with a strategy of saying, I want to own the AI copywriting space. Right. And that's why I started talking about AI and showing my expertise. and AI copywriting and tooling. So that's something that I own

because that was a space that no one occupied. Now, if you are trying to build your brand and you're saying, like, but Audrey, you know, like, so many people are doing this. There are so many coaches out there. I can't stand out. Yes, you still can.

And how do you stand out, right? One is A, you find something that is distinct about yourself. For example, if you're a coach and you have this, you know, winning framework that you use for all your clients. Use that winning framework as your end. anchor so that you are positioning yourself as the winner's coach, for example. So then already sets you apart from everyone else.

Or the other way is to niche down. So for example, if you are a coach, but you specialize in coaching female C-suits in the advertising space, right? Now you are very clear who's your target audience, and they are the only people you want to attract your profile, the only people you want to work with, and that also helps you to create a distinction. So your goal is to figure out your positioning.

Then once you figure out that positioning, you can create content around it that supports that positioning with a very clear content marketing strategy. I think you explained it perfectly. And I really like the metaphor with imagine the wending machine and you are the candle tries to stand out. Very well set. And would you be willing to share something about your posting strategy on LinkedIn, such as what type of content, what's the frequency? about the engagement? Don't post and pray. That's the last thing you should do, right, is to be like,

I'm just going to post something today and hope it works. And then you can, if you don't post about your breakfast with no intention, I know some people like to do that, it's okay on other social platforms. But on LinkedIn, I would ask you, what is your objective, right? If your objective is to drive needs for your business, I will ask, does that post help you to drive needs? If it doesn't, don't post. it, right? So be very strategic about what kind of content you put out. So there are people who

aim for just two to three posts a week and they're aiming for quality posts. And they're not aiming to grow their following. They're aiming to just have three quality posts, established themselves as a thought leader. And then they do like DM strategies. So they do outreach and they're like, hey, you know, I saw that you're doing this. This is what I work on. Then we have a chat. So those people are not aiming for following because all they need to do is to establish themselves as a frequent creator and a top leader. In my case, I'm aiming for quantity. So I'm playing the volume game. So I'm actually chasing numbers every every, every, every, every, every, every, I have a target. Yeah, every day, actually. Yeah. And for me, it's a numbers game because I have a productized

service called the LinkedIn Launchpad that I want to sell. In order for me to sell, productized service, I need Bolly. That's why I'm posting every single day, and I'm making sure that I have a mix of content from, you know, top of funnel content that drives visibility, like giveaways, all the way to mid of funnel content that showcases expertise, like videos where I explain certain things, and then bottom of final content like testimonials. So you can see here that I'm already building out content strategy with an objective in mind, with like the clear KPI that I'm chasing and then from there you can start thinking about conversion rates how do you optimize your processes what types of post works and what type of post doesn't so the whole thing is a system

and a framework of thinking instead of thinking of it as a platform where you're just posting stuff when you feel like it there is a strategy behind growth and if you understand strategy you can grow a lot faster. Yeah. And as we know, you already hit your target of 10k, you are far over and the year is not over yet. So what is your target till the end of the year? Oh, this is a spicy one. I would have aimed for 50k at the beginning of the year. I thought so. I knew it. That's because that's just a perfect target. Right. So, but I do recognize that the LinkedIn algorithm is changing slightly. A lot of creators have seen like a 40 to 60% drop in impressions. So for me, in order to combat that I'm posting more regularly than before,

like every single day, except for Sundays. And then that allows me to chase a little bit more. But at the same time, I'm not that obsessed about that number right now. Because even if you hit 50K, it doesn't mean that you're scaling your business. It just gives you greater visibility. So the only other thing you need to do is to make sure that you're also selling as you scale. Otherwise, you just be scaling your following, but not selling.

And that's a balance that I myself and also in the midst of optimizing. Yeah. What would be one or few pieces of advice that you would give to Audrey when she was starting on LinkedIn? Start earlier. If I could go back in time, I started years ago. I'm so late already. So, I mean, for anyone who hasn't started, it's not too late. You still have this window of opportunity, right?

You must remember that as a social platform, it's going to become more and more saturated as more creators come. So right now we're in this beautiful window where there's still room to grow and you can be one of the 1% creators to grow faster. So as more people come on board, you're going to see, you know, it's going to be harder and harder to get results. So the first advice to start earlier. The second advice that I would give to myself is don't just chase the vanity matrix. Because initially I was only chasing lights, engagement, following. The real matrix that matter is how many chats are you having in the DMs? How many people are you hopping on calls with?

How many people are you closing? Do you have a productise offer? Is your offer scalable? Does your offer have a product market feed? So there are so many other things that people don't realize they have to consider when building your business on LinkedIn. So that's the second thing. And I guess the third thing for me is also to say,

don't be afraid to take time off because you can experience burnout on this platform. It's not easy to always show up. It's not always easy to be responding and to replying to comments. So you need to protect your own mental space as well. So for example, on big ends, I try to zone out completely and I come back again on Mondays. So that allows me to have a bit of a braver as I grow and allows me to turn this into a marathon and not a sprint. Yeah, that sounds perfect. And obviously, big part of LinkedIn is also engagement,

which takes time. And looking at your numbers, I cannot imagine how much time it must take. What is your time management and how do you manage everything? So there is a system to engagement as well. I used to spend too much time, eight hours a day, like just checking my profile and commenting and liking. You don't have to do that if you know how to do it strategically.

So for me, I block out a certain time in my day to do engagement and comments and replying to DMs. Because you just think of it as a time block, right? So 30 minutes before you post, you engage with, you know, comments from the previous day, you engage with other creators. Then 30 minutes after you post, you engage with your own comments, you engage with, again, fellow creators. This strategic window then gives you visibility and allows you to support your community, who will then support you. You have to time your post at the same window where other creators in your niche are awake and active and posting. That's how you leverage engagement in a very organic manner. Yeah, it sounds like the whole science.

There is a science to it. There is strategy and there is science to it. And as you said before about the importance of recovery and take time off, what is it that you do in your free time or what helps you to, what helps you to recover. So this is going to sound very lame, but I love looking at the sky. So I, in my phone, right, I have so many, it looks like a creeps phone because I have so many photos of like the evening skyline, like, so strange, right? But, but to be fair, it helps me to detox. So sometimes what I do is I just sit on a bench. And I just blank out and I stare at the sky. It was like, wow,

the sky is really lovely today. But that helps me to detox. Yeah. And do you do like, I don't know, any sports or do you have any hobbies that you enjoy doing? Yeah, so I'm pretty active. I try to work out almost every day, right? So I either go to the gym or I spin or I take a walk or I go and, you know, I head out for a cycle or a hike. And that keeps me active. But also, what I does is it decompresses my mind when I need to and also allows me time to think. So sometimes what I do on walks is I also talk to chat GPT on my phone and I bounce ideas with it. I'm like, hey, what do you think on my salesmen? strategy. And then I'll just have conversations, right? Because sometimes my ideas flow a lot better when I'm moving. And being able to have time for myself to think really helps me in my own process. It's a great point that you mentioned because I feel the same. Sometimes I feel like when I go to gym or when I cycle, that's actually when I think about things and I got the ideas. So there's something on it. So yeah, it makes sense.

help you have. With chat GPT as your friend, you get your ideas down. You don't forget them. So try that next time. And I know we haven't discussed the business as much, but is there like a specific target client that you work with? Yeah. So my personal business model is a bit different from most people's models.

I don't believe in following the agency model. I don't believe in following just like a pure, you know, solo preneous model. So my model is Soloprania model with a productized service element. So my core audience that I work with as a consultant are like startups, skill ups. I do consulting work with them. I do copywriting, growth marketing. I help them to really grow. But that part of it is not as scalable because it requires a lot of me.

But I really enjoy the process. It brings me joy. So the second part of my business is a more productized service. It's called the LinkedIn Launchpad, and I think I mentioned it in this podcast. Basically, what we have is an AI tool, a LinkedIn virtual mastery hub, and a done-for-you design system, and it's a product-time service where anyone trying to go on LinkedIn can just purchase, and we'll set them up for success, you know, in just a couple of like two weeks time. So that allows someone who is really new to the platform to quickly get started without having to struggle, as I did, in the earlier part of my journey.

as everyone did in early journeys. So save time, save money and save headache. Yeah, you don't have to go through the pain, guys. This is it. And Audrey, before we finish, because or thanks to your mindset, I would assume that you also read books or any helpful resources. So can you recommend, let's say, a book that helped you that in some way was, you know, good to recommend for others?

Yeah. I absolutely love this book. by Robert Chialdini. You probably might have heard it. It's called the psychology of persuasion. I use it in every single aspect of my life. It's beautiful. So, of course, as a marketing gig,

I love understanding the psychology of my customers and how do I make them convert. And the fun thing is, what you can do is once you understand the principles of persuasion, you can apply it even in sales checks, you can apply it in negotiations, you can apply it on your pitch decks,

You can apply it in your emails, your landing pages. There are so many ways to apply this, right? But more than that, you can also then feed it into chat GPT or an AI tool, and then get it to help you incorporate these techniques in different walks of life. And then that itself is how you have the human AI combination. You understand with your human mind, the principles. Then you use AI for new ideas on how to execute with it. I believe I read the book a long time ago.

so it's a good idea for me to refresh. I feel like I don't remember much. It's a great book. Do it. And then, Audrey, is there any final message, something you would like to share or something I should have asked you and did not? I think if there's one final message for me,

to anyone who is listening and just on their own entrepreneurial journey, on their own career paths, I think one thing I would love to tell you is don't be afraid to try and fail and learn. Like if there is one skill set that has helped me on my own journey, is this ability to be able to pick up a new skill,

try it, test it, and then fail fast, fail hard, and then go again. Because that is how you will be able to progress. And you don't have to feel like you have to rely on, you know, your company or an organization to secure your job or your future. Because if you have the skill sets, then you are always secure. It's just like you know that you can find a way. as long as you keep learning. So that's a mindset that has helped me

and I hope it helps our listeners to me. And I think you demonstrated this mindset perfectly throughout our chat. So I only recommend it and it's inspiration for me as well. And we discussed it already such as your LinkedIn or your company or the lunchpad, but are there any additional

resources where people can follow you, where they can find you or how to market yourself? If you would like to find out more about what I do, visit my company's website, www.closewithcopy.com.co. Right? So over there, I talk about how I do consulting work and I work founders as well as business owners

to develop strategies to grow their business using copyrighting and growth marketing strategies. And then on the other hand, if you are trying to build your personal brand on LinkedIn and you're struggling to get started, the LinkedIn LodgePet is a lifesaver. I promise you, it's something that I would have built for myself. and I wish I had one year ago.

So that is something I would love for you to check out. Again, if you need it, the link is on my LinkedIn. And then you can feel free to follow me at Audrey Chair on LinkedIn. Yeah, and everything will be in the show notes. So Audrey, I want to say huge. Thank you. I really enjoyed it. Your positive and hardworking mindset inspired me.

And it was just pleasure to get to know you behind LinkedIn or outside of LinkedIn. So thank you so much. it was really valuable to me and I will keep following and supporting. Thank you so much to you too, Thomas. Thanks for listening to Produce by with Tomer. Check out show notes for all the links and don't forget to like, subscribe and leave your feedback. Speak soon.