Produced By - Content Marketing Unleashed: Going Beyond LinkedIn | #60: Robin Hanna

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello, Robin, thank you for joining us today and welcome to the show.

Starting point is 00:00:22 Hi Thomas, thanks for having me. So Robin, can you please introduce yourself? I'm Robin, I'm a content marketing advisor and originally I'm a marine biology. So a little bit of a crazy, colorful background, but I basically married my love for analytics and my love for creativity, which was a little blindsided by science and scientific approaches. And, yeah, went into the field of content marketing because that's where both worlds meet quite nicely.

Starting point is 00:00:59 So, sorry, did you say married biologist? Yeah. Can you introduce it a bit? I'm not sure what to imagine. Okay, right. So most people imagine with a marine biologist, you know, just taking care of dolphins. But I mean, it's not that far from the truth, but there is also just, you know, counting little crabs or weighing algae and just understanding sort of how ecosystems work. And yeah, so that's basically what I specialized in back in the day.

Starting point is 00:01:36 So I did a master's in marine tropical ecology, which was, you know, it was like really fun. It just sort of touches upon my sense of adventure also. And I look fondly back to expeditions to Indonesia where we were sort of investigating the mud in mangrove. in order to identify how the nearby oil of a finery was impacting, so the local fauna and little animals and plants inside the mud. And yeah, so that was really rewarding work. And so it's like great adventure. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:02:23 Yeah. So like, you know, you got really ingrained in different cultures that were just, you know, very far away from the mass tourism part. And we involved a lot of students as well from the local universities in the project. So it was like a really, really great place to be. But for me, eventually I had to just, I had to be honest with myself and say, like, I was working with people who were so good at this that they, you know, deserve to be there and I felt I didn't. So, you know, imposter syndrome really starts early.

Starting point is 00:03:07 I basically decided that I really have a creative side that I needed to nurture more. Even on this expedition, I, you know, I bought like a really big camera in order to document the whole thing. And so I made like videos about it and all this kind of thing, which isn't really part of a science expedition, you know, and it's not part of a scientific work, really. And, but I found that that's something that I really need to have in my life. So eventually I, I sort of married the two a little bit by becoming like a science journalist. So I started working in science research centers, large places in Germany, like the, like the, like the geoma. called in Kier, which is like one of the biggest marine research centers in Germany and then

Starting point is 00:04:04 nature, the GFZ, the German Research Center for Geosciences, which also developed like the tsunami warning system and stuff. So they were like really big places. I was really happy to be in. But it was a great sort of start to my career effectively as a communicator of really difficult subjects because, you know, all the scientists that were working on their projects and who were devising all these great ideas, you know, not many of them were very good at transporting that information. So they needed somewhere like me to take complex topics and just pass them on to the public. Yeah. So, but, you know, as great as these places are for the advancement of science and, and you know, for humanity, they're not great for somebody who's like really into working in a modern area.

Starting point is 00:05:03 And with like modern tools and these kind of things that you get or that you are able to use as a as a marketer on a high level. So that's why I then sort of left and went into the private sector more. And yeah, I've been there ever since. like I've been working in the sort of Berlin startup scene for a bit. Sorry to interrupt, but when you decided to pursue this path of biology, is that something we've been always interested in, like biology or nature animals?

Starting point is 00:05:40 Yeah, it was, it's something that, you know, when you're, you know, at the end of your school time, you just kind of are, I mean, at least for me, it was like, what am I good at? I looked at like what am I enjoying at school? You know, like where am I getting better grades than anywhere else? Just because I'm not really trying too hard, you know, just to get good grades. And that was basically natural sciences.

Starting point is 00:06:08 So so it was like, it was that. And yeah, it just felt really like a natural move to go there. So yeah. And I don't know regrets. I also forgot to ask you before if you can tell us more about where we come from and something about your background. Like, what was it like growing up? Sure. So I live in Berlin right now and I'm actually also from Berlin.

Starting point is 00:06:38 So this is where I grew up in the 80s. And so that's my age right there. Was it in western part or eastern part? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess that's important to say in that time. So I grew up in the 80s in West Berlin.

Starting point is 00:06:59 And like I was fortunate enough that my mother is from Northern Ireland. So I grew up with both languages. And yeah, so that's also why I sort of left Germany fairly early and started studying and going to school abroad in England and in Wales. and so that's sort of like that brought me around a little bit and I moved around and I then came back to Berlin and I've just been here ever since. It's one of those things you just don't, you try to leave and you get you love it and you get fed up with it and then you want to go and you always come back and he's because this place really doesn't stop giving

Starting point is 00:07:47 and it's a real challenge like I think any big city is. But for me, I really need nature close by. I need to be able to lead a good lifestyle. And that includes basically just not being completely choked by financial issues. as challenging as that might be sometimes, you know, like there's always, as I am now sort of like a self-employed marketing advisor. So that comes with like periods of just, you know, dread. Am I able to, you know, really keep my pipe by and full? Am I able to make enough money to like pay the rent and this kind of thing? So it's a real challenge to keep planning.

Starting point is 00:08:47 but I don't you know it's still a place where that I just call home and that's very invaluable for me so you're playing to stay there or to move somewhere else right now as I said as there's always these ideas I mean there's some people that I know have you know on LinkedIn that have just decided to to move to places that are you know, more beautiful, weather-wise, and cheaper to live and cheaper taxes and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, I look at that and I'm like, well, that's a great idea. That's a good move. You know, that makes total sense, especially if you're like self-employed and you kind of need to watch every penny. But most of these people really come from countries where that is really hard

Starting point is 00:09:40 to do. So like, they'll come from the UK or they'll come from the States. And, And, you know, those places are notoriously hard to have a good life quality, you know. So that move really makes a lot of sense. You know, it's just one of those things. You're just like, well, I bogged down. I'm totally have nowhere to go. And there's this other place where I have complete freedom. And Berlin sort of just gives the best.

Starting point is 00:10:14 of all worlds effectively. So it does come with a higher cost than living in Cyprus, for example, or anywhere else where you have like good, sort of like a good infrastructure and, you know, decent lifestyle and all this kind of thing. But I like being able to just go outside the door and in 10 minutes I have like amazing art, for example. I, you know, I can take a five-minute bike ride and a moment of a moment of. my 50 meter pool outdoors and it doesn't it cost me 25 euros a month and so it's it's it's it's it's for me

Starting point is 00:10:52 it's like I need to have like a real reason yeah go anywhere and to to drop this lifestyle right now so far it's going okay I don't know yeah like I've never been there so I was curious and as you said you've been to quite a few places whether it was when you were younger can you study there or during your work. So it sounds like you've got something to compare to. So it makes sense to me that Berlin just, you know, based on your experience, sounds like a good place to be. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:28 I mean, it's not without the challenges, you know. It's the, that's, that's true. But of course, there are always pros and cons everywhere. Yeah, exactly. But all in all, it's, yeah, I love it here. again, I'm 43 now. I spent most of my life here and I still discover new stuff all the time. And, you know, there's so many boundaries that are being pushed here that is just crazy.

Starting point is 00:12:02 Even from a professional point of view as well, like, at the beginning, I thought it was really annoying because I spent a lot of time in Hamburg, for example, because, you know, when I was living, and working for this research center. I was, you know, living in Hamburg for a while. And I could see the real difference to Berlin in terms of the living conditions, having a certain life standard was more challenging there. So people would, like, push each other more. So that was the big difference back then. And I'd come to Berlin and people would just kind of try out things and, you know, totally

Starting point is 00:12:43 fail. And at the time, I was like, well, this is ridiculous. You know, like, you can, I don't know, you can nail underpants to the wall and call it art and then say like, that's my living now. And, you know, in Hamburg, it was like the world's best illustrator is sort of clambering over each other to like get better and be better. And the result was just insane. So, but my position on that has changed since then. because effectively Berlin as a playground is so valuable because people, you know, that's why startups there's one reason why startups were like so big in Berlin at the beginning because you were

Starting point is 00:13:31 able to try out stuff. You were able to like fall on your face and learn quickly and then, you know, reiterate and keep going. And if it failed, it failed, but then you knew, you know, it was data. Yeah. And, you know, at the time, I didn't know that that was like a really, really valuable business strategy. Yeah. And I guess it also, because of the local startup scene, it helps to attract the right people, which allows you to, you know, build your connections, get in touch with the right people and grow yourself as a person as well. Exactly. So the network here is really great. There's really good sort of just free. events as well that you can just join like networking events and that are really valuable. And so there's, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a good place to be professionally as well. Yeah. So then

Starting point is 00:14:26 coming back to your career when you decided to switch from our previous job to, uh, focusing on your creative side. Can you tell us more about how you are starting off. Yeah. Um, um, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll be it was, uh, uh, I'll be honest. It was a bold move. I didn't really know at the beginning what I was getting into. So all I had was some journalistic writing experience. And I had my bilinguality. And so this was 2014, I think, yeah, that I started branching out into just my own little thing for the first time.

Starting point is 00:15:10 And, you know, so I started getting clients, just, you know, small clients here and there, just some texts for websites, some translations here and there. And, you know, just as a tip for listeners who might be in the same situation, it's a really good idea to go to, like, networking events and just find a place where, you know, we had a, we had sort of like the regularly occurring breakfast. session where people would pitch their ideas. And that's just great because, you know, you get breakfast, but and you listen to pitches, but also these people who are pitching stuff, they need your help, probably. You know, like in all likelihood, they, they are, you know, starting off something and they need some help. And you might be able to get in there.

Starting point is 00:16:06 So that's kind of what I did. And I just got more and more experience. And more and more clients. And then eventually, after a few years, of just doing this, like, pretty much full time. And I really understood what content marketing is at that point. You know, like, I really grew into just grew from just texting to understanding that these texts are effectively driving something. You know, they're there for a purpose, not just for like, you know, for the sake or so that it's not empty yeah it's like it's not just like there's there's text on the website

Starting point is 00:16:47 you know and and and all that but there's actually you know there's copyrighting principles that you can use to persuade people to buy things and so therefore this is valuable and so you know text and writing were sort of at the center of everything that i was doing and and that was it sorry was it in english or german or both It was both, yeah. So that was sort of like my unique selling point effectively. Because, like, you know, I was in Germany and I was in Berlin, but Berlin is so, you know, the tech world here is just bilingual completely because it's very international.

Starting point is 00:17:29 Yeah. So effectively, you know, there'll be German companies that have, you know, their working language is English. But it really helps because, you know, know, they put out German and English content because they're a German company. So they needed, you know, both. So, you know, that was my sort of, you know, I was able to create the content and translate it at the same time.

Starting point is 00:17:53 Today, obviously, with like translation services like Deepel or, or even chatypity, I won't mention Google Translate because it sucks usually. But, you know, things have just changed so much. And I'm sure we can talk about that too. you know, the challenges that people face when, you know, that creator's face and writers face and these kind of things. But at that time, it was, you know, for me, it was a blessing to be picked up by an e-commerce software as a service.

Starting point is 00:18:29 So this company just basically had a head hunted me. And it's the first time that I was approached on LinkedIn, basically. Now it happens all the time, you know, like you just get this. you know, headhunters sort of approaching you and telling you about their newest jobs and those kind of thing. But back then it was like

Starting point is 00:18:48 the first time I'd ever been asked like that and I was like, I felt very privileged. So was it based on your content or your overall presence in there? See, that's the thing. I did not actually start any content on LinkedIn until last year. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:19:09 And this was, was in 2018, right? So this is like quite a long time ago. And I just, they, I, you know, all I had was a very basic LinkedIn profile with like, you know, I just treated it as a CV effectively. And they were just looking for somebody that, you know, was able to create content in German and English. And that's sort of like, you know, it was right there on the ticket. And so we got into conversations and, and, and, and, and, and that's that's really the place where I cut my teeth. So I'm very, very grateful that I got some experience in sort of like with a company and working in a team.

Starting point is 00:19:56 That was like all high level, very like a lot of investment was made into the marketing team. So even though it was a small company, they understood that content, marketing is the one thing that was driving their revenue more than anything. And that's like for me, it was super green flag because it's, it's really difficult to attribute content to revenue effectively. So a company who put some effort into understanding that really means that they, they've spent time to figure out their strategy to a degree that,

Starting point is 00:20:40 valuable for the customer, you know? Let me just break that down for a little bit, because it's a bit complicated. I was going to say if you can introduce a bit to maybe what you were doing there. Well, you can understand that this is a company who were pioneers in terms of Amazon sales. So this was, it was a company that was aimed at. large sellers and vendors on on Amazon and their product was an all in one solution where they could you know clients could run their ads through that they could run their inventory through it and they could use basically write their entire product description all inside that tool and so the

Starting point is 00:21:34 content that they were producing for their blog was all around that so you can imagine that perhaps like a keyword like Amazon SEO, meaning, you know, how do you write the product description so that it is picked up not only by Google, but when you start your search on Amazon, that it kind of pops up at the top. You know, so like the way you have a search result on Google, you have a search result on Amazon, and people wanted to make sure that their product sort of really pops. and at the time they didn't really have any competition around content. So, you know, anything that they published was lapped up by the community because they were like, you know, people were like, finally someone kind of explains to me how I can

Starting point is 00:22:29 do my business on Amazon and, you know, in a really detailed step-by-step guide, sort of way and that brought them a lot of trust you know so people were like well any company who understands amazon this well and is able to explain it to me as a customer well they must have a really great product you know sort of um and so that's part of it you know um you it's it's called nurturing effectively so people would then either start a trial direct or download something, leave their email address, and then sort of get nurtured through email sequences, you know, until they're ready to buy because it's a high, you know,

Starting point is 00:23:19 ticket product, so they need some time and this kind of thing. But that's sort of where I came in, actually, at that point, because they'd been doing this for a few years and they'd had a lot of success. But in the meantime, there were a lot of, you know, competitors coming up. And that meant that, you know, suddenly they were being overtaken and they didn't really understand why. And I came in, so I came in not only as a content producer, but also as a strategist.

Starting point is 00:23:55 Yeah. Because I could put some fresh eyes on it and say like, look, well, the reason why your competition is overtaking you is because your content just doesn't look very appealing. So you have a wall of text here. You know, it's, it's, it's quite obvious that this isn't going to work. It might not be to you because it's worked before. But the way you should do it is basically break it up. You need to put like your keywords into the subheaders.

Starting point is 00:24:26 You need to put some imagery in there. You need to make it longer than the competitor articles, this kind of thing. So, and then I, you know, I, I, I would analyze, I did an audit. So that's also like some sort of the, the steps that I also take now. The first, everything starts with an audit. So you try to understand what the company's been doing before, what's worked, what hasn't, you know, where are there pitfalls? And then based on that, you kind of go into the discovery and you try to understand what

Starting point is 00:25:04 they're trying to do, what their goals are, and how well they understand their customer. Yeah, it sounds like a good job because not only it is something that you were working on, something you enjoyed, but at the same time, being part of this company that was, as you said, kind of a pioneer, so being part of this mission, must have been excited. Yeah, it was pretty cool, actually, yeah. It did develop quite quickly as well. It was, you know, it grew from like 40 to 100, all completely bootstrapped at the beginning, which was like a really nice thing. So it was the CEOs, it was like a double team as CEOs.

Starting point is 00:25:51 And they were just, they were young and they were full of juice. But without being, you know, tech bros or anything like that. You know, they were just really together. They're really smart. And they understood that there was like a market that they, you know, a challenge that the market was facing that they were able to solve in a very unique way. And their main, one of their main things that was very authentic as well was that they wanted a good team culture. So this wasn't like some sort of like, you know, fake idea. because they read it somewhere,

Starting point is 00:26:34 they have to have a good team culture. This was just ingrained in their characters. And they knew that a good team culture would just basically make a great company. And so that meant that everybody they hired was just a really awesome person. And not only really smart, but just really fit in really well.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And so basically this explosion engraving growth was fast, but it was still so great. Yeah. The people were just awesome. And unfortunately, it reached the peak in when Corona hit suddenly. Oh, what a time. Yeah. Real bummer.

Starting point is 00:27:20 So, and my contract sort of ran out in that time as well. And it was up for renewal. And we had big plans and everything and that, but they just basically cut the entire company in half, like top to bottom. half the managers had to go, you know, half of the office assistants it was just all a mess. And so that was basically, you know,

Starting point is 00:27:42 I was then left floating a little bit. If you want to boost your online presents, check out our digital marketing agency called Trailblazed. You can also add in a skill share course called the 10 tips on how to succeed in your creative career, which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our week. weekly newsletter called Creative Spotlight to stay up to date with the show and more links are in the

Starting point is 00:28:10 show notes thanks and out of curiosity what was company's fate after the COVID um that well they they managed to stay aflo for a bit um they try to reposition themselves with uh you know other other products and breaking up their all in one thing um but they got they got purchase just basically. Yeah. Yeah. So this, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:37 the people are still there. Things have changed. But they've been, they've been acquired. Yeah. And what was then your journey when COVID happened and your contract wasn't ringing? It was a very,

Starting point is 00:28:54 very messy, interesting thing. COVID for everybody, you know. So I didn't, you know, it came out of the blue and, um,

Starting point is 00:29:03 For me, I took stock and I was like, well, what did I like about the job? And what were the things that I would like to see more of in another job? So I became quite picky when it comes to that because I saw, like I said, the values of the company culture were so important. And it meant that I really enjoyed working as an employer. in a good team. That's something that I wanted. What I didn't want was just a job for job's sake, if you know what I mean. I mean, this is a very privileged position, you know.

Starting point is 00:29:46 But, you know, it's something that I wanted to invest in, if you want, because it meant also kind of, you know, entering a time of insecurity, you know, not applying to any job, just taking any job, but only wanting the right one. It's a risky thing. But for me, it was the right move. And effectively, that also meant that I started with companies that weren't a great fit. So I worked for like a place that was like a, they developed a software for, organizing electronic vehicle fleets, which was an interesting subject for me, you know,

Starting point is 00:30:40 personally being interested in like the advancement of humankind and all this, but for me as a content marketer, it didn't really have any good work in it. So it was, you know, the challenge wasn't there. And, you know, they were going in a totally different direction from a content market. marketing perspective. So that didn't work out. And then the last thing I worked in after that was like a private university. So again, relevant to like my origins of, you know, being close to education and loving art as well.

Starting point is 00:31:21 So this universities, you know, had a lot of subjects from ranging from anything from business to piano lessons effectively. So they had like the area that I worked for the entire university, it's a German-wide network of universities actually. But where I worked was, you know, at the music school. So that was great. It was beautiful. Like every day I'd, you know, I'd go in the office and there'd be like people singing and, you know, playing electric guitar somewhere.

Starting point is 00:31:52 And it was all about sort of, again, you know, figuring things out. And so it was very, very nice. environment in a way. But unfortunately, again, it had the same challenges as the, you know, of academia, very, very reduced sort of marketing level. And, you know, I had gotten used to and work towards a place where I really wanted to push the boundaries of content marketing. I wanted to use tools that were, would push the, company forward. They like to bring it to the next level.

Starting point is 00:32:34 Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, at least to, you know, be able to get information to, to improve it in some way. And, and to move things forward a little bit. And that was not happening at all. So. And there was then also no place for me to grow. So, you know, they had like a strange policy where it was. official that you couldn't really get a raise for an undetermined amount of time.

Starting point is 00:33:08 You know, it's just like, well, right now, there's not happening. And you're like, that's not much motivated. Yeah, that was it. You know, like, so this whole part of like great team culture and looking out for the employee, you know, like basically making sure that motivation is high. It, yeah, that was, that was not great. for me that was like an interesting challenge because I really liked the people that I was working with you know but I just saw that it was a total dead end career wise and so it was like really hard

Starting point is 00:33:47 I saw a lot of potential and that's sort of like my thing you know I get my teeth into something and then I want to I want to go go further I want to solve it I want to make it happen and so and But eventually it just, I hit a wall. And it was not good for me. It was not good for the people I was working with. And so eventually we just have parted ways. And after that, honestly, the job market is really difficult. I, you know, I decided like I wanted to, you know, continue along the path of being like in a good team and working.

Starting point is 00:34:29 on content marketing and on high level. And so I, you know, apparently my skills and experience sort of got me actually good interviews with like high level, with high level, interview partners like HubSpot and, I don't want to, I want to name too many names, but it was like there were good jobs. There were and people were impressed enough so that I would move to the last stage. of the interview, which was always, there was always several stages, at least four different, very long calls and then an assessment in between. So it must be very competitive, as you said, such a company.

Starting point is 00:35:17 It was quite competitive. So basically, you know, the feedback I got was like, well, it's amazing that you made it to the last round, you know. But the thing is that you can't really pay the bills. the last round and it's also you get emotionally invested you know at the beginning you're like this is this the right job for me but you know i'm going to start an interview process with these guys okay fine let's see how it goes i kind of like the job and then the more you get into the more you talk to them yeah um and then you get into assessments or like theoretically you're already working

Starting point is 00:35:53 uh with them that's the whole point of it right you're seeing like how well you interact with each other what's the communication like what are their challenges because they're they're giving you something to work on that's you know a typical challenge for them yeah and then so you're involved and then you're like you know you walk around you start seeing yourself sort of oh what's you know what's the sometimes i've been to the offices sometimes you know like it's actually even that like you know that happens and the job is in berlin you can go to the office and i saw the people there and i was like well i could see myself at that desk you know My future colleagues here and there.

Starting point is 00:36:31 Exactly, exactly. And so you get an idea of the vibe. And so, you know, it's never nice to get rejected in any way. But so, you know, everything just suddenly drops. And then you're like, okay, they've decided for somebody who's had like five minutes more experience in this or that topic. or who fits the profile more like la la la. You're never really sure what the reason is 100%. But effectively, the end result is you're, you know, part of that conversation anymore.

Starting point is 00:37:14 And so after a few months of that, like I just grew tired of it, you know. I really, I don't really know when it really started, but I, you know, you know, I'd seen LinkedIn as a place to, oh, I do remember, yeah, I do remember now. So LinkedIn for me was always a place just to update my CV, basically. Every time I was looking for a job, I would go and check out my profile and see that everything is to an order. And so whenever I would apply somewhere, they could see my profile and they'd be fine. And one company I was applying for, they asked for management of their LinkedIn profiles and their LinkedIn marketing. So effectively, like posting regularly and just making sure that everything is fine, which I know now what it is, right?

Starting point is 00:38:18 Back then, I was like researching it. I was Googling it. And that's when I started to discover that there is a whole creation. or ecosystem on LinkedIn. I didn't understand that. And I think a lot of people still don't know that. Like when I tell people what I do on LinkedIn, they're like, yeah, but why? Like, I didn't even know that existed and why are you doing that?

Starting point is 00:38:40 And, you know, and the point was I had to then create these profiles for these people. So I got into analyzing their profiles and understanding what makes a good profile. And during that course, I was like, well, I looked at my own profile and I was like, that doesn't make sense. I can't really apply to them and tell them to do this without actually, you know, turning out my profile as well. I started with that. And that's what everybody should start with, right? Like take a look at a profile, figure out how to update it, get in touch with me if you want some help with that. because it's it's quite quickly done effectively.

Starting point is 00:39:28 And it, but it set like something in motion, which for me was like, it was like a no-brainer somehow. It's something that slotted into place that I had suddenly had a creative outlet that was business-related. So, you know, all the things that I wasn't able to do or express in my normal jobs effectively because I was doing it for

Starting point is 00:39:58 them and not for me. I could now just voice in an area that's, you know, not nonsense. Like, where we're seen and heard. And so that's how it grew, basically. And was the company focused the primary on, LinkedIn or was it one of the channels? Oh, no. So that company, I mean, again, I don't, I didn't really, I didn't get the job.

Starting point is 00:40:30 But the company was actually focused on something completely different. So that's the interesting part, right? That's why I love content marketing as well. Because it's, it's, you know, I can apply to any company that, you know, is trying to inform and educate people or like get more leads or get more clients or, or anything like that. It doesn't really matter what the subject is. Or what the company is doing.

Starting point is 00:40:58 You'll be able to use content marketing principles in order to improve their business. And the same goes for LinkedIn effectively. So this company, it was like an accelerator, I think. They're called. So basically they have a lot of startups that they would identify. and then invest in.

Starting point is 00:41:22 And then they would sort of become part, like they would become part of this umbrella company. And so my job would have been to take care of each one of these startups and make sure that they're well set up in the LinkedIn. So it sounds like it gives you some good creativity to work for each different company, try different things. Exactly, yeah. So for me, that's the whole point. So my skill set is being able to use content marketing principles to use LinkedIn growth systems on any company requirement. So it doesn't matter whether you're in the recruitment business or whether you're doing licensing.

Starting point is 00:42:18 for brands or whatever it is. You know, like it can be selling solar panels effectively. You'll need a good system to get clients in. And LinkedIn is like a very, very good platform for that. And is that then basically what gives you an idea to focus more on LinkedIn by yourself and start your business there? Yeah. So it kind of came.

Starting point is 00:42:48 out of this amalgamation of me being fed up applying for jobs and understanding that there is demand for my skill. So that's why I decided, like, I'm going to try this out and you'll see, you know, what happens if I follow these principles that I understand about LinkedIn. And I grew very quickly within a few months to like several. thousands followers effectively. And this feedback was just really great. And I understood that, okay, people who are successful on LinkedIn do spend several

Starting point is 00:43:32 hours a day interacting with LinkedIn. And it's still for me that way that a lot of this time is creating posts and things, which is not ideal. Like I'm working towards really reducing. that time and I'm working towards creating content that's more aimed at my target audience rather than it always follows a strategy, right? But the strategy at first was growth. It's not the worst, but it just put me into a position where I'm now aiming at other LinkedIn creators or like people who are trying to grow on on LinkedIn and that's not really the people that you know I want to

Starting point is 00:44:22 sell to effectively my services are for um not for people who are trying to run LinkedIn growth businesses yeah there are for people who want to use people like me yeah and so that's a totally different target group effectively And these are interesting challenges that come when you start, though. And if I, you know, if I'd have any advice again, you know, there's a lot of things that I might have done differently if I knew what I know now. But one thing is for sure. Just starting and getting going is the best way to.

Starting point is 00:45:07 Yeah. To really learn. And to figure out like, okay, this is what I need to do. This is what I need to change now. And, you know, it can feel shit, honestly. It can feel like, you know, you're just completely overwhelmed. And it's a lot of work. But it's super rewarding at the same time because the community in LinkedIn is different

Starting point is 00:45:34 to other platforms or social media systems because it's very authentic. And it's very, you know, it's, It's a good community. So people are like real with each other. I would say even about putting each other down. It's like it's all about providing value. So I learned so much. It's unbelievable.

Starting point is 00:45:57 Like the first few months on LinkedIn, I was just reading, reading, reading, really, reading everything about AI, everything about AI in business, everything about AI sales.

Starting point is 00:46:08 You know, it's hard to avoid the, the whole AI topic. But I don't see. And you don't want to stay behind. Exactly. And that's what, you know, that's why I find it so incredible. So many, like few people use LinkedIn as a resource to learn.

Starting point is 00:46:30 And even less people actually post. So there's two lessons here. One is you can learn a lot by just being on LinkedIn and following people. that you are interested in. And the second is if you start creating and posting regularly on LinkedIn for a longer time, you're going to have success. You're going to see a lot more successful responses. You'll get into conversations with people who will become clients.

Starting point is 00:47:09 And you'll get a lot more sort of trial and error. than anywhere else, I believe. Yeah. I was about to say before that I also feel like that the community there is quite supportive, which is really nice. You can reach out to someone for some help, for some advice, and people feel more genuine than maybe on other platforms. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:32 That's how I see it as well. And it's also something that keeps me coming back, you know. Yeah, same. And would you be willing to share more about your strategy on LinkedIn, such as maybe what type of posts, when do you post, how to interact, some kind of guide for someone who wants to start? Yeah, sure. So a good idea is when you're starting off, you should post regularly.

Starting point is 00:48:01 So the consistency is the key here. Rather than daily, what I used to think was important, you don't need to start daily. although I mean if you want if you want to really get your hands dirty you can try that and you will have marginally more success effectively because LinkedIn will see that you're very active and so will your audience but it is hard work to create good content effectively so don't underestimate that right um so i for anyone starting off i would really focus on uh results that you have somewhere so if you you know any client results that you have that you can share um and starting off with like how

Starting point is 00:48:57 i did this you know is really great it's it's generally better than this is how you do this or that um because i mean that's you know i say that now uh this is from my experience. I started doing that. So I was like, I had all these like great ideas and hacks and things that little tricks that, that I was doing. And I thought like,

Starting point is 00:49:18 that's, you know, I'm just going to turn this into a post, you know. And, you know, again, it worked because,

Starting point is 00:49:27 um, I was doing it regularly. Um, I didn't have that much experience stuff to share. So, and I still struggle with that. side of things because most of my work sort of came from employment

Starting point is 00:49:43 or from, you know, ghost writing things that I can't really talk about. So, you know, if you have any numbers, you can share that. Then another idea of how to structure your plan for content would be to like figure out

Starting point is 00:50:05 some content pillars in advance. So really try to understand your audience and to figure out like just some categories that will be interesting for them. That's one level. The other level of content pillars is what works on LinkedIn. And that is sort of what I already mentioned is like a how to. You need to drop in a personal story every now and again. just talk about yourself don't be you know shy in general to post a photo of yourself or or record a video get used to that as soon as you can because that's sort of your person is what people are buying into

Starting point is 00:50:57 and it shows that you are human which you're not exactly right like if so apart from the fact that but LinkedIn doesn't like AI generated images on the post. It just hurts the reach of that post. It just, you know, in contrast, your face will get a lot more eyes on it. So just be okay with it. You know, like it's, it's not as crazy as you think. And if you're shy about it, you know, just see it as a challenge to overcome that part of you that might be a bit shy.

Starting point is 00:51:37 That's all fine. Everybody struggles with it. And another tip, I would say, is, you know, do some research into some followers that, some people that you like on LinkedIn and start following them. You know, ring a bell, you know, so that you get notified whenever they release content. And look for two things. Look for the people that have the same amount of followers as you, roughly, and more. So if they're just a little bit ahead of you, that's really good because two things will happen.

Starting point is 00:52:24 If they are in the same niche as you, if they are your competitors, and you comment on their stuff, they will probably comment on yours as well and all their followers will see that and vice versa. So that's like a really nice way of supporting each other. And also do the same with like larger followers effectively just because on the off chance, you know,

Starting point is 00:52:53 you'll get on the radar at some point, really. It's happened to me and I didn't really think about it. You know, it just you can... if someone with a large following, then comments on your content, his or her followers will see that too. And they will start commenting on your, so you get a lot of eyes on this. So that's a lot of like quick fire stuff right there.

Starting point is 00:53:24 But around like posting is, it's not as hard as, you might think, but it is an art. And it's something that, you know, you should start doing like more regularly just to understand which part of it you can automate as well using AI. There is a lot of ways to do that. But just. And do you want to share some inspiration or some profiles that you follow and you like?

Starting point is 00:53:58 Oh, so many. God. So let me just differentiate though. Like one really important thing to know is which I struggle with as well. It's like you should also identify your ideal customer persona profile person, whatever. And then make sure that you have a list of them ready. So you can search for them on LinkedIn. And that's a good tip.

Starting point is 00:54:28 search for those people on LinkedIn and then bookmark that search. And then you go into each one of those and comment on them as well so that you get onto the radar of your customers or your potential customers, right? What I said before is really for your growth on LinkedIn and to establish authority so that when these people come to your profile, they see, okay, this is an active person on LinkedIn and he has a lot of engagement or people take it seriously. And this is actually amazing tip with bookmarking. I think I saw it actually on your post and I started that as well.

Starting point is 00:55:14 And it really helps to sort out out of all the connections, those that you pick and you can engage with them. So it's great. It can recommend it as well. Yeah. They're called custom feeds. And it's, yeah, it's very, very useful. Right. So some creators follow.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Gosh, I have, so basically, maybe this as a little plug as well, I've, I use Notion to manage all my knowledge and content and to plan and to organize myself in general. And so this gotten so far that I decided to make a template for, for LinkedIn users, right? So anybody who's interested in completely organizing themselves and in Notion and is overwhelmed by what it might be able to do, they can sign up on my website, on my LinkedIn profile and be set on the wait list.

Starting point is 00:56:21 And then I'll let you know whenever it's ready. It'll take a little time. So it's like a great idea. like just to explain why I'm talking about this right now is that is how I also save creators and people on LinkedIn. So I have a whole section like that is like a CRM. And I just use like a little Chrome extension to drop profiles in there. Like it just adds them right there.

Starting point is 00:56:52 So then I have like the people that I'm interested in are all organized in Notion. And at the same time, I save any posts that I like in Notion as well. So I have an entire library in there of LinkedIn posts that are useful in some sort of way. And it's connected to this person in general. So then I can see my database of people. And I say, right, now I want to look at creators that are really good for LinkedIn profiles. So they either have like a really good profile or they have some sort of good resource on how to craft your profile. The same goes for posting or content design and this kind of thing.

Starting point is 00:57:41 And so off the top of my head, you know, I don't want to be too obvious about it. But I just want to like also shout out some people who've been really, really helpful to me because they've just been very, very authentic. and everybody gives back a little bit. So that's just something that's to think about too. If you're starting on LinkedIn, you will get help from people because they've gotten help from people. And that's how everybody uplifts each other really well. And that's so it's a no-brainer for me to mention Audrey Chia.

Starting point is 00:58:19 For example, she was like one of the first. She has an amazing content strategy on LinkedIn. and she talks about, you know, a lot of copyrighting and this kind of thing. Well, that's her business is copyrighting effectively. But, you know, AI supported. But at the same time, it's, you know, what she shares on LinkedIn is LinkedIn growth. And like how she, you know, deals with it and like how she was able to be successful. Then, God, there's so many.

Starting point is 00:58:54 There's like Heather Murray, for example, she's like, you know, the no-nonsense AI person. So, so very understandable, straightforward AI education, really great. Then there's, there's, there's Isabelle Bidoya is like spectacular. She is so good in explaining things and talking, you know, like the way I'm talking right now. It might be because Americans are just, extremely, you know, well-educated in rhetorical, you know, language. But, you know, every, every word she says hits. And that's, she's a great salesperson.

Starting point is 00:59:39 So AI in sales is Izzy. And then there's Matthew Lakiaev as well for sales processes. I would totally. I really if you, I really like Luke Shalom, for example as well. He's extremely good for understanding what a lead oriented and lead generative post is about. So, you know, even if you're not in the same sort of market interest, things. He talks a lot about like marketing in general. So, but just looking at his posts, you'll like really understand, uh, how a good

Starting point is 01:00:31 post is set up on the same is true for Nick Bruckima. I think that's how you pronounce. He's like his, his posts are just insanely well designed. Yeah. I don't, I've never seen anything that compares. even. So it's, yeah, he's really great. And my God, I mean, these are just like off the top of my head, some of the first people that, that I came across as well, who I, who I imagine I want to work with as well in the future maybe. Colin Gallagher, yeah. So Colin Gallagher is like a, he also offers like a LinkedIn growth system. That's all his business. But he's extremely good at it. So that's also something that you know.

Starting point is 01:01:22 Someone to study. Someone to study. Yep. And yeah, I don't want to go into it too much because I mean, it's my business too, you know. So if anybody needs help with growing on LinkedIn, you can also just always contact me and we'll have a chat about it. I'm always available. Yeah. I was about to say that this.

Starting point is 01:01:49 to be aware of time, you know, to slowly finish. If you want to promote your services, where can people follow you, get in touch with you? Sure, yeah. Unsurprisingly, I'm available on LinkedIn. My name is Robin Hanna. You'll find me there. And yeah, you can always send me a DM. We don't need to be connected.

Starting point is 01:02:12 I have an open profile. And I'm really happy to hear from you. I have a website, but it's not very active. I have an Instagram, but it's not very active. I've really channeled everything into LinkedIn, as have many others. So, yeah. And also subscribe to a newsletter, right? That's right.

Starting point is 01:02:35 Like on my profile, you'll be able to subscribe to my newsletter and sign up to my notion wait list. If that's something you're interested in. Yeah, it will be out in probably in a couple of months. So it's already advanced, but I'll be spending June in Portugal. Oh, we will have big expectations. Yeah, yeah. I hope you do.

Starting point is 01:03:00 Keep me on my toes. Yeah. I hope I can deliver. That's the aim. Cool. Then, Robin, I think we can finish for today. It was a pleasure to meet you. We'll be happy to catch up again anytime in the future.

Starting point is 01:03:14 And we'll stay in touch with you on LinkedIn. Awesome. Cheers very much. Thank you for having me too. Thank you for listening. If we enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback, or share any ideas for future guests.

Starting point is 01:03:32 Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - Content Marketing Unleashed: Going Beyond LinkedIn | #60: Robin Hanna

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