Produced By - Cracking the Meme Code: Certified “Memeologist” Backed by Gary Vee | #SPECIAL: Jonah Blackburn

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hello and welcome to Produced Buy. Just quickly before we begin, if we enjoy the show, please consider supporting it by joining our Patreon. You can choose from a list of memberships and we'll receive some exciting rewards. Thank you and back to the episode. Hello, Janach. Thank you for Janeh today and welcome to the show.

Starting point is 00:00:22 Thank you so much for having me. I'm really good forward to having this chat. So, Jennifer, can you please introduce yourself? Hey, for sure. My name is Jona and I am the co-founder of lucid meme. We basically make memes for businesses that are trying to attract a younger audience. You know, I used to work in marketing, you know, in various different capacities. I worked at the Smiley Company where they own the IP of the Smiley Face. I worked at a digital weather

Starting point is 00:00:49 company. I've worked at Itoro. I've worked at like various level of, you know, corporate and non-corporate kind of companies. And when me and my business partner, you know, founded this, we basically saw the revelation of the power of memes, you know, and like, like really how, you know, loads of companies, you know, were struggling and how to communicate kind of with Gen Z and other, the younger generations, you know, that just makes sense, you know, to communicate kind of using memes. So, yeah, that's, that's my story. Sounds like an amazing, innovative idea. So can you maybe tell us how it started, how did you get the idea? Yeah, absolutely. So actually, was my business partner, you know, who first kind of came up with the idea. So he used to work

Starting point is 00:01:35 for a company called 10,000 black interns. You know, he's basically placing people of color within, I think it was 28 different sectors, you know, all different kind of companies. And that was super interesting. And for that, he managed a hundred thousand pound kind of campaign. And he made, I think it was, I think it was 15 year more traditional creatives and it was 10 memes. And very quickly he saw the means were massively outperforming the other creators. But he sent me the data, because I'm more of a data guy, you know, and very quickly I had a look at it, you know, and knew that, I mean, really, it was exactly where we wanted to be because, I mean, you know, when looking at the mean marketing sphere, there are some agencies, you know, that have tried to do it, you know,

Starting point is 00:02:13 but I feel as though, you know, they're not living up to the full potential because it can be, you know, and I think, you know, it often is, saying someone who's 40 trying to market someone who's 25. Yeah. Yeah. And that creates their own kind of blend of their own perception of that shared experience, which is going to be so kind of mismatched that it's going to be relatable to nobody. You know, so we realize, you know, why not be the ones that really dominate this space and understand the market? Because, you know, it's by Gen Z for Gen Z. And like, you know, tagline we use. Because, you know, we are kind of who we're marketing to and, you know, who else to be creating. Yeah, exactly. This kind of content, you know, especially with the

Starting point is 00:02:47 buying power of Gen Z is just getting more and more and more and they're getting into more and they're controlling way more money. So, you know, yeah, the very interesting space. And it's been very interesting to see how it's evolved and brands are getting on board with me, and you know working with you know every different vertical in industry because that's also something that's you know so interesting about about kind of me marketing is you know nobody is really above it you know me marketing will have to be within you know everyone's marketing mix you know as they attempt to communicate with gen z yeah of course and it sounds really exciting that you actually have a lot of fun creating content and crafting strategies and campaigns and everything

Starting point is 00:03:24 100%. I think that it's such an exciting place to be and it's we are really defy what corporate is all about in terms of our own morale but we also have vast experience from the corporate background so we really are in a good version to blend the corporate world and social world which I think many, many brands are struggling to do is find that kind of balance between fun social content but also dealing with the rigidity brand guidelines and I think that kind of middle ground is something that we kind of

Starting point is 00:03:58 tone the line to and is really I think the biggest challenge yeah yeah yeah that sounds really cool and so when did you guys get the idea you know how did you start in the beginning how did you start looking for the clients or you know you got the idea but what were your first steps afterwards well actually it was super interesting because, you know, we had a client that was a law marketing agency, but in the same time, we also got investment for Gary Vee, which was, you know, super interesting. Yeah, that's something I also want to discuss later. That sounds really excited. Yeah, so basically, you know, when my business partner was working at this company, 10,000 black interns, he placed

Starting point is 00:04:40 some interns at Vayna Media. And so the MD and him got, you know, friendly, which was, you know, very nice and they set us up a meeting which was you know it was Gary Wee himself yes yeah because you know maybe for someone doesn't know can you briefly introduce Gary Wee yeah for sure I mean you know he's one of the biggest social entrepreneurs you know that I know of you know I think you know his his ability to you know predict you know consumer shifts and behavior is really unlike anyone I've ever spoken to you know he has a very unique ability to really understand what the next generation is going to be interested in and what the shifts in digital, you know,

Starting point is 00:05:21 landscape is going to look like and why. You know, and I think it was really nice to have kind of validation, you know, it's such an early stage from someone who understands that, that kind landscape better than anybody, you know, and he agreed that, you know, that is exactly where this kind of landscape is going and using memes, you know, as a content tool. I mean, really is where all brands are heading, which is really, really cool. Yeah. Just, a bit of context that Gary B, I think he's written several bestseller books. He's got huge followings on social media, probably multimillionaire. I don't know what else to say.

Starting point is 00:05:58 So that's why I was so impressed that he invested in your company. It's really cool. 100%. 100%. No, I think it was and it was so inspiring to be able to talk to him and get kind of his take on the landscape. So yeah, I mean, you know, it was an absolute. It was an absolute achievement and I absolutely feel so happy that, you know, yeah, that we got that kind of validation from, you know, behemoth themselves, you know, to say, you

Starting point is 00:06:26 know, yes, this is exactly where the market's going. It just, you know, it made us feel even stronger in our mission. And does this help you, for example, with the advertising of your own services or even when looking for the clients when you say that the company got the investment from Gary Wee? Yeah, I mean, for sure, it's something that, you know, it helps streamline a conversation in some, in some certain circumstances. But I think, you know, really people are interested in what, in what we're about, you know, and there aren't very many people that, you know, even, you know, cross bridges with what, with kind of what we do. So I think that's the instant hook, you know, is the meme marketing, so I'm a third memeologist. You know, I think this, these kind of terms, you know, are new to some people, but I think, you know, very soon it won't be.

Starting point is 00:07:16 And I think that's what is bringing people in. Yeah. So when it comes to marketing itself, can you maybe say a bit more about it? Is it like crafting campaigns or doing the strategies or social media? Absolutely. So we have you have various ways we work with people. You know, so we like to, you know, first of somebody see, you know, to see values. You know, so we have different packages, you know, so we have, you know, some that are purely mean creation packages.

Starting point is 00:07:46 know, where, you know, we can do your distribution and we'll make you, you know, X amount of memes for a certain price and we will basically come up with a calendar that will say, you know, when it should be posted. Because, I mean, really, I think that's something that is super important, you know, is how will memes look kind of in the aesthetic of the Instagram and it's about knowing, you know, when to post and how to post around the other content? Because, I mean, me marketing shouldn't be like some isolated campaign, right? Like, really, it has to be a complementing campaign and they have to be working towards the same goal. You know, I think, you know, choosing me marketing kind of in and around the other content. I think, you know, slotting it in is one of the hardest bits. And I think, you know, having to do that that is very thought-driven, you know, understanding, you know, where it can work and why it should be posted there. I think everything has to have a reason behind it.

Starting point is 00:08:30 And can we maybe discuss a bit more detail, how would you work with a client who approaches you? Because I can imagine that it's different, as you said before, that you worked with the client from the law industry. So you craft the memes so it fits their target audience, right? So do you do like some kind of research and then do? Yes. There is a lot of, yeah, so there's a lot of background research that will go into it. You know, I think, you know, understanding the kind of sub forums, you know, the Reddit, you know, that, I think that kind of content as well is super important to understanding a narrative. But I think, you know, there is a lot that can be said, you know, we have to obviously, you know, talk to the client, you know, and we have a list of, you know, quite a lot of, you know,

Starting point is 00:09:14 a lot of questions that we will ask that we'll really get inside of the business objectives, some marketing goals and what the company really needs and wants and, you know, what's important to them and what kind of tonality is important to them. Because I guess very easy for us to come in and say, you know, you should be talking about this and in this tonality, but it may not be, you know, that, you know, kind of within their brand guidelines, for example, right? You know, so we need to merge what, what kind of we know will work with what they're comfortable with.

Starting point is 00:09:41 And that's why I say, you know, it's about kind of towing this line. knowing where to walk so it's not being offensive it's not breaking any boundaries but it's also are going to be funny and engaging at the end of the day because that's what i mean really makes a good meme you know there's so many things that like really go into a meme and can we actually you know have this meme guide that we're going to be publishing that is going to go through you know some example meme types and you know what kind of different ways there are to create a meme and all the different components that are really going into a meme you know and i think that that is such an important thing for people to know that it's not just picking some random image and putting some

Starting point is 00:10:17 text it's actually there is so much more and so much you know so many different layers that will go into it yeah I think that was my initial reaction as well before I thought about it more than it's just you know showing out funny memes but now you can see that there is much more work behind it and it actually needs to be tailored to specific needs and so can you compare it maybe to crafting strategies when it comes to regular marketing. For sure. So I think, you know, what kind of really singles us out, you know, I think is two things. I think, you know, we're the most reactive people that exist.

Starting point is 00:10:57 And I think, you know, reactive marketing is really what it's all about actually to the post about it today. Because I think, you know, reactive marketing, you know, is really the marketing of now. You know, when there's news coming out, you know, we all are informed on our iPhones and, you know, there's kind of new breaking news every two. minutes. Not being agile really to me is a death sentence. You know, I don't understand how you can try and navigate kind of brand marketing without being okay to be agile and not having 15 realms of approvals. I understand, you know, some things need to be run past

Starting point is 00:11:29 legal, for example. I get it. I'm not. I'm not kind of living in this kind of simplistic world where I think, you know, things should just be able to say, okay, do anything. But I think, you know, you're not, you're not truly utilizing the people that are making the decisions. You know, I think like, like for example, a social media manager, you know, really needs to be able to hold more power, you know, to be able to very quickly approve things that they think it's going to work because, I mean, you can only have, you know, half an hour, for example, you know, before you miss a trend. And if you're late to the trend, then there's no point of posting because, you know, you look dull and you actually, you know, really create the opposite effect. You know, I think it's very clear who's late to the party and who's on it. And I think, you know, the people that are, you know, the most reactive that that is that is how you really kind of crack. the engagement and you can go viral very quickly by just you know mastering being being first of the line right yeah it actually reminds me just a few days ago when we are recording this when i went on lincoln and i think i saw post shared by two by you uh that facebook and instagram were down and before i knew i saw your post first so that's a great example of

Starting point is 00:12:36 being quick and staying up to date with the stuff and reacting on time exactly right You know, and that's exactly it. You know, I think, you know, that is the, that is the perfect example, right? And I think, you know, having the ability to see something very quickly, you know, say to a graphic designer, you know, say to social media manager, you know, hey, I need this. And, you know, that kind of being posted, you know, very quickly without having to go through sales, marketing, legal, the CEOs, you know, 10 other people, I'm sure. It just doesn't make sense to work like that. And I think, you know, you have to be okay with being a little bit flexible. And I always say, you know, well, there's two things I say that I believe very important.

Starting point is 00:13:16 You know, one is, you know, no meme is better than a bad meme because I think a bad meme can stick out like a sore thumb, you know, but I also think, you know, that if the worst comes to the worst, and this is what I say to brands, if they have a post that doesn't really go well, not that many people are going to see it, right? Because if loads of people saw it, then that would be a good post. You know, and I always say, you know, it's not the end of the world. And I think it's really about kind of learning and optimizing and tweaking strategy is how we you, you know, perfect this game.

Starting point is 00:13:43 I don't think it's a one-stop shop. I don't think it's a one-day process. I think it isn't ever-revolving processes. You're keeping up with trends. You're keeping up, you know, with language, syntax, you know, just what's going on in the world. I think, as you mentioned, that a bad meme, because I'm curious, like, what's the kind of border or the limit?

Starting point is 00:14:05 Because sometimes it's a bad meme, but if it's cringe, then the cringe kind of makes it funny. So I feel like this is kind of difficult to say whether it's bad or... A hundred percent. I think it's really situational context. You know, I think it's about kind of understanding, you know, and that's why I think, you know, there is so much research that is going into it. You know, it's about kind of understanding, you know, where the line is, you know,

Starting point is 00:14:33 for each, you know, topic and subtopic you're talking about, you know, what is being said, you know, what is being accepted, you know, what is genuinely being talked about. I think that's where the research comes in and that's why you know I think to some people you know it may be a minor tweak but I mean we know how kind of effective you know one can be over the other and what some very minor change can be a massive change in perception. If you want to boost your online presents check out our digital marketing agency called trailblazed. You can also add in a skill share course called the 10 tips on how to succeed in your creative career,

Starting point is 00:15:11 which was inspired by the podcast. Lastly, make sure to subscribe to our weekly newsletter, called Creative Spotlight, to stay up to date with the show and more. Links are in the show notes. Thanks. And what about when it comes to boundaries? Do you discuss with the companies maybe how much is too much? Because some jokes may be inappropriate or not the company?

Starting point is 00:15:38 100%. And that's why, you know, when we have this kind of discovery call, you know, we ask them a whole load of questions about, about, you know, where, you know, they think their lines at. You know, and sometimes, you know, we suggest things that are a bit further if we think that it's, it's very, very conservative. Maybe then the day it's kind of ultimately up to them. But I think, you know, yes, absolutely, you know, you have to take into account, you know, what the brand wants. Because at the end of the day, you know, they're the ones that are ultimately responsible for what happens, you know. So yes, it's very, very, very impacted by what happens in that call. And there's a whole list of questions that we've crafted over time that are like,

Starting point is 00:16:15 like really enable us to encapsulate, you know, the business and the strategy that is going on and what the true needs are. Yeah. And when there is such a client, what does the person that reaches out to look like? Is it like someone in their 20s, 30s or is it even people who are maybe in 50s, 60s because they don't understand the audience? That's a very good question. And we get, you know, every walks of life is the truth. You know, we have had people, you know, who are very, you know, engaged social media managers that just, you know, want to outsource this bit. You know, we've had some big companies that are kind of older CMOs and, you know, all the CEOs that are very interested that don't really understand the landscape and, you know, everybody in between. Because I think, you know, why not hire somebody who can do it better? Hmm. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:03 Especially someone who's got the experience like you guys. Exactly. You know, we are the specialized guys. You know, we have, you know, thanked on, you know, us being amazing at this and I, you know, have we got some amazing results? You know, we increase, you know, a certain page's engagement rate by like that kind of 800%. You know, I think, you know, results like that, you know, are truly because of the content. And is it just two of you guys in the company? Yes, you know, we have some, you know, contractors and some interns, etc.

Starting point is 00:17:32 but you know it is the two of us who are who are like spearheading this business forward and what have you got a target market is it like the the UK or the whole world or is it a specific that's that's very that's that's very interesting you know the only you know industry that we are not trying to target first is more than luxury end because I believe that you know they they they are indeed the kind of belief that they don't need these kind of service even though I'm in the belief that they're the ones that really can benefit the most like like for example Gucci did a massive campaign in 2018 that went amazingly and if someone like you know Gucci can do it then like really wise and everybody I've got to me you know human related the campaign that was done by Gucci in 2018 that was and it was you know really good and it got really good traction so I don't understand why it's not that kind of you know mainstream content there you know especially you know with the rise of young founders you know and their kind of target demographics you know and their kind of target demographics. is I'm sure shifted towards a younger audience, you know, that it really is anybody that is

Starting point is 00:18:39 trying to attract a younger audience. And I think, you know, that is kind of half the, you know, half a curse and half a blessing because, you know, there is so many people and so many brands and so many agencies to contact. But at the same time, you know, it's, it's almost overwhelming because there's such a wide target demographic. You know, I think, you know, it really is, it's brands who are forward thinking, you know, is what, you know, are kind of ethos is. You know, I think it's brands who, you know, look at themselves as having a fun-loving DNA. You know, I think we find that a lot in the crypto space, in the food and beverage space,

Starting point is 00:19:09 hospitality space, for example. Those are just a few. You know, there are so many more that I like that, you know, various other industries. Yeah. Because my next question was whether or how much is there of competition? Because from my perspective, I think I haven't seen the company focusing only on memes like you do.

Starting point is 00:19:31 So I'm not aware of any. So are there competitors who do? Well, I mean, as far as I know, you know, we're the UK's first, first me marketing agency. I haven't seen any other ones. I haven't seen it. I think, yeah. Yeah, but I think, you know, it doesn't really make sense that there haven't been yet.

Starting point is 00:19:48 You know, to me, it was, I mean, it was a real gap in the market to us because it was like, wow, you know, how is this not a thing yet with how popular memes are already. And I think memes are only growing and growing to only make sense that, that you know this kind of niche space you know will become a mainstream space it just you know nobody's realized that yeah that's how i felt when i saw it was like how come no one came with this idea before or how come i haven't seen more of these 100% yeah and since then since you guys started have you seen that maybe others try to copy such a concept or copy you know the idea i mean not that i've seen so far i mean of course you know there are some

Starting point is 00:20:32 agencies you know as I've said that you know do make memes and there are brands that you know more and more brands are doing memes every day but I don't you know see it as copying the idea you know I just think you know we were at the first of the punch and I don't I don't believe the will be the only ones in this space forever I think that would be a very naive you know yeah and that kind of way of looking at it right you know I think you know it is such a profitable kind of area this whole you know social media in general right you know and I think the Like, when you have such a powerful content, of course, it only makes sense to go into that space.

Starting point is 00:21:08 And so I think, you know, yes, we're here for now, but, you know, I'm sure it won't be long until more people are here. But I think there will be, you know, for sure having the best understanding of how this game works. And I don't think anybody really can match us. Yeah, yeah, of course. So when it comes to this, have you actually got any companies or creators that are? Well, you know, I don't actually do the contents, you know. I mean, the content side goes to my business partner, as I said, you know, he's the creative side. You know, he is, you know, the kind of creative God that, you know, has all the inspiration.

Starting point is 00:21:40 You know, he's, he's a true, he's a true creative as I am a very analytical guy. And that's, that's kind of my side of the business. Okay. But, but still, you are, since you are immersed in this, you must have some knowledge. Is there someone you like to follow for? Yeah, I think, you know, I've got, I've got thousands. I've got thousands of pages that I follow. that you know, I find hilarious.

Starting point is 00:22:03 You know, I think, you know, it's about, you know, what I resonate with in the day. But I also think, I'm being honest, I mean, that's not how I use social and that's a big thing I'm preaching as well. You know, I think, you know, I think the kind of nobody uses social by, you know, seeing content that their followers produce. I think now, you know, when you go on Instagram, you very rarely interact with any content that is from your followers. You interact with content that the algorithm is suggesting to you. You know, I think that, you know, normally it's right that you're going to like that piece. of content and then you end up doom scrolling. I mean, that's the whole point of doom scrolling. You know, so I think like, yes, there are loads of pages that I find funny, but I think,

Starting point is 00:22:38 you know, the best content really comes, you know, from pages that I randomly find that are via the algorithm. Just trust the power of TikTok's algorithm. They know the best. 100%. You know, TikTok, Instagram, you know, I will leave it up to their hands, you know, because, you know, based off, you know, who I like, right, so they're going to get better and better. And when it comes to type of content, Do you basically create anything from images to video, scurrosis, infographics or what type of do you do? I mean, you know, we can do anything, you know, we can do the kind of more traditional

Starting point is 00:23:13 social content as well, but you know, when talking about means specifically, you know, we can do, you know, static, you know, you know, we can do, you know, short kind of real content, for example, you know, we can do video content as well. I think it works very well, but you know, I mean, in terms of our social ability, like social media capabilities as a whole, you know, we can do the whole range of content types. Yeah. And when it comes to specific social media channels, again, you can tailor it to anything. Absolutely. We can do, you know, LinkedIn, we can do Twitter. We can do, you know, Instagram basically, you know, really everything. You know, I think, you know, there are platforms, you know, where I think it works best. But I think that we can do across, like a cross posting platform and, you know, tweak, you know, based on the strategy, you know, it's for sure it's something that we can do as well.

Starting point is 00:23:59 So can you maybe point out a few social media channels that work the best or I guess it probably depends on the client but if there are some It massively depends but I would say you know for me you know LinkedIn's a really good one because I think you know there is such drab content that is posted And such gray content that I think you know a meme is such a standout piece that when you see something that you know maybe you've seen before that you've laughed that before you're definitely more inclined to stop and it's, you know, you'll get like feel of instant connection to that kind of name and I think it breaks through the noise a lot easier. Would you even say that it's better or more powerful than Instagram? I would say in some cases it can be. I think, but I think you know really you know that best use when they're cross-platform and you are able to kind of, you

Starting point is 00:24:53 know, harness the joint effort of all of them. So because on LinkedIn there are usually more of the companies or I guess you work more with the companies but do you also work let's say with specific maybe influencers or some famous people to help them you know with them we've not done that kind of as of yet I mean it's something we'd be open to do but I think you know we want to try and make our name in in the brand marketing in the agency marketing but of course that is something that we would definitely do if the opportunity arose is just not something there's been number one on the priority list right now but I definitely think that that is an interesting space for sure and are there

Starting point is 00:25:34 than any clients that you can or you want to mention that you worked with them yeah you know we've had a few interesting clients you know we've had kind of a head and they're kind of the the kind of the duolingo the EQ and they were a super interesting at you know the you know the language they would they were duolingo four kind of EQ so they were you know the people that were championing emotional intelligence and they had a whole app that was that was trying to get people to kind of deal with their emotional intelligence and become more emotionally aware and that was a super interesting one you got some very good kind of like like paid impressions for them

Starting point is 00:26:12 which was yeah like very interesting for sure you know we had strike and that was a non-alcoholic drinks brand that was also very interesting you know to be in that kind of space you don't understand you know the kind of context you know of the food and beverage industry that is really in my mind you know one of the fastest changing industries there is yeah the duolingo one is actually great example because following them on social media for example LinkedIn if you consider that it's a language app a really big one I think their marketing and even memes they post it's it's amazing I don't know if you follow them 100% no

Starting point is 00:26:57 100% I definitely agree I think they are so funny they're able to you know they've gone completely the other side of the line and just don't really have a line now and I mean and they're willing to post whatever they want you know and I think they they know that their audience finds it fun you know they know the persona of their audience so well it just makes sense you know yeah they are they are smith I think it was with a Super Bowl commercial if someone was interested they can Google it but that's one day's really smithed When it comes to, I know you said your friend is the one who's actually creating content,

Starting point is 00:27:33 but I'm curious when he's creating content, does it come from his mind or does he look for it online or kind of both? Or what is it like? I mean, for sure, I think he's taking inspiration on trend patterns from online. I think, you know, that is, you know, of course, the only way to understand what is going on, you know, to see what's being posted and what's being said. He is one of the most creative people I know. He's able to, you know, master his creativity and, you know, come up with, you know, new ways, you know, displaying marketing messages, you know, in a very subliminal way because it's all

Starting point is 00:28:07 very kind of psychological. You know, nobody kind of actively knows that kind of reading the marketing message. You get to kind of absorb into the subconscious. So I think, you know, yes, it's kind of a bit of both is what I'd say. Would be curious. What does he do when he wrong? I don't think he runs out of ideas. His creative juices are always flying.

Starting point is 00:28:28 And I know you focus on the other side of the business, but you weren't interested in being a creative one? Yeah, well, I think it's, you know, I think, you know, we have a merge and we're very kind of ying and yang, so we're very good at different things. And, you know, we've both come from, you know, marketing backgrounds in very different areas. So I think, you know, I trust him for that social side.

Starting point is 00:28:47 And, you know, I, of course, you know, I'm involved in, you know, some of the ideation, you know, process. but I think that you know we should master what we're good at I always say you know let's let's let's play for our skills and not our weaknesses you know and I know that you know we are both you know very much doing things that are playing to our strengths and we're you know combining both our skills to create a very unstoppable team so yeah so can you tell us more about your work for example what is your regular day at work look like? What is it that you take care of?

Starting point is 00:29:25 Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think as a founder, it changes every day. I think you have to be able to be agile and, you know, do things to, you know, to come up at the very last second. You know, my job, you know, is sales, business development is the main thing. You know, I'm trying to find, you know, new people and network and find partnership opportunities, reaching out to brands, reaching out to agencies, reaching out to freelancers, you know, reaching out to, you know, solo entrepreneurs, et cetera. You know, I think, you know, that kind of networking game is something that I don't really think of as work because I love talking to people. I love, you know, making connections. I love, you know, hearing people's stories and I love saying

Starting point is 00:29:59 my own story. You know, and I think, you know, I mean, that to me just made absolute sense, you know, but then I can find myself doing, you know, I do all the accounts and I make sure they're well up to date, you know, I'm dealing with contracts. I'm dealing with a lot of the automation, you know, so I am the one that will try and, you know, streamline our processes by using AI and project management tools, etc. You know, I think that's so important is to be, you know, keeping up and, you know, trying to make tasks that shouldn't be, you know, time consuming, you know, trying to streamline how much time you have and really kind of organizing where you're spending time and spend

Starting point is 00:30:33 time, you know, where it needs to happen most. Yeah. And when it comes to clients, can you say maybe what's the ratio of people that reach out to you, compared to people that you need to reach out to for work? I think, I think, you know, it's changed over the course. You know, I think, yeah, you know, I don't think, oh, it would be fair for me to give a number. I think it, you know, it can change, it can change a lot depending on the week, depending on what kind of, you know, promotion or, you know, what kind of content we put out. So I think, yeah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't really put a number on it, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:31:04 Yeah, yeah. And do you guys have, like, long-term partnerships and relationships or like just short-term strategies? No, absolutely. You know, really to me, you know, it's the long-term partners that are the most important. You know, I'm in this game, you know, to build, you know, relationships with people and, you know, but they see the value and kind of what we're doing and we, you know, have the feel of being like an internal, external agency. You know, that to me is really important, you know, so we have that kind of, you know, that kind of rapport with the client, you know, to give our honest feedback, you know, to say, you know, if we think that somebody's being a bit too safe or, you know, like maybe someone's being a bit kind of over the line, etc.

Starting point is 00:31:41 you know, we can kind of, you know, give our guidance and give our advice in a much more, you know, conducive way and where they, like basically they trust us, you know, that's what's really important to me. Yeah, yeah. So tell us what are your plans with our company for the future. That's very interesting. You know, really what I want to do is carry on proving value and, you know, really trying to build the case studies and, you know, get a really good, you know, client roster because I think, you know, once we have, you know, some big names in several industries, you know, it just becomes like a domino effect because I think it really is, you know, who's first to the party. It's just about convincing, you know, the big players that, you know,

Starting point is 00:32:18 they should be first, you know, and saying it only makes sense, you know, to make that jump. You know, so I guess, you know, we're just going to carry on doing that. You know, we have a very interesting service of white labelling for agencies. So I also think, you know, we're going to carry on doing that. And really just, just trying to grow the brand and grow, you know, our amazing clientele, basically. Yeah. And have you got a maybe a dream call? or a dream company that you would want to work with? I mean, I'd love to work with a company, you know, for example, Lyme, you know, I'd love to work with, I'd love to work with TFL. You know, I think, you know, there is a whole host of companies.

Starting point is 00:32:52 I'd like, you know, absolutely love to work with, you know, kind of Oatley, for example. You know, I think there's so many that you have so much potential, you know, but I think, you know, the list is really kind of endless for me. I think I could be here for a year trying to say, you know, the brands that should be taking advantage of me in marketing. Yeah. And from your past projects, can you tell us more details about some of the projects or campaigns or, you know, something you worked on that is worth mentioning, maybe cool, interesting or something that you enjoyed working on? Yeah, you know, I think, you know, as I mentioned already, but I think it's definitely worth kind of mentioning again, you know, the biggest thing, you know, that I can show people some tangible data, you know, is that we were able to, I think in six weeks we were able to, you know, increase. engagement by 800% on the you know on the account postings and I think you know that coming in in six weeks you know with with no ad spend I think you know

Starting point is 00:33:49 just imagine what really can be done you know you know over a longer period of time and even with that spend I just think you know the opportunities are limitless so tell us some secrets tell us the magic you know something that people can apply I don't think I can do that man I'm so sorry to say, I'd love to, you know, we have a few things on our website, you know, people can check out, which is lucid.meme. But yeah, yeah, I mean, I definitely cannot spill the secret source. You have to come and call me.

Starting point is 00:34:20 Yeah, I'm private for that. But still, can you share some advice from, you know, when it comes to. Yeah, you know, I think that like, like, I mean, the overarching theme is, you know, to be kind of agile and not be rigid and to stay up to date, you know, with the current trend. I think, you know, that, that is, you know, that is, you know, a big point, you know, and I think, you know, you need to have brands that are, have streamlined approval processes. I think if you have, you know, massive red tape and barriers to entry, then you're not going to do well.

Starting point is 00:34:50 And I also think, you know, this is another thing that we preach is, you know, if you feel completely safe about a post and you feel as though it's completely okay, 100%. Nine times out of 10, that post is not great. You know, I think you have to be a bit kind of on the edge about a post because those are the posts that normally do the best. It's never the post that you're like, oh, you know, this is, you know, I said some, some data or statistics or whatever, and this post is just, you know, data driven and nobody will get offended and, you know, it's all good. That post is never going to do great. But I think it's the post that's just kind of teetering on the edge of, you know, what, yeah, is okay and what's not. You know, I think that's where that is where the magic lies, you know, without being offensive but still being funny. Yeah, yeah. And also, as we discussed briefly, LinkedIn before, and it's.

Starting point is 00:35:37 important. What are some advice when it comes to LinkedIn or tips from your experience? I think that you know you need to have consistency and that that is really important for me you know especially on LinkedIn I think you know building consistency is key and I think you know the algorithm is very friendly to you once that that consistency is mastered and I also think you know in the meme game you know specifically it's it's really a momentum game and they build on each other and people come back to you time and time again and engage with your content time and time again because they've seen your content previously at the same time and it becomes kind of this kind of habitual clock.

Starting point is 00:36:11 And I've also noticed that you've got a batch. Do you want to tell us more about your, I think it's interpersonal skills badge? Yeah, you know, I mean, I just, you know, I love trying to contribute, you know, and I love, you know, the art. And you know, I think it's so important you know, to learn from each other, you know, and I've learned so much from these LinkedIn articles and I thought was only give back, you know, I thought I was only right, you know, to give kind my opinion and my voice, you know, I thought that, you know, my way of dealing with people, I think is very unique. You know, I think when you have conversations with people, I don't think it should, like, necessarily be for a specific reason. And like, and like my whole vibe on hypothesis is,

Starting point is 00:36:52 you know, let's just meet with as many people as possible because you never know what can come out of a conversation. You never know, you know, you can help in the future or someone may be able to help you. And I just think, you know, you never know what can happen. So why not try and, you know, be friendly and speak to everybody and hear everyone's stories and try and you know like try and offer guidance you know wherever you can yeah that sounds great and I can completely agree and when it comes to batch itself do you feel like that it helps you when it comes to LinkedIn such as build trustworthiness or something isn't I think I think if you're relying on a badge to to really differentiate if someone's if someone's good or not I don't

Starting point is 00:37:31 necessarily know how well your opinions are. I think, you know, I think it definitely helps to add some level of credibility, but I think, you know, people come to my profile because of my post and because of the brand that I'm trying to build around, you know, and the fun, you know, and engaging content that I try and produce that is genuinely just, you know, my thoughts and my, my hypotheses and my, like, missions and experiences, but also asking people for help and, you know, trying to utilize the network. At the same time, you know, you know, I think I've built such a great network with such a diverse group of people, you know, why not try and ask the help here and that? And it's a big thing I preach. You'll never be too proud or too scared to ask

Starting point is 00:38:07 for help from anybody because I think, you know, people do like to help, you know, once they're asked. I just think people are scared to ask. It doesn't make sense to me. No, it's a good point. And as we will be approaching the end, do you want to promote your company, yourself, where people can follow? Yeah, absolutely. You know, please contact me on LinkedIn, you know, Jonah Blackburn, certified pneumologist. You can go to our website, which is lucid.meme. It's a brand new domain type, so you don't need anything else. You know, or you can type in lucid meme.

Starting point is 00:38:38 Or code at UK, you know, it's up to you. And yeah, please feel free to reach out. You know, we're kind of always happy to have a call. And out of curiosity, why is it called lucid? It's just adjective for a meme or what does it mean? Yeah, well, it stems from lucid dream. You know, and I think, you know, that kind of idea being, you can control. That sounds good. I like it. It's cool. So is there to finish? Is there something

Starting point is 00:39:04 that you want to share or I forgot to ask or you know, you've got a space to say so? No, I think it's good with me. Thank you so much for, you know, having me on the show. You know, I've super, super enjoyed this. I think it's been a super engaging conversation. Thank you, general. It was my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for listening. If we enjoy the show, please leave us a five-star review on your favorite podcast app, get in touch to provide your feedback, or share any ideas for future guests. Thank you and see you soon.

Produced By - Cracking the Meme Code: Certified “Memeologist” Backed by Gary Vee | #SPECIAL: Jonah Blackburn

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